Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Gaztonniller on June 10, 2011, 11:58:57 PM
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Looking at possible vacancies, im struggling to see which club he would take over.
Im sure that he'd prefer a good size club, decent chairman/owner with some guarrantees of having at least a few bob to spend, and TBH cant see many of those opportunities coming up at the moment. Maybe Sunderland at a push if things dont go as planned next season but other than them; MON could be a long time on the side lines.
The only other Scenario i can see fitting the criteria is to return back to VP.
The pros of such a reunion? Well,... Just look at the signings he made which have now either being called up to the full national team; OR have increased in their value since arriving. On the whole it quite a good record. Add to that, the fact that he & RL may look back with a tinge of regret but both be wiser and stronger after the event.
The cons of such a reunion; the reaction from the fans after the perception of being left in the lurch, and maybe having to reshape the team again for the season ahead.
What do you think. Would such a reunion be totally off the cards?
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No. I'd rather have genital warts.
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No.
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No. I'd be amazed if anyone would. If he couldn't do it with the money he had how would he manage it on a tighter budget?
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No.
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Never.
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Not a chance. He's a major reason we are in the position we are in today. For a large part of his time with us he was good for the club but the ending was very sour indeed. No one person is bigger than the club and tried to be.
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Never in a rain of pig's pudding.
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No. I'd rather have genital warts.
I confess to having to to weigh this one up, but eventually came to a decision - I agree 100%.
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Not a chance.
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No fcuking way.
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Start a poll please. Then ask Oliver "I bet Villa fans would love O'Neill back" Holt to read out the results on Election Special. Then have him killed.
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Not a chance. He's a major reason we are in the position we are in today. For a large part of his time with us he was good for the club but the ending was very sour indeed. No one person is bigger than the club and tried to be.
Aint that another good reason to have him back and for him to return and restore the club back to its not too long ago healthy position? Such an emphatic NO almost places in him in the same category as the reaction against Mclaren!!
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I would rather have McLaren.
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Never.
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I would rather have McLaren.
So would I. And Martinez. Probably Francis as well.
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Start a poll please. Then ask Oliver "I bet Villa fans would love O'Neill back" Holt to read out the results on Election Special. Then have him killed.
I also bet fans would love to have such similar and promising signings now ready to exit again coming back through the door. Who can argue against his record of spotting talent and them developing into INTERNATIONAL players.
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oh dear
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Shall I use my 10,000th post in the spirit of reconciliation or in an act of petty vindictiveness? Hmmm...
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FUCK OFF O'NEILL!
(I decided on the latter).
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I would rather have McLaren.
You would!!!? On what basis?
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I would rather have McLaren.
You would!!!?
Yes!!! I would!!!!!!!!
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Not a chance. He's a major reason we are in the position we are in today. For a large part of his time with us he was good for the club but the ending was very sour indeed. No one person is bigger than the club and tried to be.
Aint that another good reason to have him back and for him to return and restore the club back to its not too long ago healthy position? Such an emphatic NO almost places in him in the same category as the reaction against Mclaren!!
sorry but walking out like he did and when he did is unforgiveable.
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I would rather eat my own ear wax!
And we all know how howwible that tastes, right kids?!
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Been there, tried him, didn't work. Let's try someone new.
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Start a poll please. Then ask Oliver "I bet Villa fans would love O'Neill back" Holt to read out the results on Election Special. Then have him killed.
I also bet fans would love to have such similar and promising signings now ready to exit again coming back through the door. Who can argue against his record of spotting talent and them developing into INTERNATIONAL players.
Doesn't a previous manager who first brought Milner to the club get the credit for spotting talent? We'd all have signed him anyway after that on loan season so MoN wasn't exactly unique in wanting him in B6. So really, that leaves Young.
Against that we have the list of wasted money, which we all know.
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I would rather have McLaren.
You would!!!?
Yes!!! I would!!!!!!!!
Based on what exactly? What are the merits of Mac over Oneil?
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He's not a complete ******.
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Ok...Yes, I would.
But then I don't go to VP on a regular basis and, despite the prevailing mood here, I DO believe that I'm less of a fan as a result of that. Genuinely.
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Start a poll please. Then ask Oliver "I bet Villa fans would love O'Neill back" Holt to read out the results on Election Special. Then have him killed.
And JUST those two resulted in nr 50 million!! coming back into the club (minus expenditure of course). What a poor manager to consider returning.
I also bet fans would love to have such similar and promising signings now ready to exit again coming back through the door. Who can argue against his record of spotting talent and them developing into INTERNATIONAL players.
Doesn't a previous manager who first brought Milner to the club get the credit for spotting talent? We'd all have signed him anyway after that on loan season so MoN wasn't exactly unique in wanting him in B6. So really, that leaves Young.
Against that we have the list of wasted money, which we all know.
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NO. Frankly if his idea of professionalism is walking out at a moment which allows his employers no opportunity to replace him...sulky teenager...twat...sorry just got back from the pub sentences not forming proper...
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Ok...Yes, I would.
But then I don't go to VP on a regular basis and, despite the prevailing mood here, I DO believe that I'm less of a fan as a result of that. Genuinely.
A fine example of a brave lion willing to forgive and forget when the obvious solution to the current woes are staring him in the face and showing he aint just getting swept away along with the tide of popular opinon.
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Ok...Yes, I would.
But then I don't go to VP on a regular basis and, despite the prevailing mood here, I DO believe that I'm less of a fan as a result of that. Genuinely.
A fine example of a brave lion willing to forgive and forget when the obvious solution to the current woes are staring him in the face and showing he aint just getting swept away along with the tide of popular opinon.
Coming in here with his bloody rational thinking!! It'll never catch on.
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Been there, tried him, didn't work. Let's try someone new.
Now come on seriously; I know this is just a bit of What if chatter. But being serious, in what way didnt he exactly work in the overall scheme of things?
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Been there, tried him, didn't work. Let's try someone new.
Now come on seriously; I know this is just a bit of What if chatter. But being serious, in what way didnt he exactly work in the overall scheme of things?
Signed loads of overpaid, under-performing players. Refused to take resposibility for his actions, left in a huff.
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Been there, tried him, didn't work. Let's try someone new.
Now come on seriously; I know this is just a bit of What if chatter. But being serious, in what way didnt he exactly work in the overall scheme of things?
We could argue about his record. His penchant for buying over-priced British-based talent on exhorbitant wages, his non-existant scouting network, his love of playing players out of position and the lack of rotation that meant we were always burned out by the start of March. However, it would be reasonable to contrast this with some achievements. Getting us into the top six three times, our first major final in a decade and some memorable victories... especially the long-awaited win at the Theatre of Hype.
His success or failure as a manager is immaterial though. Judas Iscariot may well have been an excellent disciple right up until the point where he decided to fuck Jesus over.
O'Neill fucked us over. Let him rot.
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Been there, tried him, didn't work. Let's try someone new.
Now come on seriously; I know this is just a bit of What if chatter. But being serious, in what way didnt he exactly work in the overall scheme of things?
Taking the blinkers OFF for a minute. IF a potential manager (other than MON) was linked with the current vacancy came with this record http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_O'Neill (and replace the Villa section/part in WIKI with another club, say Everton) would there be any objection?
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Start a poll please. Then ask Oliver "I bet Villa fans would love O'Neill back" Holt to read out the results on Election Special. Then have him killed.
I also bet fans would love to have such similar and promising signings now ready to exit again coming back through the door. Who can argue against his record of spotting talent and them developing into INTERNATIONAL players.
Doesn't a previous manager who first brought Milner to the club get the credit for spotting talent? We'd all have signed him anyway after that on loan season so MoN wasn't exactly unique in wanting him in B6. So really, that leaves Young.
Against that we have the list of wasted money, which we all know.
And JUST those two resulted in nr 50 million!! coming back into the club (minus expenditure of course). What a poor manager to consider returning.
So we're agreed then, it's just Ashley Young he spotted.
And the profit we'll make on him will just about cancel out the loss we took on Curtis. So yes, he's a poor manager to consider returning.
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i'd rather cheesegrate my foreskin than let him come back
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No thank you.
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Start a poll please. Then ask Oliver "I bet Villa fans would love O'Neill back" Holt to read out the results on Election Special. Then have him killed.
I also bet fans would love to have such similar and promising signings now ready to exit again coming back through the door. Who can argue against his record of spotting talent and them developing into INTERNATIONAL players.
Doesn't a previous manager who first brought Milner to the club get the credit for spotting talent? We'd all have signed him anyway after that on loan season so MoN wasn't exactly unique in wanting him in B6. So really, that leaves Young.
Against that we have the list of wasted money, which we all know.
And JUST those two resulted in nr 50 million!! coming back into the club (minus expenditure of course). What a poor manager to consider returning.
So we're agreed then, it's just Ashley Young he spotted.
And the profit we'll make on him will just about cancel out the loss we took on Curtis. So yes, he's a poor manager to consider returning.
Is that the Curtis as in England international call-up when at the club who then got injured?
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He hardly had his leg cut off.
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i would say yes, without a shadow of a doubt
look at our shortlist now
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Been there, tried him, didn't work. Let's try someone new.
Now come on seriously; I know this is just a bit of What if chatter. But being serious, in what way didnt he exactly work in the overall scheme of things?
In the first 2 of the 3 seasons that we finished 6th, Arsenal were poor and there was no Man City or Spurs (as they are in their current climate). 3rd to 6th was between ourselves, Everton, Arsenal and Liverpool. We finished bottom of that mini league everytime and for the money spent, we should (and could) have done better.
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Ok...Yes, I would.
But then I don't go to VP on a regular basis and, despite the prevailing mood here, I DO believe that I'm less of a fan as a result of that. Genuinely.
A fine example of a brave lion willing to forgive and forget when the obvious solution to the current woes are staring him in the face and showing he aint just getting swept away along with the tide of popular opinon.
Coming in here with his bloody rational thinking!! It'll never catch on.
No room for rational thinking in the at times irrational world of footy.
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I love this line Gazton... "And JUST those two resulted in nr 50 million!! coming back into the club (minus expenditure of course)."
Do you know that Britain has full employment if you don't count the unemployed?
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Not a f'king chance.
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His Signings were sh!te..
Good:
Carew
Friedel
Downing
Delph
Indifferent:
Petrov
Cueller
Davies
Collins
Dunne
Bad:
Zat
Maloney
Agathe
Sutton
Heskey
Bardsley
Kiraly
Routledge
Salifou
Harewood
Reo-Coker
Sidwell
Brad Guzan
Shorey
L Young
Beye
Warnock
I havent included Milner & young because even my gran could have spotted their talent. And it was Randy who paid over the odds to get them in anyway.
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I would rather have McLaren.
You would!!!?
Yes!!! I would!!!!!!!!
This, I believe, was your 10,000th post. Kind of the equivalent of an outside edge that eludes the slips and trundles away for a barely deserved four to bring up a century. You raise your bat sheepishly as a handful of posters in the Tickets and Travel section applaud half heartedly.
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His Signings were sh!te..
Good:
Carew
Friedel
Downing
Delph
Indifferent:
Petrov
Cueller
Davies
Collins
Dunne
Bad:
Zat
Maloney
Agathe
Sutton
Heskey
Bardsley
Kiraly
Routledge
Salifou
Harewood
Reo-Coker
Sidwell
Brad Guzan
Shorey
L Young
Beye
Warnock
I havent included Milner & young because even my gran could have spotted their talent. And it was Randy who paid over the odds to get them in anyway.
O'Neill in my eyes is a massive knobber nowadays but this is laughable revisionism.
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I would rather have McLaren.
You would!!!?
Yes!!! I would!!!!!!!!
This, I believe, was your 10,000th post. Kind of the equivalent of an outside edge that eludes the slips and trundles away for a barely deserved four to bring up a century. You raise your bat sheepishly as a handful of posters in the Tickets and Travel section applaud half heartedly.
I thought, why not reach a landmark showing my usual level of wit and intellect?
This was my actual 10,000th post...
FUCK OFF O'NEILL!
Anyway, can I have "10,000+ sad bastard" written above my name please Mr Mod?
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Been there, tried him, didn't work. Let's try someone new.
Now come on seriously; I know this is just a bit of What if chatter. But being serious, in what way didnt he exactly work in the overall scheme of things?
In the first 2 of the 3 seasons that we finished 6th, Arsenal were poor and there was no Man City or Spurs (as they are in their current climate). 3rd to 6th was between ourselves, Everton, Arsenal and Liverpool. We finished bottom of that mini league everytime and for the money spent, we should (and could) have done better.
