Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Richie on April 29, 2012, 11:24:38 AM
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This is a plea to all genuine Villa fans who want to see us survive this season, please don't get involved in the planned protest against McLeish next week.
At home, we are a team playing with virtually zero confidence and without doubt we need a rocking Villa Park getting behind the team against Spurs.
After watching the spirited performance yesterday, I genuinely think we can pick up at least one win in these last 2 games. Spurs haven't been great for the last couple of months and Norwich have lost the last 3. We looked much better with some more experienced players back in the team.
Like I dare say many others, I've been lying in bed this morning worried sick about the Chelsea - QPR result.
Fingers crossed, Chelsea can do us a favour. However, it would be great to do ourselves a favour and finish the job without having to rely on other teams losing.
Protesting against the Manager pre-match or during the match is only helping our rivals in the bottom 6. It certainly isn't going to help the Villa.
Whoever is organising this protest, please cancel your plans.
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Or save it for after the game.
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Agreed...get behind the team!!
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I've written an article for the H&V due out on the Spurs game which says pretty much this. I fully agree.
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Bearing in mind he'll more than likely not be here next season anyway, it would be a pointless protest, but if they insist on getting the bedsheets out, after the game is best.
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I don't, one win in 14 games or whatever proves that whatever the fans do or don't do has a pretty negligible effect on the outcome of games. That arse McLeish couldn't even be bothered to get out of his seat yesterday. It's quite possible to support the team AND give the manager a rollicking.
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I don't, one win in 14 games or whatever proves that whatever the fans do or don't do has a pretty negligible effect on the outcome of games. That arse McLeish couldn't even be bothered to get out of his seat yesterday. It's quite possible to support the team AND give the manager a rollicking.
At the moment, he is that young team's 'mentor' and source of inspiration, if you will. How do you think having 30,000 people screaming abuse about how shit he is will help our cause? It'll only create a negative atmosphere that's going to make the likes of Herd, Lichaj, and Weimann nervous.
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I have a feeling he wont be in charge anyway. Just a feeling.
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I don't, one win in 14 games or whatever proves that whatever the fans do or don't do has a pretty negligible effect on the outcome of games. That arse McLeish couldn't even be bothered to get out of his seat yesterday. It's quite possible to support the team AND give the manager a rollicking.
what a load of arse, the fans yesterday gave no credence to mcleish at all and the support was amazing, we treated him as a ghost! any noise to be made should be positive towards the team and leave mcleish out of it. he is history!
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I have a feeling he wont be in charge anyway. Just a feeling.
I have the same feeling.
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I have a feeling he wont be in charge anyway. Just a feeling.
It's an interesting thought. He's said that he won't walk away but after the abuse he got against Bolton, i wonder if the club will want to put him through it again. If QPR and Blackburn win today, it might taken out of his hands.
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I know one or two players they know how shit he is.. He will mutally agree to leave by end of 18th May if not before.
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I don't, one win in 14 games or whatever proves that whatever the fans do or don't do has a pretty negligible effect on the outcome of games. That arse McLeish couldn't even be bothered to get out of his seat yesterday. It's quite possible to support the team AND give the manager a rollicking.
How does that work then?
'Sack McLeish, my lord, Sack McLeish
'But not the team my lord, not the team'
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I don't, one win in 14 games or whatever proves that whatever the fans do or don't do has a pretty negligible effect on the outcome of games. That arse McLeish couldn't even be bothered to get out of his seat yesterday. It's quite possible to support the team AND give the manager a rollicking.
No it isn't possible to do both. I suggest anyone who wants to turn up and boo stay away from the match it's detrimental to the team (unless of course you want the team to lose). I thought Eck sitting on the bench yesterday was very magnanimous of him. He didn't want to draw any negative reaction. Having a go at him for doing this just goes to show he can't win either way in some supporters eyes. He may be out of his depth here but I have never doubted that he is a genuine bloke.
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I don't, one win in 14 games or whatever proves that whatever the fans do or don't do has a pretty negligible effect on the outcome of games. That arse McLeish couldn't even be bothered to get out of his seat yesterday. It's quite possible to support the team AND give the manager a rollicking.
At the moment, he is that young team's 'mentor' and source of inspiration, if you will. How do you think having 30,000 people screaming abuse about how shit he is will help our cause? It'll only create a negative atmosphere that's going to make the likes of Herd, Lichaj, and Weimann nervous.
I'm sure 99% of fans will go to any game to 'get behind the team'. But if we are losing 3-0 at half time I doubt many will politely applaud them off.
I am in two minds about any protest though. You do think support should be 100% until we are out of the mire. However I also think talk of the managers departure are a little premature. As such fans need to still register their displeasure as I have a feeling that RL, well PF, will hope we avoid relegation, chuck a bit of money at the squad, keep talking about 'rebuildng' and hope the disquiet subsides.
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I don't, one win in 14 games or whatever proves that whatever the fans do or don't do has a pretty negligible effect on the outcome of games. That arse McLeish couldn't even be bothered to get out of his seat yesterday. It's quite possible to support the team AND give the manager a rollicking.
No it isn't possible to do both. I suggest anyone who wants to turn up and boo stay away from the match it's detrimental to the team (unless of course you want the team to lose). I thought Eck sitting on the bench yesterday was very magnanimous of him. He didn't want to draw any negative reaction. Having a go at him for doing this just goes to show he can't win either way in some supporters eyes. He may be out of his depth here but I have never doubted that he is a genuine bloke.
Spot on.
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The support at home this season has been poor, in main because we've been poor.
The only thing Villa fans agree on is AM should leave. If that brings the fans together and produces a giant chorus from the Holte (and beyond) about sacking AM then so be it. The players must be aware we blame it, mostly, on AM that we're in this situation. If chanting for AM to leave creates an atmosphere then let's do it. Let the players know we really care, because it's clear they don't care what AM thinks. Who knows, singing a chorus or five of "sack McLeish m'lord" may lead on to a chorus of "Gabby, Gabby, Gabby...", which then may lead to a chorus of "the bells are ringing...", which may lead to us inspiring the team on to victory.
Just a thought.
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This is why this decision should be taken out of the fans' hands by Lerner.
it is abundantly clear McLeish has no future here, I would guess that the spirit shown yesterday came from the players themselves and I am sure that the McLeish issue can only detract from any attempt to WIN one of the next 2 games(which I'm sure we will need to do )Kevin Mac and Sid are as much mentors of the academy players as anyone ,but to ensure a united and rocking Villa Park McLeish needs to be no closer than Glasgow at the very least.
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The Villa crowd isn't stupid. It wasn't until the Bolton game was effectively over that McLeish heard his name ring out.
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That arse McLeish couldn't even be bothered to get out of his seat yesterday.
I listened to the football phone in with Tom Ross yesterday and that was bought up.
He, and the pundits with him, reckon it was possible he didn't get out of his seat so the supporters focused on the team and the game rather than focus abuse at him.
Interesting point!
He also made the point, which I've mentioned many times, that there comes a point where you can't blame the manager.
Last season we struggled, even with the likes of Young and Downing, we managed to flatter ourselves with a bit of a run at the end. This, in my opinion, only papered over the cracks.
AMcL came in, after 2 or 3 had told us 'No way', lost our 2 best players, and with it Bents supply line, had to sell experienced players, such as ReoCoker, another player we've missed and not replaced for like.
He was dealt a s**t hand and told to 'Bluff it' for the season.
It hasn't worked.
Yes, some of it IS down to him, but also the players and, more so, the owners have to look at themselves too.
We could have had anyone in charge and they would have struggled this season.
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The Villa crowd isn't stupid. It wasn't until the Bolton game was effectively over that McLeish heard his name ring out.
This is true the fans have either been too passive or very tolerant and given the performances this season McLeish has had a much easier ride than Houllier did,but why take the chance of distracting the fans by keeping him there ?
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In my experience, pleas to protest or to stop a large body of fans reacting as they see fit is like pissing in the wind.
With a few exceptions, it's nigh on impossible to manipulate the spontaneous reactions of the support on the day. Things like the Muamba and Stan tributes are a bit different, as they appeal to peoples better instincts. And nobody wants to be seen to be the odd one out.
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Save it for the lap of appreciation after the game. If there is one. McLeish might be up the road by then anyway.
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I don't, one win in 14 games or whatever proves that whatever the fans do or don't do has a pretty negligible effect on the outcome of games. That arse McLeish couldn't even be bothered to get out of his seat yesterday. It's quite possible to support the team AND give the manager a rollicking.
No it isn't possible to do both. I suggest anyone who wants to turn up and boo stay away from the match it's detrimental to the team (unless of course you want the team to lose). I thought Eck sitting on the bench yesterday was very magnanimous of him. He didn't want to draw any negative reaction. Having a go at him for doing this just goes to show he can't win either way in some supporters eyes. He may be out of his depth here but I have never doubted that he is a genuine bloke.
I agree. I think he made the right call to remain seated and to keep a low profile and I'm pretty sure he will do the same v Spurs (maybe a seat in the stands whilst KMcD/Sid take the bench).
