Crest Review

[Toronto Villa]

I can understand why some are upset and feel it’s embarrassing. I can’t gather the energy to give a shit either way.

‘Elvis was a hero to most, but he didn’t mean shit to me. ‘

I’m right there with you. Each to their own and I’m not going to tell anyone what to find important or not. But for men in the end, it’s just a badge. Whatever we end up with will have lion in it facing one way or the other. It’s always been about the team for me. My clocks ticking and I’ve been around long enough to see us at the top, the odd splash of success here and there, with hope of something special gloriously dashed. But mostly mundane, turgid struggle and football that should have made me quit many times over. So for me, make us proud on the pitch, and everything else ultimately is a long way off in terms of importance.

[London Villan]

It faced left long before it was on the shirt in the 50s.

It was used on many Villa things including programmes.

Here is one from 1950 as an example.

And on the Trinity, from the 1920s.

[algy]

One thing that struck me with the design was that the original remit IIRC was a badge to work across multiple platforms (web, print, ...).

I  like the new badge design, particularly with star removed and the lion facing left. However, I do wonder if you've got - say - one of those icons on a tab for a web page, how well it translates to that. Suspect not at all.

I'd assume Heck's remit covers branding, and that he'll be looking for something that's simple, easy to recognise, and doesn't necessarily need to contain any letters (think Apple/Nike/..) rather than something that appeals to a few million folk from Birmingham and the surrounding area (who I guess care more about which way the lion faces than your average punter from Seoul or Accra)

[paul_e]

One thing that struck me with the design was that the original remit IIRC was a badge to work across multiple platforms (web, print, ...).

I  like the new badge design, particularly with star removed and the lion facing left. However, I do wonder if you've got - say - one of those icons on a tab for a web page, how well it translates to that. Suspect not at all.

I'd assume Heck's remit covers branding, and that he'll be looking for something that's simple, easy to recognise, and doesn't necessarily need to contain any letters (think Apple/Nike/..) rather than something that appeals to a few million folk from Birmingham and the surrounding area (who I guess care more about which way the lion faces than your average punter from Seoul or Accra)

They're called favicons and the 'new' badge does indeed look really shit when scaled down to one of them. Those along with app icons on mobile and a few other uses where something small and simple is needed are why branding now isn't about a single crest that works everywhere but rather about creating a range of options that are all recognisable as part of the brand.

[Risso]

They're called favicons and the 'new' badge does indeed look really shit when scaled down to one of them. Those along with app icons on mobile and a few other uses where something small and simple is needed are why branding now isn't about a single crest that works everywhere but rather about creating a range of options that are all recognisable as part of the brand.

Liverpool's is quite a good example I think, they've got the main badge, but then the instantly recognisable Liver Bird which they take out of the badge and use on the kits etc.

[paul_e]

They're called favicons and the 'new' badge does indeed look really shit when scaled down to one of them. Those along with app icons on mobile and a few other uses where something small and simple is needed are why branding now isn't about a single crest that works everywhere but rather about creating a range of options that are all recognisable as part of the brand.

Liverpool's is quite a good example I think, they've got the main badge, but then the instantly recognisable Liver Bird which they take out of the badge and use on the kits etc.

Yep, Liverpool and Arsenal in particular have done a great job on their brand mangement. I know it's not interesting or exciting for most people but for me getting this right is very near to the top of the list of things that will show we're acting like a big club.

[FatSam]

After seeing all the previous historical badges, why the fuck would you turn the lion around to face the other way?

That's what they said in 1956.

I don't really mind which way he's facing tbh.

But the 1956 crest had been on the Trinity Road stand since 1923 hadn’t it.

Edit- sorry, seen this point already made multiple times.

[chrisw1]

They're called favicons and the 'new' badge does indeed look really shit when scaled down to one of them. Those along with app icons on mobile and a few other uses where something small and simple is needed are why branding now isn't about a single crest that works everywhere but rather about creating a range of options that are all recognisable as part of the brand.

Liverpool's is quite a good example I think, they've got the main badge, but then the instantly recognisable Liver Bird which they take out of the badge and use on the kits etc.

I think it's the perfect example.  I really like the way they use it on the kit and I thought something similar with a lion would look fantastic.  We also need to do it first, other clubs have a lion and it would be a shame if they beat us to the pinch on this.

[pablo_picasso]

One thing that struck me with the design was that the original remit IIRC was a badge to work across multiple platforms (web, print, ...).

I  like the new badge design, particularly with star removed and the lion facing left. However, I do wonder if you've got - say - one of those icons on a tab for a web page, how well it translates to that. Suspect not at all.

I'd assume Heck's remit covers branding, and that he'll be looking for something that's simple, easy to recognise, and doesn't necessarily need to contain any letters (think Apple/Nike/..) rather than something that appeals to a few million folk from Birmingham and the surrounding area (who I guess care more about which way the lion faces than your average punter from Seoul or Accra)

They're called favicons and the 'new' badge does indeed look really shit when scaled down to one of them. Those along with app icons on mobile and a few other uses where something small and simple is needed are why branding now isn't about a single crest that works everywhere but rather about creating a range of options that are all recognisable as part of the brand.

Im wondering if we were talking at cross purposes previously.

Are you talking about the breaking up of the crest elements, so we can use it for things like digital, etc? Along with options with text, with the circle, without the circle, etc?

Because the lion is taken out of the crest as a standalone piece in the video where it explains the design.