Cant blame him for other team deficiencies, and where were the hardly cash strapped manager of Spurs, Man City, finishing up. And but for a poor decision at Wembley (hardly MON fault) chances are he could have had a cup in the cabinet. So yep, i can see why high octane resistance.
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Yes. With Darren Bent in the side 100% yes. Shame he didn't buy him when he was here. Still, over McClaren, Hughes, McLeish, Martinez and Rafa I would certainly take MON.
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Start a poll please. Then ask Oliver "I bet Villa fans would love O'Neill back" Holt to read out the results on Election Special. Then have him killed.
I also bet fans would love to have such similar and promising signings now ready to exit again coming back through the door. Who can argue against his record of spotting talent and them developing into INTERNATIONAL players.
Doesn't a previous manager who first brought Milner to the club get the credit for spotting talent? We'd all have signed him anyway after that on loan season so MoN wasn't exactly unique in wanting him in B6. So really, that leaves Young.
Against that we have the list of wasted money, which we all know.
And JUST those two resulted in nr 50 million!! coming back into the club (minus expenditure of course). What a poor manager to consider returning.
So we're agreed then, it's just Ashley Young he spotted.
And the profit we'll make on him will just about cancel out the loss we took on Curtis. So yes, he's a poor manager to consider returning.
Is that the Curtis as in England international call-up when at the club who then got injured?
It's the Curtis Davis currently playing in the Championship after being sold at a massive loss.
Or do you consider Curtis a great signing and the kind we should bring Mon back to make more of?
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Absolutely not! His football bored me to the brink of tears towards the end.
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Wow, i am stunned that anyone would have him back.
I fail to see how he would be a good choice now, when we have less money. He showed little or no application for coaching players so his cheque-book style of management is not what is needed in our current circumstances.
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I'd have him back as long as his tail was visibly between his legs upon his return.
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
we are looking (realistically) at managers below even his level now
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Start a poll please. Then ask Oliver "I bet Villa fans would love O'Neill back" Holt to read out the results on Election Special. Then have him killed.
I also bet fans would love to have such similar and promising signings now ready to exit again coming back through the door. Who can argue against his record of spotting talent and them developing into INTERNATIONAL players.
Doesn't a previous manager who first brought Milner to the club get the credit for spotting talent? We'd all have signed him anyway after that on loan season so MoN wasn't exactly unique in wanting him in B6. So really, that leaves Young.
Against that we have the list of wasted money, which we all know.
And JUST those two resulted in nr 50 million!! coming back into the club (minus expenditure of course). What a poor manager to consider returning.
So we're agreed then, it's just Ashley Young he spotted.
And the profit we'll make on him will just about cancel out the loss we took on Curtis. So yes, he's a poor manager to consider returning.
Is that the Curtis as in England international call-up when at the club who then got injured?
It's the Curtis Davis currently playing in the Championship after being sold at a massive loss.
Or do you consider Curtis a great signing and the kind we should bring Mon back to make more of?
Just to play devils advocate, although I agree that Davies was a shocking signing, it could be argued that the purchases (and subsequent sales) of Ash and Milner enabled us to be in a position to compete in the market and buy Darren Bent. If we are saying that Ash and Milner went for 34 mil plus Ireland that equates to about 40 mil in sales for players who cost a total of 21 mil. That 19 mil or so profit is Bent's fee right there.
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
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Not a chance. He's a major reason we are in the position we are in today. For a large part of his time with us he was good for the club but the ending was very sour indeed. No one person is bigger than the club and tried to be.
And he has probably learned that such good positions and clubs dont come very often as he is finding out now.
And as you at least are brave enough to admit, he was good for the club. Now add a bit of sweet syrup to remove any sourness and a manager with a good track record is back at the helm.
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
we are looking (realistically) at managers below even his level now
Indeed. There's no way he'd want to work within the financial constraints he helped to create.
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Absolutely not! His football bored me to the brink of tears towards the end.
even the games away from home?
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
You mean the shortlist that everybodies guessing over?
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
And what has he done since August to make him too big for us? What top-class teams have been beating a path to his door, desperate to acquire his services?
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I agree they were good signings Holtenderinthesky, but my point is that GV claimed MoN should be considered as manager again partly because of his signings. Milner was an obvious one we would all have made after his loan spell. So that really leaves only AY as talent spotted and it was obvious he had something at Watford, fair play it was us who stumped up the cash.
But the amount we spunked on fees and wages under MoN far outweighs the profit we will make on those 2, or even 3 if we sell Downing.
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Not in a million years.
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
You mean the shortlist that everybodies guessing over?
ok we are all guessing
did we ask to speak to Martinez?
not a good start
better or worse than MON in your opinion?
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He's not coming back, I don't want him back and to be honest you don't want him back either. FUCK IT.
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wow wow lads
im not saying MON is world class, far from it
the sad fact of the matter is, where we are now we cant even attract a manager of his standing - even now after being out of the game for a season
unless we are starting with Martinez then working our way up?
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Er...didn't he just drag the club through a tribunal? After teddy went sailing out of the pram?
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
You mean the shortlist that everybodies guessing over?
ok we are all guessing
did we ask to speak to Martinez?
not a good start
better or worse than MON in your opinion?
Better.
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So what happens the next time he throws his toys out of the pram then?
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But the amount we spunked on fees and wages under MoN far outweighs the profit we will make on those 2, or even 3 if we sell Downing.
That was the sentence I would have written almost to the word if I wasn't playing devils advocate. However, Carew for Baros, Ash, Milner, Downing, Friedel, Delph, and to some extent I have to say Dunne and Collins were inspired signings. The latter pair were part of the side that almost saw us into the CL with a couple of trophies and so I think MON deserves credit for bringing them in and getting them playing.
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
You mean the shortlist that everybodies guessing over?
ok we are all guessing
did we ask to speak to Martinez?
not a good start
better or worse than MON in your opinion?
Better.
why?
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MON signed some good players, and signed some absolutely horribly shit players some of whom are still here picking up a wage somehow. If anything it's probably blotted his CV forever. Nobody really wants Marlon Harewood or Habib Beye if they can help it, even if they're an imbecile.
I think we can still attract a decent manger, but I've just drunk three bottles of wine so what do I know, eh? EH?
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
You mean the shortlist that everybodies guessing over?
ok we are all guessing
did we ask to speak to Martinez?
not a good start
better or worse than MON in your opinion?
Better.
why?
Because he isn't a fucking ****** who walked out on us and in the words of someone on here coudn't have caused more damage if he'd set fire to Bodymoor.
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
You mean the shortlist that everybodies guessing over?
ok we are all guessing
did we ask to speak to Martinez?
not a good start
better or worse than MON in your opinion?
Better.
why?
Because he isn't a fucking c*** who walked out on us and in the words of someone on here coudn't have caused more damage if he'd set fire to Bodymoor.
oh right i thought we were talking about managerial abilities here
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His Signings were sh!te..
Good:
Carew
Friedel
Downing
Delph
Indifferent:
Petrov
Cueller
Davies
Collins
Dunne
Bad:
Zat
Maloney
Agathe
Sutton
Heskey
Bardsley
Kiraly
Routledge
Salifou
Harewood
Reo-Coker
Sidwell
Brad Guzan
Shorey
L Young
Beye
Warnock
I havent included Milner & young because even my gran could have spotted their talent. And it was Randy who paid over the odds to get them in anyway.
That a bit harsh!!. But that only highlights the miracle of qualifying for europe, finishing 6th, LC winners (but for referee decision) and with IYO, such so called bad signings!!
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
You mean the shortlist that everybodies guessing over?
ok we are all guessing
did we ask to speak to Martinez?
not a good start
better or worse than MON in your opinion?
Better.
why?
Because he isn't a fucking c*** who walked out on us and in the words of someone on here coudn't have caused more damage if he'd set fire to Bodymoor.
Being objective Dave would you say that MON did a good job at Villa in the time he was here, before he left us in the shit?
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
You mean the shortlist that everybodies guessing over?
ok we are all guessing
did we ask to speak to Martinez?
not a good start
better or worse than MON in your opinion?
Better.
why?
Because he isn't a fucking c*** who walked out on us and in the words of someone on here coudn't have caused more damage if he'd set fire to Bodymoor.
oh right i thought we were talking about managerial abilities here
real world Irishvillain - he's taken the club to a tribunal after leaving and is apparently 'very pleased' with the result. In what galaxy is that a basis for, 'come home Martin, all is forgiven?'
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He did okay. Given that he enjoyed the best conditions any Villa manager ever has, he was good but not spectacularly so. The way he left and his legacy ruin it.
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Yeah yeah yeah. Let's just all have a fight about it.
I'm handy!
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
You mean the shortlist that everybodies guessing over?
ok we are all guessing
did we ask to speak to Martinez?
not a good start
better or worse than MON in your opinion?
Better.
why?
Because he isn't a fucking c*** who walked out on us and in the words of someone on here coudn't have caused more damage if he'd set fire to Bodymoor.
oh right i thought we were talking about managerial abilities here
real world Irishvillain - he's taken the club to a tribunal after leaving and is apparently 'very pleased' with the result. In what galaxy is that a basis for, 'come home Martin, all is forgiven?'
If MON is pleased with the result of the tribunal would that not indicate that he was somehow vindicated? That's not my belief it's a genuine question.
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
You mean the shortlist that everybodies guessing over?
ok we are all guessing
did we ask to speak to Martinez?
not a good start
better or worse than MON in your opinion?
Better.
why?
Because he isn't a fucking c*** who walked out on us and in the words of someone on here coudn't have caused more damage if he'd set fire to Bodymoor.
Oooooooh the short memories of how great things were under DoL and that famous banner saying how much we loved him. Things really must have took a real dive when MON came along.
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What the fuck has O'Leary got to do with anything?
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
Without a shadow of a doubt the most pathetically stupid thing i've ever read on the internet.
really?
its not what the shortlist we have is telling me
You mean the shortlist that everybodies guessing over?
ok we are all guessing
did we ask to speak to Martinez?
not a good start
better or worse than MON in your opinion?
Better.
why?
Because he isn't a fucking c*** who walked out on us and in the words of someone on here coudn't have caused more damage if he'd set fire to Bodymoor.
oh right i thought we were talking about managerial abilities here
real world Irishvillain - he's taken the club to a tribunal after leaving and is apparently 'very pleased' with the result. In what galaxy is that a basis for, 'come home Martin, all is forgiven?'
real world - i said we cant even attract a manger of MON'S standing now
if we wanted to speak with Martinez - thats backing up my point
the op was would you want him back? i said yes
for what he done before he left - of course i would
i know it wasnt a real question and randy wasnt clearing the ground for his return
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Oooooooh the short memories of how great things were under DoL and that famous banner saying how much we loved him. Things really must have took a real dive when MON came along.
Nobody's mentioned O'Leary.
How many times does it have to be explained? He did okay. He left us in circumstances designed to cause maximum damage.
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What the fuck has O'Leary got to do with anything?
I think he is pointing out that we improved under MON after the previous manager, who happened to be David O'Leary, was a disaster.
EDIT: But then, as Dave says, he left us at the worst possible time and so will go down in history as being as much of a pr**K as DOL in many peoples view.
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Been there, tried him, didn't work. Let's try someone new.
Now come on seriously; I know this is just a bit of What if chatter. But being serious, in what way didnt he exactly work in the overall scheme of things?
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Taking the blinkers OFF for a minute. IF a potential manager (other than MON) was linked with the current vacancy came with this record http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_O'Neill (and replace the Villa section/part in WIKI with another club, say Everton) would there be any objection?
And my last post for now is that Why has everyone avoided answering this valid point about the blinkers.
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What the fuck has O'Leary got to do with anything?
I think he is pointing out that we improved under MON after the previous manager, who happened to be David O'Leary, was a disaster.
A billionaire new owner might have had something to do with that.
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So it wasn't exactly a huge achievement to improve then was it, especially as he had a Jabsquillion quid to spend?
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What the fuck has O'Leary got to do with anything?
I think he is pointing out that we improved under MON after the previous manager, who happened to be David O'Leary, was a disaster.
A billionaire new owner might have had something to do with that.
Yes but if we are to accept that MON made so many bad signings and screwed us with the wage bill how, by that rationelle, can the "billionaire owner" have improved us? It was MON who brought them in. Do you see my point? How can Randy take credit for buying the players that MON shouldn't have signed?
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so MON leaves us in the shit at the start of last season - evil man
just erase his seasons out then?
we settled out of court?
why did we do that?
