Have we been in denial?

[john e]

Have we been in denial ?
Here is what we were saying/predicting in August.

http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=44383.0

The answer is YES...the majority of us got it massively and embarassingly wrong.

thats because we were all willing to give the new manager a chance

[VillaAlways]

Have we been in denial ?
Here is what we were saying/predicting in August.

http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=44383.0

The answer is YES...the majority of us got it massively and embarassingly wrong.

I said 14th and I was being very pessimistic at the time

[Concrete John]

I found mine and I went for 8th.  Earlier in this thread I said we should have been aiming for around 9th.  At least I'm consistent, even if totally wrong!       

[not3bad]

Regardless if many of us wanted N'Zogbia here (fair play to anyone who still has the N' prefix to their name...I think most people got rid of it, sheepishly and sharpish) it's McLeish who gets paid a million quid a year after tax to make the right decision. The way Zoggy messed him about following his u-turn on a move to Blose previously was, perhaps, an indicator.
You may think he's gubbins Greg but he showed at Wigan that he's a very talented player. It's up to the manager to get that talent out of him on a regular basis. And he hasn't managed it.

Nzogbia is a misfit, he showed at Wigan that he had the odd decent game,  he has not produced regularly since his early period at Newcastle. MOTD syndrome

Exacly right Hawkeye.  Even a Wigan he only really showed glimpses of his talent.  He put together a bit of a run at the end of the season, scored a few goals and that was enough for Dave Whelan to royally screw us, which let's face it, he seems to enjoy.

It seems the Wigan fans must have been laughing inside their sleeves as well, then, as I don't remember any one of them mentioning the weaknesses listed here.  All the reports I saw said we were getting a good player who would prove to be better than Downing was for us.

[not3bad]

I think what has dissapointed me most about N'Zogbia is his unwillingness to put in a cross.  He practically always has to cut in.

EDIT: Though I suppose that might be down to the fact that he's playing on the right when he's left footed.

[Dave Clark Five]

I think what has dissapointed me most about N'Zogbia is his unwillingness to put in a cross.  He practically always has to cut in.

I always thought the same with Mark Walters. Is it because a burst on the outside is more likely to result in a solid chopping down by the full back?

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

I think what has dissapointed me most about N'Zogbia is his unwillingness to put in a cross.  He practically always has to cut in.

EDIT: Though I suppose that might be down to the fact that he's playing on the right when he's left footed.

I find it difficult to remember occasions when N'Zogbia has been within 5 yards of the by line, let alone right close to it attempting to cross a ball pulled back away from the keeper and forcing defenders to stretch for a ball angled away from them. Hutton has done this more than N'Zogbia.

[pestria]

The gist of the OP's question is shoule we be in a better position given the resources available?

A few points:

The signings....  Friedal needed replacing, a wide player was needed to supply Bent and we've been saying for ages the RB position needed sorting.   Up to this point I'd say he did OK in spotting what the priorities were, but then we come to the midfield....

He inherited a squad with one, ageing, proven midfielder.  He released a couple of young possibles (Makoun and Delph).  As a result he was overly reliant on Ireland and Jenas.  Given jenas's injury record he was in effect relying on kids from outset in the centre of the park - a suicidal risk.

Then we come to the management and tactics as the season has progressed.  Scraping results with the myriad of injuries and a team of kids over the past few games is probably exceeding their capabilities (if not expectations).   

The real problem was the total negativity and underperformance in the first half to two-thirds of the season.   The list is almost endless - Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Hutton, Ireland (no goals - ?no assists) , N'Zog, Gabby, Heskey - of players who have contributed close to nothing all season.    Admittedly a few of these didn't become bad players overnight (Dunne and Heskey were well past their sell-by date) but the others have seriously under performed. 

AMc has been either unable to motivate or tactically organise the senior players.  For that reason we have underperformed and for that reason he must take responsibility.

[VillaAlways]

The gist of the OP's question is shoule we be in a better position given the resources available?

A few points:

The signings....  Friedal needed replacing, a wide player was needed to supply Bent and we've been saying for ages the RB position needed sorting.   Up to this point I'd say he did OK in spotting what the priorities were, but then we come to the midfield....

He inherited a squad with one, ageing, proven midfielder.  He released a couple of young possibles (Makoun and Delph).  As a result he was overly reliant on Ireland and Jenas.  Given jenas's injury record he was in effect relying on kids from outset in the centre of the park - a suicidal risk.

Then we come to the management and tactics as the season has progressed.  Scraping results with the myriad of injuries and a team of kids over the past few games is probably exceeding their capabilities (if not expectations).   

The real problem was the total negativity and underperformance in the first half to two-thirds of the season.   The list is almost endless - Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Hutton, Ireland (no goals - ?no assists) , N'Zog, Gabby, Heskey - of players who have contributed close to nothing all season.    Admittedly a few of these didn't become bad players overnight (Dunne and Heskey were well past their sell-by date) but the others have seriously under performed. 

