Have we been in denial?

[Matt Collins]

we're heading for the Championship where we belong.

I'm sorry but that statement is like having sex with a fat girl in an elevator.

Wrong on so many levels.

Doesn't he just mean that our performances have merited relegation? I tend to agree to be honest, or not far off.

[Shrek]

Just a question,

Don't you think the way the board have acted over the last 2 seasons, the managers approach and the performance all equate to a team that deserves to be relegated if we do get relegated?

[dave.woodhall]

Just a question,

Don't you think the way the board have acted over the last 2 seasons, the managers approach and the performance all equate to a team that deserves to be relegated if we do get relegated?

If we finish in the bottom three we deserve to go down, otherwise we don't.

[lovejoy]

How many 'we're going down' threads can we have?

[Chipsticks]

we're heading for the Championship where we belong.

I'm sorry but that statement is like having sex with a fat girl in an elevator.

Wrong on so many levels.

Doesn't he just mean that our performances have merited relegation? I tend to agree to be honest, or not far off.

you know what he probably does, though I'm seriously fed up of hearing the idea on here that Aston Villa Football Club is not a club worthy of the top flight of English Football.

[saunders_heroes]

13 seasons out of the top division in our entire history and some fans think we 'belong' in the Championship. What a load of bollocks.

[Shrek]

Just a question,

Don't you think the way the board have acted over the last 2 seasons, the managers approach and the performance all equate to a team that deserves to be relegated if we do get relegated?

If we finish in the bottom three we deserve to go down, otherwise we don't.

Yeah that's if you look at simply. But I you look into the main reasons we are even flirting with relegation we don't deserve to stay up.
I don't know how to really write what I mean, but hopefully the last couple of years has been a real learning curve for Lerner and Paul Faulkner so that we don't end up like Wolves.

[Ron Manager]

Thought they played better than usual, yeasterday.

Thought they earned their crust.

[dave.woodhall]

Just a question,

Don't you think the way the board have acted over the last 2 seasons, the managers approach and the performance all equate to a team that deserves to be relegated if we do get relegated?

If we finish in the bottom three we deserve to go down, otherwise we don't.

Yeah that's if you look at simply. But I you look into the main reasons we are even flirting with relegation we don't deserve to stay up.
I don't know how to really write what I mean, but hopefully the last couple of years has been a real learning curve for Lerner and Paul Faulkner so that we don't end up like Wolves.

How do you work that out? Do the Glazers deserve to win the league? Do City? You deserve to finish where you finish and I really don't understand this self-loathing streak we're starting to show.

[Shrek]

Just a question,

Don't you think the way the board have acted over the last 2 seasons, the managers approach and the performance all equate to a team that deserves to be relegated if we do get relegated?

If we finish in the bottom three we deserve to go down, otherwise we don't.

Yeah that's if you look at simply. But I you look into the main reasons we are even flirting with relegation we don't deserve to stay up.
I don't know how to really write what I mean, but hopefully the last couple of years has been a real learning curve for Lerner and Paul Faulkner so that we don't end up like Wolves.

How do you work that out? Do the Glazers deserve to win the league? Do City? You deserve to finish where you finish and I really don't understand this self-loathing streak we're starting to show.

It's not self loathing, it's just the fear that Randy cannot see what he has done and we are going to persist with this manager.

We are shit, the manager is shit, the players have not performed but if anybody critisises Villa on here they get accused of wanting us to do bad or self loathing.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

Just a question,

Don't you think the way the board have acted over the last 2 seasons, the managers approach and the performance all equate to a team that deserves to be relegated if we do get relegated?

If we finish in the bottom three we deserve to go down, otherwise we don't.

Whoever it was  invented this system of all the teams playing each other a couple of times and having a points table to measure the best and worst was certainly onto something. If it doesn't work in our favour at the end, we more than any other set of supporters in the land should be prepared to accept our fate.

[dave.woodhall]

Tell me where that happens? On the contrary, I'd say there's an element of our support who believes that they have some right to talk the club down at every opportunity without any argument. Looking at some of the 'woe is us' stuff that's been on here lately, self-loathing is exactly the term to use. You finish in the relegation places, you deserve to get relegated. If you finish out of them you don't. I fail to see how anything else can be the case.

[Louzie0]

Just a question,

Don't you think the way the board have acted over the last 2 seasons, the managers approach and the performance all equate to a team that deserves to be relegated if we do get relegated?

If we finish in the bottom three we deserve to go down, otherwise we don't.

