Delph for England

[danno]

The depressing thing for me about last night was that Sterling looked great when he moved infield,
the team looked better after the substitutions, yet Wilshire and Rooney will both start the next game.

[Dave]

His goal count is significantly devalued by the fact that IMO he should not have been picked in many of the games he has been because he has been picked solely on the ideal that he is the great Wayne Rooney, when in truth for about 3 seasons he has been completely and utterly shit.

Surely if he was picked and scored goals in those games,  then he's justified the decision to pick him?

[paulcomben]

Fabian Delph's international debut means Aston Villa have produced more England internationals than any other club: 72nd to be capped.

[Dave]

Fabian Delph's international debut means Aston Villa have produced more England internationals than any other club: 72nd to be capped.

Although, we had done so even before Delph had been picked. And will carry on doing so until Spurs make up about ten or so on us I believe. Presumably Eric Dier will be the next one that starts eating back into our lead.

Plus I think it's 73. The 72 doesn't include Scott Carson who we had on loan when he did his England stuff.

[Lastfootstamper]

Fabian Delph's international debut means Aston Villa have produced more England internationals than any other club: 72nd to be capped.

I'm pretty sure that that's one record we have anyway, irrespective of last night. Last time I saw a stat, I think we were about a whole team's-worth ahead of our closest contenders.

[brontebilly]

The depressing thing for me about last night was that Sterling looked great when he moved infield,
the team looked better after the substitutions, yet Wilshire and Rooney will both start the next game.

Both Wilshere and Rooney's careers look in serious decline. Both could be out of their clubs sides before long if they dont buck up their ideas. Wilshere played well in a friendly once for England, hasnt done anything of note since.

[Louzie0]

Sadly true, which means Delph for England!
Aaaaah, Go on. Go on. Gowan, Gowan, Gowan, Gowan, Gowan, Gowan, Gowan!

Either Roy comes to his senses or I underwrite a fifteenth series of Father Ted.

[Olof's Beard]

Fabian Delph's international debut means Aston Villa have produced more England internationals than any other club: 72nd to be capped.

Although, we had done so even before Delph had been picked. And will carry on doing so until Spurs make up about ten or so on us I believe. Presumably Eric Dier will be the next one that starts eating back into our lead.

Plus I think it's 73. The 72 doesn't include Scott Carson who we had on loan when he did his England stuff.

Liverpool are only four behind us I believe.  Lallana will peg us back another as well.

[peter w]

Wembley looks as empty as it used to be in the 80s for friendlies. And home internationals against Wales and N Ireland.

40,000 for an England game, 28,000 at the Villa.

Bubble well and truly bursting I reckon.......what's that, Rooney and Falcao on £300,000 a week......hhmmmmm.

I am going to take my lad to the Slovenia game in November. Family tickets still available - £20 adults , £10 kids.

http://ticketing.thefa.com/?utm_source=AMS&utm_medium=Clicktracker%2004&utm_campaign=CLICKTRACKER%20CAMPAIGN:%20Autumn%20Qualifiers%202014

Ta for that I'll take my 5 year-old.

[peter w]

If we are looking for radial thinking then maybe its time to look at the set-up of our game. Maybe there is something in allowing Premier League team reserves play in the pyramid system as they do in Spain and I believe Germany.   This would allow players to get the experience of first team football outside of the win at all costs mentality of first teams in the Prem league and away from the baying unforgiving fans. But, despite it being proven to be successful everywhere there is also a tendency for us to think that as we started all this off we'll never change our set-up to ape that of Europe (some of it). Its the last bastion of Englishness and anti-European (or in general johnny foreigner) that we have and no-one is prepared to change.

[tomd2103]

If we are looking for radial thinking then maybe its time to look at the set-up of our game. Maybe there is something in allowing Premier League team reserves play in the pyramid system as they do in Spain and I believe Germany.   This would allow players to get the experience of first team football outside of the win at all costs mentality of first teams in the Prem league and away from the baying unforgiving fans. But, despite it being proven to be successful everywhere there is also a tendency for us to think that as we started all this off we'll never change our set-up to ape that of Europe (some of it). Its the last bastion of Englishness and anti-European (or in general johnny foreigner) that we have and no-one is prepared to change.

Really wouldn't want to see that Peter.  Maybe expanding the JPT and letting Premier League Reserve teams into that might be an idea. 

[PeterWithesShin]

And what happens to the reserve/U21 teams of clubs promoted and relegated? Going to keep kicking teams out of the pyramid and replacing them with a different club?
And what level of the pyramid do you stick them and at the expense of what other clubs? You can't just expand one division by 20 teams. How far up the pyramid do they go?
If you can work out the logistics of 20 team suddenly joining the pyramid, no use dumping them low down as most will be way better than the non league sides they'd be facing.
Plus it's U21 now, I don't fancy a Villa side made of 17-20 year olds going up against a bunch of 25 year old lower league/non league players week in week out.

