Aston Villa v Everton Post-Match Thread

[PaulWinch again]

There's a lot of excuses for the younger players here, but to be honest a lot of them have had plenty of time and mentors or not if they were going to make it they would have stepped up by now.

[pauliewalnuts]

There's a lot of excuses for the younger players here, but to be honest a lot of them have had plenty of time and mentors or not if they were going to make it they would have stepped up by now.

Some of them, who have had fewer chances, have done quite well - Weimann and Herd. Baker, too, recently.

Others seem to have been around for a fair while now and either not forced their way into contention, or when they have, have disappointed.

Two years ago Bannan and Jonathan Hogg started in the middle for us at home to Man United. Hogg is gone, but since then, has Bannan really shown any sign of decent improvement?

Delfouneso was getting games when O'Neill was here. I've seen absolutely nothing from him that makes me think he's got what it takes. He went on loan, and showed nothing at a lower level.

I don't like writing anyone off, but I think some people just look for excuses wherever to spin it out another year, when we're really just going to have to come to terms with the fact that some of these kids not only don't have what it takes, but they're not actually kids anymore.

The other thing is that the powers that be seem to think that the best course of action for us is to rely - not just use, but rely on - these kids, and only occasionally invest in experienced players, in some kind of forlorn hope that we're going to take the Ajax model.

That's a course of action which is doomed right from the start, for a number of reasons, so god help us.

[PaulWinch again]

There's a lot of excuses for the younger players here, but to be honest a lot of them have had plenty of time and mentors or not if they were going to make it they would have stepped up by now.

Some of them, who have had fewer chances, have done quite well - Weimann and Herd. Baker, too, recently.

Others seem to have been around for a fair while now and either not forced their way into contention, or when they have, have disappointed.

Two years ago Bannan and Jonathan Hogg started in the middle for us at home to Man United. Hogg is gone, but since then, has Bannan really shown any sign of decent improvement?

Delfouneso was getting games when O'Neill was here. I've seen absolutely nothing from him that makes me think he's got what it takes. He went on loan, and showed nothing at a lower level.

I don't like writing anyone off, but I think some people just look for excuses wherever to spin it out another year, when we're really just going to have to come to terms with the fact that some of these kids not only don't have what it takes, but they're not actually kids anymore.

The other thing is that the powers that be seem to think that the best course of action for us is to rely - not just use, but rely on - these kids, and only occasionally invest in experienced players, in some kind of forlorn hope that we're going to take the Ajax model.

That's a course of action which is doomed right from the start, for a number of reasons, so god help us.

Absolutely I'm not saying they are all hopeless, but some of them frankly are never going to make it. Bannan, Delfouneso and probably Albrighton come to mind.

[hipkiss92]

Terrible.

If anyone was in any doubt of the need to strengthen the squad and didn't see that, they should watch that playback of that match on Sky tonight.

Moyes has put together a good squad and side over years, and Everton look better than I've seen them for a while, but we made it so very easy for them. The first half was as embarassing to watch as anything last season. It was just dire, we didn't string two passes together, and 0-3 flattered us.

Slight improvement the last ten minutes or so, but Everton had taken their foot off the gas, and it was all much too late.

Given gave another hint it might be Guzan time soon. Vlaar looked ok. Clark looked poor. Lowton did ok. Baker was our best performer, I thought.

The entire front six looked piss poor. N'Zogbia looks more and more like a waste of money, Bannan spent his time playing 60 yard passes to nobody, KEA looked withdrawn and overawed, and Herd looked like a passenger. Bent spent the game in a different post code again, and Delfouneso contributed absolutely nothing.

Early days yet, but i fear Lambert has a huge job on his hands. Our squad is made up of coasting established pros who don't seem to care too much, young kids who (for the main part) have failed to show anything like the promise we thought they would, and players who just are not good enough.

If Lerner thinks he doesn't need to spend, he's kidding himself.

A few tiny positives. Weimann looked lively and was unlucky not to score, KEA came into the match more and scored a belter, Baker looks more and more promising, and that's it.

