Unai Emery

[paul_e]

These 2 major strengths you are saying he has , the eye test would challenge that assertion because we haven't seen much of it this season . "Driving forward with the ball" , not seen much of this .
Bottom line is Torres has regressed this season and has been a liability defensively particularly in the big games when it mattered but also in the run of the mill games where he is easily bullied and lacks and leadership skills or comms with the rest of the backline .
I don't think it's a case of him hitting the gym either as he just seems a very poor defender wIth no real awareness of being able to read danger or cut things out .
We have been blessed down the years in B6 with some superb CB's and Torres isn't cutting it as one who will be remembered for the right reasons .

We all knoqw what you think, and it's as over the top today as it has been every day for the last few months you've felt the need to share.

[Somniloquism]

We need an eye test, states the person who saw Asensio miss two penalties against PNE.

[VillaTim]

Someone supplied the stats the other day, can we pull those up again . Pretty much kills the debate , unless you go down the laughable "confirmation bias" narrative .
playing Torres in the big games has destroyed this season . But crack on with the he can pass better than Mings propaganda.

[Olneythelonely]

Here’s an eye test

———————-C————————
——————OOPE———————
—————RSINJURYW—————
————ASADICKSPLASH———-

[VillaTim]

Hang It In The Louvre , or just here for the hard of hearing ..
Pau Torres PL
24 games
11 Wins
8 Losses
5 Draws
GF-32 GA-33
GD -1
PPG- 1.58

Tyrone Mings
14 games
9 Wins
5 Draws
0 Losses
GF-26 GA-12
GD +14
PPG- 2.28

[RamboandBruno]

Hang It In The Louvre , or just here for the hard of hearing ..
Pau Torres PL
24 games
11 Wins
8 Losses
5 Draws
GF-32 GA-33
GD -1
PPG- 1.58

Tyrone Mings
14 games
9 Wins
5 Draws
0 Losses
GF-26 GA-12
GD +14
PPG- 2.28

You’re missing the point of what Paul e was saying. But its not A and B hey, not black and white, stats with no nuance. But then I think you would love if this debate droned on and on.
Im vowing to myself I will never comment on the Mings Torres discussion ever again. Over and out

[VillaTim]

Good .
I do believe, unless Emery ditches Torres as the core centre of our backline , it will take him down as our manager . It doesn't work in the EPL .

[Ads]

Correlation is not causation.

6 of those 14 games he played in the league were against sides in the bottom half at the time. It included wins against Southampton, Leicester and Everton- all bottom 5 at the time. A win at Brentford who were 11th.

Draws with West Ham and Ipswich who were bottom 5 too, at home.

It included notable draws at Arsenal and at home to Liverpool, the later where he turned his back during the block where the goal deflected in from Trent Alexander Arnold.

It also included a win against Chelsea, where bizarrely enough he defends the Neto cross for the goal, just like absolutely everybody said we wouldn't have done if he was in Pau's shoes at Man City. Curious the amount of wisdom there was that Ty would have dived in, when he did no such thing against Chelsea.

A bit like how he let's Havertz get the run on him for Arsenal's second. Ball watching and slow to react. But he'd have definitely earned us a point at Man City.

Wins against Forest and Newcastle too- both excellent wins, although a ropey 2nd half in the former. A win at Bournemouth, although he goes off on 70 minutes and Torres does fine when we're down to 10.

He's massively at fault at Monaco and Bruges, but ultimately irrelevant.

I like Mings, but can we please for the love of fucking God stop quoting context less stats with such idiotic smugness.

[Drummond]

*edit

Nope, not getting involved, yet again.

[VillaTim]

Build that backline around Konsa / Mings , Cash and if Digne is being sold we need better than Ian who isn't good enough defending, he will go down the Moreno route as I suspect Torres will .
Some reflections and rebuild required this summer .

[RamboandBruno]

Build that backline around Konsa / Mings , Cash and if Digne is being sold we need better than Ian who isn't good enough defending, he will go down the Moreno route as I suspect Torres will .
Some reflections and rebuild required this summer .

Last word well done, round of applause, ignore everything, plough ahead, keep posting on and on and it goes on, fucking mind numbing

[eamonn]

Great post, Ads. C'mon Tim, fight back. PaulWinch has your back. Percy too. It's the closest this forum will ever get to Big Brother.

[PeterWithe]

The PL has some of the best coaches in the world, backed up with all the technical help and analysts. Maybe, just maybe, they've watched us get to 4th with Torres as first choice CB, and formulated a plan to stop him starting our attacks?

[kippaxvilla2]

I know I go against the grain here but I do think we have been better this season with Tyrone instead of Pau.  I have started to get a sense of dread (similar but not quite) to when Olsen was announced in the starting 11.  This is not necessarily correlating to me thinking that Tyrone is a better all round player than Pau.  Just that I think Pau has not been on it especially since he came back from injury.  I hope of course that the summer break puts that right.

[Dave]

I know I go against the grain here but I do think we have been better this season with Tyrone instead of Pau.

That's not really going against the grain, that's broadly in line with what most people have said.

The schism is whether Pau is a failed waster who should be rushed out the club while we instead plan our first-choice defence for the future around 32 year Mings, who has since been elevated to the status of the new Franco Baresi.