How do we change the 'cultural' make up of football crowds?

[dave.woodhall]

I'm not frustrated, and I don't know why you should ask such a question. I'm confused as to why you are against ideas to raise attendances,so keen to alienate such a large potential number of supporters, and so desperate to claim that the Villa Park crowd is something it hasn't been for decades.

[VillaBobby]

I do the sales myself and have seen phenomenal growth for my little empire. Turned over £6m last year from a standing start in 2009. I am able to sell to my customers because I have identified they need my service to trade. My jobs has been to convince them that my company is the one to deliver it. Football fans don't need football.

The culture I refer to is that of working class people. They have been the back bone of football supporters from day one, though I have seen a change in that dynamic since the onset of the SKY years.

You're arguing against yourself there. On the one hand, football fans are chosen (whatever that means) and nobody ever decides one day that they might fancy going to a match, but on the other nobody needs football so it doesn't have to be sold.

Villa average gate in 1985-86 15,000. In 2007-08, over 40,000. That indicates to me that virtually an entire new support was created.

I said footballs choose and are not chosen. I chose to go to Villa Ark as a 10 year old with no parental encouragement so can only speak from experience.

As for the attendance's the reasons for that were down mostly to hooliganism, look at the attendance's prior to the advent of hippies kicking lumps out of anything that moved at a football match. ,

If you can only speak from experience, why have you generalised all the way through this thread? And if people choose why shouldn't they be persuaded to choose us rather than anywhere else - just like you do in your business?

This is hard work, the original question was about encouraging more ethnicities down to VP. They do not need football so can choose not to attend. My customers need the service I provide to trade so I have the opportunity to sell to them through need!

As for generalisations, this thread is all about that unless someone can put up a census of the local population of Aston as to why they decide not to attend football matches.

[PeterWithesShin]

I'd just like to say that turnover is vanity.

[pauliewalnuts]

What do you mean by "need" football?

That's a very strange word to use in conjunction with football. Your customers need your services because without them, they can't trade.

Football attenders can get enjoyment by going to football matches, but that doesn't mean they "need" football to gain enjoyment. Look at the numbers who have stopped going to Villa Park over the last two years for an illustration of that.

Football is an expensive, luxury product these days. It hasn't been the opium of the working man for at least twenty years.

[dave.woodhall]

Let me get this right. It's fine for you to sell your service to other businesses because they need it. Villa don't need to, indeed they most definitely should not, encourage "more ethnicities" to attend Villa Park because they don't need football. Shall we leave this open for others to comment on?

[VillaBobby]

I'm not frustrated, and I don't know why you should ask such a question. I'm confused as to why you are against ideas to raise attendances,so keen to alienate such a large potential number of supporters, and so desperate to claim that the Villa Park crowd is something it hasn't been for decades.

Who am I alienating? I would be as happy as the next person to see a full Villa Park again, but my statement that this is down to a poor team is forgotten by some leading questions trying to make me give you an answer you want to hear, which is not going to happen.

So my final word, if Aston Villa which to see a full house again, irrespective of the race or sex of that support, improve the team.

[pauliewalnuts]

I'm not frustrated, and I don't know why you should ask such a question. I'm confused as to why you are against ideas to raise attendances,so keen to alienate such a large potential number of supporters, and so desperate to claim that the Villa Park crowd is something it hasn't been for decades.

Who am I alienating? I would be as happy as the next person to see a full Villa Park again, but my statement that this is down to a poor team is forgotten by some leading questions trying to make me give you an answer you want to hear, which is not going to happen.

So my final word, if Aston Villa which to see a full house again, irrespective of the race or sex of that support, improve the team.

But you've moved your original argument on.

I'd agree with your final word, improving the team is the most reliable route to bigger crowds, but I fail to see how that can be used as an argument against encouraging people from different ethnic backgrounds to attend.

Why don't we do both?

[VillaBobby]

Let me get this right. It's fine for you to sell your service to other businesses because they need it. Villa don't need to, indeed they most definitely should not, encourage "more ethnicities" to attend Villa Park because they don't need football. Shall we leave this open for others to comment on?

It's your board so you can leave it open if you wish. Again trying to put words into my mouth. My opinion is Aston Villa should be looking to sell itself to everyone, not a particular race, but all races. The best way the club can do that is to put a competitive team on the pitch.

[pauliewalnuts]

I've seen more Asians at Villa park this season than any I can recall which is encouraging. I also had a lady from Malaysia at the Swansea game sat next to me who had flown all the way just to see villa play.

Jesus Christ, talk about picking the right home game to go to!

[Stu]

Let me get this right. It's fine for you to sell your service to other businesses because they need it. Villa don't need to, indeed they most definitely should not, encourage "more ethnicities" to attend Villa Park because they don't need football. Shall we leave this open for others to comment on?

It's your board so you can leave it open if you wish. Again trying to put words into my mouth. My opinion is Aston Villa should be looking to sell itself to everyone, not a particular race, but all races. The best way the club can do that is to put a competitive team on the pitch.

Just as long as it stays within specific cultural boundaries.

[dave.woodhall]

Let me get this right. It's fine for you to sell your service to other businesses because they need it. Villa don't need to, indeed they most definitely should not, encourage "more ethnicities" to attend Villa Park because they don't need football. Shall we leave this open for others to comment on?

It's your board so you can leave it open if you wish. Again trying to put words into my mouth. My opinion is Aston Villa should be looking to sell itself to everyone, not a particular race, but all races. The best way the club can do that is to put a competitive team on the pitch.

And in the meantime they can make the same people want to attend games by making Villa Park a more attractive place for them to visit, particularly those sections of the city's population at present under-represented in our crowds. Do you want them there, or not?

[PeterWithesShin]

I'd just like to say I know plenty of Asians who love the Villa. Most of the lads I went with in the late 80's early 90's were Asian, but the shit they had to take for being football fans (often from other Villa fans, including taking kickings in the Holte) in the bad old days I wouldn't be at all surprised if some ethnic groups were still intimidated about going.

[olaftab]

I mean that football fans usually choose to watch football matches and its not forced or created. Football is a culture within our culture and has taken generation upon generation to develop. I don't believe that can be instilled into people but has to come from time and experience.

With respect this is total bollox. I know that my dads generation whilst not actually going to live matches took to it and when I was young I listened to them discuss the saturday matches ad nauseum and getting together to tune into  MotD yet there was no sign of football in the  sub continent that they left about 10 years earlier as young migrants. For my and my children's generation it is as popular as in any household across the country. It does not need 50 years of embedding!

[peter w]

Employ someone like Benjamin Zephaniah to reach out to the local population. He's a Villa fan who encountered racism at home games as a child. But he still decided to go because of his love for the club. If he can get that message across, including the huge improvements in that area, and its a step in the right direction.

[adrenachrome]

VillaBobby may have a point, although I seem to remember him banging on on about Marxists for no particular reason one time: the ethnics don't need it; we don't need it, nobody needs the Factory of Sadness in their lives.

Singalonga Detroit Emeralds' "Feel The Need In Me" and tug your slug to the lascivious Legs and Co (always liked Sue, myself).