Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: algy on February 04, 2021, 05:56:30 PM
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https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/feb/04/champions-league-revamp-talks-could-herald-end-of-group-stage
Uefa is understood to have proposed the scrapping of the format of eight groups of four and replacing it with one league where each team plays 10 matches in a so-called ‘Swiss system’.
Used the swiss system in Subbuteo competitions in my youth. Sadly people almost always butcher the system, and I'd be highly surprised if that wasn't also the case here. The number of games should be exactly the same as the number of rounds for a straight knockout - so 10 matches would be the right amount for 1024 (2^10) teams ...
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That system looks full of holes to me.
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That system looks full of holes to me.
You can canton them to make things too complicated.
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They're trying to take all the romansch out of the competition.
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Blimey that sounds fucking tedious.
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It would help if they reduced the international fixture calendar rather than adding the UEFA Nations League to existing qualifiers and friendlies.
Excluding Champions League teams from the League cup would be better than scrapping it.
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Leave the League Cup alone you twats.
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The Toblerone Cup.
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It would help if they reduced the international fixture calendar rather than adding the UEFA Nations League to existing qualifiers and friendlies.
Excluding Champions League teams from the League cup would be better than scrapping it.
It would help if they ceased being grasping bastards and just went back to a straight knockout.
It would add prestige back to, it would ease the burden on the players and the calendar, revitalise and level up the domestic leagues by stopping the distortion in quality around a select few clubs.
There's no end of benefits to that course of action, I can't for the life of me think why it never gets considered.
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European Cup, UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup. That would be nice.
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It would help if they reduced the international fixture calendar rather than adding the UEFA Nations League to existing qualifiers and friendlies.
Excluding Champions League teams from the League cup would be better than scrapping it.
It would help if they ceased being grasping bastards and just went back to a straight knockout.
It would add prestige back to, it would ease the burden on the players and the calendar, revitalise and level up the domestic leagues by stopping the distortion in quality around a select few clubs.
There's no end of benefits to that course of action, I can't for the life of me think why it never gets considered.
Here's the thing. If we suddenly kicked on for the rest of the season and qualified for next year's CL, would you rather it be a knock-out competition and risk getting knocked out early for less money or have a group stage where there's a guaranteed pot of money?
Maybe the competition does need to be completely revamped. It seems to have lost it's appeal compared to where it was a few years ago.
I know these dick head owners called it 'Project Big Picture' but rather than looking at one specific competition, maybe they do need to step back and look at the big picture of all elite level football as a whole because it does seem to be a mess, especially at international level.
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European Cup, UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup. That would be nice.
Jonathan Pearce loves mentioning the Fairs Cup
I've had a look at that and see Birmingham have been in the final twice . Found that surprising. Shocked actually but then read more on it.
Did Villa ever partake on this or was Birmingham then used as the representative of the city?
I see it was for teams of trade fairs pre cursor to uefa Cup likes of Juventus and Barcelona were in it.
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They really are Milka’ing this.
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Sounds Emmental.
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European Cup, UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup. That would be nice.
Jonathan Pearce loves mentioning the Fairs Cup
I've had a look at that and see Birmingham have been in the final twice . Found that surprising. Shocked actually but then read more on it.
Did Villa ever partake on this or was Birmingham then used as the representative of the city?
I see it was for teams of trade fairs pre cursor to uefa Cup likes of Juventus and Barcelona were in it.
Initially it involved representative sides for the cites who had trade fairs which is why a London XI made the first final. Birmingham was invited to enter a team but Villa declined to provide players so Blues entered by default but the team in the records is Birmingham not Birmingham City.
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Super league talk will never go away, because whoever is pitching it to Real Madrid, Liverpool etc will always be offering them a bigger share of TV revenues; and not having to worry about pesky things like qualifying for it through domestic competitions.
I think UEFA and FIFA should at some point just call their bluff and tell them on you go.
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No they shouldn't. It would mean Villa would never be able to compete at the top level ever again.
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No they shouldn't. It would mean Villa would never be able to compete at the top level ever again.
You do know how a bluff works ? :D
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I think you're being optimistic in how much intelligence, and, more significantly, interest in anything other than money UEFA and FIFA have.
The new Super League plans will come along. UEFA and FIFA will make lots of noise about how bad it is.
Super League instigators will have talks with UEFA and FIFA to find a compromise.
They will announce that they have come to an agreement that is "in the best interests of football". This will really mean that they have agreed to give UEFA and FIFA a cut.
Super League will go ahead, there will be no relegation for the majority of the established "elite".
The last semblance of football being in any way a competitive sport will be over.
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So money hungry UEFA and FIFA who currently have the rights to the champions league, will sit back let a new organization come in form a new league, poach its members and take a fraction of that TV cash in return?
What's to stop this company creating a new world cup whilst there at it?
Maybe I am being naive but I'd expect UEFA and FIFA to protect their assets.
I think this is exactly the same as that project rebuild/reset or whatever they called it. Empty posturing by teams who want a bigger share of TV revenues.
If for example UEFA and domestic football associations refused to acknowledge this new breakaway league. Teams like Man United would be giving up all that Premier League money! and both the Europa league and C league would be dead in the water in terms of generating money for UEFA.
How would transfers even work if FIFA decide not to play nice?
I just can't see it.
What I can see is stupid changes to the current format being made, and super league talk dying down until the next time Juventus and Real Madrid decide they aren't getting a big enough slice of the pie.
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Apparently a part of this mornings discussions is guaranteed places for certain clubs...no need to qualify so football is gradually disappearing up it's own arse.
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Apparently, Liverpool aren't able to travel to Germany to play their tie against Leipzig. If they're looking for an alternative then they can't beat Brighton. :)
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Apparently a part of this mornings discussions is guaranteed places for certain clubs...no need to qualify so football is gradually disappearing up it's own arse.
Absolute bastards. This new league is clearly the first step to their 'super league' Once it's in place it's very easy to add a few more clubs and suddently a permanent league is ready to go.
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This now need attention and fans to lobby the league and particularly their own clubs.
The proposals will ultimately mean that we will find it almost impossible to qualify for the CL.
Of course 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' and Manure are happy to sacrifice the integrity of the game for their own narrow interests.
It is disgusting.
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It would help if they reduced the international fixture calendar rather than adding the UEFA Nations League to existing qualifiers and friendlies.
Excluding Champions League teams from the League cup would be better than scrapping it.
It would help if they ceased being grasping bastards and just went back to a straight knockout.
It would add prestige back to, it would ease the burden on the players and the calendar, revitalise and level up the domestic leagues by stopping the distortion in quality around a select few clubs.
There's no end of benefits to that course of action, I can't for the life of me think why it never gets considered.
This is exactly my thinking on this too.
I was reading yesterday that, from 2024, the number of Champions League matches will increase from 115 to 225. So that's 217 matches of no interest or relevance, compared to the current 107.
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https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/08/andrea-agnelli-champions-league-reforms-premier-league
Juventus president reckons they're close (2wks away) to an agreement that'll see:
- swiss system with 36 teams playing 10 group games
- pretty much forcing a reduction of 10 domestic games in the English calendar (I.e. reduce Premier League to 18 teams and remove the league cup)
- ban transfers between Champions League teams
- restructure FFP so it goes off the balance sheet rather than profit/loss
He also reckons something along the lines of allowing TV subscriptions for the last 15 minutes of a match to 'attract younger viewers'
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https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/08/andrea-agnelli-champions-league-reforms-premier-league (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/08/andrea-agnelli-champions-league-reforms-premier-league)
Juventus president reckons they're close (2wks away) to an agreement that'll see:
- swiss system with 36 teams playing 10 group games
- pretty much forcing a reduction of 10 domestic games in the English calendar (I.e. reduce Premier League to 18 teams and remove the league cup)
- ban transfers between Champions League teams
- restructure FFP so it goes off the balance sheet rather than profit/loss
He also reckons something along the lines of allowing TV subscriptions for the last 15 minutes of a match to 'attract younger viewers'
An attack on the EPL by the less rich other leagues.
- Clubs in the EPL not included in the European competition will be disadvantaged with lower TV receipts.
- The concept of banning transfers between Champions League teams is a mixed-bag idea: it reduces the internecine nature of buying your direct competitors' best assets and also makes the Euro-clubs more predatory on their local opponents' squads. But it may force upwards the price of good players in the non-Euro teams.
- The fans get to see their club less often (because of the reduction in games) unless they follow a Euro-club.
- This is a rich-get-richer scheme, inevitably.
It's the drive for closed shops and elitism.
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The idea of a separate Super League just won't be accepted so this is a way of introducing it as a league that runs alongside the domestic leagues, rather than replacing them. What it will do it devalue them, in the same way our own FA Cup has been devalued (with plenty of help), moving the final to a Saturday was a deliberate move in this respect.
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I think moving the final toa Saturday was more aimed at maximising TV viewing figures. Americans and Australians aren't at work and Asians are more likely to watch live if they don't have work the next day.
The shittest part of this going to be the inevitable removal of the League Cup effectively reducing the realistic potential of silverware for many clubs by 50%.
It is a false narrative that you can't have the League Cup alongside an expanded Champions League format. They had twelve group games at the start of the twentieth century... and still played FA Cup replays up to the Quarter-Finals then.
In the nineties we also had League Cup replays and, for a while, a 22 team league. The idea that domestic football must reduce ignores the fact that it already has massively.
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10 teams playing each other in a ''division'' is going to lead to a hell of a lot of shit games where there is nothing at stake.
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This is football eating itself.
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Galatasaray vs Tottenham, Wednesday night, 8th vs 7th, neither with a chance of qualifying after 6 games, still 4 matches to play. Sounds utterly pointless. They'll probably have something stupid like the top 8 from each division qualify and make it almost impossible for anyone decent to get knocked out.
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10 teams playing each other in a ''division'' is going to lead to a hell of a lot of shit games where there is nothing at stake.
Not much change then? They could sell it as, 'Even more games you couldn't give a toss about'!
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If I understand the format correctly, it seems like there should be fewer dead rubbers. It is so complicated though I might need to get my PhD in quadratic equations first.
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At least with 6 group games (which I hate btw) you can lose 3 of the first 4 and still have an outside chance of being able to make it through. Game week 5 is crucial and by game week 6 there are a lot of dead rubbers. As you say, now there will be even more dead rubbers and sooner. By game week 8 the majority of the table will be decided. It's a terrible idea. The whole you can't sign a player from another Champions League side, what is the thinking behind that? It will lead to a) Some players being trapped at clubs because they're on a huge wedge and none Champions League clubs cannot afford them b) Champions League sides having to strengthen by hoovering up the remaining talent at non Champions League clubs (Grealish, Maddison etc will become huge targets).
Overall, as usual, it's terribly thought out for football as a whole.
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I am commenting without seeing the plans though and just going off a division of 10 idea, is that what they are going with?
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Why upset everything in domestic football to help finance the greedier clubs to shit on them.
Just let all the greedy clubs fuck off and leave the rest of us alone.
Club Cup competitions should be knock out only - as world cups are 4 years apart international football in leagues is fine
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I'm sorry but the people & clubs who come up with this stuff are just utter self serving thunder ******.
Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Bastards.
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I am commenting without seeing the plans though and just going off a division of 10 idea, is that what they are going with?
I think it is one division of 36... but each team plays ten games. Presumably against ten diferent teams, five at home five away. Based on some seeding formula but I confess not to really understand. They seem to have added a playoff round, too.
So I would guess the best 12 go through automatically, the next eight go into a playoff round. Maybe the four or eight below that would go straight into the Europa League or into another playoff round for that.
All seems a bit Numberwang! at the moment.
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Why upset everything in domestic football to help finance the greedier clubs to shit on them.
Just let all the greedy clubs fuck off and leave the rest of us alone.
Club Cup competitions should be knock out only - as world cups are 4 years apart international football in leagues is fine
Agreed - all club cups should be straight knockout. Ideally unseeded.
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Why upset everything in domestic football to help finance the greedier clubs to shit on them.
Just let all the greedy clubs fuck off and leave the rest of us alone.
Club Cup competitions should be knock out only - as world cups are 4 years apart international football in leagues is fine
Agreed - all club cups should be straight knockout. Ideally unseeded.
Seeding is sanctioned cheating, nothing less.
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If they ban transfers from other CL teams then it will mean that those in the CL, who already have much more money than those outside, will hoover up the talent of any club that does the right things and builds a team that can challenge them. It's another glass ceiling. They can all get ******.
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It's instructive that it's clubs from leagues that don't get anything like the revenue that the Premier League gets that are pushing for this, and will be interesting to see what English clubs make of something that impacts on the league which is their biggest source of revenue. Too many so-called top clubs clubs are too reliant on Champions League money - they would be better off pushing for a structure that strengthens their own leagues and makes them more attractive to broadcasters. Of course, then they would have to give up some of their competitive advantages, so that won't happen.
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Why don't they just adopt the NFL approach?
Also, why do they need to scrap the League cup? Why not just opt out of it or play an U23 team so that their kids get experience of senior football. If we were a CL team, I would want to see the latter for us. I don't see why non CL teams should miss out on the chance of a cup final and silverware.
They had better not be doing away with the idea of having to qualify for it either.
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You would hope that the English clubs would see that this is a ruse for the big European clubs to get a bigger slice of the cake, not bake a bigger cake. There is a limit to how much revenue you can squeeze out of the game and the Premier League will see revenue shrink to accommodate the expanded CL. Of course they will have no relegation from the CL but its financial success is not guaranteed and all they are going to do is make their competitors stronger.
I also think that the new CL will leave UEFA open to unfair competition litigation .
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Also, why do they need to scrap the League cup? Why not just opt out of it or play an U23 team so that their kids get experience of senior football. If we were a CL team, I would want to see the latter for us. I don't see why non CL teams should miss out on the chance of a cup final and silverware.
They had better not be doing away with the idea of having to qualify for it either.
If we were good enough to be a Champions League team, we would be good enough to have a decent chance of winning trophies. I wouldn't want to see us taking the piss with one of them, especially one that has probably given us more great moments than any other competition over the past sixty years.
If you reduce the League Cup to an under-23 competition or allow teams to opt out it instantly ceases being a major trophy and reduces the number of major trophies that many teams can feasibly win by 50%. A terrible idea.
There is no reason to reduce or remove the League Cup. Teams can still take part in it while having more European games... exactly as they used to in the early 2000s.
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Let's face it, they don't care about the other clubs or the league for that matter - all they're botheted about is hoovering up as much money as they can whilst at the same time establishing a virtual cartel when it comes to playing in the Chumps Leahue.
Why don't the other 14 Prem clubs - a voting majority according to Prem rules - vote to throw them out?
Would Arsenal and Spurs leave, knowing that with Man U, Pool, Chelsea and City out of the way, their chances of winning would be greatly improved?
The Prem is a members club. A sufficient majority can set whatever rules they want.
Throw them out I say.
They'd wither on the vine of an ESL.
In 2018-19 (last "full season") their league home games generated:
Man U £110m
Chelsea £67m
Pool £84m
City £56m
Arsenal £96m
Spurs £82m - Spurs has now really increased with the new stadium
Then we can add on prize money and tv money.
Could they recoup that playing in an enlarged ESL?
Think not.
Call their bluff I say.
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i am with you Sadd, the 14 would be nuts to let them do this.
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I am commenting without seeing the plans though and just going off a division of 10 idea, is that what they are going with?
I think it is one division of 36... but each team plays ten games. Presumably against ten diferent teams, five at home five away. Based on some seeding formula but I confess not to really understand. They seem to have added a playoff round, too.
So I would guess the best 12 go through automatically, the next eight go into a playoff round. Maybe the four or eight below that would go straight into the Europa League or into another playoff round for that.
All seems a bit Numberwang! at the moment.
So a division where everyone plays a different set of opponents? That's laughably bad.
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Agreed.
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On that basis I'd assume you would have to play 3 top rank teams, 3 middle rank teams and 3 lower rank teams. Firstly rankings are subjective. Secondly from one season to the next sides abilities can alter dramatically.
Say for instance we applied that ranking to 9 random opponents for us this season based on last seasons standings. We could have ended up with a fixture list of:
Liverpool, Leicester, Tottenham, Sheff Utd, Burnley, Newcastle, West Brom, Brighton, Fulham.
Whilst someone else could get
Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Wolves, Everton, Arsenal, Leeds, West Ham, Crystal Palace.
What a load of bollocks.
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******
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I am commenting without seeing the plans though and just going off a division of 10 idea, is that what they are going with?
I think it is one division of 36... but each team plays ten games. Presumably against ten diferent teams, five at home five away. Based on some seeding formula but I confess not to really understand. They seem to have added a playoff round, too.
So I would guess the best 12 go through automatically, the next eight go into a playoff round. Maybe the four or eight below that would go straight into the Europa League or into another playoff round for that.
All seems a bit Numberwang! at the moment.
So a division where everyone plays a different set of opponents? That's laughably bad.
Basically you do a free/unseeded draw for the first set of games. After that, you draw up a league table, then it's 1st v 2nd, 3rd v 4th, 5th v 6th, ..., 35th v 36th. They play eachother, you do the table again, then its 1st v 2nd, 3rd v 4th, ... you get the picture. On paper you should end up playing mainly teams around your own ability, particularly when you get past the third round of matches.
If done properly it should work out like a straight knockout, so 32 teams = 5 rounds, and the winner should have won all 5 matches. It just gives you a seeding/league table for every other position.
To qualify in the format they've said you'd need roughly 4 wins and a draw from 10 games. So you'd probably start seeing the first pointless games around round 6, and by round 8 or 9 most games will be a bit pointless.
The thing with a swiss system, particularly if you play too many rounds (which they are proposing), is that the middle of the table is *very* variable. You do find a few teams quite out of the right league position based purely on luck (or having played the system*).
* edit: basically because your fixtures are decided by your league position, you get generally easier fixtures if you lose an early match (first 2 or 3 rounds) by a big score, and only win by small scores. It prevents you from finishing top, but that's not really a concern if it's only a qualifying group.
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Does the league split into a knock out once the league games are completed, so top X teams into the European cup and bottom X into the UEFA cup?
There’ll be shit loads of dead rubber games otherwise.
Apologies for not reading the proposals by the way.
I kinda like the idea if that is the case. It means the top 7 or 8 teams qualify for the Daddy Cup, dragging the likes of us in to the mix, and provides the insurance that the Top 4 clubs seemingly demand.
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I am commenting without seeing the plans though and just going off a division of 10 idea, is that what they are going with?
I think it is one division of 36... but each team plays ten games. Presumably against ten diferent teams, five at home five away. Based on some seeding formula but I confess not to really understand. They seem to have added a playoff round, too.
So I would guess the best 12 go through automatically, the next eight go into a playoff round. Maybe the four or eight below that would go straight into the Europa League or into another playoff round for that.
All seems a bit Numberwang! at the moment.
So a division where everyone plays a different set of opponents? That's laughably bad.
Basically you do a free/unseeded draw for the first set of games. After that, you draw up a league table, then it's 1st v 2nd, 3rd v 4th, 5th v 6th, ..., 35th v 36th. They play eachother, you do the table again, then its 1st v 2nd, 3rd v 4th, ... you get the picture. On paper you should end up playing mainly teams around your own ability, particularly when you get past the third round of matches.
If done properly it should work out like a straight knockout, so 32 teams = 5 rounds, and the winner should have won all 5 matches. It just gives you a seeding/league table for every other position.
To qualify in the format they've said you'd need roughly 4 wins and a draw from 10 games. So you'd probably start seeing the first pointless games around round 6, and by round 8 or 9 most games will be a bit pointless.
The thing with a swiss system, particularly if you play too many rounds (which they are proposing), is that the middle of the table is *very* variable. You do find a few teams quite out of the right league position based purely on luck (or having played the system*).
* edit: basically because your fixtures are decided by your league position, you get generally easier fixtures if you lose an early match (first 2 or 3 rounds) by a big score, and only win by small scores. It prevents you from finishing top, but that's not really a concern if it's only a qualifying group.
That sounds insane. Doesn't that also mean you would have no idea who you were playing until two or maybe even one week in advance? That'll be great for away fans, I'm sure. It's almost like the paying fans aren't their main concern.
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Is it just me, or does this seem like a negotiating position? The proposals sound like the most boring wank imaginable, like a Harlem Globetrotters publicity tour. So they're bargaining for something else. Perhaps the concept that certain clubs automatically qualify for CL? That's the most plausible element to me.
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Is it just me, or does this seem like a negotiating position? The proposals sound like the most boring wank imaginable, like a Harlem Globetrotters publicity tour. So they're bargaining for something else. Perhaps the concept that certain clubs automatically qualify for CL? That's the most plausible element to me.
There are 2 major objectives.
1. Get as much cash into the elite clubs as possible.
2. Make the gravy train for said elite clubs perpetual.
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Is it just me, or does this seem like a negotiating position? The proposals sound like the most boring wank imaginable, like a Harlem Globetrotters publicity tour. So they're bargaining for something else. Perhaps the concept that certain clubs automatically qualify for CL? That's the most plausible element to me.
There are 2 major objectives.
1. Get as much cash into the elite clubs as possible.
2. Make the gravy train for said elite clubs perpetual.
Football reflecting society again - sounds like a tory manifesto when read between the lines.
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The thing about stopping transfers between the big clubs is weird. I'm pretty certain that would be restraint of trade (within the EU at least). Either I'm wrong, or they didn't take legal advice which would be stupid, or they ignored legal advice and threw it out there because they are not serious and are just manoeuvring.
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The thing about stopping transfers between the big clubs is weird. I'm pretty certain that would be restraint of trade (within the EU at least). Either I'm wrong, or they didn't take legal advice which would be stupid, or they ignored legal advice and threw it out there because they are not serious and are just manoeuvring.
I would also suggested that unfair competition would apply.
Good to see Purslow has come out against it
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Why can’t football just left to be football.
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The thing about stopping transfers between the big clubs is weird. I'm pretty certain that would be restraint of trade (within the EU at least). Either I'm wrong, or they didn't take legal advice which would be stupid, or they ignored legal advice and threw it out there because they are not serious and are just manoeuvring.
It's a double edged sword too. Yes, it stops them taking their best players off eachother who they don't want to sell but it also means they're going to find it hard to sell players that they do want to sell.
The player would have to join one of the clubs outside of those and probably a drop in wages. It is a restraint of trade on those players. I just can't see that being workable.
Watch the valuations of players outside of that elite go absolutely nuts too. Whatever Jack is worth now, imagine what it would be if those clubs couldn't trade with eachother and had no choice but to look outside of that.
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The thing about stopping transfers between the big clubs is weird. I'm pretty certain that would be restraint of trade (within the EU at least). Either I'm wrong, or they didn't take legal advice which would be stupid, or they ignored legal advice and threw it out there because they are not serious and are just manoeuvring.
It's a double edged sword too. Yes, it stops them taking their best players off eachother who they don't want to sell but it also means they're going to find it hard to sell players that they do want to sell.
The player would have to join one of the clubs outside of those and probably a drop in wages. It is a restraint of trade on those players. I just can't see that being workable.
Watch the valuations of players outside of that elite go absolutely nuts too. Whatever Jack is worth now, imagine what it would be if those clubs couldn't trade with eachother and had no choice but to look outside of that.
That's an interesting point.
Champions League teams' players would end up being difficult to shift, so their value would plummet. At the same time, CL-standard players playing at clubs outside that elite would have no end of rich suitors, so would skyrocket. You'd have a bizarre situation where Southampton would have a more valuable squad than Man City...
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After Bosman its a non starter, its just a red herring tossed in their so every one will ignore the bigger prize.
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Will there still be qualifiers? Because otherwise then, theoretically, any league champion could be a Champions League team. Will Barcelona, Man City and so on really want to effectively ban themselves from signing the best players from, say, Ajax or Porto? Seems like madness.
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As Jonathan Lieu has said today. Tell them to get lost and call their bluff. If they use the threat of a European super league, go on then fuck off and do it.
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As Jonathan Lieu has said today. Tell them to get lost and call their bluff. If they use the threat of a European super league, go on then fuck off and do it.
And its about time the owners of the clubs suggesting this (yes Manchester United and Liverpool I'm looking at you) were bought to task for their role in this, there's too much beating around the bush with no real person owning it, all suggestions here and there leaked to the media and seemingly far too much influence at a compliant UEFA.
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As Jonathan Lieu has said today. Tell them to get lost and call their bluff. If they use the threat of a European super league, go on then fuck off and do it.
Totally agree.
I have been saying that at some point Football will split and there will be competing Associations. The FIFA- UEFA - Local League Associations has held together so far but at some point it will blow. We could be seeing the beginning of this.
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As Jonathan Lieu has said today. Tell them to get lost and call their bluff. If they use the threat of a European super league, go on then fuck off and do it.
Totally agree.
I have been saying that at some point Football will split and there will be competing Associations. The FIFA- UEFA - Local League Associations has held together so far but at some point it will blow. We could be seeing the beginning of this.
Tell them if they want it then they're out the league, for good, and if it's goes tits up you can only come back at the lowest level. No way should they be allowed to do both, the impact of their closed income stream on the already crippled domestic leagues would kill it.
No, you fuck off into your Kerry Packer-lite and see how you get on without your bread and butter.
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Why can’t football just left to be football.
I'm with you for what it's worth.
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As Jonathan Lieu has said today. Tell them to get lost and call their bluff. If they use the threat of a European super league, go on then fuck off and do it.
Totally agree.
I have been saying that at some point Football will split and there will be competing Associations. The FIFA- UEFA - Local League Associations has held together so far but at some point it will blow. We could be seeing the beginning of this.
Tell them if they want it then they're out the league, for good, and if it's goes tits up you can only come back at the lowest level. No way should they be allowed to do both, the impact of their closed income stream on the already crippled domestic leagues would kill it.
No, you fuck off into your Kerry Packer-lite and see how you get on without your bread and butter.
Oh 100% - if they want to be their little Euro club then they should be expelled from the domestic stuff.
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The arrogance of these twats is breathtaking. The idea that the global armchair fan will be any more interested in watching a mid-table clash between PSG and Man City than they would be in seeing a brutal Old Firm game is mental.
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The arrogance of these twats is breathtaking. The idea that the global armchair fan will be any more interested in watching a mid-table clash between PSG and Man City than they would be in seeing a brutal Old Firm game is mental.
Yes, and there's a responsibility from local leagues to better-educate the global armchair fans beyond the obvious top 2 or 3 clubs in their league. Many of the Premier Leagues have interesting histories and current initiatives, and I wonder how much of that is really known and understood elsewhere.
Watching Sky and BT currently educates only about the usual 3-4 clubs.
Individual clubs could also do more to present themselves to a wider geographic audience.
Developing better awareness will -I'm sure - create greater pressure on maintaining a strong Premier League demand and a correspondingly lower interest in some drab Euro-League.
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I thought we had a thread on this already but I can't for the life of me find it.
Anyway - looks virtually certain now - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56573883
The bit I hadn't heard before though is the introduction of two "wildcards" in to the competition - ie teams who haven't qualified through merit being invited to participate on some spurious UEFA coefficient.
And I thought the drawbridge couldn't be pulled up any more!
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Basically make sure the top teams qualify regardless of whether they make it on merit.
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And make it impossible for fans to attend without spending an absolute fortune on flights etc as you won't know who you're playing until a week in advance!
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More significantly, it will probably be the end of the League Cup, because giving teams a chance to win a trophy is much less important than giving already rich clubs more money.
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So on the basis of the co-efficient, Liverpool would get to qualify for the Champions League next season by finishing 7th in the Premier League. That's nice.
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Another nail in the coffin of football.
I prefer the option of one legged league cup semis and no FA Cup replays, but I’m not holding my breathe.
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Time to tell Liverpool, Manure, Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus et al to f*ck off and set up a permanent European Super League - if they are so hellbent on destroying the game as a competition then screw them all.
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I see that UEFA have now put back its decision on this to 19 April.
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I really cant believe there is an appetite for this shit !
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Time to tell Liverpool, Manure, Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus et al to f*ck off and set up a permanent European Super League - if they are so hellbent on destroying the game as a competition then screw them all.
And take Grealish with them? No thanks. Villa should always aim to compete at the top level. If that happened we would be second tier, at best, for all time.
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Fucking ******. Total ******.
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Time to tell Liverpool, Manure, Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus et al to f*ck off and set up a permanent European Super League - if they are so hellbent on destroying the game as a competition then screw them all.
And take Grealish with them? No thanks. Villa should always aim to compete at the top level. If that happened we would be second tier, at best, for all time.
Something like this would lead to a split between UEFA and FIFA, and potentially impact on players international careers as well - whilst in the short-term it might attract a lot of sponsorship, it will soon wither when the lack of competition strangles the health of the product. They seem to want to create an NFL type perpetual structure, but in a sport where there are tens of thousands of existing teams and hundreds of leagues.
To be honest I'm surprised any of the English clubs are involved - unlike elsewhere, they derive the majority of their broadcast income from the League, not Europe and that is guaranteed money as well. The only reason for participating in this is to kill off all domestic competition and we shouldn't want any part of it. That being the case, the other Premier League clubs should be telling them to do one, and if they join this structure which leads to a smaller league, no League Cup and guaranteed European football on anything other than merit then they can no longer be part of the Premier League. I'd rather be part of the second tier of a pyramid, than the top tier of a closed shop.
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I understand your point, but just don't want to resign myself to us losing any good player we produce ever again, reduced to Small Heath style vicarious thrills through our former players playing for "big" clubs.
I'm certainly onboard with the other clubs threatening to kick them out of the Premier League as leverage if they try to abolish the League Cup or move the FA Cup to a midweek competition or any other horrific idea I've seen mooted.
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The thing about this is that the two clubs who are pushing it in England both have American owners and so are ingrained with their non promotion/relegation aspect of competitions.
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I really cant believe there is an appetite for this shit !
I doubt there is much of a sporting appetite for it in general but there will be a big financial appetite for it amongst the European big guns/usual Champions League suspects.
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The problem with telling them to do one is that it's a UEFA problem. Would our league then be ratified? What's FIFA's take?
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The point has been made before, but the clubs in question are only high-profile because of their history - whether over 10, 20 or 100 years - of winning football matches.
The disparity in finances across most European leagues means that most domestic opposition are little more than whipping boys. Deprived of their supply of cannon fodder, and playing each other every week, they can't all be 'winners' in the way they are now.
After 25 years of expansion and commercialisation, and with TV audiences now more important to most of these clubs than the fans who actually turn up, their success (ie winning games almost every week) has become an important element of their identities. Losing that could result in a pretty radical reimagining of the football landscape and a given club's perceived place within it.
Take the 'glory' away and you're left with quite a few clubs who are little more than fairly non-descript businesses with identikit stadia, bland colours and a dwindling connection to their local communities. All in my opinion, of course.
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After 25 years of expansion and commercialisation, and with TV audiences now more important to most of these clubs than the fans who actually turn up, their success (ie winning games almost every week) has become an important element of their identities. Losing that could result in a pretty radical reimagining of the football landscape and a given club's perceived place within it.
Take the 'glory' away and you're left with quite a few clubs who are little more than fairly non-descript businesses with identikit stadia, bland colours and a dwindling connection to their local communities. All in my opinion, of course.
You've sold it to me.
Let them go.
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I understand your point, but just don't want to resign myself to us losing any good player we produce ever again, reduced to Small Heath style vicarious thrills through our former players playing for "big" clubs.
I'm certainly onboard with the other clubs threatening to kick them out of the Premier League as leverage if they try to abolish the League Cup or move the FA Cup to a midweek competition or any other horrific idea I've seen mooted.
That sends me off on a wild tangent. Who was the last player who came through our ranks and stayed with us until he retired, apart from injuries and Gabby, who was only here that long because we couldn't get rid of him?
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After 25 years of expansion and commercialisation, and with TV audiences now more important to most of these clubs than the fans who actually turn up, their success (ie winning games almost every week) has become an important element of their identities. Losing that could result in a pretty radical reimagining of the football landscape and a given club's perceived place within it.
Take the 'glory' away and you're left with quite a few clubs who are little more than fairly non-descript businesses with identikit stadia, bland colours and a dwindling connection to their local communities. All in my opinion, of course.
You've sold it to me.
Let them go.
Let them go and tell them there is zero chance of ever returning. Offer financial support to local supporters to start phoenix clubs to replace them.
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I understand your point, but just don't want to resign myself to us losing any good player we produce ever again, reduced to Small Heath style vicarious thrills through our former players playing for "big" clubs.
I'm certainly onboard with the other clubs threatening to kick them out of the Premier League as leverage if they try to abolish the League Cup or move the FA Cup to a midweek competition or any other horrific idea I've seen mooted.
That sends me off on a wild tangent. Who was the last player who came through our ranks and stayed with us until he retired, apart from injuries and Gabby, who was only here that long because we couldn't get rid of him?
Buggered if know, I was thinking Charlie Aitken but according to Wikipedia he finished his career at New York Cosmos.
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Other than Brian Little I can't think of anyone else.
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"apart from injuries".
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I think Brian Little might be right. Every one I've managed to come up - Gary Shaw, Tony Daley, Gary Williams, Paul Birch, Lee Hendrie etc.- all finished their careers at lower levels.
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Financial shithousery?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/01/europes-biggest-clubs-accused-stitch-champions-league-revamp/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_Aw5mLJBLPq6S
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Isn't the Champions League drab enough? It doesn't even get interesting until the knock outs.
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Slightly off topic....but do we really want to be in the Europa League?
Matches against teams we’ve never heard of from countries we’ve never heard of either
Play about 30 games only to get knocked out in the last 16
Just seems such a distraction with very little interest - unless the money makes it worthwhile
The old UEFA Cup was another matter
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I'd rather be in the Champions League. But would be delighted with any European football. We need to win trophies, having an extra one to go for is a great help. I think most people have heard of all the European countries and Liverpool, Juventus, Celtic, Borussia Dortmund and a few other clubs of a similar stature who look likely to be involved next season.
In any case, I've seen us play the likes of Man U and Chelsea a million times. A tie against some mysterious unknowns from the continent is far more interesting.
It would be a sign of our development, and allow us to attract a higher quality level of player.
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Slightly off topic....but do we really want to be in the Europa League?
Matches against teams we’ve never heard of from countries we’ve never heard of either
Play about 30 games only to get knocked out in the last 16
Just seems such a distraction with very little interest - unless the money makes it worthwhile
The old UEFA Cup was another matter
Completely disagree with this. The Europa League last 8
Arsenal
Man U
Granada
Villareal
Slavia Prague
Roma
Ajax
Dinamo Zagreb
And the clubs that got knocked out in the last round were no slouches either. Yes its changed since the UEFA Cup was changed and teams finsihing in 2/3/4 were in it but thats where we are. I can't understand anyone not wanting their team to be playing in Europe. It just goes counter to everything you should be striving for as a football club.
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I'd rather be in the Champions League. But would be delighted with any European football. We need to win trophies, having an extra one to go for is a great help. I think most people have heard of all the European countries and Liverpool, Juventus, Celtic, Borussia Dortmund and a few other clubs of a similar stature who look likely to be involved next season.
In any case, I've seen us play the likes of Man U and Chelsea a million times. A tie against some mysterious unknowns from the continent is far more interesting.
It would be a sign of our development, and allow us to attract a higher quality level of player.
Yeah, this pretty much echoes my thoughts. We're now at a stage where our first 11 is arguably pushing on top 4/6 standard, but we don't have the squad depth to sustain that push through injuries or bad form. The Europa League will give us enough extra games - and meaningful ones - that we clos realistically look at having 2 strong players in every position, with each if them getting a decent enough number of games so they're still in contention for their respective national teams.
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My concern is that it inhibits progress to the Champions League which should be our focus.
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You literally qualify for the Champions League if you win it. You also attract better players and are forced to have a deeper squad. Both of these things increase your chances of finishing in the top four.
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You literally qualify for the Champions League if you win it. You also attract better players and are forced to have a deeper squad. Both of these things increase your chances of finishing in the top four.
You also have to play loads of matches and suffer disruptive travel. I think it is difficult to do that and reach the Top 4, which is going to be extremely difficult anyway. I accept there are 2 ways of looking at it.
I would enjoy some fun away days though.
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The best teams are able to cope. If that's what we aspire to be, we should too. Extra games are extra opportunities to give players a game and makes it easier to keep hold of vital squad players who may not play every game in the Premier League.
The top four at the end of this season will likely all have played in Europe this campaign so it is hardly hardly insurmountable challenge. It is very rare, though admittedly not impossible, to go straight from not in Europe to top four. Europa League to Champions League is a natural progression.
We also seem to have lots of promising kids. It would be a great test for some of them to get the odd game here and there.
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The best teams are able to cope. If that's what we aspire to be, we should too. Extra games are extra opportunities to give players a game and makes it easier to keep hold of vital squad players who may not play every game in the Premier League.
The top four at the end of this season will likely all have played in Europe this campaign so it is hardly hardly insurmountable challenge. It is very rare, though admittedly not impossible, to go straight from not in Europe to top four. Europa League to Champions League is a natural progression.
We also seem to have lots of promising kids. It would be a great test for some of them to get the odd game here and there.
I agree with cdbullyweefan.
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The best teams are able to cope. If that's what we aspire to be, we should too. Extra games are extra opportunities to give players a game and makes it easier to keep hold of vital squad players who may not play every game in the Premier League.
The top four at the end of this season will likely all have played in Europe this campaign so it is hardly hardly insurmountable challenge. It is very rare, though admittedly not impossible, to go straight from not in Europe to top four. Europa League to Champions League is a natural progression.
We also seem to have lots of promising kids. It would be a great test for some of them to get the odd game here and there.
Yeah, to be honest I'd be happy enough if we played our reserves in every game, so this season something like:
Heaton
Elmo - Engels - Hause - Taylor
Hourihane - Marv
Trez - Ramsay - AEG
Davis
Fair enough, we'd not win anything with that side. But all of those players would look match fit when we needed them in the first team, which is entirely the point. We need competition for every position on the pitch, which means even our 21st and 22nd best players need to be clocking up 20-odd appearances so that we can attract suitably good candidates.
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You could play more first team players than that without too much risk. A mixture of reserves and first team players for the groups then go for it from the knockout stages.
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Bring more of the kids through.
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I love playing teams I hardly know anything about.
Something magical about European games, even if it's not in the Champion's League.
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Looks like the restructuring's going ahead ...
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/16/champions-league-new-36-team-format-set-for-uefa-approval-on-monday
New 36-team Champions League format set for final Uefa approval on Monday
The Champions League’s controversial new 36-team format from 2024 is set for final approval by Uefa’s executive committee on Monday.
A decision had initially been expected on 31 March but was delayed due to some clubs within the European Club Association (ECA) seeking a greater say on commercial matters for the new competition.
Meetings of the ECA board and Uefa’s club competitions committee on Friday appear to have cleared the way for the new format to be rubber-stamped. It is understood the differences that led to the first delay have been set aside rather than resolved.
The expanded “Swiss style” format is a cause of concern for the Premier League and many other European domestic competitions, while on Friday morning fans’ groups wrote an open letter to the ECA’s chairman, Andrea Agnelli, criticising it.
Arsenal and Manchester United supporters’ groups accused their own clubs of being involved in a “blatant power grab” over plans to reform the Champions League.
The open letter to Agnelli, signed by 17 fans’ groups from 14 clubs who are represented on the ECA board, said: “Your plans to restructure the Champions League by increasing the number of games, introducing qualification based on past achievements, and monopolising commercial rights present a serious threat to the entire game.”
European football’s governing body will also make a final decision on host venues for Euro 2020, with Bilbao, Dublin and Munich the three cities yet to be confirmed of the original 12.
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Whispers that this breakaway league is gathering pace. The sky 6 are involved apparently.
Something is meant to be going to press tonight.
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Whispers that this breakaway league is gathering pace. The sky 6 are involved apparently.
Something is meant to be going to press tonight.
If the future is games such as that semi final last night, then it can't happen quick enough.
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Hope the PL kick the 6 out, as a closed shop European league surely devalues the PL itself.
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Looks like there's 5 of the so called big six who've signed up to this new European Super League.
I'm assuming the 6 will be;
Man City
Liverpool
Man Utd
Chelsea
Spurs
Arsenal
Not sure if the last two have any particular claim to it. Anyway let them go, I won't miss them nor will I pay to watch...
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It's those six plus Real and Atletico Madrid, Barcelon, Inter and AC Milan and Juventus. A "European" Super League consisting of clubs from just three countries and seven cities, and not including either of last year's European Cup finalists.
Hope they get kicked out of their domestic leagues, the new tournament proves a massive failure and they all have to start again at non-league level.
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Off they fuck then.
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makes me laugh when BBC, SKY etc say "big 6"....
Spurs never win anything.... Blues and Wigan have won more than them in recent years. I know it's about revenue etc - but I'd be embarrassed to fuck if I was a Spurs fan to be put in that bile-filled category.
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https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/18/five-english-clubs-sign-up-to-european-super-league-report-says?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Well, they can sod off completely. Chuck them out of all FA, UEFA and FIFA competitions - clubs and players.
DAZN - rumoured to be behind the "breakaway" is an online sports streaming service which holds the rights to stream a lot of European football globally. It wouldn't surprise me if in retaliation, the various FAs across the globe and UEFA/ FIFA affiliated competitions pull their games from DAZN.
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They can sod off to their "Superleague" football wilderness.
Without the benefit of 40 odd league and cup domestic games and the attendant TV money, wonder how long they could sustain their current business models?
To be sure, they'd soon run out of away fans prepared to travel, would they get enough tourists to make up the numbers?
Guess the backers of this are hoping to get sufficient swivel eyed foreign plastics willing to pay tv subscriptions to make it stack up financially.
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they don't need fans; that's probably the unsaid thoughts of those involved - and the last 12 months probably proves that. Wankers.
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The hubris, entitlement and down right shamelessness of these pricks is such that I'm actively willing them to get to fuck. That the project will fail is beyond doubt and they'll deserve all the ordure that awaits them. The effluent is about to reach the affluent, and I can't wait to see it.
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Wonder if the PL has got the balls to tell them to do one.
The remaining 15 need to show these twats up for what they are.
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Driven by American and Middle Eastern owners who want to protect the investment. No relegation, franchise model that can be expanded worldwide if necessary and plenty of worldwide subscribers. They can fuck off as far as I’m concerned, fed up with their constant greed for more
Money and no risk to their capital.
C****.
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Will be very annoyed if the rest of the Premier League bow down to them. They have to be kicked out, and add a requirement, informal or formal, that nobody sells players to them, either. Would be nice if the league refuses to sell broadcasting rights to anyone that televises this event, too.
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Can not understand how the remaining clubs can allow them to do this. It would be Turkeys voting for Christmas.
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UEFA, the English Football Association and the Premier League, the Royal Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) and LaLiga, and the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) and Lega Serie A have learned that a few English, Spanish and Italian clubs may be planning to announce their creation of a closed, so-called Super League.
If this were to happen, we wish to reiterate that we – UEFA, the English FA, RFEF, FIGC, the Premier League, LaLiga, Lega Serie A, but also FIFA and all our member associations - will remain united in our efforts to stop this cynical project, a project that is founded on the self-interest of a few clubs at a time when society needs solidarity more than ever.
We will consider all measures available to us, at all levels, both judicial and sporting in order to prevent this happening. Football is based on open competitions and sporting merit; it cannot be any other way.
As previously announced by FIFA and the six Federations, the clubs concerned will be banned from playing in any other competition at domestic, European or world level, and their players could be denied the opportunity to represent their national teams.
We thank those clubs in other countries, especially the French and German clubs, who have refused to sign up to this. We call on all lovers of football, supporters and politicians, to join us in fighting against such a project if it were to be announced. This persistent self-interest of a few has been going on for too long. Enough is enough.
Joint statement (https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/mediaservices/mediareleases/news/0268-12121411400e-7897186e699a-1000--statement-by-uefa-the-english-football-association-the-premier-/)
Pass me the popcorn :)
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Wonder if the PL has got the balls to tell them to do one.
The remaining 15 need to show these twats up for what they are.
Absolutely right. Over to you Premier League.
Gary Neville just talked about an immediate points deduction. That's a start but I would relegate each of the teams that have signed up.
If there isn't a punishment for this then we may as well pack it in.
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Will be very annoyed if the rest of the Premier League bow down to them. They have to be kicked out, and add a requirement, informal or formal, that nobody sells players to them, either.
I know I ought not to have any expectations of the kind of people who own Premier League clubs, but I can't see that it's in their interests to do anything but what you suggest, cd. Cue bewildering disappointment.
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Kick them out immediately. Let Leicester and West Ham battle it out for the title. We would still have a decent chance of making the Champions League, too...
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Amen.
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Ban them from the league. Fuck them off.
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Let them go and all play their super games with each other.
I wouldn’t miss them one bit.
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These people really do not understand football. They are not creating anything that a European football fan would enjoy.
Well perhaps a few.
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So maybe just a ploy to soften the blow of the UEFA proposal which is due any day now.
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Let them go and all play their super games with each other.
I wouldn’t miss them one bit.
this.
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let them fuck off.... then when one of these ****** clubs wants to buy one of our players we can hike the price up by tens of millions :)
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Good to see UEFA and the various national FAs calling them out.
Time for them to get tough and tell them to bugger off.
Looks as if the Bundesliga and Ligue 1 clubs (Bayern, Borrusia Dortmund, PSG, Marseilles, Lyon etc.) aren't involved.
English, Spanish and Italian clubs leading the money grabbers.
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good riddance
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Big six my arse.
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Reading these paragraphs in the Joint Statement makes me think that UEFA & Co have been expecting this sort of breakaway move and had the statement ready and waiting to go.
The unanimity expressed about chucking the greedy wankers out wasn't reached in an emergency Zoom meeting. They were ready and waiting and have rolled their tanks out.
"We will consider all measures available to us, at all levels, both judicial and sporting in order to prevent this happening. Football is based on open competitions and sporting merit; it cannot be any other way.
As previously announced by FIFA and the six Federations, the clubs concerned will be banned from playing in any other competition at domestic, European or world level, and their players could be denied the opportunity to represent their national teams.".
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Good of the French and German clubs not to sign up, I for one hope the so called big 6 fuck off and are kicked out of their respective leagues. With the same handful of clubs playing each other the fans would soon get bored.
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I think this is their trump card played now to make sure UEFA push through the proposed new CL format.
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A European Super League where 50% of the English teams haven't won the European Cup or Champions League, hopefully it'll all be shown exclusively on Disney, off you fuck then.
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I think this is their trump card played now to make sure UEFA push through the proposed new CL format.
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I think this is their trump card played now to make sure UEFA push through the proposed new CL format.
I hope they've overplayed it.
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No Irish representation either. :( https://twitter.com/FinnHarpsFC/status/1383808652750905347
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10th placed Arsenal but no Bayern Munich. Good luck fellas!
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Steve Stride has said, just look at the viewing figures for the CL. Tells you the amount if interest there will be.
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Kick all 11 sides out their leagues and ban them from Europe, ban their players from playing international football and let them fuck off into oblivion.
If I was a season ticket holder at any of the 5 English clubs, I'd feel absolutely betrayed.
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good riddance
Yes, screw them! We won't miss them and I honestly believe they will find the grass isn't greener.
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Whilst I would say good riddance, I don't want it to happen, mostly because DAZN are apparently interested and I currently subscribe to them for the princely sum of €2 per month to get all the boxing I could ever want. If they get this Euro Super-Duper league too, they'll likely put up the price and I'll be forced to choose between paying more and supporting something I don't like to keep the boxing, or giving up the boxing entirely.
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Basically they want it to become a ‘virtual video’ game.
Fuck em. Let em go.
Kicked out of all domestic competitions, players unable to play for their countries.
Sounds really exciting........not.
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Kick all 11 sides out their leagues and ban them from Europe, ban their players from playing international football and let them fuck off into oblivion.
If I was a season ticket holder at any of the 5 English clubs, I'd feel absolutely betrayed.
This.
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In a couple of years it will be expanded to allow the ‘top’ Teams from China, Japan and America. Chuck in a couple if Saudi clubs and it will because a farce.
All streamed on line for a global audience of people who have never set foot in a ground.
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Fotball as scripted event...
Results decided behind closed corporate doors.
Hell, we already closed enough to that alternate reality with VAR...
No thanks.
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In a couple of years it will be expanded to allow the ‘top’ Teams from China, Japan and America. Chuck in a couple if Saudi clubs and it will because a farce.
All streamed on line for a global audience of people who have never set foot in a ground.
I won't be watching (legally/paying)
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Good. The quicker they go the better. They've been arsing about with this for ages. I won't lose a minutes sleep. Those players should not be able to participate in any UEFA or FIFA sanctioned events. Want to go rogue, go rogue. Let's see how popular it becomes then when the same teams play each other over and over again. All contracts will be voided too. They would only be able to transfer between themselves also. It will get boring very, very quickly.
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Fair play to Gary Neville.
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I wonder how many fans of the clubs involved actually want this? And how many players for those clubs a really up for it?
What is it ? 12 teams, 6 English, 3 Spanish and 2 Italian ?
Enthralling.
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I remember going to bars in France/Spain/Portugal in the late 80s/early 90s.
People watched the European Cup, UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup - they were decent tournaments. Tournaments played on merit.
This is bullshit.
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Fair play to Gary Neville.
That was a majestic and bang on the button tirade from Gary Neville. Take a bow Gary.
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Perhaps Randy did us the biggest favour, making us shite.
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I wonder how many fans of the clubs involved actually want this? And how many players for those clubs a really up for it?
What is it ? 12 teams, 6 English, 3 Spanish and 2 Italian ?
Enthralling.
Exactly, no PSG or Bayern Munich, no relegation would just be a total bore in no time.
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Gary Neville. Wow. Passion.
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Fair play to Gary Neville.
Just the 6 points Gary? How about make it hurt, 30 would be a good start.
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Imagine if we are one of the six...
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The Premier League clubs supposedly involved will be making a statement tonight. Apparently this is driven and supported by six Premier League clubs and three clubs each from Germany, Italy and Spain.
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I can't bear to do it (unless we've beaten them), but has anyone been on the forums of the 9th, 7th, 6th, 5th and 2nd placed teams to see what they think of this?
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Gary Neville. Wow. Passion.
Deduct points and relegate them ! It was a great rant and absolutely on the button. And that from a Man Utd man. Fair play to him.
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Hats off to Neville on his comments. Passionate stuff.
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The Glazers, the John Henry's of this world have zero concept of or interest in the history of the game or the integrity of competition.
They may as well be selling washing powder or insurance.
The beauty of football, the soul of football leaves them cold.
Dead behind the eyes the lot of them.
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I can't bear to do it (unless we've beaten them), but has anyone been on the forums of the 9th, 7th, 6th, 5th and 2nd placed teams to see what they think of this?
It's evidently not necessarily representative but most Man City fans on Blue Moon are saying that they would be done with Man City if it went ahead, it's about even on RAWK before they locked the thread.
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Be interesting what Sky's position is on this if of course it comes to fruition, the Premier League had been their jewel in the crown but it's been eroded these past few years with BT & Amazon, the broadcast rights would be astronomical but you'd think before signing up to any deal someone must be lined up to pay the asking fee to broadcast.
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Snippet of Gary Neville if you didn’t see it. Really well said
https://twitter.com/skysportspl/status/1383832540054659082?s=21
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If that's what they want to do, so be it but they should be expelled from the Premier League if they do. If they have to choose, let's see what they do then and if still go then let's see how things are in a few years time. My sense is that they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face. The top sides left behind will become stronger and the European Super League will probably get boring very quickly. Even a Man United fan I speak to says that European competition was at it's best when only champions took part in the European Cup and everyone else played in the UEFA cup where you could be drawn against someone you hadn't played/wouldn't play for years. I imagine a lot of us would empathize with that view.
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Goodbye and fuck off to them, let Rangers and Celtic join a new Premier League here with 18 teams, I’ll happily watch that and will ignore all the bollox of the money grabbers.
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Can one of the mods please merge this with the thread in Heroes Discussion please? I set this one up because I couldn't find the other one but there's no point discussion on the same point now happening on two threads.
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Goodbye and fuck off to them, let Rangers and Celtic join a new Premier League here with 18 teams, I’ll happily watch that and will ignore all the bollox of the money grabbers.
Well, I’m not sure that wrecking the Scottish PL is a fair option.
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I can't bear to do it (unless we've beaten them), but has anyone been on the forums of the 9th, 7th, 6th, 5th and 2nd placed teams to see what they think of this?
It's evidently not necessarily representative but most Man City fans on Blue Moon are saying that they would be done with Man City if it went ahead, it's about even on RAWK before they locked the thread.
Thanks mate. I suspected as much.
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Goodbye and fuck off to them, let Rangers and Celtic join a new Premier League here with 18 teams, I’ll happily watch that and will ignore all the bollox of the money grabbers.
Well, I’m not sure that wrecking the Scottish PL is a fair option.
Most fans of non-Old Firm teams are desperate for them to GTF.
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The government's of UK, Spain and Italy should introduce a 99% income tax rate and corporation tax for any of these twats going into the Super League.
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Snippet of Gary Neville if you didn’t see it. Really well said
https://twitter.com/skysportspl/status/1383832540054659082?s=21
Great call. As soon as a statement of intent is released, relegated straight to the conference.
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Can we reSnippet of Gary Neville if you didn’t see it. Really well said
https://twitter.com/skysportspl/status/1383832540054659082?s=21
Great call. As soon as a statement of intent is released, relegated straight to the conference.
Bang on. Kick them out.
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Goodbye and fuck off to them, let Rangers and Celtic join a new Premier League here with 18 teams, I’ll happily watch that and will ignore all the bollox of the money grabbers.
An ironic solution to the problem. Well done.
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French and German clubs are not touching this with a stick.
Maybe they can get some Russian clubs to fill in the vacancies...
Need the right mix of corruption and greed to match the Italians in this endeavor.
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Well said Gary Neville.
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Can we reSnippet of Gary Neville if you didn’t see it. Really well said
https://twitter.com/skysportspl/status/1383832540054659082?s=21
Great call. As soon as a statement of intent is released, relegated straight to the conference.
Forget the Conference. They need expulsion from the whole pyramid with the stipulation that any reinstatement needs to be applied for and needs to be at nineth tier. A decade minimum to work back up to the Premier League might momentarily focus a few minds.
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Can't express how much I hate this. What chance would we ever have of keeping hold of a Grealish ever again? The monumental disgrace of this should shame anyone with a pulse - and the sight of the sleazebag arrivistes of Spurs leaping gleefully to hang out with their betters makes me sick. Fuck me, go on Leicester and West Ham this season, break the fuckers up.
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Can't express how much I hate this. What chance would we ever have of keeping hold of a Grealish ever again? The monumental disgrace of this should shame anyone with a pulse - and the sight of the sleazebag arrivistes of Spurs leaping gleefully to hang out with their betters makes me sick. Fuck me, go on Leicester and West Ham this season, break the fuckers up.
We bump the price ten fold. They want greed, then bump goes the cost.
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Can't express how much I hate this. What chance would we ever have of keeping hold of a Grealish ever again? The monumental disgrace of this should shame anyone with a pulse - and the sight of the sleazebag arrivistes of Spurs leaping gleefully to hang out with their betters makes me sick. Fuck me, go on Leicester and West Ham this season, break the fuckers up.
Spurs, the giants who haven't won their domestic league for 60 years.
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You would hope that not being able to represent their countries at the Euros or World Cup would make a lot of players question whether they want to play in a 12 team breakaway competition.
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Well said Gary Neville.
Absolutely. His particular scorn for ManU, Liverpool and mid-table Arsenal followed by "I'm not really bothered about Tottenham" was perfect shade.
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Can't express how much I hate this. What chance would we ever have of keeping hold of a Grealish ever again? The monumental disgrace of this should shame anyone with a pulse - and the sight of the sleazebag arrivistes of Spurs leaping gleefully to hang out with their betters makes me sick. Fuck me, go on Leicester and West Ham this season, break the fuckers up.
Spurs, the giants who haven't won their domestic league for 60 years.
They won the League Cup in 2007-08. Super.
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Can't express how much I hate this. What chance would we ever have of keeping hold of a Grealish ever again? The monumental disgrace of this should shame anyone with a pulse - and the sight of the sleazebag arrivistes of Spurs leaping gleefully to hang out with their betters makes me sick. Fuck me, go on Leicester and West Ham this season, break the fuckers up.
Spurs, the giants who haven't won their domestic league for 60 years.
And even than have won it twice in their entire history.
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Would Harry Kane for example want to sacrifice being captain of his country and potentially the all time goal scorer and trade all that in for battling with Arsenal for finishing bottom of a dull, exhibition league?
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Would Harry Kane for example want to sacrifice being captain of his country and potentially the all time goal scorer and trade all that in for battling with Arsenal for finishing bottom of a dull, exhibition league?
To be fair, he strikes me as the kind of man who could be distracted by a 50 pence piece and the promise of a trip to Disneyland.
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Never thought I'd feel warm feelings for Bayern Munich.
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So do they want to play in this new league as well as staying in the PL?
Also they obviously wouldn’t be able to play in the CL?
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Would Harry Kane for example want to sacrifice being captain of his country and potentially the all time goal scorer and trade all that in for battling with Arsenal for finishing bottom of a dull, exhibition league?
To be fair, he strikes me as the kind of man who could be distracted by a 50 pence piece and the promise of a trip to Disneyland.
If he was concerned about money he would have left Spurs years ago.
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Have Bayern snubbed it or have they been forced to by being 51% fan owned ?
I fear when this happens, it may effect us and the owners have bought us to be one of the big boys again, if that's become a closed shop does their ambitions and interest end with it ?
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Never thought I'd feel warm feelings for Bayern Munich.
One of the reasons that German clubs are less likely to sign up to this farrago is the 50+1 rule in German football which means that private investors cannot have a majority stake in a club.
