Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: Villan For Life on February 12, 2014, 08:53:15 PM
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Mid-February already so I guess it's time for this.
It will be an interesting year what with international tournaments & a new coach (tba). Time to put the winter behind us & look to the future.
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These are two pieces of encouraging news I reckon
Paul Collingwood has been named England assistant coach for the limited-overs tour of the West Indies and World Twenty20 in Bangladesh.
The former England all-rounder will work alongside head coach Ashley Giles.
Angus Fraser has been appointed as an England selector, but will continue as Middlesex managing director of cricket.
The former England seam bowler, 48, joins national selector James Whitaker and England one-day international and Twenty20 head coach Ashley Giles on the selection panel.
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Fraser joining the selectors and Collingwood joining the coaching staff is the first bit of good news in a while. They'll have fresh ideas and Collingwood has talked about a more aggressive, proactive style of cricket.
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I see Johnson steam rollered the Saffers.
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The franchise owners certainly don't rate English players.
Bopara, Dernbach, Kieswetter, Clarke, Bell & Dernbach are amongst the list of players who went unsold. Sums up our ability in T20 slogfest.
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I would have been interested in Bopara if I was an owner, but none of the others really maybe Kieswetter.
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Dernbach in the IPL lmao! He'd end up with a century of runs against.
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I'm surprised Hales didn't get picked up, he was ranked number Twenty20 player in the world.
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I'm surprised Hales didn't get picked up, he was ranked number Twenty20 player in the world.
Ranked 2020? No wonder he didn't get picked!!
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Oops, ranked number 1!
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Yeah Hales not getting picked is a surprise, as is Bopara who can be a useful cricketer in that form
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Johnson took 7-68.
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Saffers v Australia is great to watch.
Nice to see somebody else on the end of Johnson for a change, also puts a little better perspective on how he blew away England. Saffers have a great batting line up and he just tore into them.
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Australia do probably have the best seam attack at the moment. Harris and Siddle give absolutely nothing at all and Johnson on this form is unplayable and is destroying anyone he comes up against.
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Maybe we've been a little harsh on England over the winter.
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England were still poor, but yeah the Aussies may have been better than we thought.
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South Africa's balance is completely wrong without Kallis, Mclaren isn't good enough, neither is Duminy and I'm not really sure about Peterson either.
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Tremendous result and performance by willy wombats boys - will be interesting to see how the 2nd test goes .
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What's the point in playing the ICC U19 World Cup in Dubai ? There's no one in the ground to watch.
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Absolutely incredible performance from NZ. Fighting back against India, with a first innings deficit of around 280. They are 571-6 in their second innings. Mccullum 281 not out, Watling 124, Neesham 67 nout out.
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Afghanistan beat Australia in the Under-19 World Cup!
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This is a brilliant film about the Afghan cricket team attempting to qualify for the World Cup
Out Of The Ashes (http://www.outoftheashes.tv/)
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It's an excellant book too.
Mccullum is really developing into a world class player. He's a really proactive captain and he's showing he can play big patient innings in Tests now on top of his destructive ODI/Twenty 20 play.
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Seen nothing from India to worry me this summer - perfect opponents for England to rebuild confidence.
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Brendon McCullum becomes the first New Zealand player to make 300.
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Was a brilliant 300 and then straight out but what a fantastic knock. Jimmy Neesham 100 on debut as well, truly fantastic stuff. Fully fit this NZ can be very good, they've got real talent throughout the team. Also the Basin Reserve must be one of the most beautiful grounds in world cricket.
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Was a brilliant 300 and then straight out but what a fantastic knock. Jimmy Neesham 100 on debut as well, truly fantastic stuff. Fully fit this NZ can be very good, they've got real talent throughout the team. Also the Basin Reserve must be one of the most beautiful grounds in world cricket.
The surrounding are bizarre, the Basin (or Baz as it's now known) is technically a big roundabout as you enter Wellington City.
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Ireland beat the Windies in the first game of their Twenty20 series.
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AB De Villiers is a fantastic batman. South Africa were on the rack again but their big names knuckle down and refuse to be intimidated.
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AB De Villiers is a fantastic batman.
Yes, but can he play cricket.
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Good to see the Aussies get thumped.
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Here we go again then, I'll be glad to see Hales at the top of the order though because we need to change how we approach all forms of cricket and be much more aggressive. These ODIs can be a start and I hope a new era can start here.
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I see Prior said the England dressing room would be a better place without KP. KP responded 'less Q&As and more Sussex nets me thinks.' I think he has a point, Prior should be concerned about getting back in that England dressing room rather than worrying about KP.
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Seemed to be going well for quite a while and then they're middle order pissed all over us. Looks like a win turned into a loss.
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Seemed to be going well for quite a while and then they're middle order pissed all over us. Looks like a win turned into a loss.
Poor captaincy from Broad. He should have changed his plans when the two batsmen were well set and making a mockery of the bowling plans and the field placings.
Yet another game where we've let a side off the hook.
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Mooen Ali looking good so far.
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Well, we've fucked this up.
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We were well in control when I stopped watching this. What happened?
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We were well in control when I stopped watching this. What happened?
I'm sure you can imagine. No acceleration in overs 20 - 40 yet again. If only there was a world class, English qualified top order batsman capable of scoring at a quick rate. Oh hang on ....
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I've seen the scorecard now. If you take the bowling in our first 25 overs or so and Lumb getting a century, you would think there would be no way we could lose. We seem to be making screwing up into an art form and it's become a habit.
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Terrible defeat that, if you get a partnership of 96 to start and an open gets a century you should never lose chasing 270.
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Broad has blamed the bowlers for the defeat. Ironic really that the most experienced bowler in the side did not bowl his full quota. Over to you Mr Broad.
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The bowling was good for quite a while. We got 7 Maidens and there were something like 15 back-to-back dot balls which led to a wicket. Then at some point we just started leaking runs for fun. It went from them looking like they would struggle to get 150 to getting 270.
When I stopped watching, Lumb was getting his century and it looked like it was going to be a breeze. When they showed the line graph of their innings and ours, we were miles ahead and had lost 0 wickets to their 4 at the same stage. Going by the scorecard, it must have been a complete batting collapse (again).
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (again).
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Well, yes, OCD that's exactly how it was. Another performance where we threw it away by one stupid wicket falling after another. Very poor effort at trying to win a game. Still, if they can turn it around and learn to win games consistently they could be a useful team.
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Well, yes, OCD that's exactly how it was. Another performance where we threw it away by one stupid wicket falling after another. Very poor effort at trying to win a game. Still, if they can turn it around and learn to win games consistently they could be a useful team.
We put unnecessary pressure on ourselves by not accelerating in the middle overs.
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I confess I'd never heard of Stephen Parry before today's ODI but he acquitted himself very well with three wickets from his spell. Really feels like there's been a generational shift in the 50-over side, a lot of very new faces in there.
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3 wickets in 8 balls so it's comforting to see a player like Bopara come to the crease.
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Yeah ,another chance for Bopara to see us over the line. Not holding my breath though !
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Oh FFS!
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Well we made hard work of that!
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Got there in the end
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Well we nearly fucked it up after an excellent bowling display, but at least we won. Luke wright is not good enough.
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Oh and Bopara is becoming more and more reliable.
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I don't think Bravo was out, Buttler didn't have control of the ball when he broke the stumps, a poor decision by the TV umpire.
Fair play to Stokes for walking too.
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I don't think Bravo was out, Buttler didn't have control of the ball when he broke the stumps, a poor decision by the TV umpire.
Not really because, despite numerous replays, it wasn't absolutely clear that he had lost the ball. The TV umpire can only overturn an on field decision if he is 100% sure it was wrong, and this was not 100%.
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Greame Smith to retire after this Test Match.
The Aussies have taken some scalps in the last few months.
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Greame Smith to retire after this Test Match.
The Aussies have taken some scalps in the last few months.
I don't think that Smith can be counted as a scalp. More a top captain retiring at the end of a proud career.
Let's not forget that Smith has seen off a couple of England's better captains in Vaughan & Strauss. I reckon he played a Machiavellian role in the KP textgate saga too. All in all he's been one of the better international captains of the past 15 years.
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As much as it pains me Lehmann has done a brilliant job with Australia.
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Excellent stuff from Root and particularly Buttler today.
They need to get him in the test side. His raw ability is frightening.
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It was brilliant from Root and Buttler, I'm particularly pleased to see Root getting back to his best. Moeen Ali has impressed me as well.
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Yeah, very useful cricketer, particularly in slowish conditions is Ali.
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One thing that is positive for Giles in this series is that we appear to have changed our stance and are trying to attack at the top of the order, and we're being a lot more innovative in the field. A lot of that may come down to Broad too, but we're approaching it in a more modern way.
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One thing that is positive for Giles in this series is that we appear to have changed our stance and are trying to attack at the top of the order, and we're being a lot more innovative in the field. A lot of that may come down to Broad too, but we're approaching it in a more modern way.
It's about time. We never innovate in the one day game, we always follow.
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Why are they bothering to review these decisions without the technology being available? It's absolutely farcical!
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Why are they bothering to review these decisions without the technology being available? It's absolutely farcical!
I think its an absolute joke that the home broadcaster/home country is expected to pay for Hawkeye/Hotspot/Snicko.
If they are going to implement this technology, then the ICC should be paying for it in every test playing nation.
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Why are they bothering to review these decisions without the technology being available? It's absolutely farcical!
I think its an absolute joke that the home broadcaster/home country is expected to pay for Hawkeye/Hotspot/Snicko.
If they are going to implement this technology, then the ICC should be paying for it in every test playing nation.
The changes to the ICC that have been introduced provide a significant increase in funds that the test playing nations other than Australia, India and England receive. Their income will double. This is designed to protect the future of test cricket. Surely as a result the home nations could fund Hawkeye and snicko?
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It should do, but the ICC tend to make terrible decisions so I'm not holding my breath.
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England win a series!
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Broad seems to offer a lot more that Cook when it comes to captaincy innovation and thinking on his feet. The batting was also more proactive.
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Buttler was excellent, the over where he went after Narine (44th I think) was superb, the flat 6 from the first delivery was hit so hard, one of the cleanest shots you'll ever see. I'm gutted he fluffed his century, he really deserved it. I hope he gets a chance in the test side soon, he's shown that he can pace an innings and get himself set now but he's always going to offer that extra bit of aggression which the test side has missed for a while. If I'm honest I'd be looking for someone similar up the top as well, going at 5-6 an over for the first 10-15 overs of your innings completely changes the attitude of the fielding captain, look at how effective Warner has been doing that against us and SA.
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Its been tried before though and ultimately changed. Looks like the Aussies are tryimg to get back to the 4 runs an over that their great team constantly produced. Warner has been excellent too which is a shame because he's a total gobshite. Hopefully that can be put down to a lack of maturity, let's see. But he's either going to be a batsman of Bradmanesque proportions or he's just having a brilliant run at the moment. When things get tougher can he respond?
As for Buttler, great innings but I'm not sure he's test quality. He does what he does for the one-day side well but it's in a different format where more hitting out is required, especially where he bats. I've not seen enough of his technique to say for sure but from what I have seen when he's not scoring he does seem to struggle and gets out to some ridiculously poor shots.A better technique would give him better options. Plus, I'm not sure his keeping is good enough. Its better than it was but only at an okay county standard level. Whether you think it was out or not that he nearly fluffed a very simple stumping would have had more trained eyes a little worried.
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The 3 in the frame are:
Prior - averaging 20 for the last 18months but a fairly solid keeper, 32 years old
Buttler - uncapped at test level but has saved our arses 3-4 times in the shorter form, fairly solid keeper with a decent reputation, 23 years old
Bairstow - 14 appearances with an average of 26 and a very ropey keeper, 24 years old
For me Prior looked fucked last summer and was even worse in Australia, a bit of a break might help him but we need to give some game time to a replacement. On the evidence I see nothing to suggest Bairstow offers enough with the bat to make up for his keeping and make him the sensible choice. I agree Buttler's technique at times looks a bit weak when he's not scoring but when you consider his role in the short format for us has been to accelerate the run rate that could be frustration at not scoring as much as anything but his form in the ODI and T20 means he deserves a chance.
Every good side in the last 30 years has had someone at the top putting the field under pressure and someone in the middle to turn a game around with quick runs when needed. We've struggled recently because we haven't had either of those.
I see also that Root has come home with a broken thumb, I thought I saw them strapping his hand after he got out and it makes sense why he changed to playing flicks rather than driving straight. I feel really sorry for him, to have something like that late on in his best innings for months is just a shitty bit of bad luck.
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I'm not sure that one day specialism counts for much in the test side. For Buttler read Morgan. A technique built around one day strengths will get found out at test level.
I really rate Buttler but I don't think that he's test class yet. He needs time in the middle for Lancashire and for the Lions. Rewind three years and we were talking about Kieswetter as a shoo-in for the test side Gilchrist clone and he doesn't get a look in any more.
I would start the summer tests with Prior. I question how much the Pietersen saga affected Prior and the break from the game may have done him good. If he fails then I'd try Stephen Davis from Surrey.
Your test keeper should first and foremost be selected on his keeping ability. Any runs that he scores with the lower middle order are a bonus. Missed stumpings and dropped catches will cost more in the test than a decent innings once every five or six visits to the crease.
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Morgan's issue was not a lack of technique, it was more a loss of confidence/technique. When he lost his place in the Test side he was completely shot, he'd developed a crouch trigger movement and he was getting into completely the wrong position. He's sorted that now and it's why I think he's got an excellent chance of being in the Test side in the summer. I think Buttler's batting would be pretty much there for Test level, it's just his keeping that needs more work.
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I'd like to see Morgan get another crack at it. If he has sorted that glitch where he was crouching at the point of delivery then he could come good. But, he does seem to have fallen down the pecking order so coaches must be seeing otherwise. If he has sorted it then he may get a final chance thuis summer as numbers 4-6 need sorting.
Cook
AN Other
AN Other
Bell
AN Other
AN Other
Prior
Thos 4 places will definitely see Root somewhere. I think he'd need to be in at 5 and maybe Morgan at 6. Trott should be back at 3. There are other possible varitaions of that but I do think we need to have a more dynamic top 3 and with Cook and Trott there maybe time to bin Carberry and look for someone to get after the bowling more and be more positive.
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I'd like to see Morgan get another crack at it. If he has sorted that glitch where he was crouching at the point of delivery then he could come good. But, he does seem to have fallen down the pecking order so coaches must be seeing otherwise. If he has sorted it then he may get a final chance thuis summer as numbers 4-6 need sorting.
Cook
AN Other
AN Other
Bell
AN Other
AN Other
Prior
Thos 4 places will definitely see Root somewhere. I think he'd need to be in at 5 and maybe Morgan at 6. Trott should be back at 3. There are other possible varitaions of that but I do think we need to have a more dynamic top 3 and with Cook and Trott there maybe time to bin Carberry and look for someone to get after the bowling more and be more positive.
I think Trott's return could be further away than we think. The ECB will have memories of Trescothick who returned to the side having suffered from a similar problem and suffered a relapse.
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Dependent on form I think I'd start the summer with -
Cook
Robson
Root
Bell
Morgan
Stokes
Prior(Buttler close)
Broad
Jordan
Onions
Anderson
I haven't picked a spinner because noone stands out at the minute, but if say Borthwick started the season well then he could be in with a shout. However I think that side has a good balance, as you can use Root for some spin overs.
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I would like to see Buttler given the chance just to find out whether he can do it or not.
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I would like to see Buttler given the chance just to find out whether he can do it or not.
I think he can definitely do it.
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Jade Dernbach..................why
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I'm just staggered Moeen Ali was dropped.
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I'm just staggered Moeen Ali was dropped.
and me.............
Why only one spinner and its funny that Gayle is suddenly fit when the T20 games start........
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Stoke's not bowling with a brain here, pitch it up.
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3 short balls in a row all battered, this is like Bresnan the other day.
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I really don't understand how Dernbach stays in the team.
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Although his last over was very good.
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Luke Wright is a complete waste of space as well.
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Luke Wright is a complete waste of space as well.
spot on Paul
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this is still very much on. No need to panic in 20/20 just yet 9 an over is very gettable. You've won 2 now show us can win a 3rd.
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Christ on a fucking bike. Why do I bother?
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It's been a really poor display and selection today.
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Picking Luke Wright misguided to say the least. It's clear that he's hopelessly out of form, whether you rate him or not.
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Christ almighty. Stokes is clearly a player suited to the longer form of the game but is nowhere near good enough for this shorter game level. Also, why did we lose our bottle and not go with spin early on again? They learnt from what we did and are doing it to us. Just as we stopped. Bloody crazy.
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Moeen Ali should have been playing definitely, we also should have had Parry in the team at the very least.
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well that was another waste.
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As bad as we were today, you've got to love comments on the BBC thread, 'England's complete inability to play spinners in limited overs cricket cricket doesn't bode well for the World Twenty20'. I'm guessing that person didn't watch the ODI series from just last week.
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Broad out of the rest of the T20's in the Windies due to a knee injury
gotta be a doubt for the World Cup with Root..........
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Most of today's team played as if they only knew Rounders.
Gah.
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I agree with the Luke Wright comments, he shouldn't have started, Ali in for him would've been much better.
My bigger concern is that we seem far too rigid with the batting line-up. Buttler shouldn't have come in when he did, he's the finisher, you want him there in the last 5-6 overs not coming on when we need to solidify things after a top order collapse.
I thought the bowling was ok, 160-170 looked about par for that pitch for me we just got the tempo wrong for the fist 7-8 overs and left ourselves with far too much to do later on.
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Take it we lost the baseball then?
Meh.
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I agree with the Luke Wright comments, he shouldn't have started, Ali in for him would've been much better.
My bigger concern is that we seem far too rigid with the batting line-up. Buttler shouldn't have come in when he did, he's the finisher, you want him there in the last 5-6 overs not coming on when we need to solidify things after a top order collapse.
On the other hand, Bopara's playing well and we don't seem to be getting the most out of him in that finisher role. I would rather he be higher up the order and given the chance to construct an innings.
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I agree with the Luke Wright comments, he shouldn't have started, Ali in for him would've been much better.
My bigger concern is that we seem far too rigid with the batting line-up. Buttler shouldn't have come in when he did, he's the finisher, you want him there in the last 5-6 overs not coming on when we need to solidify things after a top order collapse.
I thought the bowling was ok, 160-170 looked about par for that pitch for me we just got the tempo wrong for the fist 7-8 overs and left ourselves with far too much to do later on.
I actually think Buttler needs more overs to get in, look at the ODI when he had a chance to settle before launching his assault.
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Looks like we're bombing against spin again.
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Hit straight England for fucks sake.
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Buttler supporting the view he should be higher up the order.
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Buttler supporting the view he should be higher up the order.
not really, this is what he should be doing for the last 10 overs, we just need someone else to do it at the start as well.
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looking at it again the delivery that got Moeen Ali is an absolute beauty, excellently disguised slow leg break, no shame being done by that on your T20 debut. Lumb was unlucky as well, I doubt many people would've been shocked if that wasn't given, definitely a noise as the ball passed the bat.
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I like the rain.
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Buttler supporting the view he should be higher up the order.
not really, this is what he should be doing for the last 10 overs, we just need someone else to do it at the start as well.
Well it is, if you come in low down the order in twenty20 you expect to be looking at 2-3 overs, having half the innings because he came in higher up makes a massive difference. This game has become interesting now.
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See that's poor from Bresnan, 3 fine deliveries and then drops short. He bowls short too often.
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But then he closed it out very well.
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Get your yorkers in Dernbach.
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That's the game gone now.
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Awful over from Bresnan and the game is gone. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that the bowlers who took pace off the ball bowled well and then we save pace bowlers for the death overs. Not good enough.
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Darren Sammy does what Luke Wright should do.
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Buttler supporting the view he should be higher up the order.
not really, this is what he should be doing for the last 10 overs, we just need someone else to do it at the start as well.
Well it is, if you come in low down the order in twenty20 you expect to be looking at 2-3 overs, having half the innings because he came in higher up makes a massive difference. This game has become interesting now.
The thing is there really shouldn't be a set batting order in t20, you pick the right player for the situation. Buttler was a good call at the time he came in today because we were in danger of getting bogged down so his big hitting gave us a fighting chance, but that won't always be the case. In perfect circumstances we'd want to be bringing him in with 100+ on the board and 7-8 overs to go so he can just go for it and try to be the difference between an average 150-160 and a very good 180. He won't do it every time but the idea of a finisher is to do exactly that and he has the power to be a truly top drawer finisher. We need Morgan, Hales (although he did well today) and Lumb to find a bit of form at the top and start scoring at 110-120% to build that position.
I didn't watch after the rain delay, I had to do a bit of work, but I don't really understand why Ali didn't bowl on a pitch that was so suited to taking the pace off the ball, seems like we made a big mistake there.
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Started well but going backwards a bit now.
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Make that a lot.
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Jordan should have been in earlier.
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Jordan should have been in earlier.
Jordan should play every game instead of Dernbach.............
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Great first over from Dernbach mind.
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Jordan is having some day.
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Dernbach got incredibly lucky there
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Jordan is having some day.
He played the proverbial blinder.
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Stokes out of T20 World Cup due to punching a locker...........mmm not learnt his lesson then
Woaksie called up.........His bowling may be useful on the slow, low wickets of Bangladesh
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I'm not sure how I feel about the Trotty interview on Sky, he is visibly still upset and I don't think it should have been done.
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I'm not sure how I feel about the Trotty interview on Sky, he is visibly still upset and I don't think it should have been done.
Vaughan has written a great piece on this -trott was disrespectful to depressed people in his comments using words like I'm not a nutcase or crazy just out of form .
Vaughan is right - trott has done a runner and let down his teammates .
@MichaelVaughan: My thoughts on the Trott interview...http://t.co/qylTLAxI8s. With @TelegraphSport
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If true then Vaughan is totally correct imo. Trott has gone down immeasurably in my estimations.
So there was no mental illness, he was just feeling burnt out. After coming off a 6 week break and after 3 days of Test Cricket in the most important Series we can play in. Fuck me, these sportsmen have no idea sometimes.
Funny he became burnt out when he'd just had to face the hostility of Mitchell Johnson and had surrendered his wicket twice and the time when you needed the experienced players to make a stand. No wonder Swann thought it acceptable to piss off mid tour, after all Trott had done it after 4 days.
Absolute validation of the decision to let Flower go as the culture clearly was piss poor if this was by any means acceptable.
Worse still, it now appears that that massive gobshite Warner may have been right in his analysis after all.
How would you feel as a young player trying to score runs in the County Championship if Trott gets in ahead of you. Don't care if he scores thousands of runs, don't pick him again.
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I'm not convinced we can jump to the conclusion he bottled it and there wasn't more there. In the interview he was visibly emotional and his eyes were welling up, I don't think you react like that if you were burnt out a few months ago.
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I don't know what to think, part of me thinks the interview is an attempt to 'man it up' and make light of the problem, which would be a serious misjudgement. I do think it was a lot more than just a bit burned out, he looked totally out of character in the summer as well. Bad attempt to be macho for me.
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I'm not convinced we can jump to the conclusion he bottled it and there wasn't more there. In the interview he was visibly emotional and his eyes were welling up, I don't think you react like that if you were burnt out a few months ago.
What do you make of vaughan's article ?
He seems to be in little doubt and trott was foolish to use words like nutcase and crazy when denying he had been depressed.
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Well Vaughan's article may be accurate, but to be fair Trott may not really know if he was depressed and if he's struggling to cope with facing that fact he may be using those words to distance himself fromwhat he's faced. Also just because Trott says he was burned out doesn't mean he's accurately understood what happened to him. The amount of emotion he showed in the interview suggests to me that it wasn't just 'burn out'.
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The ones who the questions should be asked of are the ECB. I think the whole planning of the back to back Ashes on top of all the other international matches finally got too much for him and he "bottled" (and I don't mean that in a vindictive way) it. It's all very well these committee men sitting there in the posh seats counting the pennies and enjoying the perks, it is the players who have to go out there into the middle and face the music. Don't forget, years ago they were on liners for weeks between series, and travelling around at a relatively sedate pace. Nowadays it is often on a plane for a few hours to the other side of the world, a bit of practice and into a test match. Very few warm up matches or practice matches between test matches nowadays. Then when that series has ended, including all the 50 overs/20-20's, it's on the plane again and off to somewhere else to go through the routine again. More hotels, more cricket. I think it all got too much for him - whether that is depression or not, I don't know.
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I hope Trott isn't expecting to walk back into the England team.
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I don't know what to think, part of me thinks the interview is an attempt to 'man it up' and make light of the problem, which would be a serious misjudgement. I do think it was a lot more than just a bit burned out, he looked totally out of character in the summer as well. Bad attempt to be macho for me.
That would be my reading and if you watch the interview he is on the verge of tears. There's more to this than just burn out and the use of inappropriate terms towards mental illness suggest very much trying to be macho. I think Vaughan may have misjudged this quite badly.
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I hope Trott isn't expecting to walk back into the England team.
Me too, rather see him banging the runs for warwickshire this season as England rebuild.
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Sounds like that's exactly what he does expect.
Would send a terrible precedent if he's allowed to walk straight back in imo.
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I bet the Australians are loving this, he's basically confirmed he couldn't handle Johnson.
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England being dismantled by Chris Gayle this morning in warm up match, we only made 131 WI are 77 - 0 in 9th over
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There was nothing to suggest that Trott was depressed when he left the tour. It also shows that there is still a lack of understanding about depression and the handling of it. I don't think Vaughan's comments are appropriate at all. We just don't know what went on but it appears that it was burn out, which can lead to stress and a breakdown. That is something different to depression but can still affect the person physically and mentally.
Trott is the only person for me that still comes out of it with any credit. He knew he was having a problem and left. Knowing that you will be in teh full galre of the media and nation I doubt that eh went home because he couldn't face Johnson. This is an intenrational cricketer who was averaging 50 until very recently. They aren' the stats of someone who couldn't face one good fast bowler.
I hope Trott gets runs quickly and regains his drive. England, and Warwickshire, need him. Oh, as do Birmingham Bears.
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England being dismantled by Chris Gayle this morning in warm up match, we only made 131 WI are 77 - 0 in 9th over
England lost with 4 overs to spare.....Gayle 58 no (38)
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A standard battering then, not good enough.
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Bresnan, Dernbach, Bell. They should not be in any t20 squads.
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Michael Vaughan is trying to be the new Geoff Boycott .Listening to him on TMS drives me to sleep
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Michael Vaughan is trying to be the new Geoff Boycott .Listening to him on TMS drives me to sleep
Trouble is, just like Boycott he talks a lot of sense.
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I bet the Australians are loving this, he's basically confirmed he couldn't handle Johnson.
They do, they also think Warner has largely been vindicated and that Trott was in fact weak.
I just nod my head, partly because I agree and partly because it's easier that way to get them off the subject. The tour from hell that even now keeps kicking you in the bollocks.
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But Trott was neither 'weak' or was Warner 'vindicated'. Just because its the new vogue to want to cozy up and pretend to care for and understand those with depression as if it'll earn you a carer's badge, that doesn't mean that everyone else who has any stress related problem can be dismissed so lightly and out of hand.
It's ironic that those who are having a pop at Trott are being like most of us before depression became the new buzz illness that we could care about. Whereas before sufferers were belittled and mocked, now anyone who may have stress, or a breakdown, or just being overworked and needing a break is similarly being mocked and dismissed.
It shows that we can only pretend to understand one mental problem at a time. Or even care about it. Vauhgan is totally out of order here and is being as ignorant as those that never sought to understand the problems of those with depression. It is very poor and and the BBC shouldn't be giving him a platform to spout his shite.
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But Trott was neither 'weak' or was Warner 'vindicated'. Just because its the new vogue to want to cozy up and pretend to care for and understand those with depression as if it'll earn you a carer's badge, that doesn't mean that everyone else who has any stress related problem can be dismissed so lightly and out of hand.
It's ironic that those who are having a pop at Trott are being like most of us before depression became the new buzz illness that we could care about. Whereas before sufferers were belittled and mocked, now anyone who may have stress, or a breakdown, or just being overworked and needing a break is similarly being mocked and dismissed.
It shows that we can only pretend to understand one mental problem at a time. Or even care about it. Vauhgan is totally out of order here and is being as ignorant as those that never sought to understand the problems of those with depression. It is very poor and and the BBC shouldn't be giving him a platform to spout his shite.
Completely agree, even if it wasn't what others have suffered from you can see from Trott's interview that he's still emotionally impacted by it. Dismissing it as bottling it is completely out of order.
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But Trott was neither 'weak' or was Warner 'vindicated'. Just because its the new vogue to want to cozy up and pretend to care for and understand those with depression as if it'll earn you a carer's badge, that doesn't mean that everyone else who has any stress related problem can be dismissed so lightly and out of hand.
It's ironic that those who are having a pop at Trott are being like most of us before depression became the new buzz illness that we could care about. Whereas before sufferers were belittled and mocked, now anyone who may have stress, or a breakdown, or just being overworked and needing a break is similarly being mocked and dismissed.
It shows that we can only pretend to understand one mental problem at a time. Or even care about it. Vauhgan is totally out of order here and is being as ignorant as those that never sought to understand the problems of those with depression. It is very poor and and the BBC shouldn't be giving him a platform to spout his shite.
Completely agree, even if it wasn't what others have suffered from you can see from Trott's interview that he's still emotionally impacted by it. Dismissing it as bottling it is completely out of order.
I know it all about opinions and I totally disagree chaps.
But anyway that aside, why was he on the tour at all if this was going on. Sorry but Trott has to take some responsibility here for something doesnt he?
This wasn't some stationery sales convention he was attending it was an Ashes tour. If he wasn't right (and we can have differing views on the reasons) why was he there and why was he picked. What was Trott doing and what was Flower doing.
Unless of course the stress come up when the crowd got hostile and Johnson revved up to 150 clicks. If that was the catalyst he was a bottler. If he was already struggling he should have not been there in the first place.
Either way, he did let his team down (as did Greame Swann).
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He was there because it's not manly to admit you've got a problem and be rested, you just "suck it up and get on with it". To me him going on the tour and this article since point to him having a pretty dated opinion on mental health issues, so much so that he's trying to distance himself from them. There are pretty obvious differences in brain patterns between a normally functioning brain and that of someone suffering from depression:
(http://seanduke.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/depressed-brain.jpg)
These differences manifest in other ways as well. I'd be alarmed if the ECB sent a tour party to Australia without medical staff who have an understanding of this and I'm pretty sure they'll have done more than just send him home to rest. He might want to say he's just had a bit of burn out but he's now ready to return but that doesn't mean the medical team share that opinion. If they'd said he'd left the tour for personal reasons I'd think they were unsure but at the time it sounded like they had something more than that.
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That's the point, everyone seems to be under the impression that Trott is fully aware of what he's suffering from. From the interview I saw and the terminology used when he left the tour, I think he's in denial that he has a mental issue and is having trouble confronting it. It's a lot easier for him to say it's 'burn out' than confront a more difficult truth.
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Meanwhile there is a World Cup going on - with England involved in another warm up game where India made 178 - 4 and England
are currently 51-1 6 overs
Ireland 45-0 needing another 79 off 85 balls v UAE
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And England ended up losing yet another war up game.
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Our side is just completely wrong and it should have dawned on the management by now, we've lost something like 6 out of 7. We need a radical shake up.
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And England ended up losing yet another war up game.
Steady with that kind of talk!
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Ireland 48-1 after power play our own Will Porterfield going well 39 (21) in a game they must win after Zimbabwe won earlier by 5 wkts with 6.2 overs to spare. Giving them a better ner run rate.
Now 56-1
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Ireland 48-1 after power play our own Will Porterfield going well 39 (21) in a game they must win after Zimbabwe won earlier by 5 wkts with 6.2 overs to spare. Giving them a better ner run rate.
Now 56-1
69-2 Porterfield gone bowled 47 (32) 9.1 overs
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Ireland 48-1 after power play our own Will Porterfield going well 39 (21) in a game they must win after Zimbabwe won earlier by 5 wkts with 6.2 overs to spare. Giving them a better ner run rate.
Now 56-1
69-2 Porterfield gone bowled 47 (32) 9.1 overs
119-3 off 15 Joyce gone run out 28 (25)
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149-3 16.3 Poynter 50* (27) In with O'Brien who hasnt got going yet.16(8) 151-3 16.5
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189-4 20
Poynter out on last ball 57
O'Brien 42* (16) some shots played by him.
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Game on Netherlands 46-0 3 overs......entertaining stuff.....bear in mind qualifier from this group joins England....we have bad history v Ireland. Big ask
for the Dutch though got to get these in about 14 overs
52-0 3.1 overs!!!! Another 6
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68-0 4 overs. It is 14.2 overs that they must win by to qualify
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68 for none after 4
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Myburgh just got his 50 - 52(17) 3 x 4's 6 x 6's
82-0 5 overs
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so 108 of 9.2
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Borren out 31
91-1 6 overs
They require 99 off 50 balls to qualify....the way they are going who knows...depends how well Myburgh does.
Dockerell coming on to bowl....
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Dockerell hit for 6 first ball.
Myburgh holes out next ball caught where else but on the boundary going for a 6
98-2
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90 in 44 then
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116-3 off 9
74 required off 32 to qualify
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132-3 10
58 off 26 to qualify
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so where's your money then?
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18 off 3 balls leaning greatly toward the dutch
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Amazing stuff 157-3 11
33 off 20 to qualify...they deserve it
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Wicket! Maybe not over yet.
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I really hope the Dutch can win this now.
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Cooper gone 45 (15) 161-4 11.2
29 off 18 now
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the thing is Ireland are out anyway now.
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the thing is Ireland are out anyway now.
They should not win this from here even if dutch dont do it in time
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Yeah, barring a collapse. Looks like it's between Holland and Zimbabwe.
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164-4 12
26 off 14
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177-4
13 off 8 required
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Fantastic batting performance from Netherlands. 193 off just 13.5 overs is amazing stuff.
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Fukc me done it with 2 balls to spare.
Astonishing!!!!
Won by 6 wkts with 37 balls remaining.
I don't fancy playing them on this form!!!
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13.95 per over they scored at
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The Irish bowlers have gotta be very disappointed with themselves there, O'Brien has reasonable figures but the rest of them seem to have panicked in the face of some aggressive batting and fallen apart. Kinda wish I could've watched it though.
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In the first game of the 'proper' tournament India have won the toss and are batting v Pakistan.
Do well to match the excitement of the last game...but i suppose the fact that it's these two
will ensure a great atmosphere.
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1.5 overs 9-1 Kamran Akmal run out 8...good start for India.
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Fukc me done it with 2 balls to spare.
Astonishing!!!!
Won by 6 wkts with 37 balls remaining.
I don't fancy playing them on this form!!!
They've beaten us before.....
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Powerplay completed 34-1 6overs
Shezhad 13 (9)
Hafeez 12 (17)
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Pakistan 44-2 7.3 overs
Umar Akmal in now
Hafeez man out
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Pakistan 47-3 8.2
Shezhad St Dhoni b Mishra 22 (17)
Shoaib Malik in now
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Our new 'Birmingham' Bear faces 4 dot balls to start his innings 47-3 9 overs
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10 overs 50-3
Malik off the mark
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New Bear gets first 6 of the innings moved on to 76-3 12 overs
Malik 9 (10)
Akmal 21(13)
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96-3 15
Akmal 29 (22)
Malik 18 (19)
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97-4 15.1
Malik ct on boundary 18 off 20
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114-6 18.5
Boom Boom out for 8
1 over to go 115-6
Can't see this game getting away from India but Pakistan have a great attack as well.
123 - 6 19.2
127-6 19.3
129-6 19.4
129-6 19.5
130-7 20 run out on last ball going for a second
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So what does that bowling performance from India say about our performance in the warm up game, anything?
Pakistan have a very decent batting line-up for t20 and yet they've struggled at just over a run a ball. However the last couple of T20 internationals a Mirpur have been won with a score in the 130s. It will be interesting to see what India do in response.
I'm generally not overly concerned by the results in the warm-up games with tournaments where there is a group stage but seeing India control with the ball and then go big with the bat would be a sign that we maybe weren't as bad as we think.
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India started slowly but increasing tempo slightly are now 34-0 off 5.4 overs.
Importantly haven't lost any wickets
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Come on Pakistan, make a sodding game of it.
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India 54-1 gonna assume an indian win and gonna go for a beer.
Dharwan out 30
Kohli in now if he stays there they will piss it.
77 off 72 required.
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Can I say I love the bails and stumps that light up? Great idea, now you can see when they've been hit!
I think this should be extended to batsmen's boxes too.
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Bit of a stroll for India
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That Dutch performance was insane.
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Luke Wright ruled out of tournament ..........we have called up Craig Kieswetter
S/L v SA looks like a being a good game
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Luke Wright is no great loss to be honest. I fancy Sri Lanka or West Indies for this tournament.
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Malinga's chucked one onto the stumps. Chokers 33-1 off 5.1 overs chasing 166 to win.
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That Dutch performance was insane.
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Great start again
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Looks like the inevitable fucking up of a good position again.
Morgan and Buttler need to turn up.
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Looks like the inevitable fucking up of a good position again.
Morgan and Buttler need to turn up.
You're right Morgan fails to succeed again wickets are falling too quickly now. They need 180 against these bare minimum.
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Moen Ali batted well today, England have hardly played him in the warm up games and kept dropping him down the order.
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145-5 after 17. I think we'll need at the very least 170
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Brilliant. last 10 balls have yielded 6 runs
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Need a Bopara special last over
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172-6 after 20 overs...........
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172-6 after 20 overs...........
Decent score would have liked 180.....bowlers got to do their jobs....get McCallum cheap!!
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172 not bad, but could have, and probably should have been 185-190 with the platform that Lumb and Ali built.
Can't afford any of the bowlers to have an off day now
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172 not bad, but could have, and probably should have been 185-190 with the platform that Lumb and Ali built.
Can't afford any of the bowlers to have an off day now
Not looking enough so far
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Well, I guess that's pretty much it for this game. The're ahead on DL, and even if they get back out the revised target will be massively in their favour.
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Leaving aside the fact that allowing 5 overs to make a game being utter nonsense, the bowling hasn't been good enough.
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D/L in T20 is stupid, 1 good over with the bat from McCullum won that, but it came when it was pretty clear that the game was going to get rained off so it really was a 1 over slog and he knew it.
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D/L in T20 is stupid, 1 good over with the bat from McCullum won that, but it came when it was pretty clear that the game was going to get rained off so it really was a 1 over slog and he knew it.
Of course it is ludicrous and massively favours the team batting second. That match should have been a draw, you can't determine what would happen from 5 overs. 172 was a good total and would have been tough to get.
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D/L in T20 is stupid, 1 good over with the bat from McCullum won that, but it came when it was pretty clear that the game was going to get rained off so it really was a 1 over slog and he knew it.
Of course it is ludicrous and massively favours the team batting second. That match should have been a draw, you can't determine what would happen from 5 overs. 172 was a good total and would have been tough to get.
Agree, but we probably wouldn't have been complaining if we had won in similar circumstances. Seems a bit stupid to have a D/L target after 5 overs, especially as they are power play overs. McCullum read the situation and we were a little naive / lacking game intelligence (delete as applicable) yet again.
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Glenn Maxwell is slaughtering Pakistan.
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It's a cracking game, but I thought that Pakistan were 20 runs short of where they should have been; the Aussie batsmen seem to be proving that too.
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Ajmal drops Maxwell that might be the game.
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Maxwell gone, but Aussies still favourites.
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What a game Pakistan vs Australia was.
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West Indies need to get a move on.
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Looks like another exciting finish here. I think a South Africa win would be better for England. If New Zealand move onto two wins with Holland still to play, they're basically through so England only have one qualifying space to play for.
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Just me watching then? New Zealand need three off the last ball. Two for a Super Over.
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Just me watching then? New Zealand need three off the last ball. Two for a Super Over.
I'm following the ball by ball text commentary on Cricinfo. It's like watching football on Ceefax.
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South Africa win, last ball run out.
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South Africa win, last ball run out.
Thanks - you're ahead of Cricinfo!
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Sounds like a belter, that's probably a better result for England to be honest as well.
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Steyn is rather good.
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I remember seeing Steyn when he was playing for the Bears. He was quick.Only other bowler i have seen play for the bears as quick, is Donald
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Well, this is a bit shit. Didn't expect Netherlands to come close to winning but was hoping for at least thirty overs worth of cricket.
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As a result of that Sri Lanka essentially need to win one game and they're through now.
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As a result of that Sri Lanka essentially need to win one game and they're through now.
They should confirm their semi final place relatively comfortably on Thursday
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We really need to beat Sri Lanka, although I somehow doubt that. But either way we need them to win their game against NZ.
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You just know England will be the only team that struggles against Netherlands/Bangladesh.
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But of course.
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A must win for England today after the D/L shambles on Saturday. It's going to be incredibly tough, but we can't sit in we need to impose ourselves on the game.
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South Africa massively struggling against the Netherlands, they'll need Steyn to dig them out again.
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Great fightback from Holland. Need a decent start with the bat after the awful performance Sri Lanka.
Quiz question, no Googling: what's the capital of Sri Lanka?
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It's Colombo isn't it?
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Not technically. That's what I always thought but apparently the official capital is Sri Jayawardenepura Kotte.
Rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?
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You learn something everyday!
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Hmmm... you never know. Come on Netherlands!
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Can I just say how funny I'd find it if Myburgh keeps going and gets them a win here. Come on Netherlands!
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If this continues it throws open the group.
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They just need to be sensible now.
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Cannot believe there isn't a review system in an international tournament.
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Jammy wicket for South Africa. They should be allowed at least one review per innings.
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Blame the Indian cricket authorities for that.
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Looks like South Africa have got out of jail.
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The Netherlands are being a bit naive here, when they lost Myburgh he'd already put them in control, they just needed to make sure they batted out, hopefully they'll see it through but it looks like it'll be closer than it should've been.
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Bugger.
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After the position they got themselves in that was poor from the Netherlands.
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I did worry they'd run out of wickets, they were silly after Myburgh went, the 3rd wicket just after him was incredibly unlucky by the sound of it, but a lot of the rest was down to poor shot selection and trying to score from balls they didn't have to, or in 1 case sneak a run that wasn't on and wasn't needed. Even with all the wickets and the tail in if they'd have got to 20 overs they'd have won after the first performance for the first 6.
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I do think we're going to require a hell of a lot of fortune today.
-
Sounds like we got lucky with one and not so lucky with the other.
-
Dernbach drops Jayawardene which could kill us.
-
2 -1 to them
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3-1 to them
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Dropping Jayawardene is proving very costly. They've got so many wickets here they can launch a massive assault in the second half of the innings.
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yup
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bloody hell
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Our fielding on the whole has been very average.
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does average mean poor
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Yes it does, and it's not good enough. It's going to take some batting effort to win this.
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Bresnan bowling really isn't up to it and he's becoming a liability.
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I don't think we have a chance. I think Broad is a poor captain
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In fairness he can't help the dreadful fielding.
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I do wonder why Bopara isn't bowling though.
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Jayawardene dropped again, well done Bresnan.
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I know but he's too much of a hothead. Can't be making the right decisions when he's like that
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This has been an incredibly ill disciplined performance, we need a huge batting display now.
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Bresnan has been a liability in limited over cricket for ages, Broad cannot do anything about poor fielding, catches win matches so we are getting our arses handed to us again....
got to bat very, very well to win this match.
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4 off Moeen Ali's first over why hasn't he bowled again? Why hasn't Bopara bowled at all? and Bresnan and Dernbach aren't good enough bowlers.
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Jordan finally gets Jayawardene, I do like Jordan he's one player I'd persevere with.
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does average mean poor
Does poor mean fucking disgraceful?
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What I will say is that a poor fielding side tends to reflect the coaching and management of the team. It seems to have continued from the Ashes and doesn't bode well for Giles.
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I think it's time to draw a line under Dernbach and Bresnan.
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yup
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I know people defend Dernbach by saying when he bowls. However for a man who is apparently all about variations, he's had plenty of time to perfect his art and he hasn't. He isn't good enough and that wide followed by 6 sums him up.
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Great penultimate over from Jordan.
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it's allright...Bresnan is on to bowl the last over....just when we need a very tight over..:(
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16 off the last over....190 to win so got to bat extremely well...the Slinger will murder them :(
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Absolutely diabolical from Bresnan. He is fucking uselss, as is Dernbach and neither should play for England again. Bresnan's bowling has clearly gone since his elbow problems. Short of a miracle we have no chance.
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England can do 190 however conditions and batting second under lights means not likely.
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Well Sri Lanka have never lost scoring 160 +. England have massive problems, the fielding was a disgrace. For 'front line' bowlers Bresnan and Dernbach regularly turn in woeful displays. England's best ODI bowler recently has probably been Bopara and he doesn't bowl an over.
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Well Sri Lanka have never lost scoring 160 +. England have massive problems, the fielding was a disgrace. For 'front line' bowlers Bresnan and Dernbach regularly turn in woeful displays. England's best ODI bowler recently has probably been Bopara and he doesn't bowl an over.
indeed strange that Ravi did not get a bowl, Collingwood is the England fielding coach, which after seeing their fielding display certainly surprised me.
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I am sorry but Broad is out of his depth. His bowling selections were poor and ending with Bresnan WTF.
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England can do 190 however conditions and batting second under lights means not likely.
Batting 2nd in these conditions is probably beneficial as the dew increases and the ball comes onto the bat a bit nicer.
The reason we won't do it is because we are shit.
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As I say it's time to end Bresnan's England career. They ended Pietersen's and frankly Bresnan's performances over the last couple of years have been fucking awful on the whole.
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Lumb gone 0/1.....
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What a start, 0-1 off 5 deliveries. English cricket is getting back to 90s standards at the moment.
-
Just checked the score, England are doing well....
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Moeen gone 0/2...
-
This is hilarious, we are so bad at this form of the game.
-
We're so bad at all forms of the game at the moment. Absolutely diabolical, to be honest Giles should be told that his services aren't required now.
-
oh dear...
-
I don't think you can blame Ash
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We're so bad at all forms of the game at the moment. Absolutely diabolical, to be honest Giles should be told that his services aren't required now.
That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater, he has only been there 5 minutes.
We have a major rebuilding job, it is not going to happen over night.
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I don't think you can blame Ash
I'd say as head coach he has a massive hand in the plans in place. Regardless whether you blame him or not, the England team under his charge has done nothing to suggest he's the man for the job.
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We're so bad at all forms of the game at the moment. Absolutely diabolical, to be honest Giles should be told that his services aren't required now.
That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater, he has only been there 5 minutes.
We have a major rebuilding job, it is not going to happen over night.
Not necassarily, I'm not sure what Giles has done to suggest he should get the job.
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There's no way in a million years that Giles should be considered for the Test job.
-
I agree.
-
I don't think we can afford to just let Malinga bowl.
-
If we were chasing anything sensible this would have been a reasonable recovery, but sadly there's too much to do.
-
In all fairness the way we fielded, you can't expect to win.
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In all fairness the way we fielded, you can't expect to win.
No absolutely.
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I take it back, this is great stuff, 25 off the over.
-
Century for Hales with a 6, come on!
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Followed by another maximum!
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This is remarkable stuff, just finish the job England.
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Brilliant! What a way to finish a game.
-
Unbelievable I said it would take a miracle and it did. Alex Hales played an unbelievable innings, incredible. Brilliant from Morgan and Bopara as well, incredible stuff from the batsmen.
-
Get in there!
-
Fuck me sideways, what a win! Well done Hales and England.
-
Wow!
-
SL had not lost a T20 when batting second and scoring over 150, quite the turnaround.
-
I don't think I've ever seen more conflicting sides of the game. We were awful in the field and magnificent with the bat.
-
Well, that was as exciting as tea breaks come.
-
How on earth is our net run rate so poor?
-
How on earth is our net run rate so poor?
Because runs against also count, we only won with three (?) balls to spare remember.
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How on earth is our net run rate so poor?
Because runs against also count, we only won with three (?) balls to spare remember.
I think my bigger issue is how our run rate was impacted by our defeat to NZ.
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How on earth is our net run rate so poor?
Because runs against also count, we only won with three (?) balls to spare remember.
I think my bigger issue is how our run rate was impacted by our defeat to NZ.
Actually yeah, D/L is hard enough to fathom as it is without trying to calculate net run rates from it.
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Good win by England today. Well played. In this form one bad over bowling or great batting over makes a huge difference. That innings by Hales is as good as anything ever seen in Twenty20.
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Missed the game and the score, came onto this thread before checking early on page 21 I assumed we'd been given a bit of a tonking. Getting a couple more posts down and findding we'd won was pleasant, checking on the Beeb and finding it was on the back of one of the best batting performances ever in T20 makes it all the sweeter.
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Missed the game and the score, came onto this thread before checking early on page 21 I assumed we'd been given a bit of a tonking. Getting a couple more posts down and findding we'd won was pleasant, checking on the Beeb and finding it was on the back of one of the best batting performances ever in T20 makes it all the sweeter.
It was the biggest Hyde and Jekyll performance I've ever seen. The bowling and fielding was horrible but the batting was simply brilliant.
-
I'm not the biggest fan of the baseball, but there's certainly some decent entertainment to be had in this T20 World Cup.
Seeing Sammy smack two sixes off two balls to beat the Aussies amused me anyway!
-
Sammy is an unbelievable finisher in this form of the game, he's consistently doing it at the moment. Poor old Aussies haha.
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Sammy is an unbelievable finisher in this form of the game, he's consistently doing it at the moment. Poor old Aussies haha.
Indeed - just said to my Indian supporting colleagues - wait till Sammy comes him. He is the man.
-
Our women are doing okay as well i see.
-
I think it's really important that we bowl Bopara today.
-
Well i see the shit fielding continues unabated
-
For fuck sake be better at fielding
-
Oh FFS
-
How many times does Amla have to time it perfectly for our bowlers to realise that bowling on his pads ain't working?
-
The pitch does look a belter for batting to be fair
-
If there's a fielding coach then he should be ashamed
-
Fucking hell, we actually managed to hold on to one. Still Amla has about 40 runs more than he should have got
-
brilliant fielding from Ravi to get Duminy, good stumping by Buttler as well.
-
Dernbach is a fucking embarrassment
-
Oh just fuck off Jade
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161.3 17.5 overs gonna be chasing another big 'un
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About 200 if Dernbach bowls another over
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really poor from Dernbach but the umpire giving a wide to one that was hit has cost us 8 runs there, will be pretty pissed if this ends up close.
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You'd have thought that the win the other night would have lifted the players.
So why have they looked so lifeless and flat from ball 1?
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Too much to ask of our Batsmen to get the bowlers/fielders out of their self created shit again.
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These full tosses have worked a treat
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Getting a bit funny now our fielding.
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197 to get....do i switch off now????
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probably
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I think the pitch is a bit of a belter to bat on. Just cannot see SA bowling or fielding anywhere near as poorly as we have.
Too much to ask of Hales to do it again.
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Good start with the bat, shame we've lost Lumb but 47-1 after 5 is right on target for the chase.
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I'm keeping my mouth shut...kiss of death me
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Bresnan and Dernbach are comfortably two of the worst seamers at this tournament.
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So we lost by 3 after Rod Tucker being incapable of hearing a nick on the toe of the bat cost us 8 runs, great.
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We lost because the selectors haven't got a clue. Well done to the batting, it's fired pretty well this tournament but been badly let down by sub standard bowlers and terrible fielding.
Please, never select Dernbach and Bresnan in T20's again. Be broad minded, their are much better players in domestic cricket that those 2.
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If concede 190 and then 197 consecutively you're never going to win enough games. Dernbach is never ever good enough.
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this ^ just this ^
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I'm sorry but enough is enough, talk about Dernbach's variations all you want but he's failed too many times. 3 overs for 44, if he'd managed anything respectable we would have one. His England career should be over. England have gone out because our bowling isn't good enough, and whilst he wasn't bad today Bresnan should go as well.
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How bad does Dernbach have to be to be dropped ?
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I can't stand his soppy tattoos and hair either.
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Time's up for Dernbach all the talk for of his variations just hasn't come to fruition and it's time to move on. I think Bresnan should go as well, the bowling has cost us in this tournament, no doubt.
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Dernbach was terrible in his 3rd over and his fielding is weak. I still think he's a better bowler than most seem to think but he's had a stinker in this tournament.
In real terms I want my bowlers aiming for 1-2 wickets a match and an average economy of 7.5 or better, get around that area with 3-4 bowlers and you'll dominate in t20. Jordan, Broad and Tredwell all offer that, Bopara offers it but doesn't get a look in. I'm happy with Ali and Root as option bowlers so 1 more front line bowler would be enough. If Dernbach can get to his best form I think he's a good shout for that place but we really need to look at some other options as well. Rankin obviously got his chance (which was fully deserved on his figures in the short forms) but hasnt been able to follow up on it but there are 2-3 others who've been doing very well in the domestic league. We really need a few English bowlers in the IPL and BigBash though to get used to other conditions.
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I agree 1-2 wickets per match and an economy of under 7.5 per over makes a good Twenty20 bowler. However Bresnan and Dernbach don't offer that and enough is enough, they are not the future, they haven't performed in the present and we need to move on. Let's look at it, the batsmen have done well in this tournament, but we've conceded 189, 197 and 50 + in 5 overs which tells you the bowlers aren't performing. There's a couple of reasons for that, firstly Bresnan and Dernbach simply aren't good enough and secondly Broad isn't bowling the right bowlers.
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"I like to give someone a good long run but this lad at the moment - he doesn't bat much, he's not had a great tournament in the field, so he's going to have to be a seriously good bowler if he's going to play in this side and from what we've seen in the last year he hasn't nailed death bowling at all.'
I think Nasser Hussain's opinion of Dernbach sums him up.
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If England sort their bowling line up then they've got a decent side. Most countries tend to use their best bowlers in all formats, and regardless of recent form there is no-one who can seriously say Dernbach is a better option than Anderson.
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Time's up for Dernbach all the talk for of his variations just hasn't come to fruition and it's time to move on. I think Bresnan should go as well, the bowling has cost us in this tournament, no doubt.
Agree and I can't really understand why Dernbach in particular was persevered with in this game (although I accept that there weren't too many other options in the squad). We were unlucky that the NZ game cost us so dearly, but can't help but wonder if things might have been different with Pietersen batting at three.
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Batting wasn't the issue it was all bowling.
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Fine margins though, the NZ game could easily have been called before we finished our 5th over which would forced a draw. Yesterday Tucker completely missed a Dernbach one clipping the bottom of the at and gave it as wide, with the 1st extra ball from that being another wide and then the last being a 6, those 8 runs were enough to change the game.
So, whilst our bowling and fielding hasn't been great it's been as good as SA and SL and who knows what would've happened in the NZ game, but even then, I think NZ and WI are the 2 best sides in T20 right now, losing to them isn't as shameful as most seem to think, I reckon there's very little between the next 6-7 sides, one of which is us.
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So we lost by 3 after Rod Tucker being incapable of hearing a nick on the toe of the bat cost us 8 runs, great.
Come on I know stats show 3 runs but going into the last two overs we were a long way behind. In any case rather than blaming Tucker how about Moeen Ali dropped catch? Gave them 4 runs and de Villiers stayed to get a few more.
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Or Dernbach going for 15 an over, it's not like it's a one off. The bloke must give a great blowjob.
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or Dernbach conceding 26 in one over !
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It's not shameful at all, but our bowling isn't up to it. You get wides and no-balls that are dubious, it doesn't excuse the next ball going for 6. Like I said the reality is in two games we've been chasing over 190 and no other teams have faced that and it's down to the bowling. Hopefully this will be the end of Dernbach and Bresnan. Bresnan used to be a good bowler but he isn't anymore and Dernbach never has been.
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Changing the subject for a moment ....how wonderful to see Aussies thrashed this afternoon all out for 86 losing by 73 runs - that is one hell of a beating!!!!
Shame we couldn't do it.
Yes fukc Dernbach off!!!
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And of course Aussies Played 3 Lost 3.....lovely
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And of course Aussies Played 3 Lost 3.....lovely
Not quite the world beaters we made them look to be.
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Changing the subject for a moment ....how wonderful to see Aussies thrashed this afternoon all out for 86 losing by 73 runs - that is one hell of a beating!!!!
I would like to see a completion with the Dutch beating them in the final match.
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Changing the subject for a moment ....how wonderful to see Aussies thrashed this afternoon all out for 86 losing by 73 runs - that is one hell of a beating!!!!
I would like to see a completion with the Dutch beating them in the final match.
It's us thats got the Netherlands they have Bangladesh to play
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So we lost by 3 after Rod Tucker being incapable of hearing a nick on the toe of the bat cost us 8 runs, great.
Come on I know stats show 3 runs but going into the last two overs we were a long way behind. In any case rather than blaming Tucker how about Moeen Ali dropped catch? Gave them 4 runs and de Villiers stayed to get a few more.
That catch was our own fault though, that's the point.
or Dernbach conceding 26 in one over !
That was the over where the poor decision happened, turning a poor over giving away 18 into a catastrophic one.
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Changing the subject for a moment ....how wonderful to see Aussies thrashed this afternoon all out for 86 losing by 73 runs - that is one hell of a beating!!!!
I would like to see a completion with the Dutch beating them in the final match.
It's us thats got the Netherlands they have Bangladesh to play
Oh they will definitely lose that.
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Dernbach dropped, good.
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Dernbach dropped, good.
Crack open the Champagne. Shame the decision is made when it no longer matters.
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Rough start this Ali's bowling is sitting up on this pitch at the moment.
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Not a particularly good start here.
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We look complacent here, that's as bad an over as I've seen Jordan bowl.
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Super over from Broad, he's become our best bowler in all formats.
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Bopara's bowling is just showing how crazy it is that we haven't bowled him in every game. What we have lacked in this tournament is the ability to take wickets.
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Bopara isn't a wicket taker though, he got one today because their slogger tried to hit him out of the park and it dropped short, they're useful wickets and his reduced pace will always bring a chance of catches in the deep but he's in, and should bowl 3-4 overs every time, because he bowls a steady line and length that is difficult to score big from. Tredwell offers the same and it's the same thing that Bresnan brought to the test team.
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Strangling the life out of them.
If we can find 2 bowlers somewhere (Not sure about Jordan just yet) then this is the makings of a good t20 team.
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Jordan really impresses me and he'll be very good.
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Bopara isn't a wicket taker though, he got one today because their slogger tried to hit him out of the park and it dropped short, they're useful wickets and his reduced pace will always bring a chance of catches in the deep but he's in, and should bowl 3-4 overs every time, because he bowls a steady line and length that is difficult to score big from. Tredwell offers the same and it's the same thing that Bresnan brought to the test team.
Oh I completely agree, I wasn't really referring to Bopara on the wicket taking front more England as a team.
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Won't matter here but Buttler needs to cut out this bad errors with his glove work.
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Anyone convinced by Buttler behind the stumps? lol
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Strangling the life out of them.
If we can find 2 bowlers somewhere (Not sure about Jordan just yet) then this is the makings of a good t20 team.
I completely disagree on Jordan, he's the most exciting bowler we've had come through for years, I suspect he'll be in the test team by the winter, good with the bat, quick, bowls a good line and is an exceptional fielder. Him, Overton and Stokes will be a key part of the england squad for the next 7-8 years in my opinion.
Won't matter here but Buttler needs to cut out this bad errors with his glove work.
I agree, the frustrating thing is that his keeping is usually excellent (he's a far better keeper than Prior was at that age) but he ruins it with errors like this one.
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Yeah Overton and Jordan look excellent.
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Hmm not a good start here.
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Anyone convinced by Buttler behind the stumps? lol
As directly below your question, he's a better keeper than Prior was at 23 under-pinned by the fact that's he's got great reflexes and agility, there was one in the SA game that he got a glove to, stopping a 4, which was genuinely exceptional fielding. Very few keepers (in any sport) are technically ready for international level competition until 25-26 so you have to expect mistakes from them.
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32-4 this is serious now.
Not looking good for Ashley Giles' job prospects.
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This is desperate stuff at the moment.
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Terrible from Buttler.
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One of those times where I'm pretty glad I can't watch the game. We really need a few overs from this pair now, if they can stay together for 6-7 overs the rate is still low enough that we don't need to do anything silly, we know we've got guys who can score at 10-11 an over in the last 5 so just work our way into range without losing more wickets and we'll still be fine, pretty embarrassing collapse but they did this to SA as well so they're no mugs.
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Bopara should have been gone.
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Bresnan run out, terrible stuff. At the moment this is amateur.
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This is pathetic.
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They can't let Giles anywhere near the coaches job after the spineless performances that we've put in during one day and T20 games since the start of the year. His win ratio is shocking.
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This has been fucking diabolical.
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Ashley Giles has been taking inspiration from Tim Sherwood.
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No boundaries in 60 balls (and we're not finished) is pretty damning.
They hold their catches those Dutch boys.
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Fuck off Giles you company man.
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Fecking woeful
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Well I think that should end any hopes Giles had, worst winter in history of English cricket. There aren't actually words to describe how bad that was. The closest I can get is shameful and pathetic. The new chief exec is already under massive pressure, we're an utter mess.
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18th defeat of the winter.
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To lose by 45 runs to the Netherlands just sums this present England team up .Pathetic !!!
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David Lloyd is about as angry as me, English cricket has genuinely fallen apart this winter.
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Broad isn't defending it at least.
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English cricket is in real trouble, and I'm not really sure what to do. Our fielding has been fucking terrible for 6 months, most of the bowling shambolic and other than a couple of innings the batting has been fucking terrible.
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To go 64 balls without scoring a boundary is a startling stat. That's more than half of a full T20 innings. We are dire.
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All the pundits are furious.
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I have deliberately waited before i offered my views on this debacle as i wanted to give a constructive, well thought opinions, well i have now recovered and will put my views into print!
FOR FUCK'S SAKE THIS IS SIMPLY NOT FUCKIN GOOD ENOUGH YOU SPINELESS BUNCH OF TOSSERS, FOR FUCK'S SAKE DEFEAT TO FUCKIN NETHERLANDS NOT ONCE BUT FUCKIN TWICE.
IT'S A FUCKIN DISGRACE.
FIELDING - DISGRACEFUL, BOWLING - DISGRACEFUL, BATTING - ESPESCIALLY IN THIS GAME DISGRACEFUL!!!
TALK ABOUT A WINTER OF DISCONTENT!!!!
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Just listened to the Sri Lankan national anthem ....it's sounds like a Finnish entry to the Eurovision Song contest!!!!!
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Just listened to the Sri Lankan national anthem ....it's sounds like a Finnish entry to the Eurovision Song contest!!!!!
I heard the Bangladeshi anthem yesterday. It sounded like the soundtrack from the neighbourhood Curry house.
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I wonder how the ecb will blame this on KP...
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I wonder how the ecb will blame this on KP...
His mate Piers has been spreading discontent via twitter into the dressing room.
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I wonder how the ecb will blame this on KP...
In spite of the joke it's a reasonable point, the way the ECB dealt with the Ashes debacle suggested that it was pretty much solely KP's fault. They're going to struggle to blame the lack of spirit and desire on him now.
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Fuck off Giles you company man.
Wasn't Giles out there at the crease
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Joke of a team at the moment.
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England cricket team and Man Utd football team together I've never known anyone go from top to absolute shit so quickly
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Fuck off Giles you company man.
Wasn't Giles out there at the crease
Doing a good job isn't he.
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NZ have made an England like mess of this.
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Fuck off Giles you company man.
Wasn't Giles out there at the crease
Doing a good job isn't he.
players are more to blame
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NZ are doing an England, 23-4. They're mesmerised by Herath who's just bowled a double wicket maiden.
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What a game though between Black Caps and Sri Lanka who were all out for 119, game over you would think they way NZ can bat.
Then Brendon McCallum and Ross Taylor Neeshan all go for ducks 23-4 Herath three wickets, superb stuff.
Also Corey Anderson won't bat cos of dislocated finger!!!
Herath 2 overs 2 maidens 3 wkts
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What a game though between Black Caps and Sri Lanka who were all out for 119, game over you would think they way NZ can bat.
Then Brendon McCallum and Ross Taylor Neeshan all go for ducks 23-4 Herath three wickets, superb stuff.
Also Corey Anderson won't bat cos of dislocated finger!!!
Herath 2 overs 2 maidens 3 wkts
There's a claim on Twitter that consecutive wicket maidens has never happened before in T20
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Fantastic bowling by Herath 4- 1
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Quote '' Herath is over New Zealand like a rash''
29-5 Herath 2.3 4-1 incredible,
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Quote '' Herath is over New Zealand like a rash''
29-5 Herath 2.3 4-1 incredible,
Although I've never really took to T20, I do enjoy a special performance by a bowler or a batsman.
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I'm the same, I can't get worked up about a game of hit and run but really enjoyed the Sri Lanka v New Zealand game, the low scoring games tend to be the more exciting.
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Between them, Herath and Senanayake bowled 6.3 overs and took 7 for 6
Herath 3.3-2-3-5
Senanayake 3-0-3-2
Stunning figures.
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I'm the same, I can't get worked up about a game of hit and run but really enjoyed the Sri Lanka v New Zealand game, the low scoring games tend to be the more exciting.
Hmmmm... I think the ICC betting panel need to check this one out!
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Just listened to the Sri Lankan national anthem ....it's sounds like a Finnish entry to the Eurovision Song contest!!!!!
It sounds like England play cricket!
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I have deliberately waited before i offered my views on this debacle as i wanted to give a constructive, well thought opinions, well i have now recovered and will put my views into print!
FOR FUCK'S SAKE THIS IS SIMPLY NOT FUCKIN GOOD ENOUGH YOU SPINELESS BUNCH OF TOSSERS, FOR FUCK'S SAKE DEFEAT TO FUCKIN NETHERLANDS NOT ONCE BUT FUCKIN TWICE.
IT'S A FUCKIN DISGRACE.
FIELDING - DISGRACEFUL, BOWLING - DISGRACEFUL, BATTING - ESPESCIALLY IN THIS GAME DISGRACEFUL!!!
TALK ABOUT A WINTER OF DISCONTENT!!!!
I regard this as very constructive and well thought through opinion ;D
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I wonder how the ecb will blame this on KP...
In spite of the joke it's a reasonable point, the way the ECB dealt with the Ashes debacle suggested that it was pretty much solely KP's fault. They're going to struggle to blame the lack of spirit and desire on him now.
I meant it in both ways, he was clearly made the scapegoat for the ashes regardless of what they said, he was never the main problem though, just an easy target.