I noticed, before the match, that he wasn't too pleased with the TV crews filming him and he tried to palm one away, which suggests he is feeling the pressure. Keeping a low profile is what he needs to do now. He's a decent guy, no doubt about it, but just not the right fit for us.
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I agree. I think he made the right call to remain seated and to keep a low profile and I'm pretty sure he will do the same v Spurs (maybe a seat in the stands whilst KMcD/Sid take the bench).
He would have to be a very brave guy to sit in the stand..!!
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Whatever the situation, the coward is still being paid (a fortune) to manage the team, and sitting on his arse for the 90 minutes because he was too scared to get into the technical area isn't doing his job.
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I totally disagree that anyone could have been in charge this season and we would have performed as badly. KMac and Sid who are father figures to the young players who have fought tooth and nail to give us a chance to stay in the Premiership were subjected to our board's look-at-us-we-are-headless-chickens party piece after Carew picked up the ball at St James Park and blasted a penalty into the stands and we got tanked six nil playing three up front away from home.
I believe McLeish is gone but I shall always remember him as the most schizophrenic manager I have ever seen. At one in the same time he is a very decent worthy man, confident in his manner, sure in his conduct, composed when dealing with the media who completely goes to pieces when attempting to use the same qualities of judgement and calm composure when dealing with even the most basic demands of team management. His period in charge of Villa has been tragic. (Paul Faulkner please note, completely avoidable).
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there is no point,
he's on his way out anyway.
Mcleish is no more
he has ceased to be
he has expired
if you hadnt nailed him in the dug out he would be shopping at sainsbury's
this is an Ex Manager
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The Villa crowd isn't stupid. It wasn't until the Bolton game was effectively over that McLeish heard his name ring out.
I could have done without the use of the word "genuine" from the OP.
Basically I agree with the sentiment and think this would happen anyway.
On Tuesday it was 4 minutes form full-time when the dam broke (and I joined in after a season of frustration) - it went on for about 4/5 minutes and then a rousing "Villa, Villa, Villa" rang out - we aren't stupid you know...
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I have a feeling he wont be in charge anyway. Just a feeling.
I have the same feeling.Something tells me he may be gone before the next game.
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I have a feeling he wont be in charge anyway. Just a feeling.
If I only, but I can't see it.
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I have a feeling he wont be in charge anyway. Just a feeling.
I have the same feeling.Something tells me he may be gone before the next game.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9npUEtSLvK4/TazMVPf7jZI/AAAAAAAAATI/v9-tGqUGbnk/s1600/worst-lp-can-i-borrow-a-feeling-w.jpg)
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Whatever the situation, the coward is still being paid (a fortune) to manage the team, and sitting on his arse for the 90 minutes because he was too scared to get into the technical area isn't doing his job.
I agree - whats the point of him staying as manager if he can`t or wont move from the dugout?
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We haven't protested all season and look where it got us.
You want us to protest when we have been relegated and it's too late?
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He wont be with us much longer so a protest is a waste of time.It would be more effective to just ignore the clown and pretend he isn't even there.
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Never got off his arse yesterday I think he knows his gone
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Ive heard press conference at 4pm today hes gone so protest wont be necessary. Fingers crossed.
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Ive heard press conference at 4pm today hes gone so protest wont be necessary. Fingers crossed.
On a Sunday? As much as I'd be delighted, I severely doubt it.
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Ive heard press conference at 4pm today hes gone so protest wont be necessary. Fingers crossed.
Where did you hear that?
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I thought Eck sitting on the bench yesterday was very magnanimous of him. He didn't want to draw any negative reaction. Having a go at him for doing this just goes to show he can't win either way in some supporters eyes. He may be out of his depth here but I have never doubted that he is a genuine bloke.
How is sitting on the bench being magnanimous?
Whoa has doubted that McLeish is not a bloke?
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Ive heard press conference at 4pm today hes gone so protest wont be necessary. Fingers crossed.
On a Sunday? As much as I'd be delighted, I severely doubt it.
Wasn't McLeish's appointment announced on a Sunday?
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Ive heard press conference at 4pm today hes gone so protest wont be necessary. Fingers crossed.
Where did you hear that?
Is that true or complete bollox?
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Ive heard press conference at 4pm today hes gone so protest wont be necessary. Fingers crossed.
If that was true the journos would have it all over twitter by now.
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Ive heard press conference at 4pm today hes gone so protest wont be necessary. Fingers crossed.
Where did you hear that?
In all fairness mate I'd take it with a pinch of salt for now. A friend of mine who runs a supporters coach text me earlier but im unsure who his source is. We'll see.
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Ive heard press conference at 4pm today hes gone so protest wont be necessary. Fingers crossed.
On a Sunday? As much as I'd be delighted, I severely doubt it.
Wasn't McLeish's appointment announced on a Sunday?
Can't remember to be honest, the horror since that day all seems to meld into one! But here's hoping he is gone.
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Ive heard press conference at 4pm today hes gone so protest wont be necessary. Fingers crossed.
On a Sunday? As much as I'd be delighted, I severely doubt it.
That was my first thoughts aswell but AVB went on a Sunday so that gave me a glimmer of hope !
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45 mins to go!I still think its bollox though.
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Typical Villa. They tell blokes who run coaches to aways but don't bother telling the Mail's Villa correspondent. Lerner Out.
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45 mins to go!I still think its bollox though.
Probably is mate. Sorry I mentioned it. If it is though, I'm still fairly confident he won't be here for much longer now.
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A journalist from the Mercury grabbed my mates and I outside the ground yesterday asking us to respond to the fact the Eck was told prior to the game that he is finished. He spoke regarding information that Faulkner had passed onto the local press that an announcement was imminent. We responded regarding the announcement and why it was justified but when the paper was released this morning the nature of the article had changed, as had our comments.
I am not surprised by such unconvincing or creative journalism but it may point to where the rumours are coming from that he is leaving imminently.
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He just needs to go.
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A journalist from the Mercury grabbed my mates and I outside the ground yesterday asking us to respond to the fact the Eck was told prior to the game that he is finished. He spoke regarding information that Faulkner had passed onto the local press that an announcement was imminent. We responded regarding the announcement and why it was justified but when the paper was released this morning the nature of the article had changed, as had our comments.
I am not surprised by such unconvincing or creative journalism but it may point to where the rumours are coming from that he is leaving imminently.
Have they touched up the mug shots aswell?
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No, to be fair we are that unattractive!
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No, to be fair we are that unattractive!
I know, your always late back to your seat aswell.
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45 mins to go!I still think its bollox though.
Probably is mate. Sorry I mentioned it. If it is though, I'm still fairly confident he won't be here for much longer now.
No need to be sorry.It's a good laugh.
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No, to be fair we are that unattractive!
I know, your always late back to your seat aswell.
I didnt used to be when Ron was in charge or any other periods in our recent history when the game was worth watching. Besides, I always apologise! ;)
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Maybe all those upset with McLeish should protest outside the ground when there is not a game on, I'm sure they'd have to listen. Maybe outside the Holte steps would be a good place?
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No, to be fair we are that unattractive!
I know, your always late back to your seat aswell.
I didnt used to be when Ron was in charge or any other periods in our recent history when the game was worth watching. Besides, I always apologise! ;)
Just make sure when you meet up before the Spurs game next week you buy the lad that sits next to you a pint.
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No, to be fair we are that unattractive!
I know, your always late back to your seat aswell.
I didnt used to be when Ron was in charge or any other periods in our recent history when the game was worth watching. Besides, I always apologise! ;)
Just make sure when you meet up before the Spurs game next week you buy the lad that sits next to you a pint.
Will do. Not sure he deserves it though!
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Yes get behind him with a size ten boot up the arse and out of villa.
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Yes get behind him with a size ten boot up the arse and out of villa.
Don't be like that just because you're annoyed at this afternoon's results.
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My attitude`s changed about all this, i was one of the he`s ours give him a chance set, but his record, injuries, illnesses, etc` notwithstanding, speaks for itself now. The Spurs game is really the last opportunity for the paying supporters to show the Board that they seriously fucked up, play it by the numbers, stay onside as long as we`re in the game but if it goes tits-up, showtime.
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Yes get behind him with a size ten boot up the arse and out of villa.
We did that at the Bolton game, now we need the points. He's as good as gone, so get behind the team and see this godawful home season over on a high
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Said the last home game was the perfect time for it, but then i wasn't expecting us to still need points.So nah. If the club aren't aware of the fan's feelings by now, then the season ticket renewals or lack of them will probably do it.
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My attitude`s changed about all this, i was one of the he`s ours give him a chance set, but his record, injuries, illnesses, etc` notwithstanding, speaks for itself now. The Spurs game is really the last opportunity for the paying supporters to show the Board that they seriously fucked up, play it by the numbers, stay onside as long as we`re in the game but if it goes tits-up, showtime.
Is he to blame for the injuries, illnesses etc?
