Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on August 24, 2012, 07:47:26 AM
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Available Saturday evening.
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Would it be best just to cancel this now?
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Simply dreadful. Embarrassing.
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Well that smarts. Come on Randy do your spending.
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Randy's got to wake up or fuck off.
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Some positives when we went down to 10 men.
Still completely piss poor though. Get your wallet out Randy, or fuck off.
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Thank God the transfer window is still open, we need better players
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41% possession at home.
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180 minutes into the season and it's a bloody disaster. If it's a marathon, not a sprint, then Villa are Paula Radcliffe just before the Olympics.
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Embarrassing. As an assessment of the squad, Baker slightly changed my mind in the second half he might make it as a centre half. Bannan and Fonz will never make it and should never start for the club again. KEA looked a lot better once Bannan was off. N'Zogbia awful as usual. Concrete Ron will be alright. We need a left back, centre back, centre mid, winger and a striker and all of quality. Get your fucking act together Lerner.
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Randy's stewardship will be defined by what happens in the next week.
If he fails to back the manager with at a minimum of three of four quality signings that will have been three seasons in a row fighting relegation.
Early days, but come on, that squad isn't good enough some of the players are not Premier League standard.
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180 minutes into the season and it's a bloody disaster. If it's a marathon, not a sprint, then Villa are Paula Radcliffe just before the Olympics.
At the moment Villa are what drops out of Paula Radcliffe, just by the kerbside.
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I expect people to disagree but I genuinely think that game could've been much different if Given hadn't buttered his gloves.
KEA looks like he'll do fine in the prem, holman and Weimann looked good when they came on, Vlaar was generally solid, Clark not so much but didn't have the shocker some seem to be suggesting.
N'zogbia did what we're all used to, carreid well at times but had far too little end product, I can't think of a more frustrating player in recent times.
Baker looked decent when he went back to CB, he's definitely not a left back though.
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Positives - KEA looking like he could be a player, Vlaar looks solid. Lowton looks decent and Baker was very good. We scored our first goal.
Negatives - Everything else.
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I can just imagine the manager sitting in a darkened room tonight and thinking "What the hell can I do"
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Pretty damn woeful overall. We showed in the last 20 minutes that we can at least play football when the intensity has gone out of the game. But it could have been 6 or 7 there.
The only positives for me were holman's movement second half, KEA second half and I thought baker looked decent. I'd also hope that's enough to convince that we desperately need a couple of quality players
Bent and cnz were really bad I thought.
Would probably play a first xi v tranmere to try and get some team play going. I reckon
Fuzzy - low ton vlaar baker lichaj - Holman kea delph cnz - bent Weimann
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Lerner needs to get the chequebook out. Right now.
Baker, Weimann, Ron & KEA looked good. Bannan, Clark, Holman & Bent need to do more.
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We look utterly inept in most areas on the pitch. We slightly improved towards the end of the game but the game was over by half time.
If we don't strengthen it's going to be yet another piss poor season.
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We need to spend a lot of cash. The players we have are just no where near good enough. We have a good manager but he can not work miracles.
What we do or more to the point dont do in the last few days of the transfer window, will be crucial as to what division we play football in next season
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Hopefully we are approaching the bottom of the barrel. Either that or we are sitting in the middle of it. It was never going to be easy, and it's really going to hit home to Lambert that we are a long way off being a competitive side in this league. To think only 5 short years ago we were looking every bit as strong as Everton were today. There needs to be some soul searching followed by some spending between now and the 31st.
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Randy out!
Its becoming blatantly obvious that he is just giving us fans what we want without spending any money. We wanted Eck out, he went, We wanted Lambert, he got him, We want Lambert to be backed financially.....? If he doesnt back him next week and we have to face the rest of the season with this squad we will be relegated, there is no arguement! Also, if he doesnt back him next week, its obvious he doesnt really care about Aston Villa!
Put up the cash, Or fuck off far away from OUR club!
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Discussion pointless. We need 3 or 4 decent players just to keep us up and ensure we are better than 3 other teams. That is the reality of it, even this early in the season. Utterly depressing, I could lose all interest quite easily..
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End of the day you can go on and on about balancing books but I tell you what that will be a fuck load harder if we go down ..and we will with that team
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Well I expected to loose so... I think the early goal killed us and then Given’s fuck up compounded things. If you’re two down in a game that a draw would have been a good result then it’s pretty much all over.
Early days but the signs are not good. I was confident that this squad would not see us relegated but based on the first two games it would be too big a risk to continue with just these player so Randy will have to find some more cash.
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Terrible.
If anyone was in any doubt of the need to strengthen the squad and didn't see that, they should watch that playback of that match on Sky tonight.
Moyes has put together a good squad and side over years, and Everton look better than I've seen them for a while, but we made it so very easy for them. The first half was as embarassing to watch as anything last season. It was just dire, we didn't string two passes together, and 0-3 flattered us.
Slight improvement the last ten minutes or so, but Everton had taken their foot off the gas, and it was all much too late.
Given gave another hint it might be Guzan time soon. Vlaar looked ok. Clark looked poor. Lowton did ok. Baker was our best performer, I thought.
The entire front six looked piss poor. N'Zogbia looks more and more like a waste of money, Bannan spent his time playing 60 yard passes to nobody, KEA looked withdrawn and overawed, and Herd looked like a passenger. Bent spent the game in a different post code again, and Delfouneso contributed absolutely nothing.
Early days yet, but i fear Lambert has a huge job on his hands. Our squad is made up of coasting established pros who don't seem to care too much, young kids who (for the main part) have failed to show anything like the promise we thought they would, and players who just are not good enough.
If Lerner thinks he doesn't need to spend, he's kidding himself.
A few tiny positives. Weimann looked lively and was unlucky not to score, KEA came into the match more and scored a belter, Baker looks more and more promising, and that's it.
None of the possession football we saw last week, it was a brutal reminder of just how poor we are.
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All the pre season optimism evaporates. think Lambert will bin Bannan, Given, fonz and Charles now which needs to happen. reinforcements needed urgently
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I think it's quite clear that El-Ahmadi massively improved when Bannan came off. So I think Bannan was just in his way.
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C'mon...we won that 1-0 in the second half with 10 men!!!
First half didnt count cos I had my fingers crossed
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Only going to be one winner with the two teams on show. Very, very weak first team. The only plus I can take is that Lambert can spot talent.
No way in the world can he address all the problems in a week.
I'd say we are in a little bit of trouble.
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We were totally outplayed in midfield. Everton passed the ball better, worked harder, found space and closed down better than we did.
Howler (or two) from Given aside, the back four definitely looks a lot better than last year. Baker alongside Vlaar with Lichaj on the left looks the best combination to me.
Baker played well throughout. It's pushing it to expect so many ex academy players to form a good PL team, but there are definitely some that are worth persevering with.
We probably do has issues to resolve up front, but the priority has to be sorting out a decent midfield.
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Players in. Simple as that. I fear Lambert has left himself to much to do in the market with too little time left.
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Ouch.
I hope PL has a very busy week. He needs to be backed and backed well. As it stands we are simply not good enough.
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End of the day you can go on and on about balancing books but I tell you what that will be a fuck load harder if we go down ..and we will with that team
Bang on - Lerner needs to back him properly this week or put the club up for sale
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Everton had far too much time to move the ball.....so sorry but unless there are any better on offer perhaps it's time for NRC to come on down
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Yes this will definitely be a wake up call for lambert. I don't think Clark had a shocker. Which of the goals were his fault? It was relentless pressure and no protection from midfield
But I don't mind the thought of baker playing there at the moment. He looks more of a 'defender'
Hate to say it but I think lambert got his team badly wrong today. I suspect everton would have won comfortably anyway but delph and Weimann would have been better than bannan or fonz perhaps. Holman looked a threat too
Early days yet though. Didn't Norwich have about 2 points after 5 games last season?
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I agree with most of the people here in that Vlaar, Baker, Karim, Weimann and Holman all looked pretty promising today. However, with Bannan clearly being a weak link in the midfield (especially against an opposition like Everton, never expected to throw our littlest midfield in on a day like today) and Charles N'Zogbia being the most inefficient player I have ever witnessed in my life, its pretty clear that we need to get some fresh faces in.
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Bent and Weimann can score goals. The defense is alright. There's a gaping hole where the midfield should be.
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Yes this will definitely be a wake up call for lambert. I don't think Clark had a shocker. Which of the goals were his fault? It was relentless pressure and no protection from midfield
But I don't mind the thought of baker playing there at the moment. He looks more of a 'defender'
Hate to say it but I think lambert got his team badly wrong today. I suspect everton would have won comfortably anyway but delph and Weimann would have been better than bannan or fonz perhaps. Holman looked a threat too
Early days yet though. Didn't Norwich have about 2 points after 5 games last season?
We wont get 2 points all season on that performance!
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Lerner needs to get the chequebook out. Right now.
Baker, Weimann, Ron & KEA looked good. Bannan, Clark, Holman & Bent need to do more.
Agree with that. We know they all can do more as well, especially Bent, they need to pull it out.
For a couple of players, though, I think the party has to be close to over. Passing the ball to N'Zogbia is essentially the same as giving the ball away, and Given is continuing to show signs of rapid deterioration. A lot of changes next week I think, hopefully with new signings.
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On a positive note when Weimann came on alot more clicked. Really needs to start. Baker . Lichaj did very well at left back when he came on.
Given - 4 - Awful first half didn't command his box well at all, was at fault for the 2nd goal (Euro repeat) made a few ok save's in the second half (Guzan in Tuesday I hope)
Lowton - 5- isn't up to speed of the preimer league can't defend as well as he can attack let alot of cross in. Could of given a Penalty kick away.
Vlaar - 5- had a awful game wasn't up to speed although he defended set pieces very well.
Clark - 5- very average and probably could avoided getting sent off.
Baker - 7- did extremely well once he moved to centre back won every header he went for. Question were he can play without out any cover as leftback
Herd 5 - Average tackled well but no threat going forward he plays alot better in the centre.
N'Zogbia - 5 - glimpse of class but not enough and was out of game in parts.
Bannan - 4 - tried extravagant passes which didn't come off game the ball away far to much.
El Ahmadi - 5/6 - average gave away alot of free kicks throughout the game. Great strike for the goal though.
Herd 5 - Average tackled well but no threat going forward he plays alot better in the centre.
Delfouneso 5 - Didn't do that badly but didn't do anything special either unlucky to go off before Bannan.
Bent - 5 - Had a few chances but didn't take any of them overall a poor performance but lacked the service.
Subs
Holman - 6 - got better as the game went on got in great positions
Lichaj - 7 - Didn't do a foot wrong and covered for Vaar at times.
Weimann - 8 - Did extremely well creating opportunities and creating space, gave the team a huge lift. Seems to partner Bent reasonable well, needs to improve slightly on his finishing. Unlucky not to score.
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Don't have much to say about the match but I'll say all I have to right now about now. So here it is...
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On a positive note when Weimann came on alot more clicked. Really needs to start. Baker . Lichaj did very well at left back when he came on.
Given - 5 - Awful first half didn't command his box well at all, was at fault for the 2nd goal (Euro repeat)
Lowton - 5- isn't up to speed of the preimer league can't defend as well as he can attack let alot of cross in. Could of given a Penalty kick away.
Vaar - 5- had a awful game wasn't up to speed although he defended set - pieces very well.
Clark - 5- very average and probably could avoided getting sent off.
Baker - 7- did extremely well once he moved to centre back won every header he went for. Question were he can play without out any cover as leftback
Herd 5 - Average tackled well but no threat going forward he plays alot better in the centre.
N'Zogbia - 5 - glimpse of class but not enough and was out of game in parts.
Bannan - 4 - tried extravagant passes which didn't come off game the ball away far to much.
El Ahmadi - 5/6 - average gave away alot of free kicks throughout the game. Great strike for the goal though.
Herd 5 - Average tackled well but no threat going forward he plays alot better in the centre.
Delfouneso 5 - Didn't do that badly but didn't do anything special either unlucky to go off before Bannan.
Bent - 5 - Had a few chances but didn't take any of them overall a poor performance but lacked the service.
Subs
Holman - 6 - got better as the game went on got in great positions
Lichaj - 7 - Didn't do a foot wrong and covered for Vaar at times.
Weimann - 8 - Did extremely well creating opportunities and creating space, gave the team a huge lift. Seems to partner Bent reasonable well, needs to improve slightly on his finishing. Unlucky not to score.
I'm sorry you can't give a goalkeeper 5 when he commits one of the worst goalkeeping errors ever. Given gets 1, and Vlaar wasn't that bad.
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Yes this will definitely be a wake up call for lambert. I don't think Clark had a shocker. Which of the goals were his fault? It was relentless pressure and no protection from midfield
The 3rd goal was his fault. Watch the replay, simple bit of movement from Jelavic and Clark is just stood ball watching. And he got sent off because he switched off again. I have long not been sure of Clark as a centre back, I just don't trust us to keep a clean sheet when he plays. I think he is a very decent footballer but I am not sure where he would slot in at the moment with his complete lack of pace.
I think Bannan is getting a slightly rough deal on here but he like all are youngsters just have very little experience of winning. I would like to see the stats for some of them in terms of win, losses and draws - to me they look like they are just happy to be playing. There is no winning instinct amongst them.
We are desperately one paced and lacking leadership. There was a short corner in the 2nd half where we made the amateur error of not sending a second man out, allowing them to walk the ball into our box. I watched afterwards and all the players just turned and walked off. Someone should be getting a bollocking for that but there was no sign of it.
The worrying thing is that it does not look like problems which management and coaching can fix. It's the basics like controlling the ball, following a man which isn't there. We don't look like a side who simply needs to get used to a new system. We look like a side who needs to get used to playing football.
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You swayed me down to 4. Vlaar could of done alot better for the first goal.
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It all changed after KEA scored that goal. We were more aggressive, we more making runs, we were taking on players, turning players. It was like watching a different team out there. The full-backs were getting forward, Weimann was finding space in behind and KEA was roaming through the centre of the park finding forward passes. This was all at 10 men too.
We just need that mentality that we had in the final 15 minutes to be the same for the entire of the match. We actually hounded Everton into giving us the ball and because we took them on, we started to break them down. Before that though we were like frightened sheep and only passed sideways or backwards and just let them walk all over us. We can't have that mentality going into a Premier League match.
In terms of players, Baker needs to go at CB. Guzan needs to start in goal. Weimann, Holman and Delph should be replacing Fonz, N'Zogbia and Bannan. Lichaj or a new player has to go at LB. Do that and get us going forward and we shall have no worries about relegation.
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It all changed after KEA scored that goal. We were more aggressive, we more making runs, we were taking on players, turning players. It was like watching a different team out there. The full-backs were getting forward, Weimann was finding space in behind and KEA was roaming through the centre of the park finding forward passes. This was all at 10 men too.
Everton were coasting by that point.
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Yes this will definitely be a wake up call for lambert. I don't think Clark had a shocker. Which of the goals were his fault? It was relentless pressure and no protection from midfield
The 3rd goal was his fault. Watch the replay, simple bit of movement from Jelavic and Clark is just stood ball watching. And he got sent off because he switched off again. I have long not been sure of Clark as a centre back, I just don't trust us to keep a clean sheet when he plays. I think he is a very decent footballer but I am not sure where he would slot in at the moment with his complete lack of pace.
I think Bannan is getting a slightly rough deal on here but he like all are youngsters just have very little experience of winning. I would like to see the stats for some of them in terms of win, losses and draws - to me they look like they are just happy to be playing. There is no winning instinct amongst them.
We are desperately one paced and lacking leadership. There was a short corner in the 2nd half where we made the amateur error of not sending a second man out, allowing them to walk the ball into our box. I watched afterwards and all the players just turned and walked off. Someone should be getting a bollocking for that but there was no sign of it.
The worrying thing is that it does not look like problems which management and coaching can fix. It's the basics like controlling the ball, following a man which isn't there. We don't look like a side who simply needs to get used to a new system. We look like a side who needs to get used to playing football.
I agree with this. However, I think Delph should really have been starting today, and going two up front against Everton's midfield with Bannan and El Ahmadi as our only central presence was pretty suicidal.
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Yes this will definitely be a wake up call for lambert. I don't think Clark had a shocker. Which of the goals were his fault? It was relentless pressure and no protection from midfield
The 3rd goal was his fault. Watch the replay, simple bit of movement from Jelavic and Clark is just stood ball watching. And he got sent off because he switched off again. I have long not been sure of Clark as a centre back, I just don't trust us to keep a clean sheet when he plays. I think he is a very decent footballer but I am not sure where he would slot in at the moment with his complete lack of pace.
I think Bannan is getting a slightly rough deal on here but he like all are youngsters just have very little experience of winning. I would like to see the stats for some of them in terms of win, losses and draws - to me they look like they are just happy to be playing. There is no winning instinct amongst them.
We are desperately one paced and lacking leadership. There was a short corner in the 2nd half where we made the amateur error of not sending a second man out, allowing them to walk the ball into our box. I watched afterwards and all the players just turned and walked off. Someone should be getting a bollocking for that but there was no sign of it.
The worrying thing is that it does not look like problems which management and coaching can fix. It's the basics like controlling the ball, following a man which isn't there. We don't look like a side who simply needs to get used to a new system. We look like a side who needs to get used to playing football.
Barry Bannan's 22 for gods sake. He ceased being a youngster around 19. Hes not good enough!
