Crest Review

[paul_e]

I don't care why they decided to stop rolling out the new badge, there could be plenty of reasons and none of them change anything.

What I don't like is the moaning about 'we had a vote' and the suggestion that how we've gone about things has been a problem. The moment they considered changing plans we had shit options for this season and they will have been well aware of that. They did it anway and from there what we're doing is cheaper and risks less delays than any other option.

[Risso]

Fucking hell this badge issue is fucking boring. As I said the other day this is such a nothing else is going on in the summer subject. I’ve said before it’s a badge that I’m glad they stopped when they did to fix it for the future. And nobody outside our supporters even care now or will care in the future.

Mate, for a subject you say you've no interest in, you haven't half posted an awful lot, mainly saying you're not interested.

[Toronto Villa]

Fucking hell this badge issue is fucking boring. As I said the other day this is such a nothing else is going on in the summer subject. I’ve said before it’s a badge that I’m glad they stopped when they did to fix it for the future. And nobody outside our supporters even care now or will care in the future.

Mate, for a subject you say you've no interest in, you haven't half posted an awful lot, mainly saying you're not interested.

As I said it’s the summer. And I never said I didn’t have an interest in the subject. Maybe the constant grinding over the decision to stop it when we did and the two badge thing is getting boring. But it’s a subject about Villa. It’s that in the grand scheme of things it’s low on the things that influence how I feel about the club. It’s not a subject that makes me angry or call the club embarrassing.

[pablo_picasso]

It is not cheaper to have to create another design, once one has already been completed.

That whole process is likely to have to start again, along with the fees demanded from a design agency.

Even if its just a change of the lions direction, they will still charge a pretty penny.

[Ian.]

It is not cheaper to have to create another design, once one has already been completed.

That whole process is likely to have to start again, along with the fees demanded from a design agency.

Even if its just a change of the lions direction, they will still charge a pretty penny.

They should come to see me at Swiftprint, I’d knock one up for a decent rate.

[paul_e]

It is not cheaper to have to create another design, once one has already been completed.

That whole process is likely to have to start again, along with the fees demanded from a design agency.

Even if its just a change of the lions direction, they will still charge a pretty penny.

I didn't say it was, I said once you've already decided to start again then what we've done is cheaper than any other alternatives and, importantly doesn't result in delays for kits, etc.

[Risso]

Sir David Reginald Woodhall MA (Cantab) is correct, a Premier League rules says that clubs have to consult the fans if they’re considering changing anything to do with a club’s ‘heritage’ like the club name, badge or colours etc. Presumably this came in after a variety of wrong ‘uns tried to change Cardiff’s colours from blue to red, and Hull City’s name etc. What I can’t see is that if there’s any punishment for not consulting, or what form the consultation has to take.

As Dave has alluded to, the consultation process is very easily manipulated in any case.

[pablo_picasso]

I didn't say it was, I said once you've already decided to start again then what we've done is cheaper than any other alternatives and, importantly doesn't result in delays for kits, etc.

Have we decided to "start again"?

Restarting the whole process is not cost effective.

Not in a money sense, or in a brand sense.

But you continue to moan about others "moaning" about a situation that is a huge problem branding wise.

If you don't think it is a problem, thats great.

But as a graphic designer, I understand the value of brand visuals for a company...

However, as said before, we wont really know what is happening until they tell us what is happening, so thats me out again...

[dave.woodhall]

Sir David Reginald Woodhall MA (Cantab) is correct, a Premier League rules says that clubs have to consult the fans if they’re considering changing anything to do with a club’s ‘heritage’ like the club name, badge or colours etc. Presumably this came in after a variety of wrong ‘uns tried to change Cardiff’s colours from blue to red, and Hull City’s name etc. What I can’t see is that if there’s any punishment for not consulting, or what form the consultation has to take.

As Dave has alluded to, the consultation process is very easily manipulated in any case.

Our consultation process was nominated for a Premier League consultation award. I kid you not.

[Risso]

Well, so far the whole thing seems to have been binned off on the say so of Heck after 5 minutes in the job. He’d better come up with something decent next year…

[pauliewalnuts]

Well, so far the whole thing seems to have been binned off on the say so of Heck after 5 minutes in the job. He’d better come up with something decent next year…

Yeah, and I doubt 'fan alignment' is going to be increased in that process. It'll be "Chris Heck alignment" plus some half arsed pretending asking us what we think.

