Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on November 12, 2023, 03:59:56 PM
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13 in a row
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Joy.
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Nice.
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Great stuff! UTV!
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Manchester City, we're coming for you
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It's entirely possible I may have said this before, but...
Emery, absolute bloody genius.
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Pressure on those above and below. Lovely lovely stuff.
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Our midfield was dominant today and Villa Park is a fortress. That is all.
Well done Villa, enjoy the rest of your weekends!
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Apparently only Man City have previously scored at least 3 in their opening 6 PL home games. After years of setting new club records for shitness it's great to be setting postive ones.
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Tielemans and Castagne having a lovely little catch up at full time.
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Good stuff - lost a bit of control after the third, but some superb performances in there. Tielemans and SJM in particular, and Bailey when he came on.
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Apparently only Man City have previously scored at least 3 in their opening 6 PL home games. After years of setting new club records for shitness it's great to be setting postive ones.
Whilst also cheating. Emery has done it with the same team Steven fucking Gerrard mismanaged. It's absolutely incredible what Emery is doing here. Incredible.
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Good win. No cards, so barring international disasters, everyone available for Spurs, maybe even Ramsey.
Also a bit of mystery around what the starting 11 will be now with players back and Tielemans starting today. Exciting times.
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Well done Villa. Solid if unspectacular performance. Some nice goals in there but gave the ball away too cheaply especially in the second half. Need to get max points against Bournemouth when we play them which won’t be easy because 3 of the next 4 is against the top 4 sides.
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Fulham were getting loads of praise for that second half off Hendrie and the main commentator on the world feed.
I just thought it was like Luton, we were in complete cruise control, knew we were going to win and would've stepped it up like at home to West Ham if it was needed.
No bookings for those on 4 yellows is excellent aswell.
We can win at Spurs. Really looking forward to that match in two weeks.
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McGinn the best midfielder in the league right now for me. He's immense.
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Fabulous stuff.
A lovely win before an international break, comfortably sat 5th in the league table with the highest number of goals scored in the Prem & 13 home wins on the spin...
👌👍😃
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If we could just win the next two home league games...
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That'll do! We've had better performances, we've had worse ones. Some ropy moments second half but we were already 3-0 up so, well, I guess that's just what it is.
Tielemans' first full game for us in all comps? Thought he looked like he really belonged.
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Fabulous stuff.
A lovely win before an international break, comfortably sat 5th in the league table with the highest number of goals scored in the Prem & 13 home wins on the spin...
👌👍😃
5 points clear of 6th place, who are Man Utd, unbelievably.
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That'll do. Very good first half, less impressive second half, but if Watkins can put a header in unmarked from two yards out then it would have looked more comfortable.
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Well done boys.
UTV
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we got a bit sloppy at one point, which, I think Emery will be furious with. In summary, we've won that game in second gear.
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We'd be top right now if we'd beaten Forest.
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The third goal was a thing of beauty. I don't think we were at our best but played well enough to win comfortably. I wish we'd start to keep clean sheets again. We are good to watch and this is no fluke. Great stuff Villa.
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13 in a row
Unlucky for some, namely our opponents.
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We'd be top right now if we'd beaten Forest.
Arsenal would be top if they'd beaten Fulham at home
Spurs would be top if they'd won at Bournemouth
Liverpool would be top if they'd won at Luton
These results happen.
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Fulham were getting loads of praise for that second half off Hendrie and the main commentator on the world feed.
I just thought it was like Luton, we were in complete cruise control, knew we were going to win and would've stepped it up like at home to West Ham if it was needed.
No bookings for those on 4 yellows is excellent aswell.
We can win at Spurs. Really looking forward to that match in two weeks.
I think they try to talk the game up. Barring high drama the points were safe.
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I think we tired second half so not as comfortable as could have been. Fulham pressed better second half and also made runs from deeper. Still some lovely football McGinn and Tielemans stood out for me
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December could be one hell of a month.
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Apparently only Man City have previously scored at least 3 in their opening 6 PL home games. After years of setting new club records for shitness it's great to be setting postive ones.
I was just saying this to my lad - that awful list of craposity we had under Lambert is being washed away at last
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McGinn the best midfielder in the league right now for me. He's immense.
MOTM by a mile. He's a tremendous tempo setter straight after europa Thursday night matches.
This is the SJM we all fell in love with during the promotion season.
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2-1, no reason.
Back on track with an easy win, 3-1.
Pressure's on for the Spurs game. #Insight
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I really enjoyed that first half, a joy to watch. Second half was probably the first signs of tiredness and the 4 yellows effect. I'll take it though and it will leave Unai still demanding improvement though what he'll say to John McGinn is another matter. Where he gets the energy from I've no idea and today he combined it with skill Zidane would have been proud of.
Mention also for Matty Cash, he must know we need an additional right back come January, the question is do we buy a back up or upgrade. After today's performance there can't be too many upgrades out there.
I feel sorry for Watkins, going off for international duty knowing everybody saw that miss. It was a shocker but he tried to put it in the corner which is always a good thing..well almost. He is what he is and will score more than he misses, especially in this team.
Not that bothered about us being 4th or 5th, we have the points on the board and building some space between those below us whilst keeping very close to those above.
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called it correctly. now lets batter the tottenham cockspurs
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McGinn was outstanding, Tielemans starting to really flourish too. Lots of other very solid performances.
Understandably tired in the second half but delighted overall.
What a time to be a Villa fan! Love it.
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2-1, no reason.
Back on track with an easy win, 3-1.
Pressure's on for the Spurs game. #Insight
3-1, as Martinez seems incapable of keeping a clean sheet at the moment.
Insight.
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It's my Villa mad daughters birthday today. I'm delighted for her at the result...as well as meself. Thanks Villa.
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December could be one hell of a month.
8 games in 27 days!
One is Mostar away, which hopefully will be academic, but Unai's ability to manage the squad in terms of workload and motivation will be crucial.
He's got form and distance in handling the pressure and problems this can bring.
Positives
Tielemans is beginning to show why we signed him
Moreno and JJ should both be back to full fitness.
If Dougie and Kamara can avoid more yellows, and Unai can just sort out the emigma that is Zaniolo......
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It's my Villa mad daughters birthday today. I'm delighted for her at the result...as well as meself. Thanks Villa.
Happy birthday Shelley jnr!
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3-1, as Martinez seems incapable of keeping a clean sheet at the moment.
Insight.
You just cribbed off my insight! :P
Us 3 Them 1. We don't do clean sheets.
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(https://media.tenor.com/DwTd7QsSbMUAAAAC/toronto-ultra-insight.gif)
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It's my Villa mad daughters birthday today. I'm delighted for her at the result...as well as meself. Thanks Villa.
Happy birthday Shelley jnr!
:D
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Well we played well for the most part, Fulham were woeful first half and we kept them at arms
length quite easily and were deservedly 2 up despite the appalling referee. Second half I thought they pressed us well and we looked a bit tired but did enough to see it out comfortably. McGinn MotM for me, quite superb.
Can’t wait for the Spurs game, let’s hope we can go and stuff Angeball up their arse.
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Great times at Villa Park at the moment. Another team dispatched without too much fuss and 3 more points on the board.
Agree that McGinn was MOTM, a really good performance. You could see that he was getting visibly frustrated at the amount of times he was fouled. The next four league games could well determine how our season unfolds.
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A comfortable enough win and good to see us bounce back after last week.
Shame about their goal though. The ref was a bit rubbish wasn't he?
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Scotland have already qualified for the Euros, haven't they? I wonder if they'd use these 2 games to try out some new players and give McGinn a bit of a rest for us.
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So dominant in the first half. Moving the ball well, controlling the tempo, pinging passes about with ease and creating chances. McGinn and Tielemans our stand out players. Diaby should have scored, as should have Cash
Fulham's only contribution was to get away with endless tactical fouls. They were absolutely garbage.
I'm not sure if it was fatigue or mentally switching off,as 2nd half was very poor. No intensity off the ball, sloppy and static on it and for reasons that are beyond me, we knocked it long all half and gave it away so cheaply as a result.
A stupid sloppy goal, a stupid chance to give up when they hit the post and generally really sloppy stuff. Fulham didn't deserve anything, but it was a massive drop off.
Brilliant counter attack for the 3rd, not sure how we didn't score 4th and bang, 13 league wins in a row, incredible.
Felt we missed some direct running and that is what Moreno and JJ bring. Digne checks back a lot for me when there's space to exploit and I'm looking forward to having another way of playing with the pace and physical presence of the aforementioned.
Exciting times; a genuine gap between the top 5 and the rest.
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McGinn the best midfielder in the league right now for me. He's immense.
He was fantastic today. Gave his mates the kick up the arse they needed every time it went flat.
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A comfortable enough win and good to see us bounce back after last week.
Shame about their goal though. The ref was a bit rubbish wasn't he?
Aren't they all?
17 fouls and 4 bookings for Fulham
2 for dissent, but only 2 for foul play - one of which was in the 96th minute - almost an afterthought?
Konsa booked for time-wasting and Ollie "thug" Watkins fir a foul.
The ref's failure to sanction them was pathetic.
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Marvellous meatball.
Best performance of season.
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McGinn and Tielemans joint MotM for me….
13 home wins in a row. Great birthday eve present.
Moreno and Ramsey to come back in too!
Villa for the Premier League, FA Cup and Europa Conference treble anyone? 👀
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The ref let them foul too much without any deterrent until later, although like most teams, they do it in rotation. In the end they did get 5 yellows. The early offside flagging from the assistants when players were near the centre line also contrasted sharply with the usual late ones when players were even more offside.
I agree with others that McGinn was outstanding and really drove us on. The piece of play where he got past two defenders on the goal line before Ollie missed a sitter, summed up his game today.
It was a really good first half followed by an average second half, but compared to a year ago, this is outstanding.
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Very flat second half and surprised Emery didn't run the bench. Bailey made a big impression though. Fulham at least gave it a go second half. McGinn was like prime Roy Keane today, incredible performance. Cash very good too I thought. Bit meh apart from that but on we go
Martinez 7 - could have sat on a chair in first half but a fine save at start of second
Cash 8 - did the defensive basics very well. Got back brilliantly to bail out Tielemans in first half.
Konsa 6 - strong first half but off it second half and should have done far better for their goal
Torres 6 - like Konsa fine first half but dropped off a lot second half
Digne 6 - Wilson caused a lot of bother until McGinn switched over.
