Aston Villa v Everton Post-Match Thread

[DB]

Its going to take time and alot of it to get this bunch out of the losing mentality that they've been stuck in for well over a year, we go a goal down and its game over because their heads drop, Lambert is most definately the man to take us forward but theres going to be a few of these types of pastings along the way..... I remember Everton going through a transition not long after Moyes arriving and getting trounced 0-4 at home to Bolton, we are now were they were back then. Its going to take alot of patience but to many of our supporters expect instant results.

Not me. I expect us to get relegated.

It's a long season...

[eric woolban woolban]

I can just imagine the manager sitting in a darkened room tonight and thinking "What the hell can I do"

Or thinking "Why the hell did I say yes?"

[SoccerHQ]

I tend to agree. But it is yet again a case o sticking 5 of them in he same side. Remember under dol, Cahill, ridgewell and Davis often struggled yet all ended up making it. I don't think bannan, herd and fonz are likely to make it. But I also don't think we're giving weimann, Clark, baker the best of chances at the moment

That's a good point actually.

In fairness, 90% on here knew selling Cahill was a monumental mistake, he just had "it" as a centre half but was still learning the game. Centre half has been a problem area ever since Laursen couldn't play anymore save for a freak year in 09/10.

Davis has started off brightly at Saints and Ridgewell has matured into a solid enough premier league left back, first at SHA and continuing at WBA.

Ridgewell certainly divided opinion when he first came through playing central defence, Clark will probably do the same this season, I'd say defence is probably the area where it takes a young player longer to mature compared to other areas of the pitch.

Clearly the likes of Bannan and Fonz aren't good enough for this level, I still hold out hope for Albrighton as even last season he still had a run of games over xmas/new year where he played well so I do hold out hope he can still be revived under Lambert.

[tarzansbrother]

I can just imagine the manager sitting in a darkened room tonight and thinking "What the hell can I do"

Or fucking hell Bannan and Delfeunso are shit why did I start them. Oh and Nzogbia fucking fucking hell he cost £10m pounds sterling.

Or thinking "Why the hell did I say yes?"

[brian green]

Just got home from the game.   Agree with pretty much everything which has gone before on this thread.   I fully intend to stick by Lambert through thick and thin, I have had enough of managers being brought in and being shipped out at great expense but I would fault him for the inclusion of Fonz and N'Zogbia in the starting line up.   Fonz deserves to be found a club in the lower leagues where he can earn a decent living.   I do not care what happens to N'Zogbia so long as he is not in a Villa shirt.

Shay Given has brought his sloppiness from the Euros back to the club which pays his substantial wages and I would bench him for enough games as it takes to make him shape up and get out of the comfort zone he nestles in.

They came out in the second half like a team which had had the mother of all bollockings which was richly deserved.   Paul Lambert must now apply the same strength of character to his meeting with the board next week to fund the buying of better quality players.

Playing the passing game is all very well and we know it is the best way to achieve success at the highest level but if you have players who are technically not good enough to play perfectly directed, perfectly paced, perfectly timed and perfectly weighted passes to team mates moving into positions to receive those perfect passes you are better off playing direct, muscular, physically dominant football.   You must also have players who can understand what the manager is telling them and they must have the willingness to do it.

The only plus for me today was that the players Lambert has brought in look better quality than the collection of misfits TSM left behind.

In conclusion I also believe that not only is Bent a luxury we cannot afford when we are under the cosh as we were all day today he is a useless captain.   Strikers never make good captains.   Never once did I see him rousting a player or encouraging a player and when we got a constant stream of very debatable refereeing decisions go against us I never saw him approach the referee and legitimately but forcefully request that a greater degree of even handedness might be in order.   He is another one nestling in the comfort zone with Given and needs a major kick up the arse not the predictable VIP treatment he gets.

Paul Lambert has learned more about the players at his disposal from the two games we have played than he would from twenty friendlies.

[kippaxvilla2]

Players in. Simple as that. I fear Lambert has left himself to much to do in the market with too little time left.

You must read between the lines here - he is hamstrung by the budget restrictions he has been given.  My mate for example was telling me Lowton was a waste of £3m when we could have found someone else half decent for that amount - what he doesnt factor in of course is this obsession with wage cutting.  When set against that sort of transfer policy, you are going to get Matt Lowton - young, but essentially a League 1 player thrust suddenly into the limelight.

I was there today and it was truly dreadful for 80 minutes.  It felt like we were the away team for most of it.  I thought the starting line up was a bad mistake with the midfield far too lightweight and without craft against a streetwise, established good side.   Ireland and Holman should have started, Baker should have started at Centre Half with Clark at left back would have given it more balance.

I have been saying for a while that Given needs to be taken out and I thought he was generally poor (one decent save at the start of the 2nd excepted) throughout.

Ron Vlaar is going to be very good alongside a mobile partner - maybe someone like Shawcross from Stoke.

As for the atmosphere, it was mostly awful, and you can tell when it is bad down at Villa when fans start fighting with each other in the Holte as is what I witnessed towards the end.  It felt eerily like Norwich at home in 1986.

[john2710]

Given - at fault for the 2nd goal and possibly the first. Still has 4 years on his contract - worrying.
Lowton - understandably struggled to cope with Pienarr and Baines on his own, but othwise OK.
Baker - have been hugely impressed with him at centre half. Got on the end of everything. Not a left back.
Clarke - nice footballer but needs to remember he's a centre half.
Vlar - good debut, not helped by those around him.
Herd - didn't look fit, limited & should not a be anywhere near a first choice
KEA - best Villa player by some distance
N'Zogbia - talented but a lost cause
Bannan - lightweight, can't play as a 2nd midfielder, another lost cause
Bent - a luxury this team can't afford. Gets no service.
Delfouneso - lost heart, has done nothing in the past 2 years to warrant still being at the club.

