Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on February 21, 2015, 04:55:59 PM
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Really gutted. After all of the positivity this week, it is back to the shit feeling of the last few weeks.
He won't be saying "excellent" I imagine, but Sherwood will be under no illusions the task ahead. This is gutting.
Ciaran Clark and Sinclair the only bright spots today.
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What an absolute fucking disaster. Even a point and a goal would have been progress but instead we managed to bollocks it all up in spectacular fashion.
Welcome Tim, I think you now know how difficult this is going to be.
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Got what we deserved as we have done all season. Utterly shit
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Typical Villa. It really is typical Villa. Fucking gutted.
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Familiar garbage. You can't inject intelligence into players, and our lot are a bunch of thick fucking idiots.
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We're in massive trouble now, that is a terrible result. Vlaar shouldn't play again he was fucking terrible. Delph was fucking woeful. Awful, awful performance.
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Disappointing. Deserved a point, but what a cock up at the end. Dearly me Vlaar. 19th now
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Three years of losing must have conditioned me, it just doesn't hurt any more,i just accept it. Honestly thought we'd win this but problems run deeper clearly and our "attack"" is a disgrace. And Ron vlaar can fuck right off because he's been pretty much crap for three years.
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Doomed.
Thanks Lambert.
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Sherwood will now start to realize that some of these players need not bother in the next few weeks because they shouldn't be picked again. Starting with Gabby.
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Disappointing. Deserved a point, but what a cock up at the end. Dearly me Vlaar. 19th now
Am I missing something? We are 18th.
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Player error cost us. A point would of been well deserved for me but still 36pts to play for and Tim will now have a good idea who's up for the fight.
Chins up...
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The damage was done a long long time ago. The saviour is a month too late. I think we are down now. If the others around us weren't battling and picking up points I'd have more hope.
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Well, we'll certainly be relegated. This team finds it impossible to convert a good position into a win. As soon as they equalised, I knew they'd win it eventually. To be honest, I'd rather just have the season end now, even though we're 19th, because I'm fucking sick of this bollocks every week.
New manager bounce? Fucking bollocks.
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Gabby is fucking pathetic and he needs to go.We're now getting cut adrift, it's looking like 3 of 4 at the moment. Other than Clark and Sinclair they're all hopeless and gutless.
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Today hurt more than usual.
But Sherwood has to learn some very quick lessons.
Gabby is a fucking donkey, that should not be used again this season.
Gil needs to have a more free role to have any effect.
Sanchez has taken it upon himself to give the ball away at every opportunity.
Weimann is a waste of a squad place.
Learns those quick we might stop up, but I doubt it.
Let us hope he is the man to get us back up.
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Disappointing. Deserved a point, but what a cock up at the end. Dearly me Vlaar. 19th now
Am I missing something? We are 18th.
19th
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Familiar Lambertian bollocks in many ways - players looking jumpy with the ball, the lack of confidence to try things, it comes back so quickly.
Sherwood? Well, we had a bit of a lift early on, and there was more energy about the display. However, I don't think the formation did us any favours, and hoofing the ball up to Benteke from literally minute one had the effect of three shots overall. The formation wasn't responsible for the goals, though - that was some world class fucking rubbish defending on both counts from the individuals involved.
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Absolute fucking shit. I really fucking hate these players sometimes.
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Yep, gutted here too. I didn't see that coming, particularly after we started so positively. The players looked confident and knew what they were doing. Conceding the equaliser on the stroke of h/t killed us and we were so timid in the second half. Having said that, we ended up creating two or three more good chances but then gave the whole fucking thing away in a moment of madness.
I know we've been saying all season that this isn't a bottom 6 squad and maybe that's true but the fact is that too many of our players just aren't doing enough. Every game we have four, five, six players who offer nothing all day. Looking at that positively, I would expect Sherwood to come to a view on who they are a lot quicker than Lambert did.
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Does anyone have any idea why Delph always goes into his right foot, when it is much use as a perforated condom?
I feel a bit responsible as everything I've touched today has turned to shit. All my teams on the accumulator lost and I out Gill and Vlaar in my fantasy team today.
The side are utterly devoid of any confidence
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Let's not start accepting we're down now. There are twelve games to go and we can still escape. Time to grow some balls.
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Our GD is worth one less point, so we can't even rely on that. Lambert really has fucked us over.
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Big clear-out needed, I'm afraid.
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1 step forwards and 2 back again
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Familiar Lambertian bollocks in many ways - players looking jumpy with the ball, the lack of confidence to try things, it comes back so quickly.
Sherwood? Well, we had a bit of a lift early on, and there was more energy about the display. However, I don't think the formation did us any favours, and hoofing the ball up to Benteke from literally minute one had the effect of three shots overall. The formation wasn't responsible for the goals, though - that was some world class fucking rubbish defending on both counts from the individuals involved.
and in both cases bollocks defending from a player who should know a lot better and has really let us down today.
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Big clear-out needed, I'm afraid.
There will be when were in the Championship
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We were absolutely clueless going forward after the first goal, and then gave it up with two pieces of terrible defending.
Not really a fan of the formation either, since Gabby was a waste of space again, while Delph and Sanchez aren't good enough on the ball to work it around in a two-man midfield.
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The formation wasn't responsible for the goals, though - that was some world class fucking rubbish defending on both counts from the individuals involved.
Yep, I know we went into this on the match thread, and I know we disagree, but if so many of our players underperform (or in Gabby's case, are past it, or in Andi's case, never really had it) it's going to make fuck all difference what system we play.
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Well all the delusion that has come with the arrival of messiah Tim and everyone neglecting that we are just way short for this league has been quickly expelled. 31000 as well, pathetic. Where has our fight and pride gone??
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It's made worse in the sense we will have to win the Smethwick game at home meaning he might have to rest players for the cup game a real lose lose.
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Disappointing. Deserved a point, but what a cock up at the end. Dearly me Vlaar. 19th now
Am I missing something? We are 18th.
19th
I'm looking at the table right now, we are 18th level with QPR.
(http://oi61.tinypic.com/kbon0j.jpg)
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We got excited bout delphs new contract but what does he do? Really? Since said contract he's been dreadful
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Today hurt more than usual.
But Sherwood has to learn some very quick lessons.
Gabby is a fucking donkey, that should not be used again this season.
Gil needs to have a more free role to have any effect.
Sanchez has taken it upon himself to give the ball away at every opportunity.
Weimann is a waste of a squad place.
Learns those quick we might stop up, but I doubt it.
Let us hope he is the man to get us back up.
Our set pieces are also embarrassing. Gabby and Vlaar have got to go. We're absolutely buried.
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It's the manner of the defeat that is so damaging. That was a must win game we couldn't even draw.
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Relegation is coming there are too many brain dead footballers playing here.
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The formation wasn't responsible for the goals, though - that was some world class fucking rubbish defending on both counts from the individuals involved.
Yep, I know we went into this on the match thread, and I know we disagree, but if so many of our players underperform (or in Gabby's case, are past it, or in Andi's case, never really had it) it's going to make fuck all difference what system we play.
Yep. Formation hobbled us, as did the long balls, but a few players should be embarrassed to take their paychecks after that.
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1pt will take us out of the bottom three and people are saying it's over, BOO HOO! Get a grip, 36pts left to play for and we we're unlucky not to get a point today.
Next stop Newcastle.
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Utter, utter shite!
Every player except Clark should hang their head in shame, Hutton and Sanchez probably less so but that was fucking pointless.
No tactics other than hoof ball to a Stoke defence that lapped it up all day. The midfield was overrun from the first minute, bullied all over the pitch and we despite running around a lot, never looked threatening.
A point would have flattered us but Vlaar wanted to win the Stupidity Prize and despite many challengers he showed he's a complete twat. Today was as bad as we've been probably all season. What makes it worse is Stoke had such a weakened team and they looked so comfortable. Pathetic.
Wankers the lot of them.
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Disappointing. Deserved a point, but what a cock up at the end. Dearly me Vlaar. 19th now
Am I missing something? We are 18th.
19th
I'm looking at the table right now, we are 18th level with QPR.
(http://oi61.tinypic.com/kbon0j.jpg)
that table is incorrect. Burnley are ahead of us on GD, and we are behind QPR for the same reason.
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Disappointing. Deserved a point, but what a cock up at the end. Dearly me Vlaar. 19th now
Am I missing something? We are 18th.
19th
I'm looking at the table right now, we are 18th level with QPR.
(http://oi61.tinypic.com/kbon0j.jpg)
That's before today's fixtures
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The table above is wrong as us and Burnley have played 26 games not 25
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Deflated in the way only the Villa can make you feel!
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Familiar Lambertian bollocks in many ways - players looking jumpy with the ball, the lack of confidence to try things, it comes back so quickly.
Sherwood? Well, we had a bit of a lift early on, and there was more energy about the display. However, I don't think the formation did us any favours, and hoofing the ball up to Benteke from literally minute one had the effect of three shots overall. The formation wasn't responsible for the goals, though - that was some world class fucking rubbish defending on both counts from the individuals involved.
Pretty much this. Saves me typing on the train.
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Very depressing. Keeping Lambert in the job for so long has knackered us.
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1pt will take us out of the bottom three and people are saying it's over, BOO HOO! Get a grip, 36pts left to play for and we we're unlucky not to get a point today.
Next stop Newcastle.
We weren't unlucky and that's the problem. We have a group of players who are performing pathetically below par.
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1pt will take us out of the bottom three and people are saying it's over, BOO HOO! Get a grip, 36pts left to play for and we we're unlucky not to get a point today.
Next stop Newcastle.
you're right we are not down. But it's not like the last few months gives any indication as to where the next points are coming from. Even 1 point today would have got us out of the bottom 3 and we couldn't manage that. It sounds easy but clearly we are proving week after week that it isn't.
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The first half showed lots of promise, but they should have sacked Lambert far earlier to give the new man a decent chance to turn things round. Too many players just aren't good enough - Agbonlahor, Weimann, Cissokho and Sanchez looks way off the pace.
And I never want to see that arse Vlaar again, dismal excuse for a defender and captain.
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1pt will take us out of the bottom three and people are saying it's over, BOO HOO! Get a grip, 36pts left to play for and we we're unlucky not to get a point today.
Next stop Newcastle.
We've lost six league games in a row and are 19th and showing no signs of improvement.
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Oh.
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Disappointing. Deserved a point, but what a cock up at the end. Dearly me Vlaar. 19th now
Am I missing something? We are 18th.
19th
I'm looking at the table right now, we are 18th level with QPR.
(http://oi61.tinypic.com/kbon0j.jpg)
That's a week old
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We will go down bottom.
Lerner I bet he don't even know the result yet,
The players will be looking carefully at their relegation release clauses tonight. Wankers the lot of em.
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^This, absolutely. This was never going to be an easy job, but it IS doable!
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We can't even rely on chavski beating Burnley. How the fuck did they get a point there?
When you're in the shit at the bottom, that's just the sort of thing that happens.
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well it was a fun week dreaming.
now reality is back.
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Positives- We tried to push forward. Looked good value at 1-0. Richardson coming off seemed to weaken our left side in both defence and attack.
Sinclair was lively. Gil always looks for the ball and tries to keep things calm. He wasn't at his best, or fittest, but he's got quality. We need him playing.
Negatives- Unfit. Too many players who aren't good enough. Sherwood has already shown he's not afraid to ruffle feathers with the likes of TC and Westwood being dropped after too much coasting. He's got to do the same with Gabby and Weimann now.
Vlaar is done here. He's never been great. I think Okore needs to come back in again as we'll need his pace. We're gonna be open. It's got to be gung ho it would seem. It's the only way we'll score goals with the current players.
Benteke looks woeful still. What has happened?
Overall we kind of remind me of O Leary's side. For a time it worked with DOL. Fast tempo, direct, and showing attacking intent. It took him a while to get us going. Half a season. Sherwood doesn't have that time sadly. Ultimately even if TS gets it right I think he'll hit a brick wall, much like O Leary (we looked good in 2004 but a bit shambolic aside from that under him), unless he becomes more tactically astute or brings a coach or D.O.F in who can provide a bit of nous.
Though we weren't good today I felt we deserved a point though. Vlaar shot us in the foot. I do think a game like today, under Lambert, we'd have been nailed on for a fizzled, lacklustre defeat which undoubtedly would have been described as excellent. Many of the team showed plenty of desire today at least.
The next three games are essential. We can pick up points. But a lot of hard work and weeding is required this week.
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1pt will take us out of the bottom three and people are saying it's over, BOO HOO! Get a grip, 36pts left to play for and we we're unlucky not to get a point today.
Next stop Newcastle.
We weren't unlucky and that's the problem. We have a group of players who are performing pathetically below par.
I disagree
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1pt will take us out of the bottom three and people are saying it's over, BOO HOO! Get a grip, 36pts left to play for and we we're unlucky not to get a point today.
Next stop Newcastle.
We've lost six league games in a row and are 19th and showing no signs of improvement.
To put it into context we are 9 points away that's a whole three wins away from 31 points.
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Have a few injuries? On a losing run? Fear not, Aston Villa will help get your season back on track.
How will these topflight clubs cope when they don't have soft touch Villa to milk for an easy three points next season.
Brainless from the captain. Brainless, to go with his lack of fitness. A winning combination.
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All the positivity this week was silly - the fundamentals are the same, irrespective the manager. We have been a shambolic club now for several years, and frankly, Sherwood wont change much. Its Lerner who is the issue. Plain and simple. As a club, we are doomed while he remains at the helm.
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1pt will take us out of the bottom three and people are saying it's over, BOO HOO! Get a grip, 36pts left to play for and we we're unlucky not to get a point today.
Next stop Newcastle.
We weren't unlucky and that's the problem. We have a group of players who are performing pathetically below par.
I disagree
You don't think that our players are doing worse than they should be doing?
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1pt will take us out of the bottom three and people are saying it's over, BOO HOO! Get a grip, 36pts left to play for and we we're unlucky not to get a point today.
Next stop Newcastle.
We weren't unlucky and that's the problem. We have a group of players who are performing pathetically below par.
I disagree
You don't think that our players are doing worse than they should be doing?
I do. They are massively underperforming.
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The first half showed lots of promise, but they should have sacked Lambert far earlier to give the new man a decent chance to turn things round. Too many players just aren't good enough - Agbonlahor, Weimann, Cissokho and Sanchez looks way off the pace.
And I never want to see that arse Vlaar again, dismal excuse for a defender and captain.
This.
I could see Sherwood having an impact here, were this the summer and he could shape some of these players up and ship out some dross, but with 13 games left (now 12)? I think it would be a hell of a task for Mourinho, never mind Tim Sherwood.
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Bottom line is we're running out of games and I saw no improvement today. I would actually say that was far worse than anything we saw under Lambert.
I cant see any way out of this. Stoke were poor, yet still won the game.
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Vlaar had a shocker for both goals.
That said the midfield was struggling all game and Ireland was probably the best player on the pitch mearly because he had so much room.Gil coming off was a suprise but I asume it was due to him being out injured in last game and wouldnt of made 90 mins.Wiemann did ok but dear god the guy's crossing is abysmal.
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1pt will take us out of the bottom three and people are saying it's over, BOO HOO! Get a grip, 36pts left to play for and we we're unlucky not to get a point today.
Next stop Newcastle.
We weren't unlucky and that's the problem. We have a group of players who are performing pathetically below par.
I disagree
You don't think that our players are doing worse than they should be doing?
I do. They are massively underperforming.
Yep they appear to be a squad with no professional pride.
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Crap performance, utter dirge. That was a Lambert performance - we should have been in the position of a new manager sorting out his team at least a month ago. 12 games to go and I don't think this lot have it in them. I really think we're fucked now.
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Lerner is going to get what he deserves. A championship side worth fuck all .
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1pt will take us out of the bottom three and people are saying it's over, BOO HOO! Get a grip, 36pts left to play for and we we're unlucky not to get a point today.
Next stop Newcastle.
We've lost six league games in a row and are 19th and showing no signs of improvement.
Give the new guy a chance man. He was close to picking up a draw, can't help player error. Plenty of time yet.
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I'll tell you what, there's no worries about Benteke leaving in the summer. Nobody is going to want him based on what he's become. When we need our best players to come through and dominate games as we have seen him do, he's gone missing. Someone will come and offer a pittance and we won't sell is likely how it will pan out if this carries on.
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Lerner is going to get what he deserves. A championship side worth fuck all .
I think you are right. We are now massive favourites to go down. And deservedly so.
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Crap performance, utter dirge. That was a Lambert performance - we should have been in the position of a new manager sorting out his team at least a month ago. 12 games to go and I don't think this lot have it in them. I really think we're fucked now.
Same here. The lack of quality and composure second half was frightening. I really used to like Weimann as a player, but for a professional player to take a corner as badly as he did in the second half shows just how low his stock has fallen. He literally didn't do a single thing that wasn't woeful.
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I do. They are massively underperforming.
Some of them are underperforming. Some of them are just shit.
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Crap performance, utter dirge. That was a Lambert performance - we should have been in the position of a new manager sorting out his team at least a month ago. 12 games to go and I don't think this lot have it in them. I really think we're fucked now.
Same here. The lack of quality and composure second half was frightening. I really used to like Weimann as a player, but for a professional player to take a corner as badly as he did in the second half shows just how low his stock has fallen. He literally didn't do a single thing that wasn't woeful.
he got into good positions in a few instances on the right and outright wasted every opportunity
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How can sanchez still get a start ? he gives the ball away every time he bloody touches it ! I hope that Sherwood will turn things round, it was only he's first game in charge and there's a lot to be done after the mess lambert left us in, but still this wasn't good enough, first half was good, but the second one had lambert written all over it. We need to stop dropping points in the last 15 minutes ffs.
We need to win at least two of our next four games ( Newcastle, West Brom, Sunderland, Swansea ) before taking on United and Tottenham, and more importantly QPR.
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I'll tell you what, there's no worries about Benteke leaving in the summer. Nobody is going to want him based on what he's become. When we need our best players to come through and dominate games as we have seen him do, he's gone missing. Someone will come and offer a pittance and we won't sell is likely how it will pan out if this carries on.
One season wonder. You have to ask yourself if that is why he was relatively cheap
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Good - Clark / Sinclair
Bad
Sanchez - legs had gone after an hour, surprised he didn't get a red
Gil - looked a 3m player, Messi he isn't
Gabby - any clues on what he does / offers?
Vlaar - plank
Cissokho - offers nothing
Delph - corners, really?
Benteke - average
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Lerner is going to get what he deserves. A championship side worth fuck all .
Spot on. How he could have let this happen almost beggars belief for a so-called businessman. It's been an almost perfect lesson in how to ruin a business.
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Lerner is going to get what he deserves. A championship side worth fuck all .
Yep, Lerner is getting what he deserves but the great Aston Villa isn't getting what it deserves, that's for certain.
No point any of us chucking in the towel, though. We have got to show some fight and scrap our way out of this.
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I find it staggering just how bad our set pieces are.
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It will be interesting to hear Sherwood's media comments. I feel numb. So much for the new manager bounce. We are a soft touch and the players need to grow some balls and stand up and be counted.
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1pt will take us out of the bottom three and people are saying it's over, BOO HOO! Get a grip, 36pts left to play for and we we're unlucky not to get a point today.
Next stop Newcastle.
We weren't unlucky and that's the problem. We have a group of players who are performing pathetically below par.
I disagree
You don't think that our players are doing worse than they should be doing?
I do. They are massively underperforming.
True. Some are shit. Weimann for example. He's not good enough, clearly.
I also think TS will suffer from the state of fitness he's inherited with this squad. Too many players look fucked after an hour, and have done all season.
I look at defence and the left side looks poor still (though Rico was good today and missed when he left). Vlaar hasn't earned his place. Clark and Okore have been better (on the whole) this season. In fact Vlaar has been poorest of the five on the whole.
I look at CM and only Delph looks good enough, and even he's been comparatively poor compared to last season. Sanchez looks lost in high tempo games and that he didn't get a red today is a miracle. He looked an accident waiting to happen.
Attacking midfield we've got Sinclair and Gil who look lively. Gil's had injury niggles which held him back today though. Grealish and Bacuna need to come in now too.
Up front is a nightmare situation though. Benteke looks more Benteskey at the moment. Gabby is fat, slow and has always looked shit with a ball at his feet. Weimann is a poor player too. And that's it. No more options. Missing out on R Lambert may well cost us.
Huge job. We need a couple of results in the next three.
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I'll tell you what, there's no worries about Benteke leaving in the summer. Nobody is going to want him based on what he's become. When we need our best players to come through and dominate games as we have seen him do, he's gone missing. Someone will come and offer a pittance and we won't sell is likely how it will pan out if this carries on.
He'll go on a knock down price because of what he's become but people will remember what he's capable of and think they can get that out of him in a better team.
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If nothing else Sherwood and his coaching staff have got the jolt they needed. Everything was optimistic during the week and coming off an FA Cup win. There was a great feeling and the training pitch can be such a deceiving environment. When he sits down tonight and watches the game again with his staff he'll really start to realize what a task he has in front of him.
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I'll tell you what, there's no worries about Benteke leaving in the summer. Nobody is going to want him based on what he's become. When we need our best players to come through and dominate games as we have seen him do, he's gone missing. Someone will come and offer a pittance and we won't sell is likely how it will pan out if this carries on.
He'll go on a knock down price because of what he's become but people will remember what he's capable of and think they can get that out of him in a better team.
That's just it, I don't think we'll sell at a knock down price.
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I'll tell you what, there's no worries about Benteke leaving in the summer. Nobody is going to want him based on what he's become. When we need our best players to come through and dominate games as we have seen him do, he's gone missing. Someone will come and offer a pittance and we won't sell is likely how it will pan out if this carries on.
You can't blame Benteke when our tactics are utter shite. Yet again we played into the strengths of the oppositions defence. Hoofing balls into him doesn't work. Maybe the secret to our survival is to drop him as I think it's the only way for the manager and players to realise there are other options.
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Lerner is going to get what he deserves. A championship side worth fuck all .
Spot on. How he could have let this happen almost beggars belief for a so-called businessman. It's been an almost perfect lesson in how to ruin a business.
He isn't though is he really. He's an idiot who got rich through no skill of his own. He looks what he is, completly gormless. I look at him and wonder how he even manages to do his laces up each morning. Perhaps he wears slip ons. He's rapidly becoming the worst thing that ever happened to this club in my eyes and boy did I fall for his gestures at the outset, what a mug.
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I'll tell you what, there's no worries about Benteke leaving in the summer. Nobody is going to want him based on what he's become. When we need our best players to come through and dominate games as we have seen him do, he's gone missing. Someone will come and offer a pittance and we won't sell is likely how it will pan out if this carries on.
You can't blame Benteke when our tactics are utter shite. Yet again we played into the strengths of the oppositions defence. Hoofing balls into him doesn't work. Maybe the secret to our survival is to drop him as I think it's the only way for the manager and players to realise there are other options.
I think he played poorly, but the hoof-tactics were really quite depressing.
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I'll tell you what, there's no worries about Benteke leaving in the summer. Nobody is going to want him based on what he's become. When we need our best players to come through and dominate games as we have seen him do, he's gone missing. Someone will come and offer a pittance and we won't sell is likely how it will pan out if this carries on.
He'll go on a knock down price because of what he's become but people will remember what he's capable of and think they can get that out of him in a better team.
That's just it, I don't think we'll sell at a knock down price.