Kamara 6 - another one who dropped off a lot second half and looked gassed in truth
Luiz 7 - Fulham pressed him at every opportunity but still produced the quality to set Tielemans away. Quieter second half but still won a lot of second balls
McGinn - unbelievable from the off, cracking goal, great play for the third, mugged off Paulinha throughout, he's getting 10
Tielemans 6 - great ball for the first but thought he was struggling before then. Didn't give Digne much support in the second and needed McGinn switched over
Diaby 5 - should have scored early on but quiet again apart from that and no surprise hooked early
Watkins 6 - Thought Bassey bossed him today, still scored though and missed an absolute howler
Bailey 8 - enigma wrapped in a riddle, brilliant assist and very lively upon his introduction
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I think we tired second half so not as comfortable as could have been. Fulham pressed better second half and also made runs from deeper. Still some lovely football McGinn and Tielemans stood out for me
Yes, Villa did look a bit jaded in the second-half. I was surprised that UE didn't make more substitutions, especially after a tough game last Thursday night. First-half, Villa played some great football. McGinn, Cash and Tielemans really stood out.
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Scotland have already qualified for the Euros, haven't they? I wonder if they'd use these 2 games to try out some new players and give McGinn a bit of a rest for us.
He could do with getting the “flu”.
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Fulham and Palace both from the same mould, offered absolutely nothing.
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Fulham and Palace both from the same mould, offered absolutely nothing.
You can now see the divide between the top sides and the rest. We used to be one of them not long ago. Offering almost nothing at all going to places where the opponent expected us to lose.
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The concern is that we are beginning to look tired.
Not sure this squad can keep playing the way we want to play for a season.
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Scotland have already qualified for the Euros, haven't they? I wonder if they'd use these 2 games to try out some new players and give McGinn a bit of a rest for us.
He could do with getting the “flu”.
Or a "toe infection "
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There's been some surprising results in the division of late, some unexpected victories. I mean Man U have won two on the bounce which is shocking for starters.
So a nice routine win to go into the break is definitely welcome. A week ago I didn't fancy the Spurs game, but it suddenly seems a lot more winnable. It'll be high-scoring I think.
Ollie: 16 goal involvements in 19 games
Bailey: 11 in 17
Douglas 8 in 19
McGinniesta 8 in 19
Diaby 6 in 17
Digne 6 in 19
Cash 5 in 19
That says it all really and the improvement in certain players is there for all to see. The biggest thing for Meatball, who was exceptional today, has always been the fact we needed more goals and assists from him. So far so good. Impressively, we're not just relying on Ollie either, the goals and assists have been well-shared. Bailey's transformation is a little bit unheralded to be honest. He can still frustrate yes, but the end product is there for all to see. His step up has been fantastic because many of us thought he should have been shipped out in the summer. I'm really glad he's turned it around as he's very likeable apart from anything else.
I feel like we could cover injuries to key players more favourably than several clubs around us too. Spurs have lost a lot through Maddison being injured.
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The third goal was a thing of beauty.
It really was. Probably my favourite goal so far this season.
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Great result - first half I thought we were brilliant. Though McGinn was immense - and Tilemanns very good today.
Great result - and points on the board. Great to see Bailey stepping up as Tom says. If, and its a big if, we can get 6 points+ from the next 4 - well be in a really good place for a Top 5 finish - which if I understand correctly would be CL football - which would be unbelievable.
What a time to be a Villa fan - particularly as it feels like this is just the start.
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If, and its a big if, we can get 6 points+ from the next 4 - well be in a really good place for a Top 5 finish - which if I understand correctly would be CL football - which would be unbelievable.
I'm looking for 8-10 points from those 4.
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Apparently only Man City have previously scored at least 3 in their opening 6 PL home games. After years of setting new club records for shitness it's great to be setting postive ones.
The presenter post chelsea city game looking at table said Liverpool majestic at home having won every game by two or more goals, then he said Spurs drop down to 4th and Villa stay 5th, nothing more like before mancity's 4 goals in the match we were the top scorers etc etc.
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If, and its a big if, we can get 6 points+ from the next 4 - well be in a really good place for a Top 5 finish - which if I understand correctly would be CL football - which would be unbelievable.
I'm looking for 8-10 points from those 4.
Are you also looking fo Eva Longoria? ;)
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McGinn and Tielemans joint MotM for me….
13 home wins in a row. Great birthday eve present.
Moreno and Ramsey to come back in too!
Villa for the Premier League, FA Cup and Europa Conference treble anyone? 👀
Have a great day tomorrow.
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The gap between Villa in 5th and the muppets in 6th is the biggest points gap in the whole premier league table. Top 5 breakaway.
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Scotland have already qualified for the Euros, haven't they? I wonder if they'd use these 2 games to try out some new players and give McGinn a bit of a rest for us.
He could do with getting the “flu”.
Or a "toe infection "
Bruised bum? More believable.
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If, and its a big if, we can get 6 points+ from the next 4 - well be in a really good place for a Top 5 finish - which if I understand correctly would be CL football - which would be unbelievable.
I'm looking for 8-10 points from those 4.
Are you also looking fo Eva Longoria? ;)
Might have been 20 years ago, but Sumi Somaskanda is where I'm at these days. :)
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It's my Villa mad daughters birthday today. I'm delighted for her at the result...as well as meself. Thanks Villa.
Happy birthday to the young lady Dave and thanks for bringing her up properly.
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It's my Villa mad daughters birthday today. I'm delighted for her at the result...as well as meself. Thanks Villa.
Happy birthday to the young lady Dave and thanks for bringing her up properly.
Yes Happy Villa Birthday.
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Are you also looking fo Eva Longoria? ;)
Might have been 20 years ago, but Sumi Somaskanda is where I'm at these days. :)
I need to google her first before replying.
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The gap between Villa in 5th and the muppets in 6th is the biggest points gap in the whole premier league table. Top 5 breakaway.
Can't quite believe they are 6th given how many games they have lost.
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The gap between Villa in 5th and the muppets in 6th is the biggest points gap in the whole premier league table. Top 5 breakaway.
Can't quite believe they are 6th given how many games they have lost.
They have won 4 out of the last 5 PLgames.
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The gap between Villa in 5th and the muppets in 6th is the biggest points gap in the whole premier league table. Top 5 breakaway.
Can't quite believe they are 6th given how many games they have lost.
They have won 4 out of the last 5 PLgames.
yep without being great but a wins a win
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Effective more than swashbuckling football , no complaints from me though. Tielemams best game in a Villa shirt and shaded McGinn for MOTM for me.
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Scotland have already qualified for the Euros, haven't they? I wonder if they'd use these 2 games to try out some new players and give McGinn a bit of a rest for us.
He could do with getting the “flu”.
Or a "toe infection "
Or lost the keys to his garage...
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Another shit ref, although we know that with this clown.
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The gap between Villa in 5th and the muppets in 6th is the biggest points gap in the whole premier league table. Top 5 breakaway.
Can't quite believe they are 6th given how many games they have lost.
They have won 4 out of the last 5 PLgames.
yep without being great but a wins a win
Wins over Luton, Sheffield United, Fulham and Brentford. 3 teams in the bottom 5 and Brentford in 11th.
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If, and its a big if, we can get 6 points+ from the next 4 - well be in a really good place for a Top 5 finish - which if I understand correctly would be CL football - which would be unbelievable.
I'm looking for 8-10 points from those 4.
I'm looking for 11 points from those 4 . Now that would be unbelievable.
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The gap between Villa in 5th and the muppets in 6th is the biggest points gap in the whole premier league table. Top 5 breakaway.
Can't quite believe they are 6th given how many games they have lost.
They have won 4 out of the last 5 PLgames.
yep without being great but a wins a win
Wins over Luton, Sheffield United, Fulham and Brentford. 3 teams in the bottom 5 and Brentford in 11th.
They have been fortunate to win all of them.
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The gap between Villa in 5th and the muppets in 6th is the biggest points gap in the whole premier league table. Top 5 breakaway.
Can't quite believe they are 6th given how many games they have lost.
They have won 4 out of the last 5 PLgames.
yep without being great but a wins a win
About the 4 wins in five; they have beaten Luton at home 1-0, Fulham away 1-0 (in stoppage time), Sheffield away 2-1, Brentford at home 2-1 (two goals deep into stoppage time). Their
other wins are Burnley away 1-0. Forrest at home 3-2 and Wolves away 1-0 (PGMOL admit mistake not giving Wolves a pen).
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I saw a stat earlier on that said Man U had actually picked up more points than Man City or Arsenal in October (I think)
I remember someone said it on here ages ago that over the past few seasons they've still gotten top 4 finishes by always beating the teams below them. Obviously the higher up the table you are the more teams are below you, but our lost games against Newcastle and Liverpool might not come back to haunt us as much as that loss to Forrest last week.
We could be joint top now, and more importantly, 7 points clear of 6th spot going into a run of really tricky games.
I'd hope we can get something at Spurs. On paper we really should be winning that game. Bournemouth should be 3 points too, but our away form is so up and down. If we can get 6 from those two games then I'd take draws at home to Man City and Arsenal. It's our inability to keep a clean sheet that worries me most, especially against City. But really we should be feeling very confident about those games too.
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The gap between Villa in 5th and the muppets in 6th is the biggest points gap in the whole premier league table. Top 5 breakaway.
Can't quite believe they are 6th given how many games they have lost.
They have won 4 out of the last 5 PLgames.
yep without being great but a wins a win
About the 4 wins in five; they have beaten Luton at home 1-0, Fulham away 1-0 (in stoppage time), Sheffield away 2-1, Brentford at home 2-1 (two goals deep into stoppage time). Their
other wins are Burnley away 1-0. Forrest at home 3-2 and Wolves away 1-0 (PGMOL admit mistake not giving Wolves a pen).
I could be wrong, but I thought the Wolves game was at home. Just as I remember that pen in my mind’s eye.
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Liverpool go to Man City next round if games, Arsenal at Brentford. We could potentially go 2nd with a win at Spuds, keep it going against Bournemouth and we go into the two games against Arsenal and Man City looking at being top going into Christmas.
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It's my Villa mad daughters birthday today. I'm delighted for her at the result...as well as meself. Thanks Villa.