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I have deliberately waited before i offered my views on this debacle as i wanted to give a constructive, well thought opinions, well i have now recovered and will put my views into print!
FOR FUCK'S SAKE THIS IS SIMPLY NOT FUCKIN GOOD ENOUGH YOU SPINELESS BUNCH OF TOSSERS, FOR FUCK'S SAKE DEFEAT TO FUCKIN NETHERLANDS NOT ONCE BUT FUCKIN TWICE.
IT'S A FUCKIN DISGRACE.
FIELDING - DISGRACEFUL, BOWLING - DISGRACEFUL, BATTING - ESPESCIALLY IN THIS GAME DISGRACEFUL!!!
TALK ABOUT A WINTER OF DISCONTENT!!!!
I regard this as very constructive and well thought through opinion ;D
I wish he would stop sitting on the fence and tell us what he really thinks.
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Now Carberry has a pop:
Carberry Has His Say (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/733211.html)
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I'm pretty glad to see that, I want them questioning the decision to focus the blame on KP, the younger players in particular always had good things to say about him, it just seems that the more experienced players who weren't performing to standard had a problem with him and they've got their way and had him kicked out.
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Yep it sounds exactly like that, which is pathetic and frankly we're still apalling.
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I've added a poll about the new coach.
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The poll is very good but only 3 possibly 4 of the people have actually applied for the job
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The poll is very good but only 3 possibly 4 of the people have actually applied for the job
I know. I based it on the fact that Betfair are offering odds on all of them.
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I agree with Allan Lamb, the ECB has a shed load of money and they should do their very best to get the best candidate available. If they have reservations, then offer a suitable monetary package to encourage them.
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I agree with Allan Lamb, the ECB has a shed load of money and they should do their very best to get the best candidate available. If they have reservations, then offer a suitable monetary package to encourage them.
That isnt going to work though is it Paul as Kirsten can earn what the ECB will offer him for 2/3 months work in the IPL so why would he take the England job which is 12 months a year travelling all over the world
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It doesn't have to be Kirsten though, there aren't that many coaches in the IPL. I'm sure the England coaching job is still a pretty high profile role and the ECB can afford to have a salary that is attractive.
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Who they choose doesn't matter al lthat much so long as the requirements they set are suitable. If Giles, despite recent events, is the best candidate based on those then I'm ok with it. If Giles gets the job because he's already involved and they like him then we're in the shit.
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It doesn't have to be Kirsten though, there aren't that many coaches in the IPL. I'm sure the England coaching job is still a pretty high profile role and the ECB can afford to have a salary that is attractive.
Its very high profile but its more or less full time with a lot of travelling and all the money in the world does not appear to have enticed a lot of applicants as it looks like its between Gilo, Newell and Moores........
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It doesn't have to be Kirsten though, there aren't that many coaches in the IPL. I'm sure the England coaching job is still a pretty high profile role and the ECB can afford to have a salary that is attractive.
Its very high profile but its more or less full time with a lot of travelling and all the money in the world does not appear to have enticed a lot of applicants as it looks like its between Gilo, Newell and Moores........
That's worrying. Giles looks out of his depth, Newell is inexperienced at International level and Moores wasn't a popular coach last time around.
We need an innovator; someone who will encourage us to lead and not follow. Too many times we've been left behind whilst other teams pioneer new playing styles/tactics.
It's Kirsten for me or if he won't come Tom Moody.
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I don't think inexperience at international level should count against Newell, he's done very well with Notts which is all he can be judged on. As I say, if they meet with him and his vision for what needs to be done is the best fit then I'm happy, I just don't want them to make the easy decision, like they did with KP, better the wrong decision for the right reasons.
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I don't think inexperience at international level should count against Newell, he's done very well with Notts which is all he can be judged on. As I say, if they meet with him and his vision for what needs to be done is the best fit then I'm happy, I just don't want them to make the easy decision, like they did with KP, better the wrong decision for the right reasons.
I disagree, it should count against him. The England job is one of the biggest in world cricket and international experience is a must. I'd rather see Duncan Fletcher back before Newell.
Newell is a good, solid county coach who produces consistently good teams. For me, a lack of international experience as a player and a coach should rule him out.
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Thing is it's not just the coach it's the whole culture that needs changing. There seems to be a core of senior players and if you're not in with them, then you're out. That is completely counter productive as has been highlighted by KP's dismissal. Carberry's revelations back that up, that if you're not in that select group then you're effectively on your own. That culture is completely unacceptable, England need a culture of performance being rewarded regardless of your personality. We should be able to manage different personalities, not just try and mould everyone into clones. There is something very wrong with the team at the moment.
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There is something very wrong with the team at the moment.
I agree. There appear to be deep-seated problems. It's funny how the issues never surfaced when we were beating all and sundry in our march to the summit of world cricket. We beat India at Edbaston in August 2011 to claim the test "mace". Perversely we were rated the number one ODI side around the same time. We've gone backwards since then and the problems have surfaced.
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Thing is it's not just the coach it's the whole culture that needs changing. There seems to be a core of senior players and if you're not in with them, then you're out. That is completely counter productive as has been highlighted by KP's dismissal. Carberry's revelations back that up, that if you're not in that select group then you're effectively on your own. That culture is completely unacceptable, England need a culture of performance being rewarded regardless of your personality. We should be able to manage different personalities, not just try and mould everyone into clones. There is something very wrong with the team at the moment.
Who are you saying this core/select group of players is Paul..........you can only mean Cook, Bell, Broad and Jimmy is that right ?
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82 runs of the last 5 overs by the Windies. That was some violent hitting.
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Thing is it's not just the coach it's the whole culture that needs changing. There seems to be a core of senior players and if you're not in with them, then you're out. That is completely counter productive as has been highlighted by KP's dismissal. Carberry's revelations back that up, that if you're not in that select group then you're effectively on your own. That culture is completely unacceptable, England need a culture of performance being rewarded regardless of your personality. We should be able to manage different personalities, not just try and mould everyone into clones. There is something very wrong with the team at the moment.
Who are you saying this core/select group of players is Paul..........you can only mean Cook, Bell, Broad and Jimmy is that right ?
I think Prior is in there as well, I know he was dropped but it was suggested he dropped himself as much as anything.
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Darren Sammy really is brilliant.
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There is something very wrong with the team at the moment.
I agree. There appear to be deep-seated problems. It's funny how the issues never surfaced when we were beating all and sundry in our march to the summit of world cricket. We beat India at Edbaston in August 2011 to claim the test "mace". Perversely we were rated the number one ODI side around the same time. We've gone backwards since then and the problems have surfaced.
I know you can't highlight one moment when it all started to go wrong, but I remember when we slipped from number 1 spot and Flower was asked is there the desire to get back and he said something along the lines of, 'not really we've achieved that now.' That symbolised the beginning of the end, because you should always want to be and remain at number 1.
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There is something very wrong with the team at the moment.
I agree. There appear to be deep-seated problems. It's funny how the issues never surfaced when we were beating all and sundry in our march to the summit of world cricket. We beat India at Edbaston in August 2011 to claim the test "mace". Perversely we were rated the number one ODI side around the same time. We've gone backwards since then and the problems have surfaced.
I know you can't highlight one moment when it all started to go wrong, but I remember when we slipped from number 1 spot and Flower was asked is there the desire to get back and he said something along the lines of, 'not really we've achieved that now.' That symbolised the beginning of the end, because you should always want to be and remain at number 1.
I think that's a fundamental issue with sport in this country. We saw it with the rugby guys after RWC 2003; the side that won the Ashes in 2005 and now this current crop of players.
They work hard with the desired aim of reaching a shared goal. Sir Clive was obsessed with winning the RWC and Vaughan/Fletcher were planning for the 2005 Ashes for about two years beforehand. Strauss and Flower both stated a desire to be the number one test nation. They achieve it and sit back, safe in the knowledge that they're made for life on the after dinner speech circuit.
Contrast that with the Aussies who don't seem to rest on their laurels and want to build a sporting legacy of success. This is a winning mentality that comes from a positive sporting culture.
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Yes I agree there does seem to be something about our sporting culture, but it's up to those sports teams to change that. The England cricket team has hit absolute rock bottom and now need to rebuild with a fresh start. That means no more cliques, it needs to be a positive and supportive team environment.
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Yes I agree there does seem to be something about our sporting culture, but it's up to those sports teams to change that. The England cricket team has hit absolute rock bottom and now need to rebuild with a fresh start. That means no more cliques, it needs to be a positive and supportive team environment.
Like what the English rugby team now appears to be.
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The rugby comparison isn't really fair, there was a lot more to the 'fall' than simply resting on their laurels, half the squad retired within 2 years, a couple spent a few years struggling with injuries and it was on the backdrop of a shift from amateur to professional clubs and all the upheaval from that. We lost a generation due to the change but implemented a very solid academy structure which has taken 9-10years to show the rewards but we're now an incredibly strong squad with a genuine chance for the world cup next year and every year we're getting stronger, with 4-5 world class players appearing each season. If cricket can learn from that and develop a similar structure then this current drop in form will prove to be well worth it.
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It annoyed me to see Cook say that getting rid of KP 'took guts'. Not really Alastair, creating a scapegoat rather than confronting the real issues doesn't take guts at all, it's pretty cowardly.
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Kevin Pietersen axing took a lot of guts, says Alastair Cook
Test captain Alastair Cook says it took "a lot of guts and consideration" to end Kevin Pietersen's England career.
Cook, 29, who was influential in the batsman's exit in February, said England's dressing room would be stronger without the batsman.
Speaking about Pietersen's axing for the first time, Cook told the BBC: "We all know how important team culture and team unity is.
"It was obviously a very big and important decision."
Pietersen, 33, England's all-time leading run-scorer across all formats, was told of the decision by the England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB) on 4 February.
The South African-born cricketer scored 8,181 runs at an average of 47.28 in 104 Tests, in addition to 4,440 runs in 136 one-day internationals and 1,176 runs in 37 Twenty20s.
Cook was part of a three-man panel who told him of their decision after England's disastrous 5-0 Ashes whitewash in Australia, and he expects the reasons to be made public soon.
"I know things will become clearer in a little bit of time," he said. "I know it is frustrating. It is frustrating for me because I have not totally been able to tell my side of the story. People just have to be a little bit patient."
Cook has pledged to work with the new head coach to restore England's fortunes after a disappointing winter, including Ashes defeat and an early World Twenty20 exit in Bangladesh.
Andy Flower resigned as team director in January after the Ashes defeat.
Flower split coaching duties with limited-overs coach Ashley Giles in 2012 and focused on the Test side, but the England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB) want the new head coach to be responsible for the national team in all formats of the game.
Giles says he wants the job but Cook accepts the ECB may look beyond the former Warwickshire director of cricket, who this year has overseen a 4-1 one-day and 3-0 T20 series defeats in Australia and a group stage exit from the World Twenty20.
"Me, the new coach and the senior players have a responsibility to take this new England side forward," Cook said.
"The arguments are each and all. Someone from the domestic game knows the England side very well and that gives him an advantage. But if they have a totally fresh outlook from not being involved, you have that side of the coin as well. You are looking for the best candidate and best coach.
"Now the winter has gone and we are at the start of a new era. Clearly it has only just finished and the dust hasn't quite settled on the Twenty20 but we have to regroup."
Meanwhile, England batting coach Graham Gooch was also asked about the future of English cricket after a disappointing winter.
He told BBC Sport: "I don't know what will be going on until the new coach is appointed. I continue to work with the players and the England set-up and keep working until we find out what happened.
"Whoever is appointed as coach will have his own ideas, his vision of England cricket. The team that has performed for England did brilliantly in winning Ashes three times, reaching number one, but that team is being dismantled. Things move, you have to move on and rebuild."
Gooch, England's all-time leading run-scorer with 8,900 in 118 Tests, also backed captain Cook.
"He is the best man to captain England," he said. "He will come to be a lot stronger after what has happened. It is not that important if you get knocked down, it is how you get up that counts.
"He is a fighter, he is the best England player I have ever worked with. He has been a model professional, is disciplined and will put his body on the line for his country.
"If you wanted an ideal role model as a cricketer, Alastair Cook would be that man. He is certainly the future of English cricket."
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Never heard of this bloke but he seems worth considering
New South Wales coach Trevor Bayliss has the man-management skills to lead England, says former Australia fast bowler Geoff Lawson.
Bayliss, 51, is among the leading contenders to land a new position as head of all senior England teams following Andy Flower's departure.
"England no doubt feel a new coach will need to manage a few people and that is his real strength," Lawson said.
"He's relaxed, calming and able to get the best out of players."
Trevor Bayliss
Born: Goulburn, New South Wales, 21 December 1962
First-class career: 58 matches, 3,060 runs, average 35.58, wickets 8, bowling average 26.50
Coaching highlights: Reached 2011 World Cup final with Sri Lanka, won inaugural Big Bash League in Australia in 2012 with Sydney Sixers and the Indian Premier League with Kolkata Knight Riders.
He added: "He never gets overly excited or overly depressed by the game or by performances and he's got great knowledge."
England batsman Michael Carberry, who played in all five Tests during last winter's Ashes whitewash in Australia, has criticised the man-management skills of the England coaches.
Lawson, 56, was instrumental in New South Wales' appointment of fellow Australian Bayliss, who arrived as coach in 2013 after leading Sri Lanka to a narrow defeat in the 2011 World Cup final and winning the Indian Premier League title with Kolkata Knight Riders in 2012.
Bayliss also coaches the Sydney Sixers in the Big Bash League, Australia's Twenty20 competition, winning the inaugural competition in 2012.
England and Wales Cricket Board chief executive David Collier and managing director Paul Downton will meet with candidates for the position of England head coach in the week beginning 14 April, with a shortlist also understood to include Lancashire coach Peter Moores - the former England coach - and Nottinghamshire director of cricket Mick Newell.
England limited-overs coach Ashley Giles, who ended their failed World Twenty20 campaign on Monday with a shock defeat by the Netherlands, is also regarded as one of the favourites for the role.
New South Wales said there was an "initial approach" by the ECB, and that Bayliss was "willing to listen to them if they approach him again".
Lawson, who played 48 Tests between 1980 and 1989, said Bayliss would want the option to recall former England batsman Kevin Pietersen, who was sacked following the 5-0 Ashes whitewash by Australia, should he be appointed.
"That would be a big part of any equation," Lawson said in an interview carried by Cricket Australia's website. "As any head coach in international cricket these days, you've got to have control in what happens around you.
"It's like being made the boss of a business. If they give you staff you're not happy with and they don't do the job, the business crashes, so all those things would need to be in place."
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If West Indies Women had got themselves all out after ten overs, West Indies Men would still have a chance to win this!
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Bayliss is a new name to me too. His record seems pretty good so I'd like to see him given a go.
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I know this is going to make me sound like a terrible old sexist but... I never watch women's cricket, as I'm under doctors orders to rest up and am bored I found myself watching a bit of the T20 semi final. In all the thousands of hours of watching or playing cricket I've never seen anything as laughably bad as the run out I've just seen.
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Bayliss is a new name to me too. His record seems pretty good so I'd like to see him given a go.
The bloke who invented the wind-up radio ?
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The girls doing really well though - chasing 101 they are currently 66 - 0 10 overs 35 to win
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The girls doing really well though - chasing 101 they are currently 66 - 0 10 overs 35 to win
Kiss of death - Charlotte Edwards C&B by a nice fit looking 18 yr old 72-1
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England Ladies win by 9 wickets with 19 balls remaining......meeting the old enemy in the final
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I know this is going to make me sound like a terrible old sexist but... I never watch women's cricket, as I'm under doctors orders to rest up and am bored I found myself watching a bit of the T20 semi final. In all the thousands of hours of watching or playing cricket I've never seen anything as laughably bad as the run out I've just seen.
It was brilliant wasn't it
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2nd semi looking like being a good game Saffers on 127-3 off 15 if they get 170/180 it could be a cracker
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Good semi developing between SA and India
SA 129-4 15.3 overs but just lost AB DeVilliers 10
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India need 173 to make the final
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I know this is going to make me sound like a terrible old sexist but... I never watch women's cricket, as I'm under doctors orders to rest up and am bored I found myself watching a bit of the T20 semi final. In all the thousands of hours of watching or playing cricket I've never seen anything as laughably bad as the run out I've just seen.
It was brilliant wasn't it
It was, I couldn't quite believe what I was seeing!
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I don't particularly like Kohli, but he's a hell of a player.
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We are gong to have to cheer the wimmin on whether we like it or not, they are playing Australia in the final.
If it was Wednesbury U-9's tiddlywinks team versus some team from Australia I'd be cheering them on.
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We are gong to have to cheer the wimmin on whether we like it or not, they are playing Australia in the final.
If it was Wednesbury U-9's tiddlywinks team versus some team from Australia I'd be cheering them on.
Plus the captain is quite fit......
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One down. Quite appropriate that the convicts have a player called Villani.
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Well done Sri Lanka. Great bowling performance. India win every game with ease and than duck it up in the final .....hahaha
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Peter Moores should have the England job. Harshly treated when he was in the job.
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See I said Sri Lanka were a good shout before the start of the tournament. They had a great balance.
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Morgan and Sam Robson had a bad day if they want to push for the Test side.
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Promising that Prior has scored a century and especially good to hear that Finn is bowling well, maybe a break has sorted him out.
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Finn seems to have found his mojo again.
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Looks like it's Moores. Wish I'd put money on it now. Having said that I haven't a clue how to place a bet.
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Yeah it'll be interesting to see how he handles it.
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I find Moore's appointment to be a little bit meh.
I hope that he succeeds and that he's managed to overcome the problems that he caused when he was coach last time. The Pietersen problem was the tip of the iceberg. At one time or another he fell out with most of the senior pros. He was poor tactically and lost the dressing room. He did some good things but the problems were never far away.
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It is a little bit meh, it's up to him now to show he's developed.
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At least it's not Gilo. That would have sent the worst of messages.
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A lot of the test squad or those on the edge making some statements at the start of this season
Cook
Bell
Prior
Anderson
Jordan
Onions
Robson
Chopra
Morgan
Balance
Carberry
Finn
All in the runs or taking wickets.
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It's quite a coup to get Sri Lanka's head coach as our assistant coach. He's very highly rated and hopefully he'll develop our game.
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Gooch has stood down as a batting coach.
Whilst this was always likely to happen under a new coaching regime I think he should have gone regardless of the results over the winter as our batting has been awful for quite a while now.
I wonder if Thorpe will step up from his position as limited overs batting coach?
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Gooch has been given his marching orders, about time.
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I find it bizarre that we've climbed to third in the Test rankings after losing our last 5 Test matches heavily.
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I find it bizarre that we've climbed to third in the Test rankings after losing our last 5 Test matches heavily.
I think the rankings are updated after all series in a specific period rather than after individual tests.
After England went to the top of the ratings in 2011, we lost the next series yet were still at the top of the rankings.
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Good news on Gooch going,time for Thorpe to step up.
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Gooch had to go, our batting has gone backwards since he joined the coaching team.
I think we need to review the bowling and fielding coaching as well. The bowlers are great in the right conditions but we need to work on doing stuff when it's not going their way, only Broad offers anything in batting conditions at the minute.
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I'd give Saker a chance to redeem himself, as up to the Ashes tour he'd done alright. Gooch had failed from the moment he joined the side. The most exciting appointment is Farbrace, it's a real coup getting him.
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I'd give Saker a chance to redeem himself, as up to the Ashes tour he'd done alright. Gooch had failed from the moment he joined the side. The most exciting appointment is Farbrace, it's a real coup getting him.
I agree that's why I said review, in a 'look at what they're doing well and what needs to improve' way.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/27177518
Maybe Gooch should give Wirral CC thirds a few batting lessons!
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Squad named:
Meet the new guard, same as the old guard (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/741013.html)
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I'm glad they didn't recall Finn yet, he has done really well for Middlesex and needs to keep that up. I'm surprised Woakes is in, but glad to see Ali, Jordan retained and interesting to see if Gurney plays.
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I'm glad they didn't recall Finn yet, he has done really well for Middlesex and needs to keep that up. I'm surprised Woakes is in, but glad to see Ali, Jordan retained and interesting to see if Gurney plays.
I'd like to have seen a few more interesting selections. Is Anderson really the future of one day Cricket in this country?
As it stands there were more new selectors in the meeting room than new players in the squad.
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KP's struggles continue in IPL out for a first ball duck today b Sharma
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So the new management of England starts today, it'll be interesting to see if there's any indication of a change in strategy.
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So the new management of England starts today, it'll be interesting to see if there's any indication of a change in strategy.
Ideally you wouldn't want a rained off game in Aberdeen!
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Well yes.
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Jordan's lower order hitting is great.
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Congratulations to our very own Ian Bell. Today he overtook Alec Stewart to become England's second highest one day scorer. Another 408 would see him pass Paul Collingwood to become number 1
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Well done Ian Bell. Annoying to see we lost Woakes for the game against Middlesex,so that he could carry the drinks out to the players again
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Well done Ian Bell. Annoying to see we lost Woakes for the game against Middlesex,so that he could carry the drinks out to the players again
In hindsight it hardly mattered did it?
If being with England, surrounded by better players improves his game then the Bears will benefit.
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Carberry and Bresnan back in the ODI and 20/20 squads, not too happy about the latter. Also I get the impression that Moores doesn't rate Ali too much as he's dropped out of the ODI squad.
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Carberry and Bresnan back in the ODI and 20/20 squads, not too happy about the latter. Also I get the impression that Moores doesn't rate Ali too much as he's dropped out of the ODI squad.
Very surprised at Carberry's selection. I thought his chance had gone.
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Quite like what Middlesex have done today playing two T20 Blast home games on the same day, seems as though there is a fair crowd in for the 2 games,
game 1 Middx v Essex commencing now,noon then 16:00 game 2 Middx v Sussex.
I daresay this is only due to all the international commitments for Lords and had to find time within the schedule.
Expecting 15000+
Monty Panesar opening bowling for Essex - his first T20 game in 3 years.
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Middx 180-5 in their 20.
Some exciting stuff from Eoin Morgan 77 i think 9 x 4's 4 x 6's.
He wasn't top scorer though, that went to Dawad Malan 85 but not so quick.
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Kieswetter is looking good again, he should be in and amongst the wicketkeeper options.
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I rate Jordan but that was an awful penultimate over.
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I rate Jordan but that was an awful penultimate over.
I thought that there were a lot of good things in our performance in the field. Gurney bowled intelligently for a debutant and our ground fielding was good. We need to take those sharp chances though.
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Gurney was excellent, and there was more energy in the field. The catching was shocking though.
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Batting is going nowhere at the moment.
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Poor decision from Root, no need to chase one behind his legs.
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This is a really poor batting display at the moment.
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Whatever happens in this game having Bell at 3 and Root at 4 is not the way forward in Twenty20 cricket.
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Hales is starting to become consistently good now, I'd like him in the ODI side.
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bugger, Buttler was looking really dangerous there.
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Hales is starting to become consistently good now, I'd like him in the ODI side.
Agree, really good batting *from Hales* here, just hasn't had anyone stay with him long enough, Buttler did ok and did get us in the game at least.
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Yeah I think the trio of Bell, Root and Morgan stagnated the innings too much, but you never know.
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unlucky for Hales
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That's probably that but well done Hales.
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We're giving it a go and that at least is an improvement.
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Yeah it's been a decent effort. The mistakes are poor catching, one horror over from Jordan(who I rate highly) and having Bell and Root at 3 and 4.
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Well you could say that Malinga is a genius, and his figures show he's bloody good...but he is chucking it, how the fuck has he got away with it all this time? How can you pick a ball as a batsman when it's coming from that angle?
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Malinga is a cheat tonight, has always been a cheat and will carry on being a cheat as long as he plays cricket.
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I agree, I hate that, despite him being very talented, his success is almost entirely down to the fact that his action is something people just don't face enough of to learn to play it. I'm convinced that if there were a few similar to him in county cricket he'd be found out. Look at the Jordan wicket, that wasn't a good delivery it was just that the line was so strange that Jordan just didn't pick it. The delivery to get Hales was a good one though, largely because bowling slow and straight after you just been clubbed to the boundary for bowling the same thing is very brave.
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Yep he has a questionable action, but we lost the game in the middle overs we really need to get our game changers higher up the order.
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We got closer than I thought we would.
I like the look of this side with Bopara coming in late. Jordan and Gurney have bags of potential and when Hales gets it right he's as good as anyone.
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Yep he has a questionable action,
No it's not questionable. It's just wrong. I really don't know how he is allowed to get away with it when many others have been banned for slight deviations.
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it's a sri lankan thing, murali was very lucky to be allowed to play internationally as well
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Malinga just to good for England olaftab Load of shite to say he is a cheat
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But he just is!
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Not that he's a cheat, more than any other country they'd have trained that action out of him, Sri Lanka have no qualms with letting players like him and Murali (and to an extent Dilshan who came through with a very odd batting technique). It's technically legal but it's just not cricket.
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The rulers of the game seem happy with his action ,it's not as if he is a newcomer, he has been around a good while
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wow! amazing that people still think malinga chucks it!! chucking is when you bend your arm, malinga has a round arm action he has no chance to throw it. Jeff Thompson Waqar Younis had round arm actions. Malinga's action looks strange but doesnt make him a chucker. I knw a lot of boys use this action when they play with a tennis ball to prevent it bouncing too much or to skim it through the surface when playing beach cricket. Sri Lanka does well because they produce wonderful orthodox cricketers like sanga, mahela etc but also let the unorthodox shine.
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Sometimes his arm barely reaches above his head, it's like a baseball pitch, it's chucking, don't care how anyone tries to dress it up. Any game involving him I automatically write off as a serious game of cricket.
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If Malinga is legal, then we should coach all players to do this.
I remember Muarli was legal because he got a letter from his doctor, did Malinga also have the same benefit?
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I've always thought that the ICC decided that Malinga's action was legal because they didn't want to upset the powerful Asian cricket boards.
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If Malinga is legal, then we should coach all players to do this.
I remember Muarli was legal because he got a letter from his doctor, did Malinga also have the same benefit?
I think Murali and Malinga have both been through the ICC bio-dynamics test which was developed by an Aussie university but funded by, yes you've guessed it the ICC.
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wow! amazing that people still think malinga chucks it!! chucking is when you bend your arm, malinga has a round arm action he has no chance to throw it. Jeff Thompson Waqar Younis had round arm actions. Malinga's action looks strange but doesnt make him a chucker. I knw a lot of boys use this action when they play with a tennis ball to prevent it bouncing too much or to skim it through the surface when playing beach cricket.
Then let them carry on playing beach cricket then, Malinga's action has no place on a proper cricket pitch. Because he's allowed (for some reason only known to the ICC) to be the only International cricketer to bowl the ball from nowhere near above his head he can release it from anywhere above the horizontal, it makes him almost impossible to read. He should have been told from the start to sort it out, after all, unlike Murali, he has no physical impairment stopping him from bowling with the same action as 99.99999% of other International cricketers.
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No but he has some romantic story about bowling tennis balls in the streets of Colombo at milk crates and learning to keep the bounce down by chucking like a baseball pitcher, so it's all cool.
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wow! amazing that people still think malinga chucks it!! chucking is when you bend your arm, malinga has a round arm action he has no chance to throw it. Jeff Thompson Waqar Younis had round arm actions. Malinga's action looks strange but doesnt make him a chucker. I knw a lot of boys use this action when they play with a tennis ball to prevent it bouncing too much or to skim it through the surface when playing beach cricket. Sri Lanka does well because they produce wonderful orthodox cricketers like sanga, mahela etc but also let the unorthodox shine.
just to get this straight can you confirm that you're comparing this:
to this:
Are you honestly telling me you don't see the difference?
As I said, his action isn't illegal, the ICC have been clear on that, but then KP switch-hitting wasn't illegal either but when Sri Lanka sulked about KP (remember Dilshan refusing to bowl) the ICC made it illegal because it wasn't in the 'spirit of the game' to circumvent the field placings like that. Finn clipping the wickets on his run in wasn't illegal but the ICC made it so for similar reasons. Again Sri Lanka were one of the nations that complained there.
My standpoint on it is that allowing Malinga to bowl that way at the top level of international cricket is not good for the game, the legality of it is largely irrelevant for me.
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Malinga doesnt chuck. end of story. he didnt go through any tests simply cause he has a round arm action. he has been bowling the same way for the last 10 years and if the english batsmen cant pick him then its too bad. Not a single cricketer of repute has even questioned his legality or the spirit of the game unlike murali.
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Malinga's length is also pretty easy to pick up from his action - the more overarm the shorter, the rounder-arm the fuller. In a way his action could be described as a disadvantage sometimes.
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Malinga doesnt chuck. end of story. he didnt go through any tests simply cause he has a round arm action. he has been bowling the same way for the last 10 years and if the english batsmen cant pick him then its too bad. Not a single cricketer of repute has even questioned his legality or the spirit of the game unlike murali.
So you're sticking to the thought that him and Younis have the same action then? Having a round arm delivery is fine, what's important is the angle of the arm at the point of release. Malinga releases from a very low angle and a fair number of his deliveries are questionable as being above the horizontal but I've never seen him given a no ball for one of those.
There were plenty of complaints about Malinga when he came through, just because no complains any more doesn't mean those complaints didn't happen.
As I said, KP switch-hitting wasn't illegal (refusing to bowl to someone repeatedly is though, but Dilshan was allowed to do that) but the ICC forced through a rule change when Sri Lanka sulked about that.
Once again, any other country would've trained him to lean over a little to get his arm to an angle clearly above the horizontal, stil laloowing the round arm delivery and the 'skiddy' action that produces but not having most deliveries border on being released from an illegal position.
What are your thoughts on bodyline for example, there was nothing illegal about that but was it sporting and good for the game?
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His action is legal but I will always question whether it's within the spirit of the game.
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Malinga doesnt chuck. end of story. he didnt go through any tests simply cause he has a round arm action. he has been bowling the same way for the last 10 years and if the english batsmen cant pick him then its too bad. Not a single cricketer of repute has even questioned his legality or the spirit of the game unlike murali.
Dear oh dear! You are incredible. First you compare him to Thommo and Waqar ( and I am not sure if you mean Wasim) both up and over bowlers of distinction and then piss in the wind about his chucking. He is not even close to being legal and I would suggest that general cricket politeness lets him get away from taking any player flak and ICC are too worried not to ruffle any Sri Lankan national feathers to do something about it. That man should not be on a cricket pitch bowling. He is a joke. How he manage to say to the umpire before his stint " right arm over umpire" without chuckling is behind me.
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The Laws of Cricket state that the arm should not straighten during the delivery phase of a bowler's action. "Chucking" refers to flexing of the elbow, not "oh, that bowler looks a bit funny so he must be chucking it".
If you look closely at the replays, you'll see that Malinga's arm is perfectly straight, just away from his body. Try swinging your arm around like that, and you'll find that it just doesn't work if you try to chuck. Tait has similarities (but obviously isn't as extreme) and so did Thommo in the 80s.
I'll accept that Murali's action looks dodgy, even to the experts...but questioning Malinga's action is the sign of someone who doesn't really know their cricket.
If it's such an advantage to bowl like Malinga, then everyone should do it. The truth is, they can't, because it actually makes bowling more difficult.
It's a disadvantage to bowl like Malinga. 99 percent of people couldn't hit the cut strip bowling with his action.
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You are missing the point ashkar. The very fact that he is one of a very few, and the only one playing International cricket, that can manage to bowl like that is why it should be banned.
It isn't seen at any level of cricket apart from when playing Sri Lanka, no batsman can prepare for it and the ball is coming from an angle that you could only replicate in the nets by getting a dwarf to bowl from six feet outside the popping crease!
I agree that it isn't actually illegal, but that is only because the laws of cricket didn't ban round arm bowling at the same time they banned underarm bowling after that disgraceful bit of cheating by the Chappells for Australia, that wasn't illegal at the time but everyone swiftly agreed that it was definitely NOT in the spirit of the game.
Round arm bowling is as rare and as hard to do well, and defend against, as Pietersen's switch hitting, why was that swiftly banned and yet Malinga carries on regardless?
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If Malinga was playing for England then there would not be all this fuss on here.
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If Malinga was bowling for England, he would have been banned straight away.
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Oh yeah ,really !
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I like the look of Jordan. When he runs in, he barely looks like he's moving. And he's bowling high 80s. I like the look of him, could be a regular Test all rounder in a few years. Seems very composed already.
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I like the look of Jordan. When he runs in, he barely looks like he's moving. And he's bowling high 80s. I like the look of him, could be a regular Test all rounder in a few years. Seems very composed already.
Jordan will be a key bowler for us for the next decade, he's precisely what we've been missing for the last few years. Despite last summer I think Kerrigan will be a regular before long as well and Broad and Stokes look safe bets to keep their places as well.
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I agree I think in the long term Jordan will be a better version of Bresnan. His bowling is much more of a threat and he has natural ability with the bat that could be exploited.
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I'm disappointed that they've not selected Hales for the game today.
England Alastair Cook, Ian Bell, Gary Ballance, Joe Root, Eoin Morgan, Ravi Bopara, Jos Buttler, Chris Jordan, James Tredwell, James Anderson, Harry Gurney
Cook and Bell at the top of the order are accumulators whereas Hales has the technique to really dominate an attack and put the game out of reach of the fielding side.
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I'm disappointed that they've not selected Hales for the game today.
England Alastair Cook, Ian Bell, Gary Ballance, Joe Root, Eoin Morgan, Ravi Bopara, Jos Buttler, Chris Jordan, James Tredwell, James Anderson, Harry Gurney
Cook and Bell at the top of the order are accumulators whereas Hales has the technique to really dominate an attack and put the game out of reach of the fielding side.
especially as Duckworth/Lewis may rear it's mathematical head....
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I agree we need more firepower up the top, Hales should be opening for the ODI side.
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Cook gone. Thing is I don't know what will happen in this game, but there's just not much of an air of excitement with Cook and Bell opening. We need to be more bold with our selections.
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It's a disadvantage to bowl like Malinga. 99 percent of people couldn't hit the cut strip bowling with his action.
First time my son saw him bowl he asked if he was bowling underarm.
It's amazing he's able to get away with it, I haven't a clue what constitutes a legal delivery these days.
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"This is not by any means a full house and, yes, there are other factors involved, but it wouldn't surprise me if some people thought they had their fingers burnt last year when England didn't play their first-choice side. If England fans are staying away because the team aren't playing well that's disappointing because you have to support your team through thick and thin."
I find the latter part this statement a bit unfair from Agnew, to even think England fans would stay away because we're not playing well is harsh. Throughout the 90s we were awful and we still got full houses all the time, so I doubt that's the reason.
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I'd take Morgan out, push everyone else down a place and add Hales at the top. Give Hales the remit to go out and score big for 5-10 overs and if he's still there after that just try to keep the rate high and hang around. Then you have Bell and Root coming in as stabilisers if we're looking in trouble and the rest to come in and pile a few runs on quickly.
I like Morgan but for me it's him or Bopara at 6 and Ravi is in far better form.
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"This is not by any means a full house and, yes, there are other factors involved, but it wouldn't surprise me if some people thought they had their fingers burnt last year when England didn't play their first-choice side. If England fans are staying away because the team aren't playing well that's disappointing because you have to support your team through thick and thin."
I find the latter part this statement a bit unfair from Agnew, to even think England fans would stay away because we're not playing well is harsh. Throughout the 90s we were awful and we still got full houses all the time, so I doubt that's the reason.
An ODI on a Thursday before a bank holiday weekend with a dodgy weather forecast has a lot to do with it. This along with cricket overkill in London. Of 47 days of international cricket this season, 15 of them are played in London.
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I wouldn't drop Morgan, I'd be more inclined to drop Root. I was impressed when Root came into the side, but since last summer he has flattered to deceive most of the time.
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I wouldn't drop Morgan, I'd be more inclined to drop Root. I was impressed when Root came into the side, but since last summer he has flattered to deceive most of the time.
I'd rather see Root develop as a test player foremost, I think he has massive potential there.
I'd also consider dropping Cook or Bell from the 50 over side. There are both class acts but one of them should stand aside to make room for Hales.
Bears and Villa bias aside, I think Bell should go.
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Bell has an annoying habit of giving his wicket away for no good reason in the shorter forms, sounds like another of those today where he just chips the ball to the fielder for a bit of a dolly.
I say Morgan because he's not doing the job he's there for at the minute, he should be pushing the run rate up and scoring big and quick but even when he does score at the minute he's not really changing the game. Root should be developing towards the Collingwood role of keeping the board ticking and rotating the strike and letting the other guy play with freedom. He's not doing it perfectly but his record is decent enough and he has the talent to do that role well.
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Bell has an annoying habit of giving his wicket away for no good reason in the shorter forms, sounds like another of those today where he just chips the ball to the fielder for a bit of a dolly.
I say Morgan because he's not doing the job he's there for at the minute, he should be pushing the run rate up and scoring big and quick but even when he does score at the minute he's not really changing the game. Root should be developing towards the Collingwood role of keeping the board ticking and rotating the strike and letting the other guy play with freedom. He's not doing it perfectly but his record is decent enough and he has the talent to do that role well.
Morgan has been through a lean spell but has come through it. I wonder if he's playing the price of the repeated failures of the batsmen above him in the order. The others fail and it piles pressure on the middle order. It takes a particular temperament to thrive in such circumstances.
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I'll clarify I do rate Root and I think he'll come good, but there doesn't seem to be much questioning his role currently.
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For the Test side with no obvious spinner I think I'd start the summer with -
Robson
Cook
Bell
Root
Ballance
Ali
Stokes
Kieswetter
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
I think that side would give us enough options, and I think Kieswetter's glove work is better than Buttler's at the moment.
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Morgan has largely come through it but we ahven't seen any dominating performances from him yet, he really needs to pull a few of those off to secure his place in the side, that's what got him in the team afterall.
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Morgan has largely come through it but we ahven't seen any dominating performances from him yet, he really needs to pull a few of those off to secure his place in the side, that's what got him in the team afterall.
He failed today.
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Morgan has largely come through it but we ahven't seen any dominating performances from him yet, he really needs to pull a few of those off to secure his place in the side, that's what got him in the team afterall.
He failed today.
and Root played a very important innings from what I can tell, damn work making me miss it!
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did Jordan have something in his tea, 38 from 13 is spectacular, he really is a threat down the order.
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For the Test side with no obvious spinner I think I'd start the summer with -
Robson
Cook
Bell
Root
Ballance
Ali
Stokes
Kieswetter
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
I think that side would give us enough options, and I think Kieswetter's glove work is better than Buttler's at the moment.
I prefer Buttler, I just think he's got a bit more about him and I'd like to see us give Kerrigan (who did really well for the lions in the winter) another look at some point but that's pretty close otherwise.
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What an effort from Buttler and Jordan, that's given us a competitive total and Ballance was very good as well. I really think Jordan is a massively talented player.
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For the Test side with no obvious spinner I think I'd start the summer with -
Robson
Cook
Bell
Root
Ballance
Ali
Stokes
Kieswetter
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
I think that side would give us enough options, and I think Kieswetter's glove work is better than Buttler's at the moment.
I prefer Buttler, I just think he's got a bit more about him and I'd like to see us give Kerrigan (who did really well for the lions in the winter) another look at some point but that's pretty close otherwise.
I Buttler's time will come, but it's pretty close between those two for me. Kerrigan I'd leave to continue on the county circuit for a bit, I see him as a long term option but I don't want to rush him back a bit like Finn.
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Not a bad score that.
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Jimmy strikes first up, what's encouraging from him is that his pace is back up again from the late summer and the winter.
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How are the conditions/forecast?
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There was a bit of rain before the start of the innings, but it looks ok at the moment.
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There was a bit of rain before the start of the innings, but it looks ok at the moment.
Thanks, we need to win this one but don't feel confident after the other night.
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We do yeah, it's really important this new regime gets off to a positive start.
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Hussain just made a good point, Cook needs to assert himself on the bowlers and if he wants slips in he tells the bowlers he's putting slips in.
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Excellent from Gurney, Sanga gone.
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I am watching on a live stream, still 1 down but looking forward to a wicket ;)
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It's raining now.
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If we could get the opening partnership to have a bit more impetus we could be a good side.
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Revised target off 226 from 32.
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Dilshan gone, Jordan strikes.
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That's a disgrace of a shot from a player of Jayawardene's class, very average delivery that he just got completely wrong.
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Yep, good for us though.
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excellent bowling from jordan, they're terrified of him
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Yeah really hostile spell, he's bowling excellently.
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should've had a 4th, poor from Gurney. Tredwell has somehow got a 3rd despite not doing anything, no dip, no turn, no deception, just poor shot selection.
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Yeah Tredwell has been a bit lucky here. Jordan has been outstanding and I think pretty much played himself into the Test side.
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Gurney shouldn't be going around the wicket if he can't control the no ball.
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Buttler has got to better there.
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Great win and some great performances from Ballance and Jordan in particular.
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Clear man of the match performance from Jordan and generally a very professional showing.
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excellent bowling from jordan, they're terrified of him
Saw him at Edgbaston in our first LVC game and he gave Rikki Clarke a torrid time resulting in a broken finger. The bastard.
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I liked the look of Jordan when he first started being mentioned for England and since then he's got quicker and more consistent, I think he's still got more to come, I suspect he'll cap around 91-92mph but if he can do that and keep his line and length we've got a seriously top drawer bowler on our hands in him. He's surely got to be in the test side this summer as well.
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Just came across this gem in the in the Play Store's review section for The ESPNcricinfo Cricket App.
Suck this apps Fuck u for not showing live score of Nepal international matches....
Go n die in hell for discriminating nd under-estimating Nepalese team
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I liked the look of Jordan when he first started being mentioned for England and since then he's got quicker and more consistent, I think he's still got more to come, I suspect he'll cap around 91-92mph but if he can do that and keep his line and length we've got a seriously top drawer bowler on our hands in him. He's surely got to be in the test side this summer as well.
Cook said in his post-match interview that he was looking forward to seeing Jordan bowl with the red ball this summer. I think that's a big hint at test selection. He's moved ahead of Bresnan and is at least 10mph quicker than Woakes. He has to play in the first test.
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I liked the look of Jordan when he first started being mentioned for England and since then he's got quicker and more consistent, I think he's still got more to come, I suspect he'll cap around 91-92mph but if he can do that and keep his line and length we've got a seriously top drawer bowler on our hands in him. He's surely got to be in the test side this summer as well.
Cook said in his post-match interview that he was looking forward to seeing Jordan bowl with the red ball this summer. I think that's a big hint at test selection. He's moved ahead of Bresnan and is at least 10mph quicker than Woakes. He has to play in the first test.
He does and I agree I reckon he'll be a 90 mph bowler. He's much more of a threat than Bresnan, he's also excellent in the field and a potentially excellent bat. We've got a real talent on our hands here.
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Hales called up as cover for Cook, I'd like to see him play tomorrow.
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Carberry playing, hopefully he'll be a bit more proactive at the top. Bowling first we've started quite well, but not much help for the bowlers.
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Interesting focus on Jordan's run up, he has a lot of potential to increase his pace as he's not getting much from the run up.
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We're struggling here and need a wicket.
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We're struggling here and need a wicket.
Your wish comes true!!!
129-2
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We needed it too, but need a couple more.
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Brilliant fielding from Ballance, but shocking running from Jayawardene.
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Brilliant fielding from Ballance, but shocking running from Jayawardene.
He certainly was dozing there, he didn't even try a dive....but yes excellent from Ballance & Buttler.
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Brilliant ball Jordan, bowls Dilshan.
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Good all round but way too many wides have been bowled.
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Poor drop from Gurney, he's done that twice now.
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Jordan's been unlucky with catches being dropped off him lately.
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Gurney might well be dropping his chance at being an England regular, that's his second really poor drop in the deep.
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Tredwell's last over was poor, two sixes.
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I reckon we let them get 20-25 more than they deserved there, pretty poor in the field.
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Bloody hell I go out for a couple of hours, what a shambles.
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Only thing we can hope for in this game now is that Morgan can get some runs, this has been a horrible batting display by the looks of it.
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Well at least he got 40.
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Other than Morgan that was a truly pitiful batting display.
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Batting was pathetic(Morgan apart) and it led on from the fielding as well, which was very poor.
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Jimmy definitely has his zip back.
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Jimmy definitely has his zip back.
He does, conditions obviously suit him but he's bowling beautifully.
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Yeah of course, but half way through last summer he seemed to drop to low 80s in terms of speed and that continued in the winter. However now he seems to be back around the mid 80s and it makes a big difference.
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Jordan gets Sanga. Good to see Cook keeping two slips up.
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I'm surprised that they're playing given the forecast and it's pleasing to see the level of control on display from our bowlers.
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This is where we need to be ruthless and knock them over cheaply.
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60-6 Jordan has three now. I'm really glad to see him being rewarded with wickets.
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The conditions maybe favourable, but England are taking advantage ruthlessly well. Finish 'em off lads.
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It's been very ruthless and good to finally see that from Cook I hope he's learning. Jordan and Anderson have been excellent.
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Brilliant 67 all out and Jordan gets a well deserved 5fer.
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Jordan must be bowling his way into the Test side.
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Great win by 10 wickets. Sri Lanka are a bit Jekyll & Hyde really. Just like us!
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So now I think Bell needs another 212 to reach 5000 ODI runs and 220 to become Englands highest ODI batsman ever
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So now I think Bell needs another 212 to reach 5000 ODI runs and 220 to become Englands highest ODI batsman ever
Incredible stat particularly as for long periods he has never been an automatic choice for the one day side. It shows that class will always rise to the top regardless of the form of cricket being played.
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So now I think Bell needs another 212 to reach 5000 ODI runs and 220 to become Englands highest ODI batsman ever
Surely Beefy will never lose this particular crown?
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So now I think Bell needs another 212 to reach 5000 ODI runs and 220 to become Englands highest ODI batsman ever
Surely Beefy will never lose this particular crown?
Took me a few minutes and I even Googled his ODI stats, but I get it now!
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Blimey that was quick, well done England
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Such an odd series. Jordan will definitely be in the Test side now.
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Such an odd series. Jordan will definitely be in the Test side now.
Let's hope so.
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Well Cook and Saker have said he's a Test player, so you'd hope so!
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Test team this Summer :
Cook
Root
Bell
Ballance
Morgan
Stokes
Keeper - not sure on this one yet
Jordan
Broad
Spinner - again not sure
Anderson
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Test team this Summer :
Cook
Root
Bell
Ballance
Morgan
Stokes
Keeper - not sure on this one yet
Jordan
Broad
Spinner - again not sure
Anderson
With no credible spin option, I'd go with Moeen Ali. He could open with Cook thus allowing Root to come in at 5 or 6 and bowl some tidy overs of spin. If Matty Prior succumbs to his wear and tear injuries then the keeper will be between Kieswetter or Buttler. Kiees shades it as the better keeper and he's a Villa fan. Not sure if Stokes is fit though?
The lack of test experience in that line up also suggests that Carberry won't be too far from selection too.
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I think it should be -
Cook
Robson
Bell
Root
Ballance
Ali
Stokes
Kieswetter
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
I don't think a specialist spinner stands out at the minute, and I don't think Root is an international opener. Ali is a good option in the middle order.
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I think Robson has pretty much nailed the opening slot now.
Cook
Robson
Bell
Ballance
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
Panesar
Would be my team. Panesar is the best spin option we have available.
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I think it should be -
Cook
Robson
Bell
Root
Ballance
Ali
Stokes
Kieswetter
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
I don't think a specialist spinner stands out at the minute, and I don't think Root is an international opener. Ali is a good option in the middle order.
Whilst we all want to see a bit of a revolution, I really think that batting line up is just too inexperienced. I think Carberry will still be there.
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I'd go with
Cook
Carberry
Bell
Ballance
Morgan
Root
Ali
Kieswetter
Broad
Jordan
Anderson
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I don't think you can have Ballance, Morgan and Root. Stokes has to be in for Morgan or Ballance.
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Jordan really impresses with his pace and bounce.
It's funny, but watching his run-up, you don't really expect him to generate so much speed. He does look a bit ungainly.
Perhaps a coach could sort out his approach to the wicket.
Having said that, they tried to do that with Graham Dilley in the 80s. According to Boycott, after the coaches had finished with him, he had a run-up like Dennis Lillee and the pace of Dennis Amiss!!
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For me there's some definites and a couple of 1 from 2 choices:
Cook
Carberry/Robson
Bell
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Keis/Buttler
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
Panesar/Ali (at 6 with everyone moving down 1)
Everyone who I've given a line to themselves is looking guaranteed a place right now, based on form and comments in the press. The real decision to be made is the spinner, I think I'd go with Ali, I love the idea or Jordan and Broad at 9 and 10, that gives us run scorers right into the tail.
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Cook
Carberry
Root
Bell
Ballance
Stokes
Prior
Broad
Jordan
Borthwick (or Ali)
Anderson
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I prefer Peter's team to Paul's, though I too would be more inclined to go with Ali over Borthwick or Panesar. I just think that, given the inexperience in the side and particularly in the bowling, having Prior's experience behind the stumps would be a very useful aid to the transition between generations.
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I'd just go with Borthwick because it's Sri Lanka and not India, and bowling at Durham really does him no favours. He can also bat and although I agree that Ali is a better turner and bat at this stage, if Borthwick can show that he's developed and added turn and control to his bounce and control then he'd be very useful against India. If he or Carberry - and to a lesser degree, Prior - fail then I'd go for Ali, AN Other for Carberry (haven't decided yet), and Buttler against India.
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Prior's achilles is a big trouble apparently so I think he's out. I want Ali in there because I think he's earned it based on last year, and Robson is a better long term option than Carberry. The reason I want Kies in is because at the moment he's a better gloveman than Buttler, and Buttler needs to play some 4 day cricket to improve his glove work.
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Carberry has never really scored runs in division 1.
I think there is a sizeable gap between the divisions, and we shouldn't be picking players based purely on division 2 form. Kerrigan is proof of that
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Carberry has never really scored runs in division 1.
I think there is a sizeable gap between the divisions, and we shouldn't be picking players based purely on division 2 form. Kerrigan is proof of that
Kerrigan will be a very good spinner, the problem was he didn't think he deserved to be there, and it showed. He was excellent for the Lions in Feb.
Like PWA I'm pretty sure Prior has all but been ruled out of the Sri Lanka tests which is why I ignored him.
Aside from that, I'd definitely have Bell coming in before Root and Jordan in before Broad.
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I'd favour a different approach to the keeper question. I think we need the best glove man behind the stumps and not someone selected for his batting ability. Al lack of a credible spin option puts more pressure on the other bowlers to take wickets. When difficult chances come along from these bowlers, you want your keeper to take them. A Kieswetter or a Buttler will always miss sharp chances because they're not specialist keepers.
I'd go for Chris Read. A couple of sharp catches taken will make up for the loss of 20 or 30 lower middle order runs. I'd then have Kieswetter and Buttler back learning their trade on the County circuit under the guidance of Bruce French. They've both suffered by being at Somerset at the same time. Now Buttler has moved on lets see who progresses the most with regular Championship cricket.
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I think Kieswetter has developed a lot of the last year in all aspects of the game, Read is in his mid-thirties and I think we need to look forward now.
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I think Kieswetter has developed a lot of the last year in all aspects of the game, Read is in his mid-thirties and I think we need to look forward now.
I think both Kies and Buttler need more time in the middle with the gloves on. A year of Read would take the pressure off them and help them develop into better players.
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I know that the IPL isn't everyone's cup of tea but the game on ITV 4 at the moment has some of the best hitting that I've seen in a long time.
Virender Sehwag scored 122 of 58 in a total of 226-6 for Kings XI Punjab. In reply, Chennai Super Kings scored 100-2 off 6 overs with Suresh Raina scoring 87 off 25 before being run out.
Both innings were clinical and proper cricket shots were to the fore.
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England again bat themselves in to a hole and then lose a cluster of wickets trying to up the rate. Change of tactics batting please.
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This is getting close. Fabulous innings from Buttler.
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Top knock from Ravi and Josh so far but this will be a glorious loss!
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Top knock from Ravi and Josh so far but this will be a glorious loss!
If Buttler can stick around who knows? Need to survive a couple from Malinga though!
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Good result from loss of Jordan as Buttler back on strike
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And a stone throw from Slinga gets rid of Buttler
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Buttler shows he's got the fibre to cope under pressure which wilted the more experienced players.
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That has to be one of the best one day innings by an English batsman ever.
If we hadn't spent 20 overs without scoring a boundary we'd have probably won that.
Well played Jos Buttler.
Credit to Malinga too.
He will always divide opinion. The fact is his action has been classed as legal so what a one day bowler.
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A right arm over bowler who chucks it from umpire's right shoulder ... Well done to batters over the years for coping with him.
-
Didn't see the cricket but that knock from Buttler, and more importantly the mental strength he showed is why I'd be looking at getting him into the test side soon, he's got that determination that a few of the England players have shown they're missing.
-
Great knock from Buttler.
-
Buttler could be our Adam Gilchrist over time, 1 session and he could take the game away from opponents.
-
Agreed. He is a more skilful batsman than Gilchrist however it was strength of character that made Aussie into the formidable foe. Let's hope Buttler has that.
-
Buttler will be a top player in our Test side within a couple of years.
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I mentioned in the Bears thread the ton for Stoneman for Durham but tons every where today:
Yorks 136 & 237-0 Lyth 116*, Lees 105* v Northants 251
Durham 411 - 4 Borthwick 164* plus Stonemans who i mentioned earlier
Somerset 312-3 @ Lancs Petersen 109*
Notts 384-5@ Sussex Samit Patel 126*
Worc 329-4 @ Surrey Moen Ali 138*
Some good performances today allied with some decent weather and i assume decent tracks.
-
The IPL warming into a cracker as well: KKR are:
128-2 13
Pandey 62 (37)
Pathan 36 (21)
72 off 42 required
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Buttler has indicated he's not ready for Tests yet.
-
Senanayake's action has been reported by the Umpires who stood in the Lords ODI
Action Reported (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-sri-lanka-2014/content/current/story/749647.html)
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Anyone else here today?
-
Anyone else here today?
Watching on TV i'm afraid....finished work at 12:30 got home and putting my feet up....enjoy the day!
Won toss and batted....with potential rain interruptions was that wise?
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I think it's important we win this game as it's a chance to win the first series of the Moores return. Also I'm really curious about the Test squad on Thursday, there are lots of batsmen scoring runs and bowlers taking wickets.
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|Looking out the window of the office I'd be amazed if this doesn't end up up a 20-25 over match. Having elected to bat we need early runs on the board.
-
The weather forecast is not too promising. Ditto for Friday night's rounders against Durham.
Edgbaston is cursed I tells ya!
-
Cook really needs runs in this game.
-
The cricketing authorities/grounds really need to rethink their pricing. It's really short sighted and they need to lower prices to fill out grounds. Plus Tuesday is not a great day to have a game.
-
Well, well. Batting power-play in the 11th over. That's different.
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Well, well. Batting power-play in the 11th over. That's different.
9 runs in 1st power-play over. Could work, this.
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76-1 off 15 overs. Bell out last ball of power play.
-
Seems like they've at least considered the conditions and the chance of some lost overs, 5 an over for the first 15 is about as brave as Cook and Bell were ever going to get. We need to avoid getting bogged down in the middle overs now, 150-160 after 30 and wickets in hand and we're in a very strong position.
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Taking the powerplay early is fine, but we didn't take any advantage from it. It was a very strange decision.
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Taking the powerplay early is fine, but we didn't take any advantage from it. It was a very strange decision.
Not sure about that, 30-1 is ok, I think we have a habit of trying to hit the ball too hard during powerplays normally and lose wickets which slow things just as much as this. It only works in our favour if Buttler is nice and set at the crease for it, with a willing partner at the other end.
-
The wicket seems very slow and batsmen are struggling to time the ball. It's rare to see a player like Bell struggle like that.
-
Ballance started the series well but he's tailed off a bit.
-
This innings is going a bit sideways now, we need Morgan to perform. I'm still not convinced by Root, he frequently gets out cheaply.
-
Poor time for Cook to go, we really need to gain some impetus again.
-
Completely crumbling now. It's down to Bopara and Buttler to save us again.
-
What really annoys me about England in ODI's is how often we look like we've never played this form of the game.
-
Sounds like we're struggling with the pitch though, when a bunch of batsmen hit lobbed catches to the in-field it's normally because the ball is sticking in the pitch, if so tredwell, bopara and root have got a very important job to do and the quicks have to mix in a bunch of slower deliveries, really take advantage of the pitch.
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Buttler and Jordan are going to just have to go for this, 9 overs to go but we need 60-70 to get a competitive score, the wickets and disruption in the middle has done for us by the looks of it, which was my worry earlier, the start was ok by our standards. Cook going when he did was a big blow.
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I can hear the booing from miles away.
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Silly from Buttler to wander down like that but that's just a scummy thing to do, particularly galling seeing as his action has already been reported and he's pretty lucky to be playing.
-
I can hear the booing from miles away.
Although it's within the rules a dismissal like that is not within the spirit of the game.
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I can hear the booing from miles away.
Although it's within the rules a dismissal like that is not within the spirit of the game.
Sri Lanka always live right on the edge of the rules, look back at the discussion on here about Malinga and then look at Senanayake's action. I'd be ok with that if they weren't the team that kicked up a stink about Finn kicking the wicket, I've not got a lot of time for them.
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I don't really have any sympathy for Buttler there, he had quite clearly been warned a couple of times by Senanyake and blatantly left his crease, out i'm afraid.
Angelo Matthews could i suppose have retrieved the situation when the umpire asked him if he wanted to uphold the appeal which obviously he did.
For fcuks sake Buttler scored a quick ton in his last game, this is a series decider, very naive of him.
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Tweets from a list by ESPNcricinfo
Michael Vaughan ✔ @MichaelVaughan
Totally blame the Captain... He is the man who makes the decisions and should have over turned the decision... No way to play the game...
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As I said, it's a little silly from Buttler but I'm pretty sure that it you froze the camera on the non-striker when the batsman is in his delivery stride 90% of the time they'd be slightly out of their crease. If' he'd been a couple of yards down the wicket I'd not be so annoyed but that was taking the piss, it really does sum up the SL approach to the game, they were on top anyway and are clear favourites but any chance to get a benefit by playing slightly outside the spirit of the game and they just go with it.
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I am not watching it so can't speak specifically of the incident. In wider cricketing terms though, the Asian block and what they can get away with is pretty shitty.
India seem to have carte blanche to decide which rules they like, Pakistan are up there with the biggest cheats in any world sport and Sri Lanka punch above their weight as ****** because they can rely on those two to back them up.
I still like watching it occasionally but international cricket is now so riddled by politics and win at all costs that is slowly starting to resemble football and its race for ever more money at all costs.
There has always been a touch of gamesmanship but these days it is getting silly. Spot fixing in the tests, the games NZ are having with it, Afridi spinning like a top on a good length after what was feared to be a terrorist attack, ball tampering, media in Oz so abusive that they would be chucked out of a football ground if they shouted up in a similar fashion, T20 taking over as the most popular version etc.
I am a mardy old fucker about football. If the other sports I like go the same way then Christ only knows what I will do at weekends!
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Good to see the espncricinfo correspondent writing "the city end".
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167 for Hales today. Why isn't he in the one day side?
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Just seen the video of the "run out". SL did nothing wrong, they warned Buttler and he did the same thing again.
Alec Stewart on da Beeb
"First of all it's not ideal. With the laws of the game as they are Sri Lanka are entitled to appeal. They warned Buttler. Buttler did exactly the same thing again. Senanayake is allowed to do that and [captain Angelo] Mathews is allowed to uphold the decision. We don't like to see that, but why have that law when it can't be used. The law needs to change so there is something else instead of a consequence of being run out, or you can just put up with it."
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I think this Sri Lankan innings so far shows our problem, we don't impose ourselves on the game with the bat at the top of the order. There is no way a top 4 of Cook, Bell, Ballance and Root is up to it. We need Hales in the top order, because our style doesn't work when we set a target. Also we have bowled far too many wides and no balls in this series.
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Good catch from Root there, but we need a clatter of wickets.
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Good from Tredwell and Jimmy there, we need to attack hard now.
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Tredwell, 3 overs 2 wickets for 8 runs. Cook takes him off. Cooky we've got to bowl them out, get a grip.
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I think it highlights a bit of a concern, he he's got to make up 10 overs from Root and Bopara and he lacks trust in them. I think we need another genuine bowling option.
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I think it's sensible captaincy, he's giving Root a few overs when SL are trying to stop a collapse so they're not going after him, if we can get 4-5 cheap overs from Root now he can bring Tredwell back if they try to escalate again.
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I think it's sensible captaincy, he's giving Root a few overs when SL are trying to stop a collapse so they're not going after him, if we can get 4-5 cheap overs from Root now he can bring Tredwell back if they try to escalate again.
I agree but it highlights a limitation in the team, that he has a bowler he feels he can't attack with.
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maybe but there's not many teams with 5 strike bowlers so I'm ok with it if he uses them properly.
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No true, but unless Root's form improves I think Mooen Ali might be a better option.
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Absoutely, Root with the bat is a much bigger concern than Root with the ball right now.
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He hasn't performed over quite a long time now, and yet he seems to be an automatic pick which is strange.
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This is drifting now, Cook needs to do something or Sri Lanka will stroll this.
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Jordan needs to cut out the wides, it's his only downside at the moment.
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Jordan needs to cut out the wides, it's his only downside at the moment.
I think he's trying to bowl at the toes but he over cooks them sometimes, I like seeing a bowler try things though, line and length bowlers are invaluable to the long form, but in ODI and T20 you need to have a bit of variation, that's why I've always been willing to defend Dernbach.
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We desperately need a wicket now.
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Gurney probably should have got there.
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This team lacks wicket takers. I think our problem is we let the game drift at the top of the order when we bat and we let the game drift in the middle overs when we bowl. We don't have enough game changers.
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Gurney fluffs at third man again.
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I've seen enough of Gurney to be sure he's not good enough fielding in the deep for this level, and it's not like he's taking enough wickets to make up for it. I have no faith in him under those chances now.
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I've seen enough of Gurney to be sure he's not good enough fielding in the deep for this level, and it's not like he's taking enough wickets to make up for it. I have no faith in him under those chances now.
No I agree, I'm not sure he's an international cricketer to be honest.
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Poor drop from Jimmy, he's much better than that.
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Also, for me there's no excuse for getting to the point where Jordan could only possibly bowl 9 overs, after being our best bowler in the series. He's clearly lost count somewhere.
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No pretty poor all round again. There are several issues to address, firstly our top 4 simply isn't good enough for ODI cricket there is no dynamism there. We have bowled far too many wides and no balls and our fielding has been sloppy at times.
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We need to bring Hales in, as I said earlier in the series, Morgan would be the one to drop out for me (pushing Bell, Ballance and Root down a place), he's just not providing anything in there. I'd be looking for an alternative to Gurney who needs to improve in the field and potentially Root who's developed a nasty habit of giving his wicket away.
I think the main part of the side is there though and simply having an opener who can be aggressive in the first 10 might be enough to tip us over.
I'm also very happy to see how pissed off Buttler was, I think deep down he knows that was a silly position to put himself in and it was clearly in his mind, that's another example of him having that bit of edge that we've been missing.
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Tweets from a list by ESPNcricinfo
Michael Vaughan ✔ @MichaelVaughan
Totally blame the Captain... He is the man who makes the decisions and should have over turned the decision... No way to play the game...
So it's ok for batsmen to cheat by stealing a couple of yards so they have an additional run? Yes no way to play the game batters keep it grounded on the right side!
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I'd keep Morgan, he's in a lean period but he's a game changer and we need that. We don't need Root and Ballance, it's one or the other for me. Hales should be in at the top of the order as we're far too easy to bowl at up front and I'd like Stokes in the team as well.
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Just seen the video of the "run out". SL did nothing wrong, they warned Buttler and he did the same thing again.
Alec Stewart on da Beeb
"First of all it's not ideal. With the laws of the game as they are Sri Lanka are entitled to appeal. They warned Buttler. Buttler did exactly the same thing again. Senanayake is allowed to do that and [captain Angelo] Mathews is allowed to uphold the decision. We don't like to see that, but why have that law when it can't be used. The law needs to change so there is something else instead of a consequence of being run out, or you can just put up with it."
Completely agree with UKR and Alec. Sri Lankans did nothing wrong. Buttler was cheating and got what he deserved.
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Poor from Sri Lanka and especially their captain to appeal to give Buttler out. Yes I know Buttler was in the wrong, and yes I know the bowler had warned him, but it really is, and as cliched as it is, not fucking cricket.
They wouldn't have done it to Tredwell or Anderson, but they knew that Buttler was a danger man and so the captain upheld the appeal even after the umpire questioned him.
Sorry, not on for me, and coming from yet another Sri Lankan bowler with a dodgy bowling action.
I am really starting to fucking hate the Sri Lankan cricket team.
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I'm in two minds about it. It does seem unsporting but they had warned him a few times. Are they supposed to just allow him to gain a few yards every delivery?
I think what might have been best is if the bowler had knocked the stumps off, then Matthews had decided not to take the wicket but said next time we won't be so generous. Sort of a final final warning and done very publicly. Then if Buttler does it again and gets run out nobody would really be in a position to complain.
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I'm in two minds about it. It does seem unsporting but they had warned him a few times. Are they supposed to just allow him to gain a few yards every delivery?
I think what might have been best is if the bowler had knocked the stumps off, then Matthews had decided not to take the wicket but said next time we won't be so generous. Sort of a final final warning and done very publicly. Then if Buttler does it again and gets run out nobody would really be in a position to complain.
Exactly my view on it as well, and that's what normally occurs.
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Yes, and I reckon that is exactly what would have happened if it hadn't have been Buttler.
Poor form from Angelo Matthews for me, you could see the umpire looking at him as if to say "do you really want to do this?", but as it was the final danger man he went for it. Bad sportsmanship of the sort I really hope we never succumb to.
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Vote UKIP! Fuckers won't get away with it next time.
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Yes, and I reckon that is exactly what would have happened if it hadn't have been Buttler.
Poor form from Angelo Matthews for me, you could see the umpire looking at him as if to say "do you really want to do this?", but as it was the final danger man he went for it. Bad sportsmanship of the sort I really hope we never succumb to.
I dunno. England haven't always been angels in the sportsmanship stakes. The whole giving bowlers a rest while we bring on a genius fielder was funny because it annoyed Ponting but, being objective, it was pushing the rules to the very edge of what is considered to be within "the spirit of cricket".
This, from Collingwood, was pretty poor too...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=87m2d6cV4F0
(Can't embed it on my phone for some reason)
Oh, and of course not forgetting when Atherton, then England captain, was caught ball-tampering.
