0% Villa. The Damned United.

[Concrete John]

They were a nasty side and Revie encouraged it. They could play some great football but it was always after they'd bullied the opposition physically in the first place. Norman Hunter was jus a thug, remember Jackie Charlton and his little black book of who he was going to do, Johnny Giles was a great player but a nasty fucker, Alan Clarke was all little off the ball digs and Bremner was the worst of the lot.

They fully earned their reputation, imo.

Which is exactly what Villa need in midfield at the moment

Maybe, except he'd not last 10 minutes if he tried to play like that these days.

Football was a much dirtier game in the 70s so they weren't alone but what made Leeds stand out was that they appeared to be so cynically premeditated about it.

You're right, our midfield needs a great player who's also a clever and devious nasty fucker.

[Captain Trips]

Theres a dearth of nasty fuckers now. How many can you name? I think the last two really nasty fuckers were Keane and Viera, who would have fitted in extremely well at Leeds in the 70's !!!

[Ads]

Nor were Leeds ever quite as dirty as is portrayed though they could dish it out on occasions. They also played some superb football, which is never remembered and particularly since The Damned United surfaced. On their day, Giles, Eddie Gray, Lorimer, Jones, Madeley and Clarke were sublime...

True, but as I read it in Peace's book, the "dirty Leeds" tag was something that ate away at Clough, he didn't think they should be able to play like that and still win trophies, so much that he couldn't see past the fouls and the cheating. Therefore I think it was right to portray them as such in the film even if the truth was somewhat different.

That was my point really Dave - that in real life whilst no angels, they were not as bad as their portrayal in this film has led people to believe them to be.

And not as good either. The second thing people remember them for after being dirty bastards was that they didn’t win anywhere near as much as they could/should have done.

[cdbearsfan]

They were a nasty side and Revie encouraged it. They could play some great football but it was always after they'd bullied the opposition physically in the first place. Norman Hunter was jus a thug, remember Jackie Charlton and his little black book of who he was going to do, Johnny Giles was a great player but a nasty fucker, Alan Clarke was all little off the ball digs and Bremner was the worst of the lot.

They fully earned their reputation, imo.

Which is exactly what Villa need in midfield at the moment

I think Fabian Delph could be the answer. Who did we sign him from again?

[PaulTheVillan]

They were a nasty side and Revie encouraged it. They could play some great football but it was always after they'd bullied the opposition physically in the first place. Norman Hunter was jus a thug, remember Jackie Charlton and his little black book of who he was going to do, Johnny Giles was a great player but a nasty fucker, Alan Clarke was all little off the ball digs and Bremner was the worst of the lot.

They fully earned their reputation, imo.

Which is exactly what Villa need in midfield at the moment

I think Fabian Delph could be the answer. Who did we sign him from again?

Have a guess...

It's not that hard.

[darren woolley]

David batty he was a nasty wrong un.  But i enjoyed watching the film give me clough over mourinho.

[UK Redsox]

They were a nasty side and Revie encouraged it. They could play some great football but it was always after they'd bullied the opposition physically in the first place. Norman Hunter was jus a thug, remember Jackie Charlton and his little black book of who he was going to do, Johnny Giles was a great player but a nasty fucker, Alan Clarke was all little off the ball digs and Bremner was the worst of the lot.

They fully earned their reputation, imo.

Which is exactly what Villa need in midfield at the moment

I think Fabian Delph could be the answer. Who did we sign him from again?

We need "nasty" not "reckless"

The closest we've had recently was Hitzelsperger during his "which superstar will Tommy kick today period" (ie before he started to try and play actual football)

[not3bad]

The second thing people remember them for after being dirty bastards was that they didn’t win anywhere near as much as they could/should have done.

Isn't that rumoured to be because of Revie's dodgy deals, match fixing etc?

[Dave Cooper please]

Nor were Leeds ever quite as dirty as is portrayed though they could dish it out on occasions. They also played some superb football, which is never remembered and particularly since The Damned United surfaced. On their day, Giles, Eddie Gray, Lorimer, Jones, Madeley and Clarke were sublime...

True, but as I read it in Peace's book, the "dirty Leeds" tag was something that ate away at Clough, he didn't think they should be able to play like that and still win trophies, so much that he couldn't see past the fouls and the cheating. Therefore I think it was right to portray them as such in the film even if the truth was somewhat different.

That was my point really Dave - that in real life whilst no angels, they were not as bad as their portrayal in this film has led people to believe them to be. And of course, Clough never encouraged Gemmill, Burns, Larry Lloyd, Dave McKay or anyone else to play in the same way...

We are broadly in agreement Richard, all I'm saying is that, in the context of the film and especially Clough's hatred of Revie, they had to be portrayed as dirty, cheating wankers.
 You have to remember that this is a work of fiction based on true events, Peace never meant it to be some sort of biography.

[march]

Interesting in the documentary after the film when MON was talking about how Clough played him out of position.
MON went to see Clough to ask him could he play in his preferred position, and Clough basically told him, either he played in the position allocated to him or he would find himself on the sub's bench. MON said he never mentioned it again.

Draw your own conclusions, but i would say, that probably explains the falling out with NRC.

The managers call is final and MON learnt that lesson. Maybe what has changed is the players, they think themselves above the manager and if NRC does not like it then move.

However maybe he would be on less money if he asked for a transfer, lose bonus's etc and would rather wait until his contract runs out than first team football.

Says all what is wrong with modern football.

[Pete3206]

Liverpool in the 70's and 80's were dirty bastards, same as Man U in the 90's.

[curiousorange]

I grew up well after the first Leeds imperial period under Revie but was always given to understand by my grandfather that Leeds were some of the most spiteful and dirty players ever seen on a football pitch. How much of that is sour grapes I don't know, but those of you who follow karma might see the fact they were cheated out of a European Cup as a just payment.

As far as the film goes, it's just brilliant. I read the book and obviously expected it to be a lot darker, but from what I've read about the making of it, they cut a lot of the darker material because it would sell better as a redemptive story of friendhsip rather than the bitter tale of a man losing his marbles in an impossible position of his own making. If anyone has the DVD and has seen those scenes, please enlighten us.

[MoetVillan]

I thought the book was truly excellent, and the film lived up to it, which is a rarity.  As for "dirty fuckers that are clever" we should certainly look to some Dutchmen!  Unlike most of the press that condoned their game in the final, I thought they tried to play to their strengths.  And on another day, that game could have resulted in a Dutch win, beatinga much more skilful tema with tactics and toughness.  Van Bommel is a master at pushing it as far as he can without taking the booking, very clever player

[TimTheVillain]

Hadn't seen Tony Francis for a while, he hasn't changed at all !

[hackneyvillain]

For anyone who missed it, it is now up on BBC iplayer..