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Baker - 7- did extremely well once he moved to centre back won every header he went for. Question were he can play without out any cover as leftback
Answer.....we've got one. At a time when it's blatantly clear we are struggling for experience PL is letting him mind the kids......what's left of them that is as they mostly play for the first team.
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Lerner seems to me to be happy just to be in the premier league- stand still and others pass you, stoke , Sunderland and Newcastle are now showing more ambition than us, we are lacking in quality and in numbers and need to see 3 or 4 decent experienced players or we will be in real trouble- lambert needs backing with decent cash and now!
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Woeful, clueless, lethargic first half, better second when Everton took the foot off the gas and a change personnel.
The mitigating factor last week was that at least we had a good amount of possession and passed the ball around. We don't even have that straw to clutch at this week.
Of the youngsters, Baker and Weimann look decent and I think will make the grade. Bannan and Delfounso have had enough chances to shine and never really hinted they will make it.
Never really seen what people see in Clark, massively over rated by some and nowhere near a decent PL CB for me - lacks pace, strength and concentration. He's even worse as a LB so I really hope he doesn't end up there.
I like Lichaj if nothing else for his energy and willingness to get stuck in and get forward. Lowton looks okay.
In the end unlucky not to get a second, but by rights we could have been five or six down by the time we scored. It's painfully obvious investment is needed.
It' all very well saying it will take time for Lambert's methods to kick in but time is one luxury you don't have in the PL
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Everton were shit when Moyes first went there and look at them now. We've got PL, clearly he's a good manager, so let's just wait and see.
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Hopefully we are approaching the bottom of the barrel. Either that or we are sitting in the middle of it. It was never going to be easy, and it's really going to hit home to Lambert that we are a long way off being a competitive side in this league. To think only 5 short years ago we were looking every bit as strong as Everton were today. There needs to be some soul searching followed by some spending between now and the 31st.
I'm not sure we ever passed the ball as crisply as everton did today. Moyes has done an excellent job
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Is the team better or worse than the one that Dolly had just before Lerner took over?
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Giving Paul Lambert the job without any finances is like asking a brain surgeon to use a wooden spoon.
Time to shit, or get off the pot Randy.
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If any further confirmation were needed the Fonz and Bannan will never make Premier League footballers. The midfield is a serious concern, we desperately need new bodies there and no more untested foreign players, we need some battle hardened premier league players to keep us in the division.
If I requires spending £30m and bigger wages so be it. I really fear for us otherwise.
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Holloway for manager.
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Hopefully we are approaching the bottom of the barrel. Either that or we are sitting in the middle of it. It was never going to be easy, and it's really going to hit home to Lambert that we are a long way off being a competitive side in this league. To think only 5 short years ago we were looking every bit as strong as Everton were today. There needs to be some soul searching followed by some spending between now and the 31st.
I'm not sure we ever passed the ball as crisply as everton did today. Moyes has done an excellent job
No, but then MON was never an advocate of that. But when you think back to the overall strength of our side and the experience and quality of youth then you can see how far we've fallen. Just take a look at that side that won 3-2 at their place, or even the sides with Milner in it, and it it makes for worrying reading. We are a long way from that. I trust Lambert because I'm sure he has a visions and that he has a plan. But he needs to spend whatever money the club has given him because he can't go all Wenger right now. And even after that the club need to back him should he need a bit more.
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It all changed after KEA scored that goal. We were more aggressive, we more making runs, we were taking on players, turning players. It was like watching a different team out there. The full-backs were getting forward, Weimann was finding space in behind and KEA was roaming through the centre of the park finding forward passes. This was all at 10 men too.
We just need that mentality that we had in the final 15 minutes to be the same for the entire of the match. We actually hounded Everton into giving us the ball and because we took them on, we started to break them down. Before that though we were like frightened sheep and only passed sideways or backwards and just let them walk all over us. We can't have that mentality going into a Premier League match.
In terms of players, Baker needs to go at CB. Guzan needs to start in goal. Weimann, Holman and Delph should be replacing Fonz, N'Zogbia and Bannan. Lichaj or a new player has to go at LB. Do that and get us going forward and we shall have no worries about relegation.
Although I think we were looking 100% more cohesive after 60 minutes when they'd spurned a couple of chances, I think that it was obvious they'd taken their foot off the pedal. It said more about Everton as a side who are decent but coasted for a good half hour there. Still I liked the subs we had on.
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I don't think Clark had a shocker. Which of the goals were his fault?
Third goal he was ball watching as Jelavic lost him with the minimum of movement. Then he fell asleep again for the sending off incident.
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Is the team better or worse than the one that Dolly had just before Lerner took over?
I asked a similar question on the match thread but nobody answered. Is the club in a better position, sometimes I wonder.
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If any further confirmation were needed the Fonz and Bannan will never make Premier League footballers. The midfield is a serious concern, we desperately need new bodies there and no more untested foreign players, we need some battle hardened premier league players to keep us in the division.
NRC and one other for midfield, plus LB. Forwards are not now a priority. We are now in the market for players just to keep is in the League
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Any idea what happened to Ireland...injured or dropped from the squad completely?
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We need to pray that Vlaar stays fit all season
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Is the team better or worse than the one that Dolly had just before Lerner took over?
I asked a similar question on the match thread but nobody answered. Is the club in a better position, sometimes I wonder.
We had a much better first XI then. The problem was lack of depth, but again probably not as bad as now.
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Is the team better or worse than the one that Dolly had just before Lerner took over?
I asked a similar question on the match thread but nobody answered. Is the club in a better position, sometimes I wonder.
Much worse. We had Laursen, Bouma, Barry, Cahill and Mellberg in that team. Nobody even close to that quality now.
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I'd have NRC in, I'd make him Captain while I was at it. I don't buy into this "not good enough" business. He's exactly what we need in there next to KEA. I'd reinstate Warnock to the first team. I'd be looking for a new winger who will attack players and get the ball into the box. And maybe one more midfielder.
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Be interesting to see Lambert's post match comments. I'm hoping he's brutally honest.
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Lerner wake up or fuck off. Delfuenso and Bannan are championship players at best. NZogbia play up front or fuck off. I dearly hope Lambert is learning about how poor we are all over the pitch. Oh and I thought Given was giving Villa 100% or was he checking the length of his contract for the 2nd goal.
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Blimey. I was wondering how long before NRC's name came up.
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Is the team better or worse than the one that Dolly had just before Lerner took over?
I asked a similar question on the match thread but nobody answered. Is the club in a better position, sometimes I wonder.
Much worse. We had Laursen, Bouma, Barry, Cahill and Mellberg in that team. Nobody even close to that quality now.
Plus Delaney, Angel and (just about) Agbonlahor.
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It all changed after KEA scored that goal. We were more aggressive, we more making runs, we were taking on players, turning players. It was like watching a different team out there. The full-backs were getting forward, Weimann was finding space in behind and KEA was roaming through the centre of the park finding forward passes. This was all at 10 men too.
We just need that mentality that we had in the final 15 minutes to be the same for the entire of the match. We actually hounded Everton into giving us the ball and because we took them on, we started to break them down. Before that though we were like frightened sheep and only passed sideways or backwards and just let them walk all over us. We can't have that mentality going into a Premier League match.
In terms of players, Baker needs to go at CB. Guzan needs to start in goal. Weimann, Holman and Delph should be replacing Fonz, N'Zogbia and Bannan. Lichaj or a new player has to go at LB. Do that and get us going forward and we shall have no worries about relegation.
Bloody good post, agree with all but I noticed in the match thread you picked up on one very important point, Villa players running with the ball, something we see far too little of. It's all well and good passing it about but it doesn't put the opposition under any real pressure. On the rare occasion we put Everton on the back foot the space opened up. We need to do more of that.
Credit should also be given to Everton who are playing with both confidence and arrogance, such is their belief in their own individual and collective ability, something we seriously lack but whilst Lambert is still judging what he's got, it's not going to happen overnight.
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Is the team better or worse than the one that Dolly had just before Lerner took over?
I asked a similar question on the match thread but nobody answered. Is the club in a better position, sometimes I wonder.
Much worse. We had Laursen, Bouma, Barry, Cahill and Mellberg in that team. Nobody even close to that quality now.
Plus Delaney, Angel and (just about) Agbonlahor.
Oh, and Milner.
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Is the team better or worse than the one that Dolly had just before Lerner took over?
I asked a similar question on the match thread but nobody answered. Is the club in a better position, sometimes I wonder.
Much worse. We had Laursen, Bouma, Barry, Cahill and Mellberg in that team. Nobody even close to that quality now.
Plus Delaney, Angel and (just about) Agbonlahor.
Oh, and Milner.
Makes you wonder then.
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Why is this Randy's fault? Some posters on here spit the dummy more often than a toddler on Boxing Day. Chin up its only game 2.
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Blimey. I was wondering how long before NRC's name came up.
He may not want to play there but I'd think about moving Clark back to a defensive midfielder. It's certainly his best position.
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Why is this Randy's fault? Some posters on here spit the dummy more often than a toddler on Boxing Day. Chin up its only game 2.
Trouble is, the window slams shut in a few days and we will be stuck with this squad until January at least by which time we could be right in the mire. That's why the masses are not happy. Still, we've got new tv screens and flames as we walk out so it's not all bad.
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Why is this Randy's fault? Some posters on here spit the dummy more often than a toddler on Boxing Day. Chin up its only game 2.
Oh yeah I forgot. In Randy we trust. Randy the saviour. We love you Randy we do. We love you Randy we do. USA. USA. USA.
Please.
It's time some posters on here woke up and smelt the coffee.
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Why is this Randy's fault? Some posters on here spit the dummy more often than a toddler on Boxing Day. Chin up its only game 2.
Because he's a c***.
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Why is this Randy's fault? Some posters on here spit the dummy more often than a toddler on Boxing Day. Chin up its only game 2.
Oh yeah I forgot. In Randy we trust. Randy the saviour. We love you Randy we do. We love you Randy we do. USA. USA. USA.
Please.
It's time some posters on here woke up and smelt the coffee.
Hopefully this fukin dreadful performance will wake people up.
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Yes this will definitely be a wake up call for lambert. I don't think Clark had a shocker. Which of the goals were his fault? It was relentless pressure and no protection from midfield
The 3rd goal was his fault. Watch the replay, simple bit of movement from Jelavic and Clark is just stood ball watching. And he got sent off because he switched off again. I have long not been sure of Clark as a centre back, I just don't trust us to keep a clean sheet when he plays. I think he is a very decent footballer but I am not sure where he would slot in at the moment with his complete lack of pace.
I think Bannan is getting a slightly rough deal on here but he like all are youngsters just have very little experience of winning. I would like to see the stats for some of them in terms of win, losses and draws - to me they look like they are just happy to be playing. There is no winning instinct amongst them.
We are desperately one paced and lacking leadership. There was a short corner in the 2nd half where we made the amateur error of not sending a second man out, allowing them to walk the ball into our box. I watched afterwards and all the players just turned and walked off. Someone should be getting a bollocking for that but there was no sign of it.
The worrying thing is that it does not look like problems which management and coaching can fix. It's the basics like controlling the ball, following a man which isn't there. We don't look like a side who simply needs to get used to a new system. We look like a side who needs to get to playing football.
Barry Bannan's 22 for gods sake. He ceased being a youngster around 19. Hes not good enough!
22 is still young. He would be in his final year at uni.
I didn't get a chance to watch the game today and I'm not really in the position to say this seeing as I didn't see it for myself but its pretty irrelevant saying what we did when we were 3-0 down. Fair enough if we played the way some are saying from the get go in the second half but looking good with 20+ minutes to go when 3-0 down doesn't hold as much merit because its a completely different game then. I guess you could still take some sort of positives out of it like Lichaj at LB, Baker at CB etc... But like I said at that stage it was all pretty meaningless.
But yea its pretty disappointing overall but I hope Lambert is learning from what's happening and what to do with the team as he gets a better idea what he needs to do. It's a learning curve from him too.
It's 6 days to go until transfer window shuts. I'm not going to get my hopes up tbh but it will be really bad if we don't get in the players we need. I've been saying our midfield looks very thin, today might have been a wake up call. Defense could be strengthened too.
Hey Ho life goes on...
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Hopefully we are approaching the bottom of the barrel. Either that or we are sitting in the middle of it. It was never going to be easy, and it's really going to hit home to Lambert that we are a long way off being a competitive side in this league. To think only 5 short years ago we were looking every bit as strong as Everton were today. There needs to be some soul searching followed by some spending between now and the 31st.
Eh? Five years ago? Two years and three months ago we finished sixth again having only been knocked out of the Champions League race at the start of May. Our fall from grace has been swift to say the least.
The problem is that we only had one way of playing under O'Neill which although flattered us a bit (reliance on set-pieces and counter-attacking) was effective more often than not. Since then we've lost all threat from dead balls, struggle to defend them and don't have the pacy players to kill teams on the counter.
Houllier's change of approach to a more patient passing approach was always going to take a long time and an overhaul of players to implement. I'm still not sure what McLeish's philosophy was and now under Lambert I think he'll try and impose a mixture of Houllier and MON's styles which, understandably, will take time and more to the point, cash.
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Where was Wally I mean Lerner today? At the match?
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It's not hard to tell the story of randy's reign do far though is it?:
- initial excitement, great backing for the manager, if not superstar players
- in hindsight, too much financial control given to the manager, which basically meant unless we got into the champions league we'd be losing buckets of cash
- realised the error of his ways
- poor managerial choice x2
- period of very significant retrenchment as villa try to become "the Ajax of the midlands
" and do it all with homegrown players
- a good manager in now. But the retrenchment continues. I wonder if they thought lambert was ideal because he can do it without any cash
Perhaps lambert will turn it around. But I wouldn't be surprised if he decides within the next month that we're in trouble with this squad and tells the chairman that to his face
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Hopefully we are approaching the bottom of the barrel. Either that or we are sitting in the middle of it. It was never going to be easy, and it's really going to hit home to Lambert that we are a long way off being a competitive side in this league. To think only 5 short years ago we were looking every bit as strong as Everton were today. There needs to be some soul searching followed by some spending between now and the 31st.
Eh? Five years ago? Two years and three months ago we finished sixth again having only been knocked out of the Champions League race at the start of May. Our fall from grace has been swift to say the least.
The problem is that we only had one way of playing under O'Neill which although flattered us a bit (reliance on set-pieces and counter-attacking) was effective more often than not. Since then we've lost all threat from dead balls, struggle to defend them and don't have the pacy players to kill teams on the counter.
Houllier's change of approach to a more patient passing approach was always going to take a long time and an overhaul of players to implement. I'm still not sure what McLeish's philosophy was and now under Lambert I think he'll try and impose a mixture of Houllier and MON's styles which, understandably, will take time and more to the point, cash.
Yes, three years ago is more accurate
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Bannan's killer ball?
Let's face it he hasn't got one.Championship player at best.
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Lots of bad but some causes for optimism. I'm not reaching for the Prozac.
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Why is this Randy's fault? Some posters on here spit the dummy more often than a toddler on Boxing Day. Chin up its only game 2.
Because he's a c***.
Why do you need to use such abusive language to our owner?
Take a chill pill.
Just wait and see if anything happens in the next 6 days.
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Bannan's killer ball?
Let's face it he hasn't got one.Championship player at best.
Not sure about that but he certainly doesn't deserve a starting place.
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Also, the clowns booing the team at half time were far more embarrassing than any element of that performance.
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If signings aren't forthcoming over the next few days I'm convinced that we are in a serious situation. Each season we seem to get worse.
This was the most one sided match we have 'competed' in since the 6-0 at Newcastle the season before last. I can't recall anything as bad as this from last season.
We could have the best manager in football and he would struggle to keep this squad in the PL.
Does anyone honestly think that the match next Sunday is going to be anything other than a complete embarrassment? I'm not even sure about Tranmere.
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You can't wait 60 minutes to start playing.
45 minutes for the first shot on goal.
The lack of movement/options for passes is stunning.
The run N'zog had into the box was crying out for a couple of runners but nothing.
Bannan was OK when he calmed down the "killer-pass" he kept overhitting.
We looked clueless
Good thing Everton slowed down second half or it could have been 6!
I'm a fan so I have no idea but think we may need better players.
I can hear fiiking Savage cackling already...
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Why is this Randy's fault? Some posters on here spit the dummy more often than a toddler on Boxing Day. Chin up its only game 2.
Some posters are being brutally honest. Which side was better in your view? The one on show six years into Randy's ownership or the one before he arrived?
As things stand, we are worse than last year and we have had two seasons fighting relegation. Even in the mid 90s and the early 2000s we never went on such a bad, bad run. So, the questioning of the ownership is valid given that this has been our worst spell since the 1980s.
Oh, and the chestnut about finishing 9th in 2010-11 will be brought up. We weren't safe that season until what, three games to go? Is that called competing?
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Also, the clowns booing the team at half time were far more embarrassing than any element of that performance.
They are entitled to their view. They earn, on average, in two years what one of our players will earn in a week. They are the lifeblood of this club and will be there long after N'Zogbia, Bent, Lambert and Randy have been and gone. I think they are entitled to boo if they aren't happy. It's not like the 1980s when you were cheering on a bunch of lads you could related to who possibly cared as much as you did for the club.
As for NRC, yes, I'd have him back. He was a good Premier League player. And lets not forget, we are a much, much worse side than we were when we had him. As such, a player who was a squad player in those days of being a top 6 outfit should by all logic slot into our side today.
