How do we change the 'cultural' make up of football crowds?

[Dave]

I also think the club should be doing more to get fans they have lost back and again I will state, that will only come with an improvement on the pitch.

Not quite.

I'd agree that it's probably the main thing that will have an impact,  but it's not the only thing.

Lower ticket prices, a big-name signing, more convenient kick-off times and a more pleasurable stadium experience could all potentially have an impact on the number of people choosing to watch a match or not.

[dave.woodhall]

I mean that football fans usually choose to watch football matches and its not forced or created. Football is a culture within our culture and has taken generation upon generation to develop. I don't believe that can be instilled into people but has to come from time and experience.

Aston Villa are not exclusive in this which should say something.

I also think the club should be doing more to get fans they have lost back and again I will state, that will only come with an improvement on the pitch.

People shouldn't be encouraged to attend Villa Park because they either want to or they don't. I wouldn't apply for any sales &  marketing jobs if I wer you. And who is the 'us' in 'our culture'?

[VillaBobby]

I mean that football fans usually choose to watch football matches and its not forced or created. Football is a culture within our culture and has taken generation upon generation to develop. I don't believe that can be instilled into people but has to come from time and experience.

Aston Villa are not exclusive in this which should say something.

I also think the club should be doing more to get fans they have lost back and again I will state, that will only come with an improvement on the pitch.

People shouldn't be encouraged to attend Villa Park because they either want to or they don't. I wouldn't apply for any sales &  marketing jobs if I wer you. And who is the 'us' in 'our culture'?

I don't need to apply for any jobs as I run my own successful company, but thank you for the thought.

Can you advise where I mention in and which culture would you like me to describe?

[pauliewalnuts]

I mean that football fans usually choose to watch football matches and its not forced or created. Football is a culture within our culture and has taken generation upon generation to develop. I don't believe that can be instilled into people but has to come from time and experience.

What if there are people out there who are interested in the game, would want to go to one, but feel too intimidated - for whatever reason - to do so.

I honestly can't see the point of arguments against trying to encourage interest in the club in all areas of society.

Nobody is talking about forcing any sort of interest - you can't do that, of course.

[dave.woodhall]

I mean that football fans usually choose to watch football matches and its not forced or created. Football is a culture within our culture and has taken generation upon generation to develop. I don't believe that can be instilled into people but has to come from time and experience.

Aston Villa are not exclusive in this which should say something.

I also think the club should be doing more to get fans they have lost back and again I will state, that will only come with an improvement on the pitch.

People shouldn't be encouraged to attend Villa Park because they either want to or they don't. I wouldn't apply for any sales &  marketing jobs if I wer you. And who is the 'us' in 'our culture'?

I don't need to apply for any jobs as I run my own successful company, but thank you for the thought.

Can you advise where I mention in and which culture would you like me to describe?

Presumably you employ sales people, or are your customers born, nor created? The culture you described as 'our' culture, as in "Football is a culture within our culture."

[VillaBobby]

I mean that football fans usually choose to watch football matches and its not forced or created. Football is a culture within our culture and has taken generation upon generation to develop. I don't believe that can be instilled into people but has to come from time and experience.

Aston Villa are not exclusive in this which should say something.

I also think the club should be doing more to get fans they have lost back and again I will state, that will only come with an improvement on the pitch.

People shouldn't be encouraged to attend Villa Park because they either want to or they don't. I wouldn't apply for any sales &  marketing jobs if I wer you. And who is the 'us' in 'our culture'?

I don't need to apply for any jobs as I run my own successful company, but thank you for the thought.

Can you advise where I mention in and which culture would you like me to describe?

Presumably you employ sales people, or are your customers born, nor created? The culture you described as 'our' culture, as in "Football is a culture within our culture."

I mean that football fans usually choose to watch football matches and its not forced or created. Football is a culture within our culture and has taken generation upon generation to develop. I don't believe that can be instilled into people but has to come from time and experience.

Aston Villa are not exclusive in this which should say something.

I also think the club should be doing more to get fans they have lost back and again I will state, that will only come with an improvement on the pitch.

People shouldn't be encouraged to attend Villa Park because they either want to or they don't. I wouldn't apply for any sales &  marketing jobs if I wer you. And who is the 'us' in 'our culture'?

