Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Boz on November 07, 2013, 02:37:03 PM
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Delph has been our player of the month for three months and I know that might not seem a lot to other clubs supporters, but he's being getting good mentions in the media, but Woy's got his favourites and Villa players are not amongst them.
It seems Villa will have to be in the top four before any players are likely to be considered for the England squad, a sorry state from the not too long ago days of Barry, Milner, Young, Bent, Downing and Gabby. Even Walker got into the squad while at Villa, but these days, we've lost our nucleus of English players. Is this good or bad?
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Possibly drop to his knees, unzip Woys fly and think of England.
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"We want goals"
New Order, World in Motion
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Score more goals and have a better pass completion rate. He is playing well but he is shinning in a very poor midfield i'm afraid.
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Influence games.
He's played pretty well in a terrible midfield but hasn't done that much either going forward or backward.
No conspiracy to see here, he just hasn't done that much in reality.
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Influence games.
He's played pretty well in a terrible midfield but hasn't done that much either going forward or backward.
No conspiracy to see here, he just hasn't done that much in reality.
Does the sun ever shine in your world?
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Not too worried about him not getting into the squad - we have seen how players get their heads turned once in the squad and as he has still to sign a new contract I would hate to see him tapped up by someone else - he has been our best player this season , but England can wait for now.
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Get a move to one of the Sky six.
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What if we get drawn in the same group as Belgium ? That big brute of a striker they have would flatten him.
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Influence games.
He's played pretty well in a terrible midfield but hasn't done that much either going forward or backward.
No conspiracy to see here, he just hasn't done that much in reality.
Agreed
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Influence games.
He's played pretty well in a terrible midfield but hasn't done that much either going forward or backward.
No conspiracy to see here, he just hasn't done that much in reality.
Think he does his bit defensively but agree he does little offensively. Offers next to nothing in the final third. Wouldn't stand out in most other midfields.
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He'd need to play for Man United's reserves then he'd be straight in like Cleverley and Welbeck.
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Influence games.
He's played pretty well in a terrible midfield but hasn't done that much either going forward or backward.
No conspiracy to see here, he just hasn't done that much in reality.
Think he does his bit defensively but agree he does little offensively. Offers next to nothing in the final third. Wouldn't stand out in most other midfields.
The number of times he dribbles and muscles his way out of tight situations is exemplary. Much better than Cleverly.
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It's utterly crazy given some of the names that have received selection in recent months and the supposed direction of the national team that Delph has missed out. The ignorance of the England management team seemingly knows no bounds.
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Is he eligible to play for anybody else?
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He's playing better than Cleverley and Barkley for me and on a par with Henderson.
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Sorry all - but i don't think he is good enough!!!!
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Franksy doesn't see why Delph should be in the Ingerlund squad either. He is a "1000 miles away" from being good enough.
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Villa aren't doing well enough. If we were on a good run and playing with confidence as a team I reckon Delph and Gabby would be in the squad.
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Keep playing well, hes a good defensive midielder, better than Carrick.
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He's playing better than Cleverley and Barkley for me and on a par with Henderson.
Nowhere near as good as Barkley.
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Villa aren't doing well enough. If we were on a good run and playing with confidence as a team I reckon Delph and Gabby would be in the squad.
Gabby would need to play incredibly well to get anywhere near in my opinion - in fact he's lucky not have dropped by lambert when fit as in Weimann.
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Villa aren't doing well enough. If we were on a good run and playing with confidence as a team I reckon Delph and Gabby would be in the squad.
Gabby would do himself the world of good if he occasionally scored a goal
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Play for Spurs.
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He's playing better than Cleverley and Barkley for me and on a par with Henderson.
Nowhere near as good as Barkley.
He was way better than Barkley when we played them imo.
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I do think that Delph has done well so far this year.
He has played in a poor midfield though, and he doesn't really influence games, score goals or create much. He looks eye catching at times when he can wriggle out of a tight spot, but is this really enough to be considered as an international class midfielder?
If the answer is yes then the bigger question would be why the pool of English midfielders was so hopeless?
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He's got to add something to his game to make him stand out. Until he does that he'll never get a call up
Some goals or even assists would be a start
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Sorry all - but i don't think he is good enough!!!!
I think he's brilliant, absolutely brilliant, just brilliant
I support England but not that arsed hes not in the squad as I don't think being in the England squad has done our club to many favours over the recent years
but he's man of the match most games , and is our best midfielder, probably our best player and will walk the fans player of the year if he continues as he is
I love him, and if it wasn't for Guzan hed be my favourite player
i'm also pissed and its only half past five, but ive had a long day full of stress, so I don't give a toss
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He's playing better than Cleverley and Barkley for me and on a par with Henderson.
Nowhere near as good as Barkley.
He was way better than Barkley when we played them imo.
He was also 'way better' then Ramsey when we played Arsenal...
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Franksy doesn't see why Delph should be in the Ingerlund squad either. He is a "1000 miles away" from being good enough.
About the same as 90% of the current England squad then. Sod England anyway, I want all our players fit and away from influential players and agents.
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He's playing better than Cleverley and Barkley for me and on a par with Henderson.
Nowhere near as good as Barkley.
Did you go to the Everton game? the only time he was noticed was when he was subbed.
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Woy is a bit fucked here. I'd guess he's trying to build a core of a squad. This leaves 4 or 5 players to 'tinker' with.
Individually delph probably deserves it - he's been ace - but the rest of the team have let him down. Can we complain if Southampton's form has meant that Roy's attention has been distracted elsewhere. As a squad they've been better than us.
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He should and deserves to be picked ahead of the likes of Cleverley and Henderson. That's all there is to say really.
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Franksy doesn't see why Delph should be in the Ingerlund squad either. He is a "1000 miles away" from being good enough.
Franskey's a '1000' miles away from being a good enough broadcaster.
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He's playing better than Cleverley and Barkley for me and on a par with Henderson.
Nowhere near as good as Barkley.
Did you go to the Everton game? the only time he was noticed was when he was subbed.
Yeah because one game constitutes form...
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Yes, I feel this 'needs to score goals' assertion is slightly flawed considering Cleverley seems to be a regular in the squad. I can't for the life of me see what he brings.
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Woy watched the Willa-Weverton game. "Kammy" and "Curbs" did a special player watch, Delph v Barkley for Gillette Fusion The Best A Man Can Get Soccer Saturday and they both agreed that Fab was pretty fab while all the Crazy talk over Gnarls Barkley was unwarranted.
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He should and deserves to be picked ahead of the likes of Cleverley and Henderson. That's all there is to say really.
That pretty much sums it up for me, I have never rated either player. If that's the future England midfield then its going to be very grim!
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I am happy Roy is not picking our players for meaningless friendlies.
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I am happy Roy is not picking our players for meaningless friendlies.
I am happy Roy is not picking our players.
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I am happy Roy is not picking our players for meaningless friendlies.
I am happy Roy is not picking our players.
Until our players decide they might then be better off playing somewhere else.
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I see your point, but they get their heads turned when they are chosen anyway.
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He's playing better than Cleverley and Barkley for me and on a par with Henderson.
Nowhere near as good as Barkley.
He was way better than Barkley when we played them imo.
He was also 'way better' then Ramsey when we played Arsenal...
Barkley has spent all season doing what Tonev did at Norwich, i.e. shooting every time he got a sight of goal, he's a long long way from being ready for international football.
oh, and Delph completely took Ramsey out of the game, the same guy who's probably the best player in the league so far this season, so that's probably a pretty big indicator that Delph is one of the orm midfielders in the league.
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If that shot had gone in rather than back out off the inside of the post against Arsenal i think he already would be in the squad... He just needs a goal or two to underline his credentials and boost his confidence.
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Keep playing well, hes a good defensive midielder, better than Carrick.
Are you mad?
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Yeah, Delph really needs to improve his endless square balling.
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Keep playing well, hes a good defensive midielder, better than Carrick.
Are you mad?
Agree on that point, actually. I love Delph, but the way Carrick is underrated by so many people continues to confuse me a bit.
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I see your point, but they get their heads turned when they are chosen anyway.
It's a handy excuse, but I'm not sure it stands up.
If somebody like Barry or Young gets called up for England, it's probably because they are playing very well. If they're playing very well then they're probably likely to think to themselves "I could probably play at a higher level than I am at Villa" without anyone from ManYoo whispering in their ear that they might want to think about it.
The first time that Young was called into the England squad and chatted with Rooney and Ferdinand probably wasn't the first time that he thought he might be able to play for a team higher up the table than we were.
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'Claret & Blue' tinted glasses abound where Fabian Delph is concerned....yes he is indeed having a decent season but far from great, he probably will win the fans player of the season
but thats partly due to no-one else forcing their way into the frame currently.
He is not good enough for England.......yet!!!
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He gets too many yellow cards, too aggressive and indisciplined at times
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He is not good enough for England.......yet!!!
Who are the nine or so current English midfielders who you feel are good enough?
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If Jay Rodriguez plays for England so can I.
He may as well of brought Heskey back.
Delph should have been given a chance. Maybe he's on the shortlist.
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I see your point, but they get their heads turned when they are chosen anyway.
It's a handy excuse, but I'm not sure it stands up.
If somebody like Barry or Young gets called up for England, it's probably because they are playing very well. If they're playing very well then they're probably likely to think to themselves "I could probably play at a higher level than I am at Villa" without anyone from ManYoo whispering in their ear that they might want to think about it.
The first time that Young was called into the England squad and chatted with Rooney and Ferdinand probably wasn't the first time that he thought he might be able to play for a team higher up the table than we were.
Not just the thought of playing in a better team - the money some of those players are too will be vastly more than villa will be able to offer , the sooner Delph agrees and signs a new contract the better .
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He is not good enough for England.......yet!!!
Who are the nine or so current English midfielders who you feel are good enough?
Of the 10 named today i would say 7 of them are above Delph, the 3 who i would say are maybe at the same level are Henderson, Cleverley and Barkley not a great deal to choose from the 4 of them.
I personally think that Barry was discarded by England too soon and his mature display last week at Villa Park showed that. I also am a fan of Michael Carrick.
Dare i say it but i actually rate Shelvey as well.....not yet enough to suggest for one minute that he should be anywhere near the England squad presently.
As they say 'football is all about opinion'. It's what makes it such a great game. I do hope that one day Delph may well get a game for England but it certainly won't be this side of the World Cup finals.
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Influence games.
He's played pretty well in a terrible midfield but hasn't done that much either going forward or backward.
No conspiracy to see here, he just hasn't done that much in reality.
Does the sun ever shine in your world?
I'll get excited about Delph when he does something exciting, at the moment he's ok, thanks for your concern though.
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The point i wanted to make but forgot. What let's Delph down is his first touch he lets the ball get away from him and is forced into making rash challenges on occasion which
has got him into trouble in the past. That failing is i think the main reason why currently wont make England squad selection.
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If Jay Rodriguez plays for England so can I.
He may as well of brought Heskey back.
Delph should have been given a chance. Maybe he's on the shortlist.
Rodriguez is an attacking player. It's not exactly comparing apple with apples.
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He is not good enough for England.......yet!!!
Who are the nine or so current English midfielders who you feel are good enough?
I'm not disagreeing here, this is my way of counting (whilst maintaining a degree of balance - I don't think you can pick the 22 "inform" players each squad, there has to be a degree on continuity):
1. Fuck, I'm struggling already.
1. Carrick
2. Gerrard (or Lampard)
3. Wilshire
4. Milner
5. Henderson
6. llanana
7. Cleverly (there's no way he has played better recently, however if he is "the man" then the manager has to perceiver for continuity).
After that, it's much of a much-ness: Delph / Barkley / etc
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He's playing better than Cleverley and Barkley for me and on a par with Henderson.
He's playing better than Cleverley and Barkley for me and on a par with Henderson.
Nowhere near as good as Barkley.
Did you go to the Everton game? the only time he was noticed was when he was subbed.
Yeah because one game constitutes form...
Nowhere near as good as Barkley.
Did you go to the Everton game? the only time he was noticed was when he was subbed.
Yeah because one game constitutes form...
I didn't say it constitutes form, but given everyone sort of agrees that our midfield is not the strongest, then you would have thought that the latest bright young thing may have made more of an impression if he is being considered for England.
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England has plenty of tidy players in central midfield. What it doesn't have is a player with Delphs drive, pace and energy. He could certainly add something, and given England aren't renowned for magnificent passing, his slight limitations on the ball could be forgiven. When Delph keeps it simple he's okay. Other players with a limited passing range have come and gone in the England side and often been seen as a key cog at the time they were in. Just thinking of Batty, Parker and Hargreaves off the top of my head.
Delph for me deserves a shot. We should pick on form. In that regard he gets in the squad over 2-3 of the other players, most notably Cleverly. Cleverly is fairly tidy on the ball but nowt special. He doesn't get many goals or assists, and he offers little physically either. Delph IMO, at this current time, would offer more.
He's good enough. Easily. Whether that's an indictment at Englands lack of genuine class is another matter. Delphy's a good player. I don't think he'll ever be a great player, but he is a good player.
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I didn't say it constitutes form, but given everyone sort of agrees that our midfield is not the strongest, then you would have thought that the latest bright young thing may have made more of an impression if he is being considered for England.
The same then could be argued about Ramsey not making much of an impact against us. I guess that still counts against his other performances too?
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I think Delph has come on in major leaps and bounds this season but I fear the World Cup is coming a season too early for him. Hopefully he'll remain consistent this season and as some people have mentioned if he can add some goals to his game and improve at the rate he is doing who knows he might sneak it. It was certainly great to see him waltzing around the Chelsea midfield at the start of the season. He had a great game against Arsenal too but for me there was a point where he went around Lampard as if he wasn't there and I thought that there is the future and that there (lampard) is the past. I hope that's the case and he reaches his potential in a Villa shirt. Fingers crossed.
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He has outplayed the likes of Huddlestone and Barkley in recent weeks in fairness to him. Hard to see him getting in ahead of Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick and Wilshere though. Hodgson seems to rate Cleverely highly and he can play in a few more positions than Delph.
Think Delph just needs to be patient. He could add some badly needed mobility to the English midfield options, dont think England will get away with playing 2 from Gerrard, Lampard and Carrick in the same midfield next summer. Delph could be a decent sub to come in when one of the older lads starts flagging in the Brazil heat.
Think at the moment he is struggling with the tactical smarts to be a top defensive midfielder while attacking wise he seems to lose his bearings around the 18 yard box. He is being forced to do too much because of how poor we are in midfield. If we had bought someone like Barry in the summer I think Delph would have been able to focus more on his own game rather than playing the roles of 2 - 3 players.
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Join Southampton.
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I think he's playing very well indeed and non partisan pundits do too
But he'd need to score and assist more (ie at all) and ideally be playing in a side that passed and moves better to really shine
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To get into Woy's team he need to secure a move to manciti or Manu and be part of the bigger squad and play Carling cup matches and now and than make the bench for a PL game. Easy. Others have done .....
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Why do people want him to be in the England squad ?
Its far better for Villa that he gets a few days rest
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He has been playing very well in the middle of the park. As good as anyone I would say. His problem is when he gets into attacking positions
he is not sure what to do next. As others have said he needs to score (and he doesnt) or create (which he also doesnt).
Our best player by a country mile this season though and that includes Benteke who needs to start moving through the gears before World Cup year.
I expect he will.
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Why do people want him to be in the England squad ?
Its far better for Villa that he gets a few days rest
I kind of agree in a way. It's just that he deserves to be in there ahead of some of the others.
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Personally - I think he is not international quality - he looks good in our midfield because he is playing with others who are struggling.
He is good at what he does - but does not score or create - as others on this thread have already mentioned.
Delph is more akin to Lee Hendrie, Downing etc. - rather than Mortimer, Cowans, Milner, Barry, who were all worthy of England places
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His disciplinary record may also be part of the decision not to call him up. He's got a bad challenge in him per game. He'll get yellows in the Prem, but as you often see in World Cups the laws can be stricter regarding tackling. Delphy could be liable to get himself sent off. Again it's that continual argument you get regarding aggressive players. How much of that do you curb, without affecting his style of playing?
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@JamesNursey: Given Lambert's stance with Gabby & Delph over new deals, sense there's a different attitude at Villa. Almost: Treat em mean & keep em keen!
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I'd prefer us to leave discussing new deals until the summer to be honest. Lets get the season out the way and see how they do. Gabby's been here forever and at the moment needs to up his game. Delphy's only played consistently for us this year because of injuries, so as brilliant as he's been this season, he's got a long way to go to prove he's worth a good extension.
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I know a lot of people on here think that statistics are pointless and I won't try to convince them otherwise but I do think it's worth popping up the whoscored statistics for the entire premier league this season right now...
Linky (http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014)
For anyone who can't be bothered to click, using OPTA stats whoscored give players a rating based on their effect on the game. Fabian Delph is currently the 19th best player in premier league on their model with an average rating of 7.48 (out of 10)
To me that suggests his form is so good that he can't be ignored by England on footballing grounds.
For info the only England players (named in the squad) above him are Townsend, Gerrard, Johnson and Sturridge.
Henderson - 7.12
Barkley - 7.18
Cleverley - 6.73
Lallana - 7.29
Wilshere (for info) - 6.88
Shelvey (he got mentioned) - 6.68
The numbers back up my thinking that of the lot Lallana and Delph are the 2 who deserve to be in the squad.
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Delph looks good in what quite frankly is a poor midfield - he has been our best outfield player this season .
I don't think he should be in the England squad at this moment in time but I do agree there are some in the squad less deserving than him .
All Delph can do is keep performing to a high consistent level and see where it takes him .
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Delph looks good in what quite frankly is a poor midfield - he has been our best outfield player this season .
I don't think he should be in the England squad at this moment in time but I do agree there are some in the squad less deserving than him .
All Delph can do is keep performing to a high consistent level and see where it takes him .
The best player in a poor midfield is, for me, a shit argument. That's basically advocating the approach of picking bit part players from the clubs in the champions league because whilst they're anonymous at least they're being anonymous with better players around them. Delph is standing up to be counted and has made us tick so far this season, that deserves recognition.
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Delph needs to score some of the goals he used to convert for Leeds.
His overall contribution is good and he has versatility in his play - I think he'd make a very wing-back and can cover at FB. He now needs to be a little more composed and sharpen his decision-making (particularly when going in for the ball).
paul_e's stats show what we see from week to week: he's not just good in a poor midfield: he's actually good by comparison with his peers.
My cynical / selfish side agrees with UK Redsox - we should be pleased that he has been passed over.
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Delph looks good in what quite frankly is a poor midfield - he has been our best outfield player this season .
I don't think he should be in the England squad at this moment in time but I do agree there are some in the squad less deserving than him .
All Delph can do is keep performing to a high consistent level and see where it takes him .
The best player in a poor midfield is, for me, a shit argument. That's basically advocating the approach of picking bit part players from the clubs in the champions league because whilst they're anonymous at least they're being anonymous with better players around them. Delph is standing up to be counted and has made us tick so far this season, that deserves recognition.
It's not an argument - its a statement , he's the best player by a distance in a poor midfield , not meant in anyway to be a detrimental comment towards him - is he international class - not in my opinion at this moment in time , but he may well as his career progresses.
Henderson and cleverly to name but 2 are also not international class at this moment - it's all about opinions.
Last April there was a clamour for Lowton and Westwood to maybe get called up - Delph is having a great start to the season - let him carry on as he is doing in a villa shirt .
Delph has been outstanding for us iin the last 2 months - if he continuous his improvement in form and consistency then rewards will follow, he's not there yet but he's not too far off .
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I know a lot of people on here think that statistics are pointless and I won't try to convince them otherwise but I do think it's worth popping up the whoscored statistics for the entire premier league this season right now...
Linky (http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014)
For anyone who can't be bothered to click, using OPTA stats whoscored give players a rating based on their effect on the game. Fabian Delph is currently the 19th best player in premier league on their model with an average rating of 7.48 (out of 10)
To me that suggests his form is so good that he can't be ignored by England on footballing grounds.
For info the only England players (named in the squad) above him are Townsend, Gerrard, Johnson and Sturridge.
Henderson - 7.12
Barkley - 7.18
Cleverley - 6.73
Lallana - 7.29
Wilshere (for info) - 6.88
Shelvey (he got mentioned) - 6.68
The numbers back up my thinking that of the lot Lallana and Delph are the 2 who deserve to be in the squad.
So on this basis Curtis Davies should be in ahead of both Jagielka and Cahill!!!
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Personally - I think he is not international quality - he looks good in our midfield because he is playing with others who are struggling.
He is good at what he does - but does not score or create - as others on this thread have already mentioned.
Delph is more akin to Lee Hendrie, Downing etc. - rather than Mortimer, Cowans, Milner, Barry, who were all worthy of England places
Milner doesn't belong in that list and Delph has just as good an engine as him but is more gifted with the ball at his feet.
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I know a lot of people on here think that statistics are pointless and I won't try to convince them otherwise but I do think it's worth popping up the whoscored statistics for the entire premier league this season right now...
