In defence of Houllier

[dave.woodhall]

"The richest club in the world wanted Milner" At the time they also wanted Torres, Arteta, and Modric, who was the only one they got?

"Wanted" or "were linked with"?

[El Hurricane]

how do you equte Ince with Petrov? Petrov remains the captain

When Houllier joined Liverpool Ince was the captain.I'm just comparing early days at both clubs.

[JUAN PABLO]

Other than selling Milner.

How many clubs in the country do you think would have been able to keep Milner?

Villa could have kept Milner like they are keeping Ashley Young(for how long is unkown). Lerner decided to sell and as it has turned out got a poor deal.

sorry mate...  bollocks.. milner wanted to go ....    it took him seconds to make up his mind when man shitty came in...  it pisses me off when I hear Lerner decided to sell....

[BannedUserIAT]

JJ made a post a few pages back (sorry I can't quote from my phone) that, in my opinion, was bang on. I suspect that Houllier has brought a lot of big-club mentality and methods with him that many players are struggling to come to terms with.

Either that or the simply don't want to come to terms with and would much rathere instigate a revolt that sees Houllier out the door and a return of the easy life they had under Walford and Robinson - a coaching regime stuck in the 70's.

I also suspect that many of our players were happy with being putting in a half arsed effort for full arsed pay and, now having to actually really work for the pay they get, are not at all happy.

Perhaps there's an attitude that, as they'll never get to the kind of technical standards that teams like Arsenal have, why bother even trying? Well, maybe Randy shouldn't bother trying so hard to add that last zero on their pay cheques! 

[WikiVilla]

Who cares what they do in training as long as we get results on the pitch !!
Last year we were top six, got to a cup final and a semi under robbo and walfords training regime
Not too shabby

[BannedUserIAT]

Who cares what they do in training? I fucking do! I don't want year on year of 6th place and the occassional cup final fuck up. We're better than that. And if it means ripping the arse out of the current squad and starting from scratch to do it, fine.

Is this what's happening though? That's the question. Only time will tell.
 
I didn't want to get into the Milner debate as it's not really relevant to this thread but, having thought about it some more, I think it is. In a roundabout sort of way.

And that roundabout is Man Utd and Ronaldo. He wanted away. They were offered stupid money. A deal was done. Not for footballing reasons either. That was so help balance the books a little. Many said that they'd not recover. That he wouldn't/couldn't be replaced. And he wasn't. But they did.

How?   

Because the mentality of that club seems (from the outside at least) that players give everything they have. In training. On matchday. That the boss is the boss. Player power is certainly evident there - you only have to look at the Rooney situation to see that - but I also think that rooney is well aware of who the boss is and, regardless of the enormous money he's on, he'll still have to justify his place in the team. Still have to fight for his spot and still feel the blast of the famous hair dryer when he fucks up. 

Perhaps Houllier is trying to bring this into Villa Park. The resistance is inevitable. But will it be long lasting?

[N'ZMAV]

Who cares what they do in training? I fucking do! I don't want year on year of 6th place and the occassional cup final fuck up. We're better than that.

I'd quite happily take that now :-)

[BannedUserIAT]

I get that. But that comes down to a 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' attitude. And it was broke. And it was going to get worse.

I can't picture that Houllier sold himself to Randy as a hard man that'd shake the squad up and knock them into shape. I think he would have sold himself on technical excellence. Someone like  a poor mans Mourinho if you like. That he'll put plans in place for a new training regime, new tactics and new plans and then sit back with the expectation of having two technically gifted coaches fulfill those expectations. Maybe the coaching balance is wrong. Both Sid and Mac seem like nice blokes. Maybe a bastard was needed in there. 

What would our attitudes be if Houllier came out tomorrow and said that he's fired McAllister because he failed to deliver on his brief? It'd certainly put a new spin on things.
 

 

[Simba]

"Because the mentality of that club seems (from the outside at least) that players give everything they have. In training. On matchday. That the boss is the boss. Player power is certainly evident there - you only have to look at the Rooney situation to see that - but I also think that rooney is well aware of who the boss is and, regardless of the enormous money he's on, he'll still have to justify his place in the team. Still have to fight for his spot and still feel the blast of the famous hair dryer when he fucks up. 

Perhaps Houllier is trying to bring this into Villa Park. The resistance is inevitable. But will it be long lasting?"


But herein lies the point: do the Villa players have any respect for GH. Do they know who is Boss?
It doesn't look like it. As for GH or RL firing McAllister-  well I think it would be the best thing he could do, it would also send a strong message of his power and certainly gain the support of a number of senior players.

Politically it would draw a liine under this mess too, give him a fresh start.

[ROBBO]

Lets go back to the time when we had a stoush with Liverpool over Barry, what was Barrys main gripe? he wanted to play on the European stage and had decided that the quality of personel that MON was bringing to the club was not going to get us there. Forward to Milner, he had decided to go long before MON walked out on us. MON bought Ashley Young as a prospect that worked out but i am hard pressed to name any other player that would get me at the edge of my seat. I say again we were already in decline at the end of last season MON could see that and with no more money to spend decided to get out and preserve his reputation. What we are now seeing is a manager trying to turn a club around that has been badly mismanaged for at least two years. For all the money at his disposal MON has left us bankrupt in playing ability.

[KevinGage]

You make some excellent points Troy.

It's also true to say that Ferguson -the most successful manager of this era- encountered a fair degree of resistance when he first arrived.

Crucially though, he had enough players onside. Players like Bryan Robson, Kevin Moran, Clayton Blackmore and co who bought into his method and philosophy.  I'm not sure Gerard is in the same position.

[Chris Smith]

Sorry Robbo but I don't agree with any of that. Finishing sixth, a cup final and a semi final are not symptoms of two years of mis management. We had established a strong position from which to push on but then financial considerations took precedence over footballing ones and the manager walked off in a huff.

I have stuck up for Houllier but his inability and seeming unwillingness to change things the other night make me wonder whether he has got in him. I accepted that this would be transitional season but I am starting to become concerned that he just isn't up to it.

[Risso]

Uh oh.  A Chris Smith thumbs down is a more damning indictment than the dreaded vote of confidence.

[Archie]

I agree with Robbo as far as MON is concerned, but that doesn't mean that GH isn't destroying our team with his absurd choices, his incomprehensible tactics and  and quarelling with half a team.

[Ian.]

I tell you what all this player power if true really gets to me more than anything else.
These players need to take stock, look at there surroundings, look at the club they are at, look at the history of that club, look at the fans who take part, whether its coming to matches, following from afar, spending money on merchandise or just taking an interest in the club.
These players need to show some bloody respect to Aston Villa and bury any differences they may have on a personal level and get on with the job in hand. If Houllier needs to ship any of these "said" trouble makers lets hope he does quick.