Depends what division we're in.
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I fear that the American Idiot's dithering may have left insufficient time to turn things around. Lack of fitness, lack of confidence, too many sub-standard players (that's you Gabby) and a greater than average propensity for players to shoot their own team in the foot via red cards and gifting goals to the opposition (Vlaar's turn today on both counts). Unless Sherwood can come up with some very quick fixes we are toast this time. Ditching Gabby would be a big start, absolutely pointless player.
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Lerner is going to get what he deserves. A championship side worth fuck all .
Lerner perhaps - he is as clueless an owner as you could get - but those of us who'll still be here after he's long gone don't deserve year after year of mismanagement ending in relegation.
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I am absolutely gutted. Randy Lerner and his indifference and negligence and absolute contempt for the club, the fans and the institution has ruined us.
Even seeing him lose £200m will not soften the blow of what's coming. He's an idiot and coward of the highest order.
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It will be interesting to hear Sherwood's media comments. I feel numb. So much for the new manager bounce. We are a soft touch and the players need to grow some balls and stand up and be counted.
Frustrating part is that we started lively but ran out of steam. I still thought we warranted a point because Stoke weren't even that good today. To be fair they can look better and on another day may have picked us apart, but Vlaar really gave it away.
How he lines up next week will give an indication of just how aggressively he'll approach this job. Surely he's got to address the fact that Andi and Gabby are shit and hold the team back.
I don't envy him sorting out CM though. It's a poor selection to choose from. Delph + 1 or 2 unsuited/poor players.
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It will be interesting to hear Sherwood's media comments. I feel numb. So much for the new manager bounce. We are a soft touch and the players need to grow some balls and stand up and be counted.
This. As a fan it feels like Villa is just a way to ruin a perfectly good weekend. The "good" news is that Championship games are not covered much here in the USA so next season at least there will be a forced moving away from me watching.
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Gabby is fucking pathetic and he needs to go.
That's all very well, but who instead? Weimann is utter toss.
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Tim:
Thought it was a poor game of football and neither side deserved to win it. Thought it was a nothing game. Gutted to lose it at the end. No one said it was going to be easy. Need an injection of confidence with a win. Told the players in the dressing room they didn't deserve to lose but didn't do enough to win it.
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I find it staggering just how bad our set pieces are.
It's hilarious the number of corners and free kicks we've had this season and we still don't know what the hell to do. When I see them all huddle together, pushing each other in the box I just know we won't do anything. What a shambles.
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to much to do and to little time left to save us
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I'm looking at the table right now! We're top!
(http://retrotext.uk/wp-content/uploads/Div1_1980_81-300x225.png)
We needed the famous bounce today. But our dead cat just went splat.
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I'll tell you what, there's no worries about Benteke leaving in the summer. Nobody is going to want him based on what he's become. When we need our best players to come through and dominate games as we have seen him do, he's gone missing. Someone will come and offer a pittance and we won't sell is likely how it will pan out if this carries on.
You can't blame Benteke when our tactics are utter shite. Yet again we played into the strengths of the oppositions defence. Hoofing balls into him doesn't work. Maybe the secret to our survival is to drop him as I think it's the only way for the manager and players to realise there are other options.
Trouble is Mark, what are the other options? Gabby and Weimann who were both embarrassingly bad today. Such a shame about Kozak because he'd have walked into the side today.
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What got me the most was the lack of fight. We're in the shit good and proper, New manager in, points to get and there was no urgency.
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I think he's been here 1 week and you're blasting him already. Forget the last 20 something games, they don't matter, nothing to do with him. He started from today and we were "player error" away from picking up a good point. Yea we lost so none of that matters but I have more faith in him than I did in Lambert that we can still pick up a few points to stay up.
I can't believe 1 point will take us out of the bottom three and it's pandemonium on here, we're doomed. Mental!
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I am absolutely gutted. Randy Lerner and his indifference and negligence and absolute contempt for the club, the fans and the institution has ruined us.
Even seeing him lose £200m will not soften the blow of what's coming. He's an idiot and coward of the highest order.
We do have some good players here. Trouble is they will all leave should we go down and we'll be left with a skeleton crew of our poorer players, largely untried youngsters and the returning Lambert rejects. I wouldn't expect us to come straight up. In fact I think a double drop would be more likely than an instant return. Leeds/Man City (minus City's fairytale turnaround). There's some big clubs wallowing in the Championship and L1. We'd be in similar company.
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Lerner is going to get what he deserves. A championship side worth fuck all .
Spot on. How he could have let this happen almost beggars belief for a so-called businessman. It's been an almost perfect lesson in how to ruin a business.
He isn't though is he really. He's an idiot who got rich through no skill of his own. He looks what he is, completly gormless. I look at him and wonder how he even manages to do his laces up each morning. Perhaps he wears slip ons. He's rapidly becoming the worst thing that ever happened to this club in my eyes and boy did I fall for his gestures at the outset, what a mug.
He's the George W. Bush of football.
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Lerner is going to get what he deserves. A championship side worth fuck all .
Spot on. How he could have let this happen almost beggars belief for a so-called businessman. It's been an almost perfect lesson in how to ruin a business.
If the NFL had relegation then the Browns would no doubt have gone down, too. Lerner may be a well-meaning man, but he is extremely naive.
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I think he's been here 1 week and you're blasting him already. Forget the last 20 something games, they don't matter, nothing to do with him. He started from today and we were "player error" away from picking up a good point. Yea we lost so none of that matters but I have more faith in him than I did in Lambert that we can still pick up a few points to stay up.
I can't believe 1 point will take us out of the bottom three and it's pandemonium on here, we're doomed. Mental!
Stoke at home is a 'good point'? It was a must-win.
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Benteke will leave do not doubt that. He will have a relegation release clause, as will delph, possibly Guzan and hutton .
Vlaar, bent, cleverly, Sinclair, are all gone anyway.
We will be left with championship players which is quite fitting - lowton, westwood , Clark, etc etc.
Weimann may be able to do his "season over whoop whoop" tweet earlier this year.
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Mr Lerner will be informed of our latest defeat after his primal scream session, Ayurvedic colon cleansing and reiki coccyx massage.
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Gabby is fucking pathetic and he needs to go.
That's all very well, but who instead? Weimann is utter toss.
Weimann as a central striker is much better and also at least he tries.
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I'll tell you what, there's no worries about Benteke leaving in the summer. Nobody is going to want him based on what he's become. When we need our best players to come through and dominate games as we have seen him do, he's gone missing. Someone will come and offer a pittance and we won't sell is likely how it will pan out if this carries on.
You can't blame Benteke when our tactics are utter shite. Yet again we played into the strengths of the oppositions defence. Hoofing balls into him doesn't work. Maybe the secret to our survival is to drop him as I think it's the only way for the manager and players to realise there are other options.
Trouble is Mark, what are the other options? Gabby and Weimann who were both embarrassingly bad today. Such a shame about Kozak because he'd have walked into the side today.
The option is to stop bloody hoofing it. Play to his strengths. Create space. Stop asking him to what I don't know.. flick it on?
It's so pointless and today was no different but what made it worse was Stoke had two players today that were there to be exploited and yet we decide to play to their strengths. Utter stupidity.
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Losing is a dangerous habit and we are seemingly, hooked.
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I'll tell you what, there's no worries about Benteke leaving in the summer. Nobody is going to want him based on what he's become. When we need our best players to come through and dominate games as we have seen him do, he's gone missing. Someone will come and offer a pittance and we won't sell is likely how it will pan out if this carries on.
You can't blame Benteke when our tactics are utter shite. Yet again we played into the strengths of the oppositions defence. Hoofing balls into him doesn't work. Maybe the secret to our survival is to drop him as I think it's the only way for the manager and players to realise there are other options.
He's a part of the problem and great players if that what he aspires to be he can dictate a good portion of the solution. Yes, off course the tactics, system all play a part in it, be has to do a lot more and defenders are dominating him when in the past he would do it to them. When was the last time he pushed a defender of the ball, or simply bullied the keeper? He needs something simple to get himself going again and he's not even attacking the box as he used to. He has to force the issue as much the play around him needs to improve.
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I'd be half tempted to play Lowton on the right wing, because going forward he's good and he can cross.
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Gabby is fucking pathetic and he needs to go.
That's all very well, but who instead? Weimann is utter toss.
Put a youngster in. He couldn't do less.
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Bit of an anti-climax. Sad thing is that it was like quite a few games at home under Lambert where we start strongly get the lead, but struggle to build on it and when we don't get a second we slowly fall back into our shells. Stoke are a good side and you can't do that against them. A draw would have been a decent result to kick off Sherwood's reign to conceed a pen and lose in the last minute like that was really poor. Its that sort of last minute loss which could prove crucial if we end up going down. Sadly, the other results didn't go our way either except maybe QPR losing. At least it is all very tight.
Just heard Sherwood on FIVELIVE and he thinks that it was a boring game which should have ended a draw, Pat Murphy seems to disagree ;)
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I repeat as a central striker Weimann can do a job, but as a wide man he's awful.
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I think he's been here 1 week and you're blasting him already. Forget the last 20 something games, they don't matter, nothing to do with him. He started from today and we were "player error" away from picking up a good point. Yea we lost so none of that matters but I have more faith in him than I did in Lambert that we can still pick up a few points to stay up.
I can't believe 1 point will take us out of the bottom three and it's pandemonium on here, we're doomed. Mental!
It isn't Sherwood people are having a go at.
It is the monumental clusterfuck which Fox and Lerner allowed Lambert put together over so long a period.
Look at the table. Look at the current form. Six defeats in a row and no sign of anything getting better, and you're genuinely surprised people are doomish? Really?
We won't get relegated because we appointed Sherwood. We'll get relegated because we left Lambert in the job for way, way too long.
We are a dreadfully poor team. A decent squad, but a piss poor team.
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I think he's been here 1 week and you're blasting him already. Forget the last 20 something games, they don't matter, nothing to do with him. He started from today and we were "player error" away from picking up a good point. Yea we lost so none of that matters but I have more faith in him than I did in Lambert that we can still pick up a few points to stay up.
I can't believe 1 point will take us out of the bottom three and it's pandemonium on here, we're doomed. Mental!
It isn't Sherwood people are having a go at.
It is the monumental clusterfuck which Fox and Lerner allowed Lambert put together over so long a period.
Look at the table. Look at the current form. Six defeats in a row and no sign of anything getting better, and you're genuinely surprised people are doomish? Really?
We won't get relegated because we appointed Sherwood. We'll get relegated because we left Lambert in the job for way, way too long.
We are a dreadfully poor team. A decent squad, but a piss poor team.
Although I'm not too delighted with Sherwood today. The big idea - 4-4-2 and long balls - was pretty uninspiring. And Gabby got 90 minutes.
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I am surprised how many people stick up for Gabby, to be honest.
Week after week, offers the square root of fuck all, ambles around like he's having a kickabout on the beech, yet seems to get away with it.
There aren't many clubs where a player who offers as little as he does gets to start so many games. Same with Weimann, although at least in his case he seems prepared to at least run about a bit.
Gabby is the absolute perfect human incarnation of our meek acceptance of utter shite over the last few years, I'm afraid. His new contract was almost as stupid as Lambert's.
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It is the monumental clusterfuck which Fox and Lerner allowed Lambert put together over so long a period.
We won't get relegated because we appointed Sherwood. We'll get relegated because we left Lambert in the job for way, way too long.
Exactly. Which is why it bugs me when I hear we acted 'decisively' when it was fairly clear even as early as the end of last season that Lambert had to go. Leaving it until February this year was madness.
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I think he's been here 1 week and you're blasting him already. Forget the last 20 something games, they don't matter, nothing to do with him. He started from today and we were "player error" away from picking up a good point. Yea we lost so none of that matters but I have more faith in him than I did in Lambert that we can still pick up a few points to stay up.
I can't believe 1 point will take us out of the bottom three and it's pandemonium on here, we're doomed. Mental!
It isn't Sherwood people are having a go at.
It is the monumental clusterfuck which Fox and Lerner allowed Lambert put together over so long a period.
Look at the table. Look at the current form. Six defeats in a row and no sign of anything getting better, and you're genuinely surprised people are doomish? Really?
We won't get relegated because we appointed Sherwood. We'll get relegated because we left Lambert in the job for way, way too long.
We are a dreadfully poor team. A decent squad, but a piss poor team.
Although I'm not too delighted with Sherwood today. The big idea - 4-4-2 and long balls - was pretty uninspiring. And Gabby got 90 minutes.
Sherwood at least has the excuse he has only been in the job six days or whatever it is and has only just put his backroom staff together. It is understandable that he is going to take time to get the best he can out of the players.
And that is precisely the problem. We do not have time, and that is the fault squarely of Lerner and Fox for sitting there in cloud cuckoo land for so long whilst this utter mess was being created.
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It takes a long time to turn around a wayward ship, but we have to believe we can do it with the games we have left. Everybody wants us to roll over, give in without a fight, but the battle isn't over yet and the fans can play a part in it. Let's not give up just yet.
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I think he's been here 1 week and you're blasting him already. Forget the last 20 something games, they don't matter, nothing to do with him. He started from today and we were "player error" away from picking up a good point. Yea we lost so none of that matters but I have more faith in him than I did in Lambert that we can still pick up a few points to stay up.
I can't believe 1 point will take us out of the bottom three and it's pandemonium on here, we're doomed. Mental!
Stoke at home is a 'good point'? It was a must-win.
But that is being disrespectful to Stoke they are a strong mid-table top flight team with a good manager who lets face it we would just love right now. With it being Sherwood's first game and the promise of a lift then I think there was a hope we could have got a win, but a draw would have been a decent result. One of the differences between Stoke under Pulis and now is that their away form is much better.
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I think he's been here 1 week and you're blasting him already. Forget the last 20 something games, they don't matter, nothing to do with him. He started from today and we were "player error" away from picking up a good point. Yea we lost so none of that matters but I have more faith in him than I did in Lambert that we can still pick up a few points to stay up.
I can't believe 1 point will take us out of the bottom three and it's pandemonium on here, we're doomed. Mental!
It isn't Sherwood people are having a go at.
It is the monumental clusterfuck which Fox and Lerner allowed Lambert put together over so long a period.
Look at the table. Look at the current form. Six defeats in a row and no sign of anything getting better, and you're genuinely surprised people are doomish? Really?
We won't get relegated because we appointed Sherwood. We'll get relegated because we left Lambert in the job for way, way too long.
We are a dreadfully poor team. A decent squad, but a piss poor team.
Although I'm not too delighted with Sherwood today. The big idea - 4-4-2 and long balls - was pretty uninspiring. And Gabby got 90 minutes.
I'm guessing the plan was to hoof it into the area and for Gabby to nick one in a scramble.
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Really, firing him in December would have been the best time. It would have given the new manager a month of prep, a month for the transfer window and we'd be much better off now. Well theoretically anyway. All ifs and buts off course.
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I find it staggering just how bad our set pieces are.
It's hilarious the number of corners and free kicks we've had this season and we still don't know what the hell to do. When I see them all huddle together, pushing each other in the box I just know we won't do anything. What a shambles.
That's understandable, they aren't expecting the ball to make it to them anyway - and we rarely disappoint them.
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We got out of that EXACTLY what we deserved.
Absolutely, fuck all!
There was no passion, no effort, no endeavour. Absolutely nothing.
Not a single player, except Clark, was worth a positive mention today.
The team is broken, broken far more than Sherwood can fix.
I think there is little doubt that we are now going down.
Lerner, you bastard, I hope you are happy!
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Some radical changes needed now.
Next week I'd go as follows.
Given in for Guzan
Okore in for Vlaar
Cleverley in for Sanchez
Weimann in for Gabby
Bacuna for Gil.
Fuck me this is desperate.
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He has that excuse, but it doesn't mean his tactics today were much cop. Clearly, the total lack of confidence and imagination in the second half is a Lambert-era problem, but the long balls - famously absent for most of the season (and to no success) - returned, and looked about as effective as trebuchet launching balloons at a castle.
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I think he's been here 1 week and you're blasting him already. Forget the last 20 something games, they don't matter, nothing to do with him. He started from today and we were "player error" away from picking up a good point. Yea we lost so none of that matters but I have more faith in him than I did in Lambert that we can still pick up a few points to stay up.
I can't believe 1 point will take us out of the bottom three and it's pandemonium on here, we're doomed. Mental!
Stoke at home is a 'good point'? It was a must-win.
Must win? So don't win and we're mathematically, 100% down? No...a must win would be last game of the season against Burnley, winner stays up.
A point in Tim's first game in charge would of been good, and I thought we we're unlucky to not take a point. If Lambert was here we wouldn't have scored today and been well beaten.
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Bit harsh on Sinclair.
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Really, firing him in December would have been the best time. It would have given the new manager a month of prep, a month for the transfer window and we'd be much better off now. Well theoretically anyway. All ifs and buts off course.
Giving him the new contract meant they couldn't do it until they had absolutely no other choice.
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I think he's been here 1 week and you're blasting him already. Forget the last 20 something games, they don't matter, nothing to do with him. He started from today and we were "player error" away from picking up a good point. Yea we lost so none of that matters but I have more faith in him than I did in Lambert that we can still pick up a few points to stay up.
I can't believe 1 point will take us out of the bottom three and it's pandemonium on here, we're doomed. Mental!
Stoke at home is a 'good point'? It was a must-win.
But that is being disrespectful to Stoke they are a strong mid-table top flight team with a good manager who lets face it we would just love right now. With it being Sherwood's first game and the promise of a lift then I think there was a hope we could have got a win, but a draw would have been a decent result. One of the differences between Stoke under Pulis and now is that their away form is much better.
what is clear is that teams like Stoke are pretty deep with the same types of player, so when a starting player gets injured the replacement isn't a huge drop off in quality and knows to play the same way. That's a consequence of having in place a system of recruitment that they believe in to secure their PL position. Hughes has moved away from it slightly with the likes of Bojan or Ireland, but the core is still big and strong players who can get stuck in at this level.
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He has that excuse, but it doesn't mean his tactics today were much cop. Clearly, the total lack of confidence and imagination in the second half is a Lambert-era problem, but the long balls - famously absent for most of the season (and to no success) - returned, and looked about as effective as trebuchet launching balloons at a castle.
I think you need to give him a bit more time before judging him.
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I think he's been here 1 week and you're blasting him already. Forget the last 20 something games, they don't matter, nothing to do with him. He started from today and we were "player error" away from picking up a good point. Yea we lost so none of that matters but I have more faith in him than I did in Lambert that we can still pick up a few points to stay up.
I can't believe 1 point will take us out of the bottom three and it's pandemonium on here, we're doomed. Mental!
Stoke at home is a 'good point'? It was a must-win.
Must win? So don't win and we're mathematically, 100% down? No...a must win would be last game of the season against Burnley, winner stays up.
A point in Tim's first game in charge would of been good, and I thought we we're unlucky to not take a point. If Lambert was here we wouldn't have scored today and been well beaten.
Can't argue with your last sentence, but Stoke were exactly the sort of team - nothing really to play for - that sides getting themselves out of trouble tend to beat at this stage of the season. I don't like our April at all, have to say.
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Just got home. Not bad for the first half an hour, utter wank after that. Not helped by the odd time we did do anything useful the crosses were gash, from open play and set pieces. Gabby and Sanchez were woeful. Benteke not much better but it's hard for him to do anything good or bad when he never has the fucking ball.
Sinclair, Hutton and Clark my only real plus points from the game.
And Vlaar, I won't miss you when you leave. Sheer fucking amateurish stupidity. Twat.
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Newcastle will be foaming at the mouth for next week. They owe us a relegation.
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Some radical changes needed now.
Next week I'd go as follows.
Given in for Guzan
Okore in for Vlaar
Cleverley in for Sanchez
Weimann in for Gabby
Bacuna for Gil.
Fuck me this is desperate.
Only Okore for Vlaar I would consider from those.
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Really, firing him in December would have been the best time. It would have given the new manager a month of prep, a month for the transfer window and we'd be much better off now. Well theoretically anyway. All ifs and buts off course.
Hopefully one day we'll eventually learn and fire our managers at the end of the season. Lambert certainly didn't deserve another season and yes, I know what you're thinking.. TSM. ;)
The other point I guess we will reflect on later is that with Fox coming in in late October, having never held a CEO job before, it was always unlikely he'd fire Lambert a few weeks into his new job. It really was a perfect storm.
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He has that excuse, but it doesn't mean his tactics today were much cop. Clearly, the total lack of confidence and imagination in the second half is a Lambert-era problem, but the long balls - famously absent for most of the season (and to no success) - returned, and looked about as effective as trebuchet launching balloons at a castle.
I think you need to give him a bit more time before judging him.
The tactics were bad. You don't need six months to not hoof the ball aimlessly at two defenders with a combined height of 13 feet.
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We won't go again:
"I am bitterly disappointed. I didn't think we deserved to lose the game but we didn't do enough to win it. We have to go and do a job and forget any anxiety.
"It will be a work in progress, there is a lot of work to be done and I've told the lads that. We have to brave and get on the ball.
"There is no point in me getting a big stick out and banging them on the head with it. It is about me getting the best out of them for the remaining games.
"We will improve. It is a very short amount of time to get instructions into them but we will get better and we need to keep this great club in the Premier League. We are not thinking about going down."
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He has that excuse, but it doesn't mean his tactics today were much cop. Clearly, the total lack of confidence and imagination in the second half is a Lambert-era problem, but the long balls - famously absent for most of the season (and to no success) - returned, and looked about as effective as trebuchet launching balloons at a castle.
I think you need to give him a bit more time before judging him.
The tactics were bad. You don't need six months to not hoof the ball aimlessly at two defenders with a combined height of 13 feet.
But it is only his first game.
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I bet Lambert and mcleish are sat on park bench together tonight with a bottle of Bells
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The tactics were bad. You don't need six months to not hoof the ball aimlessly at two defenders with a combined height of 13 feet.
Okay, you don't like 442, we get that already.
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He has that excuse, but it doesn't mean his tactics today were much cop. Clearly, the total lack of confidence and imagination in the second half is a Lambert-era problem, but the long balls - famously absent for most of the season (and to no success) - returned, and looked about as effective as trebuchet launching balloons at a castle.
I think you need to give him a bit more time before judging him.
The tactics were bad. You don't need six months to not hoof the ball aimlessly at two defenders with a combined height of 13 feet.
But it is only his first game.
What, in football? In his life? Maybe his tactics will get better, but today they weren't very good. Why not criticise him if we think he's made mistakes just because he's new?
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I find it staggering just how bad our set pieces are.
It's hilarious the number of corners and free kicks we've had this season and we still don't know what the hell to do. When I see them all huddle together, pushing each other in the box I just know we won't do anything. What a shambles.
That's understandable, they aren't expecting the ball to make it to them anyway - and we rarely disappoint them.
Thanks. That just made me laugh and the mood I'm in, after that bloody shambes, is much appreciated.
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We got out of that EXACTLY what we deserved.
Absolutely, fuck all!
There was no passion, no effort, no endeavour. Absolutely nothing.
Not a single player, except Clark, was worth a positive mention today.
The team is broken, broken far more than Sherwood can fix.
I think there is little doubt that we are now going down.
Lerner, you bastard, I hope you are happy!
Very poor display second half and we ended up throwing away a point. I thought Vlaar was better than that, perhaps not. It was a horrible game but at 44 minutes I felt we were very comfortable and likely to win so I can't agree there was no effort, just very short on confidence and quality on the ball.