Linky (http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014)
For anyone who can't be bothered to click, using OPTA stats whoscored give players a rating based on their effect on the game. Fabian Delph is currently the 19th best player in premier league on their model with an average rating of 7.48 (out of 10)
To me that suggests his form is so good that he can't be ignored by England on footballing grounds.
For info the only England players (named in the squad) above him are Townsend, Gerrard, Johnson and Sturridge.
Henderson - 7.12
Barkley - 7.18
Cleverley - 6.73
Lallana - 7.29
Wilshere (for info) - 6.88
Shelvey (he got mentioned) - 6.68
The numbers back up my thinking that of the lot Lallana and Delph are the 2 who deserve to be in the squad.
So on this basis Curtis Davies should be in ahead of both Jagielka and Cahill!!!
No, that's completely missing the point and extending an argument far beyond it's intention in an attempt to make it it look stupid, which is pretty petty.
Everyone agrees, I assume, That Andros Townsend deserves to be in the squad, and the stats back that up as he's the most effective English midfielder in the league at the minute, but by picking him we didn't drop Gerrard, we 'dropped' Oxlade-Chamberlain (who actually missed out through injury but that's not really important) i.e. one of the weaker midfielders.
In defence you wouldn't be dropping either of the guys you named, you might drop Smalling or Jones to give Davies a place though, and there's a fair argument that you should.
If a striker appears and scores loads you wouldn't expect the choice to be between him or Rooney but it would be fair to bring him in ahead of Welbeck or Rodriguez.
At any point you should be willing to look at the weaker members of the squad and ask if there's a player in form who deserves a call up ahead of them and in real terms that means does Delph deserve a call up ahead of Cleverley/Barkley/Henderson and the answer to all of those is yes.
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No i don't think i was missing the point, the point i suppose is what i said in an earlier post that football is a great game due in part to being all about opinions - and in this case all about the opinion of Roy Hodgson and the fact that he has upset a number of Villa fans( i'm not one of them) due to omitting Fabian Delph from his squad. Like i suppose us disagreeing with Paul Lambert's selection policy at times.
The point about Curtis Davies was meant to be tongue in cheek i suppose comparing him to Cahill & Jagielka but you make a fair point about Jones and Smalling but i suppose they are both in the squad due to their versatility.
I sincerely do NOT believe that Delph is ready for an England squad yet based on the poor quality of his first touch, he would get punished at International level because of it. If he improves that part of his game then maybe in the future....i hope so but it won't be this side of the World Cup i'm afraid to say.
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you make a fair point about Jones and Smalling but i suppose they are both in the squad due to their versatility.
I can think of a bigger link between the two of them to mean that it's likely they will be picked in an England squad.
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you make a fair point about Jones and Smalling but i suppose they are both in the squad due to their versatility.
I can think of a bigger link between the two of them to mean that it's likely they will be picked in an England squad.
It wouldn't ba a team that plays in red would it????
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I would argue given Curtis Davies's form early in the season, that an England call up wouldn't be entirely out of the blue. He's been in the squad before and a lot was expected of him when he was around 19-20, as much, if not more than Cahill at that age. I'd have him ahead of Smalling in the pecking order. In terms of versatility, England are quite solid at right back so a center half who can also play there isn't entirely necessary.
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No i don't think i was missing the point, the point i suppose is what i said in an earlier post that football is a great game due in part to being all about opinions - and in this case all about the opinion of Roy Hodgson and the fact that he has upset a number of Villa fans( i'm not one of them) due to omitting Fabian Delph from his squad. Like i suppose us disagreeing with Paul Lambert's selection policy at times.
The point about Curtis Davies was meant to be tongue in cheek i suppose comparing him to Cahill & Jagielka but you make a fair point about Jones and Smalling but i suppose they are both in the squad due to their versatility.
I sincerely do NOT believe that Delph is ready for an England squad yet based on the poor quality of his first touch, he would get punished at International level because of it. If he improves that part of his game then maybe in the future....i hope so but it won't be this side of the World Cup i'm afraid to say.
I don't know if he would struggle internationally because of his touch or not but I think his form is such that he deserves a chance to see if he can step up. There have been a lot of players over the years who have been capped despite perceived limitations. I also think his touch now is much better, heavy touches were the route of most of his bookings for a long time but not so much this season.
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Personally - I think he is not international quality - he looks good in our midfield because he is playing with others who are struggling.
He is good at what he does - but does not score or create - as others on this thread have already mentioned.
Delph is more akin to Lee Hendrie, Downing etc. - rather than Mortimer, Cowans, Milner, Barry, who were all worthy of England places
Milner doesn't belong in that list and Delph has just as good an engine as him but is more gifted with the ball at his feet.
No way is Delph more gifted with the ball at his feet than Milner, completely disagree and their careers to date back this up.
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Personally - I think he is not international quality - he looks good in our midfield because he is playing with others who are struggling.
He is good at what he does - but does not score or create - as others on this thread have already mentioned.
Delph is more akin to Lee Hendrie, Downing etc. - rather than Mortimer, Cowans, Milner, Barry, who were all worthy of England places
Milner doesn't belong in that list and Delph has just as good an engine as him but is more gifted with the ball at his feet.
Milner was outstanding in central midfield in that season he played there for us. If he hadn't gone to be a substitute winger/full back for Citeh who knows how good he'd have got. Compared to Jimmy who scored, created and tackled Delph has done next to nothing.
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No i don't think i was missing the point, the point i suppose is what i said in an earlier post that football is a great game due in part to being all about opinions - and in this case all about the opinion of Roy Hodgson and the fact that he has upset a number of Villa fans( i'm not one of them) due to omitting Fabian Delph from his squad. Like i suppose us disagreeing with Paul Lambert's selection policy at times.
The point about Curtis Davies was meant to be tongue in cheek i suppose comparing him to Cahill & Jagielka but you make a fair point about Jones and Smalling but i suppose they are both in the squad due to their versatility.
I sincerely do NOT believe that Delph is ready for an England squad yet based on the poor quality of his first touch, he would get punished at International level because of it. If he improves that part of his game then maybe in the future....i hope so but it won't be this side of the World Cup i'm afraid to say.
I don't know if he would struggle internationally because of his touch or not but I think his form is such that he deserves a chance to see if he can step up. There have been a lot of players over the years who have been capped despite perceived limitations. I also think his touch now is much better, heavy touches were the route of most of his bookings for a long time but not so much this season.
Englands game isn't entirely reliant on touch. If we've tried altering our game rather than playing too our strengths, it generally doesn't work. We'll never be like a lot of the sides in Europe who are comfortable on the ball.
England have always tended to see, what you'd call more limited players as the potential "missing link." Like Parker, Hargreaves etc. Not that Delph is all that limited, but while he might not be as comfortable with the ball as some of the other England mids, what he can offer in mobility makes him worth picking I think.
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Personally - I think he is not international quality - he looks good in our midfield because he is playing with others who are struggling.
He is good at what he does - but does not score or create - as others on this thread have already mentioned.
Delph is more akin to Lee Hendrie, Downing etc. - rather than Mortimer, Cowans, Milner, Barry, who were all worthy of England places
Milner doesn't belong in that list and Delph has just as good an engine as him but is more gifted with the ball at his feet.
Milner was outstanding in central midfield in that season he played there for us. If he hadn't gone to be a substitute winger/full back for Citeh who knows how good he'd have got. Compared to Jimmy who scored, created and tackled Delph has done next to nothing.
Agree totally meanwood - Milner was far better .
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Move to London!
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Personally - I think he is not international quality - he looks good in our midfield because he is playing with others who are struggling.
He is good at what he does - but does not score or create - as others on this thread have already mentioned.
Delph is more akin to Lee Hendrie, Downing etc. - rather than Mortimer, Cowans, Milner, Barry, who were all worthy of England places
Milner doesn't belong in that list and Delph has just as good an engine as him but is more gifted with the ball at his feet.
Milner was brilliant second half of 09/10, he carried our midfield in so many games in the run in from memory.
Delph has improved a lot and it's good to see but he's still off that level a fair bit.
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Milner created goals, and also scored goals
What exactly does Delph do better than him ?
Some people really have taken Delph's supposed ability of the charts with nothing to back it up
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Personally - I think he is not international quality - he looks good in our midfield because he is playing with others who are struggling.
He is good at what he does - but does not score or create - as others on this thread have already mentioned.
Delph is more akin to Lee Hendrie, Downing etc. - rather than Mortimer, Cowans, Milner, Barry, who were all worthy of England places
Missed out Platt.
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Personally - I think he is not international quality - he looks good in our midfield because he is playing with others who are struggling.
He is good at what he does - but does not score or create - as others on this thread have already mentioned.
Delph is more akin to Lee Hendrie, Downing etc. - rather than Mortimer, Cowans, Milner, Barry, who were all worthy of England places
Milner doesn't belong in that list and Delph has just as good an engine as him but is more gifted with the ball at his feet.
No way is Delph more gifted with the ball at his feet than Milner, completely disagree and their careers to date back this up.
This. No way would Delph be able to replicate Milner's 09/10 season. Delph stands out in an abject midfield. Milner stood out in a good midfield.
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Personally - I think he is not international quality - he looks good in our midfield because he is playing with others who are struggling.
He is good at what he does - but does not score or create - as others on this thread have already mentioned.
Delph is more akin to Lee Hendrie, Downing etc. - rather than Mortimer, Cowans, Milner, Barry, who were all worthy of England places
Milner doesn't belong in that list and Delph has just as good an engine as him but is more gifted with the ball at his feet.
No way is Delph more gifted with the ball at his feet than Milner, completely disagree and their careers to date back this up.
This. No way would Delph be able to replicate Milner's 09/10 season. Delph stands out in an abject midfield. Milner stood out in a good midfield.
Give him a chance he's been fully fit for about 6 months and look how much he's come on.
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Personally - I think he is not international quality - he looks good in our midfield because he is playing with others who are struggling.
He is good at what he does - but does not score or create - as others on this thread have already mentioned.
Delph is more akin to Lee Hendrie, Downing etc. - rather than Mortimer, Cowans, Milner, Barry, who were all worthy of England places
Milner doesn't belong in that list and Delph has just as good an engine as him but is more gifted with the ball at his feet.
No way is Delph more gifted with the ball at his feet than Milner, completely disagree and their careers to date back this up.
This. No way would Delph be able to replicate Milner's 09/10 season. Delph stands out in an abject midfield. Milner stood out in a good midfield.
Give him a chance he's been fully fit for about 6 months and look how much he's come on.
It's a fair point. There is more to come from Delph and the fact that Milner was in a good midfield helped him stand out.
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He's played very well for us and has been one of the most transformed players I've ever seen. From a player as bad as he was (and he was pretty awful at times), he's turning into a very good player for us.
Is he good enough for England? Well, if Jordan Henderson gets in the squad, then he must be pretty pissed off.
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Milner created goals, and also scored goals
What exactly does Delph do better than him ?
Some people really have taken Delph's supposed ability of the charts with nothing to back it up
I think Delph could be a better footballer than Millner,
hes not there yet and Millner has achieved, but I still think Millners footballing skills are a bit overated, he runs around gets stuck in never gives up which is all good, but actual footballing technique I reckon Delphs better
he's 23 so times on his side, hes still developing especially since his long lay of which must have set him back a bit
I have always seen Millner as a bit of a workhorse but lacking a bit in quality, whereas Delph I think has the quality we just don't know whether he will fully realise it yet
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Milner created goals, and also scored goals
What exactly does Delph do better than him ?
Some people really have taken Delph's supposed ability of the charts with nothing to back it up
He doesn't.
However, it would've been nice to have seen Delph playing as he is now, when we purchased him playing alongside Milner et al.
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Personally - I think he is not international quality - he looks good in our midfield because he is playing with others who are struggling.
He is good at what he does - but does not score or create - as others on this thread have already mentioned.
Delph is more akin to Lee Hendrie, Downing etc. - rather than Mortimer, Cowans, Milner, Barry, who were all worthy of England places
Milner doesn't belong in that list and Delph has just as good an engine as him but is more gifted with the ball at his feet.
No way is Delph more gifted with the ball at his feet than Milner, completely disagree and their careers to date back this up.
This. No way would Delph be able to replicate Milner's 09/10 season. Delph stands out in an abject midfield. Milner stood out in a good midfield.
well hes having a good go this season to be fair, MOTM in most if not all our games so far
second half down at Chelsea he was the best midfielder on the pitch, he ran them ragged, they were praying for the full time whistle, he and KEA were destrying them in the middle, that's the best ive seen him in fairness, but Millner would not be able to replicate that display either, unless he was surrounded by worldbeaters
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Milner created goals, and also scored goals
What exactly does Delph do better than him ?
Some people really have taken Delph's supposed ability of the charts with nothing to back it up
If you watch the games you can see Delph has played very well this year.
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It's a fair point. There is more to come from Delph and the fact that Milner was in a good midfield helped him stand out.
That doesn't make sense. Standing out in a good midfield is obviously more difficult then standing out in a poor midfield.
well hes having a good go this season to be fair, MOTM in most if not all our games so far
second half down at Chelsea he was the best midfielder on the pitch, he ran them ragged, they were praying for the full time whistle, he and KEA were destrying them in the middle, that's the best ive seen him in fairness, but Millner would not be able to replicate that display either, unless he was surrounded by worldbeaters
Milner in 09/10: 12 goals, 15 assists.
Delph since the turn of the year: 0 goals, 0 assists.
I really like Delph now and he is our best midfielder by a country mile but to say he is getting anywhere near to Milner's level is absurd.
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It's a fair point. There is more to come from Delph and the fact that Milner was in a good midfield helped him stand out.
That doesn't make sense. Standing out in a good midfield is obviously more difficult then standing out in a poor midfield.
well hes having a good go this season to be fair, MOTM in most if not all our games so far
second half down at Chelsea he was the best midfielder on the pitch, he ran them ragged, they were praying for the full time whistle, he and KEA were destrying them in the middle, that's the best ive seen him in fairness, but Millner would not be able to replicate that display either, unless he was surrounded by worldbeaters
Milner in 09/10: 12 goals, 15 assists.
Delph since the turn of the year: 0 goals, 0 assists.
I really like Delph now and he is our best midfielder by a country mile but to say he is getting anywhere near to Milner's level is absurd.
I agree , Delph has been superb this season , but comparing him to Milner is way off the mark for me - lets see how things are in a years time , if he keeps the consistency and cuts out the silly bookings he will be a great shout for the player of the season award.
Six months ago people were touting Westwood and Lowton for England on here - Delph is progressing nicely - lets hope we can tie him to a new deal and long may his form continue.
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It's a fair point. There is more to come from Delph and the fact that Milner was in a good midfield helped him stand out.
That doesn't make sense. Standing out in a good midfield is obviously more difficult then standing out in a poor midfield.
well hes having a good go this season to be fair, MOTM in most if not all our games so far
second half down at Chelsea he was the best midfielder on the pitch, he ran them ragged, they were praying for the full time whistle, he and KEA were destrying them in the middle, that's the best ive seen him in fairness, but Millner would not be able to replicate that display either, unless he was surrounded by worldbeaters
Milner in 09/10: 12 goals, 15 assists.
Delph since the turn of the year: 0 goals, 0 assists.
I really like Delph now and he is our best midfielder by a country mile but to say he is getting anywhere near to Milner's level is absurd.
I agree , Delph has been superb this season , but comparing him to Milner is way off the mark for me - lets see how things are in a years time , if he keeps the consistency and cuts out the silly bookings he will be a great shout for the player of the season award.
Six months ago people were touting Westwood and Lowton for England on here - Delph is progressing nicely - lets hope we can tie him to a new deal and long may his form continue.
all depends on how high you rated Milner,
I thought he was very good but not brilliant,
and I certainly wasn't one of those who was calling for Westwood to be called up, even last season I thought he was overated on here,
but everyone has there own opinions, that's what the forums about,
as for being absurd if you rate Delph the same as Miner as isa says, well I suppose that's what i'l have to be, becasuse i'l tell you something, I wouldn't swap them
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I thought Milner was showing signs of being one of the best CM's that England had at the time. Milner had a good eye for a pass actually. He also has better ball control than Delph, and the ability to really rifle the football.
If you're comparing Milner from 09/10 to Delph, there's no comparison. If you're comparing Milner now, as a fairly average but hard-working second choice wideman, then I'd take Delph.
For all his riches and some silverware, Milners biggest career mistake was moving to Man City to become a useful utility player and nothing more. Never mind Wilshere apparently being the future of Englands midfield now, had Milner stayed with us or moved elsewhere where he'd play consistently in CM, then he'd be the main man in the middle by now, in my opinion.
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That's a good point Tom.
Milner has just gone back to being a right winger workhorse he was for us for the first season and a bit after he came back albeit with a few extra medals and a much bigger bank balance.
Telling England never consider him as a central midfield option.
I still miss him though, our central midfield has been very poor since he left.
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That's a good point Tom.
Milner has just gone back to being a right winger workhorse he was for us for the first season and a bit after he came back albeit with a few extra medals and a much bigger bank balance.
Telling England never consider him as a central midfield option.
I still miss him though, our central midfield has been very poor since he left.
I think it's a measure of how good Milner was that we missed him a hell of a lot more than we missed Barry when he left. Milner almost ran our midfield on his own at times. He mopped up defensively and he scored a lot of goals and made a lot too.
We didn't make exceptional signings that summer in 09. We could conceivably have fallen away when we lost Barry, who'd been so influential for years, but Milner stepped up and we has our highest points tally under O Neill and reached a cup final.
Losing Milner, one player, the following summer, obviously in conjunction with O Neill fucking off really hit us hard. I know the timing of O Neill leaving contributed a large part but our biggest problem was losing the industry and creativity Milner gave us in CM. I think that was key in us falling from being a top 6 side to being relegation strugglers for large parts of the season. He's still not been replaced either.
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Very true Supertom. Milner was, at the time, the life and soul of that side while the whole club seemingly revolved around MON so when they both left its no wonder we looked a bit lost.
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Stirred a bit of a hornet's nest there. I've just never seen any player continue to get such widespread praise on the back of one impressive season (now four years ago...one of the reasons people used to write-off Ireland) as Milner and it gets really tiring the constant clamour to have him back.
He was a driving force for us for a few months but if he was that good a central midfielder he would have a got a run there by now at Citeh. Yet in three years he's been stuck on the bench or at best out on the right wing.
I do think Delph is technically more gifted. If he had a Barry and Petrov alongside him like Milner did in his time here Delph, in his current form, would be adding goals and assists to his game. Hopefully he still can when we get upgrades for the powder-puff players around him in the middle of the park.
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It's a fair point. There is more to come from Delph and the fact that Milner was in a good midfield helped him stand out.
That doesn't make sense. Standing out in a good midfield is obviously more difficult then standing out in a poor midfield.
Really? So a good midfield won't back you up and give you the passes to make you look good? If Fabian Delph, in his current form, played with Barry and Petrov at his best he wouldn't have more opportunities to look a whole lot better?
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Who gives a shit who plays for a England? It is nothing to do with Villa now. We are not part of the England set up.
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It's a fair point. There is more to come from Delph and the fact that Milner was in a good midfield helped him stand out.
That doesn't make sense. Standing out in a good midfield is obviously more difficult then standing out in a poor midfield.
Really? So a good midfield won't back you up and give you the passes to make you look good? If Fabian Delph, in his current form, played with Barry and Petrov at his best he wouldn't have more opportunities to look a whole lot better?
There is a difference between looking better and standing out. You are clearly unfamiliar with the 'big fish, small pond' argument.
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Delph has been our player of the month for three months and I know that might not seem a lot to other clubs supporters, but he's being getting good mentions in the media, but Woy's got his favourites and Villa players are not amongst them.
It seems Villa will have to be in the top four before any players are likely to be considered for the England squad, a sorry state from the not too long ago days of Barry, Milner, Young, Bent, Downing and Gabby. Even Walker got into the squad while at Villa, but these days, we've lost our nucleus of English players. Is this good or bad?
Why do you want him in the en-gur-lund squad....It seems every Villa player that gets into the England squad seems to get tapped up
Platt, Southgate, Ugo, Milner, Diving wankstain, Skidmark Downing.
For me, as at the mo he's integral to the Villa midfield I'm quite happy that he's nowhere near Jobbie Terry and the rest of 'em.
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If he had a Barry and Petrov alongside him like Milner did in his time here Delph, in his current form, would be adding goals and assists to his game.
I think that's a reasonable supposition.
He knows how to score (see his ngoals for Leeds) andhe's now a more mature and intelligent footballer ... he'll get better.
And, like DC5 says, what's the big deal about playing for England anyway as far as the Villa are concerned.
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Who gives a shit who plays for a England? It is nothing to do with Villa now. We are not part of the England set up.
I think the point is that there may be a chance that promising young English players may start to think they won't get into the national squad if they play for Villa, and then that is a problem for us. Delph being a case in point, it's not really a problem at the moment but if he continues to play really well and improve and still doesn't get in the squad he may feel he needs to move to fulfill any international ambitions he may have.
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Possibly pwa, but the flip side is players have got themselves into a regular squad selection at villa and moved on to then find they struggle at so so called bigger clubs and lose their England place - downing, young and Milner all looked good playing week in week out at villa but faded from scene somewhat after leaving.