Bayern's model is therefore much better than the majority of clubs including ours.
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Never thought I'd feel warm feelings for Bayern Munich.
One of the reasons that German clubs are less likely to sign up to this farrago is the 50+1 rule in German football which means that private investors cannot have a majority stake in a club.
Bayern's model is therefore much better than the majority of clubs including ours.
Yeah good for them. All great.
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Fuck em. Let them go. The players will leave and go to clubs that can offer decent pay and a window to opportunities at international level.
I feel for the supporters of the clubs that want to go because I bet they don't want it either.
If I were UEFA I'd also now call time on the champions league changes too, just to fuck them even more.
This won't create the best competition, just the most monied, and they would only have 11 other clubs to play.
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Think the league needs to put these charlatans in their place:
- Ban on playing in FA competitions (Premier League, FA Cup, FA Trophy, FA Vase) whilst they're in the super league, and 5 years after
- Ban on playing in football league competitions (league, league cup) under the same conditions
- immediate & permanent removal of promotion to the football league for any competition that houses them on the same terms (ie effective 5yr ban from the national league & tier 6)
- Ban on any players playing at those clubs from representing England for the duration of any newly signed contract, plus 12 months. (I.e. period of grace for their current contract length as they may not be able to move, but if they sign a new one they sacrifice chances of playing for England).
- Discussion on how to replace the 5 'exiles'. Would be open to fan sides like AFC Liverpool, AFC Tottenham, etc being fast tracked to league 2, including FC United of Manchester. Also open to Scottish teams (ie old firm) being involved in discussions, and perhaps a 'Belfast United' franchise effort. Keep an open mind, the main concern is to completely block the 5 from rejoining & take as much local support as possible.
This effectively places them in Tier 11 (since they can't progress to tier 6 until 5 years after they've left the super league), prevents them from playing in any national cup competitions for the first 5 seasons, places a severe deterrent on players joining them, and encourages their supporters to take back control of their clubs. No malice against their supporters, they should be supported every step of the way in opposing this.
This isn't a battle they can win if the FA & football league stand up for themselves. Likewise UEFA.
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Can't express how much I hate this. What chance would we ever have of keeping hold of a Grealish ever again? The monumental disgrace of this should shame anyone with a pulse - and the sight of the sleazebag arrivistes of Spurs leaping gleefully to hang out with their betters makes me sick. Fuck me, go on Leicester and West Ham this season, break the fuckers up.
Spurs, the giants who haven't won their domestic league for 60 years.
Neville’s dismissal of Spurs was funny
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Supposedly making the official announcement tonight at 9.30pm. Right in the middle of Line of Duty, Bast*rds!
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Can't express how much I hate this. What chance would we ever have of keeping hold of a Grealish ever again? The monumental disgrace of this should shame anyone with a pulse - and the sight of the sleazebag arrivistes of Spurs leaping gleefully to hang out with their betters makes me sick. Fuck me, go on Leicester and West Ham this season, break the fuckers up.
Spurs, the giants who haven't won their domestic league for 60 years.
Neville’s dismissal of Spurs was funny
I mean if Spurs left I would care so little.
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Can't express how much I hate this. What chance would we ever have of keeping hold of a Grealish ever again? The monumental disgrace of this should shame anyone with a pulse - and the sight of the sleazebag arrivistes of Spurs leaping gleefully to hang out with their betters makes me sick. Fuck me, go on Leicester and West Ham this season, break the fuckers up.
I suspect Grealish and the like would have the choice of playing in a long established league which is connected to all of the major tournaments sanctioned by UEFA and FIFA including international tournaments or play in a mini league outside of it all.
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Spurs would bottle joining
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I honestly think this is a contrived situation being staged by both UEFA and so called elite clubs to make sure the horrific CL restructuring goes ahead. Later on today or tomorrow morning Clubs will withdraw their proposal and UEFA will do the same and shamelessly both groups will have restructured CL tomorrow.
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I have been waiting for this for years. The inevitable consequence of capitalist football. Eating through every last vestige of morality, competition and sporting integrity.
Why are we surprised? Everything is bought and sold, the price of everything, the value of nothing.
The black hearted centre of the most unpleasant parts of our human condition are given free reign in the most critical and influential parts of our society. Why would something as trivial as sport be any different?
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I honestly think this is a contrived situation being staged by both UEFA and so called elite clubs to make sure the horrific CL restructuring goes ahead. Later on today or tomorrow morning Clubs will withdraw their proposal and UEFA will do the same and shamelessly both groups will have restructured CL tomorrow.
I think you're right, Aftab.
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The Glazers, the John Henry's of this world have zero concept of or interest in the history of the game or the integrity of competition.
They may as well be selling washing powder or insurance.
I don't think our boys will be any different.
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So do they want to play in this new league as well as staying in the PL?
Also they obviously wouldn’t be able to play in the CL?
Anyone?
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I honestly think this is a contrived situation being staged by both UEFA and so called elite clubs to make sure the horrific CL restructuring goes ahead. Later on today or tomorrow morning Clubs will withdraw their proposal and UEFA will do the same and shamelessly both groups will have restructured CL tomorrow.
I think you're right, Aftab.
Thanks Paddy that's you and my mum who agree with me. Both wise people.
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The Glazers, the John Henry's of this world have zero concept of or interest in the history of the game or the integrity of competition.
They may as well be selling washing powder or insurance.
I don't think our boys will be any different.
Maybe, but one thing is the Glazers have been pissing the Old Trafford faithful from the moment they arrived.
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Imagine missing out on games like Chelsea v Man City over and over again.
Maybe the football bubble might just burst. Relegate all six of them.
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Relegation is an incentive for them to leave. I like fining them into bankruptcy.
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Relegation is an incentive for them to leave. I like fining them into bankruptcy.
I want them to leave.
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Relegation is an incentive for them to leave. I like fining them into bankruptcy.
I want them to leave.
same.
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I honestly think this is a contrived situation being staged by both UEFA and so called elite clubs to make sure the horrific CL restructuring goes ahead. Later on today or tomorrow morning Clubs will withdraw their proposal and UEFA will do the same and shamelessly both groups will have restructured CL tomorrow.
This. Its all huff and puff so fans will swallow the pill when they transform CL to an internal affair that these clubs will not have to risk missing qualification too because of something as trivial as achievement in a sport competition.
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So do they want to play in this new league as well as staying in the PL?
Also they obviously wouldn’t be able to play in the CL?
Anyone?
They think they are going to play in this competition as well as the domestic league. The domestic league has said they can't. Next step would be court, I imagine.
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The fact they have broken PL rules by even discussing a new competition means they should be given punitive punishment, tomorrow.
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So do they want to play in this new league as well as staying in the PL?
Also they obviously wouldn’t be able to play in the CL?
Anyone?
They think they are going to play in this competition as well as the domestic league. The domestic league has said they can't. Next step would be court, I imagine.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Some of these clubs are in a financial mess so good luck with that.
Regardless the game I love is disappearing into the distance.
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I’m minded to think that this is engineered to make sure that clubs get exactly what they want out of the current Champions League restructuring - but on the off chance there’s any real momentum to it I don’t think ‘corporate’ action eg: banning / fining / deducting points from clubs is the answer. It will just get mired in legals for ever. I would propose that the FA instruct Southgate that he can’t pick players from those teams. See how much they are prepared to put up with that.
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So do they want to play in this new league as well as staying in the PL?
Also they obviously wouldn’t be able to play in the CL?
Anyone?
They think they are going to play in this competition as well as the domestic league. The domestic league has said they can't. Next step would be court, I imagine.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Some of these clubs are in a financial mess so good luck with that.
Regardless the game I love is disappearing into the distance.
Yep, Jonathan Liew talks about the finances here.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/18/only-someone-who-truly-hates-football-can-be-behind-a-european-super-league
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I don't see this as a tactic to force negotiations. It is a serious drive to break away with huge money (JP Morgan) behind it. They will use everything in their power to compete in this ring-fenced competition while retaining membership of domestic leagues. If they're succesful, I think that would be me done with football.
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The fact they have broken PL rules by even discussing a new competition means they should be given punitive punishment, tomorrow.
I would love this to be the case, I just don’t think the PL/FA have the balls to deduct 12 points off them all.
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If you have a ring fenced competition with no qualification it will quickly become boring and it will fail.
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I honestly think this is a contrived situation being staged by both UEFA and so called elite clubs to make sure the horrific CL restructuring goes ahead. Later on today or tomorrow morning Clubs will withdraw their proposal and UEFA will do the same and shamelessly both groups will have restructured CL tomorrow.
I think you are correct
The European governing body released a joint statement together with the English Football Association, Premier League, Spanish Football Federation (RFEF), La Liga, and the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) as well as Serie A, on Sunday.
Talks apparently were going ok until there was a huge fallout on Friday night
The idea that the above organisations, with all their boards and legal teams required to be involved, (and all presumably via Zoom), could agree such a statement in a matter of hours seems fanciful
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If you have a ring fenced competition with no qualification it will quickly become boring and it will fail.
I would find it boring as fuck but reckon the glory-hunters round the world would love it.
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The reason the PL ultimately worked even though at the beginning it was positioned much like this “super” league is that still worked within the current league structure. It just broke away from the Football League and became somewhat of a stand-alone format taking a much larger cut of the pot. I don’t know if this is a similar tactic but it is entirely driven by money. And I for one sincerely hope it is separate from the existing league system. We won’t miss any of them at all as clubs. I do feel for their fans though because I imagine the vast majority will be completely against it.
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If I was Kane and Spurs’ actions denied me the chance to play in the Euros then I’d sue them. I also hope the English, Spanish and Italian leagues unite and relegate the teams involved.
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I honestly think this is a contrived situation being staged by both UEFA and so called elite clubs to make sure the horrific CL restructuring goes ahead. Later on today or tomorrow morning Clubs will withdraw their proposal and UEFA will do the same and shamelessly both groups will have restructured CL tomorrow.
I think you are correct
The European governing body released a joint statement together with the English Football Association, Premier League, Spanish Football Federation (RFEF), La Liga, and the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) as well as Serie A, on Sunday.
Talks apparently were going ok until there was a huge fallout on Friday night
The idea that the above organisations, with all their boards and legal teams required to be involved, (and all presumably via Zoom), could agree such a statement in a matter of hours seems fanciful
you are both over thinking it.
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My concern is that, I think, the Premier League votes on the basis of a fourteen club majority for any significant vote. So they would only need to persuade one club to go along with them to avoid being voted out of the league. I can imagine someone like Leicester or West Ham being offered a place for a season or three and they'd have the numbers to prevent any expulsion move.
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If you have a ring fenced competition with no qualification it will quickly become boring and it will fail.
I would find it boring as fuck but reckon the glory-hunters round the world would love it.
I’d be inclined to let them have what they’ve asked for. A separate league with X teams will not support their wage bill. They’d be grovelling to rejoin in no time.
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My concern is that, I think, the Premier League votes on the basis of a fourteen club majority for any significant vote. So they would only need to persuade one club to go along with them to avoid being voted out of the league. I can imagine someone like Leicester or West Ham being offered a place for a season or three and they'd have the numbers to prevent any expulsion move.
I read that it’s not up to the PL clubs. They won’t get to vote.
It’s the PL board that can say yes or no
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The American sports leagues don't have promotion or relegation and they're spectacularly successful. Mind you, they also have enormous numbers of teams, localised conferences to preserve local rivalries and draft systems which mean everyone has a chance.
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If UEFA and PL impose sanctions immediately...then Leicester OR West Ham win the league?
They play in CL next season and Villa , Everton and Leeds finish season with scrap over the other places?
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My concern is that, I think, the Premier League votes on the basis of a fourteen club majority for any significant vote. So they would only need to persuade one club to go along with them to avoid being voted out of the league. I can imagine someone like Leicester or West Ham being offered a place for a season or three and they'd have the numbers to prevent any expulsion move.
I read that it’s not up to the PL clubs. They won’t get to vote.
It’s the PL board that can say yes or no
Ah, okay. That sounds good then, judging by what they have said so far, anyway.
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The American sports leagues don't have promotion or relegation and they're spectacularly successful. Mind you, they also have enormous numbers of teams, localised conferences to preserve local rivalries and draft systems which mean everyone has a chance.
America sport events are only successful as a syndicated televised distraction while the population indulge in organized mass-eating events.
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My concern is that, I think, the Premier League votes on the basis of a fourteen club majority for any significant vote. So they would only need to persuade one club to go along with them to avoid being voted out of the league. I can imagine someone like Leicester or West Ham being offered a place for a season or three and they'd have the numbers to prevent any expulsion move.
A vote may not even be needed as it's a clear rule violation which each club signed up to.
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I repeat what I said previously. Call their bluff and tell them to fuck off.
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I repeat what I said previously. Call their bluff and tell them to fuck off.
This this this.
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If you have a ring fenced competition with no qualification it will quickly become boring and it will fail.
I would find it boring as fuck but reckon the glory-hunters round the world would love it.
That's it. This isn't about the fans who went when football was shit, support their club through thin and thinner just for a season or two in the sun and who still, by and large, have a family and/or geographical connection with the club.
I was just thinking about two children I taught last year. One supports Liverpool, the other Man City. Through playing FIFA, they know every player in every Champions League club. When it's a non-uniform day, they'll be wearing the latest kit - last time one had a full Barca kit with Messi on the back, the other Juve with Ronaldo. That's who this is for. Or rather who are there to be bled of every last penny by a self-selected elite. And in every class, in every school, across most of the globe, there will be children just like that.
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My concern is that, I think, the Premier League votes on the basis of a fourteen club majority for any significant vote. So they would only need to persuade one club to go along with them to avoid being voted out of the league. I can imagine someone like Leicester or West Ham being offered a place for a season or three and they'd have the numbers to prevent any expulsion move.
I read that it’s not up to the PL clubs. They won’t get to vote.
It’s the PL board that can say yes or no
Ah, okay. That sounds good then, judging by what they have said so far, anyway.
any special resolution requires a 2/3rds majority so it is up to the clubs.
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If UEFA and PL impose sanctions immediately...then Leicester OR West Ham win the league?
They play in CL next season and Villa , Everton and Leeds finish season with scrap over the other places?
If they're thrown out of of domestic competitions then Leicester win FA Cup, Brentford win League Cup? Or maybe they'd just not have cup winners this year, but that would be very unfair on Leicester.
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Rio Ferdinand coming out strongly against it on BT Sports now too.
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As far as I'm concerned the sky 6 can f-ck off and good riddance. I don't watch them now unless they're playing the Villa and I certainly wouldn't be watching them in any other artificial, self preservation, financially induced situation. I haven't watched the "champions league" since the inception of its new format.
I never thought I'd find myself agreeing with Gary Neville, but today he is spot on. That said his manure plus the other pundits' favourites have been working towards a breakaway for some time, so to suddenly say something today is a bit like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.
The sky 6 make me laugh when the likes of spurs and arsenal (in their current state) are included.
Any breakaway of any kind is only intended for the armchair tw-t supporter or those who get their kicks out of watching wall to wall football on some european "strip" tourist destination, which has got to be one of the saddest ways of watching live football.
I don't think this should just be about the PL or Eufa or whoever sanctioning these clubs. I think all football supporters should boycott any breakaway league or a champions league restructure designed to protect further the so-called elite.
Football has changed so much since my youth, for the worst, not helped by the likes of sky, dodgy refs and var, but my love for the sport of the 70's, 80's and the early 90's does not extend to the sh-t being discussed today. UTV always, every other club and their compliant supporters including the visual media can f-ck off!
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As Olaftab said, this is a smokescreen for the Swiss revamp. I say call their bluff, agree and close the door on the way out.
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As Aftab said, this is a smokescreen for the Swiss revamp.
It isn't, though. Discussions started months ago and JP Morgan and other backers have no interest in revamping the existing system.
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I was just thinking about two children I taught last year. One supports Liverpool, the other Man City. Through playing FIFA, they know every player in every Champions League club. When it's a non-uniform day, they'll be wearing the latest kit - last time one had a full Barca kit with Messi on the back, the other Juve with Ronaldo. That's who this is for. Or rather who are there to be bled of every last penny by a self-selected elite. And in every class, in every school, across most of the globe, there will be children just like that.
At least Liverpool and Man City are within touching distance of Burnley. This move is for people who watch football in Malaysia, Hong Kong and other far flung places around the globe. They'll play games at stupid hours for the foreign market, and almost certainly have a number of games played in cities as far away as Shanghai and Los Angeles. It's a proposal to take the most popular teams in European football and create a version of the NFL.
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You've got to ask why these clubs have leaked this threat the day before the the Champs League format is changed? There's got to be some objective, rather than just an idle threat.
The pandemic may impact the finances of the biggest clubs most & now to compensate they want a bigger slice or preferably the whole cake.
These club's obviously think they're bigger than the rest of football combined.
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Is there anything in place that can stop these football clubs from simply resigning from the Premier League? Is it any different to not entering into this season's FA Cup? I see the PM is wading into this now too. Arsenal? Why the fuck do they think they deserve to be in in it?
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I think the PL clubs have too much to lose. The Spanish and Italian ones will keep plugging away. They're all pricks regardless.
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These 12 clubs are planning on being the Harlem Globetrotters of football. Their owners want to tap into the billions to be made on the global market (Asia, Afica, America etc) and don't give a sh*t about the relatively paltry sums they make in their own country.
They can all f*ck off and in the process make our national sport a level playing field once again. >:(
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I honestly think this is a contrived situation being staged by both UEFA and so called elite clubs to make sure the horrific CL restructuring goes ahead. Later on today or tomorrow morning Clubs will withdraw their proposal and UEFA will do the same and shamelessly both groups will have restructured CL tomorrow.
I think you are correct
The European governing body released a joint statement together with the English Football Association, Premier League, Spanish Football Federation (RFEF), La Liga, and the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) as well as Serie A, on Sunday.
Talks apparently were going ok until there was a huge fallout on Friday night
The idea that the above organisations, with all their boards and legal teams required to be involved, (and all presumably via Zoom), could agree such a statement in a matter of hours seems fanciful
you are both over thinking it.
You are probably right CL
But it does seem strange that UEFA, PL, Serie A etc etc, issue a statement a few hours before the “elite” teams issue a statement which in turn is a few hours before UEFA
are due to issue a statement on an expanded CL
The trouble is that the whole lot of them are so corrupt conspiracy theories are given oxygen
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I think the PL clubs have too much to lose. The Spanish and Italian ones will keep plugging away. They're all pricks regardless.
Yes, they're all absolute cunts. Juventus seem to be the biggest cunts of all. I'm boycotting Fiat to get back at them. I don't actually have a driver's licence so my stance might not bring the company to their knees, admittedly.
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I do find it a bit problematic that UEFA and the Premier League etc are clutching their pearls and spouting "oh my, why would they want to spoil our beautiful competitive leagues." Obviously the new ideas are utterly rancid, but I'm not buying the whole notion of the status quo being a paragon of virtue.
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I think the PL clubs have too much to lose. The Spanish and Italian ones will keep plugging away. They're all pricks regardless.
Yes, they're all absolute cunts. Juventus seem to be the biggest cunts of all. I'm boycotting Fiat to get back at them. I don't actually have a driver's licence so my stance might not bring the company to their knees, admittedly.
Neither do I. I will tell the Mrs to keep it Ford Fiesta all the way.
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Swiss Ramble showing how fucked financially these wankers are. Plus £351m is now Man City's wage bill. £351m...incredible!
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I do find it a bit problematic that UEFA and the Premier League etc are clutching their pearls and spouting "oh my, why would they want to spoil our beautiful competitive leagues." Obviously the new ideas are utterly rancid, but I'm not buying the whole notion of the status quo being a paragon of virtue.
It isn't by any means that's for certain.
It's not a closed shop though.
3 teams might bounce up and down each year but at least they have the opportunity to do so.
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Yes, they're all absolute cunts. Juventus seem to be the biggest cunts of all. I'm boycotting Fiat to get back at them. I don't actually have a driver's licence so my stance might not bring the company to their knees, admittedly.
Really hit them in the pocket, boycott Maserati.
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French and German clubs are not touching this with a stick.
Maybe they can get some Russian clubs to fill in the vacancies...
Need the right mix of corruption and greed to match the Italians in this endeavor.
Why Italian? Why not mention the English?
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Do Maserati own a team?
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So their announcement came to nothing. Gary Neville's right. They're cowards that refuse to commit to anything if it looks like it might send a wind their way. Fuck them. Let them go, which they'll never do. Total C-words.
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As Olaftab and SE have said, I think it could all be engineered to ensure the new CL restructure comes into being.
That could involve 6 English teams in the 36, and places could be earned by clubs finishing below the top four of the Premier League, via their UEFA co-efficients.
That would effectively self-perpetuate the presence of most of the so-called 'Big 6' as they would start with an advantage and could qualify just on their previous CL performance without any need to finish near the top of the Premier League.
So that could be another way of serving the clubs' purpose of always being at the top table.
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As Olaftab and SE have said, I think it could all be engineered to ensure the new CL restructure comes into being.
That could involve 6 English teams in the 36, and places could be earned by clubs finishing below the top four of the Premier League, via their UEFA co-efficients.
That would effectively self-perpetuate the presence of most of the so-called 'Big 6' as they would start with an advantage and could qualify just on their previous CL performance without any need to finish near the top of the Premier League.
So that could be another way of serving the clubs' purpose of always being at the top table.
I think you're right, but I'd love to know how Spurs and Arsenal think that they'd qualify on that basis.
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So they’ve now “clarified” their position and say they never intended to form a break away league and are committed to working with UEFA on an expanded CL
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So they’ve now “clarified” their position and say they never intended to form a break away league and are committed to working with UEFA on an expanded CL
it’s never been about a breakaway league, that would not be Financially viable.
It is about and has allways been about the so called elite clubs focus on getting more money and more power.
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So they’ve now “clarified” their position and say they never intended to form a break away league and are committed to working with UEFA on an expanded CL
it’s never been about a breakaway league, that would not be Financially viable.
It is about and has allways been about the so called elite clubs focus on getting more money and more power.
I agree - I don’t think it would be viable either (certainly in the long term after it becomes clear that they are basically exhibition matches)
They are just sabre rattling to screw as much money out of an expanded CL as possible
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Do Maserati own a team?
Maserati's owned by FIAT.
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So they’ve now “clarified” their position and say they never intended to form a break away league and are committed to working with UEFA on an expanded CL
it’s never been about a breakaway league, that would not be Financially viable.
It is about and has allways been about the so called elite clubs focus on getting more money and more power.
I agree - I don’t think it would be viable either (certainly in the long term after it becomes clear that they are basically exhibition matches)
They are just sabre rattling to screw as much money out of an expanded CL as possible
its a bit more than that, it’s a negotiating block that will not go away.
Liverpool Manure Juve Real Madrid Barca are the centre of this power base.
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Do Maserati own a team?
Maserati's owned by FIAT.
I didn't know that. Another one for the boycott list, ta. I'm boycotting more cars than the twat from Jamiroquai has ever owned. Good times.
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Do Maserati own a team?
Maserati's owned by FIAT.
I didn't know that. Another one for the boycott list, ta. I'm boycotting more cars than the twat from Jamiroquai has ever owned. Good times.
I was in a restaurant that was playing nothing but Jamiroqai yesterday. How nobody was killed is a Jamiracle.
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You're allowed indoors? Those crazy Mexicans!
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So they’ve now “clarified” their position and say they never intended to form a break away league and are committed to working with UEFA on an expanded CL
it’s never been about a breakaway league, that would not be Financially viable.
It is about and has allways been about the so called elite clubs focus on getting more money and more power.
I agree - I don’t think it would be viable either (certainly in the long term after it becomes clear that they are basically exhibition matches)
They are just sabre rattling to screw as much money out of an expanded CL as possible
its a bit more than that, it’s a negotiating block that will not go away.
Liverpool Manure Juve Real Madrid Barca are the centre of this power base.
As far as RM and Barca are concerned it could be one last desperate throw of the dice to attract more TV revenue. I believe that both of them are in debt north of £1bn
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You're allowed indoors? Those crazy Mexicans!
We're mad for it here. I got talking to a couple who were the proud parents of an Orwell Prize-winning journalist. They were even prouder of how rough they were during oral sex. I knew someone that they'd had an affair with. They told him that they'd really made Amelia Gentleman.
Sorry.
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The whole concept is virtual insanity.
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So they’ve now “clarified” their position and say they never intended to form a break away league and are committed to working with UEFA on an expanded CL
it’s never been about a breakaway league, that would not be Financially viable.
It is about and has allways been about the so called elite clubs focus on getting more money and more power.
I agree - I don’t think it would be viable either (certainly in the long term after it becomes clear that they are basically exhibition matches)
They are just sabre rattling to screw as much money out of an expanded CL as possible
its a bit more than that, it’s a negotiating block that will not go away.
Liverpool Manure Juve Real Madrid Barca are the centre of this power base.
As far as RM and Barca are concerned it could be one last desperate throw of the dice to attract more TV revenue. I believe that both of them are in debt north of £1bn
Yep, they are desperate.
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The thing is given how easy some people can obtain free streams - future tv deals may not be all that lucrative.
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Cobblers, none of them are in debt. It’s pure greed at the prospect of what can be achieved with this horrid, irrevocable scenario.
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Cobblers, none of them are in debt. It’s pure greed at the prospect of what can be achieved with this horrid, irrevocable scenario.
None of them are in debt?
Bonkers
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Cobblers, none of them are in debt. It’s pure greed at the prospect of what can be achieved with this horrid, irrevocable scenario.
Think again my friend
“FC Barcelona is on the "verge of bankruptcy," according to a report from Spanish newspaper El Mundo. The club's most recent financial report shows that it made a loss of $117 million in 2020 and has $1.4 billion of debt. So bad is the crisis, the club was unable to pay its players their wages in January.”
There is probably a similar article somewhere on Real Madrid
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Cobblers, none of them are in debt. It’s pure greed at the prospect of what can be achieved with this horrid, irrevocable scenario.
Real Madrid and Barcelona definitely need the money.
They have to to pay back millions of euros in illegal state tax arrangements that they enjoyed for many years.
In particular, Barcelona have huge financial problems and have a debt of over a billion euros.
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PM and Culture Sec discussing government sanctions for the 6 clubs.
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Knighthoods incoming.
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Cobblers, none of them are in debt. It’s pure greed at the prospect of what can be achieved with this horrid, irrevocable scenario.
None of them are in debt?
Bonkers
Oh no, you're not commenting on money again are you?
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Cobblers, none of them are in debt. It’s pure greed at the prospect of what can be achieved with this horrid, irrevocable scenario.
None of them are in debt?
Bonkers
Oh no, you're not commenting on money again are you?
Hahahaha
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PM and Culture Sec discussing government sanctions for the 6 clubs.
Is that because they've not been given a cut?
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If nothing else, this has actually resulted in my warming to Gary Neville
“Tottenham...I’m really not that bothered about”
Excellent!!
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They won’t, but the league/UEFA need to sanction the clubs now. It’s unacceptable for this constantly to come back as a proposal.
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And there you have it. They can all fuck off
https://twitter.com/stancollymore/status/1383906766744817668?s=21
12 clubs rising to 20
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They won’t, but the league/UEFA need to sanction the clubs now. It’s unacceptable for this constantly to come back as a proposal.
Exactly. Drop their Champions League places this season and pass them onto the next 4 sides.
Wouldn't happen in a million years mind.
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More details
https://twitter.com/talksport/status/1383907634936389632?s=21
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Bye bye.
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More details
https://twitter.com/talksport/status/1383907634936389632?s=21
Borderline evil, to be honest.
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So fuck em. Authorities need to have the bollocks to chuck them out.
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3 more to join. Could we be one?
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Yup they need to be stamped on.
It’s a daft idea and the sort of thing that would hold interest for a short time and then fizzle out.
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That statement is full of 'the top clubs' and such talk. It's just a closed shop.
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3 more to join. Could we be one?
I doubt it and hope not. They probably haven't given up on persuading Bayern and PSG.
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I didn't know that. Another one for the boycott list, ta. I'm boycotting more cars than the twat from Jamiroquai has ever owned. Good times.
I was in a restaurant that was playing nothing but Jamiroqai yesterday. How nobody was killed is a Jamiracle.
Must be popular there. Get a local band to do Jamiroquai covers and call them Jamiriachi, you'll make a fortune.
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3 more to join. Could we be one?
I doubt it and hope not. They probably haven't given up on persuading Bayern and PSG.
I would hate us to be part of it. It’s not great now, but ostensibly the competition being a meritocracy is the only thing that makes it interesting.
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More details
https://twitter.com/talksport/status/1383907634936389632?s=21
Borderline evil, to be honest.
The overt pomposity is what they do their best to hide. Yet it drips off the walls. The statement by Perez trying to claim it is in the best interests of the 4 billion football fans worldwide just beggars belief.
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Kick them out and do it now. I want to wake up tomorrow to see all these clubs having (R) next to their name in the league table.
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Interesting that Bayern and PSG declined to enter. Although Bayern maybe because of the way their club is structured.
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3 more to join. Could we be one?
I doubt it and hope not. They probably haven't given up on persuading Bayern and PSG.
I have to be honest and say that after over 30 ST years I'd want nothing to do with us being involved in any crappy closed shop league and I'd follow a non league side.
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Get to fuck then, dickheads.
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18 April 2021
Football - RIP
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Kick them out and do it now. I want to wake up tomorrow to see all these clubs having (R) next to their name in the league table.
Yep and when it fails in a few years send them back to non-league and make them work their way back up.
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3 more to join. Could we be one?
I doubt it and hope not. They probably haven't given up on persuading Bayern and PSG.
I have to be honest and say that after over 30 ST years I'd want nothing to do with us being involved in any crappy closed shop league and I'd follow a non league side.
Yeah, count me out in the (unlikely) event that Villa sign up to this. I would also give up English football if the tournament goes ahead and these clubs are able to retain their place in the Premier League. That would mean we had given up any pretence of fairness or meritocracy. May as well watch the World Wrestling Federation instead.
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Well, we're the biggest team in English football again. It's been a while.
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3 more to join. Could we be one?
I doubt it and hope not. They probably haven't given up on persuading Bayern and PSG.
Seems like a lot of US chairmen involved
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Kick them out and do it now. I want to wake up tomorrow to see all these clubs having (R) next to their name in the league table.
Supposedly the Pl hard to be completed last season because the TV companies would have sued them for breach of contract etc. I assume they won’t kick them out for the same reason, however I would also like to see the media companies who are also supporting this to get sued in turn as well.
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3 more to join. Could we be one?
I doubt it and hope not. They probably haven't given up on persuading Bayern and PSG.
Seems like a lot of US chairmen involved
No surprise. They don’t know a game where there is relegation form the money pit so want to ensure the same thing now.
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We are now going to see just how big a set of balls the PL, UEFA and FIFA actually have.
And also who will be broadcasting this? Amazon possibly? Where did all this revenue come from?
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15 Founding Clubs i.e. permanent members.
5 others coming and going season by season.
The rules to be written by the Founding Clubs - expect to see them changed as and when the Founding Clubs deem necessary.
Oodles of front end dosh to the Founding Clubs for "infrastructure" - i.e. up front "membership payment".
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Hard to know what will happen here. For all this talk of relegating and banning them, the rest of the PL will likely be concerned their share of the golden egg goes with them.
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Well, we're the biggest team in English football again. It's been a while.
Good point. When did we lose the spot. I reckon it was 1950.
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I also find it so rich that on the one hand they all will get a fuck load of money for being part of this private club, claim it’s good for the game and then plan to stay in their domestic leagues which they would then destroy with their financial might.
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We are now going to see just how big a set of balls the PL, UEFA and FIFA actually have.
And also who will be broadcasting this? Amazon possibly? Where did all this revenue come from?
Each club will be allowed to broadcast four games "on their own platforms". As for the rest, a broadcaster called DAZN seems to be heavily involved.
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£3.5bn.
There we have it. The raison d'etre. Clubs like Milan and Inter and Arsenal, who just can't compete anymore with the upstarts on a regular basis. Clubs like Barcelona and Madrid who are in so much debt, as they're total financial basket cases, clubs like Liverpool who found their stay at the top finite, clubs like Man United who haven't won a title in what will be at least 9 years now... it'd all a ruse and a facade for just a means of doping financially.
The gap can get bigger and rich can save themselves.
Well, not today. Not now, not ever. Kick them out, all of them. Ban them and any player contracted by them from any UEFA or FIFA regulated activity and competition. Ban any UEFA or FIFA regulated club from selling a player's registration to them. Ban any UEFA or FIFA regulated club from playing a game with them.
And when a club like Arsenal gets tired of losing 24 matches a season, in a half empty stadium where it costs £100 a ticket and they beg to come back. We tell them sure, of course. No problem. You start in League 2.
The response from football's governing bodies, national leagues, associations and the governments of the countries where these clubs (and I use the word loosely and with the utmost contempt) reside, should swift, merciless and brutal.
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Let them sod off I say.
We have 2 choices.
1) Make it hard for them to leave but impossible to come back.
2) Make it easy for them to leave but impossible to come back.
My belief/hope is that this Circus League would whither on the vine. It largely depends on how the governing bodies respond. I don't think any team in this league should be allowed to compeat outside their League and players should be barred from international competition.
Football has a long and glorious history and there are far more great clubs outside this self serving group than within it. I see it as an opportunity to get rid of what has become a cancer within our game. It's clear for everyone to see what matters to their greedy owners.
I think their fans will go apeshit and I hope they do. Their real fans will be the first to realise how meaningless it would be. Someone has to come bottom of this league and where will the fan base be then. Do any of them have the mental strength to finish last.
Inform them that as they have signed up for an unauthorised rogue league outside the governing bodies control they will be expelled with immediate effect from all European and domestic competitions.
I feel most sorry for their fans. I'd be absolutely gutted if Villa were in on it.
Utv.
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UEFA apparently have announced that the 12 clubs will be banned from its tournaments and internationals
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They can be kicked out and have all their domestic titles stripped from the record books. On top of this there is absolutely nothing to stop a rival league being formed with even more money thrown at it.
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£3.5bn.
There we have it. The raison d'etre. Clubs like Milan and Inter and Arsenal, who just can't compete anymore with the upstarts on a regular basis. Clubs like Barcelona and Madrid who are in so much debt, as they're total financial basket cases, clubs like Liverpool who found their stay at the top finite, clubs like Man United who haven't won a title in what will be at least 9 years now... it'd all a ruse and a facade for just a means of doping financially.
The gap can get bigger and rich can save themselves.
Well, not today. Not now, not ever. Kick them out, all of them. Ban them and any player contracted by them from any UEFA or FIFA regulated activity and competition. Ban any UEFA or FIFA regulated club from selling a player's registration to them. Ban any UEFA or FIFA regulated club from playing a game with them.
And when a club like Arsenal gets tired of losing 24 matches a season, in a half empty stadium where it costs £100 a ticket and they beg to come back. We tell them sure, of course. No problem. You start in League 2.
The response from football's governing bodies, national leagues, associations and the governments of the countries where these clubs (and I use the word loosely and with the utmost contempt) reside, should swift, merciless and brutal.
I agree with the Socialist Republic of Ads!
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Well, we're the biggest team in English football again. It's been a while.
Good point. When did we lose the spot. I reckon it was 1950.
My Rothman A-Z of World Football 1973 edition still describes us the the most successful English football club. So it's in the 80's that Liverpool usurped us and then....
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£3.5bn.
There we have it. The raison d'etre. Clubs like Milan and Inter and Arsenal, who just can't compete anymore with the upstarts on a regular basis. Clubs like Barcelona and Madrid who are in so much debt, as they're total financial basket cases, clubs like Liverpool who found their stay at the top finite, clubs like Man United who haven't won a title in what will be at least 9 years now... it'd all a ruse and a facade for just a means of doping financially.
The gap can get bigger and rich can save themselves.
Well, not today. Not now, not ever. Kick them out, all of them. Ban them and any player contracted by them from any UEFA or FIFA regulated activity and competition. Ban any UEFA or FIFA regulated club from selling a player's registration to them. Ban any UEFA or FIFA regulated club from playing a game with them.
And when a club like Arsenal gets tired of losing 24 matches a season, in a half empty stadium where it costs £100 a ticket and they beg to come back. We tell them sure, of course. No problem. You start in League 2.
The response from football's governing bodies, national leagues, associations and the governments of the countries where these clubs (and I use the word loosely and with the utmost contempt) reside, should swift, merciless and brutal.
Generally agree, but they can start way lower than League Two. Let them come back in the regional leagues like teams like the new Wimbledon had to. Even then, they're only allowed back if they pay reparations for at least, say, fifty years.
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Interesting Orwellian language in the statement too. A lot of talk of 'stability', as if stability is in any way an appealing thing in sport.
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The FA have a lot to answer for, their mishandling of the premiership allowing just a few clubs to dominate the league for many years now, has led to this. When playing in Europe was far more important than winning the FA cup relegating one of the historically great competitions to a why bother for top clubs.
Then there is the fair play rules that underpinned the power of the priveledged few clubs that had already spent hundreds of millions to corner the market in top players. Remember when Man City and Chelsea were mediocre clubs with relatively poor support, now they are spoken of as an untouchable top five.
I really have little interest watching the England team unless there is a Villa player involved and i would suggest that
it would soon become obvious that this super league would fall on its face within a couple of seasons. Let them go I say, the premier league would become far more exciting without them.
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Well, we're the biggest team in English football again. It's been a while.
Good point. When did we lose the spot. I reckon it was 1950.
My Rothman A-Z of World Football 1973 edition still describes us the the most successful English football club. So it's in the 80's that Liverpool usurped us and then....
Actullay 1950 was when started to slip from being biggest in the world.
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Hesgoal could put a spanner in their cunning plans.
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If this goes ahead, even if we aren't involved, I think I am finally done with football.
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I’m not done with football. Villa will still play in the PL and the domestic trophies. We will have a better chance of winning them too and playing in Europe.
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I suppose they'll want to leave the domestic cups as well.
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Yes, the website very clearly mentions that they want to play in domestic leagues. It says nothing of cups.
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So can any of original 15 ever get relegated ?
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I suppose they'll want to leave the domestic cups as well.
They won’t be able to play in them I suspect.
Honestly I will look at this like I see the Bundesliga, or La Liga or Ligue 1. I know I can watch them on tv. I know they have good games and some great players. I just don’t have the time or desire to watch those games. If the authorities have balls to do what they need to do without these clubs it’s just 15-20 less clubs to concern ourselves with. We will finish higher up the table. Players will be eligible for the national team which will now exclude the players in the Super League. It will be more fun.
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I’m not done with football. Villa will still play in the PL and the domestic trophies. We will have a better chance of winning them too and playing in Europe.
It wouldn't be the same though would it? People didn't like the Premier League when it came into being but that was essentially just a rebranding exercise. This would mean 6 of the biggest clubs in England no longer being there, thus massively diminishing the quality and value of the Premier League. Then all that would happen is the next biggest clubs (us, Everton, Leicester, Newcastle, Leeds, West Ham etc) would dominate, with the likes of Cardiff, Boro, Norwich and Watford making up the numbers. Thanks but no thanks. The money in the domestic game would be hit severely, and then we'd all have to hope for a small chance of being invited to their big boys' club.
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Talk before was of a twenty year exemption from relegation.
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If they want to crawl back at any time, they start at the bottom of the football pyramid.
Tier 9. No exceptions.
Fuck the lot of them.
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Yes, the website very clearly mentions that they want to play in domestic leagues. It says nothing of cups.
They absolutely must be banned.
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As keen as I am to see the likes of Spuds become international whipping boys, this absolutely rips the money out of the world game. Loads of clubs will go to the wall, even if the league is more competitive. All we can do is hope it fails and laugh at Chelsea going from crap to minted to playing Borehamwood in the space of two decades.
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I suppose they'll want to leave the domestic cups as well.
No the thing is they expect to still carry on in the Premier League as normal and cup competitions and be free to play in the Super League during the midweek.
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I’m not done with football. Villa will still play in the PL and the domestic trophies. We will have a better chance of winning them too and playing in Europe.
It wouldn't be the same though would it? People didn't like the Premier League when it came into being but that was essentially just a rebranding exercise. This would mean 6 of the biggest clubs in England no longer being there, thus massively diminishing the quality and value of the Premier League. Then all that would happen is the next biggest clubs (us, Everton, Leicester, Newcastle, Leeds, West Ham etc) would dominate, with the likes of Cardiff, Boro, Norwich and Watford making up the numbers. Thanks but no thanks. The money in the domestic game would be hit severely, and then we'd all have to hope for a small chance of being invited to their big boys' club.
I don’t necessarily agree as it all depends on what restrictions are placed on the breakaway clubs. If you are Salah or DeBruyne or Kane and you were told you could no longer play for your country, do you think those players will want to be a part of that league? I actually think there could either be a migration back to the established league system or players won’t be as inclined to move to it. That’s not what happened when the PL was formed.
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FIFA, UEFA have to stand behind bans/expulsions. They can’t back down or they’re toast.
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This is even shitter than The Hundred.
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This is even shitter than The Hundred.
To be fair I think the Hundred is generally aimed at growing the game. This is all about self-interest.
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So can any of original 15 ever get relegated ?
No not from the Super League but if they are allowed to stay in the domestic competitions you could have a scenario where one of 6 are relegated from the PL into championship but they still play in the Super League. They MUST be banned from domestic competition.
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Imagine the state of the Spanish league if they leave it.
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So can any of original 15 ever get relegated ?
No not from the Super League but if they are allowed to stay in the domestic competitions you could have a scenario where one of 6 are relegated from the PL into championship but they still play in the Super League. They MUST be banned from domestic competition.
If they stay in it could never happen. Their ridiculous wealth would widen their gap. This is just a power grab.
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I’m not done with football. Villa will still play in the PL and the domestic trophies. We will have a better chance of winning them too and playing in Europe.
It wouldn't be the same though would it? People didn't like the Premier League when it came into being but that was essentially just a rebranding exercise. This would mean 6 of the biggest clubs in England no longer being there, thus massively diminishing the quality and value of the Premier League. Then all that would happen is the next biggest clubs (us, Everton, Leicester, Newcastle, Leeds, West Ham etc) would dominate, with the likes of Cardiff, Boro, Norwich and Watford making up the numbers. Thanks but no thanks. The money in the domestic game would be hit severely, and then we'd all have to hope for a small chance of being invited to their big boys' club.
I don’t necessarily agree as it all depends on what restrictions are placed on the breakaway clubs. If you are Salah or DeBruyne or Kane and you were told you could no longer play for your country, do you think those players will want to be a part of that league? I actually think there could either be a migration back to the established league system or players won’t be as inclined to move to it. That’s not what happened when the PL was formed.
Simple. They'll just start their own World Cup as well.
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The rich ruin everything and should be overthrown and destroyed.
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The rich ruin everything and should be overthrown and destroyed.
Define 'rich'. Villa have spent hundreds of millions to be a bottom half team.
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It's a really good opportunity to fix the game. Salary caps, squad caps, stop clubs from hoarding players only to loan them out, equitable sharing of any TV money.
Football fans don't give a fuck about 'quality' or endless rainbow flicks and rabonas, they just want their team to win.
This, of course, means that the national FA's of England, Italy, and Spain need to have the balls to stand up to these clubs, which I just don't believe they possess.
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The FIFA statement is weak.
Existing footballing bodies have to come down incredibly hard on this.
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The cowards ruin everything. Those afraid of competition. Those who bet the farm and lost. Well boo fucking hoo. Clubs have always risen and fallen, take your medicine and come back, if you can.
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The rich ruin everything and should be overthrown and destroyed.
Define 'rich'. Villa have spent hundreds of millions to be a bottom half team.
Thinking more of the owners to be honest, including our own, and how there isn't a corner of the world they can't ruin.
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250/1 to win the title, 4th favourites on Sky Bet without "the Big 6".
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The cowards ruin everything. Those afraid of competition. Those who bet the farm and lost. Well boo fucking hoo. Clubs have always risen and fallen, take your medicine and come back, if you can.
Basically my entire objection to FFP.
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Have Bayern snubbed it or have they been forced to by being 51% fan owned ?
I fear when this happens, it may effect us and the owners have bought us to be one of the big boys again, if that's become a closed shop does their ambitions and interest end with it ?
I agree. We have just announced long term plans for inevestment in the playing side and infrastructure which are now effectively redundant. This is pulling the drawbridge up on a grand scale.
The teams lower down the pyramid will be devastated as PL money dries up.
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Thing is this surely must be a breach of existing rules around participation in the leagues/competitions. If the authorities don’t absolutely hammer these clubs then they’ll be walked over forever.
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250/1 to win the title, 4th favourites on Sky Bet without "the Big 6".
West Ham are nine points clear with four games left, if you remove all results against the Scab Six.
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I expect some Old Testament retribution.
Like McGrath gets to smite Pep on Wednesday in lieu of the game or something.
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250/1 to win the title, 4th favourites on Sky Bet without "the Big 6".
West Ham are nine points clear with four games left, if you remove all results against the Scab Six.
Do you give everybody 6 points? Take them away? They've fucked the integrity of the league entirely.
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I would suddenly have a massive amount of respect for any manager of one of these clubs who resigns on principal or a player who says he will no longer play for them.
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250/1 to win the title, 4th favourites on Sky Bet without "the Big 6".
West Ham are nine points clear with four games left, if you remove all results against the Scab Six.
Do you give everybody 6 points? Take them away? They've fucked the integrity of the league entirely.
Problem is the authorities won’t have the bottle to expel/significantly penalise them.
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CL and Europa League suspended temporarily.
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The threat of stopping players from playing in the World Cup for their countries would be legally challenged, as the players will argue that they are being forced into this Super league by their clubs.
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CL and Europa League suspended temporarily.
The best chance Man City had of winning the CL and they fucked it up again
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CL and Europa League suspended temporarily.
This hasn't been confirmed anywhere. Would be a good laugh. Award PSG the CL and lef Villarreal and Roma contest the EL Final.
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I’m already bored of it before it starts.
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Really interesting decisions for fans of the "big six" to be made.
I remember walking to a Villa Man City game a few years back and chatting with a City fan who admitted mentally wrestling with the seismic financial advantage his Club had over the majority of others.
I would wager his feelings are completely negative at this time.
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https://twitter.com/SamWallaceTel/status/1383922891788484612
Now very clear that 12 Euro Super League 'founders' will try to use promise of €10bn solidarity over 23 years as sell to govts, EU, domestic leagues. Sad to report that clubs, according to sources, are 'committed' to breakaway.
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The threat of stopping players from playing in the World Cup for their countries would be legally challenged, as the players will argue that they are being forced into this Super league by their clubs.
All you have to do is get the FAs not to pick the players involved in the league. Admittedly getting Southgate to drop Mount may prove tricky.
Looking across the a range of forums (including LFC's and Yanited's) I don't think I've ever seen so much anger and unity about a single issue. I think the clubs involved have badly misjudged this and it's up to the football authorities to come down hard on them.
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CL and Europa League suspended temporarily.
Have they said that? I thought it said they “could” be banned, which means they won’t.
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What incentive do Arsenal have for doing better than 9th? or Spurs in 7th? Liverpool in 6th or Chelsea in 5th? The integrity of the league has just been torpedoed, so remaining Prem clubs and board are going to have to do something, surely.
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What incentive do Arsenal have for doing better than 9th? or Spurs in 7th? Liverpool in 6th or Chelsea in 5th? The integrity of the league has just been torpedoed, so remaining Prem clubs and board are going to have to do something, surely.
But they can’t can they? That’s why it’s 6 clubs. Wouldn’t they need 15 votes to carry any decision? Unless the FA can do something, but I doubt they can or have the guts to.
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Throw them out and we'll carry on regardless.
Off you f*ck. If you want to come back, apply for The National League.
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The sad thing is that, but for a few years off our potential development, we would likely have been joining these 6 dispicable former football clubs. This seems like a red line, mind.
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It's a crock of shit.
Now it may well be a manoeuvre to try and get UEFA/F As to budge in their favour in terms of agreeing to their 36 teal Chumps League format - or at least an expansion of the current set up.
But it also gives UEFA/ European FAs a great chance to call their bluff and bring them back under control and assert the primacy of domestic leagues over the ever growing European competitions.
Bluffing in cards is all about not showing your cards, but it lo9ks to me as if the Superleaguers might have made a very nig tactical error.
Will UEFA and the FA etc. the opportunity presented to them.
Hope so, but somehow I think they'll squander the chance.
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https://twitter.com/SamWallaceTel/status/1383922891788484612
Now very clear that 12 Euro Super League 'founders' will try to use promise of €10bn solidarity over 23 years as sell to govts, EU, domestic leagues. Sad to report that clubs, according to sources, are 'committed' to breakaway.
Yes so a bung essentially. The domestic leagues, UEFA, FIFA would be mental to roll over for a few billion. This fundamentally wrecks all their competitions if they allow those clubs to remain part of them.
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Sam Wallace@SamWallaceTel·6m
A faint hope that this is posturing, & a deal can be struck with Uefa although all indicators currently suggest otherwise. To think that the future of European football rests on the egos of a handful of owners whose wealth is largely inherited. What times we live in,
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The only way to deal with this is to expel them (if that can happen).
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SJM has his say. https://twitter.com/OllieHolt22/status/1383908680530206725
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The threat of stopping players from playing in the World Cup for their countries would be legally challenged, as the players will argue that they are being forced into this Super league by their clubs.
You have to be selected to play for your country so it can not be legally challenged.
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I wouldn't let them back in at all. Stay or go but if you go, you go for good.
It's a rogue league set up by rogue clubs in competition with the legitimate European and World organisations. They should be treated as such and treated as pariahs.
All owners, managers and players who take part should be blacklisted.
I wouldn't even let them use the rules of football or even let them call it football if possible. No Refs, no linesman, sue them in court if they copy the rules.
Football will get over it. Some of the player's will come back and new ones will always replace the old. Player's not coming back in a reasonable time frame should have to miss one regional and one world international competition ( e.g.1 European & 1 World cup) before playing international football again. No exceptions. Don't tell me that any young player doesn't want to play for his country.
Football has a glorious history with many more great clubs staying than will be going. Some of those going allegedly have a history of dishonesty anyway, bribing refs and such so good riddance.
I think enough of the player's will come back. I think they will be distributed among the teams that remain. Those that don't will be pitied and censured for their greed by the countries they couldn't play for.
They'll all fall out eventually anyway. Like a bunch of prima Donnas fighting over 1 mirror. Hope you crash and burn you bastards.
Utv.
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Football needs a reset. This might be it, but just not for the reasons that they think.
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Oh absolutely. The authorities absolutely have to make a stand here, because the concept of a small group of teams that sit outside the meritocracy that everyone else competes under cannot be allowed. It breaks the whole basis of the culture, essentially what’s the point in playing the games. If these clubs want this they have to be cut off and ostracised otherwise their continued participation in the existing competitions completely undermines those competitions.
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If they're succesful, I think that would be me done with football.
You're going to support Blues?
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The logical conclusion of what has been happening to football over the last 30 years.
The statement released by these rebels makes for a disgusting but so predictable read.
The most sickening is the use of the term "founding clubs".
If they are really intent are continuing with this maverick project then expulsion is the only answer.
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None of those 6 will be missed. Arrogant, condescending, irritating plastic fans, hugely overrated stadiums and atmospheres, wanker managers, uncountable numbers of twat players diving all over the place, wankfest media following...The list is endless.
Fuck em.
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None of those 6 will be missed. Arrogant, condescending, irritating plastic fans, hugely overrated stadiums and atmospheres, wanker managers, uncountable numbers of twat players diving all over the place, wankfest media following...The list is endless.
Fuck em.
Seconded.
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The "Super 6" honestly believe that football in England will not exist without them!
What these clubs fans do not realise is that the games wont be played at their home grounds but played in America, China etc..
Let them leave, and when they beg to come back let them start at the lowest level of football within the football pyramid
Gary Neville was bang right, it is all about the money!
I think this morning they will all change their minds and decide to honour us with their presence!
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They need to be sanctioned heavily, but will the PL have the guts to do so?
I wonder what Sawiris and Edens think of all this?
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This is never going to happen. It’s just massive brinksmanship to get more money out of the existing competition.
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As long as they don’t also get to play in the English league I’m ok with that. They’ll get bored playing each other every year and someone (Arsenal) will need to finish bottom.
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There is an inevitable direction of travel here. Wherever the biggest payday is, football will make it the destination, eventually.
This plan may well be thwarted by compromise, but it will come back.
Sky ( 23m European subscribers) is no longer the dominant force. You Tube and Amazon have changed the landscape. Amazon have over 200m Prime subscribers at an average $100 pa. “Gangnam style” has been viewed 3.3bn times worldwide on You tube.. Those numbers dwarf Sky ( 180m audience for CL final) There is no going back.
Football as a worldwide commodity is underpriced. Footballers are underpaid.
The European elite cannot target the rest of the world for shirt sales, pre season friendlies and merchandise and then be surprised at the demand that creates.
Expect an expanded world club championship biannually. Expect an IPL Cricket style franchise tournament to fill in the geographic gaps. Do not expect matchday fans to be shown any consideration.
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I thought that these clubs were so worried about fixture congestion and their "superstars" playing too many games
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The problem with kicking them out of domestic leagues is the loss of revenue from TV and therefore the existence of everyone else. Those 6 clubs probably make up 75% of the viewing audience.
Its wrong in every level, but they already have too much power. The arrogance of what they are doing isnt surprising.
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Gary Neville is not very happy us he!
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Each club getting £3bn?
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The product is being pushed further and further away from us.
We live in a world where millions will watch a YouTube star tarnish the noble sport of boxing and devour it like a fast food purchase. Then onto the next gimmick.
These owners aren't the slightest bit interested in tradition and fan opinion.
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If they go, I wouldn't allow them to buy players from the leagues/competitions they've left behind, either.
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Arrogance
Want to continue to play in own league then play midweek in a plastic league
This from teams who moan about overkill and drains on players
I assume that they would decline to play in domestic competition
It will never fly, the owners are money grabbing bastards far removed from the reality of the fans world, most fans groups this morning are condemning it.
What about the players, did they sign up for these teams with an expectation that the owners would engage in such folly so as to have them excluded from their National teams, I think not.
Well we can see what we have always known, who the tossers are.
My God even the French declined to join.
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Fully expect the French to change sides
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If these teams breakaway and are allowed to continue to play in domestic competitions, it completely decimates those domestic leagues anyway.
Unless those 6 clubs play their 9th reserve team or something, they will be pretty much unbeatable with the £3b coffers they have.
Kick em out, fuck em off......as we used to say.
The biggest questions now are what balls do the football authorities have and how soon will they show them?
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If these teams breakaway and are allowed to continue to play in domestic competitions, it completely decimates those domestic leagues anyway.
Unless those 6 clubs play their 9th reserve team or something, they will be pretty much unbeatable with the £3b coffers they have.
Kick em out, fuck em off......as we used to say.
The biggest questions now are what balls do the football authorities have and how soon will they show them?
They really need to strike while the iron is hot.
They need to come down hard, I expect them to soften up and act like total pussies.
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As for Sky Sports & BT going on about greed. Didn’t they put PPV games on during a pandemic? Yeah. Ok m8
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Each club getting £3bn?
No. 12 share €3.5B as joining fee. About €300M each.
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It's a natural progression for a sport that has been reclassified as a "business" or "entertainment" in recent times and from a business point of view this move makes perfect sense. Maximise revenue and protect that revenue stream, remove the risk to income, work as a collective.
The conflict between capitalist ideals and the Corinthian principles of sport has always been an issue and always will be and to manage this controls need to be in place and this flies in the face of a free market.
The introduction of VAR is a fine example where the clamour to eliminate mistakes was based on the idea, amongst others, that there was too much (money) at stake for it to be risked on the call of a single official, for human error to cost a business money.
Football, at the top level at least, has become far less competitive as the money has grown and the erosion of sporting principles and competition is not going to stop until it eventually becomes unpopular with supporters, the heart of the revenue stream.
I've gone on record to state how I preferred the Championship to the PL and that I have become disillusioned with European competition, and this is a consequence of the reduction in sporting integrity, competition and that one thing that makes sport such a wonderful thing, the element of unpredictability. I'm either a grumpy old luddite or a portent of things to come but if it is the latter and the game collapses at the very highest level, those leading lights of the European Super League will be long gone, and so will the money.
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Odds on the first game being in Dubai?
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Juventus share rise 10%.
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Each club getting £3bn?
No. 12 share €3.5B as joining fee. About €300M each.
Ah yes, someone mentioned the £3bn and that didn't sound right.
£300m certainly eases some of the debts that some of the 12 have.
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I don't think they can make anything like the money they hope playing midweek games only (until the final). No Americans will watch while they're at work and Asians won't watch while they're asleep.
The real money is playing at weekends when the whole world can watch. Which makes me think that they actually want to be thrown out of the domestic leagues, and their talk of wanted to stay in the existing structure is just a PR exercise so they can say they tried to make it work but nasty UEFA/FIFA/the Premier League, etc, wouldn't let them.
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Snippet of Gary Neville if you didn’t see it. Really well said
https://twitter.com/skysportspl/status/1383832540054659082?s=21
Especially when he said "Tottenham I'm not bothered about". Ha, ha.
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It’s a disgrace and I’m angry - but there are positives, such as not having to lose twice a year to Man Utd following the inevitable dodgy penalty.
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So do they want to play in this new league as well as staying in the PL?
Also they obviously wouldn’t be able to play in the CL?
I read it as they would play this league instead of the Champions League.
So, basically, smaller countries won’t get a look in, as they reckon it will be 15 clubs plus 5 invites for the season. I’m guessing 3 of the 5 would be England, Spain & Italy
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My instinctive reaction is to tell them to fuck off and don't come back. Footballl is about so much more than a handful of clubs that somehow think they're bigger than the game itself.