I see corners haven't improved yet.
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The tactics were bad. You don't need six months to not hoof the ball aimlessly at two defenders with a combined height of 13 feet.
Okay, you don't like 442, we get that already.
I didn't mention 4-4-2 in that post. It was about the long balls. Address my points, for goodness' sake.
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What really fucked me off is the amount of times we'd fail to even attempt a cross when having the ball wide in the final third, pass it all the way back to defenders or Guzan for them to promptly hoof it into the box. Fucking put the ball in the box when there's men in the box, not when everyone has left it. It's fucking basic stuff you cock sockets.
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Some of you are right, a lot of you are wrong.
Still think we'll stay up.
Drinks.
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We don't have any set plan for corners do we. It's just do whatever you think at the time.
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I despair.I would drop gabby, benteke, weimann, CissOkho, Delph.Put in a.n.other that gives a fuck, and go down with some semblance of caring.
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Only a complete bunch of morons would keep playing balls in the air to players - who hadn't won an aerial challenge all game .
Only a complete bunch of morons would play every single corner the same way - straight into the keepers hands or for a stoke player to head away.
Unfortunately our side is currently overrun with complete fucking morons .
We got nowhere near Nzonzi all day - why not change to 3-5-2 and get an extra player in midfield to sit on him ?
Why not play the ball on the floor into the channels ?
And Gabby - if you ever wear a villa shirt again it will be too soon .
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What really fucked me off is the amount of we'd fail to even attempt a cross when having the ball wide in the final third, pass it all the way back to defenders or Guzan for them to promptly hoof it into the box. Fucking put the ball in the box when there's men in the box, not when everyone has left it. It's fucking basic stuff you cock sockets.
That's why I'd play Lowton wide right. If he doesn't have to defend he's a good player and can cross.
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Well I feel sick to the stomach with today's game.
Let's hope the whiteness of others keeps us up once more.
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I'm looking at the table right now! We're top!
(http://retrotext.uk/wp-content/uploads/Div1_1980_81-300x225.png)
We needed the famous bounce today. But our dead cat just went splat.
New manager bounce is possibly football's biggest myth. Nothing more than under performing teams returning to their natural level. Unfortunately we've been performing at about our level all season, so there's no natural upturn in results to be expected.
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We are just awful, I missed the game due to being away for half term so watched here.
I am not quite sure where to start. Those of us who have travelled and seen every team against us will tell you we are the worst team we have seen all year, week after week. We have deserved to go down for many a season now and this is just the culmination of those years.
I am not sure Sherwood is a good fit long term as he will throw his toys out one too many times and be gone but really the board could care less about the 3 year contract it was all about an immediate bounce to stay up this year.
Gabby has been my pet hate for a few seasons now, he is a total chancer who has played well for a 15 minute spell every 8 games or so, misses multiple games a year with "injuries" and can sniff a manager in trouble so goes through the motions because it will always be someone elses fault. Him under Mcleish should have been enough to get rid of him but he survived another manager or 2 or 3 and still produces nothing.
The club bloods a CEO with no experience then when he gets experience gets rid and gets another with no experience to make a managerial appointment in a 48 hour window. The Owner is hiding under his desk in New York as the pressure is on from his family and trustees of the money. It is a lot easier to avoid all this when you are 4000 miles away and can switch and watch the simpsons instead.
We really are a mess, with some fantastic people in the club and community but completely disfunctional where it really matters on the pitch and particularly in the board room.
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I can imagine Sherwood getting home tonight, closing the door behind him and thinking/saying "oh, fuck, what have I done...".
Hopefully he'll have learnt quickly from this. Who is shite and who is less shite.
After last weeks result, maybe he should've gone with the team that turned it around 2nd half? Hindsight's a wonderful thing though...
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Really worried about us but wouldn't be surprised if we go and win at the bar codes next week. That said, we cant keep saying that our next few games are winnable because we just ain't winning. Take each game as it comes.
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The tactics were bad. You don't need six months to not hoof the ball aimlessly at two defenders with a combined height of 13 feet.
Okay, you don't like 442, we get that already.
I didn't mention 4-4-2 in that post. It was about the long balls. Address my points, for goodness' sake.
This isn't about long balls though is it? The point you've been making all day - and have done since time began - is that you don't like 442. In that sense it doesn't matter who delivers it or how well it is implemented. Buddha, Lester Pigott, Scooby Doo or Eddie Cochran could be in the dugout but if they played 442 you wouldn't rate it or them. You appear blind to the possibility that it can and does work As with any system it relies on good players playing well; we don't have enough good players and most of the players we do have aren't playing well. We don't have the time or the players to try anything other than football at its most basic. Like I said earlier, Sherwood has to go with the method he most believes in and which he thinks will get us the most points, rather than to achieve some theoretical aesthetic nirvana.
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Some radical changes needed now.
Next week I'd go as follows.
Given in for Guzan
Okore in for Vlaar
Cleverley in for Sanchez
Weimann in for Gabby
Bacuna for Gil.
Fuck me this is desperate.
Only Okore for Vlaar I would consider from those.
Really? Sanchez, and Gil were appalling. Bacuna looked lively last week and looked capable of creating chances.
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We didn't deserve to win today but no way we deserved to lose it. Having said teams who get relegated are not only bad teams they are unlucky teams. We were unlucky in terms of timing for both goals and incompetent. For the first time in 4/5 seasons of struggle I am starting to think that we will go down.😒
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Well I feel sick to the stomach with today's game.
Let's hope the whiteness of others keeps us up once more.
Shiteness I meant
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Calm heads
30+ points to play for.
New manager has had a chance to look at what he has inherited.
Needs to make his choices, he is the only hope we have , so lets support him.
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The tactics were bad. You don't need six months to not hoof the ball aimlessly at two defenders with a combined height of 13 feet.
Okay, you don't like 442, we get that already.
I didn't mention 4-4-2 in that post. It was about the long balls. Address my points, for goodness' sake.
This isn't about long balls though is it? The point you've been making all day - and have done since time began - is that you don't like 442. In that sense it doesn't matter who delivers it or how well it is implemented. Buddha, Lester Pigott, Scooby Doo or Eddie Cochran could be in the dugout but if they played 442 you wouldn't rate it or them. You appear blind to the possibility that it can and does work As with any system it relies on good players playing well; we don't have enough good players and most of the players we do have aren't playing well. We don't have the time or the players to try anything other than football at its most basic. Like I said earlier, Sherwood has to go with the method he most believes in and which he thinks will get us the most points, rather than to achieve some theoretical aesthetic nirvana.
City playing 4-4-2 v Newcastle...and Colback picks up his 10th yellow, misses game against us
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Calm heads
30+ points to play for.
New manager has had a chance to look at what he has inherited.
Needs to make his choices, he is the only hope we have , so lets support him.
Yaaaaay!! When Russia attack I want you on my side.
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Calm heads
30+ points to play for.
New manager has had a chance to look at what he has inherited.
Needs to make his choices, he is the only hope we have , so lets support him.
Yaaaaay!! When Russia attack I want you on my side.
I hope the Russian attack is as effective as Gabby.
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Calm heads
30+ points to play for.
New manager has had a chance to look at what he has inherited.
Needs to make his choices, he is the only hope we have , so lets support him.
Yaaaaay!! When Russia attack I want you on my side.
I hope the Russian attack is as effective as Gabby.
:)
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Actually Hilts, my post really was about the long balls, which can happen in any formation. You appear to be having a different conversation to the one I'm having. I was talking about long balls, not formations, but apparently you're determined to change the subject while acting like you're not.
It's no good just saying unbelievably obvious platitudes 'Sherwood has to go with the method he most believes in and which he thinks will get us the most points' (well, gee, thanks professor) - what if he's wrong? I think he got it wrong today, in a few ways, most of which aren't the formation. It's not about 'aesthetic nirvana' (again, I like the implied ad hominem - it's beneath you, Hilts, it really is) it's about getting the football wrong on the pitch. Debate those points with me, if you want. Or we can just have a general discussion about 4-4-2, which I do actually think can work in some situations based on what I've seen. Not that that fits your straw man image of me and my views, I'm sure.
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...and Colback picks up his 10th yellow, misses game against us
That is good news, he is their best player by a mile.
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Did we have a shot? With a kick I mean, not counting headers. I can't remember a single one.
Why not Bacuna for Gil? At least he can take a decent set piece. Our corners were dire once Gil went off. Weimann is not a winger.
Gabby was absolutely shocking, diabolical, horrific. He should be ashamed, because of him we had 10 men today.
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Sherwood is a massive gamble. He has little experience as a manager. let alone a Premier league boss. I am worried about him as he often speaks in the third person, which is a worrying sign. Despite this I still feel that the villa squad is stronger than QPR, Burnley and Leicester. Our main Problem is April, where i cant see any points at all. Premiership survival will depend on others.
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I think today showed that any view that the players are good enough to stay up is most probably misplaced.
Only Clark Hutton and Sinclair came out with credit. Stoke were no great shakes but a defensive disaster cost us a point.
Not Guzan's fault but does he ever look like saving a penalty? Only wish we could even get one this season.
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Stoke were the wrong team to play today. Bigger stronger and quicker. Better organised and well versed in the dark arts of the Premiership.
I think that we have players lacking confidence, players lacking experience and players who don't give a fuck. Absentee landlord Lerner's witless imcompetence seems to have reduced us to Plucky Scufflers FC.
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The way we were constantly outmuscled today was embarrassing.
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Guzan used to have an excellent reputation for saving penalties. But I assume that's wholly based on Sunderland in the League Cup?
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The way we were constantly outmuscled today was embarrassing.
Typical Stoke/Mark Hughes team. Hate them, but you have to find a way.
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I don't know how many corners we had, but half of them didn't get above waist high. Terrible technique. Players have no real fight or passion. What was Vlaar thinking? A right cock-up!
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Guzan used to have an excellent reputation for saving penalties. But I assume that's wholly based on Sunderland in the League Cup?
Nobody was saving that one today.
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Gutted but this is what a lack of investment over the past four years from our chairman does to a team. The quality slowly gets less and less.
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And it deserves to be said again, what the fuck are Stoke doing singing that Pride of the Midlands shite? As for singing about empty seats, look in your end before trying that one. Northern twats.
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Some radical changes needed now.
Next week I'd go as follows.
Given in for Guzan
Okore in for Vlaar
Cleverley in for Sanchez
Weimann in for Gabby
Bacuna for Gil.
Fuck me this is desperate.
Only Okore for Vlaar I would consider from those.
Really? Sanchez, and Gil were appalling. Bacuna looked lively last week and looked capable of creating chances.
When you say Bacuna looked lively, he did one thing. Now, admittedly it resulted in a goal, but, realistically, how often is that going to happen?
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I don't know how many corners we had, but half of them didn't get above waist high. Terrible technique. Players have no real fight or passion. What was Vlaar thinking? A right cock-up!
Vlaar has been rubbish for us. Permanently crocked or making mistakes when in the team. I trust that's the last we've seen of him after today. Okore and Clark for the rest of the season please.
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We are running out of winnable games, we are getting cut adrift. What a shocking state of affairs the club is in.
After the 0-2 at hull last week I knew that was it .
We are BY FAR the worst team in the league and will finish 20th.
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Half-time team talk.
Gabby.
Weimann on the wing.
Movement up front.
Midfielders hitting the box.
So, have we changed manager or not? I'm confused.
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I don't know how many corners we had, but half of them didn't get above waist high. Terrible technique. Players have no real fight or passion. What was Vlaar thinking? A right cock-up!
Vlaar has been rubbish for us. Permanently crocked or making mistakes when in the team. I trust that's the last we've seen of him after today. Okore and Clark for the rest of the season please.
As I said in the summer when people were going all Rita Hayworth that he was into his final year, I don't blame the club at all. Nothing special for us, when he does actually manage to make it on to the pitch. I won't be bothered when he leaves in a few months, and I hope he does.
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Not a fan of the long ball but Benteke won everything today. The problem was that Gabby never anticipated anything.
If Gill had to go off today due to injury bacuna should have come on. Weimann's ability is questionable but his confidence is shot.
Cleverely was decent last week so I would have retained him
Set pieces were woeful. Never rated Delph as some on here and today was another poor performance.
Unfortunately we haven't got any players in the squad who could introduce and get a lift.
I think we are doomed because i don't see where the inspiration is coming from to change anything
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Positives today - Clark and Sinclair, we scored, we so very nearly got a point that would have lifted us out of the bottom three
Negatives today - everything else
Supporting Villa has been an utterly joyless experience for some time now and I hope Tim Sherwood is able to do something about this very quickly or else we are down
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I'm thinking the statements about having a good squad are bullocks. Very attacking line up today and still as turgid. Becoming resigned to it now
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Vlaar used to our best defender, no question. He wouldn't be the only player to have a good World Cup and a shocking season after. But I'd certainly question his commitment and what that's done for his form.
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sanchez really needs to be left out, westwood is far better.
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Sherwood very honest said it was a Poor football match that neither team deserved to win.
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Went to Villa Park today full of hope and intact expectation and guess for 30 minutes was quite happy .....
However the problem will always be there when the spine of any team fails ....today Vlaar, Delph and Benteke were again very poor
yes there were others who were also poor but those three are possibly the name players who we need to rely on ...
Sherwood must wonder tonite what he has let himself in for ...... lets hope another week can put things right or at least start
Have to also say that thought the size of the crowd less than 32k was disappointing today ...I expected about 37k and I did not feel at anytime there was a buzz in the stadium - it was flat
All in all a really poor day ...makes me wonder why I spent 3 hours getting through to the ticket office this morning for the cup game
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Actually Hilts, my post really was about the long balls, which can happen in any formation. You appear to be having a different conversation to the one I'm having. I was talking about long balls, not formations, but apparently you're determined to change the subject while acting like you're not.
It's no good just saying unbelievably obvious platitudes 'Sherwood has to go with the method he most believes in and which he thinks will get us the most points' (well, gee, thanks professor) - what if he's wrong? I think he got it wrong today, in a few ways, most of which aren't the formation. It's not about 'aesthetic nirvana' (again, I like the implied ad hominem - it's beneath you, Hilts, it really is) it's about getting the football wrong on the pitch. Debate those points with me, if you want. Or we can just have a general discussion about 4-4-2, which I do actually think can work in some situations based on what I've seen. Not that that fits your straw man image of me and my views, I'm sure.
If I have an image your views it comes solely from what you post on here - often that is about tactics, particularly the shortcomings of 442 and your dislike of it. If I said you were a big fan of 442 and agreed with Sherwood's use of it, that would be misrepresenting your views. If I think your views on tactics are largely theoretical, in some cases way off the mark and of limited applicability to a relegation struggle, which I do, then I am entitled to say so. There's nothing ad hominem about that: it's a genuinely held and, admittedly, forcefully expressed belief. It's not a personal attack for goodness' sake: I'm not saying 'Monty hates 442 because he's an idiot', I'm saying 'Monty's got a massive blind spot re 442 and I think he's wrong'. If you think I'm being unfair then I would respectfully disagree.
And yes maybe Sherwood is wrong, maybe he did get it wrong today. But as Mike Brearley said when journos questioned his tactics, "You never know, the alternative might have been still worse." (I accept this may the one and only time Sherwood and Brearley are mentioned in the same paragraph.) Which most of this season has been the case. When I say Sherwood has to go with the method he most believes in it's because with 12 games to go and points desperately needed he'd be an idiot if he did anything else. I hope and expect that he will tweak his tactics depending on the game but I'm not expecting him to trial a tactical method neither he nor the players are familiar with. That really would be pissing in the wind.
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Guzan used to have an excellent reputation for saving penalties. But I assume that's wholly based on Sunderland in the League Cup?
Bosnich, now he had an excellent reputation for saving penalties. I rate Guzan, more than I rate Given, but he's showing the effects of a long and miserable season in which he's had to work bloody hard. It's a shame he's having this dip right when we need him the most but he's one of the three or four players I have most confidence in.
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On the way home we tried to remember a goal bound shot from our lot, in either half. There wasn't one. It was a truly disappointing performance. Apart from Ciaran Clark ,that is ,who Mr Lambert would have called "excellent", and he would have been right, there was very little else.
Hutton showed enthusiasm and energy and Sinclair scored a good goal and that was about it. In the pre match thread I suggested Delph should be benched, I was right. Sanchez tried hard but is not suited to a high tempo pace and Carles Gil was knocked off the ball a lot and possibly was not fully fit.
If people on this forum think Darren Bent is a busted flush how can Agbonlahor's constant abysmal performances be described? He was awful.
I think Sherwood has taken on too much and we are not going to stay up.
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One day I might be able to watch and possibly record match of the day...
Pointless today....
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If we are to have any hope we need players who are ready to fight to the death, unfortunately we have too few. The 'style' today was as much of a contrast to that under Lambert as it could have been but with the same shite outcome. Individual errors costs us at the end of each half. In truth we didn't do enough against a truly horrible Stoke City team. Perhaps Sherwood can now see the size of the job & those players he can rely on but on the evidence of today, I think It's too late. He's certainly no saviour.
Gabby's contribution, as it has been for at least 2 seasons, was non-existent, problem is Weimann offers little more.
A midfield of Gil, Delph, Sanchez & Sinclair is not good enough or strong enough to play in the Premiership. Gil should only be used as an impact player, Sanchez is too slow / reckless & as a defensive midfielder Delph flatters to deceive. I'd like to see Delph further forwards.
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Actually Hilts, my post really was about the long balls, which can happen in any formation. You appear to be having a different conversation to the one I'm having. I was talking about long balls, not formations, but apparently you're determined to change the subject while acting like you're not.
It's no good just saying unbelievably obvious platitudes 'Sherwood has to go with the method he most believes in and which he thinks will get us the most points' (well, gee, thanks professor) - what if he's wrong? I think he got it wrong today, in a few ways, most of which aren't the formation. It's not about 'aesthetic nirvana' (again, I like the implied ad hominem - it's beneath you, Hilts, it really is) it's about getting the football wrong on the pitch. Debate those points with me, if you want. Or we can just have a general discussion about 4-4-2, which I do actually think can work in some situations based on what I've seen. Not that that fits your straw man image of me and my views, I'm sure.
If I have an image your views it comes solely from what you post on here - often that is about tactics, particularly the shortcomings of 442 and your dislike of it. If I said you were a big fan of 442 and agreed with Sherwood's use of it, that would be misrepresenting your views. If I think your views on tactics are largely theoretical, in some cases way off the mark and of limited applicability to a relegation struggle, which I do, then I am entitled to say so. There's nothing ad hominem about that: it's a genuinely held and, admittedly, forcefully expressed belief. It's not a personal attack for goodness' sake: I'm not saying 'Monty hates 442 because he's an idiot', I'm saying 'Monty's got a massive blind spot re 442 and I think he's wrong'. If you think I'm being unfair then I would respectfully disagree.
And yes maybe Sherwood is wrong, maybe he did get it wrong today. But as Mike Brearley said when journos questioned his tactics, "You never know, the alternative might have been still worse." (I accept this may the one and only time Sherwood and Brearley are mentioned in the same paragraph.) Which most of this season has been the case. When I say Sherwood has to go with the method he most believes in it's because with 12 games to go and points desperately needed he'd be an idiot if he did anything else. I hope and expect that he will tweak his tactics depending on the game but I'm not expecting him to trial a tactical method neither he nor the players are familiar with. That really would be pissing in the wind.
That's going to be the litmus test for Sherwood. He's going to have become tactically astute very quickly now as well as retain all of the confidence and bravado that is associated with him. He's going to have to look at the game and find all of things he never wants to see again, and communicate that to the players, resulting in playing players who can understand quickly and execute those instructions. Whether it is 4-4-2, 4-5-1 or any other formation is largely immaterial to finding anything that works to get the first win. He can figure out the absolute right formation for this team in the long run as he starts to bring in and ship out players based on his beliefs. Right now he doesn't have the luxury of time so what he did today he felt would work, given what he thought he had after one week of training. He's either going to stick to it or try something else and see if that works in the next game. There's nothing at all perfect about this.
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This is the lowest I've felt all season, and boy there have been some epic Lows.
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I'm going to get shot down in flames for this but I think its more than possible Benteke won't score for us again, stay up or go down, he'll be gone.
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If I have an image your views it comes solely from what you post on here - often that is about tactics, particularly the shortcomings of 442 and your dislike of it. If I said you were a big fan of 442 and agreed with Sherwood's use of it, that would be misrepresenting your views. If I think your views on tactics are largely theoretical, in some cases way off the mark and of limited applicability to a relegation struggle, which I do, then I am entitled to say so. There's nothing ad hominem about that: it's a genuinely held and, admittedly, forcefully expressed belief. It's not a personal attack for goodness' sake: I'm not saying 'Monty hates 442 because he's an idiot', I'm saying 'Monty's got a massive blind spot re 442 and I think he's wrong'. If you think I'm being unfair then I would respectfully disagree.
And yes maybe Sherwood is wrong, maybe he did get it wrong today. But as Mike Brearley said when journos questioned his tactics, "You never know, the alternative might have been still worse." (I accept this may the one and only time Sherwood and Brearley are mentioned in the same paragraph.) Which most of this season has been the case. When I say Sherwood has to go with the method he most believes in it's because with 12 games to go and points desperately needed he'd be an idiot if he did anything else. I hope and expect that he will tweak his tactics depending on the game but I'm not expecting him to trial a tactical method neither he nor the players are familiar with. That really would be pissing in the wind.
You can say they're theoretical, and have limited applicability, but you never actually give me much by way of examples. It's hard to argue with this: every tactic you might like is practical, and everything else is highfalutin hypotheses from the ivory tower. This is clearly an unfair way to debate. Anyway, it's hardly 'theoretical' to say 'the long balls didn't work' or 'the 4-4-2 gave us too few passing options in the middle'. That's just what happened. As for the Brearley quote, sure, an alternative might not have worked, but what he did do didn't work and in very predictable ways. It's the predictability which frustrates.
On 4-4-2 - it's partly my fault, but it's too simplistic just to say '4-4-2 doesn't work'. It's a particular kind of 4-4-2 played in a particular way to try and achieve a particular end which I don't like. But then, if I went into more detail you'd probably accuse me of being too 'theoretical'.
Again, Sherwood may believe in it, but that has no relevance at all to whether he's right or wrong. As a matter of fact he has changed the methods immediately and quite drastically - Lambert had been failing this season with blunt possession every bit as much as he did with useless hoofing - and to play a formation the team hasn't actually played in years while changing the approach as well is quite the big step. And yes, I agree, pissing in the wind. As it happens, I don't think we lost today because of the tactics, it's more that they didn't help us win much, IMO. We lost because of the dumb-as-nuts defending.
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Very disappointed at the way we played today, was expecting a lot more to be honest than just hoof ball
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That midfield selection was always going to be a risk - even though in the end it was poor defending from someone who should be more reliable than he currently is.
Whatever division we're in next season, I can see a big change in personnel in the squad.
I've become inured to the losses this season - that's how bad it is.
Went to see Harrogate town beat Chorley 4-1 this afeternoon ...
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At least we haven't had either a false dawn or honeymoon period.
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I don't know how many corners we had, but half of them didn't get above waist high. Terrible technique. Players have no real fight or passion. What was Vlaar thinking? A right cock-up!