If Delph continues to progress as he has done then the call up will come for him - hodgson has proved that by picking 3 from saints - playing for villa will be better for delphs England hopes than warming the bench at spurs, or Liverpool.
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Possibly pwa, but the flip side is players have got themselves into a regular squad selection at villa and moved on to then find they struggle at so so called bigger clubs and lose their England place - downing, young and Milner all looked good playing week in week out at villa but faded from scene somewhat after leaving.
If Delph continues to progress as he has done then the call up will come for him - hodgson has proved that by picking 3 from saints - playing for villa will be better for delphs England hopes than warming the bench at spurs, or Liverpool.
Is a good point but unless we suddenly return to being sponsored by Nike (Barkley) or Adidas (the three Saints) none of our players will be getting a call from England even as fringe calls for friendley squads.
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Stirred a bit of a hornet's nest there. I've just never seen any player continue to get such widespread praise on the back of one impressive season (now four years ago...one of the reasons people used to write-off Ireland) as Milner and it gets really tiring the constant clamour to have him back.
He was a driving force for us for a few months but if he was that good a central midfielder he would have a got a run there by now at Citeh. Yet in three years he's been stuck on the bench or at best out on the right wing.
I do think Delph is technically more gifted. If he had a Barry and Petrov alongside him like Milner did in his time here Delph, in his current form, would be adding goals and assists to his game. Hopefully he still can when we get upgrades for the powder-puff players around him in the middle of the park.
This X 100. I'll be happy when Milner, Young and Barry retire so there not mooted as potential loan moves every January.
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Possibly pwa, but the flip side is players have got themselves into a regular squad selection at villa and moved on to then find they struggle at so so called bigger clubs and lose their England place - downing, young and Milner all looked good playing week in week out at villa but faded from scene somewhat after leaving.
If Delph continues to progress as he has done then the call up will come for him - hodgson has proved that by picking 3 from saints - playing for villa will be better for delphs England hopes than warming the bench at spurs, or Liverpool.
Is a good point but unless we suddenly return to being sponsored by Nike (Barkley) or Adidas (the three Saints) none of our players will be getting a call from England even as fringe calls for friendley squads.
Can't work out whether you are being serious or not?
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Delph has improved so much in the past year. He used to terrify me at one time, particularly under TSM!
Now, he is just so neat and tidy. He is a lovely footballer, our engine and great to watch too.
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Maybe the illness he has had an influence on him not being included.
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Maybe the illness he has had an influence on him not being included.
Good point. Perhaps.
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I'd like to see Delph given more licence to go forward beyond the strikers. That was the type of player he was at Leeds.
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Delph had recovered from illness but has picked up a knee injury. Hopefully not serious I think we'll find out more today
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I'd like to see Delph given more licence to go forward beyond the strikers. That was the type of player he was at Leeds.
Well, if they play it like they did on Saturday, with Westwood going deeper to pick up the ball, he might get that chance.
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So Delph has hurt his knee then, I really hope it clears up quickly.
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So Delph has hurt his knee then, I really hope it clears up quickly.
Expected to be fit according to kendrick for the baggies game - nothing serious.
@MatKendrick: Fab news: Fabian Delph and some of #avfc other injured players should be back for Albion derby http://t.co/zZJy4jdEiw
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For me Delph is becoming like our very own Gerrard or Viera, i do think he is becoming very good.
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Woy says there will be no surprises in his Brazil 2014 team - so a kick in the nuts to Fabian and all the other 'fringe' players hoping to catch the eye 7 months before the tournament starts.
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Exactly.
What a great de-motivator Woy is.
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Woy says there will be no surprises in his Brazil 2014 team - so a kick in the nuts to Fabian and all the other 'fringe' players hoping to catch the eye 7 months before the tournament starts.
It also means the likes of Lampard and Defoe are going to make it as well. At least he's ruled John Terry out which is good I suppose.
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If by no surprises he means that we'll be as fucking wretched to watch as we expect, then I'm sure that'll be true.
Not sure what he can't see in Delphy. We could have done with a bit of midfield drive in the last two games, which only highlighted how technically inferior we are to any half decent side. Be it Chile, or the German 2nd string.
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Woy says there will be no surprises in his Brazil 2014 team - so a kick in the nuts to Fabian and all the other 'fringe' players hoping to catch the eye 7 months before the tournament starts.
I'm assuming this means no Morrison, Barkley or Delph either, which would be stupid imo.
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Score and create more would seem the logical answer to the question. He did both on Wednesday, but so did Barry Bannan for Palace in their last two games.
It's consistency that'll push him up the pecking order. And i'm not sure he's doing anything other members of the squad aren't in Roy's mind at the moment. But he (Delph) has 6 months to make him sit up and take notice if he really wants to be on the plane to Brazil.
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Score and create more would seem the logical answer to the question. He did both on Wednesday, but so did Barry Bannan for Palace in their last two games.
It's consistency that'll push him up the pecking order. And i'm not sure he's doing anything other members of the squad aren't in Roy's mind at the moment. But he (Delph) has 6 months to make him sit up and take notice if he really wants to be on the plane to Brazil.
Delphy has the potential to get goals from midfield. If he can get half a dozen this season it'll be a reasonable return. He's got it in his locker. If he puts away a few more before the next squad announcement, Woy may have to take notice.
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I think by no surprises he isn't going to do what Sven did and take Walcott with intention of playing him. He'll hopefully take players who deserve to be there and that means players who have worked their way into the squad by the time they leave. If he continues playing well I hope Delph will be impossible not to take. Lampard and Gerrard if healthy are guaranteed to be there as much for their experience as anything else.
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If i was Woy i would give serious consideration to taking Delph and Gabby. Just an idea.
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He is young, energetic, good on the ball and wants to take the game to the opposition.
He is the opposite of a Hodgson player, so no he doesnt have what it takes.
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What he needs to do is find a portal into Tom Cleverleys' mind, ala Being John Malkovich.
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What he needs to do is find a portal into Tom Cleverleys' mind, ala Being John Malkovich.
I think there's a pub team player somewhere who's already occupying Cleverley's body.
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He needs to get a few sub appearances for Man U, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal or Man City. He'll be on the plane in no time.
Seriously though, if he continues this form, he can't keep being ignored. Can he?
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Delph is a poor player and has no business playing with Woy's superstars who will try and tempt him to join their poncy clubs.
You're wight, woy, Delph is no good.
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It will be the death knell of Delph if he gets picked for England. Keep well away. The shrieking, pub-going, office girls in town, while we are in Brazil, will know no different.
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How Cleverly is picked over Delph, maybe even Livermore who has played well at times for Hull this season, and certainly Huddlestone for example is the most clear basis of he is a Man U squad player and thus better than anyone who is actually any good.
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Easy. He need to leave Villa and not play regular football by becoming a fringe squad member/bench warmer at Mancity/manure /Chelsea.
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http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/29327/9069751/fabian-delph-should-be-on-englands-radar-says-jamie-carragher
Jamie Carragher 8)
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As alot of people have said do we really want him to be part of the squad?
One of the "bigger clubs" players will no doubt have a word in his ear and we could potentially lose our best midfielder because he has been picked for a competition we have no chance of winning
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Flattery will get you everywhere Jamie.
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Better late than never.
Arsenal's Calum Chambers is expected to be included in England's first squad since last summer's World Cup.
The defender is likely to be rewarded for several impressive displays since a £16m summer move from Southampton when the squad is named on Thursday.
Tottenham defender Danny Rose and Aston Villa midfielder Fabian Delph are also tipped to be in Roy Hodgson's squad.
Hodgson is also expected to name a new captain to replace Steven Gerrard, with Wayne Rooney favourite for the role.
England play a friendly against Norway at Wembley Stadium on 3 September and the opening match of their Euro 2016 qualifying campaign in Switzerland on 8 September.
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I fully expect him not to sign a new contract now.
Anyway, fair plays. Long overdue. Well done, matey.
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Good for him. Well deserved.
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I fully expect him not to sign a new contract now.
Anyway, fair plays. Long overdue. Well done, matey.
Why not?
I can't see him suddenly becoming Billy Big Bollox just because he's been chosen in what is let's face it, a pretty mediocre England squad.
If he played in a few international games and looked world class then things might be a bit different.
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unfortunately, MOVE
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England squad: Forster (Southampton), Foster (West Brom), Hart (Manchester City); Baines (Everton), Cahill (Chelsea), Chambers (Arsenal), Jagielka (Everton), Jones (Manchester United), Rose (Tottenham), Stones (Everton); Colback (Newcastle), Delph (Aston Villa), Henderson (Liverpool), Milner (Manchester City), Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal), Sterling (Liverpool), Townsend (Tottenham), Wilshere (Arsenal); Lambert (Liverpool), Rooney (Manchester United), Sturridge (Liverpool), Welbeck (Manchester United).
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Well done to Delph, but that is a really awful England squad isn't it.
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Pleased for Delph to finally get a chance (although listening to talkshite this morning they were pretty dismissive of him (particuarly Adrian Clarke)
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does this increase our representing Villa players for England ratio to about 68 now ?
UTV
The Doc
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He's not done it yet - J Lloyd Samuel and Curtis Davies both made it as far as the squad but didn't add to our tally.
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He's not done it yet - J Lloyd Samuel and Curtis Davies both made it as far as the squad but didn't add to our tally.
ah got ya.........:)
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Well done to Delph, but that is a really awful England squad isn't it.
Oh I don't know. John Stones is in there .
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Well done to Delph, but that is a really awful England squad isn't it.
There are some real head scratching choices in there. Danny Rose? Jack Colback? Looking at it, I think Delph has every chance of getting in the starting XI.
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Well done to Delph, but that is a really awful England squad isn't it.
Oh I don't know. John Stones is in there .
Not mention Jack Wilshire - he really has the making of a World Class player according to some.
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He's not done it yet - J Lloyd Samuel and Curtis Davies both made it as far as the squad but didn't add to our tally.
Any others in that category? Warnock?
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From wikipedia:
After impressing with Aston Villa in the early 2009–10 season Warnock received a call up to the international squad once more for a friendly against Egypt. On 11 May 2010, Warnock was named in the 30-man provisional squad for the 2010 World Cup in South Africa. On 1 June 2010, he was named in the final 23-man selection by manager Fabio Capello, ahead of other left back Leighton Baines. Due to the widely accepted adeptness of Ashley Cole at left-back, Warnock did not feature in any of England's matches during their short-lived run in the World Cup which ended against Germany.
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Warnock played in a friendly though, I believe. We have quite a number of 1 cap wonders. Delph will be England player number 72 should he get a run out:
http://www.lerwill-life.org.uk/astonvilla/england_players.htm
It's a terrible squad though in general. Rooney being made Captain says it all - there are nowhere near enough other players who convince as international players let alone Captain. Eight or nine years ago you could pick from Beckham, Gerrard, Ferdinand, Campbell, Lampard etc etc
They really do need to address the lack of English players playing in the top flight. Those that do get through just end up being thrown into the squad far too early out of utter desperation, like Chambers.
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Congratulations Fabian well earned, please let him be offered and sign a new deal.
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I'm getting tickets for the Norway game now. Glad he's finally got a call up, he deserves it!
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Glad for the lad, hope he doesn't come back with the I wanna leave attitude that affected some of the other lads that have played
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Bye Fabian .
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They really do need to address the lack of English players playing in the top flight.
They just need to train and develop better English players, regardless of where they are playing.
Nathan Baker has been a Premier League player for three years now, it's not turned him into somebody good enough for International football.
If the league is full of Nathan Bakers it's not going to make a jot of difference to how good the England squad looks.
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I'm pleased for Fabian I just hope he stays with us and signs a new contract.
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They really do need to address the lack of English players playing in the top flight.
They just need to train and develop better English players, regardless of where they are playing.
Nathan Baker has been a Premier League player for three years now, it's not turned him into somebody good enough for International football.
If the league is full of Nathan Bakers it's not going to make a jot of difference how good the England squad looks.
Disagree. England have been able to produce players that hold their own at intenrational, and often get close to winning things, up to the U-19, 20 and 21 levels. it's after that that there are problems. That suggests that the coaching and development is there up to the late teens and early 20s. Obviously the lack of space for ENglish players in Premier League teams is a problem but I think the biggest problem is British football culture.
Our type of football is 100 miles an hour. Whether you are the most adept skillful player or not anyone would struggle with their technique if for 90 minutes you can never slow the game down and look for a pass. The reason our league is advocated as being the best is because of the excitement levels for the armchair fan. Technique goes out of the window to a large extent as the urge to press and get the ball forward is ever growing.
And that's down to the fans. If we pass the ball 30 or 40 times but keep possession the crowd would start to get restless. That it ends up in the back of the net wouldn't be recognised until it happens. That the team may be keeping possession looking for a gap, a chink, a weak link before pushing to goal is seen as an alien concept and 'get on with it' is more common place than enjoying the possession and waiting for the chance to avail of itself. We can't have it both ways. We either develop technique but sacrifice 100 mph football or we stay with our exciting league and accept that the technique of a player will be compromised, and also that England will be lucky to progress deep into senior level competitions.
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I wouldn't really disagree with any of that.
However, I don't think (and I'm not sure that you've suggested either) that just meaning more English players are playing in the atmosphere that you describe is really going to suddenly make the England team better.
On another point you raise, I suspect that the main reason England do well at youth level is because of the added physicality. If you've got a team of fast, 13 stone players playing against a team of technically intricate weaklings then at that age it will be a big advantage. When the players from both those teams are 27, the physical advantage is far less pronounced, but one team has a much better technical level to fall back upon.
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They really do need to address the lack of English players playing in the top flight.
They just need to train and develop better English players, regardless of where they are playing.
Nathan Baker has been a Premier League player for three years now, it's not turned him into somebody good enough for International football.
If the league is full of Nathan Bakers it's not going to make a jot of difference to how good the England squad looks.
Agreed but it helps if players get the opportunity and the chance to improve before becoming demoralised. We aren't doing a great deal different in terms of developing players in comparison to twenty or thirty years ago yet we haven't produced anything like the volume of good international quality players. Players with the natural flair of Waddle, Gascoigne, McManaman etc aren't anywhere to be found these days. We aren't even producing the natural athletes that we have always produced now but then those that do show promise struggle to break through at top clubs such as Zaha and the like. And then there's the central defender situation which is absolutely desperate now. There's a lot wrong, we shouldn't be having to fast track players into the national squad after 20 appearances in the league, it's ridiculous.
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They really do need to address the lack of English players playing in the top flight.
They just need to train and develop better English players, regardless of where they are playing.
Nathan Baker has been a Premier League player for three years now, it's not turned him into somebody good enough for International football.
If the league is full of Nathan Bakers it's not going to make a jot of difference how good the England squad looks.
Disagree. England have been able to produce players that hold their own at intenrational, and often get close to winning things, up to the U-19, 20 and 21 levels. it's after that that there are problems. That suggests that the coaching and development is there up to the late teens and early 20s. Obviously the lack of space for ENglish players in Premier League teams is a problem but I think the biggest problem is British football culture.
Our type of football is 100 miles an hour. Whether you are the most adept skillful player or not anyone would struggle with their technique if for 90 minutes you can never slow the game down and look for a pass. The reason our league is advocated as being the best is because of the excitement levels for the armchair fan. Technique goes out of the window to a large extent as the urge to press and get the ball forward is ever growing.
And that's down to the fans. If we pass the ball 30 or 40 times but keep possession the crowd would start to get restless. That it ends up in the back of the net wouldn't be recognised until it happens. That the team may be keeping possession looking for a gap, a chink, a weak link before pushing to goal is seen as an alien concept and 'get on with it' is more common place than enjoying the possession and waiting for the chance to avail of itself. We can't have it both ways. We either develop technique but sacrifice 100 mph football or we stay with our exciting league and accept that the technique of a player will be compromised, and also that England will be lucky to progress deep into senior level competitions.
Players from abroad seem to come in and maintain their technical ability whilst abating the apparently restless crowds.
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Well done Fabian. Pleased that we can watch England games and enjoy them if only for the fact that we have a Villa player in there.
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Delighted for him, but ultimately this is only going to end one way
He'll be of
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Oh well that's him gone then. His head will be turned at training like very villa player before him who got called up.
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They really do need to address the lack of English players playing in the top flight.
They just need to train and develop better English players, regardless of where they are playing.
Nathan Baker has been a Premier League player for three years now, it's not turned him into somebody good enough for International football.
If the league is full of Nathan Bakers it's not going to make a jot of difference how good the England squad looks.
Disagree. England have been able to produce players that hold their own at intenrational, and often get close to winning things, up to the U-19, 20 and 21 levels. it's after that that there are problems. That suggests that the coaching and development is there up to the late teens and early 20s. Obviously the lack of space for ENglish players in Premier League teams is a problem but I think the biggest problem is British football culture.
Our type of football is 100 miles an hour. Whether you are the most adept skillful player or not anyone would struggle with their technique if for 90 minutes you can never slow the game down and look for a pass. The reason our league is advocated as being the best is because of the excitement levels for the armchair fan. Technique goes out of the window to a large extent as the urge to press and get the ball forward is ever growing.
And that's down to the fans. If we pass the ball 30 or 40 times but keep possession the crowd would start to get restless. That it ends up in the back of the net wouldn't be recognised until it happens. That the team may be keeping possession looking for a gap, a chink, a weak link before pushing to goal is seen as an alien concept and 'get on with it' is more common place than enjoying the possession and waiting for the chance to avail of itself. We can't have it both ways. We either develop technique but sacrifice 100 mph football or we stay with our exciting league and accept that the technique of a player will be compromised, and also that England will be lucky to progress deep into senior level competitions.
Players from abroad seem to come in and maintain their technical ability whilst abating the apparently restless crowds.
Yes but the very few that have been able to do that aren't necessarily those that have stood out in their own football. Thus they were more suited to English (British) football. But of course there are some that do well Zola for instance mcManaman doing well at Real madrid also shows that some players are just suited to certain football.
As for Dave's post English certainly do not have a physical advantage at the same age. Although to perhaps contradict that there are more that tend to have broken into first-teams at club level at an early age than many other international teams.
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As for Dave's post English certainly do not have a physical advantage at the same age.
Oh, that's fine then. Peter says that they don't, so case closed.
Apart from the whole thing about speed and physicality being what youth coaches would look for rather than tactical awareness or technical ability.
Physicality in grass roots football coaching (http://www.thecoachingmanual.com/soccer/blog/physicality-in-grass-roots-football-coaching-191)
FA Chairman says that coaching needs to place less emphasis on physicality (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/9804496/Chairman-David-Bernstein-pointing-Football-Association-in-right-direction-ahead-of-150th-anniversary.html)
FA review says that kids have been taught for too long to play like adults (http://www.thefa.com/my-football/player/youth-football/youth-development-review)
Experienced heads are calling for less emphasis on physical dominance in youth football. They’re concerned that naturally taller, faster and stronger young players are being valued in youth football over what might be smaller, yet more skilful, intelligent and technique-driven youngsters.
The problem seems to stem from a "results driven" environment even at informal/Sunday league level. According to Jamie Carragher this "get stuck in" mentality might be harder to unlock than first thought. Even at professional levels the English mandate seems to be to utilise physical dominance in order to "stop them playing". “Them” usually being a rounded team of elegant and passionate professionals from overseas.
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As for Dave's post English certainly do not have a physical advantage at the same age.
Oh, that's fine then. Peter says that they don't, so case closed.
Apart from the whole thing about speed and physicality being what youth coaches would look for rather than tactical awareness or technical ability.
Physicality in grass roots football coaching (http://www.thecoachingmanual.com/soccer/blog/physicality-in-grass-roots-football-coaching-191)
FA Chairman says that coaching needs to place less emphasis on physicality (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/9804496/Chairman-David-Bernstein-pointing-Football-Association-in-right-direction-ahead-of-150th-anniversary.html)
FA review says that kids have been taught for too long to play like adults (http://www.thefa.com/my-football/player/youth-football/youth-development-review)
Experienced heads are calling for less emphasis on physical dominance in youth football. They’re concerned that naturally taller, faster and stronger young players are being valued in youth football over what might be smaller, yet more skilful, intelligent and technique-driven youngsters.
The problem seems to stem from a "results driven" environment even at informal/Sunday league level. According to Jamie Carragher this "get stuck in" mentality might be harder to unlock than first thought. Even at professional levels the English mandate seems to be to utilise physical dominance in order to "stop them playing". “Them” usually being a rounded team of elegant and passionate professionals from overseas.
Christ get over yourself. You don't like a different opinion to yours do you? just put a star next to the points you want to have stated as fact and then the ones you want to debate. otherwise stop acting the fool when there's a different point of view. Do you have friends in the real world? I mean, really? And if so do you act similarly with them?
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Oh well that's him gone then. His head will be turned at training like very villa player before him who got called up.
Apart from gabby
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Christ get over yourself. You don't like a different opinion to yours do you? just put a star next to the points you want to have stated as fact and then the ones you want to debate. otherwise stop acting the fool when there's a different point of view. Do you have friends in the real world? I mean, really? And if so do you act similarly with them?
I'm happy for people to hold whatever opinion they like, as long as it's backed up. Your blanket dismissal of my point without adding anything to refute it wasn't doing that. So I replied in kind.
