Our defence

[PaulWinch again]

My point is he doesn’t have to be the best tackler to be a good defender.

Good defenders hardly make a tackle

Do they make defensive headers?

Depends doesn’t it? Of course he’ll have to sometimes, does he need to be some big lump who blunders in? No. It doesn’t really matter though does it, because dress it up however we like it you think he’s no good and I think he’ll be ok. One of us is going to be wrong.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Noticeable that Martinez was in goal for the 2 batterings and defensive shambles. Time for Olsen to be made number 1.

You laugh but after 55 minutes I was more concerned with Emi thinking enough with these jokers.

[VillaTim]

Far from convinced by Torres , looks like a nice CB for a striker to play against . Yet to see him make a serious physical tackle . Seems like a clean shorts type player

[RamboandBruno]

Harry Maguire has got 57 caps for England.

I’m not saying Torres is shit, just that he has known weaknesses to his game.  I don’t quite get the blind faith that somehow these are going to miraculously change now he’s playing for Villa.

You’ve said in the match thread we’ve bought someone who can’t defend. If defending is all about aerial duels etc and the stats you quote are 100% on the money, then you are obviously correct, but I suspect its far more nuanced than this. As Paul says, you don!t play at the level he has without being able to play a bit. If Torres’ strengths aren’t heading and out jumping opponents then other players who will have to fill that gap. Emery obviously see’s him as one of they key playmakers in the team and I’m sure he knows his man.

[chrisw1]

We’ll see, but I suspect we’re drawing too sweeping a conclusion from a very small sample size.

It’s a small sample size at Villa, but there’s a large sample size of stats that state he’s low percentile on aerial duals and tackles.  So far he’s looked exactly like his stats suggest - some excellent passing and some weak defending.  I’m not sure why people are so confident this will change?

What’s his percentile for interceptions? Reading the game etc? You’re right he’s hopeless, he’s never performed at a high level so we should give up after 4 games.

I think what Chrisw is saying is that we’re getting the player we expected. But because of Mings injury, he’s being forced into things quickly and perhaps playing a role in games we may not have intended him to have. But needs must. Spanish football is more languid and less physical then the premier league so he’s going to have to really get up to speed quickly. Playing physical sides and opponents a few times a season in European football or some league games is different to having it pretty much week in week out. 

There are some things you can’t necessarily significantly change in your game. If Mings had been fit, I suspect Torres would have played where Carlos played today.

Pretty much yes Leon.  Although my suspicion is maybe there was a hope to pair him with Carlos in a 4 at times too.

[LeonW]

We’ll see, but I suspect we’re drawing too sweeping a conclusion from a very small sample size.

It’s a small sample size at Villa, but there’s a large sample size of stats that state he’s low percentile on aerial duals and tackles.  So far he’s looked exactly like his stats suggest - some excellent passing and some weak defending.  I’m not sure why people are so confident this will change?

What’s his percentile for interceptions? Reading the game etc? You’re right he’s hopeless, he’s never performed at a high level so we should give up after 4 games.

I think what Chrisw is saying is that we’re getting the player we expected. But because of Mings injury, he’s being forced into things quickly and perhaps playing a role in games we may not have intended him to have. But needs must. Spanish football is more languid and less physical then the premier league so he’s going to have to really get up to speed quickly. Playing physical sides and opponents a few times a season in European football or some league games is different to having it pretty much week in week out. 

There are some things you can’t necessarily significantly change in your game. If Mings had been fit, I suspect Torres would have played where Carlos played today.

Pretty much yes Leon.  Although my suspicion is maybe there was a hope to pair him with Carlos in a 4 at times too.

Depending on the opponent, i’d have thought so. But perhaps not Liverpool at their place when they’ve only had 3 or 4 games together and Carlos is also getting up to speed with the premier league which i’m sure is not what Emery would have wanted to do.