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Today's Lessons for Lambert:
- No more Clark at CB please, he's a liability
- Guzan for Given
- Baker looks good at CB, keep him there
- Bannan and the Fonz are 'last resort' squad options, nothing more
- Get rid of N'Zogbia and find someone who can contribute more (which shouldn't be hard)
I reckon we need at least a LB, winger/forward, central midfielder and striker to be competitive.
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Also, the clowns booing the team at half time were far more embarrassing than any element of that performance.
Why?!! 3-0 down and one shot! I'd say justified.
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Alternatively, we had a lot of young players on the pitch, a new manager and four debutants. It's hardly an endorsement of our fans to be booing them off after a bad 45 minutes. It's hardly getting them thrilled at the prospect of being here. Might as well take this nonsense down if we carry on like that.
(http://www.villatrust.org.uk/wp-content/themes/villatrust.org.uk/images/holte12man.jpg)
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Just back, first 75 mins as bad as anything I saw last season, last 15 more encouraging.
Baker is a centre half and never a left back.
Ron was decent.
KEA was poor until the last 15 and his goal seemed to galvanise him.
Why no Ireland or Delph ? Herd is not a right winger.
Bannan, Fonz, Charlie - very poor.
Bent ok but how are we ever going to give him the chances with such a lack of creativity ?
Weimann decent as was Holman, as least they looked like they were bothered.
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Also, the clowns booing the team at half time were far more embarrassing than any element of that performance.
The people booing were clowns, but they weren't anywhere near as embarassing as that performance, I'm afraid.
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Dear oh Dear..We have 5 days til the transfer deadline closes. We need a team! Not another year of building on what we do not have!
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To be honest I would happily sell Bent and N'Zogbia and spend 25million on 3-4 decent players. For me, the way Lambert likes to play won't suit Bent. We're really struggling to get him in the game. We've got no midfield either, which doesn't help.
Looking at Lamberts Norwich, and Holt was his focal point for 3 years.
I know some have mentioned trying to trade Bent for Carroll and a bit of cash. Maybe if Liverpool are game it'd be worth a go.
For me I'd want a front man who's gonna get into the game a lot more. People go on about Bents movement, but outside 12 yards from goal when he sniffs the possibility of a chance (he's sniffed nothing in two games mind), his movement is poor. Look at Jelavic for a guide on movement. If you don't hand feed Bent he's useless.
A good midfield and decent strike partner and we'd get the best out of him of course, but as things stand he's basically a one man deficit we can't afford.
It looks like we have to sell to buy and in all honesty I'd ship out Bent so we can fund 2-3 good players. Otherwise we're just gonna have a mediocre side with a front man worth 18 million who can't touch the ball and has no interested in trying to get it unless it's served up to him on the 6 yard line. And that's our captain ffs!
The only positives of today are that Lamberts own transfer inputs did look decent. I think given time they'll all do well here. But the squad is so poor at the moment it's a complete joke.
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Carroll for me as well.Lets get him.
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Also, the clowns booing the team at half time were far more embarrassing than any element of that performance.
The people booing were clowns, but they weren't anywhere near as embarassing as that performance, I'm afraid.
The people booing have also seen ONE home win since last November.
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As it stands we're a bottom 3 team.
That usually describes a team who can't score goals or defend very well, well we've seen both in abundance over the last two games.
I think in pretty much every area of the team there's a major weakness.
Said before but I'd rather have Guzan as number one, Given has had his day imo.
I'm all for moving out Hutton and Warnock but please could we have frozen them out when we'd actually signed some decent replacements as all I've seen in these two games are an out of position Baker and Lowton still understandably trying to make the step up.
What's clear is we still have a major weakness at the high ball. I've been guilty of bigging up Clark but he had a shocker today. Vlaar I don't think he's better than Carlos but he'll be o.k enough. Short term I'd keep Dunne until January tbh.
Bannan I just don't see it. Ireland has to start because we saw today the alternatives are worse than he is. The only bright spot of the season so far has been Karim, he looks a tidy enough player to me, could be a good Petrov replacement.
Charles N'Zogbia, where do you start with this bloke, how many times did he just run it out of play?
And finally upfront and the biggest curveball selection I think we've had for a while in the starting 11, where the hell did the idea of Delfeunso starting come from, did Lambert think he'd morphed into Drogba overnight?! Short term we need Gabby back as soon as possible to inject some more pace into the forward line and I think he'll fit in quite well with how Lambert wants to play.
Unimpressed from Walmley.
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But that's hardly many of the players who played today's fault is it?
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At least Lambert now knows what a major task he's got on his hands.
First half was dire but what can you expect when half the team are academy players against an in form team. It's not fair on them.
45 minutes before our first shot at goal! Woeful, and what's the point of continually lobbing the ball up to Darren Bent when he's on the edge of the penalty area all the time! Fat lot he can do there.
N'Zogbia and Fonz are a waste of space and Bannan isn't the answer.
Being a Villa supporter hasn't been much fun for a while now.
Oh well, at least Birmingham are losing.
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It wasn't the fans sitting in the stands letting 3 goals in either. Its about £125 per home per win in the last season and today based on an average season ticket of £500.
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Alternatively, we had a lot of young players on the pitch, a new manager and four debutants. It's hardly an endorsement of our fans to be booing them off after a bad 45 minutes. It's hardly getting them thrilled at the prospect of being here. Might as well take this nonsense down if we carry on like that.
(http://www.villatrust.org.uk/wp-content/themes/villatrust.org.uk/images/holte12man.jpg)
Hmm, a few of the young players have had quite a few chances over a few years to show something now, and have shown very little.
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Everton are a strong team and their first half display was full of confidence. They may regret taking the piss in the second half - if we were playing Chelsea or Manure today they would have kept their foot on the gas and it would have been 6 or 7.
I can take a loss like this if the manager learns something about his squad. Today he will have seen the Bannan, Fonz and Given aren't good enough. We seemed to have a lot more purpose and energy once that Wee Barry had been taken off.
Impressed by all the new players.
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Reasons to be optimistic:
We're trying to pass the ball nowadays.
The new signings looked good, which is promising.
We are looking to improve the squad and I believe we will.
We're shifting some of the 'bad apples.'
Everything that could go wrong today did go wrong - a red card, an early goal, a goalkeeping blunder. Yes, we could have conceded more, but I think we'll actually be just fine. I hate saying this, because it's a massive cliche, but it's another season of transition (hopefully the last for a while) as we are trying to totally change the attitudes of many of the players both on and off the pitch. People can moan all they like, but it's not all bad news.
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To be fair that first half performance was about as bad as it gets on every level, so if people are ever going to boo it's then.
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Hmm, a few of the young players have had quite a few chances over a few years to show something now, and have shown very little.
I agree to an extent. Players like Delfouneso are never going to make it at this level. No shame in that, and also not his fault he got picked. It could also be argued that after graduating into the first team, they haven't exactly had the best mentors.
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I don't seem to recall Bent's movement being a problem when he could make runs knowing Young, Downing and Milner could slide balls in or him. It's a bit harder hen his 'service' is a 50 yard hoof over his head. It's the service, stupid.
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Hmm, a few of the young players have had quite a few chances over a few years to show something now, and have shown very little.
I agree to an extent. Players like Delfouneso are never going to make it at this level. No shame in that, and also not his fault he got picked. It could also be argued that after graduating into the first team, they haven't exactly had the best mentors.
Haven't had the best Mentors is a brilliant point Tom. We have no-one to look up to in the squad. No one prepared to grab the game by the scruff of the neck, go round bollocking people for mistakes. No leaders. That's the main reason I think we're in this position.
Bent isn't a captain. No one in that squad today deserves to be. At 1-0 down today heads went down, I saw no-one going round picking everyone up.
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Aston Villa manager Paul Lambert after his side's 3-1 home defeat to Everton: "I know it's a huge job here. We are trying everything to sort it out. For every negative there's a positive and at least we didn't capitulate.
"Will there be any new signings? We'll have to wait and see what happens over the next few days. It's a really young side and sometimes you need a bit of help."
As Norwich fans warned us, he gives nothing away.
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I'm hoping a home win against Tranmere on Tuesday will boost the confidence of some lads there.
My team for Tuesday...... Guzan (Think Shay is 3 seasons past his best)
Lowton Ron Baker Lichaj
Delph
Ireland El Ahmadi
Holman
Weimann Bent
A good display, coupled with a few goals to send us into the next round then announcements on Thursday and Friday of 4 new signings.... ;)
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PL didn't help himself with that team selection, it was dreadful... so lightweight in midfield, Everton just overran us and it was so easy for them.
That was utterly shocking, at least we found out that some of those players are at best championship players! By the way if Bent does not get any service he does absolutely nothing to help the team.
Pretty depressed and its only the second game of the season!
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Don't understand the criticism of booing at half time.
I was in the Holte end today and even after the early goal, it was all still pro chanting and support.
There's only so much people can take, I defy anyone to say any other prem team wouldn't have been booed off if they were 3-0 down to Everton and being pissed off.
Last season I fully expected it with TSM being in charge and all I've seen this season is more of the same standard really.
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Hmm, a few of the young players have had quite a few chances over a few years to show something now, and have shown very little.
I agree to an extent. Players like Delfouneso are never going to make it at this level. No shame in that, and also not his fault he got picked. It could also be argued that after graduating into the first team, they haven't exactly had the best mentors.
Haven't had the best Mentors is a brilliant point Tom. We have no-one to look up to in the squad. No one prepared to grab the game by the scruff of the neck, go round bollocking people for mistakes. No leaders. That's the main reason I think we're in this position.
Bent isn't a captain. No one in that squad today deserves to be. At 1-0 down today heads went down, I saw no-one going round picking everyone up.
Not to mention the managers. MON was hardly interested in the young players, Houllier's season was marred by disciplinary problems with the older players (each undermining each other) and McLeish spent half his time blaming young players and not helping their confidence at all (and I would be surprised if his training methods helped develop their skills). Maybe they need some time and care under Lambert before we really judge them finally.
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We are lacking any physical presence in midfield or up front.
It was, in most parts, men against boys.
We need experienced premiership players, not a team full of so called promising players who may never be good enough.
Signing players from lower leagues are not what we need now.
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There's a lot of excuses for the younger players here, but to be honest a lot of them have had plenty of time and mentors or not if they were going to make it they would have stepped up by now.
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There's a lot of excuses for the younger players here, but to be honest a lot of them have had plenty of time and mentors or not if they were going to make it they would have stepped up by now.
Some of them, who have had fewer chances, have done quite well - Weimann and Herd. Baker, too, recently.
Others seem to have been around for a fair while now and either not forced their way into contention, or when they have, have disappointed.
Two years ago Bannan and Jonathan Hogg started in the middle for us at home to Man United. Hogg is gone, but since then, has Bannan really shown any sign of decent improvement?
Delfouneso was getting games when O'Neill was here. I've seen absolutely nothing from him that makes me think he's got what it takes. He went on loan, and showed nothing at a lower level.
I don't like writing anyone off, but I think some people just look for excuses wherever to spin it out another year, when we're really just going to have to come to terms with the fact that some of these kids not only don't have what it takes, but they're not actually kids anymore.
The other thing is that the powers that be seem to think that the best course of action for us is to rely - not just use, but rely on - these kids, and only occasionally invest in experienced players, in some kind of forlorn hope that we're going to take the Ajax model.
That's a course of action which is doomed right from the start, for a number of reasons, so god help us.
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There's a lot of excuses for the younger players here, but to be honest a lot of them have had plenty of time and mentors or not if they were going to make it they would have stepped up by now.
Some of them, who have had fewer chances, have done quite well - Weimann and Herd. Baker, too, recently.
Others seem to have been around for a fair while now and either not forced their way into contention, or when they have, have disappointed.
Two years ago Bannan and Jonathan Hogg started in the middle for us at home to Man United. Hogg is gone, but since then, has Bannan really shown any sign of decent improvement?
Delfouneso was getting games when O'Neill was here. I've seen absolutely nothing from him that makes me think he's got what it takes. He went on loan, and showed nothing at a lower level.
I don't like writing anyone off, but I think some people just look for excuses wherever to spin it out another year, when we're really just going to have to come to terms with the fact that some of these kids not only don't have what it takes, but they're not actually kids anymore.
The other thing is that the powers that be seem to think that the best course of action for us is to rely - not just use, but rely on - these kids, and only occasionally invest in experienced players, in some kind of forlorn hope that we're going to take the Ajax model.
That's a course of action which is doomed right from the start, for a number of reasons, so god help us.
Absolutely I'm not saying they are all hopeless, but some of them frankly are never going to make it. Bannan, Delfouneso and probably Albrighton come to mind.
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Terrible.
If anyone was in any doubt of the need to strengthen the squad and didn't see that, they should watch that playback of that match on Sky tonight.
Moyes has put together a good squad and side over years, and Everton look better than I've seen them for a while, but we made it so very easy for them. The first half was as embarassing to watch as anything last season. It was just dire, we didn't string two passes together, and 0-3 flattered us.
Slight improvement the last ten minutes or so, but Everton had taken their foot off the gas, and it was all much too late.
Given gave another hint it might be Guzan time soon. Vlaar looked ok. Clark looked poor. Lowton did ok. Baker was our best performer, I thought.
The entire front six looked piss poor. N'Zogbia looks more and more like a waste of money, Bannan spent his time playing 60 yard passes to nobody, KEA looked withdrawn and overawed, and Herd looked like a passenger. Bent spent the game in a different post code again, and Delfouneso contributed absolutely nothing.
Early days yet, but i fear Lambert has a huge job on his hands. Our squad is made up of coasting established pros who don't seem to care too much, young kids who (for the main part) have failed to show anything like the promise we thought they would, and players who just are not good enough.
If Lerner thinks he doesn't need to spend, he's kidding himself.
A few tiny positives. Weimann looked lively and was unlucky not to score, KEA came into the match more and scored a belter, Baker looks more and more promising, and that's it.
None of the possession football we saw last week, it was a brutal reminder of just how poor we are.
I'd add Lowton on to the list of positives, as good as performance by a Villa right back over the last five years or so, even with Hutton being the previous holder of the position.
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Bannan I'd say has actually gone backwards. He seemed to have some youthful spirit a couple of years ago, but he just looks like he's got no ideas out there. Might have no options either, but his only idea seems to whack one sixty yards and hopefully win a throw. It's a shame.
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I tend to agree. But it is yet again a case o sticking 5 of them in he same side. Remember under dol, Cahill, ridgewell and Davis often struggled yet all ended up making it. I don't think bannan, herd and fonz are likely to make it. But I also don't think we're giving weimann, Clark, baker the best of chances at the moment
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I am past angry, angry is what I felt after the Bolton defeat last season and the Sunderland defeat the season before.
We have flirted with relegation for the last two seasons as our squad quality has gradually weakened and weakened. We have won just one league game out of our last 18.
The overall quality is now at its weakest for many a long year. Everton are a fair to middling standard premier team and the gap between what they showed and what we were capable of was enormous. We didn't even win a corner until the 90th minute. It could easily have been a 5 or 6 goal drubbing today, and I think at times this season we shall suffer some of those.
I am by nature an optimist, but I see absolutely nothing to stop me concluding that the chickens will come home to roost this season and we will be relegated. The ability of our players is simply not good enough to compete at this level any more.
There are very few players in our squad that any other premier clubs would find of much use. They are mostly championship level, and that (with the exception of Bent who will leave mid season when we are probably rooted to the bottom) is where most of them will be next season.
The way I feel at the moment, it wont even be a relegation struggle or last day tears - we will go down Wolves style.
VILLA TILL I DIE.
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I do wonder sometimes about our academy. Are we developing players to excel at that level, or should they be developed for the level they aim to get to? Too many promising players have come through our ranks over the years that have done very little or significance in the game. I'm trying tlo the think of the last one to have really made it with us. Even Barry was an acquisition. We seem to do really well at youth level then the players never quite make it.
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Midfield was weak, why Lambert played Bannan in the middle is beyond me, he got pushed around all game.
Our forward play was absent, Bent is a passenger at the moment and one we can ill afford.
Given was poor and gave away the second goal.
We really need to add to the squad, the way it is at the moment has bottom six written all over it
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Also, the clowns booing the team at half time were far more embarrassing than any element of that performance.
Why clowns? If I'd performed as badly at my job as the team did today and for the previous 12 games I would be joining the dole queue. My season ticket and watching Villa takes a large chunk of my hard earned (which is less in a year than the clowns on the pitch earn in a week) if I want to boo I'll boo, it doesn't make me clown, particularly when I've paid for the right to do it.
Oh and by the way I didn't boo today but object to people dictating how others should express their dissatisfaction.
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Yes this will definitely be a wake up call for lambert. I don't think Clark had a shocker. Which of the goals were his fault? It was relentless pressure and no protection from midfield
The 3rd goal was his fault. Watch the replay, simple bit of movement from Jelavic and Clark is just stood ball watching. And he got sent off because he switched off again. I have long not been sure of Clark as a centre back, I just don't trust us to keep a clean sheet when he plays. I think he is a very decent footballer but I am not sure where he would slot in at the moment with his complete lack of pace.
I think Bannan is getting a slightly rough deal on here but he like all are youngsters just have very little experience of winning. I would like to see the stats for some of them in terms of win, losses and draws - to me they look like they are just happy to be playing. There is no winning instinct amongst them.
We are desperately one paced and lacking leadership. There was a short corner in the 2nd half where we made the amateur error of not sending a second man out, allowing them to walk the ball into our box. I watched afterwards and all the players just turned and walked off. Someone should be getting a bollocking for that but there was no sign of it.