[peter w]

And what happens to the reserve/U21 teams of clubs promoted and relegated? Going to keep kicking teams out of the pyramid and replacing them with a different club?

Basically, yes. That's no difference to promotion and relegation. Where do they go? Well they'll replace the 3 clubs that will have left the reserve/U-21 leagues to come up.

And what level of the pyramid do you stick them and at the expense of what other clubs? You can't just expand one division by 20 teams.

Well this is where you have to start looking at the pyramid system which is largely  unsustainable in its present format.  Most of the Conference is professional now yet a level or two below and the standard is no better than before and yet the costs are higher. Its a question of what we want. if its a successful England team we have to look at younger players being given a berth lower down the leagues. We want our players to go out on loan as it is having a team there that can afford to be there costs wise is one issue, allowing your players develop and having a season of competitive football where they are not under nthe pressure of success or failure can only help their clubs first team, and ultimately England.

How far up the pyramid do they go?

No higher then Championship

If you can work out the logistics of 20 team suddenly joining the pyramid, no use dumping them low down as most will be way better than the non league sides they'd be facing.
Plus it's U21 now, I don't fancy a Villa side made of 17-20 year olds going up against a bunch of 25 year old lower league/non league players week in week out.

Division Four, League Two can become a North and South divide once mofre - not ideal but an aoption and a way of fighting 20 new teams into the pyramid.

As for the final point the younger players - 17 or so, will only play of they're at the standard deemed good enough. They'd only be playing reserve football if good enough as it is anyway. Those that are close enough to the first-team squad play against 25 year-old lower league players as it is. What better than for Donacien,  Johnson, Bennett, Grealish (of last season) to play still for Aston Villa at Notts County, Tranmere, Chesterfield etc and develop within their own environment The current loan system allows them to 'grow-up' away from Villa PArk but they're still thrown into the succeed or fail culture as dictated by the clubs and their fans, who they go out on loan to.

It's an option that should be considered and not merely thrown away because its simply just been the way we've always done it. See also: break, Winter.

[paul_e]

I think a winter break needs to happen and shouldn't even be a debate, first couple of weeks of January after the 4 games in 10-12 days that generally occurs around christmas and new year.

I'm less sure about the reserves situation, I think I'd rather see the focus being placed on improving coaching standards to start with and then see where we end up, restructuring the league in a way that benefits the bigger clubs at the expense of the small sides may help a little for England but it would do a lot of harm as well.

The other issue is the sky backed obsession with spending more money than ever on exciting big name signings rather than trying to bring through your own talent.  Fans (in general) need to start asking why the clubs are spending a fortune bringing players from abroad when they could use that money to fund coaching and facilities.  The whole approach to football in England needs to change.

[ktvillan]

Did anyone else think Sterling and Sturridge are determined to only pass to each other?

Not so much Sterling, I think he's a smarter player than that, but I thought it was obvious that Sturridge was only ever interested in passing if it was to Sterling.  Sturridge always frustrates me because he frequently makes the wrong choice in possession - has an extra touch, picks the wrong pass, often he just shoots when someone else is better placed.  I'm not sure he's got any footballing brain at all.  I think tonight he only passed when he heard Sterling chirrup for the ball.  (I don't think Sterling shouts for the ball, I think it's too weedy to qualify as a shout, it's more a sort of yelp, like a sparrow might make if you stood on his toe).   

Sturridge had a reputation for being greedy and selfish before joining Liverpool,  where he seemed to improve that aspect of his game.  On Wednesday he reverted to type and there were at least four occasions where he tried to go alone when colleagues, including Sterling a couple of times, were better placed and in space.  Compare this to the Germany team where they always seem to look first to play in a better placed player if possible.  Sturridge wouldn't get near that team.  For me it's another symptom of the reasons we consistently fail at International level - a lack of mental strength and intelligence,  which covers aspects such as self-belief,  confidence, discipline,  tactical nous, decision-making, and composure under pressure.  Hardly any British players have all or even most of those qualities, and it's all too obvious when we get to major tournaments.   

Our coaches are generally poor too and it's laughable that some, including many journalists,  see the main criteria for being England manager as "being English" rather than "being any good".  Then when they get their way theygnash their teeth when we inevitably fail to even qualify for tournaments  like under McLaren.  At least Hodgson has some international/foreign experience, some of it fairly successful,  but he doesn't really have much to work with.   He perhaps does need to show some balls in either dropping Rooney or giving him a good kick up the arse.  As for Milner getting jeered, that's shows he ignorance of the crowd - he's way more effective than the likes of Wilshere and Henderson.