Sir Graham has his say

[Monty]

He also didn't fall into the lazy trap of saying we don't like him because he is ex blues, he just pointed out that someone coming from them is going to need to get off to a better start than if they had come from somewhere else.

That's the same thing isn't it? I mean, I don't factor in the Blues thing at all, I couldn't care less.

The where he came from thing has been massively exaggerated in the media to the point where they have almost ignored the fact that it just might be the style of play and results that we are not happy about. Having said that, to go the other way and suggest his previous club is totally irrelevant to every single one of our supporters would for me be equally untrue.

Oh I agree, doubtless there are those for whom it is an issue. But I would go as far as to say it's a minority issue, and even those who do use it against him don't care as much, as you say, as the media would suggest.

For a small minority it's a reason and for a small minority of them it's the main reason.

Bang on.

[Handsworth Wood Villa]

The main reason is that he is crap.

The fact that he came from Blues makes it even worse.

[Martyn Smith]

I have linked this on my facebook page, and coupled it with my $0.02 on the matter as below:

Graham, your position in Villa's history is secure. However...

"A number of Villa players must look at themselves and ask 'have I, every time, committed myself to the cause?'" said Taylor.

Undoubtedly true. However, the best managers find a way of motivating each player. Ron Saunders got it spot on, sometimes an arm round the shoulder, sometimes a kick up the backside....

'Taylor also feels Alex McLeish's association with city rivals Birmingham has made life difficult for the Villa manager, who left St Andrew's to become Villa boss last June.
"There was always going to be a group of fans who would never accept Alex," said Taylor.'

Oh Graham, I thought you'd've been above this old chestnut...yes there were a small band who wouldn't accept AMc because of his Blue link. However, there were more, far more, of us, who didn't want him at Villa because we didn't think he would be a good enough manager for the club. This was exactly the same reason why we successfully campaigned against Steve McLaren, a man with no Blues link, taking the job.

As a reference, I doubt many Villa fans would mind Chris Hughton taking over to Villa Park next season, if Blues don't get promoted...

"Some of the supporters have moaned and groaned because they feel Alex has set up his teams not to lose as opposed to set them up to win," said Taylor.
"It's an easy thing to say. The money hasn't been available to Alex that had been to Martin. There was a big financial deficit and that couldn't continue."

How does b follow a? Yes perhaps AMc didn't have the squad that MO'N did. But what's that got to do with positive tactics?...

...and anyway, this is something that you agree with at the end of the piece...

'Taylor would like to see a more attacking style of play from his former club.
The 67-year-old, who led Villa to second place in 1990 before becoming England manager, explained: "I just think it's better to lose a game by trying to win it. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but it's better for the supporters, spectators and the game as a whole.
"If you are preparing your side not to lose - I'm sure Alex would disagree, but that's how it looks - then, if you don't win that game, you come in for a great deal of criticism. That's what's been happening at Villa."
Discussing the atmosphere at the club, he added: "It's created a very downtrodden air when you go to Villa.
"People are worried, they're not happy, they're gloomy and that doesn't help trying to get results on the pitch."

Precisely...you've just talked yourself round to our argument...thanks Graham...but why have a go at fans for essentially agreeing with what you say at the end here? GT your legend, as I said, is secure at Villa. But please don't taint it with criticisms of fans which you can't back up...

[Phil from the upper holte]

I've never called him a blue nosed wanker, a wanker a ****** and many other things but the blue nose bit never comes into it for me, I just knew he played terrible defensive football there and he brought it here like many said he would

[Martyn Smith]

I've never called him a blue nosed wanker, a wanker a c*** and many other things but the blue nose bit never comes into it for me, I just knew he played terrible defensive football there and he brought it here like many said he would

Indeed...

...something else I forgot to say about GT's piece was regarding his assertion that we were on AMc's back from the off because it wasn't 'win, win, win' from the off. Actually, that is not the case. After our (so far penultimate) home win against Norwich on 5 Nov we stood 8th, just 4 points behind the European places. And I, personally, remember thinking at that time, well, ok, this isn't too bad, perhaps he might be able to do something for us after all...it's since about then, however...well, 20 points from the following 22 games tells its own story...

[Rip Van We Go Again]

In all honesty, I've forgot sometimes when we've had debates on here exactly where he came from.
The first thing I think about him is Rangers.

I'd say the vast majority of supporters are against him because he is a piss poor Manager that implements piss poor football, which I also believe is a factor in the poor form of both Gabby and N'Zogbia and to a lesser extent, Albrighton.

If it looks like shit, smells like shit and tastes like shit.
Then it probably is shit.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Oh, and excellent replies to Sir Graham's article by Martyn Bentsmith.

[tomd2103]

Oh, and excellent replies to Sir Graham's article by Martyn Bentsmith.

