Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on January 02, 2012, 08:59:27 AM
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Available Monday evening.
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I left after 76 minutes, could'nt take no more, worse than the Tottenham and Liverpool games put together, given a football lesson by Swansea fucking City.
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in all fairness we could have started the post match thread after 50 minutes. at no point did i think we would get back into this. 1 shot on goal, tactically rubbish. and when did we get so bad at corners? we are truly terrible.
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I've said it time and time again, our movement off the ball is appalling, were as Swansea's was excellent.
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Hideous. Not even close to being in the game. Every player should be ashamed of that, especially Warnock who had an utter disaster in the first half that essentially fucked everything up. How do you follow up such a good display with that. 5 home defeats in 6, and now a very slippery cup tie ahead. Fuck me.
This place is going to be horrible.
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complete cock
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Very very disappointing (or fucking shit result to be less polite), but ultimately not surprising. All the good work from the Chelsea game undone. Never really looked like getting a result against a side that had an away record of W0 D3 L6 F6 A19 GD-13 before visiting VP.
5 defeats in 6 homes games, got to be a while since we've had that poor a run at VP?
Only plus point, I was too ill to go so thank fuck for small mercies!
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Swansea fully deserved their win. They played a very slick passing game and defended very well.
We didn't show up, Full stop.
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That was really really really bad, particularly in the second half. Ireland looked like he had a spark but was subbed. Warnock was absolutely atrocious. Gabby was very very poor. We have been schooled by Swansea at home, desperately bad. Also our attacking corners are the only thing worse than our defending of them.
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As soon as we seem to be making progress that happens. I just hope it's the freak performance and not Chelsea.
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I'm sure people will argue we shouldn't have taken the points for granted, and Swansea play good football, but before today, they took 3 points from a potential 27 away from home.
We are fucking gash, and there's no justifying us having ONE shot on target at home, against fucking Swansea.
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Sell Bent and use that money to sack McLeish and bring in his replacement.
We were great against Chelsea. But that was horrific. No plan A, let alone a plan B.
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Please please please sell Bent and reinvest in left back right back and centre half.
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Coincidence that our performances have been better with Bent out the side and as soon as he comes back we revert to type?
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Very very disappointing (or fucking shit result to be less polite), but ultimately not surprising. All the good work from the Chelsea game undone. Never really looked like getting a result against a side that had an away record of W0 D3 L6 F6 A19 GD-13 before visiting VP.
5 defeats in 6 homes games, got to be a while since we've had that poor a run at VP?
Only plus point, I was too ill to go so thank fuck for small mercies!
I dont know about the 5 defeats in 6 but we havent lost four at home since 1999
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Listened to the game on Radio WM. Hard to comprehend how we can play well against Chelsea and then get played off the park by Swansea. Disgraceful performance.
Sounds like the fans are turning...boos and "you dont know what you're doing" ringing around Villa Park.
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Well done to Swansea. Brendan Rodgers has shown that not having much money does not mean that you can't play proper football, and has given a lie to the idea that, just because you can't compete at the top, doesn't mean you can't play the game in the 'right' way.
It's a lesson we would do well to remember. Better in the fast half than other showings at home, but Bent should not have been allowed to walk into the team ahead of Albrighton (in better form) and shunting Gabby (better than Bent up front on his own and therefore better for the team) out to the wing. We don't look like passing and moving is a thing we train and practice for. The keeper and defence seem to think that them having the ball means going long, the keeper especially (how Vorm showed us that was wrong today!), and panic under the slightest pressure. Ireland going off was symbolic of the manager losing faith in football, an untenable thing to think, and our threat, however tenuous already, was irredeemably neutered.
A real shame which I hope we bounce back from properly, not losing faith in the better football which has happened in the last few games since Stoke at half-time (where Heskey went off, coincidence?). If he goes back to the aimless hoofball we resorted to today, it will be a very sad and telling day indeed.
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That was shit
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awful just awful. 3 performances before this we seemed to be turning a corner in the football we played, better passing, more attacking, today we went back to being shite.
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As hopeless, embarrassing and insulting a mess as anything I've ever seen at Villa Park. But much closer to the Villa I've become accustomed to under Alex McLeish. Truly abject.
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Terrible, I feel sorry for those who went and had to sit through that.
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Coincidence that our performances have been better with Bent out the side and as soon as he comes back we revert to type?
Yes, god knows what powers he has over Warnock to make him have that performance after he played so well against Chelsea.
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Very bad, and really disappointing. Gave away two stupid goals and never looked like getting into it after that.
I actually thought we were quite bright for the first half hour, but faded away badly. Won't complain about the lineup as that's the team I'd have played. But I do have concerns about how Bent fits in. He really can be a passenger.
I won't stew on this one though, we showed we can play well at Chelsea and Swansea were fantastic.
Guzan 6, Cuellar 5, Collins 6, Dunne 8, Warnock 3, Petrov 7, Clark 7, Gabby 5, Ireland 7, CNZ 6, Bent 4
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Saturday to this ????
Losing and out played by Swansea who were the only team in the PL without an away win.
New lows....something's not right.
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There goes the footballing manager we should have appointed.......
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Coincidence that our performances have been better with Bent out the side and as soon as he comes back we revert to type?
Dropping albrighton was the bigger error in my opinion. Gabby is a great player but he just isn't a threat when played wide right, albrighton's movement and energy make a big difference even when he doesn't have a great game, he was probably our best player when he came on but it was for the wrong person and was far too late.
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I thought the Villa fan in the stands summed it up beautifully as big Eck walked by...................phuk of.....
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Sounds like the fans are turning...boos and "you dont know what you're doing" ringing around Villa Park.
That was the only time I heard then all game
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Coincidence that our performances have been better with Bent out the side and as soon as he comes back we revert to type?
Yes, god knows what powers he has over Warnock to make him have that performance after he played so well against Chelsea.
We had over 90 mins (inc injury time) to pull it back if we had put the performance in.
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Sell Bent? Nonsense.
Start creating some chances for him and we might avoid any repeat of this type of performance this season. We must have had 70% of the possession after we went 2-0 and did sod all with it. Not one decent chance until the 96th minute
Ireland was probably our brightest spark. Albrighton looked dangerous when he came on but his crossing was woeful and Hutton looked incapable of taking his man on.
All in all absolute dog shit and back to the drawing board after the false dawn at Stamford Bridge
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If you are a Villa season ticket holder you are being mugged. In fact you have been for a couple of years - MON's last season was like watching paint dry at home, last year was poor with the odd memorable game at VP, this season takes the biscuit. Fucking shameful.
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Footlong shit sub, with shit sauce.
Shit, shit, shit.
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Randy needs to realise that eventually people will stop paying to watch this shite. I have, but im lucky enough to not have been able to buy a season ticket this year. Im sure there will be alot saying fuck it after the last 4 games
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Oh dear. That's a shocker, to be honest. Even a draw would probably have kept a bit of Saturday's positive spirit going, but to lose (and badly, I think) is a real kick in the balls.
Four straight home defeats is difficult to defend, regardless of who those teams were. A shame, but after Saturday's top drawer performance, the pressure is right back on McLeish, and on the team.
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Sell Bent? Nonsense.
Start creating some chances for him and we might avoid any repeat of this type of performance this season. We must have had 70% of the possession after we went 2-0 and did sod all with it. Not one decent chance until the 96th minute
It's a point, but to create proper chances we need every contributing, we can't just have 9 outfield players and one glory-taking passenger. Modern football doesn't allow it.
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Well done to Swansea. Brendan Rodgers has shown that not having much money does not mean that you can't play proper football, and has given a lie to the idea that, just because you can't compete at the top, doesn't mean you can't play the game in the 'right' way.
Agreed Monts.
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Normally you can pull out a couple of positives in defeat. Today you can't from really any player or part of the game. Let's hope this is just a massive let down or just one of those days, and that we can find a way of pulling ourselves up from this. We don't half make it hard on ourselves.
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What Monty and Matt Collins said.
We were simply outplayed by a highly disciplined and fresh legged Swansea team.
Bent?
The defence. Where do you start?
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Coincidence that our performances have been better with Bent out the side and as soon as he comes back we revert to type?
Yes, god knows what powers he has over Warnock to make him have that performance after he played so well against Chelsea.
We had over 90 mins (inc injury time) to pull it back if we had put the performance in.
We probably did, but all I read on here was Warnock being skinned time and time again. If he hadn't made the mistake then and with another one being made straight after half time we might have got something. But all that happened is they could do to us exactly what we did to Chelski.
But I did wonder the affect of Bent coming back into the Team and for who.
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Our home performances on the whole have been utterly atrocious. I do wonder whether we actually train for any attacking set pieces, not one of our 14/15 corners look threatening.
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That was devastating. Just when there was hope that we had turned the corner. Back to normality.
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I've been very supportive of him but Clark was really poor today, possibly due to tiredness. Gardner should have come on.
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Our home performances on the whole have been utterly atrocious. I do wonder whether we actually train for any attacking set pieces, not one of our 14/15 corners look threatening.
We've been shit since Laursen left. Having Laursen and Carew combined with deadly deliveries from Ash and Barry made us incredibly dangerous.
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Coincidence that our performances have been better with Bent out the side and as soon as he comes back we revert to type?
Yes, god knows what powers he has over Warnock to make him have that performance after he played so well against Chelsea.
We had over 90 mins (inc injury time) to pull it back if we had put the performance in.
We probably did, but all I read on here was Warnock being skinned time and time again. If he hadn't made the mistake then and with another one being made straight after half time we might have got something. But all that happened is they could do to us exactly what we did to Chelski.
But I did wonder the affect of Bent coming back into the Team and for who.
Maybe it was coincidence, maybe it was just team tiredness from the weekend, who knows, but it was just something I threw out there as a thought.
Like you I did wonder whether changing things to fit Bent in would have any effect.
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I think the biggest mistake was not freshening the team up, alot of effort went into the Chelsea game and you could see that today. Warnock's nightmare game didnt help either, putting us on the back foot so early in the game. Bloody annoying, but typical Villa.
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Normally you can pull out a couple of positives in defeat. Today you can't from really any player or part of the game. Let's hope this is just a massive let down or just one of those days, and that we can find a way of pulling ourselves up from this. We don't half make it hard on ourselves.
We've had enough just-one-of-those-days to fill just-one-of-those-months-of-Sundays.
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I had a debate with Ozzjim and some others on the post-Chelsea thread about Bent, and that game illustrated everyyhing I was saying. I won't say that it was Bent which made the negative difference, but Gabby up top offers movement down the channels, even for fairly hopeful balls. He shows more, has more physical presence and works harder.
Bent can play lone man, as he does with England. But your midfield needs to be good enough to dominate without having a front man to 'hit' in the traditional sense. Ours just isn't.
Let's not go overboard though. We've started playing better football, but the combination of after the lord mayor's show, a real lack of freshness, giving away two stupid - and one outrageously stupid - goal really didn't help today.
I'm still happy to give Mcleish time to build on recent improvements.
I will repeat that I was so, so, impressed with Swansea too. I thought they were wonderful to watch - they played like a Spanish side. Great to see teams coming out of the championship, having peanuts to spend, and knocking the ball around like that. Brendan Rogers had a very strong reputation and may well be one to keep an eye on for the Villa manager's job I hope.
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Hopefully it's just a bad day at the office.
Three decent performances prior to this.
In one of those infamous 'seasons of transition' I can wear the odd horror show or six, providing we scale the heights as per the Chelsea game more than once too. Or at least deliver encouraging performances on a fairly regular basis.
That very much depends on what we are transitioning to, I suppose...
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We're crap at playing 'lesser' teams at home, and have been since the MON days. I can remember us huffing and puffing and being turned over at home without creating much on numerous occasions in recent seasons.
The squad was originally moulded by MON to defend deep and counter at speed.
Then in came Houllier who wanted us to play more keep-ball in the opposition half, which was why he bought Bent.
Now we have McLeish, who doesn't seem to know quite what to do with the players he has. I think if you gave him the time and funds to hand pick his own squad, he'd probably do better than he is right now. Although perhaps not so much better that I'd want Randy to trust him with the cash.
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Gabby works very hard and while he won't score as much as Bent, he does the dogs work that make others better. While today seemed to be the right formation, might it have been better to have kept the same starting system as against Chelsea because we would have been more balanced. Bent needs everything to work for him for him to be effective. Gabby is more creator than finisher. Mind you, whatever system we played, you cannot account for stupid defensive errors at the start of each half. That derails everything.
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I'm not sure it was Bent's fault, he was given nothing at all. Gabby was really poor against Arsenal in the lone role. It's about creating opportunities for the front man. I think Gabby probably should have come off for Albrighton rather than Ireland.
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I said before game, they would be fresh and we wouldn't.
Bent has to be sold, he is shit and we play shit when he is on the pitch.
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Very poor. Just as Mcleish and the team seemed to be getting a clue they go and take a bath in clue repellent.
Attack - One shot on target at home against Swansea is not acceptable. Woeful from corners and other set pieces. Gabby or Bent up front, not both. Bent is getting stick from some but he’s a better finisher than Gabby and better at losing his marker, but we aren’t playing to his strengths. That’s not his fault. He picks him today and then doesn’t play Albrighton who played in several crosses against Arsenal that Bent would have thrived on. Albrighton and N’Zog wide and Ireland in the middle makes sense in that regard
Defence - Several times I noted 4 of our players converging on the Swansea player with the ball, leaving his passing options in acres of space. Does it really need 4 players to close down one of theirs? It’s sub-schoolboy defending. They may be good at pass and move but did we have to make it so easy for them?
And that’s the third early goal we’ve gifted the opposition in the last four games, two needless penalties and a horrendous back pass. Shooting yourself in the foot regularly won’t get you very far.
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The holte end wasn't a nice place to be today. They seemed to turn when Ireland came off. Did seem an odd decision since he's been playing well and Petrov looked bloody knackered.
People will moan saying we're fickle but I just think its passion. Passion in that we want the team and the manager to do well. So when a result like Chelsea comes in we cling onto that small speck of light in the hope it's the end of a very dark tunnel. So yes the optimisum is high for today's game against opponents yet to win away. And then this happens. And we're all left feeling deflated and that the Chelsea result wasn't the start of things to come but maybe just a freak accident.
We looked poor today. Excuses of tiredness will be used. Rightly so. Two games in 48 hours is a lot. But Swansea have had the same schedule and they seemed very lively today.
Two massive clangers have let us down. So, so disappointed.
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We were rubbish.
Brenda's team played well.
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I've been very supportive of him but Clark was really poor today, possibly due to tiredness. Gardner should have come on.
I disagree, I thought he played quite well until the last 20 minutes. We just didn't need him and Petrov holding.
Albrighton was a threat, although there remains something about him that just doesn't convince. I think it's that his technique when receiving the ball can be a little odd, when he's not on the right touchline at least. Not sure.
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I'm not sure I've seen a poorer individual full back display than Warnock's today.
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I said before game, they would be fresh and we wouldn't.
Bent has to be sold, he is shit and we play shit when he is on the pitch.
He's not shit at all. He's a certain type of player that needs service. Stick him in the Arsenal team, or Chelsea and he'll score boat loads. Like we was when Ash and Downing were supplying him.
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We looked poor today. Excuses of tiredness will be used. Rightly so. Two games in 48 hours is a lot. But Swansea have had the same schedule and they seemed very lively today.
Swansea made 6 changes for Spurs and 7 for today. Hard to argue that this paid off!!
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I said before game, they would be fresh and we wouldn't.
Bent has to be sold, he is shit and we play shit when he is on the pitch.
Yes that makes perfect sense. We're struggling so let's sell the guy who's our top scorer despite being starved of good service and having missed a few games. Genius.
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Hopefully it's just a bad day at the office.
Three decent performances prior to this.
In one of those infamous 'seasons of transition' I can wear the odd horror show or six, providing we scale the heights as per the Chelsea game more than once too. Or at least deliver encouraging performances on a fairly regular basis.
That very much depends on what we are transitioning to, I suppose...
We're transitioning into a Championship club, hence the managerial appointment! Down to 12th again and Swans above us now. Thank fuck we got four points away over Christmas! Should we really be trusting Ginger McTwat with any money this month?
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Can I just add that our defence seems to have the collective IQ of a toilet brush?
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I thought Dunne played well. The other lot didn't however!
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We're where Newcastle were 3 years ago. There's a lot right with the club but there's an awful to wrong too. It's whether we sort those issues out or we suffer the same fate as the gordies
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I said before game, they would be fresh and we wouldn't.
Bent has to be sold, he is shit and we play shit when he is on the pitch.
Yes that makes perfect sense. We're struggling so let's sell the guy who's our top scorer despite being starved of good service and having missed a few games. Genius.
The mentality of people saying he is shit is beyond my comprehension I have to say. Almost 1 in 2 for the club, 9 in 14 last to keep us up and Englands number 9. Really fucking shit ain't he!?
He was totally starved of service today. Gabby can't play on the right for some reason but is effective down the left, which took until the second half, but we gifted them 2 of the poorest goals we will ever concede today, and I would bet if the first had not been, we would have won the game comfortably.
I feel sorry for Eck tonight, as it was the right team, and they huffed a lot but could not break down a side who are excellent defensively at their own place, and once a goal up had something to cling on too.
The Gabby/ Bent debate will go on, but think it will have to be one or the other at the moment, but the former is not consistent enough in front of goal to take us forward playing as the top man IMO.
The substitutions let us down most though. Cuellar going off could have seen another creative mid and go 3 across the back, Bannan in the 85th minute is way too late and Gardner deserved a run out, could not have been worse. Maybe a game too far for some after the Christmas games, so much effort at Chelsea and Stoke.
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Although unlikely given the fixtures, if results go against us we could go down to 15th.
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Comes to something when Swansea have more strength in depth than we do.
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I said before game, they would be fresh and we wouldn't.
Bent has to be sold, he is shit and we play shit when he is on the pitch.
Yes that makes perfect sense. We're struggling so let's sell the guy who's our top scorer despite being starved of good service and having missed a few games. Genius.
We all knew this was going to happen, as McLeish's shit football would basically make him a passenger.
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For the sake of clarity, I'm not arguing for one second that Bent is shit. he clearly isn't. I just think we have a bit of a challenge to integrate him successfully into the team and I worry that he hampers our game
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Bent thrives on crosses, but McLeish dropped our player of the month winger to accommodate him and changed a winning team.
Crazy decision.
5 losses in 6 at home, pathetic.
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Well played Swansea. Would love to see us play football like that. Considering they are a small team I thought their centre halves were excellent as was Britton in midfield. We didn't help ourselves today but it was a poor show. I really hate 1 striker at home. Ultimately we played a successful away formation at home and it doesn't work as proven by our appalling home record.
McLeish will never win over the home majority unless we can dominate the 'non-elite' teams at home.
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We're crap at playing 'lesser' teams at home, and have been since the MON days.
Is this the same "lesser" team that have played Spurs and numerous other teams off the park this season?
Bent should not be sold; he is not a "luxury" and the manager should have the basic common sense and tactical awareness to play to a system that utilises his abilities to stick the ball in the back of the net and that is by providing him with service. How many more times are we going to have so few shots on goal this season with so many attacking players in our squad? Its truly pathetic.
