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Author Topic: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)  (Read 47734 times)

Online Brazilian Villain

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #660 on: Today at 10:44:52 AM »
Athletic article on the Elliott situation. https://archive.ph/ZLHAa

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #661 on: Today at 12:10:58 PM »
Nothing particularly new, but helpful in outlining the position. If he’s here until the end of the season there’s no way the 10 games won’t be triggered.

Online john2710

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #662 on: Today at 12:18:08 PM »
We're not spending £35m on someone who can't even make the bench.

Online brontebilly

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #663 on: Today at 01:42:11 PM »
Quote
RM- McGinn, Guessand, Rogers or Sancho at a push
LM - Buendia, Rogers, Sancho
10 - Rogers, Buendia, Barkley, Tielemans

Hard to pick him or many other established premier league players over that mix

Unless injured Rogers will play every game so that narrows the odds even more for just 2 places, McGinn you assume the same will play so now it is one from the rest

Tough but great position to be in

Add Malen as an option too.  It’s a long list and understandable why we don’t sleepwalk into spending another £35m.


It is a long list, but it’s likely to shorten in the next year or two. 

There are doubts over Sancho and Guessand.
Barkley is injury prone.
Is Buendia going through a purple patch rather than a permanent upturn?
Rogers might have to be sacrificed on the alter of FFP

There’s only McGinn who you’d put money in being in the team this time next year and he can’t go on forever.

If Emery can turn Sancho and/or Guessand into top tier PL footballers it might well one of his biggest achievements. Turned around Tielemans but his ability was never really in question and had proved it for Leicester. Sancho has lots of ability and Guessand has heart but don't see either of them making the grade here

That's where I think Elliot could and should have been a better option for us. Don't see us holding onto Rogers post the WC if his form continues. Elliot would be a hedge against that happening too.

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #664 on: Today at 02:09:18 PM »
We're not spending £35m on someone who can't even make the bench.

Well I think that’s it, if he’s stays until the end of the season I just can’t see anyway he’s not hitting the 10 appearances.

Online Mellin

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #665 on: Today at 03:12:29 PM »
I reckon he'll play 9. Without the clause I think he'd play 20. We're not paying 35m for 11 appearances.

Online Crown Hill

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #666 on: Today at 03:14:43 PM »
A lot depends on Liverpool and whether they want his wages off the books for the whole season.

Offline LeeB

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #667 on: Today at 03:50:02 PM »
A lot depends on Liverpool and whether they want his wages off the books for the whole season.

He can't go anywhere else so it looks like he's stuck here, unless they have an injury crisis or something.

Offline Mister E

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #668 on: Today at 04:19:15 PM »
That's where I think Elliot could and should have been a better option for us. Don't see us holding onto Rogers post the WC if his form continues. Elliot would be a hedge against that happening too.
I agree with this. I don't get how Guessand is keeping Elliott out of either the RH starting role  or as replacement for McGinn, on ability.

Offline SaddVillan

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #669 on: Today at 04:53:08 PM »
From The Athletic

HARVEY ELLIOTT, ASTON VILLA AND LIVERPOOL: WHAT WE’RE HEARING

These are testing times for Harvey Elliott.

He finds himself frozen out on loan at Aston Villa, no longer wanted by parent club Liverpool and very far from head coach Thomas Tuchel’s thoughts ahead of England’s final World Cup qualifiers this week, and with the tournament itself seven months away.

Not even in his worst nightmares would this scenario have played out after he made the tough decision to leave Anfield in search of regular game time just 10 weeks ago.

What happens next is largely dependent on Villa manager Unai Emery, and whether he finds a way to reintegrate Elliott.

An early exit currently looks unlikely, with no January recall clause in what is a season-long loan, while neither club have indicated at this stage that they want the deal cancelled. Adding to the complexity is a clause that states Villa must make Elliott’s transfer permanent should he make 10 appearances for them this season (he has already played six times, albeit just twice as a starter).

Liverpool sources have indicated that the final transfer fee would be £35million ($46m); Villa sources say it’s closer to £30m. Either way, it’s beginning to look like a less cost-effective deal than the one the latter, and many commentators, considered a bargain in the summer.

It all leaves Elliott in a tricky spot, especially as he’s already represented those two clubs this season and cannot move on in the winter window to feature for a third.

The Athletic spoke to a range of sources with knowledge of the situation, all of whom asked to remain anonymous as they did not have permission to talk, to see how we got here and what could happen next.