My sister's....although in Cambridgeshire she tunes in to every game and we swap notes afterwards.
Thanks Mr Emery and the boys!
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13 on the bounce, amazing.
Excellent first half, did what we needed to do in the second half but you can bet your life Emery will be infuriated by the lack of control. They’ll be watching that back at Bodymoor tomorrow.
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It's clear that we are feared by virtue of the number of teams that come to Villa Park and try to park the bus against us these days. I was surprised that Fulham were so negative in the first half but it just allowed us to dictate the play.
Only when they were 2 nil down and had to show something did they look like they could play and were a threat.
What Emery has given us is patience and composure so that we will find a way to unlock the 11 men behind the ball puzzle. The main issue with this though is that Diaby struggles a bit when sides are uber-cautious against us as he can't find the space that he needs to use his pace.
Anyway, another good win and like most folk on here have said I thought that John McGinn and not far behind him, Yuri Tielemans, were absolutely outstanding
The Man City game for the home record is going to be a belter. Can't wait.
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The expected result from this Fulham supporter, listened to the first half on the radio, probably sums up our season, hope second season doesn’t catch up with us, the only plus is that Jimenez got his first goal since the pandemic, hope you maintain your position around the the top, i would love it if you kept one of the so called big 6/7 out of the champion league places
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The expected result from this Fulham supporter, listened to the first half on the radio, probably sums up our season, hope second season doesn’t catch up with us, the only plus is that Jimenez got his first goal since the pandemic, hope you maintain your position around the the top, i would love it if you kept one of the so called big 6/7 out of the champion league places
Kind words. Your boys were ultra cautious first half but came out to play second half and looked good. If Silva can take the handbrake off a little you'll be fine.
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We are one of the big 6.
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It's clear that we are feared by virtue of the number of teams that come to Villa Park and try to park the bus against us these days. I was surprised that Fulham were so negative in the first half but it just allowed us to dictate the play.
Only when they were 2 nil down and had to show something did they look like they could play and were a threat.
What Emery has given us is patience and composure so that we will find a way to unlock the 11 men behind the ball puzzle. The main issue with this though is that Diaby struggles a bit when sides are uber-cautious against us as he can't find the space that he needs to use his pace.
Anyway, another good win and like most folk on here have said I thought that John McGinn and not far behind him, Yuri Tielemans, were absolutely outstanding
The Man City game for the home record is going to be a belter. Can't wait.
Teams last did that in the O'Neill seasons.
Difference back then is we had little answer in how to win games at VP if those teams defended set pieces well and also sat deep so Gabby and Young had little space to run into on the counter.
This team can win a game in so many different ways. I also love how we can slow games down to suit our own tempo at various points.
Think we're really pacing ourselves well through this season whereas you watch Newcastle and they already look out on their feet a bit when they play in prem straight after european matches.
Next goal is to make sure we win our group so we don't have a play off round in Feb, that will give us more time to prepare for the prem (and hopefully FA cup) games that month.
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Franky
If you could have put one of the chances away early in the second half it could have been a different result.
We looked a bit jaded and your boys played some good stuff after the break, you are really lacking that cutting edge which is a worry.
I think you have enough to visit us next season.
All the best.
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If we put our chances away the game would have been over by HT. It should have been at least 4-1 with Ollie missing an open net.
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Franky
If you could have put one of the chances away early in the second half it could have been a different result.
We looked a bit jaded and your boys played some good stuff after the break, you are really lacking that cutting edge which is a worry.
I think you have enough to visit us next season.
All the best.
your right that the story of our season, never got a reasonable replacement for Mitrovic, few crucial injuries in defence, I think we’ll probably be okay, only because the three promoted teams look pants, and I think all the players that over performed last season are struggling this season
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Franky
If you could have put one of the chances away early in the second half it could have been a different result.
We looked a bit jaded and your boys played some good stuff after the break, you are really lacking that cutting edge which is a worry.
I think you have enough to visit us next season.
All the best.
your right that the story of our season, never got a reasonable replacement for Mitrovic, few crucial injuries in defence, I think we’ll probably be okay, only because the three promoted teams look pants, and I think all the players that over performed last season are struggling this season
Also.
I think Bassey is very good Centre half.
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Good 3 points and bounce back after last weeks disappointing show. Good 1st half today 2nd half we looked drained . McGinn superb today absolutely at his best .
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Another routine win, getting boring isn’t it.
One of the most surreal moments today was the hospitality box in M4 in the Doug Ellis. They were having a day to remember, sounded like an orgy/full on piss up/back of the Holte choir service. Halfway through the second half one of the young ladies let out what I can only describe as an orgasmic release followed by ‘I love you John’ which then sparked the box in to life with a rendition of Super John McGinn. This took everyone, including L2 & L3 in the lower Holte, by surprise who joined in with getting the song going. Everyone took their eye off the ball and Fulham scored. A crazy 90 seconds and by the sounds of it the best 90 seconds of her life.
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Another routine win, getting boring isn’t it.
One of the most surreal moments today was the hospitality box in M4 in the Doug Ellis. They were having a day to remember, sounded like an orgy/full on piss up/back of the Holte choir service. Halfway through the second half one of the young ladies let out what I can only describe as an orgasmic release followed by ‘I love you John’ which then sparked the box in to life with a rendition of Super John McGinn. This took everyone, including L2 & L3 in the lower Holte, by surprise who joined in with getting the song going. Everyone took their eye off the ball and Fulham scored. A crazy 90 seconds and by the sounds of it the best 90 seconds of her life.
Hmm, I was sat in the Upper Trinity, half way line, and was enjoying that singing breaking out in the DE, until Fulham went straight upfield and scored.
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The expected result from this Fulham supporter, listened to the first half on the radio, probably sums up our season, hope second season doesn’t catch up with us, the only plus is that Jimenez got his first goal since the pandemic, hope you maintain your position around the the top, i would love it if you kept one of the so called big 6/7 out of the champion league places
Wilson was very good when he came on. Bassey I thought was excellent at CB bar getting turned by McGinn late on. You badly need to replace Mitrovic in Jan, can't rely on Vinicius or Jimenez
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Another routine win, getting boring isn’t it.
One of the most surreal moments today was the hospitality box in M4 in the Doug Ellis. They were having a day to remember, sounded like an orgy/full on piss up/back of the Holte choir service. Halfway through the second half one of the young ladies let out what I can only describe as an orgasmic release followed by ‘I love you John’ which then sparked the box in to life with a rendition of Super John McGinn. This took everyone, including L2 & L3 in the lower Holte, by surprise who joined in with getting the song going. Everyone took their eye off the ball and Fulham scored. A crazy 90 seconds and by the sounds of it the best 90 seconds of her life.
Hmm, I was sat in the Upper Trinity, half way line, and was enjoying that singing breaking out in the DE, until Fulham went straight upfield and scored.
It will not be happening again. Funny that there’s a bloke in M4 that tries every game to get something going and gets really pissed off when nobody joins in. He wasn’t their today and it’s the loudest it’s been!
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The expected result from this Fulham supporter, listened to the first half on the radio, probably sums up our season, hope second season doesn’t catch up with us, the only plus is that Jimenez got his first goal since the pandemic, hope you maintain your position around the the top, i would love it if you kept one of the so called big 6/7 out of the champion league places
Thought you were incredibly poor though had a go 2nd half after we'd switched off. Luckily there are 3 worse than you at the moment though this might change as some of them are showing some fight. I'd be very worried if I was a Fulham fan.
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A routine home win but another failure to keep a clean sheet. Fulham looked a better side than West Ham did. Another abysmal referee who seemed to tell Konsa to wait before taking a free kick and then booked him for time wasting while letting Fulham players kick McGinn up in the air without even thinking about a card.
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The expected result from this Fulham supporter, listened to the first half on the radio, probably sums up our season, hope second season doesn’t catch up with us, the only plus is that Jimenez got his first goal since the pandemic, hope you maintain your position around the the top, i would love it if you kept one of the so called big 6/7 out of the champion league places
Cheerst mate. You will cling on this year as worse teams down in mix.
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A routine home win but another failure to keep a clean sheet. Fulham looked a better side than West Ham did. Another abysmal referee who seemed to tell Konsa to wait before taking a free kick and then booked him for time wasting while letting Fulham players kick McGinn up in the air without even thinking about a card.
Can't agree with that , West Ham are light years ahead of Fulham . We had to play really well to beat West Ham whereas today I thought we were below par but it didn't matter.
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West Ham have got decent players but play stone age football, they're not light years ahead of anyone is this division.
Honestly you chat some shite, bigging up West Ham who we dicked and slagging Forest who played as well against us as anyone this season.
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And I swear that ref had left his cards in the dressing room first half.
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A routine home win but another failure to keep a clean sheet. Fulham looked a better side than West Ham did. Another abysmal referee who seemed to tell Konsa to wait before taking a free kick and then booked him for time wasting while letting Fulham players kick McGinn up in the air without even thinking about a card.
Can't agree with that , West Ham are light years ahead of Fulham . We had to play really well to beat West Ham whereas today I thought we were below par but it didn't matter.
That's a lot of hyperbole, as well as saying that Fulham fans should be worried this season. If West Ham are light years ahead of Fulham, I don't know how to currently describe the difference between Fulham and the bottom three.
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West Ham 9th , Fulham 16th . Genuinely there is a level between those two sides.
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West Ham have got decent players but play stone age football, they're not light years ahead of anyone is this division.
Honestly you chat some shite, bigging up West Ham who we dicked and slagging Forest who played as well against us as anyone this season.
we did "dick them" but we played very very well that game as well as we've played all season.
Today we didn't really click that well and 2nd half we were pretty average and leggy yet still won at a canter
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The expected result from this Fulham supporter, listened to the first half on the radio, probably sums up our season, hope second season doesn’t catch up with us, the only plus is that Jimenez got his first goal since the pandemic, hope you maintain your position around the the top, i would love it if you kept one of the so called big 6/7 out of the champion league places
London frankly all I would say is that once you decided to play with Wilson on the pitch you gave us a scare. Better than Palace and Luton. It was the most nervous 3-1 win this season and your boys did better than Everton, Brighton and West Ham so I think you’d be fine.
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Liverpool go to Man City next round if games, Arsenal at Brentford. We could potentially go 2nd with a win at Spuds, keep it going against Bournemouth and we go into the two games against Arsenal and Man City looking at being top going into Christmas.
