FFP

[The Edge]

How much did they pay for Mudryk? if ever there was an overated player it's him.

I give you Mr Harry Maguire. A snip at 80 million quid

[VillaTim]

How much did they pay for Mudryk? if ever there was an overated player it's him.

I give you Mr Harry Maguire. A snip at 80 million quid

He had a few decent seasons at least

[The Edge]

If shown to be guilty, the only sanctions that would have any effect on Manchester City or Chelsea would be a really long European ban (5 years-plus), multiple relegations or a multi-season Premier League ban. All of which would be fun but probably legally unenforceable. Unless it's 10 points for every season or breach.

Even so, they'd have to dock Man City 60 points for them to be even close to a relegation fight.

Man City will get away scott free. They have the best legal team on the planet that have tied everything in knots which will take years to untangle apparently.

[Simon Page]

That wouldn't be a shock. I'm actually really iffy about deciding sporting events in the courts or tribunals. This feels a bit like tax law, where everything is so complex that the opportunities to create opaque and entangled - but probably legal - workarounds are infinite.

If the football authorities really wanted to stop the cheating or bending of rules, salary caps, squad sizes including loans, multiple ownership bans, real-time transparency and the like would be the way to go. Much fairer than docking a club points seasons after the offence.

[VillaTim]

when clubs get fined where does the money go and how is it spent ?

[Smithy]

That wouldn't be a shock. I'm actually really iffy about deciding sporting events in the courts or tribunals. This feels a bit like tax law, where everything is so complex that the opportunities to create opaque and entangled - but probably legal - workarounds are infinite.

If the football authorities really wanted to stop the cheating or bending of rules, salary caps, squad sizes including loans, multiple ownership bans, real-time transparency and the like would be the way to go. Much fairer than docking a club points seasons after the offence.

I haven't actually read the FFP rules, so I don't know how complex the rules are, or how tightly defined they are, but it does feel a bit like Formula One. In that the the rules are defined, and then the teams find as many creative ways as they can circumvent them while "technically" still being on the right side.  These things often end up the courts, because there is no other way to settle a disagreement between two parties who have a fundamentally different interpretations of the words on a page.

I don't even really properly understand the "breaches" that Man City have been accused of, only that there are a lot of them.  They certainly give the impression they've found a legal loophole that others haven't exploited. I hope they're wrong.

[VillaTim]

i know one of the big ones for Ci$y was they were paying players / manager etc partly through other companies in Abu Dhabi Du etc . Totally against FFP rules  (i think)

[ChicagoLion]

That wouldn't be a shock. I'm actually really iffy about deciding sporting events in the courts or tribunals. This feels a bit like tax law, where everything is so complex that the opportunities to create opaque and entangled - but probably legal - workarounds are infinite.

If the football authorities really wanted to stop the cheating or bending of rules, salary caps, squad sizes including loans, multiple ownership bans, real-time transparency and the like would be the way to go. Much fairer than docking a club points seasons after the offence.

I haven't actually read the FFP rules, so I don't know how complex the rules are, or how tightly defined they are, but it does feel a bit like Formula One. In that the the rules are defined, and then the teams find as many creative ways as they can circumvent them while "technically" still being on the right side.  These things often end up the courts, because there is no other way to settle a disagreement between two parties who have a fundamentally different interpretations of the words on a page.

I don't even really properly understand the "breaches" that Man City have been accused of, only that there are a lot of them.  They certainly give the impression they've found a legal loophole that others haven't exploited. I hope they're wrong.

Hardly loopholes, there are blatant breaches of the rules. They weren’t even subtle about it.

[paul_e]

That wouldn't be a shock. I'm actually really iffy about deciding sporting events in the courts or tribunals. This feels a bit like tax law, where everything is so complex that the opportunities to create opaque and entangled - but probably legal - workarounds are infinite.

If the football authorities really wanted to stop the cheating or bending of rules, salary caps, squad sizes including loans, multiple ownership bans, real-time transparency and the like would be the way to go. Much fairer than docking a club points seasons after the offence.

I haven't actually read the FFP rules, so I don't know how complex the rules are, or how tightly defined they are, but it does feel a bit like Formula One. In that the the rules are defined, and then the teams find as many creative ways as they can circumvent them while "technically" still being on the right side.  These things often end up the courts, because there is no other way to settle a disagreement between two parties who have a fundamentally different interpretations of the words on a page.

I don't even really properly understand the "breaches" that Man City have been accused of, only that there are a lot of them.  They certainly give the impression they've found a legal loophole that others haven't exploited. I hope they're wrong.

Man City and Chelsea are both, in the main, accused of making payments to players outside their officials contracts. This isn't loopholes or remotely subtle, they've done things like booking a player as a 'consultant' for something and then paying them vast sums for the service despite there being no evidence that the player either did anything or would even be capable of doing what they were paid for. They know it's dodgy as fuck because the payments made from a 3rd party and went to either another 3rd party or to a hidden/off-shore \accounts.

It's pretty much the exact same trick that Saracens tried to pull off in the rugby who were punished with a points deduction that was designed to ensure relegation, that's a better precedent to look at than what has happened with Everton.

[VillaTim]

I hope any penalties coming Ci$y's way are also applied retrospectively stripping them of all trophies and also then a series of lawsuits from other clubs follow.

[Hookeysmith]

I can't see any sanction other than a "waste of time fine" can or will be implemented.
Fine them £100m they will ask card or cheque...it would be pointless.