I don't need to apply for any jobs as I run my own successful company, but thank you for the thought.

Can you advise where I mention in and which culture would you like me to describe?

Presumably you employ sales people, or are your customers born, nor created? The culture you described as 'our' culture, as in "Football is a culture within our culture."

I mean that football fans usually choose to watch football matches and its not forced or created. Football is a culture within our culture and has taken generation upon generation to develop. I don't believe that can be instilled into people but has to come from time and experience.

Aston Villa are not exclusive in this which should say something.

I also think the club should be doing more to get fans they have lost back and again I will state, that will only come with an improvement on the pitch.

People shouldn't be encouraged to attend Villa Park because they either want to or they don't. I wouldn't apply for any sales &  marketing jobs if I wer you. And who is the 'us' in 'our culture'?

I don't need to apply for any jobs as I run my own successful company, but thank you for the thought.

Can you advise where I mention in and which culture would you like me to describe?

Presumably you employ sales people, or are your customers born, nor created? The culture you described as 'our' culture, as in "Football is a culture within our culture."

I mean that football fans usually choose to watch football matches and its not forced or created. Football is a culture within our culture and has taken generation upon generation to develop. I don't believe that can be instilled into people but has to come from time and experience.

Aston Villa are not exclusive in this which should say something.

I also think the club should be doing more to get fans they have lost back and again I will state, that will only come with an improvement on the pitch.

People shouldn't be encouraged to attend Villa Park because they either want to or they don't. I wouldn't apply for any sales &  marketing jobs if I wer you. And who is the 'us' in 'our culture'?

I don't need to apply for any jobs as I run my own successful company, but thank you for the thought.

Can you advise where I mention in and which culture would you like me to describe?

Presumably you employ sales people, or are your customers born, nor created? The culture you described as 'our' culture, as in "Football is a culture within our culture."

I do the sales myself and have seen phenomenal growth for my little empire. Turned over £6m last year from a standing start in 2009. I am able to sell to my customers because I have identified they need my service to trade. My jobs has been to convince them that my company is the one to deliver it. Football fans don't need football.

The culture I refer to is that of working class people. They have been the back bone of football supporters from day one, though I have seen a change in that dynamic since the onset of the SKY years.

[pauliewalnuts]

So, if football is a culture within a culture that has taken generation on generation to develop, how come it got so popular with the middle classes so very quickly, after 1990?

[peter w]

Why does the ethnicity of the crowd need to be changed?

It is surely desirable that attendances increase, and one way to do that is to attract more people from ethnic minorities.

I don't believe that was the original question?

I find it all a little racist to suggest we need to recruit anyone on the basis of their ethnicity.

If we want to increase attendance's then we need a better team. The fan base already exists, the club just need to give them a reason to come back, not create a new one.

So we should just ignore every other potential new supporter?

Where have I said that? My experience of football fans are not chosen they chose.

You said it where you said "The fan base already exists." As for "football fans are not chosen they chose," what does that mean?

I mean that football fans usually choose to watch football matches and its not forced or created. Football is a culture within our culture and has taken generation upon generation to develop. I don't believe that can be instilled into people but has to come from time and experience.

I think its quite the opposite. Football fans generally support their local team and has come from being taken. I didn't choose to go to Villa I was taken. my love for Villa was forced on me. And I am thankful for that. also, I am now inflicting this rollercoaster ride onto my 3 year-old, andhis 5 month old brother will also have it forced upon him.

There are those that either have other reasons for attending Villa matches, but not many simply because they just chose to go.

[dave.woodhall]

I do the sales myself and have seen phenomenal growth for my little empire. Turned over £6m last year from a standing start in 2009. I am able to sell to my customers because I have identified they need my service to trade. My jobs has been to convince them that my company is the one to deliver it. Football fans don't need football.

The culture I refer to is that of working class people. They have been the back bone of football supporters from day one, though I have seen a change in that dynamic since the onset of the SKY years.

You're arguing against yourself there. On the one hand, football fans are chosen (whatever that means) and nobody ever decides one day that they might fancy going to a match, but on the other nobody needs football so it doesn't have to be sold.