Fairplay to Swansea...just think how good they could be if they had the "luxury" of having Bent in their team.
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So... four consecutive home defeats, 1 goal scored and about 5 meaningful shots on target in total.
Utterly abysmal, I feel sick that I spent so much money on a season ticket to be served up this drivel. Not a chance in hell I will renew if McLeish is still here in June.
Warnock... geez, to think I used to moan about Alan Wright, hopeless.
Fair play to Swansea, they play football we can only dream of.
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Bent thrives on crosses, but McLeish dropped our player of the month winger to accommodate him and changed a winning team.
Crazy decision.
5 losses in 6 at home, pathetic.
Yes Albrighton should have played - but Gabby should have made way, not Bent. Gabby has had some good games out wide this season and works hard, but for me Albrighton is a a better crosser, and Bent is always more likely to tuck any chances away consistently, as their respective goals to games ratios show.
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We're crap at playing 'lesser' teams at home, and have been since the MON days.
Is this the same "lesser" team that have played Spurs and numerous other teams off the park this season?
Bent should not be sold; he is not a "luxury" and the manager should have the basic common sense and tactical awareness to play to a system that utilises his abilities to stick the ball in the back of the net and that is by providing him with service. How many more times are we going to have so few shots on goal this season with so many attacking players in our squad? Its truly pathetic.
Fairplay to Swansea...just think how good they could be if they had the "luxury" of having Bent in their team.
Maybe Sam meant the lesser team that had managed 3 points and 6 goals in their previous 9 away games?
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No where near as bad as against Spurs, we had Heskey and Hutton in midfield and were playing from the of for a defeat.
It all went wrong today but we hadn't given up the ghost before the game began like against spurs
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Bent thrives on crosses, but McLeish dropped our player of the month winger to accommodate him and changed a winning team.
Crazy decision.
5 losses in 6 at home, pathetic.
When we go a goal behind at home its virtually game over as we collapse so badly. The team and the manager don't have a clue what to do about it.
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No where near as bad as against Spurs, we had Heskey and Hutton in midfield and were playing from the of for a defeat.
It all went wrong today but we hadn't given up the ghost before the game began like against spurs
That is true.
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I've only been supporting Villa since Saturday. Is this what it's supposed to be like?
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I've only been supporting Villa since Saturday. Is this what it's supposed to be like?
Don't know about supposed to be, but it always has been.
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I've only been supporting Villa since Saturday. Is this what it's supposed to be like?
Larf a minute.
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Agree with you there KRS
I don't think it was the right team today. Petrov struggles with 90 mins and played his heart out against Chelsea. He looked knackered today. He should of been Subed or start from the bench to come on and impact later in the game. Taking Ireland off was an odd call but not as odd as Clarke for bannan. Why was the point? What's bannan going to do in 5 mins?
Everton is going to be a huge game for everyone. We need to stop this losing streak at home. And we need to find out which was the fluke result. Have we indeed turned a corner and today was a blip after a hard game at Chelsea or was it the Chelsea game that was the false dawn. I really hope it was just a bad day at the office today.
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Outplayed in all departments -very poor display and we look a far better team with gabby leading the line , granted bent is a better finisher but he contributes little to the play and if the right price is offered which leads to 3 quality signings id be tempted to let darren leave.
Two shockingly poor goals conceded and back to square one again.
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1 - Warnock is an awful player.
2 - "Why can't we pass it around instead of hoofing it?" said the bloke next to me (and countless others), "Because they're patient and you're not" was my response. Brendan Rogers and his players have said numerous times that they will always pass it. It if goes wrong, it goes wrong, but eventually passing the ball will be more beneficial. The Villa fans have never and will never accept that. Our fans prevent us from having a team that passes the ball. We had a manager last season who was trying to change the way we played, and look at the response he got.
3 - The booing for the substitution of Ireland? I'm sorry, I must have blinked when Ireland did his bit to warrant staying on the pitch.
4 - Two shocking mistakes by players who should know better is not AM's fault.
5 - First 20 minutes we looked good.
6 - AM should've changed the tactics a lot earlier and played two up front pretty much when we went 2-0 down.
Out of interest, have the Villa ever been a passing team? I've been going since about 95/96 and, whilst on occasions, we have passed it well, we've never done it like they did today.
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1 - Warnock is an awful player.
2 - "Why can't we pass it around instead of hoofing it?" said the bloke next to me (and countless others), "Because they're patient and you're not" was my response. Brendan Rogers and his players have said numerous times that they will always pass it. It if goes wrong, it goes wrong, but eventually passing the ball will be more beneficial. The Villa fans have never and will never accept that. Our fans prevent us from having a team that passes the ball. We had a manager last season who was trying to change the way we played, and look at the response he got.
3 - The booing for the substitution of Ireland? I'm sorry, I must have blinked when Ireland did his bit to warrant staying on the pitch.
4 - Two shocking mistakes by players who should know better is not AM's fault.
5 - First 20 minutes we looked good.
6 - AM should've changed the tactics a lot earlier and played two up front pretty much when we went 2-0 down.
Out of interest, have the Villa ever been a passing team? I've been going since about 95/96 and, whilst on occasions, we have passed it well, we've never done it like they did today.
Under Big Ron.
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We were a superb passing team under Atkinson.
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On Av2 now. To me N'Z has no idea where he should be either when we have the ball or don't. Both goals came down his side of the pitch despite the manager changing it. Why not take him off as he was a liability. We played with 10 men and N'Zogbia today.
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I've said it time and time again, our movement off the ball is appalling, were as Swansea's was excellent.
This is our main problem and why we are useless at home
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There's a difference between what happens when we try to pass it, where it moves around about 30 times between Petrov, the back 4 and the keeper before being launched forward aimlessly when someone is put under pressure, and what Swansea did today where they pass it around quickly looking to move it forward.
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McLeish sounded like a drowning man on the radio just now.
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Just back. Embarrassing Garbage.
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1 - Warnock is an awful player.
2 - "Why can't we pass it around instead of hoofing it?" said the bloke next to me (and countless others), "Because they're patient and you're not" was my response. Brendan Rogers and his players have said numerous times that they will always pass it. It if goes wrong, it goes wrong, but eventually passing the ball will be more beneficial. The Villa fans have never and will never accept that. Our fans prevent us from having a team that passes the ball. We had a manager last season who was trying to change the way we played, and look at the response he got.
3 - The booing for the substitution of Ireland? I'm sorry, I must have blinked when Ireland did his bit to warrant staying on the pitch.
4 - Two shocking mistakes by players who should know better is not AM's fault.
5 - First 20 minutes we looked good.
6 - AM should've changed the tactics a lot earlier and played two up front pretty much when we went 2-0 down.
Out of interest, have the Villa ever been a passing team? I've been going since about 95/96 and, whilst on occasions, we have passed it well, we've never done it like they did today.
Under Big Ron.
Just missed out then!
Were Villa fans more patient then, because I can't imagine fans giving the team time to be able to do that.?
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We're crap at playing 'lesser' teams at home, and have been since the MON days.
Is this the same "lesser" team that have played Spurs and numerous other teams off the park this season?
Bent should not be sold; he is not a "luxury" and the manager should have the basic common sense and tactical awareness to play to a system that utilises his abilities to stick the ball in the back of the net and that is by providing him with service. How many more times are we going to have so few shots on goal this season with so many attacking players in our squad? Its truly pathetic.
Fairplay to Swansea...just think how good they could be if they had the "luxury" of having Bent in their team.
Maybe Sam meant the lesser team that had managed 3 points and 6 goals in their previous 9 away games?
Yeah I was genuinely surprised when I realised that they hadnt won away from home this season...but then I immediately thought that today would be the day that changes that. Like I said at the end of my post: "just think how good they could be if they had the "luxury" of having Bent in their team"...chances are they would have more away wins under their belt by now.
May be I should have said..."Is this the same "lesser" team that are now above us in the table, havent spent millions on their squad and showed us how to play football today".
The truly scary thing for me is that if we hadnt have got that unexpected brilliant result against Chelsea on the weekend which managed to give us all a false hope for 48hrs, then we would be sat exactly in my worse case scenario prediction in the table...we would be 15th in the table right now.
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Unbelievably inept. Could be used to just describe Warnock but more likely the whole team today.
All the good work of Saturday completely wasted.
Great stuff.
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1 - Warnock is an awful player.
2 - "Why can't we pass it around instead of hoofing it?" said the bloke next to me (and countless others), "Because they're patient and you're not" was my response. Brendan Rogers and his players have said numerous times that they will always pass it. It if goes wrong, it goes wrong, but eventually passing the ball will be more beneficial. The Villa fans have never and will never accept that. Our fans prevent us from having a team that passes the ball. We had a manager last season who was trying to change the way we played, and look at the response he got.
3 - The booing for the substitution of Ireland? I'm sorry, I must have blinked when Ireland did his bit to warrant staying on the pitch.
4 - Two shocking mistakes by players who should know better is not AM's fault.
5 - First 20 minutes we looked good.
6 - AM should've changed the tactics a lot earlier and played two up front pretty much when we went 2-0 down.
Out of interest, have the Villa ever been a passing team? I've been going since about 95/96 and, whilst on occasions, we have passed it well, we've never done it like they did today.
Under Big Ron.
Just missed out then!
Were Villa fans more patient then, because I can't imagine fans giving the team time to be able to do that.?
We have never been that patient,but you cant blame the fans for what is happening.
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A factory of pain
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Outplayed by inferior players.
McLeish shouldn't take all of the blame, but it's not good enough. Oh to have a philosophy like Swansea.
Credit to them though, fantastic side and miles ahead of us.
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Selling bent is not the answer. The answer is using someone who can score 20 goals a season in the right way to get him to score that many.
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Swansea's fans kept singing 'we'll sing on our own' during the game, at times it seemed like 'we'll play on our own' would have been more apt
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Losing is bad but why do we have to lose so badly??
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Well done to Swansea. Brendan Rodgers has shown that not having much money does not mean that you can't play proper football, and has given a lie to the idea that, just because you can't compete at the top, doesn't mean you can't play the game in the 'right' way.
Agreed Monts.
Total agreement here also
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1 - Warnock is an awful player.
2 - "Why can't we pass it around instead of hoofing it?" said the bloke next to me (and countless others), "Because they're patient and you're not" was my response. Brendan Rogers and his players have said numerous times that they will always pass it. It if goes wrong, it goes wrong, but eventually passing the ball will be more beneficial. The Villa fans have never and will never accept that. Our fans prevent us from having a team that passes the ball. We had a manager last season who was trying to change the way we played, and look at the response he got.
3 - The booing for the substitution of Ireland? I'm sorry, I must have blinked when Ireland did his bit to warrant staying on the pitch.
4 - Two shocking mistakes by players who should know better is not AM's fault.
5 - First 20 minutes we looked good.
6 - AM should've changed the tactics a lot earlier and played two up front pretty much when we went 2-0 down.
Out of interest, have the Villa ever been a passing team? I've been going since about 95/96 and, whilst on occasions, we have passed it well, we've never done it like they did today.
1/ Yes, Warnock had a torrid 1st half. I did feel he improved in the 2nd half.
2/ Agree. The support (I use the term lightly) turned as soon as we went a goal down. We'd actually been passing it quite nicely until then. I've said all season that our home support is crap, they just don't get behind the team when we need them. Why do you think we play better away? It's not all home supporters, some of us do try and get a flicker of life from the others.
3/ Couldn't work that out either. You could see he was knackered. Have to say I thought he'd been doing well, though.
4/ Agree. I posted on another thread that when we lose; it's AMcL's fault, yet when we win its the players who get the plaudits and he gets no credit. Totally wrong in my opinion.
5/ Agree. Obviously their 2nd goal killed us, you saw the confidence disappear., if they hadn't got it they may have had the jitters later in the game.
6/ I think he was hoping that eventually the formation would pay off. I still think our best formation could be 4-5-1 as Chelsea.
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Brendan Rogers to be offered the Villa job, anyone?
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Bent has to be sold, he is shit and we play shit when he is on the pitch.
Bent is shit?
With all due respect, what absolute nonsense that is. Look at his record. Look at his record here, even.
No striker - especially one with Bent's strengths - is going to prosper if the team don't get the ball to him.
Selling Bent now would have the triple whammy of taking our only reliable goalscorer away, making us look even more like a club going nowhere, and alienating the fanbase even more.
Right now, I can't think of a dimmer thing to do that sell Bent.
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I don't think Bent wants to be here... on those grounds we should get rid, for £25M or there abouts.
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Well done to Swansea. Brendan Rodgers has shown that not having much money does not mean that you can't play proper football, and has given a lie to the idea that, just because you can't compete at the top, doesn't mean you can't play the game in the 'right' way.
Agreed Monts.
Total agreement here also
Ditto
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I've only been supporting Villa since Saturday. Is this what it's supposed to be like?
This is what your glory hunting has done to us. Tsk.
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McLeish has used up his get out of jail free card from saturday already.
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Bent has to be sold, he is shit and we play shit when he is on the pitch.
Bent is shit?
With all due respect, what absolute nonsense that is. Look at his record. Look at his record here, even.
No striker - especially one with Bent's strengths - is going to prosper if the team don't get the ball to him.
Selling Bent now would have the triple whammy of taking our only reliable goalscorer away, making us look even more like a club going nowhere, and alienating the fanbase even more.
Right now, I can't think of a dimmer thing to do that sell Bent.
Alex McLeish starting Warnock next (prem) game? :)
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We looked good for 20 minutes, then for the next 70 looked as poor as we have done at home all season.
The most disturbing thing for me was that Swansea passed the ball around us like aliens from the planet football. The contrast between Rodgers and McLeish was laid out about as starkly as it possibly could be today.
Warnock was execrable today. I can't remember the last time I saw a player take a full back to the cleaners as thoroughly as Dyer did to him today. it was pitiful to watch.
Saturday was fantastic, but today was the sharpest reality check possible.
Currently we have a large number of players who are not good enough, a manager who is deeply unconvincing, a squad which is quite frankly not strong enough, an owner who hardly ever graces us with a visit from the other side of the Atlantic, and whose idea of running the club seems to be insist that we can't strengthen the squad until we do more about the wage bill. We are going absolutely nowhere other than in the wrong direction, and at a worrying pace.
I don't like booing the team, and it isn't nice to hear chants of "you don't know what you're doing" at the manager, but i fully understand the reasoning of those who did it today.
We have lost five of our last six home games. I can't believe anyone is surprised to hear boos after that.
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Well, where to start with that performance? I don't think I'll bother.
Bent is not even close to being shit. See 'Warnock' and 'Hutton'.
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One team showed movement in midfield, how to pass, control and technique. The other showed none of these. Until we start to improve in this area we will only be a counter-attacking team, which works well away from home when everybody puts the effort in but does not work at home where teams sit deeper.
On top of this today, our use of possession was appalling. From simple deadball situations, corners (how many was it, 14 or 15), I can only remember one Dunne header that we actually won the ball. To make matters worse, Swansea seemed to win every 2nd ball on the edge of their area which allowed them to play the ball out with composure.
I am getting fed up with people defending one or another of our defenders at various times. All of them are a mistake waiting to happen. Today it was a lazy Warnock and Cullear being taken apart by Routledge and then even given a second chance standing rooted to the spot as he allowed him to put away the rebound. Other days it has been Dunne or Collins. The defence has absolutely no composure and today resorted back to the long ball. Why is this, is it that they are too impatient and cannot be bothered to play the ball around with purpose looking for openings to develop. They do, however, need players immediately infront of them to receive the ball.
The debate regarding Bent and Gabby still goes on. At home, one up front will not get you the goals you require so somehow we need to develop a system where they can play together. Also, as much as Gabby tries, he will never score enough goals to be a lone forward. Why is it that when we bring Bent back it means that Gabby is played wide and therefore both players are easy to pick up as they are in fixed positions. Why can they not interchange and play as twin strikers. Or is it that one or the other (or both) are not clever enough to do this, or the midfield not creative enough to play this system.
Others have said that Swansea made 6 or 7 changes but looked as though they played together week in week out. The reason, they have a method of playing together as a team so that they can interchange players without it affecting them. With Villa we have a team of individuals who look as though they have never played together before. This can only be down to either poor coaching, poor tactical thinking, the wrong mix of players and lack or cetain abilities in some players.
Likewise, others have remarked how little comparatively Swansea have spent on building their squad which shows it is all down to management/coaching. Martinez started it, continued by Sousa and Rodgers. It shows it can be done by using modern methods of management.
How many false dawns are we going to have before we can move forward an build.
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I understand why the fans are frustrated, Christ I'm frustrated but after the booing and the chants the players became worse they didn't want the ball they were terrified. It does not help
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I'm struggling to understand how we could possibly play so bad after a brilliant away victory on Sunday when we should be riding high with confidence and momentum.
It just seems like whenever we take one step forward we go two steps back.
You cant even use the insane scheduling as an excuse because Swansea were in the same position as us.
The amount of losses we've had is unacceptable and very worrying. Home form is crucial. Why could McLeish stay unbeaten for a year at Blues? He should start making Villa Park a fortress.
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There will be those who say today was a blip.
I think Saturday was the blip, today was normal service being resumed.
From the kickoff, the ball found its way back to Collins who promptly hoofed it as had as he could.
After 10 seconds it felt like the tone was being set.
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I'm sorry Bent is a contributing factor to us not playing well.
He scores tap ins, he isn't a goal machine, he is a goal hanger.
We don't play a system or have the personnel to accommodate him, so what's the point?
It's no coincidence he came back in and the performance suffered. The ball never sticks up front it just keeps coming back thus applying constant pressure on ourselves.
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That was utter, utter pants. Outplayed by Swansea (who were very good but even so....). To hear them chanting 'boring boring Villa' and 'premier league you're having a laugh' just rubbed salt into the wound not least of all because they were right. Mcleish sounded suitably clueless on the radio on the way back
Maybe the 3 decent performances against Arsenal, Stoke and Chelsea were a blip and we've now reverted to type.
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Let's face it, for the forseeable future we're going to be a team who's aim is to stay in the PL by the looks of it. Looking at Swansea's plan and trying to emulate it mightn't be a bad idea.
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I'm struggling to understand how we could possibly play so bad after a brilliant away victory on Sunday when we should be riding high with confidence and momentum.
It just seems like whenever we take one step forward we go two steps back.
You cant even use the insane scheduling as an excuse because Swansea were in the same position as us.
Last season we went to Chelsea, performed well, got a draw, then four days later put in a terrible performance to lose to Sunderland.
This time around, it was an even worse performance.
The worst thing today wasn't about the outcome of one match, though, it was seeing the difference between a team which has been set up to play a modern, passing game under a forward thinking manager totally outplay a team which really needs to be dragged into the 21st century.
I'm not saying we should appoint Rodgers any more than we should have appointed Martinez when Wigan beat us at home that time, but as a general indicator, it was depressing stuff.
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I think its telling that the last 3 goals we've conceeded, each of our back 5 has had a hand in them, shocking stuff.
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Well done to the fuckwits who threw bricks at the Swansea fans coaches, I hope you feel proud of yourselves.
