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Author Topic: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.  (Read 836677 times)

Offline chrisw1

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10110 on: September 15, 2023, 04:53:40 PM »
Actually tbf the Zaha example isn't too bad, albeit he had had sustained success at PL level previously, so not too good either really.

Either way any team who takes on Sancho's wages (and no doubt Man U will want some fee) is taking a huge gamble.  It may pay off, but it's not where I'd put my money.  Now if it was a loan with an option to buy and based on very sensible wages, then I'd be far more interested.

Offline john e

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10111 on: September 15, 2023, 04:57:41 PM »
Absolute non starter if the Sancho’s on 350k a week no chance of this happening

Online Dave

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10112 on: September 15, 2023, 05:10:11 PM »
Actually tbf the Zaha example isn't too bad, albeit he had had sustained success at PL level previously, so not too good either really.

I don't think there are really many comparable precedents, as most of the time young players aren't bought for huge money and then binned off quickly. Older ones sure, but you tend to want to protect the value of your asset unless you're a proper basket-case like Man Utd or Chelsea.

I'd argue the best comparison would probably be Lukaku.

Online Drummond

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10113 on: September 15, 2023, 05:21:46 PM »
Sancho will not be getting a £350k salary at his next club. If he leaves ManU as seems to be inevitable, then they will have to pay him off. IF we were to get him, he'd fit within our wage structure. As such, and if Emery and Monchi wanted him, I think he'd do a job for us. Diaby already looks different class and whilst Bailey may not be a world beater he's obviously doing rhe job that Emery wants. I think Sancho would be in the middle in terms of talent and ability.

Having said all that, if he joined us he could say goodbye to his hopes of playing for England again.

Online LeeB

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10114 on: September 15, 2023, 06:12:44 PM »
I never seen what all the fuss is about watching him play, not particularly fast or tricky, or powerful.

Man Ud have made some mental signings over the last few years, trying to stay relevant but forced to shop lower down in the market whilst paying inflated fees and wages because they're Man Utd.

They've completely full circled themselves back to the pre-Ferguson era.

Offline paul_e

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10115 on: September 15, 2023, 06:20:31 PM »
Don't mean this to be a pile on, paul_e, but to me the transfer fee isn't that important.  Barkley & Drinkwater were brought in as first team players.  Salah & De Bruyne were both sold well before they could be considered first teamers.  They're very different situations.

They are, but it's pretty irrelevant. The context was players who had failed at a 'big' club and then gone on and had a good career elsewhere in the premier league. Salah was a 20 year old with the best part of 100 games for Basel (including in the CL) and De Bruyne was 21 and had closer to 120 games to his name. They both failed at Chelsea and weren't signed as academy prospects.

I think the bit that is easier to argue is that both moved away from the league and then came back after a couple of years elsewhere, which is what I think Sancho should do and is why I don't think he'd be the right signing for us.

Zaha was then an example of someone who failed and then went straight back and carried on where he left off and Albrighton was one who broke through did well and then dropped out of favour before coming back elsewhere but he is a very different example.

As Dave says it's harder to get much closer as an example because what has happened with Sancho is very rare.

Offline paul_e

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10116 on: September 15, 2023, 06:25:16 PM »
I never seen what all the fuss is about watching him play, not particularly fast or tricky, or powerful.

Man Ud have made some mental signings over the last few years, trying to stay relevant but forced to shop lower down in the market whilst paying inflated fees and wages because they're Man Utd.

They've completely full circled themselves back to the pre-Ferguson era.

He's very similar to Bailey in a lot of ways, quick but doesn't really use that pace, technically very good but not tricky with it, goes down too easily in the challenge a which makes him look weak but he is good at seeing space and getting on the ball in the right areas and can pull out some stunning finishes but also misses some simpler chances. Both have potential but had problems in their first year and haven't really recovered.

Online algy

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10117 on: September 15, 2023, 06:46:55 PM »
Don't mean this to be a pile on, paul_e, but to me the transfer fee isn't that important.  Barkley & Drinkwater were brought in as first team players.  Salah & De Bruyne were both sold well before they could be considered first teamers.  They're very different situations.

They are, but it's pretty irrelevant. The context was players who had failed at a 'big' club and then gone on and had a good career elsewhere in the premier league. Salah was a 20 year old with the best part of 100 games for Basel (including in the CL) and De Bruyne was 21 and had closer to 120 games to his name. They both failed at Chelsea and weren't signed as academy prospects.

I think the bit that is easier to argue is that both moved away from the league and then came back after a couple of years elsewhere, which is what I think Sancho should do and is why I don't think he'd be the right signing for us.

Zaha was then an example of someone who failed and then went straight back and carried on where he left off and Albrighton was one who broke through did well and then dropped out of favour before coming back elsewhere but he is a very different example.

As Dave says it's harder to get much closer as an example because what has happened with Sancho is very rare.
Well, you are right with Salah, De Bruyne, ... Lukaku is another, and Gary Cahill. It's a fair point.

However, without wanting to be a twat ... I made the comment that all this has stemmed from, so I'm claiming the context as being specifically 'first team' players ... ones who - for example - have been signed with the intention of them playing a significant number of first team games. Like Sancho, or Van Beek.

