Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on September 06, 2023, 10:14:13 PM
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I’m reading lots more about the club draining every last drop of cash they can from the ordinary fan whilst pissing them off in the process by installing things like The Terrace View.
An often talked about subject but is it me or is it now worse than ever? Due to the special nature of the relationship fans will put up with a lot of things but this feels different. I guess if the service and quality was even half as good then there would be less complaints. But I was reading how tired the ground looked at the beginning of the season and you start to wonder who is actually making these decisions.
Last straw for me and I don’t get to any games theses days was the Everton price. One I would’ve looked forward to going to.
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I don't think there's any doubt that they've looked at the waiting list, looked at other clubs' turnovers and seen an easy way to increase ours.
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Five years ago no waiting list and a bunch of diehards probably still going supporting us up from the championship and now seemingly not one shit given.
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The sentiment and strategy is pretty much cough up or feck off. Disgusted by the direction and I'm not sure I'm going to be part of it for much longer .
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Tim, at this rate, for us fanatical but not wealthy people, it’s only a question of when we decide enough is enough, not if, unfortunately.
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What's really sad is the constant argument on Twitter between those who've had enough and the ones who think everyone should hand their money over without complaint, "because we want to sign players and win things."
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I grew up in a 1 parent family. My grandad took me to my first game in 1978 . We took the 11 bus after walking from our privately owned council house to get there and back. It was affordable and accessible back then . What they are doing now is hideous and exclusive to what was a working mans sport. Fuck them , luckily my kids have little / no interest.
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Sadly it's the way a lot of football teams have gone for a long time. If anyone has the belief it's been the working man sport that was gone long ago. The Everton prices just show they believe they can get the fans through the gates now with higher demand which will only last as long as the club is performing well. With those prices 5/6 years ago that would be a guaranteed 15-18K crowd.
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Tim, at this rate, for us fanatical but not wealthy people, it’s only a question of when we decide enough is enough, not if, unfortunately.
It's probably getting to the point for quite a few, especially with the added European fixtures, that they might have to pick and choose which fixtures to go to. Sadly, it's probably now gone past that point for others as well.
Since we came back up into the Premier League, it has still felt like the club I grew up watching and not the pretty soulless commercial entities that some clubs in this country have become. Sadly it does feel like that the first few signs are there that that is going to change.
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Tim, at this rate, for us fanatical but not wealthy people, it’s only a question of when we decide enough is enough, not if, unfortunately.
It's probably getting to the point for quite a few now, especially with the added European fixtures, that they might have to pick and choose which fixtures to go to. Sadly, it's probably gone past that point for quite a few as well.
Since we came back up into the Premier League, it has still felt like the club I grew up watching and not the pretty soulless commercial entities that some clubs in this country have become. Sadly it does feel like that the first few signs are there that that is going to change.
The Premier league is generally a soulless commercial entity which on the whole is fairly predictable teams who will win league get Europe or relegated etc. The teams in it just adapt to it for money reasons and many of the teams who have had sizeable increases in attendances with new stadiums ie Spurs West Ham have done this in part to tourist fans attending due to the global reach of the league.
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The thread title is spot on, that is how it feels.
I hate the way certain clubs have bought success in the last 20 years and now the club I love is trying to do exactly the same with a couple of billionaires throwing their money around on their toy and us supporters having to keep up with their spending to help keep the income the right side of FFP.
It riles me that of all the billions the Premier League clubs earn from TV money none of this is put towards keeping costs down for the fans who pack the grounds out and help make it the ‘product’ it is.
The owners take advantage of our addiction.
And how the fuck do they come up with £36.50 for Everton? Have they knocked 50p off because they thought £37 was pushing it a bit, or added 50p on thinking they can squeeze a bit more than £36 from us? Fuck ‘em.
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I was probably the only one wanting an away draw for the Carabao Cup as I saw this coming. Huge hikes on season tickets, plenty of extra matches in Europe, but something has to give and it’s this game for me, just can’t justify it at that price.
No free cup game anymore either, I actually hope there's a poor attendance just as a message to the club (assuming that they care).
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Yep, I’m out of the cup game partly on affordability but mainly on price versus value. They are taking the P.
It’s starting to get a bit “them and us” to me, doesn’t feel like my club really cares one bit.
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If you're a fan, you have a sentimental attachment to a football club. If you're a football club you have a financial attachment to the fans.
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The thread title is spot on, that is how it feels.
I hate the way certain clubs have bought success in the last 20 years and now the club I love is trying to do exactly the same with a couple of billionaires throwing their money around on their toy and us supporters having to keep up with their spending to help keep the income the right side of FFP.
It riles me that of all the billions the Premier League clubs earn from TV money none of this is put towards keeping costs down for the fans who pack the grounds out and help make it the ‘product’ it is.
The owners take advantage of our addiction.
And how the fuck do they come up with £36.50 for Everton? Have they knocked 50p off because they thought £37 was pushing it a bit, or added 50p on thinking they can squeeze a bit more than £36 from us? Fuck ‘em.
I agree with most of what you say, but doubt the owners have a scooby doo what match day prices are or what is happening commercially or not have happening, they are probably just interested in their overall balance sheet. There is also no getting away these owners saved the club.
I probably will go to the Everton game as where I sit in the Holte its £30 for me and £13 for my lad, my 16 year old daughter who is also a season ticket holder, doesnt always want to go to extra games as quite rightly as other priorities in life at her age.
I heard a decent managerial wage, my partner not so after a career in the NHS, so we are just ok. The season ticket hike this year on top of last year has pushed me about and if that trend carried on decisions would have to be made.
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My ticket for Everton is £30 on the Holte which I think is ok but can understand how others feel.
The season ticket hike was hard to swallow once you factored in the state of the ground we had to use on the first day of the season, no cleaning or maintenance regime appeared to be in place, it was an absolute fucking shithole and totally unacceptable. Then there is in the unavailability of the HS which was announced at the last minute and was still out of bounds for the Hibs game. The HS is in use tomorrow for a private event advertised by the Aston Inn so I assume is fit for use on the 16th??
There has been zero effort in improving anything facilities wise and it does smack of "if you don't like it, there are plenty more that will".
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I’ve been priced out for years now even if I could get a ticket. Lesser fan perhaps than the diehards but simply can’t justify prices these days.
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I don't like it, I don't want it, but I genuinely don't see that it will change. Success brings demand, and that pushes prices up, not because it has to, but because it can. It was ever thus.
The Premier League want money, the FA need money, the clubs want money (and some need it) grassroots football needs the money. None of them will change it.
So that responsibility either sits with governing bodies, who all want the money, or with government. Government won't change it unless there is huge public outcry, and since when did that ever happen? It won't. So the cash cow keeps chewing that grass and dropping pats all over everything else by way of replica kits and exorbitant ticket prices.
I don't agree with trying to make it a class war, because that will alienate a bunch of politicians, or voters. Fans should all be in it together, because no fan likes paying silly prices.
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I don't like it, I don't want it, but I genuinely don't see that it will change. Success brings demand, and that pushes prices up, not because it has to, but because it can. It was ever thus.
The Premier League want money, the FA need money, the clubs want money (and some need it) grassroots football needs the money. None of them will change it.
So that responsibility either sits with governing bodies, who all want the money, or with government. Government won't change it unless there is huge public outcry, and since when did that ever happen? It won't. So the cash cow keeps chewing that grass and dropping pats all over everything else by way of replica kits and exorbitant ticket prices.
I don't agree with trying to make it a class war, because that will alienate a bunch of politicians, or voters. Fans should all be in it together, because no fan likes paying silly prices.
I agree with all of this and agree about the class ear thing. The whole class element is so complex. I see myself as working class because my parents were both manual workers all their lives, I grew up in an inner city council estate, my parents never owned their own car never mind house, I always vote Labour through thick and thin and i have spent most of my working life in and around the trade union movement. But the reality is, I live in a nice middle class area of Birmingham, i have a reasonably well paid job etc.