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Well done to the fuckwits who threw bricks at the Swansea fans coaches, I hope you feel proud of yourselves.
Somebody posted about this on Facebook. Any details?
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I just find it depressing that a side enjoying it's first season in the top flight since the early 80s can play that kind of football, while we've spent most of that time at the top half of the league and play the style of football that we do.
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I'm sorry Bent is a contributing factor to us not playing well.
He scores tap ins, he isn't a goal machine, he is a goal hanger.
We don't play a system or have the personnel to accommodate him, so what's the point?
It's no coincidence he came back in and the performance suffered. The ball never sticks up front it just keeps coming back thus applying constant pressure on ourselves.
So having attacking minded players like Ireland, Bannan, Albrighton, N'Zogbia and Gabby arent the right type of personnel to provide Bent with service to score goals? We could certainly do with some more guts in midfield but surely those players have the footballing intelligence to supply Bent with the type of service he thrives on to get his 20+ goals per season. He is a player capable of doing that and he has the players around him to help him reach that target, so it can only be the system that is wrong...who is responsible for the system and the tactics?
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The worst thing today wasn't about the outcome of one match, though, it was seeing the difference between a team which has been set up to play a modern, passing game under a forward thinking manager totally outplay a team which really needs to be dragged into the 21st century.
I'm not saying we should appoint Rodgers any more than we should have appointed Martinez when Wigan beat us at home that time, but as a general indicator, it was depressing stuff.
I have to agree with this Paulie - it cannot be any coincidence that our problems stem from not being able to pass the ball. These players couldn't do it under MoN either!
My only hope is that we survive this season and then rebuild a passing team for the future.
We had the chance to go today but the general consensus was it would be the usual tripe - we were going against Everton but I don't know if I can stand more of the same...
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While I agree with praising the way Swansea played, I think it's a little unfair to compare him to McLeish or overly criticise him on that subject. Rodgers and Martinez before him sha the same footballing philosophy and over the last few years have specifically purchased played to play a certain way. McLeish is trying to make us play that way with players he's mainly acquired from MON who never tried to play that way. It's also something as we know GH struggled with. It will be a long time, and/or take a lot of cash to change out the playing staff and ingrain a different playing mentality at the club.
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WTF. ?
Swansea (!) were made to look like Barca. How can we be two different teams, in three days? Back to the future with no attacking teeth and sloppy defending. After all the team was much the same, (I would have played Marc from the start even at the expense of Benty, that boy can cross a ball), and why does he consistantly make subs so bloody late? Tactically what happened? I watched it live and just couldn't believe it.
Is it the home crowd? I don't think so they (we) all expected the side to continue on from Saturday so it was positive to begin with.
Is anybody out there with more footy nous than me who can explain why we look like chasing for Euro places on Saturday and get a lesson on Monday. Tiredness cannot explain it. Thank F we got those points off Chelsea.
Oh, and congrats to Swansea on a great display.
Signed: Confused, Tunbridge Wells.
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Well done to the fuckwits who threw bricks at the Swansea fans coaches, I hope you feel proud of yourselves.
Somebody posted about this on Facebook. Any details?
There's a thread about it on Planet Swans.
"Yep, one of the more reliable away fans has just said on Twitter that her coach was bricked - thank feck for double glazing was her exact phrase!"
"Bus 1 has had a window put through and they tried to put another through."
"These two weren't hiding. They were walking alongside the bus. They run off then though. Cowards."
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We are bricking their bus? Christ it just gets better. Shameful.
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I had a bad feeling the very first minute when nzog banged in a great low cross bent wasn't even looking,warnock looked like me if i was playing today,how many corner's , and your back in the room!!
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As if the day could get worse, some tw@s about.
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Undone by two individual errors.
Plenty of effort, but no guile.
Assume Ireland came off because two 90 minute games in three days was too much considering he's had not that much action.
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Well done to the fuckwits who threw bricks at the Swansea fans coaches, I hope you feel proud of yourselves.
Wonderful. A poor performance compounded by some our so called fans acting like utter wankers.
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We are bricking their bus? Christ it just gets better. Shameful.
It's quite simple. Hunt them down. Send them to prison for a bit. When they get out, make sure they don't come within a billion miles* of Villa Park. Scum like that are not permitted to support the club I love.
*obviously not really a billion miles
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Pity nzog didn't get the luck of the bounce for his shot off the post. He needs a goal.
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Well done to Swansea. Brendan Rodgers has shown that not having much money does not mean that you can't play proper football, and has given a lie to the idea that, just because you can't compete at the top, doesn't mean you can't play the game in the 'right' way.
Agreed Monts.
Total agreement here also
Ditto
Absolutely bang on Monty. I would welcome Rodgers here when Eck leaves which hopefully is not too far away.
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I didn't get to watch today's game but from all that I've heard, we weren't very good.
Very disappointing after such a good performance on New Year's Eve. Our home form is very worrying.
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I'm sorry Bent is a contributing factor to us not playing well.
He scores tap ins, he isn't a goal machine, he is a goal hanger.
We don't play a system or have the personnel to accommodate him, so what's the point?
It's no coincidence he came back in and the performance suffered. The ball never sticks up front it just keeps coming back thus applying constant pressure on ourselves.
I am sorry but your anti-Bent campaign is b*******.
In our 5 wins this season, Bent has scored in 4 of them.
How does Bent contribute to individual errors by others that cost us goals game after game.
The urban myth that Bent only scores tap-ins. Go back and do some research on his goals.
We do not have a system or personnel to accommodate Messi, so there is no point in having him in the team??? Bent is not the best striker around and does miss some sitters at times but has scored goals wherever he has played and sometimes in not very good sides. Improve other parts of the team and you will get a far better return out of him.
How many passes did he receive today? How many times was the ball played infront of him for him to run onto? How many chances were created for him infront of goal today?
The ball comes back because our passing is atrocious, with long balls usually failing to hit the intended target.
Wake up and face reality.
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Pity nzog didn't get the luck of the bounce for his shot off the post. He needs a goal.
Yes a goal at that time was of no value to the result however it would have done huge amount of good foe his confidence.
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It's hard to tell how much the Chelsea game took out of the players, but it was very very poor. First twenty minutes or so we looked lively but that was about it. Once they got the second of their gift wrapped goals, you could'nt really see us getting back into it. After the 3 previous encouraging displays, let's hope it's a one off.
As for Warnock, i praised him yesterday for being good in the last few games, which was deserved. Today again though showed that he's one of the worst left backs i've ever seen down there.
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I understand why the fans are frustrated, Christ I'm frustrated but after the booing and the chants the players became worse they didn't want the ball they were terrified. It does not help
Agree,
Home support is pretty crap, has been all season.
Not all, some of us do try and get a flicker of life from the rest.
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Albrighton must have been gutted to be left out of this one after his performance at chelsea. Saying that the team mcleish put out would have been many peoples pick and it should have been more than enough to beat swansea at home. This is the roller coaster that is Aston Villa and many older fans must of had that underlying feeling of apprehension after such a great win in london, I certainly did because its typical of the villa to let you down when they've pumped you up. We will however respond with a win against a decent confident everton team, I'm sure of it. up the villa!
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I'm sorry Bent is a contributing factor to us not playing well.
He scores tap ins, he isn't a goal machine, he is a goal hanger.
We don't play a system or have the personnel to accommodate him, so what's the point?
It's no coincidence he came back in and the performance suffered. The ball never sticks up front it just keeps coming back thus applying constant pressure on ourselves.
So having attacking minded players like Ireland, Bannan, Albrighton, N'Zogbia and Gabby arent the right type of personnel to provide Bent with service to score goals? We could certainly do with some more guts in midfield but surely those players have the footballing intelligence to supply Bent with the type of service he thrives on to get his 20+ goals per season. He is a player capable of doing that and he has the players around him to help him reach that target, so it can only be the system that is wrong...who is responsible for the system and the tactics?
Bent is a goal scorer, but he doesn't contribute to the play at all, he is just waiting for someone to put it on a plate for him.
Gabby up top backs into the defender holds the ball up and brings the rest of the team into play. Bent doesn't.
People cannot seriously say its just a coincidence we've looked a completely different team the 3 previous games while playing without Bent.
Bent would be perfect for a team that dominate possession, but there must be a reason he has never played consistently for a top 10 team.
I would honestly sell him and strengthen the squad, but that's just me.
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While I agree with praising the way Swansea played, I think it's a little unfair to compare him to McLeish or overly criticise him on that subject. Rodgers and Martinez before him sha the same footballing philosophy and over the last few years have specifically purchased played to play a certain way. McLeish is trying to make us play that way with players he's mainly acquired from MON who never tried to play that way. It's also something as we know GH struggled with. It will be a long time, and/or take a lot of cash to change out the playing staff and ingrain a different playing mentality at the club.
Interesting post.
I remember saying that last season too.
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If this has been said countless times before then i apologise, i just cant be bothered to read the previous 10 pages.
One man up front at home against anybody is pisspoor let alone Swansea - in fact he did it against Hereford so i expect the same against Bristol Rovers next week too. And if you do persist with this, that man cannot be Darren Bent. He simply can't play on his own all his qualities are wasted. Two managers have deployed him like this now and i really can't see why.
Then at 2-0 down we simply had to take Warnock off for Albrighton. To take off Ireland was not increasing the attacking threat at all. Then the whole Clark for Bannan was so predictable.
Credit to Swansea they played very well indeed and had a game plan. They are a footballing side which we should have known already from their previous games in the division.
Scott Sincair said on MOTD last week they fancied coming to Villa - that says it all when a newly promoted side fancies coming here.
Happy new year to all H&V mods and subscribers anyway. Let our blind faith continue to give us something to talk about. UTV
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I'm sorry Bent is a contributing factor to us not playing well.
He scores tap ins, he isn't a goal machine, he is a goal hanger.
We don't play a system or have the personnel to accommodate him, so what's the point?
It's no coincidence he came back in and the performance suffered. The ball never sticks up front it just keeps coming back thus applying constant pressure on ourselves.
So having attacking minded players like Ireland, Bannan, Albrighton, N'Zogbia and Gabby arent the right type of personnel to provide Bent with service to score goals? We could certainly do with some more guts in midfield but surely those players have the footballing intelligence to supply Bent with the type of service he thrives on to get his 20+ goals per season. He is a player capable of doing that and he has the players around him to help him reach that target, so it can only be the system that is wrong...who is responsible for the system and the tactics?
Bent is a goal scorer, but he doesn't contribute to the play at all, he is just waiting for someone to put it on a plate for him.
Gabby up top backs into the defender holds the ball up and brings the rest of the team into play. Bent doesn't.
People cannot seriously say its just a coincidence we've looked a completely different team the 3 previous games while playing without Bent.
Bent would be perfect for a team that dominate possession, but there must be a reason he has never played consistently for a top 10 team.
I would honestly sell him and strengthen the squad, but that's just me.
I agree with you Shrek 100% Bent isnt a team player his movement outside the box is poor, he doesnt close defenders down and as u say without him we have played well and looked balanced. Having said that it wasnt his fault we lost that was down to individual errors by defenders and possibly Brad
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I'm sorry Bent is a contributing factor to us not playing well.
He scores tap ins, he isn't a goal machine, he is a goal hanger.
We don't play a system or have the personnel to accommodate him, so what's the point?
It's no coincidence he came back in and the performance suffered. The ball never sticks up front it just keeps coming back thus applying constant pressure on ourselves.
I am sorry but your anti-Bent campaign is b*******.
In our 5 wins this season, Bent has scored in 4 of them.
How does Bent contribute to individual errors by others that cost us goals game after game.
The urban myth that Bent only scores tap-ins. Go back and do some research on his goals.
We do not have a system or personnel to accommodate Messi, so there is no point in having him in the team??? Bent is not the best striker around and does miss some sitters at times but has scored goals wherever he has played and sometimes in not very good sides. Improve other parts of the team and you will get a far better return out of him.
How many passes did he receive today? How many times was the ball played infront of him for him to run onto? How many chances were created for him infront of goal today?
The ball comes back because our passing is atrocious, with long balls usually failing to hit the attended target.
Wake up and face reality.
It's no anti Bent campaign, it's just reality. Bent very rarely if ever creates a goal for him self or others.
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We looked good for 20 minutes, then for the next 70 looked as poor as we have done at home all season.
The most disturbing thing for me was that Swansea passed the ball around us like aliens from the planet football. The contrast between Rodgers and McLeish was laid out about as starkly as it possibly could be today.
Warnock was execrable today. I can't remember the last time I saw a player take a full back to the cleaners as thoroughly as Dyer did to him today. it was pitiful to watch.
Saturday was fantastic, but today was the sharpest reality check possible.
Currently we have a large number of players who are not good enough, a manager who is deeply unconvincing, a squad which is quite frankly not strong enough, an owner who hardly ever graces us with a visit from the other side of the Atlantic, and whose idea of running the club seems to be insist that we can't strengthen the squad until we do more about the wage bill. We are going absolutely nowhere other than in the wrong direction, and at a worrying pace.
I don't like booing the team, and it isn't nice to hear chants of "you don't know what you're doing" at the manager, but i fully understand the reasoning of those who did it today.
We have lost five of our last six home games. I can't believe anyone is surprised to hear boos after that.
Again Paulie, you say it exactly as I see it too.
I also have to add that I thought that Clarke was very ineffectual today. I can see why he was in the team, but he offered us nothing at one nil down really, and at two down things had to be changed. He was the ideal candidate to come off even prior to Ireland running out of steam. The team on the sidelines obviously saw things different.
One of the biggest critiques of MONs management and rightly so, was that there was no plan B. We seem to have a Management Team that have the same approach.
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Just to clarify, I'm not blaming Bent for us losing, I'm saying Bent is one of the main contributing factors in our poor performances.
Today we lost because Warnock messed up then Brad didn't just clear the ball first time, instead he took a touch was under pressure them cleared too their player.
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I'm sorry Bent is a contributing factor to us not playing well.
He scores tap ins, he isn't a goal machine, he is a goal hanger.
We don't play a system or have the personnel to accommodate him, so what's the point?
It's no coincidence he came back in and the performance suffered. The ball never sticks up front it just keeps coming back thus applying constant pressure on ourselves.
So having attacking minded players like Ireland, Bannan, Albrighton, N'Zogbia and Gabby arent the right type of personnel to provide Bent with service to score goals? We could certainly do with some more guts in midfield but surely those players have the footballing intelligence to supply Bent with the type of service he thrives on to get his 20+ goals per season. He is a player capable of doing that and he has the players around him to help him reach that target, so it can only be the system that is wrong...who is responsible for the system and the tactics?
Bent is a goal scorer, but he doesn't contribute to the play at all, he is just waiting for someone to put it on a plate for him.
Gabby up top backs into the defender holds the ball up and brings the rest of the team into play. Bent doesn't.
People cannot seriously say its just a coincidence we've looked a completely different team the 3 previous games while playing without Bent.
Bent would be perfect for a team that dominate possession, but there must be a reason he has never played consistently for a top 10 team.
I would honestly sell him and strengthen the squad, but that's just me.
What you're actually arguing against is a style of player issue rather than Bent contributing to the team. Bent isnt and has never been the type of player to muscle defenders off the ball and hold up play...his strengths are playing off the shoulder of the last defender, his positional awareness in the box and putting the ball in the back of the net. If you're argument for selling Bent is right, then we may as well play Heskey up front instead but the end result would be the same...we wouldnt score goals, we would concede at the back and lose games.
I can see the problems with Bent and agree with your points about his style of play, but its for the manager to use the correct tactics and style of play to utilise the strengths of our greatest asset on the pitch. If he cant recognise that or adapt a style of play to accomodate that then its best that we get in another manager that can rather than selling Bent.
If its a decision between keeping Bent and keeping AM...I know which one I'd choose.
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Then the entire defence and half the midfield just stood around doing the square root of fcuk all.
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I've only been supporting Villa since Saturday. Is this what it's supposed to be like?
We are a stopover for glory hunters on their way to Mancity. Everyone needs to support us for a few weeks to make themsleves fully justified in making the move. It's a sort of ritual self cleansing exercise. You will need to hang on for a few more games and take the punishment!
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Cuellar Dunne Collins Warnock
Albrighton Petrov N'Zogbia
Ireland Gabby
Bent
From now on.
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Plaudits are due not just to Brendan Rodgers but to Paulo Sousa and Roberto Martinez for creating then maintaning that pass and move style of play...and above all to the Swansea Board, who've had the vision and the courage to stick to their guns through their appointments.
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I've only been supporting Villa since Saturday. Is this what it's supposed to be like?
We are a stopover for glory hunters on their way to Mancity. Everyone needs to support us for a few weeks to make themsleves fully justified in making the move. It's a sort of ritual self cleansing exercise. You will need to hang on for a few more games and take the punishment!
One of your best aftab! :)
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Warnock...whoops! (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/nathan-dyer-v-aston-villa/)
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I was going to say a lot about the performance when I left VP however I can't be bothered just like some of or most of our players today.
Petrov and Gabby should not have played today. Subbing ireland just didn't make sense to me and oh what did Hutton do when he came on?
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KRS, the point is, we are effectively playing with 10 men, he doesn't touch the ball.
I don't know what the answer is, but i do know we played Arsenal, Stoke then Chelsea and the performances and results got better and better.
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Warnock...whoops! (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/nathan-dyer-v-aston-villa/)
It was shocking from Dunne as well.
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Warnock...whoops! (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/nathan-dyer-v-aston-villa/)
Will they ever learn that there is a right time to play football at the back, and then there are times when you just twat it away. Feels like more often than not we hoof it when it could be played and play it when it needs to be hoofed.
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With the style of play that McLiesh seems to have as a fall back position Bent becomes a passenger for large parts of the game.
When he does coe back to try and get the ball he has little options ahead of him and invariably looses the ball.
Villa need to decide if we can / want to play a formation and style that gets the best out of Bent, if we can't then we need to consider other options.
Bent was not the reason we lost, it was down to defensive cock ups and a lack of tactical ability from McLiesh.
Our home form is woeful and considering this, the reaction to McLiesh from the Villa crowd has been quite balanced.
His honeymoon period (to use a term) is over and he needs really to start managing a recovery, after all that's what he is paid for!
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I was going to say a lot about the performance when I left VP however I can't be bothered just like some of or most of our players today.
Petrov and Gabby should not have played today. Subbing ireland just didn't make sense to me and oh what did Hutton do when he came on?
Im not a Hutton fan either but in fairness Cuellar did ask to come off cuz he had a knock
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I was going to say a lot about the performance when I left VP however I can't be bothered just like some of or most of our players today.
Petrov and Gabby should not have played today. Subbing ireland just didn't make sense to me and oh what did Hutton do when he came on?
Carlos went off injured which is why Hutton came on i think.
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Warnock...whoops! (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/nathan-dyer-v-aston-villa/)
It does not get any better does it. I'm not one for scapegoating but he fucked right up, and so soon into the game.
I still can not blame AM. For us to let that goal in and then the next one 3 minutes into the second half is just madness and no manager could prevent it from happening.
For some reason we undone all our hard work from the last few matches and now it is time for AM to do his work before the next match.
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I said on the matchthread, that this weekend, is the weekend where the big team lose against the small teams.