Yeah that's if you look at simply. But I you look into the main reasons we are even flirting with relegation we don't deserve to stay up.
I don't know how to really write what I mean, but hopefully the last couple of years has been a real learning curve for Lerner and Paul Faulkner so that we don't end up like Wolves.

How do you work that out? Do the Glazers deserve to win the league? Do City? You deserve to finish where you finish and I really don't understand this self-loathing streak we're starting to show.

It's not self loathing, it's just the fear that Randy cannot see what he has done and we are going to persist with this manager.

We are shit, the manager is shit, the players have not performed but if anybody critisises Villa on here they get accused of wanting us to do bad or self loathing.

So if I understand this, you think that we deserve to go down even if we are not included in the bottom three, because of the performance of the owner, manager, players and club as a whole?

[N'Zimidy]

Bring it slightly more back onto topic. I want to take a look at the squad McLeish inherited and the money that was given to him before deciding whether it's our squad that was the problem or McLeish that was the problem.

So here is our squad from the day McLeish arrived (I've taken Young and Downing out as they were already off):

1. Guzan (?)
2. Young (Herd)
4. Dunne (Cuellar)
5. Collins (Clark/Baker)
3. Warnock (Lichaj)
6. Makoun (Delph)
8. Petrov (Gardner)
7. Ireland (Bannan)
10. Albrighton (?)
11. Gabby (?)
9. Bent (Heskey/Weimann)

1-11 suggesting the first team that we had when McLeish arrived. As you can see, we had a pretty good squad considering we had about 15 players leave. When McLeish arrived, Downing and Young were off. That meant we had £20m to rebuilt the squad.

What he should have done:

Goalkeeper: Looking at that squad, it's clear that we need a first-choice goalkeeper. At the time we were linked with Al Habsi and Given for about £3m each. Either one would do.

Defence: In terms of the defence, we had a pretty solid back four (Warnock aside). We have a reserve that could play in each position and so (unless we were replacing Warnock) there was no real need to change the defence.

Central Midfield: With the loss of Reo-Coker, but the reappearance of Ireland, it's pretty clear that we still need 1 new midfielder. We're not sure if Ireland is up to the task yet. We have some good reserves that can come in but three experienced midfielders aren't really enough.

Wingers: We lost two heavily important wingers. We need 2 more to replace them. Albrighton is a bit out of sorts following Houlliers reign and Gabby isn't exactly a winger.

Strikers: We have Bent, Gabby, Heskey and Weimann. No changes necessary.

What he actually did:

Goalkeeper: Picked up Given for £3m. Obvious choice.

Defence: Sell an experienced and in form Luke Young for £500k. Replace him with Alan Hutton for £3,500,000.

Midfield: Loan off Makoun ,one of only three recognized central midfielders. Replace him with Spurs reject and constant cripple Jenas.

Wingers: Sign just one very temperamental and disillusioned winger for £10m.

Strikers: No change.

Therefore what happened to our pretty solid looking first team? Hutton turns out to be the worst right-back in the league, never gets dropped. Jenas is out for the entire season after playing about 8 minutes. Only two experienced midfielders remain, youngsters Herd/Clark get drafted in. Makoun leaving means that there is no link between defence and midfield. Hoofball ensues. Albrighton and N'Zogbia aren't exactly doing well. They're dreadful in fact. Alby is out of sorts and N'Zogbia doesn't know how to pass. Gabby gets drafted in at winger but can't really play there. Bent gets no supply as the wingers around him can't pass, nevermind cross it to him.

We get some injuries. Unfortunately we have no replacement wingers because McLeish put all his eggs in the "N'Zogbia and Alby staying fit and in form forever and ever" basket. Bannan gets drafted in on the wing. We only had two midfielders so when Petrov got his illness, there was only Ireland left. More youngsters drafted in. Hutton and Warnock turn out to be so dreadful, they end up getting dropped. More youngsters drafted in. Dunne, Clark and Cuellar get injured so Baker gets drafted in. Bent out for the season, Gabby stuck on the wing, Weimann gets drafted in.

So looking back, I would say it's completely McLeishs fault we are in this position. We had a decent squad, we had £20m to plug the holes with a couple of wingers, a central midfielder and a goalkeeper. Instead we ended up with one out-of-sorts winger, minus one central midfielder and a far worse right-back than what we had before. Well done McLeish.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

The basic principles he laid down will tell us exactly whether we deserve to stay up or down.



Brilliantly simple idea. Settles all arguments for me who deserves to go up and down..