Our defence

[Beard82]

I didn’t see any of todays game - thankfully - but we lost Mings - who despite all the shit  he gets - has been one of the best defenders in the league for the last 3 seasons.  We have a partnership that has played only a handful of games for us.

Whether there ip to it - only time will tell - but we saw with VVD at Liverpool how much difference losing a key defender can make

[LeonW]

We’ll see, but I suspect we’re drawing too sweeping a conclusion from a very small sample size.

It’s a small sample size at Villa, but there’s a large sample size of stats that state he’s low percentile on aerial duals and tackles.  So far he’s looked exactly like his stats suggest - some excellent passing and some weak defending.  I’m not sure why people are so confident this will change?

What’s his percentile for interceptions? Reading the game etc? You’re right he’s hopeless, he’s never performed at a high level so we should give up after 4 games.

I think what Chrisw is saying is that we’re getting the player we expected. But because of Mings injury, he’s being forced into things quickly and perhaps playing a role in games we may not have intended him to have. But needs must. Spanish football is more languid and less physical then the premier league so he’s going to have to really get up to speed quickly. Playing physical sides and opponents a few times a season in European football or some league games is different to having it pretty much week in week out. 

There are some things you can’t necessarily significantly change in your game. If Mings had been fit, I suspect Torres would have played where Carlos played today.

[chrisw1]

We’ll see, but I suspect we’re drawing too sweeping a conclusion from a very small sample size.

It’s a small sample size at Villa, but there’s a large sample size of stats that state he’s low percentile on aerial duals and tackles.  So far he’s looked exactly like his stats suggest - some excellent passing and some weak defending.  I’m not sure why people are so confident this will change?

What’s his percentile for interceptions? Reading the game etc? You’re right he’s hopeless, he’s never performed at a high level so we should give up after 4 games.

Look up the stats yourself Paul rather than trying to be facetious.

[Clampy]

He has a point though. Let's give him a bit longer than 4 games.

[PaulWinch again]

The thing with stats is they can be read in different ways. Who knows you might be right and he might not be able to do the fundamentals of defending. But I suspect you can’t succeed in elite European competition and have 20+ caps for Spain as a centre half if you cannot defend, irrespective of your passing ability. Also given Emery’s attention to detail I doubt it’s something he hasn’t thought about. My comment on specific stats was a bit facetious, but there was a serious point behind it. You need to look at a defender in the round.

[LeonW]

I don’t think anyone is writing Torres off.

[PaulTheVillan]

Wasn't Van Dijk a bit dodgy when he first joined Liverpool? I know people are only saying what they see but some players do need time.

No I don't think so re VVD. But in any case, he'd proven at Southampton that he had the necessary attributes to be a huge success. Tall, quick, powerful, and great on the ball. Our Tyrone has similar attributes, but when we first came up he made a few mistakes. Once he cut them out, he turned into one of the very best, elite level central defenders. Is a defender who isn't strong and isn't quick going to suddenly acquire those attributes, and if he can't, is the rest of his game good enough to compensate? We'll see I suppose.

Vidic and Evra were both shit when they first joined Man Utd. Then turned into two of the best of their generation

[chrisw1]

Harry Maguire has got 57 caps for England.

I’m not saying Torres is shit, just that he has known weaknesses to his game.  I don’t quite get the blind faith that somehow these are going to miraculously change now he’s playing for Villa.

[PaulWinch again]

Who’s being facetious now? It’s not blind faith, it’s that a centre back does not play an integral part of getting his team to the latter stages of European competitions if he cannot defend to a good level.

[Risso]

How many games do we have to give Bailey? Asking for a friend.

[PaulWinch again]

My point is he doesn’t have to be the best tackler to be a good defender.

[PaulTheVillan]

My point is he doesn’t have to be the best tackler to be a good defender.

Good defenders hardly make a tackle

[PeterWithesShin]

Noticeable that Martinez was in goal for the 2 batterings and defensive shambles. Time for Olsen to be made number 1.

[chrisw1]

My point is he doesn’t have to be the best tackler to be a good defender.

Good defenders hardly make a tackle

Do they make defensive headers?

[LeonW]

How many games do we have to give Bailey? Asking for a friend.

No more away from home.