I would guess Im just a microcosm of the backgrounds of many Villa match day attendees.
In the end, the price hikes are unreasonable and will unfairly price some out, myself included eventually. What also grates is what Nev mentioned, the continuing pretty awful facilities in and around the club and the feeling that the club couldn’t give two shits.
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The pricing is wrong and we won't see 30,000 on the gate as a result.
There's been a real drift away for any semblance of engagement with supporters, likely since Purslow knew his gig was up.
The Terrace View ought to have been a general upgrade of the entire lower concourse section of the Upper Holte. Instead, as has been pointed out, we have dirty, hot, limited facilities at an increased price.
Heck and the new Cheif Op Officer will have a remit to significantly increase commercial activity, but the current path of alienation of the match going fan is poor and also unnecessary.
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It's not long ago I was sitting in the Witton Lane looking across at an empty upper tier Trinity. Things have changed very quickly.
I wonder how many on the waiting list put their names down before the more recent price hikes, and would still swallow them if offered the chance. I guess the Everton game may test that if season ticket holder opt for the european game.
And of course, it's the waiting list that's contributing to the complacency around the facilities for the majority of fans.
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I very much agree with Drummond though. People shouldn't be talking about class or making distinctions between waiting listers. It's definitely a factor, the huge surge in popularity; our waiting list is bigger than any other West Midlands ground, that's quite the boast.
But we are not a London club with London workers wages across the board. We are not a tourist club like Man United or Liverpool. There's a ceiling on price, until wages change in the UK and those that run us have a responsibility to know their customers. That the Terrace View was built at all would suggest that Purslow did not or worse and probably more likely, did know us, but didn't care.
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i regret renewing my ST, £875 Witton Upper, it's too much. And all these Sunday games i won't be able to make . The midweek cup games i can't make either .
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As I said in my OP the regular attendees are being fleeced more and more but the facilities are getting worse. I can only compare that to the trains maybe. I think it was Nev who said the screen at the top of the holte was filthy and had cobwebs. Where’s the Fcukin pride gone. I used to look forward to a nice glistening newly painted railing back in the day.
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What's really sad is the constant argument on Twitter between those who've had enough and the ones who think everyone should hand their money over without complaint, "because we want to sign players and win things."
Yeah, I see a lot of that, usually from people that like to say "cry more" a lot - one of the many helpful red flags that people wave to indicate they lack both empathy and wit. It does make me wonder what the general attitude is, though. Are we the minority, thinking that the club is taking the piss? Or is there just a few very vocal people that will defend any action the club takes?
It was the same with the season tickets. Any complaint about the price increases were met from two angles: one group saying that we're lucky to be able to afford one, and another saying we should be happy to pay more as it means we'll start competing with the 'big boys'. Like so much on social media, Twitter especially, a tiny bit of logic (for there is some behind each of these arguments) creates a militant view, with no room for debate in the middle. I am grateful to be able to afford a season ticket every year, but I don't like feeling that my loyalty is being taken advantage of. I do want us to compete with the 'big boys', but I would expect that sorting out basic services in the ground would contribute much more towards that than the price increase in my tickets, and that would also provide a better overall 'product' that they are charging me for. But they have taken the easiest route of just charging us ageing cash cows more, and removed some of the (very) basic services that we had before to accommodate the fatter cash cows
I think what I'm trying to say is: I should just stop looking at Twitter.
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i regret renewing my ST, £875 Witton Upper, it's too much. And all these Sunday games i won't be able to make . The midweek cup games i can't make either .
Hopefully you won't regret having it if we start pushing top 4-6. Also when the North Stand redev starts there will be virtually no seats available nor non ST holders. This is the problem, FOMO will have people clinging onto ST they can't really afford because if you give it up you won't get one back in the foreseeable future.
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I think the evidence will be in the attendance. My gut feel is that we'll be lucky to get 25000 at those prices. But if we push 35000 then the club have got it right...
How much are the Everton fans paying? Twitter seems to think £15... but I've not seen that anywhere?
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Like many on hear I won't be doing the Everton game. The club have got this wrong. The communication from the club seems to be nonexistent these days.
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All I know is this. I counted down the hours to the Palace tickets going on general sale and when they finally did so I eagerly jumped to the patch of Upper Holte tickets that were still available..
£45?!...that's £10 more than last season... sorry, just not paying it. It's above my VFM line. I have a ticket fir Chelsea away the following week for £15 less than that...
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Yes, they've got it wrong or will be proved to have got it wrong with the relatively poor attendance. I doubt i will go, not so much because of the cost but the fact that they are charging a lot for what will effectively be two weakened sides in the early rounds of the least important cup competition. They're all important I know but this one ranks least in the importance metric.
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The pricing is shit, but unless they've recently changed the rules then the away side has to agree to price reductions in cup matches. Usually they do as it benefits their own fans but there is always a chance that the prices are what they are because of Everton and not Villa. That said, my money would be on us as we do seem to have taken the view that
fans customers are just walking wallets.
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I had a conversation with my old man about this last weekend. He has a season ticket in the Holte as do my two nephews and he was annoyed at the price increases and the Terrace View.
I get the annoyance, but I don't think it is a simple as 'greedy owners fleecing the fans'. These greedy owners are well out of pocket since buying the club, and have ponied up their hard earned money to the tune of millions to invest in players. The transformation has been remarkable, and has come at great cost to them. It is then slightly incongruous to link the increases with 'greed'.
Where 'blame' needs to be levelled is FFP. The club does need to operate within the rather strange set of rules, and that does mean a straight choice between maximising revenue or being less competitive in the transfer market and consequently on the pitch. The fans are being pumped a bit more, but the owners are pumping in plenty as well.
My old man is of the opinion that the terrace view is unfair, as wealthy people can jump the season ticket queue. I have no problem with this and if it works it will help the club, not that it working thus far.
End of the day nobody forces any of us to spend money on our hobby. Watching Villa is not one of lifes essentials, and is hardly a human right. I do think they have pushed the envelope a little too far this season given the unrest amongst fans, market forces will sort that out eventually though.
What I think we can all agree on though is that the quality we are getting to watch is at a 30 year high, so I do think we are getting better value these days in some respects.
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Selling seats for a match in the PL is now comparable to going to the theatre.
The clubs don't really care who buys the seat as long as they sell out.
But crucially the clubs owners have identifed that the tourists/day trippers/occasional fans are willing to pay more per seat per match than the die hard season ticket holders.
So season ticket holders are no longer necessarily seen as a valuable commodity, but instead a road block to selling that seat for more money.
I do think there will always be season tickets, but if we are successful and selling out every game, and also have a long waiting list for season tickets, they will definitely exploit that to make more money.
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wouldn't put it past the club to drop the prices near to the game if it hasn't sold out. They're really playing hardball with the fans now.
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wouldn't put it past the club to drop the prices near to the game if it hasn't sold out. They're really playing hardball with the fans now.
That won’t happen I don’t think…once they go on sale tonight that will be the price as they won’t want to do refunds.
With getting rid of the ‘free’ cup ticket they could have read the room a lot better and done £20/£10 for STH then charged these prices for the left over tickets.
Premier League prices, Premier League team, Premier League view from seats, League 1 facilities, League 1 catering offering at best. Zero inclination to match the last two to match up with the first three
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???
wouldn't put it past the club to drop the prices near to the game if it hasn't sold out. They're really playing hardball with the fans now.
Dynamic Pricing
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i regret renewing my ST, £875 Witton Upper, it's too much. And all these Sunday games i won't be able to make . The midweek cup games i can't make either .