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When's this protest taking place anyway?
I really can't see the point pre or during the game as the team needs our support. If we see another dire, defensive 90 minutes that ends in defeat then I don't have a problem with people protesting after the game...that's if the club dare do a lap of appreciation.
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Support the team and show some class and integrity. The board are more than aware of how the fans feel, but first things first, Back our players. Any prospective managers/players will not be interested in coming to Villa having watched protests that are of a nasty and personal nature. We will always be here Mcleish wont ..........
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Support the team and show some class and integrity. The board are more than aware of how the fans feel, but first things first, Back our players. Any prospective managers/players will not be interested in coming to Villa having watched protests that are of a nasty and personal nature. We will always be here Mcleish wont ..........
Spot on.
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We need the points but we also need to show how unhappy we are about McLeish being at the helm, support the team but give him hell.
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My attitude`s changed about all this, i was one of the he`s ours give him a chance set, but his record, injuries, illnesses, etc` notwithstanding, speaks for itself now. The Spurs game is really the last opportunity for the paying supporters to show the Board that they seriously fucked up, play it by the numbers, stay onside as long as we`re in the game but if it goes tits-up, showtime.
Is he to blame for the injuries, illnesses etc?
Absolutely not, every club/manager gets them and they shouldn`t be used as an excuse.
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Whatever the situation, the coward is still being paid (a fortune) to manage the team, and sitting on his arse for the 90 minutes because he was too scared to get into the technical area isn't doing his job.
Mcleish can be accused of many things the season but calling him a coward is completly out of order. If he was coward he wouldnt have joined us in the first place knowing he was never going to be welcome here in the first place!
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I can think of two million reasons he might have thought the stick would have been worth it.
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Whatever the situation, the coward is still being paid (a fortune) to manage the team, and sitting on his arse for the 90 minutes because he was too scared to get into the technical area isn't doing his job.
Mcleish can be accused of many things the season but calling him a coward is completly out of order. If he was coward he wouldnt have joined us in the first place knowing he was never going to be welcome here in the first place!
He might be a few thing but, and this is just my opinion, he aint no coward thats for sure.
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I can think of two million reasons he might have thought the stick would have been worth it.
I think he was a wealthy man prior to joining us so I dont think money was the prime reason for joining us, but maybe I am being naive.
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We need the points but we also need to show how unhappy we are about McLeish being at the helm, support the team but give him hell.
Best get behind the DougOut then...
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Spurs played frighteningly brilliantly today, admittedly against a Blackburn team who didn't have one shot on goal all game and looked resigned to their fate. So the chances are they will take us apart like they did at White Hart Lane but instead of admiring their football we will be booing and protesting. I don't think that will come across at all well on MOTD even if we're not likely to be last like we are usually because they will be showing Spurs not Villa and probably edit out as much of the aggro as possible. As someone else said, who would want to stick their head in this lions' den?
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Support the team and show some class and integrity. The board are more than aware of how the fans feel, but first things first, Back our players. Any prospective managers/players will not be interested in coming to Villa having watched protests that are of a nasty and personal nature. We will always be here Mcleish wont ..........
Spot on.
Agree with this.
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Totally agree with getting behind the team and can't see why that can't be done whilst giving McLeish some sh*t. It could be his last game at home and deserves one last F*ck *ff out of Villa Park.
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We need the points but we also need to show how unhappy we are about McLeish being at the helm, support the team but give him hell.
I thought we all did that pretty well on tuesday night...i think the board got the point then.
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Totally agree with getting behind the team and can't see why that can't be done whilst giving McLeish some sh*t. It could be his last game at home and deserves one last F*ck *ff out of Villa Park.
See i'm not sure how that works tbh. How do you aim nasty chants at the manager for 90 minutes and still produce an atmosphere where the players will feel the fans are behind them
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there is no point,
he's on his way out anyway.
Mcleish is no more
he has ceased to be
he has expired
if you hadnt nailed him in the dug out he would be shopping at sainsbury's
this is an Ex Manager
The Glaswegian Blue?
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Spurs played frighteningly brilliantly today, admittedly against a Blackburn team who didn't have one shot on goal all game and looked resigned to their fate. So the chances are they will take us apart like they did at White Hart Lane but instead of admiring their football we will be booing and protesting. I don't think that will come across at all well on MOTD even if we're not likely to be last like we are usually because they will be showing Spurs not Villa and probably edit out as much of the aggro as possible. As someone else said, who would want to stick their head in this lions' den?
Are they now the reincarnation of Brazil 1970 again then? What is now for them, 2 wins in 14 games?
If they were soooo good, they wouldn't have lost dismally at QPR last week.
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Personally i think spurs made hard work of beting an utterly dismal Rovers.I'd hope even with the current team we'll be slightly more of a game for them.
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there is no point,
he's on his way out anyway.
Mcleish is no more
he has ceased to be
he has expired
if you hadnt nailed him in the dug out he would be shopping at sainsbury's
this is an Ex Manager
The Glaswegian Blue?
very good!
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The Spurs result went as well as it could for Villa - Blackburn lost, Spurs didn't get a hatful and the fans still sense they're brittle but untested. This is an ideal opportunity for Villa to sign off against a team playing three games in seven days with the pressure of 4th spot weighing down on them. If we take it as normal to expect Man City to beat QPR a week later, we're out of trouble as of this moment.
But what does this have to do with McLeish? Well, there's no point in a protest as we all expect he's going to get the elbow, and a decent atmosphere could make any fears of relegation moot. Being supportive of the players is not a u-turn from us to the manager. So if there is an organisation of a protest in the offing, I'd rather you let it drop because it won't serve any purpose.
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Ignore McCleish, pretend he's already gone.
Roar us home Villa fans.
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Support the team for 90 mins then give AM all the shit possible as he walks hopefully to the dressing room for the last time.
Sorry not getting off your seat to attempt to give instructions because your worried about a reaction, to me is just
not on, he is at the moment still AVFC's manager and should carry out his duties as normal, if that is not possible, he should do the decent thing and go, before the next match.
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Support the team for 90 mins then give AM all the shit possible as he walks hopefully to the dressing room for the last time.
Sorry not getting off your seat to attempt to give instructions because your worried about a reaction, to me is just
not on, he is at the moment still AVFC's manager and should carry out his duties as normal, if that is not possible, he should do the decent thing and go, before the next match.
It's reckoned that it was done for the good of the team.
It can't do much for the players when all you can hear is abuse towards the manager.
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Just support the lads for the last home game of the season. You never know, the support may lead to a win and safety. Theres no point in protesting as we all know he is good as gone.
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Sorry not getting off your seat to attempt to give instructions because your worried about a reaction, to me is just
not on, he is at the moment still AVFC's manager and should carry out his duties as normal, if that is not possible, he should do the decent thing and go, before the next match.
He may have been a poor manager for us but I don't believe McLeish could be accused of lacking balls or not wanting to do right by his players.
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I totally agree.
Forget protests and forget McLeish, any messages have been received by Lerner by now, so everyone, please, just get behind the team on Sunday.
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Totally agree with getting behind the team and can't see why that can't be done whilst giving McLeish some sh*t. It could be his last game at home and deserves one last F*ck *ff out of Villa Park.
See i'm not sure how that works tbh. How do you aim nasty chants at the manager for 90 minutes and still produce an atmosphere where the players will feel the fans are behind them
It happened at Wigan. 90 minutes of great support for the team, interspersed with the odd quick song letting McLeish know what we thought of him.
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Sorry not getting off your seat to attempt to give instructions because your worried about a reaction, to me is just
not on, he is at the moment still AVFC's manager and should carry out his duties as normal, if that is not possible, he should do the decent thing and go, before the next match.
He may have been a poor manager for us but I don't believe McLeish could be accused of lacking balls or not wanting to do right by his players.
He didn't want a bad atmosphere starting but was hardly likely to put that in print.
If he was a coward, as some have said, he could have gone in the Directors Box.
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I always think that paying money and then protesting isn't that effective. Yes it gets the message across about how many of the fans feel and may tip the balance at the end of the day, but to get the owners to really stand up and take notice, you need to hit them in the wallet, where it really hurts.
That said, until we are mathematically safe then we should go and support the team, but whatever the result for the spurs game, we should make our feelings known. Hopefully the decision has already been made, but we need to make sure.
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I'm really unhappy that the back page is going to say "We Told You So"
That's so cheap and and immature. No wit and nothing but combative.
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FFS why protest before such an important game? Everyone knows he's gone in the Summer and RL knows we don't want him so what's the point?
Support the team.
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FFS why protest before such an important game? Everyone knows he's gone in the Summer and RL knows we don't want him so what's the point?
Support the team.
I think people thinking that are in for a shock. Only keeping up the pressure will ensure he is gone.
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Yep it's definitely not a foregone conclusion that he's gone, even though it should be. Pressure needs to be maintained.