Just reading that actually blows my mind. To think how much shit we have had to endure in recent its incredible times.
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The expected result from this Fulham supporter, listened to the first half on the radio, probably sums up our season, hope second season doesn’t catch up with us, the only plus is that Jimenez got his first goal since the pandemic, hope you maintain your position around the the top, i would love it if you kept one of the so called big 6/7 out of the champion league places
London frankly all I would say is that once you decided to play with Wilson on the pitch you gave us a scare. Better than Palace and Luton. It was the most nervous 3-1 win this season and your boys did better than Everton, Brighton and West Ham so I think you’d be fine.
It's better to just be honest , they were poor , we didn't play particularly well today . Fulham are fucking awful which is why they've only scored 10 goals all season.
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I didn't realise Watkins cleared the ball that led to his goal. How fast he bombed forward when Bailey won the ball......
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McGinn was different gravy today , once Ramsey is back and firing this team could be absolutely deadly
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Definately tired the second half which led to mistakes, we were a class or two above them and never looked in any danger.
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I didn't realise Watkins cleared the ball that led to his goal. How fast he bombed forward when Bailey won the ball......
Was a great break, the sort of counter attack goal CL sides score.
Had to chuckle at Robinson moaning to the ref and getting booked, was he expecting a free kick for slipping over?!
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SJM MOTD by a mile. Absolutely superb. Got in the head of their best midfielder and dominated the game.
So many moments of excellence.
Good win with everyone else losing. The thing with our current home performances is that whenever we come under pressure I actually expect us to score again. We did it today and we’ve done it before at home to west ham and Brighton. We are really in such a special place right now.
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I was disappointed not to see a Zaniolo 'worldie™' but you can't have it all.
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I was disappointed not to see a Zaniolo 'worldie™' but you can't have it all.
Same. There's more chance of me scoring a 'worldie' than him, but we live in moderate hope.
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I've not seen it mentioned on here and most of us were nonplussed at the time but after the penalty was overturned why did the ref not give us the corner?
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I've not seen it mentioned on here and most of us were nonplussed at the time but after the penalty was overturned why did the ref not give us the corner?
it was certainly a talking point in our sections, maybe he saw the ball rebound off Watkins on the replay? Did the ball not hit the defenders arm? I haven't seen it again.
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1st half in total control, 2nd half they changed things, and Wilson made a difference for them
The performance of McGinn was superb.
Another fantastic result, in December in the 76/77 season on a Wednesday evening we beat Liverpool 5-1, lets hope that we repeat the result against City
Our December fixtures are tough, if we can still be 5th by end of December, then finishing in the top 4 is a real possibility
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I've not seen it mentioned on here and most of us were nonplussed at the time but after the penalty was overturned why did the ref not give us the corner?
it was certainly a talking point in our sections, maybe he saw the ball rebound off Watkins on the replay? Did the ball not hit the defenders arm? I haven't seen it again.
Because once he blew for the penalty, the ball was effectively dead, so the fact that it went out after that didn't mean it was a corner.
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I've not seen it mentioned on here and most of us were nonplussed at the time but after the penalty was overturned why did the ref not give us the corner?
it was certainly a talking point in our sections, maybe he saw the ball rebound off Watkins on the replay? Did the ball not hit the defenders arm? I haven't seen it again.
At a guess, it must be something like once the ref awards the penalty on field, then all subsequent play is deemed as the ball being dead. The ref dropped the ball to the keeper rather than a goal kick being taken.
It was a poor decision to give the penalty initially. The ball only hit the defender in the face
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I've not seen it mentioned on here and most of us were nonplussed at the time but after the penalty was overturned why did the ref not give us the corner?
it was certainly a talking point in our sections, maybe he saw the ball rebound off Watkins on the replay? Did the ball not hit the defenders arm? I haven't seen it again.
Because once he blew for the penalty, the ball was effectively dead, so the fact that it went out after that didn't mean it was a corner.
Didn't he give a drop ball of sorts? Leno was taking a few touches then passed it.
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I've not seen it mentioned on here and most of us were nonplussed at the time but after the penalty was overturned why did the ref not give us the corner?
it was certainly a talking point in our sections, maybe he saw the ball rebound off Watkins on the replay? Did the ball not hit the defenders arm? I haven't seen it again.
Because once he blew for the penalty, the ball was effectively dead, so the fact that it went out after that didn't mean it was a corner.
But then the game has to restart with a drop ball not a goal kick I don't think that's what happened.
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Surely the ball was out before he blew?
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The ball was dead. I think play will always start with a drop ball when a penalty is given and then rescinded. They'd have to change the protocols to give a corner.
I don't think the referee got much wrong yesterday but he was getting pelters for every decision because of the VAR anger, even when he correctly pulled back a free kick when the ball was moving, for example
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Thanks all, apologies due to the ref who I called all the names under the sun. Helps to know the rules I suppose.
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Can we challenge for the drop ball?
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The ball was dead. I think play will always start with a drop ball when a penalty is given and then rescinded. They'd have to change the protocols to give a corner.
I don't think the referee got much wrong yesterday but he was getting pelters for every decision because of the VAR anger, even when he correctly pulled back a free kick when the ball was moving, for example
So the more equitable way to officiate this type of scenario is to let the ball go out for a corner and then ‘review’ if it was a penalty or not. Otherwise the attacking team is unduly robbed of a corner.
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The ball was dead. I think play will always start with a drop ball when a penalty is given and then rescinded. They'd have to change the protocols to give a corner.
I don't think the referee got much wrong yesterday but he was getting pelters for every decision because of the VAR anger, even when he correctly pulled back a free kick when the ball was moving, for example
So the more equitable way to officiate this type of scenario is to let the ball go out for a corner and then ‘review’ if it was a penalty or not. Otherwise the attacking team is unduly robbed of a corner.
Then you have the scenario of allowing play to continue when it's offside in case there is a goal. And that still riles people up even though it's been four years
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The ball was dead. I think play will always start with a drop ball when a penalty is given and then rescinded. They'd have to change the protocols to give a corner.
I don't think the referee got much wrong yesterday but he was getting pelters for every decision because of the VAR anger, even when he correctly pulled back a free kick when the ball was moving, for example
So the more equitable way to officiate this type of scenario is to let the ball go out for a corner and then ‘review’ if it was a penalty or not. Otherwise the attacking team is unduly robbed of a corner.
Then you have the scenario of allowing play to continue when it's offside in case there is a goal. And that still riles people up even though it's been four years
I see your point, but am not advocating for it to happen for all penalty shouts when play can go on for some time afterwards, a la offsides. Just for the very specific scenarios where deflections have gone out - it’s presumably an extra second or two delayed before the decision gets made?
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I didn't realise Watkins cleared the ball that led to his goal. How fast he bombed forward when Bailey won the ball......
Ollie defends that front post really well these days. We don't concede that many at set piece time despite having very few players strong in the air, good coaching.
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The ball was dead. I think play will always start with a drop ball when a penalty is given and then rescinded. They'd have to change the protocols to give a corner.
I don't think the referee got much wrong yesterday but he was getting pelters for every decision because of the VAR anger, even when he correctly pulled back a free kick when the ball was moving, for example
So the more equitable way to officiate this type of scenario is to let the ball go out for a corner and then ‘review’ if it was a penalty or not. Otherwise the attacking team is unduly robbed of a corner.
Then you have the scenario of allowing play to continue when it's offside in case there is a goal. And that still riles people up even though it's been four years
I see your point, but am not advocating for it to happen for all penalty shouts when play can go on for some time afterwards, a la offsides. Just for the very specific scenarios where deflections have gone out - it’s presumably an extra second or two delayed before the decision gets made?
I think there's common sense in that but writing the laws of football is pretty difficult to account for all scenarios so I guess they went with dead ball for everything when a penalty is rescinded. It's not perfect admittedly.
What they really need to be better at is explaining decisions in the ground. There was a lot of anger yesterday and most of it stemmed from that penalty scenario even though the referee was fine
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I thought the ref was poor. He let Fulham get away with that cyclical fouling for the majority of the game, only producing yellows towards the end. I lost count of the times JMG was upended, a card would have certainly reduced this.
This sort of rotational fouling is far more of an issue than dissent or time wasting yet is permitted week after week. As is the delayed offside flag which is massively inconsistent and hugely infuriating.
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Although I agree that the ref did nothing wrong in reversing his decision and awarding the drop ball, I thought it helped get the crowd up early in the game which went on to help the overall atmosphere.
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Good win and only three points off the top it's looking good for us.
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I thought the ref was poor. He let Fulham get away with that cyclical fouling for the majority of the game, only producing yellows towards the end. I lost count of the times JMG was upended, a card would have certainly reduced this.
This sort of rotational fouling is far more of an issue than dissent or time wasting yet is permitted week after week. As is the delayed offside flag which is massively inconsistent and hugely infuriating.
We were talking at the game about the Rugby Union approach of giving a warning to the captain about persistent (rotational) offending and then the next player gets carded, regardless of whether they've committed any previous fouls.
However, as we know from the 'moving a free kick forward 10 metres' experiment of a few years ago and the current refusal to introduce proper head injury assessments, football doesn't like using solutions from rugby.
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Franky
If you could have put one of the chances away early in the second half it could have been a different result.
We looked a bit jaded and your boys played some good stuff after the break, you are really lacking that cutting edge which is a worry.
I think you have enough to visit us next season.
All the best.
your right that the story of our season, never got a reasonable replacement for Mitrovic, few crucial injuries in defence, I think we’ll probably be okay, only because the three promoted teams look pants, and I think all the players that over performed last season are struggling this season
Also.
I think Bassey is very good Centre half.
Cant pass the ball for shit though...
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I thought the ref was poor. He let Fulham get away with that cyclical fouling for the majority of the game, only producing yellows towards the end. I lost count of the times JMG was upended, a card would have certainly reduced this.
This sort of rotational fouling is far more of an issue than dissent or time wasting yet is permitted week after week. As is the delayed offside flag which is massively inconsistent and hugely infuriating.
The delayed flag is maddening, but I was thinking yesterday that so many teams who are now playing the high line are able to do with more certainty than before because in most cases the decision is correct. Without VAR I doubt those clubs would trust the officials to get marginal calls correct any more than 50% of the time.
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It's more maddening when one linesman does it and the one on the other side doesn't.
