Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: ROBBO on January 07, 2011, 04:29:44 AM
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I don't know whether he is a good manager or whether he's too old and the game is beyond him but i do know he has had very little go his way at Villa. Take the Sunderland game, he wasn't the one who put us down to ten men it was Heskey, apart from that the biggest complaint was his playing Gabby wide left. If we had kept the eleven on the pitch we may have won, we lost and so the Gabby saga reaches a crescendo. He has come into a club where very average players are being paid enormous
amounts of money so much so they will gladly sit on the bench because no other idiot is going to pay them what O'Neill did, we just can't shift them easily. When he tried to put some discipline in place we all cheered about time we said, then when the results didn't materialise it was his fault for putting the players offside. Then there is Carew, comes back after an exteded holiday and says he's not fit enough to play, our leading goalscorer from last year not fit enough, should Houllier get on his knees and beg him to pull on the boots.
He may have done a few things wrong but is it all his fault? no way known.
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Appreciate the debate but it is very difficult to defend the man isn't it.
The fact is that any success he had at Liverpool appears acording to their fans, be have been due to Patrice Bergues. With additional nouse from Phil Thompson. Houllier reminds me a bit of Clough without Taylor. 44 days was it?
Anyway that is the past. Currently he has alienated the fans, divided the dressing room, destroyed our very effective defence, appears tactically immature, collapsed morale in the team, and dropped us into a relegation place with a disastrous series of results.
Lets be honest with demotivated, confused players out of position, running around like the proverbial decapitated fowl, and substitutions at 87 minutes his record on the pitch let alone off it is just indefensible.
Be interesting to see what other commentary you receive on this thread. Brave man.
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It's foolish to suggest that everything is Houlliers fault when it clearly isn't but at the same time, he is ultimately responsible for results and they are not forthcoming.
I have a certain amount of sympathy for him but my primary concern is Villa. Despite the wailing and moaning he was left a squad that is capable of holding it's own in the division, expecting any more would be foolhardy given the timing of of MON's departure. For all the positives such as the emergence of youth and the fine form (if not goal scoring) from Heskey, there is the alarming dip in form of so many players and catastrophic defence.
Most concerning of all is the managers inability to motivate the side, after Wednesday one can only take the Chelsea game as a blip, and this is the biggest issue when it comes to winning games at the moment. How the coming and going of the transfer window will affect this is puzzling, unless he buys a whole new squad.
The players must take a huge amount of blame, but in football it's the manager who is ultimatley responsible and while a turnover of players is required, avoiding relegation is the primary issue now and I don't believe the current manager, on the evidence so far can achieve this aim.
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Robbo. Might be worth looking up the Daily Mail- Midlander article. Can't do links. Can't do computers, sorry.
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I read the article partly the reason for coming to Houlliers defence, it is easy for scribes to apportion blame without giving any answers, we all like someone to blame. I have never see a season when there are so many managers under pressure and to me the answer isn't all that difficult. Chelsea because they havn't strengthened in twelve months, Villa ditto, West Ham because they were crap before the season started and havn't strengthened and Liverpool guess what.
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The inability to build on the Chelsea performance - we looked worse than we had been before - was the most disappointing and worrying thing.
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There undoubtedly are some mitigating circumstances but there is nothing that justifies our team being the worst team in the PL since Gerard arrived.
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In reply to that i would say there isn't a team in the premier league that has had so many long term injuries within weeks of each other and had to rely on so many kids.
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Another great thread, Robbo. And certainly something that everyone will have an opinion on.
For me, Houllier isn't entirely to blame - it's not entirely his fault that Ashley Young shanks so many balls into the stadium or that Gabby can't control a ball or that someone loses the plot and gets sent off.
The players aren't entirely to blame - it's not Gabby's fault he's stuck on the one wing while the preferred winger is lost on the other, or that such talent is stuck on the bench until it's too late.
And the board isn't entirely to blame either. They picked a manager with a good CV, a decent backroom staff and have done all they can with the facilities to get the most out of the playing staff.
But the league is such that when you get everything spot on, you get a Top Four place as a reward. Get a few things wrong here or there and you finish mid-table. Get a few more wrong and you're fighting relegation. Bollocks up completely and you're off to play in a different league.
It's obvious to all that, although we've not yet bollocksed it all up yet, we're working toward it! But the difference between that point and mid-table is so slight that we really only need a few things to change.
The players attitude for one. I don't give a fuck if they don't like their boss. Half the population are in that boat. Knuckle down and do the job you're paid astronomically well to do!
The manager needs to realise that the time to use this season as a training session/transition period/getting to know you, is over. We're in the shit. Pick a game plan - a simple one - and stick with it. Let's get out of this hole we're in and mess about in the pre-season.
The board need to get in a real football man. This 16 year old lad they've got has to move into a different role. I'm sure he's got a brilliant business head but in order to run a football club as a successful business, you've got to get the football right first. He's five, maybe ten years from being able to do this.
Small changes now will save us. Let's look at more radical change when the season's over.
Sounds easy enough but, sadly, there are far too many ego's and way too many Billy Big Bollocks to make it as easy as it sounds. But THAT is up to Houllier to sort out. And to sort out NOW!
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he has not got a fucking clue
Robert Pires case in point
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I actually thought the appointment was a good one, totally out of the blue but ok.
However, to take a team that has played direct football, counter attackiing style and then suddenly expect the same players to suddenly pass their way to success is foolish, and that appears to be what we are trying to do.
Way to soon in my opinion.
Martin O'Neils team was bought to counter attack. And it worked. We played that way for 3 years. The same players cannot be expected to suddenly pass the opposition to death, they just are not the players to do it.
If, and it's a big if at the moment, we do stay up, then I think the appointment long term could be a good one. But the manager should have had the foresight and abilitiy to realise you can't change things overniight. That for me is the most damaging thing he has tried to do.
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Oh, and Houllier needs to lose his defeatist attitude. And fast. John Terry pointed out last season that they knew the Villa would be all but spent by the 70 minute mark. I'm sure teams this reason are all too aware that a two goal cussion - regardless of how long there is to go - is enough to have us licked.
We are now in a fight for our lives. The players won't give a flying fuck as they're not supporters, they'll get picked up by other teams should the worst happen and no doubt get lush signing on bonuses. Houllier needs to get all Alex Ferguson on them with the hair dryer and make them afraid for their careers
Has he got the balls to do it? We'll find out soon enough.
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He isnt completely to blame and I dont think anyone expected him to have us anywhere near where we were last year.
However, we currently sit in the relegation places, he seems completely unable to get his message across to the players or motivate them. Yes the players have to shoulder some of the blame. I personally have played under a manager who we had completely no faith in and as hard as you try it is the most disheartening and dispiriting experience. I know our players are supposed to be professionals but no matter how may thousands you put in their pockets each week it doesnt change the fact that they are human beings. They arent robots who can turn it on and off, they need to be managed correctly, which GH isnt doing.
Getting rid of GH wont solve all of our problems, but it will go some way to solving one.
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Robbo, a well argued brave defence of Houllier.
I have stuck up for him too until the Sunderland game and am nearly always for giving managers more time than they usually get these days.
However, I finally lost patience on Wednesday. Im no master tactician, I just like to see my team win and if possible win with entertaining football. But I felt he made a catalogue of errors on Wednesday, apart from the Gabby/Ashley issue, there seemed a distinct lack of indecision from the touchline. Right now I have lost confidence in him as I now wonder what other errors are being made at Bodymoor Heath in handling and preparing players for games. More importantly than me losing confidence in him, I think that loss of confidence applies to some of the very players we need to try and get us out this mess.
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To the above poster who is using Pires as a seemingly be-all end-all arguement, I'll point you toward Didier Agathe. Something tried, nothing lost.
With all but the ball-boys injured, it wasn't a bad call to get him in. And I'm sure he's a good head to have on the training ground.
To me it shows that Houllier does realise the extent of our issues and is prepared to look outside the box to fix them.
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I watched Houllier and McAllister in the dug-out on Weds night
Both just sat there clueless, no instructions, no motivating players - NOTHING !!
Houllier got up on about 87 mins, to make the subs
This is not leadership, this is not management
It's beyond a joke, a shambles
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After Sunderland he hasn't got a clue, Ashley has played as a striker all season and has I think 1 goal from open play, Delfouneso has more skill than Gabby and Ashley, so if Ash 'can only' play up front, dont put our main striker who cant get past a man on the wing.
I honestly think this is a classic case of Clough and Taylor.
But I also think there is a real problem at this club. The players seem to havaloof of power. We had Gareth Barry who played as a defensive midfielder for England but wouldn't play it for Villa, now we have Ashley who wants to play upfront.
We need a strong character to completely change the mentallity at our club, I think Hoillier is trying to do this, but because of the poor results is losing the battle with the players.
If we were winning a few more games the players would have no choice but to play ball, but now we are in a situation where the manager has too make up with players he basically does not want at the club.
I just hope he can turn it around because the board and Randy have got no balls.
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It wasn't Houllier's fault that Heskey got sent off on Wednesday, but the rest of that shambles sure was. The formation was diabolical. Everyone I have spoken to has said the same and the manager and coaching staff sat motionless on the bench watching it all unfold.
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Excatly, it was obvious after 20 mins that Gabby on the left wing was not working.
Downing on the Right Wing ?? Why not switch them ??
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I was fairly neutral about his appointment, could have been better, could have been a lot worse. I really liked the way he tried to get us to play a more passing game and was willing to trust some of the younger players. Up to the Man Yoo game it seemed to be working and we were playing some good stuff.