WHY DID ELLIOTT LEAVE LIVERPOOL FOR VILLA?
On the back of a brilliant summer, where he was named player of the tournament as England retained their Under-21 European Championship title, Elliott was ready to kick on with regular senior football.

He thought hard about staying at Liverpool and fighting for his place but, with the arrivals of new signings Florian Wirtz, Jeremie Frimpong and other attackers including Hugo Ekitike and Alexander Isak, it was clear he would face further struggles after making just two starts in the Premier League last season.

Although Elliott was named in the champions’ squad for the first three games of the campaign in August, when Villa formalised their interest, he decided a move would give him the best chance of achieving his aims, one of which was to push for a place in Tuchel’s squad for the World Cup next summer.

He also sensed an opportunity to lift a team in desperate need of attacking flair. When he joined on deadline day, September 1, Villa were the only team in the country not to have scored a goal in the young season. Ironically, it would be Elliott who ended that drought a couple of weeks later, but more difficult times were to follow.

Villa moved for Elliott having missed out on Lucas Paqueta of West Ham and Paris Saint-Germain’s Marco Asensio, the latter having spent the second half of last season on loan at the Birmingham club. Both players were preferred options for Emery.

The structure of the deal, which was driven by Villa’s since-departed president of football operations Monchi, also appealed as Liverpool were prepared to sanction a move that ensured Villa complied with European football governing body UEFA’s financial restrictions. Initially, Liverpool wanted around £50million, or £40m with a buyback clause, to sell Elliott but Germany’s RB Leipzig, the other club to show the most interest in him, were only prepared to pay around half that, so backed out.

It was only when Liverpool knew for certain they were signing striker Isak from Newcastle that they allowed Elliott to leave. Late in the summer window, they negotiated an initial loan to Villa including a buyback provision that ensured they could move to re-sign him in the future if his development stayed on track.

HOW HAS HE BEEN USED BY VILLA SINCE?
Elliott’s introduction was slow-going, broadly due to circumstances beyond his control. He joined at a difficult time, when Villa were struggling and in desperate need of creativity.

A goal on his first start, against Brentford in an eventual Carabao Cup defeat on September 16, initially offered some hope, but Emery’s stinging assessment of his mistimed passes as a second-half substitute in the following game — a 1-1 draw away to Sunderland — knocked him back.

Although Elliott started the next Premier League fixture against his boyhood club, Fulham, he was substituted at half-time and replaced with Emiliano Buendia, who has since found a rich vein of form and remains Emery’s preferred option.

Villa’s sharp upturn in form has also played a part in Elliott’s slow start in claret and blue. They are on a run of eight wins in 10 games, and competition for places in attacking midfield is fierce, with Emery preferring Morgan Rogers, John McGinn and Youri Tielemans as starters, with Buendia and Ross Barkley offering support.

It means Elliott’s game time over the past six weeks has been restricted to just four minutes off the bench at Feyenoord in the Europa League on October 2. He didn’t feature in either of Villa’s next two European games against Go Ahead Eagles and Maccabi Tel Aviv, and couldn’t even make the matchday squad for the Premier League wins over Manchester City last month and Bournemouth this past weekend.

WHY IS HE OUT OF FAVOUR THERE?
Largely because he has not yet fully adjusted to Emery’s strict footballing demands.

The No 10 in the Spaniard’s system is a key player who must be tactically erudite, recognising pressing triggers set by the striker, but also calm and composed in possession.

Last season with Liverpool, Elliott was largely called upon in the Premier League as a substitute when the game state needed changing. He rushed to make things happen when sent on. But at Villa, Emery prefers a more methodical approach. No Premier League team have attacked through central areas more since his arrival three years ago, so attacking midfielders are critical to the build-up.

It’s why the tried-and-trusted trio of Rogers, McGinn and Tielemans are currently preferred. Buendia’s renaissance was also unexpected — Villa were trying to offload him in the final days of the summer window, but the Argentinian wanted to stay, even when German club Stuttgart proposed a loan. He has scored four goals in eight games and looks fitter than ever 14 months on from returning after losing the entire 2023-24 season to an ACL knee injury.

Even Barkley, who Emery prefers as another No 6, is ahead when coming on as a No 10 because of the way he has performed recently in training.

It’s worth remembering, however, that a slow start under Emery does not necessarily mean the end for a player. Tielemans didn’t start in the Premier League until the November after he joined Villa in summer 2023, and Rogers also needed a few months to fully understand the manager’s demands following his arrival in that same season’s winter window.