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That advert from MOMS in the Mail frightens me. Nobody like being told "We told you so" Worried it will provoke another siege mentality from the board
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From the Guardian
The problems continue to pile up for Alex McLeish after it emerged that Aston Villa supporters have taken the unprecedented step of paying for an advert on the back page of Saturday's Birmingham Mail expressing discontent to the board about the manager's postion. The advert, which was taken out by members of the Villa Supporter's Group 'My Old Man Said' (MOMS) cost £600 and carries the line "We were really hoping never to say this but... WE TOLD YOU SO". MOMS was formed in the wake of the initial protest against McLeish's appointment last summer and has picked up 3,500 members on Facebook. The group has also been campaigning for a Villa v Celtic charity match for Stilian Petrov, who was diagnosed with leukaemia at the end of March.
A backdrop of more fan dissatisfaction is just about the last thing McLeish needs ahead of Sunday's crucial home game against Tottenham Hotspur and on the back of the unsavoury events off the field earlier this week that saw Chris Herd, James Collins and Fabian Delph involved in a drunken brawl outside a Birmingham nightclub after the club's end-of-season awards ceremony.
McLeish described the latter incident as a "slur on the club" and said that the trio, who have all publicly apologised, "owe the Villa fans a massive performance". It is quite possible, however, that none of them will start against Spurs. Delph has been on the periphery for some time, Collins has only just resumed training after recovering from a groin injury and it would not be a surprise if McLeish felt that Herd should lose his place as well as two weeks' wages. Collins has also been fined a fortnight's money while Delph, who was sober and has claimed that he was acting as a peacemaker, is believed to have been docked a week's pay.
It has been a hugely embarrassing episode for Villa at a time when the club are fighting relegation and emotions are running high among the supporters. "We won't tolerate that kind of behaviour," McLeish said. "It's a slur on the club. I feel for Randy Lerner [the club's owner], for the fans of Aston Villa FC. The players have got to show some respect for themselves and for their profession."
McLeish had a problem with Ben Foster and Colin Doyle 12 months ago, when he was in charge of Birmingham and the club were embroiled in a relegation scrap, although on that occasion the players had been out partying but had not got into any trouble.
He said that he never anticipated for one moment that he would have an issue with the Villa players on Monday night. "There was alcohol in the suite but not on the players' tables. I thought, naively perhaps, that they would all just go home. I left quite early to drive home. I was shocked to hear the news in the morning. I think the expectations were that they wouldn't do it.
"I would have thought they would have seen what happened last year at Birmingham and wouldn't have even thought about going out. It just became unbelievable. They know they have been crazy."
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I'm really unhappy that the back page is going to say "We Told You So"
That's so cheap and and immature. No wit and nothing but combative.
This new generation of protestors do seem to go out of their way to alienate anyone who disagrees with them.
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Sadly, irrespective of any adverts, chanting, leafleting and protests, the only person to get a manager to lose their jobs is the manager themselves.
A poor record speaks for itself.
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I think it's funny they've blown £600 on that.
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I'm more disapointed with the timing of it than the advert itself.
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Having the collective name MOMS adds real gravitas to their message I find. MOMS. MOMS
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Having the collective name MOMS adds real gravitas to their message I find. MOMS. MOMS
Your mom.
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I think the timing is fine.
And a protest to keep the pressure on as ozzjim said has merit.
But the 'we told you so,' nature of the thing is unnecessary. And it would be difficult of them to suggest that where he came from has no bearing on their campaign with a group name like that.
Pan him for the truly horrendous football, the results and the increasing volume of lame and desperate excuses he's trotting out. Linking his unpopularity to his previous club will only result in more 'they never gave him a chance' type guff that Collywobbles and co have been vomiting out.
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I think the timing is fine.
And a protest to keep the pressure on as ozzjim said has merit.
But the 'we told you so,' nature of the thing is unnecessary. And it would be difficult of them to suggest that where he came from has no bearing on their campaign with a group name like that.
Pan him for the truly horrendous football, the results and the increasing volume of lame and desperate excuses he's trotting out. Linking his unpopularity to his previous club will only result in more 'they never gave him a chance' type guff that Collywobbles and co have been vomiting out.
Question one: Is it because of where he came from?
No.
Question two: Where did your name MOMS come from?
A song.
Question three: Would you care to repeat the lyrics of said song?
No further questions m'lud.
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I think the timing is fine.
And a protest to keep the pressure on as ozzjim said has merit.
But the 'we told you so,' nature of the thing is unnecessary. And it would be difficult of them to suggest that where he came from has no bearing on their campaign with a group name like that.
Pan him for the truly horrendous football, the results and the increasing volume of lame and desperate excuses he's trotting out. Linking his unpopularity to his previous club will only result in more 'they never gave him a chance' type guff that Collywobbles and co have been vomiting out.
Question one: Is it because of where he came from?
No.
Question two: Where did your name MOMS come from?
A song.
Question three: Would you care to repeat the lyrics of said song?
No further questions m'lud.
Bears repeating.
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I think it's funny they've blown £600 on that.
Yep, I saw that and thought, is that it? How about a banner saying "Come On You Lions" ?
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Question one: Is it because of where he came from?
No.
Question two: Where did your name MOMS come from?
A song.
Question three: Would you care to repeat the lyrics of said song?
No further questions m'lud.
Yes, and the crazy thing is that there are so many other arguments which would hit home more effectively.
Re McLeish:
- 2 relegations from threee seasons, with a third threatening in four.
- His three outfield-player purchases (including Jenas) have failed to ignite the team.
Re the season:
- Highest number of draws in the division: 33% more than the next team (Sunderland).
- Lowest number of goals-scored in the bottom 6 clubs (and only surpassed by Stoke in the whole division).
- Villa's worst-ever league home record.
- A numbing stlye of football.
- VP crowds down by 9% (I think) this season.
The rational arguments are pretty powerful and have not been well-rehearsed in the media generally and so are worth repeating.
As you say, the MOMS message points back to the tired cliche about McLeish's previous employment.
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Having the collective name MOMS adds real gravitas to their message I find. MOMS. MOMS
Your mom.
"Mom" is leading the protest ?!?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jvb_zWfEPsg/TBDzIesCuQI/AAAAAAAAAvI/uHwM-dnKKBM/s1600/futurama_mom_and_sons.jpg)
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Good luck to the protestors today. I hope they get their message across.
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These protesters make us look so small-time.
Their obsession with Small Heath is just bizarre.
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These protesters make us look so small-time.
Their obsession with Small Heath is just bizarre.
The group running the protest today don't have a Small Heath obsession, they shouldn't be confused with whoever took out that advert.
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These protesters make us look so small-time.
Their obsession with Small Heath is just bizarre.
What he said.
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Ok, fair enough.
That said, I don't see the point of this protest.
Blackburn have spent the entire season protesting against the manager. They're going down.
Wolves got rid of their manager while still in the thick of a relegation battle. They're going down.
Why not wait till the end of the season, when we're safe, to protest? He'll probably be gone then anyway.
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Ok, fair enough.
That said, I don't see the point of this protest.
Blackburn have spent the entire season protesting against the manager. They're going down.
Wolves got rid of their manager while still in the thick of a relegation battle. They're going down.
Why not wait till the end of the season, when we're safe, to protest? He'll probably be gone then anyway.
I guess it's to do with profile, media coverage etc will be higher on matchdays. Fans will be at the game from all over the country anyway and it's a lot more difficult to co-ordinate a protest at a time when there isn't a match on. We are virtually safe and I imagine that anyone protesting will also back the players with full support for the 90 minutes, well unless we are 5-0 down at half time.
Protests haven't helped Blackburn but their fall from grace isn't as dramatic as ours so maybe their owners will take a different view to Lerner, after all each club and situation is different. Have Blackburn just had their worst home season ever? Wolves gambled but couldn't get a manager in which was their downfall.
As for 'he'll probably be gone anyway' many have doubts this will be the case so we have to take the threat of him staying seriously.
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Do you seriously think Lerner doesn't know McLeish is unpopular with the fans?
I think the protest would get MORE coverage in the summer. Sky will have bugger all else to talk about as they cry and sulk about not having the Euro 2012 rights. Nobody will pay the slightest bit of attention to Villa today. Sky will be focussing entirely on the plight of the Manchester clubs.
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Do you seriously think Lerner doesn't know McLeish is unpopular with the fans?
I think the protest would get MORE coverage in the summer. Sky will have bugger all else to talk about as they cry and sulk about not having the Euro 2012 rights. Nobody will pay the slightest bit of attention to Villa today. Sky will be focussing entirely on the plight of the Manchester clubs.
Well from what I've heard he won't be sacked, even if as you say it is obvious the fans aren't happy, so we may as well vent our frustrations and not look back thinking 'I wish we'd protested.' Maybe you are right about the media coverage, it's hard to say, but for me I'd rather protest on a matchday than have to make a separate trip down to Villa Park on a random night in June, so I'm all for it.
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Surely if fans' passions are that high, they will be able to turn up on a non-matchday?