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TMS won't have a bad word said about Sri Lanka and it's getting on my nerves.
Alex Stewart was being a right cock.
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Alex Stewart was being a right cock.
Maybe because people kept getting his name wrong? ;-)
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The X and C are next to each other on the keyboard and I have fat fingers.
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Fair enough, me too.
I think Bono is a right xunt.
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Just seen the video of the "run out". SL did nothing wrong, they warned Buttler and he did the same thing again.
Alec Stewart on da Beeb
"First of all it's not ideal. With the laws of the game as they are Sri Lanka are entitled to appeal. They warned Buttler. Buttler did exactly the same thing again. Senanayake is allowed to do that and [captain Angelo] Mathews is allowed to uphold the decision. We don't like to see that, but why have that law when it can't be used. The law needs to change so there is something else instead of a consequence of being run out, or you can just put up with it."
Completely agree with UKR and Alec. Sri Lankans did nothing wrong. Buttler was cheating and got what he deserved.
Buttler was not cheating. Buttler was doing what every batsman does and it's within the rules for him to do it. Buttler was just being dozy and paid the price.
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I wish that each delivery had been called a no ball after the Buttler 'run out'.
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These Sri Lankans ehh, coming over here chucking, fast chucking and now slow chucking, these Sri Lankans, running us out when we're not looking looking and chucking, these Sri Lankans.
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I'm in two minds, because what Buttler did was dim and really within the rules of the game he has no right to complain. However I don't think Matthews should have gone through with the appeal, as it was clearly a tactical dismissal.
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I bet Buttler won't be out in the same manner again, ever!
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What I hope though is that we don't use that dismissal as an excuse for what was a very poor display. We have to be a lot more proactive at the top of the order, carry more of a threat when bowling the middle overs and field better.
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Agreed. They shouldn't keep having to rely on Buttler to bail them out. The top order have to do better.
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Buttler was not cheating. Buttler was doing what every batsman does and it's within the rules for him to do it. Buttler was just being dozy and paid the price.
So they all do it and get away with it and therefore it's not cheating? It is bad sportsmanship because it detracts the bowler from doing his job and it is cheating because by being 2 yards out you gain an unfair advantage.
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Yes, and I reckon that is exactly what would have happened if it hadn't have been Buttler.
Poor form from Angelo Matthews for me, you could see the umpire looking at him as if to say "do you really want to do this?", but as it was the final danger man he went for it. Bad sportsmanship of the sort I really hope we never succumb to.
I am the biggest critic of Sri Lankan dodgy bowlers on here but yesterday they got it right. Buttler was warned and he carried on being a bad sportsman. So no excuses.
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Buttler was not cheating. Buttler was doing what every batsman does and it's within the rules for him to do it. Buttler was just being dozy and paid the price.
So they all do it and get away with it and therefore it's not cheating? It is bad sportsmanship because it detracts the bowler from doing his job and it is cheating because by being 2 yards out you gain an unfair advantage.
Buttler was hardly 2 yards out was he? It doesn't detract from the bowler. When he starts his run, he knows he's going to break the stumps at the non-strikers end. It's entirely pre-meditated particularly as warnings had been issued.
Backing up is an accepted process. It's drummed in to everyone from an early age. What do we do next, stop fielders walking in as the bowler bowls?
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Yes, and I reckon that is exactly what would have happened if it hadn't have been Buttler.
Poor form from Angelo Matthews for me, you could see the umpire looking at him as if to say "do you really want to do this?", but as it was the final danger man he went for it. Bad sportsmanship of the sort I really hope we never succumb to.
I am the biggest critic of Sri Lankan dodgy bowlers on here but yesterday they got it right. Buttler was warned and he carried on being a bad sportsman. So no excuses.
I don't think it was bad sportsmanship at all, he was a few inches out of his ground when the front foot lands, which is pretty much the time everyone moves forward, Mathews not upholding the appeal but telling him to stop it would've been the normal thing to do. I also think that's what they'd have done with anyone else.
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Mathews not upholding the appeal but telling him to stop it would've been the normal thing to do. I also think that's what they'd have done with anyone else.
SL had basically already done that but Buttler kept creeping forward too early.
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This, from Collingwood, was pretty poor too...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=87m2d6cV4F0
Look at that one again and watch Grant Elliot's run. He deliberately runs up the opposite side of the pitch to which is natural to deliberately block Sidebottom from getting to the ball, I don't think he should have any complaints really.
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Not few inches. At least a yard if not two. Look at it again.
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Not few inches. At least a yard if not two. Look at it again.
crap angle but look at 13 seconds at the point where senanayake's front foot lands, there's at most a inch between the toe of the bat and the crease.
Specifically
(http://content.screencast.com/users/Paul_Emery/folders/Snagit/media/07543b53-c671-4293-812c-463e63f4c720/06.04.2014-15.53.png)
That's with Senanayake having started his action (look at his arm position and body shape). As said, you'll find hundreds of examples of someone being that far out at that point every season. As far as I'm concerned it was an agreed tactic that they were going to get in his head with it and they took it even further when they realised it wasn't working.
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Jordan, Ali and Robson in Test squad with Prior as the keeper.
Alastair Cook, Moeen Ali, James Anderson, Gary Ballance, Ian Bell, Stuart Broad, Chris Jordan, Liam Plunkett, Matt Prior, Sam Robson, Joe Root, Chris Woakes
Good to see Plunkett back but surprised by the inclusion of Woakes.
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Very surprised to see Woakes in the squad, but I guess that's a temporary measure as Stokes isn't match fit yet. He'll be back involved soon from what the selectors said. Very interesting to see Plunkett selected, I'm guessing it's rewarding good form. I see the team being -
- Robson
- Cook
- Bell
- Root
- Ballance
- Ali
- Prior
- Jordan
- Broad
- Plunkett
- Anderson
It doesn't look too bad to me, although there are question marks over Root at the moment.
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Very surprised to see Woakes in the squad, but I guess that's a temporary measure as Stokes isn't match fit yet. He'll be back involved soon from what the selectors said. Very interesting to see Plunkett selected, I'm guessing it's rewarding good form. I see the team being -
- Robson
- Cook
- Bell
- Root
- Ballance
- Ali
- Prior
- Jordan
- Broad
- Plunkett
- Anderson
It doesn't look too bad to me, although there are question marks over Root at the moment.
That's the side I'd pick from the squad. I hope Prior's Achilles is up to a 5 day test.
Whatever side they pick there will be 5 changes from the last test we played in January, I don't recall that many changes to a test side for a very long time.
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No exactly and it sums up how much of a mess we made in Australia. Although if he was fit I think Stokes would be playing.
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This, from Collingwood, was pretty poor too...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=87m2d6cV4F0
Look at that one again and watch Grant Elliot's run. He deliberately runs up the opposite side of the pitch to which is natural to deliberately block Sidebottom from getting to the ball, I don't think he should have any complaints really.
Disagree. I think he's barely started his run, sees Sidebottom in front of him and attempts to run round him, but ends up colliding with him. Neither his, nor Sidebottom's fault.
Collingwood should've turned down the wicket.
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Root really needs to perform now, he's not been playing at the required standard for a while now and he needs runs.
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This, from Collingwood, was pretty poor too...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=87m2d6cV4F0
Look at that one again and watch Grant Elliot's run. He deliberately runs up the opposite side of the pitch to which is natural to deliberately block Sidebottom from getting to the ball, I don't think he should have any complaints really.
Disagree. I think he's barely started his run, sees Sidebottom in front of him and attempts to run round him, but ends up colliding with him. Neither his, nor Sidebottom's fault.
Collingwood should've turned down the wicket.
The natural side for him to run down is the opposite one to where the non-striker is running, that way you don't impede each other, Elliot looks at where he's dropped the ball and runs diagonally across the pitch to stop Sidebottom getting to the ball to run one of them out.
I too think Collingwood should have withdrawn the appeal but I can see why he didn't.
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He's only about a yard away from Sidebottom (snigger) when he starts his run. I don't think he has enough time to think "I'm going to impede the bowler". He was just thinking, as anyone would've been, "I need to get the fuck out of the way or I'm gonna get flattened".
I reckon, anyway.
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I'm with plumbutt on this one, I think Elliott knew he was out and tried to put himself that side for 2 reasons, first to slow sidebottom down and second to be between the ball and stumps, it was an unnatural line for him to run. That said I also think we should've turned the appeal down in a 'benefit of the doubt, way.
The other interesting thing from that is to look at where the non-striker is when Sidebottom releases and compare it to the Buttler one.
Onto the test side, I can understand them going with Prior but he's very lucky, his form for the last year has been dire.
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'We've lost one Test series out of a huge number. It's not all doom and gloom as everyone says."
I think that quote from Cook is a bit worrying. Yes it's true we've lost one Test series out of a number, but we were really really hammered. Not only that from the preceding 18 months our performance had dipped massively, and lots of players looked complacent and arrogant.
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'We've lost one Test series out of a huge number. It's not all doom and gloom as everyone says."
I think that quote from Cook is a bit worrying. Yes it's true we've lost one Test series out of a number, but we were really really hammered. Not only that from the preceding 18 months our performance had dipped massively, and lots of players looked complacent and arrogant.
What Cook should remember is that the series he's referring to is the most important of the lot.
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'We've lost one Test series out of a huge number. It's not all doom and gloom as everyone says."
I think that quote from Cook is a bit worrying. Yes it's true we've lost one Test series out of a number, but we were really really hammered. Not only that from the preceding 18 months our performance had dipped massively, and lots of players looked complacent and arrogant.
What Cook should remember is that the series he's referring to is the most important of the lot.
More importantly he needs to remember just how badly outplayed we were. Australia are ok but they're nothing like good enough to justify dominating us like that. Despite the pastings in the 90s and 00s I never felt we'd completely let ourselves down, this winter we did.
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'We've lost one Test series out of a huge number. It's not all doom and gloom as everyone says."
I think that quote from Cook is a bit worrying. Yes it's true we've lost one Test series out of a number, but we were really really hammered. Not only that from the preceding 18 months our performance had dipped massively, and lots of players looked complacent and arrogant.
I don't see it as worrying, he's got to try and drum up some positivity in the camp otherwise they are beaten before a ball is bowled.
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Maybe, but I don't think anyone was saying it's all doom and gloom now and most people are looking towards the future. I'm not sure why he's dragging the winter up again. If he's going to bring it up, then he's got to expect people to talk about how bad we were in the winter and how it had been coming for 12 months before that.
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This, from Collingwood, was pretty poor too...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=87m2d6cV4F0
Look at that one again and watch Grant Elliot's run. He deliberately runs up the opposite side of the pitch to which is natural to deliberately block Sidebottom from getting to the ball, I don't think he should have any complaints really.
Disagree. I think he's barely started his run, sees Sidebottom in front of him and attempts to run round him, but ends up colliding with him. Neither his, nor Sidebottom's fault.
Collingwood should've turned down the wicket.
The natural side for him to run down is the opposite one to where the non-striker is running, that way you don't impede each other, Elliot looks at where he's dropped the ball and runs diagonally across the pitch to stop Sidebottom getting to the ball to run one of them out.
I too think Collingwood should have withdrawn the appeal but I can see why he didn't.
He should have only turned the appeal down had New Zealand decided that they weren't go to have the run. They clearly hadn't done that so the collision - which I think was just one of those things - was going to result in a wicket or a run for New Zealand. You can't have a dead ball so it really is a decision of wicket or run. Why should England lose a run? As I said Sidebottom was not at fault. Neither was the batsmen but he should have stayed where he was refusing the run so England could have withdrawn the appeal. They didn't so the run out was the correct course of action.
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Sri Lanka bat first, which means this is our chance to start batting properly again after about 18 months of under par displays. We need to take the initiative and bat with aggression, we can't just plod along.
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Sri Lanka bat first, which means this is our chance to start batting properly again after about 18 months of under par displays. We need to take the initiative and bat with aggression, we can't just plod along.
Bit of a typo there Paul ;-) !!
England: 1 Alastair Cook (capt), 2 Sam Robson, 3 Gary Ballance, 4 Ian Bell, 5 Joe Root, 6 Moeen Ali, 7 Matt Prior (wkt), 8 Chris Jordan, 9 Stuart Broad, 10 Liam Plunkett, 11 James Anderson
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Oh yeah oops! Bowl first rather. It's really important we start to play aggressive, attacking cricket and stop with our attritional stuff.
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Oh dear Robson gone, and our run of appalling opening partnership scores continues.
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Oh dear Robson gone, and our run of appalling opening partnership scores continues.
This inexperienced batting line up really puts pressure on Cook & Bell to deliver.
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Oh dear Robson gone, and our run of appalling opening partnership scores continues.
This inexperienced batting line up really puts pressure on Cook & Bell to deliver.
And that post put the poster's curse on Cook. 22-2
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So Cook fails again, his batting form for the last 18 months has been really poor. This is not a good start at all.
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So Cook fails again, his batting form for the last 18 months has been really poor. This is not a good start at all.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but he should have lost the captaincy after the hammering down under.
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So Cook fails again, his batting form for the last 18 months has been really poor. This is not a good start at all.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but he should have lost the captaincy after the hammering down under.
Agree, Cook has been hopeless lately. I notice Woakes has been left out again - they guy simply isn't getting enough game time. He sat out most of the ODI's ; this is also affecting his Warwickshire form.
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So Cook fails again, his batting form for the last 18 months has been really poor. This is not a good start at all.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but he should have lost the captaincy after the hammering down under.
Agree, Cook has been hopeless lately. I notice Woakes has been left out again - they guy simply isn't getting enough game time. He sat out most of the ODI's ; this is also affecting his Warwickshire form.
Woakes isn't quite good enough for test cricket.
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I agree, but we do have tendancy of picking players in squads and never playing them which hampers their development. Bairstow is another example.
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I agree, but we do have tendancy of picking players in squads and never playing them which hampers their development. Bairstow is another example.
You've hit on a flaw in the central contract process.
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Ballance goes, yet to be particularly impressed by him. This is now a really important time for Root, he's another whose form has not been good enough.
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I want Joe Root to return to Yorkshire, continue opening the batting for us and score loads of runs. England can fuck about all they like with somebody else moving them up and down the order then. Balance bats at five for Yorkshire, I don't understand why he's at three and Root at five.
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I want Joe Root to return to Yorkshire, continue opening the batting for us and score loads of runs. England can fuck about all they like with somebody else moving them up and down the order then. Balance bats at five for Yorkshire, I don't understand why he's at three and Root at five.
They've really messed Root, Balance and in particular Bairstow around haven't they?
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I agree, but we do have tendancy of picking players in squads and never playing them which hampers their development. Bairstow is another example.
You've hit on a flaw in the central contract process.
It shouldn't be a flaw though, I don't get why the selectors and captain won't release the players for their counties, especially for a home series where they could feasibly call them up even a couple of hours before a Test if there is an injury. The ECB make the rules so there's nothing stopping them from making a rule where a county can replace a player called up for England even mid match.
Having them sit around in the dressing room doing bugger all but ferry the drinks out is doing them and England no good at all.
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I want Joe Root to return to Yorkshire, continue opening the batting for us and score loads of runs. England can fuck about all they like with somebody else moving them up and down the order then. Balance bats at five for Yorkshire, I don't understand why he's at three and Root at five.
They've really messed Root, Balance and in particular Bairstow around haven't they?
I know I'll be accused of bias but as I've said before I only ever watch Yorkshire so can't really comment on other players but it does look that way. Last year was a prime example when Bairstow wasn't allowed to play any cricket for Yorkshire for the first two months of the season and then they wondered why he looked out of form and a little rusty when he played in the Test.
Root will no doubt end the summer batting at 10 and being a specialist bowler.
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I agree, but we do have tendancy of picking players in squads and never playing them which hampers their development. Bairstow is another example.
You've hit on a flaw in the central contract process.
It shouldn't be a flaw though, I don't get why the selectors and captain won't release the players for their counties, especially for a home series where they could feasibly call them up even a couple of hours before a Test if there is an injury. The ECB make the rules so there's nothing stopping them from making a rule where a county can replace a player called up for England even mid match.
Having them sit around in the dressing room doing bugger all but ferry the drinks out is doing them and England no good at all.
I agree.
As in football, some players need to be playing regularly to keep on the top of their form. For a bowler it's a rhythm thing for a batsman it's about being in the "zone".
Time spent in the middle playing competitive cricket is so much more beneficial than any net session.
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I wouldn't put Root at 3 when you have Cook and Bell there with him.
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I want Joe Root to return to Yorkshire, continue opening the batting for us and score loads of runs. England can fuck about all they like with somebody else moving them up and down the order then. Balance bats at five for Yorkshire, I don't understand why he's at three and Root at five.
They've really messed Root, Balance and in particular Bairstow around haven't they?
I know I'll be accused of bias but as I've said before I only ever watch Yorkshire so can't really comment on other players but it does look that way. Last year was a prime example when Bairstow wasn't allowed to play any cricket for Yorkshire for the first two months of the season and then they wondered why he looked out of form and a little rusty when he played in the Test.
Root will no doubt end the summer batting at 10 and being a specialist bowler.
I don't think that it's bias, we all want the best for our county sides and for England. The Bears are suffering with Woakes being used as a glorified drinks carrier. Hopefully they'll release him to play for us tomorrow in the T20.
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Sri Lanka's morning, only real positive are that we've scored at over 3 an over, but that's because Bell looks good. A decision is going to have to be made on Cook soon, because his performances with the bat are not acceptable.
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Sri Lanka's morning, only real positive are that we've scored at over 3 an over, but that's because Bell looks good. A decision is going to have to be made on Cook soon, because his performances with the bat are not acceptable.
Maybe stripping him of the captaincy will help him with his batting. In form he is a wonderful batsman. Trouble is there's not really a credible captaincy option other than Cook.
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Yes in form he is, but he's been out of form for 12-18 months and you need to draw a line at some point. Maybe dropping him as captain is an option, because although there aren't lots of obvious candidates his principle role is as a batsman.
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Bell is playing aggressively which is what we need.
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Bell gone LBW....:(
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Oh dear, but he still had the right mind set.
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England have not passed 400 in their last 26 innings - against New Zealand at Wellington in March 2013 was the most recent - and they have managed 300 only twice in the last 11 attempts.
That is our problem highlighted in a stat.
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Root looking much more at home in the middle order and Moeen is really looking the part.
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listening to TMS and dare I say it they both sound ok in the middle...
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At the moment Ali is looking like a better option than Ballance when Stokes comes back.
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I want Joe Root to return to Yorkshire, continue opening the batting for us and score loads of runs. England can fuck about all they like with somebody else moving them up and down the order then. Balance bats at five for Yorkshire, I don't understand why he's at three and Root at five.
They've really messed Root, Balance and in particular Bairstow around haven't they?
I know I'll be accused of bias but as I've said before I only ever watch Yorkshire so can't really comment on other players but it does look that way. Last year was a prime example when Bairstow wasn't allowed to play any cricket for Yorkshire for the first two months of the season and then they wondered why he looked out of form and a little rusty when he played in the Test.
Root will no doubt end the summer batting at 10 and being a specialist bowler.
I don't think that it's bias, we all want the best for our county sides and for England. The Bears are suffering with Woakes being used as a glorified drinks carrier. Hopefully they'll release him to play for us tomorrow in the T20.
They wont release Woakes as he'll be on drinks duty.....I don't agree with the system where a player is constantly sitting around kicking his heels.
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Moeen Ali looks a good player on his debut. To think Warwickshire allowed him to leave for Worcestershire in 2006 and favoured Alex Loudon at the time. Loudon promptly left the game to pursue a business career in 2007 and dated Pippa Middleton for a while. Not a great decision by the Bears, always thought Ali looked a class act.
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It's a good thing our run-rate has improved on recent times, because Sri Lanka's appalling over rate would mean under the old regime we'd have scored about 125 by now.
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Ali did well, disappointing he got out but he's shown enough with the bat. It's a big innings for Prior now.
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The middle order have done well here and our run rate is still up which is good.
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Superb from Root and Prior, this pitch will be excellent throughout tomorrow probably not bad on day three but I wouldn't fancy batting on it last. Get 400+ and we're in a very good position to win this.
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Yeah excellent from Root and Prior, that score has probably saved Prior's international career.
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Proud day for Yorkshire seeing our Joe score a century and Fred and Bernard getting to play for Brazil in the World Cup.
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Reserve keeper behind the stumps for Sri lanka this morning. Jayawardene injured his hand in the warm ups and is off to hospital.
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They've certainly gone for it today with 100 runs coming off 18 overs for the loss of two wickets. Hopefully we can reach 500 something which we did not manage in 2013.
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Good to see us being aggressive and taking the game to a team and actually passing 400.
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500 up.
We barely scored 500 in the whole winter.
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Come on, we've got more than enough runs now.
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Come on you lot, when England are struggling there are plenty of posts on here, been a bit quiet today!
Brilliant from Joe Root, he'll be batting at 7 next Test.
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Excellent from Root and the middle/lower order in general. Need to make some inroads with the ball now.
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We're really going to miss Swann on this pitch. Cook only trusted Ali to bowl three overs, it looks like he will go the same way as Kerrigan in the Oval test last year. If Cook doesn't trust him with the ball then why pick him in part for his bowling?
Sri Lanka looked well set last night. It could be a long day.
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This pitch is just pretty dead.
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#Yorkshire
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Fair play to Ballance, earned the right to accelerate and get his century. Big mention for Jordan as well, he played a very important innings to give us a bit of stability, which led to the big scoring towards the end, I'm really impressed by his attitude when he's come in.
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Well done Ballance and Jordan, excellent work. Cook continues to be a concern.
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I've got to say Plunkett hasn't bowled at the pace I expected since he came back. The majority of the time he's in the mid 80s.
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This looks like a draw to me but it can all change in a session, if we let these 2 build a partnership towards tea they'll start to fancy their chances of knocking us around in the final session. Another wicket early after lunch is really important for me.
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Yep I agree, and I like Jordan but he's been poor today. I've not seen a lot from Plunkett to suggest he's noticeably better than he was when he last played for England.
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This looks like a draw to me but it can all change in a session, if we let these 2 build a partnership towards tea they'll start to fancy their chances of knocking us around in the final session. Another wicket early after lunch is really important for me.
I can't see them getting 390 in a day to win a test.
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As I said, I think they'd have had a look if they'd got to tea at 200-1 (ish) - the wicket just has removed any possibility of them going for it (in my opinion) . We need to see if we can put together a really aggressive spell and get 2-3 close together.
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258 off 45 overs is certainly doable, with these two in we're not safe.
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I can't see either of these being willing to risk giving away their wicket on the chase though, I think they'll accept the draw from here, before they could take a risk safe in the knowledge that they had the genuinely world class Jayawardene on the balcony if it went wrong, now there's only really Mathews with any great pedigree to come in if one of these falls.
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I'd say it's unlikely but not impossible. I think the greater concern is that the fact that Sri Lanka had a 100 - 5 on this pitch yesterday.
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It's going to take a very special performance from our attack to take the 7 wickets that we need to win this one and it's unlikely to happen. Sri Lanka aren't interested in a win so this one will peter out as a draw. The worst kind of test cricket.
Edit.....Jimmy just bagged Sangha so who knows!
Edit # 2 another wicket for Jimmy 170 - 5
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Two in the over from Jimmy, the Sri Lankan tail doesn't wag that often and a new ball due before the end. Game on!
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Might regret not declaring earlier last night now.
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Two in the over from Jimmy, the Sri Lankan tail doesn't wag that often and a new ball due before the end. Game on!
If they are still getting reverse swing they might not even take the new ball for the 10 odd overs.
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Two in the over from Jimmy, the Sri Lankan tail doesn't wag that often and a new ball due before the end. Game on!
If they are still getting reverse swing they might not even take the new ball for the 10 odd overs.
I'm following the game on Cricinfo at work. They're suggesting that the ball has only just started to reverse. That's incredible for a ball that is 63 overs old.
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Two in the over from Jimmy, the Sri Lankan tail doesn't wag that often and a new ball due before the end. Game on!
If they are still getting reverse swing they might not even take the new ball for the 10 odd overs.
I'm following the game on Cricinfo at work. They're suggesting that the ball has only just started to reverse. That's incredible for a ball that is 63 overs old.
Very unusual. I am listening on TMS and Tuffers says they are now polishing the ball with renewed vigour.
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Jordan's first 3 overs of the day went for 22. The next 14 gave 9 maidens and 2 for 12. Anderson will get all the plaudits but that's a very good bowling performance for a debutant.
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Busy with the football. Did we win?
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I tell you what, whatever happens the bowlers have done a great job today on a very flat deck. As Paul says Jordan's come back was brilliant. I would say Plunkett needs to show something at Headingly or he's under threat.
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Matthews gone, Jimmy has done brilliantly.
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Two wickets needed off three overs... Maybe, just maybe...
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Not sure why Plunkett is on rather than Jordan if Broad has a problem.
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Enough short bowling.
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That's the game I think, great effort in the end though.
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Come on Broady.
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Well well 9 down!
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No idea why he walked, that isn't out.
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Terrible decision from the umpire that was a massive inside edge.
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Draw, well that was serious drama. Brilliant stuff in the end.
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Great finish.
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A bizarre way for me to "watch"' the end of a Test Match, via the BBC website sat in the Prudential Mall in Boston
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I'm afraid Cook cost us that match there, insane setting them nearly 400 to get on the last day. Should have had a bowl at them for the last hour or so last night. Cooks negativity summed up in one test.
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I'm not sure on that at all, you knock 60 runs off our total and it would have been very gettable today. I think we needed those runs, it was the collapse that killed us.
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Shame England couldn't quite get there, but a great test match and an advert for the format. Sri Lanka battled hard and deserved their draw.
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You also need the intangible benefit of the Ballance ton for his confidence in future. I would have let him get his hundred.
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I'm not sure on that at all, you knock 60 runs off our total and it would have been very gettable today. I think we needed those runs, it was the collapse that killed us.
How many tests have been won by someone scoring 330ish on the last day? I'd wager a handful. He's too negative for me.
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West Indies v Australia 09/05/2003 West Indies win by 3 wickets 418
Australia v South Africa 17/12/2008 South Africa won by 6 wickets. 414
New Zealand v West Indies 27/02/1969 West Indies win by 5 wickets 348
England v West Indies 28/06/1984 West Indies win by 9 wickets 344
South Africa v Australia 15/03/2002 South Africa win by 5 wickets 340
Australia v England 29/12/1928 England win by 3 wickets 332
Those are the highest 4th innings run chases in history. So we set them the 3 highest chase ever all on the final day just in case something goes terribly and historically wrong rather than have a bowl for an hour.... come on, have some faith in the bowlers. Really really poor captaincy that.
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I don't think he should have declared last night. The target only got up to 390 because Ballance got a shimmy on in last half hour to get a ton. If he had declared with forty minutes to go, Sri Lanka would have needed three an over. Very gettable on that flat pitch, especially considering how serenely they started this morning
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They should have got the rate going earlier. We don't have a killer instinct under Cook because his natural instinct is to protect. For me, on any pitch in the world, getting nearly 400 on the last day of a test is unheard of.
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So you accelerate earlier, lose wickets and get bowled out for a 300 lead, Sri Lanka knock off 70-80 of those before the close and you're looking at a very gettable 220-230 on the last day.
I think Cook would have ideally declared with a few overs to go but as mentioned before, Ballance was on for a maiden Test hundred, something which could pay huge dividends in the near future, I have no problem with the decision and it so nearly paid off.
Wonderful Test Match either way, Test cricket is NOT dying, it is ace.
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I was disappointed that we didn't push on sooner but I can understand why we couldn't.
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What a test match. Nearly 1,600 runs; 36 wickets, a double ton, 3 other centuries. No 5-fers and other than an England win what else could you wish for in a test that seemed dead at tea on the last day?
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It was good to see us bowling to innovative fields in the last session as well, well done to Cook there.
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Interesting to see Moores specifically mention Kerrigan, Riley and Panesar as options alongside Ali if he can become more of a wicket taking threat.
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Interesting to see Moores specifically mention Kerrigan, Riley and Panesar as options alongside Ali if he can become more of a wicket taking threat.
None of those are filling me with any optimism. Panesar is the pick on them but he seems to be on a downward spiral of self-destruction.
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I think Kerrigan will be a good player, we just brought him in in completely the wrong circumstances previously.
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I think Kerrigan will be a good player, we just brought him in in completely the wrong circumstances previously.
I agree, I really like the look of Kerrigan, he's a lot like Swann was at that age, clearly some talent but sometimes struggles to put it together and sometimes looks a bit lost.
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I think Kerrigan will be a good player, we just brought him in in completely the wrong circumstances previously.
I agree, I really like the look of Kerrigan, he's a lot like Swann was at that age, clearly some talent but sometimes struggles to put it together and sometimes looks a bit lost.
It's to Kerrigan's advantage that Moores will know his game inside out from his spell as coach as Lancashire.
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Interesting interview with fellow Villan Ian Bell ahead of his 100th test:
Ian Bell (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-sri-lanka-2014/content/current/story/753601.html)
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Interesting that Cook has really bitten back against the criticism he's received.
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Interesting that Cook has really bitten back against the criticism he's received.
I'm quite surprised by it really. He must really be feeling the pressure. For all his skill and guile as a bowler, Warne is now just an opinionated Aussie working in the media.
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Interesting that Cook has really bitten back against the criticism he's received.
I'm quite surprised by it really. He must really be feeling the pressure. For all his skill and guile as a bowler, Warne is now just an opinionated Aussie working in the media.
The only way Cook will stop him is to score a ton of runs.He should let his bat do the talking and don't forget the fat Aussie is mates with KP.
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My thoughts exactly, Warne is best mates with Pietersen, him and Morgan are tedious.
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We won the toss and have put Sri Lanka in.
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Should be interesting, I expect a lot more from Plunkett today.
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First impressions are the pitch doesn't look particularly fast.
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Had they listened to Broad that would have been out.
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Good start from Jordan.
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Jordan had an excellent spell with no luck.
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Need a wicket.
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That is terrible from Prior.
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Great catch Jordan.
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Plunkett flying he's on a hat trick!
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pretty good performance so far from england, Cook has kept the catchers in which is a big improvement on the last 12-18months from him.
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Yep it's just a shame Prior had that really poor drop of Sanga.
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Disappointing crowd today.
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This is just beginning to slip away from us a bit.
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We badly need a wicket now.
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There we go, what a catch from Bell.
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Another, great delivery from Plunkett.
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and another!
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Great come back from England just what we needed as the game was starting to slip away from us.
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And another! Broad on a hat trick.
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I think that was a hat trick anyway, didn't he get Sangakkara with the last ball of the previous over?
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I think that was a hat trick anyway, didn't he get Sangakkara with the last ball of the previous over?
Yes.
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I think that was a hat trick anyway, didn't he get Sangakkara with the last ball of the previous over?
Surely that's the first time a bowler has got a hat trick without knowing it.
Really good spell this, put us in a very strong position
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Yeah I've never seen it happen when no one on the field had a clue.
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Poor from Ballance there.
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5 wickets for Plunkett. This is really important for Cook and Robson now.
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Jordan was unlucky today he deserved a couple of wickets.
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5 wickets for Plunkett. This is really important for Cook and Robson now.
Huge hour for Cook and Robson.
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Excellent from Cook and Robson to bat out that hour and a bit.
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Excellent from Cook and Robson to bat out that hour and a bit.
It was. They now need to build on it in the morning.
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Which they didn't! Cook goes early.
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Another failure with the bat from Cook, does his captaincy make up for our most experienced batsman averaging about 20 for the last 18 months?
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There should be plenty of runs to be had on that wicket as well.
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Robson looking really solid today, and Ballance with a good knock again. Good to see the young players making immediate impacts.
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Cook failing and another collapse is a worry. Well done to Robson, but we've got to watch our run rate slowing down again.
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This pitch is doing a lot.
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Really simple from Jordan, not a good start.
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Pretty ordinary from Anderson and Broad so far. Batsmen have been able to leave way too many deliveries.
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Broad and Anderson weren't great today, important wickets from Mooen towards the end of the day. It's delicately poised at the moment.
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Thought Cook should have had Mo on earlier, as the commentators keep reminding us he's a 'part-timer' but if he can continue going at 2.5 an over and pick up the odd wicket he can rotate the quicks around him and keep them fresh.
Personally I think Mo bowls enough in county cricket to be regarded as better than part time (but that would involve commentators watching some cricket they aren't paid for) and is the best option until a spinner puts their hand up and demands to be picked.
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Which commentators? Those on TMS seem to spend their time doing nothing but watch cricket so I think that's a bit unfair on them if that's the case.
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This was the sky ones, Strauss etc
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This is a pretty critical day for Moores even though it's early in his reign. We lost the T20, we lost the ODI series, we can't really afford to lose the Test series.
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This is a pretty critical day for Moores even though it's early in his reign. We lost the T20, we lost the ODI series, we can't really afford to lose the Test series.
yep, do not want to be chasing 250 or more.....
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Really poor first half hour from England.
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Sounds like we were bowling for the new ball rather than trying to get anything out of the old one. We really need to get a few wickets with it now.
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We do need something now.
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Needed that wicket badly, we need to skittle them now.
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one more and we are into the bowlers.....
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nice one Liam......come on skittle them out before lunch....
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We really need to knock them over quick now, anything over 200 will probably be tough.
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Jimmy hasn't been great.
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on TMS he sounds poor....:)
need to get these out....
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Jimmy hasn't been great.
For about a year. Had a brilliant test at Trent Bridge and has struggled ever since. He looks his best for a few overs here and there but when it's not going for him his line has been appalling.
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The worry is that neither Jimmy or Broad have bowled particularly well in this match. I rate Jordan but he hasn't taken any wickets. This match is pretty close to being strongly in Sri Lanka's favour.
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We really need to knock them over quick now, anything over 200 will probably be tough.
Yep. Whatever they get now is going to be a major test for our young batting line up. Time to stand up Captain Cook!!
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We've dropped far too many catches and bowled too many extras as well.
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Cook is badly letting this slip, we should have Ali on now we need a change.
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Cook is badly letting this slip, we should have Ali on now we need a change.
could be the end of Cook as captain.....not a hint of inventive captaincy and just using the bowling attack in the same old way hoping something happens.....also well played Sri Lanka !
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Matthews is playing brilliantly but we look completely out of ideas. If we lose this, then Moores will already be under pressure.
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Matthews is playing brilliantly but we look completely out of ideas. If we lose this, then Moores will already be under pressure.
Bloody hell, give the poor bloke some time. After the first Test it was Plunkett under pressure and now it's the new coach after two, bit of patience is required.
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Cookie looking all washed up again. No way we needed nearly 400 last game and no idea here. No runs from him either. His captaincy has got to be living on borrowed time, it's shit.
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Matthews is playing brilliantly but we look completely out of ideas. If we lose this, then Moores will already be under pressure.
Bloody hell, give the poor bloke some time. After the first Test it was Plunkett under pressure and now it's the new coach after two, bit of patience is required.
I'm not saying I'd have him under pressure, but he will be. Most of it won't be his fault either, it'll be the legacy of the Ashes. Cook's position is becoming difficult though.
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Herath closing in on 50....:(
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Let's see when the Sri Lankans declare compared to us last test. My guess is they will be as conservative, given the chance.
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The worry is that Australia was seen as the end of a team and this was meant to be the new start. We're possibly facing losing at all forms of the game to Sri Lanka in May/June in England, that would be a really bad start for the new regime. It is vital Cook gets runs in the second innings.
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I think Cook is cooked to be honest, his batting has fallen apart, with his average this year well below that of an international class opener (it's a touch over 15), he's failed to put teams under pressure at the right times, he's held back and been painfully negative almost consistently and, worst of all, he can no longer justify any of that by pointing at results.
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at fecking last....a run out ! TEA...
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No it's looking pretty bad for him and this session has been desperate. We look devoid of ideas and we're being run into the ground.
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One of the problems is that there isn't an outstanding candidate to replace Cook.
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One of the problems is that there isn't an outstanding candidate to replace Cook.
That is the problem, Bell or Broad I guess fit the criteria of being in the side.
Cook looks like a man with weight of world on his shoulders, certainly seems a while since he was the man with the bat!
Yay, all out! Now let's see some backbone England!
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350 to win......27 overs left tonight with 90 tomorrow...doable and England could/will collapse....mmmm
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One of the problems is that there isn't an outstanding candidate to replace Cook.
That is the problem, Bell or Broad I guess fit the criteria of being in the side.
Cook looks like a man with weight of world on his shoulders, certainly seems a while since he was the man with the bat!
Yay, all out! Now let's see some backbone England!
For me it'd be Bell as temporary captain for the visit of India and the return trip to Sri Lanka and then see where we're at. I'm not convinced he'd want it or be suited to it but right now he's the only player with any experience who is undroppable (with Ballance and Plunkett also undroppable. Aside from those only really Jordan and Robson deserve to be automatic choices and that's largely because they've done a decent job in the 2 tests they've had a chance in and deserve a chance to see if they can carry on with that).
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This is dismal it's not all Cook's fault at all, Anderson and Broad really let him down as senior bowlers in this innings. It's been a woeful day and now the Sri Lanka's bowlers are showing us how to bowl. However I really think Cook has to go as captain now, whether it's his fault or not he's not getting his team performing and for a year now he hasn't justified his place in the team.
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Awful 57-5.
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That is up there with our darkest days in the Ashes in the winter.
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The biggest issue is that when you're chasing a big total in the 4th innings you need to be able to trust your openers and captain to do the business and set an example. Cook has just done exactly that but in nothing like the way he needed to.
He needs to be replaced, even if only for a couple of games so he can play some county games and try to get his form back. Right now he's an average captain and a rabbit in the crease. It's doing him no favours to stick with him at the top of the order.
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Completely agree, this day has been an absolute shambles. Our bowlers got smashed and our batsmen looked like amateurs.
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Shows how much a joke setting the huge total last test was as well. Captain has no testicles.
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I don't think it shows that at all, but we were absolutely atrocious in every aspect of the game. Cook shouldn't survive this as captain now, and frankly his place in the team should be seriously under threat. Also the level of performance here suggests maybe KP wasn't the issue then Downton?
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We will have to agree to disagree on that one, never should 350+ be required to win a test match unless you have no faith in your team.
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Let's face it we're an embarrassment.
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It is embarrassing the majority of the performances over the last 6 - 8 months have been as bad as I've seen and that includes the 90s.
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I don't think it shows that at all, but we were absolutely atrocious in every aspect of the game. Cook shouldn't survive this as captain now, and frankly his place in the team should be seriously under threat. Also the level of performance here suggests maybe KP wasn't the issue then Downton?
I agree on the last bit, I've been pretty clear in my support of KP, it was pretty obvious that him and Cook didn't get on, Cook used the shit performance down under as an excuse to boot KP out but the problems were much deeper than that. As I said earlier right now we have 3 players who deserve to stay in the side without question in Bell, Ballance and Plunkett, then 2-3 who are probably safe but need to show more in Root, Robson and Jordan. Broad and Jimmy are both good bowlers but with Cook as captain they're bowling to protect their economy rate as much as they are to win games, both need to be willing to bowl to a field where they can concede runs so we can get more catchers in when things aren't working, the spread fields protecting the boundaries and offering up cheap singles are killing us. The worst thing is they had the catcher in for the first innings here and showed we can play like that, yet we abandoned it as soon as they built a partnership in their 2nd innings and ended up handing the series over as tamely as you'll ever see.
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I'd like to add that Bowden had a bloody shocker today as well.
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We will have to agree to disagree on that one, never should 350+ be required to win a test match unless you have no faith in your team.
I will stand by what I said last week. We weren't in a dominant position until the last half hour of that day. The fact we got them nine down gave the Cook out brigade more ammunition and it masked a stunning bowling effort to even get that close.
I think Cook is on the brink and probably a series away from resignation, but the declaration is the wrong stick to beat him with. The tactical nous and lack of faith in anyone but his mates is more valid
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We will have to agree to disagree on that one, never should 350+ be required to win a test match unless you have no faith in your team.
I will stand by what I said last week. We weren't in a dominant position until the last half hour of that day. The fact we got them nine down gave the Cook out brigade more ammunition and it masked a stunning bowling effort to even get that close.
I think Cook is on the brink and probably a series away from resignation, but the declaration is the wrong stick to beat him with. The tactical nous and lack of faith in anyone but his mates is more valid
I don't agree with either of those, Cook has 3 major problems:
1. He lets the senior bowlers pick their own fields too often, it means Broad and Jimmy are often bowling to a 'safe' field rather than an attacking one when the situation is such that we need to counter attack rather than limit damage. Jimmy in particular walks all over him with the field placings.
2. His batting form is so poor that he isn't being picked on it's merit, in a winning team that'd be ok, as soon as we're losing it's a big problem. Regardless of whether he stays as captain or not he needs to put some massive effort in with the bat and get himself back up to the standard expected of an international opener. The last 2 series have been utterly woeful, he's been out-performed by debutants in Carberry and Robson.
3. He isn't having an influence on the game, look at the performance of Mathews today, we had them totally on the ropes then the captain comes on and hits 150 and completely changes the game. When was the last time Cook changed a game in our favour, either with inspired captaincy or a brilliant batting performance?
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We should have accelerated earlier. We had a lead of 250 and then batted another 37 overs to see off the day. Not the kind of aggressive cricket that is going to force results. It was over kill.
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Imagine declaring too early and losing or Ballance and Jordan trying to hit their way out of trouble and England collapsing. That Lords pitch was still a flat one and Cook would have got more criticism had we lost that. Instead, he is being punished for getting so close to forcing a win. Part of he reason we got close was the attacking fields he could set without worrying that Sri Lanka could chase it down.
I am not saying he's blameless. I don't think he deserves to stay in the role, but I see no one else who could do it. I just think the declaration is the wrong stick to beat him with when there's many other things to have a pop at
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I think a pretty damning thing is that Downton referred to Cook as 'Cookie', the Chief Exec shouldn't have that sort of relationship with the captain.
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It is embarrassing the majority of the performances over the last 6 - 8 months have been as bad as I've seen and that includes the 90s.
It's the lack of ideas when things clearly aren't working that has been most apparent. How many tmes in the last year have we had teams in trouble, only for them turn it around with big partnerships and innings. Jimmy Anderson now needs exactly the right conditions to make an impact, Broad loses his head and tries to play the big man, and we don't have a front line spinner.
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Cook is a poor captain in poor form.Problem for the ECB is they need to back him because of KP.
No wonder Andy Flower got out when he did.
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Cook isn't a good captain end of. England need a strong leader - Cook isn't. Losing Strauss, Swann & Pietersen recently has really knocked the team.
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Good knock from Mooen this.
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Fantastic 100 from Ali, class and character.
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FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.
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Lost in the last 2 balls, I'm gutted for Mooen he was brilliant and didn't deserve to lose. However frankly our pathetic performance yesterday cost us the game. Positives in this series are the return to form of Root, Ballance's hundred and Ali's brilliance today.
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If the top order has showed anywhere near the courage of the bottom order we would have been alright. Massive question marks over Cook, Jimmy's bowling and Prior's wicket keeping.
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OK in the end England got what they deserved for 4 days of pathetic cricket but this should not detract from the great effort Ali put in. There is something to build on for the future.
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OK in the end England got what they deserved for 4 days of pathetic cricket but this should not detract from the great effort Ali put in. There is something to build on for the future.
Yep agreed, I think it also showed how poor Cook has been. Ali was magnificent and I believe he's the most impressive of the new players for me, he has real class about his play and his bowling will develop.
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As is typical of England I bet Ali is dropped for the India series.
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Cook isn't a good captain end of. England need a strong leader - Cook isn't. Losing Strauss, Swann & Pietersen recently has really knocked the team.
Good point, and you could add Trott to that list as well.
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Well I think Cook will stay, so he needs to make runs asap and gain a tactical brain. He also needs to learn to trust the spinner, Ali wasn't bowled anywhere near enough. Jimmy and Broad's new ball bowling needs to be a lot better and Prior still has big question marks against him. Jordan will come good, his bowling in the first innings wasn't really rewarded. Ali is the most promising of the new players for me, he is a class batsman.
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I'm happy to be patient with the team, we are in a massive re-building stage and there's plenty to take from the younger players in this series.
Cook has become a huge worry. I was happy to cut him some slack in Australia where I felt he was badly let down by his senior players. Not so now, he needs runs desperately as he's currently neither good enough as batsman or captain to be in the side. Has a skipper ever been dropped?
Incredible to think that all the concerns now surround Cook, Prior and Anderson. Who would have thought that 12 months ago.
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One thing from yesterday, Jimmy's reaction at the end showed finally that the arrogance that had been surrounding the team seems to have gone.
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So the new head of the ICC is currently under investigation for being involved in match fixing, ridiculous.
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So the new head of the ICC is currently under investigation for being involved in match fixing, ridiculous.
On the plus side he'll fit right in!
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Changes needed for India obviously. Robson has been okay but I don't think he's ready. Given the resolute nature of his batting I think Ali could be piushed up to open but I doubt that will happen. Stokes needs to come back and it's obvious that we need more experience in the middle order but we've made a rod for our own back by saying Pietersen will not play again.
I don't think Jordan is either good enough or ready for the test team at the moment, but the team is lacking in the bowling department at the moment. A specialist spinner is needed but there isn't one out there. Panesar really isn't it. He'll have one good test and then bowl the same ball in every single over and every single game thereafter.
Problem for the team is the lack of consistency right through. Ballance, Root, Ali all played one good innings but technique and experience let them down otherwise. I'd like to take Root out but that's not possible at the moment. A middle order of Trott, Pietersen, Bell would allow Root to return to county cricket for some time away from the pressure of test cricket, which he has been found wanting at more often than not. But, he is there because he is now one of the more expereinced players and dropping him would just expose us even more.
Cook
Robson - simply because I don't think they'll only give him two tests
Bell
Root
Ali
Ballance
Stokes
Prior
Broad
Anderson
Rankin if fit and taking wickets if not then who's that Hampshire spinner? May as well try and few out until we find a dependable one.
Despite Plunkett's good return in the last test he was part of the poor bowling on the 4th day that led to the defeat. I'd ditch and move forward.
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I think Jordan's figures didn't reflect his performance. He was probably the best bowler in the first innings, he just didn't get any reward. I think he's an excellent prospect.
-
Boycott
Hutton
Vaughan
Close
Root
Balance
Binks
Verity
Old
Trueman
Gough
Fred will bowl 45 overs a day from one end if need be.
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I see Warne has written another article saying Cook should quit. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts now.
-
Boycott
Hutton
Vaughan
Close
Root
Balance
Binks
Verity
Old
Trueman
Gough
Fred will bowl 45 overs a day from one end if need be.
I see you spelt Ballance incorrectly Chris!
Oh and I don't believe a whole team from Yorkshire is entirely fair!
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Changes needed for India obviously. Robson has been okay but I don't think he's ready. Given the resolute nature of his batting I think Ali could be piushed up to open but I doubt that will happen. Stokes needs to come back and it's obvious that we need more experience in the middle order but we've made a rod for our own back by saying Pietersen will not play again.
I don't think Jordan is either good enough or ready for the test team at the moment, but the team is lacking in the bowling department at the moment. A specialist spinner is needed but there isn't one out there. Panesar really isn't it. He'll have one good test and then bowl the same ball in every single over and every single game thereafter.
Problem for the team is the lack of consistency right through. Ballance, Root, Ali all played one good innings but technique and experience let them down otherwise. I'd like to take Root out but that's not possible at the moment. A middle order of Trott, Pietersen, Bell would allow Root to return to county cricket for some time away from the pressure of test cricket, which he has been found wanting at more often than not. But, he is there because he is now one of the more expereinced players and dropping him would just expose us even more.
Cook
Robson - simply because I don't think they'll only give him two tests
Bell
Root
Ali
Ballance
Stokes
Prior
Broad
Anderson
Rankin if fit and taking wickets if not then who's that Hampshire spinner? May as well try and few out until we find a dependable one.
Despite Plunkett's good return in the last test he was part of the poor bowling on the 4th day that led to the defeat. I'd ditch and move forward.
I think you're being a bit harsh on the younger players. The're the ones who HAVE performed so far. It's the senior players who have let us down.
-
Boycott
Hutton
Vaughan
Close
Root
Ballance
Binks
Verity
Old
Trueman
Gough
Fred will bowl 45 overs a day from one end if need be.
I see you spelt Ballance incorrectly Chris!
Oh and I don't believe a whole team from Yorkshire is entirely fair!
No idea what you mean Simon! Yorkshire have got enough good youngsters to cover for those on Test duty, we'll be reet.
-
I see Warne has written another article saying Cook should quit. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts now.
Cook had opened the door,he deserves everything he gets off him now.And I can't stand Warne.
-
Changes needed for India obviously. Robson has been okay but I don't think he's ready. Given the resolute nature of his batting I think Ali could be piushed up to open but I doubt that will happen. Stokes needs to come back and it's obvious that we need more experience in the middle order but we've made a rod for our own back by saying Pietersen will not play again.
I don't think Jordan is either good enough or ready for the test team at the moment, but the team is lacking in the bowling department at the moment. A specialist spinner is needed but there isn't one out there. Panesar really isn't it. He'll have one good test and then bowl the same ball in every single over and every single game thereafter.
Problem for the team is the lack of consistency right through. Ballance, Root, Ali all played one good innings but technique and experience let them down otherwise. I'd like to take Root out but that's not possible at the moment. A middle order of Trott, Pietersen, Bell would allow Root to return to county cricket for some time away from the pressure of test cricket, which he has been found wanting at more often than not. But, he is there because he is now one of the more expereinced players and dropping him would just expose us even more.
Cook
Robson - simply because I don't think they'll only give him two tests
Bell
Root
Ali
Ballance
Stokes
Prior
Broad
Anderson
Rankin if fit and taking wickets if not then who's that Hampshire spinner? May as well try and few out until we find a dependable one.
Despite Plunkett's good return in the last test he was part of the poor bowling on the 4th day that led to the defeat. I'd ditch and move forward.
I think you're being a bit harsh on the younger players. The're the ones who HAVE performed so far. It's the senior players who have let us down.
Yeah I think you can argue a case for all the new players staying in. Robson got a really good century at Headingley, Plunkett(returning rather than new) did very well at Headingley, Ali's century was outstanding and he got a couple of key wickets, Ballance got a key century at Lords and Jordan was excellent at Lords and bowled really well in the first innings at Headingley without reward.
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I can't wait for the second day of the first Test against India! My brother and Mike Procter are the lunchtime guests of Test Match Special where they will be discussing the work of the Sporting Memories Network, this will undoubtedly the greatest sporting achievement of any member of our family.
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Ask him to get a Villa reference in. Thanks.
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Ask him to get a Villa reference in. Thanks.
If they are doing a phone in I could remind him of the time we were kids arguing about football and his comeback was 'well there's only one Villa and that's Port Vale.' I've never let him forget that.
-
It sounds sensible that they want to rotate the seamers a bit more over the summer. I think Anderson and Broad have suffered in the past by being over bowled and we need others to step up.
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I'd be tempted to give Woakes a go simply because of the reports about him being a yard and a half faster - his batting we know about. He's a better bowler than Stokes but the latter the better bat. But is it changing for chnaging sake? We lost against Sri Lanka and at times our bowling drifted so changes need to be made and we need solidity in the middle order which is where Woakes would come in for me.
Cook
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Ali
Prior
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
It's a bit of a tricky one that none of the top 6 from the Sri Lanka series can be dropped a sthey all scored 100s except of course for the captain. Being Nottingham I'd expect Broad and Anderson to play despite calls for them to be rotated and although we need one ther eisn't a spinner out there who can do the job so no point wasting a slot.
I'd drop Jordan because I don't think he's good enough and also Plunkett because when it wasn't going well he reminded me of all those English plodders who kept bowling short and without too much zip. If Woakes is going to be repeatedly selected they may as well have a look at him in an meaningful test match and not a dead rubber.
The team has one too many batsmen for me but the only one I'd drop is the captain. Or Root. Hopefully he can concentrate on being a batsman and not the team's agent provocateur.
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Disagree on Jordan, he has a real talent and that should be harnessed. He has wicket taking ability, he's an excellent fielder and a very handy bat. We need to rotate the seamers so we don't run Anderson and Broad into the ground.
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To be fair I think that's an excuse. The selectors are running scared. The reality is that behind Broad and Anderson on the World Stage there is little else. I think that if the selectors do drop one or the other its more likely that they're doing to see what's behind and if they can cope and then exist, and hopefully excel, in the test arena. Otherwise, there is no point dropping one or the other of your two best bowlers. Anderson hasn't got many more miles left in him and Broad is injury prone. So, whilst he should now be looking to lead our attack who's on marginally better a bowler than he was when he first burst onto the scene.
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I also think it would be wrong to drop Jordan, 5wickets in his first 2 matches is ok and he scored some important runs at times. There are other people who have been just as inconsistent but who have had much more of a chance.
The argument for dropping one of Broad or Anderson is that both of them have Cook in their pocket. Part of our negativity is that they both insist on field placings which protect the boundaries unless they're totally dominating and Cook seems incapable of of forcing the issue, they need to know that they aren't untouchable.
Of the top 6 the only one you can justify leaving out is the only one who has no chance of being left out.
I think the only change will be to bring Stokes back in, but I'm not sure who for, Broad or Plunkett for this one for me, Plunkett did well but I worry he's a bit one-dimensional.
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Yeah I agree on Plunkett, he did well but he does seem a bit one dimensional. Jordan will develop consistency, but he's already shown he's comfortably good enough for international cricket.
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Andrew Strauss overheard calling Kevin Pietersen a cu#t on Sky Sports earlier. Apparently it was during a commercial break but viewers in Australia were still viewing.
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Jordan has a spark about him, other players who had similar characteristics include Botham & Flintoff.
I'd pick him he's a potential game changer.
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Andrew Strauss overheard calling Kevin Pietersen a cu#t on Sky Sports earlier. Apparently it was during a commercial break but viewers in Australia were still viewing.
I'm surprised that Strauss even knows such colourful language! Then again he more than most would know the truth about Pietersen.
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Andrew Strauss overheard calling Kevin Pietersen a cu#t on Sky Sports earlier. Apparently it was during a commercial break but viewers in Australia were still viewing.
I'm surprised that Strauss even knows such colourful language! Then again he more than most would know the truth about Pietersen.
I have been fortunate enough to have the opportunity to attend a lot of first class cricket at Edgbaston and New Road in the last 3 seasons, and I have met a lot of people who had dealings with KP. The vast majority have very little good to say beyond the obvious fact that the guy is extremely talented. And I am being diplomatic.
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Just saw, in a a report from The Torygraph, that the remark was made to Nick Knight.
Imagine my surprise.
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Didn't he say F not c? Anyway, I've met Pietersen and other than being slightly aloof I thought he was basically okay.
Back tot he team. It seems a strange reason for dropping Broad or Anderson in that the captain cannot use his authority over them. Says more about him than them.
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Didn't he say F not c? Anyway, I've met Pietersen and other than being slightly aloof I thought he was basically okay.
Back tot he team. It seems a strange reason for dropping Broad or Anderson in that the captain cannot use his authority over them. Says more about him than them.
Absolutely, I'd rather see Cook given a tour off to get some form with the bat and see if the confidence in his own game becomes reflected in his captaincy.
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Trent Boult just took an incredible catch in the Twenty20.
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Buttler called up as cover for Prior.
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Buttler called up as cover for Prior
Prior complaining of tightness in his thigh. I like Prior but with one eye on the future then this could be a blessing.
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More importantly I'm glad it's Buttler they went with, the guy is a special talent with the bat, I get Hales in at some point as well, we need to have some counter-attack options who come with a genuine threat, I don't really see that outside our lower order (Jordan is willing to do it which is one of the main reasons I like him), Stokes coming back will help though.
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I actually think Ali is an attacking batsmen, he just played the situation brilliantly in the last Test.
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I'd put Ali more in the mould of Bell, steady, technically sound and able to play patient or positive depending on the situation, they're really important players to have (Michael Clarke is similar as well) but we could really do with a counter-attacking game changer.
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Yeah possibly, I guess a future axis of Buttler, Stokes and Jordan will be pretty useful at that.
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Yeah possibly, I guess a future axis of Buttler, Stokes and Jordan will be pretty useful at that.
Exactly, and all technically good enough to avoid be all or nothing.
I think in the past the default has been for the England team to build around the steady accumulators, which works if they're all in form but when you have a couple of them struggling you look under pressure all the time and don't have anyone capable of relieving the pressure. That's why KP was so important for us and why with him in the side we were able to push on and be the best side in the world for a short time because he did the business to relieve the pressure more often than not (he did fail and gift wrap his wicket a few times but that's to be expected of someone playing that way.
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The crowd looks a bit sparse at Edgbaston tonight
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It's ludicrous to play it on the day of a World Cup SF when both teams have been free all weekend.
Cricket seems to go out of its way to dissuade fans from attending games.
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India win the toss and bat.
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Stokes in for Jordan, I do worry about our slip fielders a bit now.
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Harmison made a great point last night. Stokes is not ready to be the 4th bowler.
This side has only 3 specialist bowlers, with Plunkett consigned to shorter bursts. There's a hell of a lot of pressure on Anderson and Broad to perform here.
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Two things Cook must do is not bowl Broad and Anderson in long spells and trust Moeen Ali. Those are two of his major flaws, he bowls Broad and Anderson into the ground and they become ineffective and he doesn't give the spinner a chance except as a last resort. He has to do that if he wants to be successful.
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Stokes in for Jordan, I do worry about our slip fielders a bit now.
Can't help but think we've gone for the safe option again. It would have been harsh to drop any of the batsmen (Cook aside!!), but having Stokes as the fifth bowling option and batting at six would have been a positive move.
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Two things Cook must do is not bowl Broad and Anderson in long spells and trust Moeen Ali. Those are two of his major flaws, he bowls Broad and Anderson into the ground and they become ineffective and he doesn't give the spinner a chance except as a last resort. He has to do that if he wants to be successful.
I can just see India playing Ali effortlessly for 4/5 an over without taking any risk though.
-
Ali's bowling is massively underrated, if Cook backs him he can develop into a front line spinner.
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Woakes left to carry the drinks again? Really wasting his and the Bears time. Why couldn't he play T20 against Northants last week?
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Jimmy looks really poor again at the moment.
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England and Jimmy needed that.
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See this is the stage I think Cook should be looking at a bowling change, I don't think Jimmy and Broad should be bowling spells of longer than 5/6 overs.
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Woakes left to carry the drinks again? Really wasting his and the Bears time. Why couldn't he play T20 against Northants last week?
This is infuriating, he was clearly never in line to start so why not let him play, they ruined Bairstow doing this I hope they don't drag Woakes around as a constant 12th man.
I think dropping Jordan is harsh as well, the message being that you get 2 matches to prove you're capable of playing for England, unless you're captain in which case you get infinite patience and are allowed to kick people out of the team because you have a personality clash with them.
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I wonder how much India payed the groundstaff to produce such an ideal pitch for their batsmen?
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Come on Straussy, make it interesting with a few expletives....starting with Cook!
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Great response from England after lunch is this.
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Great response from England after lunch is this.
Cracking catch by the legend that is Ian Bell, Bear and Villa fan.
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Yes, good captaincy....dare I say? Great catching by Belly!
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Hopefully that will give Cook some confidence as a skipper. Manipulating the field to pick up a couple of wickets.
Shame Warne snt on commentary as that's just the sort of thing that if Michael Clarke had done it he'd be knocking one out all over the desk about.
Lovely to hear the dulcet tones of Bumble and Athers though in the long, dark Queensland winter. Struggled to 21c today FFS!
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I wonder how much India payed the groundstaff to produce such an ideal pitch for their batsmen?
We'll see a lot of test pitches like this, the new drainage systems that were installed at all test grounds mean that the squares drain too well which produces dead surfaces.
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Fucksticks. Botham and Ganguly are on.
Time for bed.
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Excellent since lunch.
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Good to see Cook chopping and changing things.
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This pitch really isn't good enough for Test cricket.
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Have Plunkett or Stokes looked remotely threatening?
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Not particularly.
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Oh I think Cook should have got there.
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What a catch from Cook! Plunkett gets a wicket.
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Hopefully that will give Cook some confidence as a skipper. Manipulating the field to pick up a couple of wickets.
Shame Warne snt on commentary as that's just the sort of thing that if Michael Clarke had done it he'd be knocking one out all over the desk about.
Lovely to hear the dulcet tones of Bumble and Athers though in the long, dark Queensland winter. Struggled to 21c today FFS!
They were moaning that it was on 27c when I was in Port Douglas the week before last! That cyclone thay had over Easter has done something to the weather.
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This pitch is terrible, to be keeping this low on a first day is rubbish.
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I reckon you can partly blame the ECB for this disaster of a pitch, they have started the game on Wednesday so will almost certainly have asked the groundsman for a pitch which would produce a five day Test match so they can get a decent crowd in on the Sunday. In trying to do this he has produced this flat, dead thing which has sucked all life out of the game.
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I think the blame partly lies in the fact that counties have to pay money to host international cricket. They need the games to go the distance to make it financially viable.
About time the system was changed and grounds were awarded internationals based on quality of surface, atmosphere etc
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I thought England and Cook did well on a completely dead pitch yesterday, but we really need a good morning today.
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I really think we need a third man on this pitch.
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We don't need dropped catches Prior.
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Bowling well, but we need wickets.
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We don't need dropped catches Prior.
That eas a difficult chance brought about by Prior having to stand so close due to a dead surface. A better surface that carries would've given Prior that split second longer by him standing a few yards further back. Really is a rubbish surface which will almost certainly produce a draw result.
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This is going to be a long day in the field me thinks.
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We don't need dropped catches Prior.
That eas a difficult chance brought about by Prior having to stand so close due to a dead surface. A better surface that carries would've given Prior that split second longer by him standing a few yards further back. Really is a rubbish surface which will almost certainly produce a draw result.
Never underestimate the English ability to give away cheap wickets.
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Just heard Aggers talking about the work of Sporting Memories which has lead to him and Graeme Swann now discussing their earliest cricketing memories along with Blowers having asked listeners to send theirs in. I could not be prouder of my brother!
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Hi Chris is your bro on in this lunch break ? as I ahve a chance of listening :)
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He's on with Mike Procter Doc, think Tony will talk about the work they do and Mike will talk about his career.
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Needed that wicket, we need several now though.
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He's on with Mike Procter Doc, think Tony will talk about the work they do and Mike will talk about his career.
excellent, looking forward to listening Chris...
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He's on with Mike Procter Doc, think Tony will talk about the work they do and Mike will talk about his career.
excellent, looking forward to listening Chris...
Good stuff, he's just sent me a text to say he's been watching with Aggers and Tuffers. I'm jealous!
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Clean forgot about the Test Match today.
Now tuned in to listen to Chris' brother
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Just heard Aggers talking about the work of Sporting Memories which has lead to him and Graeme Swann now discussing their earliest cricketing memories along with Blowers having asked listeners to send theirs in. I could not be prouder of my brother!
Good on him, sounds like he's worked hard to get this to the point it is now and fully deserves the exposure this will bring.
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Thanks Paul, he's devoted his life to it, he struggles for funding whilst Cameron and co have thrown £4 million at an advertising campaign for 'Dementia Friends'. One day the penny will drop.
So pleased he mentioned our dad, he loved Test Match Special and gave us both our love of cricket. He'd be a very proud man today.
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My two cricket heroes as a kid were Mike Proctor and Zaheer Abbas
I have very vague memories of County cricket at Lydney, which must have been this game..........
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/545245.html
............but they're blurred in with a later charity game that also featured Zaheer.
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Thanks Paul, he's devoted his life to it, he struggles for funding whilst Cameron and co have thrown £4 million at an advertising campaign for 'Dementia Friends'. One day the penny will drop.
So pleased he mentioned our dad, he loved Test Match Special and gave us both our love of cricket. He'd be a very proud man today.
really enjoyed that Chris, some great stories especially the one about Bill who played for Scotland v England.
give my regards to your brother as he does sterling work. UTV
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Ditto Chris, that was an excellent interview with Tony
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Thanks guys, it will mean a lot to him. If anybody wants to add a memory head over to http://www.sportingmemoriesnetwork.com/smn/ The more the merrier!
The short video about Bill is well worth a view!
Bill's Story (http://www.sportingmemoriesnetwork.com/latest-smn-news/bills-story-/)
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That was a lovely way to spend a few minutes during my lunch break. Loved the stories.
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now for some wickets....:)
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We could be back in the game here if we rediscover our ruthlessness.
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Stokes does make things happen.
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This is reward for a fine bowling display and good captaincy from Cook. Need to finish this now and then bat well.
-
one wicket to go.....
-
An annoying term has developed on TV and radio in this Test, 'funky fields'.
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Right England remember these are both tailenders, don't get caught up with trying to get the number 11 on strike.
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Don't look for the perfect ball England, do what you did previously.
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Although the stand is worth 20-odd runs it's beginning to get annoying.
We seem incapable of bowling at tail enders.
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Blowers has just surpassed himself with the ancient cricket references.
Victor Trumper played his last test in 1912 !!
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Getting frustrating now.
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They're going to get their 400 now.
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So much good work is being undone here.
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Just shows that its avery good batting wicket......
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So much good work is being undone here.
Not to jump on the bandwagon, but how many times has this happened under Cook's captaincy? Senior bowlers have to take some of the blame too.
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This is drifting quite badly.
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With a previous high score of 11, Shami brings up his 50 by hitting Anderson back over his head for six
-
457 all out including a 10th wicket stand of 111.
Pathetic.
-
And Cook fails. Again.
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Just seen my brother on his return from Trent Bridge, he had a great time and was made to feel really welcome by all. The lemon and ginger cake baked my other half was a massive hit but the Roy of the Rovers comic my son provided went down a storm and the team spent some considerable time reading and ribbing Boycott about it. Tony said he had a really great long chat with Boycott, once he learned our dad was a very good friend of an ex team mate of his he really opened up.
The best thing was the exposure Sporting Memories got and Tuffers and Aggers in particular were really keen to learn more and very enthusiastic and complimentary about the work, Aggers asked Tony to make sure he told Bill's Story. It's been a bloody brilliant last few days for SMN, all that's needed now is some decent funding to get more projects on the go.
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The thing is we're consistently having opposition lower orders putting us to the sword, which suggests it isn't a coincidence. Cook's failure is a big concern, this can't go on.
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We have no idea how to finish teams off, it's pretty embarrassing to see teams setting 10wicket records against us regularly. This is where we really need to look at the bowling unit, there's clearly a problem there. I'd have stuck with Jordan because I think he's capable of filling this gap.