Let them go and play in their soulless, jeopardy-free, closed shop. Football will survive without them. It might even become a bit more interesting.
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Only someone who truly hates football can be behind a European super league...
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/18/only-someone-who-truly-hates-football-can-be-behind-a-european-super-league (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/18/only-someone-who-truly-hates-football-can-be-behind-a-european-super-league)
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On the bright side, if we fuck these 6 teams out of the League, Villa are the most successful team in the country.
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It's difficult to articulate just how slimy this all is. On the face of it it's just a continuation / escalation of the current status quo (best players playing for richest clubs in Europe, bit of a closed-shop already), but the real difference is the fact it's an actual closed-shop. No relegation... FFS!
If it goes ahead, it will change the game completely and irreversibly and I just don't think there is anything like the popular support for doing that outside of a small number of billionaire owners.
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This is a kick in the guts for all teams in the football pyramid, the flow down of money is pitiful as it is, the Premier League teams were very reluctant to allow £30m in emergency funding during the pandemic to be given to smaller clubs which has helped them to remain in existence, which shows they don’t care at all about the lower feeder clubs which are the lifeblood of the game.
These so called big 6 have to be kicked out of the Premier League although I don’t think it will happen as the league is run by the Premier Leagues club chairmen. The huge amounts of money being offered to these clubs will give them even more financial clout to remain the most competitive clubs in the league which to me is an unfair advantage. Clubs like Villa, Leicester, Everton will find it even harder to break into the top half of the league or even to barely compete.
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Wonder what the players think about this, if this goes ahead and players from these teams are banned from playing for their country.
Might see lots of players wanting to leave these teams if that happens.
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Football will survive without these clubs.
It will certainly open up the Prem, and cups, for a host of other clubs to win.
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There is no chance that these clubs will disappear, as much as we all would love it to happen.
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Football will survive without these clubs.
It will certainly open up the Prem, and cups, for a host of other clubs to win.
Yes, none of them were there when the league first started so I won't shed any tears over any of them.
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There is no chance that these clubs will disappear, as much as we all would love it to happen.
They've already disappeared up their own backsides.
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There is no chance that these clubs will disappear, as much as we all would love it to happen.
Then I will. If they are allowed to stay in the Premier League while having guaranteed Super League football regardless of performance, the game is dead to me.
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There is no chance that these clubs will disappear, as much as we all would love it to happen.
They've already disappeared up their own backsides.
True.
But people speculating that they will somehow not be around is nonsense.
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There is no chance that these clubs will disappear, as much as we all would love it to happen.
Then I will. If they are allowed to stay in the Premier League while having guaranteed Super League football regardless of performance, the game is dead to me.
That is not going to happen, but I do think a compromise which gives them more money and power is likely. UEFA and Leagues like the PL hold the stronger position at this point.
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It has to happen. They aren't backing down, now. The Premier League (and La Liga and Serie A) must expel the scab clubs.
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It has to happen. They aren't backing down, now. The Premier League (and La Liga and Serie A) must expel the scab clubs.
So far Barca and Real Madrid has bent the system in Spain so far in their favour.
The question is at what point does the rest of Spanish football say good riddance there is no longer any benefit having you in the league.
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If the Premier League can't/don't ban the teams then they don't allow players to be registered for both competitions.
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If the Premier League can't/don't ban the teams then they don't allow players to be registered for both competitions.
The rules say they have to get permission from the PL Board to join another competition which seems extremely unlikely.
The question is then, what would the clubs vote for as a sanction or punishment if they pushed ahead.
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Nah, then they would just use their billions to acquire squads of forty players so they can with both. They have to be expelled. Nothing else is even vaguely palatable.
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Just to be petty, the other 86 league clubs should announce they're breaking away to form a new competition comprising tiers officially called Divisions 1 to 4, and that the "Big Six"* aren't invited.
*Did a bit of sick
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The next step is a Super League 2, with the next group of teams, which would almost certainly include us.
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As Gary Neville pointed out, let's not forget, these clubs want to have hundreds of millions more each per year AND continue to use that money to dominate the premier League.
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As Gary Neville pointed out, let's not forget, these clubs want to have hundreds of millions more each per year AND continue to use that money to dominate the premier League.
This is why they have to be kicked out, which will also financially (certainly in the short run) harm those left behind.
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The next step is a Super League 2, with the next group of teams, which would almost certainly include us.
Would it? We haven't been in Europe for years, and there are the likes of Ajax, Sevilla and Benfica to consider.
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The next step is a Super League 2, with the next group of teams, which would almost certainly include us.
Would it? We haven't been in Europe for years, and there are the likes of Ajax, Sevilla and Benfica to consider.
I think any notion of the 'Super League' being based on previous success doesn't stand up to much scrutiny.
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The next step is a Super League 2, with the next group of teams, which would almost certainly include us.
Would it? We haven't been in Europe for years, and there are the likes of Ajax, Sevilla and Benfica to consider.
I think any notion of the 'Super League' being based on previous success doesn't stand up to much scrutiny.
True.
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Further news:
Manchester United have stood down from the ECA (Eurpoean Club Association).
Ed Woodward has stepped down from some football council role
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I'd let them go. The CL is a load of crap anyway and has been for years, so getting control out of the hands of FIFA and UEFA may actually benefit us eventually. Be worth seeing what happens because if it fails we don't have to worry about it.
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This feels like Brexit vote. The end of things as we knew them. I have the same feeling in the pit of my stomach that things will never be the same again. No good will come from these developments.
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(https://i.ibb.co/qyDPcyR/F8-AD8866-2-B29-4-BF8-8213-638-FEE9082-D4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qyDPcyR)
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Culture Secretary mooting a possible 50+1 German club style rule being introduced.
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Purslow speaks: "These proposals do away with sporting merit. It would enable a small number of clubs to be in this competition come what may and, for millions of people in football, that goes against everything the sport means and stands for.
"The idea is that the uncertainty that comes with sport, that makes it so compelling, that we all love, is actually damaging to the business model of these huge clubs.
"So the scheme is designed to take away that uncertainty, to give predictability to their businesses so that, if they’re badly managed or have a poor year, they’re still in the premier tournament. Does that sound like sport or football to you? To me it sounds a grotesque concept."
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Wonder what the players think about this, if this goes ahead and players from these teams are banned from playing for their country.
Might see lots of players wanting to leave these teams if that happens.
Most of the money will be going into their pockets - it's a win win for top players financially.
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Purslow speaks: "These proposals do away with sporting merit. It would enable a small number of clubs to be in this competition come what may and, for millions of people in football, that goes against everything the sport means and stands for.
"The idea is that the uncertainty that comes with sport, that makes it so compelling, that we all love, is actually damaging to the business model of these huge clubs.
"So the scheme is designed to take away that uncertainty, to give predictability to their businesses so that, if they’re badly managed or have a poor year, they’re still in the premier tournament. Does that sound like sport or football to you? To me it sounds a grotesque concept."
I'm happy that he has come out with that statement fairly quickly, I hope it mirrors the owners stance as well.
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Wonder what the players think about this, if this goes ahead and players from these teams are banned from playing for their country.
Might see lots of players wanting to leave these teams if that happens.
Most of the money will be going into their pockets - it's a win win for top players financially.
Most of them will do what their Agent tells them.
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Purslow speaks: "These proposals do away with sporting merit. It would enable a small number of clubs to be in this competition come what may and, for millions of people in football, that goes against everything the sport means and stands for.
"The idea is that the uncertainty that comes with sport, that makes it so compelling, that we all love, is actually damaging to the business model of these huge clubs.
"So the scheme is designed to take away that uncertainty, to give predictability to their businesses so that, if they’re badly managed or have a poor year, they’re still in the premier tournament. Does that sound like sport or football to you? To me it sounds a grotesque concept."
Exactly the statement I expected & hoped he'd come out with. I've a lot of time for Purslow, he comes across as a decent sort.
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Wonder what the players think about this, if this goes ahead and players from these teams are banned from playing for their country.
Might see lots of players wanting to leave these teams if that happens.
Most of the money will be going into their pockets - it's a win win for top players financially.
Is it though, because they can still earn millions and play for their country (if it comes to that) by not playing in the so called twats league.
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Purslow speaks: "These proposals do away with sporting merit. It would enable a small number of clubs to be in this competition come what may and, for millions of people in football, that goes against everything the sport means and stands for.
"The idea is that the uncertainty that comes with sport, that makes it so compelling, that we all love, is actually damaging to the business model of these huge clubs.
"So the scheme is designed to take away that uncertainty, to give predictability to their businesses so that, if they’re badly managed or have a poor year, they’re still in the premier tournament. Does that sound like sport or football to you? To me it sounds a grotesque concept."
I'm happy that he has come out with that statement fairly quickly, I hope it mirrors the owners stance as well.
Yeah, glad to hear those comments.
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Purslow speaks: "These proposals do away with sporting merit. It would enable a small number of clubs to be in this competition come what may and, for millions of people in football, that goes against everything the sport means and stands for.
"The idea is that the uncertainty that comes with sport, that makes it so compelling, that we all love, is actually damaging to the business model of these huge clubs.
"So the scheme is designed to take away that uncertainty, to give predictability to their businesses so that, if they’re badly managed or have a poor year, they’re still in the premier tournament. Does that sound like sport or football to you? To me it sounds a grotesque concept."
I'm happy that he has come out with that statement fairly quickly, I hope it mirrors the owners stance as well.
Well played Purslow!
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The way I see it.
1. These clubs would still have to follow PL rules if they stay in, so play their strongest side, same squad size, no help with fixtures
2. More injuries to their players
3. you can only select your 11 and subs so you can have 30 players worth 50m each with your new-found wealth but they all won't be playing
4. All of the above will probably be detrimental to their performance in the PL.
5. Presumably UEFA will ban them so we get to go in the CL anyway.
6. Will severely weaken FIFA and UEFA which can only be good as they're a bunch of corrupt chancers.
5. If it all goes tits up then we'll benefit anyway.
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I would imagine a player in the super league (or whatever it is called) will earn even more money than they do now
The games will be shown on Amazon or You tube via PPV
if we had been invited to join the league do you think Purslow would have still been saying the same things? or would the owners of our club jumped at the chance of joining the league?
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The success of the ESL hangs on how each home FA / League manages their sponsors and TV Deals. The home FAs will only do as much as they can to sanction the breakaway clubs within the constraints of their own financial arrangements. If the current TV deals with the Premier League are rendered null and void if the 6 are expelled, the PL is stuffed from exerting any sanctions.
If the breakaway means the 6 don't play in the domestic Cup competitions, that's no effective sanction on them - and if the FA insist they do participate in domestic trophies, they'll do what we did this season and play a junior side.
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The way I see it.
1. These clubs would still have to follow PL rules if they stay in, so play their strongest side, same squad size, no help with fixtures
2. More injuries to their players
3. you can only select your 11 and subs so you can have 30 players worth 50m each with your new-found wealth but they all won't be playing
4. All of the above will probably be detrimental to their performance in the PL.
5. Presumably UEFA will ban them so we get to go in the CL anyway.
6. Will severely weaken FIFA and UEFA which can only be good as they're a bunch of corrupt chancers.
5. If it all goes tits up then we'll benefit anyway.
If the Pl allows them to get away with this (stay in the PL), it will be the tail wagging the dog.
And the elite clubs will be making up the rules.
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It all sounds like ... does anyone remember an H&V article ages ago (in the 90s or early 00s) with a parody report of some super league?
As well as sounding like a belated April Fools.
Glad to see Purslow come out strongly against it.
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Well said Christian Purslow. Grotesque is what it is.
Now the scab six need to be left in no doubt what pariahs they are.
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Does their arrogance mean they think they can continue to play domestic league football but that they will be permanently withdrawing from current European football and domestic cup competitions?
Is that their plan?
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The way I see it.
1. These clubs would still have to follow PL rules if they stay in, so play their strongest side, same squad size, no help with fixtures
2. More injuries to their players
3. you can only select your 11 and subs so you can have 30 players worth 50m each with your new-found wealth but they all won't be playing
4. All of the above will probably be detrimental to their performance in the PL.
5. Presumably UEFA will ban them so we get to go in the CL anyway.
6. Will severely weaken FIFA and UEFA which can only be good as they're a bunch of corrupt chancers.
5. If it all goes tits up then we'll benefit anyway.
If the Pl allows them to get away with this (stay in the PL), it will be the tail wagging the dog.
And the elite clubs will be making up the rules.
yeah i'm talking strictly on whether it could turn out to be good for Aston Villa. The whole moral angle is a different question. Its also interesting to note that some of those clubs have had major run ins with UEFA and also some of the clubs not in it were considered UEFA's pets like the German/French clubs.
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Does their arrogance mean they think they can continue to play domestic league football but that they will be permanently withdrawing from current European football and domestic cup competitions?
Is that their plan?
Juve have generously volunteered to play in the CL as well for a while. Bless em
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Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd and Tottenham fans waking up this morning...
(https://i.ibb.co/Ssq2YDt/ccvzrbwha9tx.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ssq2YDt)
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Tottenham/Arsenal fans must be gutted. They gone from being also-rans in the PL to the whipping boys in the ESL
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The way I see it.
1. These clubs would still have to follow PL rules if they stay in, so play their strongest side, same squad size, no help with fixtures
2. More injuries to their players
3. you can only select your 11 and subs so you can have 30 players worth 50m each with your new-found wealth but they all won't be playing
4. All of the above will probably be detrimental to their performance in the PL.
5. Presumably UEFA will ban them so we get to go in the CL anyway.
6. Will severely weaken FIFA and UEFA which can only be good as they're a bunch of corrupt chancers.
5. If it all goes tits up then we'll benefit anyway.
If the Pl allows them to get away with this (stay in the PL), it will be the tail wagging the dog.
And the elite clubs will be making up the rules.
yeah i'm talking strictly on whether it could turn out to be good for Aston Villa. The whole moral angle is a different question. Its also interesting to note that some of those clubs have had major run ins with UEFA and also some of the clubs not in it were considered UEFA's pets like the German/French clubs.
It would be good for us if the PL kicked them out, anything that allows them to run their own competition whilst still being in the PL would be awful for us. It would make them even more dominant.
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Wonder what the players think about this, if this goes ahead and players from these teams are banned from playing for their country.
Might see lots of players wanting to leave these teams if that happens.
Most of the money will be going into their pockets - it's a win win for top players financially.
Is it though, because they can still earn millions and play for their country (if it comes to that) by not playing in the so called twats league.
Look at the sums the top sports people earn in the US - they will follow the money (with their agents).
Ironically it looks like Arsenal and Spurs will never now have won the Champions League plus City's will be tarnished IF they win this year.
The irony for City is that they are jumping into bed with the clubs that tried to bring them down with FFP.....
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Yep.
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The way I see it.
1. These clubs would still have to follow PL rules if they stay in, so play their strongest side, same squad size, no help with fixtures
2. More injuries to their players
3. you can only select your 11 and subs so you can have 30 players worth 50m each with your new-found wealth but they all won't be playing
4. All of the above will probably be detrimental to their performance in the PL.
5. Presumably UEFA will ban them so we get to go in the CL anyway.
6. Will severely weaken FIFA and UEFA which can only be good as they're a bunch of corrupt chancers.
5. If it all goes tits up then we'll benefit anyway.
If the Pl allows them to get away with this (stay in the PL), it will be the tail wagging the dog.
And the elite clubs will be making up the rules.
yeah i'm talking strictly on whether it could turn out to be good for Aston Villa. The whole moral angle is a different question. Its also interesting to note that some of those clubs have had major run ins with UEFA and also some of the clubs not in it were considered UEFA's pets like the German/French clubs.
It would be good for us if the PL kicked them out, anything that allows them to run their own competition whilst still being in the PL would be awful for us. It would make them even more dominant.
I wouldn't kick them out. Serious. It's going to effect the money we get off SKY and weaken us. Let them stay in, suffer having to play all the extra games, lose the CL money with maybe us gaining it. To break cover like this, they must have the financial backing of major players so its going to happen. Why not benefit from it?
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Personally I just wish they'd be honest about the whole thing.
Trying to wrap this up as good for the entire game and that it'll allow money to flow through the entire pyramid better is obvious bullshit and everyone knows it.
If they'd come out and said that covid has shown that they need better control of their finances to ensure they can meet their commitments I'd still think they were t**ts but at least they'd be telling the truth. Trying to paint a veneer of respectability over the whole thing means that not only are they t**ts but that they think the majority of fans aren't intelligent enough to notice.
Fuck it I'd give the players 12months notice (i.e. up to the earliest possible start date for it) and then anyone still at any of these clubs is banned from international football. Every club would be fined, docked points and kicked out of European competition this season (on the back of arranging this behind the backs of the current organisation) and fully remove them from all FA/UEFA/FIFA affiliated competitions as soon as an actual start date to the super league is announced.
However anyone advocating for Celtic and Rangers to join the league in their place should be flogged in the streets, fuck the pair of them.
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I wouldn't kick them out. Serious. It's going to effect the money we get off SKY and weaken us. Let them stay in, suffer having to play all the extra games, lose the CL money with maybe us gaining it. To break cover like this, they must have the financial backing of major players so its going to happen. Why not benefit from it?
Because it's the thin end of the wedge. The end goal is clearly an NFL style 24 or 32 team Super League, with franchises in the major European [footballing] cities, and then in time in places like Qatar. It'll be a completey closed shop, and then we'll just be left with completely devalued national leagues.
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Zero tolerance for me. Any teams joining this competition are expelled from the Premier League and European competitions. To boot, any player at one of those clubs is no longer eligible to represent their country in international competitions.
Can see a Super League becoming stale quite quickly, so would add the caveat that any team wishing to rejoin should do so at National League level.
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The way I see it.
1. These clubs would still have to follow PL rules if they stay in, so play their strongest side, same squad size, no help with fixtures
2. More injuries to their players
3. you can only select your 11 and subs so you can have 30 players worth 50m each with your new-found wealth but they all won't be playing
4. All of the above will probably be detrimental to their performance in the PL.
5. Presumably UEFA will ban them so we get to go in the CL anyway.
6. Will severely weaken FIFA and UEFA which can only be good as they're a bunch of corrupt chancers.
5. If it all goes tits up then we'll benefit anyway.
If the Pl allows them to get away with this (stay in the PL), it will be the tail wagging the dog.
And the elite clubs will be making up the rules.
yeah i'm talking strictly on whether it could turn out to be good for Aston Villa. The whole moral angle is a different question. Its also interesting to note that some of those clubs have had major run ins with UEFA and also some of the clubs not in it were considered UEFA's pets like the German/French clubs.
It would be good for us if the PL kicked them out, anything that allows them to run their own competition whilst still being in the PL would be awful for us. It would make them even more dominant.
I wouldn't kick them out. Serious. It's going to effect the money we get off SKY and weaken us. Let them stay in, suffer having to play all the extra games, lose the CL money with maybe us gaining it. To break cover like this, they must have the financial backing of major players so its going to happen. Why not benefit from it?
How can you let them stay after their treachery? They'd also have an additional £3 billion in their pockets so any lingering sense of competitiveness at the top of the league would be dead.
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Zero tolerance for me. Any teams joining this competition are expelled from the Premier League and European competitions. To boot, any player at one of those clubs is no longer eligible to represent their country in international competitions.
Can see a Super League becoming stale quite quickly, so would add the caveat that any team wishing to rejoin should do so at National League level.
All exactly what I would say too.
Can imagine fans of those teams becoming bored pretty quickly if they did go have domestic football to watch and getting fed up of losing a lot of matches in this Super League.
Might mean clubs joining the Football League from those cities, to pick up the fans. There's already FC United of Manc and AFC Liverpool for example.
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Zero tolerance for me. Any teams joining this competition are expelled from the Premier League and European competitions. To boot, any player at one of those clubs is no longer eligible to represent their country in international competitions.......
Me too.
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Its obvious this is all about money and protecting 'status' in this closed shop model. What the clubs themselves have not considered is the competition side. Most of these sides are used to winning as a mentality and expectation. How long would the fan base and club be happy to watch their teams finish mid table? Will become stale very very quick.
Hoping the leagues come down on these lot and HARD. Id start today by relegating them, saying no relegation from prem this year and then promoting 6 up.
If they want to play domestic football as well then fine, but they can do it in the EFL and enjoy fitting those 8 million games in alongside this precious 'Super' League
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I wouldn't kick them out. Serious. It's going to effect the money we get off SKY and weaken us. Let them stay in, suffer having to play all the extra games, lose the CL money with maybe us gaining it. To break cover like this, they must have the financial backing of major players so its going to happen. Why not benefit from it?
Because it's the thin end of the wedge. The end goal is clearly an NFL style 24 or 32 team Super League, with franchises in the major European [footballing] cities, and then in time in places like Qatar. It'll be a completey closed shop, and then we'll just be left with completely devalued national leagues.
Well was that not the gameplan anyway? They've certainly been edging towards that scenario as it is. All this is grabbing a bigger slice of the cake that we wouldn't have been asked to taste anyway. I'd be very surprised if SKY didn't know all about this anyway because you don't piss off your major revenue supplier and just announce it to them. Bottom line is there will be less money and less exposure for us if we chuck them out the PL. This way, at least the foreign fans will still pay to watch ManU in the PL.
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Zero tolerance for me. Any teams joining this competition are expelled from the Premier League and European competitions. To boot, any player at one of those clubs is no longer eligible to represent their country in international competitions.
Can see a Super League becoming stale quite quickly, so would add the caveat that any team wishing to rejoin should do so at National League level.
Well said.
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I wouldn't kick them out. Serious. It's going to effect the money we get off SKY and weaken us. Let them stay in, suffer having to play all the extra games, lose the CL money with maybe us gaining it. To break cover like this, they must have the financial backing of major players so its going to happen. Why not benefit from it?
Because it's the thin end of the wedge. The end goal is clearly an NFL style 24 or 32 team Super League, with franchises in the major European [footballing] cities, and then in time in places like Qatar. It'll be a completey closed shop, and then we'll just be left with completely devalued national leagues.
Agree. Also I think the opportunity in the US has not gone un noticed. Whilst NFL games sell out every week there has been a year on year decline in TV audiences. Football (particularly PL and ECL) is gaining popularity as is participation at every level.
Once they have successfully created a Franchise then they will have the ability to take it to an even wider audience without the Geographical Boundaries of European and Domestic Football.
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I wouldn't kick them out. Serious. It's going to effect the money we get off SKY and weaken us. Let them stay in, suffer having to play all the extra games, lose the CL money with maybe us gaining it. To break cover like this, they must have the financial backing of major players so its going to happen. Why not benefit from it?
Because it's the thin end of the wedge. The end goal is clearly an NFL style 24 or 32 team Super League, with franchises in the major European [footballing] cities, and then in time in places like Qatar. It'll be a completey closed shop, and then we'll just be left with completely devalued national leagues.
Well was that not the gameplan anyway? They've certainly been edging towards that scenario as it is. All this is grabbing a bigger slice of the cake that we wouldn't have been asked to taste anyway. I'd be very surprised if SKY didn't know all about this anyway because you don't piss off your major revenue supplier and just announce it to them. Bottom line is there will be less money and less exposure for us if we chuck them out the PL. This way, at least the foreign fans will still pay to watch ManU in the PL.
More Trolling.
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So, will they rename and rebrand themselves.
The Liverpool liver birds.
The Man City rush
The Tottenham cocks.
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Interestingly the Times are reporting that the breakaway already have solicitors ready to fight any punishments...
Also, the 3 "spare" spots are obviously PSG, Bayern and Dortmund, let's hope they don't crack.
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You'd imagine PSG would all over it, but would hope the ownership structure of the German clubs would stop them.
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More hope on Dortmund than the other two, as they are a bunch of weirdos, but we'll see.
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I wouldn't kick them out. Serious. It's going to effect the money we get off SKY and weaken us. Let them stay in, suffer having to play all the extra games, lose the CL money with maybe us gaining it. To break cover like this, they must have the financial backing of major players so its going to happen. Why not benefit from it?
Because it's the thin end of the wedge. The end goal is clearly an NFL style 24 or 32 team Super League, with franchises in the major European [footballing] cities, and then in time in places like Qatar. It'll be a completey closed shop, and then we'll just be left with completely devalued national leagues.
Well was that not the gameplan anyway? They've certainly been edging towards that scenario as it is. All this is grabbing a bigger slice of the cake that we wouldn't have been asked to taste anyway. I'd be very surprised if SKY didn't know all about this anyway because you don't piss off your major revenue supplier and just announce it to them. Bottom line is there will be less money and less exposure for us if we chuck them out the PL. This way, at least the foreign fans will still pay to watch ManU in the PL.
I'm not sure if you've missed what I'm getting at. They'll only be in the Premier League for the time it takes them to get the fully fledged Super League up and running, then they'll leave and just play in that. We'll then be left with the Premier League with us and Everton as the biggest teams left and the likes of Sheffield United and Norwich making up the 6 who have left, and with the best will in the world, nobody's going to pay good money for that.
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I wouldn't kick them out. Serious. It's going to effect the money we get off SKY and weaken us. Let them stay in, suffer having to play all the extra games, lose the CL money with maybe us gaining it. To break cover like this, they must have the financial backing of major players so its going to happen. Why not benefit from it?
Because it's the thin end of the wedge. The end goal is clearly an NFL style 24 or 32 team Super League, with franchises in the major European [footballing] cities, and then in time in places like Qatar. It'll be a completey closed shop, and then we'll just be left with completely devalued national leagues.
Well was that not the gameplan anyway? They've certainly been edging towards that scenario as it is. All this is grabbing a bigger slice of the cake that we wouldn't have been asked to taste anyway. I'd be very surprised if SKY didn't know all about this anyway because you don't piss off your major revenue supplier and just announce it to them. Bottom line is there will be less money and less exposure for us if we chuck them out the PL. This way, at least the foreign fans will still pay to watch ManU in the PL.
More Trolling.
eh? What bit? Do you really think Aston Villa and its revenue streams have ever featured in UEFA's long terms plans for the CL?. They've always been about looking after the established clubs and reacted horribly to the likes of Chelsea and Man City crashing the party. If Lerner had been successful in getting us in the CL on a regular basis we would have got the same treatment
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Zero tolerance for me. Any teams joining this competition are expelled from the Premier League and European competitions. To boot, any player at one of those clubs is no longer eligible to represent their country in international competitions.......
Me too.
With this approach all the way. A line in the sand need to be drawn and now is the time
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Interestingly the Times are reporting that the breakaway already have solicitors ready to fight any punishments...
Of course they have and the Lawyers are looking forward to a Fee fest.
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And classless twats sack Jose.
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And classless twats sack Jose.
Seems more than a coincidence that it's today - wonder if he kicked off at Levy about the whole thing?
I can't imagine Pep is impressed either as it devalues their CL semi-final and he doesn't like to talking to the press at the best of time.
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And classless twats sack Jose.
Very harsh. He got Spurs into the Super League in his first full season.
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Quote on the BBC from Christian Purslow.
Aston Villa chief executive Christian Purslow says the proposed Super League is a "grotesque concept". Speaking to BBC Radio Four, he said: "These proposals do away with sporting merit. It would enable a small number of clubs to be in this competition come what may and, for millions of people in football, that goes against everything the sport means and stands for.
"The idea is that the uncertainty that comes with sport, that makes it so compelling, that we all love, is actually damaging to the business model of these huge clubs.
"So the scheme is designed to take away that uncertainty, to give predictability to their businesses so that, if they're badly managed or have a poor year, they're still in the premier tournament. Does that sound like sport or football to you? To me it sounds a grotesque concept."
Well said Christian.
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And classless twats sack Jose.
Very harsh. He got Spurs into the Super League in his first full season.
Ace !
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Fucking hell.....it’s all kicking off, Pru.
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I wouldn't kick them out. Serious. It's going to effect the money we get off SKY and weaken us. Let them stay in, suffer having to play all the extra games, lose the CL money with maybe us gaining it. To break cover like this, they must have the financial backing of major players so its going to happen. Why not benefit from it?
Because it's the thin end of the wedge. The end goal is clearly an NFL style 24 or 32 team Super League, with franchises in the major European [footballing] cities, and then in time in places like Qatar. It'll be a completey closed shop, and then we'll just be left with completely devalued national leagues.
Well was that not the gameplan anyway? They've certainly been edging towards that scenario as it is. All this is grabbing a bigger slice of the cake that we wouldn't have been asked to taste anyway. I'd be very surprised if SKY didn't know all about this anyway because you don't piss off your major revenue supplier and just announce it to them. Bottom line is there will be less money and less exposure for us if we chuck them out the PL. This way, at least the foreign fans will still pay to watch ManU in the PL.
I'm not sure if you've missed what I'm getting at. They'll only be in the Premier League for the time it takes them to get the fully fledged Super League up and running, then they'll leave and just play in that. We'll then be left with the Premier League with us and Everton as the biggest teams left and the likes of Sheffield United and Norwich making up the 6 who have left, and with the best will in the world, nobody's going to pay good money for that.
Well we're a bit more robust than a lot of leagues I think, so if that happened I wouldn't be that worried. Certainly more than 15 clubs capable of 40000 plus attendances in the pyramid. I think people would still come through the turnstiles to watch it. I have no wish to watch Liverpool play Man U 4 times per season with no relegation/promotion although I can imagine that would appeal to overseas viewers but it sounds no better than the CL to me. They seem to be talking about some sort of promotion relegation anyway because well if you don't you get stagnation.. Anyway if you let them stay, you have them over a barrel. The PL wouldn't sign an agreement where they could fuck off in 5 years because there's nothing in it for them.
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And classless twats sack Jose.
Seems more than a coincidence that it's today - wonder if he kicked off at Levy about the whole thing?
I can't imagine Pep is impressed either as it devalues their CL semi-final and he doesn't like to talking to the press at the best of time.
Pep is a hypocritical sellout, and the whole sanctimonious Barça hierarchy are too.
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The Premier League are in a bit of a bind. They have signed TV deals a commercial arrangements with sponsors that assumes a 20-team
stable league and - implicit - the presence of the so-called Giants. It will find the money drops off quickly, so its ability to wave a big stick at the scabs is somewhat limited.,
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And classless twats sack Jose.
Very harsh. He got Spurs into the Super League in his first full season.
Ace !
Yes, excellent.
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The Premier League are in a bit of a bind. They have signed TV deals a commercial arrangements with sponsors that assumes a 20-team
stable league and - implicit - the presence of the so-called Giants. It will find the money drops off quickly, so its ability to wave a big stick at the scabs is somewhat limited.,
Depends on the finances of these breakaway clubs. I imagine the likes of Chelsea and City are okay, but Arsenal, Man U, Tottenham etc.. Over in Spain, rumours Barca are not in good shape... Probably Italy as well. Can they afford to lose their place at the trough while they set this league up? The PL will take a big financial hit if they left straight away, but they'd survive.
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Well we're a bit more robust than a lot of leagues I think, so if that happened I wouldn't be that worried. Certainly more than 15 clubs capable of 40000 plus attendances in the pyramid. I think people would still come through the turnstiles to watch it. I have no wish to watch Liverpool play Man U 4 times per season with no relegation/promotion although I can imagine that would appeal to overseas viewers but it sounds no better than the CL to me. They seem to be talking about some sort of promotion relegation anyway because well if you don't you get stagnation.. Anyway if you let them stay, you have them over a barrel. The PL wouldn't sign an agreement where they could fuck off in 5 years because there's nothing in it for them.
I'm struggling to think of 15 clubs if those 6 bugger off. Us, Newcastle, West Ham, Everton, Sunderland. Leeds and Leicester at a push. Crowds that big would be a rarity anyway with that lot gone for good.
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Depends on the finances of these breakaway clubs. I imagine the likes of Chelsea and City are okay, but Arsenal, Man U, Tottenham etc.. Over in Spain, rumours Barca are not in good shape... Probably Italy as well. Can they afford to lose their place at the trough while they set this league up? The PL will take a big financial hit if they left straight away, but they'd survive.
The whole point is yes they can, JP Morgan have pledged £3.5bn for the clubs. That's £300m each before they've kicked a ball. I imagine that with the potential world wide income they're eyeing up, they'd double or triple that if they had to.
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At least they've finally had the balls to announce it.
The issue we have these days is that because of the big TV deals, players get way more money than they used to. Without the TV money, there won't be the huge salaries for the players. In my view, that's not such a bad thing because the better players will still get a good wage, just not stupid money.
The fans will still go, because let's face it, we all like to watch competitive football (more so than friendlies) and want to win competitions. I stopped for an hour to watch an Under-13s game on Saturday and enjoyed it immensely.
Our games against these 6 are normally in higher demand, but they should just get replaced by other teams.
People have used the NFL as an example of what this would be like, yet if you look at American Football and see what else happens there, the College games are just as, if not more, atmospheric and the crowds are huge. The team in 30th place on the attendance list in 2019 had an average gate of 54,000.
I think football is so popular that it would remain. Albeit changed, but it would be for the better. There's a fantastic opportunity right now to let the greedy fuckers piss off and stop spoiling the game for everyone else.
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Real & Barcelona have huge debts.
Juventus can't pay their wages.
The Glaziers have piled the debt onto Man Utd.
Spurs have a ground they haven't paid for, Small Heath have won more trophies in the last decade than Spurs.
They want more money so they can keep their badly run clubs afloat. But ultimately any extra money will go to the players & in 5 - 10 years they'll be back in debt.
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Quote on the BBC from Christian Purslow.
Aston Villa chief executive Christian Purslow says the proposed Super League is a "grotesque concept". Speaking to BBC Radio Four, he said: "These proposals do away with sporting merit. It would enable a small number of clubs to be in this competition come what may and, for millions of people in football, that goes against everything the sport means and stands for.
"The idea is that the uncertainty that comes with sport, that makes it so compelling, that we all love, is actually damaging to the business model of these huge clubs.
"So the scheme is designed to take away that uncertainty, to give predictability to their businesses so that, if they're badly managed or have a poor year, they're still in the premier tournament. Does that sound like sport or football to you? To me it sounds a grotesque concept."
Well said Christian.
if Lerner and co were still at the helm it would have been a very different approach.
American owners...most of them it seems really want to NFLallise football. With all their wealth and you'd think brains they'd grasp that there is more to it than money. Culture, Community, history and love are all what make football what it is. That doesn't exist in mercenary players playing the game in Kuala Lumpur in air-conditioned stadiums in front of a crowds that have very little understanding about the spectacle they have attended. I suppose you could say the owners wont care about that as long as the money keeps rolling in. People will tire of it. Not much demand for the Harlem Globetrotters these days is there?
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Just reading that the club owners behind the ESL want to focus on 'Fans of the Future' rather than 'legacy fans'.
'Legacy Fans' are those who pre-dated their involvement in these clubs.
Wow. The contempt is mind blowing. Is it really a good idea to write off the very people who made your club what it is?
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if Lerner and co were still at the helm it would have been a very different approach.
American owners...most of them it seems really want to NFLallise football. With all their wealth and you'd think brains they'd grasp that there is more to it than money. Culture, Community, history and love are all what make football what it is. That doesn't exist in mercenary players playing the game in Kuala Lumpur in air-conditioned stadiums in front of a crowds that have very little understanding about the spectacle they have attended. I suppose you could say the owners wont care about that as long as the money keeps rolling in. People will tire of it. Not much demand for the Harlem Globetrotters these days is there?
Have you seen the demand for tickets for NFL games in London though, and that's a relatively parochial sport with limited world wide appeal compared to football.
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So what exactly was the criteria for inclusion in this fabulous league? Could it be levels of debt they are all in?
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The Premier League are in a bit of a bind. They have signed TV deals a commercial arrangements with sponsors that assumes a 20-team
stable league and - implicit - the presence of the so-called Giants. It will find the money drops off quickly, so its ability to wave a big stick at the scabs is somewhat limited.,
Sky would probably sue the PL if they kicked them out.
I think the only way this can be stopped for English teams is if their fans - the likes of Liverpool and ManU throw a total wobbler and protest and boycott etc.
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So what exactly was the criteria for inclusion in this fabulous league? Could it be levels of debt they are all in?
Big city
Big stadium
Owners of dubious morality who would agree to be part of it
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The Premier League are in a bit of a bind. They have signed TV deals a commercial arrangements with sponsors that assumes a 20-team
stable league and - implicit - the presence of the so-called Giants. It will find the money drops off quickly, so its ability to wave a big stick at the scabs is somewhat limited.,
Sky would probably sue the PL if they kicked them out.
I think the only way this can be stopped for English teams is if their fans - the likes of Liverpool and ManU throw a total wobbler and protest and boycott etc.
The Legacy Fans? It couldn't be clearer how little the owners give a fuck about them.
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Just reading that the club owners behind the ESL want to focus on 'Fans of the Future' rather than 'legacy fans'.
'Legacy Fans' are those who pre-dated their involvement in these clubs.
Wow. The contempt is mind blowing. Is it really a good idea to write off the very people who made your club what it is?
Fans of the future are people sitting in an apartment block in Shanghai or Oman or Seoul or suchlike who have never stepped foot into a football stadium, but will sit there in their football shirt watching a live stream of The Manchester Devils vs The Milan Pizzaboys after paying $25 for the stream.
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if Lerner and co were still at the helm it would have been a very different approach.
American owners...most of them it seems really want to NFLallise football. With all their wealth and you'd think brains they'd grasp that there is more to it than money. Culture, Community, history and love are all what make football what it is. That doesn't exist in mercenary players playing the game in Kuala Lumpur in air-conditioned stadiums in front of a crowds that have very little understanding about the spectacle they have attended. I suppose you could say the owners wont care about that as long as the money keeps rolling in. People will tire of it. Not much demand for the Harlem Globetrotters these days is there?
Have you seen the demand for tickets for NFL games in London though, and that's a relatively parochial sport with limited world wide appeal compared to football.
Sure there will be some demand for it. In NFL's case there would be enough Americans in the UK who'd want to see the odd game in London. Football is bigger world wide than NFL, there is no international NFL. ESL Players not being involved in the International scene... will they be the stars that people want to see? NFL isn't football and thank God it isn't football.
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The threat of stopping players from playing in the World Cup for their countries would be legally challenged, as the players will argue that they are being forced into this Super league by their clubs.
True. It would then be the responsibility of the individual nations to merely refuse to select them.
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Money laundering scheme no more, no less.
Fans of the future, I can imagine them now in their half & half scarves and half & half shirts sat in a mega sports bar in Dubai, 300 screens showing football, IPL cricket, baseball, ice hockey, sipping sub zero American tasteless piss beer and eating nachos. Grotesque indeed.
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Just reading that the club owners behind the ESL want to focus on 'Fans of the Future' rather than 'legacy fans'.
'Legacy Fans' are those who pre-dated their involvement in these clubs.
Wow. The contempt is mind blowing. Is it really a good idea to write off the very people who made your club what it is?
Fans of the future are people sitting in an apartment block in Shanghai or Oman or Seoul or suchlike who have never stepped foot into a football stadium, but will sit there in their football shirt watching a live stream of The Manchester Devils vs The Milan Pizzaboys after paying $25 for the stream.
The 39th game will become every game when the crowds won't turn up in numbers any more.
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I would have thought preventing players playing for their national teams is the easiest thing to implement.
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I'm glad ESL.com is already taken anyway.
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Depends on the finances of these breakaway clubs. I imagine the likes of Chelsea and City are okay, but Arsenal, Man U, Tottenham etc.. Over in Spain, rumours Barca are not in good shape... Probably Italy as well. Can they afford to lose their place at the trough while they set this league up? The PL will take a big financial hit if they left straight away, but they'd survive.
The whole point is yes they can, JP Morgan have pledged £3.5bn for the clubs. That's £300m each before they've kicked a ball. I imagine that with the potential world wide income they're eyeing up, they'd double or triple that if they had to.
It's not much though is it in the scale of things. Man U spent 522 million in expenditure in 2020, they owe about 400m I think, they lost 70m from no crowds etc... Then you take out 131m from the premier league money. And no CL money.....108m. Not saying they're likely to go under but if they're going to take big hit leaving now and the 300m will keep them as is as the premier massive money making operation, then other clubs are going to be in a worse situation. Of course its possible that the likes of Barca were already in bad shape due to covid and this announcement is basically because they couldn't survive much longer.
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I would have thought preventing players playing for their national teams is the easiest thing to implement.
I suspect that such a prospect wouldn't unduly disturb these players.
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Why aren't Wolves being invited in is the real scandal.....
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That Super League announcement in full:
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Something else, how cowardly to do it with no fans in the grounds to vent their feelings.
You can imagine the atmosphere at Villa Park on Wednesday had we been there.
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If you wanted to stop it, you only have to look to Sky. I'm guessing they're involved here, but they still need subscriptions to survive like anyone else and the ESL would be counting on them to bid at least to raise the bidding. Take them out and they won't be making the money they hoped.
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The recent attempt at changing the pl voting rules looks even more sinister now.
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There is nothing worse than watching a dead rubber. The Super League will be full of them. Let the big 6 go and face the consequences of their greed. Asia is welcome to them.
There are enough remaining big clubs in the UK whose support would double/treble if they thought they had a chance of winning something. The pyramid is littered with big clubs who have been largely abandoned due to the big 6 dominance. These clubs have the potential to be massive again.
The big 6 players have a dilemma. Most of them are mercenaries who only moved to the UK for more money so they will gladly join their club in a Super League. The UK born players will have to show their true colours and I reckon lots of them will hand in transfer requests. Likewise, their fans have a dilemma, I can see some of them abandoning their club and choosing to follow a so called lesser club.
With sponsors aplenty, TV companies scrambling for coverage, increased fan base and a more level playing field the Premier League and EFL could flourish.
Next to the Royal Family, Football is the biggest institution in the UK and it will survive and flourish regardless as to whether the big 6 stay or not.
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I tell you something else, we've a lot of good parenting to do.
Too many people let their kids support these clubs; it really has to stop.
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If they do stay, there should be organised boycotts of all matches involving the "Big 6" - no fans in the ground, nobody watch on TV. Treat it like an international weekend when Villa play Man City at VP and go to watch a non-league team instead. I assume 13 individual tickets for the other home games would work out cheaper than a season ticket for 19 home games anyway.
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Well we're a bit more robust than a lot of leagues I think, so if that happened I wouldn't be that worried. Certainly more than 15 clubs capable of 40000 plus attendances in the pyramid. I think people would still come through the turnstiles to watch it. I have no wish to watch Liverpool play Man U 4 times per season with no relegation/promotion although I can imagine that would appeal to overseas viewers but it sounds no better than the CL to me. They seem to be talking about some sort of promotion relegation anyway because well if you don't you get stagnation.. Anyway if you let them stay, you have them over a barrel. The PL wouldn't sign an agreement where they could fuck off in 5 years because there's nothing in it for them.
I'm struggling to think of 15 clubs if those 6 bugger off. Us, Newcastle, West Ham, Everton, Sunderland. Leeds and Leicester at a push. Crowds that big would be a rarity anyway with that lot gone for good.
The clubs mentioned have all maintained healthy crowds during recent spells outside the top flight.
Being in the Championship didn't dampen my desire to want to go to games and if anything, it's the games against the so called 'top six' which I don't really have as much interest in.
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Globalisation init. Where other countries can steal your culture even, if they have the money.
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Globalisation init. Where other countries can steal your culture even, if they have the money.
Nearly, but it's not as nationalist as that. It's the divorcing of the rich from the rest, the real 'nowheres' against the rest of us 'somewheres'.
It's also European football becoming a victim of its own success. We've all grown used to the idea that the best players all come here, that even South American countries are reduced to feeder leagues, never mind Africa or Asia. But with that global domination comes this deracination, as the global revenues for the richest few begin to dwarf those generated locally, cutting off these clubs from the people who built them and transforming them into franchises.
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Globalisation init. Where other countries can steal your culture even, if they have the money.
Nearly, but it's not as nationalist as that. It's the divorcing of the rich from the rest, the real 'nowheres' against the rest of us 'somewheres'.
It's also European football becoming a victim of its own success. We've all grown used to the idea that the best players all come here, that even South American countries are reduced to feeder leagues, never mind Africa or Asia. But with that global domination comes this deracination, as the global revenues for the richest few begin to dwarf those generated locally, cutting off these clubs from the people who built them and transforming them into franchises.
It's about making money over all other considerations - which is basically what Globalisation is. You've got a load of foreign owned clubs, bankrolled by an American bank to make money in territories where the punters have no cultural, historical, or geographical ties and will probably never step inside the clubs or indeed the countries involved. Welcome to the new order...……..
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If you wanted to stop it, you only have to look to Sky. I'm guessing they're involved here, but they still need subscriptions to survive like anyone else and the ESL would be counting on them to bid at least to raise the bidding. Take them out and they won't be making the money they hoped.
I had no idea that you liked football, sb! Wink.
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There is nothing worse than watching a dead rubber. The Super League will be full of them. Let the big 6 go and face the consequences of their greed. Asia is welcome to them.
There are enough remaining big clubs in the UK whose support would double/treble if they thought they had a chance of winning something. The pyramid is littered with big clubs who have been largely abandoned due to the big 6 dominance. These clubs have the potential to be massive again.
The big 6 players have a dilemma. Most of them are mercenaries who only moved to the UK for more money so they will gladly join their club in a Super League. The UK born players will have to show their true colours and I reckon lots of them will hand in transfer requests. Likewise, their fans have a dilemma, I can see some of them abandoning their club and choosing to follow a so called lesser club.
With sponsors aplenty, TV companies scrambling for coverage, increased fan base and a more level playing field the Premier League and EFL could flourish.
Next to the Royal Family, Football is the biggest institution in the UK and it will survive and flourish regardless as to whether the big 6 stay or not.
Yes, I was thinking that this might prove a massive shot in the arm for the game in many ways: supporting your local team never resonated so loudly.
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Globalisation init. Where other countries can steal your culture even, if they have the money.
Mate, wait until you hear about colonialism!
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Still I'd rather not say 'other countries steal your culture' - especially as British people we should be very careful saying that. What you say is otherwise right though - although who's to say that they won't step inside the clubs involved, as I have zero doubt that the show would be taken on the road.
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It will be the 39th game on crack.
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If you wanted to stop it, you only have to look to Sky. I'm guessing they're involved here, but they still need subscriptions to survive like anyone else and the ESL would be counting on them to bid at least to raise the bidding. Take them out and they won't be making the money they hoped.
I had no idea that you liked football, sb! Wink.
heh. Its a spurious rumour spread by my detractors.
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That I can get on board with.
Edit: I was responding to the offer of crack, which is definitely what Bren'd was suggesting.
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If you wanted to stop it, you only have to look to Sky. I'm guessing they're involved here, but they still need subscriptions to survive like anyone else and the ESL would be counting on them to bid at least to raise the bidding. Take them out and they won't be making the money they hoped.
I had no idea that you liked football, sb! Wink.
heh. Its a spurious rumour spread by my detractors.
Detractors? You? I've heard everything now!
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Still I'd rather not say 'other countries steal your culture' - especially as British people we should be very careful saying that. What you say is otherwise right though - although who's to say that they won't step inside the clubs involved, as I have zero doubt that the show would be taken on the road.
well it is what it is. Whatever our past, it doesn't change what is happening now. Stealing clubs away from the people who supported them day in, year out so they can sell it to some guy in Saudi Arabia, China or America.
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It's not stealing if they're selling themselves. To continue the analogy, much of the sport in this continent has been acting like the nawabs in the 18th century who made quick-buck deals with the East India Company in competition with each other, hastening the division and conquest for short-term personal gain.
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It's not stealing if they're selling themselves. To continue the analogy, much of the sport in this continent has been acting like the nawabs in the 18th century who made quick-buck deals with the East India Company in competition with each other, hastening the division and conquest for short-term personal gain.
I know a political party where the nawabs would feel right at home.
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I'll tell you what would be funny. The government passing a law that football clubs must be majority owned by a UK resident. You could probably do it as well. Kill it stone dead. yeah I know it wouldn't happen but I can dream.. ::)
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I'll tell you what would be funny. The government passing a law that football clubs must be majority owned by a UK resident. You could probably do it as well. Kill it stone dead. yeah I know it wouldn't happen but I can dream.. ::)
Or implement a 50-plus-1 rule. Would be a definite upside of Brexit as I don't think they'd have any legal recourse. Not, to be fair, that I think the EU is at all in favour of this either, but changing the law would be trickier.
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Yes, because all foreign people are evil. Much prefer brave British defenders of Socialism and workers' rights, like Mike Ashley.
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Yes, because all foreign people are evil. Much prefer brave British defenders of Socialism and workers' rights, like Mike Ashley.
not at all. you only have to look at the UK crooks who've owned clubs. But it would take out sharks like the Glazers who'd happily move Man U to Asia if they could. Although at the present time i'm struggling to think of that as a bad idea
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I'll tell you what would be funny. The government passing a law that football clubs must be majority owned by a UK resident. You could probably do it as well. Kill it stone dead. yeah I know it wouldn't happen but I can dream.. ::)
Where would that leave Villa's owners?
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I'll tell you what would be funny. The government passing a law that football clubs must be majority owned by a UK resident. You could probably do it as well. Kill it stone dead. yeah I know it wouldn't happen but I can dream.. ::)
Where would that leave Villa's owners?
Would depend on their motives I guess. Are they fans, are they looking for a return on their investment? The old days where you had the local businessman looking for an ego trip has some advantages, as well as disadvantages.
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I'll tell you what would be funny. The government passing a law that football clubs must be majority owned by a UK resident. You could probably do it as well. Kill it stone dead. yeah I know it wouldn't happen but I can dream.. ::)
Where would that leave Villa's owners?
He knows where our owners are from, every comment he makes is to get a reaction.
Dont feed him
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I am vehemently opposed to the idea of this super league.
But if it shoves it up the arse of people who spout shit like ‘stealing our culture’ I’ll gladly back the idea.
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Big city
Big stadium
Owners of dubious morality who would agree to be part of it
I shocked that a reputable bank like JP Morgan would be involved with anything that might be considered morally dubious.
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Big city
Big stadium
Owners of dubious morality who would agree to be part of it
I shocked that a reputable bank like JP Morgan would be involved with anything that might be considered morally dubious.
Why would a bank, who have only one business objective care about anything other than their one business objective?
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Respect to Liverpool supporters for demanding all their flags are removed from The Kop for their next game.
I just don't see any true supporters wanting this.
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The more I'm thinking about this, the more I think - just let them leave. If they want some kind of global NFL thing, fine, knock yourselves out. The league will survive, much like college football in the US survives despite the NFL. But the English league should not supply teams to 'qualify' for it.
Absolutely in favour of supporting fan-owned clubs (e.g. FC United of Mancs, AFC Liverpool) in to replace their counterparts, in the same division. Where possible, the old name of the clubs should be reclaimed. Apparently a council can revoke the use of it's name (https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2021/apr/19/european-super-league-latest-reaction-to-breakaway-football-competition-live?page=with:block-607d611e8f08080a7ae651ce#block-607d611e8f08080a7ae651ce), so I'd be inclined to instruct all clubs (except Arsenal?) to cease & desist, with the name being attributed to the fan-owned alternative.
Think any players who are currently under contract at a Super League club, it'd be horribly unfair for them to be ineligible for the national team. However, any player signing a new contract (as of today) should be prevented from representing their country for the duration of that contract.
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The recent attempt at changing the pl voting rules looks even more sinister now.
It certainly does.
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Are we looking at a case of "it could've been that, so accept this" as a way of scaring football into greater reform than it would've been open to, prior to this announcement?
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I only ask one thing and that is there is no coming back or at least for a certain timeframe which is say 10 years and they have to start again from the bottom. Let’s see how loyal these fans really are. Other than that I see nothing but positives, it will hopefully bring the finances of clubs back in line, there should be forecast to allow for this and give time to each club to sort itself out. It will be great to see some of the bigger clubs, us included competing for trophies again. If it doesn’t happen, there’s a real chance I will never see villa win the league again, if it does there’s a real chance they will.
The biggest positive of all will be that it will get rid of this pathetic up the arse of the “big six” notion. Even now on talkSPORT it’s all “fans of the big six get in touch” nothing about how this will effect the rest. Should have happened years ago, get rid, thanks for all the dodgy decisions that have cost clubs like ours against them in cup finals, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
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JP Morgan would only have put up the money if they'd spoken to the broadcasters who'd bid on it, so there's the wedge. If the PL throw them out, and SKY default on the contract, then cancel your subscription. If they attempt to bid on the ESL then cancel your subscription. if anyone else bids then don't take a subscription. I'm pretty sure English fans of the big6 aren't pleased about this so they will abstain as well. The whole idea is based on the assumption football fans are just consumer sheep who will buy whatever because they haven't got anywhere else to go. A mistake various political parties have made and also something Murdoch made with the Sun in Liverpool. Won't stop the overseas markets buying but at least they're feel it in their pocket.
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There's no way those clubs will allow themselves to have the European Super League and nothing else. It'd be suicide and they know it. The thing that concerns me is what they're doing with their left hand whilst we're all looking at their right hand. I await the announcement of the new CL format with dread.
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Respect to Liverpool supporters for demanding all their flags are removed from The Kop for their next game.
I just don't see any true supporters wanting this.
Yeah, I do think it has to be remembered in all this that the supporters of those six clubs might be just as opposed to the plans as everyone else.
I have found myself wondering this morning how I would feel if we were one of the six clubs involved.
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This feels like Brexit vote. The end of things as we knew them. I have the same feeling in the pit of my stomach that things will never be the same again. No good will come from these developments.
What you are suggesting that it could prove to to actually be the best thing to happen to football and all our fears are unfounded?
Stop trying to politicise everything
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Respect to Liverpool supporters for demanding all their flags are removed from The Kop for their next game.
I just don't see any true supporters wanting this.
Yeah, I do think it has to be remembered in all this that the supporters of those six clubs might be just as opposed to the plans as everyone else.
I have found myself wondering this morning how I would feel if we were one of the six clubs involved.
I'd honestly rather go and get a Blues season ticket.
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Respect to Liverpool supporters for demanding all their flags are removed from The Kop for their next game.
I just don't see any true supporters wanting this.
Yeah, I do think it has to be remembered in all this that the supporters of those six clubs might be just as opposed to the plans as everyone else.
I have found myself wondering this morning how I would feel if we were one of the six clubs involved.
when this was muted last year, I didn't come across 1 big six fan who was for it. Realistically no-one gives a fuck about the likes of AC Milan, Inter and Juventus because you wouldn't........ Its entirely the sort of thing that excites overseas viewers.
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Et tu Doncaster?
Linky (https://twitter.com/MyDoncaster/status/1384090569962524683?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1384090569962524683%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Ffootball%2Flive%2F2021%2Fapr%2F19%2Feuropean-super-league-latest-reaction-to-breakaway-football-competition-live%3Fpage%3Dwith3Ablock-607d68be8f08080a7ae65274)
Originally posted off topic but possibly worth posting here as wll.
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Just annoys me that there are enough people on this planet that will pay good money to watch a “closed shop” super league.
I’d find it as boring as hell with no real jeopardy or genuine “best in Europe claims to whoever wins it.
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Respect to Liverpool supporters for demanding all their flags are removed from The Kop for their next game.
I just don't see any true supporters wanting this.
Yeah, I do think it has to be remembered in all this that the supporters of those six clubs might be just as opposed to the plans as everyone else.
I have found myself wondering this morning how I would feel if we were one of the six clubs involved.
I'd honestly rather go and get a Blues season ticket.
Yep, I'd be done. I've not heard anyone in support of it yet.
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Either way if this goes ahead with them staying or not staying in their respective domestic leagues - it will fail. It will be shite and most wont watch it.
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Respect to Liverpool supporters for demanding all their flags are removed from The Kop for their next game.
I just don't see any true supporters wanting this.
Yeah, I do think it has to be remembered in all this that the supporters of those six clubs might be just as opposed to the plans as everyone else.
I have found myself wondering this morning how I would feel if we were one of the six clubs involved.
when this was muted last year, I didn't come across 1 big six fan who was for it. Realistically no-one gives a fuck about the likes of AC Milan, Inter and Juventus because you wouldn't........ Its entirely the sort of thing that excites overseas viewers.
And they don't really care about the English clubs either, other than as romantic European memories.
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JP Morgan would only have put up the money if they'd spoken to the broadcasters who'd bid on it, so there's the wedge.
JP Morgan have done no such thing. They are financing the deal by providing the money mentioned as a loan. They will effectively own/part own all the clubs in the deal.
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Either way if this goes ahead with them staying or not staying in their respective domestic leagues - it will fail. It will be shite and most wont watch it.
If they are allowed to stay in their Domestic Leagues it will succeed Financially.
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Unnamed board member quoted on Sky
"Our primary job is to maximise our revenues and profits, the wider good of the game is a secondary concern."
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The PL defector Clubs are absolutely sure they will not be thrown out of the League as remaining 14 would be too scared to lose their pulling power. Time now for FA, PL Board and the 14 to stand up.
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This is Real Madrid's way of trying to screw tyhe EPL which they have always been resentful of, particularly as they haven't got a pot to piss in. This is the prime example of Mr Zimmerman's money doesn't talk it swears line. Greedy, grasping rapacious coonts.
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The irony of the sign at old Trafford with the quote attributed to Sir Matt Busby
"Football is nothing without the fans"
I have said that TV companies do not need fans - they can have any KO time they like , which all helps the gambling trade around the world, they can dub crowd noise on if needed as Covid has proved.
When they rushed to get the game back was it for the morale of the people or so they can squeeze every penny out of a captive audience.
Very proud that our club as always have a moral compass.
To be honest i cannot see it being pushed on and i must admit i have a huge respect for Gary Neville we know he is a genuine fan and it hurts him probably more than all the other plastics
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Respect to Liverpool supporters for demanding all their flags are removed from The Kop for their next game.
I just don't see any true supporters wanting this.