However a combination of factors have conspired to bugger things up. Some, like extended injury lists, bad attitudes of some players, and the fact he was saddled with plenty of ageing, technically mediocre, overpaid players, are not his fault. But he has to take responsibility for other problems - trying to change things too quickly, not getting the players on board with what he is trying to do, alienating many fans with that disgraceful show on and off the pitch at Anfield, and his often poorly judged comments in the media. I wouldn't say the shambolic defence is all his fault, we shipped 6 at far from mighty Newcastle before he rocked up, so the rot was already setting in then - but he's done little to correct it.
I still feel he can keep us up if he is allowed to bring in a few of his own players, but I do get the impression he is not taking the job serioulsy enough, a kind of "oh well it's only Villa" attitude. I think he needs to appreciate Aston Villa Fc more and the size of the job he has taken on and pull his bloody finger out.
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I genuinely think, Houllier believes we are lucky to have him
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I read the article partly the reason for coming to Houlliers defence, it is easy for scribes to apportion blame without giving any answers, we all like someone to blame. I have never see a season when there are so many managers under pressure and to me the answer isn't all that difficult. Chelsea because they havn't strengthened in twelve months, Villa ditto, West Ham because they were crap before the season started and havn't strengthened and Liverpool guess what.
Villa not strengthening/ not spending last summer would be a perfectly valid argument if we hadn't pushed on this year, or even if we were lost in mid table. This is a bit more serious than that and this squad alone -even without reinforcements- is not the third worst in the division. So something is wrong somewhere.
For the other clubs you mentioned, Liverpool spent decent money on the likes of Meireles and Poulson and brought in established stars like Joe Cole and Jovanović via free transfers on big wages. West Ham brought in Piquionne, Obona and Hitzelsberger, Chelsea brought in Yossi Benayoun and Ramires. So I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make, unless you're highlighting the fact that they -like us- currently possess a manager who can't get the best out of his players.
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I suppose Houllier's English is not bad.
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I genuinely think, Houllier believes we are lucky to have him
If so, that's something he has in common with the previous manager.
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They are all to blame, players, management, coaching staff. All of 'em.
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I think he does need some support - i am hearing that a few of MON's favourites are determined that he will not succeed (Petrov + Dunne being two very influential players)
I feel that he was thrown in the deepend whern there really was not many decent choices available thanks to the pube head going the way he did also i am hearing that pre season was a joke as MON knew what he was going to do so in fact he did everything he could to fuck us up prior to him going 4 days before the season kicked in. Add to this quite a few players were already told they were surplus (NRC / Beye / Sidders etc) so it was always going to be tough for any manager to enamour them to the club. Add again the spiralling injury list which was as bad as was good all the time under MON and he was on a hiding to nothing.
Now dont get me wrong the Liverpool fiasco regarding the loss and his actions really did not help him with a lot of fans, escpecially with the more precious of our fans "demanding an apology" (I actually feel how Hodgson has grovelled to 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' fans is awful and probably more a sign of the times than anything else)
And then there is luck - or lack of it - it certainly goes against you when you are down here and we have certainly had some shit luck in a lot of games.
There is no excuse for Wed and he should have changed it - it was a poor game but one i felt we would win in 2nd half until Heskey had a rush of blood and then we went into panic mode - i would imagine it would be difficult to make decisions when "our fans" are taking the piss by singing "Sacked in the morning"
Lets not forget we all raved about how free from the shackles our players looked against WHU - then most of commented on how pleasing it was to see our style of gameplay change and especially the fact that he made tactical changes and did not favour the old stages (Did you see the petulance that Petrov did when he was subbed - he would never be captain again for me - he had a shocker yet looked like he was gobsmacked to be taken off).
I feel that the window will make up my mind of Houllier and the board - get this one wrong and we could be in the shit - big style
Although he has made some cock ups - lets not forget why we are here and who put the spoke in the wheels at the start of the season
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At last reasoned discussion without the hysteria what a nice change, i suppose the only post i'll take up is KGs. Yes some of those teams bought a couple of players in but i would argue as to their capabilities, especially Chelsea who are an ageing side and need a major overhaul not a transfusion. I come back to the injuries, horrific is the word i'd use it would challenge any club to have so many senior players out for such a long time, no matter who we appointed he would have faced the same calamity.
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A great thread to read through as with all due respect there is only one comment IMHO that is not that well thought through that being Pires appointment proves anything/everything.
My concerns are I and I think many could accept a mid table "nothing"season if we where making real progress for the future - change of style of play, getting younger better players bedded in etc. But to do this you have to take a leap of faith that the man your "jumping of the ledge with" knows that we will not hit the bottom.
So for me that is the question we are asking is GH the guy that we believe in (medium and longer term) to take that leep with...
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Simba wrote:
The fact is that any success he had at Liverpool appears acording to their fans, be have been due to Patrice Bergues. With additional nouse from Phil Thompson. Houllier reminds me a bit of Clough without Taylor. 44 days was it?
I too have wondered about this. If as reported Patrice Bergues did all of the defensive coaching and the tatical work, then maybe this is the reason for his abject failure so far.
My thoughts on Houllier changed on wednesday, we splipped into the bottom 3 and it was a home performace reminisent of our worst under MON (even before Heskey got sent off). I was up for giving him a reasonable amount of time and even writing this season off as transition. But relegation is too big a threat
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I have heard rumours of around 9-10 players out an the same amount in, during this window and tge summer.
If this is the case, then we will either get a houllier who has his own players who will play for him and we will see progress,
Or we will be well and truly fucked, either way I think we need to support Houllier because it's obvious he isn't going anywhere.
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Simba wrote:
The fact is that any success he had at Liverpool appears acording to their fans, be have been due to Patrice Bergues. With additional nouse from Phil Thompson. Houllier reminds me a bit of Clough without Taylor. 44 days was it?
I too have wondered about this. If as reported Patrice Bergues did all of the defensive coaching and the tatical work, then maybe this is the reason for his abject failure so far.
My thoughts on Houllier changed on wednesday, we splipped into the bottom 3 and it was a home performace reminisent of our worst under MON (even before Heskey got sent off). I was up for giving him a reasonable amount of time and even writing this season off as transition. But relegation is too big a threat
Wasn't Thompson abit like MON jumping up an down on the touchline with real passion?
We are not getting this from Houllier or Mcallister, this lack of passion must filter through too the players.
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There is no excuse for Wed and he should have changed it - it was a poor game but one i felt we would win in 2nd half until Heskey had a rush of blood and then we went into panic mode - i would imagine it would be difficult to make decisions when "our fans" are taking the piss by singing "Sacked in the morning"
This was right at the end of the game, was the decision by then whether to resign?
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'Patrice won't come for family reasons. We are very close but he phoned me to say he can't come for personal reasons. If things get sorted, he will come. He's got problems he must address.'
Houllier added, 'But there will be somebody else as assistant. Some of the people we are looking at are employed so you have to be careful what we say.'
Maybe those family issues are sorted now?
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Simba wrote:
The fact is that any success he had at Liverpool appears acording to their fans, be have been due to Patrice Bergues. With additional nouse from Phil Thompson. Houllier reminds me a bit of Clough without Taylor. 44 days was it?
I too have wondered about this. If as reported Patrice Bergues did all of the defensive coaching and the tatical work, then maybe this is the reason for his abject failure so far.
My thoughts on Houllier changed on wednesday, we splipped into the bottom 3 and it was a home performace reminisent of our worst under MON (even before Heskey got sent off). I was up for giving him a reasonable amount of time and even writing this season off as transition. But relegation is too big a threat
Wasn't Thompson abit like MON jumping up an down on the touchline with real passion?
We are not getting this from Houllier or Mcallister, this lack of passion must filter through too the players.
I sometimes wonder how Ron Saunders was so successful, he was never one for jumping up and down like a disorientated puppet on drugs. He had plenty of disgruntled players in his squad too, not that they lasted too long.
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"Wasn't Thompson a bit like MON jumping up an down on the touchline with real passion?"
Yeah: '....sit down Pinnochio!'
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Simba wrote:
The fact is that any success he had at Liverpool appears acording to their fans, be have been due to Patrice Bergues. With additional nouse from Phil Thompson. Houllier reminds me a bit of Clough without Taylor. 44 days was it?
I too have wondered about this. If as reported Patrice Bergues did all of the defensive coaching and the tatical work, then maybe this is the reason for his abject failure so far.
My thoughts on Houllier changed on wednesday, we splipped into the bottom 3 and it was a home performace reminisent of our worst under MON (even before Heskey got sent off). I was up for giving him a reasonable amount of time and even writing this season off as transition. But relegation is too big a threat
Wasn't Thompson abit like MON jumping up an down on the touchline with real passion?
We are not getting this from Houllier or Mcallister, this lack of passion must filter through too the players.
I sometimes wonder how Ron Saunders was so successful, he was never one for jumping up and down like a disorientated puppet on drugs. He had plenty of disgruntled players in his squad too, not that they lasted too long.
Different era, different player power.
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Mind you- I don't think many of the players would have crossed Ron Saunders. I am afraid that kind of disciplinarian is what we need now.
Discipline or lack of it is the core of the problem to me. If some players don't want to play -sort 'em out. Make an example FGS. But make them play if it is better for the team. Not sideline them. That is cowardice.
Because Houllier gives off this mild mannered -couldn't give a dam- persona he is upsetting all of us. His smugness and a SMILE when asked about his future the other night was arrogance beyond words. His praise of the players after the game even confused THEM!
I sense the squad needs a kick up the arse, some constructive criticsm and be told exactly what is expected of them on the pitch.
My sense is GH is being laughed at behind his back like a too soft schoolteacher. That's why I worry about his ability to turn this around and climb the table with this bunch of players.