The worrying thing is that it does not look like problems which management and coaching can fix. It's the basics like controlling the ball, following a man which isn't there. We don't look like a side who simply needs to get used to a new system. We look like a side who needs to get used to playing football.
I agree with this. However, I think Delph should really have been starting today, and going two up front against Everton's midfield with Bannan and El Ahmadi as our only central presence was pretty suicidal.
As far as I could see it wasn't 4-4-2 as some bloke was impersonating a footballer on the right touchline called Delfeounso.
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Most of what I was going to say has been said. That was truly awful and shows that we probably have the worst squad in the PL. How many of that squad would get into another PL team? Very few, if any. Fringe 'kids' from last season now form the bulk of the team and they're either not ready yet or simply not good enough - Bannan and Fonz being prime examples. Vlaar and KEA will be fine when they settle into the pace of the prem but other senior players need to look at themselves - N'Zogbia in particular; and Ireland surely has to wonder why he stayed on the bench while inexperience and youth was substituted three times by more inexperience and youth ahead of him.
We carry no real threat - 44 minutes before a shot, and God knows how long before we got our one and only corner. Paul Lambert is a great manager but he needs better players to work with, and I think if we stay up this season he'll really succeed here. But I really fear that if Randy doesn't spend, that squad will be playing in the Championship next season.
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There's a lot of excuses for the younger players here, but to be honest a lot of them have had plenty of time and mentors or not if they were going to make it they would have stepped up by now.
Some of them, who have had fewer chances, have done quite well - Weimann and Herd. Baker, too, recently.
Others seem to have been around for a fair while now and either not forced their way into contention, or when they have, have disappointed.
Two years ago Bannan and Jonathan Hogg started in the middle for us at home to Man United. Hogg is gone, but since then, has Bannan really shown any sign of decent improvement?
Delfouneso was getting games when O'Neill was here. I've seen absolutely nothing from him that makes me think he's got what it takes. He went on loan, and showed nothing at a lower level.
I don't like writing anyone off, but I think some people just look for excuses wherever to spin it out another year, when we're really just going to have to come to terms with the fact that some of these kids not only don't have what it takes, but they're not actually kids anymore.
The other thing is that the powers that be seem to think that the best course of action for us is to rely - not just use, but rely on - these kids, and only occasionally invest in experienced players, in some kind of forlorn hope that we're going to take the Ajax model.
That's a course of action which is doomed right from the start, for a number of reasons, so god help us.
Absolutely I'm not saying they are all hopeless, but some of them frankly are never going to make it. Bannan, Delfouneso and probably Albrighton come to mind.
But Albrighton did make it and for some strange reason regressed backwards. Still hopeful on him. On reflection I think the manager wants to see the players in a EPL game. I doubt if we shall see Bannan/Delfouneso/ CNZ for very much longer. The manager knows now what they can do which is in effect very little. He also will have observed that Nathan Baker could very well make finding a centre back a lesser priority.
Clark as I said this morning will never make a centre back (although Mr Lambert thinks he will) but he could make a top rate defensive midfielder.
One things for sure next week is going to be very interesting on the transfer front. I predict Stephen Ireland will be moved on to bring funds in.
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I been to Villa Park and watched my first match live since end of 2010-11 season. New players, New management, new kit, new season. Same old crap football :( But a decent goal from El Ahmad :)
We were lacking experience, as there is lot of young and foreign players which means not many Premier League experienced players apart from Bent and Given. Everton is very experienced team and got lot of strength and power which is too much for our team.
I didn't enjoy the game at all. The view (North Stand lower front row behind the goal) is not right for me as you can't tell how the game develop that easily. I normally sit in Doug Ellis Upper almost the middle.
But it is nice to see the two Dave today. (Cooper and Woodall)
I don't think I will be coming back to Villa Park in a hurry.
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As far as I could see it wasn't 4-4-2 as some bloke was impersonating a footballer on the right touchline called Delfeounso.
First half we played 4-3-1.
Delfouneso is another Luke Moore. N'Zogbia is another Stephen Ireland.
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You know, I think the one player we could have done with today (still at the club) would have been warnock in midfield. Stop gap of course. But would have stopped everton running through us do readily
I'd rather have a proper ECM of course. Still advocate frimpong or Livermore. Not the experienced heads we'd ideally have but I don't know else there is out there
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Sometimes it takes adversity to start seeing players come to the fore. For me that is Baker. i wanted to start in the centre ahead of Clark and the sending-off should see him start there from next-week. I think that he will show he's the player to play next to Vlaar. he is quite simply head and shoulders above clark. big, built like a centre-half, comfortable on the ball, and a decent enough turn of pace. I'd go as far to say that for all our kids coming he is the only one who looks like he could progress at the higher level of the game.
No more to be said about today. The only positives were Baker, to a lesser extent Vlaar, El-Ahmadi, and Weimann...
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Did delfouneso do any less than bent? I don't think so
I thought it was a 433 initially, but then a 4411 when that wasn't working. We looked best when we played 442 with Holman drifting in from either side. It wasn't hard though!
It is still very early days though. I still think there's a blend of players at the club hat could be turned into a side which will at least be capable in the league,. Wed just improve our chances massively with 2-3 quality players. Not sure a div 1 left back I'd going to make a fundamental difference
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Sometimes it takes adversity to start seeing players come to the fore. For me that is Baker. i wanted to start in the centre ahead of Clark and the sending-off should see him start there from next-week. I think that he will show he's the player to play next to Vlaar. he is quite simply head and shoulders above clark. big, built like a centre-half, comfortable on the ball, and a decent enough turn of pace. I'd go as far to say that for all our kids coming he is the only one who looks like he could progress at the higher level of the game.
No more to be said about today. The only positives were Baker, to a lesser extent Vlaar, El-Ahmadi, and Weimann...
Hasnt Lambert said Clarke is a centre half and will be Vlaars patner
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Baker was never really tipped in the way others have been but you are right, he is looking increasingly like our best prospect.
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If I requires spending £30m and bigger wages so be it. I really fear for us otherwise.
Funny that, I could've sworn that Everton always sell their best players, sign people cheaply and get the best out of them. Tell me when they last spent £30m.
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Sometimes it takes adversity to start seeing players come to the fore. For me that is Baker. i wanted to start in the centre ahead of Clark and the sending-off should see him start there from next-week. I think that he will show he's the player to play next to Vlaar. he is quite simply head and shoulders above clark. big, built like a centre-half, comfortable on the ball, and a decent enough turn of pace. I'd go as far to say that for all our kids coming he is the only one who looks like he could progress at the higher level of the game.
No more to be said about today. The only positives were Baker, to a lesser extent Vlaar, El-Ahmadi, and Weimann...
Hasnt Lambert said Clarke is a centre half and will be Vlaars patner
Maybe so but i've never rated him there. that is by the by though. What has been shown is that Clark has looked out of his depth for the last two weeks. baker hasn't. And after the sending off he got better as the game went on. Sometimes it just takes this little things for the manager to see a player looks better than he thought he would be in training or friendlies.
Anyway, he'll (Baker) have a game or two to prove his worth as the first-choice centre-half.
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I tend to agree that baker looks like he's got more natural centre half attributes than Clark. That doesn't mean Clark won't make it. Too many people say he's got it. He might just take some time to learn the aggression and concentration you need. But I do like the look of baker. Even. If he has some rough edges
I have to say, I'd take Peter whittingham now! Romeu from Chelsea?
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Sometimes it takes adversity to start seeing players come to the fore. For me that is Baker. i wanted to start in the centre ahead of Clark and the sending-off should see him start there from next-week. I think that he will show he's the player to play next to Vlaar. he is quite simply head and shoulders above clark. big, built like a centre-half, comfortable on the ball, and a decent enough turn of pace. I'd go as far to say that for all our kids coming he is the only one who looks
like he could progress at the higher level of the game.
No more to be said about today. The only positives were Baker, to a lesser extent Vlaar, El-Ahmadi, and Weimann...
Hasnt Lambert said Clarke is a centre half and will be Vlaars patner
Who is this Clarke?
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I agree - Baker looked a better player when he moved to CB - made a couple of great last-ditch blocks
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Everton are a fair to middling standard premier team
That being the case, I can only dream of us being a fair to middling standard premier team. From the first two games of the season, that's the best Everton side I've seen in years. Confident, arrogant, supposeful, hardworking, technically good and creative.. I'll have some of that, please and realistically, even with some serious investment, that's as good as it will ever get.
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Saying Everton are a middling Premier League team is very unfair to them. They haven't finished out of the top 8 in years and this current team, injuries permitting, will be challenging for a Champions League spot.
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Sometimes it takes adversity to start seeing players come to the fore. For me that is Baker. i wanted to start in the centre ahead of Clark and the sending-off should see him start there from next-week. I think that he will show he's the player to play next to Vlaar. he is quite simply head and shoulders above clark. big, built like a centre-half, comfortable on the ball, and a decent enough turn of pace. I'd go as far to say that for all our kids coming he is the only one who looks
like he could progress at the higher level of the game.
No more to be said about today. The only positives were Baker, to a lesser extent Vlaar, El-Ahmadi, and Weimann...
Hasnt Lambert said Clarke is a centre half and will be Vlaars patner
Who is this Clarke?
Sorry Clark, the one that had a shocker today
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If I requires spending £30m and bigger wages so be it. I really fear for us otherwise.
Funny that, I could've sworn that Everton always sell their best players, sign people cheaply and get the best out of them. Tell me when they last spent £30m.
Everton have competence and continuity stretching back ten years. Kenwright can have the luxury of being a tight-arse.
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So was our owner at our first home game today?
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Everton would win the Bundesliga if we could graft Goodison to the outskirts of Dusseldorf. In the meantime they're the steady-eddies of the "EPL" that we can only aspire to being.
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OK the negatives are that we lost a match and performance wasn't great. However positives are that Lambert is learning about this squad.
Hopefully he has worked out that N'Zogbia is wasting his time here.
He will know that Given is way past his best.
He has figured out that Delfouenso is not a Premier League player.
He knows that we need a ball winning midfielder to play alongside KEA. May be Herd can do that.
He realises that Bannan is not ready and may never be.
He knows that lot of hard work is ahead.
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Everton would win the Bundesliga if we could graft Goodison to the outskirts of Dusseldorf. In the meantime they're the steady-eddies of the "EPL" that we can only aspire to being.
Fortuna Dusseldorf won in their return to the Bundsliga today.
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I got stick last week for suggesting we were no better than last season, I think today proved it was a correct assumption. Firstly, the team selection was surprising to say the least. I worry about Clark, PL says he's not a midfield player but I cannot see a CB there, and to think some on here think he's future captain material.
The midfield is laughable. Herd on the right? Bannan had the ball but when he's on the half way line with Everton in position then what is the threat? KEA was disappointing, apart from his goal and a 10 min flurry he was anonymous. Our shape is too narrow also and just invited the full backs to get forward, Baines was a winger for most of the 1st half and even Neville got into shooting positions.
It's a very worrying situation that needs rectifying before next week otherwise we are in for a long season. Just imagine you are an outsider looking in, take Given, perhaps Vlaar, Ireland, N'Zogbia and Bent out and no one would have a clue who the rest are and therein lies the problem, a lack of quality!
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I wouldn't be bothered if I never saw Bannan, Fonz,N'Zog, Ireland, Hutton and Warnock in a Villa shirt again, on the plus side I like Baker, Valaar, KEA, but we need at least two experienced centre mids and a winger
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We still sit with a non-existent midfield which makes the defence and forwards look ineffectual. KEA had a good second half and Holman was refreshing with his movement, eagerness to play the ball and pass and move. However Everton looked like Barcelona in the first half because our midfield sat and watched them play football. There was no pressing, no interceptions, no physicality and Everton loved and dominated.
Going forwards N'Zogbia lost the ball, ran down blind alleys, miscontrolled the ball or stayed so wide there was a 60 yard gap to cover to get the ball to him. Bannan was useless launching aimless long ball after long ball. Herd seemed to run around a lot and not achieve anything.
The key to us improving is finding a midfield that has guile, guts and creativity. We are a long long way from that. It will need Lambert to make another couple of smart signings. (I thought KEA and Holman looked good in the 2nd half and are certainly showing shoots of what's to come).
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Everton are a fair to middling standard premier team
That being the case, I can only dream of us being a fair to middling standard premier team. From the first two games of the season, that's the best Everton side I've seen in years. Confident, arrogant, supposeful, hardworking, technically good and creative.. I'll have some of that, please and realistically, even with some serious investment, that's as good as it will ever get.
Sorry by fair to middling, I mean they will be amongst the 10 or 11 teams well short of the Manchesters, Chelsea, Arsenals but better than the teams we can probably expect to be stranded at the bottom (us).
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Everton will finish in the top four the way they are going.
They were splendid.
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I know what we need, a team of better players!
Bannan really isn't PL material, as much as it pains me to say it. Neither is Fonz but we already knew that. Clark back into midfield with KEA would at least make us a little more solid. 4-5-1 would be our best bet with how limited our talent is at the moment. Still early days but that was embarrassing.
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Everton will finish in the top four the way they are going.
They were splendid.
I agree. I think in every position I would take their player over ours, even Phil Neville.
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Never understood the optimism or the stick Savage got for suggesting we are relegation material. We have a woeful squad which has not been strengthened, so what did we expect. I actually think that Randy has worked out that our squad is so poor that it will cost more to comfortably keep us up than let us be relegated.
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I don't like writing anyone off, but I think some people just look for excuses wherever to spin it out another year, when we're really just going to have to come to terms with the fact that some of these kids not only don't have what it takes, but they're not actually kids anymore.
Whilst I agree that some are not good enough and will never get to the level we require, it's in our interest to let Lambert judge them for himself and decide if they're good enough to play his system. Before the season started, almost everybody wanted Clark in alongside Ron, Baker was never even mentioned and would clearly have been on the list of those to let go. Lichaj is another that most would not miss but how many posts did you read calling for Bannan to play in the centre.
There certainly is some talent coming up from the youth/reserves but until the manager decides, having seen them in action, only a fool would get rid of them based on what he sees at Bodymoor Heath. Lambert is no fool and I'm sure after today he's developing a clearer idea of who he can count on from our so-called 'kids' and what areas he needs to go out and buy.
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We need cash to strengthen and a manager to get to know his squad. We were a sack of shot last season, and I didn't expect Lambert to turn us around from day 1, give him time we'll be ok, but money is needed to repair the damage of last season. Everton are a well oiled machine on top of it all, Moyes knows his team inside out.
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Its going to take time and alot of it to get this bunch out of the losing mentality that they've been stuck in for well over a year, we go a goal down and its game over because their heads drop, Lambert is most definately the man to take us forward but theres going to be a few of these types of pastings along the way..... I remember Everton going through a transition not long after Moyes arriving and getting trounced 0-4 at home to Bolton, we are now were they were back then. Its going to take alot of patience but to many of our supporters expect instant results.
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Its going to take time and alot of it to get this bunch out of the losing mentality that they've been stuck in for well over a year, we go a goal down and its game over because their heads drop, Lambert is most definately the man to take us forward but theres going to be a few of these types of pastings along the way..... I remember Everton going through a transition not long after Moyes arriving and getting trounced 0-4 at home to Bolton, we are now were they were back then. Its going to take alot of patience but to many of our supporters expect instant results.
Not me. I expect us to get relegated.
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Its going to take time and alot of it to get this bunch out of the losing mentality that they've been stuck in for well over a year, we go a goal down and its game over because their heads drop, Lambert is most definately the man to take us forward but theres going to be a few of these types of pastings along the way..... I remember Everton going through a transition not long after Moyes arriving and getting trounced 0-4 at home to Bolton, we are now were they were back then. Its going to take alot of patience but to many of our supporters expect instant results.
Not me. I expect us to get relegated.
It's a long season...
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I can just imagine the manager sitting in a darkened room tonight and thinking "What the hell can I do"
Or thinking "Why the hell did I say yes?"
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I tend to agree. But it is yet again a case o sticking 5 of them in he same side. Remember under dol, Cahill, ridgewell and Davis often struggled yet all ended up making it. I don't think bannan, herd and fonz are likely to make it. But I also don't think we're giving weimann, Clark, baker the best of chances at the moment
That's a good point actually.
In fairness, 90% on here knew selling Cahill was a monumental mistake, he just had "it" as a centre half but was still learning the game. Centre half has been a problem area ever since Laursen couldn't play anymore save for a freak year in 09/10.
Davis has started off brightly at Saints and Ridgewell has matured into a solid enough premier league left back, first at SHA and continuing at WBA.
Ridgewell certainly divided opinion when he first came through playing central defence, Clark will probably do the same this season, I'd say defence is probably the area where it takes a young player longer to mature compared to other areas of the pitch.
Clearly the likes of Bannan and Fonz aren't good enough for this level, I still hold out hope for Albrighton as even last season he still had a run of games over xmas/new year where he played well so I do hold out hope he can still be revived under Lambert.
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I can just imagine the manager sitting in a darkened room tonight and thinking "What the hell can I do"
Or fucking hell Bannan and Delfeunso are shit why did I start them. Oh and Nzogbia fucking fucking hell he cost £10m pounds sterling.
Or thinking "Why the hell did I say yes?"
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Just got home from the game. Agree with pretty much everything which has gone before on this thread. I fully intend to stick by Lambert through thick and thin, I have had enough of managers being brought in and being shipped out at great expense but I would fault him for the inclusion of Fonz and N'Zogbia in the starting line up. Fonz deserves to be found a club in the lower leagues where he can earn a decent living. I do not care what happens to N'Zogbia so long as he is not in a Villa shirt.
