Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: sfx412 on September 03, 2010, 05:41:23 PM
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Nice to see General K back in full firing glory, although compared to other web sites he let this one off lightly, I thought.
Simply put, there are some Fans who have just turned on Randy like pit vipers...turned on the man who has done more for your Club in 4 years than most have done in 40. This summer will pass...it will be a footnote in history before we are all done. I have done all in my power to keep you all informed as to where we are...and there are some that just discount everything I say. I am at a loss as to where to go from here other than to say that we are continuing to work towards a resolution of this issue. WE didn't quit the team 5 days before the start of the season...WE didn't leave the Club high and dry.
and so on
He's right of course and he's putting him and Randy well up there to be shot down should the end result be someone as pleasing and dynamic as Curbishley or Houllier.
So do those who suggested that Randy and the Board were not doing the job well enough convinced by the General's latest of many similar comments or still feel that come decision day they will be proved correct.
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It's fair enough from the General, I still have faith in Randy he has a lot of credit in the bank and I think Houllier would be good.
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On one hand, you can't just keep spending money if you haven't got it - surely everyone agrees on that. They have done more for the club than I've ever known it do since my time following the Villa in the early/mid 90's. We couldn't ask for more if we don't want the club to go broke and be in massive debt.
However, on the other hand, it's looking likely, and I'm hoping to be proved wrong, that we're going to get a right fucking donkey as our new manager (Curbishley/Houiller/pretty much anyone on that list bar Moyes and maybe Jol). This, in my opinion, would tarnish the good reputation they have.
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I wouldn't say Houllier is a donkey, he's won plenty of trophies.
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Houllier would be the best appointment from the available list.give him a hance prefer him to circus sven,or curbs who said leaving the blues to join us was the biggest mistake of his life.Houllier as manager kevin mc as coach??He did a good job at liverpool so hes no fool
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We have to wait until the manager is appointed. The ambition of this football club will be shown in the next manager that comes here. If it is someone like Curbs, or Houllier, then I think a lot of fans will turn against.
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I personally think after over 3 weeks of deliberating deciding who should be our next manager there should of been a bit more ambition to try and get the best and who the fans would like as manager... a shortlist of Houllier, Sven, Curbishley and Macdonald isn't all that great really but I suppose it could of been a lot worse with someone like Bob Bradley managing us.
It looks a dead cert to me now that our new manager is going to be Houllier which will be a pretty decent appointment, but lots of Villa fans will think the board could have been more ambitious and that's understandable but I don't think anyone can really say the board have made a 'bad' decision in picking Houllier... if he was our best option than so be it, not much point of complaining.
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lets get real,who else is available whoos anygood? would love moyes or jol but neither are the kind of men who would walk out of there jobs during the season there good men, men of principle not like the last messiah,so houllier is the best candidate and it doesnt mean the club lack ambition.and lets remember he has a proven record in this country.wish we could do a treble
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I really don't understand people who are putting Houllier in the same bracket as Curbs. One is renowned as one of the finest nutures of young talent in europe and the other is Alan Curbishley.
Houllier wasn't the first name that sprang to mind when MON walked out on us, but the more i think about it, the more it makes sense.
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It it's houllier then that's ok, but if it is kmac I will not be impressed by a lack of ambition. No point people slaughtering randy until we know who it us - but I feel kmac would not go down well with a lot of people
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We have to wait until the manager is appointed. The ambition of this football club will be shown in the next manager that comes here. If it is someone like Curbs, or Houllier, then I think a lot of fans will turn against.
that is exactly my feeling, selling Milner and not giving the manager the £18M to spend set alarm bells ringing for me, and this appointment is going to be water shed for Randy's tenure.
Everything he has done to this point has been pretty much faultless but no one is going to tell me Houllier as manager is anything but a cost saving exercise.
What the General needs to remember is that the majority of us know a lot more about Villa and football than he ever will, so while he deserves our respect I am not going to be taken for a mug.
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We have to wait until the manager is appointed. The ambition of this football club will be shown in the next manager that comes here. If it is someone like Curbs, or Houllier, then I think a lot of fans will turn against.
that is exactly my feeling, selling Milner and not giving the manager the £18M to spend set alarm bells ringing for me, and this appointment is going to be water shed for Randy's tenure.
Everything he has done to this point has been pretty much faultless but no one is going to tell me Houllier as manager is anything but a cost saving exercise.
What the General needs to remember is that the majority of us know a lot more about Villa and football than he ever will, so while he deserves our respect I am not going to be taken for a mug.
I just don't understand how Houllier is the cheap option. He's won trophies in two separate European countries, is well respected in Europe. He'd be a good appointment. I don't think the General is trying to take us for a mug either.
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but no one is going to tell me Houllier as manager is anything but a cost saving exercise.
Houllier isnt a cost saving exercise.
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What the General needs to remember is that the majority of us know a lot more about Villa and football than he ever will, so while he deserves our respect I am not going to be taken for a mug.
I really hate when I see people write things like this, it's so arrogant and narrow-minded it's scary.
I'd bet good money on the general and randy knowing more about RUNNING a football club than anyone on this, or any other villa forum, just because we've been watching it doesn't make us right about everything. The reality is football, like any other sport, is a game of opinions and people who are experts (or believe they are) still can't agree on most things, so just because someone on here doesn't agree with Randy doesn't make either of them wrong.
That said what worries me most is that they only get this because they're american and everyone in the UK knows americans haven't got a clue about football.
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randy is the best, he has turned us from a falling club under ellis and o'dreary to a fighting for champions league 3 years on the trot. he has backed the manager, built a superb training ground and brought stability to us. granted we have a few "odd" names been bandered about for manager but its only paper talk. it has taken a long time because randy has put thought and spent money on getting advisers in to make sure he makes the best decision. i would of rather he takes his time than rush into something. YES i am worried that we might be getting houllier but he must show something to randy and his advisors and if he can recreate what he did for liverpool we are laughing.
i say give him the benefit of the doubt and we MAY be in for a nice surprise. REMEMBER ALL THIS CURBISHLY BOLLOX IS PAPER TALK !!
i dont think randy is that stupid to give curbishly the job. he needs to go one better than oniell
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Do some of you not see that you are driving the best owners we could ever wish for out of the door? Just let them all get on with the appointment in peace for christsake. They have never let us down before.
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What the General needs to remember is that the majority of us know a lot more about Villa and football than he ever will, so while he deserves our respect I am not going to be taken for a mug.
I suspect that most of us don't know more than the General about running a football club or what actually goes on when it comes to the mechanics of appointing a manager. You have an opinion as to who the next manager should be, that's all. If someone disagrees with you it doesn't mean they are taking you for a mug, they simply have a different view which could be in all liklihood be better informed because they are in possession of all the relevant facts.
Whoever is appointed we should continue to trust the board and at least give the manager a chance to see whether he's up to the job.
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I have always thought that Randy Lerner decided to buy Aston Villa as an investment.
Thinking long-term: perhaps he had an idea that it wouldn't be that long before a European League was formed; perhaps he also had another idea about making more money out of televising games from Villa Park involving the internet or a digital pay-to-view channel; perhaps he had a really wacky idea that club franchises can be moved around (Cleveland Villa might to our Randy have a particular resonance).
