Tottenham Hotspur vs Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[kipeye]

I’ve haven't  seen an angle from when the ball actually left Digne’s boot either. We see the line but not the ball on his foot. Well I haven’t anyway.

I keep thinking this about many of the decisions. It's absolutely crucial to the marginal ones. I truly believe that the best answer is to allow the thickness of the red line to go in favour of the attacker.

You never will because they know they have no tech to prove the moment…it’s why I end up screaming at tv everytime some idiotic pundit says VAR is factual for offsides….it isn’t!!

You should have a pint with Chico Hamilton as he always says the same thing.

[ChicagoLion]

I’ve haven't  seen an angle from when the ball actually left Digne’s boot either. We see the line but not the ball on his foot. Well I haven’t anyway.

I keep thinking this about many of the decisions. It's absolutely crucial to the marginal ones. I truly believe that the best answer is to allow the thickness of the red line to go in favour of the attacker.

You never will because they know they have no tech to prove the moment…it’s why I end up screaming at tv everytime some idiotic pundit says VAR is factual for offsides….it isn’t!!

You should have a pint with Chico Hamilton as he always says the same thing.

they could easily build into the equation a safety margin in favour of the attacker, but the idiots still try to claim 100% accuracy when it is impossible based on the technology.

[Pat Mustard]

I’ve haven't  seen an angle from when the ball actually left Digne’s boot either. We see the line but not the ball on his foot. Well I haven’t anyway.

I keep thinking this about many of the decisions. It's absolutely crucial to the marginal ones. I truly believe that the best answer is to allow the thickness of the red line to go in favour of the attacker.

You never will because they know they have no tech to prove the moment…it’s why I end up screaming at tv everytime some idiotic pundit says VAR is factual for offsides….it isn’t!!

You should have a pint with Chico Hamilton as he always says the same thing.

they could easily build into the equation a safety margin in favour of the attacker, but the idiots still try to claim 100% accuracy when it is impossible based on the technology.

I've said it lots of times, but the drawing of the lines for offside is nonsense, a piece of pseudo-science designed to placate media airheads.  Deciding the point at which a player is offside is still completely subjective - given the way a ball is kicked a player will be both onside and offside in the same action when it is as close as Ollie's goal was on Sunday.  All the lines do is show the arbitrary point someone in a studio has decided is relevant.

[Brend'Watkins]

I’ve haven't  seen an angle from when the ball actually left Digne’s boot either. We see the line but not the ball on his foot. Well I haven’t anyway.

I keep thinking this about many of the decisions. It's absolutely crucial to the marginal ones. I truly believe that the best answer is to allow the thickness of the red line to go in favour of the attacker.

You never will because they know they have no tech to prove the moment…it’s why I end up screaming at tv everytime some idiotic pundit says VAR is factual for offsides….it isn’t!!

You should have a pint with Chico Hamilton as he always says the same thing.

they could easily build into the equation a safety margin in favour of the attacker, but the idiots still try to claim 100% accuracy when it is impossible based on the technology.

I've said it lots of times, but the drawing of the lines for offside is nonsense, a piece of pseudo-science designed to placate media airheads.  Deciding the point at which a player is offside is still completely subjective - given the way a ball is kicked a player will be both onside and offside in the same action when it is as close as Ollie's goal was on Sunday.  All the lines do is show the arbitrary point someone in a studio has decided is relevant.

I agree that VAR isn't factual to the nth degree but it is more factual than a linesman's vision. It's why I don't have a problem with it for offsides. The tech will improve over time to a point where we will know the precise moment the ball is passed forward to the exact location within millimeters of the last part of the attackers scoring part of his body.  What we have now is far better than what was before.  My biggest gripe is the amount of time it takes, it should be near enough instant.

[Somniloquism]

For the offsides, I looked at the Romero red card event to see why they were asking for us to be down to 8 men. They had a VAR review for offside as well for Nicolas Jackson which was tight (his arse was offside fractionally in the end). The footage of the VAR incident has been released and shows the offside check. The VO shows three frames with the VAR ref choosing the one he is going to use. In all three the ball and leg are a blur so they can only guesstimate the one to use. Assuming all the frames are then synced correctly the other footages are then stopped for the lines to be drawn.

From 1 minute into the video for the offside frames. 

[paul_e]

I’ve haven't  seen an angle from when the ball actually left Digne’s boot either. We see the line but not the ball on his foot. Well I haven’t anyway.

I keep thinking this about many of the decisions. It's absolutely crucial to the marginal ones. I truly believe that the best answer is to allow the thickness of the red line to go in favour of the attacker.

You never will because they know they have no tech to prove the moment…it’s why I end up screaming at tv everytime some idiotic pundit says VAR is factual for offsides….it isn’t!!

You should have a pint with Chico Hamilton as he always says the same thing.

they could easily build into the equation a safety margin in favour of the attacker, but the idiots still try to claim 100% accuracy when it is impossible based on the technology.

I've said it lots of times, but the drawing of the lines for offside is nonsense, a piece of pseudo-science designed to placate media airheads.  Deciding the point at which a player is offside is still completely subjective - given the way a ball is kicked a player will be both onside and offside in the same action when it is as close as Ollie's goal was on Sunday.  All the lines do is show the arbitrary point someone in a studio has decided is relevant.