Yeah, I do think it has to be remembered in all this that the supporters of those six clubs might be just as opposed to the plans as everyone else.
I have found myself wondering this morning how I would feel if we were one of the six clubs involved.
when this was muted last year, I didn't come across 1 big six fan who was for it. Realistically no-one gives a fuck about the likes of AC Milan, Inter and Juventus because you wouldn't........ Its entirely the sort of thing that excites overseas viewers.
And they don't really care about the English clubs either, other than as romantic European memories.
yep its the competition that matters.. Since the CL appeared even rivalry among European clubs isn't really there. No-one has a fierce rivalry with Real Madrid say even if your Liverpool or Chelsea or Man United. I'd imagine it would be the same for Real Madrid fans or Inter fans
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What would be nice to see would be a few big named players like Mount, Kane, Rashford and the like threaten to hand in transfer requests.
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I have written a hard-hitting, no-holds-barred piece here: https://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=62055.0, which might be shit.
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JP Morgan would only have put up the money if they'd spoken to the broadcasters who'd bid on it, so there's the wedge.
JP Morgan have done no such thing. They are financing the deal by providing the money mentioned as a loan. They will effectively own/part own all the clubs in the deal.
they'd still have to know they'd be getting their money back. The first question they'd ask is who's buying the tv rights to make a profit I would have thought. I think its highly unlikely the ESL just went "well probably SKY" and JP Morgan went "that's good enough for us!"
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I can see protests at grounds if this gets any more serious.
These people are too removed from the outside world to realise that the anger that's going to rain down on them, will be loud and unpleasant.
If the Premier League told these clubs to fuck off at the end of the season then seriously, who would miss them? I'm beginning to warm to the idea of them not being around at all.
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I can see protests at grounds if this gets any more serious.
These people are too removed from the outside world to realise that the anger that's going to rain down on them, will be loud and unpleasant.
If the Premier League told these clubs to fuck off at the end of the season then seriously, who would miss them? I'm beginning to warm to the idea of them not being around at all.
Liverpool fans already have protest banners up.
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The PL defector Clubs are absolutely sure they will not be thrown out of the League as remaining 14 would be too scared to lose their pulling power. Time now for FA, PL Board and the 14 to stand up.
This is the crux of the matter.
The Financial implications for the EPL is enormous. They have a choice, take the hit now, or be cannibalised by the 6 parasitical clubs.
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I have written a hard-hitting, no-holds-barred piece here: https://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=62055.0, which might be shit.
I agree with Sexual Ealing.
Erm, not about it being shit. I mean I agree with the article.
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Let them go and court worldwide fans - quite a few from here would probably pay up - it's the fans that go to matches that are being erased here. If they are kicked out it's a great opportunity to make the PL more competitive (for a few years, until the next 'big six' are created).
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Big city
Big stadium
Owners of dubious morality who would agree to be part of it
I shocked that a reputable bank like JP Morgan would be involved with anything that might be considered morally dubious.
Why would a bank, who have only one business objective care about anything other than their one business objective?
Morality, decency, the milk of human kindness?
But you are right, why should morality be a hinderance in acheiving their one business objective when they have repeatedly shown over the last 20 years that they haven't cared about legality in pursute of that objective?
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The owners of these football clubs did not make their fortunes by being nice and always playing by the rules
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Let them take VAR with them too.
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Either way if this goes ahead with them staying or not staying in their respective domestic leagues - it will fail. It will be shite and most wont watch it.
If they are allowed to stay in their Domestic Leagues it will succeed Financially.
It won’t succeed financially as they won’t generate enough money. The shine is going off the CL and this will be even more boring, sterile and artificial. It will be boycotted by fans that would have paid for CL games. It will like a league of endless friendlies played by wankers we will all hate.
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There's no way those clubs will allow themselves to have the European Super League and nothing else. It'd be suicide and they know it. The thing that concerns me is what they're doing with their left hand whilst we're all looking at their right hand. I await the announcement of the new CL format with dread.
Honestly think that is their real intention of all of to his. This ESL stuff is just a smokescreen to try and push through the changes to the Champions League format they want.
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Either way if this goes ahead with them staying or not staying in their respective domestic leagues - it will fail. It will be shite and most wont watch it.
The 6 will stay in the EPL - the EPL can't afford to let them go, sadly.
And it - the ESL - will probably fizzle and die out.
And everyone in the governance of the game will pretend it never happened.
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Either way if this goes ahead with them staying or not staying in their respective domestic leagues - it will fail. It will be shite and most wont watch it.
If they are allowed to stay in their Domestic Leagues it will succeed Financially.
It won’t succeed financially as they won’t generate enough money. The shine is going off the CL and this will be even more boring, sterile and artificial. It will be boycotted by fans that would have paid for CL games. It will like a league of endless friendlies played by wankers we will all hate.
Of course it would, they would be able to dictate the terms under which they participate in the EPL and dominate future football contracts across the globe. They need the platform of the Domestic Leagues initially but not long term.
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Super League players banned from international football.
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Super League players banned from international football.
Greedy clubs will attract only greedy players. Players that want to play for their countries will look to join other clubs and some of those clubs' players will seek to move away if this is seen through to it's end.
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There's no way those clubs will allow themselves to have the European Super League and nothing else. It'd be suicide and they know it. The thing that concerns me is what they're doing with their left hand whilst we're all looking at their right hand. I await the announcement of the new CL format with dread.
Honestly think that is their real intention of all of to his. This ESL stuff is just a smokescreen to try and push through the changes to the Champions League format they want.
That was my thought initially. Thing is do you really go this far along the route and involve JP Morgan for what's basically a bluff?
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Super League players banned from international football.
Can they actually do that legally? This is nothing to do with them realistically, and they couldn't get out of their club contracts even if they wanted to. I'm sure it would fail if they took it to court.
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Super League players banned from international football.
Can they actually do that legally? This is nothing to do with them realistically, and they couldn't get out of their club contracts even if they wanted to. I'm sure it would fail if they took it to court.
I imagine they could there’s no contractual obligation to select the best players for internationals. They can just say they’re not eligible for selection.
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National FAs choose their national representative teams, they can choose who they want as long as that player qualifies to play for that country
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Still its a bit harsh to wreck someone's international career because you had the misfortune to play for a certain club.
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Still its a bit harsh to wreck someone's international career because you had the misfortune to play for a certain club.
Yep, and what about players from these 6 clubs who might be on loan to “normal” clubs. Where would that leave them?
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Still its a bit harsh to wreck someone's international career because you had the misfortune to play for a certain club.
Yep, and what about players from these 6 clubs who might be on loan to “normal” clubs. Where would that leave them?
Surely the wreckers are the 12 clubs signed up to this obscenity?
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I'd be up for allowing current players to play for their national teams but banning anyone who signs for them from now on, as they know what they're signing up for.
Still, they could always request a transfer, I suppose.
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Hopefully there won’t be loan arrangements between the renegade league and the rest.
Let them have their own little (closed shop) world to play in and have no interaction between them and the rest of football.
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Still its a bit harsh to wreck someone's international career because you had the misfortune to play for a certain club.
Yeah maybe so, but there was always going to be collateral in something like this. The players have plenty of power if they chose to wield it.
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Apparently Bruno Fernandes has indicated his approval for the new league. Ban that tw@t for a start. At least we wouldn't have to watch his shitty, skippy penalties.
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Super League players banned from international football.
Can they actually do that legally? This is nothing to do with them realistically, and they couldn't get out of their club contracts even if they wanted to. I'm sure it would fail if they took it to court.
Of course they can, even ignoring the fact that international selection is subjective (and therefore not being picked is no grounds for legal action), players have to be registered with an FA that is under FIFA, if FIFA don't recognise this tournament then those registrations are meaningless.
The broader implications because of that though is that there would be no protections left in place. If one of these clubs wants your player they could pay him a fortune to 'retire' from his contract and then join them with no need to transfer his registration, etc. The player would obviously be given a ban (probably lifetime) as a result but that wouldn't apply to that league anyway because FIFA would have no jurisdiction. The only rules they'd need to care about would be whatever they decide to add. In fact even the laws of the game would have no real meaning so it would pretty quickly turn into a different sport.
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Still its a bit harsh to wreck someone's international career because you had the misfortune to play for a certain club.
Yep, and what about players from these 6 clubs who might be on loan to “normal” clubs. Where would that leave them?
Simple solution: it only applies to players who've signed contracts on or after 19th April 2021. No player gets 'prevented' from playing for England - they can just see out their contract then move elsewhere. However, if they agree to continue as an employee of the club then they can't play for England.
Blanket ban on loans between ESL clubs and clubs in the FA/Football League pyramid. They're either signed up with one, or the other, not both.
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Who are the cricket buffs on here? What was the final result of the Kerry Packer period?
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Apparently Bruno Fernandes has indicated his approval for the new league. Ban that tw@t for a start. At least we wouldn't have to watch his shitty, skippy penalties.
...and his pathetic, screaming dives.
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Who are the cricket buffs on here? What was the final result of the Kerry Packer period?
Ran for 2 seasons & died.
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Apparently Bruno Fernandes has indicated his approval for the new league. Ban that tw@t for a start. At least we wouldn't have to watch his shitty, skippy penalties.
...and his pathetic, screaming dives.
Lads it's the opposite, he's agreeing with Daniel Podence who's criticised the proposals. I think it's fair enough, as he's the first player from a club involved to indicate anything.
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Herrera came out and slagged it off which is brave considering PSG look likely to get an invite. I'd imagine most of the players being penalised by this ban are probably against the ESL so I don't think alienating them is a good start from UEFA and FIFA
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Yeah its worth saying he and Joao Cancelo have, in expressing their support for Podence's post, effectively signalled their opposition to it, the first players to do so.
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Surely the creation of a 'Super League' would necessitate new contracts for any players involved anyway? I'm no expert, but creating a new competition without consulting players (allegedly), then telling them they have to play in it, sounds a bit dodgy to me. Unless their current contracts cover this eventuality, but I can't imagine they do.
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Yeah its worth saying he and Joao Cancelo have, in expressing their support for Podence's post, effectively signalled their opposition to it, the first players to do so.
Doesn't surprise me that Portuguese players might be among the first. In what universe are Spurs a bigger club than Benfica? That absurdity might hit home harder for them.
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...if FIFA don't recognise this tournament then those registrations are meaningless.
Is it certain which way FIFA will jump? Will they back UEFA or go for a power grab along with these clubs? I wouldn't put the latter past them.
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Yeah its worth saying he and Joao Cancelo have, in expressing their support for Podence's post, effectively signalled their opposition to it, the first players to do so.
It's Cancelo culture gone mad!
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This is going to end like Vince McMahon's attempt to create the XFL in opposition to the NFL.
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UEFA name dropping us now as maybe being a big club, with reference to how these things go in cycles.
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Ceferin certainly knows which way his bread is buttered - on the cyclical nature of who is and is not elite, he mentioned us as a prime candidate for the big time.
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Meeting for the PL 14 tomorrow. Kick the ****** out.
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Meeting for the PL 14 tomorrow. Kick the ****** out.
I hope we're right at the vanguard on this. Us, Everton, Newcastle (though Christ alive the state of their ownership), West Ham need to be strong.
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This is going to end like Vince McMahon's attempt to create the XFL in opposition to the NFL.
I'm just surprised given its American funded that the Harlem Globetrotters haven't been given a place.
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Apparently Bruno Fernandes has indicated his approval for the new league. Ban that tw@t for a start. At least we wouldn't have to watch his shitty, skippy penalties.
...and his pathetic, screaming dives.
Lads it's the opposite, he's agreeing with Daniel Podence who's criticised the proposals. I think it's fair enough, as he's the first player from a club involved to indicate anything.
Brazilian Villain either speaks Brazilian-Portugese or the Longford kind ;D
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Meeting for the PL 14 tomorrow. Kick the ****** out.
I hope we're right at the vanguard on this. Us, Everton, Newcastle (though Christ alive the state of their ownership), West Ham need to be strong.
Haven't West Ham (and Southampton) already cosied-up to them when it comes to PL voting?
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Meeting for the PL 14 tomorrow. Kick the ****** out.
Will be great if they do.
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Just looking at the table. Keep our nerve and finish above Leeds and we're in the CL lads 8)
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Meeting for the PL 14 tomorrow. Kick the ****** out.
I hope we're right at the vanguard on this. Us, Everton, Newcastle (though Christ alive the state of their ownership), West Ham need to be strong.
Haven't West Ham (and Southampton) already cosied-up to them when it comes to PL voting?
They’d be rather shortsighted not to review that position.
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This is a terrible idea it's just about money they are running off in to the sunset with there bags of money and don't care about what this will do to the Premier League and EFL Leagues.
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If players are concerned about their international futures then they need to use their voice and deal with this. The “superleague” won’t be in great demand if none of the top players want to be involved.
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If UEFA and FIFA are against this then who in their right mind, as a player is going to sign for these idiots? It has the possibility of ending up like the Chinese league, made up of overpaid has-beens or never weres looking for a last big pay day. Even "us lesser clubs" pay their star players about £120k per week [which is enough to live on I would have thought], so who is going to give up the prospect of not winning a World Cup medal for an extra £50k per week? Long time retired.
Thats why players will come out against it, and as long as FIFA and UEFA don't compromise it will die a death ...
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So which sides are going into next seasons Champions League?
Don't the preliminary rounds start in July or something like that?
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Super League players banned from international football.
Has anyone broken the news to Southgate regarding Mount and Eric dier?
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I dunno. The only thing this has going for it, is it could take-out UEFA and FIFA. Two organisations mired in self-interest, corruption and obsessed with "improving" the rules and competitions where its totally fucked up football anyway. . Not saying the ESL are any better but they couldn't be much worse
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Imagine being a young player say Phil Foden for example, and now because your owner is a greedy ****** you can no longer play for your country, or to do so you have to leave the club you've been at since a child.
I rarely have sympathy for football players but this looks like it's been done over their heads and they could be punished for actually doing nothing wrong.
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Just seen this in the DT
“ An anonymous board member for one the English Super League clubs has spoken to Sky Sports to describe the proposals not as "civil war [but] it's a nuclear war."
In an extremely inflammatory statement, the anonymous exec said: “Our job is to maximise our revenues. The wider good of the game is a secondary concern. The clubs don’t care about the backlash and opinions of the fans."
At least it’s an honest statement, even if it’s disgraceful and hidden behind a cloak of anonymity
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If they kick them out, we will legitimately be the biggest and most successful English club again. Trololololol
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Imagine being a young player say Phil Foden for example, and now because your owner is a greedy ****** you can no longer play for your country, or to do so you have to leave the club you've been at since a child.
I rarely have sympathy for football players but this looks like it's been done over their heads and they could be punished for actually doing nothing wrong.
I would have thought the players are only just above you and I in the decision making process.
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If they kick them out, we will legitimately be the biggest and most successful English club again. Trololololol
Bring back the Wanderers I say. We'll need some competition.
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Imagine being a young player say Phil Foden for example, and now because your owner is a greedy ****** you can no longer play for your country, or to do so you have to leave the club you've been at since a child.
I rarely have sympathy for football players but this looks like it's been done over their heads and they could be punished for actually doing nothing wrong.
I would have thought the players are only just above you and I in the decision making process.
That’s what makes me laugh when supporters groups say that they weren’t consulted.
Like that would make the slightest shred of difference.
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If they kick them out, we will legitimately be the biggest and most successful English club again. Trololololol
And also "typical Villa" would peak with a 7-2 win over Champions Liverpool and 3-0 hammering at Arsenal away meaning absolutely nothing. Prior to that, the most typical Villa thing I could think of was beating Champions Manchester City away and losing to Division 4 Bradford in the same cup run.
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Just seen this in the DT
“ An anonymous board member for one the English Super League clubs has spoken to Sky Sports to describe the proposals not as "civil war [but] it's a nuclear war."
In an extremely inflammatory statement, the anonymous exec said: “Our job is to maximise our revenues. The wider good of the game is a secondary concern. The clubs don’t care about the backlash and opinions of the fans."
At least it’s an honest statement, even if it’s disgraceful and hidden behind a cloak of anonymity
Assuming it is true, and I know about trusting sources and honouring the "as long as you keep my name off it" but surely the name of the above board member and club they represent could be leaked anonymously as well so the "legacy fans" know how their club feels about them.
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Just seen this in the DT
“ An anonymous board member for one the English Super League clubs has spoken to Sky Sports to describe the proposals not as "civil war [but] it's a nuclear war."
In an extremely inflammatory statement, the anonymous exec said: “Our job is to maximise our revenues. The wider good of the game is a secondary concern. The clubs don’t care about the backlash and opinions of the fans."
At least it’s an honest statement, even if it’s disgraceful and hidden behind a cloak of anonymity
Assuming it is true, and I know about trusting sources and honouring the "as long as you keep my name off it" but surely the name of the above board member and club they represent could be leaked anonymously as well so the "legacy fans" know how their club feels about them.
I certainly hope so
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To be honest, it's obviously all of them.
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Personally I think we should take advantage of the chaos and form a Midlands superleague
SuperMidlandsPremier League: Us Wolves, WBA, Forest, Leicester, Cov, Stoke, Derby,
Div2 Mansfield, Walsall, chesterfield , Northampton, Notts County
Div3 Blose, Solihull Moors
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so, the next question is, which teams based on their Historical standing will replace these wankers
Forest
Blackburn
Albion
S.Wed
Derby
???
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I wonder if the Glasgow two would get invited. Big followings...
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I wonder if the Glasgow two would get invited. Big followings...
Not as big as former European Cup winners Leeds. "Leeds are massive".
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If they kick them out, we will legitimately be the biggest and most successful English club again. Trololololol
Something similar came up on SHA last night i.e. that Villa would the league with those 6 kicked out. :)
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i'd imagine they'd like PSG and the german clubs but probably kept them out of the loop due to their closeness to UEFA
I fell sorry for Serie A and la Liga who have been virtually gutted. They weren't much more than 1 league anyway.
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I wonder if the Glasgow two would get invited. Big followings...
No French or German teams in the ESL, I'd rather invite Marseilles, Nice, Nancy, Reims, Frankfurt, Herther, Bayern than have 2 pub teams from Scotland thanks.
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Loved this comment from some chap to the Guardian:
“So, the president of Uefa has just used his press conference to berate the founding members of ESL, while launching the new revamped Champions League, which was created to benefit only the clubs from the bigger leagues, further guaranteeing their place in future champion leagues. The hypocrisy is rank. Uefa had no problem siding up to these clubs in the past as long as they were in the financial picture, now they have been left on the sidelines they have all of a sudden developed a moral conscious regarding fairness. Give me break, they laid the groundwork for this to happen, they only have themselves to blame.”
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It's all well and good accusing UEFA of hypocrisy but where does that leave us? We are reliant on the governing bodies stopping this so need them to be strong. As I saw someone say on another forum "you can be a hypocrite and still be right"
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I wonder if the Glasgow two would get invited. Big followings...
Wouldn't plucking the 2 biggest teams from the SPL have a similar impact on the SPL as losing the "big 6" in England would on the Premier League?
It would financially damaging the rest of Scottish football and mean the Premier League would lose the moral high ground it currently has. It's a no from me.
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I also disagree "they only have themselves to blame". Personally I'd put the blame at the doors of the clubs involved.
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I wonder if the Glasgow two would get invited. Big followings...
No French or German teams in the ESL, I'd rather invite Marseilles, Nice, Nancy, Reims, Frankfurt, Herther, Bayern than have 2 pub teams from Scotland thanks.
Actually I love this idea.
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Nothing UEFA can do really. It's money, so realistically as far as Europe is concerned you can only stop buying subscriptions from any broadcaster who buys the rights to the ESL. That goes for us as well as fans of the big 6 who are unhappy. I'm sure their business model expects everyone to move on and continue blindly paying over the dosh to them, but it may just not work out that way this time
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It's all well and good accusing UEFA of hypocrisy but where does that leave us? We are reliant on the governing bodies stopping this so need them to be strong. As I saw someone say on another forum "you can be a hypocrite and still be right"
Yup. 'Better the devil you know' springs to mind.
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There is no chance that these clubs will disappear, as much as we all would love it to happen.
They've already disappeared up their own backsides.
True.
But people speculating that they will somehow not be around is nonsense.
I'm not so sure. Barcelona according to the Guardian article are £1 Billion in debt. Real and Juventus are in similar financial trouble. They may have been going down the toilet in due course anyway. Being part of this abomination may for them seem to be a salvation like a life raft largely financed by the big 6 from the super rich premier league.
I think the "New" Premier League without the "6" would be really good to watch from the get go. I think most of the player's will jump ship anyway and so would find their way back into regular football clubs. Any gaps would be filled from a multitude of fresh faced young players longing to play for their country one day. If not they can f**k off and become part of the grotesque Circus I hope this league will become.
Up the Villa & Long live football.
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It's all well and good accusing UEFA of hypocrisy but where does that leave us? We are reliant on the governing bodies stopping this so need them to be strong. As I saw someone say on another forum "you can be a hypocrite and still be right"
They pretty much said the same on SHA about Purslow's statement.
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Let's face it, it's been a bad week all round.
“Talk about sadness, I don’t know about you, but I spent time watching the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral at the weekend and for the first time in a long time I was really proud to be British and this morning that’s just gone away."
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There is no chance that these clubs will disappear, as much as we all would love it to happen.
They've already disappeared up their own backsides.
True.
But people speculating that they will somehow not be around is nonsense.
I'm not so sure. Barcelona according to the Guardian article are £1 Billion in debt. Real and Juventus are in similar financial trouble. They may have been going down the toilet in due course anyway. Being part of this abomination may for them seem to be a salvation like a life raft largely financed by the big 6 from the super rich premier league.
I think the "New" Premier League without the "6" would be really good to watch from the get go. I think most of the player's will jump ship anyway and so would find their way back into regular football clubs. Any gaps would be filled from a multitude of fresh faced young players longing to play for their country one day. If not they can f**k off and become part of the grotesque Circus I hope this league will become.
Up the Villa & Long live football.
yep. Have SKY made a statement yet.? You'd think it would concern them seeing they'd lose some of their big revenue earners.. but the silence is deafening. funny that ::)
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Aleksander Ceferin (UEFA President): "Things change. Juventus were in Serie B. Manchester United before Sir Alex Ferguson was I don't know where. Aston Villa was a great club. Why are they creating this? Because they are not well managed."
He's spot on. To attempt to stop the cyclical nature of football is cowardice in the extreme.
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Meeting for the PL 14 tomorrow. Kick the ****** out.
Yep. Quite simple really and promote the top six from the Championship (replaced in Championship by top six from League One etc.).
Considering the current financial issues in the EFL, a total reset of English football might not be the worst thing that could happen to be totally honest. If those six are told to pack their bags, then there obviously won't be as much TV money in the game, but again would that really be a terrible thing?
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It's all well and good accusing UEFA of hypocrisy but where does that leave us? We are reliant on the governing bodies stopping this so need them to be strong. As I saw someone say on another forum "you can be a hypocrite and still be right"
They pretty much said the same on SHA about Purslow's statement.
For the avoidance of doubt I wasn't quoting from SHA. It was from a Man Utd forum, is that even worse??
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What will happen to FFP? Almost irrelevant given the unfair ESL being formed. Massive rewards will easily balance their books!
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so, the next question is, which teams based on their Historical standing will replace these wankers
Forest
Blackburn
Albion
S.Wed
Derby
???
No historical rankings, just base on this year's table. I would still relegate the bottom team, as moaning about closed shops then not having relegation, even for a season, is a bad look. Promote the top six from the Championship and have teams 7-10 contest the playoffs.
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It's all well and good accusing UEFA of hypocrisy but where does that leave us? We are reliant on the governing bodies stopping this so need them to be strong. As I saw someone say on another forum "you can be a hypocrite and still be right"
They pretty much said the same on SHA about Purslow's statement.
For the avoidance of doubt I wasn't quoting from SHA. It was from a Man Utd forum, is that even worse??
Nothing wrong with that at all, if anything the unanimity of fans on this is encouraging.
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We all know what will happen. TV controls football as it is. You'd have to be naïve to think these lot aren't going to turn up on SKY because the whole idea is a broadcasters wet dream - man united playing barca, playing Liverpool playing Madrid. Cancel your subscription because if you pay into them you really can't moan when this sort of shithousery occurs
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It isn't going to be on Sky, I don't think.
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If it isn't, SKY are being very calm about it I think considering they've just lost 6 of the biggest names in their biggest money spinner.
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Thought it not being on SKY/BT was why Neville, Ferdinand etc. were so anti. Or maybe I'm too cynical and they were genuine. Or a bit of both.
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European Cup, UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup. That would be nice.
Jonathan Pearce loves mentioning the Fairs Cup
I've had a look at that and see Birmingham have been in the final twice . Found that surprising. Shocked actually but then read more on it.
Did Villa ever partake on this or was Birmingham then used as the representative of the city?
I see it was for teams of trade fairs pre cursor to uefa Cup likes of Juventus and Barcelona were in it.
The noses in a european final ? Dont be silly. They couldn't get into a West Mids final.In fact in they moved to the Welsh league they still wouldnt make a final.
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Thought it not being on SKY/BT was why Neville, Ferdinand etc. were so anti. Or maybe I'm too cynical and they were genuine. Or a bit of both.
Genuine, IMO. Neville, in particular, often comes across as a decent sort.
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Thought it not being on SKY/BT was why Neville, Ferdinand etc. were so anti. Or maybe I'm too cynical and they were genuine. Or a bit of both.
Just presenters. I know if I was Murdoch and my subscription money pit had just been gutted, i'd be making all sort of statements about breach of contract. Call me cynical but they've been in the loop from the start IMO.
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It's on the Disney Channel.
Sky is under new ownership now and I can't really see them forking out even more when 1/3rd of their market isn't playing in it (Germany).
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Promising and surprisingly strong noises from the government. Obviously I wouldn't trust them to chew gum and spit it out, but if they do actually do something then they will have at least put a real cherry on the shit cake that is them. Like Nixon signing that pollution bill over there.
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Reuters reporting that UEFA meeting on Friday with a view to kicking the clubs out of this season’s Champions League and Europa League. That would be a pretty powerful act.
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Promising and surprisingly strong noises from the government. Obviously I wouldn't trust them to chew gum and spit it out, but if they do actually do something then they will have at least put a real cherry on the shit cake that is them. Like Nixon signing that pollution bill over there.
In terms of government action, can they just say they will deny any work visas for new signings? They want to have a bunch of global megastars playing every week, they'll soon get bored if they can only sign players from Morecambe and Motherwell.
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It's on the Disney Channel.
Sky is under new ownership now and I can't really see them forking out even more when 1/3rd of their market isn't playing in it (Germany).
well if they want to right-off their 1193m per year investment when 6 of them jump ship this summer you could be right. Personally i'd be a bit annoyed if it was me. And they don't seem to be.
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Just on the Celtic Rangers thing
If the Premier League loses six of its biggest clubs why not restructure it into a British league
Don’t just take Celtic and Rangers and leave the little Scottish clubs to rot
But have a Scottish-North-South section in the lower leagues with promotion relegation etc
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Every pundit they've asked has slagged the idea off. I do have some concerns that Sky and/or BT may try to prevent expulsion of the Scab Six, though.
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I woild imagine the united front against the suggestions of a Super League with an alliance stretching from a Tory Govet to FIFA to football supporters around theworld to broadcasting behemoths must be giving the Super 12 some food for thought.
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Just on the Celtic Rangers thing
If the Premier League loses six of its biggest clubs why not restructure it into a British league
Don’t just take Celtic and Rangers and leave the little Scottish clubs to rot
But have a Scottish-North-South section in the lower leagues with promotion relegation etc
lololol!!!
no.
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The new super league will have 20 teams - the 12 founding members plus the three unnamed clubs they expect to join soon, and five sides who qualify annually according to their domestic achievements.
Isn't there a strong indicator Villa will be involved in this gluttony somewhere along the lines?
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The new super league will have 20 teams - the 12 founding members plus the three unnamed clubs they expect to join soon, and five sides who qualify annually according to their domestic achievements.
Isn't there a strong indicator Villa will be involved in this gluttony somewhere along the lines
Think we've had our quota with 6 of them tbh.
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You only have to look at how some of these elite clubs reacted to the pandemic, when their first action was to put support staff onto furlough.
Real Madrid paying the likes of Gareth Bale £600k / week is madness. Having previously sold off their training ground to the local council to clear debts, they're now in financial trouble again.
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The new super league will have 20 teams - the 12 founding members plus the three unnamed clubs they expect to join soon, and five sides who qualify annually according to their domestic achievements.
Isn't there a strong indicator Villa will be involved in this gluttony somewhere along the lines
I certainly hope not.
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The new super league will have 20 teams - the 12 founding members plus the three unnamed clubs they expect to join soon, and five sides who qualify annually according to their domestic achievements.
Isn't there a strong indicator Villa will be involved in this gluttony somewhere along the lines
I certainly hope not.
Me too. It's a shit idea and will prove a big mistake, if as expected they aren't allowed to have their cake and eat it. They will know that the only way they can sell it is to either keep a spot in the feeder leagues (the 'premier' domestic leagues) and a vague promise that "you too, little club, can one day play in our SUPERLEAGUE when we allow it".
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Promising and surprisingly strong noises from the government. Obviously I wouldn't trust them to chew gum and spit it out, but if they do actually do something then they will have at least put a real cherry on the shit cake that is them. Like Nixon signing that pollution bill over there.
In terms of government action, can they just say they will deny any work visas for new signings? They want to have a bunch of global megastars playing every week, they'll soon get bored if they can only sign players from Morecambe and Motherwell.
That was mentioned earlier in The Guardian not just for 'overseas' players signing for the Scabby 6 but also for teams coming to play them here with non-UK players. Another of the benefits of Brexit?
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The new super league will have 20 teams - the 12 founding members plus the three unnamed clubs they expect to join soon, and five sides who qualify annually according to their domestic achievements.
Isn't there a strong indicator Villa will be involved in this gluttony somewhere along the lines
Think we've had our quota with 6 of them tbh.
The main good of being involved is the share of the global spoils than not.
It's a status thing isn't it so it's tricky not to want to be part of that
I don't think Nassef Sawiris wants to miss out on this global opportunity does he?
My proposal
I rather keep Prem as it is. Have a play off for top 4. And relegation keeps things exciting
Have a European champions cup as league winners only.
And a European cup tournament for cup winners
Global audience
All star exhibition matches at Christmas in Dubai and Australia
And in summer in USA Asia
And Cup finals played over seas.
As a compromise
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Or is it these greedy bastards not liking the revised champions league proposal, push out this Agenda and will compromise for a better deal.
Although Spurs would not qualify for champs league anyway
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Just on the Celtic Rangers thing
If the Premier League loses six of its biggest clubs why not restructure it into a British league
Don’t just take Celtic and Rangers and leave the little Scottish clubs to rot
But have a Scottish-North-South section in the lower leagues with promotion relegation etc
I've always thought it was kind of unfair that Hearts and Hibs and Aberdeen have always been viewed kind of as absolute minnows - had McGregor got his way there's every chance one of these could have been a force in a British league system.
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The new super league will have 20 teams - the 12 founding members plus the three unnamed clubs they expect to join soon, and five sides who qualify annually according to their domestic achievements.
Isn't there a strong indicator Villa will be involved in this gluttony somewhere along the lines
I certainly hope not.
Me too. It's a shit idea and will prove a big mistake, if as expected they aren't allowed to have their cake and eat it. They will know that the only way they can sell it is to either keep a spot in the feeder leagues (the 'premier' domestic leagues) and a vague promise that "you too, little club, can one day play in our SUPERLEAGUE when we allow it".
I hope not too. But Eden's and Sawiris would love this stuff of a dream league for status.
Now what I hope is that if these clubs are not allowed, for whatever reason , to form this league then they should be repucusdion and sanctions on the wantaway 6 .
That has to happen or suspension for UEFA European competition at least and points deduction in premier league as a warning.
It's grossly unfair to the Premier league and the European competitions and insulting the 6 should be reprimanded
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The new super league will have 20 teams - the 12 founding members plus the three unnamed clubs they expect to join soon, and five sides who qualify annually according to their domestic achievements.
Isn't there a strong indicator Villa will be involved in this gluttony somewhere along the lines
Think we've had our quota with 6 of them tbh.
The main good of being involved is the share of the global spoils than not.
It's a status thing isn't it so it's tricky not to want to be part of that
I don't think Nassef Sawiris wants to miss out on this global opportunity does he?
My proposal
I rather keep Prem as it is. Have a play off for top 4. And relegation keeps things exciting
Have a European champions cup as league winners only.
And a European cup tournament for cup winners
Global audience
All star exhibition matches at Christmas in Dubai and Australia
And in summer in USA Asia
And Cup finals played over seas.
As a compromise
I just can't see them having a 20 ESL with 7 or 8 English teams out of 20. You think they'd be looking at 3 or 4 Italian, Spanish, French, german teams with maybe an Ajax, Benfica etc... And if it did take off with untold wealth you'd have the same problem you have with coming up to the PL. The teams let in would mostly be the whipping boys and unable to pay the wages for top players or unlikely paying top wages in case they went straight out again.
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Just on the Celtic Rangers thing
If the Premier League loses six of its biggest clubs why not restructure it into a British league
Don’t just take Celtic and Rangers and leave the little Scottish clubs to rot
But have a Scottish-North-South section in the lower leagues with promotion relegation etc
I've always thought it was kind of unfair that Hearts and Hibs and Aberdeen have always been viewed kind of as absolute minnows - had McGregor got his way there's every chance one of these could have been a force in a British league system.
Agreed, but you know perfectly well that any attempt to integrate Scottish football into the "English" pyramid would start and end with the Glasgow two. Exactly the kind of closed shop mentality that is, rightly, being condemned.
I reckon they'll end up joining the ESL scabs, anyway.
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Thought it not being on SKY/BT was why Neville, Ferdinand etc. were so anti. Or maybe I'm too cynical and they were genuine. Or a bit of both.
Genuine, IMO. Neville, in particular, often comes across as a decent sort.
Yeah, Neville's a decent chap in my book. Quite like the guy.
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Putting aside all the bigotry and sectarian unpleasantness, i'm not sure the locals would be that happy seeing Birmingham reduced to cinders twice a season. I think they're still clearing up the mess Rangers made of Manchester.
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The new super league will have 20 teams - the 12 founding members plus the three unnamed clubs they expect to join soon, and five sides who qualify annually according to their domestic achievements.
Isn't there a strong indicator Villa will be involved in this gluttony somewhere along the lines
I certainly hope not.
Purslow has come out against it. He called it grotesque on Radio 4 this morning.
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I've been off work today and had a lot of time to dwell on this. I actually think I feel worse than after relegation, worse than after it was plain Tony was skint. At least on those occasions we had the chance to rise again. If this goes through I don't know what becomes of us.
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Real Madrid, Manchester City and Chelsea will likely be banned from this season’s Champions League semi-finals, UEFA executive committee member Jesper Moller told broadcaster DR on Monday.
“The clubs must go, and I expect that to happen on Friday. Then we have to find out how to finish (this season’s) Champions League tournament,” said Moller, who is the head of the Danish FA. “There is an extraordinary executive committee meeting on Friday.”
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Anyone able to share a link to Purslow’s interview earlier?
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I've been off work today and had a lot of time to dwell on this. I actually think I feel worse than after relegation, worse than after it was plain Tony was skint. At least on those occasions we had the chance to rise again. If this goes through I don't know what becomes of us.
Hold on pal the premier league and champions league would still exist and remain. And certainly increases our chances.
I hope they sanctions the Premier 6 and suspend them
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I wonder if the Glasgow two would get invited. Big followings...
No French or German teams in the ESL, I'd rather invite Marseilles, Nice, Nancy, Reims, Frankfurt, Herther, Bayern than have 2 pub teams from Scotland thanks.
I meant to the ESL. I don't want that lot down here thank you.
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Anyone able to share a link to Purslow’s interview earlier?
Yes BBC radio 4
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000v88z
Navigate to
2hrs 10min and it's around here can hear intro and start of the interview
Best Wishes
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Just on the Celtic Rangers thing
If the Premier League loses six of its biggest clubs why not restructure it into a British league
Don’t just take Celtic and Rangers and leave the little Scottish clubs to rot
But have a Scottish-North-South section in the lower leagues with promotion relegation etc
lololol!!!
no.
I don’t see why it’s a bad idea. Needs to be thought through. Belgium and the Netherlands are doing it.
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Just on the Celtic Rangers thing
If the Premier League loses six of its biggest clubs why not restructure it into a British league
Don’t just take Celtic and Rangers and leave the little Scottish clubs to rot
But have a Scottish-North-South section in the lower leagues with promotion relegation etc
lololol!!!
no.
I don’t see why it’s a bad idea. Needs to be thought through. Belgium and the Netherlands are doing it.
we'll have the smaller clubs. Just not the old firm. Belgium and Netherlands can have them
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The only surprise is that it's taken this long for this to happen. It's been coming since foreign owners started to buy up our clubs. Football in this country is all about your heritage and tradition, but that means nothing to owners. As much as there's a lot of goodwill towards NSWE, let's be honest they bought the club to make money. They had no affinity to the club - they bought it because the previous regime's mismanagement of it had left the club practically worthless.
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I've been off work today and had a lot of time to dwell on this. I actually think I feel worse than after relegation, worse than after it was plain Tony was skint. At least on those occasions we had the chance to rise again. If this goes through I don't know what becomes of us.
Hold on pal the premier league and champions league would still exist and remain. And certainly increases our chances.
I hope they sanctions the Premier 6 and suspend them
Yes I hope that's what happens too but I fear the scab six will get their way. I honestly can't see a good scenario coming out of this. Maybe I'm being too negative.
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I really think this whole thing is a cunning pre-cursor to something else. A bargaining stance if you like. My guess is they will stay in their respective leagues which will all be reduced in number to allow them to fit in their grubby Super League. Greedy soulless bastards all of them.
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On the plus side i'd probably actually pay to see a CL final with just PSG in it.
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On the plus side i'd probably actually pay to see a CL final with just PSG in it.
They'd still find a way to fuck it up.
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They could do a re-run of escape to victory. PSG vs a smattering of Hollywood actors and retired footballers.
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Like several other outlets, the paper says the project is an attempt to reshape European football into an NBA-like tournament "in which every match is an event, and the sport is the means rather than the end: a huge match every night, players who are paid tens of millions per season, extortionate tickets and audiences of billions of people. It's the furthest thing from the European idea of football - and of sport
this is what they want
Cheerleaders, Commentators tossing themselves off. Millions of fans in India, Africa, Asia (outside of Europe) paying TV subscription fees.
Who gives a fuck about 50,000 at the ground buying a Bovril and a pie
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Are we now officially one of 'The Gang Of Fourteen'?
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They could do a re-run of escape to victory. PSG vs a smattering of Hollywood actors and retired footballers.
Anyone with Rocky Balboa in goal would have half a chance!
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They aren't going to get millions watching in Asia when everybody in Asia is asleep.
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They aren't going to get millions watching in Asia when everybody in Asia is asleep.
Simple, move the game to Beijing and kick off at 9pm local time.
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Are we now officially one of 'The Gang Of Fourteen'?
Worst tribute ever! And I've seen ''...from The Jam"*
*I haven't but if that doesn't get Percy posting, I don't know what will...
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so, the next question is, which teams based on their Historical standing will replace these wankers
Forest
Blackburn
Albion
S.Wed
Derby
???
No historical rankings, just base on this year's table. I would still relegate the bottom team, as moaning about closed shops then not having relegation, even for a season, is a bad look. Promote the top six from the Championship and have teams 7-10 contest the playoffs.
Might be a perfect time to trim the league.
18 in the Prem, 2 down (let’s get rid of the baggies 😂) 4 up (top 3 + 1 via play offs)
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Nah, I remember the last time they reduced the Premier League by two teams and not one single club reduced their season ticket prices.
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Nah, I remember the last time they reduced the Premier League by two teams and not one single club reduced their season ticket prices.
Fair point.
What an idiotic idea 😂
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They aren't going to get millions watching in Asia when everybody in Asia is asleep.
Why do you think 12.30 on Saturday games first started?
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Interesting item in The Guardian
Revealed: unpublished Super League document justifying breakaway (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/19/revealed-unpublished-super-league-document-justifying-breakaway?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other)
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They aren't going to get millions watching in Asia when everybody in Asia is asleep.
Why do you think 12.30 on Saturday games first started?
Well, exactly. They've said the league will be midweek only except for the final.
I wonder if they want to be thrown out of domestic leagues so they can play at the weekend too.
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Nevilles rant was superb. I've had the radio on too and from Suffolk today and its pretty much universal condemnation.
The thing is though, the radio stations that are so against it are they going to give it air time, are they going to promote its matches and transfer news etc?
The commentators and pundits who are against it, are they going to commentate and be analysts etc on it?
Of fucking course they are.
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The leagues want to think of some sort of repercussion if nothing comes of it.
I would like to see them all relegated to division 4 (league 2), 3 will spend two seasons there, and given a 6 year transfer embargo. That way even if they all come straight back they will still have 2-3 seasons of no transfers.
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The problem is these owners are so rich, state funded in some cases, that it will be almost impossible to go head to head with them legally. Unfortunately I can't see any prospect of them being ejected from the PL.
This league wil happen. Fans will object but ultimately they will creep back. If they don't the owners simply won't care - look at Kronke moving LA / St Louis Raiders firstly from LA to St Louis and then back again 20 years later. The fans are their last consideration. Whatever happens next they have probably ruined football as we know if for ever. The utter bastards.
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Absolutely glued to Sky at the moment.
There’s so much genuine emotion from both Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher.
Real concern was what Neville said about Joel Glazer.
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They can’t bin them because of the TV deals.
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They absolutely can, and must.
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I don’t disagree, but it would bankrupt the rest of the league.
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I'm sure that's what "Rangers" fans kept telling everyone when they rightly got kicked out of the Scottish top flight. It really wouldn't. Contracts have already been signed.
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The problem is these owners are so rich, state funded in some cases, that it will be almost impossible to go head to head with them legally. Unfortunately I can't see any prospect of them being ejected from the PL.
This league wil happen. Fans will object but ultimately they will creep back. If they don't the owners simply won't care - look at Kronke moving LA / St Louis Raiders firstly from LA to St Louis and then back again 20 years later. The fans are their last consideration. Whatever happens next they have probably ruined football as we know if for ever. The utter bastards.
This is a US money driven project.
They have demonstrated time after time they know fuck all about “soccer” and its fans.
It will spectacularly nosedive and lose eye watering amounts of money.
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A nice touch from Leeds players tonight warming with T shirts printed with "Football is for fans" and "Earn IT" banners.
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If the PL need 14 votes to take action tomorrow against the 6 - then you would think they must have a club in their pocket. I wonder who it might be?
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the 14 will stick together. Surely.
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I can think of a few £m reasons why a club’s head might be turned.
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It’ll come out if one of the 14 are bottle jobs
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Gary Neville is class - words I never thought I'd say :
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the 14 will stick together. Surely.
I can think of a few £m reasons why a club’s head might be turned.
Or inclusion to the new league.
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It’ll come out if one of the 14 are bottle jobs
I suspect the porn dwarfs will.
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Gary Neville is class - words I never thought I'd say :
Agreed.
He should be figurehead of the opposition to this scheme.
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It’ll come out if one of the 14 are bottle jobs
I suspect the porn dwarfs will.
Fair shout.
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Gary Neville is class - words I never thought I'd say :
Yes he's been a joy to listen to in the last 24 hours. Just slated Glaziers again saying they have turned Old Trafford in a rusty tin shed.
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It’ll come out if one of the 14 are bottle jobs
I suspect the porn dwarfs will.
I’d forgotten about those bell ends
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West Ham have announced that they're against the Super League.
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Let’s hope the 14 stay strong.
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You’d have to be mental to be one of the other clubs and be in favour.
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I think they will stick together. Nothing to lose really.
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You’d have to be mental to be one of the other clubs and be in favour.
Like those that vote for rich, privileged politicians in the hope that one day they will be rich and privileged too.
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Yep. Votes over the last few years haven't exactly left me full of confidence.
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You’d have to be mental to be one of the other clubs and be in favour.
Like those that vote for rich, privileged politicians in the hope that one day they will be rich and privileged too.
But in this case the “founders” have made clear that won’t be the case. You’d have to be extremely stupid in this case.
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It's at times like this, when the debate is lifted above the level of cliche driven football banter, that the limitations of certain pundits are cruelly exposed.
Micah Richards coming over like a proper ignoramus on 5live.
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Is there any way back from this now?
I don't think these charlatans are going to back down with this threat, and it's hard to see how the wounds would heal from it even if they did.
For me the tipping point is whether they stay in the PL and do the super league thing. If that's the case, then that is football squarely dead.
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The next stage is making sure the split is financially damaging for them, They're going to have to show the ESL somehow. Whoever shows it, don't subscribe and cancel your satellite/cable if they offer the option to view it.
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They're being given £300 million just to turn up. They HAVE to be removed from the Premier League. No half measure can be acceptable.
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Nobody's going to forget this, even if they change their minds. It'll be unbearable being their supporters at matches.
I think they should be thrown out permanently tbh. They are clearly untrustworthy and treacherous. I don't want them anywhere near football.
However, if they were only to be demoted to Div 2 (old 4th div to be clear ) it might be the best way to get money into the lower divisions. Especially if gate receipts were equally divided both home and away or better still across the division so that even when Arsenal play Spurs the gate money is shared throughout the division.
They'd have no option but to sell their players because they couldn't afford them and they'd put in transfer requests the following day anyway. Sky/BT or whoever would probably bid for TV rights even. Change promotion and religation to 2 teams up 2 down and let them fight it out. It'd be un-missable to watch and it'd take 2 of them at least 6 years to get back to the Prem. I don't think teams in that division would mind not getting promotion for a few seasons because they could be raking it in. They'd also be able to leave a mark on them and maybe teach them a little humility. The longer they stay there the wealthier the "little" teams would get making it more difficult for them. It has a certain poetic justice feel to it I think.
Mind you. I can could see a lot of angry big six supporters trashing towns across the country.
So nah. Kick them out. Permanently!
Utv.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/PodcastPharaohs/status/1384218033023971333
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Is there any way back from this now?
I don't think these charlatans are going to back down with this threat, and it's hard to see how the wounds would heal from it even if they did.
For me the tipping point is whether they stay in the PL and do the super league thing. If that's the case, then that is football squarely dead.
That’s it. If they do it they absolutely must be kicked out.
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The one thing that simple must not happen is that there is a compromise in the PL where they allow these teams to play if the SL goes ahead. They already have the lions share of the revenues anyway, so the compromise to give them any more in some sort of attempt to find peace will kill off the competition for good. Because at some point in the next year they will do this again. There will be no end to it. Time to call their bluff. Stop fucking threatening to leave. Same with UEFA. They have tried to placate these teams by restructuring the CL and they still did this behind their backs. This is over. You heard that from the comments of the President. Those words cannot be taken back.
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They're being given £300 million just to turn up. They HAVE to be removed from the Premier League. No half measure can be acceptable.
I’ve read somewhere that it’s an upfront loan from JP Morgan and gets repaid once the tv money starts to flow in. Still makes it completely unacceptable
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For me the tipping point is whether they stay in the PL and do the super league thing. If that's the case, then that is football squarely dead.
I think this is why the Premier League and 14 must say they will kick them out if they go ahead.
Allowing them the revenue stream from the Premier League and the new super league would create such a massive financial disparity between them and the rest of us that we would all be reduced to the status of feeder clubs for them. Other than legal or regulatory action starving them of Premier League payments is the only way I can see to get them to drop the idea.
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People need to aim at the broadcasters who are behind this because no way would JP Morgan advance that money unless things are in place already. If you go for the broadcasters and they think its a bad move, then what these clubs want won't even matter.
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I see the Glazers have made another £150m today due to the MU share price rise
Classy
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Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Villa have updated the David Bradley video with added recent footage, "They say you don't choose Aston Villa, it chooses you" and posted to twitter.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1384205436149063680?s=20
Get's me every time! 😭
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The clubs will probably all have thier own channels or ppv on apple or amazon.
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The clubs will probably all have thier own channels or ppv on apple or amazon.
they still need the medium to sell it, whether that's SKY/virgin, Amazon or Apple. Cancel the fuckers
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Four games each per year PPV, I think.
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I think it stinks, however if anyone thinks they are going to get kicked out / punished domestically and players punished at national level you are fooling yourself.
It’s still a capitalist industry and there’s not a thing UEFA or FIFA can do about it.
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MLB have their own PPV platform, i guess this type of deal will be an option.
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Big Sam lost his job for trying to take some money on the side.
Get rid of the Scum 6
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Nobody's going to forget this, even if they change their minds. It'll be unbearable being their supporters at matches.
I think they should be thrown out permanently tbh. They are clearly untrustworthy and treacherous. I don't want them anywhere near football.
However, if they were only to be demoted to Div 2 (old 4th div to be clear ) it might be the best way to get money into the lower divisions. Especially if gate receipts were equally divided both home and away or better still across the division so that even when Arsenal play Spurs the gate money is shared throughout the division.
They'd have no option but to sell their players because they couldn't afford them and they'd put in transfer requests the following day anyway. Sky/BT or whoever would probably bid for TV rights even. Change promotion and religation to 2 teams up 2 down and let them fight it out. It'd be un-missable to watch and it'd take 2 of them at least 6 years to get back to the Prem. I don't think teams in that division would mind not getting promotion for a few seasons because they could be raking it in. They'd also be able to leave a mark on them and maybe teach them a little humility. The longer they stay there the wealthier the "little" teams would get making it more difficult for them. It has a certain poetic justice feel to it I think.
Mind you. I can could see a lot of angry big six supporters trashing towns across the country.
So nah. Kick them out. Permanently!
Utv.
In fairness, this is not down to the fans of the "big six". They're as disgusting with the idea as everyone else.
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End of the day if they show it on Amazon and a couple of million Amazon customers cancel well...….Takes a lot less for companies to drop someone nowadays especially something toxic like this
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Meh, Amazon are the logical choice. They're extremely evil and they have the resources to wait out any storm.
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Nevilles rant was superb. I've had the radio on too and from Suffolk today and its pretty much universal condemnation.
The thing is though, the radio stations that are so against it are they going to give it air time, are they going to promote its matches and transfer news etc?
The commentators and pundits who are against it, are they going to commentate and be analysts etc on it?
Of fucking course they are.
Funny. I don't remember Neville being as vocal when Man United decided not to bother with the FA cup in favour of playing in Brazil......
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Nobody's going to forget this, even if they change their minds. It'll be unbearable being their supporters at matches.
I think they should be thrown out permanently tbh. They are clearly untrustworthy and treacherous. I don't want them anywhere near football.
However, if they were only to be demoted to Div 2 (old 4th div to be clear ) it might be the best way to get money into the lower divisions. Especially if gate receipts were equally divided both home and away or better still across the division so that even when Arsenal play Spurs the gate money is shared throughout the division.
They'd have no option but to sell their players because they couldn't afford them and they'd put in transfer requests the following day anyway. Sky/BT or whoever would probably bid for TV rights even. Change promotion and religation to 2 teams up 2 down and let them fight it out. It'd be un-missable to watch and it'd take 2 of them at least 6 years to get back to the Prem. I don't think teams in that division would mind not getting promotion for a few seasons because they could be raking it in. They'd also be able to leave a mark on them and maybe teach them a little humility. The longer they stay there the wealthier the "little" teams would get making it more difficult for them. It has a certain poetic justice feel to it I think.
Mind you. I can could see a lot of angry big six supporters trashing towns across the country.
So nah. Kick them out. Permanently!
Utv.
In fairness, this is not down to the fans of the "big six". They're as disgusting with the idea as everyone else.
I agree. I genuinely feel for them as I've posted earlier. It's not their fault at all. You only have to imagine how we'd feel if Villa were in on it. I'm glad Purslow said his piece this morning. I only hope they mean it.
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Meh, Amazon are the logical choice. They're extremely evil and they have the resources to wait out any storm.
Anyone could live without amazon. A fan European boycott of them just for hosting the ESL product would probably see it binned off sharpish, if people can be actually arsed obviously.
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Big Sam lost his job for trying to take some money on the side.
Get rid of the Scum 6
Totally different set if circumstances.
Personally I would love the 6 to crash and burn however they haven’t released this with a view to it not happening with consequences.
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First it was the 39th game that was muted. A concept born in the USA with the Globetrotters and then NFL to take the circus on the road for more money.
When that was scuppered they started saying they wanted more voting rights then they wanted changes to champions league. They keep getting knocked back when this was the aim all along so they have waited for a pandemic to drop this out now knowing fans are virtually silenced
By the fact that they cannot collectively group together. Could you imagine the abuse 40k + crowds would be handing out.
I really hope this time the wankers are punished as now they have showed thier hand there cannot be a way back for them
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Nobody's going to forget this, even if they change their minds. It'll be unbearable being their supporters at matches.
I think they should be thrown out permanently tbh. They are clearly untrustworthy and treacherous. I don't want them anywhere near football.
However, if they were only to be demoted to Div 2 (old 4th div to be clear ) it might be the best way to get money into the lower divisions. Especially if gate receipts were equally divided both home and away or better still across the division so that even when Arsenal play Spurs the gate money is shared throughout the division.
They'd have no option but to sell their players because they couldn't afford them and they'd put in transfer requests the following day anyway. Sky/BT or whoever would probably bid for TV rights even. Change promotion and religation to 2 teams up 2 down and let them fight it out. It'd be un-missable to watch and it'd take 2 of them at least 6 years to get back to the Prem. I don't think teams in that division would mind not getting promotion for a few seasons because they could be raking it in. They'd also be able to leave a mark on them and maybe teach them a little humility. The longer they stay there the wealthier the "little" teams would get making it more difficult for them. It has a certain poetic justice feel to it I think.
Mind you. I can could see a lot of angry big six supporters trashing towns across the country.
So nah. Kick them out. Permanently!
Utv.
In fairness, this is not down to the fans of the "big six". They're as disgusting with the idea as everyone else.
I agree. I genuinely feel for them as I've posted earlier. It's not their fault at all. You only have to imagine how we'd feel if Villa were in on it. I'm glad Purslow said his piece this morning. I only hope they mean it.
Call me cynical (the Lerner and Xia years have had an affect), but NSWE had an application form stuck in front of them, it would be "Where do we sign?" Purslow would be all for if it if he was still on the payroll at Anfield.
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What did the 12 think the reaction would be?
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Bad, that's why they announced it when no crowds are in the ground.
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Would they have expected governments to oppose it?
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I think it stinks, however if anyone thinks they are going to get kicked out / punished domestically and players punished at national level you are fooling yourself.
It’s still a capitalist industry and there’s not a thing UEFA or FIFA can do about it.
It's neo-liberalism at an extreme. Once again I think the bankers have overplayed their hand, I really don't believe for a minute they understand the depth and importance fans give to their teams and the game in general.
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You'd have thought so, governments like bandwagons, usually!
Not sure what the reaction has been elsewhere, can the Spanish government revoke Real Madrid's royal status and force them to be renamed?
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If I was UEFA first thing I'd do is on Friday kick Citeh, Madrid and Chelsea out of the the CL and give the remaining 3 slots in the semis to Dortmund, Bayern and Porto. Still have 2 high quality ties for TV and let's see how opposed to the new ESL those 3 are.
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The stadiums will be full, streaming / TV deals bursting with cash, commercial sales and corporate packages
At premium rates, they don’t care about the common fan.
We have had ample opportunities to stand our ground and it’s never happened.
It’s over.
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If I was UEFA first thing I'd do is on Friday kick Citeh, Madrid and Chelsea out of the the CL and give the remaining 3 slots in the semis to Dortmund, Bayern and Porto. Still have 2 high quality ties for TV and let's see how opposed to the new ESL those 3 are.
Cloud cuckoo land.
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Oh, bellend is back I see.
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If I was UEFA first thing I'd do is on Friday kick Citeh, Madrid and Chelsea out of the the CL and give the remaining 3 slots in the semis to Dortmund, Bayern and Porto. Still have 2 high quality ties for TV and let's see how opposed to the new ESL those 3 are.
Cloud cuckoo land.
Haven't you got a pretend pub to be running or something?
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Who’s this guy?
-
Juan Martinez/William Standing/a million other names after he's been banned again.
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William Standing, a permabanned poster who claims to support Villa but gets his kicks from trying to antagonise Villa fans all day.
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If I was UEFA first thing I'd do is on Friday kick Citeh, Madrid and Chelsea out of the the CL and give the remaining 3 slots in the semis to Dortmund, Bayern and Porto. Still have 2 high quality ties for TV and let's see how opposed to the new ESL those 3 are.
Was on the radio earlier that some Danish club official with links to UEFA had come out and said that could happen by Friday,
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If I was UEFA first thing I'd do is on Friday kick Citeh, Madrid and Chelsea out of the the CL and give the remaining 3 slots in the semis to Dortmund, Bayern and Porto. Still have 2 high quality ties for TV and let's see how opposed to the new ESL those 3 are.
Was on the radio earlier that some Danish club official with links to UEFA had come out and said that could happen by Friday,
And you could also win the lottery Wednesday night.
Talkshite spinning this tonight via Simon Jordon.
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The clubs will probably all have thier own channels or ppv on apple or amazon.
they still need the medium to sell it, whether that's SKY/virgin, Amazon or Apple. Cancel the fuckers
There was a discussion about it on Talksport earlier and they were saying that it would be possible for them to create their own platform in time for the new season.
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A brief look at Redcafe shows the strength of the resistance - i.e., not particularly strong. Many of them cannot wait.
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A brief look at Redcafe shows the strength of the resistance - i.e., not particularly strong. Many of them cannot wait.
Truth has been spoken.
It hurts but it’s the reality.