Cook needs to be left out. I haven't seen today's wicket but from the sound of it it was adelivery that a player with their eye in sees away pretty easily, if they persist with him much longer it's going to get to the point of no return where he'll need to be genuinely dropped instead of given a month at his county to get some runs. It's all well and good him saying he wants to sort it and that he doesn't feel out of touch but 25 innings since his last century and an average of about 20 in that time shows there's a well established problem now.
It's odd that I saw he'd gifted his wicket and I wasn't remotely concerned, I just thought it meant we had 2 proper batsmen at the crease.
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Cook needs to sort it and fast, because a year + of bad form is beyond a poor run and anyone else would have been dropped.
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Cook needs to sort it and fast, because a year + of bad form is beyond a poor run and anyone else would have been dropped.
He needs time away from the team to fix his batting problems. He's picked up more bad habits whilst trying to fix other things in his technique. He's overcompensating and his technique as a whole is shot.
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The thing is we're consistently having opposition lower orders putting us to the sword, which suggests it isn't a coincidence. Cook's failure is a big concern, this can't go on.
Exactly. For me it shows a lack of imagination from the captain and the bowlers. In that situation, Broad and Anderson lose their heads and their body language become like that of a spoilt child. Although it happened when Swann was in the team as well, the lack of decent spinner is a problem.
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One thing I notice we do is we get obsessed by bowling at the 'weakest batsman'. We stop trying to get the other batsman out, and basically just try and prevent him getting on strike for the next over. Then against the weakest batsman we look for the perfect ball rather than bowl as you would against anyone else. That allows both batsmen to get in and then we end up in situations like yesterday.
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Cooks average since his last centrury is something like 14, which is appalling.
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Cooks average since his last centrury is something like 14, which is appalling.
It's ironic that Cook stated that this England side was a new era and need freshening up - I agree, only he now needs to be relieved of the Captaincy! Shocking form from Cook for 12 months now. Would it be better if he came in at number 4? I'd trust Belly as a better opener.
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Lemon and ginger cake baked lovingly by my other half was a hit.
(http://i1069.photobucket.com/albums/u473/Yorkshire_Villa/10527847_10152316105068271_5203857622341606101_n_zps7c4d4046.jpg)
Melchester Rovers chairman adopts the Lerner approach to new signings. Cheap and 'experienced'
(http://i1069.photobucket.com/albums/u473/Yorkshire_Villa/10530686_10203448105458998_5034386645156605055_n_zps385d2849.jpg)
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Robson and Ballance doing very well and Ballance starting to up the tempo a bit now.
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Cooks average since his last centrury is something like 14, which is appalling.
It's ironic that Cook stated that this England side was a new era and need freshening up - I agree, only he now needs to be relieved of the Captaincy! Shocking form from Cook for 12 months now. Would it be better if he came in at number 4? I'd trust Belly as a better opener.
I wouldn't give up on Cook just yet, but I would certainly relieve of the pressure of the captaincy for the time being. There aren't too many other candidates in the team, but you would have to think that Bell or maybe even Prior would be able to step in for a short time. I'd give Cook the rest of the series, but then would leave him out of any ODIs (I don't think he should be in the ODI team anyway!!) and let him go away and work on his game. After this series, we don't have any tests until next summer, so it will be a good break for him.
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Vaughan seems to think we'll definitely change a seamer next week.
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Vaughan seems to think we'll definitely change a seamer next week.
Jordan should be back in, he really shouldn't have been dropped. I suggested Plunkett as the one to drop out after the SL series and I'm going to stick with that. I'd give woakes a go for Broad or Anderson later in the series as well (probably Broad but it depends if Jimmy looks like he's on empty like he did last summer).
I'd also give Ali a chance to open in place of Cook and bring in a genuine spinner (Kerrigan would be my choice still, yes he didn't do great last summer but the guy was called up and given 8 overs before being dumped, that's fucking disgraceful treatment of a player).
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Brilliant Robson given out LBW when he had an inside edge, not having DRS is ridiculous.
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Robson has done really well since that first Test, he's been robbed there.
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on TMS
Geoff" I say what I like and I like what I bloody well say" Boycott reckons Robson hit his pad and not a inside edge....
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I would say this has been a shocking session from us, but I'm not in the least bit surprised our batsmen have failed on a dead pitch against an innocuous bowling attack.
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Shocking decision. Must have missed that by at least a bats width.
In huge trouble now. There's just no character in this team.
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Actually getting quite funny now
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202/7.......an England collapse AGAIN !!
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There have been a couple of aboslute howlers from the umpire's which have not helped mind.
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Terrible umpiring, but this is pathetic on this pitch. This is chronic now, we are collapsing on a consistent basis and it's not good enough. I really don't know where England go from here, we have to learn how to fight.
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Sack Cook, sack Moores, go cap in hand to Pietersen, beg him to come back and be captain.
Get rid of Prior, get Buttler in.
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Terrible umpiring, but this is pathetic on this pitch. This is chronic now, we are collapsing on a consistent basis and it's not good enough. I really don't know where England go from here, we have to learn how to fight.
This is an Indian team which hasn't won one of their last 15 test matches away from home. We are making them look like 1980's West Indies at present.
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It's pathetic and we have a series of major problems. We are consistently collapsing and we are consistently failing to get out the lower order of the opposition. I don't care if the dressing room is more comfortable and a more happy place now, they're not playing well enough.
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A team is a reflection of it's captain, and right now we've got a captain who looks lost and a team to match.
Cook is the major problem right now, as harsh as that may sound, we can only make baby steps to fix things there's not the experience or talent waiting in the wings to make 5-6 changes here, Lets get Cook out of the firing line (Hales? Promote Ali/Root/Bell? Revisit Carberry?), get Jordan back in (For Plunkett I'd think) and then see where we fall. We'd still need to get the spinner issue resolved but another captain might be willing to trust Ali a little more so we might as well go with a batsman who can bowl spin for now, and if it doesn't work we've at least given Stokes and Jordan the chance to prove they could bat at 6 or 7.
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It's pathetic and we have a series of major problems. We are consistently collapsing and we are consistently failing to get out the lower order of the opposition. I don't care if the dressing room is more comfortable and a more happy place now, they're not playing well enough.
We have had these problems for a while now, as people have said. I just cannot fathom how the ECB have looked at it and decided Peter Moores is the answer.
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Hales is no way a Test batsman at the moment, and I rate him. He needs to do a lot more in the longer format before he can be considered.
These problems started 18 months to 2 years ago, we've been too negative, stopped scoring big runs and lost our ruthless edge.
I think Cook has to go as captain, because he's more important as a batsman and we need him back to his best.
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As for Cook. The poor form has gone on way, way too long. Its not going to change by merely repeating the same thing again and again in hope. He must go.
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The biggest worry now is that this is meant to be a new regime but we've got the same problems as before. The only difference is there's no Swann to save us now and they can't blame Pietersen anymore.
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Hales is no way a Test batsman at the moment, and I rate him. He needs to do a lot more in the longer format before he can be considered.
These problems started 18 months to 2 years ago, we've been too negative, stopped scoring big runs and lost our ruthless edge.
I think Cook has to go as captain, because he's more important as a batsman and we need him back to his best.
I disagree on Hales. All this talk of a new brand of cricket, and we've no one barring Bell who can play in an aggressive manner.
Hales at least would be positive. That's why I'd also get Buttler in. Prior looks shot and it was inexplicable how he got back into the team in the first place
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Hales can't even get in Notts four day team, he needs to do that before a Test player. James Vince is a better option if you want that.
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Sky just put up our batting collapses over the last year, worrying. To me it demonstrates a lack of character.
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Hales can't even get in Notts four day team, he needs to do that before a Test player. James Vince is a better option if you want that.
Maybe, but Hales is already around the squad for the ODI and T20 so it's less of a step up and what we're really wanting is someone to set an aggressive early tempo. That said I haven't seen enough of Vince to know if he could be the right man. I actually had high hopes for Chopra who looked like a top-drawer opener last season but has really fallen away this summer.
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I think Hales needs to become a regular in the ODI side first.
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Decent knock from Broad there.
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Broad always looks useful when he is playing his natural game. We seem to lack an aggressive shot maker in the middle order, somebody a bit different who can come in and bat for an hour and change the tide of the game.
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Oh well Plunkett didn't last long, let's hope for a 100 run last wicket partnership.
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You have to feel that on a pitch as flat as this, that 400 is the very least from a 1st innings, so we're currently some 90 odd short of par. If we had taken that final wicket cheaply though, then even with the collapse, we would be pushing even.
As long as we can bat out these overs today, you would think it would take India into the 5th day to rack up a 350 lead where they might think of declaring.
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Good fight from Root, Broad and Anderson but we need at least another 50.
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Broad always looks useful when he is playing his natural game. We seem to lack an aggressive shot maker in the middle order, somebody a bit different who can come in and bat for an hour and change the tide of the game.
Buttler or Jordan perhaps?
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For me long term Jordan is a much better option than Plunkett. If Jordan's technique is tweaked a bit he can bowl up to 90mph and he's a better bowler for me.
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The thing with cook is that it's easy to forget that before his monumental Ashes series he was in danger of not even making the tour. he was having a poor series against Pakistan until a last test century saved him and he went to Australia. We know the rest. But other than that series, and for roughly a series maybe two after he has not shown anything to suggest that the Australia series was anything other than a one-off.
The problem for England is that they've hung their hat on Moores and Cook. They've publicly dumped Pietersen and said there is no way back for him. To dump your best batsman is incredible considering the amount of inexperience in and around the team. I understand the viewpoint that they didn't want his potential negativity around younger players but we look very disjointed and with Cook failing constantly failing at the top it is putting undue pressure on those that follow.
I cannot see this team succeeding under Moores and Cook. Moores has been shown up twice as not being godo enough at this level. He's changed the way he coaches but fails to get his stamp on the team. There is no plan other than old fashioned thinking. The plan of asking Plunkett to constantly bowl bumpers was going from misguided to tedious. Similarly, giving a part-time spinner a role against a team that is brought up on turning pitches is nothing short of short sighted and criminal.
But Cook can't be dropped now. The lack of experience means he'll stay put. Given the ECBs insistence on Cook being the way forward they are also left with an underperforming team. Cook isn't a captain. He doesn't react and lets things drift. He hasn't got that instinct to be ahead of the game or the man management nous of a Brearley who survived in the team despite being nothing better than average with the bat.
We're a mess and it's a mess of our own making. We're stuck with moores but at least a poor summer could change that. But, this isn't a good India team so there's every chance that we could nick it. That could give the team some momentum and turn things around. We'll see.
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The thing with cook is that it's easy to forget that before his monumental Ashes series he was in danger of not even making the tour. he was having a poor series against Pakistan until a last test century saved him and he went to Australia. We know the rest. But other than that series, and for roughly a series maybe two after he has not shown anything to suggest that the Australia series was anything other than a one-off.
The problem for England is that they've hung their hat on Moores and Cook. They've publicly dumped Pietersen and said there is no way back for him. To dump your best batsman is incredible considering the amount of inexperience in and around the team. I understand the viewpoint that they didn't want his potential negativity around younger players but we look very disjointed and with Cook failing constantly failing at the top it is putting undue pressure on those that follow.
I cannot see this team succeeding under Moores and Cook. Moores has been shown up twice as not being godo enough at this level. He's changed the way he coaches but fails to get his stamp on the team. There is no plan other than old fashioned thinking. The plan of asking Plunkett to constantly bowl bumpers was going from misguided to tedious. Similarly, giving a part-time spinner a role against a team that is brought up on turning pitches is nothing short of short sighted and criminal.
But Cook can't be dropped now. The lack of experience means he'll stay put. Given the ECBs insistence on Cook being the way forward they are also left with an underperforming team. Cook isn't a captain. He doesn't react and lets things drift. He hasn't got that instinct to be ahead of the game or the man management nous of a Brearley who survived in the team despite being nothing better than average with the bat.
We're a mess and it's a mess of our own making. We're stuck with moores but at least a poor summer could change that. But, this isn't a good India team so there's every chance that we could nick it. That could give the team some momentum and turn things around. We'll see.
Spot on post Peter, but not sure about the bit in bold. I agree with your concerns regarding Moores and still think it was a strange appointment. I do however think it will take a poor series this summer against India, a poor World Cup in the winter and a home Ashes defeat against the Aussies next summer before Moores is in under any real pressure.
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I'll say another thing I find our tactics staggering with Plunkett, if you just bowl short all the time teams will get used to it. The short ball has to be a surprise.
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Cook's a good player but he shouldn't be captain it's as simple as that. We need his batting much more than him as a captain.
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Broad and Anderson showed how pathetic most of our batsmen were yesterday. Also it is critical that Cook doesn't over bowl those two.
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50 for Jimmy !!
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Great Innings from Root, and some real gutsy stuff from Anderson.
At the moment it's pretty telling that it's the experienced batsmen, Cook, Bell and Prior who are consistently letting the side down whilst the younger players flourish
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Great stuff from these two this morning
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I think you have to look at this in context. There have been 5 balls used in this match. 4 have done nothing. The one that was changed did loads for about 25 overs and took wickets
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I agree it's been a terrible wicket that has been batted on poorly in the main. That number 11s can get test highs on it speaks volumes. it also points accusatory fingers at all those batsman that failed.
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Its "Talk like a Pirate Day" with Swanny
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I'm glad the H&V lot aren't the selectors, otherwise the likes of Root, Ballance, Robson and Anderson would have been dropped. Think we'd be pretty stuffed without their runs this Test.
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I'm glad the H&V lot aren't the selectors, otherwise the likes of Root, Ballance, Robson and Anderson would have been dropped. Think we'd be pretty stuffed without their runs this Test.
Yep, It's the senior players who are letting the side down.
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Astonishing stuff really. Just watching the lunchtime feature on Sachin Tendulkar. Seeing where he grew up playing in Mumbai, it kind of makes a mockery of our complaints about poor facilities for kids!!
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As epic as this partnership has been, I can't find the logic in Root still trying to protect Anderson.
He's got 81 and hasn't been troubled.
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Such a pity he didn't get another 19 runs. Well batted Jimmy!
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Poor from Prior. Not doing anything to justify his selection at the moment
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Anyone see the exchange between Bumble and the bird in the crowd whose Husband was listening on the Sky feed? Amusing.
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Anyone see the exchange between Bumble and the bird in the crowd whose Husband was listening on the Sky feed? Amusing.
The bit about the Hairy Biker behind them was good. She turned around and pointed to him and the guy was oblivious to it!
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Well that was some last wicket partnership, excellent from Root and Jimmy. This has been an odd Test match, but it'll be a draw now but I bet India make Cook bat again.
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It's still a shockingly flat pitch.
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What's stupid is that Cook under bowled Ali again, yes he went for runs but he took two wickets. If India attack him it will bring chances. Cook just doesn't trust spinners.
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Cook needs to be relieved of the captaincy and dropped. This summer Anderson has scored more run than him with a superior average. Cook's routine is to get out early, put his feet up on the balcony and watch laughing away as the tail enders show him how to bat. He's just a passenger and poor decision maker. Rant over!
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Cook needs to be relieved of the captaincy and dropped.
Yup.
Harsh maybe given his overall record but keeping him on is doing no one any favours.
Tell you what, fuck the fact that we;re in the middle of a series and fuck the fact that he's never captained a side before, I'd give it to Root.
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Cook needs to be relieved of the captaincy and dropped.
Yup.
Harsh maybe given his overall record but keeping him on is doing no one any favours.
Tell you what, fuck the fact that we;re in the middle of a series and fuck the fact that he's never captained a side before, I'd give it to Root.
It's a decent shout, but he's just finding some good form and I wouldn't want to jeopardise that at this point. I'd give it to Bell or maybe even Prior on a temporary basis for the rest of the series. I think the time to look at Root or someone like that would be after the Ashes next summer.
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Why on earth would you give it to Root? He's captained Yorkshire once, have a look how that turned out.
Edit. Bleary eyed, read what Dave actually said. He has done it once though and that was an unmitigated disaster! Who will the H&V selection panel decided needs dropping? My guess is Root and Ali.
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Cook needs to be relieved of the captaincy and dropped.
Yup.
Harsh maybe given his overall record but keeping him on is doing no one any favours.
Tell you what, fuck the fact that we;re in the middle of a series and fuck the fact that he's never captained a side before, I'd give it to Root.
It's only a few months ago that Root was going through a similar run drought. So, conceivably that can happen again and you are scratching round looking for another replacement.
It's a tough one as there are no stand out candidates but if Cook is given a break it needs to be one of the more dependable players.
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Terrible drop by Cook. Didn't look like he stayed down on the all and then soft hands.
As Test Matches go he's had an absolute shocker.
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Can Cook get anymore useless? Easy slip catch spilled. Take him off and put the sub fielder on! A complete passenger!
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Cook needs to be relieved of the captaincy and dropped.
Yup.
Harsh maybe given his overall record but keeping him on is doing no one any favours.
Tell you what, fuck the fact that we;re in the middle of a series and fuck the fact that he's never captained a side before, I'd give it to Root.
It's only a few months ago that Root was going through a similar run drought. So, conceivably that can happen again and you are scratching round looking for another replacement.
It's a tough one as there are no stand out candidates but if Cook is given a break it needs to be one of the more dependable players.
The total lack of candidates, alongside a new coach that Cook must have had a big hand in bringing in will mean Cook will hang on to the Captaincy for the foreseeable future IMO.
This is a long term project and Whittaker, Moyes etc will not be easily spooked. They could point to Australia to show how quickly things can turnaround in Test match cricket. They'd gone 9 Test Matches without a win losing 7 before England rocked upto the Gabba last November.
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That's a bad drop from Cook, but it's been a really good morning from us so far. I'd be inclined to give Anderson one more over, we shouldn't over bowl him.
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Get a third man in Cook, those are pointless runs to leak.
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Don't over bowl them Cook.
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Not a bad start Plunkett!
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Why on earth would you give it to Root? He's captained Yorkshire once, have a look how that turned out.
Edit. Bleary eyed, read what Dave actually said. He has done it once though and that was an unmitigated disaster! Who will the H&V selection panel decided needs dropping? My guess is Root and Ali.
I'll start, Cook needs a few games off for his own good and Plunkett shouldn't be ahead of Jordan. I also think we need to have a look at a full-time spinner during this summer, who that should be in place of is open for discussion but if they carry on bowling Broad and Anderson like he has then at least one of them will be fucked by the 5th test.
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Yep we can't over bowl Broad and Anderson or we'll run them into the ground.
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Why on earth would you give it to Root? He's captained Yorkshire once, have a look how that turned out.
Edit. Bleary eyed, read what Dave actually said. He has done it once though and that was an unmitigated disaster! Who will the H&V selection panel decided needs dropping? My guess is Root and Ali.
I'll start, Cook needs a few games off for his own good and Plunkett shouldn't be ahead of Jordan. I also think we need to have a look at a full-time spinner during this summer, who that should be in place of is open for discussion but if they carry on bowling Broad and Anderson like he has then at least one of them will be fucked by the 5th test.
I get the clamour for Cook to be dropped/rested whatever but I don't understand why Root should be made captain? As I said, have a look what happened the one time he lead Yorkshire.
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Oh I agree on that, Bell and Broad are the only options for me.
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Just realised how drunk I was last night.
Root? As captain?
Hmmm....
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There aren't many candidates but I think Cook's value to us is as a batsman, so there's got to be another alternative.
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Good to see Moeen on.
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Stokes has bowled too short.
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Good from Ali.
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I really dislike this telegraphed Plunkett short bowling tactic. The short ball is fine as a surprise but this is garbage and cost us runs.
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Now the game is gone, the only value is Moeen getting some overs under his belt.
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Why haven't India declared to force Cook to bat ?
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Don't know but now he's bowling!
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Gary Ballance's leg spin looks useful
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It certainly does!
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OMG.........Cook has a wicket
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Maybe India have decided that Cook is so rubbish at the moment, they don't what to have him bat, fail again and thus give the England selectors any more reason to drop him.
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Cook has a wicket! Changed to bowling seam, this is very weird.
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Great over by Ballance - he seems to have the raw ability. Cooks bowling is awful but he gets a wicket. Sharma will never live that one down!
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Kerrigan added to the England squad.
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Kerrigan added to the England squad.
It's a step in the right direction but I don't think he'll play at Lords. He may play later in the series on more spin-friendly pitches like Old Trafford and the Oval.
When he is selected Cook needs to handle him better. His treatment in the Ashes test at the Oval last year was pretty poor regardless of how badly he bowled.
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He needs to learn how to treat spinners better in general.
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The treatment of Kerrigan wasn't poor, it wasn't down right disgraceful. 8 overs in the 1st innings and then ignored for the rest of the match before being dropped for the next 2 series, no poor spell deserves that degree of contempt, particularly when he was picked as an option for the future with Swann still very much part of the team at the time.
For me he's the best option for a long term solution as the spinner but we need to let him learn how to bowl at this level, once he's had 5-6 innings and/or the best part of 150-200 overs then you can start to see how he's going to get on.
The use of Ali in the last 3 matches shows just how clueless Cook is with a spinner, they're always someone who fills overs rather than a tactical change. His lack of understnading was masked by Swann being very good for a while.
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Must say I think Cook is starting to look a bit on the flabby side.
Anyway, that wicket Cook took may make all the difference for the next test. Instead of talk of poor batting and pressure the pictures are of him smiling and enjoying cricket. It is sometimes the extraordinary that breaks the cycle of poor form. He will be sitting their tonight having a laugh and a joke and generally feeling better about things because of his wicket. It may be the thing that he needs to go into the next test with feeling downright miserable. I think he'll bat well in the next test. If there was the normal 10 days or so between tests I doubt it would have had much of an effect, but only 3 days means there is little time to dwell on anything apart from his enjoyment of the moment.
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Cook's bowling average is 6.0, not far off his batting average this year.
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Must say I think Cook is starting to look a bit on the flabby side.
Anyway, that wicket Cook took may make all the difference for the next test. Instead of talk of poor batting and pressure the pictures are of him smiling and enjoying cricket. It is sometimes the extraordinary that breaks the cycle of poor form. He will be sitting their tonight having a laugh and a joke and generally feeling better about things because of his wicket. It may be the thing that he needs to go into the next test with feeling downright miserable. I think he'll bat well in the next test. If there was the normal 10 days or so between tests I doubt it would have had much of an effect, but only 3 days means there is little time to dwell on anything apart from his enjoyment of the moment.
Agree Peter and in that regard, we could probably do with batting first so he isn't carrying any baggage of an innings in the field to the wicket with him.
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He still doesn't "look" like an England captain to me. I don't think he ever will.
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Jimmy's been charged with "abusing and pushing" Jadeja so we've retaliated tit-for-tat
No Love Lost (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/current/story/760629.html)
India always seem to look for something to complain about, to get under the skins of the other side. Whatever went on surely it could have been resolved internally particularly as the umpires saw nothing? This smacks of India trying to get a key England player banned.
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Seems a bit over the top to me.
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Pitch is quite green, but I'll suspect that will be misleading
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That is as green as I have ever seen a pitch. I think it's right that we're unchanged, we shouldn't be rushing Kerrigan back. He needs to go back to Lancs now. Bowling first hopefully we'll get some help.
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Aggers taking the piss out of Strauss as he walks by
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That is as green as I have ever seen a pitch. I think it's right that we're unchanged, we shouldn't be rushing Kerrigan back. He needs to go back to Lancs now. Bowling first hopefully we'll get some help.
I'd have swapped Jordan in for Plunkett but I agree it's not the pitch to bring Kerrigan in on.
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Yeah possibly Jordan would have been an option.
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Movement and carry, which is good to see.
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I do think England should persevere with Ali, he's a really classy batsmen and different to our other players. I also reckon the more he bowls the better he'll get.
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Dhawan gone, good start.
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Prior drops Vijay, I hope we don't pay for that. We have got to stop dropping catches.
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Jordan would have been perfect on this pitch.
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Right that's two edges missed, first through gap between third slip and gully and then Cook moves gully to fourth slip and the catch goes through gully. Given what the ball is doing, why don't you put the extra catcher in Cook?
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Right that's two edges missed, first through gap between third slip and gully and then Cook moves gully to fourth slip and the catch goes through gully. Given what the ball is doing, why don't you put the extra catcher in Cook?
Talking of fielding placements, did you see Alfonso Thomas put in a fly-slip last night and for the very next ball to go straight to him.
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Nope but it's nice to see proactive captaincy. We're bowling far too short and we're going to miss our chance if we don't sort it.
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I'm pretty worried that we're not just bowling full and on off stump, the ball is moving all over the place, let's make the most of it and bring the slips into more. I'm pretty sure our bowlers have no idea how to play any other way.
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Blowers just used the world "couth". I've heard "uncouth" used a lot but I've never heard anyone use "couth" before
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Bowling too short and too wide and Cook is putting in catchers after chances have gone, not good at the moment.
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We needed that wicket.
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Now Prior drops Kohli off Ali. This isn't good enough, that's a double blow. Could you imagine what it would do for Ali's confidence to get Kohli out on the first morning of a Test? and secondly dropping Kohli could be a terrible mistake. Pretty poor morning on the whole, bowled the wrong lengths and lines, poor reactive captaincy and dropping chances.
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Prior needs time away from the Test arena I think!
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Is that three chances that Prior dropped in that session?
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Two I think, that's poor. However our bowlers have once again bowled too short, this is happening too often to be a coincidence and they need to sort it out.
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Jimmy strikes and Prior catches, Kohli gone. We needed that, now start pitching the ball up England.
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I see Piers Moron and co's man to save English cricket really hit form yesterday with his biggest innings of the summer. 39.
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I do hope the tactic of bowling bouncers around the wicket is abandonned forever. It's a pointless and telegraphed plan.
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I really think Jordan would have been a much better option on this surface. That being said it doesn't matter who the bowlers are if they bowl to bad plans. We've missed a few chances, I reckon this is probably a 250-300 par score pitch.
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Big wicket from Stokes, Pujara gone. Stokes had bowled pretty well before the drinks break and gets reward after.
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Dhoni gone 123-5.
Really need to finish them off now.
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Yep it's really important having got into this position without bowling particularly well that we finish this quick. We've let teams off the hook far too many times over the last 18 months.
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Jadeja'a batting. Time to give Jimmy a few overs ahead of the tea interval.
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Well done Cook for perservering with Mooen, Jadeja gone.
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England in "getting their act together" shock.
Need to finish them off this time
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Ali's got Jadeja LBW 128-6
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That's what happens when you back the spinner and give him confidence Cook, well done.
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need to be batting as soon as possible, so let's finish them off this time.
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need to be batting as soon as possible, so let's finish them off this time.
Yep, don't want this dragging on for an hour after tea and Cook having to bat for just a few overs.
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need to be batting as soon as possible, so let's finish them off this time.
We either want to bat for an hour or not bat today, the little 5-6 over spells at the end of the day are horrible, particularly on a pitch that's all over the place. An evening under blue skies and sun to dry it out more would be perfect so long as we haven't lost any wickets this afternoon.
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They've got a partnership developing 185-7. partnership 40 off 15.5 overs. We need to break this partnership soon.
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I see this pathetic bowling at tailenders continues unabated.
To be honest, I think Anderson aside, the seamers have bowled poorly all day
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New ball is due in 3 overs let's hope we can polish them off with that.
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We've butchered this again. Frankly I am genuinely stunned that again they have gone back to Plunkett around the wicket bowling short. It doesn't fucking work, it's telegraphed and it's given away the advantage again. We've bowled too short and it's idiotic.
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Dross since tea, really really poor.
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When we eventually get India out, I bet the Indian seamers show us how to bowl again.
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I think what's abundantly clear from the Plunkett around the wicket tactic is that England are trying to make him our Mitchell Johnson. But unfortunately he's not that good or that quick and Johnson at his best doesn't just bowl short deliveries. I could understand them trying it at the start of the summer, but it is inexcusable to continue with it when it has consistently failed.
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Finally out, now finish them off quick.
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Well played Rahane and good catch Anderson. But we've once again cocked up a great opportunity. There are really worrying signs about this new regime already. It's mainly down to the inability to learn from mistakes. We have consistently bowled too short, used Plunkett with a very telegraphed and ineffective plan, dropped catches, shown terrible body language and collapsed as a batting unit. It's crucial we and Cook bat well tomorrow, this total is good from India.
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Ah once again spread the field for the 'senior batsman' even though he's a number 10 who averages less than 5. Terrible tactics. Bowl to get both batsmen out, especially if they're both tailenders.
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Whether we bat well or not, that was a really poor bowling and tactical day. Cook won't make it as a captain I'm convinced after today.
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This thread is like a cross between the Luke Haines thread and a match thread where everything is shit because Villa are only drawing with Everton or Liverpool.
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The problem is we bowled far too many deliveries that they could leave. When you win the toss on a green wicket and the early signs are that the ball is moving on it you don't have to do anything fancy to take wickets, you put 5 catchers in the slips and gully and bowl at the top of off stump. Let the pitch cause the natural deviation, even if you go for a few driven straight you will get regular wickets, either edges to slips or inside edge/lbw if they start chasing it across. We had a spell of doing the right thing in the 2nd session and we got rewards for it. I only watch about an hour of the match, just after lunch, but it was pretty clear that the shorter deliveries were significantly easier to pick than the ones we pitched up.
The scorecard backs up my thinking as well, India realised that they needed to score quick and really put a shift in after tea to get some runs on. I firmly believe a decent captain with a hint of aggression to him would've seen us skittle them for 150-200 before tea. We clearly had a plan for a standard Lords wicket and we've bowled to that plan despite the pitch being very different to a standard Lords one. As i said to a colleague earlier, I found myself wishing that it was Cook not Jimmy who was facing a ban, he's never going to left out otherwise and he really needs to be, for his own good.
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The problem is we bowled far too many deliveries that they could leave. When you win the toss on a green wicket and the early signs are that the ball is moving on it you don't have to do anything fancy to take wickets, you put 5 catchers in the slips and gully and bowl at the top of off stump. Let the pitch cause the natural deviation, even if you go for a few driven straight you will get regular wickets, either edges to slips or inside edge/lbw if they start chasing it across. We had a spell of doing the right thing in the 2nd session and we got rewards for it. I only watch about an hour of the match, just after lunch, but it was pretty clear that the shorter deliveries were significantly easier to pick than the ones we pitched up.
The scorecard backs up my thinking as well, India realised that they needed to score quick and really put a shift in after tea to get some runs on. I firmly believe a decent captain with a hint of aggression to him would've seen us skittle them for 150-200 before tea. We clearly had a plan for a standard Lords wicket and we've bowled to that plan despite the pitch being very different to a standard Lords one. As i said to a colleague earlier, I found myself wishing that it was Cook not Jimmy who was facing a ban, he's never going to left out otherwise and he really needs to be, for his own good.
Michael Vaughan made a decent point on the Channel 5 highlights. He said that when England get into the opposition's tail and Cook is struggling with his own game, his mind switches to his batting and he loses focus on what is going on in the field.
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Really should have bowled them out for under 200 with the conditions yesterday. Bowled poorly in the first session, ok in the second and horrendously in the third.
Pundit's have been saying that Plunkett is the quickest bowler in England. Well if that's true then we are in trouble. Rarely seen him bowl a ball above 86/87 mph so far this summer.
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When the batsmen continually fail and go many innings without reaching 400 then the batting coach gets stick. Gooch paid the price for this after the winter Ashes series. Yet no-one seems to blame David Saker the bowling coach when his attack cannot finish teams off.
Either the players are too stubborn or stupid to follow team plans or the bowling coach is at fault. I read somewhere earlier this week - it could have been on here - that Simon Jones talks sensibly about fast bowling and even Boycott sat and listened whch isn't like him at all. Time for a change.
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It's not so much the pace of Plunkett that bothers me, it's that the way we use him is completely ineffective. If you bowl short balls all the time the batsmen get used to it and it's easy to deal with. Also he's massively inconsistent and I think there are better options.
It's a big day today, we need to bowl at both batsmen to get them out. Trying to keep Shami off strike was one of the most ridiculous tactics I've ever seen. It's annoying when they have a tailender one end and a proper batsman the other and they only try to get the tailender out. But to use that tactic when you have the number 10 and 11 in is absolutely crazy. Also all the balls that got the proper batsmen out yesterday were a good length to full, so why do they think bowling short is the way to go at the tail? Genuinely clueless.
Once the last wicket goes we have to bat and bat well, because Cook's reign should really depend on it.
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I see Cook and Warne have settled their differences with an hour long phone call.
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Stephen Fry ringing the bell at Lord's
Hopefully he'll be a guest on TMS later
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Shami gone, right at least they got it right this morning. Now it's time for Cook to step up.
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Well, at least he made it to double figures
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The knives will be out once again.....Cook out for 10
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He simply can't keep failing like this, I can't remember an England player be on this bad a run of form for this long who's not been dropped.
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I think that for the sake of Cook's long term value as an England batsman let alone captain, he needs time away from the side.
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Oh dear as expected Kumar is showing us how to bowl.
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It's not knives out, I like Cook, he's clearly a talented batsman when he has form, you don't get the amount of career runs he has without that, but right now his head is a mess, for a year he's been awful. His last 24 innings have an average of 23 - that's not good enough to be an international opener, and he's getting worse, in australia he at least got a few 50s, this summer his best was a very streaky 28.
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Cook has to go. His form is affecting the entire side with his woeful batting and his poor tactics in the field.
Really poor from Robson too. We could be on for a sub 200 score if we keep playing poor shots like that.
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He simply can't keep failing like this, I can't remember an England player be on this bad a run of form for this long who's not been dropped.
I seem to recall Vaughan having a couple of really poor runs, one of which ended with 150+ at Old Trafford against Australia in 05.
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All those saying Cook has to go, who is there to replace him?
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The thing is it's whether you value Cook as a batsman or a captain, because at the moment he's failing at both. Personally I'd much rather have an in form Cook as a batsman and place the captaincy elsewhere. Lots of people say there isn't an alternative candidate, but frankly could anyone else do much worse? We could try either Broad or Bell in the interim. As I say just because an obvious candidate doesn't leap out doesn't mean we should continue on a path that clearly isn't helping Cook's most important role or that of the team.
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51-2 at lunch, the plus side is that India's score isn't huge so a couple of partnerships and we could be up around it. We need to get as close as possible, and then bowl a lot better in the second innings.
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All those saying Cook has to go, who is there to replace him?
Moeen Ali has played opener for Worcs hasn't he, he'd be worth a look maybe, then you need to decide who to bring in further down, Morgan? Bopara?
Alternatively you could go for someone like Hales and try to smash the shine off the new ball and get runs on the board early, Australia have gone for that fairly often in the last 20 years and it's generally worked ok for them.
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The thing is it's whether you value Cook as a batsman or a captain, because at the moment he's failing at both. Personally I'd much rather have an in form Cook as a batsman and place the captaincy elsewhere. Lots of people say there isn't an alternative candidate, but frankly could anyone else do much worse? We could try either Broad or Bell in the interim. As I say just because an obvious candidate doesn't leap out doesn't mean we should continue on a path that clearly isn't helping Cook's most important role or that of the team.
After this test I'd drop Cook for the rest of this series. He strikes me as someone who is mentally shot.
Broad and Bell are the likely candidates to replace him, I'd go with Bell for a couple of reasons. First a fast bowler as a captain is never a good idea, they tend to overbowl themselves. The second is that Broad acts like a petulant child when a decision does go his way. Bell has a calm authority about him and as senior pro the younger batsmen will look up to him.
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All those saying Cook has to go, who is there to replace him?
Moeen Ali has played opener for Worcs hasn't he, he'd be worth a look maybe, then you need to decide who to bring in further down, Morgan? Bopara?
Alternatively you could go for someone like Hales and try to smash the shine off the new ball and get runs on the board early, Australia have gone for that fairly often in the last 20 years and it's generally worked ok for them.
See I took it Chris meant as captain, but could be read either way I guess. Personally I'd like Cook back to his best just as a batsman. However if dropping him completely then I'd have Ali or Vince as opener. If you use Ali, you could have Morgan in the middle order and have him as captain as well.
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I was talking about captain, there don't appear to be too many outstanding candidates to replace him.
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My guess would be Broad.
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Ah ok, the simple answer to that is that you have to deserve your spot in the team as a player first, if cook doesn't deserve a spot as a batsman then we need to work out who to replace him with as captain, given how defensive he's been at times I can't see anyone being significantly worse.
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Yeah I think that's it, Cook's captaincy over the last year or so has been on par with his batting. The difference is he's proved in the past he's a fine batsman, whereas not so much as a captain. I know we won those early series, but a lot of that was down to his batting and now that's deserted him it's exposed his lack of ideas. Someone else deserves a go.
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Funny dismissal of Bell.
At least Mr Jameson will be cheered by the sight of Root and Balance batting together.
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Was it a poor shot from Bell or did he get it wrong? The BBC text commentary seems to suggest the bounce did him.
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He misjudged it. Bell must be thankful Cook's form is so bad in some ways, he's slipped under the radar. Since last summer he's been really poor. Root got a bad decision.
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Ballance doing very well.
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He misjudged it. Bell must be thankful Cook's form is so bad in some ways, he's slipped under the radar. Since last summer he's been really poor. Root got a bad decision.
Indeed, it's form like this which makes me wish we didn't have these silly mini-series at the start of the summer. I'd rather we let the players have a solid 2-3months with their counties to get their form in place in a less pressured environment. After the winter we had our batsmen in particular needed a chance to get some big runs and lots of time in the middle, but the scheduling forced them into an ODI series in the carribbean, then a world cup, then a few weeks with their counties before a series agianst SL and then straight onto this series.
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One good thing yesterday I forgot to mention was to see Ali get a long spell and bowl over the wicket. He had much more control and threat.
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All those saying Cook has to go, who is there to replace him?
Moeen Ali has played opener for Worcs hasn't he, he'd be worth a look maybe, then you need to decide who to bring in further down, Morgan? Bopara?
Alternatively you could go for someone like Hales and try to smash the shine off the new ball and get runs on the board early, Australia have gone for that fairly often in the last 20 years and it's generally worked ok for them.
See I took it Chris meant as captain, but could be read either way I guess. Personally I'd like Cook back to his best just as a batsman. However if dropping him completely then I'd have Ali or Vince as opener. If you use Ali, you could have Morgan in the middle order and have him as captain as well.
After talking it over at work the other option could be to just shuffle what we have.
Moeen
Robson
Ballance
Cook
Bell
Root
.
.
The advantage being that Bell has a significantly better record at 5 than 4. It's harsh for Root to go to 6 but it seems to be the best way to use what we've got at the minute. If not Root at 4, Cook out and Morgan at 6 as suggested.
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I've been really impressed with Moeen since his debut, he's a classy bat and I reckon his bowling will develop if the captain uses him properly.. To be honest if anyone in the middle order has to go at the minute it should be Bell.
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Excellent 100 from Ballance, this knock answers a lot of questions. This was the sort of pitch that people questioned his technique, and his shown real quality.
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Yorkshire to the rescue again.
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Wonderful ton from Balance.
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Ali out bloody hell, but he played an important part in a partnership. Up to Prior and Stokes to step up now.
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Night watchman with 7 overs to go? really?
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Night watchman with 7 overs to go? really?
You read my mind!!
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If Prior's form is that much of a worry he shouldn't be in the team.
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The one thing Ali needs to iron out from his game is occasional lapses in concentration. Although I think he's a really good player and has a big future in the team. That partnership was really important.
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Ali out bloody hell, but he played an important part in a partnership. Up to Prior and Stokes to step up now.
When was Ballance out?
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If Prior's form is that much of a worry he shouldn't be in the team.
It's either form, injury or a combination of the two. This could be his last series.
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Pity Balance got out. Well batted though
And Prior replaces him.
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Ali out bloody hell, but he played an important part in a partnership. Up to Prior and Stokes to step up now.
When was Ballance out?
Premonition, he's out now.
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Super innings from Ballance, well played but like Ali bad time to get out. We're struggling here, Prior and Stokes need to play well now.
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Poor batting performance aside from Ballance.
Ali did okayish, but then got out to a joke bowler.
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This England side can't seem to win the big moments of the game.
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The loss of Ali and Ballance has tipped the match back in India's favour. We'll do well to reach their total.
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Good from Plunkett there keeping Prior down non-strikers end.
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The one thing Ali needs to iron out from his game is occasional lapses in concentration.
Aha the essential difference between the great and the good.
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The shot by Moeen looked tired to me, it just looked like he was tkaing it a bit easier before the new ball.
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I can hear the booing from miles away.
Although it's within the rules a dismissal like that is not within the spirit of the game.
Sri Lanka always live right on the edge of the rules, look back at the discussion on here about Malinga and then look at Senanayake's action. I'd be ok with that if they weren't the team that kicked up a stink about Finn kicking the wicket, I've not got a lot of time for them.
Because I haven't seen mention of it on here before I'm going to roll this thread back a way to point out that Senanayake has been banned from international cricket for a illegal action. I thought it looked like chucking at the time, it makes everything that happened in those matches all the more annoying.
We're still poor but I glad a guy who looked so dodgy has been proven to be so, couldn't have happened to a more deserving person either.
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To be fair most 'issues' around the game tend to come from the sub-continent.
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The one thing Ali needs to iron out from his game is occasional lapses in concentration.
Aha the essential difference between the great and the good.
I'd say it's far too early to judge. For instance his 100 at Headingley was one of the greatest I've seen, but then he's done some average stuff too.
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I don't think any batsman can be considered a 'great' until they've spent a few years playing Test cricket at a consistently high level.
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I don't think any batsman can be considered a 'great' until they've spent a few years playing Test cricket at a consistently high level.
Agreed.
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The loss of Ali and Ballance has tipped the match back in India's favour. We'll do well to reach their total.
Losing Ali and Ballance late on was a blow, but Prior, Stokes and Broad are more than capable of getting the runs needed to take us up to and past India's total. The match is really in the balance at this point.
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Interesting article on Cook:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/current/story/761795.html
He will be batting for his future in the second innings. No pressure then.
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Good start to the morning.
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Plunkett doing some real damage.
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That's really stupid Prior, we were getting into a good position and there was no need for that at all. Need Stokes to turn up here, because we need a lead.
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Stokes gone, that's two ducks in a row. We're not going to get much if anything of a lead here.
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Broad gone, that's stupid as well. Prior and Broad have been idiotic this morning and our chances of a lead are pretty much gone. Got to say from two senior players that is absolutely terrible and it sums up the lack of leadership in our side.
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I really see no justification for playing Prior at the moment. His keeping has rapidly gone downhill and his batting has been extremely poor.
Broad was just idiotic. He's got talent with the bat, so why does he see his role as a number 11 who has to swing at every ball?
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Stokes needs to sort his batting out, because apparently that's 5 ducks out of his last 9 in internationals and a top score of 5.
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Broad gone, that's stupid as well. Prior and Broad have been idiotic this morning and our chances of a lead are pretty much gone. Got to say from two senior players that is absolutely terrible and it sums up the lack of leadership in our side.
Agree. Just when it looked like we were going to be able to get a decent lead, we've gone and blown it. Plenty of time left in the game, so absolutely no need for the way we have played in the last hour.
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It is symbolic of how little responsibility the senior players are taking. If Prior isn't taking responsibility then is there any justification for him being in the side? he's keeping badly and batting badly. Also it would be nice if the bowlers could look at how Kumar bowls and try and pitch it up.
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Jimmy and Plunkett have at least got us to a lead.
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I didn't realise that Stokes' form with the bat was that bad, but it does beg the question does he justify a place in front of Jordan at the moment? Jordan has bowled really well, is an excellent slip fielder and he's a useful bat.
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Excellent 50 Plunkett, shown responsibility unlike some of his more senior colleagues.
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I didn't realise that Stokes' form with the bat was that bad, but it does beg the question does he justify a place in front of Jordan at the moment? Jordan has bowled really well, is an excellent slip fielder and he's a useful bat.
I think it shows how utterly abysmal we were in Australia that Stokes was so lauded for his performance.
To me, his bowling doesn't currently look good enough to be the 4th bowler and his batting looks ordinary. I think he'll develop into a fine all rounder, but at the moment Jordan and even Woakes look a better bet
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I didn't realise that Stokes' form with the bat was that bad, but it does beg the question does he justify a place in front of Jordan at the moment? Jordan has bowled really well, is an excellent slip fielder and he's a useful bat.
I think it shows how utterly abysmal we were in Australia that Stokes was so lauded for his performance.
To me, his bowling doesn't currently look good enough to be the 4th bowler and his batting looks ordinary. I think he'll develop into a fine all rounder, but at the moment Jordan and even Woakes look a better bet
In fairness he scored an excellent century and took 15 wickets in Australia. I think he's going to be an excellent player, but I'm not sure he should be in front of Jordan at the moment.
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Lead of 24, now we need to bowl properly. Pitch it up.
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I didn't realise that Stokes' form with the bat was that bad, but it does beg the question does he justify a place in front of Jordan at the moment? Jordan has bowled really well, is an excellent slip fielder and he's a useful bat.
I think it shows how utterly abysmal we were in Australia that Stokes was so lauded for his performance.
To me, his bowling doesn't currently look good enough to be the 4th bowler and his batting looks ordinary. I think he'll develop into a fine all rounder, but at the moment Jordan and even Woakes look a better bet
In fairness he scored an excellent century and took 15 wickets in Australia. I think he's going to be an excellent player, but I'm not sure he should be in front of Jordan at the moment.
I thought he did well in Australia, but compared to the rest of the team it looked like the second coming of Garfield Sobers. I think he's been built up a bit too much since then.
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Bowl full England, look at how Kumar bowled and he justifiably got 6 wickets.
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Really pleased for Plunkett, he's worked hard to turn his career round since leaving Durham.
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Hopefully it'll give him the confidence to bowl well now, he needs to pitch it up like all of the bowlers.
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Worryingly Broad is already too short.
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I don't think it should be Jordan or Stokes. They are two different players who shouldn't be competing for the same spot. Jordan is a bowler who can bat whereas Stokes is a Craig White-like bat who is adept with the ball. More in the all-rounder vein. Our problem is that we're kind of bits and pieces everywhere. The loss of so many experienced players at the top made the jettisoning of Pietersen even more incredible. Especially seeing as no-one looked particularly good in Australia, with Pieteresen being the best still - and cook even then being woefully out of form.
I struggle to see why they have taken the course they have and they are currently reaping what they sow by backing the wrong horse and bringing back a coach who is not good enough. Plan A for Plunkett was poor but okay, we'll let them off Sri lanka and the first test. But to see a seaming wicket being misused by Plunkett going around the wicket bouncing at the tail enders is criminal. Surely at some point the coach should be sending out a message to go to Plan B. That he didn't shows that either he thought it was working, it was his idea, or that Cook decides what's going on, or the bowlers do. Either way, it's simply not working.
Cook as captain has to go. Moores has to go. Downton has to go.
Clear the decks and we still have enough to get going on with. I'd also remove Prior now. Experienced as he is his batting and his glove work are not good enough at the moment.
Cook
Bell
Trott
Pietersen
Ballance
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Broad
Anderson
Kerrigan
There is still the basis of a team in and around the counties. There is a lot depending on Trott but if he wasn't coming back I'd bring Ali back in and move everyone up one from Root up. Bell as captain. he's do
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Sorry I really disagree with a lot of that team, Trott is done as an international cricketer and whilst I disagreed with KP's dropping his form has justified any sort of come back. Also Ali has been excellent this summer and he's dropped? and Stokes isn't a third seamer at the moment.
Cook(if he can find some form)
Robson
Ballance(he's doing excellently at number 3)
Bell(just about but if he doesn't improve his place is under threat)
Root(captain, as we need to look to the future now and it can be done from the middle order)
Ali(offers us balance if we bowl him right)
Buttler
Jordan
Plunkett(if he can sort his bowling length out)
Broad
Anderson
If Stokes finds form with the bat, then he can push hard for Jordan's position or if Bell doesn't find form then Ali can move up and Stokes comes in for Bell, but at the moment he's not offering enough. The young spinners shouldn't be rushed back in either and Kerrigan's form isn't up there at the moment.
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The hope has to be that Finn finds his best form at some stage, because he's got so much more ability than any of Jordan, Woakes, Plunkett, Stokes etc
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I wouldn't persist with Plunkett because I don't think he's fit or strong enough. day 1 of the test and he's down to 82 mph. He's been picked to bowl 90 mph.
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Finn is the long term option but he needs to keep going in county cricket for the moment and get his form, pace and confidence fully back.
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Cook
Bell
Trott
Pietersen
Ballance
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Broad
Anderson
Kerrigan
There is still the basis of a team in and around the counties. There is a lot depending on Trott but if he wasn't coming back I'd bring Ali back in and move everyone up one from Root up. Bell as captain. he's do
It's not that long ago Ali scored a superb century, Pietersen has a top score of 39 this season and is obviously toxic where England are concerned, Trott won't be back in the Test set up in the immediate future I shouldn't imagine and I've only ever seen Kerrigan bowl 8 overs, but going by his form for Lancashire I'm not sure what he'd bring to the Test arena.
England are a team in transition, I'd hate us to go back to the bad old days of throwing people in for a Test or two and getting rid, it's not that long ago people were calling for Ballance and Root to be dropped.
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I agree that team is far too grounded in the past. I think Ali is Bell's eventual replacement as well, he's a really classy player.
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It's not doing a lot and Broad is bowling poor again.
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Anderson too short now. The ball isn't doing much and this looks like it could be a long afternoon.
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Bell brings Broad off for Stokes, proactive.
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What a catch from Root off Stokes, we needed something brilliant. Dhawan gone and he looked dangerous.
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Great catch from Root.
Always great for bowlers when their poor balls get wickets!
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It happens sometimes, Stokes has bowled well largely and not given much to hit and then the batsman sees the bad ball and gets a bit loose.
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Cook
Bell
Trott
Pietersen
Ballance
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Broad
Anderson
Kerrigan
There is still the basis of a team in and around the counties. There is a lot depending on Trott but if he wasn't coming back I'd bring Ali back in and move everyone up one from Root up. Bell as captain. he's do
It's not that long ago Ali scored a superb century, Pietersen has a top score of 39 this season and is obviously toxic where England are concerned, Trott won't be back in the Test set up in the immediate future I shouldn't imagine and I've only ever seen Kerrigan bowl 8 overs, but going by his form for Lancashire I'm not sure what he'd bring to the Test arena.
England are a team in transition, I'd hate us to go back to the bad old days of throwing people in for a Test or two and getting rid, it's not that long ago people were calling for Ballance and Root to be dropped.
I didn't say that this is a team for the next test but players that we have who probably are better than what is in the test team right now. Obviously Kerrigan isn't but we need to start thinking about our spinning options. You're right that Ali hasn't done much wrong with the bat but take that hundred out and he is a slight better than Ramprakash in that he gets in and then when he should start looking for a score he gets himself out. Early days yet I agree and as our spinning option - not that he's international class by any stretch of the word - dropping him from the team is hardly an option.
The balance of the team is all wrong. Bell is not a number four but 2 or 3. Root is not a number 4 but 3 or 5. He's too scratchy at the moment for 3 so 5 is his best bet. That leaves Balance who is also not a number 4 which is where your best player should be. That is bell but he doesn't produce at 4. In fact, and without the stats I can't back this up, he also seems to produce his best work at number 5.
trot is a natural number 3 and yes I also agree he's a long long way from playing international cricket. But it was anxiety through burnout thT WAS THE PROBLEM. sO, IF THAT IS ALSO THE CASE, THAT HE'S STARTING TO PLAY AGAIN SHOULD MEAN THAT HE FEELS READY TO TAKE THE STEP UP AGAIN. nOT THAT IT WILL HAPPEN NOW, OR PROBABLY on T(oh fking caps lock...)he next tour.
Robson's technique is questionable and therein lies the nub. The only natural opener is Cook who is hopelessly out of form. Either the captaincy needs to go or he does. It will be difficult for him to have the captaincy taken from him and to stay in the team. He needs to get away (of course there are two second innings to get through yet) and make runs for Essex. Carberry and Compton have both been discarded. Bell and Root didn't take their chances. So where next?
Number 3 - no-one other than trot seems to have settled into the roll although Ballance is now starting to look like it's his spot. So, you can't drop Cook or Balance from 3. That leaves 2, 4, 5, 6. Root and Bell take two of those. I'd give then 5 and 6. Root can be our counter-attacking Gus Logie. We can't keep chopping and changing openers so we need to talking seriously to trot - which I'm sure we are. Get him in to open. He's a number 3 but he and Ballance are already 1 ball from opening anyway. If he is ready get him back.
Number 4. Sorry but I really don't care how an unmotivated Pietersen is doing at Surrey. he has been used and controlled dreadfully. Our best player shouldn't be pushed to the margins because people don't like him. He's our best player. We didn't get thrashed in Australia because of Pietersen. He should be playing. They won't pick him but he should be playing.
So, number 7. All-rounder. Stokes, Woakes, Ali, Bresnan. Ali is the better batsman but Stokes is younger and did excellently in Australia. He's struggled with the bat since but he is still only 23, I think. I don't think Ali is a good enough bowler for number 7, or for the team, so that is why for the sake of balance he gets cut. There is an argument to be had that should he learn to not keep giving his wicket away he could slot in at number 4.
Also number 7 is ideally where your wicket keeper comes in. if we were scoring better from 1-6 then we could go for the better wicket batting a little bit loser - Chris Read or Foster. But we can't so it's Buttler or Prior. Given the uncertainty over cook's captaincy and place Prior cannot be cut. I think he'll be sacrificed if England lose this test though, rather than Cook. Buttler will come in and Bell made vice-captain.
8/9-11
Broad and Anderson are gimmees. Leaving two slots left. either Plunkett is an idiot or Moores is. If the latter then Plunkett deserves a chance with someone giving him a better plan to work to given his 90 mph bowling. Finn needs to prove a lot before being considered but he shouldn't be dismissed. Jordan also. Leaving us a place for a spinner. Which we don't have at the moment. Go back to a regular turner like Gareth Batty or invest in the future? Scott Borthwick will probably be a good option but he needs to be playing on turning wickets at county level so we can see how good he is.
So to end this missive we need to get the balance right and it is all over the place at the minute. Too any bits and pieces players that riddled the one day side not too long ago. get that right and we'll perform better. Of course, poor form doesn't help.
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Dropping Ali would be madness, genuinely. Trott is done as an international, as is Pietersen. I was a big Pietersen fan but his form had gone as well, he may have been top scorer in Australia but that was on a poor tour. We need to move on.
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Ali should be bowling soon.
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About time dull lifeless pitches lead to punishments
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/19/england-india-trent-bridge-pitch-poor-icc-david-boon-nottinghamshire-fine
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Not looking promising at the moment.
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Time was you believed Anderson or Broad could rip through a side, but they just don't look like they have that now.
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We should have Moeen bowling from one end now.
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Why have we not got a 3rd man in place by now..............
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We should be bowling Ali from one end and rotating the seamers down the other.
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Ali simply isn't good enough. Especially to batsman who are in.
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I don't buy that at all, bowling over the wicket he caused problems in the first innings.
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Important wicket for Plunkett, we need to get on a roll now.
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Plunkett bowls Kohli first ball! Now we need to get on a run.
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Keep the ball up there Plunkett.
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The one thing Ali needs to iron out from his game is occasional lapses in concentration.
Aha the essential difference between the great and the good.
I'd say it's far too early to judge. For instance his 100 at Headingley was one of the greatest I've seen, but then he's done some average stuff too.
That's it really. Potential greats more often than not never attain that status due to inconsistency of concentration and tendency to chase futility. Moeen is still young, has the talent, but now needs to work on his weaknesses.
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Put a short leg in Cook.
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Another one goes, but bad decision.
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lucky break there.......no where near out
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lucky break there.......no where near out
Shame. If only there was a system they could use to review such a decision.
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I don't have a lot of sympathy as they should have agreed to use the DRS system but the umpire HAS to get those sort of decisions right
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one or two more quick wickets and we may have a chance here
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I have no idea what the rules really is, but is there something about armguards that touch the glove are effectively part of the glove? That decision was so far out could it be something like that?
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It was just a bad decision.
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I'd say it's advantage India, but not over yet.
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Time was you believed Anderson or Broad could rip through a side, but they just don't look like they have that now.
With Plunkett and Stokes not established at international level and Ali only really a part-time option, our attack doesn't look too clever.
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It was just a bad decision.
Yep, but again no sympathy for the Indians. I just hope that one of these decisions end up costing them big time or the ICC finally stand up to them and enforce DRS across the board.
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good ball from Plunkett, who looks so much more threatening when he bowls normal lengths
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We needed that badly, we need to get Vijay out and try and knock them over for a lead of less than 250-270.
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We need to keep bowling on those lengths, Plunkett has bowled well.
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Ali stikes!! Great catch from Cook, well done Moeen for tossing it up.
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Good bowling change from Cook as it led to a wicket. Although I hope Stokes isn't injured.
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Huge wicket
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Looking inevitable we'll go 1 down now. Yet again horrific bowling at the tail.
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Looking inevitable we'll go 1 down now. Yet again horrific bowling at the tail.
Yes i'm starting to agree lead just shy of 300 now and no real sign of us splitting these two, and with 'Nesh Kumar' to bowl at us i think they probably have enough already but they will continue
to chase runs and increase this considerable advantage.....
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319 to get....that is gonna be tough.
Time for the skipper to shine with the bat!!
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Too many I think.
Especially considering we're going to be 10 for 1 or thereabouts.
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Looks like Robson is trying to protect Cook from the new ball here.
The knock from Jadeja today is what I see Buttler providing for England. Add someone likes Hales up the top to score from the new ball and we'd be able to try to get on top of teams.
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Have a feeling this could be as good as over by the end of today, with us 6 or 7 down
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Too many I think.
Especially considering we're going to be 10 for 1 or thereabouts.
Only got ourselves to blame for that. Our bowling at the tail enders was terrible in both innings and we blew the chance to get a decent lead when we were batting. Saying that, if we can finish tonight needing 160 with five or six wickets in hand you never know!
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Ballance nicks off, bollocks.
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Cook and Bell owe us, so this is their chance.
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Bell fails again, and I think the game is slipping now. It was low but he played inside the line.
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That was bloody unfortunate
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Oh FFS
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Too many I think.
Especially considering we're going to be 10 for 1 or thereabouts.
Only got ourselves to blame for that. Our bowling at the tail enders was terrible in both innings and we blew the chance to get a decent lead when we were batting. Saying that, if we can finish tonight needing 160 with five or six wickets in hand you never know!
Oh well!!
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That is most probably that, and Cook fails again. Also an all too common collapse again.
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we really needed to get to the end of the day with 8+ wickets in hand and about 2000 to chase, losing Ballance, Bell and Cook for 2 runs has pretty much removed the slim chance of us getting an unlikely win here. That said we do still have 2 guys there who have the ability to bat out a full day, these 2 have to survive the day and then bat until around Lunch tomorrow though.
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we really needed to get to the end of the day with 8+ wickets in hand and about 2000 to chase, losing Ballance, Bell and Cook for 2 runs has pretty much removed the slim chance of us getting an unlikely win here. That said we do still have 2 guys there who have the ability to bat out a full day, these 2 have to survive the day and then bat until around Lunch tomorrow though.
Even I they do bat until lunch tomorrow I really can't see them getting 2000......
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Thing is we're consistently making the same mistakes. We have bowled too short in every game of the summer, we have collapsed in every game and we've dropped catches. There seems to be no capacity to learn in our side. Also it's very obvious that it's mainly the senior players that are letting us down as they did in the winter -
Cook - Not getting any runs
Bell - Not getting any runs
Prior - Not getting runs(except one innings and dropping a lot of catches)
Anderson - Getting some wickets, but bowling too short and wasting the new ball
Broad - Bowling too short and erratically.
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How long can Cook last realistically before he falls on his sword?
On a personal and team level he is failing. At least in the past when the likes of Vaughan and Strauss have been struggling to get runs the team have at least been winning to compensate for that.
Cook, poor form and no win in the last year as captain. What is the alternative though, is Anderson or Broad proper test captain material?
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Well Root and Ali survive, I'll say one thing they're going to have to get proactive against the spinners tomorrow.
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How long can Cook last realistically before he falls on his sword?
On a personal and team level he is failing. At least in the past when the likes of Vaughan and Strauss have been struggling to get runs the team have at least been winning to compensate for that.
Cook, poor form and no win in the last year as captain. What is the alternative though, is Anderson or Broad proper test captain material?
There really aren't many options in the current side. It would be a very bold move, but bringing in someone from outside to captain the team might be just what is needed. The one who stands out for me at the moment is Eoin Morgan, as he already captains the ODI side and is familiar with the players. This current malaise can't go on.
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Cook has to stand down as captain now and work on the technical side of his game. He needs the rest of the summer off and he's not a strong enough character to be captain.
For me the long term choice is Root but he's still learning his game at this level. We need a short term solution whilst Root is given time to develop. After the end of this series on 19 August our next test is against the West Indies in April 2015 and then before you know it we have a home Ashes series.
I would have gone with Bell but he's struggling with the bat so Eoin Morgan for me. Cook has to go as does Prior. The team looks rudderless and bereft of ideas and that must be down to a Captain who does not know which way to turn.
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The thing is we have 5 senior players in the team, and they're all under performing to varying degrees. Cook, Bell and Prior are performing terribly, Broad poorly and Anderson is below par. They haven't recovered from the winter and frankly it's pointless carrying on with them all.
In Cook's case he has to go as captain, because it's not like he's a brilliant leader but I believe he can get his batting back. Bell is borderline, but if anyone in the middle order has to go it should be him. I think Prior is probably done, he can't handle the short ball anymore and his keeping has been very poor. Broad needs to go away get whatever injury is hampering him properly sorted and come back fit. Anderson can stay but he has to start performing with the new ball.
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The thing is we have 5 senior players in the team, and they're all under performing to varying degrees. Cook, Bell and Prior are performing terribly, Broad poorly and Anderson is below par. They haven't recovered from the winter and frankly it's pointless carrying on with them all.
In Cook's case he has to go as captain, because it's not like he's a brilliant leader but I believe he can get his batting back. Bell is borderline, but if anyone in the middle order has to go it should be him. I think Prior is probably done, he can't handle the short ball anymore and his keeping has been very poor. Broad needs to go away get whatever injury is hampering him properly sorted and come back fit. Anderson can stay but he has to start performing with the new ball.
So who is your choice as Captain Paul?
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I'd go with Root, I know he's young but they're going to keep in the side. He's in the middle order which protects him. I think he's the only real choice at the moment.
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How long can Cook last realistically before he falls on his sword?
On a personal and team level he is failing. At least in the past when the likes of Vaughan and Strauss have been struggling to get runs the team have at least been winning to compensate for that.
Cook, poor form and no win in the last year as captain. What is the alternative though, is Anderson or Broad proper test captain material?
There really aren't many options in the current side. It would be a very bold move, but bringing in someone from outside to captain the team might be just what is needed. The one who stands out for me at the moment is Eoin Morgan, as he already captains the ODI side and is familiar with the players. This current malaise can't go on.
The difficulty there is that Morgan hasn't played well for England for a while himself.
It's an awful situation to be in where the only senior player who genuinely deserves to stay in the team is Jimmy Anderson and an opening bowler as the captain would be a terrible decision.
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I'd go with Root, I know he's young but they're going to keep in the side. He's in the middle order which protects him. I think he's the only real choice at the moment.
Let's hope he starts his fledgling captaincy with a captain-in-waiting innings tomorrow!
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I think I'm with 'other Paul' on this one, Root is the best choice, if Bell could get some runs I'd prefer him but you can't reward him for his current form.
I'd drop Prior for good, Buttler is a better option and young enough to be a long term choice.
I'd rest Cook for the summer, he's a great batsman but needs time, I'd bring in a slogger.
I'd promote Moeen to 4.
I'd rest Broad who looks like he's carrying an injury, and bring Jordan back.
I'd be tempted to give stokes 1 more match to get something with the bat and then leave him out for Woakes or Kerrigan if he fails.
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I think I'm with 'other Paul' on this one, Root is the best choice, if Bell could get some runs I'd prefer him but you can't reward him for his current form.
I'd drop Prior for good, Buttler is a better option and young enough to be a long term choice.
I'd rest Cook for the summer, he's a great batsman but needs time, I'd bring in a slogger.
I'd promote Moeen to 4.
I'd rest Broad who looks like he's carrying an injury, and bring Jordan back.
I'd be tempted to give stokes 1 more match to get something with the bat and then leave him out for Woakes or Kerrigan if he fails.
So who replaces Cook at the top of the order? I'd open with Moeen and Robson.
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I think I'm with 'other Paul' on this one, Root is the best choice, if Bell could get some runs I'd prefer him but you can't reward him for his current form.
I'd drop Prior for good, Buttler is a better option and young enough to be a long term choice.
I'd rest Cook for the summer, he's a great batsman but needs time, I'd bring in a slogger.
I'd promote Moeen to 4.
I'd rest Broad who looks like he's carrying an injury, and bring Jordan back.
I'd be tempted to give stokes 1 more match to get something with the bat and then leave him out for Woakes or Kerrigan if he fails.
So who replaces Cook at the top of the order? I'd open with Moeen and Robson.
As I said, 'a slogger' the only person I've seen enough of to think he could do the job is Hales, but Vince seems to be an alternative and has been named on here before. The key is we need someone who can start an innings like today and hit a bowler out of the attack. I really attacking player would've gone after Jadeja coming on so early and might have forced them back to the seamers. Look at the way Dhawan opened the indian 2nd innings, he didn't score a huge total but he did get them started quickly.
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I think I'm with 'other Paul' on this one, Root is the best choice, if Bell could get some runs I'd prefer him but you can't reward him for his current form.
I'd drop Prior for good, Buttler is a better option and young enough to be a long term choice.
I'd rest Cook for the summer, he's a great batsman but needs time, I'd bring in a slogger.
I'd promote Moeen to 4.
I'd rest Broad who looks like he's carrying an injury, and bring Jordan back.
I'd be tempted to give stokes 1 more match to get something with the bat and then leave him out for Woakes or Kerrigan if he fails.
Agree. I don't think Stokes is a good enough bowler at the moment to compensate for a lack of runs. If his poor form with the bat continues then I would rather have a front line bowler in the team instead. Jordan would be the obvious option and I think he was unlucky to be dropped in the first place. It could be argued he's a bit similar to Plunkett though and it might be worth going for a completely different option.
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My side for the next test which starts next Sunday would be:
Ali
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Morgan (c)
Buttler (w)
Plunkett
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
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My side for the next test which starts next Sunday would be:
Ali
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Morgan (c)
Buttler (w)
Plunkett
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
I think that side is fair enough, although I might give Stokes another shot and drop Broad for Jordan. Broad needs to get his injury sorted out.