AMc has been either unable to motivate or tactically organise the senior players.  For that reason we have underperformed and for that reason he must take responsibility.

Ireland has scored 1 goal and had at least 2 assists
Otherwise agree

[pestria]

The gist of the OP's question is shoule we be in a better position given the resources available?

A few points:

The signings....  Friedal needed replacing, a wide player was needed to supply Bent and we've been saying for ages the RB position needed sorting.   Up to this point I'd say he did OK in spotting what the priorities were, but then we come to the midfield....

He inherited a squad with one, ageing, proven midfielder.  He released a couple of young possibles (Makoun and Delph).  As a result he was overly reliant on Ireland and Jenas.  Given jenas's injury record he was in effect relying on kids from outset in the centre of the park - a suicidal risk.

Then we come to the management and tactics as the season has progressed.  Scraping results with the myriad of injuries and a team of kids over the past few games is probably exceeding their capabilities (if not expectations).   

The real problem was the total negativity and underperformance in the first half to two-thirds of the season.   The list is almost endless - Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Hutton, Ireland (no goals - ?no assists) , N'Zog, Gabby, Heskey - of players who have contributed close to nothing all season.    Admittedly a few of these didn't become bad players overnight (Dunne and Heskey were well past their sell-by date) but the others have seriously under performed. 

AMc has been either unable to motivate or tactically organise the senior players.  For that reason we have underperformed and for that reason he must take responsibility.

Ireland has scored 1 goal and had at least 2 assists
Otherwise agree

Thanks - but this isn't saying much for a player who is viewed by many as the player of the season - best of a bad lot?

[not3bad]

The list is almost endless - Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Hutton, Ireland (no goals - ?no assists) , N'Zog, Gabby, Heskey - of players who have contributed close to nothing all season.    Admittedly a few of these didn't become bad players overnight (Dunne and Heskey were well past their sell-by date) but the others have seriously under performed. 

AMc has been either unable to motivate or tactically organise the senior players.  For that reason we have underperformed and for that reason he must take responsibility.

Agree with this.  Instead of "Are we in Denial" this thread should have been called, "Who is more to blame, the players or the manager".  I'm inclined to blame the manager.

[VillaAlways]

The gist of the OP's question is shoule we be in a better position given the resources available?

A few points:

The signings....  Friedal needed replacing, a wide player was needed to supply Bent and we've been saying for ages the RB position needed sorting.   Up to this point I'd say he did OK in spotting what the priorities were, but then we come to the midfield....

He inherited a squad with one, ageing, proven midfielder.  He released a couple of young possibles (Makoun and Delph).  As a result he was overly reliant on Ireland and Jenas.  Given jenas's injury record he was in effect relying on kids from outset in the centre of the park - a suicidal risk.

Then we come to the management and tactics as the season has progressed.  Scraping results with the myriad of injuries and a team of kids over the past few games is probably exceeding their capabilities (if not expectations).   

The real problem was the total negativity and underperformance in the first half to two-thirds of the season.   The list is almost endless - Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Hutton, Ireland (no goals - ?no assists) , N'Zog, Gabby, Heskey - of players who have contributed close to nothing all season.    Admittedly a few of these didn't become bad players overnight (Dunne and Heskey were well past their sell-by date) but the others have seriously under performed. 

AMc has been either unable to motivate or tactically organise the senior players.  For that reason we have underperformed and for that reason he must take responsibility.

Ireland has scored 1 goal and had at least 2 assists
Otherwise agree

Thanks - but this isn't saying much for a player who is viewed by many as the player of the season - best of a bad lot?

Personally I'd give that award to Herd but Ireland would be second.As you say there is very little to choose from.Long gone are the days when we had players making the PFA team of the year and winning young Player of the year

Thanks again Randy.Our fall from grace has been quite spectacular and sadly completely avoidable.Complete and utter negligence

[paul_e]

Given that not all the fees are public there's a little guesswork involved but if you go through our squad as is (including Makoun) it comes out to a value around £90m in fees paid.

I think we can all agree that there is some waste in there but even still, a squad that has cost that much to assemble shouldn't be involved in a relegation fight so no we're not in denial, we're a better squad than is being shown.

Yes we had problems last season, but that was under a manager who was wanting to play a type of football that many of our players wouldn't have been suited to, which caused a lot of friction in the squad.

A lot of the players we have are, in my opinion, the type of players McLeish would buy himself so for me the 'he needs time to build a squad of his own' argument doesn't wash.

[not3bad]

BTW, had to check, somebody has done the "No we're in De Amazon" joke right?

[Rip Van We Go Again]

BTW, had to check, somebody has done the "No we're in De Amazon" joke right?

We're all in despair at the moment.