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A brief look at Redcafe shows the strength of the resistance - i.e., not particularly strong. Many of them cannot wait.
Truth has been spoken.
It hurts but it’s the reality.
Has there ever been a greater disparity between the defiance of the username and the almost hilarious pusillanimity of the user?
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What do you expect? More plastic floating around Redcafe and RAWK than your average river. ******, the fucking lot of them.
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If I was UEFA first thing I'd do is on Friday kick Citeh, Madrid and Chelsea out of the the CL and give the remaining 3 slots in the semis to Dortmund, Bayern and Porto. Still have 2 high quality ties for TV and let's see how opposed to the new ESL those 3 are.
Cloud cuckoo land.
No, the UEFA meeting's in Switzerland but I can understand how you got all confused with talk of cuckoos and clouds. ;D
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I don’t think the likes of Barcelona, Real & Juventus will back down. Given their debt they need the money to stand still.
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The clubs will probably all have thier own channels or ppv on apple or amazon.
they still need the medium to sell it, whether that's SKY/virgin, Amazon or Apple. Cancel the fuckers
There was a discussion about it on Talksport earlier and they were saying that it would be possible for them to create their own platform in time for the new season.
Their own stand-alone platform with thousands of servors if it was on the internet? Bit pricy to say the least. There's a good reason companies sell their channels via sky or through Amazon. I don't know how you'd go about selling a tv channel without SKY/Virgin allowing it as an option in their packages.
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I don’t think the likes of Barcelona, Real & Juventus will back down. Given their debt they need the money to stand still.
But without the English clubs there's nothing to break away into. The Premier League and the government have to show actual spine on this.
However, worth noting that we're asking a government to conserve a deeply loved national institution while it is also trying to build a tunnel under stonehenge.
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What do you expect? More plastic floating around Redcafe and RAWK than your average river. ******, the fucking lot of them.
100% agreed.
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A brief look at Redcafe shows the strength of the resistance - i.e., not particularly strong. Many of them cannot wait.
redcafe = full of daytrippers and foreign fans
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A brief look at Redcafe shows the strength of the resistance - i.e., not particularly strong. Many of them cannot wait.
redcafe = full of daytrippers and foreign fans
'Fans of the Future'.
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A brief look at Redcafe shows the strength of the resistance - i.e., not particularly strong. Many of them cannot wait.
That’s my worry. The more enlightened fan groups of the 6 clubs were quick to rally against it this morning, to their credit.
But a guy I work with, a Sussex born and bred 50 year old “die hard” Liverpool fan, who came to football 4 years ago, told me today that it “makes sense”. Apparently a lot better watching Liverpool play Real Madrid than Burnley, and doesn’t really understand what fans of other clubs are moaning about because this will allow all clubs to compete at their own level.
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heh. yeah future revenue flow as they're known to the ESL
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The ESL is happening, there won’t be consequences, this was the same uproar when the CL started, yesterday’s chip paper.
We will all get over it.
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A brief look at Redcafe shows the strength of the resistance - i.e., not particularly strong. Many of them cannot wait.
That’s my worry. The more enlightened fan groups of the 6 clubs were quick to rally against it this morning, to their credit.
But a guy I work with, a Sussex born and bred 50 year old “die hard” Liverpool fan, who came to football 4 years ago, told me today that it “makes sense”. Apparently a lot better watching Liverpool play Real Madrid than Burnley, and doesn’t really understand what fans of other clubs are moaning about because this will allow all clubs to compete at their own level.
More promisingly a YouGov poll suggests 4/5 fans in the UK are against it. But that's the highest it's going to be, so this right now is the last stand.
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What do you expect? More plastic floating around Redcafe and RAWK than your average river. ******, the fucking lot of them.
I would say a significant number of posters on those sites wouldn't know where their clubs grounds were if they were stood in front of them.
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Can only speak of the people I know who support the "big" 6. One a Liverpool fan is disgusted by it to the point he's near to giving up bothering. Chelsea fan likewise but a bit angrier. Don't have any arsenal/Tottenham/rag mates
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Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Villa have updated the David Bradley video with added recent footage, "They say you don't choose Aston Villa, it chooses you" and posted to twitter.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1384205436149063680?s=20
Get's me every time! 😭
The recent warm weather has brought the pollen out.
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What do you expect? More plastic floating around Redcafe and RAWK than your average river. ******, the fucking lot of them.
I would say a significant number of posters on those sites wouldn't know where their clubs grounds were if they were stood in front of them.
The problem is it's these people that they're targeting.
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We need to go full SJW on them. Cultural appropriation to make money is not a good look.
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Regardless of how this pans out...those 6 clubs have shit on the whole of English football. They have PROVED they believe they are bigger, better and more important than everyone else. They have proved they don’t give a fuck about everybody else, including their own supporters.
There must be repercussions for even starting this process.
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What do you expect? More plastic floating around Redcafe and RAWK than your average river. ******, the fucking lot of them.
I would say a significant number of posters on those sites wouldn't know where their clubs grounds were if they were stood in front of them.
The problem is it's these people that they're targeting.
Yes. This has proved that the owners of these top clubs couldn't give a shit about the fans who pay their hard earned cash to support the club as long as they're hoards of "supporters" in the US and China keep happily paying their subscription to watch games.
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Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Villa have updated the David Bradley video with added recent footage, "They say you don't choose Aston Villa, it chooses you" and posted to twitter.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1384205436149063680?s=20
Get's me every time! 😭
The recent warm weather has brought the pollen out.
Half a million views tonight. Wow
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I wonder what our owners make of it, having invested heavily, I find it worrying, I think if the six are expelled from the EPL overtures would be made to the Old Firm, and a possible seting up of a team from Dublin, you have to fight fire with fire. unfortunately this would have repercussions in Scotland and Ireland, there is away forward without these 6
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It's time to go down the German route of club ownership. It would sort this shit out.
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Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Villa have updated the David Bradley video with added recent footage, "They say you don't choose Aston Villa, it chooses you" and posted to twitter.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1384205436149063680?s=20
Get's me every time! 😭
The recent warm weather has brought the pollen out.
Half a million views tonight. Wow
And 10 of them were me
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I wonder what our owners make of it, having invested heavily, I find it worrying, I think if the six are expelled from the EPL overtures would be made to the Old Firm, and a possible seting up of a team from Dublin, you have to fight fire with fire. unfortunately this would have repercussions in Scotland and Ireland, there is away forward without these 6
Water is better, I've heard. Well, unless it's a petrol fire.
No way should we be parachuting Scottish or Irish teams into the league. The top flight has existed without these six scab teams before and there is no reason why it can't do so again.
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So what exactly was the criteria for inclusion in this fabulous league? Could it be levels of debt they are all in?
Big city
Big stadium
Owners of dubious morality who would agree to be part of it
Yes, and large viewing figures for their games shown in "emerging markets".
J.P. Morgan are largely funding this, and you can be sure they have run the numbers.
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Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Villa have updated the David Bradley video with added recent footage, "They say you don't choose Aston Villa, it chooses you" and posted to twitter.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1384205436149063680?s=20
Get's me every time! 😭
The recent warm weather has brought the pollen out.
Half a million views tonight. Wow
Interesting, half a million people online have viewed some Aston Villa content, future fans, or legacy fans?
The super duper league won't care, as long as fans are happy to watch and pay online. This is going to be the future of football.
The legacy fans will keep going, because that's what they enjoy, the future fans will be brought in online. Some will do both, some will do neither.
We are all consumers, we don't own our clubs, billionaires do.
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Why aren't Wolves being invited in is the real scandal.....
Very good!
The weird fact is that Celtic and Rangers are more likely to get an invite.
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I wonder what our owners make of it, having invested heavily, I find it worrying, I think if the six are expelled from the EPL overtures would be made to the Old Firm, and a possible seting up of a team from Dublin, you have to fight fire with fire. unfortunately this would have repercussions in Scotland and Ireland, there is away forward without these 6
Not going to happen is it. you can't parachute in the old firm or an irish team unless they started at the bottom. It would annoy the feck out of Cardiff and Swansea and the entire Welsh nation for one
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A brief look at Redcafe shows the strength of the resistance - i.e., not particularly strong. Many of them cannot wait.
redcafe = full of daytrippers and foreign fans
'Fans of the Future'.
Well just had a look at their site, in a poll only 5% want the ESL.
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I had a WhatsApp discussion with colleagues earlier including a Man U, Spurs and Arsenal fan. They all agreed it was a terrible thing but "it's going to happen anyway" and then started speculating what platform it will be on and whether it will cost more than what Sky and BT do. Sadly I think this will be how it goes with a lot of the armchair fan brigade. Platitudes about how awful it is but what can you do?
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The ESL is happening, there won’t be consequences, this was the same uproar when the CL started, yesterday’s chip paper.
We will all get over it.
No it’s quite fundamentally different.
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Jimmy Milner being pretty clear he doesn’t like the idea.
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The ESL is happening, there won’t be consequences, this was the same uproar when the CL started, yesterday’s chip paper.
We will all get over it.
To be truthful I am more worried about getting punters in to the bar/restaurant I own.
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Not sure what the reaction has been elsewhere, can the Spanish government revoke Real Madrid's royal status and force them to be renamed?
Riyal Madrid
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Very good.
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Is this a perfect time to impose a 'worldwide cap' on players wages and then the big clubs might not resort to these desperate measures?
Players wages have got completely out of hand and need to be more realistic. GBP30,000 a week is more than enough for anyone to have a luxurious life.
This is a good time to bring football back into the real world and might even reduce the fans admission fee.
Let the 12 greedy clubs make profits through reduced expenses rather than increased TV revenue.
Just a thought.
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Disappointed with Klopp's post match interview. Having a go at Gary Neville and Leeds wearing anti-Super League t-shirt pre-game, saying what good guys the owners are.
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Is this a perfect time to impose a 'worldwide cap' on players wages and then the big clubs might not resort to these desperate measures?
Players wages have got completely out of hand and need to be more realistic. GBP30,000 a week is more than enough for anyone to have a luxurious life.
This is a good time to bring football back into the real world and might even reduce the fans admission fee.
Let the 12 greedy clubs make profits through reduced expenses rather than increased TV revenue.
Just a thought.
impossible
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Yes, BBC Sport suggested he had strongly opposed the league, he had done nothing of the sort.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1303307073191583746/1pSwIce__normal.jpg)Matt Law@Matt_Law_DT·42mI'm told Chelsea and Manchester City were informed the Super League was going ahead last week and were basically given the option of get on board or risk being left behind. They were not drivers of the plan...
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Is this a perfect time to impose a 'worldwide cap' on players wages and then the big clubs might not resort to these desperate measures?
Players wages have got completely out of hand and need to be more realistic. GBP30,000 a week is more than enough for anyone to have a luxurious life.
This is a good time to bring football back into the real world and might even reduce the fans admission fee.
Let the 12 greedy clubs make profits through reduced expenses rather than increased TV revenue.
Just a thought.
impossible
Impossible and unfair, to be honest. We all think footballers are paid too much (at the top level, at least), but I don't see why they should bear the brunt of this backlash. They've done nothing wrong, the owners have.
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Are we now officially one of 'The Gang Of Fourteen'?
Worst tribute ever! And I've seen ''...from The Jam"*
*I haven't but if that doesn't get Percy posting, I don't know what will...
The saving grace of any Jam tribute act, no matter how bad, is that out of every tribute act in the world, they’ve got the best songs. Apart from maybe The Style Councillors.
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Who cares what Bingo has to say ,i certainly don't he spouts a lot of bollocks most of the time
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1303307073191583746/1pSwIce__normal.jpg)Matt Law@Matt_Law_DT·42mI'm told Chelsea and Manchester City were informed the Super League was going ahead last week and were basically given the option of get on board or risk being left behind. They were not drivers of the plan...
hmmm. not surprised. This seems to have American hands all over it
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The main instigators seem to be Man U, Real Madrid and Juventus. So one third American, for what it's worth.
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So what exactly was the criteria for inclusion in this fabulous league? Could it be levels of debt they are all in?
Big city
Big stadium
Owners of dubious morality who would agree to be part of it
Yes, and large viewing figures for their games shown in "emerging markets".
J.P. Morgan are largely funding this, and you can be sure they have run the numbers.
JP Morgan don't always get it right. They had to pay a record 13 billion dollar settlement with regulators in 2013 over their mortgage operations leading up to the financial crisis. If they've misjudged the mood and the repercussions it could go badly wrong for them too. I bet the hostility wasn't factored into the business model. They probably thought everyone would think it's a great idea.
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I think it stinks, however if anyone thinks they are going to get kicked out / punished domestically and players punished at national level you are fooling yourself.
It’s still a capitalist industry and there’s not a thing UEFA or FIFA can do about it.
It's neo-liberalism at an extreme. Once again I think the bankers have overplayed their hand, I really don't believe for a minute they understand the depth and importance fans give to their teams and the game in general.
The bankers have never met a real football fan. And I imagine the likes of Woodward and Henry have done their level best to avoid them. They have taken their cues from some presentation of Asia and the Middle East and Asia where everyone is a fan of Man U, Chelsea etc. What they also likely believed is that fans in England local to those clubs would all have jumped for joy at this. But even if all of them didn’t well fuck them. And as for the grassroots of the game...
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Yes, BBC Sport suggested he had strongly opposed the league, he had done nothing of the sort.
He behaved like a totally evasive ****** during his pre-match interview.
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So what exactly was the criteria for inclusion in this fabulous league? Could it be levels of debt they are all in?
Big city
Big stadium
Owners of dubious morality who would agree to be part of it
Yes, and large viewing figures for their games shown in "emerging markets".
J.P. Morgan are largely funding this, and you can be sure they have run the numbers.
JP Morgan don't always get it right. They had to pay a record 13 billion dollar settlement with regulators in 2013 over their mortgage operations leading up to the financial crisis. If they've misjudged the mood and the repercussions it could go badly wrong for them too. I bet the hostility wasn't factored into the business model. They probably thought everyone would think it's a great idea.
Yep, some suits in NY haven’t a clue what the game means here.
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Yes, BBC Sport suggested he had strongly opposed the league, he had done nothing of the sort.
He behaved like a totally evasive ****** during his pre-match interview.
I’m not sure he did. I thought he probably went as far as he could at this time.
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There is a lot of liquidity out there looking for yield and JP Morgan is the conduit not the principal.
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The main instigators seem to be Man U, Real Madrid and Juventus. So one third American, for what it's worth.
I can't imagine Juventus have much clout in the scheme of things. You need the big earners to pull this off and get the backers
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The main instigators seem to be Man U, Real Madrid and Juventus. So one third American, for what it's worth.
From what I’ve read it’s Real Madrid and Barcelona who have been driving this out of pure desperation. Mired in debt, with Barca unable to pay staff and player’s wages and outstanding transfer fees
They see this as the only way to avoid the financial day of reckoning.
A nice upfront loan of £300m from JP Morgan would go someway to pay off the £500m Barca have to repay to the banks this year alone
Barca’s total debt was about £1b in December and this will only have increased with no fans in the stadium
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Yes, BBC Sport suggested he had strongly opposed the league, he had done nothing of the sort.
He behaved like a totally evasive ****** during his pre-match interview.
I’m not sure he did. I thought he probably went as far as he could at this time.
I am struggling to identify anything Bingo said against the proposals.
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There is a lot of liquidity out there looking for yield and JP Morgan is the conduit not the principal.
A fool and his money.
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Andrea Agnelli, Juventus chairman, is the main ****** in chief along with the Glazers.
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The main instigators seem to be Man U, Real Madrid and Juventus. So one third American, for what it's worth.
From what I’ve read it’s Real Madrid and Barcelona who have been driving this out of pure desperation. Mired in debt, with Barca unable to pay staff and player’s wages and outstanding transfer fees
They see this as the only way to avoid the financial day of reckoning.
A nice upfront loan of £300m from JP Morgan would go someway to pay off the £500m Barca have to repay to the banks this year alone
Barca’s total debt was about £1b in December and this will only have increased with no fans in the stadium
That's certainly a factor, and I don't imagine Barcelona needed much persuasion. But Perez, Agnelli and Glazier seem to have been the main players pushing for it, and have been named as President and two Vice Presidents of the league.
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These 6 clubs need the Premier League & the Premier League need these 6 clubs. Neither will flourish without the other.
There will be some threats, bargaining etc & eventually the Champions League will be modified as a compromise. Individual clubs will get more income from TV rights. But competition must at least be seen to exist, even if it doesn’t.
Listening to Oliver Dowden in parliament today, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything less sincere or unconvincing in my life. Watching a Tory minister talk lovingly about the cultural values of football was sickening.
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The main instigators seem to be Man U, Real Madrid and Juventus. So one third American, for what it's worth.
From what I’ve read it’s Real Madrid and Barcelona who have been driving this out of pure desperation. Mired in debt, with Barca unable to pay staff and player’s wages and outstanding transfer fees
They see this as the only way to avoid the financial day of reckoning.
A nice upfront loan of £300m from JP Morgan would go someway to pay off the £500m Barca have to repay to the banks this year alone
Barca’s total debt was about £1b in December and this will only have increased with no fans in the stadium
That's certainly a factor, and I don't imagine Barcelona needed much persuasion, but Perez, Agnelli and Glazier seem to have been the main players pushing for it, and have been named as President and two Vice Presidents of the league.
Yes I think RM (ie Perez) has been pushing this for years
Didn’t he change the club constitution to enable him to remain president for life?
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There won't be compromise now. The only options are expulsion or pathetic capitulation.
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Andrea Agnelli, Juventus chairman, is the main ****** in chief along with the Glazers.
If you look at the revenue earners they've basically got the top 8, the glaring omissions are Munich and PSG. Juventus are 11th with the other Italian clubs lower.
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The main instigators seem to be Man U, Real Madrid and Juventus. So one third American, for what it's worth.
From what I’ve read it’s Real Madrid and Barcelona who have been driving this out of pure desperation. Mired in debt, with Barca unable to pay staff and player’s wages and outstanding transfer fees
They see this as the only way to avoid the financial day of reckoning.
A nice upfront loan of £300m from JP Morgan would go someway to pay off the £500m Barca have to repay to the banks this year alone
Barca’s total debt was about £1b in December and this will only have increased with no fans in the stadium
That's certainly a factor, and I don't imagine Barcelona needed much persuasion, but Perez, Agnelli and Glazier seem to have been the main players pushing for it, and have been named as President and two Vice Presidents of the league.
Yes I think RM (ie Perez) has been pushing this for years
Didn’t he change the club constitution to enable him to remain president for life?
Ha! I've not heard that. I wonder if he ever claimed to have invented el patada de bicicleta?
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JP Morgan don't always get it right.
The man himself often did e.g. "Nothing so undermines your financial judgement as the sight of your neighbour getting rich" or perhaps more aptly “When a man abuses his power, he loses it.”
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(If that doesn't make sense blame Google Translate. And Starmer).
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The main instigators seem to be Man U, Real Madrid and Juventus. So one third American, for what it's worth.
From what I’ve read it’s Real Madrid and Barcelona who have been driving this out of pure desperation. Mired in debt, with Barca unable to pay staff and player’s wages and outstanding transfer fees
They see this as the only way to avoid the financial day of reckoning.
A nice upfront loan of £300m from JP Morgan would go someway to pay off the £500m Barca have to repay to the banks this year alone
Barca’s total debt was about £1b in December and this will only have increased with no fans in the stadium
That's certainly a factor, and I don't imagine Barcelona needed much persuasion, but Perez, Agnelli and Glazier seem to have been the main players pushing for it, and have been named as President and two Vice Presidents of the league.
Yes I think RM (ie Perez) has been pushing this for years
Didn’t he change the club constitution to enable him to remain president for life?
Ha! I've not heard that. I wonder if he ever claimed to have invented el patada de bicicleta?
Excellent!!
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I'm looking forward to see if Spurs can get a manager, any manager. They'll have to have some neck to take it right now.
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Andrea Agnelli, Juventus chairman, is the main ****** in chief along with the Glazers.
and Fenway
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I'm looking forward to see if Spurs can get a manager, any manager. They'll have to have some neck to take it right now.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/shadygiz/twitcher.gif)
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Agnelli seems like a real bellend.
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Yes, BBC Sport suggested he had strongly opposed the league, he had done nothing of the sort.
He behaved like a totally evasive ****** during his pre-match interview.
I’m not sure he did. I thought he probably went as far as he could at this time.
Yes, he was in defensive mode as his club is under attack. I fully expect him to resign soon if things don't change.
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There is a lot of liquidity out there looking for yield and JP Morgan is the conduit not the principal.
True, but when the clubs have taken JPM's money and paid off only some their massive debts, and the ESL goes tits up because the player's they really really need to make it work won't touch it because of the restrictions on international status, what will they have left? A dozen or so pariah clubs some of which will still be massively in debt and players they can afford but no one wants to pay to watch. That's my hope anyway.
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My guess is their hoped for targets aren't coming now. The likes of Bayern, PSG and co will be under immense pressure and probably inducements by UEFA to stay put now. They may well end up with the old firm and a few other B-listers to make up the numbers
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Celtic and "Rangers" have always been self-interested wankers, hence their desperation to force their B teams into the league system despite almost universal opposition from the member clubs.
I expect they'll sign up when the ESL have given up trying to recruit the Bayerns of this world.
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Celtic and "Rangers" have always been self-interested wankers, hence their desperation to force their B teams into the league system despite almost universal opposition from the member clubs.
I expect they'll sign up when the ESL have given up trying to recruit the Bayerns of this world.
That rings true.
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Yep its beginning to look a bit half-arsed to me. Maybe they thought they bump Bayern/PSG into joining like they did with the likes of Chelsea and Man City (allegedly.) 12 clubs with another 3 unknown permanent members who are probably having 2nd thoughts about now, plus 5 other ever-changing clubs taking part in a parallel universe where FIFA/UEFA let them...…
I'd be a bit twitchy tonight if I was the ESL
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I'd be a bit twitchy tonight if I was the ESL
I really fucking hope so.
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Bingo : https://twitter.com/sporf/status/1384259697423708161?s=21
Red Nev : https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1384261467470327819
;D
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I wonder what our owners make of it, having invested heavily, I find it worrying, I think if the six are expelled from the EPL overtures would be made to the Old Firm, and a possible seting up of a team from Dublin, you have to fight fire with fire. unfortunately this would have repercussions in Scotland and Ireland, there is away forward without these 6
Christ, not another Wimbledon in Dublin effort with the likes of Eamon Dunphy leading the charge again!
It's a strange time in football across Europe with the Dutch and Belgian leagues likely to merge. The Old Firm might well be encouraged to come down for a trial period but in the midst of a likely imminent Scottish independence referendum that's going to be a hard sell.
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There won't be compromise now. The only options are expulsion or pathetic capitulation.
You might be right. There's really no way for Ceferin to walk back some of those quotes:
Super League players face World Cup and Euros ban, warns furious Uefa chief
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/19/super-league-players-face-world-cup-and-euros-ban-warns-furious-uefa-chief?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
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Why is Billy McNeill wading in on all this?
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I only saw his pre match interview and thought Bingo appeared to be hedging his bets. He also questioned the banners placed at Anfield stating that the ESL plan had nothing to do with the team. The protest was clearly aimed at the club and not the players so he's either being thick or disingenuous.
If you start fighting with those opposing the ESL over perceived slights then people will start to draw their own conclusions...
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BBC have a good view this morning
These wankers are ready for the shitstorm and will let it blow through, FIFA led by Infantino also have not been as Strident as UEFA in there condemnation.
You can smell compromise which is probably what they have planned for, extra donations to lower tiers etc.
Best bet is the fans and Govt stopping it. Football administration is fixated on the Mana from the God of Television.
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Carraghers saying the fans can make a difference. I hope fans keep on protesting, I hope there’s hundreds outside Villa Park on Wednesday and no matter what Klopp says, I hope it does make Man City’s players and manager feel uncomfortable.
I thought Klopps interview was really weak and full of deflection as was Tuchels earlier in the day. Of course the manager and players haven’t made these decisions, but they have arguably the biggest role to play in all this now.
We can talk about fan power, but ultimately the pandemic has given the green light for this, they, the owners who want this, have seen TV subscriptions go up, their ‘product’ as they see it not be too adversely affected, by us not being there in the grounds, fake noise replacing us, and have decided that it doesn’t matter if the TV subscription comes from Birmingham or Beijing. I said earlier I hope the fans protest and I do, but ultimately the owners won’t care about 50 odd Leeds fans, or even a 1000 fans somewhere else, but it might have an impact in the pawns in all this.
Players and managers always turn a blind eye, to decisions in the game, ‘we just want to play football and don’t think about what goes on in the boardroom’ is a classic quote, often wheeled out, this was the equivalent of what Klopp and Tuchel did yesterday.
My hope is that multi millionaire players and managers, know they have enough money and want to be involved in competitive sport and international football. My fear is that it’s never enough money and they’ll be bought off with the promise of more riches. Tuchels interview about coming to Chelsea to coach in the best competitions sets alarm bells ringing for me. With the best will in the world for all the 35 Year old James Milner saying he doesn’t like it, it needs the Salah’s and Maines and De Bruynes to come out and say it’s not for them, as much as we don’t like it, they are far harder to replace in this model than us. Until the end of the season I don’t think the players or managers at these clubs should be allowed to get away with washing their hands of responsibility in all this. The Spurs vacancy is also interesting and will be telling as to whether they get their first choice considering where they are going.
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I wonder what our owners make of it, having invested heavily, I find it worrying, I think if the six are expelled from the EPL overtures would be made to the Old Firm, and a possible seting up of a team from Dublin, you have to fight fire with fire. unfortunately this would have repercussions in Scotland and Ireland, there is away forward without these 6
Christ, not another Wimbledon in Dublin effort with the likes of Eamon Dunphy leading the charge again!
It's a strange time in football across Europe with the Dutch and Belgian leagues likely to merge. The Old Firm might well be encouraged to come down for a trial period but in the midst of a likely imminent Scottish independence referendum that's going to be a hard sell.
Post-Brexit I'm not sure how well a Dublin team would work out - they'd be under totally different rules for signing players for a start.
With Scottish teams, I'm not totally against the idea, but I'm also not really in favour of it either. Mostly because I think a stronger move would be to fast track supporter-owned clubs (eg FC United of Manchester) to the Premier League. Supporters of those teams then have a clear choice between the club 'in spirit' and the ESL team. Not all will switch clubs, and many will undoubtedly support both, but it massively dilutes what power someone holds when they buy a football club.
Combined with the removal of the city/area name (via council powers) it means if some cockwomble like Mike Ashley wants to join them, he can extract the material assets and employees, but the football club itself is not his to buy. That, and the "legacy supporters" remain where they were. Ok, it's highly likely those clubs will go tumbling down in to the Championship or lower as they'll have no players, stadium, manager etc - but at least you've given the supporters a fair chance, and to boot you've sabotaged the ESL.
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IF a compromise is reached, and this is my worry, from what I heard yesterday that the 14 need the 6 because of TV revenues etc. and the 6 are allowed to form their own ESL, then any top players currently at the 14 clubs will want to move to a club that is in the ESL.
We just would not be able to compete - and if that is the case then how quickly will it be before our current owners decide to not invest so heavily in our club
It would be interesting if the 14 clubs contacted the fans of these clubs to ask them their opinion of what they should do?
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Bamford got it right last night. The hypocrisy is eye watering from UEFA.
“It’s amazing the amount of uproar when somebody’s pocket is being hurt. It’s a shame that this doesn’t happen with issues like racism.”
Having said that, there’s room for a concerted effort against both in the game.
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The timing of this by the soulless and spineless owners sums up their utter disrespect of supporters and employees of all types.
Nobody can protest on matchdays in their thousands up and down the country.
Unfortunately they dismiss this out of hand which is a huge mistake on their part.
One pathetic statement and lets leave it to bemused players and staff to take all the questions?
Unbelievable arrogance.
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Perez seems to be full of all the hubris you'd expect from a man who fronts a facicst Club. Essentially saying he's saving football and UEFA won't do anything.
I think he's in for a shock when his side is booted out the CL and La Liga on Friday and in the coming weeks
One telling comment about Ramos, saying they'll look at his contract at the end of the season, but Madrid "are in a bad way financially, nobody is putting money in". Skint pricks.
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Reading between the lines its seems the ESL were flushed out before they were ready to launch. I'm not sure who they're expecting to fill the empty places but it won't be the German/French clubs from what i can see. Even the name ESL sounds a bit naff when half your teams are from the UK and 9 of your line up are from 4 cities ;D
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No 10 looking to coridinate for a joint European governmental response to these Super Scabs.
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Bamford got it right last night. The hypocrisy is eye watering from UEFA.
“It’s amazing the amount of uproar when somebody’s pocket is being hurt. It’s a shame that this doesn’t happen with issues like racism.”
Having said that, there’s room for a concerted effort against both in the game.
Oh fuck.
You know it’s bad when a ****** like Bamford is spoken about positively.
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Add the skintness of Madrid, the “£1 billion” spent by Levy on stadium spuds, the extreme player wages paid by man citeh, the other manchester club, Liverpool and the arse and you can see their desperation. Don’t forget arse laid off their mascot (as well as a lot of other staff) last year “due to the pandemic and we are looking at a lot of problems coming home to roost.
The 30% they were getting out of the change in European football won’t cover the costs.
My bet is that this is about tv rights in Asia. The clubs want those outright, uefa/fifa/pl won’t give them up.
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Bamford got it right last night. The hypocrisy is eye watering from UEFA.
“It’s amazing the amount of uproar when somebody’s pocket is being hurt. It’s a shame that this doesn’t happen with issues like racism.”
Having said that, there’s room for a concerted effort against both in the game.
Oh fuck.
You know it’s bad when a ****** like Bamford is spoken about positively.
Yes, sorry. It seemed a better option than Cole or Richards on the topic. I feel very very ill.
It’s pretty amazing that UEFA/FIFA/PL/Johnson are being lauded as bastions against a greedy few.
Strange times indeed.
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Reading between the lines its seems the ESL were flushed out before they were ready to launch. I'm not sure who they're expecting to fill the empty places but it won't be the German/French clubs from what i can see. Even the name ESL sounds a bit naff when half your teams are from the UK and 9 of your line up are from 4 cities ;D
I would argue that they always planned to announce before UEFA announced the new format as otherwise the arguments for the ESL would look a bit dumb if the new format is almost the same. However they expected the full contingent of 15 to already be in place and that didn't happen.
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Reading between the lines its seems the ESL were flushed out before they were ready to launch. I'm not sure who they're expecting to fill the empty places but it won't be the German/French clubs from what i can see. Even the name ESL sounds a bit naff when half your teams are from the UK and 9 of your line up are from 4 cities ;D
I would argue that they always planned to announce before UEFA announced the new format as otherwise the arguments for the ESL would look a bit dumb if the new format is almost the same. However they expected the full contingent of 15 to already be in place and that didn't happen.
yeah I was reading those quotes from the UEFA bod about his conversations with Agnelli who switched his phone off after being called out. Sounds like they panicked when the cat got out the bag.
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My bet is that this is about tv rights in Asia. The clubs want those outright, uefa/fifa/pl won’t give them up.
Well being outside of UEFA, Fifa, PL and they can also set their own rules on squad sizes, foreign players, and any other rule they want to implement to allow them to field all the "top" players in these "top" teams. Whole swathes of subs (remember the big teams wanting that this season), quarters instead of halves or at least added Advert refreshment breaks on 22 and 67 minutes. Other things that will enable more advertisers to pay.
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My bet is that this is about tv rights in Asia. The clubs want those outright, uefa/fifa/pl won’t give them up.
Well being outside of UEFA, Fifa, PL and they can also set their own rules on squad sizes, foreign players, and any other rule they want to implement to allow them to field all the "top" players in these "top" teams. Whole swathes of subs (remember the big teams wanting that this season), quarters instead of halves or at least added Advert refreshment breaks on 22 and 67 minutes. Other things that will enable more advertisers to pay.
yeah I thought the same. They've tried to Americanise it over there but they couldn't do it without UEFA/FIFA on board. Now they can do what they like because they can have the big clubs doing it with no interference.
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Add the skintness of Madrid, the “£1 billion” spent by Levy on stadium spuds, the extreme player wages paid by man citeh, the other manchester club, Liverpool and the arse and you can see their desperation. Don’t forget arse laid off their mascot (as well as a lot of other staff) last year “due to the pandemic and we are looking at a lot of problems coming home to roost.
The 30% they were getting out of the change in European football won’t cover the costs.
My bet is that this is about tv rights in Asia. The clubs want those outright, uefa/fifa/pl won’t give them up.
Just the same as the problems on the High street the Pandemic, has accelerated the failure of marginal business models.
These Zombie clubs are highly leveraged in financial trouble and desperate.
Its not just Asia TV rights they need want the US as well as Advertising revenue.
It will be interesting to see if those clubs that do not have the same Financial desperation continue to stick with this.
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There is a lot of liquidity out there looking for yield and JP Morgan is the conduit not the principal.
True, but when the clubs have taken JPM's money and paid off only some their massive debts, and the ESL goes tits up because the player's they really really need to make it work won't touch it because of the restrictions on international status, what will they have left? A dozen or so pariah clubs some of which will still be massively in debt and players they can afford but no one wants to pay to watch. That's my hope anyway.
That’s my hope too, but I think it’s unlikely. I think most likely this will go ahead, and the teams involved will field B teams in their domestic league and not really care how they do because it doesn’t matter. That in turn will reduce the attractiveness and tv rights of the premier league, reducing incomes and making it much less attractive for our owners or other others to invest.
The closed shop / guaranteed entry model kills everything beneath it.
I think the only hope is doing something dramatic, soon, while anger and emotions are running high, and while there is some support from fans of ESL clubs. Something like kicking them out of the premier league next year. Yes this is unlikely and yes this would result in massive financial issues, but those issues are coming anyway and better to try to resist than accept a lingering death.
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There's precedent for kicking your best club out of the league - the SPL did it not long ago and I'm not sure they're any worse for it.
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Exactly. Even toothless Serie A punted Juventus for a year. The long term damage to the game of allowing a two tier league would far outweigh the short term damage of a potential loss of income from the removal of the Scab Six.
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My bet is that this is about tv rights in Asia. The clubs want those outright, uefa/fifa/pl won’t give them up.
Well being outside of UEFA, Fifa, PL and they can also set their own rules on squad sizes, foreign players, and any other rule they want to implement to allow them to field all the "top" players in these "top" teams. Whole swathes of subs (remember the big teams wanting that this season), quarters instead of halves or at least added Advert refreshment breaks on 22 and 67 minutes. Other things that will enable more advertisers to pay.
Yup.
"Follow the money" is a useful way to unravel what's going on.
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This is where we see the true mettle of players.
Will many hand in transfer requests or just become even more mercenary?
Of course, there must be many who see it is as “just a job”, which is fair enough. But there must be many who also love the game and traditions.
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That interview with Florentino Perez was characteristically illuminating. 'Football is about the big clubs playing each other', 'how dare Ceferin insult the president of a great club like Juventus', all this shit. Just a reminder of the absolute, illimitable, Francoist entitlement behind all this.
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From the fans' perspective, it's the lack of breadth in their club-list that will kill ESL, amongst other things (choking off the money will play the biggest part, from the owners perspective).
3 countries involved; no German clubs; the absence of Dutch, French and Portuguese; a clear snub to big names of yesteryear; no former-eastern bloc clubs. This is the Brexit of Football!
It's hardly inclusive and lacks no glamour! There's no gravitas, grandeur ... style! Where's the romanticism, the stories, the magic?!!
As others have said, it's been designed by some marketing hack in Madison Gardens, on the back of their knowledge of American Sport.
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That interview with Florentino Perez was characteristically illuminating. 'Football is about the big clubs playing each other', 'how dare Ceferin insult the president of a great club like Juventus', all this shit. Just a reminder of the absolute, illimitable, Francoist entitlement behind all this.
Bear in mind Perez also said "The young people want this?"
What people?
How young?
Where are they?
Bollocks.
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He's also said that they should consider shorter matches as "that's what young fans want". He's an absolute bellend.
I remember when we looked like we were in financial shit and one of the self-appointed elite offered us £2 million plus Josh Onomah for a player now ranked at £100 million+.
When they can't manage their finances the whole of football has to bend to their will.
What an absolute load of bollocks. Here's an idea Real and Barcelona. If you're skint... sell some of your players. Don't spell the whole of a pandemic flirting with Haaland then plead poverty. Sell some players, run your club on a sustainable basis and, maybe, accept a few years of qualifying for Europe and mid-table mediocrity at home.
See how many fans in Singapore and San Francisco want to watch you when you're not winning five-nil every game you massive parisitic boils on the arse of humanity.
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It's always hilarious when these people try and act like football has a popularity problem. It's insane.
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This is where we see the true mettle of players.
Will many hand in transfer requests or just become even more mercenary?
Of course, there must be many who see it is as “just a job”, which is fair enough. But there must be many who also love the game and traditions.
Well they'd be mad to do it now. Who says they'd even be allowed to leave by their clubs or be allowed to re-join a UEFA affiliated club. They'll see what happens over the next few months but i'd imagine losing your international career or being thrown out of the CL a match away from a final won't go down too well
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I would be amazed if any footballer at one of the ESL clubs decided they did not want to play for that team anymore - not one will give up £100k + a week (not a chance, and I don't blame them)
Darren Bent was asked the same question this morning, he said he would stay at the club.
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He's also said that they should consider shorter matches as "that's what young fans want". He's an absolute bellend.
I remember when we looked like we were in financial shit and one of the self-appointed elite offered us £2 million plus Josh Onomah for a player now ranked at £100 million+.
When they can't manage their finances the whole of football has to bend to their will.
What an absolute load of bollocks. Here's an idea Real and Barcelona. If you're skint... sell some of your players. Don't spell the whole of a pandemic flirting with Haaland then plead poverty. Sell some players, run your club on a sustainable basis and, maybe, accept a few years of qualifying for Europe and mid-table mediocrity at home.
See how many fans in Singapore and San Francisco want to watch you when you're not winning five-nil every game you massive parisitic boils on the arse of humanity.
Also, Atleti joining shows the insane hypocrisy of this. Are Atleti in if this is launched before Simeone showed up? The owner's father relegated them two decades ago! But Atletico will always have a Gil to die on, so in they go, with Sevilla and Valencia and the Basque clubs left behind because of an accident of timing. Despicable.
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None of the players will quit unless and until it looks like they won't be allowed to compete in the Premier League or for their national teams.
They'll just sit it out and see what happens - they'd be mental to do anything else. In isolation, a player has zero weight in this discussion. They only have power if the PFA lead it.
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I would be amazed if any footballer at one of the ESL clubs decided they did not want to play for that team anymore - not one will give up £100k + a week (not a chance, and I don't blame them)
Darren Bent was asked the same question this morning, he said he would stay at the club.
Depends who you are I think. The top players tend to want to progress their careers and the money comes along with that naturally. If Grealish wanted to join madrid/City/whoever before all this, you'd realise he was getting a nice payrise but you couldn't argue with the logic he'd probably be more likely to win trophies or become a regular for England. Now he's probably got a bigger chance of starting for England with us with half the rest of the squad ineligible,
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He's also said that they should consider shorter matches as "that's what young fans want". He's an absolute bellend.
I can also see them having a no draws policy or sudden death OT like in American Rugby / Rounders / Netball so they there is always winners.
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I am instinctively pro these six being kicked out of the Premier League. However, they're unlikely to just no longer play domestic football, and have no doubt thought through this scenario.
The next move from their position is surely to set up their own domestic league based on the six clubs, probably trying to pad the numbers with the Old Firm, and/or trying to bribe a couple of the PL sides with the most instagram followers to join a closed no relegation league, with the chance to be one of the invited clubs to their super duper league. With 10ish clubs they could have more and more 'big' games, control the fixture list to avoid clashes with their european league, and play domestic games abroad. They'll also be able to cut up the TV rights as they want.
The gamble they're taking is that consumers (sadly not supporters) have an appetite for this ahead of the Premier League/Champions League product.
As an aside, does this make Champions League qualification for us a very real possibility this season? As absurd as that is...
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Jack is an odd case though, he's emotionally driven and I don't doubt that he'd be utterly torn about losing an international career for a Super League contract.
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Apparently UEFA negotiating a £5.2b deal with Centricus Asset Management, a London based hedge fund
Currently UEFA doles out £3b each year
So I think I see where this is heading
UEFA does the deal based on the new “improved” CL format that was agreed yesterday. The “dirty dozen” were happy with the format but not the allocation of dosh.
So, UEFA agrees that the extra £2.2b should go mainly to the 12 to pretty much compensate for the money they would have got from JP Morgan (which was only as upfront loan anyway)
The 12 “reluctantly” agree to step back into the fold, claiming that their action was only intended for the good of the game at grass roots level
We all move on....nothing to see here
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I would be amazed if any footballer at one of the ESL clubs decided they did not want to play for that team anymore - not one will give up £100k + a week (not a chance, and I don't blame them)
Darren Bent was asked the same question this morning, he said he would stay at the club.
Depends who you are I think. The top players tend to want to progress their careers and the money comes along with that naturally. If Grealish wanted to join madrid/City/whoever before all this, you'd realise he was getting a nice payrise but you couldn't argue with the logic he'd probably be more likely to win trophies or become a regular for England. Now he's probably got a bigger chance of starting for England with us with half the rest of the squad ineligible,
I suppose it will depend on how much they want to represent their national team and whether a million a week will alleviate that pain of not doing that.
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Has Beijing Red reappeared on Twitter to add his comments. The trouble is like Trump and Johnson, it is hard to parody when real life is even more of a parody.
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Oliver Holt said last night that two of the English clubs are wavering, and I'd bet anything you like that it's Chelsea and Man City. IF it's true.
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Oliver Holt said last night that two of the English clubs are wavering, and I'd bet anything you like that it's Chelsea and Man City. IF it's true.
They were “reluctant” applicants (allegedly)
According to Perez at RM, all 12 have signed binding contracts so I’m not sure what the penalties would be for a club pulling out
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Chelsea and Man City were, apparently, least convinced of the merits of the proposal and acquiesced due to fears of being left behind. Hopefully one or both break ranks and the whole thing crumbles.
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yeah i don't honestly think the likes of Mount, Kane, Rashford etc...…...see International football as a chore. I think they genuinely want to represent England because well they were kids once and that's what you dream of. If it came down to them being out in the International cold for any length of time, I really think they would give the situation some very hard thought but again you need the big 6 to let you leave, and UEFA to allow transfers between the two leagues otherwise you're stuck in limbo for the length of your contract.
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Even if this does not go ahead, there needs to be consequences for those who pulled this stunt.
And their inclusion of Spurs, a club who have won SFA in their history, was the ultimate insult to illustrious clubs all over Europe.
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Oliver Holt said last night that two of the English clubs are wavering, and I'd bet anything you like that it's Chelsea and Man City. IF it's true.
They were “reluctant” applicants (allegedly)
According to Perez at RM, all 12 have signed binding contracts so I’m not sure what the penalties would be for a club pulling out
I think he's lying. Every report I've seen, in The Athletic and elsewhere, makes clear there is no binding contract, and I trust that more than I trust Perez - frankly, I trust an alligator with its jaws around my head more than I trust Perez.
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Oliver Holt said last night that two of the English clubs are wavering, and I'd bet anything you like that it's Chelsea and Man City. IF it's true.
Couldn't be anyone else. If you're only involved in the sport to provide yourself with a veneer of international respectability and you don't care about the money, why would you invite any more controversy than you needed to.
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I would be amazed if any footballer at one of the ESL clubs decided they did not want to play for that team anymore - not one will give up £100k + a week (not a chance, and I don't blame them)
Darren Bent was asked the same question this morning, he said he would stay at the club.
That's why I think not allowing those players to play for their national teams would be a key move. Would probably be a relief to some of them, but would present many of them with a real dilemma.
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Amongst other self serving comments Perez said "These are difficult times and we need to find solutions". So you twat you have bankrupted your club and now want to ruin the rest of football community to save your precious little shithouse?
Him, Agnelli, Lewis, Henry, Glazer etc are the type of people who turn up at a funeral pyre hoping to buy any items of jewellery for next to nothing from the dead body so the family can pay the funeral expenses.
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I don't for a second think City or Chelsea were in on this till the last minute. They have at best been mildly tolerated by the established clubs for gatecrashing the European money trough. My guess is they looked at their confirmed members and realised a league with Arsenal and Tottenham in wouldn't convince anyone they'd poached off the European elite and reluctantly offered the invitation. I'd also say they probably only did because they knew Bayern weren't joining who seem to have it in for both clubs
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Apparently UEFA negotiating a £5.2b deal with Centricus Asset Management, a London based hedge fund
Currently UEFA doles out £3b each year
So I think I see where this is heading
UEFA does the deal based on the new “improved” CL format that was agreed yesterday. The “dirty dozen” were happy with the format but not the allocation of dosh.
So, UEFA agrees that the extra £2.2b should go mainly to the 12 to pretty much compensate for the money they would have got from JP Morgan (which was only as upfront loan anyway)
The 12 “reluctantly” agree to step back into the fold, claiming that their action was only intended for the good of the game at grass roots level
We all move on....nothing to see here
Clive this is my worry as we will end up with worst of both worlds. I wish UEFA had not approved their own proposal yesterday and set it aside for a while. I would rather these weasels are chucked out and we restart with a reset. Keeping them in at the high price they will demand is just slow death.
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It's the biggest clubs with the biggest debts, I seriously hope the other 14 Premier League clubs vote to kick the greedy ***** out of the league. Yes the Premier League may be not be as rich but it will still have integrity and the likes of clubs in lower leagues that they can dream of attaining a place in the top English league.
Wasn't long ago Brighton and Bournemouth nearly went out of existance, they were about to go out of the league but managed to climb up through the pyramid system, their fans must have been euphoric at that achievement, that's what it is all about to me that you can still dream of achieving the impossible not some divine right to demand and get everything you want.
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Do we know when today's meeting is taking place?
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Apparently UEFA negotiating a £5.2b deal with Centricus Asset Management, a London based hedge fund
Currently UEFA doles out £3b each year
So I think I see where this is heading
UEFA does the deal based on the new “improved” CL format that was agreed yesterday. The “dirty dozen” were happy with the format but not the allocation of dosh.
So, UEFA agrees that the extra £2.2b should go mainly to the 12 to pretty much compensate for the money they would have got from JP Morgan (which was only as upfront loan anyway)
The 12 “reluctantly” agree to step back into the fold, claiming that their action was only intended for the good of the game at grass roots level
We all move on....nothing to see here
Clive this is my worry as we will end up with worst of both worlds. I wish UEFA had not approved their own proposal yesterday and set it aside for a while. I would rather these weasels are chucked out and we restart with a reset. Keeping them in at the high price they will demand is just slow death.
Yep, short term pain over a long term strangulation and forelock tugging.
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Good morning. What's wrong with a European Super League and why are so many politicians, here and across Europe, falling over themselves to condemn it?
For those of you who have missed it: 11 of Europe's biggest football clubs and Tottenham Hotspur have announced their intention to establish a new midweek tournament in which the 12 clubs play each other, as a replacement for the Champions League.
But what distinguishes the new competition from the old is that the 12 founding clubs will have a place at the top table in perpetuity: regardless of how badly they do in either their domestic leagues or in the super league, they will be back in the super league next year.
What gives sport its point is that results have consequences - that Arsenal's 1-1 draw with Fulham means that Arsenal's hopes of playing in the Europa League next season are essentially extinguished, and that Fulham's prospects of remaining in the Premier League have also been brought to an end. If there are no meaningful consequences to failure, what's the point? Football without relegation is like a soap opera without unhappy love affairs: what would be the point?
Of course, the big bet that the owners of the 12 club are making is that their global fanbases won't care about that: that they can make up for what they lose among their local supporters through global streaming: that there is an audience for soap operas without unhappy love affairs.
As it happens, I think they're wrong: the underlying assumption of the Super League's founders that people in Malaysia or Zambia or the States will happily watch games without consequence between Real Madrid and Arsenal is, I think, based on a condescending and ill-judged understanding of the commonality between football fans in Stoke Newington and football fans in Kinshasa.
Regardless, the ultimate fate of the scheme rests only in part in the hands of European governments. That's part of why politicians across the continent - from Boris Johnson to Keir Starmer to Emmanuel Macron to the European Commission - have rushed to condemn the move, because the wheeze represents something that all European politicians are wrestling with: the loss of control created by globalisation.
Whether they present themselves as the agent of that change, or the tribune of the people left behind, in different ways what they are trying to grapple with is how to maintain not only 'the European way of life' but their own hold on power and relevance in an era in which global capital risks making them seem both powerless and irrelevant. The consequences of the tussle between Europe's politicians and the Super League's founders have implications well beyond football.
For work reasons, I get a lot of the daily emails from political titles. This was the best one this morning, from Arsenal fan and political editor of the New Statesman, Stephen Bush.
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Steve Parrish of Palace said last night that the 14 had the power to expel, but obviously that they’d rather not.
I wish they all had the balls to do it.
Promote the four championship clubs in the play off places for a start. I know it’s not that simple and the relegation places would need sorting too, but what a league we’d have next year.
Anyone could win. I think grounds would sell out, covid permitting, and I don’t think one “legacy fan” would miss any of those six clubs in the slightest. I certainly wouldn’t.
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hah, another one making the link between this and globalisation. Maybe people are finally waking up when its something they care about getting trashed by it,.
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Everton response is majestic.
https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2111866
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hah, another one making the link between this and globalisation. Maybe people are finally waking up when its something they care about getting trashed by it,.
Do me a favour.
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Everton response is majestic.
https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2111866
Very good.
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hah, another one making the link between this and globalisation. Maybe people are finally waking up when its something they care about getting trashed by it,.
I'm alright, I've got my caravan in burnham on sea with my england flag flying high :)
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The odd thing for me is that this is the chance that the English clubs have to dominate the Champs League with the big Spanish 2 and Juve in a financial mess. Why should they bring football down just to help them save their necks?
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Even if this does not go ahead, there needs to be consequences for those who pulled this stunt.
And their inclusion of Spurs, a club who have won SFA in their history, was the ultimate insult to illustrious clubs all over Europe.
Completely agree.
They have exposed themselves for the greedy, self serving ****** they are and have shown the rest of football they don’t give a fuck about them.
There MUST be a punishment, but I fear after seeing the Palace owner being very mealy mouthed over the whole thing last night, I won’t hold my breath.
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Everton response is majestic.
https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2111866
Classy as you'd expect from the better half of Merseyside.
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I blame Aston Villa for this mess and also the likes of Leicester, Everton and West Ham.
How dare we spend millions in the transfer market, hold on to our best players and threaten the monopoly the Big 6 worked so hard to achieve.
We should be ashamed of ourselves. :) :) :)
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The odd thing for me is that this is the chance that the English clubs have to dominate the Champs League with the big Spanish 2 and Juve in a financial mess. Why should they bring football down just to help them save their necks?
you're thinking of this in sporting terms rather than money terms. Why risk the dangers of potentially underperforming and losing to poorer teams? If it was all about money = success, then ManU wouldn't have gone 6 years without a CL win and a title. This way the money is guaranteed however much they stink the place out.
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Have you ever read such bullshit and claptrap as is coming out of the arse of the Real Madrid owner?
Real Madrid President Florentino Perez said the decision to create the new league, which his club would be a part of, was in part taken because "young people are no longer interested" in the game.
He told a Spanish TV show: "Audiences are decreasing and rights are decreasing and something had to be done. We are all ruined. Television has to change so we can adapt."
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Can the Premier league kick these clubs out? I have no interest in watching a league where 6 clubs have a guaranteed massive financial advantage and the rest are just fodder (even more so than now).
Can you imagine how competitive a league with Us, Leicester, Evington, leeds, W Spam etc would be?
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My bet is that this is about tv rights in Asia. The clubs want those outright, uefa/fifa/pl won’t give them up.
Well being outside of UEFA, Fifa, PL and they can also set their own rules on squad sizes, foreign players, and any other rule they want to implement to allow them to field all the "top" players in these "top" teams. Whole swathes of subs (remember the big teams wanting that this season), quarters instead of halves or at least added Advert refreshment breaks on 22 and 67 minutes. Other things that will enable more advertisers to pay.
I think the latter is more likely. These will be mid-week games so in the evening in Europe. That's the middle of the night out here, during work week, so I can't imagine the viewership out of Asia will be considerable.
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Even if this does not go ahead, there needs to be consequences for those who pulled this stunt.
And their inclusion of Spurs, a club who have won SFA in their history, was the ultimate insult to illustrious clubs all over Europe.
One of the best quotes I saw yesterday was that asking Spurs to join a European Super League is like asking Bananaman to join The Avengers.
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Can the Premier league kick these clubs out? I have no interest in watching a league where 6 clubs have a guaranteed massive financial advantage and the rest are just fodder (even more so than now).
Can you imagine how competitive a league with Us, Leicester, Evington, leeds, W Spam etc would be?
Throw in Southampton and we have the new Big 6. Please, let it happen.
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I have a feeling this morning that this isn't going to happen.
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So we'll be wearing similar shirts to Leeds in our warm up tomorrow.
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Dear Premier League
Could you please expel Man City (and the rest of the ****) before tomorrow night, so you can automatically award 3 points to the opposition team, Aston Villa?
My nerves would appreciate it
Thanks xxx
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The remaining Premier League clubs need to come up with a response to this that indicates we are already planning for a future without these clubs. At the moment all the momentum is against any ESL, but I can see that wavering once they effectively start trying to bribe lower league and grassroots teams who are already struggling with the promise of immediate cash injections.
The FA, EFL and Premier League need to get ahead of the game with realistic proposals about how they can help the rest of the pyramid - a start could be dividing up any prize money due to be awarded to the 'Big 6' to the rest of the league.
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Apparently UEFA negotiating a £5.2b deal with Centricus Asset Management, a London based hedge fund
Currently UEFA doles out £3b each year
So I think I see where this is heading
UEFA does the deal based on the new “improved” CL format that was agreed yesterday. The “dirty dozen” were happy with the format but not the allocation of dosh.
So, UEFA agrees that the extra £2.2b should go mainly to the 12 to pretty much compensate for the money they would have got from JP Morgan (which was only as upfront loan anyway)
The 12 “reluctantly” agree to step back into the fold, claiming that their action was only intended for the good of the game at grass roots level
We all move on....nothing to see here
Clive this is my worry as we will end up with worst of both worlds. I wish UEFA had not approved their own proposal yesterday and set it aside for a while. I would rather these weasels are chucked out and we restart with a reset. Keeping them in at the high price they will demand is just slow death.
Yep. If they are allowed to press ahead with the ESL and stay in the Premier League then it's game over. The extra financial advantage they will have on top of the already existing one will make the league even more uncompetitive and then there will be the whole situation around European qualification, with the non-ESL teams still presumably able to qualify for the UEFA competitions.
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Agree the PL is the key to this. If the PL says (in accordance with its rules), you can not play in this competition and remain in the PL then the ESL is dead in the water.
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As
I have a feeling this morning that this isn't going to happen.
I'd like to think it'll happen but there's no way some of the spineless suits will go along with it. Oh to be a fly on the wall.
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If the ESL happens and FIFA, UEFA and national associations kick those clubs out how would that affect the transfer system? Theoretically, as they sit outside the rules of the governing bodies they wouldn't have to pay transfer fees to clubs who are still inside the system.
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Apparently UEFA negotiating a £5.2b deal with Centricus Asset Management, a London based hedge fund
Currently UEFA doles out £3b each year
So I think I see where this is heading
UEFA does the deal based on the new “improved” CL format that was agreed yesterday. The “dirty dozen” were happy with the format but not the allocation of dosh.
So, UEFA agrees that the extra £2.2b should go mainly to the 12 to pretty much compensate for the money they would have got from JP Morgan (which was only as upfront loan anyway)
The 12 “reluctantly” agree to step back into the fold, claiming that their action was only intended for the good of the game at grass roots level
We all move on....nothing to see here
Clive this is my worry as we will end up with worst of both worlds. I wish UEFA had not approved their own proposal yesterday and set it aside for a while. I would rather these weasels are chucked out and we restart with a reset. Keeping them in at the high price they will demand is just slow death.
Yep. If they are allowed to press ahead with the ESL and stay in the Premier League then it's game over. The extra financial advantage they will have on top of the already existing one will make the league even more uncompetitive and then there will be the whole situation around European qualification, with the non-ESL teams still presumably able to qualify for the UEFA competitions.
Why will give a toss about the Premier League? There’s no incentive for them to win it or be in the top 4 as European qualification no longer matters so they’ll want to keep their best players fit for the big money games.
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Everton response is majestic.
https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2111866
Classy as you'd expect from the better half of Merseyside.
Well done Everton.
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Everton response is majestic.
https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2111866
Classy as you'd expect from the better half of Merseyside.
Well done Everton.
Agreed. Poles apart from the red germs.
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That interview with Florentino Perez was characteristically illuminating. 'Football is about the big clubs playing each other', 'how dare Ceferin insult the president of a great club like Juventus', all this shit. Just a reminder of the absolute, illimitable, Francoist entitlement behind all this.
Bear in mind Perez also said "The young people want this?"
What people?
How young?
Where are they?
Bollocks.
Football is about being competitive and risk of jeopardy. What a lying prick.
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Everton response is majestic.
https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2111866
Classy as you'd expect from the better half of Merseyside.
Well done Everton.
Agreed. Poles apart from the red germs.
Yes, it's a nice sentiment but at the same time Everton and the rest of us must realise that these owners are not one bit concerned about their legacy. The owners of these clubs are true capitalists and are taking their capitalism to it's extreme or will in the future when Manchester United become the Dubai Red Devils for 10 years until the next location offers them more to become the Kuala Lumper Red Devils ...and on an on.
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hah, another one making the link between this and globalisation. Maybe people are finally waking up when its something they care about getting trashed by it,.