Ban them from Europe and I would imagine that would mean Pep  would piss off which would mean they are not so powerful anymore.

Talk of taking away previous honours is just a ludicrous pipe dream

[Meanwood Villa]

Ban them from Europe and I would imagine that would mean Pep  would piss off which would mean they are not so powerful anymore.

Mate of mine who's a Liverpool fan reckons Pep has priced himself out of any other job on the planet by taking the Abu Dhabi cash for so long and I reckon he's right. Maybe PSG or Saudi League might match his pay but no one else could.

That shit he's come out with before about him being promised by the owners they weren't cheating. What a load of bollocks. Trying to paint himself as someone with morals. He's up to his neck in it as much as anyone, the colossal bell end.

[ChicagoLion]

Ban them from Europe and I would imagine that would mean Pep  would piss off which would mean they are not so powerful anymore.

Mate of mine who's a Liverpool fan reckons Pep has priced himself out of any other job on the planet by taking the Abu Dhabi cash for so long and I reckon he's right. Maybe PSG or Saudi League might match his pay but no one else could.

That shit he's come out with before about him being promised by the owners they weren't cheating. What a load of bollocks. Trying to paint himself as someone with morals. He's up to his neck in it as much as anyone, the colossal bell end.

Yep, he has nailed his flag to the mast.

[IFWaters]

Ban them from Europe and I would imagine that would mean Pep  would piss off which would mean they are not so powerful anymore.

Mate of mine who's a Liverpool fan reckons Pep has priced himself out of any other job on the planet by taking the Abu Dhabi cash for so long and I reckon he's right. Maybe PSG or Saudi League might match his pay but no one else could.

That shit he's come out with before about him being promised by the owners they weren't cheating. What a load of bollocks. Trying to paint himself as someone with morals. He's up to his neck in it as much as anyone, the colossal bell end.

Yep, he has nailed his flag to the mast.

He's up to his polo neck in it.

[Drummond]

The whole thing stinks. It's already taken 5 years to get here after Der Spiegel did their thing. UEFA rules have a time-bar which is why much of what they threw at Man City was thrown out. However, the Premier League doesn't. The charges City face only cover the period to 2019, so you'd think there's more to come for the last 4 years too.

These are the punishments that can be given by the Independent Commission.

Suspend a club from playing league matches
Points deductions
Recommend to the board that league matches be replayed
Recommend to the board that the league expels the respondent club
Order compensation
Cancel or refuse registration of players
Conditional punishment
Order the club to pay costs
Make such other order as it thinks fit

The charges faced by Man City are:

In accordance with Premier League Rule W.82.1, the Premier League confirms that it has referred a number of alleged breaches of the Premier League Rules by Manchester City Football Club ( Club ) to a Commission under Premier League Rule W.3.4.

Details of the Premier League Rules that the Club is alleged to have breached are as follows:

1. In respect of each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those seasons that required provision by a member club to the Premier League, in the utmost good faith, of accurate financial information that gives a true and fair view of the club’s financial position, in particular with respect to its revenue (including sponsorship revenue), its related parties and its operating costs, namely:
(a) for Season 2009/10, Premier League Rules B.13, C.71, C.72, C.75 (amended to C.79 from 10 September 2009 for the remainder of Season 2009/10) and C.80;
(b) for Season 2010/11, Premier League Rules B.13, C.78, C.79, C.86 and C.87;
(c) for Season 2011/12, Premier League Rules B.13, E.3, 4, E.11 and E.12;
(d) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules 16, E.3, E.4, E.11 and E.12;
(e) for Season 2013/14, Premier League Rules 15, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.49;
(f) for Season 2014/15, Premier League Rules 16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.50;
(g) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules 16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.50;
(h) for Season 2016/17, Premier League Rules16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.51; and
(i) for Season 2017/18, Premier League Rules B.16, 3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.51.

2. In respect of:
(a) each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2012/13 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager, namely:
(1) for Seasons 2009/10 to 2011/12 inclusive, Premier League Rules Q.7 and Q.8; and
(2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules P.7 and P.8; and
(b) each of Seasons 2010/11 to 2015/16 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of player remuneration in its relevant contracts with its players, namely:
(1) for Seasons 2010/11 and 2011/12, Premier League Rules K.12 and K.20;
(2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules T.12 and T.20;
(3) for Seasons 2013/14 and 2014/15, Premier League Rules T.12 and T.19; and
(4) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules T.13 and T.20.

3. In respect of each of Seasons 2013/14 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to comply with UEFA’s regulations, including UEFA’s Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations, namely:
(a) for Season 2013/14, Premier League Rule B.14.6; and
(b) for Seasons 2014/15 to 2017/18 inclusive, Premier League Rule B.15.6.

4. In respect of each of the Seasons 2015/16 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons on Profitability and Sustainability, namely:
(a) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules E.52 to E.60; and
(b) for Seasons 2016/17 and 2017/18, Premier League Rules E.53 to E.60.

5. In respect of the period from December 2018 to date, the Premier League Rules applicable in the relevant Seasons requiring a member club to cooperate with, and assist, the Premier League in its investigations, including by providing documents and information to the Premier League in the utmost good faith, namely:
(a) for Season 2018/19, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(b) for Season 2019/20, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(c) for Season 2020/21, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(d) for Season 2021/22, Premier League Rules B.15, B.18, W.1, W.2, W.15 and W.16; and
(e) for Season 2022/23, Premier League Rules B.15, B.18, W.1, W.2, W.15 and W.16.