Did you turn on Randy like a den of vipers?

[DrGonzo]

So by and large we are in agreement that Kev Mac isn't and shouldn't be our next manager? 

I assume by your sullen silence you accept this point.  Why then should he have been given the mony fromthe Milner sale to spend? If the owner is talking about building the club over time then waiting to appoint a new manager before spunking a ball bags more cash is the sensible option.  Or the poor chap who who comes in will be £20mill worse off and left with a squad assembled entirely by another man.

And does anyone really believe the club has made £20mill profit this summer?  What we don't pay the players and staff during the close season?  We didn't do any work on the ground? 

Quit your bitching and be patient. It would have been an even worse situiation if we'd rushed and appointed any old sod who was available just so they could blow some money before the transfer window closed, we really would be being managed by the Svenis... Gods help us.  Can you imagine who he'd have bought with the Milner money??? =O

[ronshirt]

There is a snake called 'Malcolm's tree viper': co-incidendence? I don't think so.

[Hopadop]

Vipers don't live in dens. That's lions. Or fat middle-aged men with big houses, irritating wives and Sky+.

I think `a nest' of vipers is the appropriate cliche. In French you have a `knot' of vipers but in English it's a nest.

And if we're going to be really picky a viper is unlikely to turn on you unless you actually stand on it. Usually they piss their pants with fear at the sight of a person, or even a football benefactor

I think you're right. Nest of vipers. It could be a den of thieves.

It's all Andrew Jackson's fault, the damn Yank.

[damon loves JT]

There is a snake called 'Malcolm's tree viper': co-incidendence? I don't think so.

in Germany they have vindscreen vipers.

/coat

[freakypete]

are some fans still blind? or beleive in the mon hype?look at the majority of his buys,and his tacticks were neive he had no plan b.Randy is doing a good job,the clubs a buisness not a toy for mon and his media cronies.

[DrGonzo]

to be fair to the general he said pit vipers...or vipers who fight in pits for the betting enjoyment of the public.  like cock fighting, badger baiting, throwing christians to the lions etc.

[PeterWithe]

I think Plan b's are very over rated, although I did like that one when the video was in the courtroom.

[joe_c]

There is a snake called 'Malcolm's tree viper': co-incidendence? I don't think so.

It's funny 'cause it's true. Excellent serpent knowledge there.

[abc123cox]

i am a Randy supporter all the way.... i think he has saved this club from obscurity (another unknown middle table club, i.e blackburn, Bolton)

i have 100% confidence in him and the board! Curbs has questioned that judgment but if its true and he has listened to the fans and he is no longer in the running then thats brilliant!

Randy and Villa all the way!

[Villa'Zawg]

He said we have to get to grips with the wage bill and sell players. He said it on the first day of pre-season training immediately following his son posting an attack on the manager. It may be pure coincidence that we lost our manager, sold our best player and made £20m profit this summer. If it is a coincidence, we'll see them return to investment in January or next summer. If they don't, we'll know it wasn't a coincidence. As things stand, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

As for a host of players who don't get used much. We have only 17 experienced players in our squad, no other squad competing for CL places is as weak. We were very fortunate with injuries last season, let's hope this season is as fortunate.

17 experienced players.

So you reckon Habib Beye represents good value for money? Or Curtis Davies?

Does it not strike you as relevant that the manager fucked off at precisely the time he usually awoke from his summer hibernation and realised that he needed to sign players? Wouldn't you expect there to be something of a glitch in signing plans when the manager leaves at that point?

Here's what he said about the wage bill / selling players

2.  I am not sure what needs to be clarified in my statement.  We have supported Martin for the past 4 years...and are willing to support again.  At the same time, that support has to make sense.  It isn't "all about money" but to think that we can just throw money around...keep players on the wage bill that aren't going to get on the Pitch...and have a successful Club is not reasonable or good business.  Adding players without respect to the total outlay of the Club is the quickest way to get into danger...and this was reiterated many times over the past weeks.  It was NOT a case of spending money...it WAS a case of the weekly wage bill. This was not a shock to Martin or anyone else...it is just smart business and something that even the wealthest Clubs must watch.

I've bolded the important bits, as I suspect those are the ones you've been doing your best to avoid reading up till now. Incidentally, what is your take on the General's comments today on the circumstances of MON's leaving?