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Cook can and will come back but he needs a break to sort himself out.
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My side for the next test which starts next Sunday would be:
Ali
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Morgan (c)
Buttler (w)
Plunkett
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
I think that side is fair enough, although I might give Stokes another shot and drop Broad for Jordan. Broad needs to get his injury sorted out.
I could live with that, I think Id swap Root and Bell though, and I'd want 1 of the openers to start positively. I think Moeen needs to bat higher though.
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I think I'm with 'other Paul' on this one, Root is the best choice, if Bell could get some runs I'd prefer him but you can't reward him for his current form.
I'd drop Prior for good, Buttler is a better option and young enough to be a long term choice.
I'd rest Cook for the summer, he's a great batsman but needs time, I'd bring in a slogger.
I'd promote Moeen to 4.
I'd rest Broad who looks like he's carrying an injury, and bring Jordan back.
I'd be tempted to give stokes 1 more match to get something with the bat and then leave him out for Woakes or Kerrigan if he fails.
So who replaces Cook at the top of the order? I'd open with Moeen and Robson.
As I said, 'a slogger' the only person I've seen enough of to think he could do the job is Hales, but Vince seems to be an alternative and has been named on here before. The key is we need someone who can start an innings like today and hit a bowler out of the attack. I really attacking player would've gone after Jadeja coming on so early and might have forced them back to the seamers. Look at the way Dhawan opened the indian 2nd innings, he didn't score a huge total but he did get them started quickly.
The next test is on his home ground as well. Hales' record in the four day game is hardly inspiring, so it would be a bit of a risk. I'd be more tempted to see how Cook went without the pressure of the captaincy in the next test before looking to replace him in the side.
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I just want to see us adapting to conditions better, our game, even at our best, was to play our game regardless and trust that having some great players was going to see us through. That worked when Cook, Trott, KP and Bell were scoring runs and Jimmy and Swann were ripping through teams with the ball but for whatever reason those players either aren't playing any more or aren't on the level they were a couple of years ago.
What T20 has done, for good or ill, is increase the scoring rate in test cricket and to stay competitive we need too change with it. 2 Openers who score with a strike rate of 35-40% aren't really suitable any more, being able to dig in and not give anything away will always be needed but you've got to be able to counter-attack as well and England don't we're always really passive, waiting for things to change rather than forcing a change.
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Don't think you can bring someone into the starting XI and make them captain at the same time.
Broad has captain experience (albeit in the one day format) but Anderson leads the attack, so I'd give it to Jimmy by default. By no means ideal to have a bowler captain, but none of the current batsmen should be considered. They are either bang out of form or finding their way in test cricket.
FWIW, If Cook is rested, they'll prob give it to Prior. As vice captain, it would be a major snub if he was overlooked.
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Don't think you can bring someone into the starting XI and make them captain at the same time.
Broad has captain experience (albeit in the one day format) but Anderson leads the attack, so I'd give it to Jimmy by default. By no means ideal to have a bowler captain, but none of the current batsmen should be considered. They are either bang out of form or finding their way in test cricket.
FWIW, If Cook is rested, they'll prob give it to Prior. As vice captain, it would be a major snub if he was overlooked.
Might be wrong, but I thought Bell took over the captaincy when Cook was off the field yesterday?
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Don't think you can bring someone into the starting XI and make them captain at the same time.
Broad has captain experience (albeit in the one day format) but Anderson leads the attack, so I'd give it to Jimmy by default. By no means ideal to have a bowler captain, but none of the current batsmen should be considered. They are either bang out of form or finding their way in test cricket.
FWIW, If Cook is rested, they'll prob give it to Prior. As vice captain, it would be a major snub if he was overlooked.
Might be wrong, but I thought Bell took over the captaincy when Cook was off the field yesterday?
he did, he's the official vice captain.
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I do think our inability to deviate from what we've done in the past is a major problem. Bowling too short has been a problem all summer, you could maybe forgive it in the first Test of the summer but our bowlers have been out bowled by two sub-continent teams. It's shocking that we haven't learnt from our mistakes.
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I do think our inability to deviate from what we've done in the past is a major problem. Bowling too short has been a problem all summer, you could maybe forgive it in the first Test of the summer but our bowlers have been out bowled by two sub-continent teams. It's shocking that we haven't learnt from our mistakes.
To be fair, we've not had much luck when it's come to bowling options over the past couple of years. Graham Onions, who I think would have a great option in English conditions, has had injury problems, as has Tremlett. Finn has fallen away badly and arguably our two top spinners (Swann and Monty) have gone.
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We ruined Finn by tampering with his action, he's only starting to recover due to being away from the England set up. Onions was fit plenty of time and he wasn't picked. In any case that's no excuse for consistently bowling too short from game to game and being out bowled at home by Sri Lanka and India.
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We ruined Finn by tampering with his action, he's only starting to recover due to being away from the England set up. Onions was fit plenty of time and he wasn't picked. In any case that's no excuse for consistently bowling too short from game to game and being out bowled at home by Sri Lanka and India.
Oh I agree, but it goes a way to explain why weare playing in test matches with two struggling experienced bowlers, two bowlers who haven't really torn up trees in the limited number of tests they have played and a part-time spinner.
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If Cook stands down (and I think he will if we lose this match) then I see no reason not to give Joe Root a go as captain for the rest of the series, Our senior players, with the odd exception, are not doing it at the moment, the young players are. Why not go for a clean sweep and build for the future, there is a lot of promise in this team, it's the more senior players who are letting us down, especially in the batting department.
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Don't think you can bring someone into the starting XI and make them captain at the same time.
Aka the Chris Cowdery plan
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Don't think you can bring someone into the starting XI and make them captain at the same time.
Aka the Chris Cowdery plan
Agree that you couldn't really do it with someone who has not been in the side before, but Morgan has and is captain of the team in other formats of the game. He has experience of captaining many of the players in the side. If the experienced players (Bell, Prior, Broad and Anderson) didn't like it then bye-bye chaps.
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"I went out for dinner with Stuart Broad last night and returned in a taxi. The driver was saying '30 quid to go to watch at Lord's tomorrow, they're rubbish!' All of this time, Stuart was sitting in the front seat. The driver then asked if he was my son. 'No,' I said. 'That's Stuart Broad.'
That made me laugh from Agnew.
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The taxi story was good but following it up with Tuffers and Aggers doing impressions of The Clangers was TMS genius.
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It gets better............. Tuffers is now doing Bagpuss impressions
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As publicized by Aggers
http://www.thelowry.com/event/heres-one-we-made-earlier
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Long way to go, but there is a slight glimmer at this point. If we were to pull a win out from this situation, it could be a real confidence boost.
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Long way to go, but there is a slight glimmer at this point. If we were to pull a win out from this situation, it could be a real confidence boost.
As I said yesterday:
we do still have 2 guys there who have the ability to bat out a full day, these 2 have to survive the day and then bat until around Lunch tomorrow though.
If they make it to lunch safe we can start looking at what we need to do to win here. If at least one of this pair makes it to tea we're in a very good place to try to push on, I'd prefer things if Prior and Stokes were batting well.
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New ball will be key. If these two see off the new ball, then the balance may swing back our way.
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Root to 51 with 3 fours.....Come on England..
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Brillant little counter from Root here, 14 off the over and that's a lot of pressure on India suddenly.
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Root to 51 with 3 fours.....Come on England..
155 to win. The hour after lunch is going to crucial.
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That was a massive blow losing Ali to the last ball before lunch.
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That's a huge blow after an excellent morning. I felt Moeen was key to our chances. I really like Moeen and rate him highly but he's got to learn to keep watching the ball.
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Hate to say it considering he played well, but that was really really poor from Ali. He should have known the short ball was coming, and either got out of the way or just let it hit him.
He looked like a no11 playing that.
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I think Ali does need to work on his concentration, he seemed to be already at lunch there.
losing 1 wicket, as they've said on TMS, wouldn't have been considered the worst thing in the world, it really needs one of Prior or Stokes to show some form now though, we also need Root to stay in there all day now, and for him to hog the strike a fair bit.
Also, if we can get to 220 before we lose another one the number of runs India have to play with becomes a big factor.
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I think Ali does need to work on his concentration, he seemed to be already at lunch there.
losing 1 wicket, as they've said on TMS, wouldn't have been considered the worst thing in the world, it really needs one of Prior or Stokes to show some form now though, we also need Root to stay in there all day now, and for him to hog the strike a fair bit.
Also, if we can get to 220 before we lose another one the number of runs India have to play with becomes a big factor.
Big blow, but not a fatal one at this point. Root is probably going to have to bat through now, with the rest providing the kind of support they are capable of if we are going to get anywhere near winning. Massive knock for Prior, as his place could depend on this. What an afternoon we could be in for!!
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Time for Prior to stand up and be counted, although I wont hold my breath.
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The Indians have been able to build a partnership or nick wickets at key times to sap the momentum.
This will be some comeback if England manage it.
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Prior likes his pull shots doesn't he?
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Ali is a really classy player, but does need to work on his concentration. When he gets it out it tends to be to deliviries he shouldn't be getting out to. That being said in both innings he's played an important part in key partnerships that got us back into the game, so I wouldn't be too critical. He should be a main stay of our middle order.
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Oh just fuck off Prior you utter fucking idiot
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Yet another innings where the 3 senior batsmen have badly let the team down
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Fucking hell Prior, so predictable.
If his keeping was any good you could excuse his poor batting form, but he needs to be dropped.
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Prior needs to go, criminal from the senior players again in this game. I include the senior bowlers in that, because allowing India to get 295 on that first day was atrocious and bowling short to Jadeja was equally dumb.
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This is a big innings for Stokes, if he doesn't perform Jordan should be back in really.
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FFS Prior why??
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Prior really is an idiot. If he was actually capable of taking the game away from a team with an aggressive spell I'd be more willing the accept batting like this but he's been a walking wicket for a long time now. Given his form his job today was to hang around for 15-20overs and support Root.
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And now Stokes, for a pair.
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See there's the difference, Moeen might get stick for not concentrating but he made 39 valuable runs and batted through a really tough period. Prior gives it away with a stupid hook after no time at all. It's a shame for Prior because he was excellent for us but in the last 18 months he's been woeful.
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and then Stokes gives his wicket away as well, they really have no idea how to adapt to the situation, 2 fucking idiotic shots have probably thrown any chance for us here.
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All that Prior and Stokes had to do was stick around and let Root score the runs
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That's for ducks in a row for Stokes, he has to go now and Jordan come in. He needs to go back to county cricket and sort out his batting, because his form has been awful with the bat. I rate him highly and think he'll come good, but he doesn't justify a place in the side at the moment.
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And Stokes goes for a duck.
Why are we playing the pull shot so bloody often?
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Prior really has to go now. There is absolutely no justification to continue selecting him.
Stokes might be bowling okayish at the moment, but his batting is horrendous and he doesn't warrant selection either.
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What the fuck is going on?
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Well I suppose its a fittingly pathetic way for us to lose
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Root gone, fucking pathetic after lunch
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What the fuck is going on?
*shrugs*
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If there's three men stood on the boundary waiting for the hook shot...... stop playing the fecking hook shot.
They're only allowed two bouncers per inning
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Fuck off Cook
Fuck off Bell
Fuck off Prior
Fuck off Stokes
Fuck off Moores
Just fuck off
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Fucking shite
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Like I said compare Ali's innings of 39 with those from Prior and Stokes. Yes Ali lost concentration, but it's understandable after coming in at a really tough period last night and that battle through the morning. To get through the morning with one wicket down was excellent and Prior and Stokes have ruined it. Both should be dropped, Stokes can and will come back but he needs to get his batting sorted out.
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It's all done now. The leadership of this side has to change now, Cook needs to be relieved of the captaincy. The lack of responsibility from some players is atrocious.
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Moores has to go also. The decision to give him a second crack at the coaches job now looks ludicrous
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Why do they continually play the hook shot? Are they too stupid to realise that India are bowling to a plan and we are playing straight into their hands?
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Fuck off Moores
Just fuck off
Much as I dislike Vaughan he made a good point this morning about how Moores has been left with an awful lot to sort out by Flower, think he needs to be cut some slack as England are obviously a team in transition.
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Oh also another collapse just to continue our repitition of mistakes. Bowl too short in every game, collapse in every game, drop chances in every game, throw away good positions in every game and senior players fail in every game.
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I don't think Moores should go yet, but Cook has to. These batting collapses and the repitition of the same mistakes are symbolic of a team that doesn't really try for the captain.
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Fuck off Moores
Just fuck off
Much as I dislike Vaughan he made a good point this morning about how Moores has been left with an awful lot to sort out by Flower, think he needs to be cut some slack as England are obviously a team in transition.
A team in transition yes, but not a team that should be getting embarrassed at home by subcontinent seam bowlers.
He failed miserably in his first spell in charge. In his second so far we have played braindead cricket for the majority of it, whether it be continually bowling short or setting poor fields, or incredulous batting tactics. He must have played a huge role in that.
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You've got to give him time, if you read back through this thread you'll see demands for Robson, Ali, Root, Ballance, Plunkett to be dropped and demands for Stokes to play, he's now joined the list of those who need dropping. Jordan is a match winner it seems but only when he's not playing, I think a little patience is required, it's the senior players who are letting the side down rather than those relatively new to Test cricket.
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Prior's time is done. He shouldn't have got back in the side anyway. Bell, you should be next.
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I was dead against Moores being reappointed in the first place. He was poor in his first spell in charge and doesn't appear to have learnt anything since
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Right team for the next game for me should be something like -
Ali
Robson
Ballance
Bell(just about clings on)
Root
Morgan(Captain)
Buttler
Jordan
Plunkett
Broad(as I don't want to rush Finn back)
Anderson
Cook needs to get away and sort out his game in county cricket, if that means being loaned to a different county to get game time then so be it. Prior is sadly for him done as an international cricketer now, he was excellent but well over the hill. Stokes needs to go back to county cricket and sort his batting out, but he'll come back and will be an excellent player.
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You've got to give him time, if you read back through this thread you'll see demands for Robson, Ali, Root, Ballance, Plunkett to be dropped and demands for Stokes to play, he's now joined the list of those who need dropping. Jordan is a match winner it seems but only when he's not playing, I think a little patience is required, it's the senior players who are letting the side down rather than those relatively new to Test cricket.
I agree Chris but it is inexcusable for so many batsmen regardless of experience to give their wickets away in such a cavalier manner.
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Prior's time is done. He shouldn't have got back in the side anyway. Bell, you should be next.
The thing is, I'd still be highly surprised if Prior, or any of the chronically underperforming players were dropped for the next test.
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This has been a disgraceful session of cricket, team in transition or not.
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Right team for the next game for me should be something like -
Ali
Robson
Ballance
Bell(just about clings on)
Root
Morgan(Captain)
Buttler
Jordan
Plunkett
Broad(as I don't want to rush Finn back)
Anderson
Cook needs to get away and sort out his game in county cricket, if that means being loaned to a different county to get game time then so be it. Prior is sadly for him done as an international cricketer now, he was excellent but well over the hill. Stokes needs to go back to county cricket and sort his batting out, but he'll come back and will be an excellent player.
I think it's pointless Cook going back to Essex and playing against second division seamers. The ECB should force a loan to a first division side
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5 wickets today all to the short ball.
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Yep diabolical and spineless, this simply cannot continue there has to be a change. Two of our young players in Ali and Root got us into a position where had a good chance and it's be ruined in embarrassing circumstances.
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It's important that India aren't built up into something they are not here, in order to take attention away from England.
India haven't won a test away in over 3 years. Yet they've embarrassed us in this game
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The ultimate irony is that our bowlers have tried bowling short all summer and it's been proved to be completely the wrong tactic. India have used it today and only against a pathetically flimsy batting line up would it work, and guess who's flimsy enough for that....England.
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What makes it worse, is that in all honesty, we've has the considerably better conditions throughout this match. We had a very green pitch to bowl on first up, then much flatter conditions to bat on.
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The ultimate irony is that our bowlers have tried bowling short all summer and it's been proved to be completely the wrong tactic. India have used it today and only against a pathetically flimsy batting line up would it work, and guess who's flimsy enough for that....England.
It must have been a tactic dreamt up by Cook and Moores at lunch, that we were going to go after the short ball.
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...and Jadeja runs out Anderson to end the game
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The crowd really needs to get stuck into Cook in his presentation interview. A message needs to be sent.
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Right team for the next game for me should be something like -
Ali
Robson
Ballance
Bell(just about clings on)
Root
Morgan(Captain)
Buttler
Jordan
Plunkett
Broad(as I don't want to rush Finn back)
Anderson
Cook needs to get away and sort out his game in county cricket, if that means being loaned to a different county to get game time then so be it. Prior is sadly for him done as an international cricketer now, he was excellent but well over the hill. Stokes needs to go back to county cricket and sort his batting out, but he'll come back and will be an excellent player.
I'd swap Root and Bell in the order and I bring in Kerrigan or Woakes for Broad so he can get fit.
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The crowd really needs to get stuck into Cook in his presentation interview. A message needs to be sent.
Yep, a resounding chorus of "You Don't Know What You're Doing" from the members enclosure at Lord's would be a sight to behold.
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A run out ends an hour of comedy batting.
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can't believe it....one wicket lost before lunch......4 hours and two sessions to get the runs...that is a pathetic effort England....
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Are those clamouring for Jos Buttler aware he has said he isn't ready to make the step up to Test cricket yet?
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Right team for the next game for me should be something like -
Ali
Robson
Ballance
Bell(just about clings on)
Root
Morgan(Captain)
Buttler
Jordan
Plunkett
Broad(as I don't want to rush Finn back)
Anderson
Cook needs to get away and sort out his game in county cricket, if that means being loaned to a different county to get game time then so be it. Prior is sadly for him done as an international cricketer now, he was excellent but well over the hill. Stokes needs to go back to county cricket and sort his batting out, but he'll come back and will be an excellent player.
I'd swap Root and Bell in the order and I bring in Kerrigan or Woakes for Broad so he can get fit.
I don't think Kerrigan is ready yet, and I'm not sure Woakes is good enough as a seamer. If I were to replace Broad so he can get fit, it'd probably be someone like Overton for me.
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There has to be a change now though, it can't continue that was a shambolic and embarrassing defeat in a game where we had every advantage possible.
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Are those clamouring for Jos Buttler aware he has said he isn't ready to make the step up to Test cricket yet?
The ECB obviously think he is ready, as he wouldn't have been called up as cover for the 1st test otherwise.
I'd rather try something that has a chance of working with Buttler, than carry on with something that is certain to fail with Prior.
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Right team for the next game for me should be something like -
Ali
Robson
Ballance
Bell(just about clings on)
Root
Morgan(Captain)
Buttler
Jordan
Plunkett
Broad(as I don't want to rush Finn back)
Anderson
Cook needs to get away and sort out his game in county cricket, if that means being loaned to a different county to get game time then so be it. Prior is sadly for him done as an international cricketer now, he was excellent but well over the hill. Stokes needs to go back to county cricket and sort his batting out, but he'll come back and will be an excellent player.
I'd swap Root and Bell in the order and I bring in Kerrigan or Woakes for Broad so he can get fit.
I don't think Kerrigan is ready yet, and I'm not sure Woakes is good enough as a seamer. If I were to replace Broad so he can get fit, it'd probably be someone like Overton for me.
I think Woakes would have been a decent bet on the first day's pitch here, but in flat conditions not so much.
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Are those clamouring for Jos Buttler aware he has said he isn't ready to make the step up to Test cricket yet?
The ECB obviously think he is ready, as he wouldn't have been called up as cover for the 1st test otherwise.
I'd rather try something that has a chance of working with Buttler, than carry on with something that is certain to fail with Prior.
I'd also argue he's much better than Prior is now.
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If Broad needs surgery then I'd consider replacing him for the time being with Bresnan.
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Right team for the next game for me should be something like -
Ali
Robson
Ballance
Bell(just about clings on)
Root
Morgan(Captain)
Buttler
Jordan
Plunkett
Broad(as I don't want to rush Finn back)
Anderson
Cook needs to get away and sort out his game in county cricket, if that means being loaned to a different county to get game time then so be it. Prior is sadly for him done as an international cricketer now, he was excellent but well over the hill. Stokes needs to go back to county cricket and sort his batting out, but he'll come back and will be an excellent player.
I'd swap Root and Bell in the order and I bring in Kerrigan or Woakes for Broad so he can get fit.
I don't think Kerrigan is ready yet, and I'm not sure Woakes is good enough as a seamer. If I were to replace Broad so he can get fit, it'd probably be someone like Overton for me.
I think Woakes would have been a decent bet on the first day's pitch here, but in flat conditions not so much.
Woakes, Morgan, Kerrigan and Buttler all need to be the 'next off the rank' they've all been taken out of county games to be with England, you can't bypass them when you make changes.
I agree that Kerrigan might well not be ready but the key for a developing spinner is to get him in the middle bowling lots of overs. They either back him and give him game time and a decent chance (i.e. more than 8 overs) or you leave him with Lancs until next summer and then review things, pulling him out of games to carry drinks is wrong.
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What a load of bullshit from Cook. So Prior keeps his place as long as "he" decides he wants it?
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Are those clamouring for Jos Buttler aware he has said he isn't ready to make the step up to Test cricket yet?
If he's deemed not ready, then a stop gap like Chris Read batting down the order may be an option.
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What a load of bullshit from Cook. So Prior keeps his place as long as "he" decides he wants it?
Tired ramblings of a captain who will be relieved of his duties tomorrow.
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The next test is at Aegeas bowl starting Sunday currently at Horsham you have a battle going on between Jordan & Woakes, this game only started today thereby finishing Thursday,
if either of this pair are selected what happens are they able to pull them out the match as i would assume they would prefer them to join up with the squad sooner rather than later.
If i had a choice i would go for the Woakes option, if he had been playing in this England second innings i'm certain he would not have succumbed to those pull shots having greater control
when batting, the adventurous style of Jordan would have meant him going the same way of his compatriots.
It could be of course that Anderson may be suspended for up to 3 games from the result of his review tomorrow so there may be an enforced change there, if no suspension keep Anderson and
leave Broad out along with Stokes and has Plunkett done enough to keep his place, changing 3 would probably be too severe.
I'm not too sure what will happen to Cook but i assume he will keep his place, is there the opportunity to bring Michael Carberry in to play at his home ground, could the make up of the side be
something like:
1 Cook or Robson
2 Carberry
3 Ballance
4 Root
5 Bell
6 Ali
7 Prior or Buttler
8 Woakes
9 Jordan
10 Plunkett
11 Anderson or Broad
If its Broad he slips in at 9 an every Jordan goes down one with Plunkett at 11.
Captaincy well thats the million dollar one isn't it....Bell or Root personally for me Bell.
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Are those clamouring for Jos Buttler aware he has said he isn't ready to make the step up to Test cricket yet?
I am, and to an extent I think he's right, but Prior has to go now, neither his batting or his keeping are strong enough to keep his place. So then you look at do we want someone who's ready now but has a year or 2 to offer or do we go for a guy who's a bit raw but can give us 10years. I pick the latter.
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I'd select Jordan ahead of Woakes every time. Jordan has the ability to make things happen, which is something that we sadly lack at the moment.
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Are those clamouring for Jos Buttler aware he has said he isn't ready to make the step up to Test cricket yet?
I am, and to an extent I think he's right, but Prior has to go now, neither his batting or his keeping are strong enough to keep his place. So then you look at do we want someone who's ready now but has a year or 2 to offer or do we go for a guy who's a bit raw but can give us 10years. I pick the latter.
Yep, it's the way I see it aswell.
Buttler is the sort of cricketer we should be investing in.
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Doesn't sound from Moores like Cook is going to go. It would be a stronger decision from Cook to quit than to stay on. Also all of the talk about 'iron will' and 'strength of character' is way off the mark. It's about performing to a high level and being tactically astute and we're a million miles off both.
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From Moores' comments, I think we will see Prior gone.
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I'd select Jordan ahead of Woakes every time. Jordan has the ability to make things happen, which is something that we sadly lack at the moment.
Forgeting just Test records as there isn't really anything to compare between the 2, but i have always been an advocate of Woakes and to be fair always will, so i thought i would look at the first class comparison between the two not knowing really what i would find, i assumed that Woakes would be on top batting wise as for all his bluster in the one day game his longer game is not that impressive so batting first:
Woakes
Jordan
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I'd select Jordan ahead of Woakes every time. Jordan has the ability to make things happen, which is something that we sadly lack at the moment.
Forgeting just Test records as there isn't really anything to compare between the 2, but i have always been an advocate of Woakes and to be fair always will, so i thought i would look at the first class comparison between the two not knowing really what i would find, i assumed that Woakes would be on top batting wise as for all his bluster in the one day game his longer game is not that impressive so batting first:
Woakes
Jordan
Jordan has something about him that I really like, a quality that can't be coached. He has the ability to make something happen. He's the sort of bowler that a captain throws the ball to knowing that he will more than likely get you a wicket. There aren't many that can do that.
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I'd select Jordan ahead of Woakes every time. Jordan has the ability to make things happen, which is something that we sadly lack at the moment.
Forgeting just Test records as there isn't really anything to compare between the 2, but i have always been an advocate of Woakes and to be fair always will, so i thought i would look at the first class comparison between the two not knowing really what i would find, i assumed that Woakes would be on top batting wise as for all his bluster in the one day game his longer game is not that impressive so batting first:
Matches Inns NO Runs HS 100 50 Ave
Woakes 97 137 34 3928 152* 8 16 32.08
Jordan 63 85 12 1592 92 0 6 21.8
Admittedly neither are gonna get into the England set up on their batting prowess but their bowling which comes out as:
Matches Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave
Woakes 97 167 16392 8337 335 7-20 11-97 24.88
Jordan 63 107 9665 5679 177 7-43 9-58 32.08
Woakes 25 yrs and 141 days March 2 1989
Jordan 25 yrs and 290 days October 28th 1988
So in terms of youth(only just) but experience Woakes comes out on top in both camps. All about opinion mine just happens to lie in Woakes camp!!!
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The stats are a good comparison PGW but they don't tell you one crucial thing. Jordan is half a yard quicker than Woakes.
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I'd select Jordan ahead of Woakes every time. Jordan has the ability to make things happen, which is something that we sadly lack at the moment.
Forgeting just Test records as there isn't really anything to compare between the 2, but i have always been an advocate of Woakes and to be fair always will, so i thought i would look at the first class comparison between the two not knowing really what i would find, i assumed that Woakes would be on top batting wise as for all his bluster in the one day game his longer game is not that impressive so batting first:
Woakes
Jordan
Jordan has something about him that I really like, a quality that can't be coached. He has the ability to make something happen. He's the sort of bowler that a captain throws the ball to knowing that he will more than likely get you a wicket. There aren't many that can do that.
Jordan does need some coaching though - he could probably do more if someone coached him in regard to his run up, it is all over the place currently, that does need improving, now i'm not saying do a 'Steven Finn' on him but his county or David Saker should be working on said run up may be add a couple of more yards of pace which may make him a threat.
Jordan would be in my one day team every day but Test side - currently a no from me......but happy to be proved wrong if he comes in ans smashes Indian stumps all over the shop!!!
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I'd select Jordan ahead of Woakes every time. Jordan has the ability to make things happen, which is something that we sadly lack at the moment.
Forgeting just Test records as there isn't really anything to compare between the 2, but i have always been an advocate of Woakes and to be fair always will, so i thought i would look at the first class comparison between the two not knowing really what i would find, i assumed that Woakes would be on top batting wise as for all his bluster in the one day game his longer game is not that impressive so batting first:
Woakes
Jordan
Jordan has something about him that I really like, a quality that can't be coached. He has the ability to make something happen. He's the sort of bowler that a captain throws the ball to knowing that he will more than likely get you a wicket. There aren't many that can do that.
Jordan does need some coaching though - he could probably do more if someone coached him in regard to his run up, it is all over the place currently, that does need improving, now i'm not saying do a 'Steven Finn' on him but his county or David Saker should be working on said run up may be add a couple of more yards of pace which may make him a threat.
Jordan would be in my one day team every day but Test side - currently a no from me......but happy to be proved wrong if he comes in ans smashes Indian stumps all over the shop!!!
I don't want Saker anywhere near our bowlers ever again. What he did to Finn was atrocious and he now presides over an attack that has been out bowled AT HOME by Sri Lanka and India. He has to go along with Messrs Cook, Prior and for the time being at least, Ben Stokes.
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The stats are a good comparison PGW but they don't tell you one crucial thing. Jordan is half a yard quicker than Woakes.
Woakes has upped his speed this season and is on a par with Jordan now.....appearances look as though Jordan is quicker fact is he isn't...he may well become so if
he sorts his run up out. An important factor in both their careers is probably the fact that Woakes has been the product of some great coaching in that of Graeme Welch
and to a lesser degree Ashley Giles....without looking it up i have no idea who the Sussex bowling coach is!!!!
Make it 336 wickets for Woakes - just took the 4th Sussex wicket!!!
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Stuff it PGW let's have them both in the test side. They can't do any worse can they?
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Stuff it PGW let's have them both in the test side. They can't do any worse can they?
I will say that in at least one Test Match this summer you will see them play in the same side!!!!
I am listening to Bears match currently and as i was about to press post button they said the same thing Woakes natural replacement for Stokes and Jordan in when they decide to rotate one of the main 2!!!!
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Thing is you can break the current squad into various catergories -
Definite starters -
Root
Ali
Anderson
Ballance
Deserves to stay -
Robson
Plunkett
Lucky to likely remain -
Bell
Broad(although I think he should have his injury sorted)
Need to go away and work on their game -
Cook
Stokes
Time's up -
Prior
Then you have Jordan, Woakes and Buttler who can all make cases to play.
On the Kerrigan issue, Ali scored 32 and 39 and took 3 wickets which is enough of a contribution to keep him as our spin option at the moment for me.
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I'd select Jordan ahead of Woakes every time. Jordan has the ability to make things happen, which is something that we sadly lack at the moment.
Forgeting just Test records as there isn't really anything to compare between the 2, but i have always been an advocate of Woakes and to be fair always will, so i thought i would look at the first class comparison between the two not knowing really what i would find, i assumed that Woakes would be on top batting wise as for all his bluster in the one day game his longer game is not that impressive so batting first:
Matches Inns NO Runs HS 100 50 Ave
Woakes 97 137 34 3928 152* 8 16 32.08
Jordan 63 85 12 1592 92 0 6 21.8
Admittedly neither are gonna get into the England set up on their batting prowess but their bowling which comes out as:
Matches Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave
Woakes 97 167 16392 8337 335 7-20 11-97 24.88
Jordan 63 107 9665 5679 177 7-43 9-58 32.08
Woakes 25 yrs and 141 days March 2 1989
Jordan 25 yrs and 290 days October 28th 1988
So in terms of youth(only just) but experience Woakes comes out on top in both camps. All about opinion mine just happens to lie in Woakes camp!!!
How about Keith Barker?
His averages stand up against both Jordan and Woakes and he is also a lefty, giving us something completely different.
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George Dobell has it pretty much spot on:
It was probably fitting that defeat should be sealed with a run-out: it summed up a hapless, helpless display from an England side full of panic and littered with self-harm and basic errors. Every time it seems they have reached a new low, they find a pot-hole to fall down. England are now winless in their last 10 Tests and have lost seven of the last nine. The plummet, the pain, seem endless.
There are times in sport when a team can be simply outclassed by a superior rival. And that is no disgrace. The England side that was thrashed by West Indies in 1984 found themselves in a battle between men and superheroes. They could not win.
That is not the case here. England, not for the first time this summer, have been outplayed in their own back yard by a side from the subcontinent. A side who had not won a Test away from home for more than three years.
But India's bowlers utilised the conditions better; their batsmen left the ball better. England were bounced out by an Indian seamer - as they were at Headingley by a Sri Lankan seamer - for perhaps the first time in history. An Indian bowler who came into the game with a Test bowling average of 37.79. And it happened on a tailor-made green pitch when they won the toss.
It used to be said that a player never recovers from a disappointing Ashes. And it is true that history is littered with examples of players who, once exposed in Australia, have never been quite the same again.
It looks increasingly as if that is the case now. The majority of those - Joe Root is perhaps the only exception - who were thrashed in Australia have struggled to recover (Jonathan Trott, Boyd Rankin and Steven Finn might be even better examples of players damaged by the tour), with a weakness against the short ball having developed like an epidemic within the team. Call it shellshock, call it post-traumatic stress, but to lose one batsman to a reckless pull stroke might be considered unfortunate, as Oscar Wilde so almost said, but to lose three? To lose five batsmen to short deliveries within an hour? England are in denial if they fail to accept they have a problem.
Moores inherited a beaten, broken, mentally exhausted side. He has inherited a failing system whose inadequacies had been masked by the performances of a handful of excellent players and he has inherited an environment too cosy for those whose faces fit and one that ostracises the rest.
How else to explain the post-match support for Matt Prior? Prior has undoubtedly been a fine player for England but, after equalling the record for the most byes conceded by an English keeper in a home Test for 80 years, he fell to a pull shot for the second time in the game as obligingly as if providing catching practice.
This is in stark contrast to the criticism of Kevin Pietersen following his dismissals in the Ashes. Whereas Pietersen was labelled selfish, Prior was informed by Alastair Cook that it was "up to him" if he wanted to continue playing. There is more than a sniff of hypocrisy about such inequitable treatment. But whereas "Matty" is one of the boys, Pietersen was an outsider. Merit hardly comes into the equation. The decision to dispense with Pietersen, England's highest runscorer in the Ashes, remember, remains weak and damaging.
Moores might also reflect on how it has come to pass that, in a nation with 18 first-class counties, all with well-financed academies, a Lions team and age-group teams at county and national level, that there are so few realistic options for an alternative captain, spinner or wicketkeeper.
He might reflect on the lack of leaders in his side, the lack of tactical awareness of his bowlers and the lack of flexibility he is allowed to make to the captaincy in a system in which the ECB's chairman and the England team managing director have backed Cook so resolutely that to sack him might be politically impossible.
And he might reflect on why it is that several of those who have come into the side and held their own - Gary Ballance and Sam Robson - developed, at least in part, in other countries. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the English system is not producing in the quality or quantity it should be.
Moores has done little to suggest he is the man to turn the tide but it is mistakes made long before his time that are harming England now. The decision to squeeze the first half of the County Championship season into April and May - a decision made largely due to make time for a T20 window that no longer exists - limited the opportunities for spin bowlers, while the emergence of free-thinking leaders was stunted by a system that seems to view such characters as trouble.
It was, after all, in a team meeting in Australia in which the problems with Pietersen came to a head. Pietersen, asked for his opinions on the failings of the team, gave them only to find they were unpalatable to the sensitivities of some of those around him. And in English cricket, rocking the boat is a far worse sin than losing. Nick Compton was dropped as much due to the fact that a coterie of senior players did not like him as anything to do with his form; senior players who did nothing to make new faces feel comfortable and increased their fear of failure.
So it was that few of the current side developed the leadership skills they might have done. They learned long ago that they would progress more smoothly if they kept their mouths shut. The dominance of Andy Flower stunted the development of several in the England dressing room and instead of players learning to think for themselves, the relationship became prescriptive. More like teacher-pupil or parent-child. There is no place for free-thinkers like Pietersen or Compton.
Equally, England have developed a generation of coaches who distrust flair and who prefer reliability to genius. Coaches who look smart in blazers, fill in spreadsheets attentively and never threaten the positions of those above them. Any player who emerges through the academy in England does so in spite of it, not because of it. Why else would it be that fast bowlers involved in the England set-up drop pace by the month - just look at Steven Finn or Liam Plunkett - or that batsmen fresh to the team are out-performing those who have been established for years?
With three Tests remaining in the series, England have a chance to turn things around. But to do so they will have to defeat not just an improved India side, but their own history, their own tired bodies, jaded minds and broken system.
I think the bit about Prior's treatment compared to that of Pietersen's is most pertinent
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The clique stuff has to stop it really does.
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I agree George does have it spot on and goes some way to explain why Moores got the job over Ashley Giles, Giles was a supporter/ believer in Pietersen which wasn't in
the make up of what the Captain and other selectors at the time wanted, Pietersen and so it seems Compton wanted a voice and probably Giles would have give them that opportunity to air their views!!!
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I am sorry but I do not agree with the reasoning that Ali is a must in the selection stakes. Twice now he has given his wicket away by turning away from short balls and completely taking his eye off them. In test cricket today this is the equivalent of committing suicide. Every team will now immediately pepper him with short stuff and until he can show a different technique as to how he is going to play it, I would suggest that he should return to county cricket.
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I think the bit about the lack of pace is interesting. Plunkett came into the side billed as the quickest in the country. His average speeds have barely been mid 80s.
Why can't we produce even one bowler with actual pace in this country?
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Bob Willis was on top form on The Verdict tonight:
"I've seen fewer hookers in Soho on a Saturday night than I have today"
"The dunces cap was going round the entire England dressing room quicker than pass the parcel. No sooner than it was placed on Matt Prior's bald pate it was whipped onto the ginger nut of Ben Stokes, and then quickly settled on the cherubic noggin of Joe Root"
"Mitchell Johnson will be laughing into his Vegimite"
The ONLY good thing when England lose are when Willis goes off on his rants ;D
Bish
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Prior has pulled out of the squad, shows he's got more character than Cook.
http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/articles/prior-taking-break
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After much thought and analysis I conclude that I've absolutely no fucking idea where we go from this.
A year ago we were pummeling Australia at Lords. The way this whole set up has imploded really is of epic proportions. I think the article on the previous page wasn't too far of the money I'm afraid.
Re Cooks captaincy, you could see in that 1st innings they'd lost the plot with the short, round the wicket stuff. So where is the support, where is Jimmy saying hold on let's have a re-think here as senior players, where is Prior giving input, where is Moores - after all as the new coach part of his mandate is a new broom and all that. Are they all mute letting Cook take the fall or are they all guilty in this instance.
I think Strausses comments that Cook "needs to get angry" are quite telling. After Australia it was always going to get worse before it got better such was the magnitude and fall out of the defeat but it's the manner in which were losing that pisses me off most.
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After much thought and analysis I conclude that I've absolutely no fucking idea where we go from this.
I'm not so worried.
We've been through this before, those of us who remember the horror shows of the late 80's and right through the 90's will be chuckling and nodding, What we have now that we didn't have then is a core of young talent who have already started to prove themselves at the highest level.
We need a new captain, (I still reckon we should go for broke and give it to Root), a proper spinner (fuck knows, there must be be somewhere) another seamer for when Anderson and Broad can't do it (love Plunkett, but he's not a match winner, Jordan might be), and we have to replace Prior, if he was catching everything you could excuse his batting, but he isn't.
Tough times but I reckon the young lads will hold it together while we promote a few even less experienced players. We need to do it now though, The Ashes are looming.
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After much thought and analysis I conclude that I've absolutely no fucking idea where we go from this.
I'm not so worried.
We've been through this before, those of us who remember the horror shows of the late 80's and right through the 90's will be chuckling and nodding, What we have now that we didn't have then is a core of young talent who have already started to prove themselves at the highest level.
We need a new captain, (I still reckon we should go for broke and give it to Root), a proper spinner (fuck knows, there must be be somewhere) another seamer for when Anderson and Broad can't do it (love Plunkett, but he's not a match winner, Jordan might be), and we have to replace Prior, if he was catching everything you could excuse his batting, but he isn't.
Tough times but I reckon the young lads will hold it together while we promote a few even less experienced players. We need to do it now though, The Ashes are looming.
Not sure there will be many chuckling after that today. As for not having a core of young talent in the 90's, how about Atherton, Butcher, Hussain, Thorpe, Stewart, Gough, Cork, Caddick etc?
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I think the bit about the lack of pace is interesting. Plunkett came into the side billed as the quickest in the country. His average speeds have barely been mid 80s.
Why can't we produce even one bowler with actual pace in this country?
I've ofte wondered if it is a case of players being over coached from a young age with the emphasis on accuracy as opposed to speed.
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After much thought and analysis I conclude that I've absolutely no fucking idea where we go from this.
I'm not so worried.
We've been through this before, those of us who remember the horror shows of the late 80's and right through the 90's will be chuckling and nodding, What we have now that we didn't have then is a core of young talent who have already started to prove themselves at the highest level.
We need a new captain, (I still reckon we should go for broke and give it to Root), a proper spinner (fuck knows, there must be be somewhere) another seamer for when Anderson and Broad can't do it (love Plunkett, but he's not a match winner, Jordan might be), and we have to replace Prior, if he was catching everything you could excuse his batting, but he isn't.
Tough times but I reckon the young lads will hold it together while we promote a few even less experienced players. We need to do it now though, The Ashes are looming.
Not sure there will be many chuckling after that today. As for not having a core of young talent in the 90's, how about Atherton, Butcher, Hussain, Thorpe, Stewart, Gough, Cork, Caddick etc?
Yeah, there was definitely talent in that era. I think most of their failures collectively, were down to the mental scars that a truly excellent Australian side routinely inflicted.
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Right we need somebody behind the stumps and a new captain and I want The Bears to win the County Championship.Chris read would do a job for England.
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Now Prior is out Butler is the future and they'll get slaughtered if they don't pick him.
Captain, no idea but I'd be reluctant to give it to Root as he's a young lad whose developing nicely and really doesn't need the Captaincy thrust upon him at this point in his career. Morgan if anyone.
It's a mess though make no mistake, Trott, Pietersen, Prior, Bresnan, Swann and possibly Cook effectively gone inside 9 months.
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I am sorry but I do not agree with the reasoning that Ali is a must in the selection stakes. Twice now he has given his wicket away by turning away from short balls and completely taking his eye off them. In test cricket today this is the equivalent of committing suicide. Every team will now immediately pepper him with short stuff and until he can show a different technique as to how he is going to play it, I would suggest that he should return to county cricket.
Alternatively you could look at an inexperienced player who has scored a great gritty hundred trying to save a game(in which he was bounced), who has also been involved in significant partnerships that got England back into the game. There are a host of players who should be dropped before we even look at Ali. He's been one of the few positives of the summer.
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Prior did the right thing.
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Dobell's article on Cricinfo is excellent and for me ring true in several areas.
I really think it's time to sit back and re-assess where we're going. We have a system that does not produce what we need at international level. No more papering over the cracks, time to get the filler out with some bold selections with one eye on the future.
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I banged on about this a couple of years ago, we were winning without playing well. Whilst that occurred people were happy to ignore the problems because we still got results. However over time we were getting worse and worse and now we're seeing the results of that legacy.
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I banged on about this a couple of years ago, we were winning without playing well. Whilst that occurred people were happy to ignore the problems because we still got results. However over time we were getting worse and worse and now we're seeing the results of that legacy.
I agree. The batting "unit" hasn't functioned properly for three years. Their malaise has now spread to the bowlers who have been bailing us out for a long time. Now the bowling attack is misfiring we look like a side without a plan, without leadership and without any ideas.
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Bell should be binned. He is quietly failing. He is the epitome of a flat track bully. You can count on him to get you a big score when he comes in an England already have 250+ on the board, but other wise he will look very neat and tidy and get you a 30 before giving his wicket away.
Mentally weak, which is what could be said of a lot of the side.
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Bell should be binned. He is quietly failing. He is the epitome of a flat track bully. You can count on him to get you a big score when he comes in an England already have 250+ on the board, but other wise he will look very neat and tidy and get you a 30 before giving his wicket away.
Mentally weak, which is what could be said of a lot of the side.
I think that is really harsh on Bell. He has just enough credit remaining to ensure continued selection, however he does need a score and fast.
The Bell that you're referring to was the player representing England about 5 years ago. He's no flat track bully, without Bell's efforts with the bat we would not have won the Ashes last summer.
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I banged on about this a couple of years ago, we were winning without playing well. Whilst that occurred people were happy to ignore the problems because we still got results. However over time we were getting worse and worse and now we're seeing the results of that legacy.
The thing is, whilst you're winning you can give players time to find form, yes be aware that your captain in't scoring freely and we haven't replaced Strauss but it's not the time to be making big changes. What they did wrong was failing to plan for those dips in form turning in to permanent collapses (such as happened with Prior). The other thing that did for us was losing Swann. We had the best spinner in the world who was single-handedly removing the tail and breaking partnerships, him retiring after injuries clearly took their toll for the last 8-10months he played has broken our bowling unit and I'm not sure how we can go about repairing it.
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Bell should be binned. He is quietly failing. He is the epitome of a flat track bully. You can count on him to get you a big score when he comes in an England already have 250+ on the board, but other wise he will look very neat and tidy and get you a 30 before giving his wicket away.
Mentally weak, which is what could be said of a lot of the side.
I think that is really harsh on Bell. He has just enough credit remaining to ensure continued selection, however he does need a score and fast.
The Bell that you're referring to was the player representing England about 5 years ago. He's no flat track bully, without Bell's efforts with the bat we would not have won the Ashes last summer.
I agree, Bell had a bad ashes in the winter and hasn't really recovered but for 2-3 years before that he was consistently brilliant.
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Who do people see/reckon to be the old boys network amongst the side?
Cook, Prior, Anderson, Broad...?
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in my opinion I would go with:
1. Cook
2. Robson
3. Ballance
4. Bell
5 .Root
6. Ali
7. Buttler
8. Woakes
9. Jordan
10. Onions
11. Anderson
get Ballance bowling his leg breaks (as he did not look too shabby at Trent Bridge) to help Ali and Root in the spin department, get Woakes in and see what he can do, keep the top order,especially Cook as he needs to bat his way out of this horrendous run of form.
and FFS bowl a good length at the top of off stump !!
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get Ballance bowling his leg breaks (as he did not look too shabby at Trent Bridge) to help Ali and Root in the spin department,
That was a one off, I've seen Ballance play many times for Yorkshire but never seen him bowl a delivery!
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Who do people see/reckon to be the old boys network amongst the side?
Cook, Prior, Anderson, Broad...?
Yes and you could add Bresnan, Swann and Strauss to the list too. From the outside looking in that's half the side in a nice little clique. Neither Bell or Trott seemed to be part of it and the clique were all anti KP.
Even though several of the clique have retired, been dropped, stood down because of illness/injury it remains that it could not have been good for harmonious team relations.
This England squad is harder to get out of than get in to and it seems to me that several of them are resting on their laurels.
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With my Yorkshire hat on here I'm slightly baffled as to how Bresnan is part of any 'clique' within an England set up he's been in and out of over the years?
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With my Yorkshire hat on here I'm slightly baffled as to how Bresnan is part of any 'clique' within an England set up he's been in and out of over the years?
I think being part of the bowling attack grants automatic membership of the clique.
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Who do people see/reckon to be the old boys network amongst the side?
Cook, Prior, Anderson, Broad...?
I'd guess Broad is in the middle of all of this, I don't like him, I don't like him one bit.
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get Ballance bowling his leg breaks (as he did not look too shabby at Trent Bridge) to help Ali and Root in the spin department,
That was a one off, I've seen Ballance play many times for Yorkshire but never seen him bowl a delivery!
oh right, I thought he was an occasional bowler and I thought he caused the batsman all sorts of problems at Trent Bridge :)
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get Ballance bowling his leg breaks (as he did not look too shabby at Trent Bridge) to help Ali and Root in the spin department,
That was a one off, I've seen Ballance play many times for Yorkshire but never seen him bowl a delivery!
oh right, I thought he was an occasional bowler and I thought he caused the batsman all sorts of problems at Trent Bridge :)
I think he's a declaration bowler, not sure what that says about our spin bowling options though!
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Who do people see/reckon to be the old boys network amongst the side?
Cook, Prior, Anderson, Broad...?
I reckon that's probably about it, but I think a bigger problem is that Downton seems to have joined that since he took over. I want the best players playing for England not those who are popular with a few individuals. I think it's probably less of a problem now than it was, but there is still too much of Cook not putting his foot down with the senior bowlers and pulling them out of the attack if they're not performing.
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Don't think it's Broad - if we're talking about the whole KP fiasco.
By all accounts, he was against the decision to remove him from the squad.
In fairness to Cook, I believe he was one of the senior players who encouraged Strauss to get KP back in the fold after the textgate too. And did seem to be on his side until that infamous meeting after the third test in Australia.
But that pair, plus Anderson, Swann and Prior might have done for Compton.
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Am I alone in thinking Anderson gets away with a lot of poor performances? People still talk about him being one of the best seamers in the world but for me he doesn't perform well enough often enough. Getting the man of the match last test was a joke, to be fair he acknowledged that, but is symptomatic of him being seemingly above criticism.
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but....... he's Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy Anderson
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in my opinion I would go with:
1. Cook
2. Robson
3. Ballance
4. Bell
5 .Root
6. Ali
7. Buttler
8. Woakes
9. Jordan
10. Onions
11. Anderson
I don't think there are enough options around to make wholesale changes for the next test. Prior has already gone, so for me it's just a case of whether they feel that Buttler is ready. If they feel he's not, I'd rather save him until next year and bring someone like Read in as a stop gap for the next three tests.
I'd keep Cook in for the next test, but relieve him of the captaincy and give it to Bell. If he fails again, then I'd look at Carberry or Compton for the remainder of the series. Other than that, I would keep the same batting personnel but swap Bell and Root in the order.
If fit, I'd keep Anderson and Broad in, but they both need a few home truths told to them. Stokes is way off the pace at the moment and I'd replace him with Jordan, who was unlucky to be dropped in the first place. Seeing as there aren't too many other options around (we really need Finn to find some form) I'd probably keep Plunkett in, but he needs to be used better and would be the one to go if they feel it's going to turn and bring in Kerrigan. In the absence of another spinner, Ali needs to be used as a frontline bowler and not a part-timer.
Team to start on Sunday:
Cook (last chance)
Robson
Ballance
Root
Bell (C)
Ali
Buttler / Read
Broad
Jordan
Plunkett
Anderson
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We need to stay positive. There are some quality young players in team. Buttler coming in is a bonus. There was a time Sunday morning when we needed the spinners brought on. Cook should have made the call. Root will bowl 5 to 10 overs.
One thing who did Nick Compton fall out with? A wasted talent.
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Am I alone in thinking Anderson gets away with a lot of poor performances? People still talk about him being one of the best seamers in the world but for me he doesn't perform well enough often enough. Getting the man of the match last test was a joke, to be fair he acknowledged that, but is symptomatic of him being seemingly above criticism.
He's been good for us over the years, but for a while now he's only really been a threat if the ball is swinging. If it isn't, he tends to be pretty ineffective.
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Am I alone in thinking Anderson gets away with a lot of poor performances? People still talk about him being one of the best seamers in the world but for me he doesn't perform well enough often enough. Getting the man of the match last test was a joke, to be fair he acknowledged that, but is symptomatic of him being seemingly above criticism.
He's been good for us over the years, but for a while now he's only really been a threat if the ball is swinging. If it isn't, he tends to be pretty ineffective.
The last time I questioned him was before the 10/11 Ashes so I'm hoping it has the same effect!
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Jimmy has spells of being completely unplayable and those save him from the brunt of the criticism he deserves for the other spells where he's more concerned with keeping scoring down than with bowling to take wickets.
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We need to stay positive. There are some quality young players in team. Buttler coming in is a bonus. There was a time Sunday morning when we needed the spinners brought on. Cook should have made the call. Root will bowl 5 to 10 overs.
One thing who did Nick Compton fall out with? A wasted talent.
Ali is potentially a much better bowler than Root, but I agree the spinner should have been brought on on Sunday.
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Am I alone in thinking Anderson gets away with a lot of poor performances? People still talk about him being one of the best seamers in the world but for me he doesn't perform well enough often enough. Getting the man of the match last test was a joke, to be fair he acknowledged that, but is symptomatic of him being seemingly above criticism.
I agree to an extent. He's been bowling too short, but I also think that he's poorly managed. He should be bowled in short 4-5 over spells so that he can stay fresh, but Cook bowls him for 8-10 over spells and he becomes ineffective. He does need to attack more at times as well. He's worth his place in the side though.
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In 4 tests this summer, Anderson has taken 21 wickets at an average of 26.90.
Whilst I agree he's been nowhere near his best, he's still performed ok, especially considering the first 3 pitches were seam bowlers graveyards. Add to that the general poor fielding off his bowling so far this summer.
He let himself down on the first morning of the last test, as all the seamers did. He does need to get back to pitching the ball up, as he can swing it both ways and be pretty unplayable at times.
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The squad for the next test has been announced.
There's one change, Buttler for Prior.
Same old same old
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The squad for the next test has been announced.
There's one change, Buttler for Prior.
Same old same old
Yep, only change was one that was forced on them.
I guess Stokes has to come out of the team for either Jordan or Woakes
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Kerrigan has been left out the squad too.
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Yep it's hardly a surprise, there are too many players coasting in that team. The worst in terms of coasting at the moment is Bell and he needs to sort his form out. I personally think Stokes should drop out for Woakes and Jordan should come in for Broad. Broad really needs to get his injury sorted.
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Yep, I'd agree that this is wear Broad needs to be given a break. His pace has been down so far and he's obviously not right.
Maybe Woakes could be quite handy with the new ball in the right conditions?
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From the squad selected the team should be -
Cook
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Buttler
Woakes
Jordan
Plunkett
Anderson
Broad needs to go away and get his injury sorted, Stokes needs to go away and sort his batting out. Cook is clearly going to remain as captain as long as the series is alive.
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From the squad selected the team should be -
Cook
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Buttler
Woakes
Jordan
Plunkett
Anderson
Broad needs to go away and get his injury sorted, Stokes needs to go away and sort his batting out. Cook is clearly going to remain as captain as long as the series is alive.
Can't see that one happening PW, unless Broad's injury is too bad for him to play. Buttler in and Jordan for Stokes are the only changes I can see happening.
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No I don't think it'll happen but it should.
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I think it'll be Stokes for Woakes.
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Probably will but with his current form it shouldn't be. There's too much in this England set up of accepting below par displays.
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I still don't think Jordan should have been dropped in the first place and the performances and lack of fitness of Broad or Stokes mean he should be back in.
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You only have to go back a few years to the period where we continually allowed Flintoff to play through injuries.
I'm no medical expert but I would have thought that by continuing to play through an injury you risk making the injury considerably worse. Flintoff's career was cut short by playing on through injuries.
Broad isn't as vital to England as Flintoff was but he is an important member of the squad in all forms of the game. Take time out now and prolong his career.
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It's absolutely crazy when you consider that Broad hasn't had that great of an impact. Get him fit, because there's no point in continuing like this. Plus Jordan should be in the side anyway.
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Probably will but with his current form it shouldn't be. There's too much in this England set up of accepting below par displays.
Sounds familiar doesn't it. Could have been copied and pasted from the World Cup thread!!
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Will the next test be the first one to start on a Sunday ?
I can remember the odd Wednesday and Friday starts but not a Sunday before now.
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Jordan is bowling himself into the side as I write, unfortunately against The Bears.
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He should have been in the side in the first place.
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Caught a bit of the Middlesex v Surrey 20/20 on TV and it was good to see Steven Finn back in some sort of form. He was bowling quick and causing top players like Dilshan and KP real problems. Really hope he can fully overcome his problems and get back onto the international scene soon.
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Agreed he's a vital player to us.
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Interesting to see Trott have a good (first class) game too. Early days yet but maybe he can still have an involvement at some point.
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Won the toss and are batting.
Jordan and Woakes in for Plunkett and Stokes and obviously Buttler in for Prior.
Need some runs from the top order. C'mon England.
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The worst news of the series so far, Charles Dagnall has joined the TMS team.
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The worst news of the series so far, Charles Dagnall has joined the TMS team.
He has been on it most of the season.
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The worst news of the series so far, Charles Dagnall has joined the TMS team.
He has been on it most of the season.
Not for the Test matches, it's his first time.
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Cook and Robson have got the first 20overs out of the way, I think that's the first time we've got to 20 overs without loss in about 18months.
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Cook and Robson have got the first 20overs out of the way, I think that's the first time we've got to 20 overs without loss in about 18months.
And you jinxed it!
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I'm saying nothing more, importantly though the opening partnership did their job and saw off the new ball, even with Robson going shortly after it's a big improvement on the summer so far.
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The worst news of the series so far, Charles Dagnall has joined the TMS team.
He has been on it most of the season.
Not for the Test matches, it's his first time.
"Daggers" just does not have the voice to be a commentator.
Couldn't TMS have borrowed Simon Hughes from Channel 5 for a few stints? Vaughan & Boycott commentate for both.
I've only just turned on the Radio. Who's missing from today's TMS team ? I assume that there's no Blowers
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No Blowers or Swann, you're right about Dagnall, his voice is awful.
Delighted for Cook that he's still there, would love to see him go on and get a big hundred now.
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Swannie missing is not that much of a problem because it frees up a spot for Victor.
Its a golden era of TMS summarizers at the moment with Swannie, Tuffers, Victor and Sir Geoffrey.
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TMS scorer/statto Andrew Samson is a Red Sox fan. I know that I liked him.
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Full marks (as BFR would say) to Shane Warne for slipping in an Inspector Gadget reference to the commentary. "He used his go go Gadget arm there".
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What were those 80s bands that Warney was banging on about earlier?
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Sky are clearly trying to find the most embarrassing photos they can for their graphics. That one the just put up of Nasser is a classic.
Watching Sky whilst listening to TMS is definitely the way to go.
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Strauss aka Mr Potato Head looks about 14 in his pic
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Real shame for cook there, has done his job though, now we need Ballance to get his century and for Bell to have a bit of luck and get a score then we can let the lower order come out swinging tomorrow.
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Great innings by Balance. I like the calm authority of his batting
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247-2 at stumps. A productive day for England.
India were pretty nippy in the field. I don't remember the last time a day's play ended on time!
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I was there today and I thought Cook worked so hard and won back a lot of support, it was really disappointing when he got out but it was a huge innings today. Ballance was great as well and it was the best day we've had in a long time.
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I was there today and I thought Cook worked so hard and won back a lot of support, it was really disappointing when he got out but it was a huge innings today. Ballance was great as well and it was the best day we've had in a long time.
If have liked to see them take on the India part time bowlers a bit more and also be a bit more attacking against Jadeja.
India are a bowler short in this test and Singh was on debut, so 247 in a day is a bit short
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That pitch was doing a bit and the outfield was slow, it might have been a bit down but it wasn't a long way down. Cook was understandably a bit tentative, and I thought Singh was very good. I thought the reaction for Cook was as sympathetic as anything I've seen. The entire crowd was with him.
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You going any other days Paul........TMS were saying that they are not expecting many spectators for the next 4 days
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No sadly I'm off on holiday and have a few bits to sort or I would, it's a great ground for atmosphere but it's bizarre starting it on a Sunday.
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Superb from Cook, really wish he had got the ton to really stuff it down their throats, as it is they will merely gag a bit until his next poor score.
I don't want Cook as captain but I do want him as an opener, I just wish there was a credible candidate to take over. I reckon Cook knows there isn't too, and that's why he's soldiering on.
Brilliant today though.
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Joe Root will be captain soon.
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Superb from Cook, really wish he had got the ton to really stuff it down their throats, as it is they will merely gag a bit until his next poor score.
I don't want Cook as captain but I do want him as an opener, I just wish there was a credible candidate to take over. I reckon Cook knows there isn't too, and that's why he's soldiering on.
Brilliant today though.
Knowing how they are, they will simply shift attention on to Bell if he doesn't get a score. Totally agree with your commemts about his captaincy, as it would probably benefit him to concentrate solely on his batting going forward.
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I was there today and I thought Cook worked so hard and won back a lot of support, it was really disappointing when he got out but it was a huge innings today. Ballance was great as well and it was the best day we've had in a long time.
If have liked to see them take on the India part time bowlers a bit more and also be a bit more attacking against Jadeja.
India are a bowler short in this test and Singh was on debut, so 247 in a day is a bit short
India bowling a leg stump line to a packed leg side field stymied the scoring.
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I don't want to curse things, but it could be very interesting if Buttler comes in with 400 plus on the scoreboard and a free rein.
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This is good right now, we've got to 300 and now Ballance and Bell both look to be trying to escalate the scoring.
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Good ball to get Ballance that. Maybe of the back leg but still a top knacker.
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He also looked very guilty for someone who didn't hit it.
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Can't blame the umpire for that one. Must have only missed the bat by 15 inches or so!
Great innings though. He really does look the part.
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DRS raises its head yet again as far as the Indian's are concerned.
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DRS raises its head yet again as far as the Indian's are concerned.
Lack of DRS doesn't excuse a woeful decision though.
ICC are weak. They should just say "It's available to both sides, India can like it or lump it"
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He was miles away from it though, looked more confused than guilty for me. Terrible decision.
Really good session though, run rate up near 4 and Bell has looked very good.
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Dhoni is a cheat.
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It was a better shout for LBW than a catch! Dreadful decision.
Keep batting until we get 600 I say, grind them into the dirt!
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Dhoni is a cheat.
Why ?
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Al Murray on this lunchtime's VFTB has been very interesting
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Dhoni is a cheat.
Why ?
Claiming that catch off Ballance for a start.
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Al Murray on this lunchtime's VFTB has been very interesting
I can't listen to him, he's a bit of a diva is whatever his real name is.
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Excellent morning and we can really push the run rate on now. Ideally we'd get a few overs at them tonight,
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The umpiring in this series has been horrible.
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The umpiring in this series has been horrible.
Marais Erasmus gave one decision yesterday that had all the commentators going "he's got that wrong" only for the analysis to show that he'd got it right.
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I do think we really need to motor now, we're going to need as much time as possible in this match. I'm curious to see about Woakes' increased pace.
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Dhoni is a cheat.
Why ?
Claiming that catch off Ballance for a start.
If I had power over cricket, I'd remove all appealing. A player is either out or they're not, why should yelling about it make any difference?
If an umpire gave a player out (or did not give a player out) the captain of the fielding team or the batter involved would be permitted to calmly speak to the umpire and ask for a review.
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Well it does make for a better spectacle for the crowd for one thing, if no one appealed it would be really hard to follow what was going on in the crowd.
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Root needs to be careful here. He's becoming too placid in this innings.
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He's gone.
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Poor innings from Root. Allowed the bowlers to get on top of him early.
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Come on Moeen some quick runs please.
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Root looked like he wasn't sure what his role was, wasn't rotating the strike and wasn't trying to push the score along, I'd like to see Bell get his century and then start going after them here. This is a par score now so we can afford to start attacking the bowling.
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Yep it's Bell's responsibility to carry the run rate now.
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3 an over is okay. Still only half way through and we're getting to the point now where we shouldn't be looking to bat again. We should still be settling in and looking to still be batting come lunch tomorrow. Then we'll be 600 or so. No need to rush now. Just need to be calm now and don't rush because that's when 385-4 becomes 410-7.
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See I think it's a mentality issue as much as anything, I talked about this last summer as well when we were winning but our scoring rate was too slow. We need to up it now so that we put pressure on the Indian's, with the batting line up they have and the fact they're one up in the series they can afford to sit in. By scoring at 3.5 - 4 an over you really raise the pressure on the opposition.
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Ali is trying to up the impetus here.
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Not been paying much attention to this as I've been watching the Commonwealth Games. Is the pitch a carpet or have we just been batting well?
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Bell 100....well played Ian !!
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Batting well, the pitch is still doing a bit.
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Lovely six for Bell's hundred, good to see him and Cook performing in this game.
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Not been paying much attention to this as I've been watching the Commonwealth Games. Is the pitch a carpet or have we just been batting well?
It's not like Trent Bridge, the is something there for the bowlers. If India had held the early chance off Cook it may have been different.
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Great to see Bell get his ton. What a class way to reach your century.
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Bell 6-4-6! This is what we need, acceleration and putting Jadeja under pressure.
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Another 4!
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We needed that over. Bell should be able to really push on now.
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Ali's gone, so with Buttler in next we could see fireworks.
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Bell has also passed 7,000 test runs.
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That over was important, I understand the idea of batting to lunch tomorrow but that puts us in a position of needing to enforce the follow on and potentially bowl for 2 1/2 days without a break. Push for 500 a little after tea today and we have time to put in a session for the 2nd innings if needed.
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Well with Buttler in , bell looking like he's pinging everything off the middle 550 and declaring in the last hour isn't completely impossible.
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Ali slightly unfortunate there, he was clearly playing to force the pace.
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With Woakes, Jordan and Broad all to come, the scoring rate should only be going up now.
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That over was important, I understand the idea of batting to lunch tomorrow but that puts us in a position of needing to enforce the follow on and potentially bowl for 2 1/2 days without a break. Push for 500 a little after tea today and we have time to put in a session for the 2nd innings if needed.
Yeah Warne was saying as much, we should be looking at 500, bowling India out and then having another bat before setting a total so that the bowlers can rest.
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Yeah, not knowing the weather conditions, and seeing that we've had two bowler intense tests it makes more sense to give them some time to put their feet up.
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Definitely carried
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Buttler caught on 0 and got a bit of a let off on replay I think.
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Yeah, that was out. Still Balance wasn't so 1-1.
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That was just out
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Now he's off the mark.
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Why is this ground bloody half full? Edgbaston would be packed to the rafters.
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Why is this ground bloody half full? Edgbaston would be packed to the rafters.
Hampshire have been completely stitched up having a Test start on a Sunday.
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Why is this ground bloody half full? Edgbaston would be packed to the rafters.
Hampshire have been completely stitched up having a Test start on a Sunday.
Every ground has a test on a weekday though. There are not many test grounds in the area so I'm not accepting that playing on a Monday, in an area without much international cricket, equals today's poor attendance.
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Is Simon Mann covering the Commonwealth Games for the Beeb ?
I've just turned the radio off for the tea interval to avoid listening to Daggers
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Why is this ground bloody half full? Edgbaston would be packed to the rafters.
Hampshire have been completely stitched up having a Test start on a Sunday.
Every ground has a test on a weekday though. There are not many test grounds in the area so I'm not accepting that playing on a Monday, in an area without much international cricket, equals today's poor attendance.
Although I'm biased towards Edgbaston, I do agree with Paul. Monday is not a popular day for the corporate business who are much more likely to attend on a Thursday or Friday. A test starting on a Sunday in the second week of the school holidays was always going to attract a poor crowd.
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talking about the crowds and Sunday starts on TMS right now.....sounds like they have got a lot of kids activities for Monday, Tuesday etc
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Why is this ground bloody half full? Edgbaston would be packed to the rafters.
Hampshire have been completely stitched up having a Test start on a Sunday.
Every ground has a test on a weekday though. There are not many test grounds in the area so I'm not accepting that playing on a Monday, in an area without much international cricket, equals today's poor attendance.