How do you fix it though. If it's marginal when do you put up your flag - or do you run the move to its conclusion?
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I think VAR is essential for us as we deploy a very cute hi line however late flag punishes our clever play. Our defenders have to unnecessarily expand effort to defend illegal play. This is not good and and they need to fix it in favour of good football.
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Although I agree that the ref did nothing wrong in reversing his decision and awarding the drop ball, I thought it helped get the crowd up early in the game which went on to help the overall atmosphere.
The drop ball was wrong as the ball had gone out for a corner but I accept your point and yes it worked in our favour.
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It's more maddening when one linesman does it and the one on the other side doesn't.
How do you fix it though. If it's marginal when do you put up your flag - or do you run the move to its conclusion?
The guidance is to put the flag up immediately if it's obvious but I have seen more reluctance to put the flag up this season as they're more scared of making mistakes and just pass it to VAR.
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I've not seen it mentioned on here and most of us were nonplussed at the time but after the penalty was overturned why did the ref not give us the corner?
it was certainly a talking point in our sections, maybe he saw the ball rebound off Watkins on the replay? Did the ball not hit the defenders arm? I haven't seen it again.
Because once he blew for the penalty, the ball was effectively dead, so the fact that it went out after that didn't mean it was a corner.
I've watched it back. The ref blows after the ball has gone over the goal line. Surely that's the time when the ball is dead.
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We were talking at the game about the Rugby Union approach of giving a warning to the captain about persistent (rotational) offending and then the next player gets carded, regardless of whether they've committed any previous fouls.
I used to do that when I reffed junior and local-league games. It worked remarkably well in reducing persistent fouling.
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I've not seen it mentioned on here and most of us were nonplussed at the time but after the penalty was overturned why did the ref not give us the corner?
it was certainly a talking point in our sections, maybe he saw the ball rebound off Watkins on the replay? Did the ball not hit the defenders arm? I haven't seen it again.
Because once he blew for the penalty, the ball was effectively dead, so the fact that it went out after that didn't mean it was a corner.
I've watched it back. The ref blows after the ball has gone over the goal line. Surely that's the time when the ball is dead.
The protocol states the sequence of events, not the ball going out of play. The ref blowing for a penalty makes the ball dead from the point of the incident, not the ball crossing the line.
The referee applied that correctly so it would take a rule change to make it a corner post-VAR check
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Whilst the delayed offside flag can be frustrating, it's much better than being given offside when it isn't.
So think it's something we just have to put up with.
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But linesman putting their flag up 30 seconds after the offence occurs is crazy. Let the game play to its conclusion then go back. Would that be better?
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I've not seen it mentioned on here and most of us were nonplussed at the time but after the penalty was overturned why did the ref not give us the corner?
it was certainly a talking point in our sections, maybe he saw the ball rebound off Watkins on the replay? Did the ball not hit the defenders arm? I haven't seen it again.
Because once he blew for the penalty, the ball was effectively dead, so the fact that it went out after that didn't mean it was a corner.
I've watched it back. The ref blows after the ball has gone over the goal line. Surely that's the time when the ball is dead.
The protocol states the sequence of events, not the ball going out of play. The ref blowing for a penalty makes the ball dead from the point of the incident, not the ball crossing the line.
The referee applied that correctly so it would take a rule change to make it a corner post-VAR check
That's right. Say a couple of seconds after the penalty incident, the ball is hoofed up the other end and somebody lobs the keeper to score as the ref is blowing the whistle. The important point in time is the penalty being given, not what happens afterwards. If VAR then rules out the penalty, they're not then going to give the goal that was scored.
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Imagine if the ref was mic'd up - he'd be able to explain that and stop a load of te abuse. Same for the handball.
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Ok thanks. Just out of interest does the drop ball have to go to the defending team?
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Imagine if the ref was mic'd up - he'd be able to explain that and stop a load of te abuse. Same for the handball.
it hit the blokes face not his hand , that was pretty clear on the TV replays
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Ok thanks. Just out of interest does the drop ball have to go to the defending team?
Yep. From the Premier League rules site:
"If a penalty decision is overturned with no infringement by the attacking team, play will restart with an uncontested drop ball for the defending team."
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Imagine if the ref was mic'd up - he'd be able to explain that and stop a load of te abuse. Same for the handball.
I'm not sure football fans will accept actual facts that readily to be honest.
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Just tough luck that we lose the attacking impetus because of the referee's mistake then.
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But linesman putting their flag up 30 seconds after the offence occurs is crazy. Let the game play to its conclusion then go back. Would that be better?
They are advised to delay the flag in case it leads to a goal. Then they put the flag up to advise that the on-field decision is offside even if a goal is scored so VAR has to confirm / deny it. If there isn't a goal scoring chance, but the ball is still in play, then they also flag as VAR wouldn't go back that far to call it.
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Imagine if the ref was mic'd up - he'd be able to explain that and stop a load of te abuse. Same for the handball.
it hit the blokes face not his hand , that was pretty clear on the TV replays
The sky commentators were adamant it was still handball on the initial replays as they had it from a different angle. It was only when the still image was shown to the ref of the ball hitting face that it was called back, (although there was nothing fully disproving the ball didn't brush arm then face before being deflected even in the still). close brackets.
I thought VAR rules were that the decisive images should then be shown to the TV audience which didn't seem to happen on MOTD at least
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That VAR replay was a farce. I think it was the right decision, but seeing one still image couldn't possibly have demonstrated to the ref that he'd made an obvious error. You surely need to show what happened a couple of seconds before and after?
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But linesman putting their flag up 30 seconds after the offence occurs is crazy. Let the game play to its conclusion then go back. Would that be better?
They are advised to delay the flag in case it leads to a goal. Then they put the flag up to advise that the on-field decision is offside even if a goal is scored so VAR has to confirm / deny it. If there isn't a goal scoring chance, but the ball is still in play, then they also flag as VAR wouldn't go back that far to call it.
So wouldn't they be better not flagging at all?
If it's a goal and it was onside - the goal stands
If it's a goal, but offside this would be checked by VAR.
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Persistent rotational fouling - our next home game opponents, they are the masters of it. Bet the ref does not take any action then either.
On another note - i love how SUE never bemoans officials, VAR decisions or even our shit injury list and just is respectful and takes what happens and focusses on the next game. Love him
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But linesman putting their flag up 30 seconds after the offence occurs is crazy. Let the game play to its conclusion then go back. Would that be better?
They are advised to delay the flag in case it leads to a goal. Then they put the flag up to advise that the on-field decision is offside even if a goal is scored so VAR has to confirm / deny it. If there isn't a goal scoring chance, but the ball is still in play, then they also flag as VAR wouldn't go back that far to call it.
So wouldn't they be better not flagging at all?
If it's a goal and it was onside - the goal stands
If it's a goal, but offside this would be checked by VAR.
By doing that, it changes the entire path of the game. They don't flag initially if there is a chance of an immediate goal. It's five seconds, maybe ten seconds. They then go back to the free kick because that's where play would have stopped without VAR.
You can't let either team gain an advantage from where the ball ends up following a missed chance because they are only playing on until the point the chance is scored/missed and no more
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I'm at a loss how to fix this in an acceptable way?
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I'm at a loss how to fix this in an acceptable way?
Get rid of VAR and if the assistant ref thinks it's offside he raises his flag to indicate so to the referee. The referee then halts play and awards a free kick.
It worked perfectly well before, given there will always be a margin for error becuase the officials are human.
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Isn't the danger of a late flag that a clearly offside player can benefit by being played back onside by a defender "intentionally playing a ball" (that is not a save) who then scores and the offside player is not punished for an illegal play?
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I'm at a loss how to fix this in an acceptable way?
Yeah, I'm not either. I suppose you could say that assistant only raises a flag if a goal.is scored and it is just play on otherwise, but then there could still be an advantage if the ball goes out for a corner or the attacking team still have it in the final third.
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I'm at a loss how to fix this in an acceptable way?
Get rid of VAR and if the assistant ref thinks it's offside he raises his flag to indicate so to the referee. The referee then halts play and awards a free kick.
It worked perfectly well before, given there will always be a margin for error becuase the officials are human.
Problem with that is their mates in the top 4 would probably gain from that, where as VAR can check it
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I think the practice of late flagging will eventually lead to an injury from some last ditch tackling and will only be reviewed when it happens to a high profile player.
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I think the practice of late flagging will eventually lead to an injury from some last ditch tackling and will only be reviewed when it happens to a high profile player.
I’m not sure but at the time someone said there was an offside when Mings was injured.
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I think the practice of late flagging will eventually lead to an injury from some last ditch tackling and will only be reviewed when it happens to a high profile player.
I’m not sure but at the time someone said there was an offside Mings was injured.
That's my recollection too.
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Semi Automated Offside technology will eventually lead to there being no linesmen anyway - https://www.fifa.com/technical/football-technology/football-technologies-and-innovations-at-the-fifa-world-cup-2022/semi-automated-offside-technology.
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I think the practice of late flagging will eventually lead to an injury from some last ditch tackling and will only be reviewed when it happens to a high profile player.
I’m not sure but at the time someone said there was an offside when Mings was injured.
Correct - the injury occurred before the linesman flagged for offside. If it had been flagged seconds earlier Mings may have not done his ACL .... but that is, of course, speculative.
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I'm at a loss how to fix this in an acceptable way?
Get rid of VAR and if the assistant ref thinks it's offside he raises his flag to indicate so to the referee. The referee then halts play and awards a free kick.
It worked perfectly well before, given there will always be a margin for error becuase the officials are human.
Problem with that is their mates in the top 4 would probably gain from that, where as VAR can check it
I would be in favour of this. But we'd have to change our style of play. Our high-line would be too risky without VAR.
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I am in favour of clubs having 2 VAR appeals. Leave it all up to the ref but if you feel an injustice has been done appeal. Win your appeal and you retain 2 appeals. Lose it and you've lost one of your appeals.
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This will add even more time to a game if teams win their reviews and then they are able to have more reviews.
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I'm at a loss how to fix this in an acceptable way?
Get rid of VAR and if the assistant ref thinks it's offside he raises his flag to indicate so to the referee. The referee then halts play and awards a free kick.
It worked perfectly well before, given there will always be a margin for error becuase the officials are human.
Amen! Totally agree.
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You shouldn’t need a load of debate on offside, it should be pretty much automated.
