Wake me up when it's over

[dave.woodhall]

This is all getting a bit ridiculous.

[Ducksworthy]

I find all of this quite an odd and difficult thing to read through. There is clearly a genocide going on in Gaza and there is absolutely no question in my mind that MTA fans are violent hooligans that shouldn’t be allowed near Villa Park based on past behaviour.

I equally don’t think, based on his past employment or otherwise, that Eliot has to answer for the Israeli state and its actions. I know that isn’t people’s ACTUAL expectation but it has felt like it at times. Coming onto a site and slagging off most people, including Dave W who I think is generally quite level headed and lets most things around here run their course, seems stupid, but then I suppose trying to parse my understanding of things onto a guttural hatred I couldn’t understand leaves me compromised and I acknowledge I don’t understand antisemitism like a Jew would.

Indeed, some of the comments have - to my mind - veered into antisemitic tropes but that isn’t to say everyone’s have and actually there are some legitimate questions, clumsily done, that might be worth answering but I don’t see why it is Eliot’s job to do so.

I reckon on balance Eliot’s remarks aren’t brilliant and quite antagonistic but going strictly on MTA attending, he has agreed. The rest is a wider issue that I feel he and I won’t ever agree but I don’t expect him to have to answer for it.

[Dave]

I reckon on balance Eliot’s remarks aren’t brilliant and quite antagonistic but going strictly on MTA attending, he has agreed. The rest is a wider issue that I feel he and I won’t ever agree but I don’t expect him to have to answer for it.

But even that is on a point that I think most disagree with - he thinks that they shouldn't attend because the horrible Muslims will attack the defenceless Maccabi supporters so they shouldn't come for their own safety.

And rather ludicrously that Maccabi fans rampaging through Amsterdam is evidence of this.

[Percy McCarthy]

In the spirit of Ducksworthy’s post, I apologise to EP if I’ve caused offence or made him feel uncomfortable or unwelcome because of his religion. I genuinely couldn’t care less what religion he is. I disagree with Israeli foreign policy and that’s all. I support the ban on MTA fans because lots of them are racist thugs and will attract the support of our homegrown racist thugs, and 1) my kids aren’t white, and 2) visiting Aston all my life and working there for nearly half of it has made me quite fond of the local community and concerned for their safety.

I was leaving the thread alone until Chemical Adsy, outed as a racist apologist on here years ago, had the audacity to come on and accuse people of a form of bigotry.

[pauliewalnuts]

God, this is the worst H&V thread ever.

[Brazilian Villain]

God, this is the worst H&V thread ever.

but the most aptly named.

[Perthvillan]

Well said Dave.
Villa in a no win situation and as you say the sooner this whole sorry episode is over the better.

[Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle]

God, this is the worst H&V thread ever.

It's no African Car Reverser, that's for sure.

[Lucky Eddie]

God, this is the worst H&V thread ever.

but the most aptly named.

Hold your beer until MON's back here in the away dug out.

[Monty]

In the spirit of Ducksworthy’s post, I apologise to EP if I’ve caused offence or made him feel uncomfortable or unwelcome because of his religion. I genuinely couldn’t care less what religion he is. I disagree with Israeli foreign policy and that’s all. I support the ban on MTA fans because lots of them are racist thugs and will attract the support of our homegrown racist thugs, and 1) my kids aren’t white, and 2) visiting Aston all my life and working there for nearly half of it has made me quite fond of the local community and concerned for their safety.

I was leaving the thread alone until Chemical Adsy, outed as a racist apologist on here years ago, had the audacity to come on and accuse people of a form of bigotry.

Yeah, I think many things were said in the heat of the moment that are best left regretted, myself included. No need to get in the dredgers - we all know each other pretty much, we know we're not racists (though some of us are quite mental), and we can just try to apply a bit more common sense and calmness next time.

[Legion]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze83gw4w2xo

[Chap]

Sigh, 😔

[eliotpollak]

So I take you are going with it is neccessay to protect the Jews from locals, hence the shame, and not it is neccesary to protect the locals from the same thing that MTA fans did in Greece and Amsterdam?

Yes because a) that’s what the police statement said and b) if the game was in London or Norwich or Plymouth, there wouldn’t be a problem, which implies the locals are the issues.

Can you show me a citation that it would not be a problem in London, Norwich or Plymouth? Also, you are ok with MTA fans attacking Muslims in other cities?

No, because it’s what’s called a hypothetical. I believe it to be true however. Israeli clubs have played in Stoke, Manchester, London before with no problems.
And no, bc I’m not in favour of anyone being attacked.

So because matches happened in 2011, 2002 and I'm assuming a similar time frame for the London matches, you believe a match taking place today would not have banned away supporters? Especially ones who have a small recent history of attacking locals of certain persuasions. Didn''t the national Police organisation who supposedly informed the HO it was going to be an away fans ban state they totally stood by the decision?

I don’t think the MP for Perry Bar was a big Zionist back then either, so I think it’s a fair comparison.
I don’t have any proof of attacking locals of any persuasions. Feel free to send. I have the official Dutch police report on my computer which I was sent bc I knew I’d get asked about it in media. Again, your sources no doubt far better than the Official. Police. Report.
I don’t know about national police but don’t see the relevance. They’re being asked about Aston, not the rest of the country.

As above...the police report was fundamentally untrue. Everyone who was actually involved knew this information.
It doesn't particularly bother me as I dont live in Birmingham, but if I did, I'd be intrigued why the police felt the need to make things up so as to ban Jews entering the city.

[cdbearsfan]

They didn't ban Jews from entering the city. Stop being silly.

[Percy McCarthy]

So I take you are going with it is neccessay to protect the Jews from locals, hence the shame, and not it is neccesary to protect the locals from the same thing that MTA fans did in Greece and Amsterdam?

Yes because a) that’s what the police statement said and b) if the game was in London or Norwich or Plymouth, there wouldn’t be a problem, which implies the locals are the issues.

Can you show me a citation that it would not be a problem in London, Norwich or Plymouth? Also, you are ok with MTA fans attacking Muslims in other cities?

No, because it’s what’s called a hypothetical. I believe it to be true however. Israeli clubs have played in Stoke, Manchester, London before with no problems.
And no, bc I’m not in favour of anyone being attacked.

So because matches happened in 2011, 2002 and I'm assuming a similar time frame for the London matches, you believe a match taking place today would not have banned away supporters? Especially ones who have a small recent history of attacking locals of certain persuasions. Didn''t the national Police organisation who supposedly informed the HO it was going to be an away fans ban state they totally stood by the decision?

Again, your sources no doubt far better than the Official. Police. Report.

As above...the police report was fundamentally untrue.

You seemed quite fond of it before.

Anyway, it didn’t go off, no-one got beaten to a pulp by hundreds of racist nutters like in Athens, and decent people didn’t have to put up with singalonga-genocide. Good.