Villa Park Redevelopment

[Chris Smith]

I think you're reaching a bit there Drummond.  If it was all about the transport he'd have said that - then it would be a game of playing chicken with the Council.

It sounds to me like he's throwing out excuses because ultimately they just don't want to commit the money right now.  I know some think that's because of even bigger plans.  I remain sceptical and of the view it's about his lack of confidence about underlying demand and selling enough premium tickets to get a return.

Hang on, how am I reaching when that's what he said? I'd suggest you're taking a pessimistic view based on previous let downs.

Because in your summary paragraphs you implied it was all about the transport links, which I don't think it is.  If it was, I think he would have said exactly that to put pressure on the Council.

Transport falls under the West Midlands Mayor’s remit rather than the council. They’ve committed to upgrading Witton station but that isn’t going to happen overnight, they’re working towards the Euro ‘28 timetable. The area is just about coping with current numbers and we can’t increase capacity without significant improvements.

Absolutely, and correct me if I@m wrong, but buses and parking are the council? And the council would have some sway with the mayor too.

It’s not straightforward but as I understand it National Express run the buses, West Midlands Rail the trains but the West Midlands Combined Authority has an overarching strategic role.

[eamonn]

As others have said, they may have been spooked by the indifference which greeted the Lower Grounds scheme. They probably want average spend per game (inc. ticket) to be hovering above £75 and as close to three figures as possible. And maybe it's that which Heck (correctly) thinks is "too fast too soon". Maybe he wants to make sure all the fans make at least 50k a year and he's gonna vouch for us in job interviews.

[Gareth]

So in terms of FFP are the allowances against the build costs in the accounts or would the allowances also cater for the loss of current revenue for the current North Stand seats, hospitality, catering etc?

[N'ZMAV]

I think you're reaching a bit there Drummond.  If it was all about the transport he'd have said that - then it would be a game of playing chicken with the Council.

It sounds to me like he's throwing out excuses because ultimately they just don't want to commit the money right now.  I know some think that's because of even bigger plans.  I remain sceptical and of the view it's about his lack of confidence about underlying demand and selling enough premium tickets to get a return.

Hang on, how am I reaching when that's what he said? I'd suggest you're taking a pessimistic view based on previous let downs.

Because in your summary paragraphs you implied it was all about the transport links, which I don't think it is.  If it was, I think he would have said exactly that to put pressure on the Council.

Transport falls under the West Midlands Mayor’s remit rather than the council. They’ve committed to upgrading Witton station but that isn’t going to happen overnight, they’re working towards the Euro ‘28 timetable. The area is just about coping with current numbers and we can’t increase capacity without significant improvements.

Absolutely, and correct me if I@m wrong, but buses and parking are the council? And the council would have some sway with the mayor too.

It’s not straightforward but as I understand it National Express run the buses, West Midlands Rail the trains but the West Midlands Combined Authority has an overarching strategic role.

so it'll be a piss-up in a brewery for a skint council to decide on?

[Chris Smith]

I think you're reaching a bit there Drummond.  If it was all about the transport he'd have said that - then it would be a game of playing chicken with the Council.

It sounds to me like he's throwing out excuses because ultimately they just don't want to commit the money right now.  I know some think that's because of even bigger plans.  I remain sceptical and of the view it's about his lack of confidence about underlying demand and selling enough premium tickets to get a return.

Hang on, how am I reaching when that's what he said? I'd suggest you're taking a pessimistic view based on previous let downs.

Because in your summary paragraphs you implied it was all about the transport links, which I don't think it is.  If it was, I think he would have said exactly that to put pressure on the Council.

Transport falls under the West Midlands Mayor’s remit rather than the council. They’ve committed to upgrading Witton station but that isn’t going to happen overnight, they’re working towards the Euro ‘28 timetable. The area is just about coping with current numbers and we can’t increase capacity without significant improvements.