And considering you've been banned from posting here twice in the past, you might want to consider winding your neck in a little bit.
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And now you're bringing up being banned because of not liking the dismissive manner of your post. You really are something aren't you?
If you want to just talk about the point then I'm happy to do so.
You brought up physicality and I said that English players are not more physical than others. And they're not. Just because you've added links to say that young players are coached in physicality does not mean that by the ages I referred to that they're more physical than anyone. You haven't backed up your [point by any scientific evidence to prove what you said. Therefore what science do i need to produce to counter your point?
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You're the one that has for some reason turned this into some sort of personal affront. You can get as uppity as you like, but you're the one that brought us to this level. I simply pointed out that you might want to calm down a bit.
If youth coaching in this country has always prioritised physical prowess over technical prowess (and as the coaches themselves have said that is the case, and they are now trying to change that mentality it I think we can safely say that it's true) in coaching teenagers then I don't see it as a massive leap to suggest that they might be physically stronger and faster than players who haven't been picked because of their physical attributes. As that is a principle reason for why they are there in the first place.
You don't NEED to produce any science. If you want to make a point though, something to back up why you have that opinion might make it easier for people to understand why you think that. I could easily be wrong, but at least I'm offering a reason for what I think to be the case. Which also happens to be backed up by the result - England being better at youth football then senior football.
Instead of "pfft, well it just is". You know, like those dismissive posts that get you upset.
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You brought up physicality as the reason we do well at U19 to U21 levels. I disagreed. You have not shown any evidence that we do well up to the levels that I mentioned because of physicality. Not one shred. yet you want me to give you a backed up response as to why i disagree? You show me your scientific research and I'll accept the point. Until then all you're offering is an opinion. With which I disagreed. it was then you got uppity and so did i in return.
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You brought up physicality as the reason we do well at U19 to U21 levels. I disagreed. You have not shown any evidence that we do well up to the levels that I mentioned because of physicality. Not one shred. yet you want me to give you a backed up response as to why i disagree? You show me your scientific research and I'll accept the point. Until then all you're offering is an opinion. With which I disagreed. it was then you got uppity and so did i in return.
As I've said, I'm offering an opinion and a reason why I hold that opinion. You're offering nothing more than "that's wrong" with nothing more to say about why.
If you're not going to go any further than "you're wrong but I'm not going to give any reasons why you're wrong" then I can't really see this as a discussion worth carrying on with.
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In fairness Peter W, when you come out with comments like 'have you got any friends in the real world' when discussing football on a forum, then expect a response back.
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Great news after a depressing day Fabian is named in the squad to play Norway and the Swiss.
Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Southampton), Ben Foster (West Bromwich Albion), Joe Hart (Manchester City)
Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Calum Chambers (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), John Stones (Everton)
Midfielders: Jack Colback (Newcastle United), Fabian Delph (Aston Villa), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), James Milner (Manchester City), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) Raheem Sterling (Liverpool), Andros Townsend (Tottenham Hotspur), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)
Forwards: Rickie Lambert (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Danny Welbeck (Manchester United)
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Where's cleverley Hodgson out !!!!!
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In fairness Peter W, when you come out with comments like 'have you got any friends in the real world' when discussing football on a forum, then expect a response back.
Fair enough.
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You brought up physicality as the reason we do well at U19 to U21 levels. I disagreed. You have not shown any evidence that we do well up to the levels that I mentioned because of physicality. Not one shred. yet you want me to give you a backed up response as to why i disagree? You show me your scientific research and I'll accept the point. Until then all you're offering is an opinion. With which I disagreed. it was then you got uppity and so did i in return.
As I've said, I'm offering an opinion and a reason why I hold that opinion. You're offering nothing more than "that's wrong" with nothing more to say about why.
If you're not going to go any further than "you're wrong but I'm not going to give any reasons why you're wrong" then I can't really see this as a discussion worth carrying on with.
So your opinion and reason was:
"If you've got a team of fast, 13 stone players playing against a team of technically intricate weaklings then at that age it will be a big advantage"
and backed that opinion up with no evidence that anything like that has happened with any English teams in any level of representative football. Then when I disagree you retort with:
"Oh, that's fine then. Peter says that they don't, so case closed."
No evidence was used other than opinion and I used my opinion.
Anyway, let Roberto martinez lead me:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/12/roberto-martinez-english-youth-everton
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To reiterate, my reasoning was:
"If youth coaching in this country has always prioritised physical prowess over technical prowess (and as the coaches themselves have said that is the case, and they are now trying to change that mentality it I think we can safely say that it's true) in coaching teenagers then I don't see it as a massive leap to suggest that they might be physically stronger and faster than players who haven't been picked because of their physical attributes. As that is a principle reason for why they are there in the first place"
Which is then likely to be equalized as those not picked for their size, strength and speed develop physically.
I don't see that as a particularly controversial opinion. Which bit of that do you disagree with, that coaching in England has prioritised physicality over technical ability or that as other players get older they might catch up with those stronger players?
The interview with Martinez, it's very interesting - but I'm not sure how it disputes what I've said above.
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Because you gave an opinion not backed up by anything scientific. That's all Martinez has, an opinion. And you. And me. Doesn't make it right just an opinion and no more or less valid than any other opinion.
You can find various facts and figures about coaching in this country to back up either side. But it doesn't change that I do not find physicality as the reason why we do not see English/British players progress. I already said what I thought the problem was and that being the psyche of our game especially in fans. You can be coached however you want but running around at 100 miles an hour is not conducive to seeing technical football for the connoisseur.
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Because you gave an opinion not backed up by anything scientific. That's all Martinez has, an opinion. And you. And me. Doesn't make it right just an opinion and no more or less valid than any other opinion.
They're all valid opinions, it's just that the interview with Martinez (while chock full of valid opinion), doesn't really make any reference to this discussion that you and I are having.
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Well done Delph, England at last.
Superb.
What an accomplishment.
Now go do that voodoo that you do so well,
UTV!
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To carry on the conversation from yesterday a little, England do better at youth level (right up to U21) than at senior level. The main reason for that is that traditionally players have been picked for their physical suitability to a role and then given the basic skillset to complete that role. So we get, for example, strikers who are mega fast, fairly composed and can time an arced run into the box well to be picked out by a 40yard punt. At lower age groups the defenders just don't have the positional experience to handle those runs, and generally don't have the recovery pace to get back.
The main area where you see the difference is close control, far too many players who come through the English system struggle to bring a ball down and keep it under control, particularly when there are defenders near. As I've pointed out before, this is almost entirely down to the amount of time they spend with the ball at youth levels. I read something from one of the coaches who worked with, I think, Capello where he talked about it, basically the number of touches per player in a training session is about a third of the equivalent sessions in spain and italy.
This happens because we're too competitive at youth level and the focus is on winning by whatever means available.
The first change I'd make is to make 11-16 level split into 2 games, 1 with normal rules the other with 5-7 a-side, small pitches and the ball staying below head height, actually force teams to win by keeping possession and moving off the ball. That eliminates height and pace from the game, add in very strict rules about tackling/challenges which protect the smaller players and strength gets removed as well.
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Although I agree in part this is not borne out of any proven statistics. When we were dominant in Europe are football was even more direct and physical than it is today but it didn't translate to the international stage. Also, when looking at football coaching you have to look at the prevailing football culture in countries.
Also, football academies in England are a far-sight different nowadays from many years ago with a different slant on the Charles Hughes book of (stats led) getting the ball forward as quickly as possible.
England usually tend to get to the quarter-finals stages and rarely go further, but it's also very rare England are beaten by lower 'ranked' teams but supposedly technically superior. look at Chile and germany as examples. The football they play is fast and physical. There are elements of skill there too but they do not stand out as being technically better than us. Just better teams with better players. That happens.
There is the coaching there when in the club set-ups and the win at all costs is usually for parks football but is still wrong. I don't agree with moving height and pace off the ball because that is exactly the counter-attacking tactics of the best team in the world. Similarly I wouldn't play one touch football for young players when training. Two or three touch is more beneficial as it teaches players to get used to the ball and be comfortable with the ball.
Watching younger players for England and technically they are fine. They do lnock the ball out of defence and can pass and trap a ball. All aspects of the game that they should learn. Pace and athleticism is also a vital part of the game and there have not been mamny successful modern teams that do not have both in abundance. Barcelona and Spain were so good because of a very high work ethic and fitness levels to get the ball back as soon as they lose it and to keep passing and moving to get teams to lose their shape. That is not just technique but a lot of hard work.
We need to work out how to combine fast flowing football with pace and athleticism to win at the highest levels. I disagree the problem is with youth coaching but how those players are then integrated into senior teams and then its a win at all costs mentalities, with little time given for a player to make mistakes and develop.
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Shanks changed Liverpool from a direct up-and-at-'em team to a more technical outfit after a home defeat to a team from Czechoslovakia(?) who passed his side to death at Anfield.
Shankly realised that a new, more patient approach was needed; Paisley carried this on and reaped the full benefits later in the decade.
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Shanks changed Liverpool from a direct up-and-at-'em team to a more technical outfit after a home defeat to a team from Czechoslovakia(?) who passed his side to death at Anfield.
Shankly realised that a new, more patient approach was needed; Paisley carried this on and reaped the full benefits later in the decade.
Ajax in 1967, I think.
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Doesn't it go : called up, tapped up and off he goes.
I hope not but with him being in the last year of his contract we need to move fast and sign him up for another 3-4 years.
I always fear the worst when our players get called up for England duty.
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However the England camp is now clean of superstars like Gerrard, Neville, Scholes, Lampard and Terry the main tappers!
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No, Dave.
The Ajax thrashing was in 1966/7. Shankly blamed that defeat on fog in Amsterdam!(sic)
The Damascene conversion came after a defeat in about 1973, I think.
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No, Dave.
The Ajax thrashing was in 1966/7. Shankly blamed that defeat on fog in Amsterdam!(sic)
The Damascene conversion came after a defeat in about 1973, I think.
He left in 1974 so I doubt it. I've just been reading something about how he saw the Ajax game as a great revelation but it may be wrong.
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Shankly was never without the idea that football was largely done better in Europe. Like everyone else, he was greatly affected by the Hungarian victories of the fifties, but unlike many English, whose wounded pride caused them to desperately proclaim Wolves' bog-assisted defeat of Honved in 1955 as proof that England still ruled the footballing waves, Scots like Shankly, Busby and Stein felt no cringe in recognising the superiority of the new ways. (Of course, these were old ways to the Scots - the previously dominant nation, Uruguay, played a passing style still called 'La Scosia' after the pattern-weaving style invented and exported by Scotland in the 1880s. This is one reason Villa won fecking everything in the 1890s/1900s - our Scottish influence was borne out in the style, and the rest of England plodded in our wake.)
Ajax was important too, as was the new success of Feyenoord, and losing to Red Star Belgrade right at the end of his time in charge confirmed him, Paisley et al in their ideas, but the ground was really already broken by the early 50s.
Edit: on England, the main problem now is probably not technique (although it's still surprisingly lacking sometimes) but mentality tactical intelligence. The English players thriving for good tacticians at club level generally do so because they've been gently deprived of complex tactical responsibility - Gerrard under Benitez, Rooney under Ferguson (and his assistants), Walcott, Sturridge etc all essentially have or had free roles, and expensive imports like Xabi Alonso, Mikel Arteta, Luis Suarez etc pick up the slack tactically and go in the right spaces when needed. The great exceptions are the Chelsea players, Frank and The Two Twats Terry & Cole, but the bulk of the England team are nowhere near Spain, Holland, Germany, Italy or Argentina for tactical intelligence.
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Good news for Delph. Had his best season yet for us last year and has made a decent start to this one. If not for the lack of options for England then I doubt he would have made the squad, but he has his chance now, and what else are friendlies for anyway?
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Thanks, Monty.
Red Star Belgrade it was.
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Colback's out of tomorrow's game with an injury.
Would it be a good idea for a Mod to amend the thread title ?
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Yes to what does Delph have to do to get a new contract.
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Doesn't it go : called up, tapped up and off he goes.
I hope not but with him being in the last year of his contract we need to move fast and sign him up for another 3-4 years.
I always fear the worst when our players get called up for England duty.
Damn right, best player on our books, get him signed up
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Would like to wish him all the best for tonight if he gets on. Always good to see our club being represented at international level.
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I hope he gets some time on the pitch tonight and does himself justice, good luck Fab. Villa please get him to sign a contract asap.
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I reckon one of us should go then get a photo with him, and an autograph. Obviously the paper he signs will be a new contract folded up a bit so it doesn't look like one
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In fairness Peter W, when you come out with comments like 'have you got any friends in the real world' when discussing football on a forum, then expect a response back.
Yes, very offensive to those of us with no friends.
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Expect him to come on at half time tonight. I would start him personally.
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In fairness Peter W, when you come out with comments like 'have you got any friends in the real world' when discussing football on a forum, then expect a response back.
Yes, very offensive to those of us with no friends.
Yeah, those types of twats have to meet people from the internet. Oh, hang on...
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Waves.
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Are dirty Leeds due another instalment if he plays tonight?
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Are dirty Leeds due another instalment if he plays tonight?
Doubt it after all this time but you never know.
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Wasn't he signed at a time when we were throwing around whatever money clubs wanted rather than negotiating sensible, performance based transfer fees?
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I hope Delph will remember who stood by him when he was out injured for a long while now that he is a super star.
I think it's a disgrace that Super super Tom is not in the squad. He is part of the new "golgen" for England.
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4-4-2 apparently according to sky. It doesn't look like the players for a 442 to me.
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Wasn't he signed at a time when we were throwing around whatever money clubs wanted rather than negotiating sensible, performance based transfer fees?
Not really. We only spent 8m for NRC, 10m for Davies, 4m for Harewood.
:o
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Wasn't he signed at a time when we were throwing around whatever money clubs wanted rather than negotiating sensible, performance based transfer fees?
Not really. We only spent 8m for NRC, 10m for Davies, 4m for Harewood.
:o
Not forgetting £8m for warnock, £6m Collins , £4m Beye. Oh how we rolled back in the day.
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4-4-2 apparently according to sky. It doesn't look like the players for a 442 to me.
Oxlade-Chamberlain and Sterling as wingers?
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Wembley looks as empty as it used to be in the 80s for friendlies. And home internationals against Wales and N Ireland.
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Looks like the Liverpool-type 4-4-2, where the strikers double as the wide players and all the midfielders are central. Suits the players that, I think.
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Good to see Delph come on with 20 minutes to go.
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He's made a good impression, now give him a new deal asap Villa.
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Did well when he came on. Well done Delphy.
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He did ok. You have to consider the enormous drag factor of playing for Hodgson.
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Did anyone notice what appeared to be Sterling having a moan at Delph at full time? Delph looked a bit dejected.
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Did anyone notice what appeared to be Sterling having a moan at Delph at full time? Delph looked a bit dejected.
No.
To be honest watching him get hid 20 mins nobody really looked up to pass to him. I'd have felt a bit dejected as well if you're in good positions to receive the ball and making your debut.
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Did anyone else think Sterling and Sturridge are determined to only pass to each other?
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Did anyone notice what appeared to be Sterling having a moan at Delph at full time? Delph looked a bit dejected.
I did. I think it was because Delph was confused by the formation and wandered out of position into where Sterling was. Sterling has a point.
I blame Hodgson :)
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Did anyone notice what appeared to be Sterling having a moan at Delph at full time? Delph looked a bit dejected.
yup saw it,what a jumped up little twat,Delphy looked at him as if to say bollocks!
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Did anyone notice what appeared to be Sterling having a moan at Delph at full time? Delph looked a bit dejected.
yup saw it,what a jumped up little twat,Delphy looked at him as if to say bollocks!
Nailed on yellow card at Anfield.
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Did anyone else think Sterling and Sturridge are determined to only pass to each other?
Sturridge doesn't look to pass to anyone, it happens by mistake sometimes but he's the greediest player I've ever seen.
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easy tactics against 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' then double mark sturridge and sterling then push everyone else up. They only pass to each other anyway
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I think Defoe is the greediest player I've ever seen! Particularly when playing for England!
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Waves.
Waves back.
oh shit.
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Didn't john stones do well
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(http://www.simplyhe.co.uk/easy-listening/511586-didn-t-he-do-well-the-collection-bruce-forsyth-0600753243831.html)
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Well done to him for making his debut tonight. We really need to think up a decent song for him, a proper one that isn't the same one we have for Bent.
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I kept on thinking 'why aren't they passing it to him?'. Glad it wasn't just me. It's a bit of a love-in though england. He's not one of the crew, seems a decent chap.
MOTM Delphy for me, stole the fucking show.
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Breath of fresh air wasn't he ,England are so hard to watch under this twat
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Did well and injected some much needed energy into an insepid midfield.
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Did well and injected some much needed energy into an insepid midfield.
On the flip side, Milner looked way off it. His contribution was summed up by that mis-hit pass that went straight out of play 25 yards away from the nearest England player.
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Sad to see what Milner has become. What a waste.
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Yeah but he's only crap cos he never plays centrally anymore etc. etc.
Give me Delph over "Milly" any day.
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Did anyone else think Sterling and Sturridge are determined to only pass to each other?
Not so much Sterling, I think he's a smarter player than that, but I thought it was obvious that Sturridge was only ever interested in passing if it was to Sterling. Sturridge always frustrates me because he frequently makes the wrong choice in possession - has an extra touch, picks the wrong pass, often he just shoots when someone else is better placed. I'm not sure he's got any footballing brain at all. I think tonight he only passed when he heard Sterling chirrup for the ball. (I don't think Sterling shouts for the ball, I think it's too weedy to qualify as a shout, it's more a sort of yelp, like a sparrow might make if you stood on his toe).
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What a player that Wiltshire is
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He looked 2-3 years ago like he would become a top quality central midfielder, but he is now a worse player than Henderson!
I actually think there would have been a case to give Henderson the armband.
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Breath of fresh air wasn't he ,England are so hard to watch under this twat
Under this twat?
Have you not watched England the last 15 years?
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Breath of fresh air wasn't he ,England are so hard to watch under this twat
Under this twat?
Have you not watched England the last 15 years?
That's what I thought. I think you have to go back as far as Sven for an entertaining England team and Sven is way more of a twat than Roy in my opinion.
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Wembley looks as empty as it used to be in the 80s for friendlies. And home internationals against Wales and N Ireland.
40,000 for an England game, 28,000 at the Villa.
Bubble well and truly bursting I reckon.......what's that, Rooney and Falcao on £300,000 a week......hhmmmmm.
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Wembley looks as empty as it used to be in the 80s for friendlies. And home internationals against Wales and N Ireland.
Bubble well and truly bursting I reckon.......what's that, Rooney and Falcao on £300,000 a week......hhmmmmm.
That's what get's me as well. I can just about understand players like Messi and Ronaldo earning the money they do but i watch Rooney and wonder how he manages to get himself a pay rise every two years.
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Wembley looks as empty as it used to be in the 80s for friendlies. And home internationals against Wales and N Ireland.
Bubble well and truly bursting I reckon.......what's that, Rooney and Falcao on £300,000 a week......hhmmmmm.
That's what get's me as well. I can just about understand players like Messi and Ronaldo earning the money they do but i watch Rooney and wonder how he manages to get himself a pay rise every two years.
Think Man Utd just panicked over how it would look if he went to Man City or Chelsea. Good work by his agent and Mourinho I reckon.
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I enjoyed watching his 20 mins or so, he looked lively and got involved. Might even have done better if Sturrige and Welbeck were a little more aware of what's around them. Awful game though overall. Rooney just doesn't do enough.
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So what about the game next week would you people start Delph? Think I would give him the first half and see how it goes.
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It's a qualifier isn't it? Don't think you really start players with a view to subbing them at half time in a qualifier, think you need international clearance from the British press to do something like that.
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I enjoyed watching his 20 mins or so, he looked lively and got involved. Might even have done better if Sturrige and Welbeck were a little more aware of what's around them. Awful game though overall. Rooney just doesn't do enough.
In the upside down bizarro world that is the upper echelons of English football that is the reason why they keeping giving Rooney more money, and have rewarded him with captaincy of his club and country.
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I enjoyed watching his 20 mins or so, he looked lively and got involved. Might even have done better if Sturrige and Welbeck were a little more aware of what's around them. Awful game though overall. Rooney just doesn't do enough.
In the upside down bizarro world that is the upper echelons of English football that is the reason why they keeping giving Rooney more money and rewarded with captaining his club and country.
With both his club and country struggling, they've both shit it and thrown all their eggs in with him, without anybody stopping to think he might actually be part of the problem.
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Wembley looks as empty as it used to be in the 80s for friendlies. And home internationals against Wales and N Ireland.
40,000 for an England game, 28,000 at the Villa.
Bubble well and truly bursting I reckon.......what's that, Rooney and Falcao on £300,000 a week......hhmmmmm.