Shay Given has brought his sloppiness from the Euros back to the club which pays his substantial wages and I would bench him for enough games as it takes to make him shape up and get out of the comfort zone he nestles in.
They came out in the second half like a team which had had the mother of all bollockings which was richly deserved. Paul Lambert must now apply the same strength of character to his meeting with the board next week to fund the buying of better quality players.
Playing the passing game is all very well and we know it is the best way to achieve success at the highest level but if you have players who are technically not good enough to play perfectly directed, perfectly paced, perfectly timed and perfectly weighted passes to team mates moving into positions to receive those perfect passes you are better off playing direct, muscular, physically dominant football. You must also have players who can understand what the manager is telling them and they must have the willingness to do it.
The only plus for me today was that the players Lambert has brought in look better quality than the collection of misfits TSM left behind.
In conclusion I also believe that not only is Bent a luxury we cannot afford when we are under the cosh as we were all day today he is a useless captain. Strikers never make good captains. Never once did I see him rousting a player or encouraging a player and when we got a constant stream of very debatable refereeing decisions go against us I never saw him approach the referee and legitimately but forcefully request that a greater degree of even handedness might be in order. He is another one nestling in the comfort zone with Given and needs a major kick up the arse not the predictable VIP treatment he gets.
Paul Lambert has learned more about the players at his disposal from the two games we have played than he would from twenty friendlies.
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Players in. Simple as that. I fear Lambert has left himself to much to do in the market with too little time left.
You must read between the lines here - he is hamstrung by the budget restrictions he has been given. My mate for example was telling me Lowton was a waste of £3m when we could have found someone else half decent for that amount - what he doesnt factor in of course is this obsession with wage cutting. When set against that sort of transfer policy, you are going to get Matt Lowton - young, but essentially a League 1 player thrust suddenly into the limelight.
I was there today and it was truly dreadful for 80 minutes. It felt like we were the away team for most of it. I thought the starting line up was a bad mistake with the midfield far too lightweight and without craft against a streetwise, established good side. Ireland and Holman should have started, Baker should have started at Centre Half with Clark at left back would have given it more balance.
I have been saying for a while that Given needs to be taken out and I thought he was generally poor (one decent save at the start of the 2nd excepted) throughout.
Ron Vlaar is going to be very good alongside a mobile partner - maybe someone like Shawcross from Stoke.
As for the atmosphere, it was mostly awful, and you can tell when it is bad down at Villa when fans start fighting with each other in the Holte as is what I witnessed towards the end. It felt eerily like Norwich at home in 1986.
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Given - at fault for the 2nd goal and possibly the first. Still has 4 years on his contract - worrying.
Lowton - understandably struggled to cope with Pienarr and Baines on his own, but othwise OK.
Baker - have been hugely impressed with him at centre half. Got on the end of everything. Not a left back.
Clarke - nice footballer but needs to remember he's a centre half.
Vlar - good debut, not helped by those around him.
Herd - didn't look fit, limited & should not a be anywhere near a first choice
KEA - best Villa player by some distance
N'Zogbia - talented but a lost cause
Bannan - lightweight, can't play as a 2nd midfielder, another lost cause
Bent - a luxury this team can't afford. Gets no service.
Delfouneso - lost heart, has done nothing in the past 2 years to warrant still being at the club.
Lichaj - better left back than Baker
Holman - promising, but another light weight
Weiiman - OK as a late option, not a first choice
Lambert - got the formation / team wrong today. Will now know the size of his task. Needs Lerner's backing NOW.
Easy to over react after a performance like that but we were second best all over the park.
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I have to be honest in saying Everton tore us a new arsehole for 65 minutes - I felt we were lucky it was only three. It was embarrassing at times.
The lack of quality service to Darren Bent is just laughable. Wigan clearly saw us coming when we paid up £10m for CNZ - Too many average performances today by players who (and I was fairtly close to the pitch) looked lacking in any confidence at all. Herd looked like he was running in mud and Bannen and esp Fonz just ain't up to the job.
Everton looked strong and well organised but I didn't think they'd beat us like that! Like many have said before, we buy, and buy well or we're in for another tough 9 months.
I'm a bit surprised at the criticism of the fans - I felt we stuck with them (under TSM that place would have been poisonous at 0-3 down) - Yes there was booing - I'm sure most teams who were 3-0 down and getting spanked at home would get the same reaction.
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Found myself thinking "what would Robbie Keane do from this position?" every time the ball was entering the final third...
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It's a long season...
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It will feel very, very long I fear...
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Finally home,. glad I went for a drink after that!
Pretty woeful it has to be said, if Everton had got 7 or 8 we couldn't complain. Having our first shot in first half injury time is embarrassing. Bizarrely we looked better when down to 10 men. Although after about 65-70 minutes Everton seemed to ease up a bit and even then could have scored a few more. Could be a long season.
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Just got back, my pennys worth.
Given.........Gone, at fault for the 1st 2 goals, probably should have done better on the 3rd.£60k per week, not worth it.
Lowton....Ok, not too bad, would'nt have got in the team 3 years ago, now seems to be the kind of player we are buying.Looks ok, not slow, not bad on the ball, had a reasonable game against Pienaar.
Vlaar..........steady, looks a good buy for £3m imho, probably should have closed the shot down for their 1st, but overall quite happy with him
Clark.....never going to do it imho, we looked a far better defence when Baker went there.Clark is like LMoore, has a lot of ability, average to good at most things, but not good enough at anything to be a good player.
Baker....is 19, and is going to make mistakes, but saved 3 goals today, and if we perservere with him will be an England player.One of the only bright sparks today.
KEA.....again looks a good player, struggled with Bannan alongside him, looked better with Holman alongside him.Another bright spark.
Bannan....as a footballer , i like him, but you have to indulge Bannan, and have a midfield built around him, we can't have that.We were a lot better when he went off.Swap him for Ince at Bpool.
Herd....where was he supposed to be playing today.Waste of time, he did'nt have a clue, nor did I.A squad player, very poor today.
N'Zog....for all his faults, he is our most creative player, and he created 3 chances today.If we don't play him , who else.I thought with Holman and KEA and Eric, he played well the last 20 mins.We have to persevere with him.
Delf........hard to judge, worked hard, one good cross, never got the ball.
Bent......If we haven't got the money to buy, then i would be tempted to sell.Didn't do a great deal today, run around a bit, to be fair didn't have much service.
Holman.....played well when he played in Bannans position, shit up until that.At least he moves off the ball, unlike Bannan.
Weimann.....every time I see him, he looks like scoring.Unlucky today, would have made a very interesting last 5 mins.
Lambert.......made a balls up with the starting line up, and we was 3-0 down by H/T.At least he made some admission of guilt by making subs.
We looked a lot better when Bannan and Herd went off, and Clark going off was a blessing.Unless we make 2/3 signings now, we are going to struggle.
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No shortage of effort and endeavor but there's no hiding from the fact we're desperately short of quality. Just two or three more accomplished and physically stronger players would make a huge difference. It would also allow us to blood the younger players more gradually.
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didnt get in to the ground untill half time due to a jam on the M1,
just got in from the pub, was asked by a few people what i thought i said, put your money on Everton to finish top 4 its the best Everton team i can remember since the 80's, very impressive, good balance right through the side
as for Villa, the only positive i can think of is that the players Lambert has bought in they all look good, especially Vlaar, but like i said i only saw the second half
probably a blessing
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I'm quite surprised people are surprised how bad we were.
Given - past his best.
Vlaar - New country, new league
Clark - Yet to convince and young
Baker - Yet to convince and young
Lowton - League 1 defender last year
El Ahmadi - New country, new league
N'Zogbia - Proven not good enough in skill or attitude
Bannan - Yet to convince and young or proven not good enough depending on your stance
Herd - Yet to convince and young
Bent - Needs supply but proven grade A premier league scorer
Delfouneso - Proven shit, not good enough at all. Martin Carruthersesque
Ireland -Lacking in attitude and application
Delph - Yet to convince and young or proven not old enough depending on your stance
Weimann - Massive hope for him but yet to convince and young
Holman - Young, unproven, new league we need him to step up massively
Hopefully fans no realise how bad we actually are and stop talking about top half/European place finish and just pray not to get relegated.
We need major major experienced investment now otherwise we may well be playing Championship football next year.
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I wonder if Robbie Savage has stopped pissing himself yet...
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I wonder if Robbie Savage has stopped pissing himself yet...
Why do so many people care what Robbie Savage thinks?
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It all changed after KEA scored that goal. We were more aggressive, we more making runs, we were taking on players, turning players. It was like watching a different team out there. The full-backs were getting forward, Weimann was finding space in behind and KEA was roaming through the centre of the park finding forward passes. This was all at 10 men too.
We just need that mentality that we had in the final 15 minutes to be the same for the entire of the match. We actually hounded Everton into giving us the ball and because we took them on, we started to break them down. Before that though we were like frightened sheep and only passed sideways or backwards and just let them walk all over us. We can't have that mentality going into a Premier League match.
In terms of players, Baker needs to go at CB. Guzan needs to start in goal. Weimann, Holman and Delph should be replacing Fonz, N'Zogbia and Bannan. Lichaj or a new player has to go at LB. Do that and get us going forward and we shall have no worries about relegation.
Bloody good post, agree with all but I noticed in the match thread you picked up on one very important point, Villa players running with the ball, something we see far too little of. It's all well and good passing it about but it doesn't put the opposition under any real pressure. On the rare occasion we put Everton on the back foot the space opened up. We need to do more of that.
Credit should also be given to Everton who are playing with both confidence and arrogance, such is their belief in their own individual and collective ability, something we seriously lack but whilst Lambert is still judging what he's got, it's not going to happen overnight.
The game was dead and Everton were relaxing having made multiple subs by the time we showed any sign of improvement. On that basis it's hard to draw too many positives.
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Oh and Baker looks a far better CB than Clark. He's not a LB though. More and more I think Clark will be best back in midfield. Bannan continues to be achieve very little, quite how he got picked ahead of Delph and Ireland is beyond me. As for Zog, that run where he skinned 2 defenders and then promptly ran it out of play sums him up. Plenty of talent but too inconsistent especially with an end product.
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I wonder if Robbie Savage has stopped pissing himself yet...
Why do so many people care what Robbie Savage thinks?
I care what anyone thinks about my club. In the same way I feel a sense of pride when somebody compliments us in the media (rare I know), when someone knocks us I get annoyed.
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It's not hard to tell the story of randy's reign do far though is it?:
- initial excitement, great backing for the manager, if not superstar players
- in hindsight, too much financial control given to the manager, which basically meant unless we got into the champions league we'd be losing buckets of cash
- realised the error of his ways
- poor managerial choice x2
- period of very significant retrenchment as villa try to become "the Ajax of the midlands
" and do it all with homegrown players
- a good manager in now. But the retrenchment continues. I wonder if they thought lambert was ideal because he can do it without any cash
Perhaps lambert will turn it around. But I wouldn't be surprised if he decides within the next month that we're in trouble with this squad and tells the chairman that to his face
If I was Lambert I'd be giving Randy a call to tell him unless I had £20m to spend in the next week I'd be on my way out of here. I certainly wouldn't risk my burgeoning reputation on such an incompetent bunch of senior players and over rated youngsters.
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We were mostly awful for the first hour and kept giving away poor goals. We did though salvage something after the sending off and suggest that there might, with one or two additions, be the basis of a half decent team in there somewhere. Having Gabby, Dunne and Albrighton available will help but there's clearly work to be done, both in the transfer market and on the training ground.
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It's not hard to tell the story of randy's reign do far though is it?:
- initial excitement, great backing for the manager, if not superstar players
- in hindsight, too much financial control given to the manager, which basically meant unless we got into the champions league we'd be losing buckets of cash
- realised the error of his ways
- poor managerial choice x2
- period of very significant retrenchment as villa try to become "the Ajax of the midlands
" and do it all with homegrown players
- a good manager in now. But the retrenchment continues. I wonder if they thought lambert was ideal because he can do it without any cash
Perhaps lambert will turn it around. But I wouldn't be surprised if he decides within the next month that we're in trouble with this squad and tells the chairman that to his face
If I was Lambert I'd be giving Randy a call to tell him unless I had £20m to spend in the next week I'd be on my way out of here. I certainly wouldn't risk my burgeoning reputation on such an incompetent bunch of senior players and over rated youngsters.
Can he really tell that from 2 games?
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Not a surprising result. Sometimes you have to accept that the opposition are better than you. I'm concerned that its borderline if there are three teams worse than us the way we are currently playing.
The encouraging thing is that the players that PL has purchased look good and so you would think that any additions he makes will improve the team. And that is the crux of it for me:add to the squad and we should be fine and will be able to use this season as a transitional one for a better future. If we don't we may get relegated.
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Sorry if already mentioned but Everton fan on 5Live gave an excellent assessment of Villa today - gave Everton too much time and space, failed to close the opposition down and never looked liked scoring. He thought Everton played well but with a very big nod to our incompetence.
Couldn't have agreed more.
As ever, I live in hope that we will turn things around, but I doubt Bannan and Fonz will make a contribution to that.
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Its about time we started with 11 and that means no Bent Bannan Nzogbia, make us hard to beat. we need to start somewhere.
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I haven't read all of this thread, my 2p's worth. Everton were very good. We looked seriously bad. There'll be games we can't make, own today's showing we won't be able to give the tickets away.
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My younger son with whom I went to the game today has a friend who is very close to the movers and shakers at Norwich. He says Paul Lambert comes down like a ton of bricks on anybody he thinks has let him down and that he is certain he will be in the faces of the board next week for money to sign new players. I was impressed by the short shrift he gave Villa hater Pat Murphy in his post match interview. Reminiscent of Ron Saunders at his growliest.
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Its about time we started with 11 and that means no Bent Bannan Nzogbia, make us hard to beat. we need to start somewhere.
I'd add Given to that list.
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Oh and Baker looks a far better CB than Clark. He's not a LB though. More and more I think Clark will be best back in midfield. Bannan continues to be achieve very little, quite how he got picked ahead of Delph and Ireland is beyond me. As for Zog, that run where he skinned 2 defenders and then promptly ran it out of play sums him up. Plenty of talent but too inconsistent especially with an end product.
I think that Baker has a brighter future at Centre Half than Clark. To me, Clark is a Barry-esque player who will end up moving to left back and then central midfield.
Zog seems to have lost all interest in passing and shooting. He just keeps running with the ball until he bumps into someone or runs out of pitch.
Bannan played one great cross field ball in the firspickle, picking out the player perfectly. Unfortunately the player in question was Pienaar.
Weimann looked bright. I don't understand how PL could prefer Fonz
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I was impressed by the short shrift he gave Villa hater Pat Murphy in his post match interview. Reminiscent of Ron Saunders at his growliest.
Really? I've always found Pat Murphy very knowledgable and fair.
What did he say to Lambert then?
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Everton were excellent, we were poor and lucky it was only a 3-1 defeat. Everton closed us down and didn't allow us space to create, unfortunately we weren't closing them down and were allowing them space to create chances and dominate the game.
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Has to be said, McLeish's signings are really letting us down.
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Murphy can be extremely bumptious at time, like most journalists but has no agenda against the club from what I have seen (and heard).
I have every confidence that we have a manager capable of doing well at the club. It's shit now but it will change.
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It's not hard to tell the story of randy's reign do far though is it?:
- initial excitement, great backing for the manager, if not superstar players
- in hindsight, too much financial control given to the manager, which basically meant unless we got into the champions league we'd be losing buckets of cash
- realised the error of his ways
- poor managerial choice x2
- period of very significant retrenchment as villa try to become "the Ajax of the midlands
" and do it all with homegrown players
- a good manager in now. But the retrenchment continues. I wonder if they thought lambert was ideal because he can do it without any cash
Perhaps lambert will turn it around. But I wouldn't be surprised if he decides within the next month that we're in trouble with this squad and tells the chairman that to his face
If I was Lambert I'd be giving Randy a call to tell him unless I had £20m to spend in the next week I'd be on my way out of here. I certainly wouldn't risk my burgeoning reputation on such an incompetent bunch of senior players and over rated youngsters.
Can he really tell that from 2 games?
Yep.
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Oh and Baker looks a far better CB than Clark. He's not a LB though. More and more I think Clark will be best back in midfield. Bannan continues to be achieve very little, quite how he got picked ahead of Delph and Ireland is beyond me. As for Zog, that run where he skinned 2 defenders and then promptly ran it out of play sums him up. Plenty of talent but too inconsistent especially with an end product.
I think that Baker has a brighter future at Centre Half than Clark. To me, Clark is a Barry-esque player who will end up moving to left back and then central midfield.
Zog seems to have lost all interest in passing and shooting. He just keeps running with the ball until he bumps into someone or runs out of pitch.
Bannan played one great cross field ball in the first have, picking out the player perfectly. Unfortunately the player in question was Pienaar.
Weimann looked bright. I don't understand how PL could prefer Fonz
Fonz had that early run and I was quite hopeful for him. Don't think he did anything after that. But i'm with you, i'd have Weimann ahead of him.
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Oh and Baker looks a far better CB than Clark. He's not a LB though. More and more I think Clark will be best back in midfield. Bannan continues to be achieve very little, quite how he got picked ahead of Delph and Ireland is beyond me. As for Zog, that run where he skinned 2 defenders and then promptly ran it out of play sums him up. Plenty of talent but too inconsistent especially with an end product.
I think that Baker has a brighter future at Centre Half than Clark. To me, Clark is a Barry-esque player who will end up moving to left back and then central midfield.