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"Protesting by walking from a pub they were going to be in anyway to a football match they were going to go to anyway" (© Barry Glendenning)
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"Protesting by walking from a pub they were going to be in anyway to a football match they were going to go to anyway" (© Barry Glendenning)
Indeed. Did anything happen?
It’s received zero coverage from FOX in the USA who showed the game live.
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"Protesting by walking from a pub they were going to be in anyway to a football match they were going to go to anyway" (© Barry Glendenning)
Indeed. Did anything happen?
It’s received zero coverage from FOX in the USA who showed the game live.
A few leaflets and a couple of banners at the end of the game by where I was sitting in the Lower Holte.
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Fans were good today.
Couldn't hear any anti-McLeish stuff during the game...just support for the players.
Then he got what he deserved at the final whistle for that second half.
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Fans were good today.
Couldn't hear any anti-McLeish stuff during the game...just support for the players.
Then he got what he deserved at the final whistle for that second half.
Which is how it should be.
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Indeed. Did anything happen?
It’s received zero coverage from FOX in the USA who showed the game live.
Pre-match some banners were strung up on the (boarded up I think) toilets in Trinity Road opposite the statue. There was some half-hearted chanting and some yoofs handing out leaflets.
There were less people there than at the original protest a couple of months back. Although Legion had his full security team in place, we really weren't needed.
When I went into the ground at 13:50 there will still boxes of leaflets left. What a waste of time, money & trees.
Were there any protests elsewhere around the ground ?
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Very impressed with the bloke who walked past me with a load of leaflets and shouted "Fuck yer fucking fanzine, you should be handing out these mate."
I asked him if he was getting paid for handing out leaflets and it stumped him.
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Very impressed with the bloke who walked past me with a load of leaflets and shouted "Fuck yer fucking fanzine, you should be handing out these mate."
I asked him if he was getting paid for handing out leaflets and it stumped him.
The way in which the organisers of these protests have gone out of their way to communicate with fellow supporters who might not share their views has been impressive. Less impressive was the group of young children, some of whom couldn't have been older than nine or ten, who were allowed to hand out leaflets on their own.
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Very impressed with the bloke who walked past me with a load of leaflets and shouted "Fuck yer fucking fanzine, you should be handing out these mate."
I asked him if he was getting paid for handing out leaflets and it stumped him.
Somebody somewhere was paying for those leaflets - there was advertising on them.
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As Mr Sox says, it was very quiet and peaceful. I did enjoy the irony of some of them singing Villa til I Die while stood in front a banner that stated "If McLeish stays, we stay away".
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With about 10/15 mins to go. A supporter over on the Doug Ellis stand came off his seat, walked up to the advertising barrier, said something and then threw his season ticket card into the pitch before storming out.
Did anyone else notice this?
I thought the fans were great today. At no point was the frustration taken out on the players. It was all aimed at McLeish at the final whistle.
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I just hope that Randy isn't fooled by the size of the protest, it was a little embarrassing to be honest. Fair play to those fans for making their opinions known and fair play to the fans inside the ground for cheering on the players, including the totally useless N'Zogbia. I hope Randy realises that, even though the protest was small, many, many Villa fans want the same thing: a Manager who can galvanise the whole club and get us playing more attractive football. I really don't like the personal stuff, against him as a human being, but the facts are simple. Three relegation scraps in four years, a team devoid of ideas and creativity, diminishing gates etc.
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With about 10/15 mins to go. A supporter over on the Doug Ellis stand came off his seat, walked up to the advertising barrier, said something and then threw his season ticket card into the pitch before storming out.
Wow, what a gesture, throwing your ST card onto the pitch at the end of the last home game of the season! That's telling 'em!
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That's what we all said
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With about 10/15 mins to go. A supporter over on the Doug Ellis stand came off his seat, walked up to the advertising barrier, said something and then threw his season ticket card into the pitch before storming out.
Wow, what a gesture, throwing your ST card onto the pitch at the end of the last home game of the season! That's telling 'em!
And that makes our season ok then? Fuck me,I still don't get it!
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He might need it next season we don't always get new ones.
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Well, congratulations to those who asked for no protests and to "get behind the boys" PR spin from the Club. You got your way, only a couple of minutes dissent at the final whistle today and it looks like McLeish is staying. Well done. Perhaps we should start writing our strongly worded letters to Mr Faulkner now? Dont forget to be polite as our beloved Club continues to sink further down the pan.
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Well, congratulations to those who asked for no protests and to "get behind the boys" PR spin from the Club. You got your way, only a couple of minutes dissent at the final whistle today and it looks like McLeish is staying. Well done. Perhaps we should start writing our strongly worded letters to Mr Faulkner now? Dont forget to be polite as our beloved Club continues to sink further down the pan.
You sound disappointed we drew and are safe?
No amount of negativity from the stands would change the attitude of the owner so surely it was good we didn't cut our nose in spite of our face.
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Indeed, a big congratulations to those who got behind the boys. The support today may well have helped get the point that kept us up.
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Of course I'm not disappointed we are safe - I'm taking a view that is bigger than one game. But I don't call it negativity either; I call it having a voice. The Club played a very clever PR card to silence protests because the media were starting to turn against McLeish and they didn't like it. We have "got behind the boys" all season. But, at least without our negativity we can have another season of McLeish, in all likelihood. Leave the negativity on the pitch eh?
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Well, congratulations to those who asked for no protests and to "get behind the boys" PR spin from the Club. You got your way, only a couple of minutes dissent at the final whistle today and it looks like McLeish is staying. Well done. Perhaps we should start writing our strongly worded letters to Mr Faulkner now? Dont forget to be polite as our beloved Club continues to sink further down the pan.
Protest away if it floats your boat.
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Of course I'm not disappointed we are safe - I'm taking a view that is bigger than one game. But I don't call it negativity either; I call it having a voice. The Club played a very clever PR card to silence protests because the media were starting to turn against McLeish and they didn't like it. We have "got behind the boys" all season. But, at least without our negativity we can have another season of McLeish, in all likelihood. Leave the negativity on the pitch eh?
Do you really think that no protest today means another season of AMcl but if there was loud protests today it would have been different? They'll sack him or they won't. A minority of fans shouting abuse today would make no difference. If you think it would you are deluding yourself.
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Well, it doesn't particularly "float my boat" but, looking at the season rather than just one match, is there anything wrong in trying to express disapproval and disappointment, as long as it is civil? It might not change anything, but doing nothing certainly won't.
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Of course I'm not disappointed we are safe - I'm taking a view that is bigger than one game. But I don't call it negativity either; I call it having a voice. The Club played a very clever PR card to silence protests because the media were starting to turn against McLeish and they didn't like it. We have "got behind the boys" all season. But, at least without our negativity we can have another season of McLeish, in all likelihood. Leave the negativity on the pitch eh?
Do you really think that no protest today means another season of AMcl but if there was loud protests today it would have been different? They'll sack him or they won't. A minority of fans shouting abuse today would make no difference. If you think it would you are deluding yourself.
I didn't hear anyone shouting abuse - just protesting. But you're right, one match wouldn't change anything; we should have been protesting much longer. Doing nothing hasn't really worked has it (unless McL is about to go and I am happily wrong)?
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The board will sack McLiesh if they decide he is now incapable of doing his job. Not because a group of fans say they don't want him as manager anymore.
Today was about getting behind the team and making sure we stumble over the finish line.
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The board will sack McLiesh if they decide he is now incapable of doing his job. Not because a group of fans say they don't want him as manager anymore.
Today was about getting behind the team and making sure we stumble over the finish line.
As fans we are also 'customers': plummeting home attendances, possible reductions in season ticket renewals. Voicing discontent in of itself might not impact, but taken in conjunction with these issues then yes, I think protests might help. The notion of learned helplessness - we can't really influence these things - seems to me a bit of a cul de sac.
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I’d be amazed if the club where not aware of the fan’s discontent as they’ve been canvasing ST holders for months now. Ultimately, the combination of the dire football and the reduction in ticket sales next year will be the most significant factor.
The protest will help to an extent but I’d hate for Villa to end up looking like Blackburn, surely there are more humorous ways that could have been adopted?
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EFFDEE said:
"Yes, and the crazy thing is that there are so many other arguments which would hit home more effectively.
Re McLeish:
- 2 relegations from threee seasons, with a third threatening in four.
- His three outfield-player purchases (including Jenas) have failed to ignite the team.
Re the season:
- Highest number of draws in the division: 33% more than the next team (Sunderland).
- Lowest number of goals-scored in the bottom 6 clubs (and only surpassed by Stoke in the whole division).
- Villa's worst-ever league home record.
- A numbing stlye of football.
- VP crowds down by 9% (I think) this season."
Some more for you:-
Total shots - 18th in Prem
Shots on:- 19th !
Goals:- 19th
Possession, Last stat:- 15th 45.1%
Lowest ever Prem points
and remember when Bent was playing he had the least touches of the ball than ANY other prem player.
Who cares where he came from; the stats reflect the boring, turgid, defensive minded, uninspired and cowardly approach that is his hallmark. No wonder he and Grant have alienated the fans and almost relegated us.
