Away Tickets - What's the magic?

[VillaTim]

The system currently only recognises relatively recent loyalty . Where is the recognition for fans who went through years of stress following the team all over the place under the likes of O'Leary Lambert & McLeish.
I agree with some of the points above , recognise loyalty but maybe a larger % goes to ballot so that more people get a realistic chance. Also maybe when someone has won a ballot maybe they then can't enter another ballot for 3 months for example.

We are the ones in the closed shop mate, you know the ones that you want cut in half so that new fans can replace.... Finally Heck has revealed himself on this site.

I think a fair system would be 70% based on booking history / 30% ballott .

Oh so only 30% of the fans who went through the years you mentioned instead of the original 50%. Give up Chris Heck leave and take TV and LG with you

I'm trying to think what might be a fair system given the obvious flaws in the current regime ? Personally i'd just rip it all up and start again, have an away membership scheme which anyone registered with a booking history can subscribe to and then just go with first come first served each game . Some fans it seems feel like they are entitled to attend EVERY game and are more than happy that others get to ZERO games .

[Dogtanian]

But who is really being disadvantaged? I'm all for more balloting and giving more people an opportunity to experience away matches now and then.

But the reality is the majority of people seem to only want to go to away games when we are either doing really well, or when it's convenient for them.

While some people may 'cheat' the system, I get tickets because I've been going to pretty much every away game since mid-2010. The same complaints were being raised then, but I was able to get my history up at the end of that season by taking any away ticket I could get to the point that the following season I only missed the european away leg.

The way some people talk, you'd think I'm on some sort of gravy train and getting loads of advantages while laughing at everyone else. But going to every away game is bloody hard work. It's expensive and time consuming. People moan about season ticket prices, well it costs me an extra £1.2k a season in tickets and petrol. That's not including any hotels or matchday parking or food on top.

The amount of times we've had to sneak out of work to travel to some god-awful place in rush hour traffic, getting changed in the car in a street somewhere and not getting anything to eat till we are on our way back, not getting home till the early hours but still getting up at 6am for work, having to arrange holidays and family stuff outside the season, saving holidays at work for matches, birthdays and anniversaries on the road, boxing day and new years days in places like bloody Swansea!

Me and my mate have spent so much time cooped up together in a car that his missus is forbidden to adjust my seat!

And for a large chunk of my 14 years going away, it's been absolutely soul destroying.

So I'm sorry if some people think it's not fair that I get to keep going, and Joe Bloggs who gave up his season ticket when we got relegated and now wants back in can't. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over it just yet. 

[PGW]

But who is really being disadvantaged? I'm all for more balloting and giving more people an opportunity to experience away matches now and then.

But the reality is the majority of people seem to only want to go to away games when we are either doing really well, or when it's convenient for them.

While some people may 'cheat' the system, I get tickets because I've been going to pretty much every away game since mid-2010. The same complaints were being raised then, but I was able to get my history up at the end of that season by taking any away ticket I could get to the point that the following season I only missed the european away leg.

The way some people talk, you'd think I'm on some sort of gravy train and getting loads of advantages while laughing at everyone else. But going to every away game is bloody hard work. It's expensive and time consuming. People moan about season ticket prices, well it costs me an extra £1.2k a season in tickets and petrol. That's not including any hotels or matchday parking or food on top.

The amount of times we've had to sneak out of work to travel to some god-awful place in rush hour traffic, getting changed in the car in a street somewhere and not getting anything to eat till we are on our way back, not getting home till the early hours but still getting up at 6am for work, having to arrange holidays and family stuff outside the season, saving holidays at work for matches, birthdays and anniversaries on the road, boxing day and new years days in places like bloody Swansea!

Me and my mate have spent so much time cooped up together in a car that his missus is forbidden to adjust my seat!

And for a large chunk of my 14 years going away, it's been absolutely soul destroying.

So I'm sorry if some people think it's not fair that I get to keep going, and Joe Bloggs who gave up his season ticket when we got relegated and now wants back in can't. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over it just yet. 

Absolutely this

[Ads]

I am entitled to attend every away game by virtue of loyalty being a currency valued by the way every club in the 92 operates tickets. I get to sit in the same seat in the Holte because I pay for it, travel to it and have done for an accumulation of years. If I stopped, I go to the back and couldn't complain. That's the system, for us, for everybody. So it is for away games. If you value it by how quick your broadband is or how quickly you can operate a clunky IT system, then I'd drop down the list I suspect. Thankfully for me, whose intention it is to go to every game till I can't, its not.

[chrisw1]

So I'm sorry if some people think it's not fair that I get to keep going, and Joe Bloggs who gave up his season ticket when we got relegated and now wants back in can't. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over it just yet. 