Zog seems to have lost all interest in passing and shooting. He just keeps running with the ball until he bumps into someone or runs out of pitch.
Bannan played one great cross field ball in the first have, picking out the player perfectly. Unfortunately the player in question was Pienaar.
Weimann looked bright. I don't understand how PL could prefer Fonz
I've mentioned it before that Baker is underrated by many Villa supporters. Once Baker moved inside to C/B and Lichaj came on we looked more comfortable at the back.
He's no left back, but he save 3 almost certain goals with his tackles, It was between Baker and Vlaar for my MoM.
As for N'Zogbia:
I didn't want us to sign him and wek in and week out he adds fuel to my feeling.
Today I watched a great run followed by a farcical ending and later in the game, almost in front of me, he stood and watched Holman run his balls off tangling with 3 Everton players, if he'd actuallly commited himself we may have come out with the ball. Get rid of, please!!
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Our current squad looks about as weak as I can remember. We need to make more additions to the squad before the transfer window closes.
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Pretty damn woeful overall. We showed in the last 20 minutes that we can at least play football when the intensity has gone out of the game. But it could have been 6 or 7 there.
The only positives for me were holman's movement second half, KEA second half and I thought baker looked decent. I'd also hope that's enough to convince that we desperately need a couple of quality players
Bent and cnz were really bad I thought.
Would probably play a first xi v tranmere to try and get some team play going. I reckon
Fuzzy - low ton vlaar baker lichaj - Holman kea delph cnz - bent Weimann
Agree, bar one player Matt.
How many more chances are we going to give cn'z?
I don't normally single out players, but the guy's a liability, mate. I'd bang in Carruthers.
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Pat Murphy has had his arse in his hand about the Villa for a long time because Randy Lerner will not give him interviews. On the very few occasions we play well he damns us with faint praise and when we struggle like today he is distainful and patronizing. He was very keen on TSM because he cultivated media sycophancy just like O'Neill did and does. Lambert is cut from stronger stuff and sucks up to nobody, the sort of manager we want and need
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I was surprised at the starting line up with Herd,Bannan and Delfouneso all playing, but I thought at the time it would be OK as Lambert likes to change things.When we were 2-0 down and I saw Ireland,Holman and Delph warming up I just wished we had kept them in the starting line up.
I have never been impressed with Clark at centre back as he gets beaten in the air too easily and isn't strong enough.Baker has done nothing in any position that he has played for us to stop me thinking he will be a real player for us, I thought he was one of the few plus points today.
The fans were greaqt today, the loudest I have heard for ages not helped one bit by the team.
As for Lambert I just get a much better feeling that he is absolutely the right manager for us.
The big question mark hangs over Lerner what are his motives ? If it is what we seem to be witnessing regarding transfers then he should at least be honest with us.
The worry for me is that I feel sorry for Lambert, if I'm thinking that now, he must be wondering what he has let himself in for -I think he will tell Lerner to "do one" if he's not backed.
Where would that leave us ?
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Apart from a ten minute flurry after the sending off we were utterly f#ckin dreadful. This is the worst Villa team since 86/87. Lerner needs to take a long hard look at himself and ask if he actually wants to see us relegated, because that's where we're heading with this squad of hapless nobodies.
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Even before witnessing todays display I had been thinking we were in massive trouble, there is so little depth or quality to the squad and I really fear for us unless we spend heavily next week but we all know that wont be happening, this is the poorest set of players since 1987 and as good a young manager as Lambert is I feel saving us may be beyond him, I am preparing myself for the drop.
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By my reckoning our current form is 1 win in our last 18 league games and 1 win in our last 14 home games. Scared yet?
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By my reckoning our current form is 1 win in our last 18 league games and 1 win in our last 14 home games. Scared yet?
And people question why some boo the team
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Excuse me for butting in. I gather that we have been relegated already.
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It doesn't get any easier next week with a trip to "the toon". Are they playing their Europa League qualifer next Thursday?
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By my reckoning our current form is 1 win in our last 18 league games and 1 win in our last 14 home games. Scared yet?
No not scared at all. Stats are stats and this one is a bit like team x hasn't beaten team y for 40 years when they actually have not played each for 38 of those 40. Almost new team new coach new set up last season is history.
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Excuse me for butting in. I gather that we have been relegated already.
Nearly, our current owner only needs to ship out 3 more highly paid players and rely on 2 inexperienced youth players replacing them.
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Pretty damn woeful overall. We showed in the last 20 minutes that we can at least play football when the intensity has gone out of the game. But it could have been 6 or 7 there.
The only positives for me were holman's movement second half, KEA second half and I thought baker looked decent. I'd also hope that's enough to convince that we desperately need a couple of quality players
Bent and cnz were really bad I thought.
Would probably play a first xi v tranmere to try and get some team play going. I reckon
Fuzzy - low ton vlaar baker lichaj - Holman kea delph cnz - bent Weimann
Agree, bar one player Matt.
How many more chances are we going to give cn'z?
I don't normally single out players, but the guy's a liability, mate. I'd bang in Carruthers.
I didn't know who else to think of! I subsequently remembered Ireland. He's who I'd probably play. It'd be a seriously narrow midfield though. But then Pienaar and Naismith were playing very tucked in, with Baines in particular fantastic as overlapping full back. I don't think their style is a bad model for us to follow. The problem is:
- Bent can't hold the ball up and play others in in the same way Jelavic does
- We don't really have a second fwd like Fellaini. Ireland and Bent doesn't work.
To be honest, I don't know really. There's so much to do.
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Excuse me for butting in. I gather that we have been relegated already.
Not yet, but we'll know in a weeks time.
Over to you Randy.
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By my reckoning our current form is 1 win in our last 18 league games and 1 win in our last 14 home games. Scared yet?
No not scared at all. Stats are stats and this one is a bit like team x hasn't beaten team y for 40 years when they actually have not played each for 38 of those 40. Almost new team new coach new set up last season is history.
That would be valid but apart from this stat includes most of the same players that were involved in the form that started last season. And 4 new players isn't a nearly new team, and certainly isn't when part of a squad that is 20+ players.
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I'm afraid the likes of Ireland, N'Zogbia and Fonz just epitomise us at the moment.
Lacking quality, confidence and application.
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We're still far too slow moving the ball in central midfield through to the forwards, very often it will move at snail's pace and then because the opponents have got back, we then start passing sideways and eventually backwards.
Short term Ireland just has to start for me. I was amazed he didn't play today. Fair enough I can understand him being on the bench for some away games but a home game today I fully expected him to play today.
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Just got back, my pennys worth.
Given.........Gone, at fault for the 1st 2 goals, probably should have done better on the 3rd.£60k per week, not worth it.
Lowton....Ok, not too bad, would'nt have got in the team 3 years ago, now seems to be the kind of player we are buying.Looks ok, not slow, not bad on the ball, had a reasonable game against Pienaar.
Vlaar..........steady, looks a good buy for £3m imho, probably should have closed the shot down for their 1st, but overall quite happy with him
Clark.....never going to do it imho, we looked a far better defence when Baker went there.Clark is like LMoore, has a lot of ability, average to good at most things, but not good enough at anything to be a good player.
Baker....is 19, and is going to make mistakes, but saved 3 goals today, and if we perservere with him will be an England player.One of the only bright sparks today.
KEA.....again looks a good player, struggled with Bannan alongside him, looked better with Holman alongside him.Another bright spark.
Bannan....as a footballer , i like him, but you have to indulge Bannan, and have a midfield built around him, we can't have that.We were a lot better when he went off.Swap him for Ince at Bpool.
Herd....where was he supposed to be playing today.Waste of time, he did'nt have a clue, nor did I.A squad player, very poor today.
N'Zog....for all his faults, he is our most creative player, and he created 3 chances today.If we don't play him , who else.I thought with Holman and KEA and Eric, he played well the last 20 mins.We have to persevere with him.
Delf........hard to judge, worked hard, one good cross, never got the ball.
Bent......If we haven't got the money to buy, then i would be tempted to sell.Didn't do a great deal today, run around a bit, to be fair didn't have much service.
Holman.....played well when he played in Bannans position, shit up until that.At least he moves off the ball, unlike Bannan.
Weimann.....every time I see him, he looks like scoring.Unlucky today, would have made a very interesting last 5 mins.
Lambert.......made a balls up with the starting line up, and we was 3-0 down by H/T.At least he made some admission of guilt by making subs.
We looked a lot better when Bannan and Herd went off, and Clark going off was a blessing.Unless we make 2/3 signings now, we are going to struggle.
I also think N'Zogbia wasn't as bad as some are making out. Today, he was one of few players that at least tried to make something happen. He had one cracking run in the first half but delayed crossing due to the lack of options in the box. Basically, a large proportion of fans have made their mind up that 'he's shit and doesn't try' that they don't actually see things. At one moment today he was crowded out by three Everton players in the second half, obviously lost out and I then heard the bloke behind shout that he doesn't want to know. It's laughable sometimes just how stupid people are.
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Just got back, my pennys worth.
Given.........Gone, at fault for the 1st 2 goals, probably should have done better on the 3rd.£60k per week, not worth it.
Lowton....Ok, not too bad, would'nt have got in the team 3 years ago, now seems to be the kind of player we are buying.Looks ok, not slow, not bad on the ball, had a reasonable game against Pienaar.
Vlaar..........steady, looks a good buy for £3m imho, probably should have closed the shot down for their 1st, but overall quite happy with him
Clark.....never going to do it imho, we looked a far better defence when Baker went there.Clark is like LMoore, has a lot of ability, average to good at most things, but not good enough at anything to be a good player.
Baker....is 19, and is going to make mistakes, but saved 3 goals today, and if we perservere with him will be an England player.One of the only bright sparks today.
KEA.....again looks a good player, struggled with Bannan alongside him, looked better with Holman alongside him.Another bright spark.
Bannan....as a footballer , i like him, but you have to indulge Bannan, and have a midfield built around him, we can't have that.We were a lot better when he went off.Swap him for Ince at Bpool.
Herd....where was he supposed to be playing today.Waste of time, he did'nt have a clue, nor did I.A squad player, very poor today.
N'Zog....for all his faults, he is our most creative player, and he created 3 chances today.If we don't play him , who else.I thought with Holman and KEA and Eric, he played well the last 20 mins.We have to persevere with him.
Delf........hard to judge, worked hard, one good cross, never got the ball.
Bent......If we haven't got the money to buy, then i would be tempted to sell.Didn't do a great deal today, run around a bit, to be fair didn't have much service.
Holman.....played well when he played in Bannans position, shit up until that.At least he moves off the ball, unlike Bannan.
Weimann.....every time I see him, he looks like scoring.Unlucky today, would have made a very interesting last 5 mins.
Lambert.......made a balls up with the starting line up, and we was 3-0 down by H/T.At least he made some admission of guilt by making subs.
We looked a lot better when Bannan and Herd went off, and Clark going off was a blessing.Unless we make 2/3 signings now, we are going to struggle.
I also think N'Zogbia wasn't as bad as some are making out. Today, he was one of few players that at least tried to make something happen. He had one cracking run in the first half but delayed crossing due to the lack of options in the box. Basically, a large proportion of fans have made their mind up that 'he's shit and doesn't try' that they don't actually see things. At one moment today he was crowded out by three Everton players in the second half, obviously lost out and I then heard the bloke behind shout that he doesn't want to know. It's laughable sometimes just how stupid people are.
£10m fee and £50k a week is laughable and stupid.
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£10m is nothing these days. I'm not saying he was great just that he is no worse than a lot of players that appear to get away with it. What we actually have is a squad that has absolutely no confidence. They see a club that is being managed to oblivion, seeing it's best players sold and not replaced and there's little to be positive about on or off the pitch. If you've ever worked in a place where morale has taken a hit you'll know negativity is infectious and needs a lot of work to turn round. What is doesn't mean is that all the staff are shit, simply misguided. Take the last two years at VP into account and I think many of the squad probably don't know if they're coming or going. Remember since MON they have had KMc, GH, GMc, AMc and PL all with their own ideas, tactics, etc. It's been ridiculous really when you think about it.
Also, talk of Bent is stupid simply because unless we're going to take a big loss (which would be lauaghable and stupid) then no one is going to bid anything close to what we purchased him for.
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Id like to see cnz getting a run in
the 2nd striker role like he did at wigan. He's not a winger, is he
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PL doesn't appear to want wingers in his team. A bit of mistake in my mind simply because it starves us of crosiing opportunities (something Bent needs) and allows opposition full backs to run riot as happened today. All we can hope it that a 2-4 faces appear next week but I'm not hopeful.
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I think I shall open a dry cleaner's, specialising in brown trousers. It will surely make my fortune.
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I think I shall open a dry cleaner's, specialising in brown trousers. It will surely make my fortune.
you might want to open a spec savers as well, there are people on here that think that Nzog is playing ok.
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I agree CNZ wasn't as awful as some suggested. And it is a bit irritating that fans always criticise a player for 'not trying' whenever they're not doing it. Sometimes a lack of confidence mean players don't show for the ball, but I genuinely think 90% of players are trying hard most of the time. Chris Herd tries hard. He's just not very good. That's why it looked like he wasn't playing today.
to be honest, it was so bad today that we just need to move on. Practically everyone got it wrong today, including Lambert. But I imagine he'll have learnt a fair bit about the likes of Bannan, Clark, Fonz and seen some worrying things about Bent.
I would be surprised if Guzan, Delph and Ireland don't start against Newcastle.
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The other thing to say of course, is that Everton were absolutely fantastic. A wonderful performance. I like Everton, and Moyes, and I'd love it if they had a good season. They really could have had about 7 or 8, comfortably.
Just watching the highlights, and Clark did have a bit of a stinker I think. I've changed my view.
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Outclassed.
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Well, that was absolutely fucking awful. Everton (Bloody Everton!) played the way I'd have loved us to play.
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Well, that was absolutely fucking awful. Everton (Bloody Everton!) played the way I'd have loved us to play.
The disorganised way we played, giving them too much space and time on the ball helped them enormously. But credit to them for doing the job so well.
I'd love us to play like that too...perhaps we will in time...
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Everton looked very good, starting strong too could mean a very good season for them. I do like that fella up front for them, cracking player.
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The problem is, it took Moyes about 7 years to get Everton playing football of that style, as he had no money. Although Swansea seem to have managed it.
If we think Lambert is the right man, he will get it right. We might be in the Championship by the time he does, but he will get it right!
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While Everton were very good today, probably the best i've seen them play at VP since the mid 80's, it's taken one manager 10 years to get them playing that well. Lambert has had competitive 2 games. Look at Swansea as well, they play some fantastic stuff but it's because of a plan they've had in place for years coming to fruition.
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The other thing to say of course, is that Everton were absolutely fantastic. A wonderful performance. I like Everton, and Moyes, and I'd love it if they had a good season. They really could have had about 7 or 8, comfortably.
Just watching the highlights, and Clark did have a bit of a stinker I think. I've changed my view.
Agreed Matt. Didn't think Clark had missed so much until I've just seen it in replay. He struggled to handle Jelavic; Baker did a much better job. I'd keep him at CB and move Clark to DM (or buy a solid DM very soon!).
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I'm confident Lambert will get it right, I am not going to panic. Hopefully with every match even if we lose it's a step in the right direction with who the boss wants here and how he will go about making it work. I'm sure this will be a testing time for us but it will pay off in the long run.
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I'm confident Lambert will get it right, I am not going to panic. Hopefully with every match even if we lose it's a step in the right direction with who the boss wants here and how he will go about making it work. I'm sure this will be a testing time for us but it will pay off in the long run.
I believe in the manager.
I don't believe in the squad, though.
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The other thing to say of course, is that Everton were absolutely fantastic. A wonderful performance. I like Everton, and Moyes, and I'd love it if they had a good season. They really could have had about 7 or 8, comfortably.
Just watching the highlights, and Clark did have a bit of a stinker I think. I've changed my view.
Agreed Matt. Didn't think Clark had missed so much until I've just seen it in replay. He struggled to handle Jelavic; Baker did a much better job. I'd keep him at CB and move Clark to DM (or buy a solid DM very soon!).
Yes, he was partially at fault for missing the cross when Fellaini scored, for losing Jelavic, and for sleeping when he got sent off. I just don't know if he's got a defender's mindset? Baker clearly does.
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I'm confident Lambert will get it right, I am not going to panic. Hopefully with every match even if we lose it's a step in the right direction with who the boss wants here and how he will go about making it work. I'm sure this will be a testing time for us but it will pay off in the long run.
I believe in the manager.
I don't believe in the squad, though.
No I don't either. I'm sure PL is learning this the hard way. Hopefully he has players in mind already and we can bring some in this week.
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I'm confident Lambert will get it right, I am not going to panic. Hopefully with every match even if we lose it's a step in the right direction with who the boss wants here and how he will go about making it work. I'm sure this will be a testing time for us but it will pay off in the long run.
It's impossible to have a plan when the manager isn't being backed. It is simply not possible to shape the squad we have at the moment into an effective Premier League force, there are simply too many players who are not nearly good enough.
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I'd like to add that having finally seen the goals again, that really was wank from Given for the second. I had no idea how bad an error it was at the time as from where I was in the Lower Holte I just saw a header and then heard the cheer from the scousers.
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Hearing the links with the likes of Cresswell, too ... I don't know what he's like, I haven't watched Ipswich play since about 1993, but I find it hard to believe that the answer to our squad weakness (which needs to be addressed quickly, with players who will perform quickly) lies in cheap players from the lower divisions.