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so MON leaves us in the shit at the start of last season - evil man
just erase his seasons out then?
we settled out of court?
why did we do that?
Perhaps because, as with most litigation cases, it is not beneficial to drag the club through the courts when we have so many other issues associated with running a huge business.
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HEITS - you know? I haven't a clue about the outcome of the tribunal, and I must admit I was surprised at the reports of the outcome, i.e. that MON said he was happy.
I posted in the belief that if MON was happy then Villa were not, because of the context. So, as a Villa Fan - If Villa were not happy then why on earth would we want to invite back somebody who left us in the lurch, condemned us to a 'transitional season' and then screwed us over in a legal process at the end of it?
Like you, I am sometimes genuinely surprised at the actions of some of the people in charge of the club. But I have to say that last August and last month, MON left me breathless. I really don't want that man anywhere near the club again.
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The way he left and his legacy ruin it.
Would you say the same about Ron Saunders?
To answer the OP's question, no. Like that ex that you had great times with the manner of his departure probably means it's not a good idea to go back. I've witnessed a good 8-9 years of people sniping here at our 2 Irish ex-managers and it gets tiresome. It would be nice if we could just get behind our manager without certain people trying to outdo their mates in how outrageous they can be in their abuse. Yawn!!!
MON's legacy is that I posted 8-9 months before his appointment that he'd come to Villa and people said no way could we get him. That's how low we felt. Now we expect the likes of Ancelotti and Van Gaal to turn up at VP. He along with Randy's excellent stewardship lifted us out of the doldrums and made us feel we were going places again. I don't recall anyone complaining when he repeatedly referenced our European Cup win and I certianly don't remember Houllier mentioning it. Under SGT 2 and DOL we were relieved to avoid relegation, under MON we were disappointed not to be in the Champs League.
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The way he left and his legacy ruin it.
Would you say the same about Ron Saunders?
Now we expect the likes of Ancelotti and Van Gaal to turn up at VP.
Do we?
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I was only a nipper at the time but i'm pretty sure I remember a lot of hatred towards Saunders when he took his next job.
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so MON leaves us in the shit at the start of last season - evil man
just erase his seasons out then?
we settled out of court?
why did we do that?
Perhaps because, as with most litigation cases, it is not beneficial to drag the club through the courts when we have so many other issues associated with running a huge business.
well that is a way of looking at it i suppose
should have went through with it and gave the evil man no money for leaving us up shit creek
or was there another side to the story?
look i dont like MON for what he done last year - i just stated that we cannot attract a manager of MON's standing - even now
but if we are asking to talk to Martinez (so far he has "saved" wigan from relegation 2 years in a row now)
we are down sizing in a big way, that is how far we have fallen in a few years since Randy has taken over - after the genuine feel good factor when he bought into the Villa dream
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MON? 'Pearls to pigs' is always a phrase that comes up when I think of him. I'd have expected more from DOL given the same money MON had.
Put me on the ear wax diet.
Madirishvillain - I can see why you got the name. MON's standing has nothing to do with his (lack of) ability.
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No thank you.
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MON? 'Pearls to pigs' is always a phrase that comes up when I think of him. I'd have expected more from DOL given the same money MON had.
Put me on the ear wax diet.
Madirishvillain - I can see why you got the name. MON's standing has nothing to do with his (lack of) ability.
really Mark?
tell us more.......
or read the whole thread before bouncing in on the last page ::)
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Would you say the same about Ron Saunders?
We had tangible success under Saunders. What did we have under O'Neill? A couple of cup runs and league positions that should have been expected considering the outlay on players, albeit done consistently.
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Wouldn't have him anywhere near the place after the way he spat his dummy out and left us in the shit. That and his lack of tactical nouse . Oh, and his propensity toward signing journeymen players and not giving them a game. He can bugger off
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Absofuckinlutely NOT!!!!!! defo take the herpes over such a terrible idea!!!
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NO
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Regardless of how he left I would not want him back. I am not saying he was bad enough to be sacked but for me he had run out of ideas. He is a very formulaic manager and stubborn to boot. If he had shown signs of trying to change and modernise his methods there would be a dilemma to have him back.
However he showed no sign of extending his scouting network, spending more time on the training pitch, changing his assistant manger to inject some new ideas. Based on that, I do not think he could have improved from our 6th-ish placed finishes. He had plateaued and even to maintain that he would have probably needed to continue to spend money at a level we could not sustain.
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No chance. Shouldn't this have a poll out of interest?
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Definitely not.
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If he's never been here he'd be the obvious candidate. But because he has and left us in the brown stuff the answer has to be no.
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I wouldn't want him back that's a big NO from me.
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Yes. Sometimes you have to look forward and not back.
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Well, perhaps it's the distance but i'm not as vitriolic in my dislike of MON - sure he dropped us in it but so have other Villa Managers in the past.
So my answer is depends, there are others i'd prefer ahead of him, Van Gaal, Moyes for starters.
And there are others that I would still take MON over, McClaren, Martinez, Hughes.
Having said all that, we won't be asking him and even if we did he wouldn't be accepting - too much pride on both sides to allow this.
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Would you say the same about Ron Saunders?
We had tangible success under Saunders.
We did and it was great. But this is why I think we go over the top in our dislike of MON.
Saunders has a spat with the Chairman and walked out on us a week or two before the Quarter Final of the European Cup and pitched up the following week over at Small Heath.
MON had a spat with the Chairman and walked out on us 5 days before the start of a season.
I often think that Saunders reputation at the Villa stands the test of time because his spell at Blose was a failure - had he been a real sucess we'd be hating him more than anyone. So the actions of both men were highly questionable against our Club - you'd never know that though.
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He is too old and his football brain is stuck in the 80's.
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Categorically no. Aside from the prickish way he left, he'd hit his 'ceiling' as far as I am concerned. He had a great chance, was heavily backed financially and didn't take it. He did a good job, but not good enough to behave the way he did.
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Start a poll please. Then ask Oliver "I bet Villa fans would love O'Neill back" Holt to read out the results on Election Special. Then have him killed.
I also bet fans would love to have such similar and promising signings now ready to exit again coming back through the door. Who can argue against his record of spotting talent and them developing into INTERNATIONAL players.
Doesn't a previous manager who first brought Milner to the club get the credit for spotting talent? We'd all have signed him anyway after that on loan season so MoN wasn't exactly unique in wanting him in B6. So really, that leaves Young.
Against that we have the list of wasted money, which we all know.
And JUST those two resulted in nr 50 million!! coming back into the club (minus expenditure of course). What a poor manager to consider returning.
So we're agreed then, it's just Ashley Young he spotted.
And the profit we'll make on him will just about cancel out the loss we took on Curtis. So yes, he's a poor manager to consider returning.
Is that the Curtis as in England international call-up when at the club who then got injured?
It's the Curtis Davis currently playing in the Championship after being sold at a massive loss.
Or do you consider Curtis a great signing and the kind we should bring Mon back to make more of?
Start a poll please. Then ask Oliver "I bet Villa fans would love O'Neill back" Holt to read out the results on Election Special. Then have him killed.
I also bet fans would love to have such similar and promising signings now ready to exit again coming back through the door. Who can argue against his record of spotting talent and them developing into INTERNATIONAL players.
Doesn't a previous manager who first brought Milner to the club get the credit for spotting talent? We'd all have signed him anyway after that on loan season so MoN wasn't exactly unique in wanting him in B6. So really, that leaves Young.
Against that we have the list of wasted money, which we all know.
And JUST those two resulted in nr 50 million!! coming back into the club (minus expenditure of course). What a poor manager to consider returning.
So we're agreed then, it's just Ashley Young he spotted.
And the profit we'll make on him will just about cancel out the loss we took on Curtis. So yes, he's a poor manager to consider returning.
Is that the Curtis as in England international call-up when at the club who then got injured?
It's the Curtis Davis currently playing in the Championship after being sold at a massive loss.
Or do you consider Curtis a great signing and the kind we should bring Mon back to make more of?
Just to play devils advocate, although I agree that Davies was a shocking signing, it could be argued that the purchases (and subsequent sales) of Ash and Milner enabled us to be in a position to compete in the market and buy Darren Bent. If we are saying that Ash and Milner went for 34 mil plus Ireland that equates to about 40 mil in sales for players who cost a total of 21 mil. That 19 mil or so profit is Bent's fee right there.
And there speaks (as the name suggests) is another true hardcore fan brave enough to look outside that box of emotional blinkers preventing the seeing of the obvious solution to current difficulties. Its such posts like this that shows that you cant put the blinkers on the majority of rational thinking fans on this board.
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No.
The way he left us was unproffessional, dis-respectful and out of order.
The only thing i would say though is that i honestly believe that the squad of players he left behind were better than what Ged managed to get out of them last season. A combination of an absolutely shocking injury list and poor management on Ged and Gmac's part played more of a part for our overall poor season than MON walking out.
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Regardless of the manner of his exit, the mantra of "never go back" usually holds to be true. The only Villa-related exceptions I can think of off the top of my head are Sid as a player and Brian Little's return as manager.
MON was the right appointment at the right time. The buzz that he undeniably brought, together with the the passing of the Ellis ownership, succeeded in turning around a club that very possibility was heading towards relegation.
He brought us a long way and for one season in the middle of his tenure played some exciting football, but for the money he spent it is difficult to argue against the charge that there should have perhaps been more tangible success - he won more at Leicester!
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Yes. Sometimes you have to look forward and not back.
And especially when walking through a minefield which is the position NOW after Martinez preferring to stay at that powerhouse of football. Add to that MON already know the club, players, fans and you got a proven manager http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_O'Neill who wouldnt need time to bed in (how many league points is that worth?), ready to go.
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I would rather hack off my penis with a rusty bread knife than see Mon walk through these doors again the fucking arsehole
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If he's never been here he'd be the obvious candidate. But because he has and left us in the brown stuff the answer has to be no.
Also took club out the brown stuff too. And after Martinez, the club is even deeper in it without oneil. So who better to restore the pride back than MON.
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Without a doubt. We are becoming a complete joke again, when we can't even get the manager of Wigan to come to us.
Mon is highly respected and would make us a force again.
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And his shit signings, he'd probably sell Bent and buy earnshaw
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I'm staggered that some would have him back.
That c unt dropped us in the shit when HE KNEW it would have the maximum negative impact on the club.
He then proceeded to fuck us over by taking us to a tribunal to screw more money out of us.
That wanker needs total derision, not forgiveness.
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I forgot all about his shit signings. Downing, Young, Milner, Friedel ect ect.
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Start a poll please. Then ask Oliver "I bet Villa fans would love O'Neill back" Holt to read out the results on Election Special. Then have him killed.
I also bet fans would love to have such similar and promising signings now ready to exit again coming back through the door. Who can argue against his record of spotting talent and them developing into INTERNATIONAL players.
Doesn't a previous manager who first brought Milner to the club get the credit for spotting talent? We'd all have signed him anyway after that on loan season so MoN wasn't exactly unique in wanting him in B6. So really, that leaves Young.
Against that we have the list of wasted money, which we all know.
And JUST those two resulted in nr 50 million!! coming back into the club (minus expenditure of course). What a poor manager to consider returning.
So we're agreed then, it's just Ashley Young he spotted.
And the profit we'll make on him will just about cancel out the loss we took on Curtis. So yes, he's a poor manager to consider returning.
Is that the Curtis as in England international call-up when at the club who then got injured?
It's the Curtis Davis currently playing in the Championship after being sold at a massive loss.
Or do you consider Curtis a great signing and the kind we should bring Mon back to make more of?
As you pointed out, Curtis is now playing championship footy at the mo. But under MON he raised his game to englnd call up level. Dosent that show inspired motivational management at its best and the type of manager needed NOW given the current state of affairs?
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Without a doubt. We are becoming a complete joke again, when we can't even get the manager of Wigan to come to us.
Mon is highly respected and would make us a force again.
What a load of complete and utter wank !!!!
'We are becoming a complete joke again' !!!!!
Get a fucking grip
Get behind the club. Stop listening to Talkshite and reading the sun.
Its bad enough the outside world talking shite, we don't need 'fans' coming on here spouting tripe as well.
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If he's never been here he'd be the obvious candidate. But because he has and left us in the brown stuff the answer has to be no.
Also took club out the brown stuff too. And after Martinez, the club is even deeper in it without oneil. So who better to restore the pride back than MON.
I was an O'Neill fan and would probably still be if he hadn't left us in the lurch. To answer your question David Moyes or Mark Hughes would achieve what O'Neill did, of that I'm fairly confident.
