Young completes Man Utd move

[dave.woodhall]

I can only recall that period between about 2001-2002 when they spent big on the likes of Van Nistelrooy, Veron, Barthez and Ferdinand that they punched anything like their weight in the transfer market over an extended period. Prior to that -and indeed since then-  it's been one off big deals here and there, supplemented with kids through the ranks and bargain basement deals.

They spent quite a lot in 2007-8 on the likes of Anderson, Nani and Berbatov. Granted, compared to Chelsea and Man City, they're prudent, but Fergie likes to spend a few bob now and then (certainly compared to Wenger).

He's broken the British transfer record 3 times. Which isn't unreasonable considering how long he's been there. But to put it into perspective, Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea and City have each broken it once since he's been at Old Trafford.

If you're talking purely British records so have Blackburn, Rangers and Leeds.

[Redman]

I can only recall that period between about 2001-2002 when they spent big on the likes of Van Nistelrooy, Veron, Barthez and Ferdinand that they punched anything like their weight in the transfer market over an extended period. Prior to that -and indeed since then-  it's been one off big deals here and there, supplemented with kids through the ranks and bargain basement deals.

They spent quite a lot in 2007-8 on the likes of Anderson, Nani and Berbatov. Granted, compared to Chelsea and Man City, they're prudent, but Fergie likes to spend a few bob now and then (certainly compared to Wenger).

He's broken the British transfer record 3 times. Which isn't unreasonable considering how long he's been there. But to put it into perspective, Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea and City have each broken it once since he's been at Old Trafford.

If you're talking purely British records so have Blackburn, Rangers and Leeds.

Have they?

[dave.woodhall]

Chris Sutton, Duncan Ferguson (that one surprised me as well) and Rio Ferdinand.

[Redman]

Chris Sutton, Duncan Ferguson (that one surprised me as well) and Rio Ferdinand.

Ah, fair dos. I was looking at wikipedia where they include the Gazza/Platt transfers to Italy and the Anelka transfer to Madrid.

[eamonn]

I was worried you had all that knowledge in your head Redman!

[KevinGage]

I won't deny him credit but at the same time, let's not pretend circumstances didn't conspire heavily in his favour.

When Liverpool's dominance ended, they left a power vacuum that the Mancs were best-placed to fill because at that time, they were the biggest spenders. That coincided with a golden generation of young players, the inception of the premier league and Sky money, and a highly successful floatation.

They've been the best managed football club for the past 20 years and their manager, to his credit, has made the most of the competitive advantages he's been afforded. He may not have spent as much as his rivals but he hasn't had to. The core of that squad fell into his lap meaning he's never had to spread his resources. Instead, he's had the luxury of cherry-picking players to supplement it.

They spent a fair whack early 90's, it's true. But then so did Leeds, ourselves and Blackburn.  In fact I'm pretty certain that Blackburn outspent them and only had the one league title to show for it. Liverpool weren't exactly reluctant to spend back then either; £5 million combined for Mark Wright and Dean Saunders, £2.5 million on Paul Stewart, £1.5 mill on McWalters, near enough the same again on Michael Thomas et.c.  Can't remember how much Nigel Clough was in 1993, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't cheap either.

Cantona was United's pivotal signing lets not forget, and he was signed for something ridiculous like £1.2 million in 1992.  From the mid 90's onwards the core of their side came through the ranks, supplemented with purchases like Berg, Ronny Johnson, Solskjaer and Sheringham signed for modest fees and the odd big deal like Andy Cole, Stam and Dwight Yorke.

You would think that as a PLC and with the revenue the were brining in back then they'd be able to sign pretty much whoever they wanted, But Fergiescum was often bleating on about restrictions forced on him and how the club wouldn't stump up the wages on a par with other similar sized clubs on the continent.

FF to today and the squad they had available for the CL final contained the likes of Van Der Saar, Park, the young Brazillian fullbacks, Owen and Hernandez; players either signed for modest fees or for nothing at all.

The point being that yes, he has signed players for big money in the past (and indeed at present) but at no stage has he been able to play fantasy football and assemble a full squad that way, like many of his rivals can and have done.

[Concrete John]

The core of that squad fell into his lap meaning he's never had to spread his resources.

As far as I'm aware, and please forgive me if this is wrong, but that core of the Beckham/Scholes genration didn't 'fall into his lap'.  People forget that SAF was an Man Utd for (I think) 4-5 years before their first title, so would have set up and overseen that youth set up that produced these players.

I remember seeing Bobby Charlton on tele a few years ago and he said how SAF was always telling him to come along and see the young players.  He did once and was impressed by one winger who just kept picking the ball up, beating people and scoring.  He was then told that they had just signed him up and that his name was Ryan Giggs.

No, SAF built that youth set up so has every right to claim credit for the success they brought.     

[QBVILLA]

As much as i'd like to i can't fault Ferguson.Where he differs from the other top managers of the past 25yrs is his ability to be ruthless.Generally he signs replacements a good season or so before he needs them.Young has been signed to replace Giggs and in Jones and Smalling he's got the replacements for  Ferdinand and Vidic.In comparison Dalglish allowed that great liverpool side of the 80s to get old together which resulted in Souness buying a stack of players in one go, unfortunately for Liverpool those players weren't of the standard required and the decline of Liverpool began.He sold Ince and Hughes who still had plenty to offer due to the faith he had in the kids, that took bottle and nous.

[cheltenhamlion]

We will miss Young. We have known the move was on the cards for some time. Not being allowed the freedom to do as he wishes, and considering the quality of his new colleagues, this move can only improve his game.

[Redman]

I won't deny him credit but at the same time, let's not pretend circumstances didn't conspire heavily in his favour.

