Aston Villa v Swansea City Post-Match Thread

[nigel]

Im still trying to figure out why Guzan kept running backwards when the ball was passed to him! 
He should have run towards it and do what we do best HOOF it!

Because on 2 or 3 occasions the pass back was too hard, others it's to give himself time.
Interesting that you say "Hoof it" though

[Risso]

It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.

Very good point. I'd imagine yesterday's performance was the accumulation of almost five years progressive football coaching at Swansea, from the young Martinez to Paulo Sousa and now to the experienced, Mourinho trained, Brendan Rodgers.

That's a vision the Swansea board should be congratulated for and ours should take note.

I said the same thing yesterday.  It's depressing that a team like Swansea could turn up in their first season in the PL and completely outplay us.  We've got a team of expensively assembled individuals, but still with no settled team or style of play.  The continuity point is a good one, and it highlights just how clueless Lerner is.  To go from O'Neill to Houllier, then to consider Martinez before appointing McLeish shows that there's no long term vision at all.

[Risso]

The next step is to be consistently on the positive side of that spectrum.

I don't think McLeish is capable of that.

[Mister E]

It's been argued above that you never change a winning team AND that we should have rotated as Swansea did to keep the players fresh.

It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.

We gifted them two unbelievably soft goals which then allowed them to sit and play the ball around in their own half for what seemed like hours on end.

I thought we did OK in the first half without getting the slice of luck they were given. Second half we seemed to run out of ideas but I suspect they'd have felt far less secure defending the leas had we kept it to 1.

After Some decent performances this was a reality check, we've still got a lot of work to do. We're capable of playing  good football but also prone to the odd horror show. The next step is to be consistently on the positive side of that spectrum.

I like a lot of what you've said here, Chris.
My point on an earlier post on this thread was that consistency of play is a basic minimum of what you'd expect from McMinge. And for the team to have the right attitude going into games.

We knew he's not a world-beating manager and that we were not going to start playing like Barcelona under his stewardship. But we did expect - from the evidence of his management of other teams - for his Villa team to play with some defensive surety and some self-belief. And we did expect that he would be able to bring together the old lags and the young guns into a useful and effective team.

I think there is a growing belief that even the basic minimum is not going to be achieved: a hard-working and consistent team that does not easily lose.

[Risso]

While I'm no fan of McLeish whatsoever, I do wish people wouldn't call him "McMinge".  It's all a little bit childish in my view, and just reinforces the mistaken belief that we as fans are dead set against him because of his past association with Blues.

[JUAN PABLO]

They all looked suspiciously like they'd been on the piss the night before.

Indeed. I asked on the Match thread if Warnock was pissed. It was a serious question.

a pipe would have been a lot better

[Rick_avfc]

Im still trying to figure out why Guzan kept running backwards when the ball was passed to him! 
He should have run towards it and do what we do best HOOF it!

Because on 2 or 3 occasions the pass back was too hard, others it's to give himself time.
Interesting that you say "Hoof it" though

I say hoof it as thats what I have witnessed for large parts of the season.  When put under pressure, the goalie should be hoofing it to clear his lines.  no point in trying to control it and then fannying about with it especially when a striker is charging at you.

[joe_c]

It's been argued above that you never change a winning team AND that we should have rotated as Swansea did to keep the players fresh.

It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.

We gifted them two unbelievably soft goals which then allowed them to sit and play the ball around in their own half for what seemed like hours on end.

I thought we did OK in the first half without getting the slice of luck they were given. Second half we seemed to run out of ideas but I suspect they'd have felt far less secure defending the leas had we kept it to 1.

After Some decent performances this was a reality check, we've still got a lot of work to do. We're capable of playing  good football but also prone to the odd horror show. The next step is to be consistently on the positive side of that spectrum.

This is pretty much how I saw it. I genuinely thought that even a goal down we'd go on to win the game and the pressure that we exerted for the rest of the first half suggested to me that goals would come but the game plan disappeared when the second went in and Swansea passed around at their leisure for pretty much the rest of the game while we resorted to aimless punts forward.

One thing I will criticise that was brought up earlier in the thread by Brian Green is how bad we are at set pieces at both ends of the pitch. I got to thinking during the game that on the average corner you will get probably 10 or 11 defending against 7 or 8. I only dabble in mathematics but I would say the defending side could reasonably expect to be first to the ball two thirds of the time with the attacking side the remaining third though I'm sure some well paid dullard at Opta could provide accurate stats on this. This doesn't seem to be the case with us however as the number we've conceded and scored from corners would appear bear out and it does beg the question what are we doing in training all week.

