Man U vs Aston Villa pre match thread - FA Cup 3rd Rd - Monday, Jan 10th

[Martyn Smith]

At least if we do go out then with Burnley and Leeds both gone already we will not be short of a league game to reschedule for 5 Feb.

With the amount of COVID related postponements waiting to be rescheduled I can't see the justification any more in keeping 29 Jan clear. But that's for another thread...

[Sexual Ealing]

Who is the actual ref for this?

Alexander Ferguson, Govan.

[ChicagoLion]

Who is the actual ref for this?

Alexander Ferguson, Govan.

I think he and a couple of bottles of Cotes du Rhône  are on VAR.

[Footy-Vill]

I can only see SG keeping it all compact and asking "his players" (not his players!) to be aggressive.
If it's not the result we want I do hope people aren't selective and only focus on the positives it's to be fair and balanced and observe the problematic nature Villa are approaching matches.

I just want Villa to have a go and win the game in an attacking way but I don't know if that's going to happen and think it's fair to say and want to see if others notice we're a little goal and creative shy because our main hub of creativity are from Cash and occasionally Targett or set pieces.

I hoping in time that's going to evolve and also improve
But it's fair to say for all the nice football there isn't much goal attempts going on Vs Chelsea , Liverpool and Man City or am I wildly inaccurate to say we played within ourselves and a containing job.
If not so then I don't see much change in tactic today which makes it immensely frustrating

So what I'm asking for someone explain or show to me otherwise how we exactly plan to win this today with way our system is.
Because Man Utd are very very beatable.
I can't stand it if we lose again in FA Cup 3rd round
I just feel annoying pessimistic based on how the new manager likes to approach the sterner tests.

Apologies.

[Dave]

Nice tactical write-up on F365:

Football matches are psychological battles as much as they are tactical or technical, and you could hardly find two clubs further apart mentally than Manchester United and Aston Villa this week. One club faces mass mutiny, an extraordinary leak detailing the extent of player power at Old Trafford and a crisis that reportedly has 17 (seventeen) players wanting out. The other is cackling maniacally as they welcome Philippe Coutinho on board.

Coutinho won’t be ready for this one, not least because he tested positive for Covid-19 just over a week ago, but his arrival will no doubt give Steven Gerrard’s side a much-needed boost after the strangely lacklustre performance against Brentford last weekend. After receiving a rollicking from the manager, and seeing the club’s ambition in action in the transfer market, we can anticipate a sharp upturn in energy levels in Monday night’s FA Cup third-round tie.

The same cannot be said of Man Utd. When Ralf Rangnick arrived he would have expected a shred of humility and patience from the squad, but instead they have already informed sources they are ‘underwhelmed’ and ‘unimpressed’ by his training and tactics, despite famously innovative tactician and coach Rangnick only having a handful of Covid-hit sessions in his first month at the helm.

It reveals a toxicity that runs much deeper than we had presumed, highlighting just how indulged the players were under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer – whose coaching deficiencies were supposed to be counter-balanced by the atmosphere he created. The Daily Mail suggests things are as bleak and cliquey as they were in the final days of Jose Mourinho.

Villa genuinely could win this game on good vibes alone, on working harder and playing with more energy against a team close to rock bottom. But there are plenty of tactical reasons to assume Villa have the upper hand, too, such has been the disastrous nature of Rangnick’s 4-2-2-2 formation.

The basic idea is for United to play quickly in the transition, to press hard and play in sharp vertical lines as soon as the ball is won, taking advantage of the opponent’s disorganised shape to overwhelm with a front four making runs on the shoulder of the defensive line. That hasn’t worked largely because United aren’t pressing or remaining compressed themselves (which until this week seemed a reflection of a lack of training time, but now feels like an attitude problem).

However, it is also the result of Rangnick’s 4-2-2-2 being unsuited to a super-club forced to dominate possession and territory. He has never managed a club this big before, and is yet to realise the Germanic tactical philosophy he helped to invent needs adapting to the biggest stage.