Fulham 2 Arsenal 1.. Villa 0 - Swansea 2, Sunderland 1 - city 0 et.c....
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What was Warnock trying to do with that pass anyway?
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Warnock should be docked a weeks wages for that piece of utter, incompenent, negligence alone.
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On days like today i wonder what is the point in supporting villa. A total waste of time, energy and money. we've become a laughing stock. why put my kids through the misery?
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Warnock should be docked a weeks wages for that piece of utter, incompenent, negligence alone.
Swansea should give him a backhander for that intricate deliciously skilful play.
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Umm, what happened? I was at the Rangers game at Ibrox and I said to the guy next to me that I hope we don't lose to Swansea after beating Chelsea. And I find this scoreline when I get home.
What gives?
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Warnock should be docked a weeks wages for that piece of utter, incompenent, negligence alone.
He has been woeful for months but with no competition we have been stuck with him . Now Enda Stevens is here there is no excuse - fuck him off NOW.
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Alex McLeish understands frustrated Aston Villa fans
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16386727.stm
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Warnock...whoops! (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/nathan-dyer-v-aston-villa/)
Will they ever learn that there is a right time to play football at the back, and then there are times when you just twat it away. Feels like more often than not we hoof it when it could be played and play it when it needs to be hoofed.
I would just like to take the time to apologise here to all those sitting around me for the foul-mouthed, abusive and vitriolic language aimed at Mr. Warnock for his monumentally stupid cock-up.
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Alex McLeish understands frustrated Aston Villa fans
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16386727.stm
If he understands us than he would've left already.
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I don't blame Bent. He must be more frustrated than us FFS. He needs service and isn't getting any. We are so slow in the build up especially at VP and have to resort to knocking high balls into a crowded box. Marc should have started. Zog and Ireland are giving it effort and looking good at last and with Gabby we should be pulling defences all over as they try and combat out attacking threat.
Chelsea were scared to death by Gabby for example. We simply need to play it fast, create movement and keep it low. We did it on Saturday and at home perhaps we should play 2 up front or Gabby/Ireland behind Benty.
Not Gabby out wide. IMHO
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What McLeish said to WM in the post match interview defied belief.
Firstly he said the players were tired and perhaps more changes should have been made. Then when given a bone by the interviewer actually tried to get away with saying that Swansea have the luxury of being able to make the number of changes they did over us.
Has it really come down to Swansea fukin City having a bigger and better squad than us?!
If true, then why didn't he insist on more cash at the start of the season. If not true, he really is pissing in the wind with these sorts of excuses.
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Alex McLeish understands frustrated Aston Villa fans
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16386727.stm
If he understands us than he would've left already.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. I very much doubt he sent the team out tonight to play that way. He's saying what we all feel and it has to be hugely frustrating to him also.
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Not been st holder for couple years , my youngest is desperate to go villa park with me , but darent take him as I am shit scared it will put him off , sad state were in
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How can he insist on more cash when probably told when taking the job you do not have any cash, work with what you have got.
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Out passed by a team that plays the game properly.
You have to take your hat off the them for not changing their style for the Prem.
That said, THAT mistake from Warnock really did give them a lift and had the opposite effect on us.
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I don't blame Bent. He must be more frustrated than us FFS. He needs service and isn't getting any. We are so slow in the build up especially at VP and have to resort to knocking high balls into a crowded box. Marc should have started. Zog and Ireland are giving it effort and looking good at last and with Gabby we should be pulling defences all over as they try and combat out attacking threat.
Chelsea were scared to death by Gabby for example. We simply need to play it fast, create movement and keep it low. We did it on Saturday and at home perhaps we should play 2 up front or Gabby/Ireland behind Benty.
Not Gabby out wide. IMHO
No service?! There were 15 corners.
Bent doesn't move. He just doesn't. He can only check back for the ball in the middle of the park with his back to goal, in which 99% of the time will result in a backwards pass. He incapable of turning around a defender, or taking a touch into space and going forward. He is useless when is comes to tracking back and closing down markers, and has little vision for the pass when going forward.
That being said, don't sell him off. N'Zogbia, Albrighton, Gabby and Ireland are more than enough to get him goals. He needs to work harder and get himself in to better positions so can see more chances. McLeish has no idea how to work around Bent, or how to create a supply line. Losing a goal threat and a man who a manager must point out before the match to his defense would be a big blow to Villa. Regardless if the man can only score a tap in, it's a quality we need on our team. Moreover, I don't trust McLeish with the funds that would come in return. He's got a poor track record in January and I don't want all the former to become to current. Stephen Ireland can become the CM we've been "shopping" for.
Darren Bent needs to increase his productivity, while I see little hope for McLeish. Home record says it all for me, they/we don't want you here and it'll be hard luck to change that. Great bloke but below average manager. You're in over your head mate.
up the villa.
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Bent show all the traits of a player that simply doesn't want to know, he has the ability providing he doesn't have to work to hard to get a result, that's not Villa, you can see over the seasons how much effort Gabby has to put in just to get a sniff.
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If he was told that funds were limited then dont take the fukin job or don't bleat about squad sizes when beaten at home so comprehensively by a promoted side that hasn't won away all season.
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The after-match bile that is normally directed at Hutton has been masking how poor a player Warnock is. At least Hutton tries, whereas Warnock just seems to be not bothered with his consistent incompetence. I hope Stevens is half decent because we need to replace Warnock asap.
All of the opposition teams know he's our weak link as well, right wingers around the country must rub their hands with glee when they see his name on the team sheet. I think Dyer is a good player from what I've seen of him, but he absolutely rinsed Warnock and it was just embarrassing. Perhaps Houllier had the right idea when he dropped him into the reserves for most of last season.
Fair play to Swansea, they absolutely did us and I've no complaints. I just hope that someone at boardroom level sat through this debacle and got as annoyed as I did.
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
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Just got home from the game. Why can't McLeish call a spade a spade? Why does he say some fans are frustrated when the reality is that a very large number of fans are extremely angry. He makes it sound like we are miffed about some minor matter when I for one am hopping mad - along with everybody who sits by us in Holte about unbelievable inconsistencies in Villa performances.
We were given a footballing lesson by a side who have not won away from home in the top flight since 1982.
Swansea were quicker, marked closer, were fitter and hungrier than we were . We once again played like team who hate each other's guts and the manager once again showed his inability to cope at premiership level with any tactic other than nick a goal and hang on.
In all the years I have been following Villa I have never seen us so bad at corner kicks both attacking them and defending them. What do they do all day on the training ground?
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Right first attended game this season. Thankfully there were enough empty seats so I could sit next to my mate and his family in the Sir Witton Lane stand.
What can I say. Anti Football 0 Football 2. A smart manager who manages and managed his resources in a more smart way than a more experienced opponent.
Guzan 5/10 - 1 bad mistake but give the bloke a break his kicking is still better than Bozzies, just.
Cuellar 6/10 - I thought was good though reacted slowly for their 2nd. (Hutton 5/10 when he came on empitomy of Oo Eck's philosophy)
Warnock 2/10 - 1 very bad mistake and all round woeful 1st half, though seemed to at least be able to last the match fitness wise. If he is the best we have then we are fupped.
Collins 5/10 - See Hutton
Dunne 6/10 - Done ok. Solid no more
Clark 6/10 - started well and faded. Defo potential.
PEtrov 6/10 - see Clark minus potential.
CNZ 3/10 - rubbish! The Real Passenger.
Ireland 4/10 - at least he tried but largely ineffective. Why he was taken off before CNZ is beyond me. (Albrighton 6/10).
Gabby 5/10 - practically a wing back at times - how does that work?
Bent 4/10 - no service, no effectiveness.
Not sure the next time I will part with £40 to watch Villa.
Finally thanks to Mr Woodhall the gent as it meant I was able to purchase the most recent 4 issues of H&V.
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The after-match bile that is normally directed at Hutton has been masking how poor a player Warnock is. At least Hutton tries, whereas Warnock just seems to be not bothered with his consistent incompetence. I hope Stevens is half decent because we need to replace Warnock asap.
All of the opposition teams know he's our weak link as well, right wingers around the country must rub their hands with glee when they see his name on the team sheet. I think Dyer is a good player from what I've seen of him, but he absolutely rinsed Warnock and it was just embarrassing. Perhaps Houllier had the right idea when he dropped him into the reserves for most of last season.
Fair play to Swansea, they absolutely did us and I've no complaints. I just hope that someone at boardroom level sat through this debacle and got as annoyed as I did.
Warnock was outstanding against Chelsea.
Players make mistakes but managers send the 11 out with instructions and motivational thoughts. McMinge screwed up today by playing tired players and by trying to play a game-style that doesn't suit us (slow build-up stuff is really not our bag). He should have kept the same formation as against Chelsea but freshened up the players by including Gardner and / or Bannan.
The biggest problem - I suspect - was attitudinal: and that's down to the manager and coaching staff.
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I don't blame Bent. He must be more frustrated than us FFS. He needs service and isn't getting any. We are so slow in the build up especially at VP and have to resort to knocking high balls into a crowded box. Marc should have started. Zog and Ireland are giving it effort and looking good at last and with Gabby we should be pulling defences all over as they try and combat out attacking threat.
Chelsea were scared to death by Gabby for example. We simply need to play it fast, create movement and keep it low. We did it on Saturday and at home perhaps we should play 2 up front or Gabby/Ireland behind Benty.
Not Gabby out wide. IMHO
No service?! There were 15 corners.
Bent doesn't move. He just doesn't. He can only check back for the ball in the middle of the park with his back to goal, in which 99% of the time will result in a backwards pass. He incapable of turning around a defender, or taking a touch into space and going forward. He is useless when is comes to tracking back and closing down markers, and has little vision for the pass when going forward.
That being said, don't sell him off. N'Zogbia, Albrighton, Gabby and Ireland are more than enough to get him goals. He needs to work harder and get himself in to better positions so can see more chances. McLeish has no idea how to work around Bent, or how to create a supply line. Losing a goal threat and a man who a manager must point out before the match to his defense would be a big blow to Villa. Regardless if the man can only score a tap in, it's a quality we need on our team. Moreover, I don't trust McLeish with the funds that would come in return. He's got a poor track record in January and I don't want all the former to become to current. Stephen Ireland can become the CM we've been "shopping" for.
Darren Bent needs to increase his productivity, while I see little hope for McLeish. Home record says it all for me, they/we don't want you here and it'll be hard luck to change that. Great bloke but below average manager. You're in over your head mate.
up the villa.
Unfortunately no debate here. It is exactly what I said. Corners = high balls except when like today on a few occasions we knock knee high or totally unexpected to the front post. However, I will debate his ability to turn a defender or make space: it is why he has a proven record of scoring goals. He instinctively dummy runs the defender and finds the ball. Otherwise I agree with your post especially about AMc needing to find the formula to utilise him because as you say he doesn't track back. Enough.
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
Don't know about toys out the pram bit, but I can't agree about taking for granted teams like Swansea, Swansea are no fantastic side as sure as eggs is eggs they will be in the bunch fighting of relegation by the end, yes they play some pretty football but they are no dynamic goal scoring machine of a side, and this was there first win in 10.
We where beaten today by a team that outplayed us at we do best, that is counter attacking with pace and playing with pacey wide players, Villa are a cultured side with players like, Bent, Ireland N'Zogbia, Cuellor, Agbonlahor, top players in the Premiership, we should have won, simple as that and at very least should have got a point, and for Alex McCliesh to say in his post match interview that it was the lads fault to concede so early and to make so many mistakes at the back, then to have them in at half time, do nothing whatsoever about impressing upon them not to concede early in the 2nd for a killer 2nd goal, and when we have done so, turnaround and excuse himself by saying "i can't go out there on the pitch" to stop it, sorry that's just weak excuses.
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If we lose our next two (in the Prem) we could see ourselves in the bottom 5.
:-\
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Warnock...whoops! (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/nathan-dyer-v-aston-villa/)
It does not get any better does it. I'm not one for scapegoating but he fucked right up, and so soon into the game.
I still can not blame AM. For us to let that goal in and then the next one 3 minutes into the second half is just madness and no manager could prevent it from happening.
It was an individual error but if the manager was instilling a positive attitude in the defenders and central midfield players, Warnock could have quite easily turned, stepped forward and played the ball to the right where both Collins and Cuellar were unmarked. As it was, he tried to play a lazy lay-off to Dunne. Even if it had of reached Dunne he would have had Dyer straight on top of him so would have had to either quickly bang it forward or play it back to Guzan who himseld would have been under pressure to kick it long.
We do this all of the time. Rather than looking to be positive and creative many of our players just look to play it back for somebody else which always seems to end with a long ball up field. This is down to poor coaching.
Swansea showed us to great effect how to play short passes in the middle of the pitch, whether it be on the edge of their own penalty area or further forwards. They made football look simple. Our method of play made our players look simple.
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Typical Villa, one step forward and a hop skip and a Carl Lewis type leap back.
There really isn't that much wrong with our squad apart from the defense. There is a big reason why MON after a while and then Houllier didn't have Warnock anywhere near the team. It's there for all to see and it is costing us game after game. The horrific effort apart he was pulled this way and that by a championship player.
Even so, Swansea played us all over the park without making our keeper make too many stops. We didn't trouble them as at 2 - 0 we were never getting back into it with a very well organized outfit in front of us.
At least AM tried something different when chasing the game. The crowd seemingly didn't get it.
Why have we become so useless at set pieces?
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
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We played exactly the same tactics as Swansea today, 1 up front, 2 wide players, and 2 holding midfielders.
The difference was, they did'nt give us a goal, we gave them 2.
The confidence attained in the result on sat, seemed to completely evapourate after the 1st goal, the mistakes increased,confidence diminished and the moaning louder.Teams don't have to play well to beat us at VP, we help them.The team is far too fragile at home.
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The after-match bile that is normally directed at Hutton has been masking how poor a player Warnock is. At least Hutton tries, whereas Warnock just seems to be not bothered with his consistent incompetence. I hope Stevens is half decent because we need to replace Warnock asap.
All of the opposition teams know he's our weak link as well, right wingers around the country must rub their hands with glee when they see his name on the team sheet. I think Dyer is a good player from what I've seen of him, but he absolutely rinsed Warnock and it was just embarrassing. Perhaps Houllier had the right idea when he dropped him into the reserves for most of last season.
Fair play to Swansea, they absolutely did us and I've no complaints. I just hope that someone at boardroom level sat through this debacle and got as annoyed as I did.
Warnock was outstanding against Chelsea.
Players make mistakes but managers send the 11 out with instructions and motivational thoughts. McMinge screwed up today by playing tired players and by trying to play a game-style that doesn't suit us (slow build-up stuff is really not our bag). He should have kept the same formation as against Chelsea but freshened up the players by including Gardner and / or Bannan.
The biggest problem - I suspect - was attitudinal: and that's down to the manager and coaching staff.
He played well but Chelsea don't really play with any width, they're much more compact than most of the other teams in the league and Warnock didn't have anyone running at him directly like Dyer did today. Any half decent winger will normally turn him inside out.
I agree that McLeish should have freshened up the team though, even though we don't have much of a squad bringing in some fresher players would have helped. Again the problem with Warnock is that he hasn't had anyone really challenging him for his place, I think it's a waste playing Clark there as he's better of in central defence or in midfield and after that there isn't anyone else.
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So swansea have spent millions more than us?
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
Challenging teams at VP that have spent millions less than us would be a start.
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It's is so bloody frustrating. I feel for Eck in a way though. If he'd have made 4 or 5 changes and lost, he'd have been slaughtered. He makes one change and he's told he should have rested more and in hindsight maybe he should have. It's a tough one to call. I presume he was hoping the momentum from Saturday would have got them through. Either way, i'm hoping it's a one off after the upturn in recent form.
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
I never say this, ever.. but absolutely terrible post.
It's not about the squad at hand, but the club. Aston Villa should never lose at home to a promoted side. Swansea played some excellent football today and deserved all the points, but for a large club like Aston Villa to roll over and serve up this dross is unacceptable. And to accept the fact that we are on the same level, or below, clubs like Swansea is absolutely absurd. Generalizing us in the group of "7th to 20th" is nonsense, the gap between clubs in 7th and 16th is miles, let alone Blackburn. Then to bring up the "Well, they spend millions" argument is ridiculous. Villa have spent tons on the current squad, whether they meet their transfer values is completely irrelevant.
You're voluntary acceptance of a pessimism is why there is so much negativity at the club. We're Aston Villa Football Club and we don't want to lose to clubs who have hardly ever established themselves in the history of the FA.
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So swansea have spent millions more than us?
I think you've misunderstood. I'm talking about the table. At the end of the day it's how the league ends up that matters, not one off games. Over the course of the season you're going to get poor results like today and excellent results like Chelsea but our ability will see us finish where we deserve to finish, which I reckon this season will be 10th-12th and would represent a solid start under Big Eck.
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You just knew we would lose after winning at Chelsea. Only Villa could do that.
Defensive mistakes cost us today, you just can't give any team 2 goals as easily as we did. Quite why we gave Swansea so much room in the first half is beyond me, Eck could not have watched them beforehand because we just sat back and never closed them down. I don't know what formation we played out there but it lacked any sort of cohesion.
The only plus points were Ireland for 60 minutes, N'Zogbia & Dunne. However, why Ireland is being lauded by some on the basis on 1 good game in 18 months is beyond me.
Two games in 48 hours is too much to expect at this level.
Today Clarke looked like a centre half playing in midfield.
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Just got back, the game was over once Warnock gave them the goal.One of the best passing sides I have seen with no bite up front, they didnt need it we awarded them the goals.
With Bent it is like playing with 10 men, his lack of movement made it very easy for them as did our pedestian build up play and lack of tecnique, every Swansea player did thier job, marked harrased and when on the ball passed it.
Mcliesh got the starting line up wrong thier was no need to change a winning team but you can not legislate for the stupid mistakes we continue to make and the poster above who pointed out that we are useless at corners is spot on.
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
Villa have basically got a very decent squad, certainly a better team of players then the likes of Swansea, look at it this way, Chelsea have a super rich squad of bristling talent, so what is the common denominator it was is going wrong at Chelsea and what is going wrong at Villa, comes down to one thing and one thing only.
Mates of mine are Chelsea fans, they can't understand how Abramovich not normally known for his patience is being so tolerant of what they describe as a utterly clueless example of a manager, the same could easily said for AM.
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Warnock...whoops! (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/nathan-dyer-v-aston-villa/)
Will they ever learn that there is a right time to play football at the back, and then there are times when you just twat it away. Feels like more often than not we hoof it when it could be played and play it when it needs to be hoofed.
The worrying part for me was that even after that cock up and the later one involving Guzan, they still kept doing the same things over and over again.
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So swansea have spent millions more than us?
I think you've misunderstood. I'm talking about the table. At the end of the day it's how the league ends up that matters, not one off games. Over the course of the season you're going to get poor results like today and excellent results like Chelsea but our ability will see us finish where we deserve to finish, which I reckon this season will be 10th-12th and would represent a solid start under Big Eck.
The games of today shape the table of tomorrow. To brush this game off as a "one off" is daft, we already gave them a point in the away fixture and we gifted them 3 points today.