I'm sure there are examples where a player has not really made the grade at one club, then had a decent career at a different 'top' club. But they're the exception rather than the rule. The overwhelming majority of signings that, say, Man Utd have made that have not really worked out, haven't worked out because the player just isn't suited to - or isn't good enough - to playing at the top end of the Premier League.

Offline paul_e

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10118 on: September 15, 2023, 07:15:02 PM »
Don't mean this to be a pile on, paul_e, but to me the transfer fee isn't that important.  Barkley & Drinkwater were brought in as first team players.  Salah & De Bruyne were both sold well before they could be considered first teamers.  They're very different situations.

They are, but it's pretty irrelevant. The context was players who had failed at a 'big' club and then gone on and had a good career elsewhere in the premier league. Salah was a 20 year old with the best part of 100 games for Basel (including in the CL) and De Bruyne was 21 and had closer to 120 games to his name. They both failed at Chelsea and weren't signed as academy prospects.

I think the bit that is easier to argue is that both moved away from the league and then came back after a couple of years elsewhere, which is what I think Sancho should do and is why I don't think he'd be the right signing for us.

Zaha was then an example of someone who failed and then went straight back and carried on where he left off and Albrighton was one who broke through did well and then dropped out of favour before coming back elsewhere but he is a very different example.

As Dave says it's harder to get much closer as an example because what has happened with Sancho is very rare.
Well, you are right with Salah, De Bruyne, ... Lukaku is another, and Gary Cahill. It's a fair point.

However, without wanting to be a twat ... I made the comment that all this has stemmed from, so I'm claiming the context as being specifically 'first team' players ... ones who - for example - have been signed with the intention of them playing a significant number of first team games. Like Sancho, or Van Beek.

I'm sure there are examples where a player has not really made the grade at one club, then had a decent career at a different 'top' club. But they're the exception rather than the rule. The overwhelming majority of signings that, say, Man Utd have made that have not really worked out, haven't worked out because the player just isn't suited to - or isn't good enough - to playing at the top end of the Premier League.

Fair enough, my only point of contention there is that I doubt anyone told Salah and de Bruyne (to stick to the 2 most clear examples) that they weren't being signed with the intention that they would be playing for the first team, they were 20 and 21 and had played plenty of first team games. also £16m and £8m respectively was decent money in 2012/13. Salah for example would've still been in our top 10 most expensive signings ever until last summer.

Offline AV84

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10119 on: September 19, 2023, 02:39:55 PM »
There's a Q&A on the club site with Monchi today. Some interesting bits about the summer transfer window.

He confirms that the academy players were sold to balance FFP, and that most of them have buy back clauses so he feels we've covered ourselves well for those players.

He also says that he had very little time to adapt for this window so they were working mostly off the club scouts and information he already had. So as some people theorised during the window, the fact most players were were linked with or signed were people Monchi or Emery had signed or worked with  before, was a result of him only joining this summer. So I'd expect to see something different come January or next summer.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10120 on: September 19, 2023, 05:55:06 PM »
Interesting. Whilst I’ve not seen the exact quotes, that may suggest that our future signings will be less well known, possibly less money too.

Offline AV84

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10121 on: September 19, 2023, 06:45:04 PM »
----- In terms of recruitment, are you always working two/three windows ahead or is there more of an emphasis on the here and now?

“There was no time for adaptation, and we tried to succeed in this transfer window with the information that was already in the club and that I could provide.

“The help of the Scouting Department; Rob, Bryn, Joseph, Adam…and Football Research; Frederik and Arjav have been very important.” -----

----- It was a busy summer window with plenty of activity both in and out of the club, how do you reflect on it overall?

“It has been a very complicated and hard-working summer, but I think we should be satisfied with what we have done, as we have kept all the important players plus the arrival of the five.

“The sales have basically been to balance our FFP, but in most cases we have repurchase options, so I think we have covered our backs. -----


Online Stinkin_Thinkin

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10122 on: September 19, 2023, 07:09:32 PM »
Ferguson from Brighton is the one we should be going all out for. Works hard, strong, great touch and knows where the net is. and you could easily double your money on him after a couple of seasons.
Brighton are a selling club so there wouldn't be any tough negotiations, also he is so young we can spread the payments over a long contract chelsea style to keep the FFP boys at bay. Your could even get 40m from somewhere for Watkins to balance the books.
I always think buying the star players off your mid table rivals is a good way to jump a few places however I expect Brighton would have some other kid straight off the production line ready to fill his boots.

Online brontebilly

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10123 on: September 19, 2023, 07:17:27 PM »
Ferguson from Brighton is the one we should be going all out for. Works hard, strong, great touch and knows where the net is. and you could easily double your money on him after a couple of seasons.
Brighton are a selling club so there wouldn't be any tough negotiations, also he is so young we can spread the payments over a long contract chelsea style to keep the FFP boys at bay. Your could even get 40m from somewhere for Watkins to balance the books.
I always think buying the star players off your mid table rivals is a good way to jump a few places however I expect Brighton would have some other kid straight off the production line ready to fill his boots.

Brighton managed to get over 100m for Caicedo! Think Ferguson will have interest from a lot higher up the food chain than us unfortunately.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: 2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.
« Reply #10124 on: September 19, 2023, 07:18:24 PM »
Not sure you could double your money as they’d want a huge sums. From what I’ve read they out manoeuvred Man U to sign him so he has been on club’s radars for a while.

I’d chuck £35m for him tomorrow but I suspect they’d want more.

 


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