Wake me up when it's over

[Stu]

I really don’t think bans should be handed out here. Just my opinion however quite a few posts on here have dipped into antisemitic tropes and it’s making me deeply uncomfortable. I’m not saying I agree with Eliot’s standpoint here but that’s just an opinion for me and not an existential issue like it is for him. Wouldn’t it be better to just stop the personal stuff and carry on?

[cdbearsfan]

"Israeli blood money" is the only one that comes worse, IMO. I'd say Elliot's genocide-denial is a thousand times worse than that. If you're acting like David Irving, you're probably a twat.

[Drummond]

It you're from a minority group it doesn't mean that everything that goes against you is because you're from a minority group.

If you're a twat then you're a twat regardless of anything else.

If your nation, in response to an atrocity against it, becomes worse than the perpetrators, by becoming even more atrocious, behaving like they've done nothing wrong and engaging in whataboutery, they will be judged poorly by most other people.

If a football club's fans behave in that way, act like they have impunity, and show no remorse, then they forego their right to attend a match in another country, whose fans just want to watch a game of football, in a residential area where there is a lot of support for the victims of aforementioned state atrocity (UN defined genocide no less).

It's no surprise that this has come to pass.

When Stephen Yaxley Lennon is on your side you should know you're on the wrong side.

I'm pleased there's a Jewish Villa Supporters group, as I would be if there were a Punjabi one, a Christian one, a Norwegian one, an LGBTQ one z and a Yorkshire one. It shows our diversity, it shows  that sport should have no boundaries. The problems come when people try to use their grouping against others, to define themselves as better, worse or as victims.

‘My nation’ as you say is the UK. Same as yours.

‘The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism includes the accusation that Jewish citizens are more loyal to Israel than to their own nations. This is a classic antisemitic trope, also called the "dual loyalty" charge, which falsely claims Jews have conflicting loyalties and are inherently disloyal to the countries they live in.’

But yes, you’re definitely the person to post about anti-semitism.

Im a big believer in freedom of speech and everyone’s right to say anything to anyone as long as it’s not inciting violence. But genuinely, have some humility - most of these posts show a woeful ignorance of anti-semitism, it’s causes, and its history. So maybe take an opportunity to learn something, or just keep quiet. Not everyone needs your hot take on a thousands year old hatred.

'Your nation ' wasn't directed at you specifically, but anyone and everyone. I'd have thought that perhaps you'd realise that, however, then again because you're feeling attacked you've personalised it.

I meant nationals of any country. Clearly in this case it's the Israeli government not Jews that are committing genocide. Right?

Do you defend that? Or as a British national do you condemn it? Because either way there are implications. I'm amazed that the state of Israel is getting as much support for it's actions as it seems to be given they're committing genocide.

You're clearly not as clever as you think you are, perhaps humility should be practised by you.

[PeterWithesShin]

He was press secretary for the Israeli embassy, of course he defends it.

[SamTheMouse]

I really don’t think bans should be handed out here. Just my opinion however quite a few posts on here have dipped into antisemitic tropes and it’s making me deeply uncomfortable. I’m not saying I agree with Eliot’s standpoint here but that’s just an opinion for me and not an existential issue like it is for him. Wouldn’t it be better to just stop the personal stuff and carry on?

Agreed. Feels like we're edging towards some very unpleasant sentiments becoming gradually less taboo. Like on Twitter.

[dave.woodhall]

I really don’t think bans should be handed out here. Just my opinion however quite a few posts on here have dipped into antisemitic tropes and it’s making me deeply uncomfortable. I’m not saying I agree with Eliot’s standpoint here but that’s just an opinion for me and not an existential issue like it is for him. Wouldn’t it be better to just stop the personal stuff and carry on?

Agreed. Feels like we're edging towards some very unpleasant sentiments becoming gradually less taboo. Like on Twitter.

I don't think that's happening on here but I'm clearly no expert.

[eliotpollak]

This has become very meta in the sense that a thread to tell me that the concern about Jewish Villans is not antisemitic, and that everyone here is very aware of and against anti-semitism, has just descended into post after post that is clearly anti-Semitic.
The fact that the moderators can’t see it (and I thank the other posters who have pointed it out), helps make my point better than anything I could say at this point.
 

[PeterWithesShin]

Always everyone else and your stock reply is they're all anti-semetic. That is why you're getting so much shit but you are so entrenched in that view that you lack even the slightest self awarness to stop and think that how you speak to others will have an effect on how they reply.

[cdbearsfan]

Appreciate we live in an age where ignorance of a topic is no barrier to writing authoritatively about it.

This was how he signed off literally his first post on the topic. But he's an innocent victim and everyone else is being nasty for no reason.

[PeterWithesShin]

Appreciate we live in an age where ignorance of a topic is no barrier to writing authoritatively about it.

Maybe if you didn't write shit like this in your first post so many people wouldn't think you're a twat. But you did, so they do.

In what way is it ‘shit’? Thought it was both articulate and accurate.

I already pointed that out, this is what I mean about zero self awareness,

[Stu]

I really don’t think bans should be handed out here. Just my opinion however quite a few posts on here have dipped into antisemitic tropes and it’s making me deeply uncomfortable. I’m not saying I agree with Eliot’s standpoint here but that’s just an opinion for me and not an existential issue like it is for him. Wouldn’t it be better to just stop the personal stuff and carry on?

Agreed. Feels like we're edging towards some very unpleasant sentiments becoming gradually less taboo. Like on Twitter.

I shitcanned Twitter over a year ago and I would encourage everyone to do the same. If others are on Twitter, and I don’t know if he still posts on there, but the account @supergutman, Marlon Solomon, is a good account to have a look at as he provided links and explanations to what modern antisemitism looks like. I think he was or is a member of the Labour Party but I don’t know.

Myself, as a member of the Labour Party before, during and after the Corbyn years it was a harrowing read but was essential during that time.

[eliotpollak]

Appreciate we live in an age where ignorance of a topic is no barrier to writing authoritatively about it.

This was how he signed off literally his first post on the topic. But he's an innocent victim and everyone else is being nasty for no reason.

I’m not a victim. I’m just speaking authoritatively about several things I have more knowledge of than (I suspect) anyone else on this forum.
Jewish Villans
The MTA fan ban
Anti-semitism
I wouldn’t speak authoritatively on any other issue, especially one as charged as racism, because I accept other people would know much more. So I am quite self-aware in that sense. Perhaps more so than others here

[eliotpollak]

I really don’t think bans should be handed out here. Just my opinion however quite a few posts on here have dipped into antisemitic tropes and it’s making me deeply uncomfortable. I’m not saying I agree with Eliot’s standpoint here but that’s just an opinion for me and not an existential issue like it is for him. Wouldn’t it be better to just stop the personal stuff and carry on?

Agreed. Feels like we're edging towards some very unpleasant sentiments becoming gradually less taboo. Like on Twitter.

I shitcanned Twitter over a year ago and I would encourage everyone to do the same. If others are on Twitter, and I don’t know if he still posts on there, but the account @supergutman, Marlon Solomon, is a good account to have a look at as he provided links and explanations to what modern antisemitism looks like. I think he was or is a member of the Labour Party but I don’t know.

Myself, as a member of the Labour Party before, during and after the Corbyn years it was a harrowing read but was essential during that time.

I would agree with all of that.

[markeeeebeeee2005]

You’re the absolute expert in genocide denial too. You can take the man out of the embassy…

[Olneythelonely]

“Self-awareness?! You’re accusing me of lacking self-awareness?! I wrote the bloody book on self-awareness!”