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Exactly correct OMVF. It is all down to coaching, both the coaching they get and their willingness to be coached. Time and time again they play the lazy option. The ball bobs from head to head in the middle of the park and the brave thing is to let it drop to feet and place an accurate pass. How many time do you see a Villa player take the lazy option of keeping the ball in the air and losing possession. Add to this our lack of movement off the ball to give men in possession a target and you get the shambles of a game we saw today.
There was one instance when Carlos Cuellar had the ball close to the Swansea corner flag and not one single Villa player moved to take his pass. He is a defender he is not going to dribble round the full back. He did well to get into that position but all it earned was yet another wasted corner.
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So swansea have spent millions more than us?
I think you've misunderstood. I'm talking about the table. At the end of the day it's how the league ends up that matters, not one off games. Over the course of the season you're going to get poor results like today and excellent results like Chelsea but our ability will see us finish where we deserve to finish, which I reckon this season will be 10th-12th and would represent a solid start under Big Eck.
The games of today shape the table of tomorrow. To brush this game off as a "one off" is daft, we already gave them a point in the away fixture and we gifted them 3 points today.
Spot on, business end of the season, it just gets harder, those points today will cost us dearly, there are 2 teams below us in Sunderland and Fulham that I firmly believe will finish above us, another 2 that are real contenders to pip us if they get a good run or spend in Jan, so that puts us right in the mix, fact is Robbie Savage may just be right touting Villa as the surprise package.
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If you are going to play football from the back, then have defenders who can do it, and more importantly defenders who have pace, so that they have the confidence to play from the back.
Swansea played well today, but we let them, and to be honest, they did'nt look that dangerous.
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The problem (to me anyway) is that this was no surprise. As I said on the pre-match thread ...
It would be just like us to ruin today be screwing up at home to Swansea.
After beating Chelsea away, Swansea at home shouldn't be viewed that way. Sadly, it feels like it's the Villa way.
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The worrying thing (Saturday apart) is that we do not look like scoring. Since Norwich at home, that is 9 games and we have only managed 6 goals (3 on Saturday) with us scoreless in 6 of those.
We are creating very few chances as we seem to have an inability to put pressure on teams. 15 corners today and we didn't look like scoring from any of them. Also, why is it when other teams have corners and we head it clear to the edge of the penalty area, it goes straight to one of their players. When the opposition head it clear we never seem to have any players on the edge of the area.
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15 corners today and we didn't look like scoring from any of them. Also, why is it when other teams have corners and we head it clear to the edge of the penalty area, it goes straight to one of their players. When the opposition head it clear we never seem to have any players on the edge of the area.
I've often thought that. It's as though the opposition sneak on a couple of extra players at set pieces.
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I'm sorry Bent is a contributing factor to us not playing well.
He scores tap ins, he isn't a goal machine, he is a goal hanger.
We don't play a system or have the personnel to accommodate him, so what's the point?
It's no coincidence he came back in and the performance suffered. The ball never sticks up front it just keeps coming back thus applying constant pressure on ourselves.
So having attacking minded players like Ireland, Bannan, Albrighton, N'Zogbia and Gabby arent the right type of personnel to provide Bent with service to score goals? We could certainly do with some more guts in midfield but surely those players have the footballing intelligence to supply Bent with the type of service he thrives on to get his 20+ goals per season. He is a player capable of doing that and he has the players around him to help him reach that target, so it can only be the system that is wrong...who is responsible for the system and the tactics?
Bent is a goal scorer, but he doesn't contribute to the play at all, he is just waiting for someone to put it on a plate for him.
Gabby up top backs into the defender holds the ball up and brings the rest of the team into play. Bent doesn't.
People cannot seriously say its just a coincidence we've looked a completely different team the 3 previous games while playing without Bent.
Bent would be perfect for a team that dominate possession, but there must be a reason he has never played consistently for a top 10 team.
I would honestly sell him and strengthen the squad, but that's just me.
What you're actually arguing against is a style of player issue rather than Bent contributing to the team. Bent isnt and has never been the type of player to muscle defenders off the ball and hold up play...his strengths are playing off the shoulder of the last defender, his positional awareness in the box and putting the ball in the back of the net. If you're argument for selling Bent is right, then we may as well play Heskey up front instead but the end result would be the same...we wouldnt score goals, we would concede at the back and lose games.
I can see the problems with Bent and agree with your points about his style of play, but its for the manager to use the correct tactics and style of play to utilise the strengths of our greatest asset on the pitch. If he cant recognise that or adapt a style of play to accomodate that then its best that we get in another manager that can rather than selling Bent.
If its a decision between keeping Bent and keeping AM...I know which one I'd choose.
Bent is not helping the team, we was too happy to spend his time in front or along side the 2 centre halves, I saw him make 1 diagonal run the whole game and not try and run the channels at all. Its not good enough to say he isnt getting the service, he is not making himself available.
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If you are going to play football from the back, then have defenders who can do it, and more importantly defenders who have pace, so that they have the confidence to play from the back.
Swansea played well today, but we let them, and to be honest, they did'nt look that dangerous.
But that's it, their not at all dangerous. They're just well organized. Well organized and given 2 gifts is a recipe for disaster.
I will say it again. This window, we need two better than our current really crap full backs. Full backs that look to have the measure of a Wayne Routledge for fuck sake.
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Also, why is it when other teams have corners and we head it clear to the edge of the penalty area, it goes straight to one of their players. When the opposition head it clear we never seem to have any players on the edge of the area.
I always think this, but I just wonder whether all fans think this about their team, that the ball isn't rolling for them.
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The worrying thing (Saturday apart) is that we do not look like scoring. Since Norwich at home, that is 9 games and we have only managed 6 goals (3 on Saturday) with us scoreless in 6 of those.
We are creating very few chances as we seem to have an inability to put pressure on teams. 15 corners today and we didn't look like scoring from any of them. Also, why is it when other teams have corners and we head it clear to the edge of the penalty area, it goes straight to one of their players. When the opposition head it clear we never seem to have any players on the edge of the area.
I think the biggest shock and concern today was how little we created up front, for me more so than the errors in defence, had we pegged back Swansea and give them something to think about we would have seen a different approach from them rather than the ever increasing confidence they portrayed as the game went on.
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Sadly today sums up perfectly the highs and lows of being a Villa supporter - remember when we finished 2nd under SGT and we turned in the performance of the season at Spurs to go top of the league on the Wednesday, only to follow it up with a clueless 3 nil reverse at home to HMP Wimbledon on the Saturday.
Some days we're the shit and some days we're the seagull, we'll finish mid-table above Swansea win a few then lose a few but don't forget we're still in the Cup. ;)
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Warnock...whoops! (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/nathan-dyer-v-aston-villa/)
Will they ever learn that there is a right time to play football at the back, and then there are times when you just twat it away. Feels like more often than not we hoof it when it could be played and play it when it needs to be hoofed.
The worrying part for me was that even after that cock up and the later one involving Guzan, they still kept doing the same things over and over again.
I can't comment on the second one yet but for the first the easy option for Warnock was to play the ball back to Dunne and then move wide or inside to offer a return once Dyer moved after the ball. Or a different option was to turn towards the byline. A mistake there is not as damaging and it could always be put out for touch in a pinch. Instead he turned inside which meant he was under pressure straight away, he had no get out option and the ball was on his weaker foot. This is a player who had played at the highest level for over a decade making a mistake like that. What can you do?
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The worrying thing (Saturday apart) is that we do not look like scoring. Since Norwich at home, that is 9 games and we have only managed 6 goals (3 on Saturday) with us scoreless in 6 of those.
We are creating very few chances as we seem to have an inability to put pressure on teams. 15 corners today and we didn't look like scoring from any of them. Also, why is it when other teams have corners and we head it clear to the edge of the penalty area, it goes straight to one of their players. When the opposition head it clear we never seem to have any players on the edge of the area.
I think the biggest shock and concern today was how little we created up front, for me more so than the errors in defence, had we pegged back Swansea and give them something to think about we would have seen a different approach from them rather than the ever increasing confidence they portrayed as the game went on.
We created 15 corners. That's not little in the way of creativity. We were once upon a time a force from such. Even allowing for our lack of ability from this set piece we should at least be getting something to bobble in or around the area but there's never a threat from our corners. What do we do all week to remedy this?
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If you gift a side, any side, be it Swansea, Chelsea or Arsenal, as we have done (generous aren’t we?) then you’ll struggle.
Lerner needs to allow McLeish to wheel, deal and spend a bit of cash to up the quality. A centre half partner for Dunne, two central midfielders; it just has to be done.
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Also, why is it when other teams have corners and we head it clear to the edge of the penalty area, it goes straight to one of their players. When the opposition head it clear we never seem to have any players on the edge of the area.
I always think this, but I just wonder whether all fans think this about their team, that the ball isn't rolling for them.
It is not about the ball rolling for you but having your players in the right position for set-pieces. Both in attack and defence we over crowd some areas and do not have players in others. Overall it looks a chaotic mess.
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The worrying thing (Saturday apart) is that we do not look like scoring. Since Norwich at home, that is 9 games and we have only managed 6 goals (3 on Saturday) with us scoreless in 6 of those.
We are creating very few chances as we seem to have an inability to put pressure on teams. 15 corners today and we didn't look like scoring from any of them. Also, why is it when other teams have corners and we head it clear to the edge of the penalty area, it goes straight to one of their players. When the opposition head it clear we never seem to have any players on the edge of the area.
I think the biggest shock and concern today was how little we created up front, for me more so than the errors in defence, had we pegged back Swansea and give them something to think about we would have seen a different approach from them rather than the ever increasing confidence they portrayed as the game went on.
We created 15 corners. That's not little in the way of creativity. We were once upon a time a force from such. Even allowing for our lack of ability from this set piece we should at least be getting something to bobble in or around the area but there's never a threat from our corners. What do we do all week to remedy this?
Our corners are Sunday League level, get alll the big boys up and swing it in and let them all charge after it, god its dull
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15 corners today and we didn't look like scoring from any of them. Also, why is it when other teams have corners and we head it clear to the edge of the penalty area, it goes straight to one of their players. When the opposition head it clear we never seem to have any players on the edge of the area.
I've often thought that. It's as though the opposition sneak on a couple of extra players at set pieces.
Some people will tell you there's nothing the manager can do if the team isn't following instructions but it's things like this that make me think they are. It's been the same all season. When we defend we leave people unmarked 20-25 yards out which means they get time and space on the follow up and we never have anyone in that deep role, it's always 2 back defending, 1 taking the corner and 7 in the box (generally standing still).
I've said it a few times already this season but the vast majority of our problems in midfield and attack could be remedied with competent coaching. The same applies to defending set pieces.
The only thing we can genuinely blame on the players is the amount of individual errors in the defense. Myself and Mac both mentioned it on the match thread, we have a back 4 that always looks like it has a mistake waiting to happen. MoN is responsible for 3 of them and AM for the other (Cuellar had a bad one today but is usually much more consistent). Until we replace 2-3 of them we're always going to be prone to days like today where a team doesn't actually have to do anything to create chances.
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
I never say this, ever.. but absolutely terrible post.
It's not about the squad at hand, but the club. Aston Villa should never lose at home to a promoted side. Swansea played some excellent football today and deserved all the points, but for a large club like Aston Villa to roll over and serve up this dross is unacceptable. And to accept the fact that we are on the same level, or below, clubs like Swansea is absolutely absurd. Generalizing us in the group of "7th to 20th" is nonsense, the gap between clubs in 7th and 16th is miles, let alone Blackburn. Then to bring up the "Well, they spend millions" argument is ridiculous. Villa have spent tons on the current squad, whether they meet their transfer values is completely irrelevant.
You're voluntary acceptance of a pessimism is why there is so much negativity at the club. We're Aston Villa Football Club and we don't want to lose to clubs who have hardly ever established themselves in the history of the FA.
Of course the gap is miles because you're going to get sides who ride the crest of a wave such as Newcastle and side like Blackburn who are generally having a shocker. The squads on paper though are really not that different in the ability they contain. Look at the prices for Newcastle against QPR in a couple of weeks. Newcastle are 4/6 at home. Do you not think they'd be a lot shorter if the general consensus was that there is a massive gulf in class? Manure were 1/7 to beat Blackburn the other day ffs! and why the hell shouldn't Villa lose at home to a promoted side? You make it sound like we're Barcelona!
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I think you are right Bren'd.............we are desperate for a good LB.
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We played exactly the same tactics as Swansea today, 1 up front, 2 wide players, and 2 holding midfielders.
The difference was, they did'nt give us a goal, we gave them 2.
The confidence attained in the result on sat, seemed to completely evapourate after the 1st goal, the mistakes increased,confidence diminished and the moaning louder.Teams don't have to play well to beat us at VP, we help them.The team is far too fragile at home.
I agree that the mistake which led to goal seemed to knock the stuffing out of fans and the players alike. The crass stupidity of the act could have been designed by some evil anti-villa demon to inflict maximum damage on our fragile psyches. Of course, this should not be the case and we had most of the game to put it right.
We have seen 3 Warnocks: the first was a fairly good if somewhat impetuous player; the second, post-injury, and rushed back too soon according to many fans, was a Permanent Disaster in Progress; the current incarnation is 21st Century Schizoid Man - great one game and diabolical the next.
You could feel the tide turning against AM today, and it is going to be very difficult to hold it back.
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
I never say this, ever.. but absolutely terrible post.
It's not about the squad at hand, but the club. Aston Villa should never lose at home to a promoted side. Swansea played some excellent football today and deserved all the points, but for a large club like Aston Villa to roll over and serve up this dross is unacceptable. And to accept the fact that we are on the same level, or below, clubs like Swansea is absolutely absurd. Generalizing us in the group of "7th to 20th" is nonsense, the gap between clubs in 7th and 16th is miles, let alone Blackburn. Then to bring up the "Well, they spend millions" argument is ridiculous. Villa have spent tons on the current squad, whether they meet their transfer values is completely irrelevant.
You're voluntary acceptance of a pessimism is why there is so much negativity at the club. We're Aston Villa Football Club and we don't want to lose to clubs who have hardly ever established themselves in the history of the FA.
Of course the gap is miles because you're going to get sides who ride the crest of a wave such as Newcastle and side like Blackburn who are generally having a shocker. The squads on paper though are really not that different in the ability they contain. Look at the prices for Newcastle against QPR in a couple of weeks. Newcastle are 4/6 at home. Do you not think they'd be a lot shorter if the general consensus was that there is a massive gulf in class? Manure were 1/7 to beat Blackburn the other day ffs! and why the hell shouldn't Villa lose at home to a promoted side? You make it sound like we're Barcelona!
You're logic is so flawed and based on poor experiential knowledge I'm not going to bother with an extended response, I'm sorry. You can't justify our misfortune with Manchester United's inability to see off Blackburn. Nor will I accept betting odds as a valid explanation. V
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Bent show all the traits of a player that simply doesn't want to know, he has the ability providing he doesn't have to work to hard to get a result, that's not Villa, you can see over the seasons how much effort Gabby has to put in just to get a sniff.
Bent joined to play alongside Young and Downing.
He isn't anymore, and how it shows.
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We played exactly the same tactics as Swansea today, 1 up front, 2 wide players, and 2 holding midfielders.
The difference was, they did'nt give us a goal, we gave them 2.
The confidence attained in the result on sat, seemed to completely evapourate after the 1st goal, the mistakes increased,confidence diminished and the moaning louder.Teams don't have to play well to beat us at VP, we help them.The team is far too fragile at home.
I agree that the mistake which led to goal seemed to knock the stuffing out of fans and the players alike. The crass stupidity of the act could have been designed by some evil anti-villa demon to inflict maximum damage on our fragile psyches. Of course, this should not be the case and we had most of the game to put it right.
We have seen 3 Warnocks: the first was a fairly good if somewhat impetuous player; the second, post-injury, and rushed back too soon according to many fans, was a Permanent Disaster in Progress; the current incarnation is 21st Century Schizoid Man - great one game and diabolical the next.
You could feel the tide turning against AM today, and it is going to be very difficult to hold it back.
McLeish will have an uphill battle for the rest of his Villa career, no matter the length. He had no idea what he was getting into. He thought with a few wins and our fickle nature we would all begin to praise him but this man is in way over his head. I want to win, and do it with style. And if we can't always win, I at least want it to look like we gave a valiant effort.
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Bent show all the traits of a player that simply doesn't want to know, he has the ability providing he doesn't have to work to hard to get a result, that's not Villa, you can see over the seasons how much effort Gabby has to put in just to get a sniff.
Bent joined to play alongside Young and Downing.
He isn't anymore, and how it shows.
This is true, if for no other reason than Young play's for Man U and Downing for the Red Lions reserves ;) good point.
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
I never say this, ever.. but absolutely terrible post.
It's not about the squad at hand, but the club. Aston Villa should never lose at home to a promoted side. Swansea played some excellent football today and deserved all the points, but for a large club like Aston Villa to roll over and serve up this dross is unacceptable. And to accept the fact that we are on the same level, or below, clubs like Swansea is absolutely absurd. Generalizing us in the group of "7th to 20th" is nonsense, the gap between clubs in 7th and 16th is miles, let alone Blackburn. Then to bring up the "Well, they spend millions" argument is ridiculous. Villa have spent tons on the current squad, whether they meet their transfer values is completely irrelevant.
You're voluntary acceptance of a pessimism is why there is so much negativity at the club. We're Aston Villa Football Club and we don't want to lose to clubs who have hardly ever established themselves in the history of the FA.
Of course the gap is miles because you're going to get sides who ride the crest of a wave such as Newcastle and side like Blackburn who are generally having a shocker. The squads on paper though are really not that different in the ability they contain. Look at the prices for Newcastle against QPR in a couple of weeks. Newcastle are 4/6 at home. Do you not think they'd be a lot shorter if the general consensus was that there is a massive gulf in class? Manure were 1/7 to beat Blackburn the other day ffs! and why the hell shouldn't Villa lose at home to a promoted side? You make it sound like we're Barcelona!
You're logic is so flawed and based on poor experiential knowledge I'm not going to bother with an extended response, I'm sorry. You can't justify our misfortune with Manchester United's inability to see off Blackburn. Nor will I accept betting odds as a valid explanation. V
Are you a Lawyer????????
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
I never say this, ever.. but absolutely terrible post.
It's not about the squad at hand, but the club. Aston Villa should never lose at home to a promoted side. Swansea played some excellent football today and deserved all the points, but for a large club like Aston Villa to roll over and serve up this dross is unacceptable. And to accept the fact that we are on the same level, or below, clubs like Swansea is absolutely absurd. Generalizing us in the group of "7th to 20th" is nonsense, the gap between clubs in 7th and 16th is miles, let alone Blackburn. Then to bring up the "Well, they spend millions" argument is ridiculous. Villa have spent tons on the current squad, whether they meet their transfer values is completely irrelevant.
You're voluntary acceptance of a pessimism is why there is so much negativity at the club. We're Aston Villa Football Club and we don't want to lose to clubs who have hardly ever established themselves in the history of the FA.