I trust you believe him to be lying on that, too. Incidentally, I see you telling everyone of what a shit job the board are doing, how they're skinflints etc etc on threads all over the place, other than General Krulak's thread. Why not raise it there?

As for 17 experienced players, yes, your hero has spent 120 million pounds and managed to accrue 17 experienced players.

Maybe if he hadn't spaffed 9 million pounds on a fourth choice centre back, 3.5m and 60k a week on a striker who goes into a catatonic state when he gets within 10 feet of goal, 8.5 million on a midfielder he ostracised after he looked at him funnily, 5m on a striker who was patently not good enough for Wigan let alone us, but who ran out the full length of his contract, and a big money contract for an ageing right back who then became third choice behind another right back and an out of position 8 milion pound centre back, maybe, just maybe we'd have been able to use that money more effectively and to build a deeper squad.

If the upshot of your reply is that you think we have overspent significantly on transfers and/or wages relative to a club in the top 6, then I disagree with you. I disagree on the basis of the amounts spent relative to the other clubs in and around our position in the league.

If you feel that some of our signings have been less than successful, then I agree with you. What I don’t agree with is the assertion that we have had an unusually high number of unsuccessful signings. On the contrary, I think we’ve been reasonably successful in the transfer market over the last four years. Again, relative to other clubs in our position.

When the General began posting on here and said the aim was to be competing for trophies and playing in the Champions League, I believed him. I didn’t expect to get to the position we were in this summer (having reached a cup final and accumulated the most points in a season since the league moved back to 38 games) and find we were going to retrench our position and not push on.

You’ve selected a post from the General where he reminds us that they have spent money on the squad over the last four years. I don’t think anyone is disputing that. Since Lerner took over they have spent approx. £60m net on players (according to Soccerbase figures). That amount of money is enough to have taken us from where we were to having a first team squad that can compete for a top 6 place. I don't think it is enough money to expect to have a great deal of depth in the squad and is part of the reason for having only 17 experienced players.

You've highlighted a particular post of the General's. I mentioned specifically the posts on here on the first day of pre-season training. I’ll say again, I was shocked at what I was reading. I have read all of the comments and quotes that come out of Villa Park. I thought I had understood Randy’s comments to the press in May regarding transfer money being available, Milner and the manager. As far as I know, he didn't mention wages in the entire 50 minute press conference. What The General and his son posted that day was completely out of kilter with all of the previous comments I had read. It’s worth recalling exactly what was said that evening and I’ve bolded the bit of the General’s post that I thought was most relevant at the time;

I think the 3 or 4 players we can get with the Milner money will make us stronger next season.

Really, like we did with Barry's money?

If its been posted sorry, here's the words from Mon's lips,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/8846298.stm

enjoy.

Selling Milner is one thing, but that attitude is depressing, I actually feel sorry for the bloke.

This was pathetic. MON needs to stop whinging about how hard life is and set about improving the team (and, concurrently, not wasting money on the wages of players that never sniff the pitch). If there were a sell-to-buy policy (which there is not), then he would only have himself to blame for the exorbitant wages spent on horrible players. The top wage earner at the club is Emile Heskey. Whose fault is that, I wonder? He has had plenty of money at his disposal and used it on a fair amount of garbage (not in total, of course, but his record in this is only so-so). He is fickle in his player selection and then, when he settles on a side, he runs it into the ground. Further, he has proved himself incapable of identifying talent outside of the country and thus is force to pay these higher wages; again, his fault. This whole moan would be laughable if it were not so infuriating.

 5 minutes later...

General Krulak here:

1.  Sorry for being off the site...your "military star and illustrious fan" is back...and I didn't take the comment as sarcastic but, rather, as an indication that I am first and foremost a fan.

2.  I know that I have mentioned on more than one occasion that we need to understand that all Premiership Clubs...yes, all football clubs...are a business.  Revenue and expenditures need to make sense.  One of the issues we face, and we have talked about it before and so has MON and others is the issue of the on-going wage bill.  This issue needs to be kept in perspective and needs to be understood.  It is not just the cost of the transfer...it is the on-going wages.  If you don't get that right, you cannot adequately pay your good players much less go onto the market and get new ones.  What we see right now is the Club getting a handle on the wage side of the house.  This is no different than what we have done once before.  This means we have to sell some players...no different than most Premiership Clubs...you see them doing it all the time.  Randy has NOT lost his passion for the Club or has he lost his vision of the goal he has always set for the Villa.  He has spent more time in the UK in the last 2 months than he has ever done before...he has been focused on the Club and has been working closely with MON.  As always, I am NOT going to get into a discussion of transfers BUT I will say that everyone needs to cool down a bit and see what happens.