I am going to take my lad to the Slovenia game in November. Family tickets still available - £20 adults , £10 kids.
http://ticketing.thefa.com/?utm_source=AMS&utm_medium=Clicktracker%2004&utm_campaign=CLICKTRACKER%20CAMPAIGN:%20Autumn%20Qualifiers%202014
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Just found out Rooney has about 5years to go on that contract. The way things are going for ManU it's not inconceivable they wont be able to afford to pay him a few years down the line. They really could be heading for trouble.
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I enjoyed watching his 20 mins or so, he looked lively and got involved. Might even have done better if Sturrige and Welbeck were a little more aware of what's around them. Awful game though overall. Rooney just doesn't do enough.
In the upside down bizarro world that is the upper echelons of English football that is the reason why they keeping giving Rooney more money and rewarded with captaining his club and country.
With both his club and country struggling, they've both shit it and thrown all their eggs in with him, without anybody stopping to think he might actually be part of the problem.
I happen to believe that English football is completely devoid of genuine world class talent, both players and coaches. They are trying so very hard to squeeze what the can out of what they have without truly attacking the issues that are affecting the national game. Having a number of dinosaurs running it doesn't help at all, and it continues right through the system. You look at some of the more modern, progressive coaches and they are not English. If English football wants to correct itself start with appointing a manager that might look to play a different way and insist that football across all levels starts to follow the structural changes adopted in Germany or Spain. Get in a manager like Martinez or Rodgers and give them the genuine freedom to make decisions.
I just find English football so predictable. Maybe I'm being a bit unfair but when you watch the WC and really get a taste if what international football can be like then you see how far we have to go as a nation. England truly is Aston Villa. Loads of potential and excitement if managed correctly, and an audience that will quickly get behind it. It just hasn't been for a while. In England's case in a long while.
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I enjoyed watching his 20 mins or so, he looked lively and got involved. Might even have done better if Sturrige and Welbeck were a little more aware of what's around them. Awful game though overall. Rooney just doesn't do enough.
In the upside down bizarro world that is the upper echelons of English football that is the reason why they keeping giving Rooney more money and rewarded with captaining his club and country.
With both his club and country struggling, they've both shit it and thrown all their eggs in with him, without anybody stopping to think he might actually be part of the problem.
The long and short of it is that Rooney only seems interested in playing in the "number 10" role and both England and Manchester Utd have better players than him in that position. England picked up markedly when he went off last night.
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I enjoyed watching his 20 mins or so, he looked lively and got involved. Might even have done better if Sturrige and Welbeck were a little more aware of what's around them. Awful game though overall. Rooney just doesn't do enough.
In the upside down bizarro world that is the upper echelons of English football that is the reason why they keeping giving Rooney more money and rewarded with captaining his club and country.
With both his club and country struggling, they've both shit it and thrown all their eggs in with him, without anybody stopping to think he might actually be part of the problem.
I happen to believe that English football is completely devoid of genuine world class talent, both players and coaches. They are trying so very hard to squeeze what the can out of what they have without truly attacking the issues that are affecting the national game. Having a number of dinosaurs running it doesn't help at all, and it continues right through the system. You look at some of the more modern, progressive coaches and they are not English. If English football wants to correct itself start with appointing a manager that might look to play a different way and insist that football across all levels starts to follow the structural changes adopted in Germany or Spain. Get in a manager like Martinez or Rodgers and give them the genuine freedom to make decisions.
I just find English football so predictable. Maybe I'm being a bit unfair but when you watch the WC and really get a taste if what international football can be like then you see how far we have to go as a nation. England truly is Aston Villa. Loads of potential and excitement if managed correctly, and an audience that will quickly get behind it. It just hasn't been for a while. In England's case in a long while.
I doubt many managers currently employed in the Premier League would want the England job to be honest. Rodgers would be probably be the the stand out candidate, but the only interested parties would probably be the likes of Bruce and Allardyce.
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Sadly, I don't disagree Tom. Why would someone like Martinez want it if they cannot affect change throughout the system. It's a prestigious position devalued by those who are tasked govern and develop it.
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Just found out Rooney has about 5years to go on that contract. The way things are going for ManU it's not inconceivable they wont be able to afford to pay him a few years down the line. They really could be heading for trouble.
Don't worry about Rooney, he's got a clause in his contract should they be relegated.
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Sadly, I don't disagree Tom. Why would someone like Martinez want it if they cannot affect change throughout the system. It's a prestigious position devalued by those who are tasked govern and develop it.
Agree and when you throw in the fact that they would be hounded by the press, then it's not a particularly attractive proposition.
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I read somewhere that when Honda built their new factory in Swindon and were recruiting workers for the production line, one criterion was that anyone with any previous experience in a British car factory was not to be considered.
Maybe there needs to be something that radical in place for the England team. The notion that 'this is England and we expect things to be done in a certain way' is preventing a proper clear-out of our psychological baggage.
I don't mind if England lose every game, provided they're trying to play and trying to build for the future. Forget 1966, forget the Three Lions and Nobby Stiles and all that shit. Start again.
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Ctrl+Alt and Delete........time for a England reboot.
UTV
The Doc
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Very pro Delph article with some interesting stats from today,s Metro ...................Godzvilla!
Why Aston Villa’s Fabian Delph could become an England regular
Andrew Raeburn Thursday 4 Sep 2014 1:47 pm
Aston Villa have supplied more England internationals than any other club – and Fabian Delph took the total to 73 when he came on against Norway on Wednesday night.
In a neat twist, he took to the Wembley turf alongside James Milner, who was the last Villa player to win a debut cap for the Three Lions back in 2009.
But while the introduction of Milner was derided, unfairly, by his vocal band of critics, the younger Yorkshireman enhanced his growing reputation with a very tidy display indeed.
It may have only been a 25-minute cameo, but his efficient use of the ball, eagerness to show for it and the general increase in the team’s tempo that coincided with his arrival won him praise.
Henry Winter of the Daily Telegraph, who deserves to be listened to whenever he speaks, led the chorus of approval.
Henry Winter ✔ @henrywinter
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Fabian Delph a definite positive for #eng v #nor. On for only 21 mins but injected some much-needed impetus into midfield. Good debut. #avfc
2:42 AM - 4 Sep 2014
The number crunchers also backed up this view.
Captain Wayne Rooney, in 70 minutes, touched the ball 29 times and completed 15 of 20 passes. Delph, in a third of the time, had 23 touches, easily the most involved of the six substitutes, and completed 18 of 19 passes. His stats, pro rata, more than measured up to Jack Wilshere and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain.
But of course spreadsheets don’t tell you everything. They can’t show whether a player looks at home on the international stage, or fits in happily with the ‘big names’.
Yes, it was ‘only’ Norway. Yes, it was only 25 minutes. But after another fairly anodyne display by some experienced internationals, the fact Delph’s brief contribution stood out shows you he has what it takes.
But even if he’d given the ball away numerous times and joined the likes of Jake Livermore, Matt Jarvis and former Villa players Lee Hendrie and Brian Little in the ‘one cap as a brief sub‘ category, just making his England senior debut will have felt like a success.
In 2010, towards the end of his first season at Villa, he suffered a cruciate knee ligament injury that kept him out for 10 months, while an ankle injury curtailed a loan back at his first club Leeds. In his first three years in B6, he started just 18 Premier League matches.
Delph finally became a regular under Paul Lambert, but after an inconsistent 2012-13, he finally hit his straps last season, after being told to have more self-belief.
His superb form, which included a cheeky backheeled winner against Chelsea in March, made him the clear winner of the club’s player of the year award – and has now translated into an England call.
About time, too. Delph’s call-up was, to some outsiders, an indictment of the lack of midfield options after the retirements of Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard, and injuries to Michael Carrick and Ross Barkley.
But those who watch him week in, week out, will know Delph has the quality to succeed at the highest level.
Most importantly he has the character to realise he hasn’t cracked it just yet – and the hard work to stay in exalted company starts now.
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Phil Mcnulty gave him 5/10, the same as Milner and said he didn't make an impact. I can only assume he didn't watch the game.
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Phil Mcnulty gave him 5/10, the same as Milner and said he didn't make an impact. I can only assume he didn't watch the game.
just take the MLY away and there he is.
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It really is a sad indictment that the flat track bully that is Rooney could soon be England's leading goal scorer. His scoring record against the big countries, in footballing terms, is abysmal. He has scored only 3 goals in finals of tournaments and the majority of his goals against what you could call the second tier of world football or in friendlies. He is what they called a busted flush.
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It really is a sad indictment that the flat track bully that is Rooney could soon be England's leading goal scorer.
Does it really matter? Nine of Sir Booby Charlton's goals came across three 8-0 wins. Fifty years later, nobody thinks any less of him because he happened to score quite a lot of his goals against rubbish opposition.
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Has anyone come in for Delph yet? Has he been tapped up yet? The one thing I hate about our lads getting picked for England. Great to see him there though.
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It really is a sad indictment that the flat track bully that is Rooney could soon be England's leading goal scorer.
Does it really matter? Nine of Sir Booby Charlton's goals came across three 8-0 wins. Fifty years later, nobody thinks any less of him because he happened to score quite a lot of his goals against rubbish opposition.
I think it does, 12 of Rooneys goals have been scored in friendlies. Chalton also turned up at major tournaments.
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Stats across different generations are pretty misleading anyway. Plus, who cares?
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Dunno but I would prefer a world cup winning legend of the game being our leading scorer than a thuggish, extremely money grabbing granny prostitute shagging bloke that swears incessantly at referees and does not even justify his place in the side.
His goal count is significantly devalued by the fact that IMO he should not have been picked in many of the games he has been because he has been picked solely on the ideal that he is the great Wayne Rooney, when in truth for about 3 seasons he has been completely and utterly shit.
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Delph looked pretty comfortable last night and actually has pace in what is looking a very static paced central midfield.
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Delph did lots more than Wilkshire, who is fast becoming the new Rooney in terms of playing off his name. McNulty, as ever, will not acknowledge anything outside of the top 4 is worth praise. Find for their chief sports reporter he spends most of his time loving the top 4 as much as he physically can.
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The depressing thing for me about last night was that Sterling looked great when he moved infield,
the team looked better after the substitutions, yet Wilshire and Rooney will both start the next game.
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His goal count is significantly devalued by the fact that IMO he should not have been picked in many of the games he has been because he has been picked solely on the ideal that he is the great Wayne Rooney, when in truth for about 3 seasons he has been completely and utterly shit.
Surely if he was picked and scored goals in those games, then he's justified the decision to pick him?
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Fabian Delph's international debut means Aston Villa have produced more England internationals than any other club: 72nd to be capped.
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Fabian Delph's international debut means Aston Villa have produced more England internationals than any other club: 72nd to be capped.
Although, we had done so even before Delph had been picked. And will carry on doing so until Spurs make up about ten or so on us I believe. Presumably Eric Dier will be the next one that starts eating back into our lead.
Plus I think it's 73. The 72 doesn't include Scott Carson who we had on loan when he did his England stuff.
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Fabian Delph's international debut means Aston Villa have produced more England internationals than any other club: 72nd to be capped.
I'm pretty sure that that's one record we have anyway, irrespective of last night. Last time I saw a stat, I think we were about a whole team's-worth ahead of our closest contenders.
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The depressing thing for me about last night was that Sterling looked great when he moved infield,
the team looked better after the substitutions, yet Wilshire and Rooney will both start the next game.
Both Wilshere and Rooney's careers look in serious decline. Both could be out of their clubs sides before long if they dont buck up their ideas. Wilshere played well in a friendly once for England, hasnt done anything of note since.
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Sadly true, which means Delph for England!
Aaaaah, Go on. Go on. Gowan, Gowan, Gowan, Gowan, Gowan, Gowan, Gowan!
Either Roy comes to his senses or I underwrite a fifteenth series of Father Ted.
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Fabian Delph's international debut means Aston Villa have produced more England internationals than any other club: 72nd to be capped.
Although, we had done so even before Delph had been picked. And will carry on doing so until Spurs make up about ten or so on us I believe. Presumably Eric Dier will be the next one that starts eating back into our lead.
Plus I think it's 73. The 72 doesn't include Scott Carson who we had on loan when he did his England stuff.
Liverpool are only four behind us I believe. Lallana will peg us back another as well.
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Wembley looks as empty as it used to be in the 80s for friendlies. And home internationals against Wales and N Ireland.
40,000 for an England game, 28,000 at the Villa.
Bubble well and truly bursting I reckon.......what's that, Rooney and Falcao on £300,000 a week......hhmmmmm.
I am going to take my lad to the Slovenia game in November. Family tickets still available - £20 adults , £10 kids.
http://ticketing.thefa.com/?utm_source=AMS&utm_medium=Clicktracker%2004&utm_campaign=CLICKTRACKER%20CAMPAIGN:%20Autumn%20Qualifiers%202014
Ta for that I'll take my 5 year-old.
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If we are looking for radial thinking then maybe its time to look at the set-up of our game. Maybe there is something in allowing Premier League team reserves play in the pyramid system as they do in Spain and I believe Germany. This would allow players to get the experience of first team football outside of the win at all costs mentality of first teams in the Prem league and away from the baying unforgiving fans. But, despite it being proven to be successful everywhere there is also a tendency for us to think that as we started all this off we'll never change our set-up to ape that of Europe (some of it). Its the last bastion of Englishness and anti-European (or in general johnny foreigner) that we have and no-one is prepared to change.
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If we are looking for radial thinking then maybe its time to look at the set-up of our game. Maybe there is something in allowing Premier League team reserves play in the pyramid system as they do in Spain and I believe Germany. This would allow players to get the experience of first team football outside of the win at all costs mentality of first teams in the Prem league and away from the baying unforgiving fans. But, despite it being proven to be successful everywhere there is also a tendency for us to think that as we started all this off we'll never change our set-up to ape that of Europe (some of it). Its the last bastion of Englishness and anti-European (or in general johnny foreigner) that we have and no-one is prepared to change.
Really wouldn't want to see that Peter. Maybe expanding the JPT and letting Premier League Reserve teams into that might be an idea.
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And what happens to the reserve/U21 teams of clubs promoted and relegated? Going to keep kicking teams out of the pyramid and replacing them with a different club?
And what level of the pyramid do you stick them and at the expense of what other clubs? You can't just expand one division by 20 teams. How far up the pyramid do they go?
If you can work out the logistics of 20 team suddenly joining the pyramid, no use dumping them low down as most will be way better than the non league sides they'd be facing.
Plus it's U21 now, I don't fancy a Villa side made of 17-20 year olds going up against a bunch of 25 year old lower league/non league players week in week out.
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And what happens to the reserve/U21 teams of clubs promoted and relegated? Going to keep kicking teams out of the pyramid and replacing them with a different club?
Basically, yes. That's no difference to promotion and relegation. Where do they go? Well they'll replace the 3 clubs that will have left the reserve/U-21 leagues to come up.
And what level of the pyramid do you stick them and at the expense of what other clubs? You can't just expand one division by 20 teams.
Well this is where you have to start looking at the pyramid system which is largely unsustainable in its present format. Most of the Conference is professional now yet a level or two below and the standard is no better than before and yet the costs are higher. Its a question of what we want. if its a successful England team we have to look at younger players being given a berth lower down the leagues. We want our players to go out on loan as it is having a team there that can afford to be there costs wise is one issue, allowing your players develop and having a season of competitive football where they are not under nthe pressure of success or failure can only help their clubs first team, and ultimately England.
How far up the pyramid do they go?
No higher then Championship
If you can work out the logistics of 20 team suddenly joining the pyramid, no use dumping them low down as most will be way better than the non league sides they'd be facing.
Plus it's U21 now, I don't fancy a Villa side made of 17-20 year olds going up against a bunch of 25 year old lower league/non league players week in week out.
Division Four, League Two can become a North and South divide once mofre - not ideal but an aoption and a way of fighting 20 new teams into the pyramid.
As for the final point the younger players - 17 or so, will only play of they're at the standard deemed good enough. They'd only be playing reserve football if good enough as it is anyway. Those that are close enough to the first-team squad play against 25 year-old lower league players as it is. What better than for Donacien, Johnson, Bennett, Grealish (of last season) to play still for Aston Villa at Notts County, Tranmere, Chesterfield etc and develop within their own environment The current loan system allows them to 'grow-up' away from Villa PArk but they're still thrown into the succeed or fail culture as dictated by the clubs and their fans, who they go out on loan to.
It's an option that should be considered and not merely thrown away because its simply just been the way we've always done it. See also: break, Winter.
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I think a winter break needs to happen and shouldn't even be a debate, first couple of weeks of January after the 4 games in 10-12 days that generally occurs around christmas and new year.
I'm less sure about the reserves situation, I think I'd rather see the focus being placed on improving coaching standards to start with and then see where we end up, restructuring the league in a way that benefits the bigger clubs at the expense of the small sides may help a little for England but it would do a lot of harm as well.
The other issue is the sky backed obsession with spending more money than ever on exciting big name signings rather than trying to bring through your own talent. Fans (in general) need to start asking why the clubs are spending a fortune bringing players from abroad when they could use that money to fund coaching and facilities. The whole approach to football in England needs to change.
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Did anyone else think Sterling and Sturridge are determined to only pass to each other?
Not so much Sterling, I think he's a smarter player than that, but I thought it was obvious that Sturridge was only ever interested in passing if it was to Sterling. Sturridge always frustrates me because he frequently makes the wrong choice in possession - has an extra touch, picks the wrong pass, often he just shoots when someone else is better placed. I'm not sure he's got any footballing brain at all. I think tonight he only passed when he heard Sterling chirrup for the ball. (I don't think Sterling shouts for the ball, I think it's too weedy to qualify as a shout, it's more a sort of yelp, like a sparrow might make if you stood on his toe).
Sturridge had a reputation for being greedy and selfish before joining Liverpool, where he seemed to improve that aspect of his game. On Wednesday he reverted to type and there were at least four occasions where he tried to go alone when colleagues, including Sterling a couple of times, were better placed and in space. Compare this to the Germany team where they always seem to look first to play in a better placed player if possible. Sturridge wouldn't get near that team. For me it's another symptom of the reasons we consistently fail at International level - a lack of mental strength and intelligence, which covers aspects such as self-belief, confidence, discipline, tactical nous, decision-making, and composure under pressure. Hardly any British players have all or even most of those qualities, and it's all too obvious when we get to major tournaments.
Our coaches are generally poor too and it's laughable that some, including many journalists, see the main criteria for being England manager as "being English" rather than "being any good". Then when they get their way theygnash their teeth when we inevitably fail to even qualify for tournaments like under McLaren. At least Hodgson has some international/foreign experience, some of it fairly successful, but he doesn't really have much to work with. He perhaps does need to show some balls in either dropping Rooney or giving him a good kick up the arse. As for Milner getting jeered, that's shows he ignorance of the crowd - he's way more effective than the likes of Wilshere and Henderson.
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Fabian Delph's international debut means Aston Villa have produced more England internationals than any other club: 72nd to be capped.
Although, we had done so even before Delph had been picked. And will carry on doing so until Spurs make up about ten or so on us I believe. Presumably Eric Dier will be the next one that starts eating back into our lead.
Plus I think it's 73. The 72 doesn't include Scott Carson who we had on loan when he did his England stuff.
Liverpool are only four behind us I believe. Lallana will peg us back another as well.
We must have held this record for quite some time I'd have thought
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Fabian Delph's international debut means Aston Villa have produced more England internationals than any other club: 72nd to be capped.
Although, we had done so even before Delph had been picked. And will carry on doing so until Spurs make up about ten or so on us I believe. Presumably Eric Dier will be the next one that starts eating back into our lead.
Plus I think it's 73. The 72 doesn't include Scott Carson who we had on loan when he did his England stuff.
Liverpool are only four behind us I believe. Lallana will peg us back another as well.
We must have held this record for quite some time I'd have thought
Probably not far off "forever", I'd think. There weren't that many internationals played prior to us ruling the football world, the odd kickabout with the sweaties was all that went on, wasn't it?
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Fabian Delph's international debut means Aston Villa have produced more England internationals than any other club: 72nd to be capped.
Although, we had done so even before Delph had been picked. And will carry on doing so until Spurs make up about ten or so on us I believe. Presumably Eric Dier will be the next one that starts eating back into our lead.
Plus I think it's 73. The 72 doesn't include Scott Carson who we had on loan when he did his England stuff.
Liverpool are only four behind us I believe. Lallana will peg us back another as well.
Shame, I was clearly looking at something out of date.
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Compare this to the Germany team where they always seem to look first to play in a better placed player if possible. Sturridge wouldn't get near that team.
I generally agree with your criticisms of Sturridge, but I think you've picked a bad example. I think he'd be picked for Germany, as the one thing they are lacking is a selfish striker that all of their great attacking midfielders can create chances for.
Now Klose has retired their first choice is still Mario Gomez who has the knees of a pensioner.
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Sturridge has hurt his thigh and is not playing on Monday.
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He'll be fit on sat.
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Compare this to the Germany team where they always seem to look first to play in a better placed player if possible. Sturridge wouldn't get near that team.
I generally agree with your criticisms of Sturridge, but I think you've picked a bad example. I think he'd be picked for Germany, as the one thing they are lacking is a selfish striker that all of their great attacking midfielders can create chances for.
Now Klose has retired their first choice is still Mario Gomez who has the knees of a pensioner.