Hopefully you won't regret having it if we start pushing top 4-6. Also when the North Stand redev starts there will be virtually no seats available nor non ST holders. This is the problem, FOMO will have people clinging onto ST they can't really afford because if you give it up you won't get one back in the foreseeable future.
i'm expecting to get bounced out of our seats anyway , they are upper Witton smack bang on the halfway line - prime for corporate / padded seats / carpet etc
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Same for me in the LTR behind the dugouts. Prime gentrification territory
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Tunnel View is another corporate concept springing up at a few grounds . Expect to see that in the LT or the new North Stand Lower (if it ever happens)
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I had a conversation with my old man about this last weekend. He has a season ticket in the Holte as do my two nephews and he was annoyed at the price increases and the Terrace View.
I get the annoyance, but I don't think it is a simple as 'greedy owners fleecing the fans'. These greedy owners are well out of pocket since buying the club, and have ponied up their hard earned money to the tune of millions to invest in players. The transformation has been remarkable, and has come at great cost to them. It is then slightly incongruous to link the increases with 'greed'.
The number crunchers on here will know more about this than me, but isn’t it a case of owners pumping in money as an ‘investment’, and they’ll be making a significant amount of money if and when they decide to sell?
Agree with you about one of the unintended consequences of ffp is that it incentivises clubs to maximise revenue, i.e. squeezing us for all we are worth.
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Yep, whilst it's true the owners 'rescued' us. They did so because they saw a distressed asset that, with investment, would quickly become worth way more than they paid for it. They were right. They clearly know what they're doing.
But let's not descend into hero-worshipping a couple of billionaires. They're here to use us to make money. I know that's how it's supposed to work, and we'll have some fun along the way (hopefully). But let's never confuse them for benevolent benefactors. They're not doing us a favour by being here.
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Yep, whilst it's true the owners 'rescued' us. They did so because they saw a distressed asset that, with investment, would quickly become worth way more than they paid for it. They were right. They clearly know what they're doing.
But let's not descend into hero-worshipping a couple of billionaires. They're here to use us to make money. I know that's how it's supposed to work, and we'll have some fun along the way (hopefully). But let's never confuse them for benevolent benefactors. They're not doing us a favour by being here.
This.
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Yep, whilst it's true the owners 'rescued' us. They did so because they saw a distressed asset that, with investment, would quickly become worth way more than they paid for it. They were right. They clearly know what they're doing.
But let's not descend into hero-worshipping a couple of billionaires. They're here to use us to make money. I know that's how it's supposed to work, and we'll have some fun along the way (hopefully). But let's never confuse them for benevolent benefactors. They're not doing us a favour by being here.
This.
Also this.
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Yep, whilst it's true the owners 'rescued' us. They did so because they saw a distressed asset that, with investment, would quickly become worth way more than they paid for it. They were right. They clearly know what they're doing.
But let's not descend into hero-worshipping a couple of billionaires. They're here to use us to make money. I know that's how it's supposed to work, and we'll have some fun along the way (hopefully). But let's never confuse them for benevolent benefactors. They're not doing us a favour by being here.
100%….a number of us will jump off the bandwagon & the club won’t care less so long as there is someone to fill the void. They’ll definitely want to try and price out some of the concessions groups in time as they want full priced tickets sold.
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I...well, I certainly don't want to go into the hero-worship, but I think they're much more in it for the ego than the money. They're billionaires; think about the levels of business they're used to operating at! For all we think football is big money, for these sorts of guys it's really not.
They want the club to be self-sufficient as they don't want to sink too much into it, and anyway the rules of the league dictate that we have to be. But as far as making money goes, these guys are much richer than the Glazers, who bought a much more valuable sporting asset in a much dodgier way, which is virtually the only way to make any money out of this sport. Sawiris is big in construction and telecoms - I really don't think he needs football.
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Football has evolved into something would be barely recognisable to our grandfathers. The notion of club loyalty is long gone. The type of fan that follows clubs has changed also. Whether it is for the better is debatable.
Personally I love the game and will always watch it but my attachment to Villa as ' my club' is probably lessening as the years go by.
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If they dont fleece us who can they fleece?
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I...well, I certainly don't want to go into the hero-worship, but I think they're much more in it for the ego than the money. They're billionaires; think about the levels of business they're used to operating at! For all we think football is big money, for these sorts of guys it's really not.
They want the club to be self-sufficient as they don't want to sink too much into it, and anyway the rules of the league dictate that we have to be. But as far as making money goes, these guys are much richer than the Glazers, who bought a much more valuable sporting asset in a much dodgier way, which is virtually the only way to make any money out of football. Sawiris is big in construction and telecoms - I really don't think he needs football.
That's all true. Football is trifling in comparative terms. That doesn't mean they won't want to see a return on their investment when they sell. If it was all about profile/ego, they could've bought an existing PL club. They didn't because this one was vastly undervalued.
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I...well, I certainly don't want to go into the hero-worship, but I think they're much more in it for the ego than the money. They're billionaires; think about the levels of business they're used to operating at! For all we think football is big money, for these sorts of guys it's really not.
They want the club to be self-sufficient as they don't want to sink too much into it, and anyway the rules of the league dictate that we have to be. But as far as making money goes, these guys are much richer than the Glazers, who bought a much more valuable sporting asset in a much dodgier way, which is virtually the only way to make any money out of football. Sawiris is big in construction and telecoms - I really don't think he needs football.
That's all true. Football is trifling in comparative terms. That doesn't mean they won't want to see a return on their investment when they sell. If it was all about profile/ego, they could've bought an existing PL club. They didn't because this one was vastly undervalued.
In terms of selling, yeah they'll want a big return, and they'd get one should the time come. But in terms of the undervalued asset, I think they saw it as a cheaper shot at glory - a club easier to acquire at the time than (idk) Bournemouth with a much higher ceiling.
I'm not doubting there are some cold-blooded calculations going on here, I just think that, ultimately, the primary motivation is billionaire narcissism.
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For the past two years inflation has been much, much higher than it was for the prior 30.
Recent ticket price increases are not a Villa-only issue.
The quality of service provided descending into the basement as prices are blasting through the ceiling is.
However, an extra tenner on a ticket isn't something you can blame the club for. Our tickets have generally been very fair value compared to the rest of the league.
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Another reason not to overdo the gratitude to them.
Edit: I was replying to Monty.
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I...well, I certainly don't want to go into the hero-worship, but I think they're much more in it for the ego than the money. They're billionaires; think about the levels of business they're used to operating at! For all we think football is big money, for these sorts of guys it's really not.
They want the club to be self-sufficient as they don't want to sink too much into it, and anyway the rules of the league dictate that we have to be. But as far as making money goes, these guys are much richer than the Glazers, who bought a much more valuable sporting asset in a much dodgier way, which is virtually the only way to make any money out of this sport. Sawiris is big in construction and telecoms - I really don't think he needs football.
Agreed Monty, it's an ego/fun project for them.
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Football has evolved into something would be barely recognisable to our grandfathers. The notion of club loyalty is long gone. The type of fan that follows clubs has changed also. Whether it is for the better is debatable.
Personally I love the game and will always watch it but my attachment to Villa as ' my club' is probably lessening as the years go by.
I'm the complete opposite, actually, and were it not for Villa, I'm not sure I'd ever watch another football match in my life.
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completely agree with everybody here , i wouldnt mind if it was a minimal increase of say a fiver to a max of £25. but to put prices up for a 3rd !! round league cup game by 20 quid over what it normally would be is taking the piss , and i aint gunna pay it , if i miss out on a final ticket because of it so be it , oh and if they set the euro group games prices the same i wont be going to them either
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i didnt do the Ci£y final as the only tcikets left were £250 . An absolute joke
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It's £36.50 if I was to claim my own seat. That's way too much for an early League Cup game.
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The sentiment and strategy is pretty much cough up or feck off. Disgusted by the direction and I'm not sure I'm going to be part of it for much longer .
Yeah but here’s the thing. That’s what we’ve been saying for years now. All of us, including me.
But we keep coming back, and they know this.
Now they have tens of thousands of people waiting to come and take our places if we really were to stop coming.