HOW HAS ELLIOTT TAKEN ALL THIS?
There’s a growing frustration on the player’s part, because the situation is getting worse not better.

Elliott had to be patient last season when he sustained an injury early in Arne Slot’s debut year and missed out on a crucial period to impress the new head coach. When he returned, Liverpool were on a roll and Slot barely rotated his first-choice team, with Dominik Szoboszlai or Curtis Jones in attacking midfield and Mohamed Salah in blistering form on the right side of attack.

Now he finds himself unable to break into the Villa team because of their fine recent form. He has impressed staff at the club with his attitude and application and didn’t take offence to Emery’s tough love at first. However, he has become increasingly disappointed over the past month as sitting on the sidelines wasn’t what he expected or was told lay ahead when he signed.

The fact he’s only played 167 minutes by the November international break suggests he might have even had more game time if he’d stayed at Anfield, but the fear of wasting another season as a bit-part player is now his biggest concern.

WHAT HAS EMERY SAID ABOUT IT?
Emery welcomed Elliott with a hug when he joined, and has consistently praised his commitment and personality over the past two months.

Yet he hasn’t been afraid to call out his struggles to adapt. He said Elliott played passes too quickly in that draw with Sunderland, and demanded that he hit shorter, safer balls during build-up. “Some players need adaptation,” he said in a press conference after the game. “Harvey, he had one chance to score, but he has to understand our identity better as well. He has to (make) more passes before doing the last pass, the last assist.“

When asked why the 22-year-old wasn’t in the squad for the recent 1-0 home win against City, Emery said: “He is training well, and he played some matches, but the performances weren’t what we needed. Some players are playing as a No 10, and they are playing well, like Buendia and Rogers. Also Ross Barkley, after he was out.

“In the squad, we needed to take one player out, and I decided for (it to be) him. I am happy with him. He is training good. His commitment is fantastic and he is a good guy. (It is) Only a tactical decision.”

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN IN TERMS OF HIM JOINING VILLA PERMANENTLY NEXT SUMMER?
As difficult as it is for Elliott right now, time is still on his side.

He’s only two months into a season-long loan and isn’t far away from triggering the 10-appearances clause to make the move permanent. With Villa’s hectic schedule combining Premier League and Europa League fixtures and the FA Cup adding more to their plate in January, he may well be needed more often in the times ahead.

Still young (Elliott turns 23 in April), having gained Premier League and Champions League experience with Liverpool and with the potential to kick on as a player, he still has a high ceiling and will hold resale value.

For years, the Villa scouting department had identified Elliott as a player of interest, and even though he arrived at a time of tensions between Emery and Monchi, he remains a relatively safe investment.

COULD HE RETURN TO LIVERPOOL IN JANUARY?
There’s no specific winter-window break clause in the loan deal, nor have there been any discussions over cutting his time in the Midlands short.

It is not that Liverpool definitely believe he will join Villa in the summer — they clearly have no control over how Elliott is used by Emery — but they planned for the whole season without him and knew all the factors heading their way, with Egypt international Salah departing for Africa Cup of Nations duty in December and the summer’s new players needing time to settle in.

It certainly felt like the end for him at Anfield when Elliott was given the all-clear to leave. He delivered an emotional goodbye message on his social media platforms and Salah posted his own message wishing him well: “You leave as a champion, and I’ve got no doubt you’ll do big things at your new club. They are lucky to have you.”

It was a sentiment many agreed with but, after this difficult start, Elliott has a long way to go before those words become a reality.

Offline lovejoy

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #670 on: Today at 06:18:45 PM »
So if he doesn’t get to 10 what happens at the end of the season? Do we have the ability to send him back or is it up to Liverpool to call him back? Otherwise we are stuck with his wages?

Online Dave

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #671 on: Today at 06:27:25 PM »
We can choose to sign him or not. But presumably if he's not played ten matches, we're not going to have any interest in paying them £30-35m.

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #672 on: Today at 07:52:40 PM »
Well indeed, but I think it’s highly unlikely that if he’d here for the whole season that he’s not playing 10 games.

Online Sexual Ealing

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #673 on: Today at 08:15:52 PM »
I find it very easy to imagine.

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)
« Reply #674 on: Today at 08:19:17 PM »
I find it very easy to imagine.

To January absolutely, but in multiple competitions up to the end of the season, there will be injuries. He’s only got to make 5 more appearances. Just don’t see it, partially because I don’t buy for a second anyone comes into the club without Unai’s approval.

 


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