None of the possession football we saw last week, it was a brutal reminder of just how poor we are.

I'd add Lowton on to the list of positives, as good as performance by a Villa right back over the last five years or so, even with Hutton being the previous holder of the position.

[Monty]

Bannan I'd say has actually gone backwards. He seemed to have some youthful spirit a couple of years ago, but he just looks like he's got no ideas out there. Might have no options either, but his only idea seems to whack one sixty yards and hopefully win a throw. It's a shame.

[Matt Collins]

I tend to agree. But it is yet again a case o sticking 5 of them in he same side. Remember under dol, Cahill, ridgewell and Davis often struggled yet all ended up making it. I don't think bannan, herd and fonz are likely to make it. But I also don't think we're giving weimann, Clark, baker the best of chances at the moment

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

I am past angry, angry is what I felt after the Bolton defeat last season and the Sunderland defeat the season before.
We have flirted with relegation for the last two seasons as our squad quality has gradually weakened and weakened. We have won just one league game out of our last 18.

The overall quality is now at its weakest for many a long year. Everton are a fair to middling standard premier team and the gap between what they showed and what we were capable of was enormous. We didn't even win a corner until the 90th minute. It could easily have been a 5 or 6 goal drubbing today, and I think at times this season we shall suffer some of those.

I am by nature an optimist, but I see absolutely nothing to stop me concluding that the chickens will come home to roost this season and we will be relegated. The ability of our players is simply not good enough to compete at this level  any more.
There are very few players in our squad that any other premier clubs would find of much use. They are mostly championship level, and that (with the exception of Bent who will leave mid season when we are probably rooted to the bottom) is where most of them will be next season.

The way I feel at the moment, it wont even be a relegation struggle or last day tears - we will go down Wolves style.



VILLA TILL I DIE.

[Toronto Villa]

I do wonder sometimes about our academy. Are we developing players to excel at that level, or should they be developed for the level they aim to get to? Too many promising players have come through our ranks over the years that have done very little or significance in the game. I'm trying tlo the think of the last one to have really made it with us. Even Barry was an acquisition. We seem to do really well at youth level then the players never quite make it.

[MarkM]

Midfield was weak, why Lambert played Bannan in the middle is beyond me, he got pushed around all game.

Our forward play was absent, Bent is a passenger at the moment and one we can ill afford.

Given was poor and gave away the second goal.

We really need to add to the squad, the way it is at the moment has bottom six written all over it

[Dan England]

Also, the clowns booing the team at half time were far more embarrassing than any element of that performance.

Why clowns? If I'd performed as badly at my job as the team did today and for the previous 12 games I would be joining the dole queue.  My season ticket and watching Villa takes a large chunk of my hard earned (which is less in a year than the clowns on the pitch earn in a week) if I want to boo I'll boo, it doesn't make me clown, particularly when I've paid for the right to do it.

Oh and by the way I didn't boo today but object to people dictating how others should express their dissatisfaction.

[SoccerHQ]

Yes this will definitely be a wake up call for lambert. I don't think Clark had a shocker. Which of the goals were his fault? It was relentless pressure and no protection from midfield

The 3rd goal was his fault.  Watch the replay, simple bit of movement from Jelavic and Clark is just stood ball watching.  And he got sent off because he switched off again.  I have long not been sure of Clark as a centre back, I just don't trust us to keep a clean sheet when he plays.  I think he is a very decent footballer but I am not sure where he would slot in at the moment with his complete lack of pace.

I think Bannan is getting a slightly rough deal on here but he like all are youngsters just have very little experience of winning.  I would like to see the stats for some of them in terms of win, losses and draws - to me they look like they are just happy to be playing.  There is no winning instinct amongst them.

We are desperately one paced and lacking leadership.  There was a short corner in the 2nd half where we made the amateur error of not sending a second man out, allowing them to walk the ball into our box.  I watched afterwards and all the players just turned and walked off.  Someone should be getting a bollocking for that but there was no sign of it.