I agree that VAR isn't factual to the nth degree but it is more factual than a linesman's vision. It's why I don't have a problem with it for offsides. The tech will improve over time to a point where we will know the precise moment the ball is passed forward to the exact location within millimeters of the last part of the attackers scoring part of his body.  What we have now is far better than what was before.  My biggest gripe is the amount of time it takes, it should be near enough instant.

Yep, I agree, that was my problem during the game, the decision to chalk off the Watkins goal was nearly 3minutes, which should be unacceptable to anyone in the game.

[pablo_picasso]

I’ve haven't  seen an angle from when the ball actually left Digne’s boot either. We see the line but not the ball on his foot. Well I haven’t anyway.

I keep thinking this about many of the decisions. It's absolutely crucial to the marginal ones. I truly believe that the best answer is to allow the thickness of the red line to go in favour of the attacker.

You never will because they know they have no tech to prove the moment…it’s why I end up screaming at tv everytime some idiotic pundit says VAR is factual for offsides….it isn’t!!

You should have a pint with Chico Hamilton as he always says the same thing.

they could easily build into the equation a safety margin in favour of the attacker, but the idiots still try to claim 100% accuracy when it is impossible based on the technology.

I've said it lots of times, but the drawing of the lines for offside is nonsense, a piece of pseudo-science designed to placate media airheads.  Deciding the point at which a player is offside is still completely subjective - given the way a ball is kicked a player will be both onside and offside in the same action when it is as close as Ollie's goal was on Sunday.  All the lines do is show the arbitrary point someone in a studio has decided is relevant.

This. Very much this...

[Risso]

For the offsides, I looked at the Romero red card event to see why they were asking for us to be down to 8 men. They had a VAR review for offside as well for Nicolas Jackson which was tight (his arse was offside fractionally in the end). The footage of the VAR incident has been released and shows the offside check. The VO shows three frames with the VAR ref choosing the one he is going to use. In all three the ball and leg are a blur so they can only guesstimate the one to use. Assuming all the frames are then synced correctly the other footages are then stopped for the lines to be drawn.

From 1 minute into the video for the offside frames. 

That video shows what a farce the offside VAR is. When they freeze the frame the ball is a blur about a metre wide, how on earth can they be pixel perfect from that? It was good communication for the red card/penalty to be fair, but the offside clearly isn't accurate due to the speeds and technology used.

[Chico Hamilton III]

I’ve haven't  seen an angle from when the ball actually left Digne’s boot either. We see the line but not the ball on his foot. Well I haven’t anyway.

You never will because they know they have no tech to prove the moment…it’s why I end up screaming at tv everytime some idiotic pundit says VAR is factual for offsides….it isn’t!!

You should have a pint with Chico Hamilton as he always says the same thing.

Drives me mad. We deal in millimetres in terms of the “offending” players’ toes being offside when the line is applied. But how do we know this is the exact moment that the ball is leaving the passing player’s boot. And what is the definition of the ball being passed? Is it only after the ball has left the boot?

[dave.woodhall]

I agree. They spend hours deliberating where exactly the player is to the nearest millimetre but nothing at all on when the ball was kicked.

[Risso]

Drives me mad. We deal in millimetres in terms of the “offending” players’ toes being offside when the line is applied. But how do we know this is the exact moment that the ball is leaving the passing player’s boot. And what is the definition of the ball being passed? Is it only after the ball has left the boot?

Exactly. This is where VAR froze the frame for the attacking player's position:



Where exactly is the ball at that split second? Still attached to the player's foot, or actually a metre away? Absolute fucking nonsense.

[Pat Mustard]

Drives me mad. We deal in millimetres in terms of the “offending” players’ toes being offside when the line is applied. But how do we know this is the exact moment that the ball is leaving the passing player’s boot. And what is the definition of the ball being passed? Is it only after the ball has left the boot?

Exactly. This is where VAR froze the frame for the attacking player's position:



Where exactly is the ball at that split second? Still attached to the player's foot, or actually a metre away? Absolute fucking nonsense.

That's the perfect image to show anyone who says VAR has improved the accuracy of offsides.  Just the physics of the situation makes it impossible to call (the length of time a players foot is in contact with the ball when making a cross/pass and the speed of a Premier League footballer at full pace means the margin for an offside call is closer to metres than millimeters)   and then you have this imperfect technology being used on top.

Given all of these variables, I would love to see a proper comparison of how much more accurate things are now than when it was just a linesman (ok, assistant referee) making that call - I bet it isn't much.  And for that we have lost the spontaneous joy of being able to celebrate a goal properly, rather than 3 minutes after it has been scored.

[London Villan]

Much wider lines would give VAR more flexibility - if there is any crossover then it's "level". This would mitigate the lack of accuracy when exactly the ball is kicked and also favour the attacker.

[Toronto Villa]

For me offside needs to be the law applied but a common sense approach to whether or not the attacking player actually gained a clear and distinguishable advantage. That’s going to help us as with Ollie’s header but potentially hurt us the most given how often we catch sides offside by the thinnest of margins. But we would adjust, and it would help the game.

[pablo_picasso]

I said it not so long ago, the technology for when a ball is released was used in the world cup & if they used that, along with the lines, then we would get the closest to being correct decisions.

And at least if the technology for the when the ball is released is used in all games, then the baseline is set & we are all working with the same tools & same rules.

None of this "subjective" bullshit...