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I tell you what, I'm dreading the prices for the European group games. Imagine how much home games would be if we progressed in either cup?
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I'll probably still go, as I only have to buy my ticket and can afford it, but it does take the piss.
If this price squeeze continues, along with pet projects like that Tory balcony in the Holte, it will push the real, working class, lifelong fans out of the club, to be replaced with Hooray Henry day trippers spending most of the game taking selfies to post on Twatter.
Atmosphere is already shocking to what it was 20 odd years ago - Imagine a Villa Park 20 years ago if it were to witness Emery's football every week..... the roof would come off!
Also, going back to the original topic of the Everton ticket prices - The club could massively have dropped the ball here. I saw some pillock sticking up for the decision online saying 20,000 tickets at £36 is the same as 40,000 at £18.... but what the prat is failing to highlight is the additional sales in food, match programmes, merchandise, etc that 20,000 extra fans would bring (as well as atmosphere and general appreciation of the good will gesture from the fans of course).
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I tell you what, I'm dreading the prices for the European group games. Imagine how much home games would be if we progressed in either cup?
i said previously, I wouldn't be surprised to see a 3 game package for £125 - £150 in the Upper Witton where i sit
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To be honest, it's a pain in the arse going midweek most of the time, let alone being charged best part of £40 to watch a team we battered the other week.
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Zilinski is a Category A game.
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The sentiment and strategy is pretty much cough up or feck off. Disgusted by the direction and I'm not sure I'm going to be part of it for much longer .
Yeah but here’s the thing. That’s what we’ve been saying for years now. All of us, including me.
But we keep coming back, and they know this.
Now they have tens of thousands of people waiting to come and take our places if we really were to stop coming.
i actually feel different this time like i really wont go back. Only Emery made me renew this season in all honesty
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Just out of interest, did Heck follow a similar strategy in Phili? I appreciate it was different circumstances, he needed to get bums on seats but after he achieved it, did he start excluding the very fans he'd spent so much time and money attracting?
I think we should all welcome a COO as right now operations seem to be an afterthought. The poor fella has his work cut out.
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Football has evolved into something would be barely recognisable to our grandfathers. The notion of club loyalty is long gone. The type of fan that follows clubs has changed also. Whether it is for the better is debatable.
Personally I love the game and will always watch it but my attachment to Villa as ' my club' is probably lessening as the years go by.
I'm the complete opposite, actually, and were it not for Villa, I'm not sure I'd ever watch another football match in my life.
I'd say I always feel like the Villa is 'my club' - it's the one really strong link I have to the rest of my family (particularly on my dad's side).
The cost - and time - of going to Villa now means that I can't go as much as I'd like. Time-wise, I rely on public transport so really anything except a Saturday 3pm kickoff is a bit tricky, and there's literally one of those until the end of January, assuming that it isn't moved for TV purposes.
But also money, like just for me to go it's knocking on £60 to get to a 'cheap' game, but in reality it's never *just* me going cos I'd always take the kids to give them that link with the rest of the family ... but then you're looking at £150-£200 for us all to go. I guess that's part of the thing with the Terrace View - if you're forking out £200-ish to go then what's an extra £30 to get a decent seat and a couple of pints throw in? May as well, right ...*
* not that I'd go for it, but in reality that's got far more to do with me traditionally sitting in the North Stand or Trinity Road stand for games than anything ... I absolutely get what they're trying to appeal to, cos it's the same thing that I'd do if I went to the theatre with my little girl, which is that for something that happens once or twice a year and costs a bit anyway ... you may as well pay an extra 5% on top of the total cost to make sure it's a "good" experience.
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For me it's a £200ish investment every time I go. Tickets for me and my two youngest boys, plus the whole day given to driving up and down the M6 and having to visit my parents as well.
I manage about 3 home games a year, and an extra tenner a ticket wouldn't stop me. Indeed I'd rather pay £300 a trip and we have a great team than wins most of the time, than spend £200 to watch us get beat by West Ham (the last match I took the kids to).
My next match is PNE vs Blues. I watch PNE and FC Fylde more often than Villa as the are close, but I don't have anywhere near the same affinity. It's good when they play Blues as I really want PNE to win then and it makes it more interesting.
As for Villa, I really don't think there is a level they can hit that would ever stop me being a fan. There is a level where they get less of my cash though for sure (both in terms of performance and expense). But for all the cost increases I honestly think the improvement on the pitch still makes them better value at current price than we were under Bruce or Lambert at a cheaper ticket.
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Tim, at this rate, for us fanatical but not wealthy people, it’s only a question of when we decide enough is enough, not if, unfortunately.
I can't go anywhere near as much as I used to, which, is hard for me after 20+ years as a ST holder.
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Unfortunately this is the price we have to pay if we want to compete and get the better players in.
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Unfortunately this is the price we have to pay if we want to compete and get the better players in.
It really isn't.
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Unfortunately this is the price we have to pay if we want to compete and get the better players in.
It really isn't.
How come?
Not being facetious, I happen to think it is.
You can certainly change my opinion, though 👍
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Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
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Nigel, have a look at our nett spend over the last 3 seasons. Just short of £100 million for us and one of the least nett spends, over that period, than the rest of the other EPL clubs. When you add in that some clubs are spending over £100 million for fun on just 1 player, it puts things in perspective, considering how much our season tickets have increased over these last 3 seasons. Plus, add to the equation that, despite huge season ticket price increases, the level of cleanliness and service at Villa Park is less than adequate. We keep hearing how in the “next” transfer window we are going to compete with the top club, in terms of cost of transfers, but in reality, we are still waiting for those big guns coming to us. Maybe next transfer window?? Won’t hold my breath though.
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7.5% discount vs cat b pricing for my seat.
I doubt if it’s different to what any other premier league club would charge.
We all say that winning trophies should take priority, it’s cheaper than a premier league match , so why wouldn’t you want to go and watch it?
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Unfortunately this is the price we have to pay if we want to compete and get the better players in.
It isnt, that’s what they want us to believe, tge tv revenue, the hospitality revenue, the commercial deals and the use of the ground non matchdays blow ticket revenues out of the water. Unfortunately raising money by upping tickets prices and squeezing everything out of the non PL games is easier than sourcing better commercial agreements. It’s a vicious circle that they will keep testing the appetite and we will generally fill the ground - so we can expect continual price rises.
The atmospheres created by the fans are a huge factor in the PL as a product being so popular….rather than milking those supporters for more and more money the prices in reality should be capped like away tickets as a reward for what the fans contribute to the overall product. Obviously will never ever happen because that would take fans of all clubs uniting to fight it but football is too tribal to be an option.
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Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
Brightons European ticket prices look to be much the same as ours.
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Unfortunately this is the price we have to pay if we want to compete and get the better players in.
It really isn't.
How come?
Not being facetious, I happen to think it is.
You can certainly change my opinion, though 👍
It absolutely is.
These owners have ponied up huge amounts of money that was earned through hard work and sacrifice. That may well be motivated by personal ego (definitely would be if any of us had enough billions to own the Villa), but FFP links how much they can chuck in to the amount we earn (or more to to point if we lose less we can spend more).
It's very easy to spend other peoples money, how many of use would cough up umpteen hundreds of millions? How many of us want us to have a weaker squad but spend less and be fine for FFP? Not many.
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Nigel, have a look at our nett spend over the last 3 seasons. Just short of £100 million for us and one of the least nett spends, over that period, than the rest of the other EPL clubs. When you add in that some clubs are spending over £100 million for fun on just 1 player, it puts things in perspective, considering how much our season tickets have increased over these last 3 seasons. Plus, add to the equation that, despite huge season ticket price increases, the level of cleanliness and service at Villa Park is less than adequate. We keep hearing how in the “next” transfer window we are going to compete with the top club, in terms of cost of transfers, but in reality, we are still waiting for those big guns coming to us. Maybe next transfer window?? Won’t hold my breath though.