Other than Cooper's Tim, I'm not sure many people have said that tbf.

I've seen some pretty sensible suggestions that the top criteria is dropped by 2-3 games to take away some of the the pressure of 'all or nothing' (to reduce reselling) and for a reasonably increased ballot (but to exclude the smaller allocations).

[ChicagoLion]

So I'm sorry if some people think it's not fair that I get to keep going, and Joe Bloggs who gave up his season ticket when we got relegated and now wants back in can't. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over it just yet. 

Other than Cooper's Tim, I'm not sure many people have said that tbf.

I've seen some pretty sensible suggestions that the top criteria is dropped by 2-3 games to take away some of the the pressure of 'all or nothing' (to reduce reselling) and for a reasonably increased ballot (but to exclude the smaller allocations).

Agree, I don’t see the logic or fairness in that the only way you get to an away game is go to every away game.
Loyalty should be rewarded but that does not equal a closed shop.

[VillaTim]

That was my point. It's a closed shop and needs to be opened up somewhat . We are not agreeing on how far that door is opened

[amfy]

I totally get the sacrifices people make to go to that number if away games & that it’s not something I’m prepared to do. I & I am sure many others in my position, don’t pick and choose on whether we’re doing well, but will admit to not doing the most difficult ones, or maybe only doing them as a once a season adventure rather than a routine.

However, I believe you yourself have talked on this thread about being worried about giving any game a miss due to the impact on your booking history. (I hope I haven’t got that wrong) I am pretty sure there’s a reasonable chunk of the ‘every game’ group that wouldn’t mind being able to miss up to about half a dozen without losing everything.

My problem isn’t people who’ve put the hard miles in having priority, it’s that the ‘all or nothing’ set up actually only really suits a relatively small number of people.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

Until "The Bournemouth Element" kicks in!

Luton allocation will probably be lower.
It's fair until you don't get a ticket I suppose.
Which is what this whole thread seems to be about!

exactly , no wonder those in the "away club" don't want the system changed

But it’s fair by the same token to say that’s why those that aren’t in it do want it changed! It’s only the same self-interest on the other side of the coin.

There aren’t easy answers, & 30% is far too big a ballot in the current circumstances. It would exclude too many who have made a lot of sacrifices to build perfect booking histories.
Even those who have bought 19 and only personally attended 16, are still way ahead of me.

Maybe making the criteria slightly lower, (e.g starting at 16, or even a little less) would actually still provide first dibs to the same people, because there is virtually no one between all & nothing….

……but this could potentially have a spin off effect of reducing the number of people who feel they need to go to every away game because they wouldn’t lose their priority, and free up some tickets for the more casual, or new, away supporter again.

…& Frank…it’s not about not being bothered to build up a booking history… we simply can’t. We might be able to get one on big cup allocations, but nothing thats going to get you to a league game, ever, on our own booking history under the current system. The last season in the championship I went to about 6-10 games as I had for years, and I haven’t had a look in since.

amfy, I didn't say people couldn't be bothered....they just seem to want to overlook it, pretend it doesn't exist, doesn't matter, shouldn't be a factor.
I know the system very well and how it works but I simply don't know how it can be "improved", and for who exactly? If we choose to include a certain group of fans then you do so by excluding others. The fact that the demand is there is great, but the supply just can't meet it.
As a good mate said a few weeks ago, "All this was much easier when we were shit".

What you did say was something along the lines of ‘they want it now….bollocks to building up a booking history, they just want to get to the front’ which is where I inferred the implication people couldn’t be bothered to build up a booking history. I don’t want to get to the front, I understand why the people who are at the front are at the front & I think most people in my position would say the same.

I am wondering though whether they actually need a starting point for sales to be set so high, when they could set the first sale lower, and everyone who goes now would still be at the front, but with an option of missing a few games without losing their place at the front. In turn, this could free up some tickets for less frequent or new away fans.

My point is that those who are wherever they are on the eligibility list are still on it....whether that's 19 aways or 5 aways...and that should have some influence. To ignore the booking histories of those who are trying hard to build them up just doesn't seem right to me.
I think a more open and honest system would probably be best but atm it works against the regular hardcore who go to (almost) every game. 
As I mentioned a little while ago I tried to return my friends' away tickets the "proper" way but was told I had missed the deadline for a refund etc...so, no one had the tickets that were paid for and 2 seats on the coach went empty. I assume my friends will be "penalised" for non attendance but no one was allowed to take advantage of the situation. That's crazy. Someone with a booking history would have "qualified" for them, surely.

