How do we change the 'cultural' make up of football crowds?

[Dave Cooper please]

I'm not saying it should have anything to do with integration at all. My argument was that club football supporting is tribal, it provides a collective identity, more often than not imprinted by parents and peers; and that if something in your make-up already provides this, why then feel the need to ally oneself to something as relatively inconsequential as a football club?

I think you are over-simplifying the make up of a football crowd to suit your own reasons for supporting the Villa. For every football fan who feels part of some sort of tribe (or congregation for those who see football as some sort of religion!) or who were brow-beaten by parents, siblings or their peers into supporting the club there will be countless others with many different reasons.

 Take me, I don't see following football as tribal, I do it because I like live football. None of my family were Villa fans, most had little interest in the game at all. At school in Tamworth there were fans of many clubs, Villa maybe had the edge but there were almost as many Blues, Liverpool and Leeds fans, my best mates supported Leicester and Sunderland (because they won the cup in '73 but he's stuck with them ever since, season ticket holder for thirty-odd years despite never living up there).
 I chose Villa becuase my next-door neighbour used to go and would take me with him if I could be prised away from Tiswas. ("It'll do yer good to get out the house" me mom would say).

 In the Sky era I doubt many youngsters see football as particularly tribal, they are used to the sanitised pversion we now have to watch. Football at the higher levels is now a product to be sold to whoever will pay.

 I also don't get what you are trying to say about other ethnic groups. Are you saying that because they are Indian (for instance) and know other Indians, they will never want or need to do anything that isn't seen as "Indian"? So they can play cricket, eat curries and watch Bollywood films but will never want to go and watch Die Hard, eat a Big Mac and go and see the Villa because none of those activities are part of their "culture"?

[N'ZMAV]

Personally I think the club needs to keep improving ways to get the kids interested, get the current adults bringing kids with them. They're the next generation. I couldn't give a fuck whether they're black, white, brown, pink, orange, red or blue skinned. It's too easy for kids - especially teenagers, to have to be fashionable and support a 'winning' team...

[MoetVillan]

Its always been too easy to support winning teams.  As I grew up, everyone had Liverpool and Everton bags at school.  Shops didnt stock other teams stuff.  Man United started winning things and suddenly everything was Manure

[andyh]

Personally I think the club needs to keep improving ways to get the kids interested, get the current adults bringing kids with them. They're the next generation. I couldn't give a fuck whether they're black, white, brown, pink, orange, red or blue skinned. It's too easy for kids - especially teenagers, to have to be fashionable and support a 'winning' team...

Thats a great point mate, but so bloody hard to do.
My daughter (15) has been a season ticket holder for 5 years.
For the last 5 years years, the poor girl has been absolutely bored to death at Villa Park. Although I  try to be upbeat and positive during the game, for her sake, it very difficult when the team is consistently shite !!     
Maybe things are turning the corner, but I think I will have a battle royale this summer to convince her to keep her ticket.
There are far better things she could be doing with her mates on Saturday afternoon than sitting in the pub for an hour with her old man and his mates, and then suffering the match itself!! 

[VillaBobby]

Let me get this right. It's fine for you to sell your service to other businesses because they need it. Villa don't need to, indeed they most definitely should not, encourage "more ethnicities" to attend Villa Park because they don't need football. Shall we leave this open for others to comment on?

It's your board so you can leave it open if you wish. Again trying to put words into my mouth. My opinion is Aston Villa should be looking to sell itself to everyone, not a particular race, but all races. The best way the club can do that is to put a competitive team on the pitch.

And in the meantime they can make the same people want to attend games by making Villa Park a more attractive place for them to visit, particularly those sections of the city's population at present under-represented in our crowds. Do you want them there, or not?

I am not concerned by the ethnic back ground of the crowd, I want people to attend Villa Park who want to attend. I would rather sit next to an enthusiastic Villa fan from the moon than one that has little interest & only turned up for the free ticket.

I believe Villa have tried to attract the local population, they didn't do it base of ethnicity though which is correct, they based it upon postcode offering discounted tickets etc & I have not seen any real uptake, but then I don't ask people postcodes in the stadium.

Do you believe the club should be targeting specific races?

[VillaBobby]

Spot on paulie.

I think Villa Bobby came across as borderline BNP in some other discussion we had ages ago. Just the impression I got, apologies if he's a full-on Nazi. Or not.

Would you like back up your claim with fact and not conjecture?

You absolute moron. If I have a different opinion to yours ten i am a nazi?

Obviously you hadn't noticed, but if you read my post again you will see I already apologised.

Are you surprised every year when the St Patrick's Day parade in Birmingham fails to incite large scale civil disorder in the way that a friendly against Celtic inevitably would?

I would guess that as the St Patricks Day parade is attended by mostly first/second/third generation Irish people who are as Burmmie as the next man & do not use it as a vessel to antagonise like a Celtic game would do then I wouldn't see any need for anyone to create disorder.

