Chris Heck - President of Business Operations

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When was the last time we went into a league game with 5 to 6000 unsold seats? Pre-Dean Smith?

It probably is.  That also coincides with the last time we as a family wouldn't have all gone to a game we could make, but we are definitely not going to Brentford in December this year as we can no longer justify the cost on top of everything else.

Isn't that a mistake to use personal anecdotal exprience as evidence of a wider trend? I'd be suprised if there's anything less than 40,000 on against Brentford or whatever it is with the upper Witton empty, based on every attendance in the league from February 2019 onwards, that we were able to attend.

[Chip Butty 111]

I'm currently in a meeting with a Man City friend, he is a season ticket holder and in the cup scheme. His ticket for Inter next week was £37:50, and they have been moaning as that is a hike from last year. We have had our trousers pulled down.

[Pat Mustard]

When was the last time we went into a league game with 5 to 6000 unsold seats? Pre-Dean Smith?

It probably is.  That also coincides with the last time we as a family wouldn't have all gone to a game we could make, but we are definitely not going to Brentford in December this year as we can no longer justify the cost on top of everything else.

Isn't that a mistake to use personal anecdotal exprience as evidence of a wider trend? I'd be suprised if there's anything less than 40,000 on against Brentford or whatever it is with the upper Witton empty, based on every attendance in the league from February 2019 onwards, that we were able to attend.

Possibly - maybe everyone else has just got a spare £600 lying around.  All I know is in the past we would have gone to that game, but this year we can't afford it.  There have been plenty of games in that period where the ground hasn't sold out but it has been close enough to be unnoticeable, and I am guessing that's down to attendance of regulars that go to every game they can.  This year, I suspect lots of us won't be able/willing to do it.

[paul_e]

I'm currently in a meeting with a Man City friend, he is a season ticket holder and in the cup scheme. His ticket for Inter next week was £37:50, and they have been moaning as that is a hike from last year. We have had our trousers pulled down.

Comparing us with Man City is meaningless, they have the turnover, backing and FFP 'clearance' to do whatever they like, as well as a ground that has a 54k capacity that was originally given to them for about £20m quid. They've also cheated the system to a ridiculous degree to create that situation.

[Drummond]

And for years they've had to give tickets away through lack of demand.

Anyway, it's still fucking shit. Just as well I'm not in the away club and having to find the cash for that every other week.

[VillaTim]

Wait til we play Man U / L'Pool etc and there are loads of cockney reds in the GA+ seats . Fiasco

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When was the last time we went into a league game with 5 to 6000 unsold seats? Pre-Dean Smith?

It probably is.  That also coincides with the last time we as a family wouldn't have all gone to a game we could make, but we are definitely not going to Brentford in December this year as we can no longer justify the cost on top of everything else.

Isn't that a mistake to use personal anecdotal exprience as evidence of a wider trend? I'd be suprised if there's anything less than 40,000 on against Brentford or whatever it is with the upper Witton empty, based on every attendance in the league from February 2019 onwards, that we were able to attend.

Possibly - maybe everyone else has just got a spare £600 lying around.  All I know is in the past we would have gone to that game, but this year we can't afford it.  There have been plenty of games in that period where the ground hasn't sold out but it has been close enough to be unnoticeable, and I am guessing that's down to attendance of regulars that go to every game they can.  This year, I suspect lots of us won't be able/willing to do it.

Fair enough, sounds more like you're hoping that will happen to me, as there's nothing to really back it up.

[Dante Lavelli]

It looks pretty clear to me that he's been offered an enormous bonus to get us to a figure of £400m turnover and he doesn't really give a shit how he gets there as he wont be here much longer afterward to clear up the broken relationship between club and fans.

Exactly how I see it.

I’ve long thought this.

It also justifies canceling the North Stand. The target would be significantly harder with 25% of the stadium in landfill.

[eamonn]

I'm currently in a meeting with a Man City friend, he is a season ticket holder and in the cup scheme. His ticket for Inter next week was £37:50, and they have been moaning as that is a hike from last year. We have had our trousers pulled down.

A hike from what, kids for a quid?!

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Wait til we play Man U / L'Pool etc and there are loads of cockney reds in the GA+ seats . Fiasco

It will be another "great success".

[VillaTim]

The homes games vs Bournemouth and Palace in October & November respectively will be a good litmus test of the pricing strategy . Then again they will probably sweep it all under the carpet and pretend all the empty seats are just a mirage. Smoke and Mirrors with Heck.

[Pat Mustard]

When was the last time we went into a league game with 5 to 6000 unsold seats? Pre-Dean Smith?

It probably is.  That also coincides with the last time we as a family wouldn't have all gone to a game we could make, but we are definitely not going to Brentford in December this year as we can no longer justify the cost on top of everything else.

Isn't that a mistake to use personal anecdotal exprience as evidence of a wider trend? I'd be suprised if there's anything less than 40,000 on against Brentford or whatever it is with the upper Witton empty, based on every attendance in the league from February 2019 onwards, that we were able to attend.

Possibly - maybe everyone else has just got a spare £600 lying around.  All I know is in the past we would have gone to that game, but this year we can't afford it.  There have been plenty of games in that period where the ground hasn't sold out but it has been close enough to be unnoticeable, and I am guessing that's down to attendance of regulars that go to every game they can.  This year, I suspect lots of us won't be able/willing to do it.

Fair enough, sounds more like you're hoping that will happen to me, as there's nothing to really back it up.