Any fool can make that link though. And it's hardly a surprise that Macron was the first to condemn it, given the French view of the EU as a great opportunity for protectionism of the European way of life against American imperialism.
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Utah Jazz. What Jazz does Utah have?
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That interview with Florentino Perez was characteristically illuminating. 'Football is about the big clubs playing each other', 'how dare Ceferin insult the president of a great club like Juventus', all this shit. Just a reminder of the absolute, illimitable, Francoist entitlement behind all this.
Bear in mind Perez also said "The young people want this?"
What people?
How young?
Where are they?
Bollocks.
Football is about being competitive and risk of jeopardy. What a lying prick.
I kind of see what he is getting at.
I think there is a huge swathe of people (saddos) in the world who have never kicked a ball, never been part of a football crowd, never experienced the feelings associated with attending a match with that ball of nerves in the pit of your stomach, making you feel sick.
Never experienced the elation of winning a big game or the utter misery of a defeat.
BUT, they play FIFA or other football related computer games.
They know all the players from the ‘big clubs’ because they are in ‘their’ virtual teams.
They know all the stats of the top players because they study them like a high level game of Top Trumps.
Those are the people being targeted by the new league.
Most of the people who will pay to watch those super league games will never attend a game. They will never have attended one.
This new league wants ‘virtual’ fans watching a ‘ virtual PRODUCT’ but paying real money for the experience.
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Utah Jazz. What Jazz does Utah have?
None. They started off in New Orleans and have relocated.
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Reports in Italy that Roma and Napoli might be invited, and I'm pretty certain they'd accept - Roma have American owners, and De Laurentiis at Napoli is a corrupt fuck who's wanted to be in something like this since Berlusconi mooted it three decades ago.
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hah, another one making the link between this and globalisation. Maybe people are finally waking up when its something they care about getting trashed by it,.
Any fool can make that link though. And it's hardly a surprise that Macron was the first to condemn it, given the French view of the EU as a great opportunity for protectionism of the European way of life against American imperialism.
Well yeah because he's a massive hypocrite. He wants globalisation on his terms ie The EU terms but seems to have missed the point that by definition its global where the richest non-europeans get to make the rules which isn't him.
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hah, another one making the link between this and globalisation. Maybe people are finally waking up when its something they care about getting trashed by it,.
Any fool can make that link though. And it's hardly a surprise that Macron was the first to condemn it, given the French view of the EU as a great opportunity for protectionism of the European way of life against American imperialism.
Well yeah because he's a massive hypocrite. He wants globalisation on his terms ie The EU terms but seems to have missed the point that by definition its global where the richest non-europeans get to make the rules which isn't him.
Please don’t contaminate this thread as well, with your political bullshit. It’s bad enough elsewhere.
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Point taken.
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Screaming hypocrisy abounds with those capitalists and free market thinkers who suddenly think that capitalism and the free market should be restricted. Populist nonsense from people who have bought us to this in the first place.
Reminiscent of the massive volte face after the World Cup in 1990.
Tories and football? No fuckin' thanks.
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Screaming hypocrisy abounds with those capitalists and free market thinkers who suddenly think that capitalism and the free market should be restricted. Populist nonsense from people who have bought us to this in the first place.
Reminiscent of the massive volte face after the World Cup in 1990.
Tories and football? No fuckin' thanks.
The point is that this isn't the free market. What you have here is a cartel, which is very much the antithesis of the competition that free markets are all about.
-
That interview with Florentino Perez was characteristically illuminating. 'Football is about the big clubs playing each other', 'how dare Ceferin insult the president of a great club like Juventus', all this shit. Just a reminder of the absolute, illimitable, Francoist entitlement behind all this.
Bear in mind Perez also said "The young people want this?"
What people?
How young?
Where are they?
Bollocks.
Football is about being competitive and risk of jeopardy. What a lying prick.
I kind of see what he is getting at.
I think there is a huge swathe of people (saddos) in the world who have never kicked a ball, never been part of a football crowd, never experienced the feelings associated with attending a match with that ball of nerves in the pit of your stomach, making you feel sick.
Never experienced the elation of winning a big game or the utter misery of a defeat.
BUT, they play FIFA or other football related computer games.
They know all the players from the ‘big clubs’ because they are in ‘their’ virtual teams.
They know all the stats of the top players because they study them like a high level game of Top Trumps.
Those are the people being targeted by the new league.
Most of the people who will pay to watch those super league games will never attend a game. They will never have attended one.
This new league wants ‘virtual’ fans watching a ‘ virtual PRODUCT’ but paying real money for the experience.
Excellent post andyh. Frightening but accurate. The ESL logic in a nutshell.
-
Screaming hypocrisy abounds with those capitalists and free market thinkers who suddenly think that capitalism and the free market should be restricted. Populist nonsense from people who have bought us to this in the first place.
Reminiscent of the massive volte face after the World Cup in 1990.
Tories and football? No fuckin' thanks.
The point is that this isn't the free market. What you have here is a cartel, which is very much the antithesis of the competition that free markets are all about.
Good point but where does a free market end and a cartel begin?
Are supermarkets a cartel? There are for the sake of argument ten major players accounting for 90% of the business with corner shops making up the rest
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Found this on BBC
BBC News - Why Super League plan makes financial sense for top clubs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56800611
The promise of trickle down is utter bollocks. They're all too much in debt. Let them go and take their debt with them. Ban all of them from everything. The player's will leave when their wages can't be paid.
Fans should boycott anything to do with this Super Greed League. Clubs involved, TV, Advertisers Investers, the lot.
Clubs owed outstanding transfer fees should call in their debts to increase financial pressure on them..
They'd become untouchable and consequently income would dry up. They'd have to move to Asia to make ends meet, like the Circus they will become.
They're not big rich clubs really. It's all built on runaway debt. Without these clubs there would be a more even playing field with better financial control.
FFP is impossible with these levels debt and exceptions are made for them and their profligacy.
Fans also need to take back their clubs.
Utv, long live football.
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That interview with Florentino Perez was characteristically illuminating. 'Football is about the big clubs playing each other', 'how dare Ceferin insult the president of a great club like Juventus', all this shit. Just a reminder of the absolute, illimitable, Francoist entitlement behind all this.
Bear in mind Perez also said "The young people want this?"
What people?
How young?
Where are they?
Bollocks.
Football is about being competitive and risk of jeopardy. What a lying prick.
I kind of see what he is getting at.
I think there is a huge swathe of people (saddos) in the world who have never kicked a ball, never been part of a football crowd, never experienced the feelings associated with attending a match with that ball of nerves in the pit of your stomach, making you feel sick.
Never experienced the elation of winning a big game or the utter misery of a defeat.
BUT, they play FIFA or other football related computer games.
They know all the players from the ‘big clubs’ because they are in ‘their’ virtual teams.
They know all the stats of the top players because they study them like a high level game of Top Trumps.
Those are the people being targeted by the new league.
Most of the people who will pay to watch those super league games will never attend a game. They will never have attended one.
This new league wants ‘virtual’ fans watching a ‘ virtual PRODUCT’ but paying real money for the experience.
Excellent post andyh. Frightening but accurate. The ESL logic in a nutshell.
Yes, Andy, mate. You've hit the nail on the head there.
-
Screaming hypocrisy abounds with those capitalists and free market thinkers who suddenly think that capitalism and the free market should be restricted. Populist nonsense from people who have bought us to this in the first place.
Reminiscent of the massive volte face after the World Cup in 1990.
Tories and football? No fuckin' thanks.
The point is that this isn't the free market. What you have here is a cartel, which is very much the antithesis of the competition that free markets are all about.
Good point but where does a free market end and a cartel begin?
Are supermarkets a cartel? There are for the sake of argument ten major players accounting for 90% of the business with corner shops making up the rest
I think Nev is saying just that. It's utter hypocrisy coming from people who claim they believe in a free market.
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Everton response is majestic.
https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2111866
Great response by Everton.
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It's always hilarious when these people try and act like football has a popularity problem. It's insane.
He was pointing to all the empty stadiums for the past year.
-
That interview with Florentino Perez was characteristically illuminating. 'Football is about the big clubs playing each other', 'how dare Ceferin insult the president of a great club like Juventus', all this shit. Just a reminder of the absolute, illimitable, Francoist entitlement behind all this.
Bear in mind Perez also said "The young people want this?"
What people?
How young?
Where are they?
Bollocks.
Football is about being competitive and risk of jeopardy. What a lying prick.
I kind of see what he is getting at.
I think there is a huge swathe of people (saddos) in the world who have never kicked a ball, never been part of a football crowd, never experienced the feelings associated with attending a match with that ball of nerves in the pit of your stomach, making you feel sick.
Never experienced the elation of winning a big game or the utter misery of a defeat.
BUT, they play FIFA or other football related computer games.
They know all the players from the ‘big clubs’ because they are in ‘their’ virtual teams.
They know all the stats of the top players because they study them like a high level game of Top Trumps.
Those are the people being targeted by the new league.
Most of the people who will pay to watch those super league games will never attend a game. They will never have attended one.
This new league wants ‘virtual’ fans watching a ‘ virtual PRODUCT’ but paying real money for the experience.
Excellent post andyh. Frightening but accurate. The ESL logic in a nutshell.
Yes, Andy, mate. You've hit the nail on the head there.
And I think this last paragraph confirms Andy’s excellent post
Anas Laghrari, the Secretary General of the Super League, has threatened that the tournament could start as early as September 2021, if an agreement can be reached with Uefa.
Laghrari said: "The Super League has prepared for this, threats of exclusion are not legal. The timeline could accelerate. If an agreement is reached with UEFA, the competition could start as early as September 2021."
When asked what the justification for the League was, he added: "The younger generations are less interested in football. They only tune in for the big matches."[/b]
So can we all agree now that WHU v Villa, Everton v Bournemouth and Arsenal v Watford on the last day of last season were not “big matches”?
I notice they’ve already given themselves fancy titles. They’ve already got presidents, chairmen, vice chairmen, CEOs and now a Secretary General
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I'm sure Real Madrid fans will be delighted to know that five out of their first six European Cup Finals were not "big matches" because they weren't playing Twatty Twelve teams.
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I’m not sure it’s really a simple case of free markets/ Tory hypocrisy (and I say this as a Labour member and voter). Any philosophy, left or right, has elements of private business and public provision, and elements of government regulation.
I think it’s recognition that due to the passion and loyalty of real (legacy!?) football fans, people can’t just switch “suppliers” like they would in a normal market if they didn’t like what was happening. It’s just calling for a special recognition for the unique characteristics of football. I don’t like the Tories at all, but I hope they intervene here, would respect them more for doing so, and wouldn’t see it as hypocrisy.
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Hard to emphasise how much worse Juve are than anything you can imagine from Man Utd or Liverpool. Their fans are super in favour (Milan moderately, Inter are pretty divided to be fair), and when Agnelli was told at a Serie A meeting today that the extra money would let them win the league every year he just replied 'same as the last 80 years then'. Cue insults.
It's difficult to express. If you meet someone in Verona, say, or Florence, who calls themselves a Juve fan with no other connection to Piedmont, you know everything about them already. Starfuckers, modernity-hogs, boring-as-hell macho lads who wear the same puffer jackets and white trainers and boring slick haircuts with no dreams, no imagination, and who think racism in football is 'blown out of proportion', whose ideal holiday destination is Dubai and who, once there, will eat nothing but whatever Italian food they can find and splatter it all over Instagram. As my girlfriend's mum would call them 'cani senza patria'.
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Hard to emphasise how much worse Juve are than anything you can imagine from Man Utd or Liverpool. Their fans are super in favour (Milan moderately, Inter are pretty divided to be fair), and when Agnelli was told at a Serie A meeting today that the extra money would let them win the league every year he just replied 'same as the last 80 years then'. Cue insults.
It's difficult to express. If you meet someone in Verona, say, or Florence, who calls themselves a Juve fan with no other connection to Piedmont, you know everything about them already. Starfuckers, modernity-hogs, boring-as-hell macho lads who wear the same puffer jackets and white trainers and boring slick haircuts with no dreams, no imagination, and who think racism in football is 'blown out of proportion', whose ideal holiday destination is Dubai and who, once there, will eat nothing but whatever Italian food they can find and splatter it all over Instagram. As my girlfriend's mum would call them 'cani senza patria'.
I doubt you'll find a Juve fan in Florence but the rest is probably true around the world.
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Hard to emphasise how much worse Juve are than anything you can imagine from Man Utd or Liverpool. Their fans are super in favour (Milan moderately, Inter are pretty divided to be fair), and when Agnelli was told at a Serie A meeting today that the extra money would let them win the league every year he just replied 'same as the last 80 years then'. Cue insults.
It's difficult to express. If you meet someone in Verona, say, or Florence, who calls themselves a Juve fan with no other connection to Piedmont, you know everything about them already. Starfuckers, modernity-hogs, boring-as-hell macho lads who wear the same puffer jackets and white trainers and boring slick haircuts with no dreams, no imagination, and who think racism in football is 'blown out of proportion', whose ideal holiday destination is Dubai and who, once there, will eat nothing but whatever Italian food they can find and splatter it all over Instagram. As my girlfriend's mum would call them 'cani senza patria'.
I doubt you'll find a Juve fan in Florence but the rest is probably true around the world.
They slither out when it's Fiorentina-Juve in Florence and then slither back under their rocks again. They're probably the worst.
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It's time to go down the German route of club ownership. It would sort this shit out.
Come and see what you could have won
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/15/jeremy-corbyn-attacks-pricing-out-of-football-fans-in-premier-league
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Hard to emphasise how much worse Juve are than anything you can imagine from Man Utd or Liverpool. Their fans are super in favour (Milan moderately, Inter are pretty divided to be fair), and when Agnelli was told at a Serie A meeting today that the extra money would let them win the league every year he just replied 'same as the last 80 years then'. Cue insults.
It's difficult to express. If you meet someone in Verona, say, or Florence, who calls themselves a Juve fan with no other connection to Piedmont, you know everything about them already. Starfuckers, modernity-hogs, boring-as-hell macho lads who wear the same puffer jackets and white trainers and boring slick haircuts with no dreams, no imagination, and who think racism in football is 'blown out of proportion', whose ideal holiday destination is Dubai and who, once there, will eat nothing but whatever Italian food they can find and splatter it all over Instagram. As my girlfriend's mum would call them 'cani senza patria'.
I like the sound of your girlfriend's mother, which I don't mean as weirdly as it looks when typed out!
-
That interview with Florentino Perez was characteristically illuminating. 'Football is about the big clubs playing each other', 'how dare Ceferin insult the president of a great club like Juventus', all this shit. Just a reminder of the absolute, illimitable, Francoist entitlement behind all this.
Bear in mind Perez also said "The young people want this?"
What people?
How young?
Where are they?
Bollocks.
Football is about being competitive and risk of jeopardy. What a lying prick.
I kind of see what he is getting at.
I think there is a huge swathe of people (saddos) in the world who have never kicked a ball, never been part of a football crowd, never experienced the feelings associated with attending a match with that ball of nerves in the pit of your stomach, making you feel sick.
Never experienced the elation of winning a big game or the utter misery of a defeat.
BUT, they play FIFA or other football related computer games.
They know all the players from the ‘big clubs’ because they are in ‘their’ virtual teams.
They know all the stats of the top players because they study them like a high level game of Top Trumps.
Those are the people being targeted by the new league.
Most of the people who will pay to watch those super league games will never attend a game. They will never have attended one.
This new league wants ‘virtual’ fans watching a ‘ virtual PRODUCT’ but paying real money for the experience.
I wonder what the people of Liverpool , Manchester etc will think when their clubs are eventually relocated to the US, Middle east etc. because that's what the "superleague" plan leads to.
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I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
-
That interview with Florentino Perez was characteristically illuminating. 'Football is about the big clubs playing each other', 'how dare Ceferin insult the president of a great club like Juventus', all this shit. Just a reminder of the absolute, illimitable, Francoist entitlement behind all this.
Bear in mind Perez also said "The young people want this?"
What people?
How young?
Where are they?
Bollocks.
Football is about being competitive and risk of jeopardy. What a lying prick.
I kind of see what he is getting at.
I think there is a huge swathe of people (saddos) in the world who have never kicked a ball, never been part of a football crowd, never experienced the feelings associated with attending a match with that ball of nerves in the pit of your stomach, making you feel sick.
Never experienced the elation of winning a big game or the utter misery of a defeat.
BUT, they play FIFA or other football related computer games.
They know all the players from the ‘big clubs’ because they are in ‘their’ virtual teams.
They know all the stats of the top players because they study them like a high level game of Top Trumps.
Those are the people being targeted by the new league.
Most of the people who will pay to watch those super league games will never attend a game. They will never have attended one.
This new league wants ‘virtual’ fans watching a ‘ virtual PRODUCT’ but paying real money for the experience.
Excellent post andyh. Frightening but accurate. The ESL logic in a nutshell.
Yes, Andy, mate. You've hit the nail on the head there.
And I think this last paragraph confirms Andy’s excellent post
Anas Laghrari, the Secretary General of the Super League, has threatened that the tournament could start as early as September 2021, if an agreement can be reached with Uefa.
Laghrari said: "The Super League has prepared for this, threats of exclusion are not legal. The timeline could accelerate. If an agreement is reached with UEFA, the competition could start as early as September 2021."
When asked what the justification for the League was, he added: "The younger generations are less interested in football. They only tune in for the big matches."[/b]
So can we all agree now that WHU v Villa, Everton v Bournemouth and Arsenal v Watford on the last day of last season were not “big matches”?
I notice they’ve already given themselves fancy titles. They’ve already got presidents, chairmen, vice chairmen, CEOs and now a Secretary General
Spot on Andy and great post.
The likes of us are no longer the target and they see the typical supporters as something that is expendible.
But there are so many of us and the power is something that they underestimate.
The whole argument from these clubs is that football couldn't survive without them.
Maybe that's not the case if the reliance on them is changed in some way.
They are targeting an audience that may not necessarily last the distance.
After all its a throwaway society. Surely a gimmick of a league will get boring to an audience with no loyalty or history that only goes from the last PS5 title.
There's a point. FIFA 22 without the big clubs??
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There is no doubt they will be playing these games over seas. I think Manure sold out a friendly in the US a couple of years ago 100k+.
I wonder how long these new supporters will hang around for before they get bored and switch over to fake Wrestling or some other Bollocks.
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I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
Well, they've now won as many league titles as Inter and Milan combined (36 to 18 each respectively).
There is no doubt they will be playing these games over seas. I think Manure sold out a friendly in the US a couple of years ago 100k+.
I wonder how long these new supporters will hang around for before they get bored and switch over to fake Wrestling or some other Bollocks.
Wrestling is much better than a Super League, because it's an honest fix i.e. a show. This ESL is turning real sport into fake sport while pretending it's still real, and anyone who watches it is a huge fucking mark.
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I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
You mean far less successful in Europe? I suppose they are when compared against Milan but I don't think Juve has that big of an international following, do they?
Domestically though... seems like half of bloody Italy supports them. Don't they have as many scudettos as Milan and Inter combined now?
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I wonder what the people of Liverpool , Manchester etc will think when their clubs are eventually relocated to the US, Middle east etc. because that's what the "superleague" plan leads to.
That the plan's even been mooted surely means that the clubs don't see themselves as belonging to the people of Liverpool, Mancester etc. any more.
Every fan of every other club in the EPL has been rightly angry at how much the set up favours these big* clubs since about 1994. The best possible outcome would be for them to succeed, get banned from playing in any other competions and one after the other go bankrupt. It's hard on the "Legacy fans" (and hell isn't hot enough for the ****** who thought that gem up), but it might be the only chance to redress the balance and make the league competative. Of course I want Villa to get into a European competition. I want us to win everything going, but I want to us to compete with clubs of the same level. I would have hated to have been like Manchester City when they bought the world.
*rich
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I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
You mean far less successful in Europe? I suppose they are when compared against Milan but I don't think Juve has that big of an international following, do they?
Domestically though... seems like half of bloody Italy supports them. Don't they have as many scudettos as Milan and Inter combined now?
I didn't realise that, which shows how much notice I take of Italian football now. It's more their lack of European success that I was thinking of.
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They don't have a great record in the European Cup. Something like 2 wins and runners up 5 times.
Harder when you can't buy off the officials I guess.
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I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
You mean far less successful in Europe? I suppose they are when compared against Milan but I don't think Juve has that big of an international following, do they?
Domestically though... seems like half of bloody Italy supports them. Don't they have as many scudettos as Milan and Inter combined now?
I didn't realise that, which shows how much notice I take of Italian football now. It's more their lack of European success that I was thinking of.
Helped by leaving a Rolex for the ref and linesmen in their kit bags at every game.
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I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
You mean far less successful in Europe? I suppose they are when compared against Milan but I don't think Juve has that big of an international following, do they?
Domestically though... seems like half of bloody Italy supports them. Don't they have as many scudettos as Milan and Inter combined now?
I didn't realise that, which shows how much notice I take of Italian football now. It's more their lack of European success that I was thinking of.
They have as many European Cups as Forest, who to the best of my knowledge never locked a referee in a cupboard for refusing to take a bung.
Also, who are majority-owned by the grandson of a billionaire industrialist who's never worked a day in his life and embodies every inch of entitlement, arrogance and one-percentery that ruins the world in every aspect, every day.
You know, the club and the people that run it who really deserve special treatment and eternal success.
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I think scudetti is the correct plural. Still utter ****** long before these proposals came out. Bribing their way to a title, then releasing a shirt with "25 titles on the pitch" written on them. Because titles you've won by paying referees should count...
Absolute twats.
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I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
They are "Italy's team", according to my mate from uni who was from Sicily.
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FIFA president being pretty clear.
https://youtu.be/iULk6gtWvoE
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I’m not sure it’s really a simple case of free markets/ Tory hypocrisy (and I say this as a Labour member and voter). Any philosophy, left or right, has elements of private business and public provision, and elements of government regulation.
I think it’s recognition that due to the passion and loyalty of real (legacy!?) football fans, people can’t just switch “suppliers” like they would in a normal market if they didn’t like what was happening. It’s just calling for a special recognition for the unique characteristics of football. I don’t like the Tories at all, but I hope they intervene here, would respect them more for doing so, and wouldn’t see it as hypocrisy.
Well I have to admire your fair mindedness, I'm probably too cynical to readily accept someone like the PM doing anything other than that which benefits himself or his party, and the latter is a stretch as far as he is concerned.
We also need to be mindful that past Conservative involvement in football lead to David Mellor engaging in "red hot soccer chat" and no-one wants a return to those dark days.
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Looks like Boris is going to war on this one, he, of course, will realise that virtually the whole nation is against this move. I really don't get it, if Villas not playing the most i watch is edited editions of other matches, I am hard pressed to bother watching England games.
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I am not sure why the players of the cunty 6 are being let off with them offering "Nothing to do with us Guv". Surely their huge salaries and agents fees are the reason these clubs are so much in the financial shit and need to create new cash streams
That is in no way condoning the breakaway, far from it, i just think its a bit rich (no pun intended) that the players think they are all just pawns in this circus.
Is the plan not to leave the PL but just create a new format midweek for themselves and boycott the Chumps league?
They need the ultimatum of one or the other - no way both even with a huge compromise. Genuine football fans will not forget this so they best go
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Politicians will fight an election on this sort of thing.
I'd be more than happy if they were booted out permanently. Our league structure would be fine.
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Looks like Boris is going to war on this one, he, of course, will realise that virtually the whole nation is against this move. I really don't get it, if Villas not playing the most i watch is edited editions of other matches, I am hard pressed to bother watching England games.
He must be fucking ecstatic this has happened. Another issue that he can show his ‘passion’ for where a majority opinion is already in place. He has nothing to lose by sticking his fucking snout in this.
Sorry...don’t want to bring politics into something that is already shit.
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FIFA president being pretty clear.
https://youtu.be/iULk6gtWvoE
Thats all he needs to say and then stick with it.
The lawyers are loving this.
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Looks like Boris is going to war on this one, he, of course, will realise that virtually the whole nation is against this move. I really don't get it, if Villas not playing the most i watch is edited editions of other matches, I am hard pressed to bother watching England games.
He must be fucking ecstatic this has happened. Another issue that he can show his ‘passion’ for where a majority opinion is already in place. He has nothing to lose by sticking his fucking snout in this.
Sorry...don’t want to bring politics into something that is already shit.
It absolutely is a place to bring politics into it, and for all that politicians of all parties have helped facilitate the state the game is in today (and the Tories more than most), if Johnson's shameless pandering turns out to be useful here then that would be a fine advantage.
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From Guardian:
“If Boris Johnson is so minded,” says Geof Walker, “he only needs to bring forward a short bill banning any football in England other than matches organised by the FA. Such laws are already in place in France and Germany.
Anyone know if it is true those laws exist in France and Germany? Maybe that explains why Bayern München and PSG did not join.
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Hopefully the greedy 6 get banned from Europe next season and 10th place will be enough to qualify for the Champions League!
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I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
Juventus attract insane levels of support in southern Italy for some reason, but surprisingly less of it around Turin
The Stadio Delle Alpi (dump that it was) held 67k and was hardly ever more than half full. When they rebuilt it they reduced the capacity to 42 or so (I think).
If they played their home games in a 67k stadium somewhere like Bari, for example, they'd probably fill it week in, week out.
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I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
Juventus attract insane levels of support in southern Italy for some reason, but surprisingly less of it around Turin
The Stadio Delle Alpi (dump that it was) held 67k and was hardly ever more than half full. When they rebuilt it they reduced the capacity to 42 or so (I think).
If they played their home games in a 67k stadium somewhere like Bari, for example, they'd probably fill it week in, week out.
I think they just built a brand new stadium didn't they? I think the delle Alpi is still going to rack and ruin.
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I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
Juventus attract insane levels of support in southern Italy for some reason, but surprisingly less of it around Turin
The Stadio Delle Alpi (dump that it was) held 67k and was hardly ever more than half full. When they rebuilt it they reduced the capacity to 42 or so (I think).
If they played their home games in a 67k stadium somewhere like Bari, for example, they'd probably fill it week in, week out.
The same people I suspect who vote for Salvini in Calabria.
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I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
Juventus attract insane levels of support in southern Italy for some reason, but surprisingly less of it around Turin
The Stadio Delle Alpi (dump that it was) held 67k and was hardly ever more than half full. When they rebuilt it they reduced the capacity to 42 or so (I think).
If they played their home games in a 67k stadium somewhere like Bari, for example, they'd probably fill it week in, week out.
The same people I suspect who vote for Salvini in Calabria.
How are they less successful? In terms of European Cups and Champions League, yes. But they've won Serie A 36 times compared to 18 a piece for Inter and Milan.
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The people behind this scheme are the people that call it soccer. Perhaps they have never really grasped why clubs have F.C after their name.
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Even if this does not go ahead, there needs to be consequences for those who pulled this stunt.
And their inclusion of Spurs, a club who have won SFA in their history, was the ultimate insult to illustrious clubs all over Europe.
Completely agree.
They have exposed themselves for the greedy, self serving ****** they are and have shown the rest of football they don’t give a fuck about them.
According to Sky News, Spurs have the biggest debt, something approaching £900m.
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I think to a certain degree this is about making a move to have dominant market in Asia - basketball is big and I think this is a low-moral way of going about it for 'some' football. Sadly I think this will be a trend as everyone's after a potential new audience of > 1.5billion people.
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Not at four in the morning, they aren't. It's a midweek league.
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I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
Juventus attract insane levels of support in southern Italy for some reason, but surprisingly less of it around Turin
The Stadio Delle Alpi (dump that it was) held 67k and was hardly ever more than half full. When they rebuilt it they reduced the capacity to 42 or so (I think).
If they played their home games in a 67k stadium somewhere like Bari, for example, they'd probably fill it week in, week out.
The same people I suspect who vote for Salvini in Calabria.
How are they less successful? In terms of European Cups and Champions League, yes. But they've won Serie A 36 times compared to 18 a piece for Inter and Milan.
Ronaldo (the Portuguese poncey one) has boosted their popularity no end in Asia, I always imagined Juve or the 'Old Lady' were popular due to FIAT and the Agnelli family ownership.
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Viewing figures are interesting... in the UK a top PL match (shown on Sky) will struggle to get 1million viewers... globally it's harder to measure, but estimates of 20million worldwide would be a fair idea.
In season 2 or 3 of the Axis of Evil Exhibition League, what would 11th placed Spurs get vs 12th Arsenal - played in Bejing?
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What about viewing figures for the current CL or Europa cup games?
Isn’t that going to be a better comparison?
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Ronaldo (the Portuguese poncey one)
veering off massively. Imagine being a 20-year-old buck-toothed Ronaldo and being told you were on course to be the greatest player ever. And now, barely 25 years later, you're not even the first footballer people most people think of when they hear your name.
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The new one is on the same site as the Delle Alpi.
I can never understand why Juve attract so many gloryhunters when they're far less successful than the Milan clubs.
Juventus attract insane levels of support in southern Italy for some reason, but surprisingly less of it around Turin
The Stadio Delle Alpi (dump that it was) held 67k and was hardly ever more than half full. When they rebuilt it they reduced the capacity to 42 or so (I think).
If they played their home games in a 67k stadium somewhere like Bari, for example, they'd probably fill it week in, week out.
I think they just built a brand new stadium didn't they? I think the delle Alpi is still going to rack and ruin.
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The Premier League have released a statement...
The Premier League, alongside The FA, met with clubs today to discuss the immediate implications of the Super League proposal.
The 14 clubs at the meeting unanimously and vigorously rejected the plans for the competition. The Premier League is considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing, as well as holding those shareholders involved to account under its rules.
The League will continue to work with key stakeholders including fan groups, government, Uefa, The FA, EFL, PFA and LMA to protect the best interests of the game and call on those clubs involved in the proposed competition to cease their involvement immediately.
The Premier League would like to thank fans and all stakeholders for the support they have shown this week on this significant issue. The reaction proves just how much our open pyramid and football community means to people.
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What about viewing figures for the current CL or Europa cup games?
Isn’t that going to be a better comparison?
They're woeful, as you'd expect from games played in the wrong timezone. That's why teams like Barcelona have moaned that they should be playing CL games at the weekend for years.
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Looks like Boris is going to war on this one, he, of course, will realise that virtually the whole nation is against this move. I really don't get it, if Villas not playing the most i watch is edited editions of other matches, I am hard pressed to bother watching England games.
He must be fucking ecstatic this has happened. Another issue that he can show his ‘passion’ for where a majority opinion is already in place. He has nothing to lose by sticking his fucking snout in this.
Sorry...don’t want to bring politics into something that is already shit.
It absolutely is a place to bring politics into it, and for all that politicians of all parties have helped facilitate the state the game is in today (and the Tories more than most), if Johnson's shameless pandering turns out to be useful here then that would be a fine advantage.
There is a danger that our genuine love and concern for the game could be turned into another populist trope to divert people away from the chumocracy and sleaze which pours off this Tory government in a deluge. They are past masters - along with numerous authoritarians and autocrats around the world - at the '3D' strategy: distract, divert and divide (in the name of 'populism') to maintain their grubby grip on excessive wealth, power and privileges.
Remember, the credentials of our own master of misdirection was best summarised by a fellow reporter from Johnson's chequered journalistic days: "He breathes. He lies." Oh, and we shouldn't forget, it's Al/Alex for his chums and 'Boris' for us oiks.
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FIFA president being pretty clear.
https://youtu.be/iULk6gtWvoE
I'm happy with that. I don't like him but he's absolutely right in this, they can't leave the 'restrictions' of the current structure for business reasons and then expect to be allowed to stay for sporting ones.
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This made me laugh:
https://twitter.com/Exploding_Heads/status/1384457340057964544
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Most fans are bored with the current CL with 6 group stage games.
The new CL format agreed yesterday increased group stage games to 9 - I think.
And the proposed ESL is 18 - I think.
A total fucking snooze fest. I don’t bother anymore with CL games unless it’s the knock out stages and its an exciting looking second leg. Hardly anyone will bother watching 18 groups games.
So if it goes ahead (which it wont for English clubs as we will not let them stay in the PL) then you will see it crash and burn.
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This made me laugh:
https://twitter.com/Exploding_Heads/status/1384457340057964544
Very good, and the interviewee still talked more sense than the Real Madrid President.
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If ‘the big 6’ fuck off (which they must now), football will be weird for a while.
But, it will soon become the ‘new normal’ and the competition to win the PL, or to qualify for the CL or to do well in the cups will still be there and will intensify as time goes on.
Football cannot be so beholden to this bunch of mercenaries that think the world will end if they fuck off.
They are not bigger than the game itself.
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Think it would be a fascinating title race, between say:-
Villa
Everton
Leeds
Leicester
Southampton
West Ham
Wolves
Throw in a surprise like Brighton if they can get a striker and maybe Newcastle if they get bought out.
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I think what would be interesting is if all the current threats against the ESL players do come to pass, how many would still want to play for the money rather then the honour. How many cricketers and other sportsmen played in SA for the money back in the day for example?
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If ‘the big 6’ fuck off (which they must now), football will be weird for a while.
But, it will soon become the ‘new normal’ and the competition to win the PL, or to qualify for the CL or to do well in the cups will still be there and will intensify as time goes on.
Football cannot be so beholden to this bunch of mercenaries that think the world will end if they fuck off.
They are not bigger than the game itself.
Be nice to think they would fuck off into obscurity and just become part of history but dont think it's going to happen unless any contracts have already been signed.
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If ‘the big 6’ fuck off (which they must now), football will be weird for a while.
But, it will soon become the ‘new normal’ and the competition to win the PL, or to qualify for the CL or to do well in the cups will still be there and will intensify as time goes on.
Football cannot be so beholden to this bunch of mercenaries that think the world will end if they fuck off.
They are not bigger than the game itself.
Be nice to think they would fuck off into obscurity and just become part of history but dont think it's going to happen unless any contracts have already been signed.
Apparently all 12 have signed binding 23 (yes 23) year contracts with no escape without the others’ approval.
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A few thoughts on the current mess:
- The PL are not the good guys. They colluded with the membership of the First Division and promised more money (first from Sky) and more control of the game and they have consistently sought to concentrate wealth and power in the 'top clubs'. The ESL, is just the PL on steroids.
- It might be that rather than being serious about creating the ESL, this was just an attempt to wrestle even more more power and a greater share of the money - and they have simply overplayed their hand. In which case they should be very heavily punished.
- The owners of the 'big 6' look to the NFL as their model. So rather than seeking to stop the creation of the ESL, why not move it on to the next stage - recognition that these 'super clubs' are money-making franchises.
They should not participate in English football and the respective local authorities should not give them a license to operate their grounds.
They can simply relocate to locations most appropriate to the intended 'customer base' - presumably for Citeh and Arsenal that would the UAE (Emirates) and the others dotted around China. Matches can be played when they suit their TV audiences and presumably there would be an endless supply of people to fill the grounds.
I imagine the Chinese Government can knock up a replica of Old Trafford and Anfield in a fortnight.
Fuck 'em all. UTV.
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If ‘the big 6’ fuck off (which they must now), football will be weird for a while.
But, it will soon become the ‘new normal’ and the competition to win the PL, or to qualify for the CL or to do well in the cups will still be there and will intensify as time goes on.
Football cannot be so beholden to this bunch of mercenaries that think the world will end if they fuck off.
They are not bigger than the game itself.
Be nice to think they would fuck off into obscurity and just become part of history but dont think it's going to happen unless any contracts have already been signed.
Apparently all 12 have signed binding 23 (yes 23) year contracts with no escape without the others’ approval.
Really? Where did you see that? Crazy stuff if they have.
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If ‘the big 6’ fuck off (which they must now), football will be weird for a while.
But, it will soon become the ‘new normal’ and the competition to win the PL, or to qualify for the CL or to do well in the cups will still be there and will intensify as time goes on.
Football cannot be so beholden to this bunch of mercenaries that think the world will end if they fuck off.
They are not bigger than the game itself.
Be nice to think they would fuck off into obscurity and just become part of history but dont think it's going to happen unless any contracts have already been signed.
Apparently all 12 have signed binding 23 (yes 23) year contracts with no escape without the others’ approval.
Really? Where did you see that? Crazy stuff if they have.
I've seen reputable journos saying there are no binding contracts.
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From Guardian:
“If Boris Johnson is so minded,” says Geof Walker, “he only needs to bring forward a short bill banning any football in England other than matches organised by the FA. Such laws are already in place in France and Germany.
Anyone know if it is true those laws exist in France and Germany? Maybe that explains why Bayern München and PSG did not join.
You'd no doubt get some zealous cops arresting people for playing in the park. :-)
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If ‘the big 6’ fuck off (which they must now), football will be weird for a while.
But, it will soon become the ‘new normal’ and the competition to win the PL, or to qualify for the CL or to do well in the cups will still be there and will intensify as time goes on.
Football cannot be so beholden to this bunch of mercenaries that think the world will end if they fuck off.
They are not bigger than the game itself.
Be nice to think they would fuck off into obscurity and just become part of history but dont think it's going to happen unless any contracts have already been signed.
Neither do I nor do I think it's necessarily desirable in the long-term as they would then set up their own league which would detract from the PL. This opportunity should however be used to level the playing field if possible.
I would let them stay but with revised watertight and fairer contracts wrt the PL. Also penalties should be applied along the lines of
1) Points deductions for all 6 for 3 seasons say 12 points or 12,9,6 points.
2) Banned from the FA and League Cups for 3 seasons.
3) Banned from Europe for 3 seasons.
-
A few thoughts on the current mess:
- The PL are not the good guys. They colluded with the membership of the First Division and promised more money (first from Sky) and more control of the game and they have consistently sought to concentrate wealth and power in the 'top clubs'. The ESL, is just the PL on steroids.
- It might be that rather than being serious about creating the ESL, this was just an attempt to wrestle even more more power and a greater share of the money - and they have simply overplayed their hand. In which case they should be very heavily punished.
- The owners of the 'big 6' look to the NFL as their model. So rather than seeking to stop the creation of the ESL, why not move it on to the next stage - recognition that these 'super clubs' are money-making franchises.
They should not participate in English football and the respective local authorities should not give them a license to operate their grounds.
They can simply relocate to locations most appropriate to the intended 'customer base' - presumably for Citeh and Arsenal that would the UAE (Emirates) and the others dotted around China. Matches can be played when they suit their TV audiences and presumably there would be an endless supply of people to fill the grounds.
I imagine the Chinese Government can knock up a replica of Old Trafford and Anfield in a fortnight.
Fuck 'em all. UTV.[/list]
I think Anfield and Old Trafford would fit into the Wuhan wet fish market with space to allow for expansion
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It wouldn't be so unbelievable. We're talking about people who have managed to take control of clubs with revenues in the billions and saddle them with mountains of debt.
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Some light relief...
https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/why-we-represent-the-average-football-fan-by-bozza-and-willy-20210420207320 (https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/why-we-represent-the-average-football-fan-by-bozza-and-willy-20210420207320)
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Bayern Munich, who are the current holders of the Uefa Champions League, have released the following statement in the last hour:
FC Bayern Munich takes a closed position on the Super League. President Herbert Hainer says: “Our members and fans reject a Super League. It is our wish as FC Bayern and our goal that the European clubs live this wonderful and emotional Champions League competition and develop it together with UEFA. FC Bayern says no to the Super League. "
The chairman of the board Karl-Heinz Rummenigge confirms: “On behalf of the board I can expressly state that FC Bayern does not take part in the Super League. FC Bayern stands in solidarity with the Bundesliga. It was and is always a great pleasure for us to be able to play as the German representative in the Champions League. We all still fondly remember our Champions League victory in Lisbon in 2020, such a happy moment is never forgotten.For FC Bayern, the Champions League is the best club competition in the world. "
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If ‘the big 6’ fuck off (which they must now), football will be weird for a while.
But, it will soon become the ‘new normal’ and the competition to win the PL, or to qualify for the CL or to do well in the cups will still be there and will intensify as time goes on.
Football cannot be so beholden to this bunch of mercenaries that think the world will end if they fuck off.
They are not bigger than the game itself.
Be nice to think they would fuck off into obscurity and just become part of history but dont think it's going to happen unless any contracts have already been signed.
Apparently all 12 have signed binding 23 (yes 23) year contracts with no escape without the others’ approval.
Really? Where did you see that? Crazy stuff if they have.
It’s from an Australian daily newspaper website but I’ve seen it somewhere else but can’t remember where - possibly the DT
“There are signed agreements — 23-year contracts”, the source said. “This is categorically not a bargaining chip. I can see why people might come to the conclusion but I am happy to correct it. This is proper, it’s happening.”
JP Morgan, the US investment bank, confirmed that it was financing the new league, which will hand an initial £3bn ($5.4bn) to the founding clubs. It declined to elaborate or explain how the deal was structured or funded.“
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Sky not involved. Amazon Prime not involved either. Nothing from BT Sport yet I don't think.
The longer this goes on, the more I think the fit and proper person test will be revamped.
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Bayern Munich, who are the current holders of the Uefa Champions League, have released the following statement in the last hour:
FC Bayern Munich takes a closed position on the Super League. President Herbert Hainer says: “Our members and fans reject a Super League. It is our wish as FC Bayern and our goal that the European clubs live this wonderful and emotional Champions League competition and develop it together with UEFA. FC Bayern says no to the Super League. "
The chairman of the board Karl-Heinz Rummenigge confirms: “On behalf of the board I can expressly state that FC Bayern does not take part in the Super League. FC Bayern stands in solidarity with the Bundesliga. It was and is always a great pleasure for us to be able to play as the German representative in the Champions League. We all still fondly remember our Champions League victory in Lisbon in 2020, such a happy moment is never forgotten.For FC Bayern, the Champions League is the best club competition in the world. "
Brilliant.
The 6 (12) are looking more and more like the pariahs they are with every passing minute.
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Bayern Munich and FC Porto have shown great integrity.
I would love it if one or two of the 'twelve' had second thoughts and left the others high and dry. Then, as I said earlier, all should face severe punishments.
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Seems like there's a bit of a gap between the evil bastards who bought the clubs as sportswashing playthings (PSG, City, Chelsea) and the evil bastards who bought the clubs for pure extraction (United, Arsenal, Milan clubs).
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Seems like there's a bit of a gap between the evil bastards who bought the clubs as sportswashing playthings (PSG, City, Chelsea) and the evil bastards who bought the clubs for pure extraction (United, Arsenal, Milan clubs).
Yep. To be honest, I was a little surprised by Man City, they've never seemed intent on the money, they've enjoyed spending it and have done some really great development work in their city too. And they just seemed to want success. The red part of Manchester, however, seem wholly different.
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I can't quite decide whether to laugh or cry at Wolves' Tweet about being Premier League Champions 2018/19.....
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Just think. The big 6 ( fingers down throat) will now be begging Kiddy Harriers for pre season friendlies just so they can play in this country.
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The first 5 mins of Smiths presser are the best I’ve heard him speak.
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I can't quite decide whether to laugh or cry at Wolves' Tweet about being Premier League Champions 2018/19.....
It was quite amusing, but a bloke called Stephen Mackie pointed out that if you exclude them from the table you also need to elimiate all of their results. If you do that the list of winners looks like this:
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/fd0b3414f3223220fd474417958ba4df83d29687/0_0_971_861/master/971.jpg?width=620&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=cda9083dc31e6ea2b2ad84f45d0a14c2)
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Deano having his say currently on Sky.
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Deano having his say currently on Sky.
spoke very well
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I can't quite decide whether to laugh or cry at Wolves' Tweet about being Premier League Champions 2018/19.....
It's brilliant. I saw an alternative Premier League winners list with the scab six removed and we won it three times...
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Roma have denounced it, which in terms of money and supporters is a big deal in Italy.
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Deano having his say currently on Sky.
spoke very well
Just heard him on Talksport.
Jack will still be out for a while apparently, though... :(
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I can't quite decide whether to laugh or cry at Wolves' Tweet about being Premier League Champions 2018/19.....
It was quite amusing, but a bloke called Stephen Mackie pointed out that if you exclude them from the table you also need to elimiate all of their results. If you do that the list of winners looks like this:
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/fd0b3414f3223220fd474417958ba4df83d29687/0_0_971_861/master/971.jpg?width=620&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=cda9083dc31e6ea2b2ad84f45d0a14c2)
Awesome
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Norwich winning the League with a +2 goal difference.
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Deano having his say currently on Sky.
spoke very well
Yeah, he did. He really has a strong grasp of the possibilities of football, that a third division team can win the European Cup within 11 years, for example.
A European Super League kills that for ever.
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Deano having his say currently on Sky.
spoke very well
Yeah, he did. He really has a strong grasp of the possibilities of football, that a third division team can win the European Cup within 11 years, for example.
A European Super League kills that for ever.
Very impressive from Deano
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Deano having his say currently on Sky.
spoke very well
Yeah, he did. He really has a strong grasp of the possibilities of football, that a third division team can win the European Cup within 11 years, for example.
A European Super League kills that for ever.
Dean Smith the first manager to nail it.
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Loved the respect in his voice for other clubs too. Real nailed the solidarity home
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A European Super League kills that for ever.
I don't think it does, necessarily. Best case scenario: it opens up the field for more teams, more surprises and more reasons to compete. As long as they fuck off and can't be involved in any other competitions, I've come to the conclusion that I'd be glad to see them go.
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Sky not involved. Amazon Prime not involved either. Nothing from BT Sport yet I don't think.
The longer this goes on, the more I think the fit and proper person test will be revamped.
They want to sell their own rights. I think they have ever since the early days of the big tv deals and they had their noses put out of joint by having to share the spoils with their fellow competitors. As Gary Neville said, if they can get 150 million people worldwide to pay just a quid to watch a manure match on mutv, that's suddenly unbelievably lucrative.
Regular fans in the ground? They don't spend money. Better to flog that seat at full whack to a football tourist who'll also blow a ton in the club shop.
When it comes to generating the big bucks, we as domestic 'consumers' are now a hindrance to their ambitions, whether that be in the ground or with our cute little digital telly subscriptions.
Football has bent over backwards in trying to appease these greedy wankers over the last thirty years for fear of them fucking off. It's time to let them go. Remember the olden days when chairmen lived in mortal dread of televised football because nobody would turn up? Look how that went. I think we're at a similar juncture. Club football still matters to millions upon millions. There's more of us than there are of them. Ftf.
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Yep, I agree. I'd also add that the gloryhunters will just move on to the next successful club when the rest just turn dull.
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Agree with most of what has been said. They can fuck off.
I have one club : The mighty villa.
As a french bloke may i add that when i came to Birmingham in 1983 I knew of Villa but Villa chose me. How else could it have been?
UTV.
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Norwich winning the League with a +2 goal difference.
I'm gutted we still haven't managed to win that season. Fuck sake...we doubled Arsenal and Liverpool and took four points off Yanited. Keir Curle helped us beat Citeh at VP
I'm guessing Norwich did shite in those fixtures and better than us in the other games (as well as beating us twice. They surely were the Ipswich'81 of their day).
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Say what you like about sickbeggar, but he's the reason I get to read the name 'Keir Curle'.
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I loved what Deano said this as to be stopped.
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The way this is going, football's going to end up like darts, with competing championships.
Spurs could be the new Crafty Cockneys.
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The way this is going, football's going to end up like darts, with competing championships.
Spurs could be the new Crafty Cockneys.
Liverpool could be The Lime Street Cowboys.
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The way this is going, football's going to end up like darts, with competing championships.
Spurs could be the new Crafty Cockneys.
Crafty c****$ more like
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The way this is going, football's going to end up like darts, with competing championships.
Spurs could be the new Crafty Cockneys.
The London Silly Nannies
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Sky not involved. Amazon Prime not involved either. Nothing from BT Sport yet I don't think.
The longer this goes on, the more I think the fit and proper person test will be revamped.
They want to sell their own rights. I think they have ever since the early days of the big tv deals and they had their noses put out of joint by having to share the spoils with their fellow competitors. As Gary Neville said, if they can get 150 million people worldwide to pay just a quid to watch a manure match on mutv, that's suddenly unbelievably lucrative.
Regular fans in the ground? They don't spend money. Better to flog that seat at full whack to a football tourist who'll also blow a ton in the club shop.
When it comes to generating the big bucks, we as domestic 'consumers' are now a hindrance to their ambitions, whether that be in the ground or with our cute little digital telly subscriptions.
Football has bent over backwards in trying to appease these greedy wankers over the last thirty years for fear of them fucking off. It's time to let them go. Remember the olden days when chairmen lived in mortal dread of televised football because nobody would turn up? Look how that went. I think we're at a similar juncture. Club football still matters to millions upon millions. There's more of us than there are of them. Ftf.
It misses a key point though. The fans in the ground creates the atmosphere that can drive players on to get the best out of them and makes games more entertaining. We've not had that for more than a year now and it's very much missed. If this trend continued to the point that there were millions watching around the world but empty or near empty stadiums, it would damage the product and viewing figures would gradually fall away over time. It's so short-sighted, it's ridiculous.
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Is it bad that I'm finding all this very entertaining even exciting
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To us, it matters who's in the seats. To them, it doesn't. Sooner a gibbering cheering scarf waving simpleton of a tourist on a spending spree at his favorite sports franchise than a curmudgeon in on a discounted season ticket who spends his time bemoaning offsides and their matchday cash in the pub and at a burger van. These clubs have played in vacuous arenas for years now.
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From Guardian:
“If Boris Johnson is so minded,” says Geof Walker, “he only needs to bring forward a short bill banning any football in England other than matches organised by the FA. Such laws are already in place in France and Germany.
Anyone know if it is true those laws exist in France and Germany? Maybe that explains why Bayern München and PSG did not join.
You'd no doubt get some zealous cops arresting people for playing in the park. :-)
"Jumpers for goal posts...... is not official FA rules, you all have to come down the station."
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Is it bad that I'm finding all this very entertaining even exciting
I do as well, to an extent.
It would be cathartic to tell the Cunty 6 to do one. Particularly the Redscouse and Man U. And from a pure sporting perspective, there looks to be the obvious upside that Villa would be in the group of title challengers again and European fixtures against the best in France, Germany, Portugal et al would still be on the table.
But against that is the prospect that Sky and the other broadcasters see less value in ourselves, Everton, West Ham or whoever being the flagship clubs in the new order and adjust (ie drastically cut) the TV deals accordingly.
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Is it bad that I'm finding all this very entertaining even exciting
I'm finding it all rather engrossing and reckon we now have a huge opportunity to smash the cartel that has been allowed to emerge over the past couple of decades. It's vital this moment isn't wasted.
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I guess that's the other worry for me. Back in MON's days I remember reading with sobriety, the accounts and turnover of the club - finding out that 90% of our turnover was spent on player wages. TV deals are surely the main income for most clubs in the Championship and upwards. How devastating would it be to all clubs if the next TV deal was drastically lower - just because the Asian favourites weren't on the show anymore?
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The Spanish banker who created this reckons they will pump EUR 400M into the leagues and put an end to "madness" of big money transfers. I'm not sure how lower transfer fees help those outside the ESL as I assume they are then poaching our player as we scramble to make ends meet.
Bunch of bankers (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/20/european-super-league-will-pour-400m-into-grassroots-football-says-new-chief)
It seems Morgan Stanley didn't tell Javid or Umunna first. Umunna leads their environmental and social responsibility governance work in Europe apparantly.
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Reports in Italy that Roma and Napoli might be invited, and I'm pretty certain they'd accept - Roma have American owners, and De Laurentiis at Napoli is a corrupt fuck who's wanted to be in something like this since Berlusconi mooted it three decades ago.
https://www.asroma.com/en/news/2021/4/statement-from-the-club
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Chelsea fans have blocked the team bus from getting to Stamford Bridge!
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Reports in Italy that Roma and Napoli might be invited, and I'm pretty certain they'd accept - Roma have American owners, and De Laurentiis at Napoli is a corrupt fuck who's wanted to be in something like this since Berlusconi mooted it three decades ago.
https://www.asroma.com/en/news/2021/4/statement-from-the-club
Yep, mentioned it myself a few pages ago. Unexpected and great news - it seems Juve were hoping to bribe them in to give the thing more legitimacy (Agnelli actually mentioned Roma being out of the CL after one bad year and replaced by Atalanta as why football is actually Bad now).
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Chelsea supposedly getting ready to withdraw from ESL.
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This won't exactly alleviate the anger towards FSG on Merseyside.
https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-shankly-statue-should-be-removed-if-liverpool-join-esl-legends-family-says-12281422
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Chelsea, always liked em, great bunch of lads.
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The Spanish banker who created this reckons they will pump EUR 400M into the leagues and put an end to "madness" of big money transfers. I'm not sure how lower transfer fees help those outside the ESL as I assume they are then poaching our player as we scramble to make ends meet.
Bunch of bankers (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/20/european-super-league-will-pour-400m-into-grassroots-football-says-new-chief)
It seems Morgan Stanley didn't tell Javid or Umunna first. Umunna leads their environmental and social responsibility governance work in Europe apparantly.
All this new money coming in and the agents won't be trying to get their own (and maybe their clients) cut? Transfer fees are literally climbing with the money being pumped in from TV and league deals and a sudden £4 billion appearing from no where will stop in both the ESL and the leagues they are leaving behind? Just shows the crap that these people are using to justify this.
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Chelsea fans have blocked the team bus from getting to Stamford Bridge!
If you’d have said 72 hours ago, I’d have upmost respect for Patrick Bamford, Leeds United, Jose Mourinho and Chelsea fans, I’d have said you was mad. But here we are.
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Fair play to Chelsea: probably seen the fan protests on Sky outside their ground. Man City & Spurs look like following suit.
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Crawling back like fucking rats.
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Scab
Six Five. Your move, Man City.
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I see a (cash) friendly Spanish judge has rules against UEFA and FIFA to stop them making threats or following through on threats to stop the ESL. How can a Judge in one country sanction European and World Wide organisations? Any help Legal Eagles?
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Chelsea fans have blocked the team bus from getting to Stamford Bridge!
If you’d have said 72 hours ago, I’d have upmost respect for Patrick Bamford, Leeds United, Jose Mourinho and Chelsea fans, I’d have said you was mad. But here we are.
Although there are conflicting reports on his leaving so I would leave him out at the moment maybe.
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Crawling back like fucking rats.
Hoping we’d forget no doubt.
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Scab Six Five. Your move, Man City.
Surely they'll follow, and then surely that's it. The sheer financial power of those plus PSG and Bayern will be overwhelming.
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Scab Six Five. Your move, Man City.
Surely they won't want to face the wrath of fans in B6 tomorrow evening.
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If the Spurs fans follow Chelsea fans behaviours and block the coach but Gareth Bale is on there, do they fall foul on the new law on Statues and protests?
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Crawling back like fucking rats.
Hoping we’d forget no doubt.
Never forget.
And never forgive!
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Crawling back like fucking rats.
Yup I think they should still face some form of punishment.
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The beginning of the end. Back to normal by the end of the week.
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Ha, it's unravelling already.
Shame, I hoped they'd go and leave the rest to it. Though perhaps this will reduce their influence even further. Wankers.
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Sky and Beeb reporting that Chelsea are preparing docs to withdraw from the ESL.
They thought they were joining the EDL.
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Citeh too now.
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I see a (cash) friendly Spanish judge has rules against UEFA and FIFA to stop them making threats or following through on threats to stop the ESL. How can a Judge in one country sanction European and World Wide organisations? Any help Legal Eagles?
Apparently it’s just the equivalent of our interim injunctions pending a full hearing
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It’s the end unless wankers like the Glazers want to keep Man U in and play week vs Real Madrid. That’s who will be left now that one team has pulled out.
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And supposedly Atletico Madrid and Barcelona....
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It’ll just be Arsenal and Spurs left at this rate.
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It’ll just be Arsenal and Spurs left at this rate.
There's probably a downside to that I don't see.
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If they all bottle it can manu just be expelled.
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It’ll just be Arsenal and Spurs left at this rate.
There's probably a downside to that I don't see.
Well we’d lose the 6 points off arsenal.
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Wolves have just pulled out too.
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Yeah, typical Arsenal fuck off just as we've started beating them.
Can someone invite Brentford, please?
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It’s the end unless wankers like the Glazers want to keep Man U in and play week vs Real Madrid. That’s who will be left now that one team has pulled out.
I think it could almost be the end of Real Madrid
I’m sure the rest of the EPL will allow the 6 to stay in the league.....after the appropriate points deductions
Any advance on 12?
Do I hear 15 in the corner?
18 from the front row
All done?
Going once
Going twice
Sold to the gentleman in the front row with the replica Villa shirt
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Sky and Beeb reporting that Chelsea are preparing docs to withdraw from the ESL.
They thought they were joining the EDL.
Well done Roman seen sense at last
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15 points.
Banned from Europe for 2 years.
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The whole thing is finished. Football fans along with the governing bodies and government to be fair have told them all to fuck off. The damage is done though. They showed their cards, a pair of 3’s and got Royal flushed out.
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I'm willing to give them credit for leaving if their statement is okay. It has to say that they won't ever consider supporting any change that doesn't have the support of the clubs throughout the structure and of fans. If they apologise and say that then I'll say fair enough, people are entitled to make mistakes.
If they make some statement that they have left but still want changes .. bla bla .. UEFA so unfair .. bla bla they can get fucked.
I think the reason they provide for leaving will be vital in deciding whether people see them as reluctant scumbags who saw sense, or devious bastards who feel like they have been forced to abandon their nefarious plans against their will.
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Been a fun couple of days
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Special punishment for Spurs and City: kick them out
of Sunday's final, expunge last year's winners, and the trophy awarded to the runners-up on that occasion!
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This is making up for a shit deadline day for Jim White
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They must, still, face punishments. They must not be allowed to go back to business as usual after giving two fingers to us all.
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Man City out, too.