Thinking short-term: perhaps Randy saw the crash coming and wanted to get out of stocks and shares; perhaps he needed to shift some money out of the USA for tax purposes; perhaps he figured that buying a Premier League club was a copper-bottomed investment anyway.
Or perhaps he thought of buying Aston Villa and making them the top club in the world again.
As for the General: his business is PR. He's just not very good at it that's all.
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Do some of you not see that you are driving the best owners we could ever wish for out of the door? Just let them all get on with the appointment in peace for christsake. They have never let us down before.
I think if RL and co made impulsive financial decisions based on the comments of a few on an internet message board they probably wouldn't be cut out for the role anyway.
Fortunately I don't think they are that flakey, so we're OK for a bit.
It's a testing time, MON leaving when he did was always going to have that effect.
There might be a few barbs and a few comments said in frustration. But I still think RL has the backing of the vast majority of Villa fans. A good chunk of that goodwill might erode with a duff appointment mind.
Even then -as we've seen at Manure, Newcastle and Liverpool- an owners decline in popularity doesn't automatically mean that they up sticks and move. If they think it's financially beneficial to still hang around they will.
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I suspect that most of us don't know more than the General about running a football club or what actually goes on when it comes to the mechanics of appointing a manager. You have an opinion as to who the next manager should be, that's all.
Well said
I find the stupidity / arrogance and naivete or some people stunning. People just think it is as easy as rocking up to Everton or Ajax and simply 'take' their manager....why we are aston villa after all and our owner is a billionaire.
Like any business, look in from the outside and things look simple, when you examine the minutia things are seldom so easy
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Randy has been great for the club, and it is true that MON left us in the shit by leaving us when he did, and that the board (probably) cannot be blamed for this. However
1. It should be understandable that fans are worried by the time it has taken to find a replacement.
2. When you switch from being one of the biggest spenders in Premier League to adopt a "sell to buy"-policy, it should be obvious that we need time to adjust our expectations. (Adding to this our relative inactivity in this transfer window.)
All in all, the General's comments seem a little thin-skinned.
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I think Randy deserves respect for what he has done since he's been here.
Now were going through a tough time and its how he handles it now that will show his strength of character, I do feel for him. If Mon had walked in June when he should have then we would have had time to sort it out.
Were in a bit of a shit position where there isnt anyone good availiable. I seen someone on VT saying to the General grow some bollocks and get Moyes in!
In my opinion that is a stupid pathetic thing to say. Its not as easy as that and I think anyone with a brain knows that.
Only time will tell if randy has had enough of putting his money in. I suspect Jan will be the time to tell
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No, I did not turn on Randy and on this site I did not see many do so. I saw concern and questions and under the circumstances that is fair and to be expected. I like the fact the General posts on the websites.
I am not sure I run with the 'you lot do not know how difficult it is...' line the General has used lately. I think 99% of H&V posters are aware it is hard to run a club but they have a board and advisors to deal with these issues. I think that much frustration comes from the boards need to keep things to themselves to ensure they can conduct themselves correctly and get on with the job in hand and our impatience to know things are happening.
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I think we are all VERY anxious at the moment, and some irrational things are said and mainly kind of 'heat of the moment'.
Every single Villa fan will have Randy over all other Chairmen in the league and we are all appreciative of General K's input here and elsewhere.
It's not a matter of 'turning on Randy like a den of vipers' - it's more 'we're in the dark here, we want to be informed and we want to know that our club is going to have a great season. We've suffered a crap transfer window when our best player was sold and then to top it all off. MON walks out on the club and the fans. All we want is a fresh start and to be looking forward to a great season, great future'.
We are fans, so it's human nature to be concerned, worried, anxious and, with teh board having no track record of appointing a Manager, a little concerned about who the Manager will be.
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I am amazed that nobody has commented on the hilarious irony of Mrs Overall starting a topic on vipers in the nest.
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If I ran the Villa I wouldn't be asking Alan Curbishley for an interview that's for certain.
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I suspect that most of us don't know more than the General about running a football club or what actually goes on when it comes to the mechanics of appointing a manager. You have an opinion as to who the next manager should be, that's all.
Well said
I find the stupidity / arrogance and naivete or some people stunning. People just think it is as easy as rocking up to Everton or Ajax and simply 'take' their manager....why we are aston villa after all and our owner is a billionaire.
It's too easy to assume that's what people are saying though. It isn't.
There's a lot of intermediate space between suggesting we go and poach Martin Jol, and us appointing Curbishley, who - let's face it - would have been an uninspiring appointment four years ago, and in the time since then, has flopped at West Ham, then wound up on the dole.
I'm aware we're not going to get Moyes - why would he make a sideways move like this, at this point in the season (crucially). I also don't blame Jol for not wanting to leave Ajax with that tasty CL group they're involved in.
I do, however, think that some of the names mentioned in relation to us are not good enough for Aston Villa , not by a country mile. The non-availability of messrs Jol and Moyes doesn't change that.
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I'm all for letting people have their say but there's a real element of Spoilt Bastard from Viz in this one. "Randy, you better blummin well get me David Moyes or I'm never going to Villa Park again you useless football club chairman."
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I'm all for letting people have their say but there's a real element of Spoilt Bastard from Viz in this one. "Randy, you better blummin well get me David Moyes or I'm never to Villa Park again you useless football club chairman."
And a significant amount of "you're cheap, you're about saving money" after four years of consistent investment and with no actual evidence that is the case.
See also the way "sell to buy" became an accepted truth in the transfers thread.
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See also the way "sell to buy" became an accepted truth in the transfers thread.
And an accepted truth by Kmac?
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See also the way "sell to buy" became an accepted truth in the transfers thread.
And an accepted truth by Kmac?
But denied by the chairman and Gen Krulak.
I think they've got enough credit in the bank to be believed, to be honest.
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See also the way "sell to buy" became an accepted truth in the transfers thread.
And an accepted truth by Kmac?
But denied by the chairman and Gen Krulak.
I think they've got enough credit in the bank to be believed, to be honest.
I thought the General also talked about reducing the wage bill before getting others in. Isn't that a sell to buy policy by any other name. ( I doubt blame them for going that way with the stupid wages for once in a bluemoon players.)
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See also the way "sell to buy" became an accepted truth in the transfers thread.
And an accepted truth by Kmac?
But denied by the chairman and Gen Krulak.
I think they've got enough credit in the bank to be believed, to be honest.
I thought the General also talked about reducing the wage bill before getting others in. Isn't that a sell to buy policy by any other name. ( I doubt blame them for going that way with the stupid wages for once in a bluemoon players.)
I think he talked about the need to do something about the wage bill, and - if i recall correctly - "making sure the right players get the right money"
It's pretty clear that there are a host of players who don't get used much, but who get paid a lot of money. i don't see why wanting to do something about those players should exclude buying other players.
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Can't quite believe people are saying Houllier is a cheap option! He's not exactly gonna be on a small wedge in his job for the French FA is he?
I'm surprised no-one's buying into this DOF idea with coaches working underneath him. The structure of this club needs pulling into the modern era, and not trying to re-create 'the magic of Cloughie!'
