Villa Park Redevelopment

[Hopadop]

In relation to transport issues, I can't think that many sites wouldn't have issues when 50k people all decide to hit the road at the same time. And as others have said, Villa Park is actually not that badly off for transport links, it's just those links need to be upgraded.

Given the massive headstart it's got with the tube, London's probably not the best comparison but both Arsenal and Spurs have a lot of shuttle buses laid on. Even so, I'd say Spurs with their brand spanker of stadium is still not that good, even though WHL station was upgraded as part of the redevelopment and the trains are very regular. You're still better off walking to Northumberland Park or all the way down to Seven Sisters.

What neither have are many arriving by car.

[Dante Lavelli]

There was a long presentation posted on the Heck thread where he discussed his achievements at the 76ers where their income grew ridiculously under his guidance.  It was a while since I watched it but two things stood out:

1. Cleaning up the branding
2. Moving to a purpose built stadium (shared with other sports/income streams I think).

In fairness it was a good interview and potentially he is following the same playbook at Villa.

[chrisw1]

Can you really offer the full premium experience with a stand behind the goal?   I know Arsenal used to have the Clock End at Highbury, but that was out of necessity. As the two art deco stands running the length of the pitch were listed buildings.

It doesn't really happen anywhere else.

Maybe we're putting a pause on it whilst Heck looks at the viability of doing something with the Doug Ellis stand. Which, lets face it, has little sentimental value.

This has crossed my mind, too.
Get it all done in one, rather than two phases.
Or, get the one done in a way that the second can can just fit onto it

I think people are being very kind.

This isn't about crowd number for a possible Champions League season, or about doing an even bigger development or relocation.  It's about money. 

I'm pretty sure they've cancelled it as they are concerned about lack of demand for corporate and GA+ tickets.  The development was never about an extra few thousand standard-priced tickets which would never have given a return on the investment.  It was about significantly increased corporate offer and premium-priced tickets.  Unfortunately, they don't seem to understand that the principal reason for the relative failure of Terrace View and Lower Grounds is the location, not the concept.

[Ads]

They're not failing though. They're increasingly doing good numbers.

[chrisw1]

They're not failing though. They're increasingly doing good numbers.

You reckon?

Yet people talk about blocks of seats becoming available a few days before the match.  These are unsold GA+ seats that had been held back but failed to sell.

[pauliewalnuts]

They're not failing though. They're increasingly doing good numbers.

You reckon?

Yet people talk about blocks of seats becoming available a few days before the match.  These are unsold GA+ seats that had been held back but failed to sell.

To be doing what they consider ‘good numbers’ they don’t have to sell out straight away necessarily.

They’ll be expecting it to take a while to get traction, especially as it’s a product offering of a type we haven’t really had before.

[Villan82]

There was a long presentation posted on the Heck thread where he discussed his achievements at the 76ers where their income grew ridiculously under his guidance.  It was a while since I watched it but two things stood out:

1. Cleaning up the branding
2. Moving to a purpose built stadium (shared with other sports/income streams I think).

In fairness it was a good interview and potentially he is following the same playbook at Villa.

This is the worry.
1. Leaving our beloved Villa Park
2. Heck being in charge of redesigning something new.

[pauliewalnuts]

Also there is no lack of demand for corporates - they’re permanently sold out.

[Risso]

Also there is no lack of demand for corporates - they’re permanently sold out.

That's right. People are confusing this with the Lower Grounds and Terrace View, which aren't corporate.

[chrisw1]

They're not failing though. They're increasingly doing good numbers.

You reckon?

Yet people talk about blocks of seats becoming available a few days before the match.  These are unsold GA+ seats that had been held back but failed to sell.

To be doing what they consider ‘good numbers’ they don’t have to sell out straight away necessarily.

They’ll be expecting it to take a while to get traction, especially as it’s a product offering of a type we haven’t really had before.

I don't for a minute believe they are doing 'good numbers'  And the numbers they have done will have been boosted by the novelty factor.

Terrace View will continue to be a failure until they can offer better tickets with the package - and that would mean relocating current ST holders.

[Ads]

They are doing good numbers. I guess its a difficult thing to argue if you don't accept that and premise your argument that it's failing on that basis/fallacy.

They've not canned the new North because Terrace View is at 80% occupancy just a few months after it was born surrounded by immense unpopularity.

[Dante Lavelli]

Given the wider catchment area and the absence of competition, Villa must have the potential to absolutely coin it in from corporate revenue. 

Similarly, concerts and even NFL must have the potential to be money spinners for the club.  London has Wembley, Emirites, Spurs, West Ham and Twickenham that regularly host ‘other’ stuff.  A Madison Sq Gardens Sphere is in for planning (plus the O2).  Villa Park should be designed to cash-in on these opportunities too.

[dave.woodhall]

I refer back to the minutes of the FAB meeting - Terrace View was "tickets sold", Lower Grounds was "numbers using". Spot the difference.

[chrisw1]

They are doing good numbers. I guess its a difficult thing to argue if you don't accept that and premise your argument that it's failing on that basis/fallacy.

They've not canned the new North because Terrace View is at 80% occupancy just a few months after it was born surrounded by immense unpopularity.

IF it's 80% occupancy, that still means 200 tickets unsold.  In our best season in 25 years.

[algy]

I refer back to the minutes of the FAB meeting - Terrace View was "tickets sold", Lower Grounds was "numbers using". Spot the difference.

Presumably they expect a few folk with e.g season tickets to be occasional Lower Grounds users, though?

The thing is, all of the stands at Villa Park now we're built at a time when the average crowds were just over 30k, and sub 20k crowds weren't unheard of. Two of the stands (Witton Lane and Holte End) needed to be rebuilt in a short timeframe, and so maybe a tighter budget than they'd ideally have had, due to the Taylor Report meaning we had no choice but to rebuild both in the space of 4 years. Ellis gets pelters for it, but it wasn't an easy hand he was dealt there & the Holte End at least has held up reasonably well.

To me - staying at Villa Park is important. It's a better site than it's sometimes given credit for on here, and I think there aren't actually many realistic options of places that improve any of the problems that we have. It's only really the city centre that would be able to take an influx of 50-60k people and it not have a noticeable impact on transport.

If we had the option to temporarily move out (to Perry Barr?), rebuild, move back - I think that'd be the best option. However, if that isn't available then the North Stand is our best opportunity to improve the stadium. The Trinity Road and Witton Lane stands aren't going to hold too many more people than they are currently, and there's no room behind the Holte End for e.g. a retractable pitch or any other space age stuff.

IMO unless we rebuild, we need something better than the Purslow designs for the North Stand