In defence of Houllier

[dave.woodhall]

Other than selling Milner.

How many clubs in the country do you think would have been able to keep Milner?

[pauliewalnuts]

And a defender scored his first goal for years. Of course, we might not have been in that position had a certain forward not scooped the ball over from eighteen inches (approx) then got sent off.

That is true but it doesn't tell the full story.

For practically the entire match, we were insipid, disorganised, totally shapeless, unable to stop giving the ball away, and generally looked like we had not the first idea of what we were meant to be doing. It was as dispirited and shambolic a performance as I've seen for a long time.

One shot on target against Sunderland (who themselves looked rubbish) at home says it all.

Had that match come in any average run of games, it would have been deeply disappointing to see, but coming after finally showing a bit of spirit at Chelsea, it was doubly depressing.

In the earlier part of his reign, when we were not getting results, and he was getting stick, I could frequenty see plenty of positives. Not just the obvious example, Man United, but also Fulham away, when we were very good, Stoke away when for long spells we played some excellent stuff.

The problem is that, with the exception of Chelsea - and let's not forget, we very, very nearly conspired to get fuck all from that - for a long time now, I haven't been able to take a single positive from our performances, something to make me feel it is getting better. In fact, we seem to be getting worse - and this at a time when we're getting the injured players all back.

It is a horrible situation. I said for a while that sacking him now would be madness, with the timing re the transfer window, but it is so bad, and clearly getting worse on the pitch and not to mention off it with all the bitching and discord, that I am now thinking we'd be better off without him, and with some randomly chosen caretaker in for the rest of the season.

That's clearly not going to happen, though, so the board absolutely must, must back him in the window. Backing him to stay without putting money up is not fair on him or on us and the club, as it'll end in one way.

[dave.woodhall]

And a defender scored his first goal for years. Of course, we might not have been in that position had a certain forward not scooped the ball over from eighteen inches (approx) then got sent off.

That is true but it doesn't tell the full story.

For practically the entire match, we were insipid, disorganised, totally shapeless, unable to stop giving the ball away, and generally looked like we had not the first idea of what we were meant to be doing. It was as dispirited and shambolic a performance as I've seen for a long time.

One shot on target against Sunderland (who themselves looked rubbish) at home says it all.

Had that match come in any average run of games, it would have been deeply disappointing to see, but coming after finally showing a bit of spirit at Chelsea, it was doubly depressing.

Doubly agreed.

[tarzansbrother]

Other than selling Milner.

How many clubs in the country do you think would have been able to keep Milner?

Villa could have kept Milner like they are keeping Ashley Young(for how long is unkown). Lerner decided to sell and as it has turned out got a poor deal.

[dave.woodhall]

Other than selling Milner.

How many clubs in the country do you think would have been able to keep Milner?

Villa could have kept Milner like they are keeping Ashley Young(for how long is unkown). Lerner decided to sell and as it has turned out got a poor deal.

There's been no offers for Young. The richest club in the world wanted Milner, he wanted to go.

[Archie]

Yes, GH has some mitigating circumstances, but no way he can be absolved.
The fact that you haven't chosen the players doesn't mean that you must be relegated with a team that has the qualities to be in the left side of the table.
If that happens you can't absolve the manager.
When Arsène Wenger was appointed for  Arsenal in November or December 1996 he hadn't chosen the team, but he soon left  his imprinting on the squad.

Viceversa, in three months GH literally destroyed the team.
I have never seen a team running adrift like we are doing.
Every opponent scores against us with trifling easiness, all the formations that GH played are wrong, illogical, incomprehensible.

It's GH, not me, that plays four central defenders against an average team like Sunderland at home;
that plays the awful pair Dunne & Collins in the starting XI;
that leaves our best player Super Mark Albrighton on the bench;
that leaves our second best player Barry Bannan on the bench;
that plays Cjeran Clark out of role;
that plays our best and only striker Gabby Agbonlahor  substantially as a full back.

These choices have nothing to do with the fact that GH couldn't build the team that he has in mind, they only show that he doesn't know what he's doing.