Vlaar has been rubbish for us. Permanently crocked or making mistakes when in the team. I trust that's the last we've seen of him after today. Okore and Clark for the rest of the season please.
As I said in the summer when people were going all Rita Hayworth that he was into his final year, I don't blame the club at all. Nothing special for us, when he does actually manage to make it on to the pitch. I won't be bothered when he leaves in a few months, and I hope he does.
Spot on.
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I'm going to get shot down in flames for this but I think its more than possible Benteke won't score for us again, stay up or go down, he'll be gone.
Of course he will be gone , most of the internationals will have release clauses
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Re: the tactics discussion, Sherwood is faced with players who had three years of counter-attacking and punting it up to Benteke, then all of a sudden being told to keep hold of the ball at all costs. Lambert couldn't have made more of a pig's ear of things if he'd tried, and Sherwood s going to have the devil's own job putting that right.
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I'm going to get shot down in flames for this but I think its more than possible Benteke won't score for us again, stay up or go down, he'll be gone.
He looks unenthused, totally lacking in confidence and devoid of energy. It's shocking a player who looked on the verge of being a Worldy, suddenly looks fucking awful. He's not getting the service, and the standard of player around him isn't always brilliant but he's not working hard enough for me.
We'll be lucky to get 10 mill for him. A player who on top form could have fetched us around 25 million.
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Re: the tactics discussion, Sherwood is faced with players who had three years of counter-attacking and punting it up to Benteke, then all of a sudden being told to keep hold of the ball at all costs. Lambert couldn't have made more of a pig's ear of things if he'd tried, and Sherwood s going to have the devil's own job putting that right.
Undoubtedly. He's got a squad not nearly fit enough to play the high tempo that Sherwood will require, and ultimately playing a high tempo is probably the only way we could effectively play with these players.
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I'm going to get shot down in flames for this but I think its more than possible Benteke won't score for us again, stay up or go down, he'll be gone.
He looks unenthused, totally lacking in confidence and devoid of energy. It's shocking a player who looked on the verge of being a Worldy, suddenly looks fucking awful. He's not getting the service, and the standard of player around him isn't always brilliant but he's not working hard enough for me.
We'll be lucky to get 10 mill for him. A player who on top form could have fetched us around 25 million.
He's a 1 season wonder.
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On the way to the game for the first time in ages I was nervous and apprehensive as I thought we could win a game.More fool me ,that game confirmed what we all know,we ain't got the qualities required to avoid relegation and Sherwood will be powerless to do anything about it.
The blame lies completely with Lerner for running the club into the ground,even to the point of waiting way to late to change the most useless manager in our history,I feel sorry for Sherwood,yes he didn't get it right today, but the players just ain't good enough ,down we go!
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Sherwood out, obviously.
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This is like a nightmare. We are 19th in PL and Tim Sherwood is our manager. You couldn't make it up
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. He's going to have become tactically astute very quickly now
He doesn't even have his Pro A license- we are work experience for him
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Just got back to Cotton Village. Gutted and disappointed in the main but there were some bright spots.
Guzan - 6 No chance with either goal and didn't do a lot else wrong.
Hutton - 6 got forward well and defended ok
Vlaar - 4 had been reasonably steady up to his mistake at the end
Clark - 7 seemed comfortable and no major issues
Richardson - 5 ok before he had to go off
Chissohko - 4 for such a big bloke gets outmuscled fr too easily and offers nothing going forwards
Sanchez - 5 competitive but still prone to a few misplaced passes
Delph - 4 poor today
Gil - 5 poor in his own half but better further up the pitch, didn't look fit
Sinclair - 6 started well, good goal then faded badly in the second half
Agbonlahor - 1 quite literally a fucking disgrace, did he do anything of note?
Weimann - 4 as ever can't fault his work rate but can fault the quality of any pass he tried to make
Benteke - 4 the big guy is woefully out of form and self confidence
Sherwood - 5 not a fan of 442 as it left us outnumbered in midfield and Whelan and Nzonzi ended up running the show second half, encouraging first 30-40 mins and something to build on. Felt we mixed up the longer and shorter stuff well. A point would have been a fair reflection of the game.
Oh and I still fucking hate Stoke, haven't changed from the Pulis era.
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One of our biggest problems is that our (central) midfielders are out of form (Sanchez, Delph) or not very good (Westwood, Cleverley). One way to deal with this is to go for quantity instead of quality, and that's one of the reasons why I don't think 4-4-2 is a very good choice right now.
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Took fucking ages to get back so haven't read the thread yet (the roadworks at Spaghetti are causing real problems - and it will only get worse - for the Albion league game the M6 North is shut at J7 from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m. so Christ knows which way I'll get back). Anyway... really needed to win that, or get a draw as a minimum. It seems our new tactic is route 1 launch to Benteke - bit naive when your playing Sturk, aka Land of the Giants. Unsurprisingly it didn't work. And given that he was always marked by 3 players maybe a little guile or alternative may have helped. And taking a decent corner may also help. And again given that their defenders are all 9' tall a little variety from set pieces may also have helped. And Gabby moving now and then may have helped. It just goes on and on. Started brightly but we were bullied in midfield throughout a very poor game.
I really think we're going down now - we're simply running out of games and everyone around us is picking up odd points. The blame won't be with Sherwood though - it will rest squarely on the shoulders of Lambert, and Lerner's refusal to sack him before Christmas when we would have had time and games to get clear. Too little too late I'm afraid
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Re: the tactics discussion, Sherwood is faced with players who had three years of counter-attacking and punting it up to Benteke, then all of a sudden being told to keep hold of the ball at all costs. Lambert couldn't have made more of a pig's ear of things if he'd tried, and Sherwood s going to have the devil's own job putting that right.
The trouble with Lambert's holding the ball at all costs was it was too slow, it needed tweaking to speed it up, you know, the way most decent teams play. To revert back to hoofing up to Benteke despite it's failure for most of the season was a ridiculous decision, especially given the opposition.
Where do we go from here next week? Stick with hoofing or drop it completely and try and improve what Lambert failed to do? On today's performance I'd imagine Sherwood never got to see any videos of us this season so hopefully his new video chap can show him how to work the DVD player.
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Best prepare for life in the Championship.
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Best prepare for life in the Championship.
Yup.
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My observations (in no particular order )
We were the equivalent of leaving a bag of chocolate raisins on a radiator. Started off alright, then lost all shape, before melting into a complete unusable wreck
Formation:
The two in the middle were badly outfought and outnumbered today. They offered practically no out all from defence, resulting in us going too direct, most of the time.
Gill was far too deep, dropping deeper to pick he ball up and getting himself into trouble too often. Any mistakes in those areas will result in him losing his confidence instantly. It seemed to affect Hutton's play too, as the link up play was pedestrian and poor.
Style of play:
Sherwood talked of variation. If Benteke was no available, another player would have to be found. Far too often we played it direct to Benteke, who didn't win very much (I was impressed with the German they had a centre half). Where was Agbonlahor, and why was he not running the channels?
Only Sinclair showed any desire, putting a good shift chasing them in possession, and had some decent touches.
Why was Gill not pushed further up the pitch where he can play those deft passes, or even get in a good position to shoot?
It was pleasing that our centre halves (in particular Clark), stopped playing those stupid 5 yard passes to the full back, when the full back clearly has no when to go.
Set pieces again were diabolical. Martin Laursen used to make an average ball a goal scoring opportunity. Blamanche Ron is a tart for a big man and should be sticking his head in areas where he has a chance of scoring
Players
Guzan - decision making poor. Distribution poor. Not his best game.
Hutton - always puts a shift in. Gill dropping so deep got in his way, and if he bombed on he was more often than not caught out when someone lost possession
Richardson - had a good first half and worked hard. Unlucky to get injured.
Sissoko - the Villa left back disease strikes again: good start to the season, the a drop in focus/ confidence. Offers zero attacking threat
Vlaar - both goals came from his mistakes. A captain should be installing belief into his players, but Ron displays little of those qualities. Lacks character.
Clark - has got stronger and stronger as the season has progressed. Making up for his lack of pace with good reading and positional play. Looks like he wants it and will be hurting tonight.
Delph - why oh why does he keep going on his right food, thus halting any impetus in an attack? He's clearly been told to be more direct, as he placed balls into the box, rather than working the ball back to the keeper from good positions, as in previous weeks
Sanchez - does he not know "man on", or could it be that there was no-one close enough to him for most of the game? Does some good things and then tries to be too accurate at other times.
Gill - why drop so deep? Thoroughly disappointing today. Not sure if it was injury niggles or the first sign in a loss of confidence
Sinclair - excellent game. Scored, worked his bollocks off and looked to link up at most opportunities.
Agbonlahor - hmmm. The coaches need to get a grip of him and tell him to start working the channels. Absolute waste of a shirt at the moment. Shows little sign of wanting to put it right. Ironic how Keane had problems with him and Delph. They clearly like it on their terms.
Benteke - is he lacking confidence, or desire? Didn't win much in the way of headers today. Bearing in mind he wasn't up against Shallcross or Huth. Too easily marshalled. To be fair, it doesn't help when Agbonlahor doesn't offer any threat, so defenders can double up on CB
Wiemann - dear me, that was terrible. He clearly isn't a winger.
I honestly think we will stay up. For that to happen, we need luck, perspiration and application (probably in that order).
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Abject, especially the second half.
It's got to the stage now where such bad times call for desperate measures. I'm going back to starting the pre-match, match and post-match threads, starting with Newcastle.
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I'm going to get shot down in flames for this but I think its more than possible Benteke won't score for us again, stay up or go down, he'll be gone.
He looks unenthused, totally lacking in confidence and devoid of energy. It's shocking a player who looked on the verge of being a Worldy, suddenly looks fucking awful. He's not getting the service, and the standard of player around him isn't always brilliant but he's not working hard enough for me.
We'll be lucky to get 10 mill for him. A player who on top form could have fetched us around 25 million.
He's a 1 season wonder.
I don't think he's like a Roque Santa Cruz by any stretch. Benteke can do some astonishing things, and has done this season on all too few occasions. I think there's a bit too much sulking going on to his end, and it undoubtedly must be frustrated, but his career is in danger of going the way of John Carew. That may be enough for Benteke's ambitions, but really he should be pushing to be playing in the Champions League every season.
He just needs to pull his bloody finger out. I honestly think he's sighing his way to the summer where he'll probably fancy a more solidly footed (if not CL) club to come in for him. Does it bother him if he fetches 10 million for us, or 20 million? No.
If he had Weimann's determination and work-rate, he'd be banging them in right now.
But Benteke is in danger of being an astonishing waste of talent.
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Sherwood guaranteed in his press conference that every player would give 100%. So what happened? They looked as half arsed as ever.
Benteke looks liked he'd rather be somewhere else.
Weimann - I admit I was wrong about him when I called him a Championship player; he's League 1 at best.
Gabby- just fuck off. If you can't be arsed to even look like you give a shit whilst we are deep in the mire, then just do one.
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Best prepare for life in the Championship.
Yup.'fraid so definitely.
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You can say they're theoretical, and have limited applicability, but you never actually give me much by way of examples. It's hard to argue with this: every tactic you might like is practical, and everything else is highfalutin hypotheses from the ivory tower. This is clearly an unfair way to debate.
Perhaps but if you had suggested an alternative line up, formation and tactical approach then a fairer debate could be had; if you did then I missed it and apologise. But today it just seemed as though all I heard was 'he got the tactics wrong'. Speaking personally, I had no problem with the side or formation apart from starting with Gabby. I think he was right to pick what he thought would be his best side and, as we know from what outsiders think of the Villa, he probably thought Gabby was still a good player. I think he had to pick Vlaar for the same reason. Turns out they were both desperately poor calls but I can't really blame him; unlike Lambert, I'll be surprised if he makes the same mistake next week (although Vlaar is presumably be suspended anyway). Similarly he saw Sinclair do well in the Cup and seeing the size of Benteke I can't argue with him wanting his wide men to sling as many balls into the box as they can. Yes Stoke are all brick shithouses but so is Benteke and if you've got two up front there ought to be a man there for the knockdowns. So maybe he made some wrong decisions today but blimey he's had seven days to try to weigh up the players and, regardless of the tactics, most of them - especially those he is entitled to regard as his senior pros - let him down badly.
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Everybody wants us to roll over, give in without a fight...
Tell the players that, because today we were there for the taking. No fucking fight from any of them.
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Not sure you can say that about Clark or Hutton
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It will be interesting to hear Sherwood's media comments. I feel numb. So much for the new manager bounce. We are a soft touch and the players need to grow some balls and stand up and be counted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31566724
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After 10 mins our little crowd looked at each other and grimaced at the centre backs booting the ball up to an isolated Benteke, it didnt really get any better.
Its rare Ive walked away from the game quite so down, we made the change and at least expected a buzz from the players to impress the manager, as it was, same shit, different day.
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I really thought I would see some vigour and a buzz from us today. A keenness to impress the new manager and show that the shackles Lambert had us on had been strewn away.
Its really worrying that the malaise has set in so deep. If anything, its shown Sherwood how big a job hes got to turn this mob around.
Hopefully a week of training with Sherwood and K-Mac and the other new coaches can get some good work done.
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After 10 mins our little crowd looked at each other and grimaced at the centre backs booting the ball up to an isolated Benteke, it didnt really get any better.
Its rare Ive walked away from the game quite so down, we made the change and at least expected a buzz from the players to impress the manager, as it was, same shit, different day.
I read somewhere that Lambert was popular with the players and they were sad to see him go. It must have been easy turning up every week and being told you've been excellent regardless.
I just get the feeling the players don't really care, they'll be alright Jack regardless. No passion, no fight. No matter how many rockets Sherwood puts up them at the end of the day I just don't think they care enough.
Worrying.
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I've said this all along, regardless of who the manager is, this is a really poor set of players. We are absolutely where we deserve to be. They go hiding, are too cowardly, and are badly lacking in intelligence. Not one of them can grab the game by the scruff of the neck. They each and every one of them expect someone else to take responsibility. They shirk. Neat, tidy, ineffective.
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Gabby was abysmal, when the hoofs went toward Benteke he didnt run anywhere near where the knock downs could have gone.
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Just like the soul 2 soul record
" back to life back to reality"
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I've said this all along, regardless of who the manager is, this is a really poor set of players. We are absolutely where we deserve to be. They go hiding, are too cowardly, and are badly lacking in intelligence. Not one of them can grab the game by the scruff of the neck. They each and every one of them expect someone else to take responsibility. They shirk. Neat, tidy, ineffective.
I respectfully disagree, I think the players are fine given the right management, I hope Sherwood, given time, will prove this.
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I've said this all along, regardless of who the manager is, this is a really poor set of players. We are absolutely where we deserve to be. They go hiding, are too cowardly, and are badly lacking in intelligence. Not one of them can grab the game by the scruff of the neck. They each and every one of them expect someone else to take responsibility. They shirk. Neat, tidy, ineffective.
I agree - the biggest coward being Gabby - who hides all game long . Pathetic.
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Abject, especially the second half.
It's got to the stage now where such bad times call for desperate measures. I'm going back to starting the pre-match, match and post-match threads, starting with Newcastle.
I agree about the desperate measures bit.
Gabby/Weimann can stay at home on match days. It's not their fault, as they are not wide strikers. Villa have to win some games. It's Do or Die now. My next team would be
Guzan
Hutton Okore Clark N'Zogbia
Westwood Delph
Bacuna Gil Sinclair
Benteke
Subs. Given, Sanchez, Cissokho, Cole, Grealish, Kozak and recall Robinson
Villa have to attack. Bring back the Orange Dot !
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Lambert broke it.
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It might be resurrected on the Newcastle pre-match thread.
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I've changed my mind about the quality of the squad, i now believe that we have been deluding ourselves
and that the squad is pretty poor. Too many players having bad game after bad game but are still played because we have no one else to put in. Defensively we are okay but thats the end of it, midfield is lightweight and the forward line is diabolical.
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Fucking disgraceful.Lerner left it far to late to make the change.Who ever came in would'nt have had a chance with that bunch of over paid poor excuse of footballers.Delph was garbage,Gabby pathetic,Vllar shit and the rest not fucking good enough.Went to the game today full of hope.Left knowing we are relegation certainties.Quiet frankly we don't desrve to stay up 13 points in the last 23 games says it all.Taxi for Aston Villa
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Lambert broke it.
We have to fight for our Premiership lives now. Please start the Pre/Match/Post match threads.
Bring on the Orange Dot !
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Yes, these players don't deserve to stay up, but quite a few will do so no doubt, whilst we as the fans, less deservingly get relegated.
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I went to my first match today since beating Hull in August. I wish I hadn't bothered. And being unable to see or complete a pass is another thing plaguing every player.
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Did Lambert do the half time team talk?
If he persists with 442 he has to drop gabby. Weimann isn't great but he makes better runs off Benteke. I really can't stand Gabby now, which is unfortunate. He's stagnated, like the club, for a good 4 years now. I can't stand the 'he scores important goals' stuff. The reason why they stand out is because he doesn't fucking score enough.
I categorically wouldn't go 442 though.
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Sherwood guaranteed in his press conference that every player would give 100%. So what happened? They looked as half arsed as ever.
Benteke looks liked he'd rather be somewhere else.
Weimann - I admit I was wrong about him when I called him a Championship player; he's League 1 at best.
Gabby- just fuck off. If you can't be arsed to even look like you give a shit whilst we are deep in the mire, then just do one.
Spot on. Every word, spot on.
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The first half was okay but once the equaliser went in we seemed to be resigned to our fate. A point would have at least been something to build on but Vlaar had other ideas. Only plus points are Sinclair who looks positive, Hutton and Clark. We need five wins and I can't see where one is going to come from. Get ready for the championship unless there's a spectacular turnaround.
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I'm going to get shot down in flames for this but I think its more than possible Benteke won't score for us again, stay up or go down, he'll be gone.
He looks unenthused, totally lacking in confidence and devoid of energy. It's shocking a player who looked on the verge of being a Worldy, suddenly looks fucking awful. He's not getting the service, and the standard of player around him isn't always brilliant but he's not working hard enough for me.
We'll be lucky to get 10 mill for him. A player who on top form could have fetched us around 25 million.
He's a 1 season wonder.
That's my view as well, although I hope he proves me wrong over the next few weeks
At the moment, unless the ball is passes right to his feet, he makes little effort to get to it. As for his ability in the air, it's completely disappeared. I first thought this when Liverpool's Lucus out jumped and out muscled Benteke on several occasions. Now he's being outplayed my Stoke's reserve defenders.
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This new coach Robson,somebody has just told me, spent most of the match scribbling on a notepad. I suppose he thinks it makes him look intelligent. It does not. Scribbling 'hoof it towards Benteke and see what happens' is childish.
Benteke, I am afraid, is another Tony Yeoboah.
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I've changed my mind about the quality of the squad, i now believe that we have been deluding ourselves
and that the squad is pretty poor. Too many players having bad game after bad game but are still played because we have no one else to put in. Defensively we are okay but thats the end of it, midfield is lightweight and the forward line is diabolical.
I am with you. Up till today I had been telling myself "No way should this squad be in a scrap, Lambert just wasn't getting the best out of them." After todays game I am thinking "maybe we got what we paid for and they really are just championship players who have found their level".
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The first half was okay but once the equaliser went in we seemed to be resigned to our fate.
Spot on. The confidence just drained away. This squad is so weak mentally it's untrue. As someone posted above they're all looking for someone else to take the responsibility. It should be one of the things a manager like Sherwood can rectify but how bad the problem is and whether he'll have enough time to sort it who knows. Laerner / Fox let things go on for so long and get so bad that we've given ourselves almost no time to rescue the situation,
The four year contracts thing for Gabby and Lambert was utter lunacy.
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If Sherwood prefers 442, then either Andi or Clive should play up top alongside Tekkers (I know that Benteke is rubbish at the moment but unless Kozak makes a miracle recovery, there's no other option).
Oh, and if anyone close to the pitch sees Weimann heading out to take a corner, they should have permission to run on and rugby tackle him.
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Thought we were ok for about 30 minutes then the familiar cracks started to appear.
Lack of movement, poor on the ball, repeating the same stuff even when it isn't working (eg Hoofing it up to Benteke who hardly won anything 1st half, knocked it on to no-one 2nd half), easily muscled off the ball by bigger, more determined players, losing possession too easily, hardly ever winning the "2nd phase" balls, getting ourselves into poor positions (Sanchez and Gil in particular) and other players not being prepared to help out or having to foul an opponent having lost possession to them, too many players underperforming...Gabby and Benteke massively, Delph surprisingly over the last 5/6 games, Sanchez the last 2/3, Weimann not good enough, Cissokho lost his way, Vlaar a liability as he was at QPR.
Only Clark, Sinclair and Hutton came out with any credit for me...a team cannot carry EIGHT underperforming players. Compare most of our players with some very ordinary Stoke players who fought, scrapped and used their physicality to win the game. Even Ireland weighed in with a bit of hassling, chasing and closing defenders down and crossed the ball in for their 1st goal...Stephen fu**ing Ireland ffs!
imho Sherwood needs to make a few drastic decisions...drop Gabby and Vlaar, play Westwood and/or Sanchez as DMs, play Delph further forward, play Gil off Benteke, let Sinclair play either wing...and make sure Grealish and Robinson are on the bench to help change attacking options.
Oh yeah, and teach them how to take a throw in, a free kick and a corner! Other teams use these things to keep possession/create danger in the opposition goalmouth.
We don't.
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I was gutted I couldn't go today and now reading this I'm glad I didn't. Was it Lambert's player not playing for someone else or are they Just not good enough?
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If you were Tim Sherwood tonight hopefully back home in the warm. You would be thinking what on gods earth can I do to turn things around.
It must have been a real eye opener for him today when he found he didn't have the answers.
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Can I call for some calm. Sherwood isn't going to turn things round in 5 days. This will take a few weeks for him to even make a mark after the last year's of decline.
We may well go down but that's because of what happened pre Sherwood.
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Only my second game of the season. I have been in exile whilst TSM2 has systematically destroyed the club with his negative dross. (It extends to youth/junior level too)
Compared with my previous visit on New Year's day (C. Palace) we still have a chance, although it will go down to the last day v Burnley.
I can understand why Richardson was selected over Sissoko. He is shocking and was caught cold for the cross on the equaliser.
Gabby's not the brightest is he? Some say his asset (if he still has one) is to run at defenders. I still maintain when the ball is played to him he can turn them and either get the foul or go. His pace is virtually gone.
I would have put Gabby wide and Andi Central and even given Sinclair a bash on the right to mix it up.
We played 4-4-1-1 v 4-2-3-1. I though we did okay considering our position. We didn't deserve to lose, with 89 mins 1-1 v a very tough ugly Stoke team not a bad start considering 2 weeks ago we would be expecting a sleepy 0-0 at best. You cannot legislate for a blunder of monumental proportions which cost us a vital point.
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I've said this all along, regardless of who the manager is, this is a really poor set of players. We are absolutely where we deserve to be. They go hiding, are too cowardly, and are badly lacking in intelligence. Not one of them can grab the game by the scruff of the neck. They each and every one of them expect someone else to take responsibility. They shirk. Neat, tidy, ineffective.
Completely agree. They didn't put a shift in today at all, looked lackadaisical and un-motivated. We're in a scrap to stay in the league and playing a mid table team with no ambitions of Europe and no threat of relegation were ideal for a new manager dead-cat bounce. They showed nothing.