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Without a doubt. We are becoming a complete joke again, when we can't even get the manager of Wigan to come to us.
Mon is highly respected and would make us a force again.
What a load of complete and utter wank !!!!
'We are becoming a complete joke again' !!!!!
Get a fucking grip
Get behind the club. Stop listening to Talkshite and reading the sun.
Its bad enough the outside world talking shite, we don't need 'fans' coming on here spouting tripe as well.
Well said sir.
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Without a doubt. We are becoming a complete joke again, when we can't even get the manager of Wigan to come to us.
Mon is highly respected and would make us a force again.
What a load of complete and utter wank !!!!
'We are becoming a complete joke again' !!!!!
Get a fucking grip
Get behind the club. Stop listening to Talkshite and reading the sun.
Its bad enough the outside world talking shite, we don't need 'fans' coming on here spouting tripe as well.
Seconded.
Villa seem to want to do things quietly and with some dignity but this is being totally perverted by the beast that is today's media. Maybe we pissed them off when we didn't 'do a Newcastle' last year. Maybe it's the Birmingham psyche of a sense of entitlement cross-bred with a (sometimes un)healthy self-deprecatory humour) that rankles with people not familiar with the region?
But it's quite frustrating when our own fans seem to want to believe the comment (bollocks) that's currently being reporting as fact.
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the sad thing is wether we wanted him back or not MO'N is too big for this club now
we are looking (realistically) at managers below even his level now
Indeed. There's no way he'd want to work within the financial constraints he helped to create.
He and no other manager or club will have NO option regarding financial constraints with the Fair play rules coming into play. RL and any other football chairman/owner now have very good undeniable reason to stay within the clubs generated finances.
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I'd have no problem with MON coming back.
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I'm a big MON fan but I don't think he should come back. If he does while I have no doubt he'd do a good job at the time we'd be even further up the creek when he throws his toys out again. Anyone else think he might be hanging on for England?
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Without a doubt. We are becoming a complete joke again, when we can't even get the manager of Wigan to come to us.
Mon is highly respected and would make us a force again.
The depressing situation and the realism couldnt have been summed up any better.
Who can the club attract of such high regard/calibre other than MON?
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Lay off the crack, kids.
If that twat came back, I'd buy a season ticket in the front row of the Trinity so I could hurl abuse and gob at him on a bi-weekly basis.
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No. He had the job and left it. He's a quitter and i reckon this is a factor in why he's still unemployed.
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Lay off the crack, kids.
If that twat came back, I'd buy a season ticket in the front row of the Trinity so I could hurl abuse and gob at him on a bi-weekly basis.
thats the spirit my lover
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Lay off the crack, kids.
If that twat came back, I'd buy a season ticket in the front row of the Trinity so I could hurl abuse and gob at him on a bi-weekly basis.
Well at least thats season tickets gone up by one. So thats more coffers coming into the club. And that just by speculating on this message board!!
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I forgot all about his shit signings. Downing, Young, Milner, Friedel ect ect.
Etc etc? You mean you can't think of any more? Davies £9m wasted he didn't play him, harewood, knight, shorey, salifou, young L, heskey, warnock, beye, all shit we can't get rid of. Not to mention selling cahill & other young talent. Don't believe the hype
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His Signings were sh!te..
Good:
Carew
Friedel
Downing
Delph
Indifferent:
Petrov
Cueller
Davies
Collins
Dunne
Bad:
Zat
Maloney
Agathe
Sutton
Heskey
Bardsley
Kiraly
Routledge
Salifou
Harewood
Reo-Coker
Sidwell
Brad Guzan
Shorey
L Young
Beye
Warnock
I havent included Milner & young because even my gran could have spotted their talent. And it was Randy who paid over the odds to get them in anyway.
Never the less where did these players end-up and who was manager.
End of the day there were other prem clubs who could have signed them and didnt.
RL and MON took the gamble and its paid off.
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Without a doubt. We are becoming a complete joke again, when we can't even get the manager of Wigan to come to us.
Mon is highly respected and would make us a force again.
What a load of complete and utter wank !!!!
'We are becoming a complete joke again' !!!!!
Get a fucking grip
Get behind the club. Stop listening to Talkshite and reading the sun.
Its bad enough the outside world talking shite, we don't need 'fans' coming on here spouting tripe as well.
All right mate no need to be rude!
Of course us 'fans' who have been supporting the club for 30 odd years should just go away if we say something negative about Villa. Again I apologise for thinking that fluking 9th is totally acceptable, also for not being able to tempt a second rate manager is the norm. If you think a big names is coming then I think it is you who needs to get a grip
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Is it April 1st?
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Absolutely not! His football bored me to the brink of tears towards the end.
Yep, and the last quarter of last season were really exciting having to struggle for prem survival.
Dont know about you. But i think RL/fans would prefer to be bored with top half of table finish.
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I find it so depressing that Martin O-fucking-Neill still looms over this site like the smell of last week's tuna. The bloke's history as far the Villa's concerned. Or would be if his reign wasn't STILL being dissected so regularly. Let it go, for goodness' sake!
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Wow, i am stunned that anyone would have him back.
I fail to see how he would be a good choice now, when we have less money. He showed little or no application for coaching players so his cheque-book style of management is not what is needed in our current circumstances.
Financial fair play rules mean ALL clubs have restraints on budgets so it would be no different with what ever club (bar a chelski/ MC ) and how likely is that to happen?
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The guy walked out on us 5 days before the season started taking most of his mates with him. To rub salt into the wound he does us for unfair dismissal .No way should we have him back.
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Unsurprisingly maybe, no.
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If Curtis Davies is judged as indifferent I'd hate to see a really bad signing
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Not particularly - I didn't particularly want him at the villa when he was there.
But I have said for 10 days now - stranger things have happened so I am not going to rule it out.
He would be no where near the top of my list - but I'd want him over some of the dross we've been linked with - McLaren, Martinez etc.
Personally, if we are going that style - we might as well go for Hughes, who will probably guarentee the same results, and may get better.
So a long shot - but it could happen
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I agree they were good signings Holtenderinthesky, but my point is that GV claimed MoN should be considered as manager again partly because of his signings. Milner was an obvious one we would all have made after his loan spell. So that really leaves only AY as talent spotted and it was obvious he had something at Watford, fair play it was us who stumped up the cash.
But the amount we spunked on fees and wages under MoN far outweighs the profit we will make on those 2, or even 3 if we sell Downing.
(Milner was an obvious one we would all have made after his loan spell. So that really leaves only AY as talent spotted and it was obvious he had something at Watford, fair play it was us who stumped up the cash.)
It was so abvious that other scouts/pundits who may have been watching at the time didnt stick their neck out to sign him. Again the facts are that MON also saw the potential (as with AY) and signed him up before any other club manager. And in the case of AY, remember when the 9 mill transfer fee was mention some on here (inc myself) questioned RL/MON paying such a high fee at the time. Guess who have now been proven to be right?
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I certainly wish he hadn't left, given the unholy mess we now find ourselves in. That's the legacy of Martin O'Neill.
The man is a complete ******.
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Absolutely not! His football bored me to the brink of tears towards the end.
Yep, and the last quarter of last season were really exciting having to struggle for prem survival.
Dont know about you. But i think RL/fans would prefer to be bored with top half of table finish.
We finished top half last season.
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The way he left and his legacy ruin it.
Would you say the same about Ron Saunders?
To answer the OP's question, no. Like that ex that you had great times with the manner of his departure probably means it's not a good idea to go back. I've witnessed a good 8-9 years of people sniping here at our 2 Irish ex-managers and it gets tiresome. It would be nice if we could just get behind our manager without certain people trying to outdo their mates in how outrageous they can be in their abuse. Yawn!!!
MON's legacy is that I posted 8-9 months before his appointment that he'd come to Villa and people said no way could we get him. That's how low we felt. Now we expect the likes of Ancelotti and Van Gaal to turn up at VP. He along with Randy's excellent stewardship lifted us out of the doldrums and made us feel we were going places again. I don't recall anyone complaining when he repeatedly referenced our European Cup win and I certianly don't remember Houllier mentioning it. Under SGT 2 and DOL we were relieved to avoid relegation, under MON we were disappointed not to be in the Champs League.
GREAT post with great points made there BV
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Id prefer to eat and shit a couple of razor blades...
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The way he left and his legacy ruin it.
Would you say the same about Ron Saunders?
To answer the OP's question, no. Like that ex that you had great times with the manner of his departure probably means it's not a good idea to go back. I've witnessed a good 8-9 years of people sniping here at our 2 Irish ex-managers and it gets tiresome. It would be nice if we could just get behind our manager without certain people trying to outdo their mates in how outrageous they can be in their abuse. Yawn!!!
MON's legacy is that I posted 8-9 months before his appointment that he'd come to Villa and people said no way could we get him. That's how low we felt. Now we expect the likes of Ancelotti and Van Gaal to turn up at VP. He along with Randy's excellent stewardship lifted us out of the doldrums and made us feel we were going places again. I don't recall anyone complaining when he repeatedly referenced our European Cup win and I certianly don't remember Houllier mentioning it. Under SGT 2 and DOL we were relieved to avoid relegation, under MON we were disappointed not to be in the Champs League.
GREAT post with great points made there BV
8-9 months before we couldn't have got him. Because we didn't have a billionaire chairman. As a chequebook manager, he wouldn't have taken the job.
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Have MON back? Have you been drinking bleach?
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YES!
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We did and it was great. But this is why I think we go over the top in our dislike of MON.
Saunders has a spat with the Chairman and walked out on us a week or two before the Quarter Final of the European Cup and pitched up the following week over at Small Heath.
MON had a spat with the Chairman and walked out on us 5 days before the start of a season.
I often think that Saunders reputation at the Villa stands the test of time because his spell at Blose was a failure - had he been a real sucess we'd be hating him more than anyone. So the actions of both men were highly questionable against our Club - you'd never know that though.
Sorry, but that's rubbish imo. Saunders' reputation at Villa stands the test of time because he gained us promotion, won the league cup twice, won the league and left us with a squad that won the european cup. That's why he's still held in high regard, 30 years after he left in difficult circumstances (but from what I can gather as that was before my time, Saunders had more of a valid reason for leaving than MON did? Would that be a fair assessment?). There isn't a chance in hell of MON's tenure being thought of with the same fondness 30 years from now, even ignoring the way he left. That's why any comparisons between the two are pointless.
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Saunders' reputation survives what is still the ultimate betrayal because of the trophies he won prior to his departure, that his team went on and lifted the European Cup and the fact that in the following years both Blues and later Albion failed to usurp Villa as top dogs (although if you consider the state of all three clubs by 85/86/87, that is hardly anything for us to boast about).
If we hadn't won the European Cup or if Blues had gone on and achieved things - which for a short period in in late 82/83/84 they looked capable of - I don't think Saunders would be remembered with anything like the same degree of fondness.
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The way he left and his legacy ruin it.
Would you say the same about Ron Saunders?
To answer the OP's question, no. Like that ex that you had great times with the manner of his departure probably means it's not a good idea to go back. I've witnessed a good 8-9 years of people sniping here at our 2 Irish ex-managers and it gets tiresome. It would be nice if we could just get behind our manager without certain people trying to outdo their mates in how outrageous they can be in their abuse. Yawn!!!
MON's legacy is that I posted 8-9 months before his appointment that he'd come to Villa and people said no way could we get him. That's how low we felt. Now we expect the likes of Ancelotti and Van Gaal to turn up at VP. He along with Randy's excellent stewardship lifted us out of the doldrums and made us feel we were going places again. I don't recall anyone complaining when he repeatedly referenced our European Cup win and I certianly don't remember Houllier mentioning it. Under SGT 2 and DOL we were relieved to avoid relegation, under MON we were disappointed not to be in the Champs League.
GREAT post with great points made there BV
Try again. The comparisons were pointless - Saunders left us with justification and with a team capable of greater glories. O' Neill arrived because of Randy. The references to his and O'Leary's nationality are a shabby way of insulting his critics. His legacy was less money for his successors , a massive wage bill and a departure that is still causing problems now.
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30 years later and with the benefit of hindsight (his leading Blose and Olbyun to relegation) Saunders tenure was our golden age. Now, he is my favourite all time Villa Manager.
However, between 1982-1985 he really was our Judus. His betrayal was actually far worse than MON's - not just because he walked out but beacuse of where he ended up and when.
Imagaine if H&V had a website in February 1982 - a 300 pager if ever there was one.