Only a £100m!!!! Would you put a £100 million in to the club? Doubt it.
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Nigel, have a look at our nett spend over the last 3 seasons. Just short of £100 million for us and one of the least nett spends, over that period, than the rest of the other EPL clubs. When you add in that some clubs are spending over £100 million for fun on just 1 player, it puts things in perspective, considering how much our season tickets have increased over these last 3 seasons. Plus, add to the equation that, despite huge season ticket price increases, the level of cleanliness and service at Villa Park is less than adequate. We keep hearing how in the “next” transfer window we are going to compete with the top club, in terms of cost of transfers, but in reality, we are still waiting for those big guns coming to us. Maybe next transfer window?? Won’t hold my breath though.
Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
Thank you 👍
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Brighton are doing a 3 match bundle for their group matches. Depending on where in the ground it's £75, £85 or £100 for adults. So you can watch them play the likes of Ajax and Marseille for less than we're charging for Everton reserves.
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Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
To be fair Brighton have achieved nothing and Leicester just got relegated so not sure your point stands.
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Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
Whilst I agree we should maximise that, we have to do it before we spend it. In fairness to the club they have potted Purslow and appointed a whole new set of people to do just that. However right now we do not have that revenue, and may never get it. Hoipefully Chris Heck is better than whoever they have at Brighton - we certainly have a higher ceiling.
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Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
To be fair Brighton have achieved nothing and Leicester just got relegated so not sure your point stands.
We've achieved nothing and I must have imagined Leicester winning the league and the FA Cup.
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I have no problem with the club maximising revenue, but I really don't think it's acceptable to walk on filthy floors, sit in filthy stands and piss into blocked urinals.
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Everton sent out their 2nd string side against Doncaster and very nearly lost. They had to send on the "big guns" to win the match for them, so I don't know why people think they're going to send a second string team to Villa Park.
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Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
To be fair Brighton have achieved nothing and Leicester just got relegated so not sure your point stands.
We've achieved nothing and I must have imagined Leicester winning the league and the FA Cup.
I certainly didn't imagine them getting relegated when they had to reign in spending.
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Everton sent out their 2nd string side against Doncaster and very nearly lost. They had to send on the "big guns" to win the match for them, so I don't know why people think they're going to send a second string team to Villa Park.
Because it's unimportant for them.
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I have no problem with the club maximising revenue, but I really don't think it's acceptable to walk on filthy floors, sit in filthy stands and piss into blocked urinals.
Now that I can 100% agree with. Think the same every time I go through Manchester airport.
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Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
To be fair Brighton have achieved nothing and Leicester just got relegated so not sure your point stands.
We've achieved nothing and I must have imagined Leicester winning the league and the FA Cup.
I certainly didn't imagine them getting relegated when they had to reign in spending.
After they'd won more than we have in over forty years.
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Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
To be fair Brighton have achieved nothing and Leicester just got relegated so not sure your point stands.
We've achieved nothing and I must have imagined Leicester winning the league and the FA Cup.
I certainly didn't imagine them getting relegated when they had to reign in spending.
After they'd won more than we have in over forty years.
Swap places now?
Which of our signings this summer would you not have signed due to the lack of revenue from the increases? Torres, Diaby or Teilemans? In reality that is the kind of choice that would have to be made until revenues from other areas are improved - which they seem quite keen on goven the number of off field appointments recently.
Edit
I should add that I am equally unreasonable. I want unlimited spending, no FFP and an owner that will spunk billions that made his/her money in a nice way and is not an oil state. l also would never ever put 100s of millions of my own cash in. I just don't think thats available right now.
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Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
To be fair Brighton have achieved nothing and Leicester just got relegated so not sure your point stands.
We've achieved nothing and I must have imagined Leicester winning the league and the FA Cup.
I certainly didn't imagine them getting relegated when they had to reign in spending.
After they'd won more than we have in over forty years.
It was unsustainable though. Like ours in the Bendall and Lerner years. You can’t have both low income and success for long.
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Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
To be fair Brighton have achieved nothing and Leicester just got relegated so not sure your point stands.
We've achieved nothing and I must have imagined Leicester winning the league and the FA Cup.
I certainly didn't imagine them getting relegated when they had to reign in spending.
After they'd won more than we have in over forty years.
Swap places now?
Which of our signings this summer would you not have signed due to the lack of revenue from the increases? Torres, Diaby or Teilemans? In reality that is the kind of choice that would have to be made until revenues from other areas are improved - which they seem quite keen on goven the number of off field appointments recently.
Edit
I should add that I am equally unreasonable. I want unlimited spending, no FFP and an owner that will spunk billions that made his/her money in a nice way and is not an oil state. l also would never ever put 100s of millions of my own cash in. I just don't think thats available right now.
Yes, I would swap places with them now, in return for their previous seven years. I'll tell you which one of our new players I'd do without if you can tell me which one of them a lower price increase would have meant us not signing, or explain why we wouldn't have been able to afford them given that we still apparently have money left over for January Perhaps you can also tell me who else we might have been able to sign if our much-vaunted off-field team had done better in raising income, or why it's us who have to shell out in the hope of the team getting better.
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I'd never swap for anyone, I signed up to the Villa.
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Just for the debate:
https://x.com/marshallavfc/status/1699794451227697583?s=46&t=GdM6cpVxe5IloByNCRheWA
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Ashton, I haven’t got £1,000 never mind £100 million. However, if I had our owners amount of wealth, £100 million would be loose change and, if they were to sell the club to new buyers, I’ve no doubt they would recoup more than they’ve put in. Please don’t feel sorry for them, feel sorry for the ordinary fan who can no longer afford to attend Villa matches. At the moment, I can just about afford my season ticket but, for how much longer depends on any future whopping increases.
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Ashton, I haven’t got £1,000 never mind £100 million. However, if I had our owners amount of wealth, £100 million would be loose change and, if they were to sell the club to new buyers, I’ve no doubt they would recoup more than they’ve put in. Please don’t feel sorry for them, feel sorry for the ordinary fan who can no longer afford to attend Villa matches. At the moment, I can just about afford my season ticket but, for how much longer depends on any future whopping increases.
This, many times over. I don't know if it's reflected amongst real people, or whether I spend too.much time on Twitter, but the sight of Villa supporters saying that if you can't afford a ticket there's plenty who can has saddened me. I've said it before and I still believe it - I wouldn't want success if it meant selling our soul.
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Ashton, I haven’t got £1,000 never mind £100 million. However, if I had our owners amount of wealth, £100 million would be loose change and, if they were to sell the club to new buyers, I’ve no doubt they would recoup more than they’ve put in. Please don’t feel sorry for them, feel sorry for the ordinary fan who can no longer afford to attend Villa matches. At the moment, I can just about afford my season ticket but, for how much longer depends on any future whopping increases.
Spot on Skerra
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When we talk about the owners putting in hundreds of millions, they have, but they haven’t done it out of an altruistic need to entertain us
They’ve done it because they think they can make the club worth considerably more than they paid for us.
They bought us as a distressed asset for what 60m?
The club is worth at least ten times that now. They’ve invested in terms of having a sensible corporate structure, having a decent squad, all of these things and they are great owners. They saved the club.
But let’s not forget, they’re not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They’re investing to create significant value further down the line. Not because they love the club.
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Deleted
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Ashton, I haven’t got £1,000 never mind £100 million. However, if I had our owners amount of wealth, £100 million would be loose change and, if they were to sell the club to new buyers, I’ve no doubt they would recoup more than they’ve put in. Please don’t feel sorry for them, feel sorry for the ordinary fan who can no longer afford to attend Villa matches. At the moment, I can just about afford my season ticket but, for how much longer depends on any future whopping increases.
This, many times over. I don't know if it's reflected amongst real people, or whether I spend too.much time on Twitter, but the sight of Villa supporters saying that if you can't afford a ticket there's plenty who can has saddened me. I've said it before and I still believe it - I wouldn't want success if it meant selling our soul.