Our scouting is p*ss poor, we've been saying that for years. What's better value £2.5m for Habib Beye or £250k for a 17 year old Spanish Kid called Fabregas?
If in 5 years time we're bringing through quality local and foreign kids (and giving them a chance), sprinkled with a few quality foreign buys, it'll be Martin O Who?
I know we're not an NFL team, but this is just what they do things over there. A General Manager who gets the players in and negotiates contracts and sets up the team for the season with a number of coaches underneath who organise tactics. Why are we surprised the Villa hierachy is thinking in this way?
That said if Alan Curbishley rolls up at Villa Park, i'll be gutted!!
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If our new manager can poach 17 year olds from Barcelona then fair play to him.
There's not much wrong at Villa, we've built up a very good youth set up over the years not matter who is manager.
The scouting set up may need tinkering but there is no guarantee we'll find the Bosnian James Milner as opposed to the Latvian Emile Heskey, we only need a couple more players regardless of the manager.
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I am amazed that nobody has commented on the hilarious irony of Mrs Overall starting a topic on vipers in the nest.
why thank you for again attacking the poster and not commenting on the thread, much appreciated.
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I am amazed that nobody has commented on the hilarious irony of Mrs Overall starting a topic on vipers in the nest.
why thank you for again attacking the poster and not commenting on the thread, much appreciated.
As if you never have.
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I suspect that most of us don't know more than the General about running a football club or what actually goes on when it comes to the mechanics of appointing a manager. You have an opinion as to who the next manager should be, that's all.
Well said
I find the stupidity / arrogance and naivete or some people stunning. People just think it is as easy as rocking up to Everton or Ajax and simply 'take' their manager....why we are aston villa after all and our owner is a billionaire.
It's too easy to assume that's what people are saying though. It isn't.
There's a lot of intermediate space between suggesting we go and poach Martin Jol, and us appointing Curbishley, who - let's face it - would have been an uninspiring appointment four years ago, and in the time since then, has flopped at West Ham, then wound up on the dole.
I'm aware we're not going to get Moyes - why would he make a sideways move like this, at this point in the season (crucially). I also don't blame Jol for not wanting to leave Ajax with that tasty CL group they're involved in.
I do, however, think that some of the names mentioned in relation to us are not good enough for Aston Villa , not by a country mile. The non-availability of messrs Jol and Moyes doesn't change that.
I don't disagree with any of that. But MON had left at the start of June it would have been a little different. The criticism of the board has been well over the top in my opinion. It seems no amount of the good work that the current board have done, counts for anything because we haven't been able to appoint a manager in the last couple of weeks. The accusations that this was done on purpose to restrict spending, is an insult to the good work the board have done over the past few years.
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Do some of you not see that you are driving the best owners we could ever wish for out of the door?
No amount of "rolling eyes" emoticons could do justice to just how silly this sentence is!
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Simply put, there are some Fans who have just turned on Randy like pit vipers...turned on the man who has done more for your Club in 4 years than most have done in 40.
I have always been generally pro-Randy, and I don't doubt his good intent: however I am beginning to ask myself if his efforts are always well directed. It's all very well rebuilding a pub, installing a mosaic and paying for free scarves and coach rides - but none of these things improve our performance on the pitch or make the club more financially viable. (Yes he did finish "state of the art" Bodymoor Heath, which I give him credit for because it's more than Doug did, although to be brutally honest it's arguable whether that's improved our performances or our injury rate
From what the buyer in the club shop was telling us the other day, Randy seems to spend an awful lot of time personally designing the checks on the side of the home shirt, patterns on various other bits of merchandise, and other strange things. I would MUCH rather he spent time working on how he manages his manager - something he doesn't seem hugely good at, if his record with the Cleveland Browns and with MON is anything to go by.
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Do some of you not see that you are driving the best owners we could ever wish for out of the door?
No amount of "rolling eyes" emoticons could do justice to just how silly this sentence is!
What about a face/palm?
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Simply put, there are some Fans who have just turned on Randy like pit vipers...turned on the man who has done more for your Club in 4 years than most have done in 40.
I have always been generally pro-Randy, and I don't doubt his good intent: however I am beginning to ask myself if his efforts are always well directed. It's all very well rebuilding a pub, installing a mosaic and paying for free scarves and coach rides - but none of these things improve our performance on the pitch or make the club more financially viable. (Yes he did finish "state of the art" Bodymoor Heath, which I give him credit for because it's more than Doug did, although to be brutally honest it's arguable whether that's improved our performances or our injury rate
From what the buyer in the club shop was telling us the other day, Randy seems to spend an awful lot of time personally designing the checks on the side of the home shirt, patterns on various other bits of merchandise, and other strange things. I would MUCH rather he spent time working on how he manages his manager - something he doesn't seem hugely good at, if his record with the Cleveland Browns and with MON is anything to go by.
Posts like this annoy me as well. Randy tries to get the details right so of course he's open to the accusation that all he cares about is the trivialities. How about you wait and see who the new manager is before you criticize him on such a petty level?
EDIT: And as for "managing the managers", I didn't hear MON complaining much when Randy gave him complete control over playing matters and transfers for 4 years.
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Simply put, there are some Fans who have just turned on Randy like pit vipers...turned on the man who has done more for your Club in 4 years than most have done in 40.
I have always been generally pro-Randy, and I don't doubt his good intent: however I am beginning to ask myself if his efforts are always well directed. It's all very well rebuilding a pub, installing a mosaic and paying for free scarves and coach rides - but none of these things improve our performance on the pitch or make the club more financially viable. (Yes he did finish "state of the art" Bodymoor Heath, which I give him credit for because it's more than Doug did, although to be brutally honest it's arguable whether that's improved our performances or our injury rate
From what the buyer in the club shop was telling us the other day, Randy seems to spend an awful lot of time personally designing the checks on the side of the home shirt, patterns on various other bits of merchandise, and other strange things. I would MUCH rather he spent time working on how he manages his manager - something he doesn't seem hugely good at, if his record with the Cleveland Browns and with MON is anything to go by.
Posts like this annoy me as well. Randy tries to get the details right so of course he's open to the accusation that all he cares about is the trivialities. How about you wait and see who the new manager is before you criticize him on such a petty level?
Is having a say in the design of the kit really within his remit though?
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Randy has been great for the club, and it is true that MON left us in the shit by leaving us when he did, and that the board (probably) cannot be blamed for this. However
1. It should be understandable that fans are worried by the time it has taken to find a replacement.
2. When you switch from being one of the biggest spenders in Premier League to adopt a "sell to buy"-policy, it should be obvious that we need time to adjust our expectations. (Adding to this our relative inactivity in this transfer window.)
Well said, Eig.
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See also the way "sell to buy" became an accepted truth in the transfers thread.
And an accepted truth by Kmac?
But denied by the chairman and Gen Krulak.
I think they've got enough credit in the bank to be believed, to be honest.
I thought the General also talked about reducing the wage bill before getting others in. Isn't that a sell to buy policy by any other name. ( I doubt blame them for going that way with the stupid wages for once in a bluemoon players.)
I think he talked about the need to do something about the wage bill, and - if i recall correctly - "making sure the right players get the right money"
It's pretty clear that there are a host of players who don't get used much, but who get paid a lot of money. i don't see why wanting to do something about those players should exclude buying other players.
