Crest Review

[pablo_picasso]

There's no prospect of that.

You are probably right...

I just think that Heck is like Ellis.

He doesn't give a fuck about the fans unless it is affecting the profit numbers for his CV.

To be fair his job is to only give a fuck about the profit numbers, that's what he's employed to improve.

No it isn't.

He is head of business operations...

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Paul is right. He's here to make more money for the club and he's doing it in numbers the club hasn't done before.

We're in a ludicrous position of challenging for the title, with the richest non-state backed owners, yet we can't chuck millions at the tilt because we are capped by our piddling income. Heck will and is fixing that.

[pablo_picasso]

There's no prospect of that.

You are probably right...

I just think that Heck is like Ellis.

He doesn't give a fuck about the fans unless it is affecting the profit numbers for his CV.

To be fair his job is to only give a fuck about the profit numbers, that's what he's employed to improve.

He's President of Business Operations, which covers more than just finances. Of course that's of paramount importance, but if he's going to stick his beak into everything, be nice if he got something right.

I know there's more too it but if we see 10% growth in income in the next year no one at the club will think he's failed, regardless of how annoyed fans are with him.

If we see 10% growth, then great, he will get credit for that.

It wont change the monumental fuck up he has made with the crest, the North Stand, etc.

[paul_e]

There's no prospect of that.

You are probably right...

I just think that Heck is like Ellis.

He doesn't give a fuck about the fans unless it is affecting the profit numbers for his CV.

To be fair his job is to only give a fuck about the profit numbers, that's what he's employed to improve.

He's President of Business Operations, which covers more than just finances. Of course that's of paramount importance, but if he's going to stick his beak into everything, be nice if he got something right.

I know there's more too it but if we see 10% growth in income in the next year no one at the club will think he's failed, regardless of how annoyed fans are with him.

If we see 10% growth, then great, he will get credit for that.

It wont change the monumental fuck up he has made with the crest, the North Stand, etc.

The bold bit is important, those things matter to you, to the club they're within his remit to make decisions on and were part of a massive uplift in turnover (in this hypothetical scenario).

[Dogtanian]

To be fair, we can't really say the North Stand re-think is a fuck-up yet, because we don't know what they're actually going to do instead.

We all want the club to do well and win things again, but that also means lots about the club is going to change to make that happen and as a consequence of that.

[pablo_picasso]

I know there's more too it but if we see 10% growth in income in the next year no one at the club will think he's failed, regardless of how annoyed fans are with him.

The bold bit is important, those things matter to you, to the club they're within his remit to make decisions on and were part of a massive uplift in turnover (in this hypothetical scenario).

Yeah, fair enough. I see what you are saying.

I hadn't read the bold bit properly... 👍

I don't like that scenario, but I get what you are saying.

To be fair, we can't really say the North Stand re-think is a fuck-up yet, because we don't know what they're actually going to do instead.

We all want the club to do well and win things again, but that also means lots about the club is going to change to make that happen and as a consequence of that.

And tbf, Dogtanian is also correct as we dont know what will become of the North Stand situation, but as it stands with the communication we have had, it looks like a fuck up atm...

I think that is 50% of why Im so pissed off.

The communication has been so shit & at times, downright insulting...

[paul_e]

To be fair, we can't really say the North Stand re-think is a fuck-up yet, because we don't know what they're actually going to do instead.

We all want the club to do well and win things again, but that also means lots about the club is going to change to make that happen and as a consequence of that.

Yep, exactly. Hecks job, at the most basic level, is to make the money that lets Emery invest in the squad, by all evidence it's something he is good at doing and it appears that both here and at the 76ers he is/was willing to piss people off to do it.

[Drummond]

In a world of instant news and information, people want (and many think they have a right) to know everything right here and now. It's like the crest and the North Stand. What in the past would have been no time at all now feels like a lifetime.

We debate things constantly here and try to fill that perceived void with our own thoughts and ideas and then blame the club for not thinking and acting as quickly as us.

[paul_e]

In a world of instant news and information, people want (and many think they have a right) to know everything right here and now. It's like the crest and the North Stand. What in the past would have been no time at all now feels like a lifetime.

We debate things constantly here and try to fill that perceived void with our own thoughts and ideas and then blame the club for not thinking and acting as quickly as us.

I mostly agree but I do also think that some of the stuff that's come out has been badly worded and badly timed.

I was fine with them changing the crest again because I don't think the Purslow one was particularly good but don't give it the bullshit about it being a 1 year thing, just say whilst it was only recently unveiled you wat to revisit it. Then when it's done make sure you have something to put out as soon it goes public on trademarks so you're in front of the noise and don't have a weird limbo situation where everyone has seen it but the club haven't actually acknowledged it.

I'm fine with the North Stand redevelopment being put on hold but don't say anything until you can put some details on the work you're going to do instead (the vague "ground improvements and extra seats from reconfiguration" bit needed to be fleshed out).

I'm fine with a 150th anniversary logo but have it presented by the club not slipping out on a random twitter account.

Clubs the size of Villa know that fans will do this and should work a lot harder to avoid it, that's the one thing in this that is behind all the ill-feeling, fans feel like the club is hiding things and treating them like fools, whether that's true or not doesn't matter, there's no need for it to have happened.

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We've had the most successful 12 months since 1981 on the pitch. Following us has never been so enjoyable in my life time. Anything that isn't geared towards helping Emery maintain that isn't worth my time being worked up about.

[German James]

Didn't Heck not see the point of changing Lerner's Custard Lion, anyway? I seem to remember he was pissed off that Purslow had agreed to redesign it?

As far Heck's concerned that yellow thing has been associated with Villa's brand for years, and that's why he didn't want to change it. The still use it on MOTD, for example. I can see the point of that, but it's a shame that it's so naff and that all that consultation was for nowt*.

*Nearly nowt: I like this season's badge so much that I may even buy something with it on... When the prices come down.

[Villan82]

They use the Lerner crest on MOTD etc because the club directed that the round badge was only for the kits

[German James]

They use the Lerner crest on MOTD etc because the club directed that the round badge was only for the kits

Ah. Thanks! I missed that.

[pablo_picasso]

They use the Lerner crest on MOTD etc because the club directed that the round badge was only for the kits

And then make the claim that it wasn't serving its purpose as a marketing tool, as they are sabotaging it with the shield...

[Risso]

Paul is right. He's here to make more money for the club and he's doing it in numbers the club hasn't done before.

We're in a ludicrous position of challenging for the title, with the richest non-state backed owners, yet we can't chuck millions at the tilt because we are capped by our piddling income. Heck will and is fixing that.

But he isn't. He's squeezing a bit more short term income out and ignoring the effects of having a much bigger North Stand with greatly improved corporate facilities in two stands in two years time, and the big effect that would have on revenue forever thereafter.

We've got stupidly rich owners as you say. They can spend what they like on doing up the ground without getting into any sort of FFP strife. If as you seem to think, they're going to build a new stand elsewhere in Birmingham, then we're probably looking at a minimum of 8-10 years to get that. If they want to knock down Villa Park and start again, depending on how they do it, then probably a minimum of 5 years, with a couple of years of playing elsewhere. To get a stadium much bigger than the 52K the new North would have given us is difficult though because of the Witton Lane housing situation. If they did go down the route of buying up all the houses, whether the residents agreed or were forced to sell, that would extend the process still further.

Either way, we're stuck with a 42K seater stadium for the medium term, with most of the facilities not being fit for purpose. But at least the club shop is going to double its footprint I suppose.