FFP

[LeeB]

There's a whiff of

The thing is though, most of the stuff is out there in the public domain. I mentioned before the Mancini contracts. One with Man City, an identical one with a UAE company for something like £4m for 4 days 'consultancy work'. They're guilty, and there's plenty of evidence. Find them guilty, relegate them to League 2, ban them from signing players for three years then let them appeal if they want to.

I agree when you look at the evidence out there the whole thing stinks. The thing I can't get my around is exactly why the Premier League have gone so two footed on this with that amount of charges? If it turns out their case is built on similar evidence to the UEFA case that went to CAS then I'm struggling to understand how they could return a guilty verdict here? Add in the political element and it seems even less likely. Surely the Premier League are going to have to win this to save their reputation and avoid an independent regulator coming in down the line? It seems like a big gamble.

UEFA has a statute of limitations, which is why they, in effect, got off with those charges. The PL doesn't.

Weirdly for Europe as well, I believe appeals are done by three people, one on behalf of the prosecution, one on the defence and a third "independent". For the third one, it was someone from the same law firm who were representing Citeh in the defence......

It's some of Cerefin's mates from school isn't it? That's pretty much everyone at Uefa now.

[Dogtanian]

Surely it would cause lots of issues if the transfer window and the FFP deadline were on the same day...

A year would drop off your FFP calculations and free up some budget on a day where you now couldn't add to your squad until January?

I can see in the business finance world the two ending together would make things clearer, but in a sports league where you can only buy players twice a year, it wouldn't make much sense.

[ChicagoLion]

I know they've broken the rules, I just think the rule concerned is kind of bollocks.

Yeah it is, but taking each case on its merits nobody forced them to sign the gazillion players that ended up with them needing to flog Johnson to balance the books.

But they finished the transfer window within the rules! Plenty of teams buy in anticipation of a sale to balance it. The exact timing of it is arbitrary and doesn't line up at all with the actual opportunity afforded the club to get their p&s in order.

Like, what is the purpose of this rule, is my point. Happens so often in bureaucracy - enforcing it like this shows that the purpose is just the enforcement of rules, where it should be what it claims to be, i.e. profitability and sustainability. Forest flew a little close to the sun but got there in the end, and a sensible system of rules would say that's the end of it. Instead, beady-eyed, Excel-soulled pen pushers tell them that they can't actually be profitable or sustainable, despite what reality says, because the rule is actually stupid and the rule must be applied.

Like I say, I get that Forest broke the rules and they shouldn't have and their should be a sanction. I just find the idea that they're the biggest bad guys in this situation, when these same rules have allowed Chelsea to spend however much it is on being shite, a little much.

But any rule based on financial performance has to have period beginning and end date.
If not, it’s not a rule.

[tomd2103]

Just been listening to a financial expert on Talksport talking about FFP.  He was saying that it is highly likely that Everton are going to breach for 23/24 as well, but they have hired some top lawyer to represent them.  He also said that Forest haven't got a leg to stand on really.

I can see all of this blowing up big time to be honest.  Also think there will be increasing pressure for something to be done about Manchester City, as if they win trophies again this season with that hanging over them, it raises huge questions.

[ChicagoLion]

Just been listening to a financial expert on Talksport talking about FFP.  He was saying that it is highly likely that Everton are going to breach for 23/24 as well, but they have hired some top lawyer to represent them.  He also said that Forest haven't got a lefmg to stand on really.

I can see alm of this blowing up big time to be honest.  Also think there will be increasing pressure for something to be done about Manchester City, as if they win trophies again this season with that hanging over them, it raises huge questions.

Yes, the fact that it brings the spotlight back on them is the best part of this.

[DB]

Do the PL really want City punished, therefore admitting all their trophies and all the entertainment they have bought since 2008, was basically done by cheating. That would seriously damage the PL brand???
It’s all very dark and a lot of unknowns. Added with the Everton and Forest situation, it’s all just a big mess.

[VillaTim]

I can see all of this blowing up big time to be honest.  Also think there will be increasing pressure for something to be done about Manchester City, as if they win trophies again this season with that hanging over them, it raises huge questions.

they were allowed to carry on and win the treble last season with all this hanging over them too.
Each and every one of their performances at the moment should be caveated by the fact that it may be fraudulent.

[DennisHodgetts]

Is it not time for some fan power regarding City from the other 19 clubs? Perhaps coordinated chanting of Cheats, Icelandic style, every time they appear at another stadium. Hard for the Sky/TNT/Talksport apologists or anyone in power to ignore.

[eamonn]

Excel-soulled pen-pushers are some of my best pals (they take a while to loosen-up, admittedly).

[PeterWithesShin]

I don't have much sympathy for Forest. Each season during the financial period there's 2 transfer windows. They wanted a 3rd. And what was their plan if Johnson had done a Mings and been crocked for the season 30 mins into the first game of the season as they were playing him, or a Buendia and it happened in training. They gambled by buying countless players and they lost.

[LeeS]

Do the PL really want City punished, therefore admitting all their trophies and all the entertainment they have bought since 2008, was basically done by cheating. That would seriously damage the PL brand???
It’s all very dark and a lot of unknowns. Added with the Everton and Forest situation, it’s all just a big mess.

The PL isnt an entity, it is 20 separate clubs with their own interests. Almost all of them would love to see Man City knocked off their perch. Especially those that have complied with the rules

[Smithy]

Do the PL really want City punished, therefore admitting all their trophies and all the entertainment they have bought since 2008, was basically done by cheating. That would seriously damage the PL brand???
It’s all very dark and a lot of unknowns. Added with the Everton and Forest situation, it’s all just a big mess.

The PL isnt an entity, it is 20 separate clubs with their own interests. Almost all of them would love to see Man City knocked off their perch. Especially those that have complied with the rules

I also think any PL officials, such as Richard Masters, will position themselves as "fellow victims" of Man City's financial crimes.  "The cheated us, too"

[pablo_picasso]

Does the just turned 18 year old Ned Flanders RB signing count towards the academy or actual FFP figures?

[Gareth]

I don't have much sympathy for Forest. Each season during the financial period there's 2 transfer windows. They wanted a 3rd. And what was their plan if Johnson had done a Mings and been crocked for the season 30 mins into the first game of the season as they were playing him, or a Buendia and it happened in training. They gambled by buying countless players and they lost.

100% this.

There transfer approach last year was largely a necessary one because they had got promoted on back of 4 / 5 loans and they only had 1 or 2 capable of the step up but they knew the rules and had to stay within those rules.  They had means because the owner also owns Olympiakos to move players about.

[DB]

Do the PL really want City punished, therefore admitting all their trophies and all the entertainment they have bought since 2008, was basically done by cheating. That would seriously damage the PL brand???
It’s all very dark and a lot of unknowns. Added with the Everton and Forest situation, it’s all just a big mess.

The PL isnt an entity, it is 20 separate clubs with their own interests. Almost all of them would love to see Man City knocked off their perch. Especially those that have complied with the rules

Question and point still stands.