If they have any sense it'll be muller before long, he's got everything to be a perfect 9.
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Compare this to the Germany team where they always seem to look first to play in a better placed player if possible. Sturridge wouldn't get near that team.
I generally agree with your criticisms of Sturridge, but I think you've picked a bad example. I think he'd be picked for Germany, as the one thing they are lacking is a selfish striker that all of their great attacking midfielders can create chances for.
Now Klose has retired their first choice is still Mario Gomez who has the knees of a pensioner.
If they have any sense it'll be muller before long, he's got everything to be a perfect 9.
Except he can not play with his back to goal
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Compare this to the Germany team where they always seem to look first to play in a better placed player if possible. Sturridge wouldn't get near that team.
I generally agree with your criticisms of Sturridge, but I think you've picked a bad example. I think he'd be picked for Germany, as the one thing they are lacking is a selfish striker that all of their great attacking midfielders can create chances for.
Now Klose has retired their first choice is still Mario Gomez who has the knees of a pensioner.
There's nothing wrong with being selfish if the circumstances dictate it's the best option. My problem with Sturridge is that he too often does it when it's clearly not the best option from the team point of view, and his decision making is therefore suspect. There are very small margins between success and failure in top level football and the mental strength I alluded to can and does make all the difference. The Germans are the best example of a bunch of players that more often than not demonstrate that mental discipline required to succeed. At least a couple of their goals against Brazil involved passes from players in decent scoring positions who had the intelligence and composure to pass to colleagues in even better positions. I have little doubt Sturridge would have gone for goal in those situations and a goal would have been less likely. I think his poor decision making (not to mention an often dreadful first touch) would get him overlooked by the German team.
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Germany won the world cup by being willing to make another pass when they had a chance to go alone so often. Sturridge would ruin much of their forward play.
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Like I said, I don't think you're wrong in your overall assessment of Sturridge and his faults.
But I still think Germany would pick him because in spite of those faults, he's a better striker than their fairly mediocre alternatives in that position.
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I am surprised they don't just stick Schurle down the middle, he looks capable.
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I don't think Germany would pick him because, by and large, they don't need that position. They may well have him in the squad, but he's not getting into the starting line-up ahead of Schuerrle, Goetze, Mueller, any of them.
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I don't think Germany would pick him because, by and large, they don't need that position. They may well have him in the squad, but he's not getting into the starting line-up ahead of Schuerrle, Goetze, Mueller, any of them.
Germany don't play any of them in the position that he would be playing though.
I'm sure that if they'd had the choice of starting the current Sturridge or the current Gomez the other night, I think Gomez could have booked a nice Florentine restaurant for the evening.
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That was an experiment with a target man, which they do from time to time. In the proper games, they tend to ditch the lump and play the 4-6-0 thing.
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I despise teams who don't play with a proper striker.
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That was an experiment with a target man, which they do from time to time. In the proper games, they tend to ditch the lump and play the 4-6-0 thing.
They didn't in the World Cup final. Or the semi-final. Or the quarter-final.
Anyway, the original point was that Sturridge "wouldn't get near" the German team. If we're now just disputing whether he would be first-choice, or just first-choice striker when they're not playing the silly false-nine thing. It still renders the initial point a bit moot.
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They 'tend' to. In tournaments, you often see teams doing uncharacteristic things because they get on a run, or certain players get into a run of form, and all sorts of things which make logical sense in the frenzy of the month. In general, though, they go for the false nine. I agree that Sturridge would get in ahead of their other out-and-out forwards, though they prefer target men in that role usually.
On which, I don't see what's so silly, or so worth despising, or particularly new. Brazil in 1970 played with a false-nine type system, only they called the position the 'ponta da lança'. None of Tostao, Pele, Rivellino or Jairzinho were exactly out-and-out strikers, despite the number of goals between them.
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I stayed in Ponta de Lança once. When we arrived the apartment was still full of hangover Glaswegians who'd forgotten to go to the airport
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That was an experiment with a target man, which they do from time to time. In the proper games, they tend to ditch the lump and play the 4-6-0 thing.
They didn't in the World Cup final. Or the semi-final. Or the quarter-final.
Anyway, the original point was that Sturridge "wouldn't get near" the German team. If we're now just disputing whether he would be first-choice, or just first-choice striker when they're not playing the silly false-nine thing. It still renders the initial point a bit moot.
Fair enough Dave but I still disagree, I think the mental discipline thing is key to the German way of doing things and I still think they would at least be reluctant to undermine that by including someone who can be as selfish/maverick/unpredictable as Sturridge. They like players who can stick to a game plan. I think they have the players and mentality to successfully adapt their system to play without a traditional nine, and suspect they would prefer to do that. I'd say Balotelli falls into a similar category, great striker on his day but too unpredictable for many Italians, let alone Germans.
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That was an experiment with a target man, which they do from time to time. In the proper games, they tend to ditch the lump and play the 4-6-0 thing.
They didn't in the World Cup final. Or the semi-final. Or the quarter-final.
Anyway, the original point was that Sturridge "wouldn't get near" the German team. If we're now just disputing whether he would be first-choice, or just first-choice striker when they're not playing the silly false-nine thing. It still renders the initial point a bit moot.
Fair enough Dave but I still disagree, I think the mental discipline thing is key to the German way of doing things and I still think they would at least be reluctant to undermine that by including someone who can be as selfish/maverick/unpredictable as Sturridge.
Fair enough. Obviously it's not something we'll ever see a definite answer to!
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Henderson out, Delph to start?
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Henderson out, Delph to start?
It's actually an ideal time to play Milner in the middle but i reckon he'll just bung Phil Jones in there, what with him being a Man Utd player.
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Henderson out, Delph to start?
It's actually an ideal time to play Milner in the middle but i reckon he'll just bung Phil Jones in there, what with him being a Man Utd player.
You mean Man U, that team struggling in the lower reaches of the Prem?
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Henderson out, Delph to start?
I thought you were talking about dropping Henderson but I have just heard is is out injured. Which I am guessing is what you saying.
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Henderson out, Delph to start?
I thought you were talking about dropping Henderson but I have just heard is is out injured. Which I am guessing is what you saying.
There's no flies on Columbo here.
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Henderson out, Delph to start?
I thought you were talking about dropping Henderson but I have just heard is is out injured. Which I am guessing is what you saying.
There's no flies on Columbo here.
Behave yourself. Check the times of the posts. I cracked it in under an hour. Columbo would have taken twice as long!
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Sturrige and Henderson out injured. What's the betting they play on Saturday?
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Sturrige and Henderson out injured. What's the betting they play on Saturday?
Don't think Sturridge will, he's out apparently for 2 or 3 weeks. Oh dear...
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Yeah Sturridge is a pulled hamstring, playing 8 days after that would be a huge risk even if he feels ok. Not sure what the specifics of the Henderson one is, just that it's an ankle injury, if he's turned it then I guess he'll be out but if it's just bruising from contact he'll be fine.
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Senderos clattering Sterling and we will have a chance
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Confirmed on Talksport about Delph....well that's their understanding.
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Yeah Sturridge is a pulled hamstring, playing 8 days after that would be a huge risk even if he feels ok. Not sure what the specifics of the Henderson one is, just that it's an ankle injury, if he's turned it then I guess he'll be out but if it's just bruising from contact he'll be fine.
I'd herd, studge had a twisted sock, for his injury.
Club before country every time,
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Confirmed on Talksport about Delph....well that's their understanding.
http://talksport.com/football/england-line-v-switzerland-arsenal-and-liverpool-stars-miss-out-140908112631
.......................Godzvilla!
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Good, most on here would rate Milner above Delph in central midfield but glad to see Woy's seen sense.
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HITC Sport (http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/09/08/confirmed-england-line-up-v-switzerland/)
England: Hart; Baines, Cahill, Stones, Jones; Delph, Henderson, Wilshere; Sterling, Rooney, Welbeck
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I am disappointed to see him start. I don't want injuries and more importantly I don't want him anywhere near being tarred with Hodgsons failed reign.
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I see that Henderson's fit to play, so who's place has a Fab taken?
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Oxlade-Chamberlain.
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Good, most on here would rate Milner above Delph in central midfield but glad to see Woy's seen sense.
Milner made a bad 'football' choice when he left Villa and I think this proves it. He was never going to get a regular game in the middle at City as he hadn't properly established himself there as he'd only played a season there at Villa. I doubt he'll ever get selected in the middle for England.
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Oxlade-Chamberlain.
Fab's good enough to replace both of them, Oxlade and Chamberlain :)
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Well done Fab, that start has been earned.
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Anyone considering turning on SkySports 5 to get their view on Fab's selection be warned, John Terry's in the studio.
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Anyone considering turning on SkySports 5 to get their view on Fab's selection be warned, John Terry's in the studio.
He was very positive
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What did he say?
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Monster headphones, Fabian!
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It's a rhombus, not a diamond.
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Just turned over to ITV and for the last 5 mins have heard Childes babbling on about Jack,Jack,Jack and Jack.
Is Jack the new Steeeeeevie ?
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What did he say?
That when Chelsea play Villa they press the ball win the intention of getting us to give it up, but with Delph, though he may give the ball away occasionally, he will be very good at keeping possession and making use of it.
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Bloody hell that is one of the worst starting elevens since the days of Geoff Thomas, having said that they are definitely an upgrade on the substitutes.
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I'm not a jingoistic person, but I'm inordinately chuffed for Delph getting picked from the wreckage of our last three seasons.
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What did he say?
"Is Delphs girlfriend fit? Asking for a friend."
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I'm not a jingoistic person, but I'm inordinately chuffed for Delph getting picked from the wreckage of our last three seasons.
Fab's been picked, he's started the game, now please sub him off Roy
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I really wish we had him signed to a long term deal.
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Nice win of the ball and run, picked out Sterling but might have been too vigorous with the pass.
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A good start for Fab but then he pulls off one of his classic tackles.
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A yellow card awaits.
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Well that wasn't patronising. Clive and Andy. Fucking wankers.
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Total.
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Well that wasn't patronising. Clive and Andy. Fucking wankers.
Clive realised he'd started talking bollocks and rapidly back tracked
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Delph booked. Very stupid.
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That'll be Fab booked
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Delph now on a yellow. That was my worry.
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Is this the match thread?
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Delph that's daft, you can't be sliding in like that.
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A yellow card awaits.
Told you! Silly boy.
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Is this the match thread?
It's the Fab Thread, I really don't care how the rest of the England team play
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300k a week and he can't even trap a ball.
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Stay on your feet Fabian.
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Wiltshire is gash.
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300k a week and he can't even trap a ball.
He can't pass the ball ten yards either
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Wiltshire is gash.
Not gash but nowhere near as good as he or the press think he is, and he's a whiny little prick as well.
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Delph will be off if not careful. Luckily the man leaped the challenge.
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Stay on your feet Fabian, fucking hell.
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His starting debut is turning into a nightmare.
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I'd be tempted to take him off. He looks like a red card waiting to happen. Shame but I think he's too pumped up for this.
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He's calmed down recently playing for us as he always used to do at least one scissor challenge a game not so long back.
Not very bright to be doing it on a yellow really.
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He's done quite well on the ball in their half. But they're gonna have to fetch him off. He's a second yellow waiting to happen. His booking was an absolutely ridiculous challenge to make.
Wilshere isn't a holding midfielder and baines looks very short of confidence
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Worst thing is, I think he's been the best of the midfielders with the ball, but he's just being too aggressive without the ball. He's not being helped by Rooney though, a decent captain would be talking to him.
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He's calmed down recently playing for us as he always used to do at least one scissor challenge a game not so long back.
Not very bright to be doing it on a yellow really.
Yeah agreed, he's played well on the ball but he's a red card waiting to happen at the moment.
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I'd be tempted to take him off. He looks like a red card waiting to happen. Shame but I think he's too pumped up for this.
I would too. He's doing well in possession, but it's hands over eyes stuff every time he goes into a challenge.
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Wiltshire is so average it's untrue.
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Wiltshire is gash.
Not gash but nowhere near as good as he or the press think he is, and he's a whiny little prick as well.
He has short legs and a really fat arse as well, either that or stupid sized shorts.
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The fact that it's the referee trying to give him advice says something.
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Wilshere almost played Delph into another yellow but luckily Fabian had the sense to pull out.
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Unbelievable. Truly awful just then.
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Wilshere has played 3-4 shocking passes that are tempting the player to throw a leg out and get themselves booked trying to make something from it.
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The fact that it's the referee trying to give him advice says something.
Aye, it comes to something when it's the ref trying to calm Fab down and keep him on the pitch. Why the fuck aren't the England players doing it?
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The fact that it's the referee trying to give him advice says something.
Aye, it comes to something when it's the ref trying to calm Fab down and keep him on the pitch. Why the fuck aren't the England players doing it?
Indeed.
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Fucking hell Phil Jones. There's some real liability defending out there
Sterling hasn't been that great has he? Still a threat though
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Green Bay Packers cheesehead in the crowd
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Wiltshire is so average it's untrue.
Nonsense. It is scintillating compared to Hampshire. Where Jack Wilshere's grandparents may have visited.
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Delph did well there.
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Wilshere is the most overhyped player England have had for an extremely long time.
Does he ever put in a really impressive performance? For Arsenal even?
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Free header, good save.
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Delph did well there.
Going forward Fab has been the best of the midfielders
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Wilshere is the most overhyped player England have had for an extremely long time.
Does he ever put in a really impressive performance? For Arsenal even?
I've been saying this for a couple of years, he looks tidy and can drift past people well but his passing is average at best and he has very little impact on the games.
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I'm relieved Fab made it to half time.
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Wilshere is the most overhyped player England have had for an extremely long time.
Does he ever put in a really impressive performance? For Arsenal even?
Once in 2011 I think.
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Delph did well there.
Going forward Fab has been the best of the midfielders
He has got into the game in the last 10-15mins pretty well. He gets too far ahead of the ball at times tho, with Villa too, and not in a great position for a pass.
Agreed on Wilshere, awful. Jones is a car crash of a defender too.
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Wilshere is the most overhyped player England have had for an extremely long time.
Does he ever put in a really impressive performance? For Arsenal even?
I've been saying this for a couple of years, he looks tidy and can drift past people well but his passing is average at best and he has very little impact on the games.
He is however the best jumping up and down thrower of a strop since John Terry
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Wilshere is the most overhyped player England have had for an extremely long time.
Does he ever put in a really impressive performance? For Arsenal even?
I've been saying this for a couple of years, he looks tidy and can drift past people well but his passing is average at best and he has very little impact on the games.
He is however the best jumping up and down thrower of a strop since John Terry
A lot of Arsenal fans seem to still rate him. I still think there is a top player in there. He just seems to have left him behind in the friendly against Brazil a few years back. He's gone backwards since in my eyes.
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I have high hopes for Wilshere. He has every chance of being the ideal Gerrard replacement, seen him knock a couple of 40 yard passes out for throw ins.
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I suppose the one thing is we forget Wilshire is still only 22. I'm guilty of it because it seems like he has been around for yonks.
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100% success for Fab's passing, good stuff.
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On the whoscored live stats it has Delph as 100% passing accuracy, Wilshere has 80%
I also like the strengths and weaknesses thing for Wilshere - http://www.whoscored.com/Players/42686 - sums it up for me. He is still young and he can get better but he's gone backwards for 18months and looks a long way short of the player he's made out to be.
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Quite surprised Fab is still on, just don't get sent off please.
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He showed good awareness to lay the ball back to Wilshere for that shot.
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Quite surprised Fab is still on, just don't get sent off please.
Why? He has played well.
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Quite surprised Fab is still on, just don't get sent off please.
Why? He has played well.
I'm fully aware he's played well, it's more the fact he's been wreckless defensively and is on a yellow.
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I hope sterling plays like this against us
Delph has been great on the ball.
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Yep he's been very good in possession.
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We could have had three or four on another day
Switzerland have been shit tho
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Delph makes a nice drop of the shoulder and burst before passing to Rooney. Tydsley "That was well worked, it was a great pass by Rooney under pressure at the start of that move."
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listening the the pair of dickheads talking about a player bringing a can of the spray on replacing the line sums up just how fucking stupid these commentators are.
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GOAL!
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Proper Peter Withe finish there!
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Good goal but it's a stinker of a finish from Welbeck, very lucky to shin that in.
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If Delph can measure his wreckless tackles he's got a big future at international level and hopefully at Villa.
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GOAL Excellent stuff, Delph is on a winning team and right in there.
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Good goal but it's a stinker of a finish from Welbeck, very lucky to shin that in.
Disagree I think it was a very good finish to a ball that had bounced awkwardly.
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Great block from big Cahill. Delph playing really well.
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Someone seems to have told wilshere that the job of a defensive midfielder is to: a) not provide any defensive cover, b) when you get the ball drive at the opposition, vacating the midfield, before losing it and opening yourself up to the counter and c) playing aimless forty yard balls behind their defence
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Good goal but it's a stinker of a finish from Welbeck, very lucky to shin that in.
Disagree I think it was a very good finish to a ball that had bounced awkwardly.
I think he just misjudged the bounce and got lucky, doesn't matter much though.
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Milner in central midfield!!
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Great block from big Cahill. Delph playing really well.
lambert must be tearing his hair out.
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Someone seems to have told wilshere that the job of a defensive midfielder is to: a) not provide any defensive cover, b) when you get the ball drive at the opposition, vacating the midfield, before losing it and opening yourself up to the counter and c) playing aimless forty yard balls behind their defence
Well all of the above were good enough for Lampard and Gerard for over a decade as part of a midfield two that were supposed to cover all the bases, so why shouldn't it be good enough for Fag Ash Jack
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Surely Djorou goes through delph to get the ball?
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That's a penalty for me, won the ball but with a scissor tackle, lucky boy.
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Surely Djorou goes through delph to get the ball?
It was a penalty
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Last 2 minutes, come on England.
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Gary Cahill, England Captain (in a competitive match), I called that when he was 19/20.
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Sterling you greedy little shit.
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This will be an impressive win if we hold on.
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Gary Cahill, England Captain (in a competitive match), I called that when he was 19/20.
He should be full time captain.
It should also be 'Gary Cahill, captain of Aston Villa and England'
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Great counter-attacking goal.
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Delph was great throughout.
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Delph was great throughout.
Agree, very good performance, the only issue being that he let himself down with a couple of rash tackles early on and had to hang back from challenges later in the game.
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Delph was great throughout.
Agree, very good performance, the only issue being that he let himself down with a couple of rash tackles early on and had to hang back from challenges later in the game.
That's who is he though. He's never going to change.
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That's a great start, certainly got himself noticed. Hope he signs soon because he's going to be a bloody good player.
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He did very well.
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Very proud of our Fabian, now lets get that contract sorted and quick.
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Delph was great throughout.
Agree, very good performance, the only issue being that he let himself down with a couple of rash tackles early on and had to hang back from challenges later in the game.
If it was good enough for Paul Scholes.................
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That's a great start, certainly got himself noticed. Hope he signs soon because he's going to be a bloody good player.
Yes his stock has gone up tonight and contract is a big worry.
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Delph was great throughout.
I would say good rather than great. Which is not to discredit his performance at all but just to keep things a little in perspective, something which rarely happens when we are talking England, either good or bad
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Delph was great throughout.
Agree, very good performance, the only issue being that he let himself down with a couple of rash tackles early on and had to hang back from challenges later in the game.
The first of those rash tackles was because of a really poor pass to him that put him under pressure. The commentators didn't mention that though.
The second was pure Delph and I imagine had most villa fans saying the usual " for fucks sake Delph!"
Other than that I thought he was excellent.
Well done Fab!
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In the moment, which is an international qualifier, I think he was great.
Week to week, which is what we watch, he was excellent and that's what I expect and want from a talented young player. Well done, Fabian.
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Thought Delph did well considering it was his first full cap and he gave the energy and drive that has been missing from the England midfield for some time. Thought both sides weren't great, but there were some positives for England. The formation worked quite well though the personnel is not quite right (Wilshere shouldn't play in the defensive midfield role again), but I thought Gary Cahill was very good tonight.
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Very proud of our Fabian, now lets get that contract sorted and quick.
He's probably strengthened his hand tonight.
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After his usual booking I thought he was excellent, driving forward and also getting important foot ins. Good work Fab. Sign him up.
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The formation allowed Rooney to have a much bigger influence than he has in a long time. Sterling learns to pass a bit more in situations where he has the opportunity rather than being selfish and we could have got a hatful.
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He tried a bit too hard at first but he was fine once he settled down.
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Delph was great throughout.
Agree, very good performance, the only issue being that he let himself down with a couple of rash tackles early on and had to hang back from challenges later in the game.
In a way that is even more to his credit, takes a lot of discipline to play in a game like that on a yellow card for 75 minutes.
So much more enjoyable to watch England without the same old faces.
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It is also refreshing to see someone in midfield who can go past people. Lampard and Gerrard were so static towards the end of their careers.
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Take a bow son, you did yourself and Aston Villa proud tonight
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He sounded great on the wireless!
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He did very well. Now Villa make it a priority to sign him to a new deal.
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There were two or three times in the second half when he was breaking beyond Wellbeck and was England's furthest player forward.