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You shouldn’t need a load of debate on offside, it should be pretty much automated.
The system is available and used in some leagues. The EPL have refused to adopt it.
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Which leagues?
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You shouldn’t need a load of debate on offside, it should be pretty much automated.
The system is available and used in some leagues. The EPL have refused to adopt it.
It wouldn't give them room for "unconscious bias" or changing the rules of the game for a couple of weeks to suit.
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Plus, as it's interpreted now with interfering, touches from defenders, phases of play etc., there's too many variables for it to be a simple yes/no decision. It'll still need a decision from someone on the pitch.
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You shouldn’t need a load of debate on offside, it should be pretty much automated.
The system is available and used in some leagues. The EPL have refused to adopt it.
It wouldn't give them room for "unconscious bias" or changing the rules of the game for a couple of weeks to suit.
Exactly
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Which leagues?
Serie A , ECL, World Cup all use the semi automated system which would at least takeaway the idiots in stockley park drawing the lines incorrectly!
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I didn't realise they used it in Italy. Good. It has to be progressed. You can't put this genie back in the bottle.
I still don't think it should be used for anything else. Perceived objectivity derived through subjective consensus led to supposedly enlightened man spending eons believing spiders had six legs. Not good.
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The way VAR is implemented here is the worst of both worlds - it has solved a bunch of problems, but introduced a whole new, other bunch of (potentially larger) problems.
That audio footage from that Liverpool 'offside' at Spurs showed it - a total clusterfuck of people talking at the same time, no clearly defined method of communication whatsoever, and they had no idea what they were saying yes or no about. Added to that, the hilarity of realising 30 seconds later they'd fucked it up but 'we can't stop the match' - why not? You don't have any problem stopping matches for 4 or 5 minutes after a goal.
Then, to top it all, they were slapping each other on the back, "great process, guys".
Jesus fucking Christ. Where to begin with ineptitude like that? It isn't a problem of technology, it is the human element that is fucking it up.
I genuinely think that Spurs / Liverpool exchange would make a brilliant case study for management / business schools.
I am surprised Malcolm Gladwell hasn't already stuck it in a book somewhere.
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The way VAR is implemented here is the worst of both worlds - it has solved a bunch of problems, but introduced a whole new, other bunch of (potentially larger) problems.
That audio footage from that Liverpool 'offside' at Spurs showed it - a total clusterfuck of people talking at the same time, no clearly defined method of communication whatsoever, and they had no idea what they were saying yes or no about. Added to that, the hilarity of realising 30 seconds later they'd fucked it up but 'we can't stop the match' - why not? You don't have any problem stopping matches for 4 or 5 minutes after a goal.
Then, to top it all, they were slapping each other on the back, "great process, guys".
Jesus fucking Christ. Where to begin with ineptitude like that? It isn't a problem of technology, it is the human element that is fucking it up.
I genuinely think that Spurs / Liverpool exchange would make a brilliant case study for management / business schools.
I am surprised Malcolm Gladwell hasn't already stuck it in a book somewhere.
Exactly. It's extraordinary that a multi-billion dollar business has something so utterly half-arsed. It's like they've bought the video technology, then just stuck 4 twats in a room and told them to get on with it.
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I wouldn't lump the video technician in with them. He did his job exemplary and was the only one to notice the actual refs fuckup.
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I wouldn't lump the video technician in with them. He did his job exemplary and was the only one to notice the actual refs fuckup.
It's not actually any of the refs' fault either, whether on the pitch or in Stockley Park. The Premier League and PGMOL should have introduced a strict and defined procedure and rules of communication to be followed in all cases. Any football fan with half a brain could knock something up in 5 minutes. eg.
On field ref: "Goal scored by team X, the on field decision is to award the goal, please check for possible offside. Also possible foul by player Y in build up."
Head of VAR: "Understood, please pause restart whilst the video operators look at the offside and foul."
Head of VAR: "Video bloke, please check offside. Video bloke 2, please give your opinion on the possible foul."
Video bloke: "Lines drawn on goal scorer player Z following pass from Player A. No other players interfering with play. Lines indicate player Z was onside."
Video bloke 2: "Have checked foul, video replay inconclusive so has not passed the clear and obvious error threshold."
Head of VAR: "Are we all happy that the decision to award the goal is correct"
Video bloke: "Yes"
Video bloke 2: "Yes"
Head of Var: "Onfield ref, the desion to award the goal was correct, please restart play."
Everybody only talking when asked to contribute. Starts with the ref, and ends with the VAR chief, obviously with similar sequences depending on the situation.
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This will add even more time to a game if teams win their reviews and then they are able to have more reviews.
I felt positively about the idea previously but we'd just end up with a really annoying situation where teams would appeal just to waste time, stop the opposition's momentum or just to be annoying.
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Which leagues?
Serie A , ECL, World Cup all use the semi automated system which would at least takeaway the idiots in stockley park drawing the lines incorrectly!
We hear a lot about them doing var better across Europe but we had European officials for the AZ Alkmaar game and they screwed up badly. They've since apologised for disallowing the Lenglet goal and their goal was clearly offside but the lines appeared to be drawn in the wrong place. Using a semi automated system might be better but it's not going to be perfect. Still open to debate. It's only going to be 100% accurate if the sensors can tell the exact moment the ball loses contact with the passing players boot. It really boils my piss when commentators lazily say "you're either on or your off. Simple" Because it's not. It's really not.
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The way VAR is implemented here is the worst of both worlds - it has solved a bunch of problems, but introduced a whole new, other bunch of (potentially larger) problems.
That audio footage from that Liverpool 'offside' at Spurs showed it - a total clusterfuck of people talking at the same time, no clearly defined method of communication whatsoever, and they had no idea what they were saying yes or no about. Added to that, the hilarity of realising 30 seconds later they'd fucked it up but 'we can't stop the match' - why not? You don't have any problem stopping matches for 4 or 5 minutes after a goal.
Then, to top it all, they were slapping each other on the back, "great process, guys".
Jesus fucking Christ. Where to begin with ineptitude like that? It isn't a problem of technology, it is the human element that is fucking it up.
I genuinely think that Spurs / Liverpool exchange would make a brilliant case study for management / business schools.
I am surprised Malcolm Gladwell hasn't already stuck it in a book somewhere.
Excellent rant mate. Spot on.
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going to be 100% accurate if the sensors can tell the exact moment the ball loses contact with the passing players boot. It really boils my piss when commentators lazily say "you're either on or your off. Simple" Because it's not. It's really not.
Exactly, to get that accuracy it would need sensors in every player's boot and the ball, and I imagine that would be difficult to make foolproof seeing as the whole point of football is to twat the ball as hard as physically possible a lot of the time.
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How the Italian system works
https://www.wionews.com/sports/semi-automated-offside-var-at-serie-a-league-2022-2023-hunt-for-new-aia-president-544703
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The ball contains an accelerometer which is very sensitive, and the players on the whole pitch are monitored by multiple cameras to pin point their location and more important, the extremity location. Obviously more tech means more chance of failures of said tech which could mean game abandonment because a pigeon has shit on a camera.
It certainly wouldn't need a boot sensor, especially as headers are not done with a boot. The semi-auto is the positions and lines are all done in seconds, then the deliberation of whether interfering with play / deliberate play of the ball is made by the var ref/ on field ref.
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I'm not sure how precise the geo tags are these days but possibly a tag on the chest of each shirt that pinpoints the players and go off that.
No arms, legs or feet required. It can't be that far off.
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The expected result from this Fulham supporter, listened to the first half on the radio, probably sums up our season, hope second season doesn’t catch up with us, the only plus is that Jimenez got his first goal since the pandemic, hope you maintain your position around the the top, i would love it if you kept one of the so called big 6/7 out of the champion league places
Good luck for the rest of the season, Franky! For what it's worth, i think you're far more likely to end up mid table than in a relegation battle this year. Tricky season so far but the players you've got aren't that bad IMO. Rather have your squad than Everton's or Bournemouth's anyway!
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I'm not sure how precise the geo tags are these days but possibly a tag on the chest of each shirt that pinpoints the players and go off that.
No arms, legs or feet required. It can't be that far off.
Not precise enough. And even if they were, a player facing forwards chest would be ahead of a defender facing the other direction. So level would have to have a leeway of a 12 inches or so, which is probably enough that a majority of the offsides we have caught players in might not be given as offside.
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The ball contains an accelerometer which is very sensitive, and the players on the whole pitch are monitored by multiple cameras to pin point their location and more important, the extremity location. Obviously more tech means more chance of failures of said tech which could mean game abandonment because a pigeon has shit on a camera.
It certainly wouldn't need a boot sensor, especially as headers are not done with a boot. The semi-auto is the positions and lines are all done in seconds, then the deliberation of whether interfering with play / deliberate play of the ball is made by the var ref/ on field ref.
But the only way to obtain the absolute accuracy their ridiculous lines are aiming for is to know the exact moment when the ball stops being in contact with the player making the pass. Otherwise, a difference of a few millimetres might be the difference between the player being onside or not.
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I don't understand how they make it so difficult. Go back to the principal that VAR is there for clear and obvious mistakes. Let the linesman make a call at the end of the play. If the linesman thought it was onside then have a tolerance to advantage the attackers - say 10cm. If not, use absolute lines and just make a much quicker decision!
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I agree stomper. VAR was brought in to rule out clear and obvious errors, but on offside they've tried to be millimetre perfect.
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I agree stomper. VAR was brought in to rule out clear and obvious errors, but on offside they've tried to be millimetre perfect.
Which is absolutely impossible given the frame rate of replays & the angles used to see when the ball is actually released...
Most of the focus seems to be on the player receiving the ball, but I don't think enough attention is given to the ball 'releaser' when they are attempting to be toenail fluff accurate...
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The margins of error need to allow for that. That's when the essence of the law is being forgotten about.
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The semi automated system seemed to work well at the World Cup.
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The semi automated system seemed to work well at the World Cup.
Takes a few cameras to get the body positions, but even if we take the sensor at the centre of the football that detects the kick point, at least thats one area of offside that officials don't have to worry about.
All they are then concerned with is the position of the bodies, as the kick point is already calculated & is a baseline for every single footballer & every single kick forward.
And if we can insert the cameras that take the body & limb positions at a later date, then great...
