Champions League restructuring

[Sexual Ealing]

Do you remember when UEFA banned English clubs from European competitions for 5 years on the basis that 'they needed to send a strong enough message to everyone else that this hooligan behaviour will not be accepted in any way'?

That's the least I would think should be done to the 9 ESL clubs. The very least. For exactly the same reasons; 'pour encourager les autres'.

As shit as this project was/is, nobody has died as a result of it.

[AllanW]

I agree Allan, to do absolutely nothing enforces what all fans think about football's governing body, toothless and no bollocks, pandering the the bigger clubs, reinforcing the bias towards those clubs.  Some of the clubs have already been fined a paltry amount but there needs to be a collective punishment which really should include a ban from competition.

Precisely. Cheers.

@Monty; UEFA have all the legal basis they need to impose massive penalties as they determine, whether that's financial, bans or a combination of both plus anything else they can come up with. And that legal basis is not affected by the subsequent actions of the English 6; that should just affect the sentencing not whether they are guilty or innocent. 

I agree with Steve76; if UEFA don't do something huge then they leave themselves revealed as still the puppets of the biggest clubs and everyone else will know nothing has changed. The ESL clubs will have got away with it. And at that point I'd like to think the national football bodies and all their clubs supporters will get together again and demand a real change in the nature of the game not some PR-fed confection that means in reality nothing changes.

[AllanW]

As shit as this project was/is, nobody has died as a result of it.

You're correct but that's not the only measure of damage, is it? In fact most times people don't die directly from shit-house financial crimes (make no mistake, the ESL project is a crime against the rest of the game) but luckily most people can see that stealing the livelihood from others, starving the grassroots of a community, or hoarding wealth to the few so it's not available to the many is eventually deadly.

[Sexual Ealing]

As shit as this project was/is, nobody has died as a result of it.

You're correct but that's not the only measure of damage, is it? In fact most times people don't die directly from shit-house financial crimes (make no mistake, the ESL project is a crime against the rest of the game) but luckily most people can see that stealing the livelihood from others, starving the grassroots of a community, or hoarding wealth to the few so it's not available to the many is eventually deadly.

I'm not defending it at all, but the ban came in after Heysel. This is trivial in comparison.

[Monty]

Absolutely. The longer-term blanket ban on English clubs was proportionate to a horrible event like Heysel. Banning particular clubs for a year for breaking the rules would be different, smaller, and not worth mentioning in the same breath.

[chrisw1]

I agree Allan, to do absolutely nothing enforces what all fans think about football's governing body, toothless and no bollocks, pandering the the bigger clubs, reinforcing the bias towards those clubs.  Some of the clubs have already been fined a paltry amount but there needs to be a collective punishment which really should include a ban from competition.

Precisely. Cheers.

@Monty; UEFA have all the legal basis they need to impose massive penalties as they determine, whether that's financial, bans or a combination of both plus anything else they can come up with. And that legal basis is not affected by the subsequent actions of the English 6; that should just affect the sentencing not whether they are guilty or innocent. 

I agree with Steve76; if UEFA don't do something huge then they leave themselves revealed as still the puppets of the biggest clubs and everyone else will know nothing has changed. The ESL clubs will have got away with it. And at that point I'd like to think the national football bodies and all their clubs supporters will get together again and demand a real change in the nature of the game not some PR-fed confection that means in reality nothing changes.

If you ban these 9 clubs from Europe for 5 years what do you think will happen next?

[AllanW]

I'm not defending it at all, but the ban came in after Heysel. This is trivial in comparison.

I'm sure everyone can see you aren't but it's not trivial, it's far from that. We've been saying it for years and so have most other clubs across Europe if the response to the ESL was anything to go by; the biggest clubs have rigged the game in their favour. The amount of wealth which goes to them has been skewed hugely in the last 15 years and it has unbalanced the ecosystem. It needs to be rebalanced and this is exactly one way in which UEFA can show they really mean it rather than spin it and go back to how it was. Punish them so it hurts, everyone else will applaud and they will suffer and get pushed back into the ruck rather than constantly trying to make themselves separate and unnassailable in their isolation.

The fundamental question is; 'Do UEFA want a franchise game or not?' If they don't they should make it plain that no-one will ever be allowed to try to do this again because football is a competitive sport not a made-for-television entertainment.

[Sexual Ealing]

It's not trivial, I agree. In comparison to Heysel, it is trivial.

[LeeB]

I agree Allan, to do absolutely nothing enforces what all fans think about football's governing body, toothless and no bollocks, pandering the the bigger clubs, reinforcing the bias towards those clubs.  Some of the clubs have already been fined a paltry amount but there needs to be a collective punishment which really should include a ban from competition.

Precisely. Cheers.

@Monty; UEFA have all the legal basis they need to impose massive penalties as they determine, whether that's financial, bans or a combination of both plus anything else they can come up with. And that legal basis is not affected by the subsequent actions of the English 6; that should just affect the sentencing not whether they are guilty or innocent. 

I agree with Steve76; if UEFA don't do something huge then they leave themselves revealed as still the puppets of the biggest clubs and everyone else will know nothing has changed. The ESL clubs will have got away with it. And at that point I'd like to think the national football bodies and all their clubs supporters will get together again and demand a real change in the nature of the game not some PR-fed confection that means in reality nothing changes.

If you ban these 9 clubs from Europe for 5 years what do you think will happen next?

I reckon they're now a small enough group to royally fuck. Had it been the full 12 you may have had a point, but they're on their own now, exposed and weak.

Time to put the boot in.

[Monty]

I think punishing the 9 differently to the 3 is fair enough. It seems like Barca, Juve and Real were the most convinced of the idea anyway, and now they're so isolated and powerless it's a good opportunity to show them where the power in football lies now.

[AllanW]

I reckon they're now a small enough group to royally fuck. Had it been the full 12 you may have had a point, but they're on their own now, exposed and weak.

Time to put the boot in.

Perfect. Just perfect

[Ad@m]

I think punishing the 9 differently to the 3 is fair enough. It seems like Barca, Juve and Real were the most convinced of the idea anyway, and now they're so isolated and powerless it's a good opportunity to show them where the power in football lies now.

Exactly. They still believe in their silly little project but our own William McGregor knew that your football club wasn't up to much if you had noone to play, so while there's only 3 of them they're at UEFA's mercy.

[Risso]

I think punishing the 9 differently to the 3 is fair enough. It seems like Barca, Juve and Real were the most convinced of the idea anyway, and now they're so isolated and powerless it's a good opportunity to show them where the power in football lies now.

Exactly. They still believe in their silly little project but our own William McGregor knew that your football club wasn't up to much if you had noone to play, so while there's only 3 of them they're at UEFA's mercy.

They're like the solitary hooligan still giving it the large 'un, whose mates have all run off home, knowing full well he's about to get a good chinning any second soon.

[Martin Carruthers]

At the VERY least, the latest reforms (with the wildcards based on historical performance) need to be canned off.

[Drummond]

So looks like the Premier League are letting the 6 rebels negotiate their own punishment for trying to leave, total fine approx, £20m. Farce.