Although I'm biased towards Edgbaston, I do agree with Paul. Monday is not a popular day for the corporate business who are much more likely to attend on a Thursday or Friday. A test starting on a Sunday in the second week of the school holidays was always going to attract a poor crowd.
Exactly it's one thing having Monday as the final day or Thursday and Friday as day 1 and day 2, but it's totally different having day 2 on a Monday. Hampshire have been stitched up here.
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Poor drop of Buttler there.
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Surprisingly subdued at the moment
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Excellent 150 from Bell.
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Buttler and Bell doing very well now, declaration should come soonish.
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It'd be good to have 10 overs at them tonight. there's 24 overs left so if we can push the scoreboard along at a pace and get up to around 560 then our bowlers should be raring to go.
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Buttler and Bell doing very well now, declaration should come soonish.
around 5pm or 5.15pm for a declaration, so they might get an hour at them tonight and a good kip and another go tomorrow morning......Buttler and Bell going well....
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First 50 to Buttler.
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The end of Bell, excellent innings though and needed from him.
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Come on Woaksey son. A quick 20 or so.
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Buttler is on for a century here.
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Well he was, but he's out but a great 85 from him.
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And that's why people have been calling for Buttler in the side, yes he got lucky with the one that was called short and the drop but 85 from 83 in an innings where we've passed par and are trying to set a target is exactly what we needed, great knock from him.
Great to see Bell in the runs as well, he's not looked out of form this summer, just short on luck, today he showed exactly why he's the best batsman in this side.
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It's been a really good innings for us, Cook getting runs was critical and almost equally Bell. Buttler showed exactly why he can be such a threat for us. It shows how brilliant Ballance has been that I just expect him to get runs now.
Now we have to attack with the ball.
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Anderson and Broad really need to stop having boundary runners in positions like this.
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Oh Cookie why don't we have a gully, come on attack.
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yeah, we should have 5-6 catchers in this afternoon, a cheap wicket tongiht is worth more than the handful of runs we lose by not having defensive fields.
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Indeed, Broad has started nicely though his pace is up and he has a short leg in as well.
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I'd be inclined to get Jordan on fairly quickly.
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Dhawan gone, great delivery Jimmy.
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This is the best I've seen Jimmy bowl in about a year.
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Good move from Cook to get Woakes on for the last over.
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England are bowling with good pace here, all of the bowlers between 85-90 mph.
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Another wicket would've been great but if we can keep bowling at this pace and keep a good line and length we'll get chances in the morning.
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Yep excellent day overall. Woakes has definitely put some pace on and really needs to take his chance, and really good to see Jimmy bowl well again. Ballance, Bell and Buttler were excellent.
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I thought we could have attacked more in the hour that we had at them after we declared. Five slips and a couple of gulleys would have put huge pressure on the Indian batsmen.
That said it was a good day for England, Bell batted beautifully.
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I thought we could have attacked more in the hour that we had at them after we declared. Five slips and a couple of gulleys would have put huge pressure on the Indian batsmen.
That said it was a good day for England, Bell batted beautifully.
Only slight negative was that Ali was undone by the short ball again. Time will tell I guess if it's a real problem. Small grumble though on what was a very good day for us.
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If I had power over cricket, I'd remove all appealing. A player is either out or they're not, why should yelling about it make any difference?
No no no no no and, for emphasis, NO!
The appeal is the very essence of cricket. You ask the umpire if the batsman is out, it is written in the very first laws of the great game.
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I'd be inclined to get Jordan on fairly quickly.
The Sky analysis of Jordan was interesting. Until they mentioned it, I'd not noticed how jerky his run up is.
Its not just the last couple of strides that are chopped (eg like Singh for India), the whole run up is stop/start.
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If Jordan could get a fluent run up I am sure it would add a few mph to his delivery and maybe make him a top class bowler instead of an above average one.
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I think his run up is the way it is because he's had back problems and it's a way of mitigating that.
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if we meddle with Jordan's run up we could ruin him as a bowler. We tried it with Finn and look where that left him. He's only just getting back to the bowler he was.
Leave Jordan well alone. If it ain't broke it don't need fixing.
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Why do we not have a short leg in?
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Not a great start so far.
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We needed that wicket
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We did, we could do with Broad going on a run now.
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Buttler looks like he's loving this. Great take there, first catch and 80 odd with an aggressive style. That sort of thing can become infectious in a side.
Really glad he's there.
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I really like Jordan, but he's been a bit wayward so far.
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I'm following the ball by ball text commentary on Cricinfo - it's like watching football on Ceefax - we seem to be leaking runs. Are we bowling badly again?
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We really need to tighten up here, we can't give Kohli such an easy start.
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good wicket to get, 2 fairly new batsmen in now.
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Nice one Broady!
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Yep Vijay is a bit wicket, saying that most of the Indians are. I'm really hoping Broad gets on a run now.
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Keep plugging away boys, they still need another 280 + to avoid the follow on.
Another couple before lunch will set us up nicely.
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Jordan bowling much better after drinks, a lot more control.
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Rahane should have been out, but umpire missed that it clipped the glove off Ali's bowling. The umpiring really has been poor.
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This series has been a great advert for DRS, the umpiring has been atrocious. That could have been a vital wicket for us. Cook should persevere with Ali.
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Rahane should have been out, but umpire missed that it clipped the glove off Ali's bowling. The umpiring really has been poor.
TMS said it would be difficult for the umpire to give it out, but they also said it was out ???
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great spell from Woakes there, he's had a couple go astray but generally he's been threatening and economical, hopefully he can keep it up and cement himself into the side doing the Bresnan role.
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Especially with his increased pace.
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Yep excellent control from Woakes with threat as well, comfortably the best spell he's bowled as an international cricketer. Ali bowled well as well and should have had the wicket. We need to keep it up after lunch now.
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Good stuff Jimmy - Kohli is an important scalp
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Important wicket just before tea, 210-5.
For a part time spinner Mo Ali now has 11 wickets in 5 tests.
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He has done ok for a part time spinner, the problem is this team really needs a top line one - to stop up one end while the quicks operate at the other/on a helpful wicket to get the opposition out.
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Moeen is doing a very good job, he's consistently picking up important wickets. People are very harsh on him, and if he gets bowled more he'll get results.
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Given that he hasn't bowled many overs for England really to have 12 wickets is very impressive.
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He looks at home in the test side. If he could eradicate his silly dismissals which seem to be a concentration issue then he will become an important player for us.
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New ball in 8 overs and 149 still needed to avoid the follow on.
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He looks at home in the test side. If he could eradicate his silly dismissals which seem to be a concentration issue then he will become an important player for us.
Agreed.
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Moeen is doing a very good job, he's consistently picking up important wickets. People are very harsh on him, and if he gets bowled more he'll get results.
No offence Paul but haven't you called for every player to be dropped at some stage over the summer!
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Ha ha maybe I've been hasty on some, but I've always backed Moeen!
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Jadeja dropped, but a really really tough chance.
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Keep the length full for Jadeja.
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Jimmy strikes, Jadeja gone. Now knock over the tail quickly please.
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Have bowled ok today, but I fear this disease we have of bowling pathetically at the tail is about to rear it's head once more
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It seems to be a moot point whether we'll enforce the follow on or not. The way we bowl to the lower order, it'll be a surprise if we have a lead more than 100
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That is why it was a timely declaration. Roll them up and bowl back to back, with the option of a swinging session and go again. Two ways to win the match available.
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I only saw the last 30 minutes and thought Jordan's radar was way off. At times he bowled sublime deliveries but the rest were poor. The last over of the day was exceptionally poor, he hardly made them play. Hopefully he can put it down to a bad day.
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I'm sure it was a bad day for Jordan. Excellent day for us, we really need to knock them over quickly tomorrow and score quick runs.
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Mo has done a good job because throwing in a Riley or a Kerrigan against Sri Lankan or Indian batsmen who play spin beautifully on pitches that don't really help a spinner are a recipe for disaster. The time to blood a 'proper' spinner is against the Windies.
Agree that he has to eradicate the getting started and getting himself out though!
And for your bears fans you get 60% of the fee the ECB pay for his development
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Big morning this we really need to knock them over within the first half hour and then bat and score quick. Ideally we want to set them 400 by mid afternoon and then declare.
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Big morning this we really need to knock them over within the first half hour and then bat and score quick. Ideally we want to set them 400 by mid afternoon and then declare.
agreed Paul, but as the pitch is playing well it might not be that easy shifting the tail-enders.....and we certainly will need 4 sessions to bowl them out a second time.
:)
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330 all out and Jimmy gets a 5-fer on his birthday.
The lead is 239, personally I'd enforce the follow on but I don't yet know what they're going to do.
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batting...need to score 200 or so very quickly and get them in just before tea with about 420/450 runs to win, and it gives us about 135/140 overs to bowl them out..
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Enforcing the follow on is rarely done now, its not just Cook & co being their normal ultra-cautious selves.
Taking just 15 minutes to wrap up the tail should mean that the bowlers are fresh enough to bowl again straight away but England are going to bat anyway.
There was an interesting period of commentary late yesterday with Victor discussing the change from the follow on almost always being enforced to now almost never being enforced.
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I'd have enforced the follow on but the general trend seems to be not to.
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I'd have opened with Buttler and Ballance and gone all T20 for a couple of hours.
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Enforcing the follow on is rarely done now, its not just Cook & co being their normal ultra-cautious selves.
Taking just 15 minutes to wrap up the tail should mean that the bowlers are fresh enough to bowl again straight away but England are going to bat anyway.
There was an interesting period of commentary late yesterday with Victor discussing the change from the follow on almost always being enforced to now almost never being enforced.
As recently as the 2010/2011 Ashes in Oz, we won a couple of tests by an innings so we were enforcing the follow on then.
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As recently as the 2010/2011 Ashes in Oz, we won a couple of tests by an innings so we were enforcing the follow on then.
In both of those games Australia batted first, got knocked over quickly and then England scored heavily, bowled the convicts out for a second time and did not need to bat again.
No follow on needed!
We, in fact, did it three times, not just two.
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As recently as the 2010/2011 Ashes in Oz, we won a couple of tests by an innings so we were enforcing the follow on then.
In both of those games Australia batted first, got knocked over quickly and then England scored heavily, bowled the convicts out for a second time and did not need to bat again.
No follow on needed!
We, in fact, did it three times, not just two.
I should really stop pretending that I know anything about this sport!
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As recently as the 2010/2011 Ashes in Oz, we won a couple of tests by an innings so we were enforcing the follow on then.
In both of those games Australia batted first, got knocked over quickly and then England scored heavily, bowled the convicts out for a second time and did not need to bat again.
No follow on needed!
We, in fact, did it three times, not just two.
I should really stop pretending that I know anything about this sport!
A great series for England....a bit of meat on the bones:
!st Test at Brisbane
England 260 & 517-1 Strauss 110 Cook 235* & Trott 135*
Australia 481 & 107-1
2nd Test Adelaide
Australia 245
England 620 5 Cook 148, KP 227
Australia 304
England win by innings and71 runs
3rd Test Perth
Australia 268 & 309
England 187 & 123
Australia won by 267 runs
4th Test Melbourne
Australia 98
England 513 Trott 168*
Australia 258
England win by innings and 157 runs
5th Test Sydney
Australia 280
England 644 Cook 189, Bell 115, Prior 118
Australia 281
England win by innings and 83 runs
A great series indeed
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I fail to see the logic of not enforcing the follow on and they meandering along at 2.5 runs an over. We need quick runs to enable us to declare around tea with a decent lead leaving 4 sessions to bowl them out.
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I fail to see the logic of not enforcing the follow on and they meandering along at 2.5 runs an over. We need quick runs to enable us to declare around tea with a decent lead leaving 4 sessions to bowl them out.
I agree, it made complete sense to not enforce the follow on but we need to up the run rate a lot now. Time is of the essence.
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Getting a move on now, this is much better.
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Ballance given out again when DRS would have saved him
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They're motoring now, Ballance is batting brilliantly.
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Jinxed him there, but he did his job.
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Ballance given out incorrectly twice in this match. But we're in an excellent position now, get another 80-100 runs quick and have them in before tea.
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Ballance on the end of yet another howler!
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I expect we will see Butler come in at 5.
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Starting to see why the Indian team don't like DRS, they back their batsmen to get the requisite runs but like the assistance of poor umpiring decisions in order to get 20 wickets
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I expect we will see Butler come in at 5.
no you won't........I'm at work until 6..
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I expect we will see Butler come in at 5.
no you won't........I'm at work until 6..
Love it...
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Buttler should be coming in next.
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Is Cook batting to win the game or to improve his own stats ?
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England showing a complete lack of flexibility with their batting lineup.
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For a bloke only in his late 30s, Daggers sounds a lot older.
Unfortunately with Blowers appearing at the Edinburgh Fringe, we're probably stuck with him for the rest of the series.
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After such a shitty run I don't mind Cook spending time in the middle as long as we are swinging at the other end.
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Yeah I agree, but I find it very odd that Buttler isn't in now.
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Perhaps they want Root to get some runs after his first innings 3. I would have sent in Buttler mind. Full on T20 style with ramp shots and all.
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Bring Root in makes no sense to me, 'm all for Cook keeping one end ticking over and letting the other end up the rate, but if you're going to do that and you have one of the best T20 finishers in the world in the changing room you really should be getting him on early, the ball is old enough now that it's a good time for a slogger as well.
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We need to get a shift on now.
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For a bloke only in his late 30s, Daggers sounds a lot older.
Unfortunately with Blowers appearing at the Edinburgh Fringe, we're probably stuck with him for the rest of the series.
He sounds really contrived to me. It's as if he wants to be a cross between Blowers, Johnners and Arlott. Quite awful my dear old thing.
Assuming Simon Mann is working on the Commonwealth Games, he should be back for the next test so we can drop Daggers.
Blowers doesn't cover every test anyway.
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I don't think we're need to rush too much. A lead of 400 should be enough. Get another 30 in 30 odd minutes and we will have enough runs, overs, and time to bowl India out.
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I don't understand the people commenting on the BBC criticising Cook for not enforcing the follow on. It makes much more sense for us to be batting now, but we need to get a move on.
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I'd have enforced the follow on but the general trend seems to be not to.
Genral trend is not to do so but only if there is lot of time left and your bowlers have been out there for about two sessions. Today conditions were ideal to enforce follow on. Bowlers were fresh and less than 2 days left. India would have struggled to make the difference and take any reasonable lead. However Cook is far too negative and defensive captain to do that. He will probably bat too long as well. It's shame but he has now given India an escape route.
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I don't understand the people commenting on the BBC criticising Cook for not enforcing the follow on. It makes much more sense for us to be batting now, but we need to get a move on.
A poor decision to bat on more akin to not losing rather than going for a win. He has given India a chance now to save the Test.
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I think the fear would be that they'd get a lead of 150 say, and on a turning last day track could cause us some problems. As it is only two results lookm on and one is still the most likely. If we declare half and hour before tea then have a crack at them. Tear in for 30 mins, have a break for tea, and then go at them again. 2 or 3 down tonight and we'll be unstoppable tomorrow.
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I don't understand the people commenting on the BBC criticising Cook for not enforcing the follow on. It makes much more sense for us to be batting now, but we need to get a move on.
A poor decision to bat on more akin to not losing rather than going for a win. He has given India a chance now to save the Test.
Not really, he's given us a much better chance of winning if he declares in time.
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It's absolutely the right decision to bat again, 100%. But we need to be declaring soon.
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Only want to give the bowlers a 30 minute burst. Batsman need an eye on the clock declaring now will give them too much time to play their natural game. Declare in about 20 minutes.
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I agree, I just pray Cook isn't playing for a century because I fear for him if he is.
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I don't understand the people commenting on the BBC criticising Cook for not enforcing the follow on. It makes much more sense for us to be batting now, but we need to get a move on.
A poor decision to bat on more akin to not losing rather than going for a win. He has given India a chance now to save the Test.
Either decision still gives India the opportunity to save the test, no one of them really increases India's chances because on both counts they have to bat for the best part of 120 overs.
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It is unlikely that India would have got 300 today batting again so the fear of England having to go in at say lunch time tomorrow needing 200 and being bowled out is bunk. Aggressive approach was to get them in again this morning but.....
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I would certainly declare now and give them a tricky 30 minutes before tea where Jimmy and co throw everything at them.
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Cook will not declare before 450.
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Thing with following on is that if we hadn't have made any in-roads with Anderson and Broad then it is risky hoping to win a test with Woakes, Jordan, and Ali. Give your front two as much of a break as possible because they could be doing a lot of work. A declarartion after tea should still give us roughly 115-120 overs to bowl India out with. Which should be more than enough.
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Not enforcing the follow is the right call in my opinion, any rest for the bowlers is valuable and also it confuses the minds of the opposition batsmen. It's hard to prepare when you don't know when the opposition are going to declare.
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A compromise would have been to bat again but do so in a far more attacking manner (ie my suggestion of opening with Buttler and Ballance). I still think that Cook might be doing what's best for Cook rather than doing what gives the best chance to win.
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I doubt that UK. If he fails he'll be piling even more criticism on top of what he's been getting. I think it's a fair call to have batted again. Now, it's just when they think it's right to declare. There is also an argument to be made for batting until tea.
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Thing is a Cook scoring runs is the right thing for England, but he needs to be careful not to push it too far.
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They will decalre after 45 overs.
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Not enforcing the follow is the right call in my opinion,
Not in every case. Follow on induces huge pressure on the batting side and has yielded wins for the enforcing sides in most cases. A few games have ended as draws and very very few, statistically negligible, have gone the other way. However enforcing follow on is the only chance and therefore a risk that the followers will turn it around. So not enforcing is a defensive strategy.
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can't declare now it would be an early tea.......
***so they now declare ::) after Root is out...India need 445 to win...
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Well I disagree, it was the right call in this instance. In any case we should be declaring now.
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Declared good stuff.
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Won't be tea this early.
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It's a good declaration as it gives us a burst before and after tea.
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Early tea!!! What the fu...
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That's really early, if it had been 15.30 fair enough but this is a really early tea.
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Still 40 overs for them to face tonight so we should whip a few of them out.
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can't declare now it would be an early tea.......
***so they now declare ::) after Root is out...India need 445 to win...
Doesn't make any difference to the time left in the game, they still have to face over 130 overs at the least.
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This should be a good test of overhyped Indian batting line up.
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This should be a good test of overhyped Indian batting line up.
Not sure about that. They've performed pretty well on this tour so far.
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For a part time bowler Ali has the happy knack of snaring wickets. 29-2
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blimey went off for a brew and two wickets are down.....put the kettle on !! :)
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great catch by Jordan
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Brilliant from Moeen and he should have had Dhawan, yet another awful umpiring decision. The umpiring has been atrocious in this series.
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Moeen is bowling really well, I'm convinced he'll develop into a very useful spinner. Good to see Cook starting to get some faith in him as well.
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Really good day again here, another wicket or 2 tonight and we go into the last day well on top.
Woakes deserves a wicket for his spell, 4-5 absolute jaffers that could've easily got him wickets, one that went across Dhawan and missed the edge by an inch was as good a delivery as there has been all match.
Jordan has looked a lot more with it in this spell as well, hopefully they both get some joy in this innings, Woakes especially, I think he's bowled really well with no luck so far.
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Third slip and Dhawan would be gone.
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Really good day again here, another wicket or 2 tonight and we go into the last day well on top.
Woakes deserves a wicket for his spell, 4-5 absolute jaffers that could've easily got him wickets, one that went across Dhawan and missed the edge by an inch was as good a delivery as there has been all match.
Jordan has looked a lot more with it in this spell as well, hopefully they both get some joy in this innings, Woakes especially, I think he's bowled really well with no luck so far.
Definitely agree on Woakes. Apart from adding a couple of mph, he looks physically stronger than he did against the Aussies last summer.
He deserves another chance in the 4th test regardless of how his figures stack up in this one.
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Good delivery from Root to get rid of Dhawan.
Root played a little gem of an innings earlier also.
I'll be amazed if he isn't made captain some time in the not too distant future.
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What this match has shown, is that when our senior players perform adequately, then we're a different proposition. Cook, Bell, Broad and Anderson all contributing the way they should be expected to.
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Root and Moeen strike again!
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Great stuff Moeen!!
Must admit, I've been very surprised how effective his bowling has been. Maybe a combination of Moeen being a better bowler than credited, and this Indian line up not quite being the masters of spin as portrayed.
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It's a funny old game. All the calls for Cook to be rested are resisted and he comes good with the bat and his bowling changes all see to produce results.
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They've been walking off for over a minute and it's only just turned 6:30. Poor umpiring again, should definitely have been another over
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Excellent day for England. Well done Cook & Co .......despite the wrong decision not to enforce follow on.
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Sorry Aftab but I disagree. Not enforcing the follow on killed any chance of India getting into the game. It also didn't take enough time out to hamper our chances of victory. The right call for me.
And well done England. An excellent days cricket.
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I thought they
Sorry Aftab but I disagree. Not enforcing the follow on killed any chance of India getting into the game. It also didn't take enough time out to hamper our chances of victory. The right call for me.
And well done England. An excellent days cricket.
I totally agree. Not only did they correctly not enforce the follow on but they did it at the perfect time for me. And then started bowling very well. I had a discussion with my dad on the phone and he said he wanted 4 wickets by the end of play. I told him that was a bit optimistic and I would take three.
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Yes agreed and so far it has worked out and I can not see India doing much tomorrow however I love follow on being enforced when conditions are right. It's one of the great traditions of cricket and infers total domination. I reckon the test would have been won today if India were made to bat again this morning.
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They've been walking off for over a minute and it's only just turned 6:30. Poor umpiring again, should definitely have been another over
England had bowled their quota of overs before 6.30.
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ah
They've been walking off for over a minute and it's only just turned 6:30. Poor umpiring again, should definitely have been another over
England had bowled their quota of overs before 6.30.
ah, probably should have paid attention then!
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Sorry Aftab but I disagree. Not enforcing the follow on killed any chance of India getting into the game. It also didn't take enough time out to hamper our chances of victory. The right call for me.
And well done England. An excellent days cricket.
Agree completely enforcing the follow on would have been completely the wrong decision. Ali was magnificent and bowled superbly.
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Cook's innings was good as well as he got important runs and allowed the other players to tee off. We just need to finish it off tomorrow.
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It's a funny old game. All the calls for Cook to be rested are resisted and he comes good with the bat and his bowling changes all see to produce results.
One test. I'm pleased for him but let's see if England can kick on now and win the series. The changes in the line up were long overdue.
I was quite happy England didn't enforce the follow on. I still remember Trent Bridge 2005 when England made Aussies follow on, they built a lead of 120 and England just about scraped to that with two wickets left.
Too much can go wrong so better to built an insurmountable lead and then have a day and a quarter to bowl India out.
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Good to see Jordan bowl much better this evening.
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Cook's innings was good as well as he got important runs and allowed the other players to tee off. We just need to finish it off tomorrow.
Just need to be patient tomorrow and take chances when they come. Feel a bit sorry for Hampshire as watching the review show on Sky, it looks like they have made a real effort and have been done a bit with crowds by the scheduling.
Changing tack a little, while we are on the subject of teeing off and looking a bit further forward to the World Cup in the winter, a top 7 of Hales, Bell, Balance, Root, Morgan, Bopara and Buttler could be interesting.
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Tests regularly are played on a Wednesday. I'm still struggling to find any reason to see why the public have not turned up. Shouldn't give them a test again.
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Tests regularly are played on a Wednesday. I'm still struggling to find any reason to see why the public have not turned up. Shouldn't give them a test again.
Starting on a sunday is really poor regardless of anything else, Thursday, Friday or at a push Saturday for me
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Tests regularly are played on a Wednesday. I'm still struggling to find any reason to see why the public have not turned up. Shouldn't give them a test again.
You're a hard man Peter!! As I said above, the piece they did on the review show tonight showed that they had put a real effort into hosting the test (offering free coaching and activities for kids on the grounds etc) and seemed a bit disappointed with the scheduling. The crowd today looked very sparse.
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Its not Hampshire's fault that the crowds have been small.
If the ECB had to have a midweek test against India, it should have been in London (I suggest the extra match that Lord's now has due to the seven test summer) or maybe at Edgbaston
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I understand that it's not ideal and you can't fault Hampshire for their efforts.
But that still does not explain why poeple are not turning up on 1) A Sunday when every test is played on a Sunday 2) A Wednesday - middle of the week. No excuse for the sparse crowd.
Maybe the ECB have had them over a bnarrel with the scheduling but the Hants crowd have really let the County down. Why should the ECB bring a test there again if they don't come out and support England? Especially as they don't see tests down there?
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ECB have no problem (other than a nearly empty ground looks bad) as they have already extorted about £2M(?) from the County for "awarding" them a Test match. It's Hamps who are left with a problem to breakeven!
Lucky for them that Cooky didn't enforce the follow on and they have 5th days revenue to help!
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I understand that it's not ideal and you can't fault Hampshire for their efforts.
But that still does not explain why poeple are not turning up on 1) A Sunday when every test is played on a Sunday 2) A Wednesday - middle of the week. No excuse for the sparse crowd.
Maybe the ECB have had them over a bnarrel with the scheduling but the Hants crowd have really let the County down. Why should the ECB bring a test there again if they don't come out and support England? Especially as they don't see tests down there?
The bidding process for the next group of test matches is about to start. I reckon Hampshire will get more tests because Bransgrove is a shrewd operator and well respected within the ECB.
It would have made more sense for tests to be played in areas where Indian supporters will attend. A full Edgbaston or Headingley swells the ECB's coffers much more than a half empty Rose Bowl.
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Daggers is already in full local-radio drive time mode today with the way he says "here's an email from..............."
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Great start this morning by Jimmy
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blimey went off for a brew and two wickets are down.....put the kettle on !! :)
just been for a tea break and another two !!! "as Bumble would say....Start the tea trolley
:)
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And the legend in the making that is Moeen Ali gets another!
152-7
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And another!!
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He's got 4-50 so far. A remarkable return.
I'd love him to get a 5-fer
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There are a fair few positives from this series (and some real downers) but potentially the best thing is Moeen Ali suddenly discovering that he's a Test bowler as well as an outstanding batsman.
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Brilliant from Moeen showing he's getting better and better.
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If he can remedy his issue with the short ball (just duck, they'll soon get bored) then he will be a fine player.
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Come on England slow down as there are kids in the ground who have come to see a full day of cricket!
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He's got his 5-fer!!
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Brilliant from Moeen showing he's getting better and better.
Needs to stay level headed and greatness will follow. Could do with more runs in the final two tests.
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Moeen is going to be a quality player. He already has a century and he's bowling India out in the final innings. He's shown he can do it in both aspects of the game. This has been a great Test match for us, lots of excellent performances.
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Just watch, there'll be a 291 run last wicket stand now.
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It's only the 6th time that an English spinner has taken a 5-fer in the 4th innings of a home test in 45 years.
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And Ali cleans them up with a 6-fer!!
First win in 10 tests.
Get in!!!
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will the 'part-timer' tag bew put away now or does he get stuck with that until he gets 100wickets? 18 wickets in 5 matches now so it probably won't take that long to get the latter.
Gutted for Woakes that he didn't get a wicket, his figures in the 2nd innings are conclusive that he can definitely do the Bresnan containing role from one end, and with a bit more luck he could've had a few wickets as well.
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will the 'part-timer' tag bew put away now or does he get stuck with that until he gets 100wickets? 18 wickets in 5 matches now so it probably won't take that long to get the latter.
Gutted for Woakes that he didn't get a wicket, his figures in the 2nd innings are conclusive that he can definitely do the Bresnan containing role from one end, and with a bit more luck he could've had a few wickets as well.
It puts a question mark over Jordan's place. He bowled some real dross in the 1st innings and didn't get a bowl today.
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I hope not, Jordan was dropped after doing well against sri lanka and the pressure to perform seems to have got to him. I'd leave the team unchanged unless we're forced to replace Jimmy. If we have to replace Jimmy it'll be a difficult decision who to go with, but they've at least given Woakes some time with the new ball, so I guess Woakes and Broad would open.
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Good performance from the team from the first session. Everyone played their part. Jordan bowled disappointingly first up but had more control yesterday and his slip catching is top notch. Buttler played well and should enjoy the success. Another day and he would have been out for a duck and the result could have been different. But, he wasn't and he made the most of it. Nothing to do with luck as Gary Ballance had none and still weighed in with 200 odd runs.
Good performance, good captaincy, and hopefully we will push on from here and win 3-1 as we lost because we were poor and not because of India. I also think that as the better team, and seeing such a crushing defeat that this was India will get nowhere near us in the next test.
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Moeeen, Moeeen, Moeen, Moeeeeeeeeen !
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Missed todays play. Was it genuinely good spin bowling from Moeen or just rank batting from India?
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Excellent performance throughout. Senior players have finally contributed and we were a different team for it.
I think we can write off Anderson for the next test. The BCCI treat the ICC as their little plaything and I don't think Jimmy being innocent or guilty will play any part in the decision.
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I hope not, Jordan was dropped after doing well against sri lanka and the pressure to perform seems to have got to him. I'd leave the team unchanged unless we're forced to replace Jimmy. If we have to replace Jimmy it'll be a difficult decision who to go with, but they've at least given Woakes some time with the new ball, so I guess Woakes and Broad would open.
If they throw the book at Jimmy and give him a 4 test ban, his next test match would be the 3rd test in April 2015 against the West Indies. That's a hell of a break from test cricket.
India want blood, their influence within the ICC concerns me. Hopefully Jimmy will escape with a rap across the knuckles.
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Missed todays play. Was it genuinely good spin bowling from Moeen or just rank batting from India?
Bit of both, he wasn't spinning it prodigiously but he was getting a bit of turn and the Indian batsmen seemed to be playing for no turn at all.
But he is willing to toss it up and is adding variety all the time, he's going to be a very good all rounder is our Moeen.
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A shame that Woakes couldn't pick up a wicket. He has been very, very unlucky as I thought he had bowled generally very good lines and lengths.
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Good performance from the team from the first session. Everyone played their part. Jordan bowled disappointingly first up but had more control yesterday and his slip catching is top notch. Buttler played well and should enjoy the success. Another day and he would have been out for a duck and the result could have been different. But, he wasn't and he made the most of it. Nothing to do with luck as Gary Ballance had none and still weighed in with 200 odd runs.
Good performance, good captaincy, and hopefully we will push on from here and win 3-1 as we lost because we were poor and not because of India. I also think that as the better team, and seeing such a crushing defeat that this was India will get nowhere near us in the next test.
They showed glimpses of falling apart in this test. If we bat first in the next test and can put a big score on them, we might well see them capitulate the way they did the last time they were here.
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that's the annoying thing. they have shown the same amount of mettle as last time and have a poorer team. that it is 1-1 after 3 tests shows how badly we've performed until this test.
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I hope not, Jordan was dropped after doing well against sri lanka and the pressure to perform seems to have got to him. I'd leave the team unchanged unless we're forced to replace Jimmy. If we have to replace Jimmy it'll be a difficult decision who to go with, but they've at least given Woakes some time with the new ball, so I guess Woakes and Broad would open.
Not Jordan is quite ready for tests just yet and is probably more suited to ODIs at this point. Saying that, it would be pretty harsh to drop him again. Shane Warne said in commentary that he would look to bring Finn back in for the next test, but I guess that depends on how ready he is. If Jimmy is out, then Onions is probably the closest thing we have in terms of being able to swing the ball, but again there are fitness doubts about him.
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that's the annoying thing. they have shown the same amount of mettle as last time and have a poorer team. that it is 1-1 after 3 tests shows how badly we've performed until this test.
Think this one might be a turning point Peter. With a bit of confidence, the batting line up is really beginning to show some promise. Robson is struggling a bit, but there are ready made repacements in Carberry and Compton waiting in the wings should the selectors feel the need for a change. Amongst other things, this test has shown how heavily we still rely on the form of Broad and Anderson and the need for a wicket taking spinner.
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I hope not, Jordan was dropped after doing well against sri lanka and the pressure to perform seems to have got to him. I'd leave the team unchanged unless we're forced to replace Jimmy. If we have to replace Jimmy it'll be a difficult decision who to go with, but they've at least given Woakes some time with the new ball, so I guess Woakes and Broad would open.
Not Jordan is quite ready for tests just yet and is probably more suited to ODIs at this point. Saying that, it would be pretty harsh to drop him again. Shane Warne said in commentary that he would look to bring Finn back in for the next test, but I guess that depends on how ready he is. If Jimmy is out, then Onions is probably the closest thing we have in terms of being able to swing the ball, but again there are fitness doubts about him.
Same squad has been announced so given that it contains 2 bowling options I can't see another bowler coming in. If we do lose Jimmy I expect to see Plunkett back , meaning the only selection question is between Jordan and Stokes. Personally I would give Jordan another chance, in the first innings he looked like he was trying to find the perfect delivery and he lost his line.
If Jimmy is out I think Woakes will take the new ball with Broad, he hasn't got the wickets yet but at times he was unplayable and just didn't get the edges he deserved.
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Jimmy has been found not guilty which is the best news I've heard all day.
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Jimmy has been found not guilty which is the best news I've heard all day.
yep, great news.
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Great news regarding Jimmy.
I'm surprised though. India tend to get their way where the ICC is concerned. Anderson must have been so not guilty that it was impossible for the ICC to overlook.
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Great news regarding Jimmy.
I'm surprised though. India tend to get their way where the ICC is concerned. Anderson must have been so not guilty that it was impossible for the ICC to overlook.
This is pure guesswork on my part:
There was sufficient evidence that Jimmy pushed him but it was after Jadeja got right in his face in a very aggressive way
If that's true both would have to be banned, Jadeja has been one of India's best players and they can't afford to lose him if they want to stand a chance in the series so both cases were dismissed.
If India had any say in the decision I'd guess it went that way.
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I hope not, Jordan was dropped after doing well against sri lanka and the pressure to perform seems to have got to him. I'd leave the team unchanged unless we're forced to replace Jimmy. If we have to replace Jimmy it'll be a difficult decision who to go with, but they've at least given Woakes some time with the new ball, so I guess Woakes and Broad would open.
Not Jordan is quite ready for tests just yet and is probably more suited to ODIs at this point. Saying that, it would be pretty harsh to drop him again. Shane Warne said in commentary that he would look to bring Finn back in for the next test, but I guess that depends on how ready he is. If Jimmy is out, then Onions is probably the closest thing we have in terms of being able to swing the ball, but again there are fitness doubts about him.
Same squad has been announced so given that it contains 2 bowling options I can't see another bowler coming in. If we do lose Jimmy I expect to see Plunkett back , meaning the only selection question is between Jordan and Stokes. Personally I would give Jordan another chance, in the first innings he looked like he was trying to find the perfect delivery and he lost his line.
If Jimmy is out I think Woakes will take the new ball with Broad, he hasn't got the wickets yet but at times he was unplayable and just didn't get the edges he deserved.
On reflection, I would too and would go with an unchanged side for the next test. Jordan is bound to be fired up and wanting to do well.
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I think Plunkett will most likely come back in for Old Trafford, in place of Jordan.
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I think Plunkett will most likely come back in for Old Trafford, in place of Jordan.
Watching the Cricket Writers Show and the T20, that was certainly the opinion of most of the pundits. With Finn being called in to replaced Plunkett, I wonder if the change will still happen. Paul Allott said that the pitch at Old Trafford was likely to have a bit of extra bounce and carry, so we could well see Finn back in the starting XI in place of Jordan.
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I think Plunkett will most likely come back in for Old Trafford, in place of Jordan.
Watching the Cricket Writers Show and the T20, that was certainly the opinion of most of the pundits. With Finn being called in to replaced Plunkett, I wonder if the change will still happen. Paul Allott said that the pitch at Old Trafford was likely to have a bit of extra bounce and carry, so we could well see Finn back in the starting XI in place of Jordan.
I hope Finn doesn't get back in the starting xi yet. I fear it may still be a bit to early for him.
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Dunno. As the fourth seamer in an attack which is firing and confident I reckon this is the perfect time for him to come back. If not now, when?
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Sometimes it's hard to not hate the indian cricket board:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/28658463
So basically "we're not allowed to appeal the decision to not ban Jimmy so we're going to sulk to the man who can and make sure the whole world knows that we're sulking by making a press release about it".
With this kind of behaviour and the DRS stance I'd love the ICC to tell them to piss off until they stop acting like spoilt little kids.
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Sometimes it's hard to not hate the indian cricket board:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/28658463
So basically "we're not allowed to appeal the decision to not ban Jimmy so we're going to sulk to the man who can and make sure the whole world knows that we're sulking by making a press release about it".
With this kind of behaviour and the DRS stance I'd love the ICC to tell them to piss off until they stop acting like spoilt little kids.
I'd like to see that happen but think that given the power that the BCCI hold within the ICC it's highly unlikely to happen.
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Dunno. As the fourth seamer in an attack which is firing and confident I reckon this is the perfect time for him to come back. If not now, when?
I don't think he is in such good form that he warrants a comeback yet, he is averaging only slightly under 30 and his economy rate is roughly 4rpo. I'd like him to get his confidence sky high and get him really chomping at the bit for a recall.
As it turns out he hasn't been selected and Jordan has kept his place.
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Dunno. As the fourth seamer in an attack which is firing and confident I reckon this is the perfect time for him to come back. If not now, when?
I don't think he is in such good form that he warrants a comeback yet, he is averaging only slightly under 30 and his economy rate is roughly 4rpo. I'd like him to get his confidence sky high and get him really chomping at the bit for a recall.
As it turns out he hasn't been selected and Jordan has kept his place.
which is the correct decision.
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Hales made a century for England Lions today. Surely the argument against picking him for the 50 over side is now redundant?
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Dunno. As the fourth seamer in an attack which is firing and confident I reckon this is the perfect time for him to come back. If not now, when?
I don't think he is in such good form that he warrants a comeback yet, he is averaging only slightly under 30 and his economy rate is roughly 4rpo. I'd like him to get his confidence sky high and get him really chomping at the bit for a recall.
As it turns out he hasn't been selected and Jordan has kept his place.
which is the correct decision.
Wouldn't have minded either decision, but an unchanged team makes sense. Jordan needs some wickets though, neither he nor Woakes got wickets last time but it was obvious who was in rhythm and bowling better.
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Dunno. As the fourth seamer in an attack which is firing and confident I reckon this is the perfect time for him to come back. If not now, when?
I don't think he is in such good form that he warrants a comeback yet, he is averaging only slightly under 30 and his economy rate is roughly 4rpo. I'd like him to get his confidence sky high and get him really chomping at the bit for a recall.
As it turns out he hasn't been selected and Jordan has kept his place.
which is the correct decision.
We'll see I guess. Not sure I can see the logic in calling up someone who has recently suffered an awful crisis of confidence and then leaving them out.
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Hales made a century for England Lions today. Surely the argument against picking him for the 50 over side is now redundant?
Would have him opening with Bell in the ODI side, though Vince and Roy must also be in with a shout.
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I think Plunkett will most likely come back in for Old Trafford, in place of Jordan.
Watching the Cricket Writers Show and the T20, that was certainly the opinion of most of the pundits. With Finn being called in to replaced Plunkett, I wonder if the change will still happen. Paul Allott said that the pitch at Old Trafford was likely to have a bit of extra bounce and carry, so we could well see Finn back in the starting XI in place of Jordan.
I enjoy watching that programme, especially when Vic Marks or Steve "Pedro" James* are on.
(* Pedro was the best player I ever played Cricket with AND the best player I ever played Rugby with)
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Raining in Manchester - which is surprising - so the toss is delayed. The forecast for the next five days is pretty bad so I think a draw is on the cards.
Fecking Manchester sunshine.
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England have lost the toss and india are betting, start 11:30 so with the extra half hour all being well will get a full days play.
England no change
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India have left out Dhawan, Rohit Sharma and Shami and brought in Gambhir, Ashwin & Aaron
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Gambhir didn't last long ct by Root off Broad his 256th wkt, gone above Swanny.
8-1
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8-2 Murali Vijay ct Cook b Anderson 0
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Three down
Great toss to lose
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8-3 kohli ct cook b Anderson 0
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8-3 take that India.
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What a wonderful start!
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8-4.
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There's number four
"Are you England in disguise.................... Are you England in disguise"
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Anderson is trying to decapitate Dhoni!
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Anderson is trying to decapitate Dhoni!
Good!
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Alison Mitchell commentating.
Hopefully that means no Daggers for this test
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Wicket for Jordan at last, and deserved.
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Jimmy looked pretty pleased to get Jadeja.
He now needs 10 more to over take Sir Beefy.
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For the guys watching this, is it the pitch or the bowling?
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Bowling and the weather
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It's the bowling, full and swinging.
Yes the conditions are right for it but how many times have we thought that the conditions would be right and we have ended up bowling pies at batsmen?
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We've done really well but we need to make sure we don't let it slip here.
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Sunil's cake countdown has ended as his alarm goes off
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We've done really well but we need to make sure we don't let it slip here.
I think our 3rd and 4th seamers are a worry. We can't rely on Anderson and Broad to continually bowl sides out. Woakes and Jordan aren't doing it for me.
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We've done really well but we need to make sure we don't let it slip here.
I think our 3rd and 4th seamers are a worry. We can't rely on Anderson and Broad to continually bowl sides out. Woakes and Jordan aren't doing it for me.
I'd stick with them for now, we need to rotate between those 2, Finn and Stokes, I want them all to have 10-15test under their belts before we have to face up to losing Jimmy, we've got 2-3 years more of him in all likelihood, we really can't afford to not have some experienced bowlers to turn to at that point. Look at the state of our spinning options after 5-6years of relying on Swann and giving Monty an odd game before casting him off completely.
I like all 4 of them and think they can all make it as international quicks but they need to measure themselves against the best and then go away and respond.
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This scorecard is fantastic, Dhoni has rescued them from an utter humiliation, that row of ducks (5 of them!) is pretty horrific.
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We've done really well but we need to make sure we don't let it slip here.
I think our 3rd and 4th seamers are a worry. We can't rely on Anderson and Broad to continually bowl sides out. Woakes and Jordan aren't doing it for me.
I'd stick with them for now, we need to rotate between those 2, Finn and Stokes, I want them all to have 10-15test under their belts before we have to face up to losing Jimmy, we've got 2-3 years more of him in all likelihood, we really can't afford to not have some experienced bowlers to turn to at that point. Look at the state of our spinning options after 5-6years of relying on Swann and giving Monty an odd game before casting him off completely.
I like all 4 of them and think they can all make it as international quicks but they need to measure themselves against the best and then go away and respond.
Your suggestion of rotation/development is a good one. I'm concerned Woakes in particular isn't good enough. It's one thing to stick by them and rotate them but if they're not quite good enough in the first place then what's the point?
As an example, with India 152 all out, between them Woakes and Jordan had bowled 19-5-70-1 whereas Jimmy & Broad bowled 27.4-9-71-9. I do think that Jordan will come good but against better opposition our attack is weakened.
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We've done really well but we need to make sure we don't let it slip here.
I think our 3rd and 4th seamers are a worry. We can't rely on Anderson and Broad to continually bowl sides out. Woakes and Jordan aren't doing it for me.
I'd stick with them for now, we need to rotate between those 2, Finn and Stokes, I want them all to have 10-15test under their belts before we have to face up to losing Jimmy, we've got 2-3 years more of him in all likelihood, we really can't afford to not have some experienced bowlers to turn to at that point. Look at the state of our spinning options after 5-6years of relying on Swann and giving Monty an odd game before casting him off completely.
I like all 4 of them and think they can all make it as international quicks but they need to measure themselves against the best and then go away and respond.
Your suggestion of rotation/development is a good one. I'm concerned Woakes in particular isn't good enough. It's one thing to stick by them and rotate them but if they're not quite good enough in the first place then what's the point?
As an example, with India 152 all out, between them Woakes and Jordan had bowled 19-5-70-1 whereas Jimmy & Broad bowled 27.4-9-71-9. I do think that Jordan will come good but against better opposition our attack is weakened.
Woakes needs a wicket, in the last game he deserved a couple and bowled a couple of great spells but that first wicket is a big deal and the longer it goes the more tense he'll become. I think there's a very good bowler in there though. He gets nice swing and seam movement but is a bit let down by some inconsistency in his line, if he fixes that he can, at worst, become a great 4th seamer to lock down one end with a long spell and let the others rotate from the other.
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And there's a 6th little duck, which equals the record, brilliant day for Broad who generally does well at old trafford.
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We've done really well but we need to make sure we don't let it slip here.
I think our 3rd and 4th seamers are a worry. We can't rely on Anderson and Broad to continually bowl sides out. Woakes and Jordan aren't doing it for me.
I'd stick with them for now, we need to rotate between those 2, Finn and Stokes, I want them all to have 10-15test under their belts before we have to face up to losing Jimmy, we've got 2-3 years more of him in all likelihood, we really can't afford to not have some experienced bowlers to turn to at that point. Look at the state of our spinning options after 5-6years of relying on Swann and giving Monty an odd game before casting him off completely.
I like all 4 of them and think they can all make it as international quicks but they need to measure themselves against the best and then go away and respond.
Your suggestion of rotation/development is a good one. I'm concerned Woakes in particular isn't good enough. It's one thing to stick by them and rotate them but if they're not quite good enough in the first place then what's the point?
As an example, with India 152 all out, between them Woakes and Jordan had bowled 19-5-70-1 whereas Jimmy & Broad bowled 27.4-9-71-9. I do think that Jordan will come good but against better opposition our attack is weakened.
Woakes needs a wicket, in the last game he deserved a couple and bowled a couple of great spells but that first wicket is a big deal and the longer it goes the more tense he'll become. I think there's a very good bowler in there though. He gets nice swing and seam movement but is a bit let down by some inconsistency in his line, if he fixes that he can, at worst, become a great 4th seamer to lock down one end with a long spell and let the others rotate from the other.
He has taken a test wicket, he got his first in the 5th Ashes test last summer. I'd rather see Bresnan in the side ahead of Woakes.
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We've done really well but we need to make sure we don't let it slip here.
I think our 3rd and 4th seamers are a worry. We can't rely on Anderson and Broad to continually bowl sides out. Woakes and Jordan aren't doing it for me.
I'd stick with them for now, we need to rotate between those 2, Finn and Stokes, I want them all to have 10-15test under their belts before we have to face up to losing Jimmy, we've got 2-3 years more of him in all likelihood, we really can't afford to not have some experienced bowlers to turn to at that point. Look at the state of our spinning options after 5-6years of relying on Swann and giving Monty an odd game before casting him off completely.
I like all 4 of them and think they can all make it as international quicks but they need to measure themselves against the best and then go away and respond.
Your suggestion of rotation/development is a good one. I'm concerned Woakes in particular isn't good enough. It's one thing to stick by them and rotate them but if they're not quite good enough in the first place then what's the point?
As an example, with India 152 all out, between them Woakes and Jordan had bowled 19-5-70-1 whereas Jimmy & Broad bowled 27.4-9-71-9. I do think that Jordan will come good but against better opposition our attack is weakened.
Woakes needs a wicket, in the last game he deserved a couple and bowled a couple of great spells but that first wicket is a big deal and the longer it goes the more tense he'll become. I think there's a very good bowler in there though. He gets nice swing and seam movement but is a bit let down by some inconsistency in his line, if he fixes that he can, at worst, become a great 4th seamer to lock down one end with a long spell and let the others rotate from the other.
He has taken a test wicket, he got his first in the 5th Ashes test last summer. I'd rather see Bresnan in the side ahead of Woakes.
Oops, I missed that. The point still stands to an extent though. He was dumped after that game and ignored for a year so there's a lot of pressure on him.
He'll be a long term replacement for bresnan.
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We've done really well but we need to make sure we don't let it slip here.
I think our 3rd and 4th seamers are a worry. We can't rely on Anderson and Broad to continually bowl sides out. Woakes and Jordan aren't doing it for me.
I'd stick with them for now, we need to rotate between those 2, Finn and Stokes, I want them all to have 10-15test under their belts before we have to face up to losing Jimmy, we've got 2-3 years more of him in all likelihood, we really can't afford to not have some experienced bowlers to turn to at that point. Look at the state of our spinning options after 5-6years of relying on Swann and giving Monty an odd game before casting him off completely.
I like all 4 of them and think they can all make it as international quicks but they need to measure themselves against the best and then go away and respond.
Your suggestion of rotation/development is a good one. I'm concerned Woakes in particular isn't good enough. It's one thing to stick by them and rotate them but if they're not quite good enough in the first place then what's the point?
As an example, with India 152 all out, between them Woakes and Jordan had bowled 19-5-70-1 whereas Jimmy & Broad bowled 27.4-9-71-9. I do think that Jordan will come good but against better opposition our attack is weakened.
Woakes needs a wicket, in the last game he deserved a couple and bowled a couple of great spells but that first wicket is a big deal and the longer it goes the more tense he'll become. I think there's a very good bowler in there though. He gets nice swing and seam movement but is a bit let down by some inconsistency in his line, if he fixes that he can, at worst, become a great 4th seamer to lock down one end with a long spell and let the others rotate from the other.
He has taken a test wicket, he got his first in the 5th Ashes test last summer. I'd rather see Bresnan in the side ahead of Woakes.
Correct James Faulkner Ct Trott b Woakes 23
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We've done really well but we need to make sure we don't let it slip here.
I think our 3rd and 4th seamers are a worry. We can't rely on Anderson and Broad to continually bowl sides out. Woakes and Jordan aren't doing it for me.
I'd stick with them for now, we need to rotate between those 2, Finn and Stokes, I want them all to have 10-15test under their belts before we have to face up to losing Jimmy, we've got 2-3 years more of him in all likelihood, we really can't afford to not have some experienced bowlers to turn to at that point. Look at the state of our spinning options after 5-6years of relying on Swann and giving Monty an odd game before casting him off completely.
I like all 4 of them and think they can all make it as international quicks but they need to measure themselves against the best and then go away and respond.
Your suggestion of rotation/development is a good one. I'm concerned Woakes in particular isn't good enough. It's one thing to stick by them and rotate them but if they're not quite good enough in the first place then what's the point?
As an example, with India 152 all out, between them Woakes and Jordan had bowled 19-5-70-1 whereas Jimmy & Broad bowled 27.4-9-71-9. I do think that Jordan will come good but against better opposition our attack is weakened.
Woakes needs a wicket, in the last game he deserved a couple and bowled a couple of great spells but that first wicket is a big deal and the longer it goes the more tense he'll become. I think there's a very good bowler in there though. He gets nice swing and seam movement but is a bit let down by some inconsistency in his line, if he fixes that he can, at worst, become a great 4th seamer to lock down one end with a long spell and let the others rotate from the other.
He has taken a test wicket, he got his first in the 5th Ashes test last summer. I'd rather see Bresnan in the side ahead of Woakes.
Oops, I missed that. The point still stands to an extent though. He was dumped after that game and ignored for a year so there's a lot of pressure on him.
He'll be a long term replacement for bresnan.
I wasn't sure how old Woakes was, I was surprised to discover that he's 25. I thought he was about 22.
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Great stuff from England. Let's hope we can take our chance and put the game beyond India in our first innings.
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It's an important session for England coming up. The bowlers have carried their form from the last test into this one, we need the batsmen to do the same.
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I'm beginning to wonder if the Indians have put a sneaky bet on
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This is already the 3rd highest partnership in the game, that first innings was something a bit special.
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Robson gone - bowled Kumar for 6. It was a really testing line from Kumar that got him.
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I'm starting to worry about Robson now, I liked the calmness he had when he came in but he's not backing it up with runs and the indians seem to have found a line and length that he really struggles with.
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Cook gone for 17, out on the hook.
There's really no need to play that shot until you are firmly on top in the game.
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English batsman seem to be easily suckered into playing shots like that though, I've never really understood why.
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Unless we unearth a real fast bowling talent ( there are some promising players out there, but no one ready just yet) then we have to stick with Woakes, Jordan and Finn as the back-ups to Anderson and Broad. After this series there are only five Test matches before The Ashes start, they will need all five of those to get their confidence up and start taking wickets. For that reason I'd play Finn instead of Woakes for the next match and then in the West Indies and New Zealand drop Broad or Anderson on rotation for all the Tests so that all three of the others get maximum game time.
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It's a shame we lost Ballance at the death, otherwise what a cracking day for England.
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Great day. Broad and Anderson got it spot on early on. Dhoni played a really excellent innings to save India from total capitulation.
Slightly annoying that we used the nightwatchman. Surely Root could have been trusted to survive 3 balls?
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Excellent day overall.
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English batsman seem to be easily suckered into playing shots like that though, I've never really understood why.
The worst shot of the day was Bell's 'swing and a miss' to his first ball faced.
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I'm starting to worry about Robson now, I liked the calmness he had when he came in but he's not backing it up with runs and the indians seem to have found a line and length that he really struggles with.
Yeah, his lack of runs is becoming a bit of a concern now and it's putting that extra bit of pressure on Ballance. Saying that, we've got Carberry and Compton who could quite easily step in if needed so it's not really a major problem.
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Unless we unearth a real fast bowling talent ( there are some promising players out there, but no one ready just yet) then we have to stick with Woakes, Jordan and Finn as the back-ups to Anderson and Broad. After this series there are only five Test matches before The Ashes start, they will need all five of those to get their confidence up and start taking wickets. For that reason I'd play Finn instead of Woakes for the next match and then in the West Indies and New Zealand drop Broad or Anderson on rotation for all the Tests so that all three of the others get maximum game time.
I don't think there is such a player out there in county cricket at the moment. What we really could do with is finding a front line spinner and for Finn and Stokes to recover their form and continue improving.
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We did unearth a real fast bowling talent: Steven Finn.
We then however, messed about with his action and run up so much that he lost all confidence and pace. He looks on the way to getting it back and must come into the team for the last test.
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No, Finn somehow messed with his own action and started hitting the stumps on his run in. He couldn't be allowed to keep doing that because he was no-balled every time he touched the stumps.
Not seen him bowl since but the fact he has been bought back means he must have corrected his action to stop hitting the stumps. Hope so, and I hope he gets a start in the 5th test.
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Fecking Nasser Hussein, States that Bell was settling in nicely and...bang, out next ball!
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Hmmm it's going ok, but batsmen have given it away a bit. I really like Moeen but he's got to sort his short ball issue, because it lead to his dismissal today.
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still a good first 4 sessions for us, I think most people would've taken us having 4 wickets left and a lead of 50 by this point after we lost the toss.
If this pair can stick around for an hour I think 300 is possible and would be a very good lead on a pitch that will give our bowlers a lot to work with.
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Root and Buttler doing well here.
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Rain stopped play. It looks pretty dark even with the floodlights on.
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This is why I've been so eager for Buttler to get a chance in the test side, they know he can score big runs very quickly and are being very cagey with him. The rain delay is frustrating as you're never quite sure what it will do to the pitch but we're only 50-60 runs from a dominant lead now.
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Maybe so but he was distinctly average behind the stumps yesterday. He can't be picked solely because he can bat.
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Maybe so but he was distinctly average behind the stumps yesterday. He can't be picked solely because he can bat.
I think that was a lot to do with the conditions, Peter. Dhoni was pretty awful too.
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Maybe so but he was distinctly average behind the stumps yesterday. He can't be picked solely because he can bat.
I think that was a lot to do with the conditions, Peter. Dhoni was pretty awful too.
From what I've seen I agree, he was solid in the first test and has done little in the last 6 months to suggest that we're trading off his batting agianst some poor keeping. Yesterday there seemed to be a lot of pace and bounce in the pitch and a lot of movement in the air, making the ones that were a bit off target do a lot more than you'd expect.
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If it had been Prior who dropped the catch yesterday and let the four byes through his fingers he'd have been crucified on here. Always felt sorry for the likes of Chris Read and Foster who are both excellent wicketkkeepers but got overlooked for lesser keepers who could bat a bit.
I had to turn TMS off earlier, couldn't listen to Boycott being so rude to Allison Mitchell, hope somebody has a word with him.
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Prior was an excellent player, but he's gone downhill and won't be back I don't think. Buttler was always going to be a developmental pick.
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If it had been Prior who dropped the catch yesterday and let the four byes through his fingers he'd have been crucified on here. Always felt sorry for the likes of Chris Read and Foster who are both excellent wicketkkeepers but got overlooked for lesser keepers who could bat a bit.
I had to turn TMS off earlier, couldn't listen to Boycott being so rude to Allison Mitchell, hope somebody has a word with him.
The key is that it's easier to improve a good batsman who an average wicketkeeper than the other way round.
Chris Read is a great example, his average for England, in all formats, is about 18. To justify that you really need to make a massive difference in the field, he'd have to bat at 9 or 10 in this England line up and I just don't think he's so much better to deserve that.
Prior only started getting picked up on his keeping weaknesses when his batting fell apart, when he was averaging 45 at 75-80% strike rate no one had a bad word to say about him, but when you're making mistakes in the field and getting out for 10-20 regularly you're always going to be setting yourself up for the block.
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Inspection at 4.30pm
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Inspection at 4.30pm
Further inspection at 5pm
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I had to turn TMS off earlier, couldn't listen to Boycott being so rude to Allison Mitchell, hope somebody has a word with him.
I heard that as well. Yesterday he was bordering on patronising but today he was downright rude.
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I likes the suggestion that Andrew Samson's database be named "Geoffrey" because it knows everything.....or at least thinks it does.
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It's bad that a 10-20 yard stretch of the outfield is going to end the day's play.
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It's bad that a 10-20 yard stretch of the outfield is going to end the day's play.
I've just got home from work and switched the live coverage on. As Ian Ward has just asked, given the ground was under water last Friday - a T20 game went into a reserve day - and the same stretch of the outfield was boggy, why didn't they bring the rope in 10 metres?
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Play now abandoned for the day.
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Are they allowed to move the boundary rope in the middle of a Test? If not then given the forecast for Sunday it's likely the match won't finish (unless England can skittle them out tomorrow).
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Are they allowed to move the boundary rope in the middle of a Test? If not then given the forecast for Sunday it's likely the match won't finish (unless England can skittle them out tomorrow).
Nope, can't change the pitch dimensions after the first delivery.
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Didn't think so.
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If it had been Prior who dropped the catch yesterday and let the four byes through his fingers he'd have been crucified on here. Always felt sorry for the likes of Chris Read and Foster who are both excellent wicketkkeepers but got overlooked for lesser keepers who could bat a bit.
I had to turn TMS off earlier, couldn't listen to Boycott being so rude to Allison Mitchell, hope somebody has a word with him.
The key is that it's easier to improve a good batsman who an average wicketkeeper than the other way round.
Chris Read is a great example, his average for England, in all formats, is about 18. To justify that you really need to make a massive difference in the field, he'd have to bat at 9 or 10 in this England line up and I just don't think he's so much better to deserve that.
Prior only started getting picked up on his keeping weaknesses when his batting fell apart, when he was averaging 45 at 75-80% strike rate no one had a bad word to say about him, but when you're making mistakes in the field and getting out for 10-20 regularly you're always going to be setting yourself up for the block.
Agreed but you also have to say that Prior's keeping come on leaps and bounds. He was more than just average behind the stumps as he progressed in the England team. I worry about buttler's batting because I think he's been charmed so far. He has took advantage and fair play to him. But when he goes through a bad run I don't think he's ready enough to dig himself out the hole and I worry about his technique when under pressure.
Absolutely he should be in the team on merit right now but I just worry that he's not yet properly ready for it. The negative side of it.
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Are they allowed to move the boundary rope in the middle of a Test? If not then given the forecast for Sunday it's likely the match won't finish (unless England can skittle them out tomorrow).
Nope, can't change the pitch dimensions after the first delivery.
Given the weather forecast they could have applied a bit of common sense and brought the rope in before the start.
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Pretty much need to go all guns blazing this morning, and get 180-200 ahead quickly.
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Yep 180-200 and then declare.
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If it had been Prior who dropped the catch yesterday and let the four byes through his fingers he'd have been crucified on here. Always felt sorry for the likes of Chris Read and Foster who are both excellent wicketkkeepers but got overlooked for lesser keepers who could bat a bit.
I had to turn TMS off earlier, couldn't listen to Boycott being so rude to Allison Mitchell, hope somebody has a word with him.
Game has changed though. A test team cannot afford to carry a wicketkeeper who only averages around mid 20's.
Buttler has so much raw ability, he has to be in the team. His keeping was outstanding in the previous test.
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Root gone, good knock from him and I'm actually quite glad that Pankaj has got a wicket.
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Woakes in now hope he does well, got to miss it though - got to go and pick my nipper up from Airport and get him to his cricket match down at Shenley Lane!!
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Woakes in now hope he does well, got to miss it though - got to go and pick my nipper up from Airport and get him to his cricket match down at Shenley Lane!!
Tell him to get the bus. Some things are more important than family :)
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Woakes in now hope he does well, got to miss it though - got to go and pick my nipper up from Airport and get him to his cricket match down at Shenley Lane!!
Tell him to get the bus. Some things are more important than family :)
If it was just him bet your life i would but he has my little grandson with him and i ain't seen him for a fortnight!!!
Woakes off and running!!
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Buttler gone for 70, good knock though. Pankaj gets another!
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Not too upset to be honest. With the forecast tomorrow, we need to be bowling pretty soon today.
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Wow..... that's got to hurt.
Stuart Broad just top edged the ball into his face. It went through the grill and hit him in the nose.
Blood dripping
Umpire Erasmus then had to wipe the blood from the ball. I thought that these days, blood on the ball would mean that it would have to be changed.
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Broad being injured is a real blow.
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Good opportunity for Jordan and Woakes though.
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We're not going anywhere here, we should be going out to bowl now.
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Right now we're bowling.
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Woakes really needs to start taking wickets.
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Woakes bowls nicely, but there's just something missing for him as a bowler at International level for me. I hope he proves me wrong, but he just seems to lack threat.
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Our change bowlers really need to start stepping up as a threat, as at the minute we're too reliant on Anderson and Broad. Ali has done really well, but the seamers haven't offered enough. I guess that's why it's really important we get Finn back at his best.
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Woakes gets a wicket! well done.
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Jimmy strikes!
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Ali gets Pujara! Loads of turn!
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That was going way over the stumps, but it looked stone dead in real time. Ali is really becoming a very useful bowler for us, and deserves more respect than he gets.
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Another two down, Ali and Anderson again. This could end today.
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There's number 6
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Ali gets Jadeja out, I think he's plenty good enough to be our number 1 spinner.
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I accept full responsibility for the flurry of wickets, I've been out all day, hadn't checked the score or anything but turned the cricket on as Jimmy was starting the run up for the gambhir wicket.
I'm really glad that woakes did well with the bat and has got his wicket. If he can keep scoring with the bat he's a good option as a 4th seamer.
The commentators really need to stop calling Moeen a part-time spinner, it's just disrespectful, he's delivered regular wickets, I havemore worries about his batting to the short stuff than I do about his bowling.
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Exactly Ali's bowling figures this series have been excellent, he's much more than part time spin.
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This is Moeen's 6th Test and he has 20 wickets, that's a pretty excellent return given that he hasn't bowled that many overs.
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Make that 21 wickets, Ali gets Dhoni.
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Bugger, been busy so haven't been able to watch today other than the last two overs. With no Broad that is an impressive bowling performance.
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One of things I've liked about this Test was the firm, old fashioned handshakes between Root and Buttler when they were batting. I miss the handshake.
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This is Moeen's 6th Test and he has 20 wickets, that's a pretty excellent return given that he hasn't bowled that many overs.
He's had an amazing impact in such a short space of time. Definitely something there to work with going forward and hopefully he can cement himself as the number one spinner.
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It was a great performance, and I'm pleased Jordan got a couple of wickets. Ali has done brilliantly and his bowling has been great, I also think he's a really classy batsmen and he'll sort his slight issue with the short ball and go on to be a great player for us.
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Said all along England aren't as bad as people were making out. India aren't great but we're going through a period of transition and hopefully we won't hear any more mention of Piers Morgan's best mate.
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Said all along England aren't as bad as people were making out. India aren't great but we're going through a period of transition and hopefully we won't hear any more mention of Piers Morgan's best mate.
I'd still have Pietersen back in the side in a heartbeat.
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Damn, that didn't last long.
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I wouldn't, I was a big fan of KP but we've moved on and his form over the last year was poor. Time to leave the past behind and move to the future with players like Ballance, Moeen, Buttler etc.
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I was out all day today at West Midlands Safari Park so missed everything.
How did Woakes bowl?
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How did Woakes bowl?
Averagely, he's still too expensive.
But he'll get there, it's good that England have some real quality in Broad, Anderson and now Ali because it will allow the likes of Woakes and Jordan to get up to Test level in their own time. Look how long it took Anderson to finally look like a Test bowler, plenty were writing him off in the early days.
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How did Woakes bowl?
Averagely, he's still too expensive.
But he'll get there, it's good that England have some real quality in Broad, Anderson and now Ali because it will allow the likes of Woakes and Jordan to get up to Test level in their own time. Look how long it took Anderson to finally look like a Test bowler, plenty were writing him off in the early days.
Cheers, I'd love him to make it. Thought he was poor in the first innings.
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How did Woakes bowl?
Averagely, he's still too expensive.
But he'll get there, it's good that England have some real quality in Broad, Anderson and now Ali because it will allow the likes of Woakes and Jordan to get up to Test level in their own time. Look how long it took Anderson to finally look like a Test bowler, plenty were writing him off in the early days.
I think the ECB had a role in Anderson's early struggles. He burst onto the scene with pace and accuracy. He looked a bit odd as his head was looking down as he delivered the ball, so the experts tried to change him.
It was only when he went back to his natural technique that he became the world class operator he is.
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How did Woakes bowl?
Averagely, he's still too expensive.
But he'll get there, it's good that England have some real quality in Broad, Anderson and now Ali because it will allow the likes of Woakes and Jordan to get up to Test level in their own time. Look how long it took Anderson to finally look like a Test bowler, plenty were writing him off in the early days.
I think the ECB had a role in Anderson's early struggles. He burst onto the scene with pace and accuracy. He looked a bit odd as his head was looking down as he delivered the ball, so the experts tried to change him.
It was only when he went back to his natural technique that he became the world class operator he is.
I think Woakes is a bit of a work in progress, he's added a good amount of pace in the last year and he's been working on adding an inswinger. Once he gets that in the bag and can concentrate on accuracy hell be a good bowler, I'd keep him in for the next test, in fact I wouldn't change the team (other than Finn for Broad if his broken nose keeps him out), the confidence could be pretty fragile so I'd rather not risk it by changing things.
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How did Woakes bowl?
Averagely, he's still too expensive.