Villa average gate in 1985-86 15,000. In 2007-08, over 40,000. That indicates to me that virtually an entire new support was created.

[VillaBobby]

So, if football is a culture within a culture that has taken generation on generation to develop, how come it got so popular with the middle classes so very quickly, after 1990?

So, if football is a culture within a culture that has taken generation on generation to develop, how come it got so popular with the middle classes so very quickly, after 1990?

Because it became sanitised. They are still mostly floating fans IMO and make up the majority of this missing from VP.

Look at the corporate area on the Trinity Road, its the last section to ever sell out.

[dave.woodhall]

So, if football is a culture within a culture that has taken generation on generation to develop, how come it got so popular with the middle classes so very quickly, after 1990?

So, if football is a culture within a culture that has taken generation on generation to develop, how come it got so popular with the middle classes so very quickly, after 1990?

Because it became sanitised. They are still mostly floating fans IMO and make up the majority of this missing from VP.

Look at the corporate area on the Trinity Road, its the last section to ever sell out.

Yet again you're arguing against yourself. You say we need to get the floating fans back. You say football fans are working class. You say the floating fans are middle class. Which is it?

[VillaBobby]

I do the sales myself and have seen phenomenal growth for my little empire. Turned over £6m last year from a standing start in 2009. I am able to sell to my customers because I have identified they need my service to trade. My jobs has been to convince them that my company is the one to deliver it. Football fans don't need football.

The culture I refer to is that of working class people. They have been the back bone of football supporters from day one, though I have seen a change in that dynamic since the onset of the SKY years.

You're arguing against yourself there. On the one hand, football fans are chosen (whatever that means) and nobody ever decides one day that they might fancy going to a match, but on the other nobody needs football so it doesn't have to be sold.

Villa average gate in 1985-86 15,000. In 2007-08, over 40,000. That indicates to me that virtually an entire new support was created.

I said footballs choose and are not chosen. I chose to go to Villa Ark as a 10 year old with no parental encouragement so can only speak from experience.

As for the attendance's the reasons for that were down mostly to hooliganism, look at the attendance's prior to the advent of hippies kicking lumps out of anything that moved at a football match. ,

[dave.woodhall]

I do the sales myself and have seen phenomenal growth for my little empire. Turned over £6m last year from a standing start in 2009. I am able to sell to my customers because I have identified they need my service to trade. My jobs has been to convince them that my company is the one to deliver it. Football fans don't need football.

The culture I refer to is that of working class people. They have been the back bone of football supporters from day one, though I have seen a change in that dynamic since the onset of the SKY years.

You're arguing against yourself there. On the one hand, football fans are chosen (whatever that means) and nobody ever decides one day that they might fancy going to a match, but on the other nobody needs football so it doesn't have to be sold.

Villa average gate in 1985-86 15,000. In 2007-08, over 40,000. That indicates to me that virtually an entire new support was created.

I said footballs choose and are not chosen. I chose to go to Villa Ark as a 10 year old with no parental encouragement so can only speak from experience.

As for the attendance's the reasons for that were down mostly to hooliganism, look at the attendance's prior to the advent of hippies kicking lumps out of anything that moved at a football match. ,

If you can only speak from experience, why have you generalised all the way through this thread? And if people choose why shouldn't they be persuaded to choose us rather than anywhere else - just like you do in your business?

[VillaBobby]

So, if football is a culture within a culture that has taken generation on generation to develop, how come it got so popular with the middle classes so very quickly, after

So, if football is a culture within a culture that has taken generation on generation to develop, how come it got so popular with the middle classes so very quickly, after 1990?

Because it became sanitised. They are still mostly floating fans IMO and make up the majority of this missing from VP.

Look at the corporate area on the Trinity Road, its the last section to ever sell out.

Yet again you're arguing against yourself. You say we need to get the floating fans back. You say football fans are working class. You say the floating fans are middle class. Which is it?

Do you feel frustrated tonight?

The hardcore of football support is working class and I would make up 95% of the current crowd at Villa Park. There are many more working class fans that are unable to attend through a variety of reasons.

Middle Class, though I would like a description of the classes, are not under the same restraints in the main but choose not to go. That is because the football is not good, hence the corporate areas are mostly empty.

[bertlambshank]

Football hasn't been working class for years.