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I think it could almost be the end of Real Madrid
I’m sure the rest of the EPL will allow the 6 to stay in the league.....after the appropriate points deductions
Totally agree they need to be punished.
Like a cheating spouse you can save the marriage but those who have strayed should expect serious repercussions and a lengthy spell in the doghouse.
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There simply has to be a punishment now. It cannot be glossed over like it didn’t happen. Because if not they will do it again.
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They must, still, face punishments. They must not be allowed to go back to business as usual after giving two fingers to us all.
This. Absolutely this. Things can’t just go back to normal after what they’ve just tried to do.
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Like rats leaving a sinking ship
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Chelsea and Manchester City announce that they will not join the breakaway league.
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They should not let the ‘super 6’ have a say in any premier league votes for the next few years. Let Norwich, Palace and Burnley vote in all sorts of mad shit.
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Wonder if the greedy 6 will still be punished?
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As usual it will be the lawyers who will benefit from this
It has been confirmed that all 12 signed a 23 year binding contract
No one could leave without the consent of the others or face claims for damages that could be hundreds of millions
So will Chelsea now face the risk of £Ms of damages?
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Falling apart quicker than an MFI kitchen.
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They all need to start next season on -30 points and a 2 year European ban...minimum.
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There simply has to be a punishment now. It cannot be glossed over like it didn’t happen. Because if not they will do it again.
I have been as against this breakaway league as anyone but surely you can't punish teams when they haven't gone through with anything.
Christian Purslow seems to have called it bang on the button in his interview on 5Live on Sunday. He was pretty adamant it wouldn't happen.
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And then there were 4. The traditional 4.
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RIP European Super League
April 19th - April 20th 2021
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I remember when pundits, press, everybody United together in their condemnation of the laughing caveman who punched Jack Grealish in front of a nationwide TV audience.
They needed to be punished in the strongest possible terms was unanimously agreed.
We waited, waited and waited. Then they got a paltry little fine and it was all forgotten about.
That’s what will happen here.
Fans won’t forget, especially when we can get back in, but that will be it.
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There simply has to be a punishment now. It cannot be glossed over like it didn’t happen. Because if not they will do it again.
I have been as against this breakaway league as anyone but surely you can't punish teams when they haven't gone through anything.
Christian Purslow seems to have called it bang on the button in his interview on 5Live on Sunday. He was pretty adamant it wouldn't happen.
Er, they felt they were above playing against their 14 premier league partners. They were prepared to let the remaining 14 sink or swim. They signed legally binding contracts committing to a closed shop league in which they would never face relegation. They must have the book thrown at them. Points deductions, embargos, European bans. The lot. Zero tolerance.
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They all need to start next season on -30 points and a 2 year European ban...minimum.
I think the more suitable punishment is that all 6 forfeit home and away games 3-0 against the the Club who's owner introduced the corinthian League system based on competitiveness in English football.
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When you get a 'round of fucks from Dean Smith, it's wise to take heed.
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There simply has to be a punishment now. It cannot be glossed over like it didn’t happen. Because if not they will do it again.
I have been as against this breakaway league as anyone but surely you can't punish teams when they haven't gone through anything.
Christian Purslow seems to have called it bang on the button in his interview on 5Live on Sunday. He was pretty adamant it wouldn't happen.
They ran a covert operation behind the backs of the governing bodies to break away. That cannot be just brushed under the carpet. If you caught someone in bank about to rob it but just as he put his hand in the safe he decides not to, well he’s still in the bank. And he still wanted to rob it. You don’t let him go home.
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Irrespective of whether Arse, Spuds, 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' and ManU also pull out of the ESL, all 6 clubs need to be sanctioned to teach them a lesson.
The rest of the Prem and English football needs to show them who's in charge.
Time to look at a redistribution of tv and prize monies to make the league more equitable financially, thereby weakening these greedy bastards?
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What I don’t understand is the arrogance that the owners of the 12 clubs displayed in thinking they would be able to break away without challenge. Surely they sought legal advice and did feasibility studies to see if what they intended was even possible without any sanctions.
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RIP European Super League
April 19th - April 20th 2021
It gave the media a shot in the arm after the Prince Phillip fuss had died down. In years to come it will be occasionally spoken about as "Do you remember the time when......"
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They all need to start next season on -30 points and a 2 year European ban...minimum.
Make it minus 60, that way they will all have to amass league winning points (90+) just to stay up.
And most definitely a European ban.
My guess, though, is f*ck all will be done
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The delicious irony will be when Spurs are the only English club left and the master negotiator is trying to persuade JP Morgan to let them out of a multi-million dollar binding contract in exchange for a job lot of Mourinho merch.
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We all know how this pans out.
PL and FA say the clubs say they are sorry. The FA and PL say it’s not fair to punish players and fans so let’s draw a line under it and carry on.......you just know it.
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It would take the 14 clubs to push through a special resolution to punish them. I can not see it happening.
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Well, that went well didn’t it 😂 😂 😂 😂
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Wolves have just pulled out too.
brilliant 😂
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There simply has to be a punishment now. It cannot be glossed over like it didn’t happen. Because if not they will do it again.
I have been as against this breakaway league as anyone but surely you can't punish teams when they haven't gone through anything.
Christian Purslow seems to have called it bang on the button in his interview on 5Live on Sunday. He was pretty adamant it wouldn't happen.
Er, they felt they were above playing against their 14 premier league partners. They were prepared to let the remaining 14 sink or swim. They signed legally binding contracts committing to a closed shop league in which they would never face relegation. They must have the book thrown at them. Points deductions, embargos, European bans. The lot. Zero tolerance.
Well said.Huge points deduction and a loss of voting rights for attacking the viability of the league and European ban for undermining the Champions League.Stand up to these six clubs ,if not this will surface in a few years time with sweeteners for others to abandon the rest.
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This is not the end, they will be back.
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Come you you lot you know that they have been very clever in creating this fuss so that UEFA can push through the absolutely terrible restructuring without anyone noticing. Their job is done.
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European Super League executives drafting begging letters to Union Luxembourg, Fram Rejkjavik and Cowdenbeath as we speak.
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Difficult to see how the 6 could sit round a table with the other 14 as if nothing has happened. Trust has gone completely, so they have to have some kind of sanction to draw a line under it and be able to move on.
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Personally speaking I hope Man United and Liverpool stay in
I’ve always said we haven’t got a big 6 or big 4 but we have got a big 2
Those two are bigger than the rest of the premiership put together with all their millions of overseas fans
They are massive global brands not football clubs
I think it would be for the best if they fucked off to be honest
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Wouldn’t be completely shocked if a couple of the owners start looking for buyers after this.
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They all need to start next season on -30 points and a 2 year European ban...minimum.
Make it minus 60, that way they will all have to amass league winning points (90+) just to stay up.
And most definitely a European ban.
My guess, though, is f*ck all will be done
Norwich would still go down
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Not just scabs but cowardly scabs too.
They need to be punished. Everything is stacked in their favour and yet that still isn't enough for them based on their underhanded conniving ways.
F-ck them off and f-ck them up.
Whatever happens I hope fans of all other clubs never forget that these 6 clubs attempted to do them over.
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Part of me's disappointed. It was quite satisfying seeing those shitty clubs get absolutely shredded by the otherwise fawning press, and everyone else in the entire world.
Now they'll just get away with it, and probably end up with even more cash from UEFA into the bargain.
And Chelski and Man City are still c**ts for going along with it in the first place.
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Spurs crowned European Super League champions.
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Wouldn’t be completely shocked if a couple of the owners start looking for buyers after this.
When those 12 start suing the shit out of each other their clubs’ll be worth fuck all.
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We all know how this pans out.
PL and FA say the clubs say they are sorry. The FA and PL say it’s not fair to punish players and fans so let’s draw a line under it and carry on.......you just know it.
And the 6 will get the lions share of the £5.2b deal that UEFA is currently negotiating with Centricus Asset Management
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It's like the hokey cokey there in then they are out.
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Ed Woodward resigned?
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I’m laughing at the thought of the conversations going on behind the scenes. Utter ****** like Perez and Woodward just bricking it now it’s all falling apart. Begging the others to stay in it. Wankers
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Looks like our game with City is going ahead after all
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We all know how this pans out.
PL and FA say the clubs say they are sorry. The FA and PL say it’s not fair to punish players and fans so let’s draw a line under it and carry on.......you just know it.
And the 6 will get the lions share of the £5.2b deal that UEFA is currently negotiating with Centricus Asset Management
The fans won't forget once the crowds are back. Their players will get pelters!
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Seeing as they wanted to effectively ban other clubs from the Champions League for the next few years, that should be their punishment too. A 5 year ban from the Champions League for all of them. I do accept that as things stand that this isn't much of a punishment for Arsenal and Spurs.
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We all know how this pans out.
PL and FA say the clubs say they are sorry. The FA and PL say it’s not fair to punish players and fans so let’s draw a line under it and carry on.......you just know it.
And the 6 will get the lions share of the £5.2b deal that UEFA is currently negotiating with Centricus Asset Management
The fans won't forget once the crowds are back. Their players will get pelters!
It’s not their fault though.
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‘Manchester United fans deserve better ‘
Talk sport from which all truth emanates.
Woodward has gone, apparently. This is ‘disastrous’.
It’s better than the Archers at the moment. All they’ve got is Alice.
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And while all this went on over the past few days, the new Champions League restructure, for which this very thread was created, was pushed through. A new format to favour the big clubs. Anyone get the feeling this ESL was just a Trojan horse?
-
We all know how this pans out.
PL and FA say the clubs say they are sorry. The FA and PL say it’s not fair to punish players and fans so let’s draw a line under it and carry on.......you just know it.
And the 6 will get the lions share of the £5.2b deal that UEFA is currently negotiating with Centricus Asset Management
The fans won't forget once the crowds are back. Their players will get pelters!
I hope not but I think it will happen
I don’t think the players can be held accountable for the actions of the owners
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We all know how this pans out.
PL and FA say the clubs say they are sorry. The FA and PL say it’s not fair to punish players and fans so let’s draw a line under it and carry on.......you just know it.
And the 6 will get the lions share of the £5.2b deal that UEFA is currently negotiating with Centricus Asset Management
The fans won't forget once the crowds are back. Their players will get pelters!
It’s not their fault though.
Oh I know, but the whole affair will still be used against them, especially if playing away.
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A win for Man U fans with Woodward who they despised gone.
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Looks like our game with City is going ahead after all
We should still do the march out with the European Cup, though.
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Please god, can Real Madrid go bust? I’ve been ever so good this year.
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they'll always be the scum6 to me now.
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This is just kicking the can down the road, all these lot will be back because their thirst for more power and money cannot be quenched, fuck all will happen to any of them, just hope all fans remember these 12 clubs and what they stand for.
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(https://i.ibb.co/9nXKrRQ/56gl3h.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9nXKrRQ)
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This is just kicking the can down the road, all these lot will be back because their thirst for more power and money cannot be quenched, fuck all will happen to any of them, just hope all fans remember these 12 clubs and what they stand for.
If the leagues and UEFA etc have anything about them, they'll take the opportunity to massively tighten things up, and amend their constituions now so that it can't happen again. Any threat to join or create a new league and it's instant expulsion from the current league.
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This is just kicking the can down the road, all these lot will be back because their thirst for more power and money cannot be quenched, fuck all will happen to any of them, just hope all fans remember these 12 clubs and what they stand for.
I don’t think anyone will have the balls to try this again.
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Ed Woodward gone.
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It’s the end unless wankers like the Glazers want to keep Man U in and play week vs Real Madrid. That’s who will be left now that one team has pulled out.
I think it could almost be the end of Real Madrid
I’m sure the rest of the EPL will allow the 6 to stay in the league.....after the appropriate points deductions
Any advance on 12?
Do I hear 15 in the corner?
18 from the front row
All done?
Going once
Going twice
Sold to the gentleman in the front row with the replica Villa shirt
That is so good. Thanks 👍😂
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From Twitter:
Ed Woodward is negotiating his own departure, so expect it to drag on all summer and for talks to break down in August.
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One thing though...Sky are fucking loving this.
It’s a get out of jail card for the organisation who created the monster in the first place.
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Juventus Chairman gone
-
Ed Woodward gone.
Apparently according to “sources close to Woodward” he was going at the end of the year anyway
Yes of course you were Ed
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One thing though...Sky are fucking loving this.
It’s a get out of jail card for the organisation who created the monster in the first place.
this.
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I like the club statement:
"Aston Villa stands alongside all the clubs, supporters groups and the entire football family who have condemned the plans to create a so-called European Super League.
We are not standing idly by allowing the dreams of Aston Villa fans to be taken away by this sinister scheme.
Working along with fellow members of the Premier League and its Board we have today agreed to consider a range of punitive actions against those clubs and their executives who are involved.
We are reassured by the UK government’s position and the range of legislative options under consideration to do whatever it takes to prevent this scheme from becoming a reality."
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Spurs crowned European Super League champions.
Nah. They’d still fcuk it up.
-
I like the club statement:
"Aston Villa stands alongside all the clubs, supporters groups and the entire football family who have condemned the plans to create a so-called European Super League.
We are not standing idly by allowing the dreams of Aston Villa fans to be taken away by this sinister scheme.
Working along with fellow members of the Premier League and its Board we have today agreed to consider a range of punitive actions against those clubs and their executives who are involved.
We are reassured by the UK government’s position and the range of legislative options under consideration to do whatever it takes to prevent this scheme from becoming a reality."
That’ll do me
-
And while all this went on over the past few days, the new Champions League restructure, for which this very thread was created, was pushed through. A new format to favour the big clubs. Anyone get the feeling this ESL was just a Trojan horse?
Woodward resigning belies that theory I think. They really did take this gamble, and it really did slap them right in the bollocks.
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So do all the fans of the big six now see the point of Wigan?
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Finish them. Relegation, points deductuon, european ban for all 6 for 3 or 4 years.
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All 12 clubs must now be given a multi-year ban from European competition
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I want a third domino to fall so then I can say “and then there were three” which, hopefully, will engender pages of Genesis jokes
Don’t let me down lads
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Juventus Chairman gone
Yaaaas! He was the biggest ****** of them all.
This is a lovely evening.
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And so it begins.......Martin Tyler wonders how much responsibility the Chelsea chief exec will own up to in ‘what can only be described as an error of judgement by 6 clubs’.
Tyler needs to keep his fucking sycophantic trap shut.
-
As usual it will be the lawyers who will benefit from this
It has been confirmed that all 12 signed a 23 year binding contract
No one could leave without the consent of the others or face claims for damages that could be hundreds of millions
So will Chelsea now face the risk of £Ms of damages?
Looks a bit like a sting to me and Abramovich might feel he's on the end of it if he has to pay off the dirty 10's debts. Didn't someone say Chelski and City were somewhat bounced into this?
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Thinking about it the european ban would be the most ironic and do the least damage to the rest of english football.
-
they'll always be the scum6 to me now.
I’m so torn on this. Obviously this is a fucking near miss, and football was fairly close to the brink. And obviously the owners of those clubs I would gladly line up against a wall and shoot.
But fair play to the fans of those clubs, and to the players. I don’t really see why Chelsea fans, say, should be punished for this when one of the big moments in how it played out was thousands of them angrily protesting outside Stamford Bridge tonight.
-
European Super League executives drafting begging letters to Union Luxembourg, Fram Rejkjavik and Cowdenbeath as we speak.
Brilliant
Who’s next backing out, I go the Arse
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This is just kicking the can down the road, all these lot will be back because their thirst for more power and money cannot be quenched, fuck all will happen to any of them, just hope all fans remember these 12 clubs and what they stand for.
Fucking too right they will. Rip this plaster off now and fuck them off before they start trying to convince us plebs we should be grateful for their presence as they 'restructure' the tv deal in a bid to 'save football' on our behalfs. Wankers.
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Rats , thieves and sinking ships. Never expected for it to go down quite as quick. Fuckin love it
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It’s like Election night with a load of particularly objectionable Cabinet ministers losing their seats.
-
European Super League executives drafting begging letters to Union Luxembourg, Fram Rejkjavik and Cowdenbeath as we speak.
Brilliant
Who’s next backing out, I go the Arse
Nah. American owners* will want this.
*that aren't our Wes.
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I expect the Glazers will sit it out the longest, they seem to have the least affinity with the fans out of all the foreign owners.
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One massive thing the PL could do to punish them....if they stay in the PL, they have no vote on the PL board. They can observe and participate in PL meetings but have no voting rights.
That’ll fuck em.
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Juventus Chairman gone
Yaaaas! He was the biggest ****** of them all.
This is a lovely evening.
Italian journos I've seen suggesting it could be fake news. Really hope not, as I hate him and want him to go and live at the top of Mount Etna, but sadly my hunch is he's going nowhere.
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I wonder if they could’ve sneaked this through without the no relegation bullshit.
If they’d got the thing underway, they could’ve tweaked the rules later.
Madness.
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Oh dear, looks like it's all falling apart before our very eyes.
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I expect the Glazers will sit it out the longest, they seem to have the least affinity with the fans out of all the foreign owners.
Only to try and think of a way to limit the damage. All clubs can now see the way the wind is blowing.
I’m half disappointed they didn’t get fucked off so we could see it turn into the equivalent of the Chinese League. An elephants graveyard.
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Juventus Chairman gone
Yaaaas! He was the biggest ****** of them all.
This is a lovely evening.
Itakian journos I've seen suggesting it could be fake news. Really hope not, as I hate him and want him to go and live at the top of Mount Etna, but sadly my hunch is he's going nowhere.
Oh bugger. ☹
-
I wonder if tomorrow’s match thread will run to 82 pages?
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Is there any link I can click on to listen to/watch the Dean Smith interview about all this?
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Ed Woodward resigned?
Apparently. So he's the scapegoat for Man-ure then.
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So where does this leave spuds who are £900m up the shutter? Up shit creek without a paddle. Fuckin ace
-
So where does this leave spuds who are £900m up the shutter? Up shit creek without a paddle. Fuckin ace
good
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all this is quite entertaining I must say.
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I wonder if tomorrow’s match thread will run to 82 pages?
On here or Small Heath Alliance?
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Fair play to the Chelsea fans, which isn’t something I think I’ve uttered over the past 50 years.
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I wonder if tomorrow’s match thread will run to 82 pages?
On here or Small Heath Alliance?
👏👏👏
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Is there any link I can click on to listen to/watch the Dean Smith interview about all this?
If only there was a Villa site where they regularly post news about the club. ;)
https://video.avfc.co.uk/video/dm9kJTdDMF81MmhkNWJ1aiU3QyUyRnNlY3Rpb24lM0ZzbHVnJTNEaG9tZSU3Q2hvbWUlMkZoZXJvX2Nhcm91c2Vs?lang=en
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I think there needs to be reconsideration as to whether these owners are right and propped to own football clubs.
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I want a third domino to fall so then I can say “and then there were three” which, hopefully, will engender pages of Genesis jokes
Don’t let me down lads
I think that at least another one will come skulking back overnight. If they leave it any longer they will be in too deep.
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This is a bit bit like a villa defence from a few years ago. One goes in then 2-3-4 quickly follow
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They must, still, face punishments.
As I read that I had William Shatner’s voice in my head.
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So where does this leave spuds who are £900m up the shutter? Up shit creek without a paddle. Fuckin ace
good
They can always give Chas n Dave 2 years residency at the new WHL.
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So where does this leave spuds who are £900m up the shutter? Up shit creek without a paddle. Fuckin ace
good
They can always give Chas n Dave 2 years residency at the new WHL.
It would be just Dave these days
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As much as they fuck me off immensely and have ruined countless weeks and weekends, I absolutely love our club. Not just every word uttered by Dean Smith but the comments by Purslow earlier plus the statement. Absolutely brilliant all round. We are the architects of the dream these ****** tried to kill. Fuck them all.
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Yep its beginning to look,a bit half-arsed to me. Maybe they thought they bump Bayern/PSG into joining like they did with the likes of Chelsea and Man City (allegedly.) 12 clubs with another 3 unknown permanent members who are probably having 2nd thoughts about now, plus 5 other ever-changing clubs taking part in a parallel universe where FIFA/UEFA let them...…
I'd be a bit twitchy tonight if I was the ESL
Sometimes it's annoying being right all the time 8) 8)
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So where does this leave spuds who are £900m up the shutter? Up shit creek without a paddle. Fuckin ace
good
They can always give Chas n Dave 2 years residency at the new WHL.
Dave and Dave...Chas has been dead for two years. ;)
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Manchester United are delighted to appoint Gerald Ratner, as their new Marketing Director.
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Yep its beginning to look,a bit half-arsed to me. Maybe they thought they bump Bayern/PSG into joining like they did with the likes of Chelsea and Man City (allegedly.) 12 clubs with another 3 unknown permanent members who are probably having 2nd thoughts about now, plus 5 other ever-changing clubs taking part in a parallel universe where FIFA/UEFA let them...…
I'd be a bit twitchy tonight if I was the ESL
Sometimes it's annoying being right all the time 8) 8)
Thumbs up sickbeggar
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So where does this leave spuds who are £900m up the shutter? Up shit creek without a paddle. Fuckin ace
good
They can always give Chas n Dave 2 years residency at the new WHL.
It would be just Dave these days
There aint no pleasing you.
-
The ESL is deader than corduroy.
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Yep its beginning to look,a bit half-arsed to me. Maybe they thought they bump Bayern/PSG into joining like they did with the likes of Chelsea and Man City (allegedly.) 12 clubs with another 3 unknown permanent members who are probably having 2nd thoughts about now, plus 5 other ever-changing clubs taking part in a parallel universe where FIFA/UEFA let them...…
I'd be a bit twitchy tonight if I was the ESL
Sometimes it's annoying being right all the time 8) 8)
Ah come on man, I was in a good mood!
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One massive thing the PL could do to punish them....if they stay in the PL, they have no vote on the PL board. They can observe and participate in PL meetings but have no voting rights.
That’ll fuck em.
Not sure where you get this from, they’ve not left the Premier League have they? They just wanted a ring fenced mid week European competition.
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Wouldn’t it be great if they were all docked, say, 30 points and then all 6 could battle for the relegation places
Now that really would be a competition that I’m sure Sky would be thrilled to share with us
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A couple of years ban from European football would be nice to see, not sure that UEFA will have the balls for that though. And I'm sure the teams lawyers will be able to squirm out of any punishment
-
Barca and Atletico on the verge of folding
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I’ve got milk in my fridge that lasted longer then this super league.
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I don't think you can punish them otherwise you're as guilty as their owners in ignoring the wishes of their fans. Besides I expect the two drop-outs talked to UEFA first and they knew the value of getting someone in the ESL to blink first. Not that I wouldn't enjoy Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool and ManU starting in non-league next season mind, and now UEFA have cracked them, maybe they will go after the ringleaders..
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Long ban will be reduced to one season - max.
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I’ve got milk in my fridge that lasted longer then this super league.
Is it that filtered stuff because that’s good for about 4 weeks unopened?
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Spuds and Liverpool dragging it out in the vain hope they'll be awarded a trophy for last man standing.
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European bans won’t affect the domestic fans. Like a relegation, points deduction would.
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European bans won’t affect the domestic fans. Like a relegation, points deduction would.
True. You get the feeling stuff is going on in the background currently though. Hapless Ed going sounds like at least part of UEFA's pound of flesh for their part in it.
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RIP European Super League
April 19th - April 20th 2021
A glorious unbeaten era for the Villa invincibles.
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One thing though...Sky are fucking loving this.
It’s a get out of jail card for the organisation who created the monster in the first place.
this.
Spot on!
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Chelsea and Man City were, apparently, least convinced of the merits of the proposal and acquiesced due to fears of being left behind. Hopefully one or both break ranks and the whole thing crumbles.
A big boy did it and ran away.
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Man City confirmed out of Euro not so super league according to the grauniad
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Liverpool has just lot a sponsor over this
https://twitter.com/tribuswatches/status/1384597814089601026?s=21
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Man City are now officially out of the planned restructuring.
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Real Madrid are £900m in debt
Barcelona £1bn in debt
Juventus in huge debt
Man Utd in huge debt
Spurs in huge debt
This was the cash cow that these bastards banked on to ease the debt burden and they have come unstuck, this may lead to well run clubs becoming more competitive against the so called giants.
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Never thought I would say this but 'Gary Neville for Sports Personality of the Year'.
His fantastic outburst on Sunday night really set the foundation for the fans fantastic response and will help football get back on track.
Just a thought (another one). :)
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Chelsea and Man City were, apparently, least convinced of the merits of the proposal and acquiesced due to fears of being left behind. Hopefully one or both break ranks and the whole thing crumbles.
A big boy did it and ran away.
I'd forgotten posting that, but if sickbeggar is claiming smuggery this evening then I guess I can, too. 🙂
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For just a few hours our chances of winning something suddenly improved only to be dashed by Chelsea and Man City yet again.
I fear tomorrow may be a proper down to earth moment.
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Chelsea and Man City were, apparently, least convinced of the merits of the proposal and acquiesced due to fears of being left behind. Hopefully one or both break ranks and the whole thing crumbles.
A big boy did it and ran away.
I'd forgotten posting that, but if sickbeggar is claiming smuggery this evening then I guess I can, too. 🙂
be my guest 8) *smug mode on*
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So basically they will all back track and it will be forgotten in a week.
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Ed Woodward’s resignation statement
“I am extremely proud to have served United and it has been an honour to work for the world’s greatest football club for the past 16 years.”
Even now, they just can’t stop the arrogance
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There has to be a consequence to this level of treachery.
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Chelsea and Man City were, apparently, least convinced of the merits of the proposal and acquiesced due to fears of being left behind. Hopefully one or both break ranks and the whole thing crumbles.
A big boy did it and ran away.
I'd forgotten posting that, but if sickbeggar is claiming smuggery this evening then I guess I can, too. 🙂
The whole thing is so murky, CD.
Your motives are pure.
I think we’re going to understand the long game somewhere around 2182, at the bicentennial.
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Depends. Did UEFA offer City and Chelsea a safe way back but not the others?
(realistically the broadcasters and advertisers aren't gonna put up with a CL without the scum 10 for too long.)
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There has to be a consequence to this level of treachery.
Hope the fuckers arent let off the hook for this. Hope they pay the price even though it has gone pete tong on them
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So only Man City have officially started proceedings to withdraw from the super league.
Chelsea are having doubts.
Barcelona and Real Madrid committed to the plans.
Twitter.
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Apparently UEFA negotiating a £5.2b deal with Centricus Asset Management, a London based hedge fund
Currently UEFA doles out £3b each year
So I think I see where this is heading
UEFA does the deal based on the new “improved” CL format that was agreed yesterday. The “dirty dozen” were happy with the format but not the allocation of dosh.
So, UEFA agrees that the extra £2.2b should go mainly to the 12 to pretty much compensate for the money they would have got from JP Morgan (which was only as upfront loan anyway)
The 12 “reluctantly” agree to step back into the fold, claiming that their action was only intended for the good of the game at grass roots level
We all move on....nothing to see here
I think I’m still in with a shout of claiming my £5
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UEFA have welcomed back Man City to the CL.
A welcome back in the style of a TV host who tells you not to go away before the break then welcomes you back afterwards when you haven't actually left your seat.
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Thank fuck that seems to be over. Now let's spend a fuckton of cash so when it does happen we're one of the bastards pulling the ladder up.
-
So are Man City the only one to “officially” pull out?
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FSG looking to sell Liverpool according to several sources if ESL doesn’t go ahead.
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So only Man City have officially started proceedings to withdraw from the super league.
Chelsea are having doubts.
Barcelona and Real Madrid committed to the plans.
Yep https://twitter.com/theMadridZone/status/1384607693348823040
That's much better, more chance of them being punished seeing they haven't all capitulated immediately.
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So are Man City the only one to “officially” pull out?
Chelsea apparently pulled out this morning but are actually looking over the paperwork first, City, obviously not worried about getting sued.
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Why do I hope Spurs are the only English club to try and stick it and join the ESL?
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So are Man City the only one to “officially” pull out?
Chelsea apparently pulled out this morning but are actually looking over the paperwork first, City, obviously not worried about getting sued.
Not sure you pull out of a deal and then look at the paperwork afterwards, hopefully they're fucked and signed up to a 20 year deal.
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Why do I hope Spurs are the only English club to try and stick it and join the ESL?
Because I am secretly hoping for the same thing, manic-road
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So are Man City the only one to “officially” pull out?
Chelsea apparently pulled out this morning but are actually looking over the paperwork first, City, obviously not worried about getting sued.
I thought Chelsea “indicated” they would be pulling out just this evening when the fans were protesting outside SB.
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So are Man City the only one to “officially” pull out?
Chelsea apparently pulled out this morning but are actually looking over the paperwork first, City, obviously not worried about getting sued.
Not sure you pull out of a deal and then look at the paperwork afterwards, hopefully they're fucked and signed up to a 20 year deal.
Financially could be a bit of a headache.
Goodness me.
I hope.
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Thank fuck that seems to be over. Now let's spend a fuckton of cash so when it does happen we're one of the bastards pulling the ladder up.
Not for me.
It's monumentally shit even if we were to benefit from it initially.
I'd also argue any short term gain would be wiped out by the deadening predictability of it all.
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Think PR consultants and the legal profession will be rubbing their hands over this shambles.
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Who did they want to expose in going for this?
They’ve all retreated, I don’t count Spurs.
Was it Woodward?
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So are Man City the only one to “officially” pull out?
Chelsea apparently pulled out this morning but are actually looking over the paperwork first, City, obviously not worried about getting sued.
Not sure you pull out of a deal and then look at the paperwork afterwards, hopefully they're fucked and signed up to a 20 year deal.
just what I read on the bbc site from "insiders". If city have gone now then i'm guessing its just a matter of time but I wouldn't blame them for running it past the lawyers again. I can't imagine the ESL could be arsed mind. Would take years to get to court.
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So are Man City the only one to “officially” pull out?
Chelsea apparently pulled out this morning but are actually looking over the paperwork first, City, obviously not worried about getting sued.
I thought Chelsea “indicated” they would be pulling out just this evening when the fans were protesting outside SB.
Said on the BBC site that Abramovich took the decision this morning for what its worth. *shrugs shoulders*
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Rats and ships?
-
A win for Man U fans with Woodward who they despised gone.
He was going in the summer anyway so not much of a loss, though I expect he was in for a fair old bonus if this super league kicked off
Former Glazer cheerleader, whiskey nose himself, leading the charge against the elitists....Mansour and Abramovich champions of the people's game, Boris Johnson coming out swinging....it's been a strange old day
-
FSG looking to sell Liverpool according to several sources if ESL doesn’t go ahead.
Would make sense, a bit awkward staying on after all this.
-
Thank fuck that seems to be over. Now let's spend a fuckton of cash so when it does happen we're one of the bastards pulling the ladder up.
Not for me.
It's monumentally shit even if we were to benefit from it initially.
I'd also argue any short term gain would be wiped out by the deadening predictability of it all.
I wasn't being entirely serious.
Feel pleased that it seems to be unravelling so quick but now I'm just thinking how shit the current system is!
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Whoever rises to the top in the other clubs ( except Spurs) was the one who masterminded this.
Who also has a link to JPMorgan, about whose offer we will never hear another thing.
Unless the Spurs thing was another misdirect...
No.
-
Clyde win.
Villa Women avoid defeat.
Chauvin found guilty.
European Super League fucked.
Decent evening. 🙂
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They won’t get any sort of punishment.
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They're all still pricks. Shouldn't escape anyone's notice that Man City and Chelsea happen to be the two English teams still in with a good chance of winning the Champions League this season, a chance that would have gone up in smoke had they continued with their plan. And they're still owned by dodgy sportwashers.
I'm going to bed now. In an ideal world, when I wake up tomorrow these c***y clubs will have spontaneously gone bankrupt overnight.
-
Clyde win.
Villa Women avoid defeat.
Chauvin found guilty.
European Super League fucked.
Decent evening. 🙂
Seconded
-
So far it’s only City that have officially pulled out. Not total collapse. Maybe the rest will brazen it out and look for new takers?
-
Struggling to think who else they could persuade.
I'm terms of the most viable:
Spain: Sevilla have already turned it down
Italy: Roma have denounced it
England: basically everyone has denounced it and the English clubs seem more scared of the backlash than anyone else
Germany: seems a total non-starter
Netherlands: Ajax have denounced it
Portugal: Porto said no
Russia: all balls deep in Gazprom money and they bankroll the Champions League
Is anyone going to be that excited if the best teams from Switzerland and Denmark start getting invited?
It's dead, I reckon.
-
So far it’s only City that have officially pulled out. Not total collapse. Maybe the rest will brazen it out and look for new takers?
Think I may know of a club not too far away who might like to fill the gap. Low morals. You fill the position nicely one slight problem. They have very rarely been outside the UK.
-
They have, and Liam Daish has the criminal record to prove it.
-
Struggling to think who else they could persuade.
I'm terms of the most viable:
Spain: Sevilla have already turned it down
Italy: Roma have denounced it
England: basically everyone has denounced it and the English clubs seem more scared of the backlash than anyone else
Germany: seems a total non-starter
Netherlands: Ajax have denounced it
Portugal: Porto said no
Russia: all balls deep in Gazprom money and they bankroll the Champions League
Is anyone going to be that excited if the best teams from Switzerland and Denmark start getting invited?
It's dead, I reckon.
celtic and rangers
-
Think Man City have realised that their sportswashing plan ain't going to work if they turn out to be the evil ones in that too. In that sense they can probably afford to renegade on a 23 year contract, whereas for the other 5 English clubs who perhaps are mainly motivated by the money aspect, it'll be a far more bitter pill to swallow.
-
Struggling to think who else they could persuade.
I'm terms of the most viable:
Spain: Sevilla have already turned it down
Italy: Roma have denounced it
England: basically everyone has denounced it and the English clubs seem more scared of the backlash than anyone else
Germany: seems a total non-starter
Netherlands: Ajax have denounced it
Portugal: Porto said no
Russia: all balls deep in Gazprom money and they bankroll the Champions League
Is anyone going to be that excited if the best teams from Switzerland and Denmark start getting invited?
It's dead, I reckon.
celtic and rangers
Quite possibly, though I don't think too many from across the North Sea give much of a fuck about them. So, thirteen teams and no relegation then? Neither this year or last year's Champions League Winners?
Could scarcely be more Mickey Mouse if they stick it on the Disney Channel.
-
The thing that is nagging away at me is whether this is actually over. I don't mean the ESL which was looking threadbare before City and Chelsea abandoned it. I mean a World league. Given their model for the future ( flush the cash from foreign armchairs and daytrippers) I could see them approaching a team in china, south American, north america middle east etc .. and going the full Harlem globetrotters with the remains of the ESL.
-
They won’t get any sort of punishment.
They won't, but I suspect the rules of the Premier League will be changed at the end of the season to make any repeat of anything like this incredibly painful for those involved.
-
i am pleased it looks like it is going to fail . but i wish they would not pretend that the premiership is all fair and dandy . The whole distribution of money still needs looking at down the pyramid.
-
i am pleased it looks like it is going to fail . but i wish they would not pretend that the premiership is all fair and dandy . The whole distribution of money still needs looking at down the pyramid.
I'm not sure, I reckon we probably have the wealthiest second tier, third tier, fourth tier, fifth tier and sixth tier of any national football structure on the planet.
I'd rather they gave more to communities or to developing leagues in impoverished countries if they want to redistribute cash. Let the money do something good.
Rochdale don't need to be paying players five grand a week any more than Man City need to be paying them a hundred times that.
-
I think we need to be careful where we attribute punishment here. I think a lot of credit must go to the real fans of the clubs in question to come out so passionately over this.
The people responsible should be punished for this and their greed not the inocent. I could say there but for the grace of God go I/we. It could have been our club if our owners were the same. Hopefully they are not. The fans of these clubs have stood shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the football family to kill this abomination. I salute them.
Let's just target the blame on the guilty.
-
Agreed.
-
I think we need to be careful where we attribute punishment here. I think a lot of credit must go to the real fans of the clubs in question to come out so passionately over this.
The people responsible should be punished for this and their greed not the inocent. I could say there but for the grace of God go I/we. It could have been our club if our owners were the same. Hopefully they are not. The fans of these clubs have stood shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the football family to kill this abomination. I salute them.
Let's just target the blame on the guilty.
yep. Is it really any different from when the FA dumped on the Football League to form the Premier League except we were the ones doing the dumping? If that had gone pear-shaped should the fans of those clubs have been punished for being totally in the dark about it?
-
How would you punish the owners? Any fine that would be given would be like loose change to them. A ban from European football would be the only thing that would bother them.
-
Struggling to think who else they could persuade.
I'm terms of the most viable:
Spain: Sevilla have already turned it down
Italy: Roma have denounced it
England: basically everyone has denounced it and the English clubs seem more scared of the backlash than anyone else
Germany: seems a total non-starter
Netherlands: Ajax have denounced it
Portugal: Porto said no
Russia: all balls deep in Gazprom money and they bankroll the Champions League
Is anyone going to be that excited if the best teams from Switzerland and Denmark start getting invited?
It's dead, I reckon.
celtic and rangers
Quite possibly, though I don't think too many from across the North Sea give much of a fuck about them. So, thirteen teams and no relegation then? Neither this year or last year's Champions League Winners?
Could scarcely be more Mickey Mouse if they stick it on the Disney Channel.
RB Leipzig/PSG/Lyon/Marseille/Anderlecht/Napoli/Lazio/Olympiakos/Benfica/Sporting Lisbon/Galatasaray/PSV
-
I still like the idea of Man U and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' playing in the Vanarama
Make it so.
-
It's different in that the Premier League was never a closed shop. The 1991/92 First Division had 22 teams of whom the bottom three went down. The 1992/93 Premier League had 22 teams of whom the bottom three went down.
-
Manure, Liverpool & Arsenal release statements dropping out now.
-
Struggling to think who else they could persuade.
I'm terms of the most viable:
Spain: Sevilla have already turned it down
Italy: Roma have denounced it
England: basically everyone has denounced it and the English clubs seem more scared of the backlash than anyone else
Germany: seems a total non-starter
Netherlands: Ajax have denounced it
Portugal: Porto said no
Russia: all balls deep in Gazprom money and they bankroll the Champions League
Is anyone going to be that excited if the best teams from Switzerland and Denmark start getting invited?
It's dead, I reckon.
celtic and rangers
Quite possibly, though I don't think too many from across the North Sea give much of a fuck about them. So, thirteen teams and no relegation then? Neither this year or last year's Champions League Winners?
Could scarcely be more Mickey Mouse if they stick it on the Disney Channel.
RB Leipzig/PSG/Lyon/Marseille/Anderlecht/Napoli/Lazio/Olympiakos/Benfica/Sporting Lisbon/Galatasaray/PSV
Leipzig have said no. PSG have said no.
Not sure about the rest. Not the most exciting list, is it?
No Bayern, no PSG, no Man City, no Chelsea = no credibility.
-
Oh and Liverpool and Man U have now dropped out. Arsenal and Tottenham to follow.
It's over.
-
It's different in that the Premier League was never a closed shop. The 1991/92 First Division had 22 teams of whom the bottom three went down. The 1992/93 Premier League had 22 teams of whom the bottom three went down.
It was still about getting a much bigger slice of the cake for the top division than anything else. Only thing that's changed is the scale and the ambition of the greed.
-
No, that isn't the "only" thing unless you ignore everything except the one point you're making.
-
I think we need to be careful where we attribute punishment here. I think a lot of credit must go to the real fans of the clubs in question to come out so passionately over this.
The people responsible should be punished for this and their greed not the inocent. I could say there but for the grace of God go I/we. It could have been our club if our owners were the same. Hopefully they are not. The fans of these clubs have stood shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the football family to kill this abomination. I salute them.
Let's just target the blame on the guilty.
I see your point but the fans of these clubs have been happy enough to enjoy the success brought about by the largesse of their wealthy owners for the best part of 2 decades. Now that those same wealthy owners have screwed up they can suffer the consequences of that for a couple of seasons (at least).
-
I think we need to be careful where we attribute punishment here. I think a lot of credit must go to the real fans of the clubs in question to come out so passionately over this.
The people responsible should be punished for this and their greed not the inocent. I could say there but for the grace of God go I/we. It could have been our club if our owners were the same. Hopefully they are not. The fans of these clubs have stood shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the football family to kill this abomination. I salute them.
Let's just target the blame on the guilty.
I see your point but the fans of these clubs have been happy enough to enjoy the success brought about by the largesse of their wealthy owners for the best part of 2 decades. Now that those same wealthy owners have screwed up they can suffer the consequences of that for a couple of seasons (at least).
Hear Hear BV.
-
I think we need to be careful where we attribute punishment here. I think a lot of credit must go to the real fans of the clubs in question to come out so passionately over this.
The people responsible should be punished for this and their greed not the inocent. I could say there but for the grace of God go I/we. It could have been our club if our owners were the same. Hopefully they are not. The fans of these clubs have stood shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the football family to kill this abomination. I salute them.
Let's just target the blame on the guilty.
I see your point but the fans of these clubs have been happy enough to enjoy the success brought about the largesse of their wealthy owners for the best part of 2 decades. Now that those same wealthy owners have screwed up they can suffer the consequences of that for a couple of seasons (at least).
Exactly. As football fans we all live and die by the decisions the owners of our clubs make. That's not just the managers they choose or the players they buy, it's everything. If you break the rules, you get punished.
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So getting the thread back on track.
The CL was restructured on Friday I believe.
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All six are now out. Arsenal are the only ones to issue an apology so far.
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So getting the thread back on track.
The CL was restructured on Friday I believe.
And that's the biggest actual crime that has gone on unnoticed.
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Arsenal out now
And then there were three
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...and so they've all withdrawn now!
Cowardly scabs looking to make right a wrong.
Their part in all this should not be forgotten. There should be punishments for all the clubs involved. Going forwards no allowances should be made for these 6 clubs to continue monopolising competitions, the best players, the visual and written media, refereeing decisions, var, the money in the game etc. They have shown themselves for what they are. Actions have consequences, they now need to be punished for stepping out of line and putting the integrity of football as a sport at risk.
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No, that isn't the "only" thing unless you ignore everything except the one point you're making.
Suit yourself. I never had the formation of the Premier League down as some act of benevolence on the part of clubs involved.
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All six dropped out.
Breaking on BBC
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So as I thought at the begging it was all just a power play.
What Champions League changes have been ratified in full? Am I to assume that these changes only suit the teams who proposes joining this bullshit league? Let me guess it's now even more of a closed shop than ever and teams like us now have even less chance of getting there?
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Apoints reduction would penalise the fans who were innocent in all of this, i prefer a three year ban from playing in Europe this would acheive many aims. They would lose the ability to attract top players , they would be faced with transfer requests from their best players, they would lose all the revenue that Europe brings and lastly there would be an adventage for a lot of clubs to play in Europe who wouldn't normally get the opportunity, they would automatically become more attractive to better players.
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I think we need to be careful where we attribute punishment here. I think a lot of credit must go to the real fans of the clubs in question to come out so passionately over this.
The people responsible should be punished for this and their greed not the inocent. I could say there but for the grace of God go I/we. It could have been our club if our owners were the same. Hopefully they are not. The fans of these clubs have stood shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the football family to kill this abomination. I salute them.
Let's just target the blame on the guilty.
I see your point but the fans of these clubs have been happy enough to enjoy the success brought about by the largesse of their wealthy owners for the best part of 2 decades. Now that those same wealthy owners have screwed up they can suffer the consequences of that for a couple of seasons (at least).
I feel like I should rise above it, and it was nice to see the reaction from fans of all clubs. But fuck 'em.
As has been pointed out elsewhere, clubs and by extension their fanbases have been punished before for the mismanagement of their owners. We were nearly one of them.
If these loathsome bastards can't keep a business healthy with the ridiculous sums of money already in the game - the vast majority of which flows through this handful of clubs in the first place - the only conclusion is that they're spending beyond their means to inflate their own continued success, and are perhaps not as 'big' as they think they are.
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I'd still kick them all out of English football. Wankers.
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All six are now out. Arsenal are the only ones to issue an apology so far.
And Spurs' statement is precisely the sort of bullshit you'd expect from Levy - "we're leaving the group developing the plans for the ESL" as if they hadn't really committed to anything in the first place.
Absolute shitehawks!
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I think we need to be careful where we attribute punishment here. I think a lot of credit must go to the real fans of the clubs in question to come out so passionately over this.
The people responsible should be punished for this and their greed not the inocent. I could say there but for the grace of God go I/we. It could have been our club if our owners were the same. Hopefully they are not. The fans of these clubs have stood shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the football family to kill this abomination. I salute them.
Let's just target the blame on the guilty.
I see your point but the fans of these clubs have been happy enough to enjoy the success brought about the largesse of their wealthy owners for the best part of 2 decades. Now that those same wealthy owners have screwed up they can suffer the consequences of that for a couple of seasons (at least).
Exactly. As football fans we all live and die by the decisions the owners of our clubs make. That's not just the managers they choose or the players they buy, it's everything. If you break the rules, you get punished.
Agreed, both.
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So getting the thread back on track.
The CL was restructured on Friday I believe.
Yep. I don't actually mind them increasing the number of group games. Completely ignoring ten group games compared to completely ignoring six group games makes no difference to me.
My only problem with that is the persistence of the myth that domestic games have to be reduced to accommodate the extra group matches. It is total bollocks. They were playing twelve group games (plus far more "big" teams had to take part in qualifiers) at the start of the century. They also used to play far more games in the form of domestic replays than they do currently Leave the League Cup and the size of the leagues along, you twats.
I don't mind them increasing the number of teams to 36. Giving extra teams from the less-financially doped leagues a place doesn't seem a bad idea.
The format seems confusing but I don't like the idea, if I have read it right, that you wouldn't know who you were playing until a week or two in advance. That would make attendance at away games an absolute nightmare for all but the wealthiest fans with the most time on their hands.
Allowing places based on performance in previous seasons is a total disgrace. It is basically the same protectionism and greed that everyone hated about the ESL but on a smaller scale.
While we are railing against greed, I'd like to see far more tickets to major finals allocated to actual fans, too, please.
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Reactions from the supposed key four.
Liverpool said their involvement in the proposed breakaway league "has been discontinued".
Manchester United said they had "listened carefully to the reaction from our fans, the UK government and other key stakeholders" in making their decision to not take part.
Arsenal apologised and said they had "made a mistake", adding they were withdrawing after listening to their fans and the "wider football community".
Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy said the club regretted the "anxiety and upset" caused by the proposal.
So only one of them hasn't mentioned apologise or regrets or the listening to the fans even though it is all said via gritted teeth. I still want to find out which of the four had the board member who rubbished the fans anonymously yesterday as I believe it was one of the clubs listed above.
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Meh. Personally i'm looking forward to the excitement of the Madrid-Milan Super League
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Do you think they will want their legacy fans back now. The owners should all fuck off just for that.
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Anyone else been amused by the faux outrage shown by Sky over 'greed' and 'self interest'.Pot kettle black.Wankers.
Anyway they can go back to wanking off their favourite teams in red now it's gone up shit creek.
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League's been 'suspended' (hopefully over an active volcano). Milan hilariously withdrew literally one minute before it was suspended. Wankers.
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They might have all come crawling back with their tails between their legs, but this should never be forgotten.
All six were willing to sacrifice the game at the altar to line their grubby pockets.
Liverpool and Man United's statements are a disgrace. They read more like spoilt brats having a strop because they can't get what they wanted, not a shred of remorse.
Don't you dare try and sweep this under the carpet.
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At the very least the “fit and proper owner” test should be brought into play
As these are all limited companies it would be appropriate if the directors were disqualified for a number of years
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I think we need to be careful where we attribute punishment here. I think a lot of credit must go to the real fans of the clubs in question to come out so passionately over this.
The people responsible should be punished for this and their greed not the inocent. I could say there but for the grace of God go I/we. It could have been our club if our owners were the same. Hopefully they are not. The fans of these clubs have stood shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the football family to kill this abomination. I salute them.
Let's just target the blame on the guilty.
I see your point but the fans of these clubs have been happy enough to enjoy the success brought about by the largesse of their wealthy owners for the best part of 2 decades. Now that those same wealthy owners have screwed up they can suffer the consequences of that for a couple of seasons (at least).
Agreed. Just like we would have done if Randy onwards had had enough cash etc. Do you really think we're different?
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At the very least the “fit and proper owner” test should be brought into play
As these are all limited companies it would be appropriate if the directors were disqualified for a number of years
steady on. You'll have about 60 clubs looking for new owners.
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Apoints reduction would penalise the fans who were innocent in all of this, i prefer a three year ban from playing in Europe this would acheive many aims. They would lose the ability to attract top players , they would be faced with transfer requests from their best players, they would lose all the revenue that Europe brings and lastly there would be an adventage for a lot of clubs to play in Europe who wouldn't normally get the opportunity, they would automatically become more attractive to better players.
Agreed 100% Robbo. They never wanted to leave the Premier League but they did want to dominate the European competitions for their own gain.
The irony of a European ban would be poetic justice.
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This can’t go unpunished. The instigators must have been in talks for months, whilst continuing to sit around the table with their own league’s representatives & UEFA.
Others will have been informed over the last few days & they may escape major punishment.
Points deduction, European bans, resignations & tightening of the rules. Some owners will sell up.
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Loads of fans from loads of clubs have suffered due to mismanagement by ownership. It wasn't their fans' fault either. The 6 clubs involved shouldn't get a free pass just because they're not Bolton, or Bury. A few seasons in the lower leagues won't be too bad, they'll get over it. Their fans can blame the owners - not implementation of punishment.
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At the very least the “fit and proper owner” test should be brought into play
As these are all limited companies it would be appropriate if the directors were disqualified for a number of years
Decades more like 😀
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I am willing to bet my right nutsack:
There will be no punishment handed down to the teams "football needs them too much"
The media wankathon over the teams will carry on as if nothing happened.
All of the CEO's that resigned form that ECA board will be allowed back in. After all they created the champions league closed shop as it is now
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Loads of fans from loads of clubs have suffered due to mismanagement by ownership. It wasn't their fans' fault either. The 6 clubs involved shouldn't get a free pass just because they're not Bolton, or Bury. A few seasons in the lower leagues won't be too bad, they'll get over it. Their fans can blame the owners - not implementation of punishment.
hear hear. Bloody hell, when we were facing the abyss 3 years ago Spurs tried to buy Grealish for £3m plus a reject. Zero tolerance from me, Spurs didn't give a sh1t about us in 2018 let them suffer the consequences of their treachery.
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Have they technically broken any rules - don't think so
Do UEFA need them back in for their slightly more acceptable version of wanton greed to work - yes
Will the owners of ManU/madrid/etc try this again after getting royally buttfucked in public - probably not
Will UEFA allow them to try again - not a chance
So overall not a bad result
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I think we need to be careful where we attribute punishment here. I think a lot of credit must go to the real fans of the clubs in question to come out so passionately over this.
The people responsible should be punished for this and their greed not the inocent. I could say there but for the grace of God go I/we. It could have been our club if our owners were the same. Hopefully they are not. The fans of these clubs have stood shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the football family to kill this abomination. I salute them.
Let's just target the blame on the guilty.
I see your point but the fans of these clubs have been happy enough to enjoy the success brought about the largesse of their wealthy owners for the best part of 2 decades. Now that those same wealthy owners have screwed up they can suffer the consequences of that for a couple of seasons (at least).
Exactly. As football fans we all live and die by the decisions the owners of our clubs make. That's not just the managers they choose or the players they buy, it's everything. If you break the rules, you get punished.
That's my point though really isn't it. Their fans didn't live and die by their clubs owners decisions. They stood up to them and said no.
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League's been 'suspended' (hopefully over an active volcano). Milan hilariously withdrew literally one minute before it was suspended. Wankers.
Where's this from, please? I'm enjoying every humiliating climbdown.
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i am pleased it looks like it is going to fail . but i wish they would not pretend that the premiership is all fair and dandy . The whole distribution of money still needs looking at down the pyramid.
I'm not sure, I reckon we probably have the wealthiest second tier, third tier, fourth tier, fifth tier and sixth tier of any national football structure on the planet.
I'd rather they gave more to communities or to developing leagues in impoverished countries if they want to redistribute cash. Let the money do something good.
Rochdale don't need to be paying players five grand a week any more than Man City need to be paying them a hundred times that.
I'll have you know that players pay five grand a week to play for the Mighty 'Dale - 3 wins on the trot in the last week !!
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League's been 'suspended' (hopefully over an active volcano). Milan hilariously withdrew literally one minute before it was suspended. Wankers.
Where's this from, please? I'm enjoying every humiliating climbdown.
https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/1384631922261995520
Sorry, meant to write one minute *after. Permanently ridiculous.
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i am pleased it looks like it is going to fail . but i wish they would not pretend that the premiership is all fair and dandy . The whole distribution of money still needs looking at down the pyramid.
I'm not sure, I reckon we probably have the wealthiest second tier, third tier, fourth tier, fifth tier and sixth tier of any national football structure on the planet.
I'd rather they gave more to communities or to developing leagues in impoverished countries if they want to redistribute cash. Let the money do something good.
Rochdale don't need to be paying players five grand a week any more than Man City need to be paying them a hundred times that.
I'll have you know that players pay five grand a week to play for the Mighty 'Dale - 3 wins on the trot in the last week !!
Now we can see why the ESL really wanted a closed shop. They're obviously running scared of Lisa Stansfield and Gracie Fields' pride and joy. 🙂
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I am willing to bet my right nutsack:
There will be no punishment handed down to the teams "football needs them too much"
The media wankathon over the teams will carry on as if nothing happened.
All of the CEO's that resigned form that ECA board will be allowed back in. After all they created the champions league closed shop as it is now
That's exactly what will happen.
On top of that, these latest CL reforms - passed this week on the quiet - will be reworked to favour them even more.
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Plenty of material for Squires this week. :D
https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2021/apr/20/david-squires-on-the-plans-for-a-european-super-league
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Well the good thing is these clubs have lost so much political influence and clout within UEFA. Will take years to repair that damage. UEFA are in it for the money just like the rest of them and for a second there, they saw their money tree being taken away and they didn't like it. Not surprised Woodward buggered off early as no-one was going to trust him anymore
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Well the good thing is these clubs have lost so much political influence and clout within UEFA. Will take years to repair that damage. UEFA are in it for the money just like the rest of them and for a second there, they saw their money tree being taken away and they didn't like it.
No, they didn't like it, which is why they'll be all over the 15 now they've come back.
They want them inside the tent pissing out, not the other way round.
This is nothing about principles, it is one bunch of ****** v an even bigger bunch of ******.
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Well the good thing is these clubs have lost so much political influence and clout within UEFA. Will take years to repair that damage. UEFA are in it for the money just like the rest of them and for a second there, they saw their money tree being taken away and they didn't like it.
No, they didn't like it, which is why they'll be all over the 15 now they've come back.
They want them inside the tent pissing out, not the other way round.
This is nothing about principles, it is one bunch of ****** v an even bigger bunch of ******.
Agreed.
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Anyone else been amused by the faux outrage shown by Sky over 'greed' and 'self interest'.Pot kettle black.Wankers.
Anyway they can go back to wanking off their favourite teams in red now it's gone up shit creek.
Yep, some massive boulders been thrown in greenhouses over the past few days. FIFA (World Club Championship, World Cups in Russia and Qatar), UEFA (creation of the Champions League which has created a massively uneven playing field in countries across Europe) and the Premier League (kept the money at the top of the game while lower league clubs have gone to the wall) trying to take some kind of moral high ground has been laughable.
Classic example on the radio earlier. Eddie Hearn was on and went on a rant about how football fans in this country had been let down by this and it was all about greed. Then went very quiet when asked if the Fury v Joshua fight was going to be held in Saudi Arabia.
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Meh. Personally i'm looking forward to the excitement of the Madrid-Milan Super League
They will set up franchises based on major football cities, and lure players with lucrative contracts. All games will be played in a very few venues which have the most advanced TV facilities in place. Kids watching a game from, say Everton or WBA will think, wtf.
Then, AI will kick in. On the plus side, you will able to generate Willie Anderson beating 5 players and scoring a wonder goal.
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Anyone else been amused by the faux outrage shown by Sky over 'greed' and 'self interest'.Pot kettle black.Wankers.
Anyway they can go back to wanking off their favourite teams in red now it's gone up shit creek.
Yep, some massive boulders been thrown in greenhouses over the past few days. FIFA (World Club Championship...
I don't really have a problem with the concept of a better organised World Club Championship. I appreciate that it is difficult to fit into the calendar and likely to be overly-dominated by European clubs, for the immediate future, at least. However, we have clubs competing to see who is the best in each country and continent, it has always seemed a natural progression to me that you would want to establish who was the best in the world.
It doesn't seem intrinsically less logical to me that Boca Juniors could occasionally play Real Madrid than it does that Argentina sometimes play Spain.
For clarity, I am not, in any way, supporting any further ESL-style league that has teams from multiple continents. I just have no objection to an expansion of the existing Fifa Club World Cup competition so long as teams qualify legitimately by performance in continental cups.
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I am willing to bet my right nutsack:
There will be no punishment handed down to the teams "football needs them too much"
The media wankathon over the teams will carry on as if nothing happened.
All of the CEO's that resigned form that ECA board will be allowed back in. After all they created the champions league closed shop as it is now
How many nutsacks do you have?!
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I'd like to see transfer bans and point deductions handed out.
Not because I'm bloodthirsty, but because this is hot on the heels of their previous power play "project big picture" which imo was almost as disgusting as this super league idea, and they faced no consequences for that.
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I’ve given this a bit of thought. I’m all for punishing the clubs financially, like a big fine, much more than that hurts the very fans who did so much to bring it to an embarrassing end. They shouldn’t be punished. But for the owners, chairman, wankers who plotted behind the scenes, they need to be hounded out. Listened to Souness earlier that he thinks John Henry won’t survive. Let’s see. But that’s the way to punish the clubs, is to hit the owners personally somehow. That’s what they understand most.