He said we have to get to grips with the wage bill and sell players. He said it on the first day of pre-season training immediately following his son posting an attack on the manager. It may be pure coincidence that we lost our manager, sold our best player and made £20m profit this summer. If it is a coincidence, we'll see them return to investment in January or next summer. If they don't, we'll know it wasn't a coincidence. As things stand, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
As for a host of players who don't get used much. We have only 17 experienced players in our squad, no other squad competing for CL places is as weak. We were very fortunate with injuries last season, let's hope this season is as fortunate.
17 experienced players.
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He said we have to get to grips with the wage bill and sell players. He said it on the first day of pre-season training immediately following his son posting an attack on the manager. It may be pure coincidence that we lost our manager, sold our best player and made £20m profit this summer. If it is a coincidence, we'll see them return to investment in January or next summer. If they don't, we'll know it wasn't a coincidence. As things stand, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
As for a host of players who don't get used much. We have only 17 experienced players in our squad, no other squad competing for CL places is as weak. We were very fortunate with injuries last season, let's hope this season is as fortunate.
17 experienced players.
So you reckon Habib Beye represents good value for money? Or Curtis Davies?
Does it not strike you as relevant that the manager fucked off at precisely the time he usually awoke from his summer hibernation and realised that he needed to sign players? Wouldn't you expect there to be something of a glitch in signing plans when the manager leaves at that point?
Here's what he said about the wage bill / selling players
2. I am not sure what needs to be clarified in my statement. We have supported Martin for the past 4 years...and are willing to support again. At the same time, that support has to make sense. It isn't "all about money" but to think that we can just throw money around...keep players on the wage bill that aren't going to get on the Pitch...and have a successful Club is not reasonable or good business. Adding players without respect to the total outlay of the Club is the quickest way to get into danger...and this was reiterated many times over the past weeks. It was NOT a case of spending money...it WAS a case of the weekly wage bill. This was not a shock to Martin or anyone else...it is just smart business and something that even the wealthest Clubs must watch.
I've bolded the important bits, as I suspect those are the ones you've been doing your best to avoid reading up till now. Incidentally, what is your take on the General's comments today on the circumstances of MON's leaving?
I trust you believe him to be lying on that, too. Incidentally, I see you telling everyone of what a shit job the board are doing, how they're skinflints etc etc on threads all over the place, other than General Krulak's thread. Why not raise it there?
As for 17 experienced players, yes, your hero has spent 120 million pounds and managed to accrue 17 experienced players.
Maybe if he hadn't spaffed 9 million pounds on a fourth choice centre back, 3.5m and 60k a week on a striker who goes into a catatonic state when he gets within 10 feet of goal, 8.5 million on a midfielder he ostracised after he looked at him funnily, 5m on a striker who was patently not good enough for Wigan let alone us, but who ran out the full length of his contract, and a big money contract for an ageing right back who then became third choice behind another right back and an out of position 8 milion pound centre back, maybe, just maybe we'd have been able to use that money more effectively and to build a deeper squad.
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That's a bit one-sided from somebody who is often at pains to portray himself as the voice of reason. He recouped about £70m if you count the sale of Milner, which you have to as you're not counting him as one of our 17 experienced players. £50m net for a squad that includes two players, Ash and Gabby, who are probably worth that on the open market between them.
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Had a quick look on soccerbase and I think he raised closer to £50m than £70m.
Selling off Gabby and Ash would bring in between £35m-40m at best I' d say.
It's not so much the money he spent on players that annoys me, it's the failure to either dispose of a large number who he decided he didn't rate anymore/(and or) the failure to give them more of a chance.
The full-back situation in particular was a farce, let's be honest, for most of his time here. Playing Mellberg and Gardner on the right when they were clearly far better in other areas. Dilly-dallying on Luke Young before eventually paying twice as much as we could have got for him a year previously. Panic-buying on Shorey after Bouma's injury and losing faith in him shortly afterwards. Seemingly falling out with both players leading to another centre-back playing out of position (Cuellar) for much of last season and Shorey being replaced by an expensive English replacement in Warnock. His last transfer acts could well have been the combined selling of Shorey and Young for less than what one of them cost two years previously. It's not so much the money, just the sheer frustration at failing to get the best out of certain players - his apparent main gift when it comes to management.
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I'm all for letting people have their say but there's a real element of Spoilt Bastard from Viz in this one. "Randy, you better blummin well get me David Moyes or I'm never going to Villa Park again you useless football club chairman."
Well said. That and "I want it and I WANT IT NOW"
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how many of those who turned on Randy on the various sites saw and obviously still see Mon as their hero.
How many who have cast slights on the Board especially those who consistently do so have replied to the Generals accusations on any thread let alone the Generals.
I'm sure at some time in the past many of us have questioned General K and received the full blast of his retorts but its never stopped us replying or asking new questions. So why have so few of the Randy conspiracists yet to take the General to task.
Lacking the bottle perhaps or just a genuine lack of a sensible reply.
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Are you just trying to wind people up to cause more disruption?
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I think the General is being a little touchy. The owners have been brilliant so far, they've got almost everything right. However, this is by far the biggest test they've had and it's a new one for them while us fans have been through it many times before and are well aware of how easy it is to get wrong. We've also seen that this summer we've made a £20m profit on transfers. It's hardly a surprise that there are a few worries about the immediate future of the club.
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Good point Chris his reactions on another site did suggest so.
Are you just trying to wind people up to cause more disruption?
Where were my questions not valid? I had thought this a site for open discussion, although I must admit it sometimes degenerates into a bitch fight thanks to some who always make it personal. Why in this instance are you trying to.
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how many of those who turned on Randy on the various sites saw and obviously still see Mon as their hero.
How many who have cast slights on the Board especially those who consistently do so have replied to the Generals accusations on any thread let alone the Generals.
I'm sure at some time in the past many of us have questioned General K and received the full blast of his retorts but its never stopped us replying or asking new questions. So why have so few of the Randy conspiracists yet to take the General to task.
Lacking the bottle perhaps or just a genuine lack of a sensible reply.
That was your last post Malcolm; and you accuse me of being bitchy.
Your style is inflammatory and clearly you're just trying to wind people up.
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The games changed and only Man City are buying big. Apart from them, what other club would have paid that much for him? same for Ash and Gabby wouldn't fetch the same as two years ago. Lets jus wait and see who's appointed i'm just glad MONs gone.
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Had a quick look on soccerbase and I think he raised closer to £50m than £70m.
Selling off Gabby and Ash would bring in between £35m-40m at best I' d say.
I thought it was about £40m, before Milner and Shorey went. I'd say we got £30m for Milner because Ireland is worth a fair bit more than £8m.
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Good point Chris his reactions on another site did suggest so.
Are you just trying to wind people up to cause more disruption?
Where were my questions not valid? I had thought this a site for open discussion, although I must admit it sometimes degenerates into a bitch fight thanks to some who always make it personal. Why in this instance are you trying to.
Why have you spent years making things personal?