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Went to the game earlier and left gutted. I personally thought the formation was OK and the simple tactic of getting the ball up to Benteke was understandable given the short time he has had to work with the players. Unfortunately, we were up against the team in the league best equipped to deal with that tactic, so we didn't really make much of an impact. We got in some decent positions, but our quality in the final third was desperately poor. To be honest, the quality of our set pieces today would have been disappointing for most Sunday league sides.
As for Sherwood, I hope he can build on the way we played today. I don't think it was a bad start and had Vlaar not made two awful errors at the end we would have got a point. He made changes throughout the game (would have brought Bacuna on instead of Weimann), but really doesn't have too much to work with. As I said, I think the formation could work, but he's got to realise:
- Agbonlahor and Weimann are impact subs at best
- When Sanchez goes off the boil in a game he needs to be taken off
- Gil is a bit of liability when he comes into deeper positions. He needs to stay in the final third
- If we are going to continue with the formation then Bacuna or maybe even Grealish need to come in on the right - Edit or even try and get something out of N'Zogbia
- Guzan's kicking off the floor is a problem if we are trying to hit Benteke. His kicks are too short and too flighted
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Didn't like all the hype about this game, most of the regular pundits tipping us to win. Even on our own poll on the pre match thread only 4% were tipping an away win, and 80 odd per cent going for a Villa win, despite the fact that we had only won 2 out of our last 21 games. Thought something had to gone wrong.
Considering such a positive build up and importance of the match, the commitment and quality was dreadful. Only positives were the performances of Sinclair and Clark. Even though his form has dipped recently still believe Gil will prove a major asset to the club.
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I was convinced after the goal that we would walk it. Stoke had one shot prior to the goal. fell apart again. Not good still can't believe we will go down. Looks like the players think they will. Out muscled and without Delph or benteke playing 50% we have little threat. Utterly gutted
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My observations (in no particular order )
We were the equivalent of leaving a bag of chocolate raisins on a radiator. Started off alright, then lost all shape, before melting into a complete unusable wreck
Formation:
The two in the middle were badly outfought and outnumbered today. They offered practically no out all from defence, resulting in us going too direct, most of the time.
Gill was far too deep, dropping deeper to pick he ball up and getting himself into trouble too often. Any mistakes in those areas will result in him losing his confidence instantly. It seemed to affect Hutton's play too, as the link up play was pedestrian and poor.
Style of play:
Sherwood talked of variation. If Benteke was no available, another player would have to be found. Far too often we played it direct to Benteke, who didn't win very much (I was impressed with the German they had a centre half). Where was Agbonlahor, and why was he not running the channels?
Only Sinclair showed any desire, putting a good shift chasing them in possession, and had some decent touches.
Why was Gill not pushed further up the pitch where he can play those deft passes, or even get in a good position to shoot?
It was pleasing that our centre halves (in particular Clark), stopped playing those stupid 5 yard passes to the full back, when the full back clearly has no when to go.
Set pieces again were diabolical. Martin Laursen used to make an average ball a goal scoring opportunity. Blamanche Ron is a tart for a big man and should be sticking his head in areas where he has a chance of scoring
Players
Guzan - decision making poor. Distribution poor. Not his best game.
Hutton - always puts a shift in. Gill dropping so deep got in his way, and if he bombed on he was more often than not caught out when someone lost possession
Richardson - had a good first half and worked hard. Unlucky to get injured.
Sissoko - the Villa left back disease strikes again: good start to the season, the a drop in focus/ confidence. Offers zero attacking threat
Vlaar - both goals came from his mistakes. A captain should be installing belief into his players, but Ron displays little of those qualities. Lacks character.
Clark - has got stronger and stronger as the season has progressed. Making up for his lack of pace with good reading and positional play. Looks like he wants it and will be hurting tonight.
Delph - why oh why does he keep going on his right food, thus halting any impetus in an attack? He's clearly been told to be more direct, as he placed balls into the box, rather than working the ball back to the keeper from good positions, as in previous weeks
Sanchez - does he not know "man on", or could it be that there was no-one close enough to him for most of the game? Does some good things and then tries to be too accurate at other times.
Gill - why drop so deep? Thoroughly disappointing today. Not sure if it was injury niggles or the first sign in a loss of confidence
Sinclair - excellent game. Scored, worked his bollocks off and looked to link up at most opportunities.
Agbonlahor - hmmm. The coaches need to get a grip of him and tell him to start working the channels. Absolute waste of a shirt at the moment. Shows little sign of wanting to put it right. Ironic how Keane had problems with him and Delph. They clearly like it on their terms.
Benteke - is he lacking confidence, or desire? Didn't win much in the way of headers today. Bearing in mind he wasn't up against Shallcross or Huth. Too easily marshalled. To be fair, it doesn't help when Agbonlahor doesn't offer any threat, so defenders can double up on CB
Wiemann - dear me, that was terrible. He clearly isn't a winger.
I honestly think we will stay up. For that to happen, we need luck, perspiration and application (probably in that order).
For someone who didn't watch the game that was very useful, thanks.
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I remember my head jolting when one of the commentators said "..Agbonlahor....". I'd forgotten he was playing.
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Can I call for some calm. Sherwood isn't going to turn things round in 5 days. This will take a few weeks for him to even make a mark after the last year's of decline.
We may well go down but that's because of what happened pre Sherwood.
That is precisely the alarming bit; we should have had a new manager putting his stamp on the place and sussing out how to turn things around a month ago, at least. As it is we lie 19th in the table, look as bad as ever and there's 12 games left to save ourselves. I think relegation might just happen this time.
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The denial of defeat has sunk in now and i feel depressed and ashamed. Lerner and these players deserve everything they get - wages aside. Keep dicing with the drop and the trapdoor gets you eventually.
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Can I call for some calm. Sherwood isn't going to turn things round in 5 days. This will take a few weeks for him to even make a mark after the last year's of decline.
We may well go down but that's because of what happened pre Sherwood.
That is precisely the alarming bit; we should have had a new manager putting his stamp on the place and sussing out how to turn things around a month ago, at least. As it is we lie 19th in the table, look as bad as ever and there's 12 games left to save ourselves. I think relegation might just happen this time.
All in hindsight of course, but that would have also allowed him to bring in any players he felt necessary. As it is, he's got to work with what he has got.
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A long and disappointing day. Having thought about it through four hours of traffic, I think today we lost because of the Lambert legacy. The inability to stay calm and play intelligently. Things happen, like the equalizer but instead of simply pressing on and staying on the front foot we start to panic and make unforced errors. The longer the game goes on the more error prone we become and defeat becomes a self fulfilling expectation. We needed to keep the ball on the ground against Stoke but constantly indulged in looping aimless headers and long clearances. Now I agree with Hilts that long ball may be our only option with so little time to eradicate player faults, but it has to be long ball played properly and with skill but it degenerates into aerial mayhem. I also agree with Robbo when he says he thinks we have been guilty of self deception in the belief that we have a good squad. However you cut it the fact remains that a big element of our plight is due to lack of player quality. The quality many of them fail to show has been touched on a number of times in this thread. It is lack of intelligence. Too many stupid things happen which should not happen, today's winning penalty being a perfect example. I also agree with all the posters who have said the core of our current disastrous run is not getting rid of Lambert much sooner. We know that the new four year contract is to blame for that. With a heavy heart I have to say that based on today's game I think it will be too much for Tim Sherwood to keep us in the Premiership in the time he has available.
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The four year contracts thing for Gabby and Lambert was utter lunacy.
Incredibly stupid. I recall Fox mentioning the Lambert negotiations were in train when he arrived. At the time I wondered whether he was disowning the decision slightly.
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Did vlaar lose his man for the equaliser? Is it a 1 or 3 match ban? Horrendous performance for an experienced captain. Get okore back.
The stokies were acting like complete twats when they were let out. A horrible game for my littleuns' first
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Gutted by this result. Sounds like nothings changed with some of the senior players. I'm glad Vlaar is now suspended as he hasn't looked interested. Gabby should be dropped as well.
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Went to the game earlier and left gutted. I personally thought the formation was OK and the simple tactic of getting the ball up to Benteke was understandable given the short time he has had to work with the players. Unfortunately, we were up against the team in the league best equipped to deal with that tactic, so we didn't really make much of an impact. We got in some decent positions, but our quality in the final third was desperately poor. To be honest, the quality of our set pieces today would have been disappointing for most Sunday league sides.
As for Sherwood, I hope he can build on the way we played today. I don't think it was a bad start and had Vlaar not made two awful errors at the end we would have got a point. He made changes throughout the game (would have brought Bacuna on instead of Weimann), but really doesn't have too much to work with. As I said, I think the formation could work, but he's got to realise:
- Agbonlahor and Weimann are impact subs at best
- When Sanchez goes off the boil in a game he needs to be taken off
- Gil is a bit of liability when he comes into deeper positions. He needs to stay in the final third
- If we are going to continue with the formation then Bacuna or maybe even Grealish need to come in on the right - Edit or even try and get something out of N'Zogbia
- Guzan's kicking off the floor is a problem if we are trying to hit Benteke. His kicks are too short and too flighted
Agree with most of this.
It was cold as fock.
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Can't fault sherwood really at all.
The players on the other hand are largely an absolute disgrace. The very minimum should be 100% effort.
Clearly this isn't happening, with a heavy heart I've seen enough now, it's not worth the time,effort, money or emotional involvement . I've been for a long walk , fielded texts from noses and Geordies . It's fine, I've thought for a while we are gone and we are.
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Did vlaar lose his man for the equaliser? Is it a 1 or 3 match ban? Horrendous performance for an experienced captain. Get okore back.
The stokies were acting like complete twats when they were let out. A horrible game for my littleuns' first
Straight red but 1 game I think it is one game as it wasn't violent conduct.
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It was a second yellow so it'll be a one match ban.
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Did vlaar lose his man for the equaliser? Is it a 1 or 3 match ban? Horrendous performance for an experienced captain. Get okore back.
The stokies were acting like complete twats when they were let out. A horrible game for my littleuns' first
Straight red but 1 game I think it is one game as it wasn't violent conduct.
It was two bookings. He got booked only a few minutes before the penalty and the ref showed two yellows.
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Spot the mistake on the team sheet. And it's the naughty step for anyone who says it included Gabby!
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/02/21/25E8F44900000578-2963022-Villa_s_team_sheet_strangely_included_Kevin_Richardson_No_18_a_f-m-1_1424543652388.jpg)
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Did vlaar lose his man for the equaliser? Is it a 1 or 3 match ban? Horrendous performance for an experienced captain. Get okore back.
The stokies were acting like complete twats when they were let out. A horrible game for my littleuns' first
Straight red but 1 game I think it is one game as it wasn't violent conduct.
It was two bookings. He got booked only a few minutes before the penalty and the ref showed two yellows.
Yes, you're right it was. Forgot he got one earlier. I think the basic rule is correct though, that even if it was a straight red, the offense carries a one game ban as long as it wasn't violent conduct.
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A long and disappointing day. Having thought about it through four hours of traffic, I think today we lost because of the Lambert legacy. The inability to stay calm and play intelligently. Things happen, like the equalizer but instead of simply pressing on and staying on the front foot we start to panic and make unforced errors. The longer the game goes on the more error prone we become and defeat becomes a self fulfilling expectation. We needed to keep the ball on the ground against Stoke but constantly indulged in looping aimless headers and long clearances. Now I agree with Hilts that long ball may be our only option with so little time to eradicate player faults, but it has to be long ball played properly and with skill but it degenerates into aerial mayhem. I also agree with Robbo when he says he thinks we have been guilty of self deception in the belief that we have a good squad. However you cut it the fact remains that a big element of our plight is due to lack of player quality. The quality many of them fail to show has been touched on a number of times in this thread. It is lack of intelligence. Too many stupid things happen which should not happen, today's winning penalty being a perfect example. I also agree with all the posters who have said the core of our current disastrous run is not getting rid of Lambert much sooner. We know that the new four year contract is to blame for that. With a heavy heart I have to say that based on today's game I think it will be too much for Tim Sherwood to keep us in the Premiership in the time he has available.
I think it is the fact that he can't bring anyone in that could prove decisive.
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Can't fault sherwood really at all.
Hang on, I thought the reason why he was a good option was the he could provide an instant lift and raise their games with his praise and positivity?
If he's not been brought in to do that, what is he here for? Based on today (and his whole managerial career), it's not his incisive tactical mind.
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Spot the mistake on the team sheet. And it's the naughty step for anyone who says it included Gabby!
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/02/21/25E8F44900000578-2963022-Villa_s_team_sheet_strangely_included_Kevin_Richardson_No_18_a_f-m-1_1424543652388.jpg)
We could have done with Rico in the middle today. Along with Parker and Houghton.
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Can't fault sherwood really at all.
Hang on, I thought the reason why he was a good option was the he could provide an instant lift and raise their games with his praise and positivity?
If he's not been brought in to do that, what is he here for? Based on today (and his whole managerial career), it's not his incisive tactical mind.
I think there is something poisonous within this group of players.
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A snake? A triffid? A spider?
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Horrendous day and I'm off to bed before Motd comes on. Night, see you all in the championship with munish and claridge.
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Can't fault sherwood really at all.
Hang on, I thought the reason why he was a good option was the he could provide an instant lift and raise their games with his praise and positivity?
If he's not been brought in to do that, what is he here for? Based on today (and his whole managerial career), it's not his incisive tactical mind.
So you've judged him already after one week at the club and one game? And the games he lost in the PL like today are because he doesn't have an incisive tactical mind, so how about those that he won? Luck I assume?
I get that you don't like him, and he's a bad hire, but you're not showing much balance there are you in your assessment?
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Can't fault sherwood really at all.
Hang on, I thought the reason why he was a good option was the he could provide an instant lift and raise their games with his praise and positivity?
If he's not been brought in to do that, what is he here for? Based on today (and his whole managerial career), it's not his incisive tactical mind.
Well, we were on for a point until Captain Conked-out intervened, and the first half saw more attacking intent than Lambert managed in the last dozen matches. Nothing to write home about admittedly, but at least it would have seen us out of the bottom three which would have given the place a lift.
I'm not entirely sure that Mourinho and Guardiola could do much with the current three forwards we have stinking out the place.
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Can I call for some calm. Sherwood isn't going to turn things round in 5 days. This will take a few weeks for him to even make a mark after the last year's of decline.
We may well go down but that's because of what happened pre Sherwood.
That is precisely the alarming bit; we should have had a new manager putting his stamp on the place and sussing out how to turn things around a month ago, at least. As it is we lie 19th in the table, look as bad as ever and there's 12 games left to save ourselves. I think relegation might just happen this time.
All in hindsight of course, but that would have also allowed him to bring in any players he felt necessary. As it is, he's got to work with what he has got.
I don't think I'm speaking from hindsight; Lambert should have gone last summer. Now it's too late for the new guy to make much difference, IMO. The change should have been made when there was time to make a difference, most people, on here anyway, agreed.
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It's not too late.
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Really pissed me off seeing folks applaud Vlaar off. The twat had just cost us a vital point, why applaud him for it?
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Couldn't be more depressed but I see oddschecker.com still have us as 4th most likely to go down. I'd love to believe it but am struggling to see how. Mind you I suppose we were one cock up from getting out of the bottom three today.
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Can't fault sherwood really at all.
Hang on, I thought the reason why he was a good option was the he could provide an instant lift and raise their games with his praise and positivity?
If he's not been brought in to do that, what is he here for? Based on today (and his whole managerial career), it's not his incisive tactical mind.
...and the first half saw more attacking intent than Lambert managed in the last dozen matches.
We scored (!), granted, but I didn't think we worried Stoke overmuch other than that. Plus they had injuries in defence; it wasn't even their first choice back four.
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4-4-2 ?
3-5-1 ?
5-3-1 ?
3-3-3-1 ? Bring it on.
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Can I call for some calm. Sherwood isn't going to turn things round in 5 days. This will take a few weeks for him to even make a mark after the last year's of decline.
We may well go down but that's because of what happened pre Sherwood.
That is precisely the alarming bit; we should have had a new manager putting his stamp on the place and sussing out how to turn things around a month ago, at least. As it is we lie 19th in the table, look as bad as ever and there's 12 games left to save ourselves. I think relegation might just happen this time.
All in hindsight of course, but that would have also allowed him to bring in any players he felt necessary. As it is, he's got to work with what he has got.
I don't think I'm speaking from hindsight; Lambert should have gone last summer. Now it's too late for the new guy to make much difference, IMO. The change should have been made when there was time to make a difference, most people, on here anyway, agreed.
I meant I was talking with the benefit of hindsight!! Again looking back, the poor defeats at QPR and Everton earlier in the season should have seen the end of Lambert's time at the club. The failure to win against some of the lower teams in the games that followed those two have been very costly.
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Can't fault sherwood really at all.
Hang on, I thought the reason why he was a good option was the he could provide an instant lift and raise their games with his praise and positivity?
If he's not been brought in to do that, what is he here for? Based on today (and his whole managerial career), it's not his incisive tactical mind.
...and the first half saw more attacking intent than Lambert managed in the last dozen matches.
We scored (!), granted, but I didn't think we worried Stoke overmuch other than that. Plus they had injuries in defence; it wasn't even their first choice back four.
The one centre back, who I had never heard of, had a blinder and was easily man of the match.
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Really pissed me off seeing folks applaud Vlaar off. The twat had just cost us a vital point, why applaud him for it?
Are you sure it wasn't the Stoke fans. Surely nobody could have applauded that?
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I was in the concourse when it happened but on the screens I saw him being applauded as he was walking off. No idea how many did, but some definitely did.
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Can I call for some calm. Sherwood isn't going to turn things round in 5 days. This will take a few weeks for him to even make a mark after the last year's of decline.
We may well go down but that's because of what happened pre Sherwood.
That is precisely the alarming bit; we should have had a new manager putting his stamp on the place and sussing out how to turn things around a month ago, at least. As it is we lie 19th in the table, look as bad as ever and there's 12 games left to save ourselves. I think relegation might just happen this time.
All in hindsight of course, but that would have also allowed him to bring in any players he felt necessary. As it is, he's got to work with what he has got.
I don't think I'm speaking from hindsight; Lambert should have gone last summer. Now it's too late for the new guy to make much difference, IMO. The change should have been made when there was time to make a difference, most people, on here anyway, agreed.
I meant I was talking with the benefit of hindsight!! Again looking back, the poor defeats at QPR and Everton earlier in the season should have seen the end of Lambert's time at the club. The failure to win against some of the lower teams in the games that followed those two have been very costly.
Gotcha. I'm off to bed!
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Irritating but not the end of the world.
Next match we win.
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4-4-2 ?
3-5-1 ?
5-3-1 ?
3-3-3-1 ? Bring it on.
4-5-1 for the next game with a team of (presuming all are fit):
Guzan
Hutton Okore Clark Richardson
Bacuna Sanchez Delph Sinclair
Gil
Benteke
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I was in the concourse when it happened but on the screens I saw him being applauded as he was walking off. No idea how many did, but some definitely did.
You sure it wasn't "fucking nice one Ron, you idiot you just lost us the game" ironic clapping?
Because if it was "bad luck Ron, we still love you" clapping then those people are morons.
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It was proper applause. Which is why it pissed me off.
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Can't fault sherwood really at all.
Hang on, I thought the reason why he was a good option was the he could provide an instant lift and raise their games with his praise and positivity?
If he's not been brought in to do that, what is he here for? Based on today (and his whole managerial career), it's not his incisive tactical mind.
So you've judged him already after one week at the club and one game? And the games he lost in the PL like today are because he doesn't have an incisive tactical mind, so how about those that he won? Luck I assume?
I get that you don't like him, and he's a bad hire, but you're not showing much balance there are you in your assessment?
It's no less balanced than suggesting that he wasn't at fault in any way, when we spent 80% of the match launching high balls straight at Stoke's back line.
It's not his fault that Vlaar screwed up in the last minute, but nor is it the team's fault that they had been sent out with a game plan based on Lambert's from the second Bradford match.
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I was in the concourse when it happened but on the screens I saw him being applauded as he was walking off. No idea how many did, but some definitely did.
Yeah there were a few, mostly in the Trinity Road by the tunnel. There were a few boos and a few more choice expressions of disgust aimed in his direction as well.
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It's not his fault that Vlaar screwed up in the last minute, but nor is it the team's fault that they had been sent out with a game plan based on Lambert's from the second Bradford match.
Eh? The two games were nothing like each other.
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Can't fault sherwood really at all.
Hang on, I thought the reason why he was a good option was the he could provide an instant lift and raise their games with his praise and positivity?
If he's not been brought in to do that, what is he here for? Based on today (and his whole managerial career), it's not his incisive tactical mind.
So you've judged him already after one week at the club and one game? And the games he lost in the PL like today are because he doesn't have an incisive tactical mind, so how about those that he won? Luck I assume?
I get that you don't like him, and he's a bad hire, but you're not showing much balance there are you in your assessment?
It's no less balanced than suggesting that he wasn't at fault in any way, when we spent 80% of the match launching high balls straight at Stoke's back line.
It's not his fault that Vlaar screwed up in the last minute, but nor is it the team's fault that they had been sent out with a game plan based on Lambert's from the second Bradford match.
There were many things that didn't go to plan today. I wouldn't for a second excuse Sherwood his piece of the blame for why we lost. I certainly wouldn't judge his ability as a manager based on today either. Because when he does win, it will be a combination of things that will have contributed to it including his tactics.
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Can't fault sherwood really at all.
Hang on, I thought the reason why he was a good option was the he could provide an instant lift and raise their games with his praise and positivity?
If he's not been brought in to do that, what is he here for? Based on today (and his whole managerial career), it's not his incisive tactical mind.
So you've judged him already after one week at the club and one game? And the games he lost in the PL like today are because he doesn't have an incisive tactical mind, so how about those that he won? Luck I assume?
I get that you don't like him, and he's a bad hire, but you're not showing much balance there are you in your assessment?
It's no less balanced than suggesting that he wasn't at fault in any way, when we spent 80% of the match launching high balls straight at Stoke's back line.
It's not his fault that Vlaar screwed up in the last minute, but nor is it the team's fault that they had been sent out with a game plan based on Lambert's from the second Bradford match.
They certainly didn't play as I hoped they would but I am certainly not judging the manager based on one game. We all know they need to be more direct, hopefully they can mix it up a bit like the second half against Leicester, not all possession and not all long ball. It's not going to be easy trying to introduce yet another change in style, they have been working at keeping possession under Lambert. The big worry is he has so little time to change things and get results.
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The first half was okay but once the equaliser went in we seemed to be resigned to our fate. A point would have at least been something to build on but Vlaar had other ideas. Only plus points are Sinclair who looks positive, Hutton and Clark. We need five wins and I can't see where one is going to come from. Get ready for the championship unless there's a spectacular turnaround.
Once the equaliser went in we were not resigned but fighting back.
Should have got another one.
Before that as well as after. Every idea what Vlaar was after, cheering him on. Go for it, Ron.
Awful referee.
Brill manager!
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It's not his fault that Vlaar screwed up in the last minute, but nor is it the team's fault that they had been sent out with a game plan based on Lambert's from the second Bradford match.
Eh? The two games were nothing like each other.
They both involved the main tactic of aiming for the head of our tallest player from around the halfway line for a lot of the game.