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I'm confident Lambert will get it right, I am not going to panic. Hopefully with every match even if we lose it's a step in the right direction with who the boss wants here and how he will go about making it work. I'm sure this will be a testing time for us but it will pay off in the long run.
It's impossible to have a plan when the manager isn't being backed. It is simply not possible to shape the squad we have at the moment into an effective Premier League force, there are simply too many players who are not nearly good enough.
Hopefully he will be backed, a week to go I suppose in the market to find out. Its very clear we need some new faces.
The window in January is going to be massive for us too.
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I think I shall open a dry cleaner's, specialising in brown trousers. It will surely make my fortune.
Does Carol Vorderman live in your area?
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Hearing the links with the likes of Cresswell, too ... I don't know what he's like, I haven't watched Ipswich play since about 1993, but I find it hard to believe that the answer to our squad weakness (which needs to be addressed quickly, with players who will perform quickly) lies in cheap players from the lower divisions.
We have got a Tractor girl at work, she goes up quite regular too. Fair play to her it's quite a way from Devon. She will be pissed right off if we get him, she says he is by far the best player they have and is very popular with the fans.
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Hearing the links with the likes of Cresswell, too ... I don't know what he's like, I haven't watched Ipswich play since about 1993, but I find it hard to believe that the answer to our squad weakness (which needs to be addressed quickly, with players who will perform quickly) lies in cheap players from the lower divisions.
It's about time we had another Platt/Delaney type signing from the lower leagues.
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Why clowns? If I'd performed as badly at my job as the team did today and for the previous 12 games I would be joining the dole queue. My season ticket and watching Villa takes a large chunk of my hard earned (which is less in a year than the clowns on the pitch earn in a week) if I want to boo I'll boo, it doesn't make me clown, particularly when I've paid for the right to do it.
Oh and by the way I didn't boo today but object to people dictating how others should express their dissatisfaction.
Okay - how does booing help the situation? I'm not trying to say all the players are shrinking violets, but it's hardly going to boost the confidence of the players, is it? As Mac put on Twitter - why would anybody want to join Villa with the fans offering that as 'support'?
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Why clowns? If I'd performed as badly at my job as the team did today and for the previous 12 games I would be joining the dole queue. My season ticket and watching Villa takes a large chunk of my hard earned (which is less in a year than the clowns on the pitch earn in a week) if I want to boo I'll boo, it doesn't make me clown, particularly when I've paid for the right to do it.
Oh and by the way I didn't boo today but object to people dictating how others should express their dissatisfaction.
Okay - how does booing help the situation? I'm not trying to say all the players are shrinking violets, but it's hardly going to boost the confidence of the players, is it? As Mac put on Twitter - why would anybody want to join Villa with the fans offering that as 'support'?
The same bullshit argument given when we were booed last year.
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Why clowns? If I'd performed as badly at my job as the team did today and for the previous 12 games I would be joining the dole queue. My season ticket and watching Villa takes a large chunk of my hard earned (which is less in a year than the clowns on the pitch earn in a week) if I want to boo I'll boo, it doesn't make me clown, particularly when I've paid for the right to do it.
Oh and by the way I didn't boo today but object to people dictating how others should express their dissatisfaction.
Okay - how does booing help the situation? I'm not trying to say all the players are shrinking violets, but it's hardly going to boost the confidence of the players, is it? As Mac put on Twitter - why would anybody want to join Villa with the fans offering that as 'support'?
That's not the way to look at it - more "why would anyone be put off joining Villa because a fw people booed at half time" - something the vast majority of the football world will have no idea about anyway.
I don't like booing, particularly at half time, but it happens, and sometimes it's easy to understand why people do it, like 1 win in 18 matches or whatever it is.
Let's not cut ourselves up over it.
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Think Cresswell scored an own goal today, looking forward to seeing Thomas Ince against him in the championship programme. Think Ince has real talent. Trouble is Holloway is a prize to55er and wont be easy to get him.
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Lets be honest, if you are 3-0 down at home at half time, would you expect a standing ovation? Who is Mac by the way?
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Why clowns? If I'd performed as badly at my job as the team did today and for the previous 12 games I would be joining the dole queue. My season ticket and watching Villa takes a large chunk of my hard earned (which is less in a year than the clowns on the pitch earn in a week) if I want to boo I'll boo, it doesn't make me clown, particularly when I've paid for the right to do it.
Oh and by the way I didn't boo today but object to people dictating how others should express their dissatisfaction.
Okay - how does booing help the situation? I'm not trying to say all the players are shrinking violets, but it's hardly going to boost the confidence of the players, is it? As Mac put on Twitter - why would anybody want to join Villa with the fans offering that as 'support'?
Conversely it could be argued why would anybody want to keep forking out money to watch Villa with the players offering that as "entertainment"?
I think the booing is maybe down to 1 win in 14 at home. That's a hell of a lot of money forked out to see 1 win in that period. For what it's worth i'm not a fan of booing unless things are really shit and only then at FT. But I can see why some would feel the need to.
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No I wouldn't. It was clear, though, that we're trying to change the way we play from last year. Maybe it's going to take longer than we thought, which is a shame, but I'm sure we'll improve. In fact I'm sure we're going to finish in the top 12. There - I've said it!
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I do get all this. Lots of people are bringing up our record going back to last season. I'm trying to forget that happened, so in my mind it's 1 defeat out of 1 at home.
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Lets be honest, if you are 3-0 down at home at half time, would you expect a standing ovation? Who is Mac by the way?
Which Mac?
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Lets be honest, if you are 3-0 down at home at half time, would you expect a standing ovation? Who is Mac by the way?
We need experienced Premiership players not potential from lower leagues. We have enough promising players of our own who are rapidly showing they are not good enough.
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I do get all this. Lots of people are bringing up our record going back to last season. I'm trying to forget that happened, so in my mind it's 1 defeat out of 1 at home.
I bet it's less easy to forget when you've forked out another £500 hoping that this season you'd finally get to watch some decent football.
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I dont boo...I just choose not to waste my money and free time going down there any more. I've lost all connection with the players on their ridiculous salaries, so after a hard long week at work I just want to enjoy my free time and save/spend my money on other things.
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I didn't go to any game last season under TSM apart from a couple of games when I got freebies from a pal. The 'new beginning' under Lambert almost inspired me to buy a season ticket again, however, due to the possibility of moving house I decided I would pick my games this season. This week I went and purchased a ticket for the new beginning.
I'm absolutely gutted by the result tonight. Not because I thought we would win handsomely, I'm long enough in the tooth to have seen us get beat the likes of Barnsley, Coventry and Doncaster. The problem I have with today is that we are so far behind Everton it is untrue, a team that 3 years ago we were at a minimum on a level par with.
I like Lambert, but today I thought he made mistakes in his selection, that said, we have too many championship standard players in our starting eleven. Baker, Lowton, Delfouneso, Bannan, Weimann, and Herd are not Premiership quality. I'm saying they won't ever be, but at the moment they're not.
I'm fucked off that at the moment Lerner seems content to see us as a Premiership team. I'm not happy for him to try and balance the books and see us as a Premier side that can spend hours on aeroplanes playing piss poor American opposition in different time zones. Pre season this season at Aston Villa WASN'T about giving our new manager time with his new players it was about Public fuckin relations with a country who generally don't give a fuck about football. How many shirts have the Yanks purchased as a result of this tour? I bet, less than 1000.
I do think that Lambert is the right man for Aston Villa, but Lerner has got to help the poor sod or else this season will be similar to last. Lambert has spent well so far and if Randy hasn't been on the phone to Lambert yet, he needs to do so pretty fucking quick to give him some help.
After 2 games, we're in the bottom 3, We're Aston Villa, and are mean to be far better than that shit...
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I knew it would turn out bad the second I saw that stupid flame thing as the players came out. Then Everton turned us around for kick off. Then we did a stupid hug thing... then I saw Bannan in a 2 man central midfield. We passed the ball for 90 seconds, lost it and they scored. Then, like at West Ham we had no answer. It looked like a youth team v an adult one. We have some good players, a couple of them were on the bench for no good reason.
We have to reinvent ourselves as a team but to do it in this league, with so many home grown players (most of which are not good enough) is such a risk. We need to get in a few experienced players in to toughen us up. There are a good few players unsigned many of which have been mentioned tonight, that we could get on one season deals.
I like Lambert. I just hope there is money to buy and a will to spend to get us the players to keep us up. Its so strange, so Aston Villa, that it feels like yesterday we were thinking about the top four, today I am fearful of the bottom four.
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Yes this will definitely be a wake up call for lambert. I don't think Clark had a shocker. Which of the goals were his fault? It was relentless pressure and no protection from midfield
But I don't mind the thought of baker playing there at the moment. He looks more of a 'defender'
Hate to say it but I think lambert got his team badly wrong today. I suspect everton would have won comfortably anyway but delph and Weimann would have been better than bannan or fonz perhaps. Holman looked a threat too
Early days yet though. Didn't Norwich have about 2 points after 5 games last season?
Yep, have to agree with that point.
Delfouneso has never done anything to remotely suggest he could ever be anywhere near good enough to play top level football, and hes been at it a while now.
Also Ireland on the bench was mystifying.
Lambert's obviously a very good manager, and with financial support i'd definitely back him to turn it around. However, from the evidence so far, he's going to need a LOT of backing.
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Lambert needs to see players under pressure in prem games hence the team selection,confident that Bannon and Delfonso will be let go and that Clark will not be playing centre half. All his buys did okay and i feel that now he has seen all thats on offer we will see a few players coming in before the end of trading. I don't like stay away owners, if Randy cannot be more involved then he should look to sell.
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I said it before on here that I think this season has started too soon for us. You can only tell so much in pre-season games and its only when the pressure is on in Premier League games can Lambert really see what his squad is like, so I dont mind his team selection today as long as he and the backroom staff learned more about the players from it. Hes got one more game midweek (which could spell an early cup exit) to test some players then decisions and signing have to be made...I have no doubt that we'll lose at Newcastle regardless of who we sign this week, so hope they dont make the mistake of giving the players another chance and leaving any transfer activity till last minute.
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As Mac put on Twitter - why would anybody want to join Villa with the fans offering that as 'support'?
So H&V isn't good enough for him to post his Villa views anymore?
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The game reminded me of the Swansea game last season, as in we where poor when we had the ball and outplayed by a better team for the majority of the game.
The young kids are good but I still think we need more premiership experience in the squad, Especialy in defence, 3 young players and a player new to the league will struggle.
I don't think we'll set the world on fire this season but I think we'll do ok as long as randy loosens the purse strings a little more.
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The bottom line is, the last few years we've sold and not replaced. We've finally ended up with exactly what you'd expect, a squad that is packed full of youth prospects that have yet to make the grade and make weight signings that don't particularly want to be here - oh and Darren Bent.
Ideally we need the transfer window to remain open until Christmas to really give PL a chance to sort this squad out instead of less than a week.
Bannan aint gonna make it, Fonz aint gonna make it, Albrighton aint gonna make it, Herd squad player at best, Ireland never wanted to be here and gives us so little for such a talented player it's embarressing, Dunne earned a contract extention and lost the desire, Given too many mistakes to play in a struggling team, N'Zogbia grossly overpriced and over rated, Warnock and Hutton are simply Championship players. That's 9 players that should have been shipped out (not including Herd who'll do us a job) over the Summer and they're all still here (at least we got rid of Collins or it'd be 10).
Randy's catastrophic Managerial selections have come home to roost so that the decent choice - Paul Lambert - now has to wade through the deadwood and not good enough before we can start the long haul back. I just hope he can shift this lot and get some quality in over the next week or a fear we are going to be in a season long relegation battle with a squad that really isn't up for it.
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The bottom line is, the last few years we've sold and not replaced. We've finally ended up with exactly what you'd expect, a squad that is packed full of youth prospects that have yet to make the grade and make weight signings that don't particularly want to be here - oh and Darren Bent.
Ideally we need the transfer window to remain open until Christmas to really give PL a chance to sort this squad out instead of less than a week.
Bannan aint gonna make it, Fonz aint gonna make it, Albrighton aint gonna make it, Herd squad player at best, Ireland never wanted to be here and gives us so little for such a talented player it's embarressing, Dunne earned a contract extention and lost the desire, Given too many mistakes to play in a struggling team, N'Zogbia grossly overpriced and over rated, Warnock and Hutton are simply Championship players. That's 9 players that should have been shipped out (not including Herd who'll do us a job) over the Summer and they're all still here (at least we got rid of Collins or it'd be 10).
Randy's catastrophic Managerial selections have come home to roost so that the decent choice - Paul Lambert - now has to wade through the deadwood and not good enough before we can start the long haul back. I just hope he can shift this lot and get some quality in over the next week or a fear we are going to be in a season long relegation battle with a squad that really isn't up for it.
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Lambert needs to see players under pressure in prem games hence the team selection,confident that Bannon and Delfonso will be let go and that Clark will not be playing centre half. All his buys did okay and i feel that now he has seen all thats on offer we will see a few players coming in before the end of trading. I don't like stay away owners, if Randy cannot be more involved then he should look to sell.
That's my take on it. Real matches are the reality. The Fonz and Bannan are not promising babbies anymore. They won't make it. Herd added nothing and Clark was a poor shadow of Baker, who was Motm by a mile,
Revolution not evolution is happening at VP but it will take time. It will be a close run thing but I'm confident ML can turn it round with some experience brought in this week. Otherwise...?
The austerity if the last 2 seasons and poor manager choices are coming home to roost. RL has to back the manager. I thought the new boys did ok.
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The bottom line is, the last few years we've sold and not replaced. We've finally ended up with exactly what you'd expect, a squad that is packed full of youth prospects that have yet to make the grade and make weight signings that don't particularly want to be here - oh and Darren Bent.
Ideally we need the transfer window to remain open until Christmas to really give PL a chance to sort this squad out instead of less than a week.
Bannan aint gonna make it, Fonz aint gonna make it, Albrighton aint gonna make it, Herd squad player at best, Ireland never wanted to be here and gives us so little for such a talented player it's embarressing, Dunne earned a contract extention and lost the desire, Given too many mistakes to play in a struggling team, N'Zogbia grossly overpriced and over rated, Warnock and Hutton are simply Championship players. That's 9 players that should have been shipped out (not including Herd who'll do us a job) over the Summer and they're all still here (at least we got rid of Collins or it'd be 10).
Randy's catastrophic Managerial selections have come home to roost so that the decent choice - Paul Lambert - now has to wade through the deadwood and not good enough before we can start the long haul back. I just hope he can shift this lot and get some quality in over the next week or a fear we are going to be in a season long relegation battle with a squad that really isn't up for it.
Sorry didn't mean to just post a quote, using the new mobile site for first time.
I agree with ozvilla, Bent doesn't look interested and N'zogbia has been poor since we signed him, as much as I believe he has for more to offer I don't think we are going to see it.
Delfounso played ok in first half and looked the most threading of our attacking players but he is championship at best.
I'd like to think there is more to come from Bannan but he has got to show it soon.
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Lambert needs to see players under pressure in prem games hence the team selection,confident that Bannon and Delfonso will be let go and that Clark will not be playing centre half. All his buys did okay and i feel that now he has seen all thats on offer we will see a few players coming in before the end of trading. I don't like stay away owners, if Randy cannot be more involved then he should look to sell.
Lerner basically started to lose interest two years ago. That's why MON left, he could see the way things were going then. RL is basically an ignorant crap businessman. If Doug had presided over the last two seasons, people would be crying out for him to go - I can't believe there's no stick for Lerner at home matches, mind you he's rarely there anymore. What's happened to our non-executive Director General Charles Krulak? You never hear from him or his input (if any) at the club. It's time for Lerner to sell up, but I fear we'll be playing Championship football next year anyway - the rot set in two years ago and it's gathering pace fast.
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Last i heard General Krulak was working on improving the enrolments at some Ole Miss style University in some southern State - using the strap line 'Proud history, bright future'. I'm not kidding either!
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Moyes has had 10 years at Everton Lambert has had 10 weeks. I'm not making excuses however. Lambo needs money that much is clear. Fonz, Bannan are not good enough, with the exception of Bent we haven't had decenct investment since Mon was here. Sold Downing for £20m brought Charles for £9.5 etc etc, we've got rid of 4 brought 4 new unknowns in, they can't be expected to step up straight away. Randy has 5 days to back Lambert or we are in deep deep shit, he may as well have left tsm in charge
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Oz Villa's summary was exactly right. Our home grown players have been thrown into the deep end week after week. A more stable club would have been able to blood them patiently but we have had so many idlers and divas on long contracts at vastly inflated wages the younger players have been demoralized and played out of position. They now have the additional disadvantage of having a silent introvert as captain.
I do not doubt that Bannan and Fonz and Albrighton and Herd and others will be shipped out and more experienced, mentally stronger players brought in to shore us up but you can be sure that at least one of the players we ship out once relieved of the losing siege mentality we have at the club at the moment will turn out to be a Peter Whittingham or a Craig Gardner or a Gary Cahill for their new clubs. On the face of it the evidence appears to be that the younger players we have expected so much from are not good enough but circumstances under which they have been trying to prove themselves could not have been worse for them.
It all goes back to the administrative car crash which was our handling of the O'Neill exit and the two catastrophic managerial appointments which followed. It will be a long and painful haul back. Yesterday was just the beginning of the pain.
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Oz Villa's summary was exactly right. Our home grown players have been thrown into the deep end week after week. A more stable club would have been able to blood them patiently but we have had so many idlers and divas on long contracts at vastly inflated wages the younger players have been demoralized and played out of position. They now have the additional disadvantage of having a silent introvert as captain.