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I think the General is being a little touchy. The owners have been brilliant so far, they've got almost everything right. However, this is by far the biggest test they've had and it's a new one for them while us fans have been through it many times before and are well aware of how easy it is to get wrong. We've also seen that this summer we've made a £20m profit on transfers. It's hardly a surprise that there are a few worries about the immediate future of the club.
I agree Chris.
This is their biggest test, and I think the communicaton levels are what concern us most.
We read ITKs, we read The Mirror, we read all sorts of stuff, but nothing comes from the club other than what The General writes on here and on other sites.
We are a collective bumch of worriers - we worry for our club !
We are anxious for the future and that concern tips over the edge sometimes and especially on forums like H&V.
Chill pills required all round me thinks !
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Vipers don't live in dens. That's lions. Or fat middle-aged men with big houses, irritating wives and Sky+.
I think `a nest' of vipers is the appropriate cliche. In French you have a `knot' of vipers but in English it's a nest.
And if we're going to be really picky a viper is unlikely to turn on you unless you actually stand on it. Usually they piss their pants with fear at the sight of a person, or even a football benefactor
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And a significant amount of "you're cheap, you're about saving money" after four years of consistent investment and with no actual evidence that is the case.
See also the way "sell to buy" became an accepted truth in the transfers thread.
I think there is a bit of a difference between thinking that the number one priority for this season is getting the income/wages figures in better order, and thinking that RL is cheap.
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So by and large we are in agreement that Kev Mac isn't and shouldn't be our next manager?
I assume by your sullen silence you accept this point. Why then should he have been given the mony fromthe Milner sale to spend? If the owner is talking about building the club over time then waiting to appoint a new manager before spunking a ball bags more cash is the sensible option. Or the poor chap who who comes in will be £20mill worse off and left with a squad assembled entirely by another man.
And does anyone really believe the club has made £20mill profit this summer? What we don't pay the players and staff during the close season? We didn't do any work on the ground?
Quit your bitching and be patient. It would have been an even worse situiation if we'd rushed and appointed any old sod who was available just so they could blow some money before the transfer window closed, we really would be being managed by the Svenis... Gods help us. Can you imagine who he'd have bought with the Milner money??? =O
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There is a snake called 'Malcolm's tree viper': co-incidendence? I don't think so.
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Vipers don't live in dens. That's lions. Or fat middle-aged men with big houses, irritating wives and Sky+.
I think `a nest' of vipers is the appropriate cliche. In French you have a `knot' of vipers but in English it's a nest.
And if we're going to be really picky a viper is unlikely to turn on you unless you actually stand on it. Usually they piss their pants with fear at the sight of a person, or even a football benefactor
I think you're right. Nest of vipers. It could be a den of thieves.
It's all Andrew Jackson's fault, the damn Yank.
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There is a snake called 'Malcolm's tree viper': co-incidendence? I don't think so.
in Germany they have vindscreen vipers.
/coat
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are some fans still blind? or beleive in the mon hype?look at the majority of his buys,and his tacticks were neive he had no plan b.Randy is doing a good job,the clubs a buisness not a toy for mon and his media cronies.
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to be fair to the general he said pit vipers...or vipers who fight in pits for the betting enjoyment of the public. like cock fighting, badger baiting, throwing christians to the lions etc.
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I think Plan b's are very over rated, although I did like that one when the video was in the courtroom.
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There is a snake called 'Malcolm's tree viper': co-incidendence? I don't think so.
It's funny 'cause it's true. Excellent serpent knowledge there.
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i am a Randy supporter all the way.... i think he has saved this club from obscurity (another unknown middle table club, i.e blackburn, Bolton)
i have 100% confidence in him and the board! Curbs has questioned that judgment but if its true and he has listened to the fans and he is no longer in the running then thats brilliant!
Randy and Villa all the way!
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He said we have to get to grips with the wage bill and sell players. He said it on the first day of pre-season training immediately following his son posting an attack on the manager. It may be pure coincidence that we lost our manager, sold our best player and made £20m profit this summer. If it is a coincidence, we'll see them return to investment in January or next summer. If they don't, we'll know it wasn't a coincidence. As things stand, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
As for a host of players who don't get used much. We have only 17 experienced players in our squad, no other squad competing for CL places is as weak. We were very fortunate with injuries last season, let's hope this season is as fortunate.
17 experienced players.
So you reckon Habib Beye represents good value for money? Or Curtis Davies?
Does it not strike you as relevant that the manager fucked off at precisely the time he usually awoke from his summer hibernation and realised that he needed to sign players? Wouldn't you expect there to be something of a glitch in signing plans when the manager leaves at that point?
Here's what he said about the wage bill / selling players
2. I am not sure what needs to be clarified in my statement. We have supported Martin for the past 4 years...and are willing to support again. At the same time, that support has to make sense. It isn't "all about money" but to think that we can just throw money around...keep players on the wage bill that aren't going to get on the Pitch...and have a successful Club is not reasonable or good business. Adding players without respect to the total outlay of the Club is the quickest way to get into danger...and this was reiterated many times over the past weeks. It was NOT a case of spending money...it WAS a case of the weekly wage bill. This was not a shock to Martin or anyone else...it is just smart business and something that even the wealthest Clubs must watch.
I've bolded the important bits, as I suspect those are the ones you've been doing your best to avoid reading up till now. Incidentally, what is your take on the General's comments today on the circumstances of MON's leaving?
I trust you believe him to be lying on that, too. Incidentally, I see you telling everyone of what a shit job the board are doing, how they're skinflints etc etc on threads all over the place, other than General Krulak's thread. Why not raise it there?
As for 17 experienced players, yes, your hero has spent 120 million pounds and managed to accrue 17 experienced players.
Maybe if he hadn't spaffed 9 million pounds on a fourth choice centre back, 3.5m and 60k a week on a striker who goes into a catatonic state when he gets within 10 feet of goal, 8.5 million on a midfielder he ostracised after he looked at him funnily, 5m on a striker who was patently not good enough for Wigan let alone us, but who ran out the full length of his contract, and a big money contract for an ageing right back who then became third choice behind another right back and an out of position 8 milion pound centre back, maybe, just maybe we'd have been able to use that money more effectively and to build a deeper squad.
If the upshot of your reply is that you think we have overspent significantly on transfers and/or wages relative to a club in the top 6, then I disagree with you. I disagree on the basis of the amounts spent relative to the other clubs in and around our position in the league.
If you feel that some of our signings have been less than successful, then I agree with you. What I don’t agree with is the assertion that we have had an unusually high number of unsuccessful signings. On the contrary, I think we’ve been reasonably successful in the transfer market over the last four years. Again, relative to other clubs in our position.
When the General began posting on here and said the aim was to be competing for trophies and playing in the Champions League, I believed him. I didn’t expect to get to the position we were in this summer (having reached a cup final and accumulated the most points in a season since the league moved back to 38 games) and find we were going to retrench our position and not push on.
You’ve selected a post from the General where he reminds us that they have spent money on the squad over the last four years. I don’t think anyone is disputing that. Since Lerner took over they have spent approx. £60m net on players (according to Soccerbase figures). That amount of money is enough to have taken us from where we were to having a first team squad that can compete for a top 6 place. I don't think it is enough money to expect to have a great deal of depth in the squad and is part of the reason for having only 17 experienced players.
