Aston Villa v Fulham Post-Match Thread

[VillaTim]

Not many games go by now without a key incident or other being missed or a wrong call being made . But i suspect it's always been like that .

[pauliewalnuts]

The problem is the term "clear and obvious error" and how that is interpreted, and that that as the criteria for VAR involvement was never going to work.

If they think that an error has been made, and check on VAR, and see that there has been an offside in the build up to the goal, which was not spotted by the ref and linesman, what do they then do?

And what, semantically, does "clear and obvious" mean? Who interprets that? Where is the boundary line in what does and does not qualify for that label, and what do they do with non "clear and obvious" errors? Just ignore them?

It is flawed from the off. They should just use the European system for things like offside, and use VAR for stuff like potential sendings off.

They also need a clear format of communication between referee and VAR, none of this "oh hang on, he looks off, do you want to take a look at that" casual stuff, it needs to follow an agreed scripted flow, and they above all need not to start talking over the top of each other (as per that Liverpool goal), that is just asking for a mistake.

[VillaTim]

Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on

[LeeB]

Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on

I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is a terrible idea too?

If rugby has it so right why is it watched by one man and his dog outside of Twickenham?

[VillaTim]

Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on

I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is a terrible idea too?

If rugby has it so right why is it watched by one man and his dog outside of Twickenham?

Think you'll find many millions watched the recent Rugby WC and the way they use VAR is superb

[Bully2345]

Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on

I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is a terrible idea too?

If rugby has it so right why is it watched by one man and his dog outside of Twickenham?

Think you'll find many millions watched the recent Rugby WC and the way they use VAR is superb

Decisions in the "bunker" get made in rugby matches that are still debated and even rescinded post-game so I don't think it's superb in rugby either

[Simon Page]

Trying to find a solution will drive you mad. Even if we all get to sit at Stockley Park (??) and watch the decisions in real time, with subtitles and interpretive dance, we will argue about it. Given no-one is going to consign VAR to the bin, can we just stop it where it is, accept we're all the victims of a great refereeing conspiracy and enjoy the inevitable heartbreak?

[VillaTim]

Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on

I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is a terrible idea too?

If rugby has it so right why is it watched by one man and his dog outside of Twickenham?

Think you'll find many millions watched the recent Rugby WC and the way they use VAR is superb

Decisions in the "bunker" get made in rugby matches that are still debated and even rescinded post-game so I don't think it's superb in rugby either

the VAR room is on camera and mic'd up, so is the ref.

[Bully2345]

Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on

I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is a terrible idea too?

If rugby has it so right why is it watched by one man and his dog outside of Twickenham?

Think you'll find many millions watched the recent Rugby WC and the way they use VAR is superb

Decisions in the "bunker" get made in rugby matches that are still debated and even rescinded post-game so I don't think it's superb in rugby either

the VAR room is on camera and mic'd up, so is the ref.

That doesn't mean they get it right all the time

[VillaTim]

Follow what they do in rugby , mic everyone up and film them and let everyone in the ground and at home know whats going on

I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is a terrible idea too?

If rugby has it so right why is it watched by one man and his dog outside of Twickenham?

Think you'll find many millions watched the recent Rugby WC and the way they use VAR is superb

Decisions in the "bunker" get made in rugby matches that are still debated and even rescinded post-game so I don't think it's superb in rugby either

the VAR room is on camera and mic'd up, so is the ref.

That doesn't mean they get it right all the time

No, but its a damn site better than everyone in the ground and at home sat there for 5 minutes wondering WTF is happening . People pay big money to watch football and the service to the consumer needs to be better

[chrisw1]

People in the stadium don't hear the TMO, that's a myth.  (There have been purchasable ref mic radios in the past, but the average punter doesn't hear the ref & TMO exchange at the ground).  It is available to the television audience though, so there is full transparency.

Where rugby does work well is other than ball grounding for tries (or foot in touch as scoring etc) the vast majority of decisions are referred back to the onfield ref for final decision with assistance from the TMO.  I think this could work well in football.  Semi-automated offside and goal-line technology with the onfield ref making all other decisions with assistance from the TMO and multiple tv monitors as required.

I think this

[Somniloquism]

Amazing how many people want VAR changed specifically for offside when our highline works, not just because of the tick-tock of our defenders, but because VAR will pick up the narrow offsides.

This. We need VAR.

I posted the below in 'The High Line' thread.

AVFC Statto posted.

Aston Villa have caught their opponents offside 58 times in the Premier League this season, 20 more times than any other team in the competition.

However I don't know if there are any stats for how many were confirmed as offside on the field and how many were called only by VAR. Also how many actually disallowed goals and how many didn't lead to the ball in the net (covering defender/ Martinez magic / awful control).

[paul_e]

People in the stadium don't hear the TMO, that's a myth.  (There have been purchasable ref mic radios in the past, but the average punter doesn't hear the ref & TMO exchange at the ground).  It is available to the television audience though, so there is full transparency.

Where rugby does work well is other than ball grounding for tries (or foot in touch as scoring etc) the vast majority of decisions are referred back to the onfield ref for final decision with assistance from the TMO.  I think this could work well in football.  Semi-automated offside and goal-line technology with the onfield ref making all other decisions with assistance from the TMO and multiple tv monitors as required.

I think this

It's more than that, the whole way the review is handled is better, if the VAR sees something that the ref has missed or got wrong they tell him to stop the game (or not restart). A lot of the calls around late tackles or head contact come from that because it can be hard to spot from in th emiddle of the action.

[Baldy]

Simplify the rules of the game and referees/var/microphones might stand a chance.

Currently, offsides and handball in particular are a joke. A lot of pundits avoid discussing those incidents to avoid making themselves look like a fool.

I was not surprised at how fast fans adapted to the difference between a deliberate pass back and an accidental pass back to the goalie. They are obvious. The same should apply with handball. We can all tell whats deliberate and whats accidental. They are obvious.

With offside, there needs to be 'clear daylight' between last defender and the forward. Be a lot more clear than armpits, toes and noses getting involved.

Simplify the rules 'first' and then VAR might stand a chance.

[chrisw1]

People in the stadium don't hear the TMO, that's a myth.  (There have been purchasable ref mic radios in the past, but the average punter doesn't hear the ref & TMO exchange at the ground).  It is available to the television audience though, so there is full transparency.

Where rugby does work well is other than ball grounding for tries (or foot in touch as scoring etc) the vast majority of decisions are referred back to the onfield ref for final decision with assistance from the TMO.  I think this could work well in football.  Semi-automated offside and goal-line technology with the onfield ref making all other decisions with assistance from the TMO and multiple tv monitors as required.

I think this

It's more than that, the whole way the review is handled is better, if the VAR sees something that the ref has missed or got wrong they tell him to stop the game (or not restart). A lot of the calls around late tackles or head contact come from that because it can be hard to spot from in th emiddle of the action.

Yes I agree, I think rugby handles it brilliantly, albeit as a poster earlier mentioned not without controversial decisions.

I've said many times I think part of the problem with VAR is they always wanted to reinvent the wheel, they were seemingly too arrogant to be seen to be borrowing too heavily from other sports.