Reminds me of the movie :"That Damned United" with Cloughie facing the Leeds players.
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When i first left university i had a job in a coffee shop. Just after i'd started our manager left to manage one of the chains other stores and for about six weeks we didn't have a manager.
The work was easy; open shop, serve coffee, wipe tables. So we were basically fine, possibly not the most motivated and a little sloppy but ok.
Then our new manager Martin arrived (not making this up i swear)
He must have been in quite a difficult position because if he didn't make an immediate impact he would appear to be a useless manager, after all we had been keeping things ticking over without him.
On his first day he made no effort to get to know his staff, he went straight into improving mode. He made the two girls i was working with cry, and he patronisingly showed me how to wipe a table.
I quit the same day because i couldn't face working with the bloke. If I had been on £50k a week, rather than minimum wage, i wouldn't have, but i would still have thought he was a prick, and i imagine however worthwhile his new ideas i would have been resistant to them.
I do have some sympathy for Houllier, bad luck with injuries, poor performances from key players, no chance to bring in his own signings etc. I can't help but feeling that he didn't make a good impression when he first took over, and that the rot may have set in within those first few days as manager.
Kev Mac was obviously popular with the squad so there may have been resistance to GH when he arrived. Judging by his public comments (7th-12th etc) I can't imagine that he was any more diplomatic in private and spent a long time shoring up the confidence of his players and attempting to steady the ship. I suspect he went straight into 'improving' mode and that probably as early as that he may have lost the confidence of the players.
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To borrow your coffee shop analogy briefly, we spent most of last season whinging about the blend of coffees on offer, the richness of the aroma and what makes the perfect cup, and now the guy in charge can't even boil the kettle.
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A football manager should be an inspiration to his players. He's not there to make tweaks and a bit of an improvement. I want a Villa manager who'll inspire players to run through walls and galvanise the fans to get behind the team. Houllier would probably better suited to a coffee shop.
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I still think he has not been given a fair crack at the job ... but he definitely needs a specialist defence-coach since it seems obvious that we cannot defend effectively (I realise that I've just stated the bleedin' obvious but it has to be said!).
He will need to weed out those 'senior' players who appear to be intractably opposed; that happens when managers join clubs.
The challenge is: can he keep us in the P'ship?!
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to borrow your coffee analogy.
He is a has bean.
*cough*
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To borrow your coffee shop analogy briefly, we spent most of last season whinging about the blend of coffees on offer, the richness of the aroma and what makes the perfect cup, and now the guy in charge can't even boil the kettle.
He's boiled some water, but managed to spill most of it on his foot, which is amazing as it was in his mouth at the time.
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Dunne was complaining via third party twitter (I think) about there being no defensive coaching at all, no defensive set piece drills. Nothing with GH and McAllister. All fitnesss work which he had to sit out half because of a knee inflamation problem.
This on Villa News and Views.
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Dunne was complaining via third party twitter (I think) about there being no defensive coaching at all, no defensive set piece drills. Nothing with GH and McAllister. All fitnesss work which he had to sit out half because of a knee inflamation problem.
This on Villa News and Views.
You'll find more truths here (http://www.davidicke.com/) than there.
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Very good. Nothing about Dunne though. :)
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I can agree with some points, but it's Houllier's job to rectify what's gone wrong and that seems to be happening is going one step foward and two steps back. Good result against the Baggies, then a couple of poor defeats... great result against Chavski, then follow it up with a dire result against fucking Sunderland.
I still can't help but think those two reaults against United and Fulham have severely affected us mentally... win those 2 games and we'd be nowhere near relegation.
There's no stability or consistency right now, as manager he needs to deliver that.
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I heard that members of the squad stuffed a banana Houllier's exhaust pipe and put laxatives in his cup of tea. They also start going "mmmmmmmmmmmmm" in unison when Houllier does a team briefing. It was on Facebook or something.
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I heard that members of the squad stuffed a banana Houllier's exhaust pipe and put laxatives in his cup of tea. They also start going "mmmmmmmmmmmmm" in unison when Houllier does a team briefing. It was on Facebook or something.
They also keep mumbling 'All bummers are deaf' at him.
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There has been some extenuating circumstances I agree but even with all our players back we have remained shit. The selection, the delayed subs, the spirit and body language of some of the players and the position are all symptomatic of a manager in need of replacement.
As much as Houllier is not the only one to blame he is the easiest one to replace. Especially as some people might do less to actively cause the problem under the new manager.
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What's most disappointing is it's our senior players who have let us down. The kids have done us proud.
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What's most disappointing is it's our senior players who have let us down. The kids have done us proud.
Quite right Mark.
The kids have done all that's been asked whilst the senior pros have looked like peulant kids who'd rather be anywhere than playing football.
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He's tried to do too many different things too quickly.
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I think this is a decent point, we've not had a settled team. Even discounting the injuries I think he's been too quick to change it at times.
Friedel, Collins, Downing and Ashley have just about been the only settled picks.
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He's tried to do too many different things too quickly.
I would go along with this. It seems to me that he's tried to implement the correct style of football but without the players to do it, and he vastly over-estimated the abilities of some of the players to adapt.
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I think he does need some support - i am hearing that a few of MON's favourites are determined that he will not succeed (Petrov + Dunne being two very influential players)
I feel that he was thrown in the deepend whern there really was not many decent choices available thanks to the pube head going the way he did also i am hearing that pre season was a joke as MON knew what he was going to do so in fact he did everything he could to fuck us up prior to him going 4 days before the season kicked in. Add to this quite a few players were already told they were surplus (NRC / Beye / Sidders etc) so it was always going to be tough for any manager to enamour them to the club. Add again the spiralling injury list which was as bad as was good all the time under MON and he was on a hiding to nothing.
Now dont get me wrong the Liverpool fiasco regarding the loss and his actions really did not help him with a lot of fans, escpecially with the more precious of our fans "demanding an apology" (I actually feel how Hodgson has grovelled to 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' fans is awful and probably more a sign of the times than anything else)
And then there is luck - or lack of it - it certainly goes against you when you are down here and we have certainly had some shit luck in a lot of games.
There is no excuse for Wed and he should have changed it - it was a poor game but one i felt we would win in 2nd half until Heskey had a rush of blood and then we went into panic mode - i would imagine it would be difficult to make decisions when "our fans" are taking the piss by singing "Sacked in the morning"
Lets not forget we all raved about how free from the shackles our players looked against WHU - then most of commented on how pleasing it was to see our style of gameplay change and especially the fact that he made tactical changes and did not favour the old stages (Did you see the petulance that Petrov did when he was subbed - he would never be captain again for me - he had a shocker yet looked like he was gobsmacked to be taken off).
I feel that the window will make up my mind of Houllier and the board - get this one wrong and we could be in the shit - big style
Although he has made some cock ups - lets not forget why we are here and who put the spoke in the wheels at the start of the season
Have you got proof of this then? I seem to remember Kev Mac saying MON called him before the West Ham game offering him advice. Sounds like the work of a "spiteful" man. It's amazing how many people on here know what happened between MON and the board. Anybody heard MON's version of events yet?
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I don't even think it's that so much as the quote I keep dredging up by one of the team about Venglos: "We used to laugh at the things he got us to do, but every top club does them now."
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I have been saying this since Birmingham at home. Whether his changes will benefit in the long term remain to be seen, but I cant express my annoyance enough at the fact he has tried to do this. Its Bad management.
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I have been saying this since Birmingham at home. Whether his changes will benefit in the long term remain to be seen, but I cant express my annoyance enough at the fact he has tried to do this. Its Bad management.
I can only really bring myself to be annoyed at the arsehole players who are resisting the change.
And a quick apology for the Reo Coker cheap gag last week, I was in a good mood when I posted it.
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I don't even think it's that so much as the quote I keep dredging up by one of the team about Venglos: "We used to laugh at the things he got us to do, but every top club does them now."
Well that's true enough, and that's as much the fault of MON's notoriously, erm, historical approach to match preparation, tactics etc. Wasn't one of the things Venglos was most derided for 'shadow play', where the team would play a 'match' without the ball or the opposition? Everybody does this now, modern positional play relies on it, but players just thought it was daft when it was brought in.
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There has been some extenuating circumstances I agree but even with all our players back we have remained shit.
Well they've had 2 - 3 games at most when they have all been fit, and even then not all have been present, Dunne and Young against Man city so I suppose ignoring the great fight back twice at Chelsea they must be shit.
Lets face it if a manager can't get immediate wins against top opposition within 2 weeks of players with no match fitness being back, he deserves the sack.
Derr, derr.
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I don't even think it's that so much as the quote I keep dredging up by one of the team about Venglos: "We used to laugh at the things he got us to do, but every top club does them now."
Well that's true enough, and that's as much the fault of MON's notoriously, erm, historical approach to match preparation, tactics etc. Wasn't one of the things Venglos was most derided for 'shadow play', where the team would play a 'match' without the ball or the opposition? Everybody does this now, modern positional play relies on it, but players just thought it was daft when it was brought in.
The only one group who know better than players how it should be done when things start going wrong, fans.
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I have been saying this since Birmingham at home. Whether his changes will benefit in the long term remain to be seen, but I cant express my annoyance enough at the fact he has tried to do this. Its Bad management.
I can only really bring myself to be annoyed at the arsehole players who are resisting the change.
And a quick apology for the Reo Coker cheap gag last week, I was in a good mood when I posted it.
Only vaguely remember that too be honest. Thanks! They arent totally blameless, but I think Houllier/the management team more. like I said, I see it as bad management, and a little arrogant, to come in and try to rip things up and start all over so quickly.