It's been quite a while since anybody has done that for them.
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Joey Barton gave Delph MOTM, so there you go
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It is also refreshing to see someone in midfield who can go past people. Lampard and Gerrard were so static towards the end of their careers.
I think that's what I liked about Delph's full England debut so much. He looked as if he was really enjoying himself. MOTM, agree.
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But the "experts" on 5Live who kept the focus on him as likely to be sent off any second got on my tits a bit...as if it was the only aspect of his game worth attention.
Tossers!
Well done Fab!
Stay at The Villa!
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Well done Delph. I actually quite enjoyed this game as well. A bit sloppy at times (not Delph) but overall not too bad at all.
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What odds could I get on him missing a penalty in a shootout at Euro 2016?
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After the first 20 minutes he did not once look like getting himself booked again, and should have been given a blatant penalty. Taking the man before the ball is not a fair challenge. Doing it wildly with the potential to injure is wrong.
The lad did well. I really hope both he and Vlaar are still topics for discussion in Villa shirts on here this time next season!
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That was never a penalty.
I thought Delph was OK but the booking shackled him, he didnt, understandably, look as assured and confident as we usually see. It will come though.
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The guy took Delph first, then the ball. As such, it is a penalty.
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He played well depite having the over-hyped . darling of the London Press, Wilshire , playing his usual ´understated ´( piss-poor ) Game , alongside him .
...................Godzvilla!
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Yep. Delph's first touch was not great, but he was in the process of doing his trick of dragging the ball back and then going round the lunging defender. The defender took him out.
By the way, although Delph is quite accompished at this trick, it risks serious injury as Eduardo found out against Blose.
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I do really hope that those three in the midfield, along with the Ox and Milner, are given time to develop and learn together as a trio. The media harp on about the midfield three, learning from other nations etc - you can't expect them to pass like Xavi-Iniesta-Sergio when they do not play together consistently in competitive matches. Delph and Henderson are the energy which will hopefully allow Wilshire to dictate play more, as he gets better at the base of the midfield. Sterling at the point of the diamond gives the X factor which has been lacking from the England MF for a while now, perhaps since a fit, young Joe Cole(?!) played, he's only 19 and under Rodgers has a great manager to learn to improve his decision making under - look at how he was 18 months ago to now. Henderson can't do that running all on his own and Fab allows him to share the role - apart from the usual indiscipline he shows (which international football may teach him to grow out of, helping us too) he had a solid game and fit within the system really well.
It was the first time in ages I actually enjoyed watching England play, and I'm glad a Villa player had a decent part in causing that. As long as we can get him to extend playing matches like tonight will only help the Villa too, and crucially the players around him (Grealish, Westwood etc).
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I thought Delph was decent once he settled. I liked the energy he brought to midfield.
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Delph was excellent once he settled, a little bit too eager to start with.
But how annoying is that condescending twat 'glorious night in Barcelona' Tyldesley? Comments reference Delph achieving International status whilst playing for an also ran club like Villa & a player like Milner achieving 50 caps.
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Delph was excellent once he settled, a little bit too eager to start with.
But how annoying is that condescending twat 'glorious night in Barcelona' Tyldesley? Comments reference Delph achieving International status whilst playing for an also ran club like Villa & a player like Milner achieving 50 caps.
I watched the match with sound on mute(the only way to deal with the facile drivel of Tyldesley and rent a gob Townsend) and listened to the 5 Live commentary - Danny Mills comments on Fabian were positive in that Fabian's energy was an inspiration to those around him. For Fabian's first full cap I thought he was very good.
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Torygraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/11083381/Switzerland-v-England-Three-Lions-have-got-their-teeth-back-claims-manager-Roy-Hogdson-after-2-0-win-in-Basle.html)
Hodgson changed to a diamond formation to allow Welbeck to play through the middle, Raheem Sterling to take the No 10 position and Fabian Delph to make his first England start, playing with Jack Wilshere and Jordan Henderson in midfield.
“These are our talented players,” said Hodgson. “This is the way forward. We’ve got to back them. I’m pleased we adopted a bold approach, asked a lot of these players, but only because if it’s going to work in the future, if this group of players is to become any good, we’ve got to do it from the start. We had to go from the start as we mean to continue, and luckily we got the start which will help us.”
Delph was fortunate not to be sent off inside the first 10 minutes, when he was booked and let off another challenge, but recovered to produce a good performance.
“It’s like everything else – you can take away players’ qualities by speaking to them too much,” said Hodgson. “If you emphasise discipline too much and to be careful in tackles, you can take away elements of their game.
“It’s always the same with people like Fabian Delph, Wayne Rooney and John Stones – their first thoughts are to get up to the ball. We lacked that at the World Cup at times, putting people under pressure and making life difficult for opponents, and I was pleased with that tonight.
“We have to continue working on that. Fabian will come away with some nice remarks, but it’s one game. One cap. I want him to have lots of caps and games for Aston Villa before France comes around. I want him to be a much more competent player than he is now. I’m not saying he’s not competent now, but he can be even better in two years’ time.
"We thought about the diamond at the start of the week, but decided against Norway to start in another way. We thought this could be a good system for our players. The six players I have in front of the back four have tremendous potential: youth, energy, talent.
“They can play in different positions, wide and central. The inclusion of Delph could be regarded as a bolder move given he’s inexperienced, but that’s how he plays for his club team. Being left-footed, it eases things for him as well. I was very pleased with his performance. To come here and do as well as he did deserves a lot of credit.”
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Reading a few of the ratings given in the rags and seeing that Wilshere has been given the same mark as Delph in a lot of the papers shows me why I don't bother usually reading them.
Wilshere, who I have always been a fan of, thinking he will eventually blossom, was remarkably bad last night and Delph was certainly not.
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Wilshere is never a holding midfielder. His instinct is always to drive forward and play a one two. And his long range passing is poor. Carrick is the obvious choice there but I'm not sure who gets the gig long term.
A good performance overall but we still look very shaky defensively
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Wilshere is never a holding midfielder. His instinct is always to drive forward and play a one two. And his long range passing is poor. Carrick is the obvious choice there but I'm not sure who gets the gig long term.
A good performance overall but we still look very shaky defensively
I think that Huddleston and dare I say it Shelvey are more suited to that deep playing midfielder role.
As an aside, this must bring home to Milner the sacrifice he has made. He should be first choice centre midfielder for England but as he never plays there for his club so this cannot happen... He loss, his agents gain.
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The only ratings I saw last night gave Wilshere an 8 and Delph a 5.
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The only two that I have read have been pretty positive
The Guardian:
Fabian Delph recovered his cool to contribute valuably
The Aston Villa man was a horse for a course: he has operated in a 4-3-3 domestically under Paul Lambert, covers an exceptional amount of ground and looks after the ball carefully. A promising opening, in which he made a strong run down the left and popped a couple of decent balls to his front men, threatened to unravel when consecutive lunges on Valon Behrami and Stephan Lichtsteiner earned him a yellow card and a subsequent slide – after he had ill-advisedly let the ball run – caused concern. But Delph knuckled down on his first start and looked more positive after the break, causing problems with bursts down the left and perhaps being unlucky not to win a penalty. He also played a part in subduing Xherdan Shaqiri and can be happy with his night’s work.
Football 365:
Fabian Delph
A positive display despite two rash challenges in the first half, earning your correspondent a welcome £60 with the first booking of the night at 12/1. Thank you, Fabian. The best word to describe Delph's performance is 'energetic', but he also showed composure on the ball to record the highest pass completion rate of all starting players with an impressive 97%. His forward bursts helped to put Switzerland under pressure while he should arguably have had a penalty when he was brought down by Johan Djourou. Will need to keep his cool from the start in future.
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These plaudits are all well and good but when is he going to be signed onto a new Villa contract?!
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As I said I thought he was excellent last night and gave a great account of himself. However it should also mean that Villa's most pressing issue is to sign him to a new deal.
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Delph put in a very good performance (after the first 10mins!) and didnt look out of place at all. He is very good on the ball and as I have said before has fast feet. Wilshire is obviously not a defensive midfielder and I find it difficult to justify his selection at this level. A few pieces of close skill are good on the eye but you need far more than that.
A very good performance from England.
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The only ratings I saw last night gave Wilshere an 8 and Delph a 5.
Well whoever put those is a bl**dy idiot.
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the mirror this morning put Wilshire as an 8 and delph as a 6. Taking off the claret and blue specs, that is till ridiculous!!!
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the mirror this morning put Wilshire as an 8 and delph as a 6. Taking off the claret and blue specs, that is till ridiculous!!!
One paper gave Delph 5/10 and said that he disappeared into his shell once he'd got booked.
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At work, the first thing everybody has said to me (knowing I'm a villa fan) this morning is "Delph played well" so those 5/10 score do not seem to mirror public opinion.
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I was arguing a lot last night with people on that stupid Sports Yapper, It seems to me that people just hate players that play for clubs that they don't like, Plus I was arguing on Facebook with Albion wanker friends of mine who (shock horror) said he was shit, that's utter bollocks. he does need to sort his tackling, his booking was stupid
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the mirror this morning put Wilshire as an 8 and delph as a 6. Taking off the claret and blue specs, that is till ridiculous!!!
It's as if the bloke stopped watching after ten minutes! Or didn't watch at all, and based his ratings on "right, who plays for Arsenal? They must be best".
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Only bit of the match I watched was when the ITV commentary team got soaked by the sprinkler system!
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Wilshere is never a holding midfielder. His instinct is always to drive forward and play a one two. And his long range passing is poor. Carrick is the obvious choice there but I'm not sure who gets the gig long term.
A good performance overall but we still look very shaky defensively
I think that Huddleston and dare I say it Shelvey are more suited to that deep playing midfielder role.
As an aside, this must bring home to Milner the sacrifice he has made. He should be first choice centre midfielder for England but as he never plays there for his club so this cannot happen... He loss, his agents gain.
Huddlestone and Carrick are the two that stand out as being choices for the holding role. To be honest, Westwood could probably do a job in there against the likes of San Marino.
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the mirror this morning put Wilshire as an 8 and delph as a 6. Taking off the claret and blue specs, that is till ridiculous!!!
That's astounding. Wilshere gave the ball away so many times last night, even when under little pressure. His reckless fouls aside, Delph was good on the ball and hardly gave possession away at all.
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I missed a lot of the game watching that fat pie eating bastard Chris Froome take on the combined Spanish and south American bike mafia and ride his guts out for the British team in the mountains of Asturia. Delph looked five times more effective than Gerrard or Fat Frank so a 5 out 10 is about what you would expect from the meedja.
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Delph was great throughout.
Agree, very good performance, the only issue being that he let himself down with a couple of rash tackles early on and had to hang back from challenges later in the game.
you could have cut and pasted that from any of his games for the last 2 years!
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the mirror this morning put Wilshire as an 8 and delph as a 6. Taking off the claret and blue specs, that is till ridiculous!!!
That's astounding. Wilshere gave the ball away so many times last night, even when under little pressure. His reckless fouls aside, Delph was good on the ball and hardly gave possession away at all.
The Telegraph
England were in good shape with the midfield diamond and with Jack Wilshere, rather than Jordan Henderson, at its base. It allowed Henderson to use his running power and it required Wilshere to be more disciplined. England lack a specialist in this area there but Wilshere is the best candidate and could make it his own. He needs to be more comfortable in going deep to collect the ball from the defence and needs to know when to surge forward – as he did at the start of the second half when his low shot was saved. He has an eye for a pass and he can build the play from this position.
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As I said I thought he was excellent last night and gave a great account of himself. However it should also mean that Villa's most pressing issue is to sign him to a new deal.
Apparently we're going to sit down with him "later this month".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/11084052/Fabian-Delphs-new-Aston-Villa-contract-of-top-priority-for-Paul-Lambert-and-will-reopen-talks-with-midfielder.html
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At work, the first thing everybody has said to me (knowing I'm a villa fan) this morning is "Delph played well" so those 5/10 score do not seem to mirror public opinion.
Same here , backed up with he'll be off to a top 4 club.
so I think we should side with the rags and say wilshire was better , utter tripe.
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He was a solid, (sexy?) seven out of ten. Which reminds me of H&V poster ''The Situation" who boasted of only bedding eights and nines.
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the mirror this morning put Wilshire as an 8 and delph as a 6. Taking off the claret and blue specs, that is till ridiculous!!!
That's astounding. Wilshere gave the ball away so many times last night, even when under little pressure. His reckless fouls aside, Delph was good on the ball and hardly gave possession away at all.
The Telegraph
England were in good shape with the midfield diamond and with Jack Wilshere, rather than Jordan Henderson, at its base. It allowed Henderson to use his running power and it required Wilshere to be more disciplined. England lack a specialist in this area there but Wilshere is the best candidate and could make it his own. He needs to be more comfortable in going deep to collect the ball from the defence and needs to know when to surge forward – as he did at the start of the second half when his low shot was saved. He has an eye for a pass and he can build the play from this position.
I seriously can't believe that. Best candidate? Wilshere showed absolutely nothing last night to suggest he should ever play in that position again let alone at international level. There is clearly an agenda at play there.
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He was a solid, (sexy?) seven out of ten. Which reminds me of H&V poster ''The Situation" who boasted of only bedding eights and nines.
And kept a Glock under his bed.
Which, presumably, he used to "off" any 7s and below who managed to make it that far.
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Giving bedmates ratings is a trifle recherchez. I had a very good Scottish mate who was in much demand with those of the feminine gender who, when I asked about his latest girlfriend replied "she may not look much but in bed she is an ice cream slider". I do not know what that is but the combined imagery of sweetness, smoothness, stickiness, creaminess and slipperiness I found extremely appropriate and erotic.
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Giving bedmates ratings is a trifle recherchez. I had a very good Scottish mate who was in much demand with those of the feminine gender who, when I asked about his latest girlfriend replied "she may not look much but in bed she is an ice cream slider". I do not know what that is but the combined imagery of sweetness, smoothness, stickiness, creaminess and slipperiness I found extremely appropriate and erotic.
It certainly brings different emotions to mind than "she bangs like the shithouse door in the wind".
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Yes, but if she mings then what's the point?
You can introduce the filth into your girlfriend's bedroom repertoire, but you can't make her look any prettier.
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Yes, but if she mings then what's the point?
You can introduce the filth into your girlfriend's bedroom repertoire, but you can't make her look any prettier.
We're not all blessed with your power, wealth and good looks. Some of us have to make compromises.
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At work, the first thing everybody has said to me (knowing I'm a villa fan) this morning is "Delph played well" so those 5/10 score do not seem to mirror public opinion.
Same here , backed up with he'll be off to a top 4 club.
so I think we should side with the rags and say wilshire was better , utter tripe.
Wilshire was utter garbage and he does an impression of Jamie Redknapp with every passing game. I.e in terminal decline from the age of 21. Beats one player - sometimes - and then gives the ball away. Or passes a bog standard 8 yard to a player in space.
Delph and Henderson created time and space for him which he didn't utilise effectively.
Also that Gobshite Tyledlsey kept telling everyone what a great game Phil Jones had. Bellend.
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Decent debut for Delph. Looked lively going forward, decent on the ball, and worked hard to track back. The one main issue was his rash tackling and slight naivty, but a promising first full performance.
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Yes, but if she mings then what's the point?
You can introduce the filth into your girlfriend's bedroom repertoire, but you can't make her look any prettier.
We're not all blessed with your power, wealth and good looks. Some of us have to make compromises.
Like sometimes you go on top?
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I thought Phil Jones did ok considering Fergie did everything he could to turn a promising central defender into a utility player, made a couple of poor passes but generally defended well and could easily have scored with the header in the first half, not brilliant but more than decent for me.
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Yes, but if she mings then what's the point?
You can introduce the filth into your girlfriend's bedroom repertoire, but you can't make her look any prettier.
We're not all blessed with your power, wealth and good looks. Some of us have to make compromises.
Like sometimes you go on top?
More like "I'll undress myself" and "we can skip the teabagging this time".
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Giving bedmates ratings is a trifle recherchez. I had a very good Scottish mate who was in much demand with those of the feminine gender who, when I asked about his latest girlfriend replied "she may not look much but in bed she is an ice cream slider". I do not know what that is but the combined imagery of sweetness, smoothness, stickiness, creaminess and slipperiness I found extremely appropriate and erotic.
you disgust me. filth ::)
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What annoyed me about Wilshere was him not wanting to take the ball off the two central defenders. Time after time they had the ball and were looking for someone to give it to and Jack was stood 15yards away holding hands with an opponent. That meant they had to generally send it long instead of him taking it off them and spraying it about.
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What annoyed me about Wilshere was him not wanting to take the ball off the two central defenders. Time after time they had the ball and were looking for someone to give it to and Jack was stood 15yards away holding hands with an opponent. That meant they had to generally send it long instead of him taking it off them and spraying it about.
be honest, he's just not that good. and to hold hands with the oposition player is a way of saying "dont give me the ball" looks like weve found him out, but the rags will go on saying what a good player he is.
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What annoyed me about Wilshere was him not wanting to take the ball off the two central defenders. Time after time they had the ball and were looking for someone to give it to and Jack was stood 15yards away holding hands with an opponent. That meant they had to generally send it long instead of him taking it off them and spraying it about.
that was exactly what I thought. I was by no means a fan of Gerrards but at least he did make himself available to receive the ball off the central defenders, it was only from that point on that things tended to go wrong
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I thought Phil Jones did ok considering Fergie did everything he could to turn a promising central defender into a utility player, made a couple of poor passes but generally defended well and could easily have scored with the header in the first half, not brilliant but more than decent for me.
I agree he did ok. A McGrath incarnate he was not
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Wilshere reminded me of Bannan, never available when players needed help, tried to hard to make a fancy pass instead of simple stuff, awful defensive positioning and terrible tracking back. Cant tackle. Thinks he is brilliant. Awful player.
My take on this role is that had Milner stayed on at Villa or gone to another team that developed him, he would be England captain today.
Was really impressed with Wellbeck, who showed lots of desire like Delph to win balls he had no right to. Sterling and Henderson played well, as did Hart and Cahill
Jones, pretty average, and im concerned about that position, Phil Jagielka is no better. I thought Baines lacked pace and kept getting caught forward leaving us looking very short at the back
Another average apperance by Rooney
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Rooney can trap a ball further than I can kick it. Scandalous for a £300k a week footballer.
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Rooney can trap a ball further than I can kick it. Scandalous for a £300k a week footballer.
One touch wonder, touch it once, wonder where it went
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What annoyed me about Wilshere was him not wanting to take the ball off the two central defenders. Time after time they had the ball and were looking for someone to give it to and Jack was stood 15yards away holding hands with an opponent. That meant they had to generally send it long instead of him taking it off them and spraying it about.
that was exactly what I thought. I was by no means a fan of Gerrards but at least he did make himself available to receive the ball off the central defenders, it was only from that point on that things tended to go wrong
When our centre backs had it Wilshere was hopeless....he hid behind their centre forward!
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Praise for wiltshire is due tohim being a media luvvie just lke any united player that plays.
I know its naive to expect player loyalty but come on delphie remember how this club has supported you through year after year of shit form and major injury
sign the deal
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I think Wilshire can become a good defensive midfielder, given time. The following quote suggests that he is mindful that it is the position at both club and country when he can prosper most. I just wish one of Lampard or Gerrard had a small enough ego to sacrifice their own glory for the good of the team.
From the evening standard:
The 22-year-old’s best position for club and country has frequently been debated but after a promising outing against Switzerland, he says he will take time out at Arsenal to watch some of defensive midfield specialists in a bid to improve in time for next month’s double header against San Marino and Estonia
“I spoke with the manager and Gary Neville in the week and they told me they wanted me to play that role and I quite enjoyed it,” Wilshere said.
“It was my first time ever playing there so over the next month or so I am going to look at a few videos of this game and of players who play in that position regularly — [Andrea] Pirlo, [Javier] Mascherano and players like that — and I’ll get better.
“I felt it went well last night but next time we meet up I feel it can only go better.”
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If ever there was a time that we needed a defensive midfielder it would be San Marino and Estonia.
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I think Wilshire can become a good defensive midfielder, given time. The following quote suggests that he is mindful that it is the position at both club and country when he can prosper most. I just wish one of Lampard or Gerrard had a small enough ego to sacrifice their own glory for the good of the team.
From the evening standard:
The 22-year-old’s best position for club and country has frequently been debated but after a promising outing against Switzerland, he says he will take time out at Arsenal to watch some of defensive midfield specialists in a bid to improve in time for next month’s double header against San Marino and Estonia
“I spoke with the manager and Gary Neville in the week and they told me they wanted me to play that role and I quite enjoyed it,” Wilshere said.
“It was my first time ever playing there so over the next month or so I am going to look at a few videos of this game and of players who play in that position regularly — [Andrea] Pirlo, [Javier] Mascherano and players like that — and I’ll get better.
“I felt it went well last night but next time we meet up I feel it can only go better.”
Is it me, or have the London media gone into overdrive in trying to promote Wilshere after last night? I accept he's probably never played in that position before (which begs the question why he wasn't played there against Norway if the coaching staff were considering it), but I just can't see how he is suited to it at all.
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What does recherchez mean again?