Along with other options breaking up the elements to be used as, for another example, on the stadium with lion & text with no circle, which is shown mocked up on the stadium in the video.

https://www.avfc.co.uk/crest-vote/

3:04 on the vid shows the elements broken up & used separately. 3:08 shows it on the stadium.

Like I said, there are elements that I would change of the design personally. And I hope they fix the things that irritate me.

But when I spoke previously, I was already thinking about the elements being broken up for other uses because I remembered the examples from the video.

[paul_e]

One thing that struck me with the design was that the original remit IIRC was a badge to work across multiple platforms (web, print, ...).

I  like the new badge design, particularly with star removed and the lion facing left. However, I do wonder if you've got - say - one of those icons on a tab for a web page, how well it translates to that. Suspect not at all.

I'd assume Heck's remit covers branding, and that he'll be looking for something that's simple, easy to recognise, and doesn't necessarily need to contain any letters (think Apple/Nike/..) rather than something that appeals to a few million folk from Birmingham and the surrounding area (who I guess care more about which way the lion faces than your average punter from Seoul or Accra)

They're called favicons and the 'new' badge does indeed look really shit when scaled down to one of them. Those along with app icons on mobile and a few other uses where something small and simple is needed are why branding now isn't about a single crest that works everywhere but rather about creating a range of options that are all recognisable as part of the brand.

Im wondering if we were talking at cross purposes previously.

Are you talking about the breaking up of the crest elements, so we can use it for things like digital, etc? Along with options with text, with the circle, without the circle, etc?

Because the lion is taken out of the crest as a standalone piece in the video where it explains the design.

Along with other options breaking up the elements to be used as, for another example, on the stadium with lion & text with no circle, which is shown mocked up on the stadium in the video.

https://www.avfc.co.uk/crest-vote/

3:04 on the vid shows the elements broken up & used separately. 3:08 shows it on the stadium.

Like I said, there are elements that I would change of the design personally. And I hope they fix the things that irritate me.

But when I spoke previously, I was already thinking about the elements being broken up for other uses because I remembered the examples from the video.

That was the point I was making when I was posting about the 76ers, posts you disagreed with! Ever since this conversation started my view has been that Heck doesn't feel like this crest works as part of doing that, which is why we've backed away from it.

[stevo_st]

My sons football club Hanworth Villa are going through a club rebrand at the moment.

We were consulted on a single fully worked up option which consisted of a PDF document of about 20 pages with NO text / PR waffle.
Effectively a graphical storey-board which was able to explain where the inspiration had come from to form the new crest and simplified motifs, showing examples of how it would look on generic backdrops such as basic home and away kits (crest on home top / motif on away and shorts), hats, water bottles, bags, signage board, webpages etc

It was great, we had minor comments / questions, but it was the start of unifying the club with the new ‘brand’.

This is what the club should have done, rather than the usual PR spiel, showing two completely different standalone options, without being fully worked through, and avoided divide the fan base into camps

[pablo_picasso]

That was the point I was making when I was posting about the 76ers, posts you disagreed with! Ever since this conversation started my view has been that Heck doesn't feel like this crest works as part of doing that, which is why we've backed away from it.

Yeah, we were talking at cross purposes then.

And I have calmed down a little, lol.

I assumed that everybody knew that we could break up our new crest elements because of what was on the video on the website when it was released.

And I assumed everybody would know that I knew of this.

That is poor communication on my part & for that, I apologise.

Im not sure I see the same concerns Heck has regarding the elements of the design as it is fairly simply already, other than removing the star. Although small stars weren't a problem for the 76'ers logo as they had several. Or maybe the the way the actual lions is designed with the shaded elements. Some of that could be lost when resized. (And switch it back facing the other way as this upsets a lot of fans).

Don't get me wrong, Im still unhappy with how this has played out as communication could have been better, but it is what it is.

I am now hoping that with the new evaluation we can keep large elements of the new/current/temporary design & tweak a few others, like for example, removing the star, switching the lions direction, etc. I wouldn't be adverse to seeing a standalone lion with zero text for the crest as an alternative either.

And again, I understand that the crests elements can be used separately as a cohesive recognisable piece of the brand.

Although, while I do recognise the actual specific logo itself wasn't what you were talking about, I will state that Im not a fan of that newest 76ers logo. And even more so after watching his lecture (which is on Hecks thread) & seeing what they had previously to what it is now.

That is be a bit of a concern to me personally, although the elements of what we have to work with is a far stronger starting point.

I suppose all we can do is wait & see what happens now.

[Smithy]

I suspect if he likes his simple, recognisable branding, we'll probably end up with something like this over the next year or two.  And I say that at someone who really likes the round retro badge, and who hoped it would be ours for a while.

[Brazilian Villain]

I suspect if he likes his simple, recognisable branding, we'll probably end up with something like this over the next year or two.  And I say that at someone who really likes the round retro badge, and who hoped it would be ours for a while.

Not blaming you, but that looks absolutely terrible especially with the sponsor's logo in the mix as well.

[Smithy]

I suspect if he likes his simple, recognisable branding, we'll probably end up with something like this over the next year or two.  And I say that at someone who really likes the round retro badge, and who hoped it would be ours for a while.

Not blaming you, but that looks absolutely terrible especially with the sponsor's logo in the mix as well.

Oh of course. I don't LIKE it at all, I just suspect that's the direction we'll be heading now, given Chris Heck's comments about the evolution of the 76ers branding. Ala Liverpool and Spurs. I think the patterned shirt is also a mistake that I hope will be rectified before they change the crest.

I actually really like the round logo we have now, but I think it's an emotional attachment as it reminds me of the team I started supporting as a young kid.