You've highlighted a particular post of the General's. I mentioned specifically the posts on here on the first day of pre-season training. I’ll say again, I was shocked at what I was reading. I have read all of the comments and quotes that come out of Villa Park. I thought I had understood Randy’s comments to the press in May regarding transfer money being available, Milner and the manager. As far as I know, he didn't mention wages in the entire 50 minute press conference. What The General and his son posted that day was completely out of kilter with all of the previous comments I had read. It’s worth recalling exactly what was said that evening and I’ve bolded the bit of the General’s post that I thought was most relevant at the time;
I think the 3 or 4 players we can get with the Milner money will make us stronger next season.
Really, like we did with Barry's money?
If its been posted sorry, here's the words from Mon's lips,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/8846298.stm
enjoy.
Selling Milner is one thing, but that attitude is depressing, I actually feel sorry for the bloke.
This was pathetic. MON needs to stop whinging about how hard life is and set about improving the team (and, concurrently, not wasting money on the wages of players that never sniff the pitch). If there were a sell-to-buy policy (which there is not), then he would only have himself to blame for the exorbitant wages spent on horrible players. The top wage earner at the club is Emile Heskey. Whose fault is that, I wonder? He has had plenty of money at his disposal and used it on a fair amount of garbage (not in total, of course, but his record in this is only so-so). He is fickle in his player selection and then, when he settles on a side, he runs it into the ground. Further, he has proved himself incapable of identifying talent outside of the country and thus is force to pay these higher wages; again, his fault. This whole moan would be laughable if it were not so infuriating.
5 minutes later...
General Krulak here:
1. Sorry for being off the site...your "military star and illustrious fan" is back...and I didn't take the comment as sarcastic but, rather, as an indication that I am first and foremost a fan.
2. I know that I have mentioned on more than one occasion that we need to understand that all Premiership Clubs...yes, all football clubs...are a business. Revenue and expenditures need to make sense. One of the issues we face, and we have talked about it before and so has MON and others is the issue of the on-going wage bill. This issue needs to be kept in perspective and needs to be understood. It is not just the cost of the transfer...it is the on-going wages. If you don't get that right, you cannot adequately pay your good players much less go onto the market and get new ones. What we see right now is the Club getting a handle on the wage side of the house. This is no different than what we have done once before. This means we have to sell some players...no different than most Premiership Clubs...you see them doing it all the time. Randy has NOT lost his passion for the Club or has he lost his vision of the goal he has always set for the Villa. He has spent more time in the UK in the last 2 months than he has ever done before...he has been focused on the Club and has been working closely with MON. As always, I am NOT going to get into a discussion of transfers BUT I will say that everyone needs to cool down a bit and see what happens.
3. At some point we can discuss the World Cup...a pretty big disappointment for me.
One of the reasons that post struck me as important and unusual was that he was actually providing information about what they were thinking, as opposed to telling us what we should think, something I think he does more often than he should.
I thought Pelty’s response to what was a bland interview on the first day of pre-season was extraordinary. I thought the General’s follow-up 5 minutes later was much more serious. It seemed to me to be a hugely significant change of direction. BTW - I notice that Pelty and General performed a similar double act again yesterday with Pelty’s response to Risso followed minutes later by the General’s broadside on all of the forums.
I don’t know why the manager left the club when he did. You have a theory that he may have done it for vindictive reasons, I have a theory he may have done it because something made his position untenable. We’ve both looked at the evidence that is available. You seem to feel there is enough evidence to support your theory and have come to a conclusion. I don’t think there is enough evidence to support either theory and am keeping an open mind.
Martin O’Neill isn’t a hero of mind. I simply think he’s a good football manager who gets results, which is the only thing that interests me. I couldn’t give a flying feck about him either way now that he has left the club but that doesn’t stop me having concerns as to the reasons behind his decision.
Nothing I’ve said here accuses the General of lying, he doesn’t as far as I know. What he does do is tell you what he wants you to think.
Nor have I ever said the board is doing a shit job. Even where I raise concerns, I recognise that they are running business and will have to take decisions based on finance or operations, which are sometimes to the detriment of improving the team on the pitch. That’s a fact of life. I just want to know about and/or debate the decisions they are making.
You are entitled to your opinion that our relatively weak squad of only 17 experienced players is simply a reflection of the previous manager's lack of ability. I disagree, I'm of the opinion that we still need more investment, regardless of who the manager happens to be.
Apologies for the ridiculously long post.
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I have always thought that Randy Lerner decided to buy Aston Villa as an investment.
Thinking long-term: perhaps he had an idea that it wouldn't be that long before a European League was formed; perhaps he also had another idea about making more money out of televising games from Villa Park involving the internet or a digital pay-to-view channel; perhaps he had a really wacky idea that club franchises can be moved around (Cleveland Villa might to our Randy have a particular resonance).
Thinking short-term: perhaps Randy saw the crash coming and wanted to get out of stocks and shares; perhaps he needed to shift some money out of the USA for tax purposes; perhaps he figured that buying a Premier League club was a copper-bottomed investment anyway.
Or perhaps he thought of buying Aston Villa and making them the top club in the world again.
As for the General: his business is PR. He's just not very good at it that's all.
I take it you are not an investment Guru
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I have always thought that Randy Lerner decided to buy Aston Villa as an investment.
Thinking long-term: perhaps he had an idea that it wouldn't be that long before a European League was formed; perhaps he also had another idea about making more money out of televising games from Villa Park involving the internet or a digital pay-to-view channel; perhaps he had a really wacky idea that club franchises can be moved around (Cleveland Villa might to our Randy have a particular resonance).
Thinking short-term: perhaps Randy saw the crash coming and wanted to get out of stocks and shares; perhaps he needed to shift some money out of the USA for tax purposes; perhaps he figured that buying a Premier League club was a copper-bottomed investment anyway.
Or perhaps he thought of buying Aston Villa and making them the top club in the world again.
As for the General: his business is PR. He's just not very good at it that's all.
I take it you are not an investment Guru
or a PR Guru, if you think the General is trying to be one.
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well said VillaDawg youve explained exactly how I feel about the situation and I suspect many others aswell !
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I wonder if Chelsea fans are questioning Abramavich for putting their wage bill in order? Afterall, they couldn't afford to keep Joe Cole or Ballack. Or was it a case of getting rid of players on very high wages that were unlikely "to get a sniff of the pitch", freeing up money to spend on those that would.
We are also paying the high wages to dross with next to no resale value. And you wonder why Randy was/is concerned.
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There is a snake called 'Malcolm's tree viper': co-incidendence? I don't think so.
in Germany they have vindscreen vipers.
/coat
You've just taken me back to 1977 and the halcyon days of Little and Gray.
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There is a snake called 'Malcolm's tree viper': co-incidendence? I don't think so.
in Germany they have vindscreen vipers.
/coat
Brilliant!
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so has Randy done more for villa in 4 years than 'most' have in 40 years?
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Perhaps Randy asked MON to leave beceause he wasn`t a very good.....Adder ;)
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so has Randy done more for villa in 4 years than 'most' have in 40 years?