This whole thing is really simple.

They asked us what we liked, we said 'we like that'. They then said yeah, you do, let's roll with that. Heck decides he doesn't like it.

All of that up to that point is fine. If it's not going to work commercially for him, I'd rather he killed it off now too.

And this is what I was getting at when i was replying to TV - suggesting there was "no fan alignment" is utter nonsense. We played along, we played our part with that process.

We won't be getting any say next time around, which tbh, I am not even that arsed about.

But the club then made this is bit stupid by pretending it was about honouring (yawn) 1982 (obviously, on that landmark 41st anniversary) and yada yadaing about it. That's bad enough but to hear fans buying into this retrospective rubbish pisses me off.

Just say you don't like it and you're killing it, but don't treat us like morons and act like having two simultaneous COMPLETELY DIFFERENT crests is normal, or something they planned. It isn't.

In short - it's not even them doing it which annoys me, it is the subsequent 'we think you're gullible idiots and you'll swallow this' that irks me.

[paul_e]

I didn't say it was, I said once you've already decided to start again then what we've done is cheaper than any other alternatives and, importantly doesn't result in delays for kits, etc.

Have we decided to "start again"?

Restarting the whole process is not cost effective.

Not in a money sense, or in a brand sense.

But you continue to moan about others "moaning" about a situation that is a huge problem branding wise.

If you don't think it is a problem, thats great.

But as a graphic designer, I understand the value of brand visuals for a company...

However, as said before, we wont really know what is happening until they tell us what is happening, so thats me out again...

Start again, iterate further, expand upon, whatever phrasing you want to use it all comes down to Purslow left, Heck arrived and we stopped the rollout of a new badge halfway through production.

We don't know what his reasoning is, and won't get any more clues until the new branding is presented for consultation (as is required by the league).

Again you skipping around the point I'm making though, given that has happened (whether you like it or not) would you prefer:
We carry on with the rebrand anyway.
We completely abandon the rebrand and delay the kit launch, etc to have everything reverted to the old brand.
We spin some nonsense to justify a different branding on the kit and some limited merchandise that was already produced but stop on everything else.

They're the options we had, nothing else. I'm fed up of people moaning about the 'brand identity' and fan vote because they ignore the reality that the bottom option of those 3 is quite clearly the least bad in the short and long-term.

[ChicagoLion]

It getting it “right” is massively subjective. It has to align with the objectives of the club and the fans. “Right” will always be a matter of opinion. And I am glad we didn’t commit to something we would have had to stick with for a long time. The new round badge wasn’t universally approved, lacked supporter alignment and the club changed leadership. Stopping it now was absolutely the right thing to do.

I don’t think it is subjective, I think when it comes down to preference about things like kit and badges it’s pretty obvious for the majority.

Majority means it’s subjective as it means there will be a minority that won’t like it for whatever reason. For example I don’t give a fuck star or no star. That’s not the same for everyone.

Maybe look up up the words subjective, objective and majority in an English dictionary.

Excuse me? Subjective means it considers opinions which means if there is a majority it is a percentage of opinions that have been considered vs something rooted in fact. It’s not me that me that needs to look it up. The badge, kits are all subjective. It’s not a fact that it’s good or not. It’s always going to be an opinion.

Woosh,

[Smirker]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Rangers have two crests. The scroll appears on the kit and the roundel is for media.

They both look great though.

[tomd2103]

Well, so far the whole thing seems to have been binned off on the say so of Heck after 5 minutes in the job. He’d better come up with something decent next year…

But the club then made this is bit stupid by pretending it was about honouring (yawn) 1982 (obviously, on that landmark 41st anniversary) and yada yadaing about it. That's bad enough but to hear fans buying into this retrospective rubbish pisses me off.

I do wonder if they believe or have been told that though - that the fans want a return to that badge as it is the one we had when we won the league and European Cup?  If that is the case, then I could see why they might not like that, as it represents looking back to the past. 

Personally, I don't think that is the case and although there might be some nostalgia around the round badge (I've never really linked it specifically with 1982), I just think it is a better design than the ones that have followed it.