But you would swap for Leicester's trophies, who fleeced their fans for 31% more.
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Ashton, I haven’t got £1,000 never mind £100 million. However, if I had our owners amount of wealth, £100 million would be loose change and, if they were to sell the club to new buyers, I’ve no doubt they would recoup more than they’ve put in. Please don’t feel sorry for them, feel sorry for the ordinary fan who can no longer afford to attend Villa matches. At the moment, I can just about afford my season ticket but, for how much longer depends on any future whopping increases.
This, many times over. I don't know if it's reflected amongst real people, or whether I spend too.much time on Twitter, but the sight of Villa supporters saying that if you can't afford a ticket there's plenty who can has saddened me. I've said it before and I still believe it - I wouldn't want success if it meant selling our soul.
But you would swap for Leicester's trophies, who fleeced their fans for 31% more.
Leicester didn't raise their season ticket prices from 2014 until 2022, when they went up by an average of 5%.
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I've a very vague memory of a H&V article post the Inter defeat, so 1991 or 1992, arguing that we would all be happy to see the best players in the world in front of us, even if it meant paying a lot more. We've got that now haven't we?
Cant mind author mind.
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I've a very vague memory of a H&V article post the Inter defeat, so 1991 or 1992, arguing that we would all be happy to see the best players in the world in front of us, even if it meant paying a lot more. We've got that now haven't we?
Cant mind author mind.
Probably me, but "a lot more" then meant a couple of quid rather than a mortgage.
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Leicester's cheapest season ticket when they won the league was £365. 7 years later, last season, it was £385.
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And they still made 31% more than us last year!
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When we talk about the owners putting in hundreds of millions, they have, but they haven’t done it out of an altruistic need to entertain us
They’ve done it because they think they can make the club worth considerably more than they paid for us.
They bought us as a distressed asset for what 60m?
The club is worth at least ten times that now. They’ve invested in terms of having a sensible corporate structure, having a decent squad, all of these things and they are great owners. They saved the club.
But let’s not forget, they’re not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They’re investing to create significant value further down the line. Not because they love the club.
Ahem.
Yep, whilst it's true the owners 'rescued' us. They did so because they saw a distressed asset that, with investment, would quickly become worth way more than they paid for it. They were right. They clearly know what they're doing.
But let's not descend into hero-worshipping a couple of billionaires. They're here to use us to make money. I know that's how it's supposed to work, and we'll have some fun along the way (hopefully). But let's never confuse them for benevolent benefactors. They're not doing us a favour by being here.
Honestly, this once-great poster. I'm being sick and my guts ache like mad.
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I've a very vague memory of a H&V article post the Inter defeat, so 1991 or 1992, arguing that we would all be happy to see the best players in the world in front of us, even if it meant paying a lot more. We've got that now haven't we?
Cant mind author mind.
Probably me, but "a lot more" then meant a couple of quid rather than a mortgage.
Could have been although I, again vaguely, seem to recall it was later along the pages which would indicate a contributor rather than editorial? Pretty sure, maybe, perhaps, there was a line that said 'Who couldn't find £100 to watch Lothar Matteus'
Answer -Me in them days, and come to mention it these days as well, fuck that.
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And they still made 31% more than us last year!
Presumably that would have been based on 2021-22, when they finished above us in the league and had a long European run.
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And they still made 31% more than us last year!
Presumably that would have been based on 2021-22, when they finished above us in the league and had a long European run.
No that's matchday revenue Percy posted above.
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If it is 21/22 they had 9 home cup games, we had 0.
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I've a very vague memory of a H&V article post the Inter defeat, so 1991 or 1992, arguing that we would all be happy to see the best players in the world in front of us, even if it meant paying a lot more. We've got that now haven't we?
Cant mind author mind.
Probably me, but "a lot more" then meant a couple of quid rather than a mortgage.
Could have been although I, again vaguely, seem to recall it was later along the pages which would indicate a contributor rather than editorial? Pretty sure, maybe, perhaps, there was a line that said 'Who couldn't find £100 to watch Lothar Matteus'
Answer -Me in them days, and come to mention it these days as well, fuck that.
Do you honestly think I'd say I'd pay £100 a match even to watch Charlie Athersmith and Billy Walker reincarnated?
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Considering it was £8 to stand on the Holte v Inter in 1990 maybe whoever wrote it meant £100 for a ST?
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No. Of course not, you have a reputation to live down to. Which is why I said I think said piece was from a contributor, an unworldy, naive, callow youth no doubt.
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Some younger readers may find this interesting, some of the prices, especially Arsenal's, were considered 'crazy'. Ours turned out to be pretty good value as we won the league. As an aside, the following season your ST got you into all home cup matches at no extra charge, that was pretty decent value as well.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbFx3afWcAEMdTW?format=jpg&name=medium)
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Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
To be fair Brighton have achieved nothing and Leicester just got relegated so not sure your point stands.
Brighton achieved more than us last season. Leicester won the league and the FA Cup more recently .
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When we talk about the owners putting in hundreds of millions, they have, but they haven’t done it out of an altruistic need to entertain us
also please do not ever think these guys are putting in any of their own personal money because they aren't . It's all borrowed money
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When we talk about the owners putting in hundreds of millions, they have, but they haven’t done it out of an altruistic need to entertain us
also please do not ever think these guys are putting in any of their own personal money because they aren't . It's all borrowed money
You dont seem to like them very much.
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Brighton haven't had to do it. Leicester didn't. We seem to be paying top prices for tickets while the commercial side is flatlining.
To be fair Brighton have achieved nothing and Leicester just got relegated so not sure your point stands.
We've achieved nothing and I must have imagined Leicester winning the league and the FA Cup.
I certainly didn't imagine them getting relegated when they had to reign in spending.
After they'd won more than we have in over forty years.
Swap places now?
Which of our signings this summer would you not have signed due to the lack of revenue from the increases? Torres, Diaby or Teilemans? In reality that is the kind of choice that would have to be made until revenues from other areas are improved - which they seem quite keen on goven the number of off field appointments recently.
Edit
I should add that I am equally unreasonable. I want unlimited spending, no FFP and an owner that will spunk billions that made his/her money in a nice way and is not an oil state. l also would never ever put 100s of millions of my own cash in. I just don't think thats available right now.
Yes, I would swap places with them now, in return for their previous seven years. I'll tell you which one of our new players I'd do without if you can tell me which one of them a lower price increase would have meant us not signing, or explain why we wouldn't have been able to afford them given that we still apparently have money left over for January Perhaps you can also tell me who else we might have been able to sign if our much-vaunted off-field team had done better in raising income, or why it's us who have to shell out in the hope of the team getting better.
I agree entirely with Dave’s point above. With our current stadium capacity and facilities, it’s a fallacy to think that the increases made are suddenly going to have us competing with the turnover from match day revenue of, say, Spurs with the facilities they have. It will have little to no bearing whatsoever in what is generated. Now that may change with an increased capacity, but not for now.
It seems to be a means of trying to mask commercial under performance which has gone back for many years, decades even. Rather than try and solve this problem we have corporate executive types who think the solution is to inflict their failings onto their most important stakeholders with little regard and yielding little tangible improvement. In the same equally uninspired vein in which they’ve taken on a gambling sponsor.
Purslow went months ago. I feel that it’s currently the classic case of blaming the person who is no longer with the business for what is currently transpiring.
If only the current ‘prudence’ and ‘sustainable’ approach to our on field recruitment was replicated to management of our off field matters which seem to be an entirely different approach to supporters.
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When we talk about the owners putting in hundreds of millions, they have, but they haven’t done it out of an altruistic need to entertain us
also please do not ever think these guys are putting in any of their own personal money because they aren't . It's all borrowed money
No it isn't.