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He's tried to do too many different things too quickly.
I agree with that. Furthermore, there was no need to try and implement so many changes. A bit of tweaking was all that was needed for starters.
The thing I am picking up about Houllier and have from when he started is that he doesn't appear bothered about our predicament. It's as though he's thinking this is an alright job, nothing more. That might not be the case but it's the impression I get from him in his interviews and his demeanour. He needs to start showing some passion and somehow convince us that we should get behind him.
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i am 100% behind him whilst he is the manager of aston villa! I support the team, club etc and a few more need to support their team than turning up at the game and venting spleen, slagging off the players and the management! When you are there, support the boys! Come home and moan after, but whilst you are moaning when the game is going on and not behind our lads you are damaging us!
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He's tried to do too many different things too quickly.
I agree with that. Furthermore, there was no need to try and implement so many changes. A bit of tweaking was all that was needed for starters.
The thing I am picking up about Houllier and have from when he started is that he doesn't appear bothered about our predicament. It's as though he's thinking this is an alright job, nothing more. That might not be the case but it's the impression I get from him in his interviews and his demeanour. He needs to start showing some passion and somehow convince us that we should get behind him.
I've been told that about him - nothing seems to get him upset or seem particularly bothered. Maybe he disguises his emotions, or maybe it's a follow-on from his illness - work isn't that important after you almost died.
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He's tried to do too many different things too quickly.
I agree with that. Furthermore, there was no need to try and implement so many changes. A bit of tweaking was all that was needed for starters.
Whilst I agree with you, in reality how was he to know what had gone on previously, especially at Bodymoor Heath, as MON took everybody with him. Houllier had no choice but to set things up his way from Day 1, as the was no continuity in any shape or form from the previous season. Nothing.
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I still don't think there's any excuse for taking the squad of players at our disposal and getting less than a point a game from them. We've got players like Heskey, Dunne, Collins and NRC who have all played for bosses before who like to play more football than O'Neill did.
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Does Houllier actually care?
He said in his press conference he is glad he is part of the 4 managers under real pressure?!
He called it an exclusive club.
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He's tried to do too many different things too quickly.
I agree with that. Furthermore, there was no need to try and implement so many changes. A bit of tweaking was all that was needed for starters.
The thing I am picking up about Houllier and have from when he started is that he doesn't appear bothered about our predicament. It's as though he's thinking this is an alright job, nothing more. That might not be the case but it's the impression I get from him in his interviews and his demeanour. He needs to start showing some passion and somehow convince us that we should get behind him.
I've been told that about him - nothing seems to get him upset or seem particularly bothered.
Yes, we had noticed.
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So now staying calm is a bad thing? If he jumped around and shouted people would moan he was too animated.
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He's tried to do too many different things too quickly.
I agree with that. Furthermore, there was no need to try and implement so many changes. A bit of tweaking was all that was needed for starters.
The thing I am picking up about Houllier and have from when he started is that he doesn't appear bothered about our predicament. It's as though he's thinking this is an alright job, nothing more. That might not be the case but it's the impression I get from him in his interviews and his demeanour. He needs to start showing some passion and somehow convince us that we should get behind him.
I've been told that about him - nothing seems to get him upset or seem particularly bothered.
Yes, we had noticed.
Hadn't we just.
I was never convinced by all MON's jumping around kicking imaginary footballs on the touchline, but Houllier looks like he doesn't give a flying one, and carries it all off with an air of "you should be grateful to have me".
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Good point, instead he should bow down, show he's not worthy and apologise every time he speaks.
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I just watched the interview on Midlands Today.
I quite like the bloke, and the more the mob start digging out their pitchforks, the more I'll get behind him.
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Take a look back to MONs last season how many times did i read on these pages that he was living in the past, that football had past him by, that he only picks his favourites. If you think Houllier has put some players of side look at his predecessor and his spat with NRC and Luke Young then buying players such as Beye and never playing him (how much did that cost us or Randy). I can well imagine when Houllier came he panicked a little when he saw how backward we were and maybe his efforts to modernize put some players noses out of joint. All supposition i know but who knows. What i do know is this, whoever took over managing the squad had an herculian job ahead of him, we were at the start of a decline, Randy had decided that too many players were getting too much money for doing nothing and it had to stop, we had very expensive average players on our books. This is going to be a painfull excersize, a total restructure is under way but if we are to be successful it has to be done.
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He's tried to do too many different things too quickly.
I agree with that. Furthermore, there was no need to try and implement so many changes. A bit of tweaking was all that was needed for starters.
The thing I am picking up about Houllier and have from when he started is that he doesn't appear bothered about our predicament. It's as though he's thinking this is an alright job, nothing more. That might not be the case but it's the impression I get from him in his interviews and his demeanour. He needs to start showing some passion and somehow convince us that we should get behind him.
I've been told that about him - nothing seems to get him upset or seem particularly bothered. Maybe he disguises his emotions, or maybe it's a follow-on from his illness - work isn't that important after you almost died.
Ahh. the almost he nearly died quote, I wondered when that would be trotted out. IMO he aint recovered from that illness and it was lunacy to employ him. At least I have warmed to the fact we may have 2 new full backs that look half decent and can attack and cross a ball.
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Agree with all of that Robbo.
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Pat Nevin's making a good case for the defence on 5live at the moment..
Anyone else listening?
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Robbo. I remember after your first thread comment and me being the first to respond saying that you were a 'brave man" to insitgate such a debate. I wondered what you had started. I feared nothing but abuse.
This has been a brilliant thread.
Thanks. Some very mature and insightful responses. Very unusual.
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Warnock, Sidwell and Carew have all been moved on from top clubs. They all have ability but weren't up to it.
Dunne and Ireland were moved on from Man City when they changed their methods to that of a top club. Perhaps they couldn't adapt.
Maybe Houllier has tried to bring in 'top club methods' and the players are not capable of adapting?
I remember Hughes (whilst at Citeh) saying he'd played for top clubs and knew how they operated, especially in comparison to the smaller clubs. He said to be a 'top' club you have to act like it from the top down. Maybe Houllier demanding that bit extra from the players is an example of this?
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Warnock, Sidwell and Carew have all been moved on from top clubs. They all have ability but weren't up to it.
Dunne and Ireland were moved on from Man City when they changed their methods to that of a top club. Perhaps they couldn't adapt.
Maybe Houllier has tried to bring in 'top club methods' and the players are not capable of adapting?
I remember Hughes (whilst at Citeh) saying he'd played for top clubs and knew how they operated, especially in comparison to the smaller clubs. He said to be a 'top' club you have to act like it from the top down. Maybe Houllier demanding that bit extra from the players is an example of this?
JJ come on. The bloke is a hasbeen. Apart from Fergie and Wenger its a youngs man job now and Houllier is well over the hill. No one respects him, simple.
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......apart from the two most successful managers in history. lol
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Who have been at their clubs for decades lol
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He's tried to do too many different things too quickly.
I agree with that. Furthermore, there was no need to try and implement so many changes. A bit of tweaking was all that was needed for starters.
The thing I am picking up about Houllier and have from when he started is that he doesn't appear bothered about our predicament. It's as though he's thinking this is an alright job, nothing more. That might not be the case but it's the impression I get from him in his interviews and his demeanour. He needs to start showing some passion and somehow convince us that we should get behind him.
I've been told that about him - nothing seems to get him upset or seem particularly bothered. Maybe he disguises his emotions, or maybe it's a follow-on from his illness - work isn't that important after you almost died.
Ahh. the almost he nearly died quote, I wondered when that would be trotted out. IMO he aint recovered from that illness and it was lunacy to employ him.
I'm assuming you're an actual heart specialist to make judgements like that.
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In terms of his demeanor, my girlfriend's dad had a heart attack a few years back and he is a different bloke now. He is so chilled out ,I just think that is a by-product of surviving something like that.
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He's tried to do too many different things too quickly.
I agree with that. Furthermore, there was no need to try and implement so many changes. A bit of tweaking was all that was needed for starters.
The thing I am picking up about Houllier and have from when he started is that he doesn't appear bothered about our predicament. It's as though he's thinking this is an alright job, nothing more. That might not be the case but it's the impression I get from him in his interviews and his demeanour. He needs to start showing some passion and somehow convince us that we should get behind him.
I've been told that about him - nothing seems to get him upset or seem particularly bothered. Maybe he disguises his emotions, or maybe it's a follow-on from his illness - work isn't that important after you almost died.
Ahh. the almost he nearly died quote, I wondered when that would be trotted out. IMO he aint recovered from that illness and it was lunacy to employ him.
I'm assuming you're an actual heart specialist to make judgements like that.
Ok then Paulie he is a spring chick. Get fukin real the bloke had major heart surgery then nearly killed himself again carrying on as manager at Liverpool, then failed at Lyon. 6 years on he is expected to sort the shambles ONiell left.
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He won Ligue One twice at Lyon.
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Yeah and he played Ashley Young as Centre half for the last 10 minutes against Sunderland.
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Pat Nevin's making a good case for the defence on 5live at the moment..
Anyone else listening?
No what did he say?
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Yeah and he played Ashley Young as Centre half for the last 10 minutes against Sunderland.
Do you really think he told Young to go play there?
it dosent look good either way
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Pat Nevin's making a good case for the defence on 5live at the moment..
Anyone else listening?
No what did he say?
I listened,the jist of what he said, it was unrealistic for a new manager to take over a club and not experience some problems
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Yeah and he played Ashley Young as Centre half for the last 10 minutes against Sunderland.