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The players have been shite all season, I doubt singing anti-McLeish songs now would make much difference to their performance. Anti-support during the game would atleast have shown how angry we actually are.
Also if Blackburn had sacked their manager much earlier on into the campaign then they would have stood a much better chance of staying up.
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To those making the argument for protesting DURING the game.
Lets go back about 2/3 years when we were half decent and knocking on the door of a Champions league place. Imagine there were a couple of games to go and we had an away game against a team towards the bottom and we want that win to propel us into that magical top 4.
The home fans are either going to:-
1) Make a whole load of noise and encourage their team to stop us.
2) Have protest banners and generally slag off their own team and management.
Which option would we be hoping they go for ?
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Fans were good today.
Couldn't hear any anti-McLeish stuff during the game...just support for the players.
Then he got what he deserved at the final whistle for that second half.
Which is how it should be.
And you'll probably get to do it all over again next season, because the limited support for the protests has probably ensured that the useless lump of a manager will be retained by the useless lump of an owner. I doubt that moron will get the message until there's a virtual riot at VP.
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I was very happy with our support yesterday. We made a lot of noise, got behind the team, and the protests were held off until the final whistle. And as a result, we got that point we so desperately needed, which any club in the country would consider a decent, if not great result.
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To those making the argument for protesting DURING the game.
Lets go back about 2/3 years when we were half decent and knocking on the door of a Champions league place. Imagine there were a couple of games to go and we had an away game against a team towards the bottom and we want that win to propel us into that magical top 4.
The home fans are either going to:-
1) Make a whole load of noise and encourage their team to stop us.
2) Have protest banners and generally slag off their own team and management.
Which option would we be hoping they go for ?
"slag off their own team and management."
Flawed argument - I didn't see anyone advocating slagging off the team.
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I was very happy with our support yesterday. We made a lot of noise, got behind the team, and the protests were held off until the final whistle. And as a result, we got that point we so desperately needed, which any club in the country would consider a decent, if not great result.
Another flawed argument - there is no proof that the point gained was a direct consequence of the fans getting behind the team.
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Of course you can't ever prove that a win, lose or draw is a direct consequence of an atmosphere at a football ground. But surely with a team's confidence as fragile as egg shells, booing the manager all game and being pretty hostile wouldn't not of helped gain the point we needed.
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At the end of the day, if you continue to pay money to the club despite whatever dross they deliver, they will more than likely continue to deliver such dross because they know they have a captive fan base that will support the 'team' whatever the situation and so they can 'get away with it'.
Ultimately for most football club owners football is a business, however they know that they are in an enviable position where they can generally ignore the wishes of its customers because those customers are also supporters to whom it is more than a business and many of them will continue to pay money anyway.
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The 'support' from the crowd yesterday was at it loudest when singing about our neighbours.......again.
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Of course you can't ever prove that a win, lose or draw is a direct consequence of an atmosphere at a football ground. But surely with a team's confidence as fragile as egg shells, booing the manager all game and being pretty hostile wouldn't not of helped gain the point we needed.
Winning, losing or drawing is a direct consequence of goals scored or conceeded, not of crowds cheering or jeering.
It says it all however if we think we have to rely on the crowd to steal a point from a team 1-0 down and a player down.
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I was very happy with our support yesterday. We made a lot of noise, got behind the team, and the protests were held off until the final whistle. And as a result, we got that point we so desperately needed, which any club in the country would consider a decent, if not great result.
Another flawed argument - there is no proof that the point gained was a direct consequence of the fans getting behind the team.
Well we created probably the best home support we've seen all season and got a great result. I know correlation doesn't prove causation but I refuse to believe the two aren't related.
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A point against Spurs "a great result"? You are Alex McLeish and I claim my five pounds.
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It's an oft-quoted argument by the anti-protest lobby, midnite, but there is no way of proving it one way or the other, so why invoke it? And I'm not sure anyone has advocated booing the manager all game. As others have said before, there is no reason why you cannot intersperse vocal support for the the players with vocal criticism of the manager and owner. I'd like to think the players have the brains to tell the difference.
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Well, it doesn't particularly "float my boat" but, looking at the season rather than just one match, is there anything wrong in trying to express disapproval and disappointment, as long as it is civil? It might not change anything, but doing nothing certainly won't.
Not at all, do what you like.
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A point against Spurs "a great result"? You are Alex McLeish and I claim my five pounds.
I know that we could've won the game with the red card and taking the lead etc. But can you really say that you wouldn't have been chuffed with the point before the game? Spurs are one of the best teams in the country, and while we're in the position we find ourselves in, I think it's ridiculous to not be delighted with getting something out of that game.
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A point against Spurs "a great result"? You are Alex McLeish and I claim my five pounds.
I think it was an unexpected result more than anything. For once, it was a welcome point i suppose.
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A point against Spurs "a great result"? You are Alex McLeish and I claim my five pounds.
I think it was an unexpected result more than anything. For once, it was a welcome point i suppose.
Even more welcome AFTER the game:
Possession AV 37%
Shots off Av-1 Spuds 10
Corners AV 4 Spuds 19
Shots on AV 1 Spuds 4
Cue song about only having ten men.
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It's an oft-quoted argument by the anti-protest lobby, midnite, but there is no way of proving it one way or the other, so why invoke it? And I'm not sure anyone has advocated booing the manager all game. As others have said before, there is no reason why you cannot intersperse vocal support for the the players with vocal criticism of the manager and owner. I'd like to think the players have the brains to tell the difference.
Absolutely. And I'm not in the anti protest camp either. I thought the way the villa fans did things yesterday showed we weren't "fickle". Getting behind the team, making sure we kept our premiere league status then letting the board and McLeish know how we feel.
I'm all for carrying it on too at Norwich now we're safe if the fans going to that game feel that's what they want to do.
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Appointing he was a bad mistake but to keep him for another season would truly be a slap in the face for the fans and the players.
Any protest get my backing.
90 mins of "sack McLeish" at Norwich would be a start.
If come the start of the season he is still manager then a total boycott of the home games is a must. Completely empty Holte End would be a message they couldn't ignore.
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Any protest get my backing.
Seriously - what's your opinion of the abuse the Mcleishout mob are giving to anyone who disagrees with them on Twitter & elsewhere?
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Any protest get my backing.
Seriously - what's your opinion of the abuse the Mcleishout mob are giving to anyone who disagrees with them on Twitter & elsewhere?
I believe it is wrong and have never approved of anyone 'shouting down' another. Their feelings are running high as they are frustrated. They can see that the majority of fans want a change of manager and cannot understand why the silent majority are not more vocal.
I am frustrated and at times feel as though I am swimming upstream in that I cannot get to the right person to put my opinions across to.
If I was going to the game next week, I would be joining in with voicing opinion against the manager just like I did on the terraces years ago chanting, "The Board Must Go", "Ellis Out" etc.
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Any protest get my backing.
Seriously - what's your opinion of the abuse the Mcleishout mob are giving to anyone who disagrees with them on Twitter & elsewhere?
I believe it is wrong and have never approved of anyone 'shouting down' another. Their feelings are running high as they are frustrated. They can see that the majority of fans want a change of manager and cannot understand why the silent majority are not more vocal.
I am frustrated and at times feel as though I am swimming upstream in that I cannot get to the right person to put my opinions across to.
If I was going to the game next week, I would be joining in with voicing opinion against the manager just like I did on the terraces years ago chanting, "The Board Must Go", "Ellis Out" etc.
It strikes me as going way beyond not understanding why others don't agree with them. They seem to be downright abusing, if not threatening, anyone with a different opinion. You can't excuse them because they feel frustrated.
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Any protest get my backing.
Seriously - what's your opinion of the abuse the Mcleishout mob are giving to anyone who disagrees with them on Twitter & elsewhere?
I believe it is wrong and have never approved of anyone 'shouting down' another. Their feelings are running high as they are frustrated. They can see that the majority of fans want a change of manager and cannot understand why the silent majority are not more vocal.
I am frustrated and at times feel as though I am swimming upstream in that I cannot get to the right person to put my opinions across to.
If I was going to the game next week, I would be joining in with voicing opinion against the manager just like I did on the terraces years ago chanting, "The Board Must Go", "Ellis Out" etc.
It strikes me as going way beyond not understanding why others don't agree with them. They seem to be downright abusing, if not threatening, anyone with a different opinion. You can't excuse them because they feel frustrated.
Didn't realise it was going to that extent. Twitter is a bit too modern for me. Hell, never thought I would get up to 700 posts on this site.
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The main agenda that Dazzy G or Warley Wobbler (whatever his name is) brought with him when he joined this site was to lay into everyone who did'nt agree with him to the point where he got offensive. It did'nt help his argument in the slightest.
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Giving the leaflets to kids to distribute I thought was well out of order.
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The main agenda that Dazzy G or Warley Wobbler (whatever his name is) brought with him when he joined this site was to lay into everyone who did'nt agree with him to the point where he got offensive. It did'nt help his argument in the slightest.