[VillaTim]

His lack of pace is really alarming

[ROBBO]

This is one game against a top two side, sometimes you have to have a reality check and that happened today. We are not a top four side yet, the injuries we had early put a stop to that. Emery will sort it out, we will have more better days than bad.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Top 4 but I don't see Liverpool as a top 2 side. Today we gave them probably their easiest home game of the season. They do knock it around well but they're nothing special.

[SoccerHQ]

Wasn't Van Dijk a bit dodgy when he first joined Liverpool? I know people are only saying what they see but some players do need time.

Martinez was certainly getting panned after Man. United lost 4-0 at Brentford with likes of Souness pointing out his height every five minutes. He settled down and generally had a good season.

I think Pau will be fine v most of the bottom half, I thought he cruised through the Everton and Burnley games. However with the Mings void we also need him to step up in games like today and he looked sunday league out there which is a bit of a problem.

With his experience though we've also brought him for european football so that's a level where he should excel and if we win it with him contributing significantly that pretty much makes the signing a success.

[ozzjim]

See I think they will be top 2 Rudy, or at least it will be very tight between them, Arsenal and Spurs for 2, 3 and 4. Nunez I said all last season will come good, his movement and general ability is a really high level and he looks a really good player for me, and I think their midfield is now significantly younger and more mobile than it was last season.

Torres needs 6 months, adapting to the Prem is not an easy ride, but I am confident that Villa will be working on his strength and positioning through the season on the training ground. The high line isn't new for Torres, he has had 2 years at Villareal under Emery and been described as the best centre half in the world by him when there, so I doubt Emery is going to give up on him quickly either. I think the plan was very much to have Mings organising and providing the physical elements though, so his transition would have been easier.

The answer is away from home to play a lower block against sides that are going to turn us round so easily, Torres reads the game very, very well, he steps out time and time again to win the ball. I am less convinced by Carlos alongside him than I am Torres, but again time will tell.

The other issue in the 2 away hammerings has been Kamara, who was shockingly bad in both performances, jittery on the ball and not finding a Villa player consistently, and Watkins, who immitated a brick wall with his control over 90 minutes today. The front gets more clinical, the back has less pressure too.

[RamboandBruno]

See I think they will be top 2 Rudy, or at least it will be very tight between them, Arsenal and Spurs for 2, 3 and 4. Nunez I said all last season will come good, his movement and general ability is a really high level and he looks a really good player for me, and I think their midfield is now significantly younger and more mobile than it was last season.

Torres needs 6 months, adapting to the Prem is not an easy ride, but I am confident that Villa will be working on his strength and positioning through the season on the training ground. The high line isn't new for Torres, he has had 2 years at Villareal under Emery and been described as the best centre half in the world by him when there, so I doubt Emery is going to give up on him quickly either. I think the plan was very much to have Mings organising and providing the physical elements though, so his transition would have been easier.

The answer is away from home to play a lower block against sides that are going to turn us round so easily, Torres reads the game very, very well, he steps out time and time again to win the ball. I am less convinced by Carlos alongside him than I am Torres, but again time will tell.

The other issue in the 2 away hammerings has been Kamara, who was shockingly bad in both performances, jittery on the ball and not finding a Villa player consistently, and Watkins, who immitated a brick wall with his control over 90 minutes today. The front gets more clinical, the back has less pressure too.

Spot on post particularly the last paragraph.

[Chris Smith]

We saw last season how Unai improved both the team and individuals but it didn’t happen overnight. Not having Mings available has also thrown a massive spanner in the works as he is the leader and organiser of the back 4. Individually Carlos and Torres are both good players but it will take time before they are fully effective against the best teams.

If what we read about our manager is true he will have watched and analysed that game multiple times and will be working on improvements.

[sid1964]

We are not fickle but we do love to make 1 of our players a scapegoat for our performances - step forward Pau, last season at this stage Mcginn was the problem.

Hopefully he is not reading any of the comments about him.

Of course if we would have had Tyrone playing yesterday we would have won easily - I think that we need to understand he is not playing again for at least a year,  we did not win every game when he played (also we were losing against Newcastle) before his injury.

[Monty]

I really don't think Spurs have it in them to keep this going. They will have a poor spell.