I'm certainly not hoping we have thousands of empty seats, as I think I have tried to say it's vital we fill the ground as much as possible when one or two league points can make a massive difference and home crowds have a demonstrable influence on results.  There are very specific reasons why I think this year could see a few league games with low attendances (sub 40k) that we haven't seen since we got promoted:

1 - There were a number of games where home tickets didn't sell out in 23/24, mainly in the first half of the season before we saw how things were panning out.  Given we only have roughly 10k tickets to sell for any given match (deducting STs and away support), it's not a huge number to sell for any one game, yet we failed to on at least 3 or 4 occasions last season.
2 - Out of the roughly 10k tickets, most are being sold to members.  In that group, I would suspect there is a bit of a 50/50 split between people like ourselves who up until now have effectively treated them as a de facto season ticket (i.e. it's the only way to buy tickets for every match), and those who pick them up for specific games that are convenient or appealing, with then a very limited number going to general sale.
3 - This year, any member that wants to go to CL games will have spent IRO £270 extra by November.  Given general admission prices have gone up by 15% already this season, that is a lot of extra money no-one has had to find before, and all in the space of the first 3-4 months of a season that could see much bigger games coming after Christmas. 
4 - There is a general loss of 'goodwill' amongst those members who have either been priced out of CL games, or were unable to get a ticket for Bayern due to the frankly shitty prioritisation of ticket sales, with hardly any credit for loyalty from last season.
5 - The number of concessionary seats in the ground was cut this season again.  If you are taking a child to a game, there are now less of those seats available and only in specific areas - people who would potentially be filling two seats will now take none.

Like I say, this could be just me extrapolating my own circumstances, but I've seen enough comments in the last few days on here and social media from long-standing fans that show we are seriously close to losing fans who have been match-going for years if not decades.  I was also out with friends who are all ST holders over the weekend, and every single one of them has been demoralised by the last few weeks.

As supporters of all clubs have been saying for a long time, there is a tipping point (and this will be at a different level for different clubs) where fans will be priced out of the game and the whole thing will suffer - for the first time as a Villa fan, I honestly think we have reached ours and it has come just as we should be celebrating the best team we've had in a quarter of a century.

[Chip Butty 111]

I'm currently in a meeting with a Man City friend, he is a season ticket holder and in the cup scheme. His ticket for Inter next week was £37:50, and they have been moaning as that is a hike from last year. We have had our trousers pulled down.

Comparing us with Man City is meaningless, they have the turnover, backing and FFP 'clearance' to do whatever they like, as well as a ground that has a 54k capacity that was originally given to them for about £20m quid. They've also cheated the system to a ridiculous degree to create that situation.

Well this has given us all a laugh this afternoon.
The keyword being turnover. The commercial side of the other clubs in the top 5 dwarfs ours. Increasing ticket prices adds next to nothing in the big picture financially. Ditto GA+. Small fry revenue wise. Emery has raised our profile massively, making us very attractive to commercial partnerships. This is how the other clubs have made money, and plenty of it.
As you say City have the backing, then so do we with NSWE.
And yes they clearly are cheats.
But they are way more savvy commercially, along with your Spurs, Arsenals of the world, and this is what we need to learn now we have a successful team.
We are in the limelight for once and need to exploit it to the max.
Raising ticket prices to daft levels, relevant to average wages in the local community, is a business model that no other top club has adopted surprisingly. And about 80% on here are fuming/disillusioned/priced out.
It's a bad idea and hasn't been well received clearly.
I'm involved in the delivery of railway infrastructure projects that cost millions, new junctions/stations/new routes.
They are funded via commercial partnerships.
They are not funded by  Mr Smith on the 8:15 to Paddington
It's how big business works. Perhaps if we get savvy we can charge £30 for Real Madrid like City did last year.

[oldhill_avfc]

I think we have to realise that the cosy bubble our club has been in for so long is no more.

We want to play with the big boys, we have to take a hit. Our ticket prices have been cheap, relatively speaking, compared with other big clubs. Our levels of success mirror that. We've had none.

Things are changing, we're competing, yet we were still, only a couple of months ago, on the brink PSR wise.

The club needs more revenue, and the easiest and quickest way to get more is to do what they've done, and that's hit the most loyal.

Emery is more than doing his part, and ahead of schedule, Heck's job is to facilitate Emery being able to do his, he's not creating vast swathes of profit, he's creating funds to stop us losing more money and trying to keep us competitive.

None of us like that it's us that's paying for it right now. I don't know how some people expect us to stay competitive financially otherwise though? As an example, would you rather sell some of our players?

The price rises, the GA+ thing were happening under Purslow, before he arrived, he's come in and expanded it. The owners must be aware.

My gut feeling is that he's pushing it to the limit, to test the limits, and Bayern has sold out on double quick time. I doubt this is sustainable, but he'll carry on being a bastard and screwing our thumbs down for as long as he can. Then he'll leave, we will still be here, and things will change, for better or worse.

Modern football is shit.

Spot on.

The only thing to add is that in the short term NSW we’re willing to swap operating losses for equity growth.  That will have stop at some point so growing revenue is the only way forward.

[oldhill_avfc]

Heck has gone for the easy option, fleece the loyal fan base. What is he doing on the commercial side though? Birmingham based Cadbury are sponsoring ManU, why haven’t we now got a foot in the door there? Or, at any of the other numerous service providers to football clubs? I know we don’t have the pull of ManU globally but even so, increased revenue from Sponsorship should be the benchmark for Heck’s success or otherwise, not, how much he can squeeze from the loyal fan base.

I’m not sure I quite understand how Heck is fleecing the loyal fan base.

The CL tickets are about £20 a game more than we expected, so £80 over the season assuming we don’t progress - I imagine it’s a fairly small percentage over the total cost for most of us season ticket holders.

He’s  trying to grow revenue by selling hospitality and GA+ - if anything he’s trying to fleece the day trippers.