And he wasn't the only one.
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I would advocate that, now we are essentially safe, we protest throughout the Norwich game against McLeish as manager. Not using personal slurs against him or the team, but instead focusing on his managerial failings. We make our thoughts known clearly so that Faulkner and Lerner at least have our concerns reinforced for one last time before the season closes. Polite emails to Faulkner aren't responded to, people in the shop or ticket office don't need to hear it, and quiet shaking of heads, loud tutting and grumbling as we head back to our cars and coaches aren't heard by anyone. For me, alongside McLeish, the biggest threats to Villa are fan apathy and learned helplessness. I respect anyone who doesn't wish to participate, but being able to say at least we tried to influence, even if it proves unsuccessful, has to count?
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I think if McLeish is going, the decision has already been made and next week won't have the slightest influence on Lerner/Faulkener. It's plain fans aren't happy. The empty seats for a lot of this season speak volumes; as will season ticket renewals. That banner, "it's not where you came from it's where you're taking us" seemed to sum up the feelings of many and is eloquent enough. I've been uncomfortable with some personal abuse McLeish has been getting, and some of it started before he had a chance. He's carried himself well under a lot of stress. His record speaks for itself though and after the last season there needs to be change. He hardly got a ringing vote of confidence after the Bolton game and the way we have staggered over the line suggests he will be "mutually consented" in time honoured Villa fashion. It's all about who we hire (the last two appointments don't fill me in confidence) and whether they will be able to strengthen properly so we don't get a repeat of the last two seasons' dire football and relegation fears.
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Giving the leaflets to kids to distribute I thought was well out of order.
Gwen the quality of teaching in the Midlands, I doubt that the kids could read the leaflets anyway.
There's teachers I know in the area who don't even know where Norwich is. ;D
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Giving the leaflets to kids to distribute I thought was well out of order.
Gwen the quality of teaching in the Midlands, I doubt that the kids could read the leaflets anyway.
There's teachers I know in the area who don't even know where Norwich is. ;D
I told you it's in East Anglia. Please pay closer attention.
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A point against Spurs "a great result"? You are Alex McLeish and I claim my five pounds.
I know that we could've won the game with the red card and taking the lead etc. But can you really say that you wouldn't have been chuffed with the point before the game? Spurs are one of the best teams in the country, and while we're in the position we find ourselves in, I think it's ridiculous to not be delighted with getting something out of that game.
I'd guess most people are happy with the point that more or less guarantees safety but it's the fact we've fallen this low, where we're "delighted" to be getting a point at home to Spurs, even though they were a man down and a goal down for half the game. And they still played us off the park. Doesn't that tell you something about how low Lerner and McLeish have taken us, with barely a peep of protest from the majority of fans? Dribbler is spot on, if you silently accept garbage and turn up for more, you will continually be fed garbage. And you can't say you don't deserve it.
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Any protest get my backing.
Seriously - what's your opinion of the abuse the Mcleishout mob are giving to anyone who disagrees with them on Twitter & elsewhere?
I don't regard Twitter etc as a real protest.
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When the over 18s eventually started handing out the A4 flyers yesterday some of them were rather unpleasant to anyone who refused one or questioned their motives.
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When the over 18s eventually started handing out the A4 flyers yesterday some of them were rather unpleasant to anyone who refused one or questioned their motives.
Oh is that what they were, I refused one although I thought they were for flyers for pizza or betting. The kid didn't say anything to me.
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When the over 18s eventually started handing out the A4 flyers yesterday some of them were rather unpleasant to anyone who refused one or questioned their motives.
Oh is that what they were, I refused one although I thought they were for flyers for pizza or betting. The kid didn't say anything to me.
What did the flyers say?
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Buy one get one free at the Pizza Perfect emporium.
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"And as a result, we got that point we so desperately needed, which any club in the country would consider a decent, if not great result."
we may have survived another defeat but surely it was a case of two points lost again, not just hanging on for a point .. and against ten men?
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When the over 18s eventually started handing out the A4 flyers yesterday some of them were rather unpleasant to anyone who refused one or questioned their motives.
Oh is that what they were, I refused one although I thought they were for flyers for pizza or betting. The kid didn't say anything to me.
What did the flyers say?
It quoted all the stats from this season, fewest home wins etc, said "it's not where you came from, it's where you're taking us", and a big McLeish out. And some fake advert thing on he back, I forget exactly what it said.
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Buy one get one free at the Pizza Perfect emporium.
I would have taken one of those
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When the over 18s eventually started handing out the A4 flyers yesterday some of them were rather unpleasant to anyone who refused one or questioned their motives.
Not being funny Legion, but surely their motives are to apply pressure to get rid of a useless manager. I can see why one might question their methods, but I'd have thought the motives are shared by most fans.
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When the over 18s eventually started handing out the A4 flyers yesterday some of them were rather unpleasant to anyone who refused one or questioned their motives.
Not being funny Legion, but surely their motives are to apply pressure to get rid of a useless manager. I can see why one might question their methods, but I'd have thought the motives are shared by most fans.
Agreed, but for me there is a time and a place for this. Yesterday was not that time. Plus their use of children to hand them out was, for me, out of order. I overheard two ladies have a bit of a go at one of them early on and he just did not know what to say or how to react.
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When would have been the right time and place then?
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After the match and/or at the end of the season.
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What would be the point of giving out leaflets in the street after the match? I thought it was just about right, supportive through the match and the banners et all coming out at the final whistle. No point singing protest songs outside an empty stadium.
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I meant the anti-McLeish protest in general, not the distribution of leaflets.
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The small (ish) chant of Sack McLeish after the game was picked up on SSN today and yesterday, as were the "Eck out" banners. They have their claws in now, hopefully they won't let go.
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supportive through the match and the banners et all coming out at the final whistle.
This I agree with totally.
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The small (ish) chant of Sack McLeish after the game was picked up on SSN today and yesterday, as were the "Eck out" banners. They have their claws in now, hopefully they won't let go.
Wasn't it "We don't want McLeish"? It was hardly small (ish).
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I saw them approaching people handing out leaflets so I chose to buy my H&V mag from Greg - sorry Legion.
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I saw them approaching people handing out leaflets so I chose to buy my H&V mag from Greg - sorry Legion.
Boooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I wholeheartedly support any protest geared to remind the board that we are the paying customer, and we're being sold an absolutely bum deal by their bloody-minded incompetence.
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The small (ish) chant of Sack McLeish after the game was picked up on SSN today and yesterday, as were the "Eck out" banners. They have their claws in now, hopefully they won't let go.
Wasn't it "We don't want McLeish"? It was hardly small (ish).
The second the final whistle went there was a 'Sack McLeish M'lord' chant.
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So most seem to agree that their aims are pretty much shared but it was the 'wrong' people doing the protesting?
Fair play to them, my appetite for protest has well passed, my appetite for a pint saw me depart pretty speedily.
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Any protest get my backing.
Seriously - what's your opinion of the abuse the Mcleishout mob are giving to anyone who disagrees with them on Twitter & elsewhere?
I don't regard Twitter etc as a real protest.
I didn't say it was. What is your opinion of the abuse given out on Twitter to those who didn't take part/agree with them?
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Any protest get my backing.
Seriously - what's your opinion of the abuse the Mcleishout mob are giving to anyone who disagrees with them on Twitter & elsewhere?
I don't regard Twitter etc as a real protest.
I didn't say it was. What is your opinion of the abuse given out on Twitter to those who didn't take part/agree with them?
Don't follow twitter. But abusing fellow villa fans if that's what they did, is wrong. We need a united front to force the required change.
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The main agenda that Dazzy G or Warley Wobbler (whatever his name is) brought with him when he joined this site was to lay into everyone who did'nt agree with him to the point where he got offensive. It did'nt help his argument in the slightest.
This is my main problem.
I'm very keen to see somebody else in charge next season, but then I assume that if such complete dimwits share that opinion I assume that I must have got something wrong.
It's quite disconcerting.
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The main agenda that Dazzy G or Warley Wobbler (whatever his name is) brought with him when he joined this site was to lay into everyone who did'nt agree with him to the point where he got offensive. It did'nt help his argument in the slightest.
This is my main problem.
I'm very keen to see somebody else in charge next season, but then I assume that if such complete dimwits share that opinion I assume that I must have got something wrong.
It's quite disconcerting.
Agreed. Even if I'm sympathetic to a cause, once someone tells me I must agree with them, my natural inclination is to disagree on principle.
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Now that's what you call a protest.
http://www.ultras-tifo.net/photo-news/870-fc-koeln-bayern-munchen-05052012.html
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The main agenda that Dazzy G or Warley Wobbler (whatever his name is) brought with him when he joined this site was to lay into everyone who did'nt agree with him to the point where he got offensive. It did'nt help his argument in the slightest.
This is my main problem.
I'm very keen to see somebody else in charge next season, but then I assume that if such complete dimwits share that opinion I assume that I must have got something wrong.