When Liverpool's dominance ended, they left a power vacuum that the Mancs were best-placed to fill because at that time, they were the biggest spenders. That coincided with a golden generation of young players, the inception of the premier league and Sky money, and a highly successful floatation.

They've been the best managed football club for the past 20 years and their manager, to his credit, has made the most of the competitive advantages he's been afforded. He may not have spent as much as his rivals but he hasn't had to. The core of that squad fell into his lap meaning he's never had to spread his resources. Instead, he's had the luxury of cherry-picking players to supplement it.

They spent a fair whack early 90's, it's true. But then so did Leeds, ourselves and Blackburn.  In fact I'm pretty certain that Blackburn outspent them and only had the one league title to show for it. Liverpool weren't exactly reluctant to spend back then either; £5 million combined for Mark Wright and Dean Saunders, £2.5 million on Paul Stewart, £1.5 mill on McWalters, near enough the same again on Michael Thomas et.c.  Can't remember how much Nigel Clough was in 1993, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't cheap either.

Cantona was United's pivotal signing lets not forget, and he was signed for something ridiculous like £1.2 million in 1992.  From the mid 90's onwards the core of their side came through the ranks, supplemented with purchases like Berg, Ronny Johnson, Solskjaer and Sheringham signed for modest fees and the odd big deal like Andy Cole, Stam and Dwight Yorke.

You would think that as a PLC and with the revenue the were brining in back then they'd be able to sign pretty much whoever they wanted, But Fergiescum was often bleating on about restrictions forced on him and how the club wouldn't stump up the wages on a par with other similar sized clubs on the continent.

FF to today and the squad they had available for the CL final contained the likes of Van Der Saar, Park, the young Brazillian fullbacks, Owen and Hernandez; players either signed for modest fees or for nothing at all.

The point being that yes, he has signed players for big money in the past (and indeed at present) but at no stage has he been able to play fantasy football and assemble a full squad that way, like many of his rivals can and have done.

When the Mancs signed Cantona, he was already the best player in the league having just inspired Leeds to the title at their expense. That was when the power really shifted. While Souness was busy dismantling Liverpool and Arsenal were losing ground, Ferguson took his other rival out of the equation by nicking their best player.

You have to give the Mancs credit for their transfer strategy. They've always spent big and broken the transfer record more times than any other English club. But they've done so over a longer period of time. The Blackburns and Newcastles went on post-promotion splurges and success proved unsustainable. It wasn't until Wenger arrived that anybody started to challenge them. In the Premier League's formative years, the Mancs had it easy.

So while I agree Ferguson hasn't ever done the fantasy football thing, I maintain that he hasn't ever had to. After filling the power vacuum, he's always been able to build from a position of strength.

[mazrimsbruv]

Oh and good luck for the future Ash;

Here, here.  Manchester United, can't blame the boy.  Oh well good and bad days, more the first.  We will bounce back from this loss and spend big big big.....?!

I don't wish him luck at all. I doubt he gave me or any other Villa fan a second's thought before deciding to chase the money up the M6. Why would I want it to go well for him? I hope it goes really badly, like it pretty much did for Milner & Barry, and then the next one queueing at the exit door (probably Downing) might actually pause for thought, that getting paid shedloads more money might not be worth turning into a bench-warmer and losing your England place.

We are told that footballers have big egos. Really? Why then do they not choose to stay at a club where they're first choice? Where teams are built around them? Where they can carve a name for themselves, drag the team up with them and be worshipped from the stands?

Why? Cos they're not motivated by all that. They're motivated by money.

Big egos? To my way of thinking, their egos are not big enough.

[Redman]

The core of that squad fell into his lap meaning he's never had to spread his resources.

As far as I'm aware, and please forgive me if this is wrong, but that core of the Beckham/Scholes genration didn't 'fall into his lap'.  People forget that SAF was an Man Utd for (I think) 4-5 years before their first title, so would have set up and overseen that youth set up that produced these players.

I remember seeing Bobby Charlton on tele a few years ago and he said how SAF was always telling him to come along and see the young players.  He did once and was impressed by one winger who just kept picking the ball up, beating people and scoring.  He was then told that they had just signed him up and that his name was Ryan Giggs.

No, SAF built that youth set up so has every right to claim credit for the success they brought.   

Not every credit, surely? That youth setup hasn't produced anything near the same quality since. If the talent isn't there, there's nothing to develop.

Alan Hansen famously said "you won't win anything with kids" and he was proven wrong. But he shouldn't have been. It shouldn't be possible to win league titles with any group of kids however talented. It was indicative of how weak English football was at that time. That generation had the unique opportunity to establish itself unchallenged.

[QBVILLA]

But that's where the brilliance of Ferguson shines through though isn't it Redman,building from a position of strength? It takes a lot of bottle to flog Ince who at the time was around 27 and one of England's best midfielders and replace him with a youth team product.Also have to disagree with you when you say that Cantona was the best player in the league when man U signed him.I believe he'd only played something like 13 games for Leeds when Utd signed him and wasn't evena  first team regular.I might have a bit of fuzzy memory here but as i remember the Leeds side that had just won the title had done it with a front two of Chapman and Wallace with Cantona coming in at the end of the season and making mainly sub appearances.

[PeterWithe]

Whatever you think of Suarez, Carroll and Henderson, they are all significantly better than the players they they've replaced (considering Torres was a write-off at that point).

Whats the feeling on Merseyside regarding Torres loss of form since his move, was he looking ropey for you lot before the move

[Mazrim]

Can you remember another rival for the title in those days Redman?

And I'm with my brother on this one. I thank Young for his efforts and will remember him fondly but as for hoping it goes well at United. I hope it goes as smoothly and by the numbers as the Hindenburg's last landing.
Fuck Manchester United.