But he'll get there, it's good that England have some real quality in Broad, Anderson and now Ali because it will allow the likes of Woakes and Jordan to get up to Test level in their own time. Look how long it took Anderson to finally look like a Test bowler, plenty were writing him off in the early days.
I think the ECB had a role in Anderson's early struggles. He burst onto the scene with pace and accuracy. He looked a bit odd as his head was looking down as he delivered the ball, so the experts tried to change him.
It was only when he went back to his natural technique that he became the world class operator he is.
I think Woakes is a bit of a work in progress, he's added a good amount of pace in the last year and he's been working on adding an inswinger. Once he gets that in the bag and can concentrate on accuracy hell be a good bowler, I'd keep him in for the next test, in fact I wouldn't change the team (other than Finn for Broad if his broken nose keeps him out), the confidence could be pretty fragile so I'd rather not risk it by changing things.
Agree that if Broad is fit then the team should be unchanged for The Oval. Going forward, I don't know if there will be room in the team for Woakes and Jordan, especially if Finn finds some form.
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How did Woakes bowl?
Averagely, he's still too expensive.
But he'll get there, it's good that England have some real quality in Broad, Anderson and now Ali because it will allow the likes of Woakes and Jordan to get up to Test level in their own time. Look how long it took Anderson to finally look like a Test bowler, plenty were writing him off in the early days.
I think the ECB had a role in Anderson's early struggles. He burst onto the scene with pace and accuracy. He looked a bit odd as his head was looking down as he delivered the ball, so the experts tried to change him.
It was only when he went back to his natural technique that he became the world class operator he is.
I think Woakes is a bit of a work in progress, he's added a good amount of pace in the last year and he's been working on adding an inswinger. Once he gets that in the bag and can concentrate on accuracy hell be a good bowler, I'd keep him in for the next test, in fact I wouldn't change the team (other than Finn for Broad if his broken nose keeps him out), the confidence could be pretty fragile so I'd rather not risk it by changing things.
Agree that if Broad is fit then the team should be unchanged for The Oval. Going forward, I don't know if there will be room in the team for Woakes and Jordan, especially if Finn finds some form.
A fit and firing Finn would be a definite pick.
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How did Woakes bowl?
Averagely, he's still too expensive.
But he'll get there, it's good that England have some real quality in Broad, Anderson and now Ali because it will allow the likes of Woakes and Jordan to get up to Test level in their own time. Look how long it took Anderson to finally look like a Test bowler, plenty were writing him off in the early days.
I think the ECB had a role in Anderson's early struggles. He burst onto the scene with pace and accuracy. He looked a bit odd as his head was looking down as he delivered the ball, so the experts tried to change him.
It was only when he went back to his natural technique that he became the world class operator he is.
I think Woakes is a bit of a work in progress, he's added a good amount of pace in the last year and he's been working on adding an inswinger. Once he gets that in the bag and can concentrate on accuracy hell be a good bowler, I'd keep him in for the next test, in fact I wouldn't change the team (other than Finn for Broad if his broken nose keeps him out), the confidence could be pretty fragile so I'd rather not risk it by changing things.
Agree that if Broad is fit then the team should be unchanged for The Oval. Going forward, I don't know if there will be room in the team for Woakes and Jordan, especially if Finn finds some form.
A fit and firing Finn would be a definite pick.
Nah, stick with Woakes and Jordan - they still have plenty of time and both are good batsmen. Finn is too inconsistent.
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How did Woakes bowl?
Averagely, he's still too expensive.
But he'll get there, it's good that England have some real quality in Broad, Anderson and now Ali because it will allow the likes of Woakes and Jordan to get up to Test level in their own time. Look how long it took Anderson to finally look like a Test bowler, plenty were writing him off in the early days.
I think the ECB had a role in Anderson's early struggles. He burst onto the scene with pace and accuracy. He looked a bit odd as his head was looking down as he delivered the ball, so the experts tried to change him.
It was only when he went back to his natural technique that he became the world class operator he is.
I think Woakes is a bit of a work in progress, he's added a good amount of pace in the last year and he's been working on adding an inswinger. Once he gets that in the bag and can concentrate on accuracy hell be a good bowler, I'd keep him in for the next test, in fact I wouldn't change the team (other than Finn for Broad if his broken nose keeps him out), the confidence could be pretty fragile so I'd rather not risk it by changing things.
Agree that if Broad is fit then the team should be unchanged for The Oval. Going forward, I don't know if there will be room in the team for Woakes and Jordan, especially if Finn finds some form.
A fit and firing Finn would be a definite pick.
Nah, stick with Woakes and Jordan - they still have plenty of time and both are good batsmen. Finn is too inconsistent.
That's what I meant by firing. Finn at his best is a much better bowler than both of Woakes and Jordan at their best.
Having a long batting line up is one thing, but you need to be able to take 20 wickets.
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How did Woakes bowl?
Averagely, he's still too expensive.
But he'll get there, it's good that England have some real quality in Broad, Anderson and now Ali because it will allow the likes of Woakes and Jordan to get up to Test level in their own time. Look how long it took Anderson to finally look like a Test bowler, plenty were writing him off in the early days.
I think the ECB had a role in Anderson's early struggles. He burst onto the scene with pace and accuracy. He looked a bit odd as his head was looking down as he delivered the ball, so the experts tried to change him.
It was only when he went back to his natural technique that he became the world class operator he is.
I think Woakes is a bit of a work in progress, he's added a good amount of pace in the last year and he's been working on adding an inswinger. Once he gets that in the bag and can concentrate on accuracy hell be a good bowler, I'd keep him in for the next test, in fact I wouldn't change the team (other than Finn for Broad if his broken nose keeps him out), the confidence could be pretty fragile so I'd rather not risk it by changing things.
Agree that if Broad is fit then the team should be unchanged for The Oval. Going forward, I don't know if there will be room in the team for Woakes and Jordan, especially if Finn finds some form.
A fit and firing Finn would be a definite pick.
Nah, stick with Woakes and Jordan - they still have plenty of time and both are good batsmen. Finn is too inconsistent.
That's what I meant by firing. Finn at his best is a much better bowler than both of Woakes and Jordan at their best.
Having a long batting line up is one thing, but you need to be able to take 20 wickets.
Would agree with that. Not sure Jordan and Woakes are going to offer enough with the ball to be considered automatic picks going forward. If Ali can continue with his current bowling form and Finn begins to perform again, then I see the final place being a choice between Woakes, Jordan, Bresnan and Stokes.
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I think they offer different things:
Finn and Jordan (andd Plunkett to keep a recent bowler in the discussion) are strike bowlers for me, guys you give 3-4 overs and hope for a wicket. Jordan needs to get his line tighter but he's quick and aggressive so that's where we should be pushing him. We really shouldn't be asking for long spells from these guys, we want them to out 100% into every delivery every time.
Bresnan, Woakes and Stokes look more like guys who you can trust to bowl a long spell and keep things tight. Both of the younger guys have been hit around the park a touch in their test career but they both seem to have the right attitude and importantly both have a nice clean repeatable action which gives them the option to bowl 10-12 over spells.
If Moeen can continue to look every bit a test match spinner and we can keep Broad and Anderson fit and in form we're basically looking for one from each group, on form Woakes deserves to stay but Jordan and Fiinn are very close for me.
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Yeah I'd agree, I'd use Finn a bit like Australia use Johnson in really short spells to try and devastate a side. I think Jordan can be a top player, but he needs to work out how to sort his rhythm when he hasn't bowled for a while.
Woakes and Stokes need to learn to be controlled bowlers who offer a threat.
Moeen is becoming a very fine bowler and he will be a fine batsmen as well.
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At least a couple of wins will knock back the anti-Bell brigade for the rest of the summer.
How people can call for clearly the best batsman in the team -and one of the best in the world -to be dropped, is completely beyond me.
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At least a couple of wins will knock back the anti-Bell brigade for the rest of the summer.
How people can call for clearly the best batsman in the team -and one of the best in the world -to be dropped, is completely beyond me.
He's always suffered negative press throughout his England career. Initially it was because he never scored big runs when the team needed it, only after the top order had scored well. He put that to bed after last summer's Ashes. He suffered a torrid winter and like several of his teammates seemed to be suffering from a post-Ashes hangover, Anderson, Broad, Cook & Bell were all affected in the early part of the international season. He's come good as have his teammates.
He is the most stylish English batsman. Hopefully he's got several more seasons left in the test side before returning to captain the Bears at the end of his career. In fact the Bears have a player who could replace him in the England team. Sam Hain looks a test player in the making and he's only just turned 19.
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I think there's always been a hell of a lot expected of Bell. He is the best batsman in the side and has an excellent record.
I still think he's underachieved though. With his ability he really should be averaging around 50-55 and have 30 centuries now.
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I think there's always been a hell of a lot expected of Bell. He is the best batsman in the side and has an excellent record.
I still think he's underachieved though. With his ability he really should be averaging around 50-55 and have 30 centuries now.
I don't think that over 7,000 test runs, an average over 45 and 21 test centuries is underachievement. He's got a few years left in him yet.
The player that should have averaged 50+ and scored 30 test centuries is Pietersen. I think he underachieved. He should have been up there with Ponting.
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I think they offer different things:
Finn and Jordan (andd Plunkett to keep a recent bowler in the discussion) are strike bowlers for me, guys you give 3-4 overs and hope for a wicket. Jordan needs to get his line tighter but he's quick and aggressive so that's where we should be pushing him. We really shouldn't be asking for long spells from these guys, we want them to out 100% into every delivery every time.
Bresnan, Woakes and Stokes look more like guys who you can trust to bowl a long spell and keep things tight. Both of the younger guys have been hit around the park a touch in their test career but they both seem to have the right attitude and importantly both have a nice clean repeatable action which gives them the option to bowl 10-12 over spells.
If Moeen can continue to look every bit a test match spinner and we can keep Broad and Anderson fit and in form we're basically looking for one from each group, on form Woakes deserves to stay but Jordan and Fiinn are very close for me.
Would agree with that Paul. Anderson and Broad are shoe-ins and Moeen has been a revelation, which leaves space for two more bowlers. I agree that one of those should be a strike bowler and would say that if both are on form, then Finn's extra height would give him the edge over Jordan (though Jordan is the better fielder and batsman). The other role would involve holding an end up, keeping it tight and picking up the odd wicket. Looking at the other bowling options, they would also have to bat at 8, so we'd probably be looking at Woakes or Stokes, both of who have been a little expensive in their short careers.
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At least a couple of wins will knock back the anti-Bell brigade for the rest of the summer.
How people can call for clearly the best batsman in the team -and one of the best in the world -to be dropped, is completely beyond me.
Who has been calling for him to be dropped? He even appears to have escaped the demands to be dropped from the fickle bunch on here, think he's the only one!
smiley, winky thing.
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I was seething with him, because as a senior player, he was badly letting the side down and had got away with it somewhat with Cook being in the spotlight.
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I never had an issue with Bell mainly because he seemed to have just got into a bad luck rut. If you compare his run of low scores and the way he got out with the likes of cook and prior the key difference is that teams hadn't found a weakness that they were exploiting he was just getting done by good deliveries and big of a drop in confidence but still looked like a world class batsman. Cook looked scared and was getting drawn into making the same mistakes, Prior just looked like his technique had abandoned him.
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I think I agree.
Bell seemed to be finding interesting new ways to get out after looking in prime form and scoring 20-30, whereas Cook just looked hopelessly out of form and the Indian bowlers clearly thought they had worked him out.
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I think there's always been a hell of a lot expected of Bell. He is the best batsman in the side and has an excellent record.
I still think he's underachieved though. With his ability he really should be averaging around 50-55 and have 30 centuries now.
I don't think that over 7,000 test runs, an average over 45 and 21 test centuries is underachievement. He's got a few years left in him yet.
The player that should have averaged 50+ and scored 30 test centuries is Pietersen. I think he underachieved. He should have been up there with Ponting.
I think it is an underachievement considering the ability he has. I think ability wise, Bell is up there with Ponting, Jayawardene etc.
Don't get me wrong, he's still had a very good career. I just think he has the talent to be one of the best batsmen to have played in this generation. Hopefully his last few years will see his record continue to improve
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I think there's always been a hell of a lot expected of Bell. He is the best batsman in the side and has an excellent record.
I still think he's underachieved though. With his ability he really should be averaging around 50-55 and have 30 centuries now.
I don't think that over 7,000 test runs, an average over 45 and 21 test centuries is underachievement. He's got a few years left in him yet.
The player that should have averaged 50+ and scored 30 test centuries is Pietersen. I think he underachieved. He should have been up there with Ponting.
I think it is an underachievement considering the ability he has. I think ability wise, Bell is up there with Ponting, Jayawardene etc.
Don't get me wrong, he's still had a very good career. I just think he has the talent to be one of the best batsmen to have played in this generation. Hopefully his last few years will see his record continue to improve
Bell is a class act but he's nowhere near Ponting who was an awesome batsman.
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Good to see Stokes hit a century today, he'll be a top player for England. He's got that x factor about him.
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I think there's always been a hell of a lot expected of Bell. He is the best batsman in the side and has an excellent record.
I still think he's underachieved though. With his ability he really should be averaging around 50-55 and have 30 centuries now.
I don't think that over 7,000 test runs, an average over 45 and 21 test centuries is underachievement. He's got a few years left in him yet.
The player that should have averaged 50+ and scored 30 test centuries is Pietersen. I think he underachieved. He should have been up there with Ponting.
I think it is an underachievement considering the ability he has. I think ability wise, Bell is up there with Ponting, Jayawardene etc.
Don't get me wrong, he's still had a very good career. I just think he has the talent to be one of the best batsmen to have played in this generation. Hopefully his last few years will see his record continue to improve
Bell is a class act but he's nowhere near Ponting who was an awesome batsman.
I think the only difference between the two is mental strength.
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I think there's always been a hell of a lot expected of Bell. He is the best batsman in the side and has an excellent record.
I still think he's underachieved though. With his ability he really should be averaging around 50-55 and have 30 centuries now.
I don't think that over 7,000 test runs, an average over 45 and 21 test centuries is underachievement. He's got a few years left in him yet.
The player that should have averaged 50+ and scored 30 test centuries is Pietersen. I think he underachieved. He should have been up there with Ponting.
I think it is an underachievement considering the ability he has. I think ability wise, Bell is up there with Ponting, Jayawardene etc.
Don't get me wrong, he's still had a very good career. I just think he has the talent to be one of the best batsmen to have played in this generation. Hopefully his last few years will see his record continue to improve
Bell is a class act but he's nowhere near Ponting who was an awesome batsman.
I think the only difference between the two is mental strength.
The SKY Masterclass with Ricky Ponting was really good. Interesting to hear him talk about how he couldn't play the cut shot and the troubles (both technical and mental) he had against spin. Didn't hold him back that much though!!
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I think there's always been a hell of a lot expected of Bell. He is the best batsman in the side and has an excellent record.
I still think he's underachieved though. With his ability he really should be averaging around 50-55 and have 30 centuries now.
I don't think that over 7,000 test runs, an average over 45 and 21 test centuries is underachievement. He's got a few years left in him yet.
The player that should have averaged 50+ and scored 30 test centuries is Pietersen. I think he underachieved. He should have been up there with Ponting.
I think it is an underachievement considering the ability he has. I think ability wise, Bell is up there with Ponting, Jayawardene etc.
Don't get me wrong, he's still had a very good career. I just think he has the talent to be one of the best batsmen to have played in this generation. Hopefully his last few years will see his record continue to improve
Bell is a class act but he's nowhere near Ponting who was an awesome batsman.
I think the only difference between the two is mental strength.
At the highest level of a lot of professional sports, it's around 80% technique and 20% mental strength. That Ponting had it but Bell has struggled at times puts Ponting well ahead. Over 26,000 International runs puts him second to Tendulkar in the modern game. As good as Bell is, he will never be as good as Ponting.
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I think Bell is technically better than Ponting ever was, it's his mental strength that has let him down. I actually think there are very few players ever who have better technique than Bell. As the commentators always mention, all of his shots are absolutely text book perfect.
For example, moving up to 4 (or even 3) should have been a chance for him to push his game on, instead he had a long period of things just not working for him, I'm convinced that's because he knew his best scores had all come at 5.
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Did anyone else see James Taylor and Alex Hales batting for Notts today? Both hit centuries but Taylor's was incredible. Surely they've got to make the one day team.
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Did anyone else see James Taylor and Alex Hales batting for Notts today? Both hit centuries but Taylor's was incredible. Surely they've got to make the one day team.
There are some massve scores being posted in the 50 over tournament this season. I saw a bit of the Notts game and not to take anything away from Hales and Taylor, it was noted in the studio that the bowling was pretty average to say the least. Agree about Hales, he has to be given the chance to open for England in ODIs (alongside Bell would be my preferred choice). Not so sure about James Taylor though, as my 3-7 would be Ballance, Root, Morgan, Bopara and Buttler, so I'm not sure where he'd get in (maybe ahead of Ravi, but he bowls).
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Hales should definitely play in the ODIs and he's shown some form in 4 day cricket lately, so he could be a Test option come next summer.
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I'm a big fan of Hales, he's very strong and aggressive but he's got solid technique behind it all, I think he'll be in the test side within the next 18months, I'd probably give him a shot in the west indies.
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Start delayed in the test
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At least we know that Daggers won't be commentating on the Test
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England unchanged and we bowl first, it's fair enough to be unchanged. I hope Jordan got some confidence from those last couple of wickets at Old Trafford. India bring in Sharma and Binny for Jadeja and Pankaj, so they're stronger.
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What a start! Gambhir gone, Jimmy strikes.
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Good start by Jimmy!
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7 more James!!!
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Pujara was certainly hoping for a miracle when he hung around after he was out.
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It's been a good start.
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Probably time for a bowling change now, the threat has subsided a bit.
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Probably time for a bowling change now, the threat has subsided a bit.
Jordan strikes in his first over, Kohli LBW for 6
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Great stuff, see I've always rated Jordan and now he's got some confidence and rhythm he can do real damage. I was just about to say in spite of his low scores I still fear Kohli!
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Great stuff, see I've always rated Jordan and now he's got some confidence and rhythm he can do real damage. I was just about to say in spite of his low scores I still fear Kohli!
We need Woakes to step up now.
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Another one for Jordan - took a good caught and bowled to get rid of Rahane without troubling the scorers.
28-4
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Jordan stikes again! I do really rate him as a cricketer, we've just got to make sure he gets a lot of bowling under his belt. He's so much a rhythm bowler.
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Jordan stikes again! I do really rate him as a cricketer, we've just got to make sure he gets a lot of bowling under his belt. He's so much a rhythm bowler.
Agree and I hope the coaching staff don't try and alter his bowling (his action etc.) too much and focus on what he actually does well.
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What an awesome over by Woakes.
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What an awesome over by Woakes.
He just needs a little bit of luck now. That wicket will spur him on.
We'll be batting by tea.
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Great stuff from Woakes, but this is pathetic from India again.
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What an awesome over by Woakes.
That's why I want them to stick with him, he's bowled a lot of truly excellent stuff in this series and hasn't really had the rewards it deserves. The wicket just was a belter.
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Great stuff from Woakes, but this is pathetic from India again.
Their complaint about Jimmy has really backfired on them. I always felt that it was just a way of taking him out of the attack. The whole episode has galvanised our attack.
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What's good in this innings is that the back up bowlers have followed up what the openers did.
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I still think Stokes has more about him than Woakes and long term will be a better Test cricketer, but Woakes is a good player.
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I still think Stokes has more about him than Woakes and long term will be a better Test cricketer, but Woakes is a good player.
[/quote
I am completely the opposite, as i have stated before Jordan will incur injuries due to that nightmare that is a run up of his. I really want him to do well
as i do Woakes.
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I still think Stokes has more about him than Woakes and long term will be a better Test cricketer, but Woakes is a good player.
[/quote
I am completely the opposite, as i have stated before Jordan will incur injuries due to that nightmare that is a run up of his. I really want him to do well
as i do Woakes.
Forget the comment above, mis read it i thought you were referring to Jordan.
Once again though with regard to Stokes i firmly believe that Woakes will come out on top in that battle also. Stokes' temperament is not that great whereas
Woakes is so level-headed it's untrue, but what is in his favour, in my opinion, he listens and more importantly he learns. He may well progress a little slower than Stokes & Jordan but he will come out on top.
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I think Stokes has already shown with bat and ball he can be a top player and he has that x factor about him. I think Woakes will always be a good player, but I can't see him being a match winner/saver on his own.
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I think Stokes has already shown with bat and ball he can be a top player and he has that x factor about him. I think Woakes will always be a good player, but I can't see him being a match winner/saver on his own.
For me whilst we have Broad and Jimmy (and Jordan) the 4th seamer isn't there to be a regular wicket taker, he's there to bowl pressure spells and keep one end tight. Stokes can do that but he's a bit rash and can get drawn in to bowling where the batsman wants, that comes from being, in cricket terms, still a kid. Woakes seems a bit more concentrated in that regard. Add on that whilst Stokes has done it with the bat once Woakes has shown in both domestic and so far in tests that he'll stick around and get important runs regularly.
Give it a few years and all 3 will be playing regularly alongside Finn, which has the potential to be a good attack.
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Yeah but Stokes has scored more centuries than Woakes in first class cricket as well. I like Woakes and I think he's improved a lot in the last year, but I think he still needs a bit more.
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Yeah but Stokes has scored more centuries than Woakes in first class cricket as well. I like Woakes and I think he's improved a lot in the last year, but I think he still needs a bit more.
What I meant by the batting thing is, Stokes seems a little 'all or nothing' at the minute whereas Woakes whilst not getting big scores seems to consistently make 25-35 runs, which is pretty useful given we have Jordan and Broad down there as the big sloggers.
I think Stokes will be very good but I think he'd have been better off having a full uninterrupted summer with Durham this year, he's still very young to be an international all-rounder and the pressure got to him (with the bat).
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Yeah but Stokes has scored more centuries than Woakes in first class cricket as well. I like Woakes and I think he's improved a lot in the last year, but I think he still needs a bit more.
You can make statistics win any argument yes he has 9 first class centuries to Woakes 8 but Woakes ave in 1st class cricket is 38.6 to Stokes 34.2, Woakes has 4014 1st class runs to Stokes 3623.
Ben Stokes Test average is 25.36 whereas Woakes Test average is 75.
Stokes average contains a 100 in that test average as well.
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Six down
At of a population of a billion, is this seriously the best eleven cricketers India can find ?
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6 more please James...in this match want you to beat 'Beefy' at home not in Caribbean.
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Six down
At of a population of a billion, is this seriously the best eleven cricketers India can find ?
Not a billion men though don't forget.
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Six down
At of a population of a billion, is this seriously the best eleven cricketers India can find ?
Not a billion men though don't forget.
Sexist ;)
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7
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Great catch by Root
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Great catch by Root
Great bowling from Woakes 6.4 3 9 2
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Great catch by Root
Great bowling from Woakes 6.4 3 9 2
Good to see the 3rd and 4th seamers in amongst the wickets
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Great catch by Root
Great bowling from Woakes 6.4 3 9 2
Good to see the 3rd and 4th seamers in amongst the wickets
We need some input from Anderson & Broad here 5 wkts to the 'boys'.
Shit ball but even worse shot....what was he thinking about.
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Another for Woakes, 90-9
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Yeah but Stokes has scored more centuries than Woakes in first class cricket as well. I like Woakes and I think he's improved a lot in the last year, but I think he still needs a bit more.
You can make statistics win any argument yes he has 9 first class centuries to Woakes 8 but Woakes ave in 1st class cricket is 38.6 to Stokes 34.2, Woakes has 4014 1st class runs to Stokes 3623.
Ben Stokes Test average is 25.36 whereas Woakes Test average is 75.
Stokes average contains a 100 in that test average as well.
Of course but I was responding to the fact their Stokes only has one century in Tests. Look I like Woakes, but I think Stokes has more about him as a Test cricketer. I hope they both end up being great, but if I had to put my money on who will have the better Test career I think it'll be Stokes.
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Poor drop from Bell there unfortunately, but hopefully it won't matter.
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Good to see Cookie keeping the field up to Dhoni, big change from earlier in the summer.
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Yeah but Stokes has scored more centuries than Woakes in first class cricket as well. I like Woakes and I think he's improved a lot in the last year, but I think he still needs a bit more.
You can make statistics win any argument yes he has 9 first class centuries to Woakes 8 but Woakes ave in 1st class cricket is 38.6 to Stokes 34.2, Woakes has 4014 1st class runs to Stokes 3623.
Ben Stokes Test average is 25.36 whereas Woakes Test average is 75.
Stokes average contains a 100 in that test average as well.
Of course but I was responding to the fact their Stokes only has one century in Tests. Look I like Woakes, but I think Stokes has more about him as a Test cricketer. I hope they both end up being great, but if I had to put my money on who will have the better Test career I think it'll be Stokes.
We could carry this discussion on for years let alone today........Woakes for me.....in three years time you can buy me a pint or three....or vice versa!!!!
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Dhoni definetly the cement for the Indian batting....12th half century v England
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This getting frustrating now.
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Hopefully we'll knock them over quickly after tea.
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At last that's sorted...148 all out.
If anyone interested the womens test score latest
England 92 & 202
India 114 & 88-2 require a further 98
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Bit annoying that they got those extra 50 runs after Bell's drop, but we need to bat well now.
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Result from Edgbaston today:
South Africa U19's 227 all out 48.1
England U19's 231-8 49.2
England win by 2 wkts with 4 balls remaining
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Cook just got away with one, he was stone dead LBW but it did look in real time like it pitched outside leg.
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Well done Sam Robson to make it through that tricky spell under pressure he did very well.
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A good day for England.
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A good interview with Woakesy as well, well rounded chap.
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A good interview with Woakesy as well, well rounded chap.
Villa fan too, so what would you expect!!
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Cook just got away with one, he was stone dead LBW but it did look in real time like it pitched outside leg.
They've only got themselves to blame for not allowing DRS.
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Cook just got away with one, he was stone dead LBW but it did look in real time like it pitched outside leg.
They've only got themselves to blame for not allowing DRS.
Going to go out on a limb, but I think India have got to have a look at themselves. With a few exceptions (Rahul Dravid being one) they were absolutely pathetic the last time the came here and after an initial decent start they have reverted to that level of performance this time around. It's almost as if they have the attitude "we're not used to these conditions so it doesn't really matter" and their away record shows that. They also seem to have a bit of a chippy attitude when things go against them (the whole DRS thing is a joke and it all reared up with the Anderson incident this series) and I'll never forget Dhoni bringing himself on to bowl on their last tour when they were on the receiving end of things (he petuantly took all his gear off and then put it back on before and after each over he bowled).
The Indian obsession with cricket fascinates me and I love their passion for the game. I also accept the players are superstars in their own country, but test series don't come around too often and I can't help but feel they have short changed fans (both English and Indian) on their recent visits here.
Saying that, go and watch them win this test now!!
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I'm with you, they don't deserve a five test series over here with the attitude they have got, give the five tests to Sri Lanka or New Zealand who at least might look like they care. Give India a couple of warm up tests before the Ashes, fuck 'em.
That said, it's given a load of our players a huge confidence boost, and now we have Woakes and Jordan firing as an added bonus.
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A good interview with Woakesy as well, well rounded chap.
Definite captain material.
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Robson gone for 37.
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I wanted Robson in the team early in the summer, but I fear he might just lack that Test quality. Who knows, he has time to come back but I doubt he'll be in the Caribbean in April.
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I wanted Robson in the team early in the summer, but I fear he might just lack that Test quality. Who knows, he has time to come back but I doubt he'll be in the Caribbean in April.
He'll have to score a lot of runs for Middlesex during the back end of the season.
I'm hopeful that Hales will take his chance in the 50 over side and score runs for Notts. He's probably the most talented opener in the country and we need someone more aggressive in the top order
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Steady morning and all ours.
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Another life for Cookie.
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I wanted Robson in the team early in the summer, but I fear he might just lack that Test quality. Who knows, he has time to come back but I doubt he'll be in the Caribbean in April.
While we're winning we can stick with him. A work in progress for sure.
He's a horrible player to watch though, even when he's in some nick he still looks like he's scratching around.
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Cook dropped again!
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Cook goes for 79.
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What I want from this innings is for Ballance to get another 100 and Moeen to get some runs.
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I think long term Ballance will be an even better number 3 than Trott, because he has the ability to vary his tempo.
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Jinxed him, but he's still an excellent player.
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Bell gone, we need Moeen to get some runs.
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Oh Moeen. We're starting to throw away our advantage here.
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Buttler and Root have largely recovered the situation here.
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A mini collapse aside anther good day for England. Ballance and Root played well. I like the solidity that Balance gives us. Another ton beckons for Root tomorrow, 23 years old and if he gets it, it will be his 5th test century. In Ballance & Root we've uncovered a couple of fine batsmen, all we need is an opener to partner Cook then we look pretty solid.
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We're pretty much set now.
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In Ballance & Root we've uncovered a couple of fine batsmen, all we need is an opener to partner Cook then we look pretty solid.
Ahem, who uncovered them? Lees will open the batting for England some time in the future too!
Smiley, winky thing.
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I am pleased for Peter Moores especially as I backed his come back.
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A mini collapse aside anther good day for England. Ballance and Root played well. I like the solidity that Balance gives us. Another ton beckons for Root tomorrow, 23 years old and if he gets it, it will be his 5th test century. In Ballance & Root we've uncovered a couple of fine batsmen, all we need is an opener to partner Cook then we look pretty solid.
I'd still start with Robson in the West Indies next April and then make the change for the New Zealand series before the Ashes if necessary. The rest of the batting line up looks pretty solid at the minute though Moeen has got out very cheaply in the last few innings. If his bowling continues to develop at the rate it has, is it conceivable that he could bat at eight, with someone else coming in at six?
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I am pleased for Peter Moores especially as I backed his come back.
Visionary stuff mate.
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In Ballance & Root we've uncovered a couple of fine batsmen, all we need is an opener to partner Cook then we look pretty solid.
Ahem, who uncovered them? Lees will open the batting for England some time in the future too!
Smiley, winky thing.
Derbyshire uncovered Ballance, before Yorkshire tapped him up ;)
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Lees will open the batting for England some time in the future too!
I could do it, but I prefer coming in at 3. I also offer (occasionally devastating, mostly catastrophic) leg spin. I once got Nicholas Parsons out, caught at slip off one that turned square that I managed to land on the pitch.
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Lees is a great prospect.
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Excellent 100 Joe.
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Lees will open the batting for England some time in the future too!
I could do it, but I prefer coming in at 3. I also offer (occasionally devastating, mostly catastrophic) leg spin. I once got Nicholas Parsons out, caught at slip off one that turned square that I managed to land on the pitch.
It's the Parsons wicket that first caught my eye. Not many could shift him.
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Bloody rubbish Root. You're a lucky chap, you should walk anyway...
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Fair play to Broad, considering what happened to him in the last game to be 28 from 12 shows some balls.
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Bloody rubbish Root. You're a lucky chap, you should walk anyway...
A no-ball is a no-ball, it's an illegal delivery, why should he walk?
Broad is in T20 mode.
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Lead now over 300 and we're going at over 4 an over. It's a long time since we scored at that rate in a test.
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Yeah it's good work.
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I think we should be declaring now.
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I think we should be declaring now.
I reckon they'll let Root get his 150 and then declare.
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Anderson out to a shocking decision.
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Bloody rubbish Root. You're a lucky chap, you should walk anyway...
A no-ball is a no-ball, it's an illegal delivery, why should he walk?
Broad is in T20 mode.
I wasn't being serious Dave. It's half what I expected to see on here, it's a bit of a bizarre thread if you read back through it, I think there have been calls at some stage for every single player to be dropped at some stage or other.
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Yeah but it's like a match thread for a Villa game there tends to be real highs and lows that are necessarily reflective of rational thought.
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I guess so, that's why I tend to avoid the match threads!
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Running through them again, Jordan bowling very nicely now.
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Shambolic run out, India have been absolutely shocking.
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Beyond poor from India. Wonder what Duncan Fletcher is making of it?
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94 all out, what a battering.
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Wonderful performance from England. In the last 3 tests I think we won every session.
As Michael Vaughan said on TMS, India should give up test cricket and concentrate on ODI's and let Ireland have a go at tests!
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Sunil Gavaskar -
- "If you do not want to be playing Test cricket for India, quit. Just play limited-overs cricket. You should not be embarrassing your country like that."
Ouch.
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Alastair Cook - I've been his biggest critic (apart from Shane Warne) but fair play to him, he's turned around his form but he's also turned around his captaincy, making much better, quicker decisions when needed, plus trusting his bowlers
Chris Woakes - he has been hugely unlucky through this series, apart from the 1st innings of the 4th Test, he has bowled very, very well
Chris Jordan - has bowled some absolute guff this series and for him to have an average of 22.3 compared to Woakes' 43.4 is massively unjust
Joe Root - he has it all
India - pathetic
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The difference between Woakes and Jordan is that when Jordan gets it right he's much more threatening. I like Woakes, but his movement when he's bowling comes too much from the arm rather than further down the pitch so he's easier to play.
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Agreed, but Jordan got a fair few wickets with rank bad balls.
Don't get me wrong, I like Jordan, a lot, but overall I think he has bowled very averagely most of this series.
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I remember thinking Freddie was a very unlucky bowler when he broke through and he turned out not bad.
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Freddie was a different type of bowler, as I say I like Woakes but he just doesn't seem to carry a massive threat a lot of the time. I think he'll be one of those players who comes in and out of the side.
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I hope he doesn't, I think he can make it, I also think that his batting could eventually outweigh his bowling.
Time will tell. I wouldn't drop him for anyone at the moment, Finn included.
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I hope he does well, but I just have a feeling on that. Finn will be one of our best and will be the leader of the attack in a couple of years.
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Woakes is a perfect 4th seamer, he's good enough to get a few wickets, he's a good fielder, he's a very good batsman and he's willing to listen to criticism and work on it (got called up, got called too slow, went away and added 4-5mph to his pace).
I'd be very upset if they don't stick with him for a while, he's a perfect choice for the role he's playing.
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I still think Stokes is going to be the long term choice and Woakes will cover for him if he's injured.
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Bloody rubbish Root. You're a lucky chap, you should walk anyway...
A no-ball is a no-ball, it's an illegal delivery, why should he walk?
Broad is in T20 mode.
I wasn't being serious Dave.
Oh right! Sorry!
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Right then, that's Test matches out of the way until next April and the countdown to the World Cup begins. Something tells me that India are going to be a bit of a different proposition in the shorter forms of the game, so it should be a good series.
I personally wouldn't have Cook in the ODI side and would give him a rest until the next test series (though I think they will play him). Broad needs an operation on his knee, so I would get that done as soon as possible so he is fully fit for the winter. I'd also consider resting Jimmy for this series with the World Cup in mind.
I'd probably go with something like:
Hales
Bell
Ballance
Root
Morgan (C)
Bopara
Buttler
Woakes
Jordan
Tredwell
Finn
The other option would be to use Moeen as the spinner instead of Tredwell and fit him somewhere in the batting line up (instead of Bopara maybe) with another bowler being added.
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I think I'd go with Stokes instead of Woakes in the ODI team, his game is well suited to the shorter formats and he needs to get used to international standard bowling.
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I think I'd go with Stokes instead of Woakes in the ODI team, his game is well suited to the shorter formats and he needs to get used to international standard bowling.
Wouldn't be opposed to that to be honest. He looked way off the pace earlier in the summer, but hopefully will come back with a point to prove. To be fair there are some decent options out there who probably all need a chance before the World Cup.
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I'd go with Stokes as well, also come the World Cup he'll have good memories of Australia.
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Gavaskar wasn't mincing his words yesterday was he. Quite fairly so as well.
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Glad Hales is in ODI squad, but I'm frustrated that Taylor and Vince aren't involved and confused as to why Bopara's gone.
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I will be bloody sick of one day cricket by the time the world cup comes along.
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Me too, Roy's another player who should have been in with a shout. I do think we're kind of putting Cook in as he's Test captain, I don't think he's one of the best ODI players.
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I'm surprised at Bopara's omission. He's the best finisher we've got.
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It's very weird in that he hasn't really been replaced, and was in good form. I do think we should be looking at the young guys like Hales, Taylor, Roy and Vince.
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I will be bloody sick of one day cricket by the time the world cup comes along.
I feel a bit guilty as for my birthday I was bought tickets for the one dayer at Headingley and to be honest I've no interest in it whatsoever. I'd sooner watch a day of county cricket.
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I will be bloody sick of one day cricket by the time the world cup comes along.
Me too. It's wrong that the last test of the summer finishes in mid-August and the next one is next April.
It's not that long ago that tests were scheduled in September. The 2005 Ashes finished on 12 September. I really don't like the way that one day cricket is eroding the traditional end to the English summer.
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I will be bloody sick of one day cricket by the time the world cup comes along.
Me too. It's wrong that the last test of the summer finishes in mid-August and the next one is next April.
It's not that long ago that tests were scheduled in September. The 2005 Ashes finished on 12 September. I really don't like the way that one day cricket is eroding the traditional end to the English summer.
I think it's because of the World Cup. I think we're playing Pakistan in the UAE next September / October.
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I'm surprised at Bopara's omission. He's the best finisher we've got.
Yeah I was surprised at that as well, as I thought he was pretty much set in that number six position and offers a different bowling option. I wonder if Moeen is going to bat there?
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Me too, Roy's another player who should have been in with a shout. I do think we're kind of putting Cook in as he's Test captain, I don't think he's one of the best ODI players.
Agree, I also don't think he should be in the ODI team let alone captaining it. He's going to play as he's the captain, but I just think he doesn't provide the dynamism required at the top of the order. For a few years now we've gone with players who go steadily along and don't really score at a fast rate in the first 30 overs. You would have thought the number of games that kind of thinking has cost us would have surely resulted in a change in tactics.
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I do like ODI's, but cricket is all about Tests for me and it's disappointing not to have a winter tour.
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I do like ODI's, but cricket is all about Tests for me and it's disappointing not to have a winter tour.
We've got 18 tests in the space of 10 months after the World Cup so plenty there for you to enjoy PW!!
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Yeah true although that's probably the other end of the scale!
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I do like ODI's, but cricket is all about Tests for me and it's disappointing not to have a winter tour.
We've got 18 tests in the space of 10 months after the World Cup so plenty there for you to enjoy PW!!
Which sums up how appalling the scheduling for international cricket is right now, 9 months without a test and then 18 in the next 10 months, that's just silly.
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I'll be curious to see how we go in the ODIs, but I really think we need to abandon our old conservative style. If I was picking the side it would be something like -
Hales
Vince
Taylor
Root
Morgan(C)
Buttler
Bopara
Ali
Jordan
Broad(if fit)
Finn
It would give us options and plenty of power. If Stokes could find some form I'd probably have him in for Bopara depending on the pitch.
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If we're not going to pick him I'd rather they didn't have Finn in the squad. This is just going to start chipping away at the confidence he's built up again.
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We won the toss and are bowling. Line up is:
Alastair Cook, Alex Hales, Ian Bell, Joe Root, Eoin Morgan, Jos Buttler, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes, Chris Jordan, James Tredwell, James Anderson
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When was the last time Finn had a bowl?
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When was the last time Finn had a bowl?
That's my concern, it's ridiculous that they're just having him trawl round with the squad. He needs to be playing or not be with the squad, no middle ground.
Good start from Woakes though.
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These could be a very important few months in the fledgling international career of young Christopher Woakes. He seems to be making a real breakthrough.
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'Ashtray' is back on duty as statistician for the ODIs.
I didn't realise that the expenses row was still rolling on
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10960302/BBC-Test-Match-Specials-Malcolm-Ashton-demoted-following-row-over-expenses.html
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Meltdown by Jordan. 5 wides in an over
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Horrendous stuff.
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I like Jordan, but they have got to sort his wide issue. It's becoming a problem now.
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These could be a very important few months in the fledgling international career of young Christopher Woakes. He seems to be making a real breakthrough.
Reasonable figures of 4-52 off 10 includes one over that went for 20. He seems to be growing into international cricket which is something I thought he would struggle to do. Well done Chris.
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Good effort from Woakes, in what overall was pretty poor.
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Good leave by Bell there...
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Pretty diabolical display. I really do think we need to look to the future and the likes of Cook and Bell aren't that for ODIs.
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Pretty diabolical display. I really do think we need to look to the future and the likes of Cook and Bell aren't that for ODIs.
It'd prolong their test careers too.
I just can't get worked up about ODI's. I want England to win but I'm pretty meh about it all.
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Sounds terrible at Leeds.The game has been stopped because a man has collapsed in one of the stands.
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Pretty diabolical display. I really do think we need to look to the future and the likes of Cook and Bell aren't that for ODIs.
Agree, especially when there have been a number of players scoring big runs in domestic cricket on a regular basis (Roy, Vince, Taylor etc). We just can't seem to get the balance right in ODI cricket.
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Hales needs to work on that sweep, that's twice he's got out to the same shot.
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Our classic middle overs issue we're going nowhere at the moment.
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England losing wickets, not scoring against spinners in the middle overs we just never seem to learn.
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Ian Bell looking very classy again. No fuss, just picking off easy singles.
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Garbage our upper and middle order is all wrong, there is no imagination or urgency against the spinner.
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Garbage our upper and middle order is all wrong, there is no imagination or urgency against the spinner.
I think you have to give due consideration to the quality of the spinners we are facing here, not just about how crap you think we are, if they start smashing spinners will get out.
Cook & Hales started very well against the new ball. Bell is probably the best player of spin in the side but many on here want him out of the side. So who do we replace him with.
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Garbage our upper and middle order is all wrong, there is no imagination or urgency against the spinner.
I think you have to give due consideration to the quality of the spinners we are facing here, not just about how crap you think we are, if they start smashing spinners will get out.
Cook & Hales started very well against the new ball. Bell is probably the best player of spin in the side but many on here want him out of the side. So who do we replace him with.
Two of them are part time spinners at best. We panic against any spin bowlers. We are woeful in the short form of the game.
They need to start dominating bowlers, most of them are static at the crease with no real footwork against spin. Utterly pathetic.
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I reckon for the next match, Cook should go to the umpire 30 minutes before the start with 9 sick notes (Bell and Woakes excepted). My mom said we shouldn't do games today but we have bought some other boys who can fill in. Then roll out the Bears
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I really can't get worked up or upset about England losing in yet another one day series that nobody will remember in 3 months time.
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I think it's generally accepted outside the England side itself that we are nearly always behind the curve when it comes to ODIs. For years we have made a mess of the middle overs and particularly against spin. The batting unit is just wrong,you can't have Cook, Bell and Root as 3 of the top 4. There just isn't enough power for this format.
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Garbage our upper and middle order is all wrong, there is no imagination or urgency against the spinner.
I think you have to give due consideration to the quality of the spinners we are facing here, not just about how crap you think we are, if they start smashing spinners will get out.
Cook & Hales started very well against the new ball. Bell is probably the best player of spin in the side but many on here want him out of the side. So who do we replace him with.
The test series proved that India don't have top class spinners.
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Completely agree, and also we know that it could be any spinner and England would go into their shell in the middle overs. The England ODI management seems to have been obsessed by stats for years and there seems to be a lack of responsibility and reaction to the match situation.
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I think it's generally accepted outside the England side itself that we are nearly always behind the curve when it comes to ODIs. For years we have made a mess of the middle overs and particularly against spin. The batting unit is just wrong,you can't have Cook, Bell and Root as 3 of the top 4. There just isn't enough power for this format.
Totally agree. We've still got the outdated mindset of patting the ball around for 40 overs and then hitting out in the last ten. I've enjoyed the 50 over domestic tournament so far and its been apparent how different the teams have approached the game in that tournament (there have been so many scores of over 300). Hales has been given a chance, but this would have been the ideal opportunity to have a look at the likes of Jason Roy, James Vince, James Taylor etc., but no, we stick with the tried and tested.
Nasser Hussain made a good point in commentary as well about the fact that many of the players went straight from test match cricket into ODIs without playing any domestic cricket in that format. As a Bears fan, I know Bell and Woakes certainly had a couple of opportunities to play in the 50 over tournament before the internationals started.
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We shouldn't be picking the ODI team from Test form really, they're very different games.
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I think it's generally accepted outside the England side itself that we are nearly always behind the curve when it comes to ODIs. For years we have made a mess of the middle overs and particularly against spin. The batting unit is just wrong,you can't have Cook, Bell and Root as 3 of the top 4. There just isn't enough power for this format.
Totally agree. We've still got the outdated mindset of patting the ball around for 40 overs and then hitting out in the last ten. I've enjoyed the 50 over domestic tournament so far and its been apparent how different the teams have approached the game in that tournament (there have been so many scores of over 300). Hales has been given a chance, but this would have been the ideal opportunity to have a look at the likes of Jason Roy, James Vince, James Taylor etc., but no, we stick with the tried and tested.
Nasser Hussain made a good point in commentary as well about the fact that many of the players went straight from test match cricket into ODIs without playing any domestic cricket in that format. As a Bears fan, I know Bell and Woakes certainly had a couple of opportunities to play in the 50 over tournament before the internationals started.
Tried, tested and failed. That's the weirdest thing, if we'd had success with our method in the past I could get it, but we've never won a 50 over tournament. It's ridiculous that we keep on continuing with the same tactics.
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I like Moeen but to drop Tredwell seems very harsh when he's bowled well. I just hope Moeen can add some impetus to our batting.
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Taylor also deserves a shot in the side, he can play the situation really well.
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I like Moeen but to drop Tredwell seems very harsh when he's bowled well. I just hope Moeen can add some impetus to our batting.
I read the changes somewhat differently. Ballance is in for Bell who is injured. Moeen Ali replaces Stokes and Gurney replaces Treadwell. Treadwell is unlucky to be dropped but with one eye on the future they need to give Gurney more match time.
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I'm not a fan of Joe Root at 5 in the one day team.
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Awful start this time, I've got plenty of time for Hales but Cook really is on borrowed time in this ODI team. We just are so behind the curve and allow teams to bowl at us rather than putting the bowlers under pressure.
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I'm starting to think us getting a thumping in this ODI series might be the best thing for us. The selectors need to bite the bullet and move England towards how ODIs are played these days. Get our young hitters in the side and play with freedom.
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Awful start this time, I've got plenty of time for Hales but Cook really is on borrowed time in this ODI team. We just are so behind the curve and allow teams to bowl at us rather than putting the bowlers under pressure.
I'm starting to think us getting a thumping in this ODI series might be the best thing for us. The selectors need to bite the bullet and move England towards how ODIs are played these days. Get our young hitters in the side and play with freedom.
Oooh, that's weird, it's like you've been recording me in the pub. Said both of those things almost verbatim...
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The strangest thing is that I could completely understand our continued cautious tactics if we'd be successful using them in the past. However we haven't, we've never won a 50 over trophy of any note. So you'd have thought it would be fairly obvious that caution doesn't work and we need to be a lot more proactive. It's staggering that English cricket seems to willfully ignore our constant failures in this format.
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Main batsmen fail again, lets just hope Moeen and Jos can save us.
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Nice to see Moeen understands that you have to be proactive and the spinners need to go.
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sounds like Buttler got a bad decision...:(
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Yeah sounds like it. However whatever happens the England management and team need to look at how Moeen has played. This is how you play a one day innings, controlled aggression. He's attacked the bowlers to try and wrestle the initiative back. He'll probably be dropped for being too cavalier now.
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206 ao....not nearly enough..:(
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Nope other than Moeen it's another pretty pathetic batting display. Moeen showed how you should play an ODI innings.
As an aside he'll probably get a hat trick now but I don't think Gurney is an international player. His bowling is ok, but his batting and fielding are both atrocious.
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At least India are giving us a lesson as to how to play ODIs.
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This is becoming embarrassing at the moment.
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I have turned the radio off at 70/0.........
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Yeah sounds like it. However whatever happens the England management and team need to look at how Moeen has played. This is how you play a one day innings, controlled aggression. He's attacked the bowlers to try and wrestle the initiative back. He'll probably be dropped for being too cavalier now.
Think Alec Stewart summed it perfectly on TMS before the game when he said that England are still employing 1990's tactics in ODIs.
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Well they're really putting us to the sword now, but to be honest this should be good for us in the long run. Cook and Moores can't keep coming out and saying our game plan is right, because it's plain for everyone to see that it's not. This team is completely wrong. The batting and bowling needs an overhaul and the team needs a change in philosophy as to how to approach the game.
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I think Swann has summed it up nicely -
- "If the England management, captain and selectors cannot see there is a burning issue that needs to be changed, then I am worried, angry and sad. If they start spouting rubbish about 'not executing our plans' then we really should be worried because sanity is not prevailing."
I'm hoping Cook isn't as off in his post match interview today, because if he is he's in total denial.
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A 9 wicket loss with 117 balls to spare really does sum us up at the moment.
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That is about as big of a thrashing as is possible.
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I was there today. Great view, great company, great weather, great few beers, just a shame about the match!
We were shocking and looked beaten from the off. The only surprise was that India actually lost a wicket given our poor bowling attack.
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What I find most annoying about England in ODIs is that not only do we not play the game how every other side does but we don't even play to our strengths, if we were struggling in the field with a slip or 2 and trying to get edges I'd see the logic in it even if it was wrong, but we field at the edge of the circle and gift singles so the score keeps ticking and we offer very little threat, so when they decide to go after us they have wickets in hand and a decent total to start from. I'd rather get a few close fielders in catching positions and try to get them playing over the top earlier, we need to stop letting teams get to 160-180 for 1-2 after 30 overs, you just don't win games from that position (or at least not without something spectacular happening).
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I think there needs to be a complete change in mentality to the game and we need to be a lot more aggressive. You reduce pressure by putting pressure back on the other team and at the moment England do none of that. It's frustrating because it's so obvious that England's approach just does not work and has not worked for the last 20 years. I think my team would be something like -
Hales
Vince
Ballance
Morgan(captain)
Taylor/Roy
Buttler
Bopara
Ali
Willey
Broad
Finn
I think that keeps some experienced players in but also there's a good group of young exciting cricketers. I've included Willey as he's looks a real prospect and is a left arm bowler as well, which adds variety to our attack.
Edit - Amended to give the option of Taylor.
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Now's not the time for the sweeping team changes you have there, that should be post world cup. The change we need to focus on for now is tactical, we need to at least approach the games the right way, get things moving in the right direction for the world cup, and then bring the new players in to an environment designed for them. Hales, for example, looks like he's been told to play it safe early on, which is totally against the point of having him in the side. He should be told to look to rotate the strike and punish the bad balls, a player like him should be going for a run a ball in the first powerplay as a minimum.
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how Bopara is not playing I don't know....Cook has to go and our ODI mentality has to change.
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Our top county one day sides would comfortably beat the current England squad. These teams have evolved their tactics and have produced a generation of young, fearless one day/T20 Cricketers. What the hell happens when they get a one day/T20 international call up is a mystery.
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Now's not the time for the sweeping team changes you have there, that should be post world cup. The change we need to focus on for now is tactical, we need to at least approach the games the right way, get things moving in the right direction for the world cup, and then bring the new players in to an environment designed for them. Hales, for example, looks like he's been told to play it safe early on, which is totally against the point of having him in the side. He should be told to look to rotate the strike and punish the bad balls, a player like him should be going for a run a ball in the first powerplay as a minimum.
I don't subscribe to the belief that you can't make wholesale changes to a side before a World Cup. The core of this side has lost their last 5 ODI series. I agree that there needs to be a complete change in philosophy and tactics as regards to how we approach the game. However I think the players I've mentioned are far more capable of achieving that.
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Actually I'd be tempted to have Taylor in and about the squad as well, he's been treated terribly by England.
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Our top county one day sides would comfortably beat the current England squad. These teams have evolved their tactics and have produced a generation of young, fearless one day/T20 Cricketers. What the hell happens when they get a one day/T20 international call up is a mystery.
They get shackled, that's my point, we need to address the whole approach to the short forms of the sport and learn to counter-attack and build pressure as the batting side but also learn how to restrict other teams from scoring at will. If we were getting 1 or the other right I'd be less upset but we're rubbish with bat and ball right now, despite having players who are capable of better.
Look at Ian Bell for example, he has a T20 strike rate, for club and country, of 115% at an average of around 25, at test level he averages nearly 50, he has the tools to adapt to ODI cricket and be a lynchpin of the side but it just hasn't happened, that's not a talent issue, it's a tactical problem. Cook has a similarly good record in the long form and in T20 (at county level, he's barely played that form for England). There's calls for them to be dropped but that's not focusing on the real problem, which is that in terms on coaching, captaincy and general understanding we don't know how to bat in the 50over game any more (I think we're ok in the T20 with the bat but the bowling is naive).
With the ball the problem is the same as the test side had, we're far too passive, that's a Cook issue more than anything else, he needs to learn how to be aggressive when the pitch/ball isn't doing all the work for him. In the test side we got over it by getting some really aggressive spells from the bowlers and reacting by crowding the batbut you can't do that in ODIs.
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You make some valid points Paul. Cook and Bell should be the engine of the England ODI side and they're not which is frustrating.
We never, ever learn from past mistakes. We go to a world cup, perform badly and start a performance review. We tweak a couple of things and four years later we perform badly yet again at a major tournament and the cycle starts all over again with another performance review.
Maybe our players are suffering because of a lack of exposure to the IPL. Sides regularly score 300+ in the 50 over format and in part this is down to the T20 effect. Central contracts do prevent our top players from appearing in the IPL - it was certainly always a gripe for KP - and to loosen the grip would require a rejigging of the home International calendar. Having said that the early season opponents are usually an appetizer for the summer's main attraction and are generally poorly supported anyway. The ECB will not give up the revenue that is generated from these poorly attended games.
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Just found this that Pietersen posted on social media yesterday:
Alex Hales, Jason Roy, Moeen Ali, Ravi Bopara, Eoin Morgan (c), Rikkie Clarke, Jos Buttler, Adil Rashid, Stuart Broad, James Anderson, Finn. Name me a better ODI team for ENG pls?
Not a bad side that!
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What I find most annoying about England in ODIs is that not only do we not play the game how every other side does but we don't even play to our strengths, if we were struggling in the field with a slip or 2 and trying to get edges I'd see the logic in it even if it was wrong, but we field at the edge of the circle and gift singles so the score keeps ticking and we offer very little threat, so when they decide to go after us they have wickets in hand and a decent total to start from. I'd rather get a few close fielders in catching positions and try to get them playing over the top earlier, we need to stop letting teams get to 160-180 for 1-2 after 30 overs, you just don't win games from that position (or at least not without something spectacular happening).
To follow on fromn this England are very reactionary. After Sri Lanka and Jayasuriya showed the way to go with pinch hitting at the top of the innings in the 90s it took us a further 10 years to give it a go. We then flogged it and decided to go to bits and pieces cricketers although other teams had gone from pinch hitting to one-day specialists who were picked to do certain jobs. One-day captains were also able to respond to not only how the game was going but to also set the tone for a 50 overs in the field. We never do the same. Now, with sides showing more powerful and improvisation batting throughout their teams we are only slowly coming to terms with it. We need to see more of the likes of Roy, Vince, Taylor, Ali, Ballance and the less of Cook and Bell et al.
When we did look different and proactive was when we won the 20/20 a few years back. We were innovative. But it was almost as if we were embarrassed by it because we've gone back into our set ways. I don't really care about 20/20 but the powers that be should realise that there are 3 formats and not just test cricket and should cut their cloth accordingly. Starting by the choice of captain.
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Just found this that Pietersen posted on social media yesterday:
Alex Hales, Jason Roy, Moeen Ali, Ravi Bopara, Eoin Morgan (c), Rikkie Clarke, Jos Buttler, Adil Rashid, Stuart Broad, James Anderson, Finn. Name me a better ODI team for ENG pls?
Not a bad side that!
With that side you will either be 50 odd in no time or 0-2 though.
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I wouldn't mind if England were reactionary but we're not even that. It's been clear for years that the way we approach one day cricket is far too conservative. Currently we bat the first 10 overs of powerplay and once those powerplay overs are finished we just knock it around. We don't attack and put pressure on the opposition. Two examples in county cricket when Alex Hales gets going he just keeps going and doesn't worry about wickets falling at the other end. In one serried with England you can see wickets fall and he goes into his shell. That directive clearly comes from the dressing room, it's go into a bunker rather than counter attack. The other example is Morgan, he came in and was for a while a devestating and unconventional batsmen. However over time he's got more conservative and his form has dipped. It is clearly a culture of conservativism and fear of failure.
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Can we have a new vote? Should Cook still be captain?
Options:
Yes, test only.
Yes, test and one days.
No, time for someone new in both formats.
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Test only.
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Just found this that Pietersen posted on social media yesterday:
Alex Hales, Jason Roy, Moeen Ali, Ravi Bopara, Eoin Morgan (c), Rikkie Clarke, Jos Buttler, Adil Rashid, Stuart Broad, James Anderson, Finn. Name me a better ODI team for ENG pls?
Not a bad side that!
With that side you will either be 50 odd in no time or 0-2 though.
Take Rashid out for Ballance, and you'd probably be good to go for the World Cup.
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England's main problem though is they see 50-over cricket as a step down from Test matches, rather than a step up from T20, as every other country does.
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Can we have a new vote? Should Cook still be captain?
Options:
Yes, test only.
Yes, test and one days.
No, time for someone new in both formats.
Not sure how to get it on a poll? Can we get a new poll rather than the one that is currently running?
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England's main problem though is they see 50-over cricket as a step down from Test matches, rather than a step up from T20, as every other country does.
That's a very good point. To be honest, I don't think we've ever replaced Marcus Trescothick at the top of the order in ODI cricket. He could open in every format of the game and was the real cornerstone who was able to adapt accordingly. Having Cook in the ODI side and as captain just sends out the wrong message from the start and when it was announced, it was clear it was just going to be more of the same. I worry about Anderson and Woakes in ODI cricket because if the ball is not swinging, they are both likely to be targeted. When fit, I wonder whether we would be better going with the pacier options of Broad, Finn and Jordan.
Yet again we are just a few months away from a World Cup and seem to have no obvious ideas regarding team selection or game plan. It's the same with football.
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Going nowhere again.
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Going nowhere again.
At last we're showing some fight. Root and Buttler have taken 80 off 10 overs. Still nowhere near enough runs though.
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A fine knock by young Joe. Bring 100 up with a fine 6 ...can't be bad.
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Good from Root not only a 100 but most importantly it was at a strike rate of over 100.
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At last a reasonable total!
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Good effort from Stokes at the end there.
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Good from Root not only a 100 but most importantly it was at a strike rate of over 100.
big innings from Buttler as well, the 2 of them turned it from what was looking like 250 to pushing 300. Now Cook needs to show some courage and go for wickets, if he plays the passive containing game that he normally does and they get to 150-160 with wickets in hand and 15-20 overs then they'll chase this down, if we can get some wickets early this starts to look like a big target.
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We were busier with the bat today, he didn't get a score today but I think Ali's attitude helped the team be more free.
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I think we'll win this, but I hope it doesn't give the selectors and coaching staff the opportunity to ignore our problems.
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Moeen bowled an excellent spell, his bowling has come on so much.
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Finn has bowled nicely as well and Stokes has got his yorkers in.
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A win and some lessons to learn, bat positively and bowl to get batsmen out.
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Thoroughly enjoyed my day at the cricket, highlight being Root's brilliant innings. Funniest moment was when Anderson was fielding in front of a load of India supporters and was greeted with mass chanting of 'Yorkshire', even Jimmy smiled.
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Some interesting comments by Ganguly after the match. There have been numerous calls (including myself) for England to be more attacking at the top of the order and maybe look to bring in players with that mindset. It was interesting then to hear Ganguly say almost the opposite and for him to say that Hales in particular needs to be less attacking. He was basically saying that the top four should be looking to build a a platform up to about 35 overs and then for the likes of Morgan and Buttler to come in and really attack from that point (I think today showed just how important an innings like Joe Root's is to compiling a big score). He also said that he thought Moeen was too high at three, which begs the question why Ballance hasn't been playing.
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Ali can play three in ODI's I think, he's a pure striker.
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Watching Taylor today and his stats in one day cricket this year, it's bonkers that he's not in the squad.
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Pleased to see Root, Ballance and Bresnan have been given clearance to play in the remaining two matches, although I think Bresnan is injured at the moment.
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Ali can play three in ODI's I think, he's a pure striker.
Don't see it myself Paul. Six or seven maybe. I can't see why Balance hasn't played at three in this series.
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Off to Edgbaston shortly to catch England v South Africa and then England v India. Hope to enjoy two full competitive games.
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I really hope Taylor plays today.
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Some top class fielding in the Women's T20 so far, shame there aren't more in the crowd to appreciate it.
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Good start but I find it ridiculous that Taylor and to a lesser extent Stokes aren't in the team. They seem to have something against Taylor.
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Indian fans booing Moeen, pretty poor.
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Oh dear Moeen, not a good one.
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Hales goes for 40 but good effort.
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We're getting bogged down against spinners, big surprise.
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The real Morgan has returned, there you go England let him play his game how he plays it.
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Well Morgan has suddenly pushed himself forward to be ODI captain with that knock. Excellent finish from Bopara as well, why he wasn't in the ODI side is beyond me.
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This is the cricket version of the Luke Haines thread today.
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Indian fans booing Moeen, pretty poor.
I was listening to TMS when that happened. Isa Guha was on air and commented how well she was received in India as an Asian woman playing for England. I've always found Indian cricket fans to be jingoistic but good natured. It's a real shame that Moeen was booed.
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Great game. Excellent to see Morgan back to his best, and I think he should be the ODI captain. Bopara has to be in the ODI team. Gurney bowled well but I'm not sure he's an international cricketer his batting and fielding are just too poor.
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First ball aside, Woakes' last over was pretty good. He has really developed this year.
That's the end of the International summer. At times we've been awful but came good in the end. We need a radical overhaul of our approach to 50 over cricket, which should start with a new captain - Morgan - and Cook and Bell replaced by Roy and Taylor.
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First ball aside, Woakes' last over was pretty good. He has really developed this year.
That's the end of the International summer. At times we've been awful but came good in the end. We need a radical overhaul of our approach to 50 over cricket, which should start with a new captain - Morgan - and Cook and Bell replaced by Roy and Taylor.
Agree with that I think, and I want Bopara in the team as well.
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No way should Bell be dropped!.... England's finest batsman.
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Bell should be dropped and be solely playing Test cricket for the last years of his career.
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Really good game today. Didn't realise it was on until I got a call from my lad at 2.45 and he mentioned the traffic on the Pershore Road. Good to see a game that ebbed and flowed so well with both sides looking like they were on top at various times and a tie looking on the cards with three balls left.
Shame about Moeen being booed but I'm sure he can handle it.
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Really good game today. Didn't realise it was on until I got a call from my lad at 2.45 and he mentioned the traffic on the Pershore Road. Good to see a game that ebbed and flowed so well with both sides looking like they were on top at various times and a tie looking on the cards with three balls left.
Shame about Moeen being booed but I'm sure he can handle it.
Strange comment that Chris. Is it OK for sportsmen to be booed because of their background if they can "handle it"? It is pretty pathetic, especially as many of those booing were probably born in the same city as Moeen anyway.
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He didn't get any abuse at Headingley, strange and sad that he got it today.
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Especially as he's a local lad. The booing was a disgrace.
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I was in the Pavilion stand fairly high up. The large section of Indian supporters to our right booed both Moeen and Ravi constantly. There wasn't any abuse other than both being targeted for choosing England I think. Ravi got booed when he came out to bat. However I thought that was a bit silly as both are English born and only right that if they are good enough they should play for England. I didn't think there was any racist or religious element to booing but I guess racist could be argued as both were being targeted because they were playing for England specially by those who were not only born here themselves but probably their parents as well. Great match.
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I was in the Pavilion stand fairly high up. The large section of Indian supporters to our right booed both Moeen and Ravi constantly. There wasn't any abuse other than both being targeted for choosing England I think. Ravi got booed when he came out to bat. However I thought that was a bit silly as both are English born and only right that if they are good enough they should play for England. I didn't think there was any racist or religious element to booing but I guess racist could be argued as both were being targeted because they were playing for England specially by those who were not only born here themselves but probably their parents as well. Great match.
I thought Moeen was from a Pakistani background and that might have something to do with the booing, but if Ravi was getting it as well then I guess that there was something else involved. I can't recall Monty ever getting that kind of treatment though and remember being treated like a hero when he played for England in India.
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Well Morgan has suddenly pushed himself forward to be ODI captain with that knock. Excellent finish from Bopara as well, why he wasn't in the ODI side is beyond me.
I was surprised when he was left out the ODI squad, as I felt he had been producing at number six and offered a different bowling option as well. I wonder if him and Moores had previous from when the latter was coach before.
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I was in the Pavilion stand fairly high up. The large section of Indian supporters to our right booed both Moeen and Ravi constantly. There wasn't any abuse other than both being targeted for choosing England I think. Ravi got booed when he came out to bat. However I thought that was a bit silly as both are English born and only right that if they are good enough they should play for England. I didn't think there was any racist or religious element to booing but I guess racist could be argued as both were being targeted because they were playing for England specially by those who were not only born here themselves but probably their parents as well. Great match.
Are you kidding me ? Of course it's racist. They're being booed because they're British born of Asian extraction who have chosen to play for England.
Can you imagine the fuss if the people booing them wore England shirts rather than India ?
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caucasians booing caucasians of the same colour can barely touch the racist seismograph, surely?
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caucasians booing caucasians of the same colour can barely touch the racist seismograph, surely?
Ah, so UKIP talking about massive Romanian and Bulgarian immigration *isn't* racist now ? Because hey, we're all caucasian, so its fine, right ?
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Well unless you'd class Bulgarians or Romanians as a race, then no it's not racist. It may be bigoted or ignorant, but not racist.
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Well unless you'd class Bulgarians or Romanians as a race, then no it's not racist. It may be bigoted or ignorant, but not racist.
If that were consistently applied across the media, the country would be a less confused place.
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Can you imagine the fuss if the people booing them wore England shirts rather than India ?
Now that's completely different. That would be rejection saying you don't belong to us where as today I thought it was envy saying why are you not playing for us.
However as I said the people who were booing should be supporting England and Ravi and Moeen and not India and Dhoni and Co.
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Now the internationals are over for the summer, I thought this would be a good chance for some reflections.