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As soon as the club questioned MON's transfer dealings & restrict his influence over everything regarding the playing side of the club (except tactics - as he had no control over this) he walked out. It will NEVER happen.
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Seems like a pointless thread in the fact that anyone who doesn't want him you disagree with completely and anyone who shows the slightest bit of praise towards him is a "brave lion". You may aswell just started off with and "and if you don't, your wrong". The fact that only about 5 people have said a catagorical yes speaks volumes
To answer the question, unsurprisingly its a no. He left us in the shit, and I genuinly believe he did it on purpose. He's still costing us money now with wages and the tribunal! The man has made us look like fools and given us a bad name. What "top name singings" did he bring in? Fair play to spotting AY but I can't remember a top name coming in. His signing grew painfully obvious and uninspiring. Much as I loved coker - 8 mill for someone receiving death threats from his own fans, desperate for the club to sell him and the club desperate to sell and we still paid too much! 4 million for harewood, playing at barnsley now. 10 mill for davies? I could go on but its all been said...
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No. Discounting the fact he's a tactical half-wit, and a treacherous bottler, he took an absolute fortune and got no higher than 6th. Something that most of the previous encumbants achieved or improved on with a fraction of the money. In the table of honours won and league positions reached in the last 30 years he's barely above DOL.
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No - he was the right manager at the time he came in, but definitely not now. His spiteful, flouncing departure shows a serious character flaw.
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Absolutely not, see above.
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No. He's a bog eyed, gutless ******.
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There aren't many things we could do now to make ourselves look even more of a mess but humiliating ourselves and bringing back that selfish ****** would be one of them.
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No chance. Are we Villa or Martin O'Neill FC?
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It won't happen, but it is a yes for me. Dream world stuff really.
But,
I'm amazed that everyone still holds MON 100% to blame for his departure and Randy 0%. We dont know the details behind his decision, but what we do know now is that he took the club to arbitration for unfair dismissal and was awarded a sum of money. The matter wouldnt have got to that stage if he didny have a case, which means that Randy/the board did something which he (and an arbitrator) felt he could not continue. We can only speculate what that was, most likely transfer money. For the record, I think he was wrong to walk out, he should have stayed one more year. I just dont get the vitriol levied at him, when Randy gets off scot free in most fans eyes.
There will never be agreement about his time here, but some of the stuff posted is ridiculous. The fact is he did spend quite a lot of money, but what people seem to forget that he only spent an amount to try keep up with the big boys, not surpass them, which is what he did. To get to the next level we needed more investment. City have shown us this year the investment needed. We could talk all night about the individual signings and let people be as selective as they wish but the fact of the matter is as a whole his signings improved us greatly and brought us to the brink of Champions League football.
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No.
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Not a chance.
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I agree they were good signings Holtenderinthesky, but my point is that GV claimed MoN should be considered as manager again partly because of his signings. Milner was an obvious one we would all have made after his loan spell. So that really leaves only AY as talent spotted and it was obvious he had something at Watford, fair play it was us who stumped up the cash.
But the amount we spunked on fees and wages under MoN far outweighs the profit we will make on those 2, or even 3 if we sell Downing.
(Milner was an obvious one we would all have made after his loan spell. So that really leaves only AY as talent spotted and it was obvious he had something at Watford, fair play it was us who stumped up the cash.)
It was so abvious that other scouts/pundits who may have been watching at the time didnt stick their neck out to sign him. Again the facts are that MON also saw the potential (as with AY) and signed him up before any other club manager. And in the case of AY, remember when the 9 mill transfer fee was mention some on here (inc myself) questioned RL/MON paying such a high fee at the time. Guess who have now been proven to be right?
So we're agreed then, Milner needed no scouting as he'd already spent a year at the Villa, AY was an obvious talent and thanks to RL we had the money to pay for them. And as i've said, their profit will help recoup some of the money we lost on Sidwell, Davis, Harewood etc.
Or you can choose to ignore the millions we lost on dud signings and pretend their profit paid for Bent. You may prefer to look only at his 2 or 3 signings that we'd make a profit on, I prefer to look at the bigger picture.
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Milner is the only player MON signed who you can say we made a massive profit on. But then if DOL had the money we'd have probably have signed him earlier for half what we paid. Of the rest, Downing looks the only other one. Young, we'll be lucky to make 5m on him. Looking at our squad minus them 3, there's no-one bought in by MON who's a major asset.. Overall if you work out how much Cahill is worth now, then the whole MON period was a massive waste of resources, with nothing much to show a year later than old men, duds, Houllier's buys and our promising youth squad
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It won't happen, but it is a yes for me. Dream world stuff really.
But,
I'm amazed that everyone still holds MON 100% to blame for his departure and Randy 0%. We dont know the details behind his decision, but what we do know now is that he took the club to arbitration for unfair dismissal and was awarded a sum of money. The matter wouldnt have got to that stage if he didny have a case, which means that Randy/the board did something which he (and an arbitrator) felt he could not continue. We can only speculate what that was, most likely transfer money. For the record, I think he was wrong to walk out, he should have stayed one more year. I just dont get the vitriol levied at him, when Randy gets off scot free in most fans eyes.
There will never be agreement about his time here, but some of the stuff posted is ridiculous. The fact is he did spend quite a lot of money, but what people seem to forget that he only spent an amount to try keep up with the big boys, not surpass them, which is what he did. To get to the next level we needed more investment. City have shown us this year the investment needed. We could talk all night about the individual signings and let people be as selective as they wish but the fact of the matter is as a whole his signings improved us greatly and brought us to the brink of Champions League football.
A calmly expressed and well-reasoned post.
I do find it surprising that so many people appear to know exactly what happened when O'Neill left and are unable to imagine any circumstances that might have made his position untenable.
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Milner is the only player MON signed who you can say we made a massive profit on. But then if DOL had the money we'd have probably have signed him earlier for half what we paid. Of the rest, Downing looks the only other one. Young, we'll be lucky to make 5m on him. Looking at our squad minus them 3, there's no-one bought in by MON who's a major asset.. Overall if you work out how much Cahill is worth now, then the whole MON period was a massive waste of resources, with nothing much to show a year later than old men, duds, Houllier's buys and our promising youth squad
Probably the best crop of youth players to come through at any club in recent years. It was about time someone mentioned his youth player legacy, I'm surprised it was you though ;-)
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For some reason, I am reminded of this Harry Enfield character.
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Milner is the only player MON signed who you can say we made a massive profit on. But then if DOL had the money we'd have probably have signed him earlier for half what we paid. Of the rest, Downing looks the only other one. Young, we'll be lucky to make 5m on him. Looking at our squad minus them 3, there's no-one bought in by MON who's a major asset.. Overall if you work out how much Cahill is worth now, then the whole MON period was a massive waste of resources, with nothing much to show a year later than old men, duds, Houllier's buys and our promising youth squad
Probably the best crop of youth players to come through at any club in recent years. It was about time someone mentioned his youth player legacy, I'm surprised it was you though ;-)
erm they were already here when he arrived. In fact he sold the best sodding one.
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I think it is load of rubbish there is more chance of Smalll Heath playing in Champions League than Randy appoint MON again.
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A calmly expressed and well-reasoned post.
I do find it surprising that so many people appear to know exactly what happened when O'Neill left and are unable to imagine any circumstances that might have made his position untenable.
I don't think anyone can claim to know exactly what happened, but nothing, even anything being suggested by those who still support O'Neill, has convinced me that he had any justification for leaving 5 days before the start of the season.
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I would be amazed if the new manager achieves more than MON, but NO WAY!
HE LEFT US 5 DAYS BEFORE THE NEW SEASON!!
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I was happy with him and disappointed he left, would love to have him back, Milner & Cahill too.
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A calmly expressed and well-reasoned post.
I do find it surprising that so many people appear to know exactly what happened when O'Neill left and are unable to imagine any circumstances that might have made his position untenable.
I don't think anyone can claim to know exactly what happened, but nothing, even anything being suggested by those who still support O'Neill, has convinced me that he had any justification for leaving 5 days before the start of the season.
what would you say if he was given a budget to spend (subject to the sale of Milner), chose to spend it on McGeady and was knocked back by the board on the basis that they didn't think it was the right player to sign?
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I would say the board got that absolutely spot on, as we already had three decent wingers on the books.
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MON AGAIN? NO WAY EVER,
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I would say the board got that absolutely spot on, as we already had three decent wingers on the books.
So you are happy for our board (who have little to no footballing knowledge) to override the manager's decision on who to sign?
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Looking at possible vacancies, im struggling to see which club he would take over.
Im sure that he'd prefer a good size club, decent chairman/owner with some guarrantees of having at least a few bob to spend, and TBH cant see many of those opportunities coming up at the moment. Maybe Sunderland at a push if things dont go as planned next season but other than them; MON could be a long time on the side lines.
The only other Scenario i can see fitting the criteria is to return back to VP.
The pros of such a reunion? Well,... Just look at the signings he made which have now either being called up to the full national team; OR have increased in their value since arriving. On the whole it quite a good record. Add to that, the fact that he & RL may look back with a tinge of regret but both be wiser and stronger after the event.
The cons of such a reunion; the reaction from the fans after the perception of being left in the lurch, and maybe having to reshape the team again for the season ahead.
What do you think. Would such a reunion be totally off the cards?
The man is an arsehole.
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I wouldn't be happy if they were recommending targets or had a spiv like Silkman at West Ham doing deals above the managers head.
Ultimately it's their (or the Lerner trusts) money though, so they might have a veto on any deal they see as lacking in value.
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If the board's money leads them to thinking of reappointing O'Neill, they will lose most of the goodwill they still might have. A disastrous choice in my view.
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The bloke has just taken £2million off us for 'constructive dismissal' so he is a non-runner.
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You'd think so....
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This thread is bizarre beyond belief.
Might as well have a thread about Margaret Thatcher being rejuvenated by the lizards and installed at the head of a new Thousand Year Reich.
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Maybe, but O'Neill is still a twat.
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I wouldn't be happy if they were recommending targets or had a spiv like Silkman at West Ham doing deals above the managers head.
Ultimately it's their (or the Lerner trusts) money though, so they might have a veto on any deal they see as lacking in value.
Ultimately it's his career though, so he might want to resign a job that has become a puppet role.
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The bloke has just taken £2million off us for 'constructive dismissal' so he is a non-runner.
Is that true. I have only ever seen that MON was happy with the result but there again I could have missed it. I didn't even know the reason for the legal action.
It has puzzled me why MON has been out of work for so long and this only came up recently. The only thing I could think of was that as he walked out on a contract, the club were preventing him from taking another job for another year, the same as gardening leave and then MON going to try and get the term reduced so that he could get a new job during the close season. Also, I thought that, as MON or the club have never come out and said anything direct about his walking out, was due to the club taking action against him.
I never could have imagined that a manager could leave and then take the club to a tribunal for constructive dismissal, presumably for not giving him money for transfers, especially when it would have meant the owner putting his hand in his pocket again. Together with the fact that, although instructed to cut the wage bill prior to this, was doing just the opposite.
It just goes to show that you can misjudge situations.
In answer to the OP, now f****** way would I have him back. As much for his decline in his final season and not being able to plan for the future of the club as for his walking out. When he was appointed I thought he was great but as time went on I saw that he was very limited as a manager.
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The bloke has just taken £2million off us for 'constructive dismissal' so he is a non-runner.
Is that true. I have only ever seen that MON was happy with the result but there again I could have missed it. I didn't even know the reason for the legal action.
It has puzzled me why MON has been out of work for so long and this only came up recently. The only thing I could think of was that as he walked out on a contract, the club were preventing him from taking another job for another year, the same as gardening leave and then MON going to try and get the term reduced so that he could get a new job during the close season. Also, I thought that, as MON or the club have never come out and said anything direct about his walking out, was due to the club taking action against him.
I never could have imagined that a manager could leave and then take the club to a tribunal for constructive dismissal, presumably for not giving him money for transfers, especially when it would have meant the owner putting his hand in his pocket again. Together with the fact that, although instructed to cut the wage bill prior to this, was doing just the opposite.
It just goes to show that you can misjudge situations.
In answer to the OP, now f****** way would I have him back. As much for his decline in his final season and not being able to plan for the future of the club as for his walking out. When he was appointed I thought he was great but as time went on I saw that he was very limited as a manager.
I agree with you about misjudging situations. It can only have been malicious gossip about the constructive dismissal thing. He could never have convinced any tribunal as they are not impressed by dwarfs who cannot look anyone in the eye.