Absolutely, and correct me if I@m wrong, but buses and parking are the council? And the council would have some sway with the mayor too.

It’s not straightforward but as I understand it National Express run the buses, West Midlands Rail the trains but the West Midlands Combined Authority has an overarching strategic role.

so it'll be a piss-up in a brewery for a skint council to decide on?

The first bit is probably true but it’s Birmingham Council that is bankrupt rather than the Combined Authority.

[VillaTim]

So in terms of FFP are the allowances against the build costs in the accounts or would the allowances also cater for the loss of current revenue for the current North Stand seats, hospitality, catering etc?

This type of Capex sits outside FFP

[Risso]

I think he wants to look at the entire ground versus just one stand. I don't think he is so naive to think that extra fans in the ground doesn't make sense but more how does it fit in as a total plan and not just one stand.

But we've got one stand that's massively overdue for an overhaul, that's too small with appalling facilities. When that's done, the Witton is next, and that needs doing as well. The alternative is that nobody gets anything much better than they have now, for the next ten years, and in that time we're really going to fall massively behind on revenue from the ground compared to half the Premier League.

When we're still having FFP worries in three years, think then that we could be playing in front of 50,000 fans, and we could have plans to get to 60,000. Instead we'll have done nothing.

[Gareth]

So in terms of FFP are the allowances against the build costs in the accounts or would the allowances also cater for the loss of current revenue for the current North Stand seats, hospitality, catering etc?

This type of Capex sits outside FFP

That’s the build costs not the lost revenues

[VillaTim]

So in terms of FFP are the allowances against the build costs in the accounts or would the allowances also cater for the loss of current revenue for the current North Stand seats, hospitality, catering etc?

This type of Capex sits outside FFP

That’s the build costs not the lost revenues

I believe the lost revenues would negatively impact the FFP figures

[Gareth]

So in terms of FFP are the allowances against the build costs in the accounts or would the allowances also cater for the loss of current revenue for the current North Stand seats, hospitality, catering etc?

This type of Capex sits outside FFP

That’s the build costs not the lost revenues

I believe the lost revenues would negatively impact the FFP figures

No idea how much that would be, particularly hospitality

[VillaTim]

So in terms of FFP are the allowances against the build costs in the accounts or would the allowances also cater for the loss of current revenue for the current North Stand seats, hospitality, catering etc?

This type of Capex sits outside FFP

That’s the build costs not the lost revenues

I believe the lost revenues would negatively impact the FFP figures

No idea how much that would be, particularly hospitality

hospitality in the North is negligible , its just that Gas Lamp lounge isn't it ? Maybe that restaurant in the corner ?

[Drummond]

I think he wants to look at the entire ground versus just one stand. I don't think he is so naive to think that extra fans in the ground doesn't make sense but more how does it fit in as a total plan and not just one stand.

But we've got one stand that's massively overdue for an overhaul, that's too small with appalling facilities. When that's done, the Witton is next, and that needs doing as well. The alternative is that nobody gets anything much better than they have now, for the next ten years, and in that time we're really going to fall massively behind on revenue from the ground compared to half the Premier League.

When we're still having FFP worries in three years, think then that we could be playing in front of 50,000 fans, and we could have plans to get to 60,000. Instead we'll have done nothing.

It's not cancelled though, it's under review.

[Percy McCarthy]

It's not about revenue during the works, as Risso said there's an allowance for stand rebuilds.  So that excuse at least doesn't wash.

The cost of the actual rebuilding counts as infrastructure, and doesn’t count against FFP. The loss of revenue from having a reduced capacity does.

[pauliewalnuts]

It's not about revenue during the works, as Risso said there's an allowance for stand rebuilds.  So that excuse at least doesn't wash.

The cost of the actual rebuilding counts as infrastructure, and doesn’t count against FFP. The loss of revenue from having a reduced capacity does.

Also don’t forget, it Is actual money which has to come from somewhere 

[andyh]

Isn’t this whole thread moot now ?