3.  At some point we can discuss the World Cup...a pretty big disappointment for me.

One of the reasons that post struck me as important and unusual was that he was actually providing information about what they were thinking, as opposed to telling us what we should think, something I think he does more often than he should.

I thought Pelty’s response to what was a bland interview on the first day of pre-season was extraordinary. I thought the General’s follow-up 5 minutes later was much more serious. It seemed to me to be a hugely significant change of direction. BTW - I notice that Pelty and General performed a similar double act again yesterday with Pelty’s response to Risso followed minutes later by the General’s broadside on all of the forums.

I don’t know why the manager left the club when he did. You have a theory that he may have done it for vindictive reasons, I have a theory he may have done it because something made his position untenable. We’ve both looked at the evidence that is available. You seem to feel there is enough evidence to support your theory and have come to a conclusion. I don’t think there is enough evidence to support either theory and am keeping an open mind.

Martin O’Neill isn’t a hero of mind. I simply think he’s a good football manager who gets results, which is the only thing that interests me. I couldn’t give a flying feck about him either way now that he has left the club but that doesn’t stop me having concerns as to the reasons behind his decision.

Nothing I’ve said here accuses the General of lying, he doesn’t as far as I know. What he does do is tell you what he wants you to think.

Nor have I ever said the board is doing a shit job. Even where I raise concerns, I recognise that they are running business and will have to take decisions based on finance or operations, which are sometimes to the detriment of improving the team on the pitch. That’s a fact of life. I just want to know about and/or debate the decisions they are making.

You are entitled to your opinion that our relatively weak squad of only 17 experienced players is simply a reflection of the previous manager's lack of ability. I disagree, I'm of the opinion that we still need more investment, regardless of who the manager happens to be.

Apologies for the ridiculously long post.

[hawkeye]

I have always thought that Randy Lerner decided to buy Aston Villa as an investment.

Thinking long-term: perhaps he had an idea that it wouldn't be that long before a European League was formed; perhaps he also had another idea about making more money out of televising games from Villa Park involving the internet or a digital pay-to-view channel; perhaps he had a really wacky idea that club franchises can be moved around (Cleveland Villa might to our Randy have a particular resonance).

Thinking short-term: perhaps Randy saw the crash coming and wanted to get out of stocks and shares; perhaps he needed to shift some money out of the USA for tax purposes; perhaps he figured that buying a Premier League club was a copper-bottomed investment anyway.

Or perhaps he thought of buying Aston Villa and making them the top club in the world again.

As for the General: his business is PR. He's just not very good at it that's all.

I take it you are not an investment Guru

[wif]

I have always thought that Randy Lerner decided to buy Aston Villa as an investment.

Thinking long-term: perhaps he had an idea that it wouldn't be that long before a European League was formed; perhaps he also had another idea about making more money out of televising games from Villa Park involving the internet or a digital pay-to-view channel; perhaps he had a really wacky idea that club franchises can be moved around (Cleveland Villa might to our Randy have a particular resonance).

Thinking short-term: perhaps Randy saw the crash coming and wanted to get out of stocks and shares; perhaps he needed to shift some money out of the USA for tax purposes; perhaps he figured that buying a Premier League club was a copper-bottomed investment anyway.

Or perhaps he thought of buying Aston Villa and making them the top club in the world again.

As for the General: his business is PR. He's just not very good at it that's all.

I take it you are not an investment Guru

or a PR Guru, if you think the General is trying to be one.

[DANNYG]

well said VillaDawg youve explained exactly how I feel about the situation and I suspect many others aswell !

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I wonder if Chelsea fans are questioning Abramavich for putting their wage bill in order? Afterall, they couldn't afford to keep Joe Cole or Ballack. Or was it a case of getting rid of players on very high wages that were unlikely "to get a sniff of the pitch", freeing up money to spend on those that would.
We are also paying the high wages to dross with next to no resale value. And you wonder why Randy was/is concerned.

[Small Rodent]

There is a snake called 'Malcolm's tree viper': co-incidendence? I don't think so.

in Germany they have vindscreen vipers.

/coat

You've just taken me back to 1977 and the halcyon days of Little and Gray.