I don't understand who he means by that. Is he talking about chairmen, managers or fans during the last 40 years? I mean when he starts putting trophies in the cabinet he can start boasting, but until then what he's done so far is hardly worth shouting about.
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Remind me again when Randy turned from being the best owner in the country to this parsimonious, bumbling, neo-Ellis figure because I certainly can't work it out.
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He didnt Dave, he is in charge of the club and the summer has been wasted putting us in the situation we are now, I blame MOn more than i do Randy for what happened but it is pretty difficult to be an absentee landlord and i think losing the manager 5 days before the start of the season proves this. His fault was investing trust in someone who didnt deserve that trust. Some of the criticism of him is completely unjustified and i am still glad that he is our Chairmen and owner.
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Dare I say the day martin O'Neill ran out on us.
There I said it
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Remind me again when Randy turned from being the best owner in the country to this parsimonious, bumbling, neo-Ellis figure because I certainly can't work it out.
That's the frankly cringemaking thing.
It's amazing and embarassing in equal measures.
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I put it down to the school holidays.
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so has Randy done more for villa in 4 years than 'most' have in 40 years?
I don't understand who he means by that. Is he talking about chairmen, managers or fans during the last 40 years? I mean when he starts putting trophies in the cabinet he can start boasting, but until then what he's done so far is hardly worth shouting about.
The 40 years reference could be seen as a reference to someone else who was involved with the club for very nearly 40 years.
Or it could be him just getting pissed off that Randy is copping so much flak, having done so much in the last four years.
Incidentally, were you saying the same thing about "talk to me when there's silverware in the cupboard" about MON when he was still here?
*wink*
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Remind me again when Randy turned from being the best owner in the country to this parsimonious, bumbling, neo-Ellis figure because I certainly can't work it out.
That's the frankly cringemaking thing.
It's amazing and embarassing in equal measures.
Have you tried hormone treatment? :smile wink thingy:
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Houllier wasn't the first name that sprang to mind when MON walked out on us, but the more i think about it, the more it makes sense.
Agreed Hartman, for some reason I am sitting here thinking: "Actually, he's experienced, he's good at nurturing youth talent, he plays counter attack, and had teams with pace, and he's willing to take a punt on a risky player and if it doesn't work he'll admit it, and sell them on, rather than ignoring them... Houllier could work for us, even if for a year/two."
He's won the treble lets not forget! Was it him in charge against us in the league cup - the one where the game was delayed for what seemed like an eternity because villa decided not to send out tickets in the post?
I'm afraid all I recall of that is sitting at home, despite having a ticket, because I was ill, and thinking "thank f**k I'm not there." ;)
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so has Randy done more for villa in 4 years than 'most' have in 40 years?
Randy has put more money into the club than I have in 40 years but some of our players get paid more in a week or two, without even playing, than we put in, in 40 years. Are they more valued than us? It isn't all about money.
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All I know is that that Den off Eastenders was a bit of a snake.
/taxi
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I've been waggling my trouser snake at the wife when I come out of the shower (whilst shouting WAH-HEY!) surely Randy can't object to that?
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It turns him on.
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I was interested that General K in his column on here seemed unaware that he'd written such as that reported. Could other sites use ghost writers in his threads perhaps.
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Its amazing how a simple statement can be turned round like chinese whispers.
How can 'some fans turning on Randy like pit-vipers' be translated into 'a den of vipers'?
The General was right to say it, as there have been some pretty crass comments made on various sites/facebook where 'Villa fans' are basically blaming RL for our ex manager walking out 5 days before the season started, and saying things like he should sell up etc as he is just like Ellis.
Imo these people havent a clue, and just believe what they want to believe, ie what they read in tabloids and take as gospel.
When a club sacks a manager they normally have an idea of who they want to replace, in this case with our ex walking out like he did, it totally threw our pre-season plans into disarray, with a busy 2 week schedule at the start of the season.
Personally, i think the board have gone about it in the correct way.
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I was interested that General K in his column on here seemed unaware that he'd written such as that reported.
My guess is that not everyone keeps track of when they say something stupid.
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I don't think anyone has turned on Randy, I certainly haven't, but some are asking questions, of which I am one. All he needs to do in order to answer them, and make people like me look like an idiot for asking in the first place, is to continue doing what he's been doing since he bought the club 4 years ago. He gets a free pass this summer due to Martin leaving and the understandable focus on clawing back a wagebill that had gotten out of control, but then January and next summer become the true tests.
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Generally I think the response on this site to the unfolding events of this summer has been measured and intelligent. I dont visit other sites so I cant comment but some of the embarassing bollocks that has/is being posted on facebook and skysports etc is almost beyond belief. For example, one retard suggested that Houllier would be a disaster compared to MON, (who he described as the best manager we've had for years), because he signed Emile Heskey for Liverpool! Many others seem to be of the opinion that because Randy hasnt barged in and taken Jol/Mourinho or AN Other from his current contracted employer then he isnt trying and we're heading for oblivion. Maybe these are some of the pit-vipers the General is referring to
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I don't think anyone has turned on Randy, I certainly haven't, but some are asking questions, of which I am one. All he needs to do in order to answer them, and make people like me look like an idiot for asking in the first place, is to continue doing what he's been doing since he bought the club 4 years ago. He gets a free pass this summer due to Martin leaving and the understandable focus on clawing back a wagebill that had gotten out of control, but then January and next summer become the true tests.
If he gets a free pass this summer because the manager shat on him, and if needing to rein in the wage bill is understandable, what are you actually asking questions about?
As for people not turning on him, sorry, but you must be joking. There have been plenty of people calling him cheap, telling us that he hasn't spent much money, that he changed the agreed transfer plan and drove the manager out etc.
Call it "asking questions" if you like, but it had looked more like ungrateful petulance to me.
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I still have faith in randy but I;m not sure how he has got away without criticism this summer. MON threw his toys out of the pram and created this situation, or at least part of it, we don't know what was said to him in terms of money promised etc we only know one side of the story.
When was the last time we were thumped 6-0 at an average team, and then dumped out of Europe playing poorly, went through a transfer window doing virtually nothing but sell arguably our best player, and still sat back thinking outr owner's great?
Other fans have started to laugh at us again. They see we have no money, or that it won't be spent. I'm not sure what the reality is, I believe that randy is working hard for us but questions need to be raised and answered, but aren't. Is their a budget for Villa and Cleveland Browns? When we were getting money spent on us they were complaining that they weren't being spent on. Now they spend vast amounts ($50m?) on one player and we get nothing. Is there a correlation?
All in all I'm content with the way things have gone but am annoyed that we are currently in the situation we are. Anyway, good luck to Houllier. Randy needs it.
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All I know is that that Den off Eastenders was a bit of a snake.
/taxi
Don't get Den in a taxi for f***s sake...
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If he gets a free pass this summer because the manager shat on him, and if needing to rein in the wage bill is understandable, what are you actually asking questions about?
Fair point.