Lichaj - better left back than Baker
Holman - promising, but another light weight
Weiiman - OK as a late option, not a first choice

Lambert - got the formation / team wrong today. Will now know the size of his task. Needs Lerner's backing NOW.

Easy to over react after a performance like that but we were second best all over the park. 

[CT]

I have to be honest in saying Everton tore us a new arsehole for 65 minutes - I felt we were lucky it was only three. It was embarrassing at times.

The lack of quality service to Darren Bent is just laughable. Wigan clearly saw us coming when we paid up £10m for CNZ - Too many average performances today by players who (and I was fairtly close to the pitch) looked lacking in any confidence at all. Herd looked like he was running in mud and Bannen and esp Fonz just ain't up to the job.

Everton looked strong and well organised but I didn't think they'd beat us like that! Like many have said before, we buy, and buy well or we're in for another tough 9 months.

I'm a bit surprised at the criticism of the fans - I felt we stuck with them (under TSM that place would have been poisonous at 0-3 down) - Yes there was booing - I'm sure most teams who were 3-0 down and getting spanked at home would get the same reaction.

[Witton Warrior]

Found myself thinking "what would Robbie Keane do from this position?" every time the ball was entering the final third...

[Witton Warrior]

It's a long season...
[/quote]

It will feel very, very long I fear...

[PeterWithesShin]

Finally home,. glad I went for a drink after that!

Pretty woeful it has to be said, if Everton had got 7 or 8 we couldn't complain. Having our first shot in first half injury time is embarrassing. Bizarrely we looked better when down to 10 men. Although after about 65-70 minutes Everton seemed to ease up a bit and even then could have scored a few more. Could be a long season. 

[barrysleftfoot]

  Just got back, my pennys worth.

  Given.........Gone, at fault for the 1st 2 goals, probably should have done better on the 3rd.£60k per week, not worth it.

  Lowton....Ok, not too bad, would'nt have got in the team 3 years ago, now seems to be the kind of player we are buying.Looks ok, not slow, not bad on the ball, had a reasonable game against Pienaar.

  Vlaar..........steady, looks a good buy for £3m imho, probably should have closed the shot down for their 1st, but overall quite happy with him

  Clark.....never going to do it imho, we looked a far better defence when Baker went there.Clark is like LMoore, has a lot of ability, average to good at most things, but not good enough at anything to be a good player.

 Baker....is 19, and is going to make mistakes, but saved 3 goals today, and if we perservere with him will be an England player.One of the only bright sparks today.

 KEA.....again looks a good player, struggled with Bannan alongside him, looked better with Holman alongside him.Another bright spark.

  Bannan....as a footballer , i like him, but you have to indulge Bannan, and have a midfield built around him, we can't have that.We were a lot better when he went off.Swap him for Ince at Bpool.

 Herd....where was he supposed to be playing today.Waste of time, he did'nt have a clue, nor did I.A squad player, very poor today.

  N'Zog....for all his faults, he is our most creative player, and he created 3 chances today.If we don't play him , who else.I thought with Holman and KEA and Eric, he played well the last 20 mins.We have to persevere  with him.

 Delf........hard to judge, worked hard, one good cross, never got the ball.

 Bent......If we haven't got the money to buy, then i would be tempted to sell.Didn't do a great deal today, run around a bit, to be fair didn't have much service.

 Holman.....played well when he played in Bannans position, shit up until that.At least he moves off the ball, unlike Bannan.

 Weimann.....every time I see him, he looks like scoring.Unlucky today, would have made a very interesting last 5 mins.

  Lambert.......made a balls up with the starting line up, and we was 3-0 down by H/T.At least he made some admission of guilt by making subs.

 We looked a lot better when Bannan and Herd went off, and Clark going off was a blessing.Unless we make 2/3 signings now, we are going to struggle.

[Matt C]

No shortage of effort and endeavor but there's no hiding from the fact we're desperately short of quality. Just two or three more accomplished and physically stronger players would make a huge difference. It would also allow us to blood the younger players more gradually.

[john e]

didnt get in to the ground untill half time due to a jam on the M1,

just got in from the pub, was asked by a few people what i thought i said, put your money on Everton to finish top 4 its the best Everton team i can remember since the 80's, very impressive, good balance right through the side

as for Villa, the only positive i can think of is that the players Lambert has bought in they all look good, especially Vlaar, but like i said i only saw the second half

probably a blessing

[ACVilla]

I'm quite surprised people are surprised how bad we were.

Given - past his best.
Vlaar - New country, new league
Clark - Yet to convince and young
Baker - Yet to convince and young
Lowton - League 1 defender last year
El Ahmadi - New country, new league
N'Zogbia - Proven not good enough in skill or attitude
Bannan - Yet to convince and young or proven not good enough depending on your stance
Herd - Yet to convince and young
Bent - Needs supply but proven grade A premier league scorer
Delfouneso - Proven shit, not good enough at all. Martin Carruthersesque

Ireland -Lacking in attitude and application
Delph - Yet to convince and young or proven not old enough depending on your stance
Weimann - Massive hope for him but yet to convince and young
Holman - Young, unproven, new league we need him to step up massively

Hopefully fans no realise how bad we actually are and stop talking about top half/European place finish and just pray not to get relegated.

We need major major experienced investment now otherwise we may well be playing Championship football next year.