[Lee]

It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.

Very good point. I'd imagine yesterday's performance was the accumulation of almost five years progressive football coaching at Swansea, from the young Martinez to Paulo Sousa and now to the experienced, Mourinho trained, Brendan Rodgers.

That's a vision the Swansea board should be congratulated for and ours should take note.

I said the same thing yesterday.  It's depressing that a team like Swansea could turn up in their first season in the PL and completely outplay us.  We've got a team of expensively assembled individuals, but still with no settled team or style of play.  The continuity point is a good one, and it highlights just how clueless Lerner is.  To go from O'Neill to Houllier, then to consider Martinez before appointing McLeish shows that there's no long term vision at all.

I have to say that I agree with you Mart. I would say that in fairness, I think that Lerner tried (rightly or wrongly) with Houllier to move on from the MON era, with a new approach. But after his health problems and subsequent departure, he's all over the place with what to do next.

Until the Board employ someone to work alongside them that can create a football "philosophy" within the club, performances like yesterdays will become more frequent, as we are far too predictable. A charge that was levied at MON over 2 years ago.

[barrysleftfoot]

   Good post CS, and as i saw it.

  Where the players tired, or just lazy?  No closing down, no energy, no bite, no fight.

[Risso]

It's been argued above that you never change a winning team AND that we should have rotated as Swansea did to keep the players fresh.

It's also been pointed out that they pmayets a very fluid passing style as though that s what we should be doing. The point is though they didn't just turn up fully formed playing that way it's a result of continuity of approach from successive managers and them acquiring the players to do it.

We gifted them two unbelievably soft goals which then allowed them to sit and play the ball around in their own half for what seemed like hours on end.

I thought we did OK in the first half without getting the slice of luck they were given. Second half we seemed to run out of ideas but I suspect they'd have felt far less secure defending the leas had we kept it to 1.

After Some decent performances this was a reality check, we've still got a lot of work to do. We're capable of playing  good football but also prone to the odd horror show. The next step is to be consistently on the positive side of that spectrum.

This is pretty much how I saw it. I genuinely thought that even a goal down we'd go on to win the game and the pressure that we exerted for the rest of the first half suggested to me that goals would come but the game plan disappeared when the second went in and Swansea passed around at their leisure for pretty much the rest of the game while we resorted to aimless punts forward.

One thing I will criticise that was brought up earlier in the thread by Brian Green is how bad we are at set pieces at both ends of the pitch. I got to thinking during the game that on the average corner you will get probably 10 or 11 defending against 7 or 8. I only dabble in mathematics but I would say the defending side could reasonably expect to be first to the ball two thirds of the time with the attacking side the remaining third though I'm sure some well paid dullard at Opta could provide accurate stats on this. This doesn't seem to be the case with us however as the number we've conceded and scored from corners would appear bear out and it does beg the question what are we doing in training all week.

The bloke sat next to me opined that the Swansea players were kicking it out for a corner rather than let it go for a goal kick, as it was ending up further away from the Swansea goal that way!

[Villafirst]

Was Mr Lerner at the game? I lay most of the blame with him for selling our best players and the squad having no quality in depth. Having said that, AM hasn't got much idea either and when you combine him, Lerner and Faulkner together they make the Marx Brothers look intelligent!

[jembob]

Can you name me another team that when they are 2-0 down allows the opposition goalkeeper to roll the ball to the RB who in turn passes it to the centre half who in turn passes it to the LB. Whilst our lone striker meanders after the ball like a headless chicken whilst every single other player is in our own half.

One of my mates made this point yesterday. When we played United last season and were 2 up with 10 minutes to go, they really showed urgency determination, belief and a will to salvage something from the game. Our players look like they gave up yesterday.

[Hoppo]

Agree with Risso his name is McLeish.. Not a massive fan but he is owed respect. Also its Clark not Clarke!!!

[not3bad]

2 - "Why can't we pass it around instead of hoofing it?" said the bloke next to me (and countless others), "Because they're patient and you're not" was my response.

Heh.  Any time the defense looked like they wanted to do something that WASN'T a hoof the people behind me were going mad.  "Hit it!"  "Get rid of it!"