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I thought Phil Jones did ok considering Fergie did everything he could to turn a promising central defender into a utility player, made a couple of poor passes but generally defended well and could easily have scored with the header in the first half, not brilliant but more than decent for me.
I agree he did ok. A McGrath incarnate he was not
The jury is still out on Jones and he needs to be playing CB week in week out at club level if he's going to improve. I thought Gary Cahill was very good though and really should be captaining the side.
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Eamonn, recherchez means despite both your own and her advancing decrepitude you could still give Cher one.
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I think Wilshire can become a good defensive midfielder, given time. The following quote suggests that he is mindful that it is the position at both club and country when he can prosper most. I just wish one of Lampard or Gerrard had a small enough ego to sacrifice their own glory for the good of the team.
From the evening standard:
The 22-year-old’s best position for club and country has frequently been debated but after a promising outing against Switzerland, he says he will take time out at Arsenal to watch some of defensive midfield specialists in a bid to improve in time for next month’s double header against San Marino and Estonia
“I spoke with the manager and Gary Neville in the week and they told me they wanted me to play that role and I quite enjoyed it,” Wilshere said.
“It was my first time ever playing there so over the next month or so I am going to look at a few videos of this game and of players who play in that position regularly — [Andrea] Pirlo, [Javier] Mascherano and players like that — and I’ll get better.
“I felt it went well last night but next time we meet up I feel it can only go better.”
If I was asked to play DM for England I'd watch tons of pirlo, mascherano and makelele videos
It doesn't mean I'd be any good. I just don't see wilshere there. His instincts are to drive forward, drift with the ball, play a one two, etc. Carrick is the obvious choice once fit. Not sure who is up and coming in that position though.
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I thought Phil Jones did ok considering Fergie did everything he could to turn a promising central defender into a utility player, made a couple of poor passes but generally defended well and could easily have scored with the header in the first half, not brilliant but more than decent for me.
I agree he did ok. A McGrath incarnate he was not
The jury is still out on Jones and he needs to be playing CB week in week out at club level if he's going to improve. I thought Gary Cahill was very good though and really should be captaining the side.
Cahill had a very good game.
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Cahill did have a very good game, as he does occassionaly. But he never strikes me as being 100% reliable in any match at international level.
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I think Wilshire can become a good defensive midfielder, given time. The following quote suggests that he is mindful that it is the position at both club and country when he can prosper most. I just wish one of Lampard or Gerrard had a small enough ego to sacrifice their own glory for the good of the team.
From the evening standard:
The 22-year-old’s best position for club and country has frequently been debated but after a promising outing against Switzerland, he says he will take time out at Arsenal to watch some of defensive midfield specialists in a bid to improve in time for next month’s double header against San Marino and Estonia
“I spoke with the manager and Gary Neville in the week and they told me they wanted me to play that role and I quite enjoyed it,” Wilshere said.
“It was my first time ever playing there so over the next month or so I am going to look at a few videos of this game and of players who play in that position regularly — [Andrea] Pirlo, [Javier] Mascherano and players like that — and I’ll get better.
“I felt it went well last night but next time we meet up I feel it can only go better.”
If I was asked to play DM for England I'd watch tons of pirlo, mascherano and makelele videos
It doesn't mean I'd be any good. I just don't see wilshere there. His instincts are to drive forward, drift with the ball, play a one two, etc. Carrick is the obvious choice once fit. Not sure who is up and coming in that position though.
Totally agree Matt. I quite liked the diamond formation and think that going forward the options could be:
Carrick / Huddlestone
Henderson / Milner Delph / Wilshere
Sterling / Ox / Lallana / Barkley
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Huddlestone's far too ineffective without the ball for me. His lack of mobility would be a huge liability in International football. Even a 53 year old Pirlo gets around the pitch with more ease. Carrick could do it though, especially if he had the energy of Delph and Henderson in front of him.
I just don't see the fuss with Wilshere. He's obviously a technically good footballer, but I don;t think he excels at any particular part of the game. He keeps the ball well enough, but certainly no better than Delph and without Delph's energy and tenacity. It's pretty inexcusable to not have the energy to complete 90 minutes as a holding midfielder in an International game, when you've been pictured smoking more than once. I actually think he's going to struggle for regular games in Arsenal's starting XI when everyone's fit.
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Thought Huddlestone was garbage in the recent game at VP. Yeah he does a couple of nice passes per game but you need a fair bit more than that as Delph showed getting around the pitch.
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I thought Phil Jones did ok considering Fergie did everything he could to turn a promising central defender into a utility player, made a couple of poor passes but generally defended well and could easily have scored with the header in the first half, not brilliant but more than decent for me.
I agree he did ok. A McGrath incarnate he was not
The jury is still out on Jones and he needs to be playing CB week in week out at club level if he's going to improve. I thought Gary Cahill was very good though and really should be captaining the side.
I agree completely that playing as a centre back week in week out is essential for him, I said that in my initial comment, he's done the same with Cleverley, Welbeck and Smalling as well. All of them looked very promising as kids but have stalled badly after he's tried to turn them into something they're not.
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I think Wilshire can become a good defensive midfielder, given time. The following quote suggests that he is mindful that it is the position at both club and country when he can prosper most. I just wish one of Lampard or Gerrard had a small enough ego to sacrifice their own glory for the good of the team.
From the evening standard:
The 22-year-old’s best position for club and country has frequently been debated but after a promising outing against Switzerland, he says he will take time out at Arsenal to watch some of defensive midfield specialists in a bid to improve in time for next month’s double header against San Marino and Estonia
“I spoke with the manager and Gary Neville in the week and they told me they wanted me to play that role and I quite enjoyed it,” Wilshere said.
“It was my first time ever playing there so over the next month or so I am going to look at a few videos of this game and of players who play in that position regularly — [Andrea] Pirlo, [Javier] Mascherano and players like that — and I’ll get better.
“I felt it went well last night but next time we meet up I feel it can only go better.”
Wilshere isn't physically big enough or strong enough to be a defensive midfielder IMO.
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Thought Huddlestone was garbage in the recent game at VP. Yeah he does a couple of nice passes per game but you need a fair bit more than that as Delph showed getting around the pitch.
Not so much in the diamond formation, as the defensive midfielder has three players in front of them to do that. The job of the defensive midfielder in that formation is to sit in front of the back four and provide protection rather than be all over the pitch. I don't think mobility and athleticism is as key in that particular position, and feel that is why it would be a good role for Ashley Westwood in Villa's midfield.
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"Sit" is probably the most misleading word in football. I keep hearing it bandied about like the defensive midfielder only has a 2 square-metre area of pitch to cover. Even 'holding' midfielder is a bit misleading. Yes - they play very much in front of the back 4 and aren't expected to get forwards, but they do have to be able to get from touch-line to touchline quickly and occupy space, close-down angels, etc. when the opposition are in possession. You can ger away with an immobile quarter-back style midfielder (like Huddlestone) if you're a team that dominates possession, but if you're not you really need to sacrifice some of that ability on the ball to add a bit of mobility and defence mindedness. Look at the performances of Mascherano and Nigel De Jong in the World Cup. They're the type of player that England really need.
Hopefully in the coming months this is a job that Carlos Sanchez will be doing for us.
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Thought Huddlestone was garbage in the recent game at VP. Yeah he does a couple of nice passes per game but you need a fair bit more than that as Delph showed getting around the pitch.
There was a Hull fan on TalkSport yesterday claiming that the only reason Huddlestone and Curtis Davies aren't in the England squad is because they play for an unfashionable club. I can only assume he didn't see their game against us.
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I can't believe people are talking about Huddlestone as a potential England player, even ignoring the mobility issues he's no better than average, he does play the odd hollywood pass but that's about all he offers, I genuniely think Westwood has more chance of getting in the England squad as the defensive midfielder.
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I can't believe people are talking about Huddlestone as a potential England player, even ignoring the mobility issues he's no better than average, he does play the odd hollywood pass but that's about all he offers, I genuniely think Westwood has more chance of getting in the England squad as the defensive midfielder.
It's because in this country we confuse the role defensive midfielder with the British idea of a gifted but lazy bastard who can smack the ball really far with more accuracy than his teammates.
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Wilshere isn't physically big enough or strong enough to be a defensive midfielder IMO.
Makelele was 5ft 7 and weighed about 10 stone.
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Wilshere isn't physically big enough or strong enough to be a defensive midfielder IMO.
Makelele was 5ft 7 and weighed about 10 stone.
And Mascherano is only 5' 8".
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As Makelele and Mascherano have shown big build isn't required for a defensive midfielder. However fitness and work rate are absolutely vital.
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As Makelele and Mascherano have shown big build isn't required for a defensive midfielder. However fitness and work rate are absolutely vital.
I'd say that and their overall level of awareness and understanding of the game helps set them apart. You don't need to have Tackling and Aggression 20 on Football Manager to be a great DM. Anticipation and an ability read the game are critical components.
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I thought Phil Jones did ok considering Fergie did everything he could to turn a promising central defender into a utility player, made a couple of poor passes but generally defended well and could easily have scored with the header in the first half, not brilliant but more than decent for me.
I agree he did ok. A McGrath incarnate he was not
The jury is still out on Jones and he needs to be playing CB week in week out at club level if he's going to improve. I thought Gary Cahill was very good though and really should be captaining the side.
I agree completely that playing as a centre back week in week out is essential for him, I said that in my initial comment, he's done the same with Cleverley, Welbeck and Smalling as well. All of them looked very promising as kids but have stalled badly after he's tried to turn them into something they're not.
Exactly the conversation I was having yesterday. I've said before that Welbeck's games for England have been far more telling about his potential than those he played for ManUre, because he's been played to his strengths. I think Arsenal have got a total bargain* and he'll hit some important goals for them.
I'm hoping the same is true for TC23: that he will flourish for Villa because we play to his strengths.
* in the context of the current market.
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As Makelele and Mascherano have shown big build isn't required for a defensive midfielder. However fitness and work rate are absolutely vital.
I'd say that and their overall level of awareness and understanding of the game helps set them apart. You don't need to have Tackling and Aggression 20 on Football Manager to be a great DM. Anticipation and an ability read the game are critical components.
Quite - Wilshere might not be (and might never be) a great defensive midfielder, but it isn't because he's not big and strong enough.
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Medel isn't huge either. I think in the premier league size is more important than at international level. Pirlo did not always play in there either. I think Wilshire is a good enough footballer to work it out given time to do so, but needs to play there a bit for Arsenal too.
If he was better at the defensive role, Westwood would have a shout.
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As Makelele and Mascherano have shown big build isn't required for a defensive midfielder. However fitness and work rate are absolutely vital.
I'd say that and their overall level of awareness and understanding of the game helps set them apart. You don't need to have Tackling and Aggression 20 on Football Manager to be a great DM. Anticipation and an ability read the game are critical components.
Quite - Wilshere might not be (and might never be) a great defensive midfielder, but it isn't because he's not big and strong enough.
What I like from his original quote* was that he is prepared to do his own research and develop his game. Compared to other recent 'star' players there has not been this willingness (Gerrard I'm looking at you) so that in itself is quite refreshing.
* I appreciate that what a player says in an interview and what they actually do, are not necessarily linked.
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A specialist defensive midfield is, to me, like a flyhalf in rugby, the physique and skillset is all useful but the key quality to make it in that role at the top level is game management. Makelele, Mascherano and Pirlo have all made it look easy because they read the game brilliantly and know where to be defensively but then going forward they can use that to find the right pass and change the point of attack. For me Wilshere doesn't read the game anything like well enough, yet. Huddlestone just doesn't have the defensive side of it and he's always looking for the wonder pass that creates something from nothing, which should only be an option rather than the option.
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"Sit" is probably the most misleading word in football. I keep hearing it bandied about like the defensive midfielder only has a 2 square-metre area of pitch to cover. Even 'holding' midfielder is a bit misleading. Yes - they play very much in front of the back 4 and aren't expected to get forwards, but they do have to be able to get from touch-line to touchline quickly and occupy space, close-down angels, etc. when the opposition are in possession. You can ger away with an immobile quarter-back style midfielder (like Huddlestone) if you're a team that dominates possession, but if you're not you really need to sacrifice some of that ability on the ball to add a bit of mobility and defence mindedness. Look at the performances of Mascherano and Nigel De Jong in the World Cup. They're the type of player that England really need.
Hopefully in the coming months this is a job that Carlos Sanchez will be doing for us.
Some good points there Russell. Before his injuries, I've always thought Owen Hargreaves was the best player England had had in that position for years.
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A specialist defensive midfield is, to me, like a flyhalf in rugby, the physique and skillset is all useful but the key quality to make it in that role at the top level is game management. Makelele, Mascherano and Pirlo have all made it look easy because they read the game brilliantly and know where to be defensively but then going forward they can use that to find the right pass and change the point of attack. For me Wilshere doesn't read the game anything like well enough, yet. Huddlestone just doesn't have the defensive side of it and he's always looking for the wonder pass that creates something from nothing, which should only be an option rather than the option.
I agree with that completely. 'Game management' is something that England players have not particularly grasped. Suarez's winner v England in the WC is a great example: Gerrard and Jagielka both attacking a high ball whereas the game demanded that a more cautious approached was called for from one of the players.
This lack of intelligence can possibly explained by the awe that was given to mourinho when it was revealed that his teams train for hypothetical game situations asking the players to discuss and identify tactics for when the team is say 1-0 up, down to ten men, 1-0 down, in extra time etc. The revelation that all managers do not do this surprised me somewhat.
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A specialist defensive midfield is, to me, like a flyhalf in rugby, the physique and skillset is all useful but the key quality to make it in that role at the top level is game management. Makelele, Mascherano and Pirlo have all made it look easy because they read the game brilliantly and know where to be defensively but then going forward they can use that to find the right pass and change the point of attack. For me Wilshere doesn't read the game anything like well enough, yet. Huddlestone just doesn't have the defensive side of it and he's always looking for the wonder pass that creates something from nothing, which should only be an option rather than the option.
I agree with that completely. 'Game management' is something that England players have not particularly grasped. Suarez's winner v England in the WC is a great example: Gerrard and Jagielka both attacking a high ball whereas the game demanded that a more cautious approached was called for from one of the players.
This lack of intelligence can possibly explained by the awe that was given to mourinho when it was revealed that his teams train for hypothetical game situations asking the players to discuss and identify tactics for when the team is say 1-0 up, down to ten men, 1-0 down, in extra time etc. The revelation that all managers do not do this surprised me somewhat.
It doesn't surprise me in the slightest. The whole English game is cloaked in a blanket of complacency, insularity and utter incompetence from top to bottom.
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The only ratings I saw last night gave Wilshere an 8 and Delph a 5.
Evening Standard I presume?
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Wilshere isn't physically big enough or strong enough to be a defensive midfielder IMO.
Makelele was 5ft 7 and weighed about 10 stone.
And Mascherano is only 5' 8".
Once again this obsession with facts spoils a perfectly futile debate!
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Wilshere isn't physically big enough or strong enough to be a defensive midfielder IMO.
Makelele was 5ft 7 and weighed about 10 stone.
And Mascherano is only 5' 8".
Once again this obsession with facts spoils a perfectly futile debate!
Yeah, but what is their density though?
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Wilshere isn't physically big enough or strong enough to be a defensive midfielder IMO.
Makelele was 5ft 7 and weighed about 10 stone.
And Mascherano is only 5' 8".
Once again this obsession with facts spoils a perfectly futile debate!
Yeah, but what is their density though?
I think it is reasonable to deduce that most footballers are very dense.
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Wilshere isn't physically big enough or strong enough to be a defensive midfielder IMO.
Makelele was 5ft 7 and weighed about 10 stone.
And Mascherano is only 5' 8".
How big were Nobby Stiles or Billy Bremner? Both excellent defensive midfield players.
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Wilshere isn't physically big enough or strong enough to be a defensive midfielder IMO.
Makelele was 5ft 7 and weighed about 10 stone.
And Mascherano is only 5' 8".
How big were Nobby Stiles or Billy Bremner? Both excellent defensive midfield players.
In very different eras is has to be noted JD.
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Finally able to check in after a week and a bit offline.
I thought Delphy did quite well. He was the best of the three in CM. Saying that, if he doesn't curb the maniacal tackling, he'll struggle at International level, but after a crazy first 20 minutes he settled in well IMO.
Wilshere persistently flatters to deceive.
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Wilshere isn't physically big enough or strong enough to be a defensive midfielder IMO.
Makelele was 5ft 7 and weighed about 10 stone.
And Mascherano is only 5' 8".
Once again this obsession with facts spoils a perfectly futile debate!
Yeah, but what is their density though?
I think it is reasonable to deduce that most footballers are very dense.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/a3/a3ed132855e5e359aae38c5f4e8ae29873c19216662f62675504b4f7a0498c52.jpg)
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Birmingham Mail (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-paul-lambert-wants-7762511)
Aston Villa: Paul Lambert wants new CEO Tom Fox to sort out Fabian Delph's contract
Extended deal for England midfielder is on chief executive's 'to do' list
Sep 12, 2014 15:26
By Mat Kendrick
Paul Lambert has urged Aston Villa’s new chief executive Tom Fox to help him seal a deal for Fabian Delph as the England midfielder’s contract ticks down.
Fox, who has replaced Paul Faulkner as CEO, started work earlier this week and resolving the futures of several players is high up his ‘to do’ list.
The former Arsenal employee has met Lambert briefly and the boss is anxious for Fox to sort contract extensions for Delph, Ron Vlaar and Jack Grealish.
Current longest serving player Gabby Agbonlahor ended doubts about his future by signing a new four-year deal on Wednesday.
Lambert hopes the arrival of Fox will get things moving with players’ contracts after finance officer Robin Russell filled in as CEO on a temporary basis.
“There a few players who are going to be out of contract, to be honest, and we’ll try to get around to talking to them,” said Lambert.
“I spoke to Fabian early doors and we’ll see how it goes.
“We’ve just got a new chief executive in (Tom Fox) which I’m certain will help.
“I’m pretty sure we’ll sit down with Fabian. I’m not worried. When players get into the last year of their contract, it is what it is.
“It’s not any great issue. Conversations will go on.
“I met Tom the other day, he’s a really good guy and I’m pretty sure things will start to happen pretty soon.”
Lambert was full of praise for Delph after the midfielder’s first start for England in Monday night’s Euro 2016 qualifying win in Switzerland.
After getting booked and flying into tackles during the early stages of the game Delph settled down and produced an encouraging performance.
“I didn’t see his first appearance against Norway because I was away watching a game myself,” said Lambert.
“But I saw his full debut against Switzerland and I thought he grew into the game and was excellent. As the game went on he was great.
“If you perform like that, then hopefully when the next squad is announced he’ll be back in it again.
“He’s been playing well for me for the last few years, so it’s not something that has surprised me. I’ve always said that he wouldn’t let anybody down and I’m delighted for him for the way he played.”
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“There a few players who are going to be out of contract, to be honest, and we’ll try to get around to talking to them,”
That isn't the most encouraging statement of urgency.
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“There a few players who are going to be out of contract, to be honest, and we’ll try to get around to talking to them,”
That isn't the most encouraging statement of urgency.
But isn't that kind of how he answers everything? I wouldn't read anything into that. I think most importantly, and he alluded to that with the CEO being there the new contracts will be his priorities.
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Wilshere isn't physically big enough or strong enough to be a defensive midfielder IMO.
Makelele was 5ft 7 and weighed about 10 stone.
And Mascherano is only 5' 8".
Altogether now
Lifts in your boots
You're wearing lifts in your boots
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“There a few players who are going to be out of contract, to be honest, and we’ll try to get around to talking to them,”
That isn't the most encouraging statement of urgency.
But isn't that kind of how he answers everything? I wouldn't read anything into that. I think most importantly, and he alluded to that with the CEO being there the new contracts will be his priorities.
He's just calming things down. Is he supposed to look panicked and say "Oh my God, oh my God, we're going to lose him." The contract negotiations will no doubt be urgent priorities for Tom Fox.
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Delph will sign
Grealish will definitely sign
I think Vlaar is dependent on what the agent has already lined up.
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Delph will sign
Grealish will definitely sign
I think Vlaar is dependent on what the agent has already lined up.
Agreed. Much of it does depend on how we do this season, but I can understand why at his age Vlaar would be tempted to move on. As long as he sees out his contract and we get some decent money I don't mind that.
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Delph will sign
Grealish will definitely sign
I think Vlaar is dependent on what the agent has already lined up.
Agreed. Much of it does depend on how we do this season, but I can understand why at his age Vlaar would be tempted to move on. As long as he sees out his contract and we get some decent money I don't mind that.
If he sees out his contract, we get nothing.
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Delph will sign
Grealish will definitely sign
I think Vlaar is dependent on what the agent has already lined up.
Agreed. Much of it does depend on how we do this season, but I can understand why at his age Vlaar would be tempted to move on. As long as he sees out his contract and we get some decent money I don't mind that.
If he sees out his contract, we get nothing.
Good point well made!
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Delph has just made Club England. I'd say there is more chance of Vlaar remaining, but -as we've left this so late- I think it's likely that both will be off. Barring silly money offers from new owners.