It is a concern also developing at Chelsea, where Thomas Tuchel is finding his 3-4-2-1 shape limiting when his team are forced to hold possession for long periods. Jurgen Klopp had to adapt, too, after a chaotic first year. The problem for Rangnick is that he doesn’t have that time – and he barely has any support, having been undermined by the club’s vague offer of a ‘consultancy’ role at the end of the season.

But he needs to change and he needs to change now. Opponents tend to sit deep and narrow for long periods against United, making the 4-2-2-2 an awkward shape for building through the lines; under Rangnick the inside forwards peel wide to find space, and as Scott McTominay and Nemanja Matic drop to receive the first pass they are therefore left with an empty space through the middle. United form an O-shape around that two and four, leading to aimless passing down the flanks.

Villa will be able to force this relatively easily, given Gerrard’s Christmas tree formation has two number 10s behind a striker. These two players will sit on Matic and McTominay and block the path into the two strikers, making that O-shape all the more futile; expect more frustration for the hosts.

Off the ball, United’s problems run even deeper. The 4-2-2-2 leaves huge gaps through the middle and between players, especially when it’s as decompressed as it has been at Man Utd, and as Wolves showed last Monday it is easy for the wide players to simply dribble diagonally through the lines, breaking into open areas. Villa may lack the pace to do this, although the bursting runs of Jacob Ramsey have been impressive recently and there is hope of counter-attacks launched through the young midfielder.

United will be relieved to see John McGinn suspended, mind.

And so Villa’s best chance of success is actually during sustained periods of pressure, not counters. Wolves dominated in the first half thanks to their 3-4-2-1 formation and United’s wingers rarely tracking back; with Ruben Neves and Joao Moutinho occupying McTominay and Matic, Trincao and Daniel Podence were free to dominate the game. In a similar role, Emiliano Buendia and Anwar El Ghazi could flourish as they look to slip Danny Ings in behind.

Villa appear to hold all the cards, then, although it is certainly possible that United adapt significantly following the damaging defeat to Wolves. Rangnick switched to a 3-4-2-1 in the second half, showing he is open to changing formation, while the introduction of Bruno Fernandes gave United more urgency. In the first half the forwards kept coming towards the ball, whereas in the second they made frequent runs of the sort Rangnick demands.

With Tyrone Mings still out, Villa could be susceptible to Fernandes and the movement of United’s forwards – if Rangnick switches to a formation that is easier for these under-coached and over-indulged players to understand.

[Richard E]

I though McGinn was suspended for Saturday rather than tonight?

[Richard]

Also the writer thinks Mings is still out

[Dave]

He's got a lot on his plate with the ManYoo write up to worry about minor details like that. Also think it's unlikely that El Ghazi will start.

[Brazilian Villain]

Nice tactical write-up on F365:

All well and good but proper journalists have determined that we'll lose 2-1.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-aston-villa-simulated-22679758

[Risso]

Nice tactical write-up on F365:

All well and good but proper journalists have determined that we'll lose 2-1.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-aston-villa-simulated-22679758

They do that with everything now, games, transfers, the lot.

[Drummond]

Nice tactical write-up on F365:

All well and good but proper journalists have determined that we'll lose 2-1.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-aston-villa-simulated-22679758

That is toe-curlingly, embarrassingly shite.

[Drummond]

                   Martinez

Cash       Konsa      Mings      Targett

      Luiz        Sanson      Ramsey

Buendia              Watkins

         Ings

[Ad@m]

Nice tactical write-up on F365:

All well and good but proper journalists have determined that we'll lose 2-1.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-aston-villa-simulated-22679758

They do that with everything now, games, transfers, the lot.

Welcome to modern football!  Jesus!

[Jon Crofts]

Nice tactical write-up on F365:

All well and good but proper journalists have determined that we'll lose 2-1.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-aston-villa-simulated-22679758

What age group or demographic is that shite aimed at? Is it that they know their readership is mainly 12 year olds in China?

[PaulTheVillan]

Nice tactical write-up on F365:

All well and good but proper journalists have determined that we'll lose 2-1.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-aston-villa-simulated-22679758

What age group or demographic is that shite aimed at? Is it that they know their readership is mainly 12 year olds in China?

Same as Gary Glitter