Positives
The emergence of Gary Ballance at number three, especially as I thought Trott would be very hard to replace
The continued development of Joe Root. Looks comfortable in the middle order and is scoring big runs
Joss Buttler stepping into the team and contributing immediately with gloves and bat
The emergence of Moeen Ali as a frontline spinning option. Amazing stuff really
Broad and Anderson proving they are still world class operators
Steven Finn's comeback after having such a terrible time in the winter
Negatives
Still haven't really found an automatic opening partner for Cook. Robson's good start to the summer faded
Ben Stokes didn't continue his Ashes form. He's still young so hopefully he can become a genuine all-rounder in time
Yet again we had a slow start to both test series.
The ODI team looks nowhere near settled and we're only a few months from the World Cup
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You forgot the positive:
Cook recovering brilliantly as captain.
And the negative:
Cook still looking shaky in his captaincy.
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caucasians booing caucasians of the same colour can barely touch the racist seismograph, surely?
Well unless you'd class Bulgarians or Romanians as a race, then no it's not racist. It may be bigoted or ignorant, but not racist.
It almost sounds like you are excusing such behaviour Peter.
Yes we know that anti-East European rhetoric isn't strictly racism but that is only semantics really. They may be of the same race as us but the systematic denigration of the peoples of certain countries is exactly the same thing as racism in my book.
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You forgot the positive:
Cook recovering brilliantly as captain.
And the negative:
Cook still looking shaky in his captaincy.
Kind of cancelled each other out, so weren't included!! Still not sure how much the reversal in form against India had to do with Cook's captaincy or how bad the Indians were. The jury on Cook as captain is still out for me.
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caucasians booing caucasians of the same colour can barely touch the racist seismograph, surely?
Well unless you'd class Bulgarians or Romanians as a race, then no it's not racist. It may be bigoted or ignorant, but not racist.
It almost sounds like you are excusing such behaviour Peter.
Yes we know that anti-East European rhetoric isn't strictly racism but that is only semantics really. They may be of the same race as us but the systematic denigration of the peoples of certain countries is exactly the same thing as racism in my book.
Also what denotes a difference in race in quantifiable terms? Racism is a heavily loaded term but the underlying concept, as said, applies to any situation where you make assumption about people based on their origins.
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caucasians booing caucasians of the same colour can barely touch the racist seismograph, surely?
Well unless you'd class Bulgarians or Romanians as a race, then no it's not racist. It may be bigoted or ignorant, but not racist.
It almost sounds like you are excusing such behaviour Peter.
Yes we know that anti-East European rhetoric isn't strictly racism but that is only semantics really. They may be of the same race as us but the systematic denigration of the peoples of certain countries is exactly the same thing as racism in my book.
Also what denotes a difference in race in quantifiable terms? Racism is a heavily loaded term but the underlying concept, as said, applies to any situation where you make assumption about people based on their origins.
Hopefully we can get back to the cricket discussion soon, but while we're on this, does this apply to every origin? The only reason I ask is that when Diane Abbott made that remark a couple of years ago about "white people", there was a clamour to suggest that not only was it not racist, but that ethnic minorities can't be deemed racist. All very confusing!!
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There were three lads sat behind me at the cricket on Friday, all of Asian descent. One of the guys was supporting India, another England and the third guy chopped and changed throughout the day and was told by one of his mates he was doing his head in as he couldn't work out who he was supporting. As the day wore on and they consumed more drink it was quite entertaining hearing him confuse himself as he cheered every wicket and every boundary and stating 'we' were going to win before admitting he didn't know who he was supporting.
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I agree 'racism' is probably broader than literally meaning discriminating against someone just for being a different race. In any case what ever term you want to label it with, be it racism, ignorance or whatever it's still unacceptable.
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Ajmal suspended by ICC. They are cracking down on spinners with questionable actions.
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Ajmal suspended by ICC. They are cracking down on spinners with questionable actions.
Don't get this one, as Ajmal has been around for years.
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Yes he has been around for years but as players limbs get older they are less flexible and very intricate bowling actions become very difficult to deliver properly and that deterioration leads to suspect action.
A great bowler but spinning unfortunately take a high toll on shoulder, elbow, wrist and fingers.
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Yes he has been around for years but as players limbs get older they are less flexible and very intricate bowling actions become very difficult to deliver properly and that deterioration leads to suspect action.
A great bowler but spinning unfortunately take a high toll on shoulder, elbow, wrist and fingers.
Or he has always been illegal and the ICC are finally beginning to get tough on it?
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Yes he has been around for years but as players limbs get older they are less flexible and very intricate bowling actions become very difficult to deliver properly and that deterioration leads to suspect action.
A great bowler but spinning unfortunately take a high toll on shoulder, elbow, wrist and fingers.
Good points and it looks like it could well be the end of his international career. Strange how it only applies to international cricket though and not the domestic game. Would have thought it would be a blanket ban.
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It was the same with Senanayake remember, he'd been around for a few years and had his action reviewed twice before but was only banned after a review this summer, I think all 3 of his reviews will have been borderline as even early footage of him shows his action to be suspect.
The age and stiffness of joints/limbs thing is important, a borderline action for a 21 year old can quite easily become illegal 10 years later after thousands of deliveries have been bowled and all had an impact. It's not just spinners either, quicks tend to become more upright as they get older because their back, shoulders and ribs can't get into the same position any more. For most it's not a big problems because they go from having their arm almost straight up so they actually become ineffective long before they become illegal. Someone like Malinga however will have far more problems. Even this summer there were a fair few from him that, to my eye, were below the horizontal, that's just going to become more and more common and I really wouldn't be surprised to see him called up for a lot of deliveries in the next couple of years, he's 31 now and I can't see him still playing much after 33/34.
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Wasn't Ajmal previously banned and changed his action to what it is now?
Also, I can understand the 15% degree bend rule but that should only apply to fast bowlers who can cause serious damage, which is why the rule was introduced in the first place, to avoid injury. Spinners should get more leeway and anyway the ICC should look at how quicks chuck their bouncers rather than worry about slow bowlers and 15% of bending of the elbow.
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Got priority tickets for Ashes tickets at Edgbaston so just looking at prices now....81 quid?! Have all the cheapish tickets gone as that seems the price in most areas. Can't remember what I paid in 2009.
Tempted to just hope there's a bit of rain and go on day 5 which stands at 26 quid currently although probably best to wait until when it actually starts rather than get them now.
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Got priority tickets for Ashes tickets at Edgbaston so just looking at prices now....81 quid?! Have all the cheapish tickets gone as that seems the price in most areas. Can't remember what I paid in 2009.
Tempted to just hope there's a bit of rain and go on day 5 which stands at 26 quid currently although probably best to wait until when it actually starts rather than get them now.
I too got mine during the week at Northants game....Wednesday & Saturday Skyline £86 and Thursday & Friday Block 9 £81 each.....ridiculous prices....Block 9 virtually sold out 10 months ahead of the match.
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Mine were £71 in the Stanley Barnes stand front row so quite pleased though do agree the prices are a bit steep - will still sell out despite this
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Struggling to understand how Andrew Gale can be accused of racial abuse when calling Prince a Kolpak fucker.
Potty.
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Struggling to understand how Andrew Gale can be accused of racial abuse when calling Prince a Kolpak fucker.
Potty.
Considering the ECB pulled out all the stops to back Jimmy Anderson on more than one occasion it will be interesting to see how they can justify this when Ashwell Prince says that he did not consider Andrew Gale's abusive comments to be racist.
I'd love Yorkshire to tell them to do one next time they call any of our players up.
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Struggling to understand how Andrew Gale can be accused of racial abuse when calling Prince a Kolpak fucker.
Potty.
I think it's the 'fuck off home' they will be doing him for.
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Struggling to understand how Andrew Gale can be accused of racial abuse when calling Prince a Kolpak fucker.
Potty.
I think it's the 'fuck off home' they will be doing him for.
But surely that's only an extension, albeit straight from the playground, of Primce's original "fuck off back to cover point"?
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Struck me that Gale was using an expletive ridden of the argument many have made regarding Kolpaks....the one the ECB tried to crack down on by weighting funding based on homegrown players.
They've made themselves look stupid and deprived a captain of the chance to lift the trophy.
I swear our sports governing bodies are trying to out do each other for stupidity
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Cook keeps his place for tour of Sri Lanka, not sure about that. Although I'm pleased Ravi is back and finally they've called up Taylor.
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Not sure why Balance isn't in the squad, he's an equally good one day player.
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No idea there's a lot of cluttered thinking in our selections at the moment.
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Cook keeps his place for tour of Sri Lanka, not sure about that. Although I'm pleased Ravi is back and finally they've called up Taylor.
Really don't see why they dropped Bopara for the Indian series only to now recall him for the SL ODI tour.
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Highlights the cluttered thing quite well.
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Hales
Bell
Ballance
Root
Buttler
Ali
Woakes/Bopara
Tredwell
Stokes
Jordan/Broad
Anderson
either Bell or Root to Captain.
plenty of batting(not sure of a order) and plenty of bowling options. 4 pace bowlers and if needed 4 spin/part time spin
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Taylor needs to be in the team, as does Morgan.
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I'm with the doc on this one, except I'd have the 6 spot listed as Ali/Morgan.
I'm really not convinced by Taylor, he's great at scoring big against poor bowling but I don't think he's ready for international cricket yet. For me he's an option to replace Bell after the world cup but I just can't see a spot for him before that.
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Of the squad selected my team would be -
Hales
Bell
Taylor
Root
Morgan
Ali
Buttler
Bopara
Stokes
Jordan
Anderson
But if I were picking in general I'd have Vince in for Bell and Broad in for Stokes/Jordan.
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Oh or Finn in place of Jordan if he gets his form fully back.
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Well Cook's going to be playing so any team needs to have him in it
Cook
Hales
Root
Ali
Morgan
Bopara
Buttler
Woakes
Tredwell
Jordan
Anderson
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Ashley Giles possibly to join Leicestershire...
www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/768701.html
I think anyone may struggle there for a while but if someone were to make a success of that county then i think you could get a job anywhere.
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KP's autobiography released next week, 9th October and he is immune to action fron the ECB as basically he doesn't have a contract within
county cricket as Surrey cancelled his.
It should make interesting reading if he can say what he likes as long as it's the truth!!
www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/786701.html
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Sorry mix up there
www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/786579.html
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KP's autobiography released next week, 9th October and he is immune to action fron the ECB as basically he doesn't have a contract within
county cricket as Surrey cancelled his.
It should make interesting reading if he can say what he likes as long as it's the truth!!
www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/786701.html
The Surrey KP link up was a disaster waiting to happen. I can see KP drifting rapidly out of the limelight.
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KP's autobiography released next week, 9th October and he is immune to action fron the ECB as basically he doesn't have a contract within
county cricket as Surrey cancelled his.
It should make interesting reading if he can say what he likes as long as it's the truth!!
www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/786701.html
The Surrey KP link up was a disaster waiting to happen. I can see KP drifting rapidly out of the limelight.
No doubt his publicist Piers Morgan will try and keep his name out there!
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KP will become a T20 mercenary and will make a fortune from it. He might not get the massive press in the UK but he'll still get a lot of coverage.
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One or two tasters from his book
www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/787621.html
www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/787623.html
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Nothing massively surprising there for me, there has clearly been a clique who call the shots and given how poorly he performed for a year before being dropped Prior was clearly a key part of that, that Prior played again after the ashes tour said everything for me.
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On the Big Cheese...
"He is dominating the place, and has taken to referring to himself as the Big Cheese (or, informally, Cheese). As in, the Big Cheese is pleased with how he played today. The Big Cheese has earned some beer tonight. Cheese went out last night. Cheese went to bat today. Who does that? I don’t know how he got the name, but he’d started using it a lot..."
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I accidentally clicked on to a link that took me to the Mail website but whoever the journalist was had a list of questions for Pietersen as he wouldn't conduct any one to one interviews, amongst them was why every single side he ever played in he subsequently left under a cloud having fallen out with several people? I think it's because he's a massive twat, just a guess but any mate of Morgan's has got to be a rather large one.
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KP clearly thinks a lot of himself and, by all accounts, he's very much willing to hold other players to the same standards and tell them if he doesn't think they're doing enough. A player like that will always upset people, the question is, and should be, does he individually and as a presence in the side make you a better or worse side, in general very few people can honestly say the latter is the case. It's why there were a lot of bad things said about Keane when he left Man U as well.
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Does he acknowledge the name Kevin Pietersen any longer? He seems to have been been rebranded.
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no idea, I use KP because it's easier and quicker, everyone knows who is being discussed if you mention cricket and KP so I don't see any problem.
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I think we've seen the last of KP as a big name player who justifies his selection by sheer weight of runs. He had a poor IPL season and was very average for Surrey and for Zouks in the Caribbean T20.
He's always been the sort of player who needs to play regular cricket to ensure he's in the best possible form. Playing 20 over cricket just won't help him.
He's a busted flush.
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Interesting words from Athers in the Times:
The truth. One man’s battle against the English cricketing establishment and the bullying clique and destructive management that ran and ruined the England team. That is the prism through which Kevin Pietersen and his ghostwriter, David Walsh, would like us to see the world this week. But interpretations of truth are altogether more complex, no matter the right of anyone to put his side of the story if he feels wronged.
Two “truths” - absolute and inescapable - should be remembered, as attempts are made to chart the tricky waters of claim and counter-claim in Pietersen’s brilliantly written autobiography. First: Pietersen was one of the finest batsman to have pulled on an England shirt in the modern game. Instinctive and innovative, he was a match-winner who entertained the crowds and was feared by the opposition as all too few England batsman have been in recent times. A great player.
Second: Pietersen was part of a team that, for a brief period around 2010-12, was among the most successful ever produced by this country, winning the World Twenty20, the Ashes home and away and becoming the number one ranked Test team in the world. That ruthless, disciplined, hugely successful team was coached and managed by Andy Flower, Moriarty to Pietersen’s Sherlock Holmes in this narrative, and led by Andrew Strauss, of whose success as captain Pietersen openly admits he was jealous.
The two are linked to some degree. Great players make great teams and the Pietersen effect was a chilling one for opposition bowlers and helped Flower and Strauss produce a team that dominated for a short period of time. But only to some degree: to denigrate utterly one of the finest, if not the finest, professional coach England have ever had, to dismiss Flower as a control freak and irrelevant to England’s success is not a truth, but a warped view of events seen through the rear-view mirror.
Having been lucky enough to have watched Pietersen’s international career in its entirety, from its brilliant beginnings in South Africa in 2004, to its sad ending in Sydney ten years later, there have been many press conferences and interviews in which Pietersen’s view of the world, and his place in it, has changed. Flower gets full bore in the book and the teams that Strauss and Alastair Cook have led are portrayed as completely dysfunctional throughout, even during winning times, but it was not always so.
Take this quote from Pietersen, for example, in September 2011 about Flower: “As a coach he’s amazing because he listens so much and makes everyone feel welcome in the dressing room. Everyone has an opinion. I think that is incredible. I really think he’s a fantastic coach.”
In the book, Flower is nailed thoroughly, portrayed as a useless coach, and a miserable man. A “mood hoover”, a “micro-manager” who sweats the small stuff and, at one point, “f***ing horrendous.’
Just before his 100th Test in Brisbane, Pietersen gave a press conference in which he outlined just how good the atmosphere was within the team, despite a front-page story in a Brisbane tabloid that claimed he was unpopular with his team-mates.
He said: “It’s a nicer environment now. We’ve all grown up and actually grown a lot tighter. If you look at the environment now, it’s absolutely fantastic and I’m not lying and being real straight. We’re all having so much fun and that front page was so funny because ten hours before that we’d all had an amazing dinner. We all had such a great time together.”
And yet, the autobiography portrays the 2013-14 Ashes tour as a miserable place to be from the very start. “The dressing room was sick all along,” he writes of the teams led by Cook and Strauss.
Which is not to say that Pietersen’s view of the world should be dismissed. Far from it. Merely not swallowed whole, although it should be enjoyed, written as it is with great flair and imagination by Walsh.
In many ways, this is a tale that is as old as the hills. Towards the end of the book, Pietersen says of dressing rooms in team sports: “People may think that they are places of milk and honey and soothing music but they are not. I had dinner in India one night not long ago with some great players from a few different countries....the stories that were swapped around would make your hair stand on end. I have rugby friends and football friends and the stories are all the same.” Everyone who has ever played cricket for England knows that to be the case.
There are a number of reasons why this particular tale became more rancorous. In no particular order they are: the relentlessness of modern schedules; the Indian Premier League (IPL); Twitter, the dynamics of this particular team, which saw the traditional batsmen v bowlers clique magnified because the strongest characters were among the bowlers; the modern cult of the coach which provided an added complication not experienced by players of an earlier generation, who would have sorted out problems more directly; and Pietersen’s own complex character.
At the heart of the discord is the IPL, which Pietersen has embraced since its inception and about which he is, not surprisingly, unrepentant. He loves the IPL, the money, the glitz and glamour, the crowds and the friendships formed. Who wouldn’t? But it created problems, driving a jealous wedge between him and other senior players who did not get to enjoy a slice of the pie. During one Test match, Pietersen took himself off to watch his IPL team on television, which he admits was a crass thing to do.
Pietersen has warm words for the management team of Michael Vaughan and Duncan Fletcher, who brought him into the England fold. They encouraged him, nurtured him and valued him in a way that he believed those who followed - the “woodpecker” (forever pecking away) Peter Moores and Flower - never did. But it is also true to say that neither Vaughan nor Fletcher had to deal with the fallout from the IPL. They might have navigated those waters with greater skill, who knows, but it was a management problem they were spared.
Pietersen is an inveterate tweeter, but it was the parody account @KPgenius that hurt him more than anybody realised at the time and in this he must have our sympathy. The clique of Jimmy Anderson, Stuart Broad and Graeme Swann were sniggering about it behind his back during the summer of 2012, and Pietersen rightly wonders about the difference between this and the text messages about Strauss that he admits sending to his South African friends.
“The Twitter business and all the behind my back sniggering was a clear case of bullying. People couldn’t say the same things face to face but they felt they could do it through the sneakier ways of social media. Hunting in a pack.”
At one point in the book, Pietersen recalls breaking down in tears in front of Flower about the parody account. Flower, for his part, has openly acknowledged that he should have done more to nip that episode in the bud.
This, and the behaviour in the field of some of the senior bowlers to other, younger members of the team, was out of order. It struck many observers as odd when Broad or Anderson or Prior or Swann would holler after mistakes, misfields or dropped catches. The strongest members of this team appeared to be the bowlers; the meekest (Cook, Ian Bell) being the batsmen, so opening up farther that age-old batsman/bowler feud.
This was 2012, an annus horribilis, including “textgate”, cyber bullying, retirement from one-day cricket, being dropped in the middle of the South Africa Test series, left out of the World Twenty20 and a central contract withheld pending good behaviour and “reintegration”. At that point, the story had seemed to reach its conclusion - and many within the ECB wished there had been no postscript (which was instigated by Flower, although Pietersen does not acknowledge that in the book).
Had such an ending occurred, it is unlikely that Pietersen would be in a position to publish such a book as this. As it was, reintegration happened; Pietersen played some gorgeous innings in India; the team disintegrated under attack from Mitchell Johnson, and Pietersen, alone, was duly sacked, a narrative outlined in detail in the book, but about which Pietersen remains puzzled. Whether the ECB gives added explanation remains to be seen.
Walsh, with many delightful phrases, has certainly turned Pietersen’s story into a compelling read. The tone is cruel in parts (especially to Prior and Flower); regretful in others (multiple mistakes are acknowledged); elegiac, almost, in others. At one stage, he reaches some kind of self-awareness, calling himself English by choice, but South African by nature. As a result, this is not a straightforward good guy/bad guy tale. It is more complex than that. One thing is certain though - despite the olive branch held out to the “good guy” Cook, Pietersen will not play for England again"
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If Prior really did refer to himself as "The Big Cheese" then he comes out of this looking the biggest twat of all.
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An interview on the Beeb this morning
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/29518340
and if this works the full interview on 5 live with Chiles.
www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/dailyinterview
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It's all very strange and I imagine there are elements of truth on both sides. Pietersen is clearly a difficult character and has been throughout his career, but at the same time there is always the impression that the England senior players hold too much sway.
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sorry seeing this as an outsider and a SL cricket fan. KP, Anderson, Broad, Prior and Swann are all the same. Big egos in different clicks who ended up clashing when they started losing. Spoilt kids who didnt know how to win the right way (sledging, strutting, glares at own teammates and opposition) and then not surprisingly it all went downhill when they started losing.
The above lot really thought they were legends of the game. The fact was that england had a good team which peaked at a time australia went through a rebuilding phase but they are no match to the waughs, taylors, WI teams.
Pieterson is a great england batsman but he doesnt hold a candle to what sangakkara has acheived. Kallis, lara, ponting, sachin, dravid, waugh are all time greats and he doesnt even come close when you compare records. problem is he thought he was better and the media made him think it as well. same thing with anderson. he isnt close to wasim akram, mcgrath or waqar or the great WI fast bowlers. He isnt even close to the most complete fast bowler today Dale Steyn. But the english media has made anderson into an all time great. He is a skilfull bowler but with a bowling average of 29!!!? I hate the way anderson behaves in the field. cocky, smart mouth but no great.
The decent guys are cook, strauss, trott, collingwood, bell in my view.
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Anderson's average is misleading though, it's mainly damaged by his early career where coaches messed up his action. On Pietersen he might not be up with Lara, Ponting, Tendulkar or Sangakkara but again figures can be misleading. He was an excellent batsmen who could pretty much change the game in a session. It's worth considering that Tendulkar and Sangakkara, whilst being excellent players have scored most of their runs on batting friendly wickets and often against weaker opposition. Sangakkara's average was similar to Pietersen's against the best Test sides (40.20 England, 48.64 South Africa, 43.90 Australia). I'm not disputing he's a top player, but it has to be taken in context.
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sorry seeing this as an outsider and a SL cricket fan. KP, Anderson, Broad, Prior and Swann are all the same. Big egos in different clicks who ended up clashing when they started losing. Spoilt kids who didnt know how to win the right way (sledging, strutting, glares at own teammates and opposition) and then not surprisingly it all went downhill when they started losing.
The above lot really thought they were legends of the game. The fact was that england had a good team which peaked at a time australia went through a rebuilding phase but they are no match to the waughs, taylors, WI teams.
Pieterson is a great england batsman but he doesnt hold a candle to what sangakkara has acheived. Kallis, lara, ponting, sachin, dravid, waugh are all time greats and he doesnt even come close when you compare records. problem is he thought he was better and the media made him think it as well. same thing with anderson. he isnt close to wasim akram, mcgrath or waqar or the great WI fast bowlers. He isnt even close to the most complete fast bowler today Dale Steyn. But the english media has made anderson into an all time great. He is a skilfull bowler but with a bowling average of 29!!!? I hate the way anderson behaves in the field. cocky, smart mouth but no great.
The decent guys are cook, strauss, trott, collingwood, bell in my view.
I agree with much of what you say, but there is really no comparison to be made between Steyn and Anderson.
They are two completely different types of bowlers. Anderson is a swing bowler, and is reliant on some help with the conditions. In swinging conditions there is no doubt that Anderson is a better bet than Steyn.
Steyn has been blessed with 6-7 mph more pace than Anderson, so in flatter conditions (majority of the time) then he's obviously better.
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Also I don't particularly like Anderson's attitude on the field, but he's hardly alone in world cricket for that.
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If KP wanted to chase the money why didn't he just tell the ECB to shove their central contract up their arse?
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anderson and broad trying to be aggressive is ok. but it ends up looking like petulant kids throwing a tantrum. rather than showing the nastiness which steyn shows it ends up looking like the sreesanth show.
No doubt anderson is a fine swing bowler though.
World cricket is going through a lean patch on fast bowlers. Cant believe that Ambrose, walsh, waqar, wasim, bishop, donald, mcgrath all played at one time.
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Martin Crowe on KP (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/789027.html)
He makes some good points, some of which I hadn't considered. Maybe it is all about his losing the captaincy and his attitude to the IPL.
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I think we've seen the last of KP as a big name player who justifies his selection by sheer weight of runs. He had a poor IPL season and was very average for Surrey and for Zouks in the Caribbean T20.
He's always been the sort of player who needs to play regular cricket to ensure he's in the best possible form. Playing 20 over cricket just won't help him.
He's a busted flush.
Yep, his ship has sailed. The 3-5 of Balance, Bell and Root is fine and there are other options coming through. A great player, but I just don't think he's worth bringing back into the fold with the baggage he has.
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Just finished reading the book and I think Athers summary is about right.
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This West Indies situation is really bad for cricket, and really they picked the worst possible people to annoy in the BCCI.
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This West Indies situation is really bad for cricket, and really they picked the worst possible people to annoy in the BCCI.
Agreed
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This West Indies issue is a real worry, the senior players have been really stupid in the stance they've taken. They've jepordised their international futures and also the international future of the West Indies cricket team. I really hope the BCCI don't proceed with legal action as it would be terrible for the game if the West Indies disappear.
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Nice to see Pakistan giving Australia a battering in the Test series in the UAE. Hopefully that'll start to undermine the Aussies new found confidence.
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Nice to see Pakistan giving Australia a battering in the Test series in the UAE. Hopefully that'll start to undermine the Aussies new found confidence.
Well and truly battered. One down at the close too.
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Such a shame that Pakistan didn't enforce the follow on this morning with Aussies all out at 261 309 runs behind. An innings defeat would have been truly humiliating for them. I know the follow on has been almost forced out of the game since Australia lost that test match in Indis but there is a time and place for it and today definitely was.
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Misbah has scored the fastest test 50 of all time off 21 balls and the joint fastest test century off 56 balls. He now shares the record with Sir Viv.
And they dropped him second ball!
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I'm no fan of Pakistan but this is great stuff.
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Aussies have been smashed out of sight by Pakistan - losing by 356!
Pakistan's biggest ever win and statistically Australia's worst ever series defeat. They've averaged taking a wicket every 80 runs. Just shows, nullify Johnson's pace and without the balance of Harris and suddenly they come right back to the pack.
Just imagine if Ajmal had of played.
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Losing their 5 wickets for 8 runs is quite a collapse. They were 200-4 and then 246 all out.
Pakistan are quite a team when they play in the UAE.
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Aussies have been smashed out of sight by Pakistan - losing by 356!
Pakistan's biggest ever win and statistically Australia's worst ever series defeat. They've averaged taking a wicket every 80 runs. Just shows, nullify Johnson's pace and without the balance of Harris and suddenly they come right back to the pack.
Just imagine if Ajmal had of played.
Always lovely to see Aussies humiliated. Does not happen often enough.
They had a very good plan to play Johnson and for once batters were disciplined enough to stick to it after that there is not much Aussies offered on a pitch prepared to resemble Karachi stadium track at it's local best.
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Hopefully that'll dent the Aussies confidence a bit, I don't care if they're the number 1 test side they're not that good. Johnson can blow teams away as we've seen, but they have a lot of players who will go over the hill at the same time. Hopefully we'll have developed more by the time they arrive next summer.
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To be fair our top line batsmen played in well enough in the last Ashes series. It was the lower order batsmen that were blown away.
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To be fair our top line batsmen played in well enough in the last Ashes series. It was the lower order batsmen that were blown away.
That's not true, the only batsman who averaged over 30 was Stokes and his figures were heavily influenced by his century (the only 1 we scored on the tour). You can look at the stats below, there really is no silver lining for the batting displays, as a team we let Johnson and Harris totally dominate us to the point where it was embarrassingly 1sided. The bowling as poor as well and clearly our lower order batting was abysmal but averages like we saw from the top order can't happen if you want to win things.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=7899;team=1;type=series
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I was going to say, which top line batsmen did well? I don't remember any.
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Also our bowling was poor mainly because they had no scoreboard pressure to bowl to in the 2nd innings and had to get back out there after 60 overs time after time.
We had the Aussie top order in trouble loads of times but ran out of stream. Swanny's injury and general state of not really wantin to be there didn't help either as we had to keep going back to our knackered seam attack.
The batting was dreadful all tour long.
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I was going to say, which top line batsmen did well? I don't remember any.
Yeah exactly. Pietersen topped the run chart for the series and he averaged below 30
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Also our bowling was poor mainly because they had no scoreboard pressure to bowl to in the 2nd innings and had to get back out there after 60 overs time after time.
We had the Aussie top order in trouble loads of times but ran out of stream. Swanny's injury and general state of not really wantin to be there didn't help either as we had to keep going back to our knackered seam attack.
The batting was dreadful all tour long.
that is a pretty good round up of that last series, let's hope we can give them a game in the next Ashes series.
UTV
The Doc
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Also our bowling was poor mainly because they had no scoreboard pressure to bowl to in the 2nd innings and had to get back out there after 60 overs time after time.
We had the Aussie top order in trouble loads of times but ran out of stream. Swanny's injury and general state of not really wantin to be there didn't help either as we had to keep going back to our knackered seam attack.
The batting was dreadful all tour long.
Yep agreed, although I think our bowling lack ideas at times. Australia have a really good bowling attack, but we shouldn't have folded like we did.
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To be fair our top line batsmen played in well enough in the last Ashes series. It was the lower order batsmen that were blown away.
That's not true, the only batsman who averaged over 30 was Stokes and his figures were heavily influenced by his century (the only 1 we scored on the tour). You can look at the stats below, there really is no silver lining for the batting displays, as a team we let Johnson and Harris totally dominate us to the point where it was embarrassingly 1sided. The bowling as poor as well and clearly our lower order batting was abysmal but averages like we saw from the top order can't happen if you want to win things.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=7899;team=1;type=series
What I mean was that we weren't blown away by Johnson. that was the lower order. Not that anyone came out of the series with any real credit.
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To be fair our top line batsmen played in well enough in the last Ashes series. It was the lower order batsmen that were blown away.
That's not true, the only batsman who averaged over 30 was Stokes and his figures were heavily influenced by his century (the only 1 we scored on the tour). You can look at the stats below, there really is no silver lining for the batting displays, as a team we let Johnson and Harris totally dominate us to the point where it was embarrassingly 1sided. The bowling as poor as well and clearly our lower order batting was abysmal but averages like we saw from the top order can't happen if you want to win things.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=7899;team=1;type=series
What I mean was that we weren't blown away by Johnson. that was the lower order. Not that anyone came out of the series with any real credit.
I agree they weren't blown away, but they did just go into survival mode rather than trying to put some pressure on him. On that same link look at the strike rates, loads of top order batsmen going at 30-50%. Johnson had an economy of 2.74 - score that slowly against him and he'll do what he did.
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An amazing innings from Rohit Sharma just now 264 (173) 33 x 4's & 9 x 6's in a total of 404 v Sri Lanka.
He was dropped on 4, a pretty expensive one as it turned out, it took him 72 balls to get to 50 which in effect means he scored 214 off 101 balls,incredible.
He is the first player to score 2 x 200's in ODI's.
He was out off the last ball of the innings which was a shame he desrved to finish not out.
He didn't quite beat the highest List A score just missing out on beating Alastair Brown's 268 for Surrey which he most certainly would have equalled had he not been caught on the
boundary.
I don't hold much hope for Sri Lanka in their reply!!!
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An amazing innings from Rohit Sharma just now 264 (173) 33 x 4's & 9 x 6's in a total of 404 v Sri Lanka.
He was dropped on 4, a pretty expensive one as it turned out, it took him 72 balls to get to 50 which in effect means he scored 214 off 101 balls,incredible.
He is the first player to score 2 x 200's in ODI's.
He was out off the last ball of the innings which was a shame he desrved to finish not out.
He didn't quite beat the highest List A score just missing out on beating Alastair Brown's 268 for Surrey which he most certainly would have equalled had he not been caught on the
boundary.
I don't hold much hope for Sri Lanka in their reply!!!
That's a phenomenal effort. How many dot balls did he face?
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An amazing innings from Rohit Sharma just now 264 (173) 33 x 4's & 9 x 6's in a total of 404 v Sri Lanka.
He was dropped on 4, a pretty expensive one as it turned out, it took him 72 balls to get to 50 which in effect means he scored 214 off 101 balls,incredible.
He is the first player to score 2 x 200's in ODI's.
He was out off the last ball of the innings which was a shame he desrved to finish not out.
He didn't quite beat the highest List A score just missing out on beating Alastair Brown's 268 for Surrey which he most certainly would have equalled had he not been caught on the
boundary.
I don't hold much hope for Sri Lanka in their reply!!!
That's a phenomenal effort. How many dot balls did he face?
58
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The breakdown per bowler is:
Kulasekra 58 runs 32 balls 9 dots 8 x 4's 2 x 6's
Eranga 53 31 9 7 2
Mendis 49 27 6 9 0
Prasanna 43 37 15 3 2
Thisara 25 14 3 3 1
Dilshan 6 3 0 1 0
Matthews 30 29 16 2 2
Totals 264 173 58 33 9
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An amazing innings from Rohit Sharma just now 264 (173) 33 x 4's & 9 x 6's in a total of 404 v Sri Lanka.
He was dropped on 4, a pretty expensive one as it turned out, it took him 72 balls to get to 50 which in effect means he scored 214 off 101 balls,incredible.
He is the first player to score 2 x 200's in ODI's.
He was out off the last ball of the innings which was a shame he desrved to finish not out.
He didn't quite beat the highest List A score just missing out on beating Alastair Brown's 268 for Surrey which he most certainly would have equalled had he not been caught on the
boundary.
I don't hold much hope for Sri Lanka in their reply!!!
That's a phenomenal effort. How many dot balls did he face?
58
Tsk. That's almost 10 overs where he didn't score!
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From espncricinfo (http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-sri-lanka-2014-15/content/story/798949.html):
...
Rohit's innings was so ludicrous that the first 100 runs, which were hit at a run-a-ball, seems achingly humdrum in comparison to the 164 that followed. The surge had actually begun before he reached his century, when he plundered 14 runs in four balls, in Nuwan Kulasekara's 30th over. Soon after that, the ball would be leaping off the middle of his bat with almost every stroke he offered.
There were many incredible shots, from among his 33 fours and nine sixes, but the most gobsmacking was the six off Kulasekara at the end of the 48th over, when he walked across to off stump, took a half volley from about a foot and half away from him and flicked it high over the midwicket boundary. It was the kind of shot, and innings, that seemed in open defiance of physics.
...
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Moeen showing the right attitude in the first one day game against Sri Lanka A. He hit 6 boundaries in the first over he faced!
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England won by 56 runs D/L
Moeen Ali star turn 56 runs his 50 off 21 balls plus 3/ 29
Cook 54 his 50 off 58 balls
Bell 16*
Root 15*
Bowling
Finn 8 0 48 2
Woakes 8 0 20 0
Tredwell 8 2 33 0
Ali 9 0 29 3
Jordan 5 0 48 0
Stokes 3 0 15 1
Root 2 0 7 0
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Ali is fast becoming an absolute certain pick regardless of the format. His development over the last 6 months is brilliant and he's quality cricketer.
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Hope Phil Hughes is soon back at the crease. Doesn't look good though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/30189066
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Good luck Phil.
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Just reported here as "Gravely ill" and "on life support".
Just terrible.
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That is just sickening.
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It's absolutely horrible.
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Jesus. That's horrendous. Hope he pulls through.
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Awful. Feel for Sean Abbott as well.
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Fucking hell. Just goes to show the bravery required to be a batsmen at the highest level of the sport, even in this day and age of advanced protection.
Good luck Phil
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Sounds horrendous. Wish him all the best.
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I don't for a moment doubt Brett Lee's sincerity in wishing Hughes all the best, or even his sympathy for the mindset of Sean Abbott at the moment.
However, I found his interview on SSN a little bit rich considering that exhibition over he bowled at Piers Morgan during the last ashes series. His series of fast bouncers at a bloke (who don't get me wrong, is a twat of the highest order) who was clearly in no position to be able to protect himself was dangerous and completely unedifying
As I say, I generally think Lee comes across as a very decent chap. I wonder if he's now thinking back on that incident a bit.
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I like Ali playing up the top of the order, but I'm disappointed that we seem to have ditched Hales.
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I like Ali playing up the top of the order, but I'm disappointed that we seem to have ditched Hales.
Its an inevitable thing to happen when Cook is playing and captain, team would be better with Hales and Ali opening with Morgan as captain
What do u make of Gurney Paul? I am not convinced, I know he is a left armer and adds variety
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I'm not convinced by Gurney at all. His bowling his reasonable, but I wouldn't say it's anything particularly special. He's a complete liability in the field and with the bat. His catching in the deep has been woeful.
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Match started - Ali & Cook openers- no Hales, but are bowling SL37-0 7 overs, Woakes 4 0- 22 and Gurney 3 0-13,
a little bit wayward.
Finn not fit to play.
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I've already seen enough to think Gurney and Woakes probably aren't good enough to be an opening bowler pair.
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This might get very horrible unless we can get a couple of quick wickets.
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Stokes' bowling has gone backwards.
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Stokes' bowling has gone backwards.
fixed
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On the actual game, I didn't see the first 10 overs but since then it's been typically negative by Cook, trying to keep the score down rather than trying to take wickets, breaking this partnership and then getting another 1-2 cheap wickets will do a lot more to keep the final score down than playing safe.
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94-0 18 overs
Perrera 50
With regard some of the comments in regard to the bowling today i think that it is a little unfair, so far the players have not played any meaningful
cricket due to the weather in fact only 4 players,batsmen, have spent any time in the middle.Practise in the nets doesn't compare to match time cricket.
Perhaps a little of the blame for the start today should be laid at the skippers door putting SL into bat.
107-0 20.1
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Bowlers starting an international game for England should be better than this regardless of whether they haven't had much game time. The pace attack here is pitiful.
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Rather like the rugby team, the selection is all over the place. Gurney is just rubbish.
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Gift of a wicket, now lets get another couple off our own efforts and see if we can get them worried.
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Gift of a wicket, now lets get another couple off our own efforts and see if we can get them worried.
Moeen Ali listening to you. A good wicket to get that one....Sangakarra always a threat.
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Good lad Mooen, belter of a delivery, quite an odd wicket, seemed to take the commentators by surprise.
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Ali is our shining light at the moment. Now Cook this is the time to attack.
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complete waste of a review as well, How can Dilshan let him go for that, if it was clearly piched outside then fair enough but it didn't look far away (and obviously wasn't, but what I meant is it's not one you'd think you had a good chance with).
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Can't be gifting wides just when we're getting a foothold, I get that they don't want to give Dilshan anything on the offside but don't angle in at the stumps and then seam in, that's just stacking the extras column for them.
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Can't be gifting wides just when we're getting a foothold, I get that they don't want to give Dilshan anything on the offside but don't angle in at the stumps and then seam in, that's just stacking the extras column for them.
Yes indeed s woeful over from Gurney that one
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Dilshan gone but they're still well set for 310-320 here which will be a very tough chase.
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Interesting couple of wickets there possibly but already too many runs on the board.
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Well it's up to Cook to show his worth up the top of the order and Bell as well actually.
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Ouch that penultimate over was bad.
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Poor from Cook but Moeen is really going after them here, if he hangs around for another 15-20 overs like this it'll be a very interesting finish.
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Super from Moeen this, but once again we are carrying Cook.
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Shame we lost Belly then as he was going well 35 (35) the match is still there to be won (or lost) 107-2 211 more required.
Root in,need Moeen to bat a fair bit longer yet 60 (39)
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Awww, bell gone just as they were looking like building a good partnership.
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Bell seems to go when well set all the time now.
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Root gone cheaply (2), now the pressure builds 121-3
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Morgan gone 1, 124-4.....the inevitable starting to happen. Imperative Moeen hangs around now!!!
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could be close now as 4 down and we bat long all the way down for Ravi to finish it :)
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Procession in full swing now Buttler played on 21 (21) 159-5
Ravi in now to join Moeen.
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178-5 Moeen 100 10 x 4's and 4 x 6's 72 balls....the 3rd quickest one day ton for England
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Moeen gone, looks all over, excellent knock from him though.
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Brilliant from Moeen, but it's going to be another gallant defeat. The opening partnership should be Moeen and Hales but we have Cook getting in the way. You should pick the team then the captain not the other way round.
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Excellent from Moeen and very good from Ravi. It's a pity no one else helped much. Moeen really is a quality player.
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I feel more confident about our batting now. There is talent and explosiveness there. If only Cook was droppable.
Bowling will improve with Anderson and Broad. We aren't going to win the WC, but I think we could surprise a side or two.
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Brilliant from Moeen, but it's going to be another gallant defeat. The opening partnership should be Moeen and Hales but we have Cook getting in the way. You should pick the team then the captain not the other way round.
Absolutely.
Moeen is adding the necessary resolve to his batting and i believe has now achieved international standard next step is move to world class level.
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Moeen's raised an interesting question as well, he has the class to open the batting in Test cricket as well.
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Phil Hughes has passed away at the age of 25. Utterly devastating news.
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Too young. You shouldn't die doing what you love at 25.
That's fucked up.
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http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/phillip-hughes-dies-after-being-knocked-unconscious-during-sheffield-shield-match-at-scg/story-fnia3gmj-1227134415326
Stunned.
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I really hope Sean Abbott has the right people and support around him at the moment. God only knows what he is going through.
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That’s terribly sad news, RIP to Phil Hughes who passed away three days short of his 26th birthday. Sympathies go out to his family.
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I never thought this would be the eventual outcome.
25 years old with everything in front of him.
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The writing was on the wall from yesterday afternoon when NSW Cricket gave a very short press conference and the Doctor who gave it just looked devastated.
First thing this morning all the news coverage was of team mates leaving the hospital last night. They showed Michael Clarke and his wife, Shane Watson and his wife all looking absolutely shattered. Mrs OzVilla asked me if he'd died, their faces really told you all you needed to know.
Lots of Cricket fans had a soft spot for Phil Hughes in Australia, scored a heap of Sheffield Shield runs year after year for NSW and his new state South Australia. Youngest player to score a century in each innings of a Test Match (his second away in South Africa) he was then dropped from the Australian team 3 times. But everyone knew he was a very talented player and we all expected it was just a matter of when, not if, he became a main stay in the Aussie batting order. He had started the season with South Australia well and many suspected he'd have been the man called up to replace Michael Clarke in next weeks opening test against India in Brisbane, a game I now can't see going ahead.
Everyone here, cricket fan or not, is unbelievably sad.
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Really tragic news to wake up to.
RIP Phil Hughes
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Horrendous news.
Something has to be done about the bouncer in cricket. When Stuart Broad got struck in the face he had been facing ball after ball aimed at his head and it was inevitable one was going to hit him.
I don't know the context around the ball that hit Hughes but to have such a dangerous tactic completely unregulated can't be right.
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Horrendous news.
Something has to be done about the bouncer in cricket. When Stuart Broad got struck in the face he had been facing ball after ball aimed at his head and it was inevitable one was going to hit him.
I don't know the context around the ball that hit Hughes but to have such a dangerous tactic completely unregulated can't be right.
Short pitched bowling is regulated within the laws of the game.
Re this incident, when he got hit he was on 63, he was inform. It wasn't that quick a delivery supported by the fact that he actually got on to it so quickly that he'd got through the shot before it hit him - that's how he got hit on that back, unprotected part of the head.
These things, tragic as they are, happen in sports. Look at Boxing, Motor Racing, Skiing, Rugby, etc all have suffered these sort of things.
Short pitched bowling is part of the game, shocking as this is, and this is just a tragic event for everyone.
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TBH in the video I struggled to see where/how he was struck - IMHO in this case there can be no blame towards the bowler or the game - it was a fluke
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Horrendous news.
Something has to be done about the bouncer in cricket. When Stuart Broad got struck in the face he had been facing ball after ball aimed at his head and it was inevitable one was going to hit him.
I don't know the context around the ball that hit Hughes but to have such a dangerous tactic completely unregulated can't be right.
Short pitched bowling is regulated within the laws of the game.
Re this incident, when he got hit he was on 63, he was inform. It wasn't that quick a delivery supported by the fact that he actually got on to it so quickly that he'd got through the shot before it hit him - that's how he got hit on that back, unprotected part of the head.
These things, tragic as they are, happen in sports. Look at Boxing, Motor Racing, Skiing, Rugby, etc all have suffered these sort of things.
Short pitched bowling is part of the game, shocking as this is, and this is just a tragic event for everyone.
I'm sorry but that 'its part of the game', 'accidents happen' mentality is part of the problem.
What happened to Hughes isn't the bowler's fault but the fault of the cricketing authorities who allow throwing a hard ball at someone's head at 90 mph to be a legitimate tactic.
It should be against the rules to bowl a ball above chest height but the rules are focused on how easy it is for a batsmen to score runs rather than focusing on his safety.
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Cricket has been played at Test Level since 1877. Add in the thousands of County, State and Provincial first class matches since then and the millions of balls that will have been bowled.
I may be wrong but I can't think of another example where a player has lost his life like this.
That tells me that this is a tragedy but no reason to change the laws of the game.
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Cricket has been played at Test Level since 1877. Add in the thousands of County, State and Provincial first class matches since then and the millions of balls that will have been bowled.
I may be wrong but I can't think of another example where a player has lost his life like this.
That tells me that this is a tragedy but no reason to change the laws of the game.
Totally agree. A freak accident that is all. I've seen some malicious intent by bowlers in Cricket matches but this wasn't one of then. Just a tragic accident.
RIP Phil Hughes.
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Tragic news and guys can we leave the debate about the laws of the game for another day? It's a little distasteful at the moment.
Rest in Peace Phil Hughes.
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RIP Phil
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Very sad news indeed. I feel for his parents and siblings. This was a freak accident and we could do without comments about regulation ref bowling.
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Absolutely tragic news I was genuinely choked when I heard. My thoughts are with the family. Any debate about the laws of the game is not for today. RIP Phil.
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It should be against the rules to bowl a ball above chest height but the rules are focused on how easy it is for a batsmen to score runs rather than focusing on his safety.
Injury (even death) can occur when the ball hits the batsman in the chest. I think that more deaths have occurred from being hit in the chest than being hit in the head.
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This is terrible news and must be devestating for all concerned. 25 is no age at all and to die doing the thing he loved and playing in a typically aggressive way too. Very, very sad.
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25 is no age at all, RIP Phil and condolences to his family and friends.
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Cricket has been played at Test Level since 1877. Add in the thousands of County, State and Provincial first class matches since then and the millions of balls that will have been bowled.
I may be wrong but I can't think of another example where a player has lost his life like this.
That tells me that this is a tragedy but no reason to change the laws of the game.
Totally agree. A freak accident that is all. I've seen some malicious intent by bowlers in Cricket matches but this wasn't one of then. Just a tragic accident.
RIP Phil Hughes.
Genuinely shocked and saddened to wake up this morning to this news, as I really hoped he would pull through and make a full recovery.
I agree that it was a freak accident where the ball must have just hit him in exactly the wrong spot. I feel for his family and friends who must be finding it extremely hard to make sense of what has happened and come to terms with it.
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Terrible news but, as has been said above, it's a freak accident and I hope there isn't a panic to change laws as a show of 'doing something'. Rather than worrying about I hope the focus stays firmly on helping the family, club and the bowler come to terms with this.
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Warwickshire CCC @CricketingBears 46m46 minutes ago
Following this morning's tragic news, the 2015 fixture announcement has been postponed until tomorrow. More details to follow #CricketFamily
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TBH in the video I struggled to see where/how he was struck - IMHO in this case there can be no blame towards the bowler or the game - it was a fluke
There's a slow mo on a sports site I saw yesterday. The ball hits him below the line of his helmet, behind his left ear and slightly down from centre of his ear. He reacted to the bounce and crouched down half ducking it and puts his right ear toward his right shoulder thus exposing that small part of his skull that the ball tragically hits. Truly a million to one shot. Terrible that a 25 year old man dies playing a sport like cricket.
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In Sky's live coverage of yesterdays game in Sri Lanka, they showed a later version of the helmet he was using and opined that it would probably have saved the young man.
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His surgeon has just been on saying that with injuries like this death is usually almost instantaneous.
It's an incredibly rare injury with only 100 odd cases of this specific injury ever recorded as reported, only one previously caused by a cricket ball.
It's wall to wall coverage here, everyone is shocked, reports he was to receive a call up for next weeks Test Match once he'd left the field - life is so fragile.
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The fact that Sean Abbott Murderer is trending on twitter shows just how vile some people on the planet are.
This was a total freak of an accident. Thoughts are with Phil Hughes family and also with Sean Abbott. I'm sure his family and the Cricket world will rally round him
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This is utterly tragic, and as someone else has said, I really hope Paul Abbot gets the support he needs.
The problem with helmets, and I am sure they have saved live and prevented many serious injuries, is that the art of avoiding the bouncer has been lost to a generation of batsmen. The bouncer is a legitimate part of cricket, always has been, but before helmets were widespread batsmen would keep their eye on the ball and duck or sway away at the last millisecond, using a helmet gives a sense of security meaning that batsmen now will come forward to a high ball or will hook or cut it rather than avoid it.
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The fact that Sean Abbott Murderer is trending on twitter shows just how vile some people on the planet are.
This was a total freak of an accident. Thoughts are with Phil Hughes family and also with Sean Abbott. I'm sure his family and the Cricket world will rally round him
Disgusting, but that sums up a lot of people on Twitter to be honest.
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Sincere condolences to his family and friends. RIP Phil.
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Thoughts with Phil Hughes family RIP.
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Tragic, RIP Phil
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Pretty poor stuff. No Moeen magic and Cook and Bell get their usual
fails.
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I really can't drum up any enthusiasm for one day Cricket.
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The thing is we persist with players who just have never looked like being top ODI players. Also I hate this thing in English sport where they try to claim positive development from defeats. You don't develop as a team in defeats.
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I'd drop Cook and Bell for Hales and Taylor.
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Hales and Taylor have to start after that shambles. How many chances are Cook and Bell allowed? I like them both as Test players, but they've never been top ODI players and it's time to move on.
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"I've just got to do what I keep doing, believing in myself, doing my basics right."
No Alastair you've got to change something or you will keep failing. Chandimal, the Sri Lankan captain, dropped himself in the Twenty20 World cup because he realised he was holding the team back. That's true captaincy and courage and that's what Cook should do.
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I'd drop Cook and Bell for Hales and Taylor.
And I really thought we'd moved away from a one dimensional and outdated one-day team but that we still have Cook and Bell at 1 and 3 is betond me. He may well respond witha ton next game ut that is symptoatic of the problem. Every now and then he finds a score but isn't good enough for modern one-day cricket. He hasn't got the think on your feet mentality and going through gears when needed. That he might get the odd hundred isn't the point.
He's got the Lambert feel to him at the moment does Cook. Thinking its going okay and just not being able to see what you, I and just about everyone else can see.
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I'd drop Cook and Bell for Hales and Taylor.
And I really thought we'd moved away from a one dimensional and outdated one-day team but that we still have Cook and Bell at 1 and 3 is betond me. He may well respond witha ton next game ut that is symptoatic of the problem. Every now and then he finds a score but isn't good enough for modern one-day cricket. He hasn't got the think on your feet mentality and going through gears when needed. That he might get the odd hundred isn't the point.
He's got the Lambert feel to him at the moment does Cook. Thinking its going okay and just not being able to see what you, I and just about everyone else can see.
I genuinely can't understand why Ballance is not considered for ODIs. I think he would be more capable of pacing a one day innings than either Cook or Bell.
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Radio 5 this morning were saying that the ECB had not sent a representative to Hughes' funeral. That seems a bit strange.
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Hales in finally, but still no Taylor.
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Radio 5 this morning were saying that the ECB had not sent a representative to Hughes' funeral. That seems a bit strange.
I'd use a stronger word than strange
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Why do England have to chase less runs than Sri Lanka actually got in the same amount of overs??
I fully understand the target being increased, as a team would have built their innings around more overs being faced, but reduced? I'd understand if we were facing less overs than SL did.
First time i've ever seen DL used in this way. Am I just missing something here?
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Anyway, actually made a promising start to the innings. Cook even close to a run a ball!
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Just a brilliant eulogy for Hughes by Clarke. Very moving.
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I think a few people have suggested the idea of naming Phil Hughes as 12th man for Australia's first test against India. Can't see that happening, but would be a lovely gesture.
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Why do England have to chase less runs than Sri Lanka actually got in the same amount of overs??
Never attempt to understand the mysteries of Duckworth / Lewis.
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Why do England have to chase less runs than Sri Lanka actually got in the same amount of overs??
Never attempt to understand the mysteries of Duckworth / Lewis.
It's because we'd taken a wicket. In D/L each wicket down is considered to increase the possibility of a team being all out before their allotted overs are completed, the earlier the wicket falls the larger the increase. Therefore the consideration is that the reduction in overs lowers our chances of bowling them out so the target to chase is reduced as 'comparable compensation'.
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Just a brilliant eulogy for Hughes by Clarke. Very moving.
Great strength and spirit from Clarke.
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Excellent from Moeen again, but we're collapsing again.
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Excellent from Moeen again, but we're collapsing again.
Oh no we're not :)
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Vital that we won there and particularly brilliant from Moeen and Buttler. I hope they're not too harsh on Hales the whole point of him playing is to be attacking. I think Taylor should be in for Morgan we need to give him a chance.
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That that was a rare win a bit like Villa in rare wins.
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Just a brilliant eulogy for Hughes by Clarke. Very moving.
Great strength and spirit from Clarke.
He's been superb this week. Shown what a class act he is and a real leader of men.
I never used to like him much but I have nothing but respect for him now.
It's all terribly sad though.
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Confirmed this morning that Cook suspended for the next game...i imagine that will mean a recall for Bell,hopefully in my opinion as we still require experience in
the team which Bell provides with abundance. Morgan can feel very lucky as i imagine he will take over the captaincy for this game when he could have been dropped for
Taylor.
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Taylor must get a game now.
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With Cook out we'd better win well as it will hopefully show we can perform without him. Tons for the top 3 should do it. Or top 5 to make sure.
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Absolutely brilliant knock from Taylor who shows why he must play now. Pretty poor from the rest.
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Morgan gets an important 50. They'll drop Hales now to force Cook back into the team.
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Another defeat but at least Taylor and Morgan played well. I have no idea what has happened to Stokes. Since he got back from Australia last year he's been atrocious. Now I still
believe he'll be a top player and has a lot of talent, but he's a million miles away from an international cricketer at the moment.
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The doubters of Taylor because of his height are very narrow minded. He's a quality player
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He is Paul I have been stating his case for ages...........They will drop Hales again wont they, shocking and Stokes needs dropping
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Much as I enjoy seeing the Australian Cricket team struggle, I don't begrudge any of Clarke, Warner or Smith getting hundreds in this Test Match.
Great character shown from all of them - respect.
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Much as I enjoy seeing the Australian Cricket team struggle, I don't begrudge any of Clarke, Warner or Smith getting hundreds in this Test Match.
Great character shown from all of them - respect.
Totally agree OzVilla, Clarke especially with his back injury has been magnificent and extremely brave, he looked in a lot of pain. When he scored his ton he looked like he was holding back the tears. He has gone up in my admiration a great deal in the past few weeks. All of them have acted in a great dignified manner.
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Woakes with a 6for and SL all out for 239. The TMS lot seem to think that's a decent score on the pitch though. Generally you have to fancy yourself to chase less than 250 so hopefully we'll have a real go at it at least. Hales and Ali firing from the off and giving us a real head of steam would've been a nice way to start that chase but lets hope Cook manages to carry through and do for us what sanga did for them.
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Not good from Moeen.
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Good from Taylor got to keep the aggression up.
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KP is very quick to tweet criticism, but strange that he isn't addressing the fact he was wrong about Taylor.
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I think KP was wrong to make it about height but I agree with him that, at the time, Taylor wasn't an international cricketer, I think he's pretty much there now and this is probably the right time for him to be coming in.
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Excellent from Taylor and Root and a good win.
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Superb innings from Root, played the supporting role at the start and then took on the attacking role to finish it off.
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Not sure about Ali opening. I think Root would be a decent opener with Ali at 4.
Hales
Root
Taylor
Ali
Morgan (for this series then have another look)
Buttler
Bopara
I think that's a good enough top 7 and is changeable. We'd have someone at the top of the order- Hales - to get after the bowling and Root is good enough to open and play the long innings as and when required. Taylor can do both jobs well also - accelerate and stabilise. then we've got the hitters to come in after the top 3. i see no reason to have Cook or Bell in the team. I also think inexperience will be our most potent weapon in the World Cup.
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Not sure about Ali opening. I think Root would be a decent opener with Ali at 4.
Hales
Root
Taylor
Ali
Morgan (for this series then have another look)
Buttler
Bopara
I think that's a good enough top 7 and is changeable. We'd have someone at the top of the order- Hales - to get after the bowling and Root is good enough to open and play the long innings as and when required. Taylor can do both jobs well also - accelerate and stabilise. then we've got the hitters to come in after the top 3. i see no reason to have Cook or Bell in the team. I also think inexperience will be our most potent weapon in the World Cup.
I think Ali has done a decent job at the top of the order in this series, yes there are 2 low scores and a start that went nowhere but the other 2 innings were superb, in the first game he deserved to win us the game and was let down by the rest of the side and then in the 3rd game his 58 at the top put us in the position to push for the win, I like the idea of an opener who's all or nothing like that, someone who can win games on his own with a 140% century.
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Ali is exactly what we need at the top of the order. We need players who attack the bowler. It's not always going to come off, but when it does it gives us a great chance.
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Great to see Sean Abbott getting 6 for 17 in the second innings of his comeback match. God knows how he must be feeling when he gets the cherry in his hand.
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But that's the problem with Ali. He's too hit and miss. We're getting more consistency now from Root and I'll put him at the top of the order to compliment the hitting style of Hales. We start well then you can choose who next from Taylor and Ali but I'd go with Taylor. Ali can come in and hopefully do some work from overs 30 onwards. i don't think we'll lose anything from him being there and given the amount of overs gone he'd be more encouraged to attack which is where his strangths lie.
That it doesn't always come off (Ali) is an England failing compared to most top teams. i think he's a 50/50 batsman at teh top of the order which is why I'd drop him down a place or two.
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It would be no different if you put Hales at the top. If you want a chance of getting a big score you need aggression at the top. Personally I'd like Hales and Ali at the top.
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Whatever happens one thing I'll say about the ODI side which I have said in years is that the batting actually excites me now.
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Whatever happens one thing I'll say about the ODI side which I have said in years is that the batting actually excites me now.
Yeah, I agree with that.
If only Cook was droppable, it would then be a very exciting looking line up.
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This is just getting silly now.
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bloody Cook again. Why cant Bell get a game.
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It's ridiculous that Cook is still in the side. Drops Sanga on 42 and then fails with the bat again.
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That'll be Taylor dropped now for one failure.
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That'll be Taylor dropped now for one failure.
Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
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Pitch really turning. Next to no chance of winning this game
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Ali out but nothing you can do about those.
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How on earth did we allow SL to get close to 300 on this pitch?
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Playing to our normal formula.
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Thing is, Cooks not even a good captain, certainly not in ODI, in fact I would say he was poor
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Hmmm the only time Morgan did anything was when Cook didn't play.
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Cook has to go as one day captain. Why is Ian Bell not playing? Our best batsman - is he injured? Cook out!
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I like Bell as a Test player, but he has consistently failed as an ODI player. I think the batting line up is right apart from Cook should be replaced by Hales.
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Bell shouldn't be on the ODI team like Cook he should concentrate on Test Cricket and getting the Ashes back for us
Interesting interview with Moores after the game saying Cooks position as captain will be reviewed at the end of the series, well that should only end with one decision but I am not convinced that Moores and Downton have the "balls" to sack him...........
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It's getting quite embarrassing now that everything has to be shuffled around to accomodate Cook.
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Does anyone know why Ballance doesn't get a look in?
Averages 51 at nearly a run a ball.....
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Oh dear Moeen and Hales fail.
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I like Bell as a Test player, but he has consistently failed as an ODI player. I think the batting line up is right apart from Cook should be replaced by Hales.
I don't think he has failed as a ODI player, he is only about 130 runs off becoming Englands highest ever ODI scorer with an average strike rate on par with Dilshan, just below KP and if you think he has had to play in 4 or 5 different batting positions. I'd say that is amongst the best England has produced
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I don't think Bell has failed at ODI at all.All to often,like in this series,he has been made the scrapegoat. How someone like Morgan with his record in the last year or so can be in the side and Bell is not is beyond me
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32 from 48, not good enough.
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Morgan's record in ODIs is better than Bell's. He's scored double the number of 100s in 30 less games. I agree Morgan's recent record doesn't really justify his position in the side. However he is unauthorodox, which is precisely what England lack. Bell, as good as he is, is not someone who will change an ODI game.
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I am following the game on Cricinfo and with regard to Cook,they called it right a few overs back.They said he would waste to many balls and then get out to a silly shot
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Morgan fails yet again!
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Yep Morgan's form is very poor at the moment as well.
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Other than Root this is a pretty gutless effort. The reason I have more time for Morgan(although it is running out) is that he's shown he can be a top ODI player, but Cook never really has.
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Root seems to be struggling with a knee injury.
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The whole basis for keeping Cook is that he suceeded in Australia in the past, but that seems to forget last winter where he completely bombed. It is madness that he's still captain of the ODI team.
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Other than Root this is a pretty gutless effort. The reason I have more time for Morgan(although it is running out) is that he's shown he can be a top ODI player, but Cook never really has.
You could put Bell's name in place of Morgan's there and it would be just as true. Yes Bell isn't all fireworks but I can live with players in the order who are there to rotate the strike and nurdle for 1s and 2s in overs 20-35 where we often let ourselves drift (particularly when we're setting a target).
First order of business in about an hours time should be Cook withdrawing from the captaincy of the ODI side and making himself unavailable for selection. Once that elephant is dealt with we can go about deciding how to make up the rest of the top 7, for me Moeen, Taylor, Root and Buttler have 4 spots sewn up right now, so you're back-filling the other 3.
Down the bottom Woakes comes out of the series with a lot of credit and deserves to keep his place alongside Broad and Anderson then the last spot you're deciding between Tredwell if it's spinning or another quick (I don't know who you go with out of Finn, Jordan and Gurney, all come with as many negatives as positives). The other bowling question is whether Bopara deserves one of the batting spots, if he does you give yourselves more flexibility as you can expect Bopara and Root to get in a fair few overs so you don't have to bowl everyone out which makes Jordan a better choice as he can be explosive with the bat and whilst erratic he seems to be a good bet to break a partnership when it looks like the game is getting away.
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Hales
Bell
Ballance
Root
Buttler
Ali
Woakes/Bopara
Tredwell
Stokes
Jordan/Broad
Anderson
either Bell or Root to Captain.
plenty of batting(not sure of a order) and plenty of bowling options. 4 pace bowlers and if needed 4 spin/part time spin
I wrote this on 24th September, but I would probably go now with:
Hales
Ali
Ballance
Root - capt
Buttler
Bopara
Woakes
Broad (if fit and capt)
Tredwell
Jordan
Finn
8 full and part time Bowlers and we would bat down to 9...
UTV
The Doc
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Hales
Bell
Ballance
Root
Buttler
Ali
Woakes/Bopara
Tredwell
Stokes
Jordan/Broad
Anderson
either Bell or Root to Captain.
plenty of batting(not sure of a order) and plenty of bowling options. 4 pace bowlers and if needed 4 spin/part time spin
I wrote this on 24th September, but I would probably go now with:
Hales
Ali
Ballance
Root - capt
Buttler
Bopara
Woakes
Broad (if fit and capt)
Tredwell
Jordan
Finn
8 full and part time Bowlers and we would bat down to 9...
UTV
The Doc
No Anderson?
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Hales
Bell
Ballance
Root
Buttler
Ali
Woakes/Bopara
Tredwell
Stokes
Jordan/Broad
Anderson
either Bell or Root to Captain.
plenty of batting(not sure of a order) and plenty of bowling options. 4 pace bowlers and if needed 4 spin/part time spin
I wrote this on 24th September, but I would probably go now with:
Hales
Ali
Ballance
Root - capt
Buttler
Bopara
Woakes
Broad (if fit and capt)
Tredwell
Jordan
Finn
8 full and part time Bowlers and we would bat down to 9...
UTV
The Doc
No Anderson?
well it was a toss up between Fin and Jimmy, but either would of done really.
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Hales
Bell
Ballance
Root
Buttler
Ali
Woakes/Bopara
Tredwell
Stokes
Jordan/Broad
Anderson
either Bell or Root to Captain.
plenty of batting(not sure of a order) and plenty of bowling options. 4 pace bowlers and if needed 4 spin/part time spin
I wrote this on 24th September, but I would probably go now with:
Hales
Ali
Ballance
Root - capt
Buttler
Bopara
Woakes
Broad (if fit and capt)
Tredwell
Jordan
Finn
8 full and part time Bowlers and we would bat down to 9...
UTV
The Doc
No Anderson?
well it was a toss up between Fin and Jimmy, but either would of done really.
I don't think any of the seamers have done well enough on this series to justify keeping Anderson out of the side.
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Anderson in for Finn and it's close, I'd be a worried that we have Woakes at 7 though, he's done very well with the bat recently but I still think that's probably 1 too high for him, unless the top 4 start seeing out 25-30 overs between them with a lot more regularity. I'd trust woakes to come in and get 20-30 at roughly 100% SR but asking him to do much more than that isn't really fair right now. He will get better though, give him another year or 2 and he'll be a genuine middle order all-rounder, he's got a lot of ability and learns fast.
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Cook has to go, I'm pretty concerned that he's in terminal decline as a player.
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I think my team would be -
Hales
Ali
Taylor
Ballance
Root
Buttler
Bopara
Woakes
Broad
Finn
Anderson
I know that's seam heavy, but Tredwell got taken apart in Aus and I think our best chance is to bowl teams out with aggression.
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Cook's gone apparently. I'm very surprised, but it's the right decision and I hope it helps sort his Test career now.
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yup now bring Bell back, not only is he a good batsman but Morgan will want some experience around him
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yup now bring Bell back, not only is he a good batsman but Morgan will want some experience around him
Sorry no. Let Bell concentrate on tests. I'd rather see a one day team full of the likes of Taylor, Hales, Ballance & Buttler. Bell is class but he does not dominate games. The Traditional English play it safe mentality then hope to score heavily at the death will not win us trophies.
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I think the right decision has been made, but I think the timing and the way they went about it is cruel. It should have been made earlier and they shouldn't have put Cook through what he went through. I imagine it's going to be difficult for him to trust them now.
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The England World Cup squad is a lot stronger with Ballance, Broad and Anderson coming in for Cook, Stokes and Gurney. I really hope Stokes sorts his game out, because I think potentially he's a top player, but Gurney was never international class.
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Yeah I agree with all of those comments above, Cook shouldn't have gone to SL but to take him and keep him as captain for that makes you think they've 'knee-jerked' a little after his position became the only talking point.