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I wouldn't be happy if they were recommending targets or had a spiv like Silkman at West Ham doing deals above the managers head.
Ultimately it's their (or the Lerner trusts) money though, so they might have a veto on any deal they see as lacking in value.
Ultimately it's his career though, so he might want to resign a job that has become a puppet role.
So the big horrible Randy Lerner said a rare 'no' to Martin the Magnificent and the the latter was right to flounce off? Is that about the size of it?
Owners say no to purchases all the time, Redknapp often expressed his frustration with Levy last summer. Moyes probably knows a thing or two about the scenario also.
In fact, I can't think of too many clubs that would approve every single deal a manager puts forward, even the nouveau riche lot probably have some form of quality control occasionally.
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Of all the available managers on the market he's probably the one that (I mean this seriously) virtually guarantees you a boost in the playing staff you have at your disposal. His infectious enthusiasm, his high profile, his track record of polishing turds, his tried and tested backroom staff all points to a bright and trophy-laden future.
A club like ours, seemingly going backwards, with best players leaving and fans restless, should snap him up in an instant.
Mind you, if the c*** came crawling back on his hands and knees begging forgiveness, I'd stamp on his fingers.
And spear his dog.
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I would rather negotiate Spaghetti Junction on a pogo stick than have MON back.
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what would you say if he was given a budget to spend (subject to the sale of Milner), chose to spend it on McGeady and was knocked back by the board on the basis that they didn't think it was the right player to sign?
Still no reason to leave 5 days before the season. If McGeady was his target, then surely MON would have informed the board at the start of pre-season, so by your version of events they waited until the very last minute to say no? Do you really believe that? And where has this version come from by the way?
My understanding of things is that there couldn't be any signings until some of the deadwood was moved on to free up wages, irrespective of the milner sale.
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they agreed to buy Ireland just before MON left. While i'm willing to believe in theory that Lerner suddenly pulled the plug on MON's transfer funding, I find it very hard to believe he would agree to spend that amount of money if his manager had given any indication that he was so unhappy he was going to walk out.
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If you think about it at the time, the deals that were widely touted -plus the ones that actually went through- would have had the effect of increasing an already bloated wage bill substantially.
Milner £40K - out
Ireland £65K - in
McGeady £40-60K in
Keane £60 K in
We had already gone over budget in 2009. This is only speculation on my part, but what if RL had flagged is concerns to MON as far back as then but agreed to go over budget on the understanding that players would be moved on in Jan and the following summer?
Maybe MON intended to move players on, or maybe he was just paying RL lipservice and gambled on the prospect that RL would once again relent. Regardless -and as we've seen with the the accounts- could RL really afford to let the thing get even further out of hand?
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I've dipped in and out of this thread and not read all the comments, but if this was a poll what do we think the result would be?
I'd guess:
Yes 25%
No 75%
although its quite confusing as Gastonilla seems to post a lot with a positive view so he might have been double/triple counted.
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It won't happen, but it is a yes for me. Dream world stuff really.
But,
I'm amazed that everyone still holds MON 100% to blame for his departure and Randy 0%. We dont know the details behind his decision, but what we do know now is that he took the club to arbitration for unfair dismissal and was awarded a sum of money. The matter wouldnt have got to that stage if he didny have a case, which means that Randy/the board did something which he (and an arbitrator) felt he could not continue. We can only speculate what that was, most likely transfer money. For the record, I think he was wrong to walk out, he should have stayed one more year. I just dont get the vitriol levied at him, when Randy gets off scot free in most fans eyes.
There will never be agreement about his time here, but some of the stuff posted is ridiculous. The fact is he did spend quite a lot of money, but what people seem to forget that he only spent an amount to try keep up with the big boys, not surpass them, which is what he did. To get to the next level we needed more investment. City have shown us this year the investment needed. We could talk all night about the individual signings and let people be as selective as they wish but the fact of the matter is as a whole his signings improved us greatly and brought us to the brink of Champions League football.
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jonzy85
first team
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1819
It won't happen, but it is a yes for me. Dream world stuff really.
But,
I'm amazed that everyone still holds MON 100% to blame for his departure and Randy 0%. We dont know the details behind his decision, but what we do know now is that he took the club to arbitration for unfair dismissal and was awarded a sum of money. The matter wouldnt have got to that stage if he didny have a case, which means that Randy/the board did something which he (and an arbitrator) felt he could not continue. We can only speculate what that was, most likely transfer money. For the record, I think he was wrong to walk out, he should have stayed one more year. I just dont get the vitriol levied at him, when Randy gets off scot free in most fans eyes.
There will never be agreement about his time here, but some of the stuff posted is ridiculous. The fact is he did spend quite a lot of money, but what people seem to forget that he only spent an amount to try keep up with the big boys, not surpass them, which is what he did. To get to the next level we needed more investment. City have shown us this year the investment needed. We could talk all night about the individual signings and let people be as selective as they wish but the fact of the matter is as a whole his signings improved us greatly and brought us to the brink of Champions League football.
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The above is why i just like reading H&V; Two very rational and objective posts that not many can argue with.
And in addition i'd add that as said above the details of MON leaving still aint really known as he has kept silent so most of the tirade against him does seem based on just speculation without anyone really knowing the true facts.
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I agree they were good signings Holtenderinthesky, but my point is that GV claimed MoN should be considered as manager again partly because of his signings. Milner was an obvious one we would all have made after his loan spell. So that really leaves only AY as talent spotted and it was obvious he had something at Watford, fair play it was us who stumped up the cash.
But the amount we spunked on fees and wages under MoN far outweighs the profit we will make on those 2, or even 3 if we sell Downing.
(Milner was an obvious one we would all have made after his loan spell. So that really leaves only AY as talent spotted and it was obvious he had something at Watford, fair play it was us who stumped up the cash.)
It was so abvious that other scouts/pundits who may have been watching at the time didnt stick their neck out to sign him. Again the facts are that MON also saw the potential (as with AY) and signed him up before any other club manager. And in the case of AY, remember when the 9 mill transfer fee was mention some on here (inc myself) questioned RL/MON paying such a high fee at the time. Guess who have now been proven to be right?
So we're agreed then, Milner needed no scouting as he'd already spent a year at the Villa, AY was an obvious talent and thanks to RL we had the money to pay for them. And as i've said, their profit will help recoup some of the money we lost on Sidwell, Davis, Harewood etc.
Or you can choose to ignore the millions we lost on dud signings and pretend their profit paid for Bent. You may prefer to look only at his 2 or 3 signings that we'd make a profit on, I prefer to look at the bigger picture.
Id prefer to look at the FULL picture that being; consistent results that got the club into the europe and got players doing so well that they got into the international reckoning & club getting to wembley for the first time in ages.
And name a manager who has a 100% record of successful signings?
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Milner is the only player MON signed who you can say we made a massive profit on. But then if DOL had the money we'd have probably have signed him earlier for half what we paid. Of the rest, Downing looks the only other one. Young, we'll be lucky to make 5m on him. Looking at our squad minus them 3, there's no-one bought in by MON who's a major asset.. Overall if you work out how much Cahill is worth now, then the whole MON period was a massive waste of resources, with nothing much to show a year later than old men, duds, Houllier's buys and our promising youth squad
GN; if anybody on here says they're in complete agreement with this, i'll be absolutely jaw droppingly staggerred and pass me the earwax.
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Maybe. We've signed the striker he never would, and he maybe able to build a decent team now as a result!
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The above is why i just like reading H&V; Two very rational and objective posts that not many can argue with.
And in addition i'd add that as said above the details of MON leaving still aint really known as he has kept silent so most of the tirade against him does seem based on just speculation without anyone really knowing the true facts.
Rational and objective because it's your point of view that is being put forward?
And one final thing on this, yes, nobody knows the full goings on from last summer, but you can play the percentages. On the one hand, you've got a chairman who has acted honourably the whole way throughout his tenure who has then suddenly turned into some sort of evil genius, making it impossible for MON to carry on. Or you've got a manager who left a club in almost the exact same circumstances, although perhaps even worse, considering he left the morning of a game. He has previous in leaving a club at a time designed to cause the maximum disruption, so I know where my money is. Basically, the way he left is unacceptable, barring Randy having tried it on with his wife or continuously administering happy slaps to him.
Also, I don't give any credence to the possibility of some major change in circumstances the week before the start of the season, the guys demeanour throughout the summer looked like a man that didn't care. Even the likes of bannan said as much.
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Okay here a poll as requested.
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more chance of bringing Ron Saunders back than MON,
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30 years later and with the benefit of hindsight (his leading Blose and Olbyun to relegation) Saunders tenure was our golden age. Now, he is my favourite all time Villa Manager.
However, between 1982-1985 he really was our Judus. His betrayal was actually far worse than MON's - not just because he walked out but beacuse of where he ended up and when.
Imagaine if H&V had a website in February 1982 - a 300 pager if ever there was one.
Controversial , but it does put MON departure into some historical perspective.
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30 years later and with the benefit of hindsight (his leading Blose and Olbyun to relegation) Saunders tenure was our golden age. Now, he is my favourite all time Villa Manager.
However, between 1982-1985 he really was our Judus. His betrayal was actually far worse than MON's - not just because he walked out but beacuse of where he ended up and when.
Imagaine if H&V had a website in February 1982 - a 300 pager if ever there was one.
Controversial , but it does put MON departure into some historical perspective.
No it doesn't. From 30 years distance Ron Saunders is our greatest and most successful manager. Are you not capable of understanding that one simple point?
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30 years later and with the benefit of hindsight (his leading Blose and Olbyun to relegation) Saunders tenure was our golden age. Now, he is my favourite all time Villa Manager.
However, between 1982-1985 he really was our Judus. His betrayal was actually far worse than MON's - not just because he walked out but beacuse of where he ended up and when.
Imagaine if H&V had a website in February 1982 - a 300 pager if ever there was one.
Controversial , but it does put MON departure into some historical perspective.
No it doesn't. From 30 years distance Ron Saunders is our greatest and most successful manager. Are you not capable of understanding that one simple point?
Your just looking at the silverware won where the point mentioned is to do with a manager leaving the club and the historical referece to RS departure. It not about whether who was the greatest manager.
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30 years later and with the benefit of hindsight (his leading Blose and Olbyun to relegation) Saunders tenure was our golden age. Now, he is my favourite all time Villa Manager.
However, between 1982-1985 he really was our Judus. His betrayal was actually far worse than MON's - not just because he walked out but beacuse of where he ended up and when.
Imagaine if H&V had a website in February 1982 - a 300 pager if ever there was one.
Controversial , but it does put MON departure into some historical perspective.
No it doesn't. From 30 years distance Ron Saunders is our greatest and most successful manager. Are you not capable of understanding that one simple point?
Your just looking at the silverware won where the point mentioned is to do with a manager leaving the club and the aftermath.
Yes, I do admit that I believe winning trophies is a pretty important part of how a manager is perceived.
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Your just looking at the silverware won where the point mentioned is to do with a manager leaving the club and the historical referece to RS departure. It not about whether who was the greatest manager.
The perception of Saunders' departure and legacy is bound to be influenced by his success, and the ability of the squad when he left. Likewise MON's legacy will be judged on his time here, as well as the state of the squad when he left. Anyone who thinks that MON will be thought of in the same light as him in 30 years time is breathtakingly deluded.
I've been having difficulty trying to articulate my feelings on MON. Basically, I think he's an unsustainably "successful" manager, if that makes sense. By that I mean that he will be relatively successful while he's at the club, but once he leaves any manager that takes over from him will have difficulty in achieving the same level of results. Now that might be seen as something in his favour by some (and could well be true had the squad not consisted mostly of his own purchases), but I believe that truly great managers should be judged on their legacy as well as the success achieved during their tenure.
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Your just looking at the silverware won
It is a rather important aspect to the job. How can you compare the two? I weren't around at the time. But I've been told by everyone around at the time and read enough to see that there is no similarities
Am I right in the sense that if no one agree's with you there wrong?
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If I had been a season ticket holder for MON's last two seasons I certainly wouldn't have been sad to see him go. We had some good times under him but largely flattered to deceive and there was always a sense of waiting to be found out once teams copped on to our ability at set-pieces and counter attacking but lack od quality in open play.
The night that crystallised MON's reign for me when I realised how, if at all, we were going to be successful under him was on Heskey's debut at Pompey when we won 1-0 but the last half an hour in that game was quite embarassing. Backs to the wall, hoof and hope, defending a lead instead of passing patiently and controlling the game and waiting to pick our moment to try and get an insurance goal. That just wasn't the MON way. Relief at the end of the game, the players absoloutely spent, O'Neill no doubt delighted with a ''fine performance''.