Of course the gap is miles because you're going to get sides who ride the crest of a wave such as Newcastle and side like Blackburn who are generally having a shocker. The squads on paper though are really not that different in the ability they contain. Look at the prices for Newcastle against QPR in a couple of weeks. Newcastle are 4/6 at home. Do you not think they'd be a lot shorter if the general consensus was that there is a massive gulf in class? Manure were 1/7 to beat Blackburn the other day ffs! and why the hell shouldn't Villa lose at home to a promoted side? You make it sound like we're Barcelona!
Finishing 10-12 would be fine, I doubt too many fans would have a massive problem with that if it wasn't for the fact that we're doing with people like Heskey and Warnock in the side and with performances that see 1 shot on target at home to team with a combined value equal to our striker. You can act out that this is acceptable as much as you like but you'll be in the minority. Football is an entertainment business and at the moment we're barely even trying to be entertaining.
Chelsea was a good performance and we're were good in patches against arsenal (I thought stoke was solid but still pretty rubbish) but other than those the only other decent performances all season have been against the bottom 2. 4 performances in 20 games isn't good enough and can't be papered over by talking about it being a transition season.
Even if you don't have the right players to play how you want you coach what you have to get them as close as you can and then replace the ones who don't step up. If we're doing this then the quality of coaching, or the plan itself, isn't good enough. If we're not doing this then we're f****d because buying and selling an entire squad isn't going to happen any time soon and things will only get worse in the mean time.
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
I never say this, ever.. but absolutely terrible post.
It's not about the squad at hand, but the club. Aston Villa should never lose at home to a promoted side. Swansea played some excellent football today and deserved all the points, but for a large club like Aston Villa to roll over and serve up this dross is unacceptable. And to accept the fact that we are on the same level, or below, clubs like Swansea is absolutely absurd. Generalizing us in the group of "7th to 20th" is nonsense, the gap between clubs in 7th and 16th is miles, let alone Blackburn. Then to bring up the "Well, they spend millions" argument is ridiculous. Villa have spent tons on the current squad, whether they meet their transfer values is completely irrelevant.
You're voluntary acceptance of a pessimism is why there is so much negativity at the club. We're Aston Villa Football Club and we don't want to lose to clubs who have hardly ever established themselves in the history of the FA.
Of course the gap is miles because you're going to get sides who ride the crest of a wave such as Newcastle and side like Blackburn who are generally having a shocker. The squads on paper though are really not that different in the ability they contain. Look at the prices for Newcastle against QPR in a couple of weeks. Newcastle are 4/6 at home. Do you not think they'd be a lot shorter if the general consensus was that there is a massive gulf in class? Manure were 1/7 to beat Blackburn the other day ffs! and why the hell shouldn't Villa lose at home to a promoted side? You make it sound like we're Barcelona!
You're logic is so flawed and based on poor experiential knowledge I'm not going to bother with an extended response, I'm sorry. You can't justify our misfortune with Manchester United's inability to see off Blackburn. Nor will I accept betting odds as a valid explanation. V
Are you a Lawyer????????
In law school at the moment ;D
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We were just piss poor today. No excuses and no single player can be singled out for such a disgraceful performance - they were all as bad as each other in my opinion. I think they thought because they beat a very inconsistent chelsea team that they could turn up again and do the same to swansea. Im sorry but you cannot to that at this level. Swansea have shown this season that they are a good team and play 'Football' with confidence. They showed us a footballing lesson today.
What the hell was Warnock doing for the 1st goal? Time to get rid of him. No wonder GH dropped him last season as he knew he wasn't good enough.
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We played exactly the same tactics as Swansea today, 1 up front, 2 wide players, and 2 holding midfielders.
The difference was, they did'nt give us a goal, we gave them 2.
The confidence attained in the result on sat, seemed to completely evapourate after the 1st goal, the mistakes increased,confidence diminished and the moaning louder.Teams don't have to play well to beat us at VP, we help them.The team is far too fragile at home.
I agree that the mistake which led to goal seemed to knock the stuffing out of fans and the players alike. The crass stupidity of the act could have been designed by some evil anti-villa demon to inflict maximum damage on our fragile psyches. Of course, this should not be the case and we had most of the game to put it right.
Indeed, I mentioned earlier that after they scored we still had approx 90 mins (including injury time) to turn things round. How can we show real fight , passion and ability when we go behind (Arsenal and Chelsea for example) and at other times look as though it's all over and we have given up as soon as the opposition score (Spurs, WBA, Dippers, today as examples). Why does the mentality fluctuate so much?
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
I never say this, ever.. but absolutely terrible post.
It's not about the squad at hand, but the club. Aston Villa should never lose at home to a promoted side. Swansea played some excellent football today and deserved all the points, but for a large club like Aston Villa to roll over and serve up this dross is unacceptable. And to accept the fact that we are on the same level, or below, clubs like Swansea is absolutely absurd. Generalizing us in the group of "7th to 20th" is nonsense, the gap between clubs in 7th and 16th is miles, let alone Blackburn. Then to bring up the "Well, they spend millions" argument is ridiculous. Villa have spent tons on the current squad, whether they meet their transfer values is completely irrelevant.
You're voluntary acceptance of a pessimism is why there is so much negativity at the club. We're Aston Villa Football Club and we don't want to lose to clubs who have hardly ever established themselves in the history of the FA.
Of course the gap is miles because you're going to get sides who ride the crest of a wave such as Newcastle and side like Blackburn who are generally having a shocker. The squads on paper though are really not that different in the ability they contain. Look at the prices for Newcastle against QPR in a couple of weeks. Newcastle are 4/6 at home. Do you not think they'd be a lot shorter if the general consensus was that there is a massive gulf in class? Manure were 1/7 to beat Blackburn the other day ffs! and why the hell shouldn't Villa lose at home to a promoted side? You make it sound like we're Barcelona!
You're logic is so flawed and based on poor experiential knowledge I'm not going to bother with an extended response, I'm sorry. You can't justify our misfortune with Manchester United's inability to see off Blackburn. Nor will I accept betting odds as a valid explanation. V
Are you a Lawyer????????
In law school at the moment ;D
8) ;D ;D ;D, If i could only predict results as lucky a guess as that was..... ;)
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I hope you were watching Randy, just like you always do..
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Went to the game today and we were very leggy but I am convinced we could have got something from the game but for Warnocks woeful error, the minute that happened all the confidence gained from the Chelsea win drained away in an instant the description of him by Adrenachrome was excellent, he is a total and utter liability, the league table suddenly looks a lot more scary especially with the Fulham win, I am sure we will pull through but god it feels so shit.UTV
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New left back is a priority.
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Petrov wasn't fit, neither was Clarke. Bent should have stayed on the bench with Albrighton keeping his place. Collins needs to be sold and Warnock shot. Oh and giving Bannan 5 minutes was an insult.
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Petrov wasn't fit, neither was Clarke. Bent should have stayed on the bench with Albrighton keeping his place. Collins needs to be sold and Warnock shot. Oh and giving Bannan 5 minutes was an insult.
It was baffling to me that Petrov was the only starting CM to go the full 90. He picks up a knock at the Bridge and then goes full time. Down 2-0, keep your defensive minded CM's in and take out Stevie?!
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It's is so bloody frustrating. I feel for Eck in a way though. If he'd have made 4 or 5 changes and lost, he'd have been slaughtered. He makes one change and he's told he should have rested more and in hindsight maybe he should have. It's a tough one to call. I presume he was hoping the momentum from Saturday would have got them through. Either way, i'm hoping it's a one off after the upturn in recent form.
I don't feel for Eck, I said before the game we had to rotate like Swansea have against us and spurs.
Mcleish needs to show faith in the whole squad otherwise what's the point?
Swansea's two best players are Sinclair and Dyer, he usually plays both on either Wing, but he played one against spurs and one against us.
He has faith in his squad and it shows on the pitch.
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
I never say this, ever.. but absolutely terrible post.
It's not about the squad at hand, but the club. Aston Villa should never lose at home to a promoted side. Swansea played some excellent football today and deserved all the points, but for a large club like Aston Villa to roll over and serve up this dross is unacceptable. And to accept the fact that we are on the same level, or below, clubs like Swansea is absolutely absurd. Generalizing us in the group of "7th to 20th" is nonsense, the gap between clubs in 7th and 16th is miles, let alone Blackburn. Then to bring up the "Well, they spend millions" argument is ridiculous. Villa have spent tons on the current squad, whether they meet their transfer values is completely irrelevant.
You're voluntary acceptance of a pessimism is why there is so much negativity at the club. We're Aston Villa Football Club and we don't want to lose to clubs who have hardly ever established themselves in the history of the FA.
Of course the gap is miles because you're going to get sides who ride the crest of a wave such as Newcastle and side like Blackburn who are generally having a shocker. The squads on paper though are really not that different in the ability they contain. Look at the prices for Newcastle against QPR in a couple of weeks. Newcastle are 4/6 at home. Do you not think they'd be a lot shorter if the general consensus was that there is a massive gulf in class? Manure were 1/7 to beat Blackburn the other day ffs! and why the hell shouldn't Villa lose at home to a promoted side? You make it sound like we're Barcelona!
You're logic is so flawed and based on poor experiential knowledge I'm not going to bother with an extended response, I'm sorry. You can't justify our misfortune with Manchester United's inability to see off Blackburn. Nor will I accept betting odds as a valid explanation. V
Ok so you just throw out the view of people who are actually paid to analyse every aspect of each team and come up with the correct probability for each outcome? Very sound logic there indeed...
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The worrying thing (Saturday apart) is that we do not look like scoring. Since Norwich at home, that is 9 games and we have only managed 6 goals (3 on Saturday) with us scoreless in 6 of those.
We are creating very few chances as we seem to have an inability to put pressure on teams. 15 corners today and we didn't look like scoring from any of them. Also, why is it when other teams have corners and we head it clear to the edge of the penalty area, it goes straight to one of their players. When the opposition head it clear we never seem to have any players on the edge of the area.
I think the biggest shock and concern today was how little we created up front, for me more so than the errors in defence, had we pegged back Swansea and give them something to think about we would have seen a different approach from them rather than the ever increasing confidence they portrayed as the game went on.
We created 15 corners. That's not little in the way of creativity. We were once upon a time a force from such. Even allowing for our lack of ability from this set piece we should at least be getting something to bobble in or around the area but there's never a threat from our corners. What do we do all week to remedy this?
N'zogbia is not a good set piece kicker imo. He never looks likely to score a free kick and his crosses are always too high and too floated, same when Petrov takes them. Ireland's were a bit better, at least they were closer to the 6 yard box.
For a team that struggles to score from open play, you'd think we would be much better at corners, certainly SHA score quite a few last season.
Suppose we've been spoilt from Ashley Young over the last few seasons and the likes of Laursen and Carew being huge threats in the air.
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
I never say this, ever.. but absolutely terrible post.
It's not about the squad at hand, but the club. Aston Villa should never lose at home to a promoted side. Swansea played some excellent football today and deserved all the points, but for a large club like Aston Villa to roll over and serve up this dross is unacceptable. And to accept the fact that we are on the same level, or below, clubs like Swansea is absolutely absurd. Generalizing us in the group of "7th to 20th" is nonsense, the gap between clubs in 7th and 16th is miles, let alone Blackburn. Then to bring up the "Well, they spend millions" argument is ridiculous. Villa have spent tons on the current squad, whether they meet their transfer values is completely irrelevant.
You're voluntary acceptance of a pessimism is why there is so much negativity at the club. We're Aston Villa Football Club and we don't want to lose to clubs who have hardly ever established themselves in the history of the FA.
Of course the gap is miles because you're going to get sides who ride the crest of a wave such as Newcastle and side like Blackburn who are generally having a shocker. The squads on paper though are really not that different in the ability they contain. Look at the prices for Newcastle against QPR in a couple of weeks. Newcastle are 4/6 at home. Do you not think they'd be a lot shorter if the general consensus was that there is a massive gulf in class? Manure were 1/7 to beat Blackburn the other day ffs! and why the hell shouldn't Villa lose at home to a promoted side? You make it sound like we're Barcelona!
You're logic is so flawed and based on poor experiential knowledge I'm not going to bother with an extended response, I'm sorry. You can't justify our misfortune with Manchester United's inability to see off Blackburn. Nor will I accept betting odds as a valid explanation. V
Ok so you just throw out the view of people who are actually paid to analyse every aspect of each team and come up with the correct probability for each outcome? Very sound logic there indeed...
Trusting the bookies is like trusting the weatherman.
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First home match in ages, and what a game to pick! Warnock had an absolute shocker. Nuff said. I thought we tried to pass it around a bit, but Swansea just seemed to be a lot better at it, and fully deserved the win. Ireland had another good game I thought.
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I don't this 'we looked leggy' or 'tired' business, did Swansea not play at the weekend ?
They scored within 5 minutes, we had a further 85+ to get something out of the game, yet failed to get a single effort on target, other that a nod back from Collins, that registered as an effort on target !!
Not a single effort on target !!!!..and its not the first time.
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I am on your side Villadelph.
Over the seven decades I have followed Villa the one single force which has preventing Aston Villa go the same way as other football clubs with great history has been the capacity of the Villa fans to demand that the team lives up to its history.
Even in the very depths when we went down to the Third Division and teams of volunteers came in to Villa Park to give the place a coat of paint and fans dug deep to actually put up the money to buy Neil and Bruce Rioch the single unifying factor which kept us going was We Are Aston Villa. Without pride you are nothing.
We have a right to expect our club to provide the personnel - players, manager, coaches, everything - to beat Swansea City. If you only hope for something in life you will never get it. You have to demand better than that performance today.
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It's is so bloody frustrating. I feel for Eck in a way though. If he'd have made 4 or 5 changes and lost, he'd have been slaughtered. He makes one change and he's told he should have rested more and in hindsight maybe he should have. It's a tough one to call. I presume he was hoping the momentum from Saturday would have got them through. Either way, i'm hoping it's a one off after the upturn in recent form.
I don't feel for Eck, I said before the game we had to rotate like Swansea have against us and spurs.
Mcleish needs to show faith in the whole squad otherwise what's the point?
Swansea's two best players are Sinclair and Dyer, he usually plays both on either Wing, but he played one against spurs and one against us.
He has faith in his squad and it shows on the pitch.
I don't feel for Eck either, in fact I have no sympathy for any top manager, they get paid the kind of money each week that most of us slave away to earn years for, as far as i'm concerned every time they don't come up with the result feels like they are getting it for nothing, we all have pressure and stress, phuk me you want to try and run a business in this climate, naaa, sorry no sympathy whatsoever from me, for me they are in a dream job.
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I don't this 'we looked leggy' or 'tired' business, did Swansea not play at the weekend ?
They scored within 5 minutes, we had a further 85+ to get something out of the game, yet failed to get a single effort on target, other that a nod back from Collins, that registered as an effort on target !!
Not a single effort on target !!!!..and its not the first time.
They made 8 or 9 changes to their squad that tied Tottenham on the weekend, and they still beat us..
That says a lot.
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I am on your side Villadelph.
Over the seven decades I have followed Villa the one single force which has preventing Aston Villa go the same way as other football clubs with great history has been the capacity of the Villa fans to demand that the team lives up to its history.
Even in the very depths when we went down to the Third Division and teams of volunteers came in to Villa Park to give the place a coat of paint and fans dug deep to actually put up the money to buy Neil and Bruce Rioch the single unifying factor which kept us going was We Are Aston Villa. Without pride you are nothing.
We have a right to expect our club to provide the personnel - players, manager, coaches, everything - to beat Swansea City. If you only hope for something in life you will never get it. You have to demand better than that performance today.
Thanks for the support. If we don't demand greatness we will never see it.
upthevilla.
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I agree with you Brian.
The owners have allowed us to become also rans, and worse than that seem content to be also rans.
If we are not very careful our future will follow the path Newcastle took (without the promotions) we could end up the new Wolves
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I can accept that greatness comes around once in a blue moon but that dreadful tripe on display today had better not make itself known for a long time.
An off colour away day is one thing you expect now and then. How dare they mug us off with that bobbins at Villa Park.
I dont want to say anything else about it, I dont want to remember it in any capacity and I'm not going to burn my bra becasue of it in isolation.
I dont even blame the manager beacuse he did pretty much what I expected him to do and more or less what I'd have done. They just didn't play for him which may or may not be his fault, I dont know. It's certainly theirs.
I do wish we had a bit more strength in depth to sit some of these arseholes on their tush for a week or three, but short of playing kids, we don't.
Any more of this nonsense and we should probably do just that.
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I spent the day in Barcelona so I was blissfully unaware of the score until now.
I know I didn't see the games, but what I can do to make it feel better is pretend that we dicked Swansea 3-1 and Chelsea spanked us 2-0 for a net total of 3 points.
(OK, it's not making me feel better).
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We were very shit at times.
Clueless at others.
Both for most of the game.
Swansea gave us (and a lot of others watching) a lesson in how to work, run and pass for each other as a team.
Don't we work on keeping possession in training? Just to raise ONE point among many possibles: Does it take a genius to work out that lumping the ball up in the air to someone who is a bit shit in the air (Bent) is a complete waste of valuable possession. I worked this out myself while playing in the Sutton Sunday League (Divs 2,1 and Prem) many years ago. If Bent had played for my pub side the way he played today he'd have been dropped next week! Along with................
And I wouldn't have taken our best player off!
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Supporters & players alike should have been confident of getting a positive result today after
improved performances over the past three matches but how wrong can you be -
Second best all over the park and in the technical area - no way will a team managed by McLeish play
how Swansea did today -
The system and players needed to be changed at halftime but our manager didn't have the bottle
or nouse to do it - but the team should take responsibility for a lack lustre performance
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Just got back. Does anybody want to buy a season ticket?
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Just got back. Does anybody want to buy a season ticket?
There's no market for them.
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Just got back. Does anybody want to buy a season ticket?
Easier to sell tins of Tartan paint.
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Just got back. Does anybody want to buy a season ticket?
I'll take it off your hands for £100. That is, you pay me £100 of course.
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Just got back. Does anybody want to buy a season ticket?
There's no market for them.
The board will realise this in the summer, but sadly it will be too late I fear!
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Where are we going to bag the 17 points we need to stay up?
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Where are we going to bag the 17 points we need to stay up?
Interesting conversation on 5Live today discussing 40 points not keeping a team up :-(
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There is one positive from today. It can't be too long until we see the Heskey shuffle again.
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They just didn't play for him which may or may not be his fault ...
And that, I think, is the real nub of it.
We have players who could 'get up' for the game on Saturday but not today. We had a manager who did not get the players' attitudes right for today.
I can only speculate but my take is that McMinge is a "nice but dim" sort of guy who is not subtle enough and tactically aware enough to deal with both the players and the demands of the games. One-offs: okay - it's may be easy to get the team buzzing. But it's the sustainability of peak performance that is difficult (as PubeHead found out).
Maybe playing the kids is the answer. Maybe being brave and offloading a couple of the defensive dinosaurs is right. Maybe walking out now is right.
I just do not want McGinge to become the classic sports-quiz queston: "Which manager took two diffferent teams down in successive seasons from the Premiership?" [clue: they were both from the same city]
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There is one positive from today. It can't be too long until we see the Heskey shuffle again.