But the kick point is a pretty important element of offside that is often overlooked due to the video technology not allowing for precise accuracy...
Which is a bit shit, when they are drawing lines the width of a gnats pube...
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The ball contains an accelerometer which is very sensitive, and the players on the whole pitch are monitored by multiple cameras to pin point their location and more important, the extremity location. Obviously more tech means more chance of failures of said tech which could mean game abandonment because a pigeon has shit on a camera.
It certainly wouldn't need a boot sensor, especially as headers are not done with a boot. The semi-auto is the positions and lines are all done in seconds, then the deliberation of whether interfering with play / deliberate play of the ball is made by the var ref/ on field ref.
Wait a minute. An accelerometer? That's what Mr Burns tells Smithers to press when he's chauffeuring him round in the Simpsons.
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At the moment it's a shit show and any help from tech should be gratefully received
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I thought the introduction of the original 'tech' was supposed to solve all issues?
Does anyone really think further tech is going to make things better?
I said earlier about the geo tags but honestly, it's fucking ridiculous isn't it? Multiple cameras, cutting edge tech, trams of people poring over them in a specially designated location, protocols, pitchside monitors, blah blah fucking blah, and for what? To be worse off than we were before.
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We don't know how bad it was before as the errors were never checked or scrutinised. I imagine it was horrendous
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It's the same whenever technology meets fallible humans. Aeroplanes for a, possibly, melodramatic example: the tech is solid, they work like they're engineered to. The only reason there are any fuck ups is because of stupid human intervention.
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I thought the introduction of the original 'tech' was supposed to solve all issues?
Does anyone really think further tech is going to make things better?
I said earlier about the geo tags but honestly, it's fucking ridiculous isn't it? Multiple cameras, cutting edge tech, trams of people poring over them in a specially designated location, protocols, pitchside monitors, blah blah fucking blah, and for what? To be worse off than we were before.
This is exactly it. The whole element of this thread has tuned me out, because its so bloody dull…no offence to anyone intended, but cutting edge tech ensuring decisions are to the tenth of a millimetre correct, so what!
I have not looked at one VAR offside decision against a team, when VAR has correctly called offside because someones nostril hair was slightly further forward than the last defender and thought great, this makes the game so much better.
Maybe my memory fails me, but I don’t remember a massive clamour from supporters for this. It was the high profile managers ranting and calling out referees sometimes correctly, sometimes incorrectly but completely blinded by their own bias, er, exactly whats still happening now, except now we have the soul sapping experience of every single goal being viewed and us having to wait for even the most obvious decisions to be rechecked. Its sucking the joy out of it.
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It's the same whenever technology meets fallible humans. Aeroplanes for a, possibly, melodramatic example: the tech is solid, they work like they're engineered to. The only reason there are any fuck ups is because of stupid human intervention.
I agree, we just don't trust machines, even though they've got no reason or motive to lie or be wrong (yet).
You mention 'planes, then there's autonomous vehicles. "They're awful, did you hear about that one that crashed?". Cocking a deaf 'un to the thousands of crashes that occurred on the same day when a human was allegedly in control.
And medicine. Pile all your symptoms and profile into an algorithm and it'll tell you, almost certainly, what's wrong with you. But we'd rather believe a fallible human who's due at the golf club later because, well, he was wearing a tie.
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It's the same whenever technology meets fallible humans. Aeroplanes for a, possibly, melodramatic example: the tech is solid, they work like they're engineered to. The only reason there are any fuck ups is because of stupid human intervention.
MCAS?
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I agree stomper. VAR was brought in to rule out clear and obvious errors, but on offside they've tried to be millimetre perfect.
Yep. And if they all said that unless the mistake is glaringly obvious, then the benefit of the doubt goes to the attacking player then it would be overwhelmingly accepted. Because it would and should be the same for everyone. This is where it has failed and why it takes an eternity to make a decision. In the NFL, they go with the on field ruling. So in offside, if the lines official doesn’t raise his/her flag then the VAR check would need to clearly show the player was offside. If it cannot be determined a matter of seconds then the onside ruling would stand. Same the other way around. Would it be perfect? No. But it works both ways and a damn sight better than where we are today.
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We don't know how bad it was before as the errors were never checked or scrutinised. I imagine it was horrendous
The game survived for one hundred years plus without too much carping. Sure there were errors but we went away, moaned a bit but we're there again the next week. It couldn't have been all that bad because the game evolved into the most popular field sport in the world.
I'm all for improvement and consistency, which, is only my opinion, you're never going to have, and therein lies the main problem. Without being patronising and condescending, unless you've actually been involved as a match official and all that goes with it regularly you just don't realise. Take VAR and put it where it belongs, in the bin!
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We don't know how bad it was before as the errors were never checked or scrutinised. I imagine it was horrendous
I'm guessing you never watched a Premier League, European or international match on telly prior to the introduction of VAR.
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I thought the introduction of the original 'tech' was supposed to solve all issues?
Does anyone really think further tech is going to make things better?
I said earlier about the geo tags but honestly, it's fucking ridiculous isn't it? Multiple cameras, cutting edge tech, trams of people poring over them in a specially designated location, protocols, pitchside monitors, blah blah fucking blah, and for what? To be worse off than we were before.
This is exactly it. The whole element of this thread has tuned me out, because its so bloody dull…no offence to anyone intended, but cutting edge tech ensuring decisions are to the tenth of a millimetre correct, so what!
I have not looked at one VAR offside decision against a team, when VAR has correctly called offside because someones nostril hair was slightly further forward than the last defender and thought great, this makes the game so much better.
Maybe my memory fails me, but I don’t remember a massive clamour from supporters for this. It was the high profile managers ranting and calling out referees sometimes correctly, sometimes incorrectly but completely blinded by their own bias, er, exactly whats still happening now, except now we have the soul sapping experience of every single goal being viewed and us having to wait for even the most obvious decisions to be rechecked. Its sucking the joy out of it.
But its not us as fans who are trying to make these decisions gnats pube accurate.
The concern & suggestion that I personally raised is purely to help fix the problem of them getting help with what they are currently doing.
If I had my way, if a player is in an offside position & he makes a move towards the ball, then it should be considered offside. No first phase, no off a defender who has intended to play the ball, or any other complication that needs a degree in physics & mathematics to be able to understand.
We need to simplify the whole process.
Mostly because footballers are as thick as pig shit, but 99% of officials either don't know or understand the rules & it is often left to my age old rules & regulations nemesis, "subjectivity".
No rules & regulations should be "subjective".
Otherwise we are not playing on a level & fair playing field.
And that 'simplification of rules & regulations' argument could be made across the board, not just offside.
But I know that isn't going to happen, so we work with & discuss improvements to the current situation...
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Amazing how many people want VAR changed specifically for offside when our highline works, not just because of the tick-tock of our defenders, but because VAR will pick up the narrow offsides.
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We don't know how bad it was before as the errors were never checked or scrutinised. I imagine it was horrendous
I'm guessing you never watched a Premier League, European or international match on telly prior to the introduction of VAR.
eh ? we never had the cameras showing umpteen replays of decisions that looked wrong. It wasn't in the DNA back then
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We don't know how bad it was before as the errors were never checked or scrutinised. I imagine it was horrendous
I'm guessing you never watched a Premier League, European or international match on telly prior to the introduction of VAR.
eh ? we never had the cameras showing umpteen replays of decisions that looked wrong. It wasn't in the DNA back then
1966 World Cup final wants a word.
However until Sky came along, most matches were not televised or had a solitary camera for MOTD highlights. That was 30 years ago. Since then, there has been loads of contentious decisions shown a month.
2010 was when VAR was first considered after FIFA had previously rubbished it. The Lampard "Goal" in the 2010 world cup seemed to be the catalyst for it and probably was more through embarrasment on such an error at a prestigious tournament a week or so after Blatter had said no.
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Amazing how many people want VAR changed specifically for offside when our highline works, not just because of the tick-tock of our defenders, but because VAR will pick up the narrow offsides.
This. We need VAR.
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We don't know how bad it was before as the errors were never checked or scrutinised. I imagine it was horrendous
I'm guessing you never watched a Premier League, European or international match on telly prior to the introduction of VAR.
eh ? we never had the cameras showing umpteen replays of decisions that looked wrong. It wasn't in the DNA back then
When is back then? Football coverage since Sky has been 45 minutes followed by the studio arguing about and replaying every decision, followed by 45 minutes followed by the studio arguing about and replaying every decision. Then we could do it all again on the highlights, just with less football to interrupt the arguing and slo-mos. The only difference now is we also get to argue about whether it should have gone to VAR or not plus whether VAR got it wrong. Scrutiny is the same, it's just the arguing that has grown.
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Not many games go by now without a key incident or other being missed or a wrong call being made . But i suspect it's always been like that .
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The problem is the term "clear and obvious error" and how that is interpreted, and that that as the criteria for VAR involvement was never going to work.
If they think that an error has been made, and check on VAR, and see that there has been an offside in the build up to the goal, which was not spotted by the ref and linesman, what do they then do?
And what, semantically, does "clear and obvious" mean? Who interprets that? Where is the boundary line in what does and does not qualify for that label, and what do they do with non "clear and obvious" errors? Just ignore them?
It is flawed from the off. They should just use the European system for things like offside, and use VAR for stuff like potential sendings off.
They also need a clear format of communication between referee and VAR, none of this "oh hang on, he looks off, do you want to take a look at that" casual stuff, it needs to follow an agreed scripted flow, and they above all need not to start talking over the top of each other (as per that Liverpool goal), that is just asking for a mistake.
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Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on
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Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on
I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is a terrible idea too?
If rugby has it so right why is it watched by one man and his dog outside of Twickenham?
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Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on
I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is a terrible idea too?
If rugby has it so right why is it watched by one man and his dog outside of Twickenham?
Think you'll find many millions watched the recent Rugby WC and the way they use VAR is superb
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Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on
I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is a terrible idea too?
If rugby has it so right why is it watched by one man and his dog outside of Twickenham?
Think you'll find many millions watched the recent Rugby WC and the way they use VAR is superb
Decisions in the "bunker" get made in rugby matches that are still debated and even rescinded post-game so I don't think it's superb in rugby either
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Trying to find a solution will drive you mad. Even if we all get to sit at Stockley Park (??) and watch the decisions in real time, with subtitles and interpretive dance, we will argue about it. Given no-one is going to consign VAR to the bin, can we just stop it where it is, accept we're all the victims of a great refereeing conspiracy and enjoy the inevitable heartbreak?