I certainly wouldn't have sacked him after his last season but the manner in which he left, on the eve of a season, (even if we don't know the circumstances it's clear that O'Neill has always had a stubborn trait in his personality whereas Lerner's record up to that point was of being the perfect employer...there must have been some volte face for O'Neill to have been wronged), means I struggle to have respect for him anymore. Couple that with the arse-licking that goes on towards him in the press and I'd rather just forget about him.
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So go on. A straight choice of either MON or McLeish, no one else, who would you choose to be in the Villa Park dugout next season?
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So go on. A straight choice of either MON or McLeish, no one else, who would you choose to be in the Villa Park dugout next season?
It's like choosing between drowning or burning to death. Fuck em both.
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So go on. A straight choice of either MON or McLeish, no one else, who would you choose to be in the Villa Park dugout next season?
When they went head to head with Rangers and Celtic, who came out on top?
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Your just looking at the silverware won
It is a rather important aspect to the job. How can you compare the two? I weren't around at the time. But I've been told by everyone around at the time and read enough to see that there is no similarities
Am I right in the sense that if no one agree's with you there wrong?
Nope, just means we're not yet in agreement.
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Your just looking at the silverware won where the point mentioned is to do with a manager leaving the club and the historical referece to RS departure. It not about whether who was the greatest manager.
Okay, so Saunders left a legacy where a rookie manager won the European Cup and O'Neill left a legacy where an experienced manage who had previously won the European Cup could only struggle to mid-table.
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In answer to the thread title - NO
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The biggest fuck off no you could imagine.
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The biggest fuck off no you could imagine.
Would be my answer, too.
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Your just looking at the silverware won where the point mentioned is to do with a manager leaving the club and the historical referece to RS departure. It not about whether who was the greatest manager.
Okay, so Saunders left a legacy where a rookie manager won the European Cup and O'Neill left a legacy where an experienced manage who had previously won the European Cup could only struggle to mid-table.
Dave, pedant alert.
I am no Scouse historian but I am certain Ged never won the European Cup. Benitez won it in what I think was his first season.
Ged did OK at Liverpool, primarily in that 2001 season, but he never won the league or Old Big Ears. I would have liked him to remain in charge this summer as I think he could have surprised a few people with a full pre-season.
No to MON coming back for me. In my opinion he did a good job - three 6th place finishes, knowing we would give anybody a game and be hard to beat, our first final in a decade, etc - but coming back would be unpopular and pointless. Nobody out there excites me at the moment though, and there is no perfect candidate we're overlooking. It could be a strange summer in B6.
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Houllier had won the UEFA cup though hadn't he.
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Thanks for that, Mr Floppy. (winky)
McLeish is an upgrade on MON but that doesn't mean he's still not crap. Can we please move into the 21st century? Please!
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I'd rather stick my knob in an E-Coli infected bacon slicer than have O'Neill back.
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So go on. A straight choice of either MON or McLeish, no one else, who would you choose to be in the Villa Park dugout next season?
When they went head to head with Rangers and Celtic, who came out on top?
McLeish.
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Your just looking at the silverware won where the point mentioned is to do with a manager leaving the club and the historical referece to RS departure. It not about whether who was the greatest manager.
Okay, so Saunders left a legacy where a rookie manager won the European Cup and O'Neill left a legacy where an experienced manage who had previously won the European Cup could only struggle to mid-table.
Dave, pedant alert.
I am no Scouse historian but I am certain Ged never won the European Cup. Benitez won it in what I think was his first season.
Ged did OK at Liverpool, primarily in that 2001 season, but he never won the league or Old Big Ears. I would have liked him to remain in charge this summer as I think he could have surprised a few people with a full pre-season.
No to MON coming back for me. In my opinion he did a good job - three 6th place finishes, knowing we would give anybody a game and be hard to beat, our first final in a decade, etc - but coming back would be unpopular and pointless. Nobody out there excites me at the moment though, and there is no perfect candidate we're overlooking. It could be a strange summer in B6.
To parraphrase; - {In my opinion he did a good job - three 6th place finishes, knowing we would give anybody a game and be hard to beat, our first final in a decade, etc - but coming back would be unpopular and pointless. Nobody out there excites me at the moment though}.
AND add to that; restoring the clubs name and involment in europe. Being already familiar with most of the playing squad so the club can hit the premiership road running immediately (which is worth how many invaluable league points), and being (in the main ) judged by fans on behind the scenes circumstances that nobody really knows what went on, and a tribunial finding in his favour, and no one else being out there at the moment available with a managerial record equal to MON. Inspite of all this, you still wouldnt give him your support if he walked back through the VP doors?
The way are heading, it might just be LC winner Mcleish in the hot seat!!!
Funny ol game football.
Inspite of all this looks like from the poll, a good percentage of fans would back him and the club if he did come back. But I suppose it all about opinion.
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Not bloody likely.
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those 19 who voted yes are just the remnants of the MON happy clapper army. Fair play to them for attempting the near impossible job of rehabilitating his reputation, but frankly if we had a half decent manager in our sights by now, this thread wouldn't exist
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It may be true that the current situation creates a longing ofr times of managerial certainty, but lets cut the 'happy clapper' crap - people can have an opinion without needing to be labeled.
Personally I voted 'no' as there is too much water under the bridge now. A club works best when the fans, manager and board are all getting on and pulling in one direction, which could now never happen under him.
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what would you say if he was given a budget to spend (subject to the sale of Milner), chose to spend it on McGeady and was knocked back by the board on the basis that they didn't think it was the right player to sign?
Still no reason to leave 5 days before the season. If McGeady was his target, then surely MON would have informed the board at the start of pre-season, so by your version of events they waited until the very last minute to say no? Do you really believe that? And where has this version come from by the way?
My understanding of things is that there couldn't be any signings until some of the deadwood was moved on to free up wages, irrespective of the milner sale.
That version of events is a completely made up version without any facts or information to substantiate it, which is exactly the same level of fact and information being used by people who call him a c*** for leaving when he did.
All we know is that O'Neill and Lerner no longer shared a vision of how to move forward. On that basis it is easy to imagine a scenario whereby O'Neill's position as manager had become untenable.
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The General and others have more or less said it was MON who instigated his leaving, so not sharing a vision doesn't come into it. The guy threw his toys out of the pram and they cobbled together some statement about not sharing the same vision, because the alternative was to admit he'd left us totally unprepared for the new season with a brand new spanking 50k a week player who nobody wanted. Damage limitation, pure and simple.
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those 19 who voted yes are just the remnants of the MON happy clapper army. Fair play to them for attempting the near impossible job of rehabilitating his reputation, but frankly if we had a half decent manager in our sights by now, this thread wouldn't exist
I wouldn't take much notice of the poll Greg.
According to the McLeish thread, 46 people (so far) want him as Villa Manager.
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Looking at who is out there and the names we have been linked with he is better than 90% of them. Yes I would take him back. It wont happen though
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I thought he would end up at forest this morning after they sacked billy Davies but McClaran has signed according to BBC
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what would you say if he was given a budget to spend (subject to the sale of Milner), chose to spend it on McGeady and was knocked back by the board on the basis that they didn't think it was the right player to sign?
Still no reason to leave 5 days before the season. If McGeady was his target, then surely MON would have informed the board at the start of pre-season, so by your version of events they waited until the very last minute to say no? Do you really believe that? And where has this version come from by the way?
My understanding of things is that there couldn't be any signings until some of the deadwood was moved on to free up wages, irrespective of the milner sale.
That version of events is a completely made up version without any facts or information to substantiate it, which is exactly the same level of fact and information being used by people who call him a c*** for leaving when he did.
All we know is that O'Neill and Lerner no longer shared a vision of how to move forward. On that basis it is easy to imagine a scenario whereby O'Neill's position as manager had become untenable.
Leaving when he did is exactly what makes him a ******.
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the man should not be allowed back into villa park even if he is managing the opposing side. c#nt of the highest order.
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The General and others have more or less said it was MON who instigated his leaving, so not sharing a vision doesn't come into it. The guy threw his toys out of the pram and they cobbled together some statement about not sharing the same vision, because the alternative was to admit he'd left us totally unprepared for the new season with a brand new spanking 50k a week player who nobody wanted. Damage limitation, pure and simple.
What does "more or less" mean? I think it means you have made up a version that fits with your preconceptions and have probably convinced yourself that your version of events are fact.
I don't think there is much doubt that O'Neill resigned, the question is whether it was because after four years he suddenly decided to throw his toys out of the pram or if something changed to make his position untenable. I don't know the answer to that question and neither do you.
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what would you say if he was given a budget to spend (subject to the sale of Milner), chose to spend it on McGeady and was knocked back by the board on the basis that they didn't think it was the right player to sign?
Still no reason to leave 5 days before the season. If McGeady was his target, then surely MON would have informed the board at the start of pre-season, so by your version of events they waited until the very last minute to say no? Do you really believe that? And where has this version come from by the way?
My understanding of things is that there couldn't be any signings until some of the deadwood was moved on to free up wages, irrespective of the milner sale.
That version of events is a completely made up version without any facts or information to substantiate it, which is exactly the same level of fact and information being used by people who call him a c*** for leaving when he did.
All we know is that O'Neill and Lerner no longer shared a vision of how to move forward. On that basis it is easy to imagine a scenario whereby O'Neill's position as manager had become untenable.
Leaving when he did is exactly what makes him a c***.
Who was the ****** when Saunders left?
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MON did reasonably well for Villa. Not as well as Brian Little, or BFR, or Graham Taylor (first time) but he did OK. Would David O'Leary have done as well as MON if he had been given the same resources? Who knows, but DOL did get Villa to 6th on a fraction of what MON needed.
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If Martin comes back I hope he pops into The Aston Social. I'd like a quiet word.
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easy answer - No thanks
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Your just looking at the silverware won where the point mentioned is to do with a manager leaving the club and the historical referece to RS departure. It not about whether who was the greatest manager.
Okay, so Saunders left a legacy where a rookie manager won the European Cup and O'Neill left a legacy where an experienced manage who had previously won the European Cup could only struggle to mid-table.
Dave, pedant alert.
I am no Scouse historian but I am certain Ged never won the European Cup. Benitez won it in what I think was his first season.
Ged did OK at Liverpool, primarily in that 2001 season, but he never won the league or Old Big Ears. I would have liked him to remain in charge this summer as I think he could have surprised a few people with a full pre-season.
No to MON coming back for me. In my opinion he did a good job - three 6th place finishes, knowing we would give anybody a game and be hard to beat, our first final in a decade, etc - but coming back would be unpopular and pointless. Nobody out there excites me at the moment though, and there is no perfect candidate we're overlooking. It could be a strange summer in B6.
To parraphrase; - {In my opinion he did a good job - three 6th place finishes, knowing we would give anybody a game and be hard to beat, our first final in a decade, etc - but coming back would be unpopular and pointless. Nobody out there excites me at the moment though}.
AND add to that; restoring the clubs name and involment in europe. Being already familiar with most of the playing squad so the club can hit the premiership road running immediately (which is worth how many invaluable league points), and being (in the main ) judged by fans on behind the scenes circumstances that nobody really knows what went on, and a tribunial finding in his favour, and no one else being out there at the moment available with a managerial record equal to MON. Inspite of all this, you still wouldnt give him your support if he walked back through the VP doors?
The way are heading, it might just be LC winner Mcleish in the hot seat!!!
Funny ol game football.
Inspite of all this looks like from the poll, a good percentage of fans would back him and the club if he did come back. But I suppose it all about opinion.
Mr Gaztonniller, you raise some great points, many of which I have raised myself at various points in the past 10 months.
However, I think there is simply too much anti MON sentiment at Villa Park for his return to even be considered seriously. I have still not heard an authoritative version of the events of last August to explain his departure, and thus refuse to throw vitriol at anybody. If more people on ths (generally intelligent and articulate) site would accept McLeish over MON then I think that tells you all you need to know about the reception he would receive if he were to be re-appointed. I can see no circumstances in which it would work.
Whoever comes in as manager will have my support - yes, including Alex McLeish - even if they don't inspire me. In fact I cannot think of a single manager we have been linked with who would inspire me.
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Whoever comes in as manager will have my support - yes, including Alex McLeish - even if they don't inspire me. In fact I cannot think of a single manager we have been linked with who would inspire me.
Who would be your ideal?