Do you really think he told Young to go play there?
it dosent look good either way
Exactly. Who knows whats going on in our biggest game of the season. Under pressure he fukin lost it. Richard Dunne who he fucked off in the last few games was suddenly our saviour up front. I personally think Ashley Young is doing what he pleases.
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Yeah and he played Ashley Young as Centre half for the last 10 minutes against Sunderland.
Love the complete sillyness of this post. The team pushed forward to get an equaliser, using the two big men to get knock downs. Young is creator, and often drops deep to instigate the play. Last season in the Uefa cup when losing he was playing the same position to get the ball forward and try and create with others in front of him.
Houlier is a really tough one. I really like the bloke for some reason, maybe it is the calm and the thinking, but for me he lacks an attack dog to do his shouting. He knows football and how top clubs should be run better than anyone else we could get though, and clearly has a handle on the issues behind the scenes that are not in place to make us successful. I also think his strategy of getting fullbacks in straight away shows recognition of the weakness in the modern game of not having good players in those roles.
However it is clear some players are simply not going to take to him, and that is hard to accept when they are paid so much money, it is like the kids thinking they know better, or Roy Keane storming out of the world cup for Ireland because of the training not being as he liked. I just think those that are being a barrier too him have too much ear in the dressing room it would appear, so need to be moved on as soon as possible.
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Take a look back to MONs last season how many times did i read on these pages that he was living in the past, that football had past him by, that he only picks his favourites. If you think Houllier has put some players of side look at his predecessor and his spat with NRC and Luke Young then buying players such as Beye and never playing him (how much did that cost us or Randy). I can well imagine when Houllier came he panicked a little when he saw how backward we were and maybe his efforts to modernize put some players noses out of joint. All supposition i know but who knows. What i do know is this, whoever took over managing the squad had an herculian job ahead of him, we were at the start of a decline, Randy had decided that too many players were getting too much money for doing nothing and it had to stop, we had very expensive average players on our books. This is going to be a painfull excersize, a total restructure is under way but if we are to be successful it has to be done.
I can't argue with a word of that Robbo. And all these years I've had you down as a miserable bugger. Please accept my sincere apologies.
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Yeah and he played Ashley Young as Centre half for the last 10 minutes against Sunderland.
Do you really think he told Young to go play there?
it dosent look good either way
Exactly. Who knows whats going on in our biggest game of the season. Under pressure he fukin lost it. Richard Dunne who he fucked off in the last few games was suddenly our saviour up front. I personally think Ashley Young is doing what he pleases.
Manchester United won the Champions League doing just that. A goal down, two minutes to go, throw everybody forward and hope something happens.
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Yeah and he played Ashley Young as Centre half for the last 10 minutes against Sunderland.
Do you really think he told Young to go play there?
it dosent look good either way
Exactly. Who knows whats going on in our biggest game of the season. Under pressure he fukin lost it. Richard Dunne who he fucked off in the last few games was suddenly our saviour up front. I personally think Ashley Young is doing what he pleases.
Manchester United won the Champions League doing just that. A goal down, two minutes to go, throw everybody forward and hope something happens.
Correct. But didnt they have 2 strikers up front. We had Dunne and Collins, who by the way where fukin rubbish for the whole half.
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They had Bruce and Pallister in the box, oh and the keeper.
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They had Bruce and Pallister in the box, oh and the keeper.
Sheringham and solkjear. We had Dunne and Collins.
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They had Bruce and Pallister in the box, oh and the keeper.
Sheringham and solkjear. We had Dunne and Collins.
Who had as much chance of scoring as anyone.
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Manchester United won the Champions League doing just that. A goal down, two minutes to go, throw everybody forward and hope something happens.
Not really the same. They forced two corners, one of which Schmeichel went up for. They scored from both of them.
Much more relevant was the fact that United sent on two forwards, Sheringham and Solskjaer, with enough time for both of them to make an impact. They of course scored the goals. Bit different from sending two midfielders on a minute from time.
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Cause we have 2 forwards in our squad of that quality. Oh no, sorry, Martin didn't do forwards.
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They had Bruce and Pallister in the box, oh and the keeper.
Sheringham and solkjear. We had Dunne and Collins.
Who had as much chance of scoring as anyone.
Dave your fuking kidding yourself. It was a circus for the last 10 minutes. Yes we had 10 men but i want a man who can react under pressure and Gerrard Houllier aint that bloke. Collins and Dunne aint hit a barn door this season and were fuking shocking for the 2nd half. Your telling me that Young,Gabby,Fonz wouldnt have had more chance to score in the last few minutes? We could have had Pires but he was still climbing out of his wheel chair.
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Yeah and he played Ashley Young as Centre half for the last 10 minutes against Sunderland.
Do you really think he told Young to go play there?
it dosent look good either way
Exactly. Who knows whats going on in our biggest game of the season. Under pressure he fukin lost it. Richard Dunne who he fucked off in the last few games was suddenly our saviour up front. I personally think Ashley Young is doing what he pleases.
Manchester United won the Champions League doing just that. A goal down, two minutes to go, throw everybody forward and hope something happens.
Sam Allidyce's teams play that way every week.
But it was pathetic having 'one of our strikers' telling Freidel to go away and taking a free kick in our own half.
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They had Bruce and Pallister in the box, oh and the keeper.
Sheringham and solkjear. We had Dunne and Collins.
Who had as much chance of scoring as anyone.
Dave your fuking kidding yourself. It was a circus for the last 10 minutes. Yes we had 10 men but i want a man who can react under pressure and Gerrard Houllier aint that bloke. Collins and Dunne aint hit a barn door this season and were fuking shocking for the 2nd half. Your telling me that Young,Gabby,Fonz wouldnt have had more chance to score in the last few minutes? We could have had Pires but he was still climbing out of his wheel chair.
The only goal of that game. Remind me who it was scored by and his goalscoring record.
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They had Bruce and Pallister in the box, oh and the keeper.
Sheringham and solkjear. We had Dunne and Collins.
Who had as much chance of scoring as anyone.
Dave your fuking kidding yourself. It was a circus for the last 10 minutes. Yes we had 10 men but i want a man who can react under pressure and Gerrard Houllier aint that bloke. Collins and Dunne aint hit a barn door this season and were fuking shocking for the 2nd half. Your telling me that Young,Gabby,Fonz wouldnt have had more chance to score in the last few minutes? We could have had Pires but he was still climbing out of his wheel chair.
The only goal of that game. Remind me who it was scored by and his goalscoring record.
They had Bruce and Pallister in the box, oh and the keeper.
Sheringham and solkjear. We had Dunne and Collins.
Who had as much chance of scoring as anyone.
Dave your fuking kidding yourself. It was a circus for the last 10 minutes. Yes we had 10 men but i want a man who can react under pressure and Gerrard Houllier aint that bloke. Collins and Dunne aint hit a barn door this season and were fuking shocking for the 2nd half. Your telling me that Young,Gabby,Fonz wouldnt have had more chance to score in the last few minutes? We could have had Pires but he was still climbing out of his wheel chair.
The only goal of that game. Remind me who it was scored by and his goalscoring record.
?, They had 3 strikers on the pitch at that time as well.
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And a defender scored his first goal for years. Of course, we might not have been in that position had a certain forward not scooped the ball over from eighteen inches (approx) then got sent off.
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And been our best player before hand.
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And been our best player before hand.
Which makes it even more infuriating.
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And a defender scored his first goal for years. Of course, we might not have been in that position had a certain forward not scooped the ball over from eighteen inches (approx) then got sent off.
Heskey was brilliant and not only missed a sitter but let us down by being sent off. It was was up to our manager to show his metal after that and he showed nothing. Albrighton,Fonz etc there where lots of changes that could have happened. I travel tomorrow to Sheffield with little hope but will still enjoy it.
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I agree that he should have brought someone on after they scored. But in the last minutes it doesn't matter who's up front because they all have an equal chance of scoring. Except possibly Tony Cascarino.
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The problem is we expect him to sort this mess out in 3 months?? Dunn was playing rubbish so he got droped which we all agreed with then 3 weeks later everyone has a go at GH for not playing him???
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Yeah and he played Ashley Young as Centre half for the last 10 minutes against Sunderland.
And at one point Barry Bannan was alongside him!
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For me the title of this thread says it all. People continue to defend Houllier looking at his previous track record which is good but happens to be years ago. He is old and has health issues, oh and half the squad dont want to play for him. For me a young vibrant manager like Lambert would shake these over paid wankers up and give new ideas. He would be on half the wage as well something our owner would approve of.
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There are several reasons to defend the manager apart from his record - finding a replacement being the biggest. I'd also love to know why Randy has gone from philanthropist to supposed miser.
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There are several reasons to defend the manager apart from his record - finding a replacement being the biggest. I'd also love to know why Randy has gone from philanthropist to supposed miser.
So would I.
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There are several reasons to defend the manager apart from his record - finding a replacement being the biggest. I'd also love to know why Randy has gone from philanthropist to supposed miser.
Paying Players who have hardly played £40k a week can be the only reason. Something which Lerner let our previous manager do.
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There are several reasons to defend the manager apart from his record - finding a replacement being the biggest. I'd also love to know why Randy has gone from philanthropist to supposed miser.
Paying Players who have hardly played £40k a week can be the only reason. Something which Lerner let our previous manager do.
The optimum word being 'supposed.' There's this perceived idea that he doesn't want to spend/wants to get money back. There's as yet no proof of it.
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There are several reasons to defend the manager apart from his record - finding a replacement being the biggest. I'd also love to know why Randy has gone from philanthropist to supposed miser.
Paying Players who have hardly played £40k a week can be the only reason. Something which Lerner let our previous manager do.
