Villa Park Redevelopment

[London Villan]

Built on the cheap, badly and had to be retrofitted with new seats due to safety issues that weren't discovered initially. It then took 10 years to complete before the claret and blue balcony was added.

That's Doug for you...

[VillaTim]

Wait what, we did the Witton in house by going to a builders merchant?!

Yep all managed by a bloke called Ted Small who was Stadium Manager.

We boasted at the time how little it cost but then quickly discovered due to asbestos we had to demolish and rebuild the lower tier which we just left.

The cost would be tiny by comparison with today's costs.

the stand was built by Ellmanton Construction - Doug's very own building contractor he set up for the job. Never missed a trick that bloke to rinse money out the club

[jon collett]

My memory hazy but I think he then tried the same trick with the new Holte but in the end had to get proper contractors and architect in.

By then it was too late because of way Witton Lane built so some seats in new Holte had their views blocked.

[dave.woodhall]

Ted Small was a decent bloke who did a good job in the circumstances - the circumstances being that three-quarters of Villa Park was built at a time when the over-riding ethos of the club was "How much for cash?"

[London Villan]

It's crazy the two stands built within a year of each other (Holte End/Witton Lane) look so different and have such a disjointed connection, with a section of restricted view seats...

[chrisw1]

It's amazing how many people look back with affection at an egotistical leach whose greatest achievement was that we didn't 'do a Leeds'

Good old Doug.

[VillaTim]

It's crazy the two stands built within a year of each other (Holte End/Witton Lane) look so different and have such a disjointed connection, with a section of restricted view seats...

some of those seats must look directly at a brick wall . Brilliant planning

[KevinGage]

Wait what, we did the Witton in house by going to a builders merchant?!

Yep all managed by a bloke called Ted Small who was Stadium Manager.

We boasted at the time how little it cost but then quickly discovered due to asbestos we had to demolish and rebuild the lower tier which we just left.

The cost would be tiny by comparison with today's costs.

Doug boasted that we were the only club to have built our own stand.

Not sure it was something to boast about, but still.

And what a fitting tribute it is to the man, the myth the leg end.

[The Edge]

It's crazy the two stands built within a year of each other (Holte End/Witton Lane) look so different and have such a disjointed connection, with a section of restricted view seats...

some of those seats must look directly at a brick wall . Brilliant planning

It's something that's triggered my ocd since the day the new Holte was opened. You've got me thinking now. It's possible that they could re-profile the lower Holte to match the angle of the seating in the DE forming a new corner section thus creating more seating. Could this be the re-jigging of the current seating that Heck was talking about?

[Ads]

All these suggestions...just build a new stadium.

[chrisw1]

ADS, the major problem I (and I believe a few others) have with a stadium rebuild is the timescale. 

We're in our purple patch right now.  We have an elite manager, wealthy owners and a talented squad.  We can be in a new stand in two seasons.  Hopefully at that point Emery will still be with us and we'll be firmly in the Champions League.  We'd be massively increasing our revenue and seizing the opportunity that is in front of us right now.

I'm sick of jam tomorrow.  If we go for a rebuild or relocation, the most bullish estimates would probably be 7 years plus before we're in and playing.  Emery will almost certainly have moved on and we'll be in our next cycle, whatever that may be. 

In the meantime, we'll have been limited more than we need to have been by FFP and our ability to support Emery.

I strongly believe we should get the stand up, increase the corporate offer and get the revenue going.  If there's clearly more appetite when it's up, then we can look at CPO's and other options.

If Heck honestly doesn't think 50k is enough (and I believe he thinks it's too much) then redesign the North as a horseshoe and put pressure on the council for a very slight shift in the Trinity roadline if we need to.
 

[VillaTim]

It's crazy the two stands built within a year of each other (Holte End/Witton Lane) look so different and have such a disjointed connection, with a section of restricted view seats...

some of those seats must look directly at a brick wall . Brilliant planning

It's something that's triggered my ocd since the day the new Holte was opened. You've got me thinking now. It's possible that they could re-profile the lower Holte to match the angle of the seating in the DE forming a new corner section thus creating more seating. Could this be the re-jigging of the current seating that Heck was talking about?

i'm not sure its possible those seats in the bottom of the Holte that are blocked off are very low down and at a weid angle , not sure how you'd adjust them without blocking others off

[paul_e]

ADS, the major problem I (and I believe a few others) have with a stadium rebuild is the timescale. 

We're in our purple patch right now.  We have an elite manager, wealthy owners and a talented squad.  We can be in a new stand in two seasons.  Hopefully at that point Emery will still be with us and we'll be firmly in the Champions League.  We'd be massively increasing our revenue and seizing the opportunity that is in front of us right now.

I'm sick of jam tomorrow.  If we go for a rebuild or relocation, the most bullish estimates would probably be 7 years plus before we're in and playing.  Emery will almost certainly have moved on and we'll be in our next cycle, whatever that may be. 

In the meantime, we'll have been limited more than we need to have been by FFP and our ability to support Emery.

I strongly believe we should get the stand up, increase the corporate offer and get the revenue going.  If there's clearly more appetite when it's up, then we can look at CPO's and other options.

If Heck honestly doesn't think 50k is enough (and I believe he thinks it's too much) then redesign the North as a horseshoe and put pressure on the council for a very slight shift in the Trinity roadline if we need to.
 

On the bold bit: Would people want a horseshoe, isn't that 3/4s of a "soulless bowl"?

I totally get what you're saying here and I see the sense in it but it really depends on what "you" see as the target at the end of all this. I suspect me and Ads are on the slightly more extreme end where we want a 60k stadium with world class facilities throughout and with all the corporate space you'd expect from a ground that's hosting regular finals and internationals, as well as concerts, etc. Add to that a hotel, conference centre, etc. Basically all the bits that grounds add on to help them make money outside matchdays.

On that basis £100m on a single stand that gets us maybe 15-20% of the way there but potentially makes doing the rest more difficult seems like it could easily either be wasted expense or would further delay getting where I want to be. I think you're being overly negative in assuming Heck thinks 50k is too much (but it's an understandable opinion given what has been said so far) and, with the addition of Comcast/Atairos, I'm of the opinion that the delay/cancellation is mostly to investigate what the options are to get to something like I want and whether the proposed stand is a step towards that or not. If they decide it is we still have the planning permission/funding/etc to restart it but if not we haven't gone too far to not be able to turn around.

[Villan82]

In my experience of villa jam tomorrow never arrives and that's why the Heck announcement went down so badly. Ellis and Lerner both bottled doing the North Stand whereas these guys were serious and it signalled a new era.

People talk about space, as we saw with Villa Live there are other ways to deliver the bells and whistles of a modern stadium. We have acres of space behind the North for hotels, conference centres, shops, music venues and whatever else.

Just get us to 50k while we are experiencing our best ever consistent average attendances. I don't get it.

[chrisw1]

That's it really Villan. 

Both views are valid and it would be great to ultimately see us in a 60k seater.  But we have Emery now.  Let's go balls out to exploit that and get up to 50-55k.  If we're concerned about corporate space, make the North even bigger - there's loads of room in that car park.

I honestly don't mind filling in the corners if it adds another few thousand seats.  Particularly if we retain a stand-alone Holte.  What we want is a competitive stadium in 2-3 years not 7-10.