Besides, you're right - in the Bradford game, it was us that scored in the last minute ;)
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Can't fault sherwood really at all.
Hang on, I thought the reason why he was a good option was the he could provide an instant lift and raise their games with his praise and positivity?
If he's not been brought in to do that, what is he here for? Based on today (and his whole managerial career), it's not his incisive tactical mind.
So you've judged him already after one week at the club and one game? And the games he lost in the PL like today are because he doesn't have an incisive tactical mind, so how about those that he won? Luck I assume?
I get that you don't like him, and he's a bad hire, but you're not showing much balance there are you in your assessment?
It's no less balanced than suggesting that he wasn't at fault in any way, when we spent 80% of the match launching high balls straight at Stoke's back line.
It's not his fault that Vlaar screwed up in the last minute, but nor is it the team's fault that they had been sent out with a game plan based on Lambert's from the second Bradford match.
They certainly didn't play as I hoped they would but I am certainly not judging the manager based on one game. We all know they need to be more direct, hopefully they can mix it up a bit like the second half against Leicester, not all possession and not all long ball. It's not going to be easy trying to introduce yet another change in style, they have been working at keeping possession under Lambert. The big worry is he has so little time to change things and get results.
I'm not saying that he's not been dealt a pretty shitty hand, and nor do I think we are worse off than had we stuck with Lambert.
But we hired him because we thought (and presumably he did as well) that he would get us out of this situation. Apparently belief and motivation are his biggest attributes. Let's hope that the next few weeks give the players more belief and motivation than it seems like the last week evidently has.
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Only saw the highlights but Ron Vlaar's efforts were truly of the car crash variety. Some captain
A point today and its a relatively solid start for Sherwood but that ending has removed any optimism out of Lambert leaving
First goal was brutal too, Vlaar barely got off the ground but Cissokho's efforts were horrific too giving Walters easy possession. Nice cross from our former POTY...
Good movement from Sinclair for his goal. Delph for all the criticism of his performance did supply the three chances I saw.
Burnley got a great result today though refereeing decisions certainly went in their favour. Joey Barton edged out Vlaar as worst captain of the week with his efforts. Sunderland are getting dragged into it too, like us they cant score.
Not sure selection wise what Sherwood should do from here. Okore has been making costly mistakes of late but Vlaar's efforts today were a new low. Cissokho is absolutely awful imo, Richardson is championship standard so do we move our best central defender, Clark, out there instead? None of our midfielders seem to be playing well consistently. Guess Delph will be kept on. Cleverley will probably be given another go next week but how much confidence does anyone have in him?
It might be unpopular but Id prefer to see Gil coming on rather than starting as his fitness is miles off. Gabby, Weimann and Benteke wouldnt kick snow off a rope at the moment. Sinclair after his goal today will start on one side and hopefully will be an important player for us on the run in.
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Just saw penalty on MOTD.
We should have won this!
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I wonder if there is even any point in using Vlaar any more.
He clearly doesn't want to be here, and even if he does stay, he's made of fucking glass. I appreciate he had a good world cup, but in the almost-a-season since then, he really might as well not have been here.
I'd have gone with Okore. He's made a few mistakes himself recently, but he at least wants to be here and shows a bit of promise for the future.
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Vlaar was way off today. He'll do well to get back in, and rightly so.
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With Senderos and Baker coming back into contention as well, we're not going to miss him too much.
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Only saw the highlights but Ron Vlaar's efforts were truly of the car crash variety. Some captain
A point today and its a relatively solid start for Sherwood but that ending has removed any optimism out of Lambert leaving
First goal was brutal too, Vlaar barely got off the ground but Cissokho's efforts were horrific too giving Walters easy possession. Nice cross from our former POTY...
Good movement from Sinclair for his goal. Delph for all the criticism of his performance did supply the three chances I saw.
Burnley got a great result today though refereeing decisions certainly went in their favour. Joey Barton edged out Vlaar as worst captain of the week with his efforts. Sunderland are getting dragged into it too, like us they cant score.
Not sure selection wise what Sherwood should do from here. Okore has been making costly mistakes of late but Vlaar's efforts today were a new low. Cissokho is absolutely awful imo, Richardson is championship standard so do we move our best central defender, Clark, out there instead? None of our midfielders seem to be playing well consistently. Guess Delph will be kept on. Cleverley will probably be given another go next week but how much confidence does anyone have in him?
It might be unpopular but Id prefer to see Gil coming on rather than starting as his fitness is miles off. Gabby, Weimann and Benteke wouldnt kick snow off a rope at the moment. Sinclair after his goal today will start on one side and hopefully will be an important player for us on the run in.
Just one comment, Clark has been our best defender for some time, why should he be moved to left back?
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Just saw penalty on MOTD.
We should have won this!
Nope, we didn't deserve to win or lose.
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We certainly didn't deserve to win. On how shit we were second half we can't complain about losing.
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Vlaar mistake and not part of Villa any more?
It was a mistake.
I want Ron at the Villa. Anybody can make a mistake. He doesn't very often.
Major World Cup defender, but even better, Villa Captain!
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Vlaar mistake and not part of Villa any more?
It was a mistake.
I want Ron at the Villa. Anybody can make a mistake. He doesn't very often.
Major World Cup defender, but even better, Villa Captain!
Erm, been out for a couple of halves tonight Lou?!
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Why did it have to be Ireland to put the cross in, poor challenge by plastic Ron, I personally would have left him out, he was decent against Leicester but defensive we've been ok without him
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Why did it have to be Ireland to put the cross in, poor challenge by plastic Ron, I personally would have left him out, he was decent against Leicester but defensive we've been ok without him
Did you see Okore v Hull and then Vlaar v Leicester, you cannot blame the manager for that decision
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Only saw the highlights but Ron Vlaar's efforts were truly of the car crash variety. Some captain
A point today and its a relatively solid start for Sherwood but that ending has removed any optimism out of Lambert leaving
First goal was brutal too, Vlaar barely got off the ground but Cissokho's efforts were horrific too giving Walters easy possession. Nice cross from our former POTY...
Good movement from Sinclair for his goal. Delph for all the criticism of his performance did supply the three chances I saw.
Burnley got a great result today though refereeing decisions certainly went in their favour. Joey Barton edged out Vlaar as worst captain of the week with his efforts. Sunderland are getting dragged into it too, like us they cant score.
Not sure selection wise what Sherwood should do from here. Okore has been making costly mistakes of late but Vlaar's efforts today were a new low. Cissokho is absolutely awful imo, Richardson is championship standard so do we move our best central defender, Clark, out there instead? None of our midfielders seem to be playing well consistently. Guess Delph will be kept on. Cleverley will probably be given another go next week but how much confidence does anyone have in him?
It might be unpopular but Id prefer to see Gil coming on rather than starting as his fitness is miles off. Gabby, Weimann and Benteke wouldnt kick snow off a rope at the moment. Sinclair after his goal today will start on one side and hopefully will be an important player for us on the run in.
Just one comment, Clark has been our best defender for some time, why should he be moved to left back?
I wouldnt want to move him but we have a gaping hole at left back that needs to be filled with a reasonably competent footballer of which Cissokho isnt.
Vlaar no doubt has his mind on his next club but surely wouldnt be as bad again. Hutton, Okore, Vlaar, Clark should make us harder to beat anyway.
Agreed on Clark being our best defender.
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It's ok going more direct, but there needs to be some structure to it than just lumping it forward. The quality of our crossing, free kicks & corners is shocking. If we get the quality right into the box we'll get goals.
The problem with playing left footed players on the right & righted footed on the left is that the quality of the crosses is generally shite.
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Why did it have to be Ireland to put the cross in, poor challenge by plastic Ron, I personally would have left him out, he was decent against Leicester but defensive we've been ok without him
Sinclair failed to track Ireland who took the throw in, Cissokho was soft as sh*t letting Walters have easy possession and Vlaar didnt attack the ball or get tight to Diouf. A dreadful goal to concede
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The thought of Clark charging up the wing to put in crosses fills me with same dread as when Carlos and Ollie were doing it.
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Forgot to mention earlier - comic moment in all the gloom when the ref went down injured - 'You're not fit to referee'
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Weimann alongside Benteke worked really well at the end of the 2012-13 season - Weimann set up Benteke with lovely passes a few times. I think that's our best striker combination of what is available. Hopefully Richardson can play next week, because it doesn't sound like Cissokho has the confidence required. If Senderos is fit, then he should come straight in for Vlaar. His desire and energy were really important in first games of the season, and he's been sorely missed.
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Forgot to mention earlier - comic moment in all the gloom when the ref went down injured - 'You're not fit to referee'
What I was thinking of
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The thought of Clark charging up the wing to put in crosses fills me with same dread as when Carlos and Ollie were doing it.
He started Richardson today as the best of the options providing width and attacking intent from that position. Not a great option either, but better than Cissokho and Clark in that position. If we want to play with attacking full backs then neither side offers much at all. I'd rather we kept defenders to defending and found other players more suited to attacking and crossing to provide that.
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Just saw 'highlights' on Motd. Shocker from Vlaar - Moses had lost possession until Ron played him back in with poor control. He should've just booted it clear.
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Vlaar mistake and not part of Villa any more?
It was a mistake.
I want Ron at the Villa. Anybody can make a mistake. He doesn't very often.
Major World Cup defender, but even better, Villa Captain!
Erm, been out for a couple of halves tonight Lou?!
Yup, thought this one was a winner. What do I know, eh?
Still, there's always the next 12 cup finals. Come on, Tim.
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Vlaar mistake and not part of Villa any more?
It was a mistake.
I want Ron at the Villa. Anybody can make a mistake. He doesn't very often.
Major World Cup defender, but even better, Villa Captain!
Erm, been out for a couple of halves tonight Lou?!
So Risso.
Read it again ?
Never made a #mistake ?
#ever ?
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The thought of Clark charging up the wing to put in crosses fills me with same dread as when Carlos and Ollie were doing it.
He started Richardson today as the best of the options providing width and attacking intent from that position. Not a great option either, but better than Cissokho and Clark in that position. If we want to play with attacking full backs then neither side offers much at all. I'd rather we kept defenders to defending and found other players more suited to attacking and crossing to provide that.
To be fair, Richardson and Sinclair linked up quite well down the left before he went off.
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Bad day at the office, we were hoping for this to be the turn around but realistically, Sherwood hasn't had long enough to un-coach the lack of confidence and fear out of these players. He only got his assistant in the other day. It would have been lovely to win today or even get a point and the fact that we lost is as much down to ourselves as Stoke in the end. We'll have better days from here. Lets not write ourselves off.
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I have supported my club since 1970. I have seen some times that I cannot describe, Hghbury and Rotterdam amongst them. I started watching in the old third division and loved the passion from my first visit as a young lad. We love our club, some of you have not seen such good times or indeed the bad times, the thing we have in common is we love our club. Lets be honest, Vlaar lost us that game, but was it just his fault? How many of these players have any feeling for Aston Villa? We can say Lambert is a twat, but he is one of a list and sometimes the finger has to point to the players surely. I dont expect us to be challenging at the top, but that group of players should be doing a lot lot better than they are at the moment IMO
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4 MINUTES, 4 FUCKING MINUTES, FOUR!!
How on earth was there just 4 minutes of added time given the physios were on at least 5 times in the second half, not to mention how long the ref was down himself! I'm not even taking into account stokes time wasting, which started after 20 minutes.
Having just seen the ref's performance in the Chelsea game the quality of officiating in the PL is pathetic and detrimental to the game.
I'm sorry but Rugby Union have got it right, the egg chasing knobbers.
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Smoke, to be fair that wasnt the refs fault, it was just real poor play and we should have been the team wanting more minutes
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I'm by no means laying the blame for our display on the refs.
just more a comment on how poor the refs are.
I'd be surprised if the ball was actually in play for more than 60 minutes of the 90 sorry 94 minutes "played" today.
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I'm by no means laying the blame for our display on the refs.
just more a comment on how poor the refs are.
I'd be surprised if the ball was actually in play for more than 60 minutes of the 90 sorry 94 minutes "played" today.
As in any game, maybe realise we lost cos of awful defending
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Thanks for telling me what to realise, Mike Riley.
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Well the new invigorated Aston Villa just didn't turn up at all. I appreciate that we are shit, have a group of players with low confidence and have been led a Manager that make TSM look like a tactical genius, but the performance of Tekkers, Gabby, Delph, Vlaar (our supposedly better players) makes me feel that we're cooked.
I'm not blaming Sherwood, he's probably wondering what a stinking pile of shit he's just inherited, but he's going to need a lot more of his famed 'motivational skills' if we're going to have any chance of staying up.
Great job Lerner. Leave it so late that all the new guy is working with is limited number of "cup finals" to save us and he can't bring anyone in. You deserve to lose a fortune you prick.
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The last 2 games have seen defenders fucking around at the death and giving the ball away to concede a goal. There was a stat a while back that in the last 15 minutes of games, we had scored 0 and conceded 11. That figure is at least 13 now. I may have blacked out for a few more.
The moment which summed up the match for me was when we had a corner and Concrete Ron was grabbed by the collar and swung around like a rag doll by one of their goons. My brother turned to me and said "He's not Martin Laursen, that's for sure".
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Let's hope that our new Asst Manager and coaches get to work on this bunch tomorrow morning and every day for the next couple of weeks. They bloody need to.
I'm still hoping we can get some direction and shape about us but confidence is just not there in any way, shape or form.
It's embarrassing.
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Thanks for telling me what to realise, Mike Riley.
I'm by no means laying the blame for our display on the refs.
just more a comment on how poor the refs are.
I'd be surprised if the ball was actually in play for more than 60 minutes of the 90 sorry 94 minutes "played" today.
As in any game, maybe realise we lost cos of awful defending
Thanks for telling me what to realise, Mike Riley.
Lets agree it was Mike Rileys fault instead of the Dutvh centre half who captains our beloved club
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Dead ball delivery might be worst I have ever seen at this level.
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When they get to BH tomorrow, I they are still stinging from the first proper bollocking they have had for four seasons. Then, if there is only one thing there is time to teach them to do before the end of the season, they must, repeat must, cross the ball better. It is absolutely elementary stuff but week after week, game after game the balls from wide, including corners and free kicks are consistently terrible. They are either put in from too deep, spooned in the air or scuffed in randomly and waist high (yes Weimann I am looking at you).
As someone has already said if good crosses are put into the box the goals will come.
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I did wonder at the side that Sherwood put out yesterday and how much of it was a bow to, "See, I play attacking football". In a way he's become a victim of his own mantra. After talking all week about being positive he had to put out more attacking players rather than the same players but with more attacking intent. The problem with the team he picked is that it was slightly disjointed and rather than build on a winning performance chopped and changed too much. If we won then the team would have either clicked brilliantly or we would have scraped by but with question marks over the system. Sherwood has now created a situation where rather than keep a winning team together, and a settled team going into the last 12 games, he is now going to be chopping and changing, sending off aside, until he settles on hid favoured 11. Given the amount of time Sherwood has I thought yesterday the wrong team to send out. it showed a naivety that worried me.
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I didn't take anything of the game, but on the formation my basic impression of sherwood is that he likes a fairly standard 442
Ive never been a fan of that. But there is a chance it could be what we need. There's obviously a chance it won't work at all for all the reasons that most managers don't play like that nowadays
On gut instinct I think we're heading down. Not done yet though. There are some other pretty poor sides down there
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I fully agree Peter. I could not believe the amount of changes he made to the winning Leicester game side, especially the dropping of Weimann for Gabby. He had a winning platform but he tinkered and must now tinker again but there is no time for chopping and changing.
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Did vlaar lose his man for the equaliser? Is it a 1 or 3 match ban? Horrendous performance for an experienced captain. Get okore back.
The stokies were acting like complete twats when they were let out. A horrible game for my littleuns' first
Clark as usual was out of position so Vlaar had moved forward to cover that Hutton was too slow in realising and picking up the attacker. Vlaar failed to cut out the cross and that was that. He is out for one as its non violent red based on two yellows.
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I did wonder at the side that Sherwood put out yesterday and how much of it was a bow to, "See, I play attacking football". In a way he's become a victim of his own mantra. After talking all week about being positive he had to put out more attacking players rather than the same players but with more attacking intent.
Absolutely.
It's like that time that McLeish put out a team with Heskey, Gabby, N'Zogbia and Bent and claimed that he must be playing attacking football because of the number of random attacking players that he had thrown in the side.
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Was it a random set of players?
Wasn't it just a fairly logical selection of players if we were playing 442?
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Was it a random set of players?
Wasn't it just a fairly logical selection of players if we were playing 442?
The McLeish games struck me as a random set of players. Heskey on the right wing? Ireland on the left-wing? That sort of stuff.
It was an example that "having a load of attackers in the side" isn't the same as "playing attacking football", just like yesterday.
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It was working ok till Richardson got injured,most fans before the game would have picked that side with the exception of Weimann for Gabby.
Stoke play the way they play engrained in the culture of that horrible club.
Sherwood tried to combat that but we don't have the physicality ,that is just one of our short comings.We have plenty of others,not least a culture of accepting second best.
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Disappointing to concede a similar goal as Leicester got in he dyig embers, right before half time. Disappointingly poor performances from Delph, Vlaar, Sanchez, Gil, Benteke, Agbonlahor, Weimann. You can carry that number of players. Disappointing set piece delivery, disappointing to squander first three points, then one, when virtually no pressure was exerted by an equally disappointing away side.
I think Sherwood made a mistake with selection. If he has learnt one thing, then I hope it's that Agbonlahor is finished and has absolutely nothing to contribute. He doesn't strike me as "we go again" type.
We're not adrift, but that's another missed opportunity. A point would have seen us out and stopped the rot. What was going through Vlaar's mind, who knows. I would rather not see him play for us again, as he is nothing but a consistent disappointment and has let us down through injury and error time and again.
We have another opportunity against Newcastle, who won't be brimming with confidence either; don't get beat, stop the rot and then follow it up at home. You'll find us 16th on the right hand side of your TV by doing that.
Sinclair looks promising, Gil needs to play central. Sanchez has fluffed his chance, time to see if either Cleverley or Westwood can earn one. Delph and Benteke need to be reminded of their God given qualities.
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Dead ball delivery might be worst I have ever seen at this level.
The "live" ball delivery is fairly excruciating too.
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I think the personnel fit the formation in theory - Benteke as the target man, Gabby as the quick forward to get onto the loose balls, two natural wide players, our two best all-round midfielders (not saying much) in Delph and Sanchez. Just that we were physically and numerically outmatched in the middle, which forced us to go long, which then played straight into their hands.
Was disappointed that he didn't try and build off the things that worked against Leicester (acknowledging that Stoke are a comfortably better side). Westwood or Cleverley in there would have made it easier for us to move the ball forwards without having to punt it, would have limited the amount of time Ireland had on the ball, and probably would have swept up a few of those clearances made by Stoke which were resulting in their breaks.
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Gabby as the quick forward to get onto the loose balls
I have spotted your cunning "odd one out" sentence.
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Vlaar was less 'Jaap Stam' and more 'Jap's eye', but then again ive never got it with him in his Villa career. Three seasons in and a handful of good games for us. Nothing like the player that played at the world cup. You would think Van Gaal and Koeman would have the nouce to look at his premier league career and steer well clear. I wouldn't have him in our team with everyone fit and i hope he does fuck off in the summer.
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Gabby as the quick forward to get onto the loose balls
I have spotted your cunning "odd one out" sentence.
According to Timbo Gabby was "absolutely flying in training". Really? I hope you can't fool him all of the time.
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Gabby as the quick forward to get onto the loose balls
I have spotted your cunning "odd one out" sentence.
According to Timbo Gabby was "absolutely flying in training". Really? I hope you can't fool him all of the time.
Perhaps he meant that while the rest of the squad were training, Gabby was flying back from a lads long weekend in Marbella and something got lost in translation. Sounds more believable anyway.
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Respectfully, I don't think we were forced to play it long. I think, as I posted last night, that we reverted to TSM/TSM2 panic mode when threatened and hoofing it, Guzan included, is our comfort blanket.
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Was it a random set of players?
Wasn't it just a fairly logical selection of players if we were playing 442?
It was logical I think; it seemed clear to me that he wanted Gil/Hutton and Richardson bombing down the wings. But then we kept smacking the ball long which was mostly gobbled up by a tall and strong Stoke defence. I said it before, I know we scored, but from then on we didn't cause Stoke any problems whatsoever.
We still looked disorganised and lacking in solidity. There wasn't much of a plan today. If that was indeed Sherwood's plan to hit the ball early and long to Benteke it showed some naivety considering the opposition.
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I thought we were ok in the first half but the second half was really, really poor. Losing Richardson completely unbalanced us, perhaps a manager who knows his players better might have been able to do something about it but we just kept trying the same thing.
I thought Stoke were equally poor and that it was a game neither deserved to win but sadly Mr Vlaar had other ideas.
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It would appear from a couple of comments that during the game he didn't play in yesterday Cleverley turned into a player who should be in our 'best' eleven. I don't agree.
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maybe because he played well enough against leicester to suggest he shouldn't have been dropped in the first place?
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We certainly didn't deserve to win. On how shit we were second half we can't complain about losing.
Second half goes down as one of the worst 45's ever, including all the mind numbing shit that Lambert served up, it was truly dreadfull, topped of by one of the biggest balls ups by a defender you will ever see, as Kamara would say, Unbelievable
I have always thought at all times over the last 3/4 seasons that we would have enough to keep ourselves safe, but after witnessing that with all the positiveness of the new manager etc I can't see it happening
There is no way that team yesterday are staying up, even the little quality we had had disappeared,
I like Sherwood, I think he's said and done all the right things right up till 3.00 o'clock yesterday when we all saw the king was wearing no clothes, the king being Villa not Sherwood
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Yesterday was all our own doing with the timing of both goals. We completely switched off for the first and the second was just a stupid thing to do by someone so experienced. A point would have been fair overall and not the end of the world. I think he messed up taking off Gil, unless he was still feeling the effects of his injury. I would have taken off Gabby who did nothing again and Delph seems to have gone off the boil since signing his contract, he was awful.
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Yesterday was all our own doing with the timing of both goals. We completely switched off for the first and the second was just a stupid thing to do by someone so experienced. A point would have been fair overall and not the end of the world. I think he messed up taking off Gil, unless he was still feeling the effects of his injury. I would have taken off Gabby who did nothing again and Delph seems to have gone off the boil since signing his contract, he was awful.
I think Gil was starting to fade a bit, and quite possibly due to injury, so I understand that substitution. I agree about Gabby, though - not sure what he did to stay on.
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What is it? Lack of effort, quality, bottle or all of them?
Yesterday palace and hull busted a gut in their games, I don't feel like we've had that.
I think the last spot will be between us and qpr.
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Dead ball delivery might be worst I have ever seen at this level.
There. You made an error and it's now fixed!
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Dead aston villa might be worst I have ever seen at this level.
There. You made an error and it's now fixed!
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The players are letting us down as well. There doesn't seem to be any spirit in them. So many played so badly yesterday; the stakes are really high now, you'd think they would put a shift in for the new manager at least, not to mention try and get the team out of the relegation places but they didn't turn up.
I'm starting to think that they already believe we're down and are just going through the motions.
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What is it? Lack of effort, quality, bottle or all of them?
Yesterday palace and hull busted a gut in their games, I don't feel like we've had that.
I think the last spot will be between us and qpr.