And even if it was, would you borrow £100m then say fuck it lets make it £110m and let the fans in for nowt, and why not lets fuck FFP and borrow another £100m and buy even more players, who cares if we get chucked out of Europe or a points deduction lets just borrow more?
Other peoples money is easy to earn, easy to spend.
Like I say, I think this is more about FFP and pushing to make us competitive than it is milking the fans.
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When we talk about the owners putting in hundreds of millions, they have, but they haven’t done it out of an altruistic need to entertain us
also please do not ever think these guys are putting in any of their own personal money because they aren't . It's all borrowed money
No it isn't.
And even if it was, would you borrow £100m then say fuck it lets make it £110m and let the fans in for nowt, and why not lets fuck FFP and borrow another £100m and buy even more players, who cares if we get chucked out of Europe or a points deduction lets just borrow more?
Other peoples money is easy to earn, easy to spend.
Like I say, I think this is more about FFP and pushing to make us competitive than it is milking the fans.
What’s our current FFP position?
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When we talk about the owners putting in hundreds of millions, they have, but they haven’t done it out of an altruistic need to entertain us
also please do not ever think these guys are putting in any of their own personal money because they aren't . It's all borrowed money
No it isn't.
And even if it was, would you borrow £100m then say fuck it lets make it £110m and let the fans in for nowt, and why not lets fuck FFP and borrow another £100m and buy even more players, who cares if we get chucked out of Europe or a points deduction lets just borrow more?
Other peoples money is easy to earn, easy to spend.
Like I say, I think this is more about FFP and pushing to make us competitive than it is milking the fans.
What’s our current FFP position?
I think we’re eagerly anticipated accounts and analysis from Risso and Swiss Ramble. In advance of that I’d say we are healthily placed.
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When we talk about the owners putting in hundreds of millions, they have, but they haven’t done it out of an altruistic need to entertain us
also please do not ever think these guys are putting in any of their own personal money because they aren't . It's all borrowed money
That is some sweeping statement which is also completely wrong.
Not all owners are the Glazers.
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Charging what they can...hoping that they use it as a test bed for euro games...and once they see uptake from ST is poor they release tickets at a more reasonable rate....can live in hope I guess...
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I have no problem with the club maximising revenue, but I really don't think it's acceptable to walk on filthy floors, sit in filthy stands and piss into blocked urinals.
Or have enough of the beverage left half way through the game that i actually pre paid for!!
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Ashton, I haven’t got £1,000 never mind £100 million. However, if I had our owners amount of wealth, £100 million would be loose change and, if they were to sell the club to new buyers, I’ve no doubt they would recoup more than they’ve put in. Please don’t feel sorry for them, feel sorry for the ordinary fan who can no longer afford to attend Villa matches. At the moment, I can just about afford my season ticket but, for how much longer depends on any future whopping increases.
This, many times over. I don't know if it's reflected amongst real people, or whether I spend too.much time on Twitter, but the sight of Villa supporters saying that if you can't afford a ticket there's plenty who can has saddened me. I've said it before and I still believe it - I wouldn't want success if it meant selling our soul.
This. My hard earned cash is worth the same as everyone else’s. I’m simply priced out of football if I could get tickets and gone are the days I might pop down the villa these days. Kudos to those who support every week home and away but for day trippers like me, the early rounds of a cup were the cheap way of getting to a game. Granted I could still attend one or two games but never with any regularity. It has become the expensive hobby. But one with no entry level anymore.
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To put it in context if you assume the collective net worth of the owners is £10bn £100m is like me spending £48.
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When we talk about the owners putting in hundreds of millions, they have, but they haven’t done it out of an altruistic need to entertain us
also please do not ever think these guys are putting in any of their own personal money because they aren't . It's all borrowed money
You dont seem to like them very much.
I neither like them nor dislike them , i don't know them and never will. I like the way they "rescued" the club though absolutely . I'll probably be priced out and kicked out of my seat in the next few years after nearly 50 years of going down there . I'm a realist though, it is what it is .
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To put it in context if you assume the collective net worth of the owners is £10bn £100m is like me spending £48.
Does that mean the equivalent ticket price for them is £100m?
Seriously, money in football is mind boggling to be honest. I’m wondering if an F1 style price cap would be better or worse. I would say worse
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Ashton, I haven’t got £1,000 never mind £100 million. However, if I had our owners amount of wealth, £100 million would be loose change and, if they were to sell the club to new buyers, I’ve no doubt they would recoup more than they’ve put in. Please don’t feel sorry for them, feel sorry for the ordinary fan who can no longer afford to attend Villa matches. At the moment, I can just about afford my season ticket but, for how much longer depends on any future whopping increases.
This, many times over. I don't know if it's reflected amongst real people, or whether I spend too.much time on Twitter, but the sight of Villa supporters saying that if you can't afford a ticket there's plenty who can has saddened me. I've said it before and I still believe it - I wouldn't want success if it meant selling our soul.
This. My hard earned cash is worth the same as everyone else’s. I’m simply priced out of football if I could get tickets and gone are the days I might pop down the villa these days. Kudos to those who support every week home and away but for day trippers like me, the early rounds of a cup were the cheap way of getting to a game. Granted I could still attend one or two games but never with any regularity. It has become the expensive hobby. But one with no entry level anymore.
For me it's the other way round. When I lived down the road I was just a kid and we were a bit skint, so I only went once in a blue moon.
Now I'd go to every game, but I live 1,000 miles away.
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To put it in context if you assume the collective net worth of the owners is £10bn £100m is like me spending £48.
So, as a percentage of our respective wealth, most of us “pony up” more to watch a single Villa game than our owners’ net spend on transfers since they took over? And we do so dozens of times a season?
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When we talk about the owners putting in hundreds of millions, they have, but they haven’t done it out of an altruistic need to entertain us
They’ve done it because they think they can make the club worth considerably more than they paid for us.
They bought us as a distressed asset for what 60m?
The club is worth at least ten times that now. They’ve invested in terms of having a sensible corporate structure, having a decent squad, all of these things and they are great owners. They saved the club.
But let’s not forget, they’re not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They’re investing to create significant value further down the line. Not because they love the club.
Ahem.
Yep, whilst it's true the owners 'rescued' us. They did so because they saw a distressed asset that, with investment, would quickly become worth way more than they paid for it. They were right. They clearly know what they're doing.
But let's not descend into hero-worshipping a couple of billionaires. They're here to use us to make money. I know that's how it's supposed to work, and we'll have some fun along the way (hopefully). But let's never confuse them for benevolent benefactors. They're not doing us a favour by being here.
Honestly, this once-great poster. I'm being sick and my guts ache like mad.
Ha ha, I genuinely hadn't seen your post, but I really wanted to use the term "distressed asset" again.
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I don’t think that our owners were that cynical, it’s easy with hindsight’s to portray it as that. I also think it is more to do with being able to buy the best past time possible, ie owning a potentially top class PL club.
What is alarming is the almost total disregard for the supporters and a total lack of ability to fix what should be fixable problems. I am hopeing that binning Purslow is the first step towards a better attitude towards commercial and fan engagement.
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so far, unless it's too early to tell, has binning Purslow made any remarkable improvements?
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Well what improvements should we expect so soon?
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The three game package for the European games seems quite sensible. I'll even put the money I won't be puting towards the Everton cup game towards those.
May have been covered elsewhere, but didn't we used to (at least in recent times) get a free cup game on our season tickets?
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Well what improvements should we expect so soon?
something towards value for money :)
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The three game package for the European games seems quite sensible. I'll even put the money I won't be puting towards the Everton cup game towards those.
May have been covered elsewhere, but didn't we used to (at least in recent times) get a free cup game on our season tickets?
yeah, about 1996 :)
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Well what improvements should we expect so soon?
or something sensible and viable suggested at those fans forum events.
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They are simply rotating the fans as the games come thick and fast. The 28,000 or so on the waiting list will be snapping those tickets up. More people get to see Villa. It's win-win. Or win-win-win if the Villa win.