Surprised its not a YouTube hit. Imagine the hits it would get.
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Relax everybody I have done the BBC predictor and we finish 14th on 42 points, bet that makes you feel a lot better :)
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Norwich offered Lambert the job when his side schooled them to a big defeat when Bryan Gunn was in charge.
Can we offer that Brendan Rodgers a job?
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Positives from today.
I never forked out £30+ to watch that shit...yet again.
I feel for those who have forked out to watch that garbage for the umpteenth time this season.
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Only seen the goals. They reminded me of Englands defence against Germany in the 2010 World Cup. Totally shambolic.
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6 hour. Round trip. On my own. Wayne fucking Routledge. There's only one thing that can cheer me up now, and that's Trigger Happy TV.
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It is basically back to the real world isn't it? The Chelsea game was a happy diversion from the dirge that we had seen in recent weeks, and will probably be remembered as the kick up the arse that Chelsea needed rather than being a progressive step for Villa.
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6 hour. Round trip. On my own. Wayne fucking Routledge. There's only one thing that can cheer me up now, and that's Trigger Happy TV.
If only we'd kept him and passed on Heskey instead ;)
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There's nothing quite like The Villa to bring you right back down to earth with a bump is there.
New Years eve's highlight of the Chelsea result, then that today.
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To top it all it's back to work tomorrow...can't get worse!
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Positives from today.
I never forked out £30+ to watch that shit...yet again.
I feel for those who have forked out to watch that garbage for the umpteenth time this season.
Thanks. Your pity means a great deal to me at this difficult time.
Positives for me are that I don't take this anywhere near as seriously as y'all.
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To top it all it's back to work tomorrow...can't get worse!
I think I'd rather be at work than sit through that again.
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If I was AM I would be looking to try another midfield system in the FA Cup to see if we can come up with a formation that gets the best out of Bent and Gabby.
I would be tempted to go with a diamond formation, do away with the wide players and play a narrower game. I would have Clark at the back, Petrov and Bannan in the middle, with Ireland at the point playing behind Bent and Gabby.
We need to be looking at different systems and see which players can adapt so that it does give us options to switch during matches.
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Just heard that was Routledge's first goal in the top flight, put that with Swansea's first ever goal at Villa, first ever win at Villa and first away win in the premiership, thats 4 records broke in one game.
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according to Mcleish when pressed on WM on why Swansea made seven changes in rotation today but he just bought in bent back in, making them look a lot fresher than us, Mcleish replied than Brendan Rogers has the SQUAD to do that but he doesn't, what a sad state of affairs, this is fuckin Swansea for god sake that mcleish is intimating have a better squad than the mighty Aston Villa..........................thanks a lot randy
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At the end of the game there were more stewards between the dugout and tunnel than in the rest of the stadium. Clearly the club were expecting some vitriol to be fired at AM but sadly most fans in that section had already left in disgust.
What a sad state of affairs. 6,000 empty seats, no atmosphere, a dreadful malaise, players who fail to do the basics, an inept management team and yet another home humiliation.
What summed it up for me was our first substitution. Those in the Holte that could be bothered to sing were calling for Albrighton. Clearly struggling for any idea at all the Manager decides that it's a good option and tells Marc to warm up. A couple of minutes later MA is stripped an ready to go but the management huddle don't know who to bring off and spend an age pointing around the pitch. 5 minutes later Albrighton gets fed up/cold, puts his coat on and sits down again. AM had decided to bring him on but didn't have a clue how to accommodate him and finally ended up making the worst possible decision. Macleish is such a poor manager it's hardly surprising that confidence is so low and was completely out thought by Brendan Rogers today which let's face it, isn't difficult.
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according to Mcleish when pressed on WM on why Swansea made seven changes in rotation today but he just bought in bent back in, making them look a lot fresher than us, Mcleish replied than Brendan Rogers has the SQUAD to do that but he doesn't, what a sad state of affairs, this is fuckin Swansea for god sake that mcleish is intimating have a better squad than the mighty Aston Villa..........................thanks a lot randy
What a shit excuse for Mcleish to make. How many Swansea players had we ever heard of before this season? It must of cost a fraction of our squad to put their team together and they look so much better it's embarrassing. We are short in depth but we're even shorter in management skills.
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What will really piss you off is when you consider that Brendan Rogers clearly did his homework for both the Spurs and Villa games, and made tactical changes for the benefit of his squad whilst retaining their style of play in both games. This comes from good management, coaching, training and a great team ethic. None of those are apparent at Villa. What did AM do before the Chelsea game? I very much doubt there was much or any work done to prepare the players for the Swansea game...if there was, then whatever they did simply wasnt good enough.
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Some people need to stop throwing their toys out the pram and acting like we're some sort of force these days who should be steam rolling teams like Swansea at home.
You're daft if you think we shouldn't have dismantled Swans today. Coming off a win at the Bridge Swansea should have been chopped liver.
This is exactly why there's so much negativity around Villa fans at the moment. Too many fans think we've got a better squad than we actually have. The reality is that we're in that group of teams from 7th-20th who are on course to finish exactly where our ability should see us finish. I honestly don't understand where some people think we should be? Challenging teams that have spent millions more than us?
No, not getting completely outclassed by a side that have just been promoted, and have drawn 3 and lost 6 away from home.
I don't think thats too high an expectation.
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Just watched the Warnock "incident" again. I didn't see anyone quickly either put an arm around his shoulder and say that mistakes happen or come up an give him a rollocking for being a pillock. Not sure which is preferable but the fact that neither happened suggests a lack of leadership, togetherness and care on the park. Worrying.
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Warnock is a liability. Obviously messed up for the first by being a twat then fell flat on his arse for the second. He seems to be having a competition with Hutton for who can be the biggest pile of shit in a Villa shirt this season.
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If Bent had been playing for Swansea , they probably would have won 5-0 . They created things , we created fook all .
and why our defenders keep passing it back to the goalkeeper , a goalkeeper who is not the most confident when the ball is coming towards him , no brains between the lot of them .
and is that AMC excuse , we got beat because they have a bigger squad . Not good enough , we got beat because they played the game properly , passed to each other for a start and embarrassing were a joy to watch compared to us .
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Two terrible errors for the goals and our lack of movement at times was absolutely appalling. This against a side who passed the ball for fun and clearly believed in themselves and their system of play.
We had no chance. That second half was as desperate as it gets for me.
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An awful awful performance. Especially on the back of such an excellent showing at Chelsea.
Swansea have been atrocious away from home, yet looked like the Welsh Barcelona yesterday. The ease with which they carved us open was embarrassing.
Warnock's mistake was as bad as any I've seen as a Villa fan (and I include Peter Enckelman in that).
As for the manager, well three things:
Firstly, why change the formation that was so slick, incisive and creative against Chelsea, and for large parts of the game against Arsenal too.
Secondly, why on earth was Ireland taken off? He looked by far the most likely player to produce something.
Thirdly, why in interviews of late, is he making us come across as incredibly small time? The comment about Swansea having more strength in depth was poor.
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Our backline (Dunne aside) encapsulate everything that is killing my love for the game. Limited ability, expensively purchased, earning a kings ransom and being outplayed by players of allegedly inferior ability!
Warnock is generally poor and was atrocious today, Chelsea aside he is at best average and one of the top MON gratuities IMHO. Going to Villa park is an aboslute chore and has been for a few seasons. I am so disheartened by it all, it feels worse than the O'Dreary era as our expectations were lesser then.
Gutted!
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Here's the thing about that game - I actually don't overly mind that we played poorly. It happens. Even the best sides have an off day. So, after a string of good/decent showings, I can live with us having a bad day at the office. Even if we were top of the league that can happen - see Man City at Sunderland.
However, when that happens you should have the back up of being a well drilled and hard working side, so still have a 'hard to beat element' about you. It's basics. And we gifted them two goals through defending that can only be described as comical. You could even argue that should a goal be shipped, then set pieces give you a chance to draw level if you can't break a side down. We had 14 corners and how many resulted in an attempt on goal?
The bizarre thing is that these are the things I thought AM would bring us. Solid defense and having the basics right. We have neither of those two things.
One last thing - a bit if credit to Swansea, who played superbly. After Chelsea I was a little miffed, if not exactly surprised, that the media concentrated on them being poor and gave us no credit. It would be hypocritical if we did the same here, so hands up to a good footballing side how put in what could well be their performance of the season.
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One [of many] incident's during the game did concern me.
It was when Dunne had the free kick awarded against him and he really went for the Ref, he then followed this up with a further altercation with the Swansea player which led to him pushing the player and getting booked. You could tell that Dunne was wound up and if he had the need to do a tackle very quickly he may have gone in hard and got sent off.
The thing that concerned me was that our Captain Petrov was very close to the incident and did nothing to calm Dunne down. He just let it happen right in front of him. Dunne could easily have been sent off in those few minutes and needed to be led away.
Our on the field leader was very absent at that moment and in my opinion should have stepped in and shown some leadership
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I honestly don't believe we played any differently to how we have played ALL season.
We are a team that is set up so poorly that we will never produce anything like the football Swansea produced yesterday. Even our recent improvement saw us lose to Arsenal, play out a goaless draw at Stoke (with hardly any creative football at all) and beat Chelsea having been battered from the majority of the 2nd half, although admittedly at least we look like a team that day.
Can you name me another team that when they are 2-0 down allows the opposition goalkeeper to roll the ball to the RB who in turn passes it to the centre half who in turn passes it to the LB. Whilst our lone striker meanders after the ball like a headless chicken whilst every single other player is in our own half.
In that 10 seconds you saw exactly why we will never amount to anything other than a Championship side under this manager. If it aint this season it will be next.
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We have 2 main problems. The defence goes from solid to stupid in a blink of an eye. And we simply do not create enough clear cut chances to score. I think the defence can be sorted with a couple of new players. I think we already have the creativity and firepower in the squad but it needs tactics, leadership and plan Bs and Cs. However I know that AM is not the man to do these things. So will continue to roll and pitch and hopefully avoid the drop. The Swansea game highlighted this perfectly.
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I cant see Swansea going down and I hope they dont . But If they did , I would get their manager in . He really impressed me yesterday with what players he has .
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I cant see Swansea going down and I hope they dont . But If they did , I would get their manager in . He really impressed me yesterday with what players he has .
After yesterdays performance and from previous performances, I cant see Swansea going down either. But you're right, if they did go down, we should definitely go after their manager. He is getting the best out of his players and they have a sense of belief when coming up against stronger opposition i.e. Man Utd (although they lost, they played very well) & Spurs (drew with them)
Swansea deserved that result yesterday as we were really bad. We had numerous corners but the delivery on some were poor or our players were not in the right position to win headers. The scoreline yesterday could have been a lot worse.
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It's been argued above that you never change a winning team AND that we should have rotated as Swansea did to keep the players fresh.
It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.
We gifted them two unbelievably soft goals which then allowed them to sit and play the ball around in their own half for what seemed like hours on end.
I thought we did OK in the first half without getting the slice of luck they were given. Second half we seemed to run out of ideas but I suspect they'd have felt far less secure defending the leas had we kept it to 1.
After Some decent performances this was a reality check, we've still got a lot of work to do. We're capable of playing good football but also prone to the odd horror show. The next step is to be consistently on the positive side of that spectrum.
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Our perfomance was poor what the hell was Warnock doing with that ball that led to there first goal and I think we need to get better service to Bent before he decides he as had enough.
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watching the game again on football first . I did piss myself laughing when Sturridge ( co commentator ) was calling Warnock , Neil Warnock.
To be fair to Neil , he would have had a much better game .
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Can you name me another team that when they are 2-0 down allows the opposition goalkeeper to roll the ball to the RB who in turn passes it to the centre half who in turn passes it to the LB. Whilst our lone striker meanders after the ball like a headless chicken whilst every single other player is in our own half.
They do that because they want us to go chasing the ball so that they can then pass it around us. It's such an advantage when you have a keeper who is comfortable on the ball rather than one who is shit scared of it like Guzan. If we commit players to try to press that leaves gaps elsewhere.
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Can you name me another team that when they are 2-0 down allows the opposition goalkeeper to roll the ball to the RB who in turn passes it to the centre half who in turn passes it to the LB. Whilst our lone striker meanders after the ball like a headless chicken whilst every single other player is in our own half.
They do that because they want us to go chasing the ball so that they can then pass it around us. It's such an advantage when you have a keeper who is comfortable on the ball rather than one who is shit scared of it like Guzan. If we commit players to try to press that leaves gaps elsewhere.
At 0-0 they are, but at 0-2 up they're doing it to waste up time and take the sting out of te game - not that we put much 'sting' into it in the first place. We needed to go 4-4-2 and try to stop this much earlier than we did.
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The one thing the manager can not do is allow for players making school boy errors, not once but twice. Yes Warnocks was so bad, a professional footballer should have his wages docked, but Guzan again at the start of the second half, gives all the impetus back to them.
This is nothing new to AM's side, MON's teams were often guilty of it. AM maybe has to do what MON did do, just let the wasters waste in the stiffs, or better still get rid at whatever cost, because there is definatly something rotting away at the inside of our great club and has been for about 3 years.
Then we see time and time again, the defence being given the ball back by the midfield, mainly Petrov and anyone with one eye can see they are not comfortable with it, resulting in panic hoof or lets put another player in danger, as long as it is not me.
When we have the ball in midfield, then we hit another problem, the lack of movement by what I would say is our 4 attacking outlets,the 2 central options Gabby and Bent, do not offer enough and please do not say that Gabby running the channels is an outlet, it is normally not, because he has then taken space from one of our other outlets, our wide player, or dragged over yet another defender, to then not worry about Gabby and double up on the wide option. So very little movement will mean the likes of Petrov has the excuse to move backwards yet again, back to square one.
The other worrying thing is and has been highlighted by others, and was again in evidence with Huttons assault on Vermallen, Dunnes last night and the general lack of having a player or players on the pitch, to get hold of the individual player, calm him down and just as important with Warnocks and Guzanz fuck up, to either give them both barrels or a crumb of comfort, Petrov does not do it and he at the moment holds the armband.
AM play the kids, because it is your more experienced players that are letting you down.
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Just read my post again and believe it or not it is not meant as a rant about Petrov, as he has been a brighter light than most this season.
Oh my god, maybe thats the most worrying part.
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Can you name me another team that when they are 2-0 down allows the opposition goalkeeper to roll the ball to the RB who in turn passes it to the centre half who in turn passes it to the LB. Whilst our lone striker meanders after the ball like a headless chicken whilst every single other player is in our own half.
They do that because they want us to go chasing the ball so that they can then pass it around us. It's such an advantage when you have a keeper who is comfortable on the ball rather than one who is shit scared of it like Guzan. If we commit players to try to press that leaves gaps elsewhere.
Yes I fully understand that and maybe thats Ok to a certain extent especially whilst the scoreline is level or we are away from home. But when you are at home and 2-0 down then surely the onus is on us to change the way we are set up and at least try to put them under some kind of pressure. Ten men in our own half whilst they tip tap along their own penalty area aint gonna change the outcome and allows them to kill time and the game.
Surely we could have played a highline pushed Gabby and Nzog on to their full back and aleast tried to stop them playing in their own half. Put them under pressure and win the ball in their half may have gave us a chance of getting back into the game
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Good post Gulf.
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Im still trying to figure out why Guzan kept running backwards when the ball was passed to him! :o
He should have run towards it and do what we do best HOOF it!
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Can you name me another team that when they are 2-0 down allows the opposition goalkeeper to roll the ball to the RB who in turn passes it to the centre half who in turn passes it to the LB. Whilst our lone striker meanders after the ball like a headless chicken whilst every single other player is in our own half.
They do that because they want us to go chasing the ball so that they can then pass it around us. It's such an advantage when you have a keeper who is comfortable on the ball rather than one who is shit scared of it like Guzan. If we commit players to try to press that leaves gaps elsewhere.
Yes I fully understand that and maybe thats Ok to a certain extent especially whilst the scoreline is level or we are away from home. But when you are at home and 2-0 down then surely the onus is on us to change the way we are set up and at least try to put them under some kind of pressure. Ten men in our own half whilst they tip tap along their own penalty area aint gonna change the outcome and allows them to kill time and the game.
Surely we could have played a highline pushed Gabby and Nzog on to their full back and aleast tried to stop them playing in their own half. Put them under pressure and win the ball in their half may have gave us a chance of getting back into the game
The most frustrating thing was that we didn't try to close them down and get the ball off them.
Against Arsenal, we did, and we gave ourselves the chance to play more. Against Swansea, we didn't.
They all looked suspiciously like they'd been on the piss the night before.
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My New Year's resolution is working. I have remained very calm in the wake of this defeat and haven't posted anything I'll regret. If we turn in another shocker in our next game, I will probably revert to type.
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Im still trying to figure out why Guzan kept running backwards when the ball was passed to him! :o
He should have run towards it and do what we do best HOOF it!
Screamed to me of a lack of confidence in his kicking ability.
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It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.
Very good point. I'd imagine yesterday's performance was the accumulation of almost five years progressive football coaching at Swansea, from the young Martinez to Paulo Sousa and now to the experienced, Mourinho trained, Brendan Rodgers.
That's a vision the Swansea board should be congratulated for and ours should take note.
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Im still trying to figure out why Guzan kept running backwards when the ball was passed to him! :o
He should have run towards it and do what we do best HOOF it!
Screamed to me of a lack of confidence in his kicking ability.
Can I just say in Guzan's defence that he is very left footed but players kept on playing it to his right foot. The clearance for the goal was probably about as far as you could expect him to ping it with his standing foot.
Thats fine but had he ran towards the ball and hoof it one, the ball would still have gone that little bit further than when he ran backwards to give a weak clearence which resulted in the 2nd goal. Im not at all blaming Guzan fully for the 2nd goal as it was crap defending again but he needs to show some confidence when put under that pressure. surely you practice using your weaker foot in training?
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The fact we did not concede a corner let alone concede from a corner is a plus. Whilst Clarks development to play another match in premier league are the major positives can take from that match.
I think when the recording of this match is played back to the players - Warnock, Cuellar, Dunne Guzan and Collins can see where they went wrong and that they will do better in next league match.
Warnock like the whole defence was immense against Chelsea not many players have kept Daniel Sturridge quiet this season. I think the loss yesterday shows we are not quite there yet but with a few tweaks, intergration of up and coming players and shrewd moves then we will certainly finish top half most similar to last season.
Thats where we are at the moment
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They all looked suspiciously like they'd been on the piss the night before.
Indeed. I asked on the Match thread if Warnock was pissed. It was a serious question.
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Can you name me another team that when they are 2-0 down allows the opposition goalkeeper to roll the ball to the RB who in turn passes it to the centre half who in turn passes it to the LB. Whilst our lone striker meanders after the ball like a headless chicken whilst every single other player is in our own half.
They do that because they want us to go chasing the ball so that they can then pass it around us. If we commit players to try to press that leaves gaps elsewhere.
Yes and there is no way out bright lads were going to fall into that trap and risk losing the game 3-0.
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Im still trying to figure out why Guzan kept running backwards when the ball was passed to him! :o
He should have run towards it and do what we do best HOOF it!
Because on 2 or 3 occasions the pass back was too hard, others it's to give himself time.