Not sure it is. Two weeks ago Hull were dead in the water and now they have climbed out. Sunderland and Hull will still be involved along with ourselves and QPR. So it's two out of 5.
By the way it's confidence. Yesterday you could smell the lack of it out there on the pitch and terraces.
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I'm not sure Sherwood will persist with Agbonlahor, should he continue to play as he is. He's likely to be dropped or have some "injury".
Think our midfield has also shown that none of them are up for playing in a middle two, it will be interesting to see how how alters this.
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maybe because he played well enough against leicester to suggest he shouldn't have been dropped in the first place?
That's my take on it. Same goes for Weimamn and Bacuna. I'd even be tempted to play Gil in a forward role just off Benteke with Bacuna and Sinclair as the wide men.
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I haven't watched us play for quite a while. This is mainly because watching a stream eats up 10-15% of my laptop's weekly bandwidth allowance (I get my home internet via Eutelsat and Tooway : 20 gigs per month shared between all wifi devices).
I watched yesterday (for obvious new manager reasons) but the overwhelming pusillanimity of our "Lions" left me agape.
I don't think I am as gloomy as I was during the O'Fuckwit years but there will be time for that if we go down.
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What is it? Lack of effort, quality, bottle or all of them?
Yesterday palace and hull busted a gut in their games, I don't feel like we've had that.
I think the last spot will be between us and qpr.
Not sure it is. Two weeks ago Hull were dead in the water and now they have climbed out. Sunderland and Hull will still be involved along with ourselves and QPR. So it's two out of 5.
By the way it's confidence. Yesterday you could smell the lack of it out there on the pitch and terraces.
I was absolutely positive Stoke were going to win with 20mins to go. I was sure Hughes would bring on Crouchy and fully fit or not he would score. But no we found another way to lose!
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Just reading the report in the Sunday Times.
Look at the player ratings. He clearly didn't go to the match. This is indicative of the bullshit in the media.
Guzan 7
Hutton, Clark, Vlaar, Richardson and Sissoko 6
Gil 7😳
Sanchez, Delph 6
Sinclair 7
Benteke, Agbonlahor, Wiemann 5
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I thought he'd bring Crouch too, and I thought he would be the architect of our downfall.
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Very much reminds of 86/87. I can remember looking at the next game as the one where the team would turn things round and we'd go on a run but it never happened.
Sherwood needs some luck - to hit on a formation or scratch a result from somewhere to instill a modicum of belief into these players. The lack of leaders on the pitch is really telling at the moment.
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We started ok and got the goal, then seemed reasonably comfortable up until letting in the stupid equaliser. Second half we didn't show any drive or determination as if we wanted to win and I was always thinking that Stoke were going to score a winner. As the 90th minute crept up started feeling a bit relieved that we had managed to secure a point. Then wham. Undone by the most experienced player on the pitch.
What little confidence we might have gained with a draw has been taken away and TS now has to try and rebuild them again. The first ting he needs to do is get them playing at a higher tempo and getting them closer to the opposition. Stoke were allowed far too much time on the ball without being hassled and put under pressure and when we did get possession we were too slow in moving it around to pull them out of position.
I think he was right in taking Gil off when he did, he seemed to be running out of steam but I would have put Bacuna on and put Weimann on instead of Gabby. Andi runs around a lot and when he is up top alongside Benteke in the past has seemed to take some of the defenders attention away allowing Benteke a bit more freedom.
But as others have said, overall the quality of our players is not very high but with effort and determination they should show themselves to be better than some of the other teams in the league. It will just depend on how much they want it.
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I haven't watched us play for quite a while. This is mainly because watching a stream eats up 10-15% of my laptop's weekly bandwidth allowance (I get my home internet via Eutelsat and Tooway : 20 gigs per month shared between all wifi devices).
I watched yesterday (for obvious new manager reasons) but the overwhelming pusillanimity of our "Lions" left me agape.
I don't think I am as gloomy as I was during the O'Fuckwit years but there will be time for that if we go down.
Just watch our goals. That will take up less than 1% of your allowance.
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Very much reminds of 86/87. I can remember looking at the next game as the one where the team would turn things round and we'd go on a run but it never happened.
Sherwood needs some luck - to hit on a formation or scratch a result from somewhere to instill a modicum of belief into these players. The lack of leaders on the pitch is really telling at the moment.
Have a look at our record in '86/'87. Very similar as you say. Not many hammerings but not many goals for either. If I remember right from Boxing day onwards our goalscoring record was as abysmal as our record so far this season.
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Have always said put the whole squad up for sale and with maybe the exception of guzan,Delph and benteke see who comes in for them.
Maybe Leicester hull and a few championship teams and that folks is where we are at this moment in time.
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Newcastle away is absolutely key. I think we're going to struggle against solid, well organised clubs like Stoke. Newcastle are slightly in disarray. It's a bit of mess there. It's a good time to play them (it's a fucking marvellous time to play us of course too). So we really need to be taking a point minimum from that.
We have to go all out against sides around us and sides in a bit of a slump. The other games are probably a write off. We're just too awful.
The next 3 are games we could take points in, so we've absolutely got to. If we have to start hoping for surprise results against the top sides, or solid sides, we're fucked. Beating QPR at home will be an absolute must too.
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Sherwood did say after the game that 'yeah, perhaps' we played the ball long too much to Benteke. Let's hope we see a bit of a backtrack from that method, because it did not work. If Benteke's free, and you can get the ball to him so he can control it and hold it up, great, but he was surrounded by giants a lot yesterday and we still punted it up to his head. Not smart football from the defenders.
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We are a dire football side . Boring , lethargic and isolated . The premier league will breathe a sigh of relief when our relegation is confirmed .
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I haven't watched us play for quite a while. This is mainly because watching a stream eats up 10-15% of my laptop's weekly bandwidth allowance (I get my home internet via Eutelsat and Tooway : 20 gigs per month shared between all wifi devices).
I watched yesterday (for obvious new manager reasons) but the overwhelming pusillanimity of our "Lions" left me agape.
I don't think I am as gloomy as I was during the O'Fuckwit years but there will be time for that if we go down.
Just watch our goals. That will take up less than 1% of your allowance.
I could afford to stream those in full HD or 4k
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Sherwood did say after the game that 'yeah, perhaps' we played the ball long too much to Benteke. Let's hope we see a bit of a backtrack from that method, because it did not work. If Benteke's free, and you can get the ball to him so he can control it and hold it up, great, but he was surrounded by giants a lot yesterday and we still punted it up to his head. Not smart football from the defenders.
Once they equalised we ran out of ideas and steam really. The lads went back to tried and tested, what they've been taught for the majority of Lamberts reign, hump it to the big man.
What he does in midfield is absolutely key. A two man centre doesn't work because no matter who you put next to Delph (who's only a mid-table player himself) you're left week. So three man is the way to go. I'm not sure what I'd do, never mind Tim. If he wants us to up our tempo then Sanchez will be lost. TC and Westwood are too similar so playing both is redundant.
We could go brave and have Delph plus one, with Gil slightly ahead, or put Bacuna in the middle to provide some energy, and potentially goal threat, but Leandro's passing is too erratic.
One thing I think Sherwood did get right was having our wide man attacking the wings, rather than relying entirely on the fullbacks. We got some joy from Sinclair.
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It could be argued that this was a ideal time to play Stoke,they had just lost their last two matches 4-1,had three of their regular defenders missing. Was so disappointing that after taking the lead we reverted to how we did under Lambert and seemed to sit back.
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Sherwood did say after the game that 'yeah, perhaps' we played the ball long too much to Benteke. Let's hope we see a bit of a backtrack from that method, because it did not work. If Benteke's free, and you can get the ball to him so he can control it and hold it up, great, but he was surrounded by giants a lot yesterday and we still punted it up to his head. Not smart football from the defenders.
Once they equalised we ran out of ideas and steam really. The lads went back to tried and tested, what they've been taught for the majority of Lamberts reign, hump it to the big man.
What he does in midfield is absolutely key. A two man centre doesn't work because no matter who you put next to Delph (who's only a mid-table player himself) you're left week. So three man is the way to go. I'm not sure what I'd do, never mind Tim. If he wants us to up our tempo then Sanchez will be lost. TC and Westwood are too similar so playing both is redundant.
We could go brave and have Delph plus one, with Gil slightly ahead, or put Bacuna in the middle to provide some energy, and potentially goal threat, but Leandro's passing is too erratic.
One thing I think Sherwood did get right was having our wide man attacking the wings, rather than relying entirely on the fullbacks. We got some joy from Sinclair.
Actually they were getting it up to Benteke from minute one. Sometimes effectively, for Benteke to bring down, but a lot of the time they were just going for the slightly desperate flick-on. I agree, though, that we played well on the wings.
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Well it is go for broke time in my book, and that would be.......Clark in midfield
The only one with the drive and cojones to not be outmuscled.
Or up top with Benteke
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Sherwood did say after the game that 'yeah, perhaps' we played the ball long too much to Benteke. Let's hope we see a bit of a backtrack from that method, because it did not work. If Benteke's free, and you can get the ball to him so he can control it and hold it up, great, but he was surrounded by giants a lot yesterday and we still punted it up to his head. Not smart football from the defenders.
Once they equalised we ran out of ideas and steam really. The lads went back to tried and tested, what they've been taught for the majority of Lamberts reign, hump it to the big man.
What he does in midfield is absolutely key. A two man centre doesn't work because no matter who you put next to Delph (who's only a mid-table player himself) you're left week. So three man is the way to go. I'm not sure what I'd do, never mind Tim. If he wants us to up our tempo then Sanchez will be lost. TC and Westwood are too similar so playing both is redundant.
We could go brave and have Delph plus one, with Gil slightly ahead, or put Bacuna in the middle to provide some energy, and potentially goal threat, but Leandro's passing is too erratic.
One thing I think Sherwood did get right was having our wide man attacking the wings, rather than relying entirely on the fullbacks. We got some joy from Sinclair.
Actually they were getting it up to Benteke from minute one. Sometimes effectively, for Benteke to bring down, but a lot of the time they were just going for the slightly desperate flick-on. I agree, though, that we played well on the wings.
I'm no big fan of Westwood but we did miss him yesterday, if only because he can calm things down and show a bit of composure. We needed someone in the middle to do that. Delph doesn't. Sanchez seemed more interested in being half an hour late for every challenge and trying to get himself sent off.
There were a few times I noticed Hutton telling his team mates to slow it down a bit.
If we do survive by the skin of our teeth I could see Sherwood overhauling the midfield. I don't think we'll go back for TC. I don't think Westwood will remain a regular. What happens with Sanchez remains to be seen. If he can't adapt to a higher tempo we may have to cut our losses.
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I think if you put Westwood in that team instead of Gabby you have a lot more balance and solidity.
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Sherwood did say after the game that 'yeah, perhaps' we played the ball long too much to Benteke. Let's hope we see a bit of a backtrack from that method, because it did not work. If Benteke's free, and you can get the ball to him so he can control it and hold it up, great, but he was surrounded by giants a lot yesterday and we still punted it up to his head. Not smart football from the defenders.
Once they equalised we ran out of ideas and steam really. The lads went back to tried and tested, what they've been taught for the majority of Lamberts reign, hump it to the big man.
What he does in midfield is absolutely key. A two man centre doesn't work because no matter who you put next to Delph (who's only a mid-table player himself) you're left week. So three man is the way to go. I'm not sure what I'd do, never mind Tim. If he wants us to up our tempo then Sanchez will be lost. TC and Westwood are too similar so playing both is redundant.
We could go brave and have Delph plus one, with Gil slightly ahead, or put Bacuna in the middle to provide some energy, and potentially goal threat, but Leandro's passing is too erratic.
One thing I think Sherwood did get right was having our wide man attacking the wings, rather than relying entirely on the fullbacks. We got some joy from Sinclair.
Good post.
I wonder if he could do something similar to how previous teams have operated; i.e. Have a natural winger and have the other man showing wide, but filling in a lot by doing lots of leg work.
Morley, Mortimer, Cowans, Bremner
Daley, Richardson, Parker, Houghton
Sinclair, Delph, Sanchez/ Westwood, Cleverley
I know I'm comparing two great midfields against our current lot, but we have what we have. This would have better balance than forcing Gill to stay over on the right.
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The thing that gives me the hump with Benteke is that we seem to constantly fall into this idea that because of his physique the only way to get the best out of him is to punt it in his general direction for him to win in the air. Yes, he can do that, but he's capable of so much more than that, and all the aerial bombardment tactic really does at this stage is make it easy to use just one plan to stop him, especially when he has no confidence like right now. Why don't we try passes to his feet in promising positions around the box, and let him create space for himself to get a good shot off?
I mean, look at his goals this season (let's include the Leicester offside one because we're desperate): against Palace, he faced up to just the one defender and was able to curl it around him into the far corner. Against United, again, one-on-one in the box, and he created enough space to hit the shot properly. Against Leicester, he took an excellent first touch to give himself breathing room to hit it past the keeper (he would have done the same if he was standing onside anyway). Going back to his first season, his goals against Albion, Everton, Liverpool and Chelsea come to mind. Yet we insist on aiming at his head, not at his feet, time after time. That should be plan B, not plan A with him.
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Team for NUFC
--------- given -----------
Hutton Okore Clark cissoko
Cleverly Delph Westwood Bacuna
---- Weimann ---- benteke ----
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I have no idea why Bacuna didn't feature yesterday, especially having such an impact in the Leicester match. And where was Gabby supposed to be playing? He looked like the shit kid at school who always got picked last then told "err...just play where you want mate"
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The problem we have with the longer ball to Benteke, is the players around him, normally to bloody near him, never take the gamble, they wait to see in which direction his flick on is going and then go, good -players gamble make the run and alot of the times it works. looking at yesterday, I would go with Sinclair up front with Benteke, play a diamond midfield with Westwood at the defensive point and Gill at the attacking point. Any of the other midfielders for the other two places, as they are all a much of a muchness.
Clark and Okore and get Vlarr out, first goal yesterday he tryed to get Hutton to mark their forward, when it was clearly his man, then got under the ball when it came in, the second goal, they should have been ducking in the Holte Lower, because that is where it should have gone, straight up the pitch.
Still time but slowly running out.
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Team for NUFC
--------- given -----------
Hutton Okore Clark cissoko
Cleverly Delph Westwood Bacuna
---- Weimann ---- benteke ----
No Sinclair, or Gill?
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I have no idea why Bacuna didn't feature yesterday, especially having such an impact in the Leicester match. And where was Gabby supposed to be playing? He looked like the shit kid at school who always got picked last then told "err...just play where you want mate"
I thought Bacuna was very poor against Leicester.
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I have no idea why Bacuna didn't feature yesterday, especially having such an impact in the Leicester match. And where was Gabby supposed to be playing? He looked like the shit kid at school who always got picked last then told "err...just play where you want mate"
I thought Bacuna was very poor against Leicester.
Well, apart from that scoring a goal lark.
Bacuna might not be as good a player as the other options but he's more likely to take any goal-scoring chances that come his way.
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There is that pal.
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Team for NUFC
--------- given -----------
Hutton Okore Clark cissoko
Cleverly Delph Westwood Bacuna
---- Weimann ---- benteke ----
No Sinclair, or Gill?
Clive wasn't in the game second half yesterday. So maybe start with one and then bring the other on as sub
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His work rate was terrific yesterday. Only problem, when he got it, he was knackered from closing them down. He would stay in my team without a doubt
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I was in the concourse when it happened but on the screens I saw him being applauded as he was walking off. No idea how many did, but some definitely did.
You sure it wasn't "fucking nice one Ron, you idiot you just lost us the game" ironic clapping?
Because if it was "bad luck Ron, we still love you" clapping then those people are morons.
If someone was going to get a red & the challenge didn't involve Stephen 'the leech' Ireland then they should be ashamed not applauded
Clark & Okore for me now - Vlaar only if they get hurt / suspended
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Team for NUFC
--------- given -----------
Hutton Okore Clark cissoko
Cleverly Delph Westwood Bacuna
---- Weimann ---- benteke ----
No Sinclair, or Gill?
Assumed Gil isn't 100% fit
Forgot Sinclair I'd have him in for benteke
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I wonder how Gill would look being played off Benteke? I don't like seeing him as deep as he was yesterday. Offered nothing and was getting himself in trouble
He didn't look fit tho, think ur right pal
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It's a shame Vlaar is out as I'd like to see Okore have a go at right back in an Ivanovic way with Hutton at left back...anyway for Newcastle
Guzan
Hutton
Okore
Clark
Cissokho
Westwood
Cleverley
Delph
Gil
Sinclair
Benteke
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Benteke needs dropping. He's a waste of a shirt at present .
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I wonder how Gill would look being played off Benteke? I don't like seeing him as deep as he was yesterday. Offered nothing and was getting himself in trouble
He didn't look fit tho, think ur right pal
It's where I would like to see him play. As you say he gets in trouble when he drops deep and there were times yesterday when he didn't track back.
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Benteke needs dropping. He's a waste of a shirt at present .
But who comes in instead of him? Gabby? Weimann?
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I'm not saying he could be as effective as Zola, but he (Gill) could bring other people into play in a similar fashion, through his vision and deft passes.
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Gabby is fucking pathetic and he needs to go.
That's all very well, but who instead? Weimann is utter toss.
Well lambert should have sorted it . Hes rubbish now . Should have been replaced , not giving a new contract . Two championship players .
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Sherwood did say after the game that 'yeah, perhaps' we played the ball long too much to Benteke. Let's hope we see a bit of a backtrack from that method, because it did not work. If Benteke's free, and you can get the ball to him so he can control it and hold it up, great, but he was surrounded by giants a lot yesterday and we still punted it up to his head. Not smart football from the defenders.
I think (and hope) he'll have learnt a lot from yesterday. He now has an Assistant who knows the players at the club well, and will have a full week with with his other coach and analyst. They'll know pretty quickly that they need to approach things differently to get the best out of the players we have. My thoughts with Gabby are that everyone knows he has a burst of pace and while it isn't what it was it can be a threat in the right circumstances. I think that's what managers hang onto with him because it is plain to see he brings little else.
As for Benteke they need to figure that one out quick, and maybe next week we revert back to something closer to 4-5-1 or a variation of it with Gil and Sinclair the most advanced in that midfield 5, with Delph and Cleverley/Westwood in front of Sanchez. Okore for Vlaar.
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Hopefully Kozak and Senderos will be back in the reckoning soon.
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Hopefully Kozak and Senderos will be back in the reckoning soon.
I don't think we'll put Kozak in for a few weeks yet unfortunately.
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Sherwood did say after the game that 'yeah, perhaps' we played the ball long too much to Benteke. Let's hope we see a bit of a backtrack from that method, because it did not work. If Benteke's free, and you can get the ball to him so he can control it and hold it up, great, but he was surrounded by giants a lot yesterday and we still punted it up to his head. Not smart football from the defenders.
Once they equalised we ran out of ideas and steam really. The lads went back to tried and tested, what they've been taught for the majority of Lamberts reign, hump it to the big man.
What he does in midfield is absolutely key. A two man centre doesn't work because no matter who you put next to Delph (who's only a mid-table player himself) you're left week. So three man is the way to go. I'm not sure what I'd do, never mind Tim. If he wants us to up our tempo then Sanchez will be lost. TC and Westwood are too similar so playing both is redundant.
We could go brave and have Delph plus one, with Gil slightly ahead, or put Bacuna in the middle to provide some energy, and potentially goal threat, but Leandro's passing is too erratic.
One thing I think Sherwood did get right was having our wide man attacking the wings, rather than relying entirely on the fullbacks. We got some joy from Sinclair.
Actually they were getting it up to Benteke from minute one. Sometimes effectively, for Benteke to bring down, but a lot of the time they were just going for the slightly desperate flick-on. I agree, though, that we played well on the wings.
They were, but again I wonder if that was just simply a tactic Sherwood had to employ seeing as he only had a short time to work with the players. I will be disappointed if our style of play doesn't evolve from that over the next few weeks.
One of the main problems we have with playing that way is Guzan's kicking, particularly off the floor. If you are playing against a team employing those tactics, you make sure you drop one of midfielders in front of the target man at every goal kick, as Stoke did with Whelan yesterday. The problem we have is that Guzan 's kicks tend to fall short, which makes it very difficult for Benteke to win the ball, especially with someone in front of him. I watched it quite closely yesterday and Benteke was having to make up ten yards towards his own goal at times to challenge for the ball off Guzan's kicks which makes it very hard for him to win the challenge.
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Dominic
[/quote].
Gabby has been my pet hate for a few seasons now, he is a total chancer who has played well for a 15 minute spell every 8 games or so, misses multiple games a year with "injuries" and can sniff a manager in trouble so goes through the motions because it will always be someone elses fault. Him under Mcleish should have been enough to get rid of him but he survived another manager or 2 or 3 and still produces nothing.
[/quote]
This
Always blamed the managers and not himself. Could never understand lambert keep playing him and andi. Waste of two players . their input yesterday , was shocking . Andi's final ball was non league standard .
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In the first season the from three of Gabby, Benteke and Weimann looked quite superb at times. I can see why he kept it going for as long as possible. Maybe he just thought the chemistry would return at some point and it never did.
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Actually they were getting it up to Benteke from minute one. Sometimes effectively, for Benteke to bring down, but a lot of the time they were just going for the slightly desperate flick-on. I agree, though, that we played well on the wings.
They were, but again I wonder if that was just simply a tactic Sherwood had to employ seeing as he only had a short time to work with the players. I will be disappointed if our style of play doesn't evolve from that over the next few weeks.
One of the main problems we have with playing that way is Guzan's kicking, particularly off the floor. If you are playing against a team employing those tactics, you make sure you drop one of midfielders in front of the target man at every goal kick, as Stoke did with Whelan yesterday. The problem we have is that Guzan 's kicks tend to fall short, which makes it very difficult for Benteke to win the ball, especially with someone in front of him. I watched it quite closely yesterday and Benteke was having to make up ten yards towards his own goal at times to challenge for the ball off Guzan's kicks which makes it very hard for him to win the challenge.
I think Sherwood wanted them to hit Benteke early - in fact he's strongly intimated as much since he came here - so that seemed like a tactic to me. However, that doesn't mean he definitely wanted them to do it all the time like they did, nor to always go for the flick-on (although Gabby's 'movement', if you can call it that, indicated that the flick-on was at least part of the plan). His pretty direct response in the interview shows that he's having second thoughts, which is great - even if I'd rather not see it much in the first place.
On Guzan, I agree. His distribution with his hands is pretty good, but his kicking has never been much good.
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Chelsea get it forward to Costa as soon as possible and flood players around him. Think we may see us use this tactic with Benteke. It happened in the second half against Leicester in the cup.
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Chelsea get it forward to Costa as soon as possible and flood players around him. Think we may see us use this tactic with Benteke. It happened in the second half against Leicester in the cup.
That's when you need three in midfield, so you can get a couple of them forward with some insurance against the counterattack. Even if Benteke doesn't win the ball his challenge could lead to a loose ball. You need the men around him, though, not flicking onto an even more isolated striker beyond him.
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We also need to work on corners
We had a few yesterday everyone of them was useless,
a corner for Villa at the moment is just another way of giving there goalie the ball
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We also need to work on corners
We had a few yesterday everyone of them was useless,
a corner for Villa at the moment is just another way of giving there goalie the ball
Not that Delph was much better, but why on earth was Weimann taking a corner? We've really not had consistently good set piece delivery since Young and Barry. Get those two aiming at Benteke's nut and suddenly things start to happen as opposed to Westwood/Cleverley or Delph.