The optimum word being 'supposed.' There's this perceived idea that he doesn't want to spend/wants to get money back. There's as yet no proof of it.
The Curtis davies situation sums up where we are . Big fee aint playing for us, little return and rumours he cant play another game as his contract needs to be improved. Not Houlliers fault i accept.
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Other than selling Milner.
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The Curtis davies situation sums up where we are . Big fee aint playing for us, little return and rumours he cant play another game as his contract needs to be improved. Not Houlliers fault i accept.
Rumours that have been flatly denied on more than one occasion.
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Other than selling Milner.
How many clubs in the country do you think would have been able to keep Milner?
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And a defender scored his first goal for years. Of course, we might not have been in that position had a certain forward not scooped the ball over from eighteen inches (approx) then got sent off.
That is true but it doesn't tell the full story.
For practically the entire match, we were insipid, disorganised, totally shapeless, unable to stop giving the ball away, and generally looked like we had not the first idea of what we were meant to be doing. It was as dispirited and shambolic a performance as I've seen for a long time.
One shot on target against Sunderland (who themselves looked rubbish) at home says it all.
Had that match come in any average run of games, it would have been deeply disappointing to see, but coming after finally showing a bit of spirit at Chelsea, it was doubly depressing.
In the earlier part of his reign, when we were not getting results, and he was getting stick, I could frequenty see plenty of positives. Not just the obvious example, Man United, but also Fulham away, when we were very good, Stoke away when for long spells we played some excellent stuff.
The problem is that, with the exception of Chelsea - and let's not forget, we very, very nearly conspired to get fuck all from that - for a long time now, I haven't been able to take a single positive from our performances, something to make me feel it is getting better. In fact, we seem to be getting worse - and this at a time when we're getting the injured players all back.
It is a horrible situation. I said for a while that sacking him now would be madness, with the timing re the transfer window, but it is so bad, and clearly getting worse on the pitch and not to mention off it with all the bitching and discord, that I am now thinking we'd be better off without him, and with some randomly chosen caretaker in for the rest of the season.
That's clearly not going to happen, though, so the board absolutely must, must back him in the window. Backing him to stay without putting money up is not fair on him or on us and the club, as it'll end in one way.
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And a defender scored his first goal for years. Of course, we might not have been in that position had a certain forward not scooped the ball over from eighteen inches (approx) then got sent off.
That is true but it doesn't tell the full story.
For practically the entire match, we were insipid, disorganised, totally shapeless, unable to stop giving the ball away, and generally looked like we had not the first idea of what we were meant to be doing. It was as dispirited and shambolic a performance as I've seen for a long time.
One shot on target against Sunderland (who themselves looked rubbish) at home says it all.
Had that match come in any average run of games, it would have been deeply disappointing to see, but coming after finally showing a bit of spirit at Chelsea, it was doubly depressing.
Doubly agreed.
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Other than selling Milner.
How many clubs in the country do you think would have been able to keep Milner?
Villa could have kept Milner like they are keeping Ashley Young(for how long is unkown). Lerner decided to sell and as it has turned out got a poor deal.
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Other than selling Milner.
How many clubs in the country do you think would have been able to keep Milner?
Villa could have kept Milner like they are keeping Ashley Young(for how long is unkown). Lerner decided to sell and as it has turned out got a poor deal.
There's been no offers for Young. The richest club in the world wanted Milner, he wanted to go.
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Yes, GH has some mitigating circumstances, but no way he can be absolved.
The fact that you haven't chosen the players doesn't mean that you must be relegated with a team that has the qualities to be in the left side of the table.
If that happens you can't absolve the manager.
When Arsène Wenger was appointed for Arsenal in November or December 1996 he hadn't chosen the team, but he soon left his imprinting on the squad.
Viceversa, in three months GH literally destroyed the team.
I have never seen a team running adrift like we are doing.
Every opponent scores against us with trifling easiness, all the formations that GH played are wrong, illogical, incomprehensible.
It's GH, not me, that plays four central defenders against an average team like Sunderland at home;
that plays the awful pair Dunne & Collins in the starting XI;
that leaves our best player Super Mark Albrighton on the bench;
that leaves our second best player Barry Bannan on the bench;
that plays Cjeran Clark out of role;
that plays our best and only striker Gabby Agbonlahor substantially as a full back.
These choices have nothing to do with the fact that GH couldn't build the team that he has in mind, they only show that he doesn't know what he's doing.
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Keeping hold of a player who has not asked to leave with no solid interest and keeping hold of a player who has asked to leave with another team interested is quite different scenarios I reckon?
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Other than selling Milner.
How many clubs in the country do you think would have been able to keep Milner?
Villa could have kept Milner like they are keeping Ashley Young(for how long is unkown). Lerner decided to sell and as it has turned out got a poor deal.
There's been no offers for Young. The richest club in the world wanted Milner, he wanted to go.
Dave come on, there have been offers for Youngy. Both to the club and his agents i would imagine. Isnt he doing what Milner did to us before the world cup?
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Dave come on, there have been offers for Youngy. Both to the club and his agents i would imagine. Isnt he doing what Milner did to us before the world cup?
Have I missed something? Serious question, because I've not read of any firm offers for Young. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but I do know that City wanted Milner and at the time £26 million seemed a cracking deal.
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Young is a target but we wont sell him in January, the club has made that clear, he will be gone in the summer
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Back to Houllier in Jamie Carragher's autobiography Carragher states that "Houllier arrived with a plan to confront what he perceived as the strongest,most disruptive personalities at the club".One of these being Paul Ince,for Ince read Petrov,Petrov was only subbed by O'Neill once,now his position is being questioned he doesn't like being out of his comfort zone.
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how do you equte Ince with Petrov? Petrov remains the captain
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It's all MON's fault or so I'm told.
In defence of Gerard Houllier, he hasn't thrown the towel which he could have easily done by now. He doesn't need the job or the money. I just hope to buggery that he can inspire the team out of this mess.
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Houllier was dealt a very poor hand. but he also, it seems, has made some mistakes.
Perhaps the biggest is starting at the wrong end. He has tried to improve passing and movement. The only result is some passages of encouraging football, not lasting long enough to improve results in any match. Most modern football managers know that the first step in building a successful football team is to have a mean defence. A good, well-organised defence improves confidence. The team knows that it has a chance to win, even without having to score three or four goals every match.
It seems as if Houllier thought, seeing our defensive record from last season, that our defence was solid. But our defensive performance last season was reliant on Warnock and Dunne playing some of their best football of their career. This season they haven't been close to that. Warnock has been shocking at times, and Dunne unfit and underperforming.
I must admit that results and performances under Houllier has followed a different trajectory thus far as to what I expected. I thought he would start by emphasising defensive work, leading to a lot of 0-0, 1-0 and 0-1 and supporters complaining about boring, unimaginative football. Instead, we have been leaking goals left, right and centre.
A second mistake is that he, seemingly, has tried to implement changes too quickly. As a result, again seemingly, he has alienated a lot of players in the squad.
I would say that our poor performances and results this season are down to: the sale of Milner, no strengthening in the transfer window, Dunne's loss of form, MON's untimely exit, a horrendous injury list, players being too unprofessional to adapt to Houllier's new regime, but, first and foremostly, a monstrous drop in confidence. The latter is due to poor results but also our poor defence. Now that senior players are coming back from injury we still have to deal with this.
My opinion is that Houllier is only partly to blame for our problems this season, and that it would be premature to sack him now. But, after all, he is the man responsible for results, and you have to ask how long a manager can go on without winning matches. Generally, when things are not working, you have to try and change something -- not necessarily because it's the right change, but because you have to stop the feeling that you are going nowhere (or heading towards relegation). Sacking the manager, in my opinion, is too drastic a change unless the situation is approaching desperate.
Looking at the fixture list, it is easy to find oneself wondering where the next three points will come. If we go through January without a win, our confidence will be shattered, and we could find it difficult to win home games in February that should be considered easy. If we enter March and still are stuck in the relegation zone, I would say that the situation is approaching desperate.
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"The richest club in the world wanted Milner" At the time they also wanted Torres, Arteta, and Modric, who was the only one they got?
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"The richest club in the world wanted Milner" At the time they also wanted Torres, Arteta, and Modric, who was the only one they got?
"Wanted" or "were linked with"?
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how do you equte Ince with Petrov? Petrov remains the captain
When Houllier joined Liverpool Ince was the captain.I'm just comparing early days at both clubs.
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Other than selling Milner.
How many clubs in the country do you think would have been able to keep Milner?
Villa could have kept Milner like they are keeping Ashley Young(for how long is unkown). Lerner decided to sell and as it has turned out got a poor deal.
sorry mate... bollocks.. milner wanted to go .... it took him seconds to make up his mind when man shitty came in... it pisses me off when I hear Lerner decided to sell....
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JJ made a post a few pages back (sorry I can't quote from my phone) that, in my opinion, was bang on. I suspect that Houllier has brought a lot of big-club mentality and methods with him that many players are struggling to come to terms with.
Either that or the simply don't want to come to terms with and would much rathere instigate a revolt that sees Houllier out the door and a return of the easy life they had under Walford and Robinson - a coaching regime stuck in the 70's.
I also suspect that many of our players were happy with being putting in a half arsed effort for full arsed pay and, now having to actually really work for the pay they get, are not at all happy.
Perhaps there's an attitude that, as they'll never get to the kind of technical standards that teams like Arsenal have, why bother even trying? Well, maybe Randy shouldn't bother trying so hard to add that last zero on their pay cheques!
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Who cares what they do in training as long as we get results on the pitch !!