As an example, here's a question I posed to the General on his thread. I asked it twice and did not get a straight answer:-
"If the reports are to be believed, and some of your comments would seem to lend them credence, we had a task this summer of cutting the wagebill. As we understand it, a number of high earning players, who were not being picked, needed to be shed in order to control the wages/turnover ratio and make room for new signings, which is perfectly understandable from a business perspective. However, it does raise of the question of whether this would be the case had they played more often? We often debate on this site that the manager should have changed things around a little more and utilized the players he had brought. Yet had that happened would we still be talking about selling them to save wages? So basically I'm asking what was the bigger issue - the wages total or the wages utilization?"
This season has been one of upheaval so curcumstances can be blamed. But we've still had a summer we're we've lessened the wage bill and made a transfer profit, which is not how you build a side/club and qualify for the CL. Was this the plan anyway or did what we were going to do get scuppered when Martin left? Time will tell and that's why I'm not on the boards back now, but do this again in 2011 and I will be - and I won't be the only one!
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how many of those who turned on Randy on the various sites saw and obviously still see Mon as their hero.
How many who have cast slights on the Board especially those who consistently do so have replied to the Generals accusations on any thread let alone the Generals.
I'm sure at some time in the past many of us have questioned General K and received the full blast of his retorts but its never stopped us replying or asking new questions. So why have so few of the Randy conspiracists yet to take the General to task.
Lacking the bottle perhaps or just a genuine lack of a sensible reply.
This is wummery of the highest order! Genuinely.
I find all that you have written here to be totally at odds with the incredibly snide comment that you left on the General's thread suggesting/hinting that his actions to lay off posting were "strange". "Strange"? What astonishing language choice.
The wording of your posts seem to suggest a desire to inflame, arouse anger and sow discontent amongst posters and Board members alike. I'm not sure it is adding anything constructive to the debate.
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I still have faith in randy but I;m not sure how he has got away without criticism this summer. MON threw his toys out of the pram and created this situation, or at least part of it, we don't know what was said to him in terms of money promised etc we only know one side of the story.
When was the last time we were thumped 6-0 at an average team, and then dumped out of Europe playing poorly, went through a transfer window doing virtually nothing but sell arguably our best player, and still sat back thinking outr owner's great?
Other fans have started to laugh at us again. They see we have no money, or that it won't be spent. I'm not sure what the reality is, I believe that randy is working hard for us but questions need to be raised and answered, but aren't. Is their a budget for Villa and Cleveland Browns? When we were getting money spent on us they were complaining that they weren't being spent on. Now they spend vast amounts ($50m?) on one player and we get nothing. Is there a correlation?
All in all I'm content with the way things have gone but am annoyed that we are currently in the situation we are. Anyway, good luck to Houllier. Randy needs it.
Pretty much summed up how I'm seeing things at the moment.
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The reason I'm a bit loath to criticise Randy is that because of the timing of O'Neill's departure I just don't know what his plans were or how much he was willing to allow the manager to spend.
We know (or at least we think) that there were concerns about the wage bill but I didn't see any indications that O'Neill wouldn't have got some money to spend, but we'll probably never know because he left just at the time when he usually finally stumbles, blinking into the transfer window.
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I was interested that General K in his column on here seemed unaware that he'd written such as that reported.
My guess is that not everyone keeps track of when they say something stupid.
I certainly don't. I have a wife to do that for me.
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I was interested that General K in his column on here seemed unaware that he'd written such as that reported.
My guess is that not everyone keeps track of when they say something stupid.
I certainly don't. I have a wife to do that for me.
Tee hee
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The timing of O'Neill's departure certainly plays to the theory that he was very much the bad guy in this. Besides, Randy's got a lot of credit in the bank. A lot. He's paid for Martin to have £40M worth of players that MON fell out with in the stand.
It would take a lot to convince me otherwise that Randy's anything other than whiter-than-white over this.
A new appointment was always going to be a tricky thing, and I think I can guess what decisions have been made prior to approaching a manager.
Absolutely no point in rushing to appoint the likes of Curbishley just so he can buy 2 players. We need someone that can move us forward. And I think that Houllier can. We may just have to be prepared to finish 8th rather than 6th. And given our propensity to be dumped out of the Europa League at the first hurdle it'll make no difference.
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The timing of O'Neill's departure certainly plays to the theory that he was very much the bad guy in this.
If looked at another way, you could ask what had happened to make Martin make such a radical decision?
I guess which side of that argument you fall on depends on your opinion of Martin prior to his leaving.
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The timing of O'Neill's departure certainly plays to the theory that he was very much the bad guy in this.
If looked at another way, you could ask what had happened to make Martin make such a radical decision?
I guess which side of that argument you fall on depends on your opinion of Martin prior to his leaving.
True up to a point. I wanted O'Neill gone but I'm wondering exactly what it is that made him do what he did when he did. Totally selfish? Maybe, but the way the General is reacting and things that he says is making me think that its if not 50-50, then the board have some culpability.
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The only semi-plausible scenario that shows MON in a good light that I can think of is if he was having the sale of Milner/acquisition of Ireland forced on him. He may have had to accept the sale, but not the purchase. And the deal may not have gone through without Ireland swapping clubs too.
That said, Randy toughed it out with Barry so it's a big leap of faith to accept the above as true.
As I said, Randy has a lot of credit in the bank. MON had used most of his up.
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And I think that Houllier can. We may just have to be prepared to finish 8th rather than 6th. And given our propensity to be dumped out of the Europa League at the first hurdle it'll make no difference.
I think it will make some of our better players question whether they want to stay or not.
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And I think that Houllier can. We may just have to be prepared to finish 8th rather than 6th. And given our propensity to be dumped out of the Europa League at the first hurdle it'll make no difference.
I think it will make some of our better players question whether they want to stay or not.
Which in turn will force us to wonder why the club didn't act quickly, or quicker in appointing a manager and getting players in.
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The only semi-plausible scenario that shows MON in a good light that I can think of is if he was having the sale of Milner/acquisition of Ireland forced on him. He may have had to accept the sale, but not the purchase. And the deal may not have gone through without Ireland swapping clubs too.
That said, Randy toughed it out with Barry so it's a big leap of faith to accept the above as true.
As I said, Randy has a lot of credit in the bank. MON had used most of his up.
That's the issue though, we don't know what went on behind closed doors. You class the above as semi-plausible, yet I find it MUCH easier to believe than martin had decided to go and out of spite he waited for 5-days before to truely screw us over.
And I think the stance over Barry had as much if not more to do with Martin as it did with Randy. have we not been told that he had full control over such matters?
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The only semi-plausible scenario that shows MON in a good light that I can think of is if he was having the sale of Milner/acquisition of Ireland forced on him. He may have had to accept the sale, but not the purchase. And the deal may not have gone through without Ireland swapping clubs too.
That said, Randy toughed it out with Barry so it's a big leap of faith to accept the above as true.
As I said, Randy has a lot of credit in the bank. MON had used most of his up.
A lot of credit, yes, but split between two clubs, or franchises, or whatever they should be called. Of that how much is really put aside for us? I do believe that Randy has put a lot of money MON's way which hasn't always been spent well, but by and large it has. Its only now that Randy has pulled the plug which is fair enough, but you still cannot help but question why we've bought absolutely no-one?
As for the players that we would have sold i.e. Sidwell, why did they not go unless the board knew we wouldn't be bringing anyone else in?MON may have used his credit up but that's no reason for Aston Villa FC to have used up their credit.