I wonder if there is any way of getting such feedback to Graham Taylor, so that next time he is asked his opinion he won't trot out the tired Blues line.  He's not on Twitter is he?

[Chris Harte]

This from the same article:

In 16 home games this season, Alex McLeish's team have won just four games. Villa's record low in a season is six (which happened from 19 matches in 2005-6 and also from 21 matches in 1994-5). In 1889-90, they won six and five in 1890-91 - but only 11 home matches were played in those seasons.

This, in a nutshell for me, is why the current manager deserves to be relieved of his duties, barring an incredible, and unlikely, turnaround in form.

[rob_bridge]

Think generally well thought out comments from Graham Taylor and yes the managers are an old boys network and most don't like upsetting others - hence the coded piece on not appearing to play positive football.

The coming from the Blues thing bothers me not a jot - I would take Hughton tomorrow if it meant getting rid of the current incumbent. In fact, I hate the fact that our fans even bother singing about That Lot. Ever. At its' worst it only drags us to down to their level.

McLeish did not sleep walk into this job - he knew the circumstances and therefore knew he has to hit the ground running - proving that his tactics are not negative (contrary to all recent history at Rangers, Scotland and Blues) and ensuring a respectable top half finish. His 3 outfield signings have worked out terrible. The 2 pomising players from last year (Albrighton and Bannan) look a shell of those players this season. And he had fewer trouble makers to deal with compared to the Clueless Domenech-Backing Houllier.
In fact when her arrived some of the senior players probably breathed a sigh of relief they didn;t have to deal with Houllier's 'quirky' methods and apparent aloofness.

He has failed to deliver in results and performances - witness a limp exit from the League Cup and wins against 2 bottom tier teams from 2 cup runs.

Couple with that with relegation style form who on earth could make a case for him doing a good job?

Yep some of the players haven't done their job and please never ever blame fans for the ills of a club. Yes we are fickle but no fans, no club and most fans didn't want him prior to his appointment, then gave him a chance and are no fed up that their fears have materialised.

[paul_e]

'Taylor also feels Alex McLeish's association with city rivals Birmingham has made life difficult for the Villa manager, who left St Andrew's to become Villa boss last June.
"There was always going to be a group of fans who would never accept Alex," said Taylor.'

Oh Graham, I thought you'd've been above this old chestnut...yes there were a small band who wouldn't accept AMc because of his Blue link. However, there were more, far more, of us, who didn't want him at Villa because we didn't think he would be a good enough manager for the club. This was exactly the same reason why we successfully campaigned against Steve McLaren, a man with no Blues link, taking the job.

What's the difference a 'group of fans' and a 'small band' that makes you right and him wrong?

I actually think what's saying with this bit is spot on.  There is a tribal element of the support (which would exist at any club) who will never accept him.  What GT doesn't say (but the tone of the article implies it) is that the piss poor football has quickly made those fans more vocal and that perception has been increased.

I do agree that the finance comments leading on to the poor football do seem odd but that could easily be down to the reporter.

Forget the order and filler, just read the quotes as stand alone and you can clearly see that he thinks McLeish has made a lot of the problems for himself and needs to change style to get fans onside.

[garyshawsknee]

A question to all of you in Brum. Does Ron Saunders ever feature in local press and media? I wonder what his thoughts are.

[PeterWithesShin]

If we looked half decent and seemed to be heading in the right direction I wouldn't give a rats where he was from.

There are some though that wouldn't take to him no matter how we were doing. Looks at Spurs with George Graham, even when he was winning them the league cup he was still "man in a raincoat" to an element of their support.

[Merv]

Indeed...

...something else I forgot to say about GT's piece was regarding his assertion that we were on AMc's back from the off because it wasn't 'win, win, win' from the off. Actually, that is not the case. After our (so far penultimate) home win against Norwich on 5 Nov we stood 8th, just 4 points behind the European places. And I, personally, remember thinking at that time, well, ok, this isn't too bad, perhaps he might be able to do something for us after all...it's since about then, however...well, 20 points from the following 22 games tells its own story...

That's right; after all the initial resistance and concern there was a stage earlier this season when I did begin to wonder whether we'd be in for a top half finish. The question marks against that were that we'd had a pretty gentle start to the season, and that McLeish's team selection was a bit suspect, and true enough, we got found out when the fixtures got difficult. Since then, it's been downhill most of the way. I'd defy any club's fans not to voice their dismay given a similar run of results and performances.

[Eigentor]

Obviously the Blues connection does play a part.

It's bad that we appointed a poor manager.

It's worse that we helped Blues by helping them to get rid of a poor manager.

And the worst of it is that we also handed them a lot of money in the process.

To some, it's the combination of appointing a poor manager and the "act of charity" towards (what some would say is) our worst rivals.

In a way, we are now suffering because we were kind to the Blues. That doesn't make sense.