Last year we were top six, got to a cup final and a semi under robbo and walfords training regime
Not too shabby
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Who cares what they do in training? I fucking do! I don't want year on year of 6th place and the occassional cup final fuck up. We're better than that. And if it means ripping the arse out of the current squad and starting from scratch to do it, fine.
Is this what's happening though? That's the question. Only time will tell.
I didn't want to get into the Milner debate as it's not really relevant to this thread but, having thought about it some more, I think it is. In a roundabout sort of way.
And that roundabout is Man Utd and Ronaldo. He wanted away. They were offered stupid money. A deal was done. Not for footballing reasons either. That was so help balance the books a little. Many said that they'd not recover. That he wouldn't/couldn't be replaced. And he wasn't. But they did.
How?
Because the mentality of that club seems (from the outside at least) that players give everything they have. In training. On matchday. That the boss is the boss. Player power is certainly evident there - you only have to look at the Rooney situation to see that - but I also think that rooney is well aware of who the boss is and, regardless of the enormous money he's on, he'll still have to justify his place in the team. Still have to fight for his spot and still feel the blast of the famous hair dryer when he fucks up.
Perhaps Houllier is trying to bring this into Villa Park. The resistance is inevitable. But will it be long lasting?
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Who cares what they do in training? I fucking do! I don't want year on year of 6th place and the occassional cup final fuck up. We're better than that.
I'd quite happily take that now :-)
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I get that. But that comes down to a 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' attitude. And it was broke. And it was going to get worse.
I can't picture that Houllier sold himself to Randy as a hard man that'd shake the squad up and knock them into shape. I think he would have sold himself on technical excellence. Someone like a poor mans Mourinho if you like. That he'll put plans in place for a new training regime, new tactics and new plans and then sit back with the expectation of having two technically gifted coaches fulfill those expectations. Maybe the coaching balance is wrong. Both Sid and Mac seem like nice blokes. Maybe a bastard was needed in there.
What would our attitudes be if Houllier came out tomorrow and said that he's fired McAllister because he failed to deliver on his brief? It'd certainly put a new spin on things.
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"Because the mentality of that club seems (from the outside at least) that players give everything they have. In training. On matchday. That the boss is the boss. Player power is certainly evident there - you only have to look at the Rooney situation to see that - but I also think that rooney is well aware of who the boss is and, regardless of the enormous money he's on, he'll still have to justify his place in the team. Still have to fight for his spot and still feel the blast of the famous hair dryer when he fucks up.
Perhaps Houllier is trying to bring this into Villa Park. The resistance is inevitable. But will it be long lasting?"
But herein lies the point: do the Villa players have any respect for GH. Do they know who is Boss?
It doesn't look like it. As for GH or RL firing McAllister- well I think it would be the best thing he could do, it would also send a strong message of his power and certainly gain the support of a number of senior players.
Politically it would draw a liine under this mess too, give him a fresh start.
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Lets go back to the time when we had a stoush with Liverpool over Barry, what was Barrys main gripe? he wanted to play on the European stage and had decided that the quality of personel that MON was bringing to the club was not going to get us there. Forward to Milner, he had decided to go long before MON walked out on us. MON bought Ashley Young as a prospect that worked out but i am hard pressed to name any other player that would get me at the edge of my seat. I say again we were already in decline at the end of last season MON could see that and with no more money to spend decided to get out and preserve his reputation. What we are now seeing is a manager trying to turn a club around that has been badly mismanaged for at least two years. For all the money at his disposal MON has left us bankrupt in playing ability.
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You make some excellent points Troy.
It's also true to say that Ferguson -the most successful manager of this era- encountered a fair degree of resistance when he first arrived.
Crucially though, he had enough players onside. Players like Bryan Robson, Kevin Moran, Clayton Blackmore and co who bought into his method and philosophy. I'm not sure Gerard is in the same position.
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Sorry Robbo but I don't agree with any of that. Finishing sixth, a cup final and a semi final are not symptoms of two years of mis management. We had established a strong position from which to push on but then financial considerations took precedence over footballing ones and the manager walked off in a huff.
I have stuck up for Houllier but his inability and seeming unwillingness to change things the other night make me wonder whether he has got in him. I accepted that this would be transitional season but I am starting to become concerned that he just isn't up to it.
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Uh oh. A Chris Smith thumbs down is a more damning indictment than the dreaded vote of confidence.
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I agree with Robbo as far as MON is concerned, but that doesn't mean that GH isn't destroying our team with his absurd choices, his incomprehensible tactics and and quarelling with half a team.
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I tell you what all this player power if true really gets to me more than anything else.
These players need to take stock, look at there surroundings, look at the club they are at, look at the history of that club, look at the fans who take part, whether its coming to matches, following from afar, spending money on merchandise or just taking an interest in the club.
These players need to show some bloody respect to Aston Villa and bury any differences they may have on a personal level and get on with the job in hand. If Houllier needs to ship any of these "said" trouble makers lets hope he does quick.
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If anything we are playing worse than we were under MON so with the same players we have gone backwards we need him to get the players motivated which i doubt GH is capable of so as much as i will be back our manager whoever he is because i want him to do his best for the Villa and at the moment he is'nt doing it.
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I give credit to MON for getting avarage players to play above themselves in a structure tailor made to their capabilities, unfortunately it doesn't last. i wholeheartedly agree that there is no room at Villa Park for players whe deem their self importance should come before the welfare of the club, unfortunately we can't get rid of them all at the same time.
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Uh oh. A Chris Smith thumbs down is a more damning indictment than the dreaded vote of confidence.
With respect to Chris, as a management barometer I can't really take him seriously.
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Uh oh. A Chris Smith thumbs down is a more damning indictment than the dreaded vote of confidence.
With respect to Chris, as a management barometer I can't really take him seriously.
The real portent of trouble times ahead is when Chris and the Gnasher start agreeing on things. There's probably a verse or two in Revelations somewhere.
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To be frank I think a statement needs to be made by the club in terms of money to support the manager. We haven't spent anything for a long time now.
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What a Carson Yeung style we'll be spending £40 million by Tuesday style statement, or the statements already made by Krulak & Faulkner stating there is money to spend. Maybe a weekly publishing of a mini statement from the club's bank account.
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Actions speak louder than words in most things in life and transfer windows are no different.
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Oz and Karl are both right. Only buying 2-3 players will show financial commitment that some fans want, although I also agree with the club exploiting the loan system at the moment because it reduces the long term liability for the club and then signing players on permanent deals in May/ June.
Making a statement each week, after Faulkner said 10 days ago we would back Houlier in the market, is a silly waste of time, and simply alerts clubs that the manager has cash to spend, and disappoints fans when a very, very complex deals falls through.
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What a Carson Yeung style we'll be spending £40 million by Tuesday style statement, or the statements already made by Krulak & Faulkner stating there is money to spend. Maybe a weekly publishing of a mini statement from the club's bank account.
They have spent £40m over the last 2 summers.
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In GH defence - I think MON knew we would be in this position and is one of the main reasons he walked.
He knew he was losing his most effectual player (Milner), he knew the defence was on the verge of imploding (otherwise why allow Dunne to come back so unfit), he knew his Captain was coming to the end of his influence and stamina and most importantly, he knew that no more players could be bought until the upcoming deadwood had been sold.
No matter who we have at the helm, until they have their players, (currently the only players you could say are GH's are the kids - have they disappointed?), we are stuck in the mire.
I would propose the Club knows it, the present Manager knows it and also our previous Manager knew it.
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In GH defence - I think MON knew we would be in this position and is one of the main reasons he walked.
He knew he was losing his most effectual player (Milner), he knew the defence was on the verge of imploding (otherwise why allow Dunne to come back so unfit), he knew his Captain was coming to the end of his influence and stamina and most importantly, he knew that no more players could be bought until the upcoming deadwood had been sold.
No matter who we have at the helm, until they have their players, (currently the only players you could say are GH's are the kids - have they disappointed?), we are stuck in the mire.
I would propose the Club knows it, the present Manager knows it and also our previous Manager knew it.
You really beleive if MON had stayed we'd be where we are now???? Come on, we may have slipped but we wouldn't be in this mess.
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I give credit to MON for getting avarage players to play above themselves in a structure tailor made to their capabilities, unfortunately it doesn't last. i wholeheartedly agree that there is no room at Villa Park for players whe deem their self importance should come before the welfare of the club, unfortunately we can't get rid of them all at the same time.
You say average, but he got us the best he could. Downing, Dunne, Young, Carew, Sidwell, Cuellar, Milner & Heskey would've been bought by every other team in the Premier League, bar the top few teams.
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Phil Thompson just gave a stout defence of GH on sky (well he would wouldn't he?). There seemed to be agreement between the panel that MON ran a very lax ship at villa and that the culture and philosophy was just wrong. That MON only was concerned with his first eleven, giving them days off and letting them live where they want. Pretty much what we all knew. I agree it needed to change but I still think GH tried to put his mark on things too quickly. No point going forward two steps if we go back an age by getting relegated. Gradual change is best.
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As Robbo states in his first post Houllier hasn't had much go right for him from day one.Would things be so different if we had a fully fit Fabian Delph? This guy can tackle,score goals and can pass "forward" no problem.Compare and contrast to Petrov,he is way past his best,no way a 90 minute player,when he does tackle he doesn't have the engine to power away from his opponent,his goalscoring and "attempts" are woeful.More games for Fabian and to be a regular first teamer would be good for Villa and good for Houllier.Can't happen quick enough for me.
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Excellent post Eig, I think you covered everything with the exception of the players mentality towards Houllier.
I tell you what all this player power if true really gets to me more than anything else.