It's quite disconcerting.
Another way to look at it is that if the average dimwit with his bedsheet can see that McLeish has been a disaster, then the fact that Lerner can't must make Randy very, very, very, very stupid indeed.
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The main agenda that Dazzy G or Warley Wobbler (whatever his name is) brought with him when he joined this site was to lay into everyone who did'nt agree with him to the point where he got offensive. It did'nt help his argument in the slightest.
This is my main problem.
I'm very keen to see somebody else in charge next season, but then I assume that if such complete dimwits share that opinion I assume that I must have got something wrong.
It's quite disconcerting.
Another way to look at it is that if the average dimwit with his bedsheet can see that McLeish has been a disaster, then the fact that Lerner can't must make Randy very, very, very, very stupid indeed.
Yup, I'd say that's perfectly valid. But then the average dimwit with his bedsheet can be seen to protest about all sorts of shit just to make an unnecessary scene.
But I definitely take your point.
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Round of applause for the author of the banner "It's not where you came from, it is where you are taking us" yesterday.
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The main agenda that Dazzy G or Warley Wobbler (whatever his name is) brought with him when he joined this site was to lay into everyone who did'nt agree with him to the point where he got offensive. It did'nt help his argument in the slightest.
This is my main problem.
I'm very keen to see somebody else in charge next season, but then I assume that if such complete dimwits share that opinion I assume that I must have got something wrong.
It's quite disconcerting.
Another way to look at it is that if the average dimwit with his bedsheet can see that McLeish has been a disaster, then the fact that Lerner can't must make Randy very, very, very, very stupid indeed.
Took the words out of my mouth Risso.
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http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/jim-white/blame-venky-not-fans-100119709.html
Interesting take on the Blackburn fans.
Difficult to see how their "getting behind the team" would have made much difference, given the shambolic running of the club.
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Despite standing in Trinity Road within a few yards of the boxes of leaflets for 30 odd minutes, I wasn't even offered one.
However, the discussion I was having with Mr Shin about paper airplanes might have kept them away.
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There weren't many leafllets held up, from what I could see. What a waste of paper.
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In two hours on my corner I saw nobody giving them out, and no more than a handful being carried.
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I thought they printed 20000. Did they leave them on the bus or something?
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In the Lower Holte I saw at least half a dozen leaflets held up at the final whistle. Quite impressive.
By the way, I didn't get one myself so could someone please enlighten me as to what was on the leaflet, and is it true there were adverts on one side?
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I was given a leaflet outside the Aston Hotel and a mate of mine walked in the pub with about 3 in his hand. I did'nt see anything i disagreed with on it.
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In the Lower Holte I saw at least half a dozen leaflets held up at the final whistle. Quite impressive.
I only noticed 3 held up.
I also saw some your before the game trying to pin up a bed sheet in the Swan and Mitre. He tried and tried but it wouldn't stay up. After 5 or so attempts he gave up trying and just draped it over the radiator with the only word visible being 'Eck. Not that anybody cared.
It rather sums up the non event.
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I have no issue with those protesting, they are doing far more than I am to remove McL from the club
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Despite standing in Trinity Road within a few yards of the boxes of leaflets for 30 odd minutes, I wasn't even offered one.
However, the discussion I was having with Mr Shin about paper airplanes might have kept them away.
I saw one held up when McLeish walked to the dug out and one paper airplane come down from the upper trinity to the lower. Never saw anybody giving them out.
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I thought they printed 20000. Did they leave them on the bus or something?
They were boxes full left in Trinity Road when I entered the ground about 13:50. Not sure what happened to them after that.
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I thought they printed 20000. Did they leave them on the bus or something?
They were boxes full left in Trinity Road when I entered the ground about 13:50. Not sure what happened to them after that.
Maybe Leeg will know more as I left him and went in the ground 5 minutes after you and the boxes were all still there.
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Seems that the protest organisers were filled with the same apathy as most of the crowd.
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I thought they printed 20000. Did they leave them on the bus or something?
They were boxes full left in Trinity Road when I entered the ground about 13:50. Not sure what happened to them after that.
I picked them up and have used them to hand craft a giant papier mache phallus which I am taking to St Andrews tonight.
I have been warned by the West Mids Police not to take it too close to the dug out as it'll be mistaken for Ian Holloway.
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I know this is a bit old fashioned but wouldn’t a properly administered petition be a cheap and effective way of getting the fan’s point across. At Norwich there’ll be hmmm 3,000 people max so it would be feasible to ask pretty much every person to sign it.
If you get say 2,500 signatures then it would demonstrate that a huge majority of the important paying customers want “McLeish Out". You then send a copy to the club and a press release to numerous media outlets so it’ll get maximum exposure.
I realise this does not provide the opportunity for much drama and the potential for your banner to get on TV but, if done well, the journalists will lap it up and the club will have received a quantifiable demonstration from the fans i.e. it can no longer be excused as the vocal minority.
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There were loads of leaflets on the deck after the game next to the Occupy the Park vigil.
The text speak on one of the banners was great. Bcuz indeed.
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I know this is a bit old fashioned but wouldn’t a properly administered petition be a cheap and effective way of getting the fan’s point across. At Norwich there’ll be hmmm 3,000 people max so it would be feasible to ask pretty much every person to sign it.
If you get say 2,500 signatures then it would demonstrate that a huge majority of the important paying customers want “McLeish Out". You then send a copy to the club and a press release to numerous media outlets so it’ll get maximum exposure.
I realise this does not provide the opportunity for much drama and the potential for your banner to get on TV but, if done well, the journalists will lap it up and the club will have received a quantifiable demonstration from the fans i.e. it can no longer be excused as the vocal minority.
What would be interesting is how many would sign. If it was a simple 'sign if you want Alex McLeish out' I'm not sure the majority would sign it. There are other issues, some people don't think he's had a fair chance yet and knew this year would be a struggle. We need to know our owners intentions first. Is he going to spend money on players in the summer? Or is it go with what we've got again and just spend any transfer money you may make from sales.
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I know this is a bit old fashioned but wouldn’t a properly administered petition be a cheap and effective way of getting the fan’s point across. At Norwich there’ll be hmmm 3,000 people max so it would be feasible to ask pretty much every person to sign it.
If you get say 2,500 signatures then it would demonstrate that a huge majority of the important paying customers want “McLeish Out". You then send a copy to the club and a press release to numerous media outlets so it’ll get maximum exposure.
I realise this does not provide the opportunity for much drama and the potential for your banner to get on TV but, if done well, the journalists will lap it up and the club will have received a quantifiable demonstration from the fans i.e. it can no longer be excused as the vocal minority.
What would be interesting is how many would sign. If it was a simple 'sign if you want Alex McLeish out' I'm not sure the majority would sign it. There are other issues, some people don't think he's had a fair chance yet and knew this year would be a struggle. We need to know our owners intentions first. Is he going to spend money on players in the summer? Or is it go with what we've got again and just spend any transfer money you may make from sales.
Really!? If that really is the case then are these protesters correct to be claiming they’re protesting on behalf of villa fans?
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I know this is a bit old fashioned but wouldn’t a properly administered petition be a cheap and effective way of getting the fan’s point across. At Norwich there’ll be hmmm 3,000 people max so it would be feasible to ask pretty much every person to sign it.
If you get say 2,500 signatures then it would demonstrate that a huge majority of the important paying customers want “McLeish Out". You then send a copy to the club and a press release to numerous media outlets so it’ll get maximum exposure.
I realise this does not provide the opportunity for much drama and the potential for your banner to get on TV but, if done well, the journalists will lap it up and the club will have received a quantifiable demonstration from the fans i.e. it can no longer be excused as the vocal minority.
The problem I have with this is that, as it's the last game of the season,a considerable amount of alcohol may have been imbibed by quite a few and Mickey Mouse names could appear on the petition, rendering it useless.
I'm sure the powers that be at VP will do the right thing next week.
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I know this is a bit old fashioned but wouldn’t a properly administered petition be a cheap and effective way of getting the fan’s point across. At Norwich there’ll be hmmm 3,000 people max so it would be feasible to ask pretty much every person to sign it.
If you get say 2,500 signatures then it would demonstrate that a huge majority of the important paying customers want “McLeish Out". You then send a copy to the club and a press release to numerous media outlets so it’ll get maximum exposure.
I realise this does not provide the opportunity for much drama and the potential for your banner to get on TV but, if done well, the journalists will lap it up and the club will have received a quantifiable demonstration from the fans i.e. it can no longer be excused as the vocal minority.
What would be interesting is how many would sign. If it was a simple 'sign if you want Alex McLeish out' I'm not sure the majority would sign it. There are other issues, some people don't think he's had a fair chance yet and knew this year would be a struggle. We need to know our owners intentions first. Is he going to spend money on players in the summer? Or is it go with what we've got again and just spend any transfer money you may make from sales.
Really!? If that really is the case then are these protesters correct to be claiming they’re protesting on behalf of villa fans?
Just not as many as they think