The worrying thing is that it does not look like problems which management and coaching can fix.  It's the basics like controlling the ball, following a man which isn't there.  We don't look like a side who simply needs to get used to a new system.  We look like a side who needs to get used to playing football.

I agree with this. However, I think Delph should really have been starting today, and going two up front against Everton's midfield with Bannan and El Ahmadi as our only central presence was pretty suicidal.

As far as I could see it wasn't 4-4-2 as some bloke was impersonating a footballer on the right touchline called Delfeounso.

[CJ]

Most of what I was going to say has been said.  That was truly awful and shows that we probably have the worst squad in the PL.  How many of that squad would get into another PL team?  Very few, if any. Fringe 'kids' from last season now form the bulk of the team and they're either not ready yet or simply not good enough - Bannan and Fonz being prime examples. Vlaar and KEA will be fine when they settle into the pace of the prem but other senior players need to look at themselves - N'Zogbia in particular; and Ireland surely has to wonder why he stayed on the bench while inexperience and youth was substituted three times by more inexperience and youth ahead of him.

We carry no real threat - 44 minutes before a shot, and God knows how long before we got our one and only corner. Paul Lambert is a great manager but he needs better players to work with, and I think if we stay up this season he'll really succeed here. But I really fear that if Randy doesn't spend, that squad will be playing in the Championship next season. 

[Ron Manager]

There's a lot of excuses for the younger players here, but to be honest a lot of them have had plenty of time and mentors or not if they were going to make it they would have stepped up by now.

Some of them, who have had fewer chances, have done quite well - Weimann and Herd. Baker, too, recently.

Others seem to have been around for a fair while now and either not forced their way into contention, or when they have, have disappointed.

Two years ago Bannan and Jonathan Hogg started in the middle for us at home to Man United. Hogg is gone, but since then, has Bannan really shown any sign of decent improvement?

Delfouneso was getting games when O'Neill was here. I've seen absolutely nothing from him that makes me think he's got what it takes. He went on loan, and showed nothing at a lower level.

I don't like writing anyone off, but I think some people just look for excuses wherever to spin it out another year, when we're really just going to have to come to terms with the fact that some of these kids not only don't have what it takes, but they're not actually kids anymore.

The other thing is that the powers that be seem to think that the best course of action for us is to rely - not just use, but rely on - these kids, and only occasionally invest in experienced players, in some kind of forlorn hope that we're going to take the Ajax model.

That's a course of action which is doomed right from the start, for a number of reasons, so god help us.

Absolutely I'm not saying they are all hopeless, but some of them frankly are never going to make it. Bannan, Delfouneso and probably Albrighton come to mind.

But Albrighton did make it and for some strange reason regressed backwards. Still hopeful on him. On reflection I think the manager wants to see the players in a EPL game. I doubt if we shall see Bannan/Delfouneso/ CNZ for very much longer. The manager knows now what they can do which is in effect very little. He also will have observed that Nathan Baker could very well make finding a centre back a lesser priority.
Clark as I said this morning will never make a centre back (although Mr Lambert thinks he will) but he could make a top rate defensive midfielder.
One things for sure next week is going to be very interesting on the transfer front. I predict Stephen Ireland will be moved on to bring funds in.

[Salsa Party Animal]

I been to Villa Park and watched my first match live since end of 2010-11 season. New players, New management, new kit, new season. Same old crap football But a decent goal from El Ahmad

We were lacking experience, as there is lot of young and foreign players which means not many Premier League experienced players apart from Bent and Given. Everton is very experienced team and got lot of strength and power which is too much for our team.

I didn't enjoy the game at all. The view (North Stand lower front row behind the goal) is not right for me as you can't tell how the game develop that easily. I normally sit in Doug Ellis Upper almost the middle.

But it is nice to see the two Dave today. (Cooper and Woodall)

I don't think I will be coming back to Villa Park in a hurry.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

As far as I could see it wasn't 4-4-2 as some bloke was impersonating a footballer on the right touchline called Delfeounso.

First half we played 4-3-1.

Delfouneso is another Luke Moore. N'Zogbia is another Stephen Ireland.