These players need to show some bloody respect to Aston Villa and bury any differences they may have on a personal level and get on with the job in hand. If Houllier needs to ship any of these "said" trouble makers lets hope he does quick.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, I don't think it's a case of Houllier losing the dressing room for the simple reason he's never had it in the first place.
There does appear to be factions within the squad and we're not going to turn things around until this problem is resolved. I heard Mourinho yesterday saying how he never had to teach Terry how to head a ball, Essien how to tackle or Drogna how to score. His job was to get the players working as a team, respecting each other both on and off the pitch, all working together for the same cause.
Player power is one of the worst things about modern football and the players need to abandon their selfish agendas and focus on what they're paid to do. Obviously Houllier needs to show some leadership but he can only do that with players that are prepared to listen. Those that won't need to leave, no matter who they are. Nobody is bigger than the club and that goes for players as well as managers.
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I do agree with this too much too soon idea.
If I was in charge I'd be nice to all the players whilst bringing about incremental change and planning to sell most of them in the summer behind their backs.
I make no secret of the fact that the Sunderland game has lead to me losing much of my faith in Houllier but I don't foresee the decision makers at the club doing so. The true test will be if whether he can get in some new players and start to turn things around. New players might be a spur to things being turned around.
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You really beleive if MON had stayed we'd be where we are now???? Come on, we may have slipped but we wouldn't be in this mess.
I don't think we'd have been much better off; he would have had to play the kids due to injuries and his record with just the kids is much the same as what we are seeing now. Remember the cup exits?
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Just seen the first half of the Blades game, the man is improving, he has understood that Bannan and Albrighton stay better on the pitch than on the bench, and also to play a full back as a right back helps. To play in eleven instead than with the shadow of Robert Pires would help too. . .
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I was fairly neutral about his appointment, could have been better, could have been a lot worse. I really liked the way he tried to get us to play a more passing game and was willing to trust some of the younger players. Up to the Man Yoo game it seemed to be working and we were playing some good stuff.
However a combination of factors have conspired to bugger things up. Some, like extended injury lists, bad attitudes of some players, and the fact he was saddled with plenty of ageing, technically mediocre, overpaid players, are not his fault. But he has to take responsibility for other problems - trying to change things too quickly, not getting the players on board with what he is trying to do, alienating many fans with that disgraceful show on and off the pitch at Anfield, and his often poorly judged comments in the media. I wouldn't say the shambolic defence is all his fault, we shipped 6 at far from mighty Newcastle before he rocked up, so the rot was already setting in then - but he's done little to correct it.
I still feel he can keep us up if he is allowed to bring in a few of his own players, but I do get the impression he is not taking the job serioulsy enough, a kind of "oh well it's only Villa" attitude. I think he needs to appreciate Aston Villa Fc more and the size of the job he has taken on and pull his bloody finger out.
This
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You really beleive if MON had stayed we'd be where we are now???? Come on, we may have slipped but we wouldn't be in this mess.
I don't think we'd have been much better off; he would have had to play the kids due to injuries and his record with just the kids is much the same as what we are seeing now. Remember the cup exits?
Do you think a MON team would have had the same lack of fight as the current team?
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You really beleive if MON had stayed we'd be where we are now???? Come on, we may have slipped but we wouldn't be in this mess.
I don't think we'd have been much better off; he would have had to play the kids due to injuries and his record with just the kids is much the same as what we are seeing now. Remember the cup exits?
Do you think a MON team would have had the same lack of fight as the current team?
i witnessed the 7-1 defeat at chelsea, but i think MON s strongest attribute was that he did motivate players in a way that GH has failed so far to demonstrate
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i am going to nail my colours to the mast. Ged is in for the long haul, i will support him. The football is better than mon already without the results yet! majorchanges have needed to be made and i thnk ged will get it right
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I do think he needs to get three or four in right now. The psychology of the team needs to change not just on the pitch but in the change rooms. I believe he has far more understanding of what makes a successful side and the quality of player needed to bring success than MON ever did. Over the next twelve months the squad will not be recognisable to the one we have now. Randy will back him financially if he can see the improvement coming through.
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Pleased we won today, but didn't see anything to suggest that we're going to improve in the league.
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Think he has a dilema with A Young. He looked like he thought he was a superstar today. But other than Pires was the most ineffective Villa player. Think he has got a big decision to make either now or the summer. I think we should take the money .........
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Pleased we won today, but didn't see anything to suggest that we're going to improve in the league.
I did. If Ged can get 11 players on the pitch to be professional and play to their abilities we will win more than we lose. Yesterday I saw more playing without that meh attitude that we have seen at Liverpool and Man City at home to Sunderland and other games too. Hopefully more players are becoming willing to adapt and earn their stupid mega money. Walker is another to play with a positive attitude. One or two more new players to go along side Clark, Albrighton, Downing, Young, Carlos et al and we will be fine.
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Do you think a MON team would have had the same lack of fight as the current team?
Maybe a bit more fight, but I still think we would still be at the same end of the table.
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Do you think a MON team would have had the same lack of fight as the current team?
Probably not, but it's all hypothetical. According to several sources, MON seemed to have lost interest some time during the summer (possibly when he was overlooked for the Liverpool job). I don't think a disinterested MON would have had us pushing for top six.
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After todays developments how many fervent anti Houllier posters want him sacked now, we are starting the dream that Lerner envisaged for us, it's just been delayed for five years.
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After todays developments how many fervent anti Houllier posters want him sacked now, we are starting the dream that Lerner envisaged for us, it's just been delayed for five years.
How many 'just one more windows' was O'Neill given? Over and over again we heard it.
I am confident that Houllier will do a good job for us. Normally, I would have been calling for the sack. However, I think he will sort it, given half a chance.
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Signing players is only half the battle. They have to perform as well.
It is still down to one thing and that is results. Houllier has been backed by the club and now needs repay that faith.
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I thought that he seemed an intelligent man, quiet and thoughtful with it. This Bent business may cause me to think again.
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Yes. Clearly buying the third best goalscorer over the last 5 years when we're struggling to score goals is the reckless act of a madman. We would have been better off spending the money painting all those light blue seats claret so they don't show up so badly when unoccupied.
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Yes. Clearly buying the third best goalscorer over the last 5 years when we're struggling to score goals is the reckless act of a madman. We would have been better off spending the money painting all those light blue seats claret so they don't show up so badly when unoccupied.
Typical hysteria.
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Yes. Clearly buying the third best goalscorer over the last 5 years when we're struggling to score goals is the reckless act of a madman. We would have been better off spending the money painting all those light blue seats claret so they don't show up so badly when unoccupied.
Typical hysteria.
Typical of what? Your last two comments have been:
"I thought that he seemed an intelligent man, quiet and thoughtful with it. This Bent business may cause me to think again."
"Would anyone else be more than happy if this deal fails to go through?"
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Despite the very good transfers of Walker and Bent I still don't like the current manager. Don't like his tactics, and clueless football. Hell of a lot needs to change in team behaviour and results before I could consider changing my mind.
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Whilst I'm pleased that we are addressing the problems with the squad, I hope we don't fall into the old Newcastle trick of glorifying players before they have kicked a ball. Welcome is one thing, worship is premature.
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Whilst I'm pleased that we are addressing the problems with the squad, I hope we don't fall into the old Newcastle trick of glorifying players before they have kicked a ball. Welcome is one thing, worship is premature.
You mean you're not going down to the ground to chant his name and get on the tele?
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Whilst I'm pleased that we are addressing the problems with the squad, I hope we don't fall into the old Newcastle trick of glorifying players before they have kicked a ball. Welcome is one thing, worship is premature.
I'm not trying to glorify him. As a footballer I think his general play is at most average, but his record as a goalscorer is amazing and as such I reserve the right to be optimistic (rather than hysterical).
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Whilst I'm pleased that we are addressing the problems with the squad, I hope we don't fall into the old Newcastle trick of glorifying players before they have kicked a ball. Welcome is one thing, worship is premature.
I'm not trying to glorify him. As a footballer I think his general play is at most average, but his record as a goalscorer is amazing and as such I reserve the right to be optimistic (rather than hysterical).
It was a general comment rather than one aimed at anything you have said, but I'm also optimistic. With the cash we have, and are about to splash out, relegation would be catastrophic not to mention humiliating.
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Whilst I'm pleased that we are addressing the problems with the squad, I hope we don't fall into the old Newcastle trick of glorifying players before they have kicked a ball. Welcome is one thing, worship is premature.
You mean you're not going down to the ground to chant his name and get on the tele?
I'm going down there to suggest we should have signed Kenny Miller instead.
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Whilst I'm pleased that we are addressing the problems with the squad, I hope we don't fall into the old Newcastle trick of glorifying players before they have kicked a ball. Welcome is one thing, worship is premature.
You mean you're not going down to the ground to chant his name and get on the tele?
What are the odds on Dave Woodhall being at Villa Park alongside Central News cameras tonight?
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With the cash we have, and are about to splash out, relegation would be catastrophic not to mention humiliating.
Oh yes. Shudder!
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Right Gerard, Randy is backing you to the hilt, time to produce.
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It's funny - when he joined the biggest concern I had over Houllier was transfers as I remember him signing an awful lor of rubbish at Liverpool, but still having a good side thanks to inheriting exciting youth products Gerrard and Owen.
Now I have many other concerns, yet his transfer dealings seem to be bang on thus far!
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I just can't make my mind up between either
"You're not shit; I just don't like you"
or
"I like you; but you're shit".
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Must admit lashing out 18 mill on Bent shows he's got more balls and belief in his own ability than Mon seemingly had, where strikers are concerned. I'd guess he's not afraid to push the owner more too.