UEFA Europa Conference League - Alkmaar, Legia and Zrinjski

[algy]

WHam fan at work says that a lot of their lot are hoping they finish 3rd in their Europa League group so that they can drop back into the Conference and win it again!

I can see a flaw in their plan.

I guess they've seen a plan in their flaws ...

[Risso]

Quick question - how are the coefficients worked out? Is it based on the overall country's success in the competition, the individual club's record in Europe, or a bit of both? Seems slightly odd that England's only entrant into this competition this year possibly isn't going to be seeded.

[Meanwood Villa]

I think it's a bit of both. Our coefficient on our own would be zero if it only goes back a few years.

[Smithy]

I think it's a bit of both. Our coefficient on our own would be zero if it only goes back a few years.

It is both. I don't know what the formula is, but someone explained to me last season that the "score" is for the club, based on their performances in European competition, but then also a fixed number of points are added based on their domestic league.  So every Premier League team in Europe gets XX points added to their coefficient simply for being in the premier league.  We could, in theory, be ranked higher than a team from a poor league that has been in Europe every year for the last five years (assuming they've done pretty badly once there).  It's also a rolling five-year thing, so a couple of years in Europe would boost us pretty significantly.

[AV82EC]

It does take time though West Ham have been in Europe for two seasons now I think and despite wining the UECL they still aren’t ranked in the top 20 clubs by coefficient.

[algy]

Quick question - how are the coefficients worked out? Is it based on the overall country's success in the competition, the individual club's record in Europe, or a bit of both? Seems slightly odd that England's only entrant into this competition this year possibly isn't going to be seeded.

Right, from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Men's_club_coefficient

The club coefficient is either the sum of the points earned by the club in the UEFA Champions League, UEFA Europa League and UEFA Europa Conference League over the previous five seasons or 20% of the club's association coefficient over the same period, whichever coefficient is higher

So, each national association has a coefficient.  This is made up from the average performance in Europe for the clubs from that country over the past 5 seasons.  Some points are awarded for every single game that takes place.  If we draw our first leg in the playoffs, we'll get (a small) number of points added to the English coefficient even if we lost the 2nd leg.  Obviously the further in the competition you get, the more points you get for a win or draw.

So, Man City winning the Champions League means that English sides generally will be slightly higher rated for the next 5 years.  Likewise West Ham winning the Conference League.   But the same applies all the way down, e.g. Ireland will have got a slightly improved coefficient because Shamrock Rovers beat Ferencváros 1-0 in the Europa League playoff 2nd leg last season (even though they got pumped 4-0 in the first leg)

Current association coefficients here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Current_ranking

The important one for us is the first line.  When 'random English club' enters a European competition, they get at least the average coefficient for an English club.  So, for us, we've not qualified for Europe for the past 5 seasons, so rather than ranking us below TNS (who have qualified every season), we're seeded based on 'English clubs generally get this far'.

However, if your club average is higher than the national average over 5 seasons, you take that instead.  So here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Current_club_ranking

You can see Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal .. maybe some others .. have consistently performed above average, so they use their own club coefficient rather than the national association one..

As far as I can see, we're likely to be 'stuck' on the national co-efficient for a little while yet.  If/when we start regularly doing well in competitions, however, we'll get our own ranking.

[Risso]

Thanks chaps.

[Brend'Watkins]

The way I see it is that it might be better to play a seeded team early.  If we fail then a lot of fan money and time is saved.  The squad can then concentrate on the domestic competitions. I do think though that seeded or unseeded we will beat whatever is put in front of us with "the Seeded teams" wanting to avoid us.

[dekko]

The way I see it is that it might be better to play a seeded team early.  If we fail then a lot of fan money and time is saved.  The squad can then concentrate on the domestic competitions. I do think though that seeded or unseeded we will beat whatever is put in front of us with "the Seeded teams" wanting to avoid us.

I agree that all the seeded teams will be hoping to avoid us.

However I dont think that saving time and money will be much of a consolation to people if we lose in the playoffs.  I'd be gutted if after all that hard work and incredible run of form and results to get us here we get knocked out of a competition we should be winning before it even starts.

[Risso]

The way I see it is that it might be better to play a seeded team early.  If we fail then a lot of fan money and time is saved.

Let's hope we're saved the time and money of an FA Cup final trip as well then! Blimey Bren, that's a bit odd mate.

[Dogtanian]

The way I see it is that it might be better to play a seeded team early.  If we fail then a lot of fan money and time is saved.  The squad can then concentrate on the domestic competitions. I do think though that seeded or unseeded we will beat whatever is put in front of us with "the Seeded teams" wanting to avoid us.

I agree that all the seeded teams will be hoping to avoid us.

However I dont think that saving time and money will be much of a consolation to people if we lose in the playoffs.  I'd be gutted if after all that hard work and incredible run of form and results to get us here we get knocked out of a competition we should be winning before it even starts.

Again...!

[AV82EC]

The way I see it is that it might be better to play a seeded team early.  If we fail then a lot of fan money and time is saved.  The squad can then concentrate on the domestic competitions. I do think though that seeded or unseeded we will beat whatever is put in front of us with "the Seeded teams" wanting to avoid us.

I agree that all the seeded teams will be hoping to avoid us.

However I dont think that saving time and money will be much of a consolation to people if we lose in the playoffs.  I'd be gutted if after all that hard work and incredible run of form and results to get us here we get knocked out of a competition we should be winning before it even starts.

Again...!

Exactly our record in European competition this century is frankly embarrassing for a club of this size.

[Dogtanian]

Our record in all cup competitions this century is absolutely shameful.

By my reckoning, 29 English clubs have been to a domestic or european cup final this century, with 14 winning a trophy.

14 clubs have contested only one final, of which only 2 (Blackburn Rovers and Swansea City) have won one.

We are 7th for finals contested, and the team to have been to the most finals this century without ever winning a cup.

Of the teams who have contested more than one final, only 2 others have failed to win any of them - Cardiff City and Southampton (both with 2 finals each).

The average win ratio is 30.2%, compared to our 0%.

Team	Finals	Wins	Win %
Chelsea	22	13	59.1
Liverpool	17	10	58.8
Man United	17	9	52.9
Arsenal	13	7	53.8
Man City	12	10	83.3
Tottenham Hotspurs	6	1	16.7
Aston Villa	4	0	0.0
Leicester City	2	2	100.0
Blackburn Rovers	1	1	100.0
Swansea City	1	1	100.0
Birmingham City	2	1	50.0
Middlesbrough	2	1	50.0
Portsmouth	2	1	50.0
West Ham United	2	1	50.0
Wigan Athletic	2	1	50.0
Cardiff City	2	0	0.0
Southampton	2	0	0.0
Bolton Wanderers	1	0	0.0
Bradford City	1	0	0.0
Crystal Palace	1	0	0.0
Everton	1	0	0.0
Fulham	1	0	0.0
Hull City	1	0	0.0
Millwall	1	0	0.0
Newcastle United	1	0	0.0
Stoke City	1	0	0.0
Sunderland	1	0	0.0
Tranmere Rovers	1	0	0.0
Watford	1	0	0.0

[Meanwood Villa]

So we've reached more finals than anyone other than the scab six despite having the worst decade in our history (2010s). Not too bad when it's put like that.

[paul_e]

So we've reached more finals than anyone other than the scab six despite having the worst decade in our history (2010s). Not too bad when it's put like that.

1 final every 5-6 years since the start of the premier league isn't bad, only winning 2 of them is annoying.