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Yes. Though his departure was disgraceful. If he did come back, I'd give him the benefit of time to get things turned around (not as much time as a new man, McCleish excluded, would warrant). Results would have to be decent from the start. But we'd be organised, hard working and tough to beat. For a start, that would be good. Perhaps when City need to sell a few players, we could get Milner back too.
He'd get mullered by many on here, and rightly, but if we're back competing in the top 6, then it could work.
Putting aside the animosity, of the names we're realistically linked with, I don't think a single one of them would do better than Martin O Neill. Sadly, because it means we've had our bright moment for this particular period in Footy history. Maybe when the economic restrictions kick in, then we'll have a shot at competing again, with the benefit of our academy. But we'll have to wait a few years yet.
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Whoever comes in as manager will have my support - yes, including Alex McLeish - even if they don't inspire me. In fact I cannot think of a single manager we have been linked with who would inspire me.
Who would be your ideal?
Unrealistically, somebody like Mourinho, Fergie, Wenger, Ancelloti.
Realistically and available, I have no ideal, but would accept Benitez, Hughes, Hughton.
Realistically and unavailable, I would have accepted McLaren, Jol, Hodgson, Coyle or Moyes.
This all seems so dull......
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Yes, and I'd get rid of Paul Faulkner.
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what would you say if he was given a budget to spend (subject to the sale of Milner), chose to spend it on McGeady and was knocked back by the board on the basis that they didn't think it was the right player to sign?
Still no reason to leave 5 days before the season. If McGeady was his target, then surely MON would have informed the board at the start of pre-season, so by your version of events they waited until the very last minute to say no? Do you really believe that? And where has this version come from by the way?
My understanding of things is that there couldn't be any signings until some of the deadwood was moved on to free up wages, irrespective of the milner sale.
That version of events is a completely made up version without any facts or information to substantiate it, which is exactly the same level of fact and information being used by people who call him a c*** for leaving when he did.
All we know is that O'Neill and Lerner no longer shared a vision of how to move forward. On that basis it is easy to imagine a scenario whereby O'Neill's position as manager had become untenable.
Leaving when he did is exactly what makes him a c***.
Who was the c*** when Saunders left?
Bendall. Shall we play 'spot the trophy' with O'Neill?
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The General and others have more or less said it was MON who instigated his leaving, so not sharing a vision doesn't come into it. The guy threw his toys out of the pram and they cobbled together some statement about not sharing the same vision, because the alternative was to admit he'd left us totally unprepared for the new season with a brand new spanking 50k a week player who nobody wanted. Damage limitation, pure and simple.
What does "more or less" mean? I think it means you have made up a version that fits with your preconceptions and have probably convinced yourself that your version of events are fact.
I don't think there is much doubt that O'Neill resigned, the question is whether it was because after four years he suddenly decided to throw his toys out of the pram or if something changed to make his position untenable. I don't know the answer to that question and neither do you.
well i think its common knowledge the General has said they weren't expecting their manager to walk out, more than once in fact
The bottom line is simple and its the question you and the other MON apologists won't answer
If Lerner was having major doubts about MON's managerial ability or transfer activity then why sanction something like 15-20m in transfer and salaries on Ireland? hell if both sides were having doubts about the partnership you still wouldn't allow that sort of spending.
As i said before i'm willing to believe that Lerner is some sort of evil git who forced MON to resign like you keep suggesting.
What i don't believe is he's some fuckwit who will waste that sort of money if he thinks his manager is about to walk out or he has doubts about him.
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...
Leaving when he did is exactly what makes him a c***.
Who was the c*** when Saunders left?
Bendall. Shall we play 'spot the trophy' with O'Neill?
So it's not all about timing then. A manager might choose to leave at an unfortunate time because of the actions of his boss/CEO.
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...
Leaving when he did is exactly what makes him a c***.
Who was the c*** when Saunders left?
Bendall. Shall we play 'spot the trophy' with O'Neill?
So it's not all about timing then. A manager might choose to leave at an unfortunate time because of the actions of his boss/CEO.
Only you could compare Ron Bendall, who died before he could be convicted of defrauding the club, to Randy Lerner.
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I remember when Saunders was enemy number one - he was the original clown in the 'There's a Circus in the Town' song. I hated him for years and in fact one of my suprises when H&V hit the Internet was how people were now talking about him so positively. Remember he left in the middle of the season and if it hadn't been for the steadying influence of Barton could have cost us our greatest triumph we've ever had (and probably ever will have). Time is a great healer and although MON will never have the legend reputation of Saunders - for obvious reasons - over time people will see him as one of our better managers. At the moment its like people are going through a break up and feel better if they can hate O'Neill.
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The General and others have more or less said it was MON who instigated his leaving, so not sharing a vision doesn't come into it. The guy threw his toys out of the pram and they cobbled together some statement about not sharing the same vision, because the alternative was to admit he'd left us totally unprepared for the new season with a brand new spanking 50k a week player who nobody wanted. Damage limitation, pure and simple.
What does "more or less" mean? I think it means you have made up a version that fits with your preconceptions and have probably convinced yourself that your version of events are fact.
I don't think there is much doubt that O'Neill resigned, the question is whether it was because after four years he suddenly decided to throw his toys out of the pram or if something changed to make his position untenable. I don't know the answer to that question and neither do you.
well i think its common knowledge the General has said they weren't expecting their manager to walk out, more than once in fact
The bottom line is simple and its the question you and the other MON apologists won't answer
If Lerner was having major doubts about MON's managerial ability or transfer activity then why sanction something like 15-20m in transfer and salaries on Ireland? hell if both sides were having doubts about the partnership you still wouldn't allow that sort of spending.
As i said before i'm willing to believe that Lerner is some sort of evil git who forced MON to resign like you keep suggesting.
What i don't believe is he's some fuckwit who will waste that sort of money if he thinks his manager is about to walk out or he has doubts about him.
I don't think it helps that you can only imagine this in terms of Lerner being a fuckwit or an evil git.
It may be as simple as there was a change of policy or an important decision made that O'Neill couldn't live with.
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At the moment its like people are going through a break up and feel better if they can hate O'Neill.
That analogy might work were it not for the fact that a number of those that have given him pelters for the way he left were also the most vocal critics during his tenure at the club. They're not sad he's gone, but they're justifiably angry with the way he's left.
And, again, he's got previous in doing the same to Norwich. I'd love to know how a disagreement with his chairman over a signing could lead to a justifiable resignation the morning of a game. If he's done it once, he could have easily done it again had he not gotten his own way.
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...
Leaving when he did is exactly what makes him a c***.
Who was the c*** when Saunders left?
Bendall. Shall we play 'spot the trophy' with O'Neill?
So it's not all about timing then. A manager might choose to leave at an unfortunate time because of the actions of his boss/CEO.
Only you could compare Ron Bendall, who died before he could be convicted of defrauding the club, to Randy Lerner.
I'm not so witless as to believe that only men of bad character make poor decisions.
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Your just looking at the silverware won where the point mentioned is to do with a manager leaving the club and the historical referece to RS departure. It not about whether who was the greatest manager.
Okay, so Saunders left a legacy where a rookie manager won the European Cup and O'Neill left a legacy where an experienced manage who had previously won the European Cup could only struggle to mid-table.
Dave, pedant alert.
I am no Scouse historian but I am certain Ged never won the European Cup. Benitez won it in what I think was his first season.
Ged did OK at Liverpool, primarily in that 2001 season, but he never won the league or Old Big Ears. I would have liked him to remain in charge this summer as I think he could have surprised a few people with a full pre-season.
No to MON coming back for me. In my opinion he did a good job - three 6th place finishes, knowing we would give anybody a game and be hard to beat, our first final in a decade, etc - but coming back would be unpopular and pointless. Nobody out there excites me at the moment though, and there is no perfect candidate we're overlooking. It could be a strange summer in B6.
To parraphrase; - {In my opinion he did a good job - three 6th place finishes, knowing we would give anybody a game and be hard to beat, our first final in a decade, etc - but coming back would be unpopular and pointless. Nobody out there excites me at the moment though}.
AND add to that; restoring the clubs name and involment in europe. Being already familiar with most of the playing squad so the club can hit the premiership road running immediately (which is worth how many invaluable league points), and being (in the main ) judged by fans on behind the scenes circumstances that nobody really knows what went on, and a tribunial finding in his favour, and no one else being out there at the moment available with a managerial record equal to MON. Inspite of all this, you still wouldnt give him your support if he walked back through the VP doors?
The way are heading, it might just be LC winner Mcleish in the hot seat!!!
Funny ol game football.
Inspite of all this looks like from the poll, a good percentage of fans would back him and the club if he did come back. But I suppose it all about opinion.
Mr Gaztonniller, you raise some great points, many of which I have raised myself at various points in the past 10 months.
However, I think there is simply too much anti MON sentiment at Villa Park for his return to even be considered seriously. I have still not heard an authoritative version of the events of last August to explain his departure, and thus refuse to throw vitriol at anybody. If more people on ths (generally intelligent and articulate) site would accept McLeish over MON then I think that tells you all you need to know about the reception he would receive if he were to be re-appointed. I can see no circumstances in which it would work.
Whoever comes in as manager will have my support - yes, including Alex McLeish - even if they don't inspire me. In fact I cannot think of a single manager we have been linked with who would inspire me.
Not for the first time on this issue, Pat Mac has precisely summed up my position on the matter.
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The General and others have more or less said it was MON who instigated his leaving, so not sharing a vision doesn't come into it. The guy threw his toys out of the pram and they cobbled together some statement about not sharing the same vision, because the alternative was to admit he'd left us totally unprepared for the new season with a brand new spanking 50k a week player who nobody wanted. Damage limitation, pure and simple.
What does "more or less" mean? I think it means you have made up a version that fits with your preconceptions and have probably convinced yourself that your version of events are fact.
I don't think there is much doubt that O'Neill resigned, the question is whether it was because after four years he suddenly decided to throw his toys out of the pram or if something changed to make his position untenable. I don't know the answer to that question and neither do you.
well i think its common knowledge the General has said they weren't expecting their manager to walk out, more than once in fact
The bottom line is simple and its the question you and the other MON apologists won't answer
If Lerner was having major doubts about MON's managerial ability or transfer activity then why sanction something like 15-20m in transfer and salaries on Ireland? hell if both sides were having doubts about the partnership you still wouldn't allow that sort of spending.
As i said before i'm willing to believe that Lerner is some sort of evil git who forced MON to resign like you keep suggesting.
What i don't believe is he's some fuckwit who will waste that sort of money if he thinks his manager is about to walk out or he has doubts about him.
I don't think it helps that you can only imagine this in terms of Lerner being a fuckwit or an evil git.
It may be as simple as there was a change of policy or an important decision made that O'Neill couldn't live with.
Or more likely he came in and demanded something the board couldn't live with? We know he's got form for this is the past, we know he has an ego so big it has its own gravity and we know he's sensitive to criticism to the point he sues websites who print letters from fans he doesn't like. On the other hand you have a guy who's got a reputation for being a thoroughly decent man and to my knowledge hasn't behaved badly since he arrived.
Occams razor init.
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Or more likely he came in and demanded something the board couldn't live with? We know he's got form for this is the past,
On more than one occasion at Celtic he let his feeling known to the press, namely that he would consider leaving unless he was given what he wanted.
Archie MacPherson highlights one example in his 'Flower of Scotland' book.
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Aye. If he was keen to replicate 'Ol Big Ead's approach to football (shame that never extended to style of play) he'd have learned to have distain for those directly above him.
There were various threats to leave Celtic and Leicester at different times and I wonder how many times he tried it on at the Villa. It's not a completely unthinkable scenario that when his stock was high with us in the past we'd do whatever we could to persuade him to stay. But last summer, if he tried the same routine the board might have called his bluff and said 'OK, we accept your resignation.'
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Aye. If he was keen to replicate 'Ol Big Ead's approach to football (shame that never extended to style of play) he'd have learned to have distain for those directly above him.
There were various threats to leave Celtic and Leicester at different times and I wonder how many times he tried it on at the Villa. It's not a completely unthinkable scenario that when his stock was high with us in the past we'd do whatever we could to persuade him to stay. But last summer, if he tried the same routine the board might have called his bluff and said 'OK, we accept your resignation.'
Also Kevin, he ran the footballing side of it from top to bottom, he knew full well that leaving would drop the board in the shit, i'm betting he tried it on a few times and the board backed down.
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Look mate, we only get screwed over once, we`d be mad to even consider him, it would only be a matter of time.