I have been to several Celtic games so I can speak from experience on that subject & I have been drunk at the parade so I can have an opinion I believe.

[VillaBobby]

Personally I think the club needs to keep improving ways to get the kids interested, get the current adults bringing kids with them. They're the next generation. I couldn't give a fuck whether they're black, white, brown, pink, orange, red or blue skinned. It's too easy for kids - especially teenagers, to have to be fashionable and support a 'winning' team...

This is correct IMO. Kids are the future of the club & there are not enough attending Villa Park. Finance would be a major factor in & this & I seen schemes from the club giving tickets to local schools in Aston, Witton, Handsworth & Hockley which is great. But what about kids from other parts of the city where finance is tight?

My son goes to school in Barr Beacon & he has had a season ticket with me for 6 years now but he has said his school has never had any representation from the club let alone the offer of free tickets for the less well off.

As has been mentioned, if we bring the kids from all corners of the city, the ethnic mix will come naturally as it will be reflecting of the city & not engineered.

[dave.woodhall]

Let me get this right. It's fine for you to sell your service to other businesses because they need it. Villa don't need to, indeed they most definitely should not, encourage "more ethnicities" to attend Villa Park because they don't need football. Shall we leave this open for others to comment on?

It's your board so you can leave it open if you wish. Again trying to put words into my mouth. My opinion is Aston Villa should be looking to sell itself to everyone, not a particular race, but all races. The best way the club can do that is to put a competitive team on the pitch.

And in the meantime they can make the same people want to attend games by making Villa Park a more attractive place for them to visit, particularly those sections of the city's population at present under-represented in our crowds. Do you want them there, or not?

I am not concerned by the ethnic back ground of the crowd, I want people to attend Villa Park who want to attend. I would rather sit next to an enthusiastic Villa fan from the moon than one that has little interest & only turned up for the free ticket.

I believe Villa have tried to attract the local population, they didn't do it base of ethnicity though which is correct, they based it upon postcode offering discounted tickets etc & I have not seen any real uptake, but then I don't ask people postcodes in the stadium.

Do you believe the club should be targeting specific races?

Yes I do. Some  races/religions are scandalously under-represented in the make -up of football crowds and aftab's experiences above are one of the main reasons. Some years ago we had a game v Bolton where local people were given tickets, halal food was sold and certain areas of the game made alcohol-free. I don't know if it had a major effect but there seem to be a lot more Asian Villa supporters now than there were before then.

[pauliewalnuts]

I believe Villa have tried to attract the local population, they didn't do it base of ethnicity though which is correct, they based it upon postcode offering discounted tickets etc & I have not seen any real uptake, but then I don't ask people postcodes in the stadium.

Do you believe the club should be targeting specific races?

Any business which deals with tens of thousands of customers, and wants to attract more of them, will - as part of that process, not the entirety of it - look at sectors in the demographic where they particularly underperform and try to encourage more 'trade' from there.

The fact is, if Villa target people living in postcode areas close to the ground, they are going to be largely talking about the Asian population of Aston. Looking at the demographics of Aston, only 20% or so are "white British".

Those Asian families weren't targetted "because" they're Asian, they were targetted because they live in the local area. So, if you're targetting a group which is majority Asian, you are obviously going to look at their needs particularly closer.

Your argument that by targetting everyone, the Asian interest in the game will come as part of that wider demographic totally ignores the fact that the perceived barriers to attending football matches is going to be very different for Asian families than it is for white British ones - and the reasons are pretty obvious.

As Dave said above, look at aftab's experience.

[VillaBobby]

Let me get this right. It's fine for you to sell your service to other businesses because they need it. Villa don't need to, indeed they most definitely should not, encourage "more ethnicities" to attend Villa Park because they don't need football. Shall we leave this open for others to comment on?

It's your board so you can leave it open if you wish. Again trying to put words into my mouth. My opinion is Aston Villa should be looking to sell itself to everyone, not a particular race, but all races. The best way the club can do that is to put a competitive team on the pitch.

And in the meantime they can make the same people want to attend games by making Villa Park a more attractive place for them to visit, particularly those sections of the city's population at present under-represented in our crowds. Do you want them there, or not?

I am not concerned by the ethnic back ground of the crowd, I want people to attend Villa Park who want to attend. I would rather sit next to an enthusiastic Villa fan from the moon than one that has little interest & only turned up for the free ticket.

I believe Villa have tried to attract the local population, they didn't do it base of ethnicity though which is correct, they based it upon postcode offering discounted tickets etc & I have not seen any real uptake, but then I don't ask people postcodes in the stadium.

Do you believe the club should be targeting specific races?

Yes I do. Some  races/religions are scandalously under-represented in the make -up of football crowds and aftab's experiences above are one of the main reasons. Some years ago we had a game v Bolton where local people were given tickets, halal food was sold and certain areas of the game made alcohol-free. I don't know if it had a major effect but there seem to be a lot more Asian Villa supporters now than there were before then.