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They are simply rotating the fans as the games come thick and fast. The 28,000 or so on the waiting list will be snapping those tickets up. More people get to see Villa. It's win-win. Or win-win-win if the Villa win.
How real are the numbers on this waiting list? One thing I have thought is that it’s all very well fleecing when things are going reasonably well with last year’s 7th place finish. But what happens if we have the inevitable Villa slump at some point and the club have gone and p*ssed off/isolated the hardcore support?
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I don’t believe the waiting list is anywhere near 28,000. It’s just a figure that has been put out there to panic people into attending all matches. Don’t forget that a lot of people would have gone on the list when season ticket prices were much lower and, probably wouldn’t consider even taking up an offer at current prices.
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I don’t believe the waiting list is anywhere near 28,000. It’s just a figure that has been put out there to panic people into attending all matches. Don’t forget that a lot of people would have gone on the list when season ticket prices were much lower and, probably wouldn’t consider even taking up an offer at current prices.
Oh I believe there is a waiting list of 28,000 in that it’s not a made up figure.
I just don’t believe there’s 28,000 people who would immediately buy a season ticket if the opportunity came up.
I think it’s just 28,000 people whose name were added because there was a waiting list, and it was best to do it just in case they wanted one when the opportunity came up.
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I don’t believe the waiting list is anywhere near 28,000. It’s just a figure that has been put out there to panic people into attending all matches. Don’t forget that a lot of people would have gone on the list when season ticket prices were much lower and, probably wouldn’t consider even taking up an offer at current prices.
Oh I believe there is a waiting list of 28,000 in that it’s not a made up figure.
I just don’t believe there’s 28,000 people who would immediately buy a season ticket if the opportunity came up.
I think it’s just 28,000 people whose name were added because there was a waiting list, and it was best to do it just in case they wanted one when the opportunity came up.
& list is free to join.
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They'll probably start charging to remain on the list eg. £20 a year
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people join the waiting list in the off chance, and probably won't buy a ST - they'll be over a grand by the time people get offered one.
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I don’t believe the waiting list is anywhere near 28,000. It’s just a figure that has been put out there to panic people into attending all matches. Don’t forget that a lot of people would have gone on the list when season ticket prices were much lower and, probably wouldn’t consider even taking up an offer at current prices.
Oh I believe there is a waiting list of 28,000 in that it’s not a made up figure.
I just don’t believe there’s 28,000 people who would immediately buy a season ticket if the opportunity came up.
I think it’s just 28,000 people whose name were added because there was a waiting list, and it was best to do it just in case they wanted one when the opportunity came up.
28,000? I’m number 29,551 and my son is 29,552. I also have a daughter who wants to go on it as well. And we’ll all be buying given the chance. I think the latest I heard there were 35,000 on it.
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If 35,000 season tickets became instantly available tomorrow how many would they really sell?
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42750
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Without getting too Flinty, I don't think it's hard to assume that if there were 35.000 willing to get a season ticket, at least a quarter of them would buy match tickets whatever the circumstances. That means we should never be below 40,000 gates.
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On the subject of attendances there always seem to be small sections of the ground which don't appear to be sold - the bit at the right hand side (looking at the pitch) at the front of L1 in the Lower Holte for example. I always assumed they were slightly restricted view but why aren't the sold on that basis?
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If 35,000 season tickets became instantly available tomorrow how many would they really sell?
34999 at the most :)
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so far, unless it's too early to tell, has binning Purslow made any remarkable improvements?
No, and I hope it is too early to judge.
If this stuff carry’s on next summer then they will deserve all the criticism that will inevitably follow.
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On the subject of attendances there always seem to be small sections of the ground which don't appear to be sold - the bit at the right hand side (looking at the pitch) at the front of L1 in the Lower Holte for example. I always assumed they were slightly restricted view but why aren't the sold on that basis?
They are. I sit in the middle of L2, but on boxing day against Liverpool, my wife decided to come so she had my season ticket and i got one of the only few left, which was L1. From memory it was sold on a restricted view basis, the main restriction was you couldn’t see some of the witton lane including away supporters.
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If 35,000 season tickets became instantly available tomorrow how many would they really sell?
Obviously nothing like 35,000 as you're talking a specific point in time. I am not on the list, but if I was and they called me tomorrow and offered me one, I wouldn't buy one. If they called me in month, maybe I would.
However, the ground holds 42k, 3k away fans, 30k ST holders at the moment and probably 1-2k in the corporates.
If they decided fuck it, let's fill the ground with ST holders (they won't obviously), that's only 7k seats to sell, and I find it hard to believe they'd struggle to shift that many, which would mean we'd have 42k all in. Expand the ground to 50k and it's only another 8k seats.
Football is also one of those weird environments where, yes, demand is inelastic, but also, demand creates demand.
I know they get tourists yada yada but 10 years ago if you'd said West Ham would have the second highest average attendance in the league, people would say you were insane. But there you go.
re the ST list, I reckon there are tons of people like me - had a season ticket for years, many other years buying match by match, currently no season ticket and not on the list, latent but still ingrained support they can tap on.
I'd also say, we are, after this season, going to find ourselves with 7,000 seats less for two seasons, so that is in itself going to create a lot of pent-up demand.
This club has a truly enormous potential catchment area, has tons of history, still feels box-office despite decades of mediocrity. There is absolutely shit loads of potential here, in terms of numbers, and I am sure NSWE wouldn't have bought us, and wouldn't have bought in someone like Heck who did *exactly that* in Philadelphia if it wasn't for this.
There is a reason it's us getting bought by billionaires twice and not, say, Everton, or Leeds.
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Basically, we're massive.
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Have a look at this, from 2007, Professor Tom Cannon from Liverpool University, expert in football finance (and an Everton fan) talking about why some clubs got big investment at the time but not Everton.
WHY WEST HAM AND ASTON VILLA BUT NOT EVERTON?
With West Ham there was a very real London factor, as you have seen with a certain shift in football power from the north to the south. London is seen as one of the most dynamic economies in the world.
Another element with West Ham, which was a peculiarity, was a lot of the talk about possibilities linked to the 2012 Olympics and the possibility of a ground transfer to the Olympic Stadium
I think investors saw that as a real opportunity.
Villa are a genuine long-term potential club. They have history. They have won the European Cup and, despite the fact that Birmingham may get promoted to the Premiership next season, they are still the only major club in the Midlands.
That is a franchise that stretches almost from Leicester and the east Midlands right over to parts of central Wales.
The natural franchise for Villa is probably 15 million people, whereas the natural franchise for Everton is maybe 1.5m.
In financial terms, they look a much better bet than Everton. Their ground is in a good position and they are virtually debt-free.
And they had someone in Doug Ellis who, for all the criticism levelled at him, ran a tight ship that made them debt-free and relatively inexpensive to buy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/e/everton/6469999.stm
Our problem previously was that we were for years run like a corner shop by Ellis, then bought by a billionaire who proved to be hopeless at anything connected with management and got bored, then left to rot for years.
Now we have people who have understood the above and have the brains and financial brawn to make it happen.
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Thank you Paulie. Now I've got that Pet Shop Boys song in my head.
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Sorry, it might help if you just ask yourself this question: do you want to be rich?
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On the subject of attendances there always seem to be small sections of the ground which don't appear to be sold - the bit at the right hand side (looking at the pitch) at the front of L1 in the Lower Holte for example. I always assumed they were slightly restricted view but why aren't the sold on that basis?
They are. I sit in the middle of L2, but on boxing day against Liverpool, my wife decided to come so she had my season ticket and i got one of the only few left, which was L1. From memory it was sold on a restricted view basis, the main restriction was you couldn’t see some of the witton lane including away supporters.
It must be because I sit more-or-less above that section towards the front of K2 I notice them more when they aren’t occupied.