[Ads]

Missing a game would make my teeth itch.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

But who is really being disadvantaged? I'm all for more balloting and giving more people an opportunity to experience away matches now and then.

But the reality is the majority of people seem to only want to go to away games when we are either doing really well, or when it's convenient for them.

While some people may 'cheat' the system, I get tickets because I've been going to pretty much every away game since mid-2010. The same complaints were being raised then, but I was able to get my history up at the end of that season by taking any away ticket I could get to the point that the following season I only missed the european away leg.

The way some people talk, you'd think I'm on some sort of gravy train and getting loads of advantages while laughing at everyone else. But going to every away game is bloody hard work. It's expensive and time consuming. People moan about season ticket prices, well it costs me an extra £1.2k a season in tickets and petrol. That's not including any hotels or matchday parking or food on top.

The amount of times we've had to sneak out of work to travel to some god-awful place in rush hour traffic, getting changed in the car in a street somewhere and not getting anything to eat till we are on our way back, not getting home till the early hours but still getting up at 6am for work, having to arrange holidays and family stuff outside the season, saving holidays at work for matches, birthdays and anniversaries on the road, boxing day and new years days in places like bloody Swansea!

Me and my mate have spent so much time cooped up together in a car that his missus is forbidden to adjust my seat!

And for a large chunk of my 14 years going away, it's been absolutely soul destroying.

So I'm sorry if some people think it's not fair that I get to keep going, and Joe Bloggs who gave up his season ticket when we got relegated and now wants back in can't. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over it just yet. 

Absolutely this

Yep.

[Dogtanian]

Missing a game would make my teeth itch.

Haha yep, but there are times when it might be for the best.

You can actually see me on some of the videos of us celebrating the win at Old Trafford. I had a fever from tonsillitis and I look like I'm about to keel over. I'm quite lucky that I've not had anything serious happen or been very ill. And very, very lucky to have a partner who understands.

[Sexual Ealing]

Missing a game would make my teeth itch.

Haha yep, but there are times when it might be for the best.

You can actually see me on some of the videos of us celebrating the win at Old Trafford. I had a fever from tonsillitis and I look like I'm about to keel over. I'm quite lucky that I've not had anything serious happen or been very ill. And very, very lucky to have a partner who understands.

A partner who understands?! If my wife had a hobby that took her out of the house for a guaranteed 10 hours every fortnight I'd think I was in heaven! I bet he's fucking delighted!

[Dogtanian]

I totally get the sacrifices people make to go to that number if away games & that it’s not something I’m prepared to do. I & I am sure many others in my position, don’t pick and choose on whether we’re doing well, but will admit to not doing the most difficult ones, or maybe only doing them as a once a season adventure rather than a routine.

However, I believe you yourself have talked on this thread about being worried about giving any game a miss due to the impact on your booking history. (I hope I haven’t got that wrong) I am pretty sure there’s a reasonable chunk of the ‘every game’ group that wouldn’t mind being able to miss up to about half a dozen without losing everything.

My problem isn’t people who’ve put the hard miles in having priority, it’s that the ‘all or nothing’ set up actually only really suits a relatively small number of people.

You're right, I have.

I don't like the idea of it being a closed shop either. I don't think it's healthy, a club has to attract new fans and away days can be a great experience that I think everyone should be able to experience at some point. I'd like to see more checks via ticket collections (I've never been checked) and I'd like to see more ballots and mechanisms for people to have an opportunity.

I just don't like the implication that we're all cheating.

It would be interesting if they did something like the mighty waiting list for those with no away history, but a paid upfront version. You sign up, say how many tickets you'd want together, and pay your money. A certain number of tickets are given over to it and you get offered a ticket first come first served. Once you've been, you drop back again. And if you don't get offered one that season you have the option to withdraw and get your money back the next season.

[Dogtanian]

Missing a game would make my teeth itch.

Haha yep, but there are times when it might be for the best.

You can actually see me on some of the videos of us celebrating the win at Old Trafford. I had a fever from tonsillitis and I look like I'm about to keel over. I'm quite lucky that I've not had anything serious happen or been very ill. And very, very lucky to have a partner who understands.

A partner who understands?! If my wife had a hobby that took her out of the house for a guaranteed 10 hours every fortnight I'd think I was in heaven! I bet he's fucking delighted!

Haha, yes. We had this conversation the other week as I commented how nice it is to have the house to yourself and just relax and do what you want. He said I can do what I want whenever, why do I need the house to myself? (You'd think a fellow male would be able to think of at least one answer to that question!  )

He works shifts so he gets loads of time to himself when I'm at work and at the footie, so he doesn't really appreciate it. He used to go to Silverstone with his mates every year which was a little holiday at home for me too!