Interesting that you say "Hoof it" though
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It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.
Very good point. I'd imagine yesterday's performance was the accumulation of almost five years progressive football coaching at Swansea, from the young Martinez to Paulo Sousa and now to the experienced, Mourinho trained, Brendan Rodgers.
That's a vision the Swansea board should be congratulated for and ours should take note.
I said the same thing yesterday. It's depressing that a team like Swansea could turn up in their first season in the PL and completely outplay us. We've got a team of expensively assembled individuals, but still with no settled team or style of play. The continuity point is a good one, and it highlights just how clueless Lerner is. To go from O'Neill to Houllier, then to consider Martinez before appointing McLeish shows that there's no long term vision at all.
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The next step is to be consistently on the positive side of that spectrum.
I don't think McLeish is capable of that.
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It's been argued above that you never change a winning team AND that we should have rotated as Swansea did to keep the players fresh.
It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.
We gifted them two unbelievably soft goals which then allowed them to sit and play the ball around in their own half for what seemed like hours on end.
I thought we did OK in the first half without getting the slice of luck they were given. Second half we seemed to run out of ideas but I suspect they'd have felt far less secure defending the leas had we kept it to 1.
After Some decent performances this was a reality check, we've still got a lot of work to do. We're capable of playing good football but also prone to the odd horror show. The next step is to be consistently on the positive side of that spectrum.
I like a lot of what you've said here, Chris.
My point on an earlier post on this thread was that consistency of play is a basic minimum of what you'd expect from McMinge. And for the team to have the right attitude going into games.
We knew he's not a world-beating manager and that we were not going to start playing like Barcelona under his stewardship. But we did expect - from the evidence of his management of other teams - for his Villa team to play with some defensive surety and some self-belief. And we did expect that he would be able to bring together the old lags and the young guns into a useful and effective team.
I think there is a growing belief that even the basic minimum is not going to be achieved: a hard-working and consistent team that does not easily lose.
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While I'm no fan of McLeish whatsoever, I do wish people wouldn't call him "McMinge". It's all a little bit childish in my view, and just reinforces the mistaken belief that we as fans are dead set against him because of his past association with Blues.
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They all looked suspiciously like they'd been on the piss the night before.
Indeed. I asked on the Match thread if Warnock was pissed. It was a serious question.
a pipe would have been a lot better
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Im still trying to figure out why Guzan kept running backwards when the ball was passed to him! :o
He should have run towards it and do what we do best HOOF it!
Because on 2 or 3 occasions the pass back was too hard, others it's to give himself time.
Interesting that you say "Hoof it" though
I say hoof it as thats what I have witnessed for large parts of the season. When put under pressure, the goalie should be hoofing it to clear his lines. no point in trying to control it and then fannying about with it especially when a striker is charging at you.
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It's been argued above that you never change a winning team AND that we should have rotated as Swansea did to keep the players fresh.
It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.
We gifted them two unbelievably soft goals which then allowed them to sit and play the ball around in their own half for what seemed like hours on end.
I thought we did OK in the first half without getting the slice of luck they were given. Second half we seemed to run out of ideas but I suspect they'd have felt far less secure defending the leas had we kept it to 1.
After Some decent performances this was a reality check, we've still got a lot of work to do. We're capable of playing good football but also prone to the odd horror show. The next step is to be consistently on the positive side of that spectrum.
This is pretty much how I saw it. I genuinely thought that even a goal down we'd go on to win the game and the pressure that we exerted for the rest of the first half suggested to me that goals would come but the game plan disappeared when the second went in and Swansea passed around at their leisure for pretty much the rest of the game while we resorted to aimless punts forward.
One thing I will criticise that was brought up earlier in the thread by Brian Green is how bad we are at set pieces at both ends of the pitch. I got to thinking during the game that on the average corner you will get probably 10 or 11 defending against 7 or 8. I only dabble in mathematics but I would say the defending side could reasonably expect to be first to the ball two thirds of the time with the attacking side the remaining third though I'm sure some well paid dullard at Opta could provide accurate stats on this. This doesn't seem to be the case with us however as the number we've conceded and scored from corners would appear bear out and it does beg the question what are we doing in training all week.
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It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.
Very good point. I'd imagine yesterday's performance was the accumulation of almost five years progressive football coaching at Swansea, from the young Martinez to Paulo Sousa and now to the experienced, Mourinho trained, Brendan Rodgers.
That's a vision the Swansea board should be congratulated for and ours should take note.
I said the same thing yesterday. It's depressing that a team like Swansea could turn up in their first season in the PL and completely outplay us. We've got a team of expensively assembled individuals, but still with no settled team or style of play. The continuity point is a good one, and it highlights just how clueless Lerner is. To go from O'Neill to Houllier, then to consider Martinez before appointing McLeish shows that there's no long term vision at all.
I have to say that I agree with you Mart. I would say that in fairness, I think that Lerner tried (rightly or wrongly) with Houllier to move on from the MON era, with a new approach. But after his health problems and subsequent departure, he's all over the place with what to do next.
Until the Board employ someone to work alongside them that can create a football "philosophy" within the club, performances like yesterdays will become more frequent, as we are far too predictable. A charge that was levied at MON over 2 years ago.
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Good post CS, and as i saw it.
Where the players tired, or just lazy? No closing down, no energy, no bite, no fight.
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It's been argued above that you never change a winning team AND that we should have rotated as Swansea did to keep the players fresh.
It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.
We gifted them two unbelievably soft goals which then allowed them to sit and play the ball around in their own half for what seemed like hours on end.
I thought we did OK in the first half without getting the slice of luck they were given. Second half we seemed to run out of ideas but I suspect they'd have felt far less secure defending the leas had we kept it to 1.
After Some decent performances this was a reality check, we've still got a lot of work to do. We're capable of playing good football but also prone to the odd horror show. The next step is to be consistently on the positive side of that spectrum.
This is pretty much how I saw it. I genuinely thought that even a goal down we'd go on to win the game and the pressure that we exerted for the rest of the first half suggested to me that goals would come but the game plan disappeared when the second went in and Swansea passed around at their leisure for pretty much the rest of the game while we resorted to aimless punts forward.
One thing I will criticise that was brought up earlier in the thread by Brian Green is how bad we are at set pieces at both ends of the pitch. I got to thinking during the game that on the average corner you will get probably 10 or 11 defending against 7 or 8. I only dabble in mathematics but I would say the defending side could reasonably expect to be first to the ball two thirds of the time with the attacking side the remaining third though I'm sure some well paid dullard at Opta could provide accurate stats on this. This doesn't seem to be the case with us however as the number we've conceded and scored from corners would appear bear out and it does beg the question what are we doing in training all week.
The bloke sat next to me opined that the Swansea players were kicking it out for a corner rather than let it go for a goal kick, as it was ending up further away from the Swansea goal that way!
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Was Mr Lerner at the game? I lay most of the blame with him for selling our best players and the squad having no quality in depth. Having said that, AM hasn't got much idea either and when you combine him, Lerner and Faulkner together they make the Marx Brothers look intelligent!
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Can you name me another team that when they are 2-0 down allows the opposition goalkeeper to roll the ball to the RB who in turn passes it to the centre half who in turn passes it to the LB. Whilst our lone striker meanders after the ball like a headless chicken whilst every single other player is in our own half.
One of my mates made this point yesterday. When we played United last season and were 2 up with 10 minutes to go, they really showed urgency determination, belief and a will to salvage something from the game. Our players look like they gave up yesterday.
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Agree with Risso his name is McLeish.. Not a massive fan but he is owed respect. Also its Clark not Clarke!!!
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2 - "Why can't we pass it around instead of hoofing it?" said the bloke next to me (and countless others), "Because they're patient and you're not" was my response.
Heh. Any time the defense looked like they wanted to do something that WASN'T a hoof the people behind me were going mad. "Hit it!" "Get rid of it!"
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Our problem is trying to break teams when they set up to put 10 men behind the ball.
I thought we were definitely worth a goal in the first half, that second goal knocked all the energy out of us, and gave them enough belief that they could actually win an away game. Watching them play keep ball was extremely frustrating, and the belief from the players and fans just dissolved as the minutes ticked by.
Fair play to Brendan Rogers, the better team won.
We need to cut out the mistakes first, and take our chances when we can.
Not a good day, but not the end of the world either.
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I haven't read the thread, I went into footy hibernation after yesterday. I was so angry on the way home I thought I'd better just watch telly and say nothing to anyone at home.
My thoughts on the game now are that we let so much bloody good will and momentum go. I don't know how low the expected gate was before the Chelsea win but there were queues at the ticket booths right up to kick off and there was a genuine atmosphere of expectation around. Even after kick off we had all the play and were almost laying seige to the Swansea goal, Ireland was getting the ball and was being applauded, Gabby looked sharp as did Bent. Then Warnock happened.
Even for the rest of the half we controlled the game I thought, Ok Swansea knocked the ball around their defenders differently to most sides but I thought we were harrying them into mistakes at times. After half time the next goal was always going to be important but I genuinely thought it would be a goal for us. The second goal killed the game from one of the worst players ever to play for us ,typically, and one who wouldn't get close to our current side.
The player who frustrated me the most, not including Warnock, was N'zogbia. He has no positional discipline. He actually played ok in patches, but he doesn't hold the wing like he should. We are set up when Bent plays for wingers to cross the ball to give him the chances his movement creates. Sadly any combination of Gabby, Albrighton and N'zogbia doesn't come upto the standards of Downing and Young.
We would have won the game if Warnock hadn't have messed up, which is why it is so annoying.
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We would have won the game if Warnock hadn't have messed up, which is why it is so annoying.
I dont agree, I think we would have lost anyway. Swansea played us off the park for large parts of the game, and no matter what Warnock did we didnt look like scoring a goal had the game continued until now!
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We would have won the game if Warnock hadn't have messed up, which is why it is so annoying.
I dont agree, I think we would have lost anyway. Swansea played us off the park for large parts of the game, and no matter what Warnock did we didnt look like scoring a goal had the game continued until now!
For sure after the second goal went in we were absolutely 100% dead, and they did keep the ball well after that.
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It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.
Very good point. I'd imagine yesterday's performance was the accumulation of almost five years progressive football coaching at Swansea, from the young Martinez to Paulo Sousa and now to the experienced, Mourinho trained, Brendan Rodgers.
That's a vision the Swansea board should be congratulated for and ours should take note.
It looked like Randy had opted to go down that route by appointing Houllier, and then targeting Martinez last summer. So that being the case, what on earth led him to do a U-turn and plump for McLeish? I never could fathom the logic of that...
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Agree with Risso his name is McLeish.. Not a massive fan but he is owed respect. Also its Clark not Clarke!!!
You're both right - it is childish and I think I'm the main protaganist. So, I apologise and will try to desist in future.
Now, about Pubehead, Fat Arse and others - perhaps we should clean up the whole site while we're at it. ;D
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We would have won the game if Warnock hadn't have messed up, which is why it is so annoying.
I dont agree, I think we would have lost anyway. Swansea played us off the park for large parts of the game, and no matter what Warnock did we didnt look like scoring a goal had the game continued until now!
I agree with Mark. The game against the swans was always going to be difficult IMO so to say we would have won had warnock not messed up is showing a lack of respect to the opponents who have been playing generally well recently.(put it this way, they play more attractive football than villa). about 3/4 years ago, I had a believe that if we went 0-1 down, we would still crawl back and get a draw or even go on to win the game. now i have no real hope if we conceed first. Ok, chelsea scored against us first and we went on to win but I straight away thought we would lose.
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We would have won the game if Warnock hadn't have messed up, which is why it is so annoying.
I dont agree, I think we would have lost anyway. Swansea played us off the park for large parts of the game, and no matter what Warnock did we didnt look like scoring a goal had the game continued until now!
Cliche time - goals don't just win games, they also change them!
It's pretty accademic anyway, as Warnock did fuck up and we did also give away a silly 2nd.
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Agree with Risso his name is McLeish.. Not a massive fan but he is owed respect. Also its Clark not Clarke!!!
You're both right - it is childish and I think I'm the main protaganist. So, I apologise and will try to desist in future.
Now, about Pubehead, Fat Arse and others - perhaps we should clean up the whole site while we're at it. ;D
On a similar theme, I've been working on a way to merge the words 'Mcleish' and 'malaise'. They have a similar sound and both mean the same thing.
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I haven't read the thread, I went into footy hibernation after yesterday. I was so angry on the way home I thought I'd better just watch telly and say nothing to anyone at home.
My thoughts on the game now are that we let so much bloody good will and momentum go. I don't know how low the expected gate was before the Chelsea win but there were queues at the ticket booths right up to kick off and there was a genuine atmosphere of expectation around. Even after kick off we had all the play and were almost laying seige to the Swansea goal, Ireland was getting the ball and was being applauded, Gabby looked sharp as did Bent. Then Warnock happened.
Even for the rest of the half we controlled the game I thought, Ok Swansea knocked the ball around their defenders differently to most sides but I thought we were harrying them into mistakes at times. After half time the next goal was always going to be important but I genuinely thought it would be a goal for us. The second goal killed the game from one of the worst players ever to play for us ,typically, and one who wouldn't get close to our current side.
The player who frustrated me the most, not including Warnock, was N'zogbia. He has no positional discipline. He actually played ok in patches, but he doesn't hold the wing like he should. We are set up when Bent plays for wingers to cross the ball to give him the chances his movement creates. Sadly any combination of Gabby, Albrighton and N'zogbia doesn't come upto the standards of Downing and Young.
We would have won the game if Warnock hadn't have messed up, which is why it is so annoying.
I aint so sure about a lot of this mate.
'Warnock' happened after 4 minutes, so our dictating of the play was not for that long.
Between their first goal and half time, they could have had 4 more, easily.
In that time, we managed 1 feeble header from Collins which constituted an effort on goal.
We then conceded within seconds of the second half starting, so any half time team talk was out of the window.
So, where was plan B ?
We still had virtually all of the second half to get something out of the game, but, there were no changes
made to try an get back into the game until it was too late.
Yes, there were individual mistakes, but to me, there was poor management from start to finish.
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I'm only going on how the atmosphere 'felt' at the ground before the first goal. Undoubtedly there was no plan B and Swansea fully deserved the win I agree. But my opinion is if Warnock hadn't had gifted the first goal we would have won the game. I have no idea how Swansea had been playing prior to yesterday only that they hadn't won away and we'd just come off the back of a good performance.
The fact remains, of course, that we lost and I'm sure there are a whole host of Chelsea fans bemoaning the fact that if Lampard hadn't had passed to Ireland on Saturday they would probably have gone on and drawn !
I understand the issues about the managers tactics and again he didn't react promptly enough to being two down, but what can he do when a member of England's last World Cup Final squad makes that kind of mistake.
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The first goal decided the game, they were able to just sit back and pass the ball around, they did not have to do anything just keep passing the ball.
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The first goal decided the game, they were able to just sit back and pass the ball around, they did not have to do anything just keep passing the ball.
That's what I meant to say !
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I'm only going on how the atmosphere 'felt' at the ground before the first goal. Undoubtedly there was no plan B and Swansea fully deserved the win I agree. But my opinion is if Warnock hadn't had gifted the first goal we would have won the game. I have no idea how Swansea had been playing prior to yesterday only that they hadn't won away and we'd just come off the back of a good performance.
The fact remains, of course, that we lost and I'm sure there are a whole host of Chelsea fans bemoaning the fact that if Lampard hadn't had passed to Ireland on Saturday they would probably have gone on and drawn !
I understand the issues about the managers tactics and again he didn't react promptly enough to being two down, but what can he do when a member of England's last World Cup Final squad makes that kind of mistake.
How do you think we would win the game? It would have been a draw at best. We were awful. Again. Think we had one shot on target?
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Yes of course it would have been 0-0 if they didn't score at all and the game had carried on exactly the same. But I'm trying to say is that if we hadn't had duffed em the first goal we would have won. Comfortably as well.
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CNZ 3/10 - rubbish! The Real Passenger
MAybe I was watching a different game to you. I thought he & Dunne were the two players to emerge with credit.
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Yes of course it would have been 0-0 if they didn't score at all and the game had carried on exactly the same. But I'm trying to say is that if we hadn't had duffed em the first goal we would have won. Comfortably as well.
I am not sure we would have one, but we would not have been so easy to beat, Warnock game them the game.
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CNZ 3/10 - rubbish! The Real Passenger
MAybe I was watching a different game to you. I thought he & Dunne were the two players to emerge with credit.
You're not alone, I thought Charlie finally started to show signs of why we bought him. I love the way he can receive and pass a ball when closely surrounded by opposition players. He's not an out and out winger, what he does is receive it out wide and bring it in, linking up superbly with Ireland.
A month ago I'd have sold them both; now I don't know what we'd do without them. A goal would probably help N'Zogbia no end but credit to the lad he's kept at it and we are starting to see the rewards.
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CNZ 3/10 - rubbish! The Real Passenger
MAybe I was watching a different game to you. I thought he & Dunne were the two players to emerge with credit.
I have to agree. Certainly in the first half as far as N'Zog is concerned. He also had our two best chances in the 2nd. One a weak header when he might have done better with and the other that hit the bar at the end.
He also got in a great cross first half which Gabby should have at least hit the target with.
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He's not an out and out winger, what he does is receive it out wide and bring it in, linking up superbly with Ireland.
This is true.
Maybe the way forward for us is to give him a free role behind Bent and use Gabby and Marc wide?
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I like the shape we had v Arsenal and Chelsea - Albrighton and N'Zog wide, both looking comfortable in that role. Then I think it's a straight choice between two central midfield players (Petrov and Clark currently) and Gabby and Bent up front, or three midfield players (P, C and Ireland currently) with one centre-forward, Gabby or Bent. Depending on availability, fitness and opposition.
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Im still trying to figure out why Guzan kept running backwards when the ball was passed to him! :o
He should have run towards it and do what we do best HOOF it!
Because on 2 or 3 occasions the pass back was too hard, others it's to give himself
time.
Interesting that you say "Hoof it" though
I say hoof it as thats what I have witnessed for large parts of the season. When put under pressure, the goalie should be hoofing it to clear his lines. no point in trying to control it and then fannying about with it especially when a striker is charging at you.
Have you noticed how goalkeepers in general are dodgy with kicking away a back pass?
This has been particularly noticeable since they were penalised for picking the ball up. If the keeper doesn't control it then he could slice it anywhere, to more derision from the crowd.
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CNZ 3/10 - rubbish! The Real Passenger
I completely disagree 1/10 for me. No idea where to stand with or without the ball, got swapped with Gabby at half time because he was no support to Warnock, then we concede down that side. Could not take a free kick or corner and should have gone off instead of Ireland. Other than that he had a great game.
MAybe I was watching a different game to you. I thought he & Dunne were the two players to emerge with credit.
I have to agree. Certainly in the first half as far as N'Zog is concerned. He also had our two best chances in the 2nd. One a weak header when he might have done better with and the other that hit the bar at the end.
He also got in a great cross first half which Gabby should have at least hit the target with.
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Let's be honest, Jon, their goalie was a considerably better footballer than our defenders.
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ABSOLUTE FUCKIN RUBBISH