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We also need to work on corners
We had a few yesterday everyone of them was useless,
a corner for Villa at the moment is just another way of giving there goalie the ball
Not that Delph was much better, but why on earth was Weimann taking a corner? We've really not had consistently good set piece delivery since Young and Barry. Get those two aiming at Benteke's nut and suddenly things start to happen as opposed to Westwood/Cleverley or Delph.
Well it was pretty obvious yesterday that we haven't got a clue with corners,
hopefully the new man will do something about it,
we must be the least effective team on set pieces in the prem, they are a joke
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Apropos of nothing Jimmy Rimmer's kicks out of his hands presented the same sort of problem to our front men. He would kick across the intended line of the flight of the ball and bend it in the air like a banana. Managed pretty well to cope with it but we did have somewhat better players up front in them days. The free kicks Guzan took yesterday were pretty innocuous.
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Brian, that reminds me of Schmeichel's comedy throw out (vs the Dippers) which hit the ref, Andy d'Urso, in the back for Litmanen to lap it up and score. I was in the Holte for that one. Boxing Day 2001. Went on to lose 1-2 :-(
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If you liked that one BE you would have loved us against Wolves circa 1948 when the wind across a roofless Holte was so strong Joe Rutherford could not get his kicks out of our penalty area. Up steps Sailor Brown (dual Villa and Charlton legend) who leathered a goal kick into the teeth of a violent gust, ball boomerangs, Joe Rutherford dives and palms it into his own net.
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If you liked that one BE you would have loved us against Wolves circa 1948 when the wind across a roofless Holte was so strong Joe Rutherford could not get his kicks out of our penalty area. Up steps Sailor Brown (dual Villa and Charlton legend) who leathered a goal kick into the teeth of a violent gust, ball boomerangs, Joe Rutherford dives and palms it into his own net.
1948 would that be the match where Trefor Ford scored his four goals Brian?
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Given
Hutton Okore Clark Richardson (if fit)
Bacuna Cleverley Delph Sinclair
Gil
Benteke
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I think we are so deep in the mire that it isn't really about picking the magic formation now. It is about Sherwood getting it across to the players that we are in a desperate situation and identifying 11 guys who are willing to take responsibility and dig us out of this shit. The fact that in Vlaar's absence Lambert saw fit to hand Gabby the armband tells me all I need to know about the lack of leaders we have. Personally I'd rather be stewarded by a pineapple than that f**ktard. I can see a few players still with the passion to turn things around; Guzan, Clark, Hutton and, er, oh shit. I think that's why we'll go down. Too many players with their head in the sand deflecting responsibility. Held on to Lambert for way too long. The whole place must reek of failure.
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I must admit this is the most concerning yet in the Lerner era in terms of going down. And that's saying something, it's looked quite probable a couple of times before.
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I think we are so deep in the mire that it isn't really about picking the magic formation now. It is about Sherwood getting it across to the players that we are in a desperate situation and identifying 11 guys who are willing to take responsibility and dig us out of this shit. The fact that in Vlaar's absence Lambert saw fit to hand Gabby the armband tells me all I need to know about the lack of leaders we have. Personally I'd rather be stewarded by a pineapple than that f**ktard. I can see a few players still with the passion to turn things around; Guzan, Clark, Hutton and, er, oh shit. I think that's why we'll go down. Too many players with their head in the sand deflecting responsibility. Held on to Lambert for way too long. The whole place must reek of failure.
unfortunately yes.
all them little flicks yesterday by a number of our players just shirking responsibility.
Gabby might be one of us but his never been good enough, and number 10 wiemann weak. if them two got contracts for championship teams . i think they would be doing well.
thanks to lots of inability we are closer to them two being in a division they may be able to perform in.
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I think if you put Westwood in that team instead of Gabby you have a lot more balance and solidity.
I think if you put a 70KG ballast instead of Gabby in that team you would have far more balance and solidity!
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One of Cleverley or Westy needs to start vs Newcastle for Gabby. I'd have Sinclair and Gil either side of Benteke and a midfield 3 behind. Maybe have Sanchez playing deepest, Delph and midfield partner in front.
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One of Cleverley or Westy needs to start vs Newcastle for Gabby. I'd have Sinclair and Gil either side of Benteke and a midfield 3 behind. Maybe have Sanchez playing deepest, Delph and midfield partner in front.
That's what I am thinking. Yesterday we seemed to go from Lamberts over patient football to playing in a rush with no thought. The second half v Leicester was better with control of midfield plus long balls from time to time. Whatever we go with, Benteke, Gabby and Weimann need to improve dramatically, all were poor yesterday against a reserve defence.
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Senderos would pose more threat up front than agbonlahor, at least he has presence
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If we carry on hoofing it, that's probably not a bad idea.
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Given
Hutton Okore Clark Richardson (if fit)
Bacuna Cleverley Delph Sinclair
Gil
Benteke
Yep, that's probably the team I would go with as well. As we are getting fairly desperate now, I would consider Grealish in place of Bacuna.
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All Cleverley needs to do is not play and suddenly he becomes indispensable it seems. In the brief cameos I've seen of Grealish I don't see any reason to chuck him into a team in a relegation battle.
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I don't think anyone is saying Cleverley is indispensable. That would be nuts. However relative to what Gabby offers he is Andrea Pirlo and we need him to make a more compact midfield.
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I'd play Weimann as an out and out nr 9, Sinclair and Gil on the wings and drop Sanchez and bring in Westwood who can move the ball so much faster .
Is Senderos anywhere hear fit ? If he is you play Okore Swiss Phil Clark and Hutton as LB
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Nzonzi looked dominant yesterday and Ireland did more in 90 minutes than he did in his whole Villa career, and part of the reason was we had an ineffective Delph and a woeful Sanchez against them and they had more freedom than I bet they've had all season.It was like watching MON's teams when we played at home but no quality upfront, Sherwood himself was a tough sod in midfield and we need somebody like that in there, the only one remotely capable of playing that role is Clark, but he's our best defender and should be captain, any ideas because if we are going to fight our way out we need some grit in midfield. Sanchez looked for all the world like he was going to get a second yellow for the last 60 mins and Delph was nowhere.
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I would go with this team next week
Guzan
Hutton, Okore, Clark, Cisoko
Westwood
Cleverley Delph
Gil Sinclair
Benteke
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We have a big problem as our team (barring the defence) is unfit.
Mr Sherwood want's us to play an attacking game which means unselfish running and probing runs. Since August we have have been playing in 10 metre circles. Yesterday was a classic example of having physical fitness where you are not blowing out your arse & your brain thinks seconds earlier.
Both goals conceded were late in each half.
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The 2 substitutions hurt us, we lost composure for the first goal down the right. Gil was occupying 2 players and Weiman was awful as usual in that position.
Vlaar at fault for both goals.
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I would go with this team next week
Guzan
Hutton, Okore, Clark, Cisoko
Westwood
Cleverley Delph
Gil Sinclair
Benteke
Same here I think that is about as good as it gets.
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Mr Sherwood want's us to play an attacking game which means unselfish running and probing runs.
Based on yesterday, Mr Sherwood wants us to lump the ball up at Benteke's head in the vain hope that one of them might bounce in the right direction.
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I would go with this team next week
Guzan
Hutton, Okore, Clark, Cisoko
Westwood
Cleverley Delph
Gil Sinclair
Benteke
Same here I think that is about as good as it gets.
Richardson for Cissokho if fit, but yes for me too. Get the three in the middle to work really hard and close down. Get it wide, get it in. Push Cleverly and Delph forward. We can get a result at Newcastle, minimum of a draw. I wish Sanchez was a better player, he'd be perfect in the holding role but gives it away far too often.
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I would go with this team next week
Guzan
Hutton, Okore, Clark, Cisoko
Westwood
Cleverley Delph
Gil Sinclair
Benteke
Same here I think that is about as good as it gets.
Agreed.
I honestly think we missed Westwood yesterday...no-one prepared/able to put a steady foot on the ball and keep it tight when we needed to.
I like Sanchez but he was poor in the 2nd half yesterday and Delph didn't do enough for the team. He's regularly played well for us and got himself in the England team...he wouldn't do based on his last 3 performances.
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Sherwood did say after the game that 'yeah, perhaps' we played the ball long too much to Benteke. Let's hope we see a bit of a backtrack from that method, because it did not work. If Benteke's free, and you can get the ball to him so he can control it and hold it up, great, but he was surrounded by giants a lot yesterday and we still punted it up to his head. Not smart football from the defenders.
I think (and hope) he'll have learnt a lot from yesterday. He now has an Assistant who knows the players at the club well, and will have a full week with with his other coach and analyst. They'll know pretty quickly that they need to approach things differently to get the best out of the players we have. My thoughts with Gabby are that everyone knows he has a burst of pace and while it isn't what it was it can be a threat in the right circumstances. I think that's what managers hang onto with him because it is plain to see he brings little else.
As for Benteke they need to figure that one out quick, and maybe next week we revert back to something closer to 4-5-1 or a variation of it with Gil and Sinclair the most advanced in that midfield 5, with Delph and Cleverley/Westwood in front of Sanchez. Okore for Vlaar.
I don't buy that KMac knows the players at the club well. It's been almost 4 years since he left. He knows Guzan, Clark, Baker, Weimann and Gabby. Thats pretty much it.
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The last time KMac went with us to St James Park we shipped six and played crap. It cost KMac his shot at the manager's job in my opinion.
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I'd play Weimann as an out and out nr 9
I'd sooner play with 10 men. Weimann is absolutely atrocious and I don't buy this bluster that the reason he's abysmal is because he's played out of position. If he can't play football he can't play football. He had a simple header at Arsenal but he muffed it with his shoulder, he couldn't control his bladder never mind a football and his crossing yesterday was laughable. Okay so he isn't a winger but I do expect a premiership footballer to strike a ball from A to B without stubbing the turf or spooning it directly above his own head. He's utter garbage and the fact that he runs around a lot is a red herring. Micky Quinn was a statuesque lump of lard but he knew where the net was (and the burger van), I want my strikers scoring or creating goals, Weimman does neither and is a waste of a jockstrap. We'll look back in bewilderment in years to come that this oaf managed to get a game for the Villa. He's absolute rubbish.
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I'd play Weimann as an out and out nr 9
I'd sooner play with 10 men. Weimann is absolutely atrocious and I don't buy this bluster that the reason he's abysmal is because he's played out of position. If he can't play football he can't play football. He had a simple header at Arsenal but he muffed it with his shoulder, he couldn't control his bladder never mind a football and his crossing yesterday was laughable. Okay so he isn't a winger but I do expect a premiership footballer to strike a ball from A to B without stubbing the turf or spooning it directly above his own head. He's utter garbage and the fact that he runs around a lot is a red herring. Micky Quinn was a statuesque lump of lard but he knew where the net was (and the burger van), I want my strikers scoring or creating goals, Weimman does neither and is a waste of a jockstrap. We'll look back in bewilderment in years to come that this oaf managed to get a game for the Villa. He's absolute rubbish.
I couldn't agree more. He's beyond useless and I can't understand all these people who think he'll be ok if he plays down the middle.
He has such poor balance that he always looks like he's about to fall over. The classic headless chicken.
And I hate his Billy Big Bollocks attitude; remember him cupping his ears at our fans last season when he (eventually) scored a goal.
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Midfield got over ran badly in second half.Ireland was given too much room and physical presence of Nzonzi was too much for us .That said both Delph and Sanchez where pretty poor both looked too slow and too weak.
I think we need to play Sinclair and Gill off Benteke and keep 3 in midfield as we don't have any combination of 2 that is good enough.
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Midfield got over ran badly in second half.Ireland was given too much room and physical presence of Nzonzi was too much for us .That said both Delph and Sanchez where pretty poor both looked too slow and too weak.
I think we need to play Sinclair and Gill off Benteke and keep 3 in midfield as we don't have any combination of 2 that is good enough.
I don't think we did get particularly overrun in central midfield, though Sanchez did tire and should have been replaced. Apart from their goals, I can't really remember Stoke creating anything of note.
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Stoke may not have been particularly creative but I cannot recall any sustained period in the second half when they did not have us on the back foot. They realized our "tactic" was to aim for Benteke's head which with their aerial command was no more than throwing B'rer Rabbit into his Briar Patch (a children's story about tricking your enemy into doing what you want him to do)
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Good morning everyone, its nearly time for me to head to work to face two of the most vile one eyed Albion fans you will ever meet, cant wait, dont react Steve dont react.
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Positives:
We scored.
Only lost through one players cock-up.
Manager knows we have problems and has only been in charge 1 week - he will no doubt be working on different options.
We have backroom staff that will be addressing the different options.
We are not down yet.
I'd be very surprised if the same team starts the next game, (barring the obvious player that is banned)
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Good morning everyone, its nearly time for me to head to work to face two of the most vile one eyed Albion fans you will ever meet, cant wait, dont react Steve dont react.
Retain your dignity my friend - then piss in their tea
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Couldn't bring myself to look at the post match thread until today. That has to be the worst I've felt after a match since the days of MON when we lost a 2-0 lead to... Stoke. I love that team.
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I'd play Weimann as an out and out nr 9
I'd sooner play with 10 men. Weimann is absolutely atrocious and I don't buy this bluster that the reason he's abysmal is because he's played out of position. If he can't play football he can't play football. He had a simple header at Arsenal but he muffed it with his shoulder, he couldn't control his bladder never mind a football and his crossing yesterday was laughable. Okay so he isn't a winger but I do expect a premiership footballer to strike a ball from A to B without stubbing the turf or spooning it directly above his own head. He's utter garbage and the fact that he runs around a lot is a red herring. Micky Quinn was a statuesque lump of lard but he knew where the net was (and the burger van), I want my strikers scoring or creating goals, Weimman does neither and is a waste of a jockstrap. We'll look back in bewilderment in years to come that this oaf managed to get a game for the Villa. He's absolute rubbish.
I couldn't agree more. He's beyond useless and I can't understand all these people who think he'll be ok if he plays down the middle.
He has such poor balance that he always looks like he's about to fall over. The classic headless chicken.
And I hate his Billy Big Bollocks attitude; remember him cupping his ears at our fans last season when he (eventually) scored a goal.
Yeah but come on "whoop whoop" the season is almost over.
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I'm not one for omens, but I saw a cat get run over on the way to the game.
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The last time KMac went with us to St James Park we shipped six and played crap. It cost KMac his shot at the manager's job in my opinion.
Not a good omen and with Carver getting some stick, Villa could be catching a rebound after the Man City five last weekend.
Sherwood and his merry men need to get the Villa players geed up this week.
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Nzonzi looked dominant yesterday and Ireland did more in 90 minutes than he did in his whole Villa career, and part of the reason was we had an ineffective Delph and a woeful Sanchez against them and they had more freedom than I bet they've had all season.It was like watching MON's teams when we played at home but no quality upfront, Sherwood himself was a tough sod in midfield and we need somebody like that in there, the only one remotely capable of playing that role is Clark, but he's our best defender and should be captain, any ideas because if we are going to fight our way out we need some grit in midfield. Sanchez looked for all the world like he was going to get a second yellow for the last 60 mins and Delph was nowhere.
Agreed he should be captain, more passion and presence than Gabby.
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I really wish we had a midweek game this week, to get the Stoke game out of the system.
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I'm not one for omens, but I saw a cat get run over on the way to the game.
a day for kamikaze pussies
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I'd play Weimann as an out and out nr 9
I'd sooner play with 10 men. Weimann is absolutely atrocious and I don't buy this bluster that the reason he's abysmal is because he's played out of position. If he can't play football he can't play football. He had a simple header at Arsenal but he muffed it with his shoulder, he couldn't control his bladder never mind a football and his crossing yesterday was laughable. Okay so he isn't a winger but I do expect a premiership footballer to strike a ball from A to B without stubbing the turf or spooning it directly above his own head. He's utter garbage and the fact that he runs around a lot is a red herring. Micky Quinn was a statuesque lump of lard but he knew where the net was (and the burger van), I want my strikers scoring or creating goals, Weimman does neither and is a waste of a jockstrap. We'll look back in bewilderment in years to come that this oaf managed to get a game for the Villa. He's absolute rubbish.
I couldn't agree more. He's beyond useless and I can't understand all these people who think he'll be ok if he plays down the middle.
He has such poor balance that he always looks like he's about to fall over. The classic headless chicken.
And I hate his Billy Big Bollocks attitude; remember him cupping his ears at our fans last season when he (eventually) scored a goal.
Third. I have, without any exaggeration, seen Sunday league players with a better first touch than Weimann. The sorry part is, he hasn't improved on it in getting on for four seasons of regular football.
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I'd play Weimann as an out and out nr 9
I'd sooner play with 10 men. Weimann is absolutely atrocious and I don't buy this bluster that the reason he's abysmal is because he's played out of position. If he can't play football he can't play football. He had a simple header at Arsenal but he muffed it with his shoulder, he couldn't control his bladder never mind a football and his crossing yesterday was laughable. Okay so he isn't a winger but I do expect a premiership footballer to strike a ball from A to B without stubbing the turf or spooning it directly above his own head. He's utter garbage and the fact that he runs around a lot is a red herring. Micky Quinn was a statuesque lump of lard but he knew where the net was (and the burger van), I want my strikers scoring or creating goals, Weimman does neither and is a waste of a jockstrap. We'll look back in bewilderment in years to come that this oaf managed to get a game for the Villa. He's absolute rubbish.
I couldn't agree more. He's beyond useless and I can't understand all these people who think he'll be ok if he plays down the middle.
He has such poor balance that he always looks like he's about to fall over. The classic headless chicken.
And I hate his Billy Big Bollocks attitude; remember him cupping his ears at our fans last season when he (eventually) scored a goal.
Third. I have, without any exaggeration, seen Sunday league players with a better first touch than Weimann. The sorry part is, he hasn't improved on it in getting on for four seasons of regular football.
Like many players under Lambert, he's had no reason to. He's never had his place genuinely under threat. I honestly can't fathom why.
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His undroppability last season was bewildering, about on a par with gabby's most of this.
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I like Weimann. I like his energy and if played up front with Benteke, I think he'd be a lot more effective than Gabby has been of late.
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I really wish we had a midweek game this week, to get the Stoke game out of the system.
Unfortunately the Newcastle game would then be needed to get the midweek game out of our system and so on and so forth.
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I like Weimann. I like his energy and if played up front with Benteke, I think he'd be a lot more effective than Gabby has been of late.
I agree entirely. Andi is not a wide player clearly, but I think as a central striker he's a good player. Gabby is hopeless at both positions and doesn't make much effort.
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I really wish we had a midweek game this week, to get the Stoke game out of the system.
Unfortunately the Newcastle game would then be needed to get the midweek game out of our system and so on and so forth.
True, and I suppose next season I will be bemoaning how many midweek games we have got in our 46 match league season.
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I would go with this team next week
Guzan
Hutton, Okore, Clark, Cisoko
Westwood
Cleverley Delph
Gil Sinclair
Benteke
Same here I think that is about as good as it gets.
There are at least 3 players there who are not good enough for the Premier League. There are 2 where the jury is out due to inactivity / just arrived.
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Thing with Weimann is he makes some good runs but generally when he gets in a good position to cross/pass he fluffs his lines.He doesn't really have ability to beat a man so I'm not sure why he keeps getting put wide.Gabby at least as the pace and over the years he has knocked a few good cross's in
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I'm sure it's been mentioned but 11 corners and 10 of them were dreadful. Why can we not get a player who swings a decent one in? It can be a very potent weapon if you've got decent delivery, I can't believe how desperate we are at them at a time we don't create that many chances. Also why have we got a captain that wants out in the summer? What sort of message does that send out to the team, give it to Clark immediately.
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Good morning everyone, its nearly time for me to head to work to face two of the most vile one eyed Albion fans you will ever meet, cant wait, dont react Steve dont react.
Just tell them the Stoke fans have now claimed their favourite song and they'll have to think up a new one. "Pride of Sandwell" maybe.
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I'm sure it's been mentioned but 11 corners and 10 of them were dreadful. Why can we not get a player who swings a decent one in? It can be a very potent weapon if you've got decent delivery, I can't believe how desperate we are at them at a time we don't create that many chances. Also why have we got a captain that wants out in the summer? What sort of message does that send out to the team, give it to Clark immediately.
The same message a dead beat owner sends when he sticks a for sale sign on the club going into the season and does little to propel the team into a respectable position.
I would have never given Vlaar the armband post-contract rejection.
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I'd play Weimann as an out and out nr 9
I'd sooner play with 10 men. Weimann is absolutely atrocious and I don't buy this bluster that the reason he's abysmal is because he's played out of position. If he can't play football he can't play football. He had a simple header at Arsenal but he muffed it with his shoulder, he couldn't control his bladder never mind a football and his crossing yesterday was laughable. Okay so he isn't a winger but I do expect a premiership footballer to strike a ball from A to B without stubbing the turf or spooning it directly above his own head. He's utter garbage and the fact that he runs around a lot is a red herring. Micky Quinn was a statuesque lump of lard but he knew where the net was (and the burger van), I want my strikers scoring or creating goals, Weimman does neither and is a waste of a jockstrap. We'll look back in bewilderment in years to come that this oaf managed to get a game for the Villa. He's absolute rubbish.
I'm in full agreement with this. You could take any workmanlike striker from the two divisions below us and they'd give us as much if not more that Weimann. He's way out of his depth.
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I'm not one for omens, but I saw a cat get run over on the way to the game.
I was washing the kids plates up on Saturday evening, and after washing my son's Villa plate I put it on the upper level of the shite, two-tiered rack my wife bought from IKEA.
It slipped straight through, and then off the saucepan below and straight onto the floor.
We're doomed.
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I'd play Weimann as an out and out nr 9
I'd sooner play with 10 men. Weimann is absolutely atrocious and I don't buy this bluster that the reason he's abysmal is because he's played out of position. If he can't play football he can't play football. He had a simple header at Arsenal but he muffed it with his shoulder, he couldn't control his bladder never mind a football and his crossing yesterday was laughable. Okay so he isn't a winger but I do expect a premiership footballer to strike a ball from A to B without stubbing the turf or spooning it directly above his own head. He's utter garbage and the fact that he runs around a lot is a red herring. Micky Quinn was a statuesque lump of lard but he knew where the net was (and the burger van), I want my strikers scoring or creating goals, Weimman does neither and is a waste of a jockstrap. We'll look back in bewilderment in years to come that this oaf managed to get a game for the Villa. He's absolute rubbish.
I'm in full agreement with this. You could take any workmanlike striker from the two divisions below us and they'd give us as much if not more that Weimann. He's way out of his depth.
Thirded. I've been saying for 2 seasons now that I think Weimann would struggle to make an impact in League one, in any position. People keep saying that he could do a job as a 'Number 9' seem to ignore the number of more-than-presentable chances that he's fluffed in his Villa career. For every half decent finish, I reckon there are at least 5 bad misses. Gabby gets a lot of stick (and rightly so this season), but Weimann is has contributed much, much less than him in their respective Villa careers,
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I'm pretty sure a player with over 20 top flight goals wouldn't struggle in Division 3. And every striker misses presentable chances.
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For me we have a team pretty much full of players who individually consistently perform below a 7 out of 10.