When was this game?

I have not missed a home game for 28 years & don't seem to recall that. Though it may well have happened and I would not welcome the selling of halal food per-say & abandonment of alcohol as you will alienate other supporters who are not practising Islam.

You could also encourage more none English speaking people to Villa Park with your publication. 

[VillaBobby]

I believe Villa have tried to attract the local population, they didn't do it base of ethnicity though which is correct, they based it upon postcode offering discounted tickets etc & I have not seen any real uptake, but then I don't ask people postcodes in the stadium.

Do you believe the club should be targeting specific races?

Any business which deals with tens of thousands of customers, and wants to attract more of them, will - as part of that process, not the entirety of it - look at sectors in the demographic where they particularly underperform and try to encourage more 'trade' from there.

The fact is, if Villa target people living in postcode areas close to the ground, they are going to be largely talking about the Asian population of Aston. Looking at the demographics of Aston, only 20% or so are "white British".

Those Asian families weren't targetted "because" they're Asian, they were targetted because they live in the local area. So, if you're targetting a group which is majority Asian, you are obviously going to look at their needs particularly closer.

Your argument that by targetting everyone, the Asian interest in the game will come as part of that wider demographic totally ignores the fact that the perceived barriers to attending football matches is going to be very different for Asian families than it is for white British ones - and the reasons are pretty obvious.

As Dave said above, look at aftab's experience.

I disagree that any business will target under performing area's within it business which will create greater expenditure & bring little sustainable value. You imply the campaign was aimed towards a specific ethnic group, I would disagree as the marketing would have been more appealing than just ticket reduction but more at the culture.

A lot of assumption on this thread, is there any detail I can examine that supports the assumptions?

[dave.woodhall]

Let me get this right. It's fine for you to sell your service to other businesses because they need it. Villa don't need to, indeed they most definitely should not, encourage "more ethnicities" to attend Villa Park because they don't need football. Shall we leave this open for others to comment on?

It's your board so you can leave it open if you wish. Again trying to put words into my mouth. My opinion is Aston Villa should be looking to sell itself to everyone, not a particular race, but all races. The best way the club can do that is to put a competitive team on the pitch.

And in the meantime they can make the same people want to attend games by making Villa Park a more attractive place for them to visit, particularly those sections of the city's population at present under-represented in our crowds. Do you want them there, or not?

I am not concerned by the ethnic back ground of the crowd, I want people to attend Villa Park who want to attend. I would rather sit next to an enthusiastic Villa fan from the moon than one that has little interest & only turned up for the free ticket.

I believe Villa have tried to attract the local population, they didn't do it base of ethnicity though which is correct, they based it upon postcode offering discounted tickets etc & I have not seen any real uptake, but then I don't ask people postcodes in the stadium.

Do you believe the club should be targeting specific races?

Yes I do. Some  races/religions are scandalously under-represented in the make -up of football crowds and aftab's experiences above are one of the main reasons. Some years ago we had a game v Bolton where local people were given tickets, halal food was sold and certain areas of the game made alcohol-free. I don't know if it had a major effect but there seem to be a lot more Asian Villa supporters now than there were before then.

When was this game?

I have not missed a home game for 28 years & don't seem to recall that. Though it may well have happened and I would not welcome the selling of halal food per-say & abandonment of alcohol as you will alienate other supporters who are not practising Islam.

You could also encourage more none English speaking people to Villa Park with your publication. 

The game was in 2007 or 2008. Halal food and an alcohol-free area was in one small part of the ground and the only people who would be alienated by such a thing would be those looking to be so offended. My publication has been all-inclusive since it began, as a regular reader would know.   

[danlanza]

Nothing wrong with Halal food. It's a lot tastier than the other shite turned out at most football grounds.
A alcohol free zone i don't think there is a need for as that is simply your choice if you drink or not.
I don't think that zoning of a small part of the ground for the Halal is good either as this is the same as Ethnic segregation. Make Halal available in all food serving kiosks, surely it would not be that hard to do. Seeing as a large number of the staff who work in the food kiosks are from a non white background surely they should have more of an input as to what food is served. A bloody huge pan of Chicken Balti or Vegitarian Balti could be done in most of the kiosks and i know what i would choose to eat given the choice of a shitty burger or a tray with chips and balti. No contest.
Jamaican chicken, rice and peas, easy to prepare for masses of people and also highly profitable.
Just an idea.Bloody good one i think.
The local cultural food available in the ground would be fantastic.

[Legion]

I think there is plenty wrong with Halal food, in particular the method of slaughter. Doesn't taste any different to me, either.

[danlanza]

I think there is plenty wrong with Halal food, in particular the method of slaughter. Doesn't taste any different to me, either.

But we are on about balancing the Cultural diversity of our football fans, so this may be a way to do that. Not a fan of the  slaughtering process myself but then the people who eat Halal food are not fond of the way we slaughter our animals either.