Villa Park Redevelopment

[London Villan]

Do any PL stadiums around the country add extra trains for match-days. I know a big problem for scheduling trains is the constant moving of fixtures - which causes issues for rolling stock and drivers. But surely there are ways around this?!

Witton will probably remain as it is - just improvements to queues and routes to and from the ground.

[Gareth]

VP is dependent on it being 52k so if redevelopment of North is delayed significantly the ground will be removed I’d guess.

Need Witton Station sorting out - will it come out of the cancelled HS2 pot?

I don't think 52k is a stipulation for VP to hold the Euros. Casement Park will hold 34,500 after redevelopment. I believe the money for Witton Station rebuild is already earmarked. This news should get things moving.

I think it is a stipulation
52,190 is the advertised capacity

I thought it was quoted as 50k and a few hundred after the rebuild? And why would we be held to 52k if another venue ie Casement Park in Belfast will only hold 34,500 after its rebuild?

Don’t know but every listing on stadiums says VP is 52,190 and an average of 58k across all grounds.

Guess Notthern Ireland dont need a 50k+ stadium and can hold some of the smaller games & countries

[AV82EC]

Out of interest, are there plans one can look at of any proposed improvements to Witton station? Would the current matchday problems be then alleviated without the running of extra trains, or are extra trains key to any improvement?

As I understand it, there's a few limiting factors.  The layout of the station I don't think is too much of an issue - 1 platform in either direction can cope with a pretty high frequency service - there's plenty of examples of 2 platform stations which operate at very high capacity (e.g. platforms 13 & 14 at Manchester Piccadilly*).

Extending the platforms would allow for more coaches.  I'd wonder if that was likely, though, because basically those trains have to be lugging those coaches - containing mostly fresh air except for a couple of busy periods between 1pm-3pm and 5pm-6pm - around all day.  So I guess you might see longer trains, but I think it's more likely that you wouldn't because it doesn't make an awful lot of operational sense.

I'd think perhaps - and I'm just speculating here - the problem lies as much with the availability of train crew (which is not going to be solved by HS2), and the lack of capacity at Birmingham New Street station (which will be helped by HS2, regardless of the extension).


* edit: I realised after I wrote that, it looks like I'm contradicting myself.   Basically Platforms 1-12 are terminus platforms at Piccadilly, so all trains finish there.  Platforms 13 & 14 are the only two 'through' platforms, where trains go to Manchester then carry on to wherever their destination is (Liverpool, Glasgow, Blackpool, ...).  In effect, those two platforms effectively operate as a separate station from the rest of Manchester Piccadilly.

You are correct algy though I think most citizens of the northern outpost would laugh at the suggestion that Platforms 13 and 14 are in anyway operating effectively.

[The Edge]

VP is dependent on it being 52k so if redevelopment of North is delayed significantly the ground will be removed I’d guess.

Need Witton Station sorting out - will it come out of the cancelled HS2 pot?

I don't think 52k is a stipulation for VP to hold the Euros. Casement Park will hold 34,500 after redevelopment. I believe the money for Witton Station rebuild is already earmarked. This news should get things moving.

I think it is a stipulation
52,190 is the advertised capacity

I thought it was quoted as 50k and a few hundred after the rebuild? And why would we be held to 52k if another venue ie Casement Park in Belfast will only hold 34,500 after its rebuild?

Don’t know but every listing on stadiums says VP is 52,190 and an average of 58k across all grounds.

Guess Notthern Ireland dont need a 50k+ stadium and can hold some of the smaller games & countries

Fair enough but I just don't think we would lose our place just because we end up with 50k instead of 52k which is what I think you meant.

[Lastfootstamper]

Do any PL stadiums around the country add extra trains for match-days. I know a big problem for scheduling trains is the constant moving of fixtures - which causes issues for rolling stock and drivers. But surely there are ways around this?!

Witton will probably remain as it is - just improvements to queues and routes to and from the ground.

Much like hopes of improvements to the concourse offerings inside most parts of the stadium, I feel that if getting extra or longer trains was something remotely viable it would have happened by now.

[DeKuip]

UEFA will want the first two rows of seats taken out for bigger pitch side advertising boards and more space made available for press, so that will reduce capacity a little, although we wouldn’t have to leave seats empty for segregation.
Transport wouldn’t be such a problem for the Euros as dates and times would be known over a year in advance giving plenty of time for proper planning.
 

[pauliewalnuts]

Do any PL stadiums around the country add extra trains for match-days. I know a big problem for scheduling trains is the constant moving of fixtures - which causes issues for rolling stock and drivers. But surely there are ways around this?!

Witton will probably remain as it is - just improvements to queues and routes to and from the ground.

Much like hopes of improvements to the concourse offerings inside most parts of the stadium, I feel that if getting extra or longer trains was something remotely viable it would have happened by now.

The platforms are probably too short, that's the usual problem with longer trains.

[Lastfootstamper]

The train that services Witton is the one that currently runs from the mysterious platform 5 at Wolverhampton to Walsall and back via New Street and all points in between. I'd be surprised If there's many platforms on that route capable of taking longer trains. You can't really just dump carriages at New Street, either.

[The Edge]

Extra capacity at Witton Station is the driving force behind a 30 million pound upgrade be that longer trains or more trains. The logistics of all that is something for experts to sort out otherwise what's the point of spending 30 million quid.

[Drummond]

Even if Witton has longer platforms and there are football or event specials that only stop there from New Street and maybe another station the other way, that would sort it far more than it is now.

[London Villan]

£30m will get a couple of lifts, a tunnel under the tracks and some sort of queuing systems.

The two lifts and a new entrance at Snow Hill cost £17m 10 years ago.

[IFWaters]

Why can't we just run some fucking buses instead of all this witton station bollocks. Being reliant on this could scupper all the plans, I think it's nuts.

[Drummond]

Why can't we just run some fucking buses instead of all this witton station bollocks. Being reliant on this could scupper all the plans, I think it's nuts.

Because fucking buses get caught in traffic, decent trains are faster, have more capacity and are safer too.

[IFWaters]

Why can't we just run some fucking buses instead of all this witton station bollocks. Being reliant on this could scupper all the plans, I think it's nuts.

Because fucking buses get caught in traffic, decent trains are faster, have more capacity and are safer too.

Bollocks. Bus lanes. Buses can go anywhere in the conurbation, trains can't. Train infrastructure is a monumentally expensive ripoff and Villa tying themselves to Witton station improvements is asking for trouble.

[AV82EC]

Why can't we just run some fucking buses instead of all this witton station bollocks. Being reliant on this could scupper all the plans, I think it's nuts.

Buses can shift a small proportion in people per hour terms than a metro or rail system so you’re not solving the problem. Get Witton and Aston stations infrastructure right I.e 6 or 8 car trains able to be accommodated and programmed for pre and post match services and you’ll have a lot of happy people, throw in free WM travel on match day and you’ll get some modal shift out of cars. This ain’t fucking rocket science and the fact it takes us to host a major event to even think about sorting it out is quite frankly shameful and pathetic, but hey we’re not that there London.