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Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on
I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is a terrible idea too?
If rugby has it so right why is it watched by one man and his dog outside of Twickenham?
Think you'll find many millions watched the recent Rugby WC and the way they use VAR is superb
Decisions in the "bunker" get made in rugby matches that are still debated and even rescinded post-game so I don't think it's superb in rugby either
the VAR room is on camera and mic'd up, so is the ref.
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Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on
I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is a terrible idea too?
If rugby has it so right why is it watched by one man and his dog outside of Twickenham?
Think you'll find many millions watched the recent Rugby WC and the way they use VAR is superb
Decisions in the "bunker" get made in rugby matches that are still debated and even rescinded post-game so I don't think it's superb in rugby either
the VAR room is on camera and mic'd up, so is the ref.
That doesn't mean they get it right all the time
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Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on
I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is a terrible idea too?
If rugby has it so right why is it watched by one man and his dog outside of Twickenham?
Think you'll find many millions watched the recent Rugby WC and the way they use VAR is superb
Decisions in the "bunker" get made in rugby matches that are still debated and even rescinded post-game so I don't think it's superb in rugby either
the VAR room is on camera and mic'd up, so is the ref.
That doesn't mean they get it right all the time
No, but its a damn site better than everyone in the ground and at home sat there for 5 minutes wondering WTF is happening . People pay big money to watch football and the service to the consumer needs to be better
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People in the stadium don't hear the TMO, that's a myth. (There have been purchasable ref mic radios in the past, but the average punter doesn't hear the ref & TMO exchange at the ground). It is available to the television audience though, so there is full transparency.
Where rugby does work well is other than ball grounding for tries (or foot in touch as scoring etc) the vast majority of decisions are referred back to the onfield ref for final decision with assistance from the TMO. I think this could work well in football. Semi-automated offside and goal-line technology with the onfield ref making all other decisions with assistance from the TMO and multiple tv monitors as required.
I think this
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Amazing how many people want VAR changed specifically for offside when our highline works, not just because of the tick-tock of our defenders, but because VAR will pick up the narrow offsides.
This. We need VAR.
I posted the below in 'The High Line' thread.
AVFC Statto posted.
Aston Villa have caught their opponents offside 58 times in the Premier League this season, 20 more times than any other team in the competition.
However I don't know if there are any stats for how many were confirmed as offside on the field and how many were called only by VAR. Also how many actually disallowed goals and how many didn't lead to the ball in the net (covering defender/ Martinez magic / awful control).
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People in the stadium don't hear the TMO, that's a myth. (There have been purchasable ref mic radios in the past, but the average punter doesn't hear the ref & TMO exchange at the ground). It is available to the television audience though, so there is full transparency.
Where rugby does work well is other than ball grounding for tries (or foot in touch as scoring etc) the vast majority of decisions are referred back to the onfield ref for final decision with assistance from the TMO. I think this could work well in football. Semi-automated offside and goal-line technology with the onfield ref making all other decisions with assistance from the TMO and multiple tv monitors as required.
I think this
It's more than that, the whole way the review is handled is better, if the VAR sees something that the ref has missed or got wrong they tell him to stop the game (or not restart). A lot of the calls around late tackles or head contact come from that because it can be hard to spot from in th emiddle of the action.
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Simplify the rules of the game and referees/var/microphones might stand a chance.
Currently, offsides and handball in particular are a joke. A lot of pundits avoid discussing those incidents to avoid making themselves look like a fool.
I was not surprised at how fast fans adapted to the difference between a deliberate pass back and an accidental pass back to the goalie. They are obvious. The same should apply with handball. We can all tell whats deliberate and whats accidental. They are obvious.
With offside, there needs to be 'clear daylight' between last defender and the forward. Be a lot more clear than armpits, toes and noses getting involved.
Simplify the rules 'first' and then VAR might stand a chance.
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People in the stadium don't hear the TMO, that's a myth. (There have been purchasable ref mic radios in the past, but the average punter doesn't hear the ref & TMO exchange at the ground). It is available to the television audience though, so there is full transparency.
Where rugby does work well is other than ball grounding for tries (or foot in touch as scoring etc) the vast majority of decisions are referred back to the onfield ref for final decision with assistance from the TMO. I think this could work well in football. Semi-automated offside and goal-line technology with the onfield ref making all other decisions with assistance from the TMO and multiple tv monitors as required.
I think this
It's more than that, the whole way the review is handled is better, if the VAR sees something that the ref has missed or got wrong they tell him to stop the game (or not restart). A lot of the calls around late tackles or head contact come from that because it can be hard to spot from in th emiddle of the action.
Yes I agree, I think rugby handles it brilliantly, albeit as a poster earlier mentioned not without controversial decisions.
I've said many times I think part of the problem with VAR is they always wanted to reinvent the wheel, they were seemingly too arrogant to be seen to be borrowing too heavily from other sports.
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Simplify the rules of the game and referees/var/microphones might stand a chance.
Currently, offsides and handball in particular are a joke. A lot of pundits avoid discussing those incidents to avoid making themselves look like a fool.
I was not surprised at how fast fans adapted to the difference between a deliberate pass back and an accidental pass back to the goalie. They are obvious. The same should apply with handball. We can all tell whats deliberate and whats accidental. They are obvious.
With offside, there needs to be 'clear daylight' between last defender and the forward. Be a lot more clear than armpits, toes and noses getting involved.
Simplify the rules 'first' and then VAR might stand a chance.
This. And this again...
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Yeah I'd agree with 'clear daylight' with offside but who decides what is and isn't? It will still be 'the defenders fingertips on his outstreched arm are overlapping the attackers shorts" etc. There will be still be endless debates about stuff like that where in one game it's given anf the other it's not.
It's an absolute pox on the game, people are conditioned to think technology can solve everything and it can't.
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Be careful what you wish for with the 'clear daylight' idea. Firstly, it will still require the same level of scrutiny. Secondly, it would entirely fuck up our high-line.
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"clear daylight" is also a subjective view
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In the spirit of helpfulness, how about a simple rule of clubs that founded the Football League get to ref the games.
Simple to understand, easy to implement.
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Simplify the rules of the game and referees/var/microphones might stand a chance.
Currently, offsides and handball in particular are a joke. A lot of pundits avoid discussing those incidents to avoid making themselves look like a fool.
I was not surprised at how fast fans adapted to the difference between a deliberate pass back and an accidental pass back to the goalie. They are obvious. The same should apply with handball. We can all tell whats deliberate and whats accidental. They are obvious.
With offside, there needs to be 'clear daylight' between last defender and the forward. Be a lot more clear than armpits, toes and noses getting involved.
Simplify the rules 'first' and then VAR might stand a chance.
Please tell me you aren't suggesting amending offside law to say there should be "Clear daylight" between attacker and defender - that is matters even more subjective!
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Simplify the rules of the game and referees/var/microphones might stand a chance.
Currently, offsides and handball in particular are a joke. A lot of pundits avoid discussing those incidents to avoid making themselves look like a fool.
I was not surprised at how fast fans adapted to the difference between a deliberate pass back and an accidental pass back to the goalie. They are obvious. The same should apply with handball. We can all tell whats deliberate and whats accidental. They are obvious.
With offside, there needs to be 'clear daylight' between last defender and the forward. Be a lot more clear than armpits, toes and noses getting involved.
Simplify the rules 'first' and then VAR might stand a chance.
Please tell me you aren't suggesting amending offside law to say there should be "Clear daylight" between attacker and defender - that is matters even more subjective!
That's exactly what I'm saying.
It is currently ridiculous that 99% of a players body can be onside but because the other 1% is offside, a foul is given.
Clear daylight is required, A player is either onside or offside. They can't be both!!
Football is an entertainment, goals are its bloodline. The more the merrier,
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There has never been a "daylight" rule for offside previously, why have one now? And why would set rule change anything anyway in terms of when the decision is made. The linesman would still need to be "sure" the defenders arm wasn't extended and playing him onside. And VAR if still used would still be spending minutes on similar measurements. It is also probably less definitive then are they level.
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There has never been a "daylight" rule for offside previously, why have one now? And why would set rule change anything anyway in terms of when the decision is made. The linesman would still need to be "sure" the defenders arm wasn't extended and playing him onside. And VAR if still used would still be spending minutes on similar measurements. It is also probably less definitive then are they level.
Surely an arm can't play him onside?
I know it doesn't distract from your general point, mind.
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If the poster is stating only offside is called if there is "daylight" between the players, in theory the defenders arm could mean there is no daylight between the two players, hence the attacker is onside.
Of course what the rule is on a cold Tuesday in December at Stoke is is anyone's guess.....
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Simplify the rules of the game and referees/var/microphones might stand a chance.
Currently, offsides and handball in particular are a joke. A lot of pundits avoid discussing those incidents to avoid making themselves look like a fool.
I was not surprised at how fast fans adapted to the difference between a deliberate pass back and an accidental pass back to the goalie. They are obvious. The same should apply with handball. We can all tell whats deliberate and whats accidental. They are obvious.
With offside, there needs to be 'clear daylight' between last defender and the forward. Be a lot more clear than armpits, toes and noses getting involved.
Simplify the rules 'first' and then VAR might stand a chance.
Please tell me you aren't suggesting amending offside law to say there should be "Clear daylight" between attacker and defender - that is matters even more subjective!
That's exactly what I'm saying.
It is currently ridiculous that 99% of a players body can be onside but because the other 1% is offside, a foul is given.
Clear daylight is required, A player is either onside or offside. They can't be both!!
Football is an entertainment, goals are its bloodline. The more the merrier,
It's not ridiculous at all. It's rightly punishing cheats.
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What colour line would the daylight be?
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Should it actually have been a penalty then? I’m confused as to why this thread went all VAR.
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Change the rule to whatever you like, I'm not bothered, rules is rules. It's changed before to favour the attacker when the currently nonexistent 'level' was introduced, and again when a handball was moved from the point of the shoulder to some armpit line, ergo changing the offside law. The fact remains that if you're going to measure a line, you'll still have the same decisions to make irrespective of what line you're measuring. Go mad and make it so the attacker has two yards of leeway and watch to see how long that takes to get measured to the millimetre/shirtsleeve on a rewound video.