Spot on Brian. I've always wondered, why even when every player is available to play, the boss of the time has always seemed to stick 2 or 3 of the youth in rather than a gradual one at a time mentality.
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It's not hard to tell the story of randy's reign do far though is it?:
- initial excitement, great backing for the manager, if not superstar players
- in hindsight, too much financial control given to the manager, which basically meant unless we got into the champions league we'd be losing buckets of cash
- realised the error of his ways
- poor managerial choice x2
- period of very significant retrenchment as villa try to become "the Ajax of the midlands
" and do it all with homegrown players
- a good manager in now. But the retrenchment continues. I wonder if they thought lambert was ideal because he can do it without any cash
Perhaps lambert will turn it around. But I wouldn't be surprised if he decides within the next month that we're in trouble with this squad and tells the chairman that to his face
If I was Lambert I'd be giving Randy a call to tell him unless I had £20m to spend in the next week I'd be on my way out of here. I certainly wouldn't risk my burgeoning reputation on such an incompetent bunch of senior players and over rated youngsters.
Can he really tell that from 2 games?
If he can't then he needs medical as well as football advice.
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MotD highlights (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/aston-villa-1-everton-3-motd/)
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Lets be honest, if you are 3-0 down at home at half time, would you expect a standing ovation? Who is Mac by the way?
It's the idiots who don't boo that make me sick - complete lack of passion...
;-) Can you see what I did there?
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The only positives to take out of yesterday were Nathan Baker who i thought was very good and us looking a bit more threatning when Weimann came on. Overall it was poor though. We might as well sell Bent if we're not going to play with any wingers who can put crosses into the box.
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That was the most inept performance I've seen from a Villa side at home for many a season. At least McLeish's dour teams made themselves difficult to beat more often than not. We were a disorganised shambles in every area of the pitch. We looked likely to concede at any given moment and never looked like scoring ourselves. The midfield was non existent with no plan on how to construct offensive moves. I at least expected to see some evidence of our new passing style. I didn't. It goes without saying that without major investment this week we are in serious trouble this season. The prospect of Newcastle away next with their attacking threat followed by the very impressive Swansea at home doesn't fill me with much optimism.
Searching vainly for positives, the players at least didn't capitulate when the team went down to ten men, and I thought Baker and Lowton showed promise, as did Holman when he came on.
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We where awful in the first half we did slightly better in the second apart from Baker, KEA, Lowton, and Weimann who didn't play too bad the rest were shocking we need to bring some more players this week fingers crossed we will do.
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Let's hope Mr Personality opens the cheque book and allows Lambert to purchase 3 quailty players.
I won't hold my breath though.
And please, let's not give Prat Murphy the oxygen of publicity.
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It's probably already been said but the major cock up yesterday was the tactics in the first half, which is a slight worry given Lambert's been portrayed as a tactical genius.
Everton's main (only?) asset is that they have one of the best midfields in the league. Our inexperienced midfield was always going to struggle so playing 442 against their 451 meant that they could absolutely dominate us. The amount of time and space they had while our lads chased shadows was ridiculous.
Lambert saw it but only made the change at half time, by which point the horse had well and truly bolted.
However, I don't think you can write off a season based on yesterday. We met an in-form Everton team and got our tactics completely wrong. I still believe that this squad (as long as key players stay fit) can be comfortably mid-table. Lambert needs a bit of time to get them playing the way he wants them to and we'll certainly win many more games than last season.
I just hope he can get more out of them, and picks the right tactics for the Swansea game as the form they're in at the moment could give a similar result to yesterday if we get it wrong.
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Last i heard General Krulak was working on improving the enrolments at some Ole Miss style University in some southern State - using the strap line 'Proud history, bright future'. I'm not kidding either!
Probably the most pathetic Marketing strap line in the history of our club.
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MotD highlights (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/aston-villa-1-everton-3-motd/)
Not going to put myself through it again Legion. Cheers anyway.
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Last i heard General Krulak was working on improving the enrolments at some Ole Miss style University in some southern State - using the strap line 'Proud history, bright future'. I'm not kidding either!
Probably the most pathetic Marketing strap line in the history of our club.
I love the fact that the General uses that at his college in America. If anything sums up the cynical, marketing led bollocks that was a feature of the first five year of Lerner's ownership, it's that. Spin, bluster, and downright lies.
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It's not hard to tell the story of randy's reign do far though is it?:
- initial excitement, great backing for the manager, if not superstar players
- in hindsight, too much financial control given to the manager, which basically meant unless we got into the champions league we'd be losing buckets of cash
- realised the error of his ways
- poor managerial choice x2
- period of very significant retrenchment as villa try to become "the Ajax of the midlands
" and do it all with homegrown players
- a good manager in now. But the retrenchment continues. I wonder if they thought lambert was ideal because he can do it without any cash
Perhaps lambert will turn it around. But I wouldn't be surprised if he decides within the next month that we're in trouble with this squad and tells the chairman that to his face
If I was Lambert I'd be giving Randy a call to tell him unless I had £20m to spend in the next week I'd be on my way out of here. I certainly wouldn't risk my burgeoning reputation on such an incompetent bunch of senior players and over rated youngsters.
Can he really tell that from 2 games?
If he can't then he needs medical as well as football advice.
SSN quotes today that Lambert has DEMANDED a summit meeting with Lerner this week so maybe Lambert knew what was missing, he has given it two games and now,hopefully, he will tell Lerner that without some quality signings that Villa Park is going to be the same rancid atmosphere that it has been for the last two seasons. Lambert will not want to blot his C.V because his new chairman will not back him. It could be a very interesting week or a very dissapointing week for us. We do not need to spend a fortune, just some quality or even with the best manager in the world we are going to struggle, again. Give Lambert some cash Lerner and he will do the job you got him in to do. We are in the mire else, big time.
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From Auntie:
But Lambert hinted he may bring in more players before the transfer window shuts on 31 August.
"Owner Randy Lerner, myself and chief executive Paul Faulkner will sit and see what's going to happen," the Scot said.
"If something comes available and I think it's worthwhile, then you can look at it.
"It's a really young side and sometimes you need a little bit of help."
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Worried.
But, it can all change very quickly if the manager is backed with some funds in the next few days. It has to happen.
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And if it doesn't or Randy won't back PL the way he wants to be backed?
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Last i heard General Krulak was working on improving the enrolments at some Ole Miss style University in some southern State - using the strap line 'Proud history, bright future'. I'm not kidding either!
Probably the most pathetic Marketing strap line in the history of our club.
I love the fact that the General uses that at his college in America. If anything sums up the cynical, marketing led bollocks that was a feature of the first five year of Lerner's ownership, it's that. Spin, bluster, and downright lies.
http://www.bsc.edu/communications/news/2011/bsc-proud-history.pdf (http://www.bsc.edu/communications/news/2011/bsc-proud-history.pdf)
General Charles C. Krulak
President, Birmingham-Southern College, Alabama
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I knew it would turn out bad the second I saw that stupid flame thing as the players came out.
I know, pathetic wasn't it. The embarrassing thing is that someone at the club has suggested this and others have agreed - surely someone somewhere down the line of command must have questioned it.
Next will be Blur's "Song 2" when/if we score.
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I knew it would turn out bad the second I saw that stupid flame thing as the players came out.
I know, pathetic wasn't it. The embarrassing thing is that someone at the club has suggested this and others have agreed - surely someone somewhere down the line of command must have questioned it.
Next will be Blur's "Song 2" when/if we score.
I was told it was PF's idea, to "enhance the matchday experience".
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I knew it would turn out bad the second I saw that stupid flame thing as the players came out.
I know, pathetic wasn't it. The embarrassing thing is that someone at the club has suggested this and others have agreed - surely someone somewhere down the line of command must have questioned it.
Next will be Blur's "Song 2" when/if we score.
I was told it was PF's idea, to "enhance the matchday experience".
Pah!!! My matchday experience would be greatly enhanced by a decent performance and a few goals (for us)
See what an ungrateful, fickle fan I am!
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Anyone think Given was at fault for the first goal as well? On MOTD it looked a good goal but I sit right behind that goal and i called it before it happened.
The shot was obviously going to happen and you could see where it was going but Given looked too slow to move to his left before he made the dive.
I'm hoping Guzan gets his chance because Given looks a nervous wreck
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I thought Given was at fault for all 3 goals. The third he was beaten on his near post, something a goalkeeper should never suffer. As for the second.. words fail me. Shocking!
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Agree,,, Guzan must take over now.. Given has lost all confidence
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Given is a world class shot stopper but a pretty average goal keeper.
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Signings - PROPER signings or were in for a long hard season, and after last season, we cant mess about, the goodwill just isnt there anymore. When Bannans shot was saved yesterday, our own fans were jeering him, now thats a seriously bad sign during our first home game of the season, i fear the worst.
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Think Cresswell scored an own goal today, looking forward to seeing Thomas Ince against him in the championship programme. Think Ince has real talent. Trouble is Holloway is a prize to55er and wont be easy to get him.
3 million and Bannan for Ince please. ok , throw in Fonz too.
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Signings - PROPER signings or were in for a long hard season, and after last season, we cant mess about, the goodwill just isnt there anymore. When Bannans shot was saved yesterday, our own fans were jeering him, now thats a seriously bad sign during our first home game of the season, i fear the worst.
I think they were commenting on the fact it was our first shot of the game and had taken 46 minutes rather than on Bannan.
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From Auntie:
But Lambert hinted he may bring in more players before the transfer window shuts on 31 August.
"Owner Randy Lerner, myself and chief executive Paul Faulkner will sit and see what's going to happen," the Scot said.
"If something comes available and I think it's worthwhile, then you can look at it.
"It's a really young side and sometimes you need a little bit of help."
They should have sat round a table with a Lambrini at least 2 months ago to sort out the mess we are in .
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Given should have saved comfortably the first 2 goals. After the first hour when it was men v boys and 5 nil would have been a fairer reflection of the play,the only positive I had was of relegation,but out of the doom n'gloom of a long bloody dark tunnel emerged Nathan Baker as CB ,a performance redolent of the debuts of Cahill and in ancient times Sleeuwenhoek. Clark's dismissal was not costly but beneficial. The substitutions of Bannan,totally ineffective again,Herd,played out of position,and Fonz earlier saw better performances from Holman,Lichaj and Weimann.
If Weimann had scored ,instead of hitting the post,from Holman's astute pass, then Holman's final run and shot,instead of passing to Bent to tap in,would have been very dramatic. 10 men remember.
Also ,encouraging was KEA,who when he sat deeper ,was outstanding and a very good performance from Vlaar.
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Given should have saved comfortably the first 2 goals. After the first hour when it was men v boys and 5 nil would have been a fairer reflection of the play,the only positive I had was of relegation,but out of the doom n'gloom of a long bloody dark tunnel emerged Nathan Baker as CB ,a performance redolent of the debuts of Cahill and in ancient times Sleeuwenhoek. Clark's dismissal was not costly but beneficial. The substitutions of Bannan,totally ineffective again,Herd,played out of position,and Fonz earlier saw better performances from Holman,Lichaj and Weimann.
If Weimann had scored ,instead of hitting the post,from Holman's astute pass, then Holman's final run and shot,instead of passing to Bent to tap in,would have been very dramatic. 10 men remember.
Also ,encouraging was KEA,who when he sat deeper ,was outstanding and a very good performance from Vlaar.
This
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Given should have saved comfortably the first 2 goals. After the first hour when it was men v boys and 5 nil would have been a fairer reflection of the play,the only positive I had was of relegation,but out of the doom n'gloom of a long bloody dark tunnel emerged Nathan Baker as CB ,a performance redolent of the debuts of Cahill and in ancient times Sleeuwenhoek. Clark's dismissal was not costly but beneficial. The substitutions of Bannan,totally ineffective again,Herd,played out of position,and Fonz earlier saw better performances from Holman,Lichaj and Weimann.
If Weimann had scored ,instead of hitting the post,from Holman's astute pass, then Holman's final run and shot,instead of passing to Bent to tap in,would have been very dramatic. 10 men remember.
Also ,encouraging was KEA,who when he sat deeper ,was outstanding and a very good performance from Vlaar.
This is what we were saying on the way home - we could have drawn a game that should have been over after 60 minutes had Everton taken their chances and baker not excelled - wonder if the reality check is more important than a point though?
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Stick to the positives , KEA settling in steadily & Nathan Baker looks a very good CB in the making. Let's build from this.
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Clearly we have a problem in defence so why did the management let the versatile Cuellar go and now I believe that Dunne might be on his way?
Crazy!
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From Auntie:
But Lambert hinted he may bring in more players before the transfer window shuts on 31 August.
"Owner Randy Lerner, myself and chief executive Paul Faulkner will sit and see what's going to happen," the Scot said.
"If something comes available and I think it's worthwhile, then you can look at it.
"It's a really young side and sometimes you need a little bit of help."
They should have sat round a table with a Lambrini at least 2 months ago to sort out the mess we are in .
Images of Randy saying to PL, "You can look Paul, but you musn't touch, OK?"
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From Auntie:
But Lambert hinted he may bring in more players before the transfer window shuts on 31 August.
"Owner Randy Lerner, myself and chief executive Paul Faulkner will sit and see what's going to happen," the Scot said.
"If something comes available and I think it's worthwhile, then you can look at it.
"It's a really young side and sometimes you need a little bit of help."
They should have sat round a table with a Lambrini at least 2 months ago to sort out the mess we are in .
You'd think so, but Faulkner and Lerner couldn't organise a 2 car funeral.
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From Auntie:
But Lambert hinted he may bring in more players before the transfer window shuts on 31 August.
"Owner Randy Lerner, myself and chief executive Paul Faulkner will sit and see what's going to happen," the Scot said.
"If something comes available and I think it's worthwhile, then you can look at it.
"It's a really young side and sometimes you need a little bit of help."
They should have sat round a table with a Lambrini at least 2 months ago to sort out the mess we are in .
So before he'd seen his team play he should have sorted out the mess we're apparently in.
He will have learnt more about his players in the 2 competitive games we've played than he will from all the pre-season kick about games and training sessions put together. If he's the manager most of us think he is then he will now know what the priorities are and try to do something about it this week. Those expecting all of the issues to be dealt with in one transfer window, however, are probably going to be disappointed.
The squad we have isn't terrible, most of them will have a part to play as the season progresses, but at the moment the blend isn't quite right. A couple of fresh signings, unavailable players returning and things should look very different in a few weeks time.
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Very worrying times ahead I'm afraid. This has all the hallmarks of 1986 written all over it. A squad that has been reduced to the bare bones and an owner who clearly can't see the writing on the wall. Without investment this will be the year we drop through the relegation trap door. I'd like Mr Lerner to prove me wrong, but I get the impression that he's not interested anymore and is trying to reduce the wage bill even further in order to make the club more attractive to potential buyers. I suspect Mr Lerner will not be our owner for much longer. What division we are playing in next season depends on what investment is made this week and in January. No investment and we're down. The youth are just not good enough at this level.
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The blend of youth and experience is wrong. The prime mover appears to have been to move experience out, because it costs (some on big contracts) or has been faltering. But above that, it's losing quality and it not being replaced by what we've got in or have produced from the youth system. N'Zogbia is not Young; Bannan is not Barry (or even Reo Coker at the moment and probably never will be), and Ireland is not Milner (or has not had much chance yet so show he might be). No time to panic yet as I hope the new signings will find their feet and Lambert gets the green light to bring in a couple more, even a loan signing or two.
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I knew it would turn out bad the second I saw that stupid flame thing as the players came out.
I know, pathetic wasn't it. The embarrassing thing is that someone at the club has suggested this and others have agreed - surely someone somewhere down the line of command must have questioned it.
Next will be Blur's "Song 2" when/if we score.
I was told it was PF's idea, to "enhance the matchday experience".
Are we playing American football? No, so feck off with the flame thing then Faulkner. You could simply enhance the matchday experience by getting the Yank to back his new manager. Feck me, give Lambert the cash that you gave Pubehead and we will win the fecking premier league never mind finishing mid-table and thinking it was a succesful season. Get a bloody grip at Villa will you and stop trying to fuck us up!! Many thanks. Oh ,and for fecksake,please dont think of having hotdog sellers walking up and down the steps all the time like was tried for a brief period when the Yank took the helm. We are not American, we are British so show us a bit less of your Yanky shite and some more hard British Pounds. Many thanks again. Oh, and...................................Fecking cash please!!!
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Well thats Everton out of the way....next Sunday.. Newcastle....Paul Cannell!!
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Can't think of anything that hasn't been said since the mauling by Everton (who look a decent team)..............
Strong belief that to enjoy success we will have to endure days like last Saturday - my hope is that the bad days don't get worse.
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Everton as good as I have seen them in years. Good news for us, our new signings looked our best players, KEA grew into his position, Vlaar did a pretty good job, Lowton looked confident and Holman was buzzing around like an angry wasp. Delfounso remains deceptively slow, bad in the air, over confident and terrible at finding his own team mates with passes. Bannan remains overconfident, too slow and too light weight. Nzogbia is every bit as disappointing as Ireland was in the same number of games played. Liked Baker, still like Herds attitude and tackling, playing him on the wing is tough, thought Clark had an ok day but was done for pace, and in the end the sending off didnt really affect the result. Bent needs to do a better job of playing off the last man, I suggest watching Jellybitch's first half perfomance. He doesnt give enough options. Given, nothing to see here.