[Ian.]

Keeping hold of a player who has not asked to leave with no solid interest and keeping hold of a player who has asked to leave with another team interested is quite different scenarios I reckon?

[tarzansbrother]

Other than selling Milner.

How many clubs in the country do you think would have been able to keep Milner?

Villa could have kept Milner like they are keeping Ashley Young(for how long is unkown). Lerner decided to sell and as it has turned out got a poor deal.

There's been no offers for Young. The richest club in the world wanted Milner, he wanted to go.

Dave come on, there have been offers for Youngy. Both to the club and his agents i would imagine. Isnt he doing what Milner did to us before the world cup?

[dave.woodhall]

Dave come on, there have been offers for Youngy. Both to the club and his agents i would imagine. Isnt he doing what Milner did to us before the world cup?

Have I missed something? Serious question, because I've not read of any firm offers for Young. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but I do know that City wanted Milner and at the time £26 million seemed a cracking deal.

[hawkeye]

Young is a target but we wont sell him in January, the club has made that clear, he will be gone in the summer

[El Hurricane]

Back to Houllier in Jamie Carragher's autobiography Carragher states that "Houllier arrived with a plan to confront what he perceived as the strongest,most disruptive personalities at the club".One of these being Paul Ince,for Ince read Petrov,Petrov was only subbed by O'Neill once,now his position is being questioned he doesn't like being out of his comfort zone.

[hawkeye]

how do you equte Ince with Petrov? Petrov remains the captain

[Pete3206]

It's all MON's fault or so I'm told.

In defence of Gerard Houllier, he hasn't thrown the towel which he could have easily done by now. He doesn't need the job or the money. I just hope to buggery that he can inspire the team out of this mess.

[Eigentor]

Houllier was dealt a very poor hand. but he also, it seems, has made some mistakes.

Perhaps the biggest is starting at the wrong end. He has tried to improve passing and movement. The only result is some passages of encouraging football, not lasting long enough to improve results in any match. Most modern football managers know that the first step in building a successful football team is to have a mean defence. A good, well-organised defence improves confidence. The team knows that it has a chance to win, even without having to score three or four goals every match.

It seems as if Houllier thought, seeing our defensive record from last season, that our defence was solid. But our defensive performance last season was reliant on Warnock and Dunne playing some of their best football of their career. This season they haven't been close to that. Warnock has been shocking at times, and Dunne unfit and underperforming.

I must admit that results and performances under Houllier has followed a different trajectory thus far as to what I expected. I thought he would start by emphasising defensive work, leading to a lot of 0-0, 1-0 and 0-1 and supporters complaining about boring, unimaginative football. Instead, we have been leaking goals left, right and centre.

A second mistake is that he, seemingly, has tried to implement changes too quickly. As a result, again seemingly, he has alienated a lot of players in the squad.

I would say that our poor performances and results this season are down to: the sale of Milner, no strengthening in the transfer window, Dunne's loss of form, MON's untimely exit, a horrendous injury list, players being too unprofessional to adapt to Houllier's new regime, but, first and foremostly, a monstrous drop in confidence. The latter is due to poor results but also our poor defence. Now that senior players are coming back from injury we still have to deal with this.

My opinion is that Houllier is only partly to blame for our problems this season, and that it would be premature to sack him now. But, after all, he is the man responsible for results, and you have to ask how long a manager can go on without winning matches. Generally, when things are not working, you have to try and change something -- not necessarily because it's the right change, but because you have to stop the feeling that you are going nowhere (or heading towards relegation). Sacking the manager, in my opinion, is too drastic a change unless the situation is approaching desperate.

Looking at the fixture list, it is easy to find oneself wondering where the next three points will come. If we go through January without a win, our confidence will be shattered, and we could find it difficult to win home games in February that should be considered easy. If we enter March and still are stuck in the relegation zone, I would say that the situation is approaching desperate.

[Sleeuwenhoek]

"The richest club in the world wanted Milner" At the time they also wanted Torres, Arteta, and Modric, who was the only one they got?