UEFA knows their product is better with those clubs a part of it. So have this gone ahead I have no doubt they’d have fucked those clubs over, now they are back it will be interesting to see what they do also. They won’t ever trust those owners ever again.
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Trouble is any action UEFA take with regards to fines will get bogged down in the courts. They certainly wont bar them from European competition for the reasons we already know. So I'm hoping the EPL step up and punish the clubs and unfortunately this will mean the fans getting caught up in this as their clubs will be penalised. At the end of the day, English supporters stopped this so the EPL needs to set the example with the punishment.
I'd be looking at a points deduction starting at the beginning of next season, say 6 points for each of the 6 weasels. That's not an insurmountable number for these clubs to make up but does put them at a significant disadvantage.
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Have they technically broken any rules - don't think so
Do UEFA need them back in for their slightly more acceptable version of wanton greed to work - yes
Will the owners of ManU/madrid/etc try this again after getting royally buttfucked in public - probably not
Will UEFA allow them to try again - not a chance
So overall not a bad result
But they have ‘technically’ broken the rules, haven’t they.
A premier league rule is that clubs cannot plan to play in another competition without the permission of the league. I am sure I heard that referred to on Monday.
A massive fine won’t bother them. Points deductions are a great option, but punishes the fans who didn’t want this in the first place.
The only way to hurt them is to their egos. Make them see that they are not the power lords in English football.
For me, best punishment it to take their power away.
Withdraw their right to vote on the PL for a period of 2 years or more.
They all think they they are Billy big bollocks - well, bring them down to earth and make them eat humble pie for a time.
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I can not see any viable way that the perpetrators can be punished.
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A fitting punishment might be to force them to play in a midweek super league - just the six of them, playing each other every Wednesday, with no prize money and no TV cameras. They have to play a full strength side in every game.
As a kindness, relieve them of European football for the next 5 seasons to help with the fixture congestion.
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Banning them from European competition for a year or two will hurt them far more than a fine.
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Id ban them, but Uefa won’t because of viewing figures.
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i think they will push for a greater share of the broadcast rights from SKY
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Regroup, plan again
They have seen the riches within reach and will still want them.
UEFA as someone pointed out are also in it for the money, they will be scheming how to make the best of this opportunity now that Pandora's Box is open.
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I can’t imagine the other 14 will vote for any changes that help the treacherous 6.
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Nothing will happen as regards punishment, also I don’t think it’s over either. I wonder if this is just the start.
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i agree Ian. this is not over, they will try to get themselves automatic entry to the Champions league each season
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i agree Ian. this is not over, they will try to get themselves automatic entry to the Champions league each season
That wouldn't be allowed to stand either. It's more or less the same thing.
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And they can be told to fuck off.
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And they can be told to fuck off.
Absofuckinglutely.
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I think the proposed Super League agenda will return again fairly soon in a different format; the rich clubs still want more money because they are spending so much more than what they can generate.
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Maybe they'll actually plan something this time, rather than scribbling on a piece of paper:-
1) all money goes to us
2) we qualify even if we finish bottom
3) other clubs aren't allowed to spend money
4) players to stop being paid so much for making us money
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They've waived their right to be listened to. Fans now need to start putting pressure on UEFA not to be twats.
These should be guaranteed:
(i) there should be no pressure put on leagues or associations to scrap or diminish cup competitions or reduce the size of leagues to accommodate extra Champions League Group games. Increase the size if you must but it doesn't need to adversely affect the domestic game. They played twelve group games at the start of the century.
(ii) immediately reverse plans to reserve places in the Champions League for teams based on any sort of historical performance criteria.
(iii) clubs should have to have fans' representation on the Board or be banned from European competition.
(iv) at least 80% of tickets at major finals must be given to fans of competing clubs.
(v) scum like Agnelli and Perez to be compelled to resign, ideally, but at minimum be banned from having any positions of power in the wider game for life.
None of those are unreasonable demands.
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I quite like a Manure fan's suggestion that all teams be deducted 25 points, so Arsenal are relegated.
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Anyone know anything about printing massive loads of t-shirts? Get a few hundred in claret and blue with 'Aston Villa Legacy Fan' across the front, they'll sell like hot cakes, lads.
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This is not going away, the problem is a lack of Governance from the Authorities meaning that the Arms race continues driving clubs into more and more debt to finance player acquisition and wages. This is causing unsustainable business models and driving an increasing demand from the bigger clubs to get bigger and bigger slices of the cake. The situation is exacerbated by the fact that the governing bodies are for profit and also unregulated.
This can only be resolved by Government intervention so don’t hold your breath.
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It has gone away, they tried and failed.
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It just needs the banks to call in the debt of these clubs and they are gone.
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It has gone away, they tried and failed.
But the problem hasn’t
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The big question for me is how much of this was totally greed motivated or was it accompanied with a fair amount of desperation . Obviously some of the clubs don't need the money but if those debts figures flying around for some of the clubs are correct did they look a year down the line and panic? Woodward apparently wasn't happy with FFP according to the UEFA bod. Was that in relation to others or Man U? If it was others then it would be odd to get into bed with them a day later. The Glazers only managed to buy the club using a scaled up version of a Ocean Finance package anyway so they're always vulnerable. Arsenal and Tottenham always give the impression they're not overflowing with the cash before COVID. I can't imagine the Italian clubs are doing better than our clubs financially at the moment and the Spanish big two appear to be financial basket cases. Last gasp of the old order perhaps with those clubs without the Sugardaddies realising they need to cut back spending big time or go tits up?
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It just needs the banks to call in the debt of these clubs and they are gone.
Real would get a bail out again. I'll happily still sign Messi to help Barcelona.
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John Barnes spoke some sense this morning on the subject on BBC Breakfast. Salary caps, Man City with an unfair advantage, proper socialist he was.
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John Barnes spoke some sense this morning on the subject on BBC Breakfast. Salary caps, Man City with an unfair advantage, proper socialist he was.
yeah made a good point about how the remaining PL clubs would have jumped on the bandwagon if they'd been offered access to the ESL whatever their public spiel spouting about protecting the game/fans.
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The big question for me is how much of this was totally greed motivated or was it accompanied with a fair amount of desperation . Obviously some of the clubs don't need the money but if those debts figures flying around for some of the clubs are correct did they look a year down the line and panic? Woodward apparently wasn't happy with FFP according to the UEFA bod. Was that in relation to others or Man U? If it was others then it would be odd to get into bed with them a day later. The Glazers only managed to buy the club using a scaled up version of a Ocean Finance package anyway so they're always vulnerable. Arsenal and Tottenham always give the impression they're not overflowing with the cash before COVID. I can't imagine the Italian clubs are doing better than our clubs financially at the moment and the Spanish big two appear to be financial basket cases. Last gasp of the old order perhaps with those clubs without the Sugardaddies realising they need to cut back spending big time or go tits up?
good post,
Many of these clubs are in Financial distress and this was driven by desperation more than greed.
There is a real possibility of Bankruptcy and why the offer of a huge cash payment via the JPM facility was a massive incentive.
The football authorities are mindful of contagion in the event of a big failure of a major club because of the money owed to other clubs. This is not dissimilar to the European Banking crisis because if one creditor defaults you set off the dominos.
The seriously indebted clubs may have no choice but to look to a restructuring process if they can not secure financial support.
Recent events is going to drive financial market reticence.
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Maybe UEFA should just rebrand the Champions League as the Super League. I mean the whole Champions League thing is a farce now anyway. The majority of the teams in it are not actually champions anyway. When did Tottenham last win the league?
Instead of the crazy idea of the ESL maybe it would be better to go back to the straight forward honest to God knock out competition for champions only. It's got to be more exciting than the tedious never ending group stages.
At the end of the day this all comes down to the fact that Barca, Real Madrid and Juve are skint. Well tough shit. Barca and Real are probably the two most corrupt clubs on earth. If they can't get by with the incredible amounts of money that they generate then they will have to learn to cut their cloth accordingly.
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The big question for me is how much of this was totally greed motivated or was it accompanied with a fair amount of desperation . Obviously some of the clubs don't need the money but if those debts figures flying around for some of the clubs are correct did they look a year down the line and panic? Woodward apparently wasn't happy with FFP according to the UEFA bod. Was that in relation to others or Man U? If it was others then it would be odd to get into bed with them a day later. The Glazers only managed to buy the club using a scaled up version of a Ocean Finance package anyway so they're always vulnerable. Arsenal and Tottenham always give the impression they're not overflowing with the cash before COVID. I can't imagine the Italian clubs are doing better than our clubs financially at the moment and the Spanish big two appear to be financial basket cases. Last gasp of the old order perhaps with those clubs without the Sugardaddies realising they need to cut back spending big time or go tits up?
I think this was led by Perez at RM - which means that it was driven by desperation. By all normal laws of business and economics, RM and Barca should have been liquidated years ago.
Barca weren’t able to pay the wages in January and still owe other clubs £Ms in transfer fees. The fee for Coutinho (sp?) hasn’t been paid and he left 3 years ago.
I’m not sure how these two clubs will recover from this - but they undoubtedly will; propped up by more debt secured on ever diminishing assets
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The scab 6 f-cked up, but I don't feel sorry for their fans. This has been coming for a long time, but I've never noticed them taking an active stance against sky, the premier league, the champions league, dodgy refs, ffp, var, biased coverage on tv and in newspapers etc because all those factors have kept them at the top of the pile at the expense of everyone else. Sure they did well voicing their concerns about the esl, but for me that's like bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted. I'd prefer to feel sorry for the fans of all other clubs not enticed by the esl. Do I think the 6 scum clubs should be punished? Yes. Will it happen? Probably not. Will the 6 continue to be pandered over by the rule makers and visual/written media? Yes.
Remember the champions league was contested by red scouse and spuds a couple of years ago who hadn't won their domestic league in approx 20+ years and 50+ years respectively. Champions of what exactly? The whole thing is a joke and isn't going to get any better. In a few days/weeks this will be brushed away and the likes of sky and the press will be doing the work of the scum 6 unsettling clubs and players again by "speculating" that red scouse want Ollie, or manure want Jack.
Sadly the withdrawal of the 6 from the esl is not the end of this matter. A huge overhaul is needed to ensure these 6 clubs are not favoured going forwards.
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I don't get the idea that 'these clubs shouldn't be punished because it hurts the fans more than the owners'. If a club went bankrupt, or fielded an ineligible player, or failed FFP they would potentially face a points deduction. Fans would have no say or responsibility in those matters either but that would make no difference to the severity of the punishment. What these clubs have done is WAY worse than those examples - they've said that they are bigger and better than everyone else and tried to destroy football for the sake of their own greed for money and power - so why are we suddenly saying that it should all just be swept under the rug? I know that it's most likely that there will be no direct repercussions but personally I think that just shows how much power these big clubs have compared to the Premier League and UEFA.
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The big question for me is how much of this was totally greed motivated or was it accompanied with a fair amount of desperation . Obviously some of the clubs don't need the money but if those debts figures flying around for some of the clubs are correct did they look a year down the line and panic? Woodward apparently wasn't happy with FFP according to the UEFA bod. Was that in relation to others or Man U? If it was others then it would be odd to get into bed with them a day later. The Glazers only managed to buy the club using a scaled up version of a Ocean Finance package anyway so they're always vulnerable. Arsenal and Tottenham always give the impression they're not overflowing with the cash before COVID. I can't imagine the Italian clubs are doing better than our clubs financially at the moment and the Spanish big two appear to be financial basket cases. Last gasp of the old order perhaps with those clubs without the Sugardaddies realising they need to cut back spending big time or go tits up?
I think this was led by Perez at RM - which means that it was driven by desperation. By all normal laws of business and economics, RM and Barca should have been liquidated years ago.
Barca weren’t able to pay the wages in January and still owe other clubs £Ms in transfer fees. The fee for Coutinho (sp?) hasn’t been paid and he left 3 years ago.
I’m not sure how these two clubs will recover from this - but they undoubtedly will; propped up by more debt secured on ever diminishing assets
they ran out of road regarding assets that can be leveraged, the Spanish and Italian clubs are stacked with soft loans, Real has had Government support which is now supposedly ruled out. Manure has to roll over and supplement its Bond at higher cost and less favourable terms and that is before covenant breach.Spurs are fucked because of the stadium and Covid Arsenal have owners that won’t put their own money in.
Woodward is ex JPM
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Henry desperately trying to get Liverpool fans back onside.
https://twitter.com/LFC/status/1384763846557147142?s=19
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I quite like a Manure fan's suggestion that all teams be deducted 25 points, so Arsenal are relegated.
Fuck that. They can all go. Bunch of unscrupulous, self-centred, greedy wankers.
As for revamping Champions League, it should now revert to what it was before, the European Cup (I'd even be prepared to potentially allow a country more than one representative, for the defending champions, UEFA Cup winners and the national cup winners. Its the jeopardy of knockout that makes sport what it is.
I really don't think there will be any punishment, which is a shame. I suspect the reason Chelsea and Man City pulled out is because of the threat of losing a Semi Final place this season.
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I'm a bit surprised UEFA hasn't tried to restructure European club competitions in the small way as the Nations League.
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The scab 6 f-cked up, but I don't feel sorry for their fans. This has been coming for a long time, but I've never noticed them taking an active stance against sky, the premier league, the champions league, dodgy refs, ffp, var, biased coverage on tv and in newspapers etc because all those factors have kept them at the top of the pile at the expense of everyone else. Sure they did well voicing their concerns about the esl, but for me that's like bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted. I'd prefer to feel sorry for the fans of all other clubs not enticed by the esl. Do I think the 6 scum clubs should be punished? Yes. Will it happen? Probably not. Will the 6 continue to be pandered over by the rule makers and visual/written media? Yes.
Remember the champions league was contested by red scouse and spuds a couple of years ago who hadn't won their domestic league in approx 20+ years and 50+ years respectively. Champions of what exactly? The whole thing is a joke and isn't going to get any better. In a few days/weeks this will be brushed away and the likes of sky and the press will be doing the work of the scum 6 unsettling clubs and players again by "speculating" that red scouse want Ollie, or manure want Jack.
Sadly the withdrawal of the 6 from the esl is not the end of this matter. A huge overhaul is needed to ensure these 6 clubs are not favoured going forwards.
Excellent post Abbeyfeale
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It just needs the banks to call in the debt of these clubs and they are gone.
That could be said for most of the clubs up and down this so called 'football pyramid'. In terms of punishments, if UEFA couldn't make their charges stick to Man City and even Chelsea in the not too distant past, there is little chance of repercussions here. Safety in numbers too. If some of these super clubs are feeling the financial pinch, great. Might force them to budget more appropriately for the next few years. The ones backed by Russian and UAE oligarchs will be ok.
If UEFA truly wanted to hurt these teams financially, they would immediately cancel plans for this expanded ECL (which will be an uncompetitive disaster for the most part). But that would mean less revenue for UEFA which is all they care about, less so bastion of sporting integrity and fairness as they claim.
The FA have been a piss weak regulator of club football in England for years. So don't be expecting much action there. Let's not forget our own brush with near insolvency a few years back during the Xia reign of terror.
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I don't think there is any prospect of any immediate punishment/sanctions from either UEFA or PL. Ceferin has already said "they are back in the fold". What should happen now is that UEFA and PL should start rolling back all concessions that have been given to these clubs to "stay in the fold" and effective push back in the future for any new demands. A standard answer something like "No go fuck yourself" should be provided.
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The FA PL can do something just by changing the rules because the same clubs that deserted the Football League with no notice wrote them. 2 year notice before leaving. Forfeiture of tv money during period of notice. Sorted.
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Henry desperately trying to get Liverpool fans back onside.
https://twitter.com/LFC/status/1384763846557147142?s=19
VAR check............offside
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Heh. Poor Henry. Has the demeanour of someone's who's been caught coming out of a massage parlour with a copy of the Sun. Nice to know he shops at Millets though.
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I read somewhere (but who knows whats true and isn't when it comes to this) that breaking the signed contracts could end up with multi-million pound lawsuits.
There could be no greater irony than clubs looking for money getting sued and ending up flogging their assets to cover the damages from their own failings. I look forward to the Levy fire sale.
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I read somewhere (but who knows whats true and isn't when it comes to this) that breaking the signed contracts could end up with multi-million pound lawsuits.
There could be no greater irony than clubs looking for money getting sued and ending up flogging their assets to cover the damages from their own failings. I look forward to the Levy fire sale.
So what assets can Spurs for example sell?
These Clubs are in massive debt.
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I read somewhere (but who knows whats true and isn't when it comes to this) that breaking the signed contracts could end up with multi-million pound lawsuits.
There could be no greater irony than clubs looking for money getting sued and ending up flogging their assets to cover the damages from their own failings. I look forward to the Levy fire sale.
So what assets can Spurs for example sell?
These Clubs are in massive debt.
Kane, Son, Lloris, Alli...
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UEFA are just relieved to have them back and will feel their threats worked, though it's hard to imagine how Perez and Agnelli will be welcome back, and the power of PSG and Bayern will be greatly increased.
The Premier League however, the Not Shit 14, are apparently still rather pissed off.
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Surely something similar will blow up when the new structure is in place and a club qualify for the CL because of their previous European record rather than league position?
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All this "points deductions would be wrong, it punishes the fans who have done nothing wrong" stuff.
Isn't that the case with clubs that get points deductions for going into administration? Or is that the fault of the fans?
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As I'm now reading and hearing the weasel words and mealy mouthed expressions of regret being issued by these clubs to their own supporters, I am actually angrier today than I was yesterday, when their attempt to establish a form of footballing apartheid was still very much alive. I guess we will be waiting rather a long time before we might see any apologies issued to the 14 Premier League clubs who up to yesterday they had been only too keen to set adrift.
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Sell Stadium for flats 600m
Publishing rights for Chas 'n Dave/Hoddle&Waddle back catalogue £37.31
Harry Kane to Bayern 130m
Other player sales 20m
Rent to share West Ham's ground from PornoDwarf 600m(per annum)
Agreement to take on gareth bale's contract 130m (per annum)
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All this "points deductions would be wrong, it punishes the fans who have done nothing wrong" stuff.
Isn't that the case with clubs that get points deductions for going into administration? Or is that the fault of the fans?
Precisely.
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I read somewhere (but who knows whats true and isn't when it comes to this) that breaking the signed contracts could end up with multi-million pound lawsuits.
There could be no greater irony than clubs looking for money getting sued and ending up flogging their assets to cover the damages from their own failings. I look forward to the Levy fire sale.
So what assets can Spurs for example sell?
These Clubs are in massive debt.
Kane, Son, Lloris, Alli...
This is the point, isn't it? These clubs need to cut back the way we did after Lerner decided to turn the taps off, and accept a spell of mediocrity. Sadly, they think their name alone gives them a God-given right to success.
The rest of football most never let itself be shafted merely in order to sustain the gluttonous pricks' dominance.
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As I'm now reading and hearing the weasel words and mealy mouthed expressions of regret being issued by these clubs to their own supporters, I am actually angrier today than I was yesterday, when their attempt to establish a form of footballing apartheid was still very much alive. I guess we will be waiting rather a long time before we might see any apologies issued to the 14 Premier League clubs who up to yesterday they had been only too keen to set adrift.
Yes. Using the "we've listened to the fans" and decided against it is an insult to their and anybody's intelligence. It also begs the question.. if you are making such decisions without sufficient thought process in that decision should you be the head of a football club of such stature?
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All this "points deductions would be wrong, it punishes the fans who have done nothing wrong" stuff.
Isn't that the case with clubs that get points deductions for going into administration? Or is that the fault of the fans?
I agree but think that any punishment needs to be appropriate and proportionate rather than motivated by revenge.
For me the most important thing is to fix the rules preventing a few owners looking to cash in on their assets.
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UEFA should initiate an enquiry as to who were the driving forces behind this plot. Ban the leaders from all European Cup competition for 3 years and the other clubs for 2 years. Also impose a transfer embargo on them for incoming players. UEFA have done this in recent years already, they should do it again.
This alone will send some of the dodgy 12 to bankruptcy. Some star players will leave other clubs and their 'high handedness' will be put in check.
Domestic leagues can carry on as normal so their fans don't get punished. Be great to watch the so called bigger clubs suffer. Be very interesting to see some new faces in the Champions League. Be more of a level playing field. Football as a commodity will retain its high status, and if anything, will be more interesting.
The dodgy 12 owners will lose loads of money and the rest of us can watch in glee.
Could be a good time for Villa to put in a Bid for Kane, De Bruyne and Salah.
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Surely something similar will blow up when the new structure is in place and a club qualify for the CL because of their previous European record rather than league position?
Seems to me UEFA do not need to concede anything now to keep them in the fold, so they just need to say fuck off you blew it, the fans have spoken....
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I think it's telling the English clubs folded first, I don't attribute that to Gary Neville or fan reaction. I think there was a real unknown about just how far Boris Johnson and parliament were willing to go.
Then there was the FA and FIFA dropping broad hints that you can't remain in the the domestic pyramid and the European super league.
I was hoping this would result in Old Trafford being demolished and those wankers relocating to Singapore and the crispy duck pub.
Oh well!
Can't help but wonder if this will speed up Abramovich's visa application.
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Not really sure why people are angry at them. Angry sort of hints you were surprised. Lets face it, if tomorrow someone offered the biggest clubs in the championship and below the chance to form a Premier League 2 at the expense of the likes of Brentford and Watford, then they'd be off without a word, and none of the fans of the clubs invited would give a shit. And that's the fans who do go day-in day out for little reward. Only good thing to come out of this is probably the reaction of the fans of the clubs involved who decided this was a step too far. I don't think they stopped anything realistically, but its nice they still value a "cold night in stoke"
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I was really curious to hear how the fans of the six English clubs were feeling yesterday so I listened to a number of their podcasts (what is wrong with me?). And while there was a lot of anger and sadness, there were also quite a few individuals who were accepting it as a done deal and already talking about how the format would work and how it could be expanded etc. Frankly I couldn't believe that 'hardcore' fans would be willing to move on so quickly. But hey, as long as 'your club' is okay I guess that's all that matters for some.
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I agree with folk on here saying about the wrongs of punishing the fans. It's no different to how, say, Bury were treated. Sorry, it's really harsh and I feel for them, but ultimately we can't have special rules for the Ugly 6. If the clubs left absolutely I'd be totally in support of helping the fan-owned equivalents (e.g. FC United of Manchester) to take their place. However, that's not the case. If these clubs want to come back into the fold that's great, but their actions should not go unpunished.
For me, the main one is excluding them from European competition. I'd probably extend that to expulsion from all cup competitions for a set period.
I'd also think that it's perfectly reasonable to add points deductions for the 2021/22 season in line with, say, the level that Luton Town faced a few seasons back (-30pts).
There should also be financial repercussions, for example a 20% reduction in TV money (or parachute payments) for 3 seasons, with money redistributed to grassroots football.
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I think it's telling the English clubs folded first, I don't attribute that to Gary Neville or fan reaction. I think there was a real unknown about just how far Boris Johnson and parliament were willing to go.
Then there was the FA and FIFA dropping broad hints that you can't remain in the the domestic pyramid and the European super league.
I was hoping this would result in Old Trafford being demolished and those wankers relocating to Singapore and the crispy duck pub.
Oh well!
Can't help but wonder if this will speed up Abramovich's visa application.
Funny how he singles out football when it comes to the free market and the best interests of the people of this country. What about the rest?
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Some of the press this morning are treating Man City and Chelsea as heroes, forgetting they signed up for this 48 hours previously.
I hope that this reset enables the removal of these stupid coefficients, and we move back towards a fairer system. Some hope...
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I think it's telling the English clubs folded first, I don't attribute that to Gary Neville or fan reaction. I think there was a real unknown about just how far Boris Johnson and parliament were willing to go.
Agreed, apparently Villa and the other 13 clubs were reassured in the meeting that the government were willing to drop a "legislative bomb" to ensure the ESL didn't go ahead.
Surely UEFA can ban them from European competition for a number of years just as they did with all English clubs post-Heysel. The clubs involved can hardly threaten to leave and set up their own league now.
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I was really curious to hear how the fans of the six English clubs were feeling yesterday so I listened to a number of their podcasts (what is wrong with me?). And while there was a lot of anger and sadness, there were also quite a few individuals who were accepting it as a done deal and already talking about how the format would work and how it could be expanded etc. Frankly I couldn't believe that 'hardcore' fans would be willing to move on so quickly. But hey, as long as 'your club' is okay I guess that's all that matters for some.
The depressing thing for me was the BBC were interviewing foreign fans of the Premier and they were all for it. Just didn't have a clue about any of the implications of it sadly or didn't care. Haven't bought into the culture or the history of the clubs at all. Just wanted their Real Madrid vs ManU every 2 months. >:(
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All this "points deductions would be wrong, it punishes the fans who have done nothing wrong" stuff.
Isn't that the case with clubs that get points deductions for going into administration? Or is that the fault of the fans?
I agree but think that any punishment needs to be appropriate and proportionate rather than motivated by revenge.
For me the most important thing is to fix the rules preventing a few owners looking to cash in on their assets.
That's how I feel. It's all getting a bit Clemenceau at Versailles on here. They didn't actually leave, they just acted twats. If they apologise and we can get some structure in place that prevents anyone trying this again without mass support throughout the league then I don't particularly want to pursue vengeance.
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It was rather ironic to see a Chelsea fan brandishing a sign that said "you can't buy success" when it's precisely what that club have done.
We're likely to get a good shoeing tonight and the overriding reason for that is the amount of money that our opponents have spent in relation to ourselves and as much as people have been giving it plenty of Rita Hayworth about competition it cannot be ignored that it has been distorted greatly over the last 30 years and reduced that element of the game.
Our owners appear more circumspect when it comes to spending but that could change and we could suddenly find ourselves where Man City are and if so I think I may feel the same as I suspect many Man City fans do, enjoying the success but with a sadness at how it was bought about.
The ESL may have come and gone rather quickly but the game is far from healthy as far as I am concerned.
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I read somewhere (but who knows whats true and isn't when it comes to this) that breaking the signed contracts could end up with multi-million pound lawsuits.
There could be no greater irony than clubs looking for money getting sued and ending up flogging their assets to cover the damages from their own failings. I look forward to the Levy fire sale.
So what assets can Spurs for example sell?
These Clubs are in massive debt.
Kane, Son, Lloris, Alli...
This is the point, isn't it? These clubs need to cut back the way we did after Lerner decided to turn the taps off, and accept a spell of mediocrity. Sadly, they think their name alone gives them a God-given right to success.
The rest of football most never let itself be shafted merely in order to sustain the gluttonous pricks' dominance.
It's exactly the point, they've spent years spending money they haven't got to bully and dominate everyone else, and now it's time to pay it off they decided to try and shaft everyone else instead.
They can have some of what we've had for the last 10 years, the wankers.
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Surely UEFA can ban them from European competition for a number of years just as they did with all English clubs post-Heysel. The clubs involved can hardly threaten to leave and set up their own league now.
Why would UEFA want that? Their main concern was that they would lose their money-spinners from their competitions.
They're not going to punish them by enacting the precise thing that they want to prevent.
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All this "points deductions would be wrong, it punishes the fans who have done nothing wrong" stuff.
Isn't that the case with clubs that get points deductions for going into administration? Or is that the fault of the fans?
I agree but think that any punishment needs to be appropriate and proportionate rather than motivated by revenge.
For me the most important thing is to fix the rules preventing a few owners looking to cash in on their assets.
That's how I feel. It's all getting a bit Clemenceau at Versailles on here. They didn't actually leave, they just acted twats. If they apologise and we can get some structure in place that prevents anyone trying this again without mass support throughout the league then I don't particularly want to pursue vengeance.
It isn't about vengeance at all, it's about securing the future of the game. If there isn't a penalty for throwing a bomb into the domestic and international game then these vultures will see that as weakness and it will be only a matter of time before new plans are formulated which will be better thought through.
Ownership is the key. National Governments can intervene to legislate in a number of areas.
This was a close shave but next time we may not be so lucky.
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I’m curious to know how the actual super league would have worked in reality.
If it had gone ahead it would have been outside the auspices of FIFA and UEFA and so would have had no governing body.
Does that mean they would have set their own rules? Would a new version of football be developed purely for that league with new rules and ideas.
What’s for certain is that they would be totally beholden to their paymasters, the TV companies (even more than now). There would be rule changes to make the game more palatable to the youngsters, because they don’t like the game as it is (apparently).
Ad breaks every ten minutes.....kit plastered in advertisers names....teams renamed (rebranded). Sin bins, timeouts. Free kick special teams who come on only to take a set piece. TV viewers able to vote on who should be substituted.
With no protection from governing bodies, over time I reckon there would be massive infighting and skullduggery between those 12 teams and they’d end up killing each other.
Shame it didn’t happen really.
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All this "points deductions would be wrong, it punishes the fans who have done nothing wrong" stuff.
Isn't that the case with clubs that get points deductions for going into administration? Or is that the fault of the fans?
I agree but think that any punishment needs to be appropriate and proportionate rather than motivated by revenge.
For me the most important thing is to fix the rules preventing a few owners looking to cash in on their assets.
That's how I feel. It's all getting a bit Clemenceau at Versailles on here. They didn't actually leave, they just acted twats. If they apologise and we can get some structure in place that prevents anyone trying this again without mass support throughout the league then I don't particularly want to pursue vengeance.
Guy Fawkes didn't actually blow up Parliament, his attempt didn't work out too well for him and his cronies.
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There's always been rich clubs going back a hundred years or so. . I personally never had a problem with an owner coming in and spending their own money on a club. Things go in cycles whether your a blackburn with Walker or us with Lerner or now even or the "Bank of England Clubs" like Arsenal and Sunderland.
I didn't have a problem with the principal of FFP but to me it always looked like it wasn't to protect clubs overspending but to protect the clubs who were already at the top.
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I wonder what Sheffield United fans think of the "don't punish the fans" narrative. Is it their fault that their team is shite and relegated? It is not. But if your club fucks up - be it by underinvesting, underperforming or colluding to destroy all that's good and right in the game, you should expect there to be consequences
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I'll be honest, I wouldn't be devastated for their fans if they were demoted.
I think in fact, that I would laugh my bollocks off.
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There's always been rich clubs going back a hundred years or so. . I personally never had a problem with an owner coming in and spending their own money on a club. Things go in cycles whether your a blackburn with Walker or us with Lerner or now even or the "Bank of England Clubs" like Arsenal and Sunderland.
I didn't have a problem with the principal of FFP but to me it always looked like it wasn't to protect clubs overspending but to protect the clubs who were already at the top.
Of course it is. It’s to stop oiks like Villa, Leicester, West Ham, Southampton or Leeds closing the gap.
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All this "points deductions would be wrong, it punishes the fans who have done nothing wrong" stuff.
Isn't that the case with clubs that get points deductions for going into administration? Or is that the fault of the fans?
I agree but think that any punishment needs to be appropriate and proportionate rather than motivated by revenge.
For me the most important thing is to fix the rules preventing a few owners looking to cash in on their assets.
That's how I feel. It's all getting a bit Clemenceau at Versailles on here. They didn't actually leave, they just acted twats. If they apologise and we can get some structure in place that prevents anyone trying this again without mass support throughout the league then I don't particularly want to pursue vengeance.
Guy Fawkes didn't actually blow up Parliament
FFS, he had one job. 😡
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Uefa's bargaining position will have been strengthened after this. Hopefully they can do more to focus financial reward on performance rather than track record.
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All these pricks saying "the fans shouldn't suffer because of the owners" can fuck right off. What happened to the mass outpouring of grief when the Glazers saddled ManUre with hundreds of millions worth of debt, FCUM pretty much died on its arse didn't it and OT is still full every week, only a small % of which are daytrippers looking for their EPL fix *vomits*. The fans of all these clubs would have been lapping it up by Christmas and all of this protesting would have been long forgotten when the money started rolling in.
I'm gutted they're all pulling out as I was looking forward to a league where these six clubs no longer concern me. PL and UEFA should throw the book at them all but they won't have the bottle to do so, never in a million years. Then fine Spurs and Arsenal extra as well for even having the fucking brass neck to think they're anywhere near worthy of such status.
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There's always been rich clubs going back a hundred years or so. . I personally never had a problem with an owner coming in and spending their own money on a club. Things go in cycles whether your a blackburn with Walker or us with Lerner or now even or the "Bank of England Clubs" like Arsenal and Sunderland.
I didn't have a problem with the principal of FFP but to me it always looked like it wasn't to protect clubs overspending but to protect the clubs who were already at the top.
Of course it is. It’s to stop oiks like Villa, Leicester, West Ham, Southampton or Leeds closing the gap.
yep. if we'd have gatecrashed the party like City with Lerner, they'd have been all sorts of mutterings about our finances. I mean that transfer ban Chelsea got where they actually got permission from the FA for what got them banned from UEFA/FIFA?! I mean what else can you do than ask your own governing body if its allowed?
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All this "points deductions would be wrong, it punishes the fans who have done nothing wrong" stuff.
Isn't that the case with clubs that get points deductions for going into administration? Or is that the fault of the fans?
I agree but think that any punishment needs to be appropriate and proportionate rather than motivated by revenge.
For me the most important thing is to fix the rules preventing a few owners looking to cash in on their assets.
That's how I feel. It's all getting a bit Clemenceau at Versailles on here. They didn't actually leave, they just acted twats. If they apologise and we can get some structure in place that prevents anyone trying this again without mass support throughout the league then I don't particularly want to pursue vengeance.
Guy Fawkes didn't actually blow up Parliament, his attempt didn't work out too well for him and his cronies.
Neither did he change his mind and leave the gunpowder at home.
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The more I read about this the more I think it was all a massive bluff by the 6 & they never had any intention of going through with any of it.
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All this "points deductions would be wrong, it punishes the fans who have done nothing wrong" stuff.
Isn't that the case with clubs that get points deductions for going into administration? Or is that the fault of the fans?
I agree but think that any punishment needs to be appropriate and proportionate rather than motivated by revenge.
For me the most important thing is to fix the rules preventing a few owners looking to cash in on their assets.
That's how I feel. It's all getting a bit Clemenceau at Versailles on here. They didn't actually leave, they just acted twats. If they apologise and we can get some structure in place that prevents anyone trying this again without mass support throughout the league then I don't particularly want to pursue vengeance.
Guy Fawkes didn't actually blow up Parliament, his attempt didn't work out too well for him and his cronies.
Neither did he change his mind and leave the gunpowder at home.
Ahh, but you could say the fact he let his powder get so wet it was rendered useless was as good as saying "I have no intention of carrying this out."
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I can't see there being any points deductions etc.
My main problem is the through the back door reforms to the Champs League where there's more games (and they'll be moaning about fixture congestion and wanting 5 subs) and big clubs are guaranteed qualification from past achievments. If Utd finish 6th they'd still get a place. I want to see these clubs struggle if they don't qualify, it's the only way there can ever be something approaching a level playing field. The financial gap is already too wide - we shouldn't be bending to these clubs greed and allowing it to widen further.
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The more I read about this the more I think it was all a massive bluff by the 6 & they never had any intention of going through with any of it.
I doubt it. They don't come across as the types who take well to being publicly humiliated. My reading of it is it broke too soon before they had everyone in place, and they were always on the backfoot once UEFA could lobby the likes of Bayern and PSG.
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The more I read about this the more I think it was all a massive bluff by the 6 & they never had any intention of going through with any of it.
I doubt it. They don't come across as the types who take well to being publicly humiliated. My reading of it is it broke too soon before they had everyone in place, and they were always on the backfoot once UEFA could lobby the likes of Bayern and PSG.
It was too much of a gamble to risk their Premier League income, fans, stakeholders etc. The Premier League is too big a Prize to gamble on something that might or might not be as good or better.
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The more I read about this the more I think it was all a massive bluff by the 6 & they never had any intention of going through with any of it.
I think for some owners it was seen as a chance to recoup some money quickly and then sell at an inflated price. I think that’s probably why Chelsea and Man City were the first to break ranks as they appear to have a more long term commitment and are involved for wider reasons on top of purely a money making exercise.
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My main problem is the through the back door reforms to the Champs League where there's more games (and they'll be moaning about fixture congestion and wanting 5 subs) and big clubs are guaranteed qualification from past achievments. If Utd finish 6th they'd still get a place. I want to see these clubs struggle if they don't qualify, it's the only way there can ever be something approaching a level playing field. The financial gap is already too wide - we shouldn't be bending to these clubs greed and allowing it to widen further.
Yep. Next step might as well be 'you scored 3 and they only scored 1, but due to their elite status, they have been awarded the points'.
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The more I read about this the more I think it was all a massive bluff by the 6 & they never had any intention of going through with any of it.
I doubt it. They don't come across as the types who take well to being publicly humiliated. My reading of it is it broke too soon before they had everyone in place, and they were always on the backfoot once UEFA could lobby the likes of Bayern and PSG.
It was too much of a gamble to risk their Premier League income, fans, stakeholders etc. The Premier League is too big a Prize to gamble on something that might or might not be as good or better.
yeah probably was some of that involved. I just think if they'd broken cover with 15 clubs including 2 german teams and PSG then I think City and Chelsea probably wouldn't have got so spooked and it would have been game over for UEFA . Why have 3 unconfirmed teams if they're onboard already? Because they weren't I 'm guessing.
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I can't see there being any points deductions etc.
My main problem is the through the back door reforms to the Champs League where there's more games (and they'll be moaning about fixture congestion and wanting 5 subs) and big clubs are guaranteed qualification from past achievments. If Utd finish 6th they'd still get a place. I want to see these clubs struggle if they don't qualify, it's the only way there can ever be something approaching a level playing field. The financial gap is already too wide - we shouldn't be bending to these clubs greed and allowing it to widen further.
Agree completely and this for me is a key issue. Whilst everybody is happy the ESL isn't going ahead, a select few clubs are going to make a large fortune based solely on their lobbying powers inside UEFA. It stinks almost as much as the ESL.
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I reckon Bayern and PSG have played this perfectly and probably increased their influence over UEFA massively as a result.
"Yeah honestly, we'll join next year, you just go out and announce it first. The fans will love it"
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I'm 99% sure there will be no significant punishment. It'll all be guff about rebuilding bridges, coming back together for the strength of the league, more open to fan consultation and a load of other meaningless waffle.
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One aspect of this whole episode I've not seen mentioned much is the role Sky have taken. Probably because this is the one time in a decade when 'Breaking News' actually means something ...
Most people are getting their information and much of their 'take' on this from the Sky coverage so they bear a bit of scrutiny.
- 'The Top 6' idea is one created, heavily promoted and massively supported by Sky. Remember all the discussions about no-one in previous years getting a look-in for live games, the select few always being the ones for 'in-depth' puff pieces and filmed inserts of their star players and managers?
- Their coverage in the early parts of this story was consistently NOT from the fans and society point of view; most emphatically not. They covered it as a business/financial news organisation would cover a story, not as a sports story. Implicitly taking the owners' viewpoint therefore. 'It's just business, don't take it personally.'
- It's only when the fan reaction, the drastic threats from FIFA and UEFA and (*spit*) BoJo the Dancing Clown weighed into the fray that the narrative changed. They did not do that, they just noticed it.
- How do you think they have all these 'inside contacts' that feed them their scoops? The organisation is embedded deep within these large companies because they allow them to act as their stenographers.
I think some of their reporting today has been pretty hypocritical and it shows. I hope to god they don't try to claim a social heart on all this; that would be too much for my stomach to bear.
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This needs to be the start and not the end. Uefa and Fifa should be next up, they're shown themselves as completely useless and corrupt time and time again and have allowed those few clubs to dictate for decades. All it's took is for one government to suggest intervening and the cartel has completely shit itself, showing that they can be held to account if the will is there.
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I’m not sure that’s entirely fair re Sky. Of course at first they reported it as a news story as that’s all they had to go on but Gary Neville was the first person I heard commenting on it and he was vociferous and eloquent in his condemnation. On their match coverage they had plenty of comment from within the game similarly condemning the proposals. They’ve already lost a lot of their content to BT and this would have been another, and I use the word loosely, competition that they didn’t have the rights to,.
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Hang on, Gary Neville was on it immediately and was one of the most powerful voices against it throughout.
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I hated Neville as a player (although he was good) but he's brilliant at his current job, and has been great on this farrago.
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One of Liverpool's sponsors has pulled the plug because of their involvement in the ESL, only a minor one (Tribus) but hopefully a sign of things to come.
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This needs to be the start and not the end. Uefa and Fifa should be next up, they're shown themselves as completely useless and corrupt time and time again and have allowed those few clubs to dictate for decades. All it's took is for one government to suggest intervening and the cartel has completely shit itself, showing that they can be held to account if the will is there.
Actions should have consequences. There must be a penalty for what would have been a heinous act, not only destroying the whole football pyramid structure but also putting livelihoods at risk.
There is a big responsibility for the governing bodies to step up and take punitive action be it points deduction or banning them from European competition for a fixed period. If they are simply welcomed back in, I think it would be a longer term disaster.
The one glimmer of hope that has come out of this is that the wheels are now in motion to overhaul the governance in this country alongside an independent regulator. Can’t see anything changing with UEFA, however.
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Sky also had a vested interest in it not going ahead.
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Fans up and down the country, but particularly those groups of the six have been the main driver for this turnaround. It's not about Sky, or any other media.
The government and governing bodies throwing their rebukes in have all helped too.
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If they are allowed to just carry on as normal then that is more of a travesty of justice as them trying to fuck off in the first place.
I am actually not happy it has collapsed - as i would have enjoyed the slow death as games kicked off and no one was watching. To see United, Liverpool and the wannabees Spurs self destruct would have been worth it all
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If they are allowed to just carry on as normal then that is more of a travesty of justice as them trying to fuck off in the first place.
I am actually not happy it has collapsed - as i would have enjoyed the slow death as games kicked off and no one was watching. To see United, Liverpool and the wannabees Spurs self destruct would have been worth it all
I know what you mean, I feel a bit let down, though it was quite heartwarming to see the level of vitriol it created along the way, and as PR exercise it's sensationally bad, Gerald Ratner x 12
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If they are allowed to just carry on as normal then that is more of a travesty of justice as them trying to fuck off in the first place.
I am actually not happy it has collapsed - as i would have enjoyed the slow death as games kicked off and no one was watching. To see United, Liverpool and the wannabees Spurs self destruct would have been worth it all
Who's to say they still won't self destruct, Spuds are in debt to the tune of £900 million, United are in big debt and FSG want to sell Liverpool, sponsors are already pulling out, this is going to run a while longer & isn't going to just go away.
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If they are allowed to just carry on as normal then that is more of a travesty of justice as them trying to fuck off in the first place.
I am actually not happy it has collapsed - as i would have enjoyed the slow death as games kicked off and no one was watching. To see United, Liverpool and the wannabees Spurs self destruct would have been worth it all
Who's to say they still won't self destruct, Spuds are in debt to the tune of £900 million, United are in big debt and FSG want to sell Liverpool, sponsors are already pulling out, this is going to run a while longer & isn't going to just go away.
agree, there are significant problems and this was a desperate to shore up the Balance sheets of some of these clubs.
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If they are allowed to just carry on as normal then that is more of a travesty of justice as them trying to fuck off in the first place.
I am actually not happy it has collapsed - as i would have enjoyed the slow death as games kicked off and no one was watching. To see United, Liverpool and the wannabees Spurs self destruct would have been worth it all
Who's to say they still won't self destruct, Spuds are in debt to the tune of £900 million, United are in big debt and FSG want to sell Liverpool, sponsors are already pulling out, this is going to run a while longer & isn't going to just go away.
We should offer to help Daniel in their hour of need, like he did for us. £5m plus El Ghazi for Kane.
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If they are allowed to just carry on as normal then that is more of a travesty of justice as them trying to fuck off in the first place.
I am actually not happy it has collapsed - as i would have enjoyed the slow death as games kicked off and no one was watching. To see United, Liverpool and the wannabees Spurs self destruct would have been worth it all
Who's to say they still won't self destruct, Spuds are in debt to the tune of £900 million, United are in big debt and FSG want to sell Liverpool, sponsors are already pulling out, this is going to run a while longer & isn't going to just go away.
We should offer to help Daniel in their hour of need, like he did for us. £5m plus El Ghazi for Kane.
Fuck that. let them have Elmo and £4m
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This needs to be the start and not the end. Uefa and Fifa should be next up, they're shown themselves as completely useless and corrupt time and time again and have allowed those few clubs to dictate for decades. All it's took is for one government to suggest intervening and the cartel has completely shit itself, showing that they can be held to account if the will is there.
Actions should have consequences. There must be a penalty for what would have been a heinous act, not only destroying the whole football pyramid structure but also putting livelihoods at risk.
There is a big responsibility for the governing bodies to step up and take punitive action be it points deduction or banning them from European competition for a fixed period. If they are simply welcomed back in, I think it would be a longer term disaster.
The one glimmer of hope that has come out of this is that the wheels are now in motion to overhaul the governance in this country alongside an independent regulator. Can’t see anything changing with UEFA, however.
I couldn't agree more.
I've seen a lot of talk on social media, making the distinction between the owners of the clubs and the staff/fans, which I suppose is fair enough. However, that is no reason not to punish these clubs.
I haven't been able to keep up with the talk on here, so this may have been covered, but I have been wondering about what our owners would have done, if we'd been invited. Call me naive, but I'm pretty confident that they would have rejected the proposal. They have built a close relationship with the fans already, what with the consultation groups etc (not sure if the 'big 6' do this as well, though), so I would really like to think that no decision would have been made without gauging fan reaction first. We're a long way off finding this out for sure though.
Assuming we did say 'no', though, which is admittedly a bit of a stretch, does that mean we're a better club than these other six clubs? Not really*. It just means we might have owners that care more about the fans than their owners, so we're lucky. Just like we were unlucky that we had an owner with shit shoes that took us to the brink of extinction a few years ago. Man City and Chelsea, in particular, have only enjoyed any success at all in the last 10/20 years because of their owners - they got lucky. But now their fans aren't happy - well, tough. Go ask a Newcastle fan, for example, what it's like having a shitty owner - there will be a lot less Nou Camp and a lot more Rotherham in their stories.
It's a lottery. Does this system need fixing? Absolutely. But there's no way these clubs should escape punishment just because they are at behest of their owners. We all are. It's utter horseshit, but if fans of the most successful** teams in the country are looking for sympathy or leniency from the rest of us, I'm afraid there's more chance of Spurs actually winning something.
There was no real outcry when Wednesday, or even Blues, were having points deducted. Let alone what's become of Bury, Portsmouth, Blackpool, Bolton etc etc. The 'big six' are no different and it's about time they were reminded of that.
Maybe, once this lot have felt some of the real implications of having a terrible owner, change is more likely to occur. I just hope the authorities have the balls to do it - the future of the sport genuinely depends on it.
*We are, obviously
**They're not, obviously
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The fans have had to put up with success on the back of their owners getting them into debt, so now they can put up without it to pay it back.
No club has any God-given right to be at the top of the game in perpetuity; if that were the case we'd still be there.
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Anyway, relegate the 6 to the Championship forthwith. Then they'll know competition, starting the season knowing half of them at least will still be stuck in it the next year. And tell them they're not getting a penny of parachute money as well.
Promote the top 9 in the Championship, and let's go. It would sort back out over time but they'd lose the unfair advantage they've been building up at everyone else's expense.
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The fans have had to put up with success on the back of their owners getting them into debt, so now they can put up without it to pay it back.
No club has any God-given right to be at the top of the game in perpetuity; if that were the case we'd still be there.
Well said.
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The fans have had to put up with success on the back of their owners getting them into debt, so now they can put up without it to pay it back.
No club has any God-given right to be at the top of the game in perpetuity; if that were the case we'd still be there.
Well said.
It is well said, but - as others have highlighted - EUFA may well reward the 'more established European clubs' with easy entry to Euro competitions.
It's the fundamental principle of meritocracy that is at risk in all of this.
As a footnote, our owners need to spend big and wisely this summer, before any further restrictive governance is put in place.
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If they are allowed to just carry on as normal then that is more of a travesty of justice as them trying to fuck off in the first place.
I am actually not happy it has collapsed - as i would have enjoyed the slow death as games kicked off and no one was watching. To see United, Liverpool and the wannabees Spurs self destruct would have been worth it all
Who's to say they still won't self destruct, Spuds are in debt to the tune of £900 million, United are in big debt and FSG want to sell Liverpool, sponsors are already pulling out, this is going to run a while longer & isn't going to just go away.
We should offer to help Daniel in their hour of need, like he did for us. £5m plus El Ghazi for Kane.
Fuck that. let them have Elmo and £4m
That is some serious debt Spurs are in for a small club.
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This is great from the Spirit of Shankly lot...
https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1384841145323343875
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Just wonder if they caught wind that the other 14 properly discussed kicking them out of the Premier League at their meeting yesterday and realised the severity of the situation they faced.
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for me I don’t think the American owners give a shit about UEFA or FIFA or the other 14 clubs or the so-called Football family of supporters
What they thought was as long as their own supporters were getting Guaranteed Champions/Super League football every year with massive income streams to Hoover up all the best players they would all be on side as would the managers and players and they would drive it through not giving two hoots about any of the other football clubs left behind
What they didn’t bank on was Chelsea fans protesting in the street Liverpool fans protesting at their ground etc saying this isn’t the way we want it
High profile ex-players from their own clubs calling them scavengers was never a part of how they thought it would play out
that for me is why it never went ahead
For all its faults this country has a love of sport and a sense of fair play which marks it out
American Sporting franchise holders just can’t get their head around that and just don’t understand it
I don’t even think it’s the same in mainland Europe if it wasn’t for the English clubs backing down it would all still be going forward
As Dean Smith said he’s never seen Football come together like it did with this threat of a super league and in a lot of ways it it was good to see
(i’m also aware that one of our joint owners is also American)
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This is great from the Spirit of Shankly lot...
https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1384841145323343875
It's certainly spot on about UEFA and the new Champions league deal. It's one step away from the ESL proposal though I imagine it will all get brushed under the carpet.
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Spurs can knock 15-20% off their debt by selling Kane and Son this summer. Same with Liverpool selling Salah & Mane (if anybody can afford them). Fuck them, let them compete on a level playing field like the rest of us.
The Champions league was a terrible development in footballing, it's just skewed finances too far. Extending it with some almost guaranteed entries is a terrible idea.
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Yeah, when we were in the shit Tottenham tried to rip us off and take Grealish off us for pennies. When they're in the shit, even though they have a new stadium funded mostly by taxpayers, we should bend the rules to help them out? Bollocks.
We'll give you thirty million for Kane and Son. Now shut up moaning and take the money.
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This is great from the Spirit of Shankly lot...
https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1384841145323343875
It's certainly spot on about UEFA and the new Champions league deal. It's one step away from the ESL proposal though I imagine it will all get brushed under the carpet.
The thing is wasn't this change, the original champs league changes and all that put in place because the big clubs keep on moaning and threatening their own leagues. Yes, UEFA will pocket extra cash but this week just shows that it is the pressure from the big clubs always wanting more doing these changes and most times the authorities probably wouldn't change it alot.
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I can't see there being any points deductions etc.
My main problem is the through the back door reforms to the Champs League where there's more games (and they'll be moaning about fixture congestion and wanting 5 subs) and big clubs are guaranteed qualification from past achievments. If Utd finish 6th they'd still get a place. I want to see these clubs struggle if they don't qualify, it's the only way there can ever be something approaching a level playing field. The financial gap is already too wide - we shouldn't be bending to these clubs greed and allowing it to widen further.
Yes, in the spirit of 'fairness and compromise' I can see the five subs rule (as a minimum) getting through now. Which on its own will let the Wanky 6 stockpile more players and guarantee them more game time.Thus weighting the thing in their favour even more. But give Pep and Klopp what they want because they spoke out for the greater good when the heinous ESL looked like coming to pass for a moment.
One aspect of this whole episode I've not seen mentioned much is the role Sky have taken. Probably because this is the one time in a decade when 'Breaking News' actually means something ...
Most people are getting their information and much of their 'take' on this from the Sky coverage so they bear a bit of scrutiny.
- 'The Top 6' idea is one created, heavily promoted and massively supported by Sky. Remember all the discussions about no-one in previous years getting a look-in for live games, the select few always being the ones for 'in-depth' puff pieces and filmed inserts of their star players and managers?
- Their coverage in the early parts of this story was consistently NOT from the fans and society point of view; most emphatically not. They covered it as a business/financial news organisation would cover a story, not as a sports story. Implicitly taking the owners' viewpoint therefore. 'It's just business, don't take it personally.'
- It's only when the fan reaction, the drastic threats from FIFA and UEFA and (*spit*) BoJo the Dancing Clown weighed into the fray that the narrative changed. They did not do that, they just noticed it.
- How do you think they have all these 'inside contacts' that feed them their scoops? The organisation is embedded deep within these large companies because they allow them to act as their stenographers.
I think some of their reporting today has been pretty hypocritical and it shows.
As others have said, Neville was vocal on the subject. But it's interesting how forthright he was allowed to be when it was something clearly against the interests of Sky.
When there have been managers and fans at all parts of the food chain complaining about scheduling and moving kick-off times etc that gets minimised to phuck and you won't hear lengthy debates from Neville and co.
You've got the TV money, what more do you want. We've got the canned crowd noise, we don't really need you anyway.
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Spurs can knock 15-20% off their debt by selling Kane and Son this summer. Same with Liverpool selling Salah & Mane (if anybody can afford them). Fuck them, let them compete on a level playing field like the rest of us.
The Champions league was a terrible development in footballing, it's just skewed finances too far. Extending it with some almost guaranteed entries is a terrible idea.
Kane is a fine player but who can afford an injury prone (who suffers the same type of injury) 28 year old with 3+ years on their contract. Citeh or PSG could but is he their type of player? I doubt it.
Unless Spurs wanted to accept a much lower than expected fee, which is counterproductive when dealing with their debt, then I can’t see it happening.
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Spurs and their supernegotiator appear to have done badly at a negotiation. Again. They can fuck off, and take their stadium with them. See also: Arsenal, who at least don't pretend not to be a clown show.
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This is great from the Spirit of Shankly lot...
https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1384841145323343875
It's certainly spot on about UEFA and the new Champions league deal. It's one step away from the ESL proposal though I imagine it will all get brushed under the carpet.
It's correct but nothing different than has been discussed on H&V.
The fans of the scab 6 could learn a lot by talking and listening to the fans of the PL14 whose clubs didn't try to sh-t on everybody else.
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Spurs can knock 15-20% off their debt by selling Kane and Son this summer. Same with Liverpool selling Salah & Mane (if anybody can afford them). Fuck them, let them compete on a level playing field like the rest of us.
The Champions league was a terrible development in footballing, it's just skewed finances too far. Extending it with some almost guaranteed entries is a terrible idea.
Kane is a fine player but who can afford an injury prone (who suffers the same type of injury) 28 year old with 3+ years on their contract. Citeh or PSG could but is he their type of player? I doubt it.
Unless Spurs wanted to accept a much lower than expected fee, which is counterproductive when dealing with their debt, then I can’t see it happening.
Kane is arguably the best striker in the world in his prime. I know a lot of clubs are skint but I still think clubs will fall over eachother to buy him.
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This is great from the Spirit of Shankly lot...
https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1384841145323343875
It's certainly spot on about UEFA and the new Champions league deal. It's one step away from the ESL proposal though I imagine it will all get brushed under the carpet.
It's correct but nothing different than has been discussed on H&V.
The fans of the scab 6 could learn a lot by talking and listening to the fans of the PL14 whose clubs didn't try to sh-t on everybody else.
And vice versa. It was protests from the supporters of those six clubs that made the difference. Their owners wouldn’t have given a shit if it was just Villa or Leeds or Everton fans protesting. But because it was their own fans they had to listen.
And SoS aren’t talking about making things better just for Liverpool, they are talking about making things better for the fans of every club.
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After the protests last night, Spurs fans unite to call out Levy and his part in the ESL before the game. ;D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzgdZ9oX0AMC-5B?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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Spurs can knock 15-20% off their debt by selling Kane and Son this summer. Same with Liverpool selling Salah & Mane (if anybody can afford them). Fuck them, let them compete on a level playing field like the rest of us.
The Champions league was a terrible development in footballing, it's just skewed finances too far. Extending it with some almost guaranteed entries is a terrible idea.
Kane is a fine player but who can afford an injury prone (who suffers the same type of injury) 28 year old with 3+ years on their contract. Citeh or PSG could but is he their type of player? I doubt it.
Unless Spurs wanted to accept a much lower than expected fee, which is counterproductive when dealing with their debt, then I can’t see it happening.
Kane is arguably the best striker in the world in his prime. I know a lot of clubs are skint but I still think clubs will fall over eachother to buy him.
I think the teams likely to be able to afford him would be after Mbappe or Haaland first.
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This is great from the Spirit of Shankly lot...
https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1384841145323343875
It's certainly spot on about UEFA and the new Champions league deal. It's one step away from the ESL proposal though I imagine it will all get brushed under the carpet.
It's correct but nothing different than has been discussed on H&V.
The fans of the scab 6 could learn a lot by talking and listening to the fans of the PL14 whose clubs didn't try to sh-t on everybody else.
And vice versa. It was protests from the supporters of those six clubs that made the difference. Their owners wouldn’t have given a shit if it was just Villa or Leeds or Everton fans protesting. But because it was their own fans they had to listen.
And SoS aren’t talking about making things better just for Liverpool, they are talking about making things better for the fans of every club.
Like I said, they're not saying anything different to what Villa fans are saying and no doubt fans of other PL clubs not involved in the esl.
Leeds had a 200 strong protest, Chelsea 1000, but I suspect the pressure from the PL14 and eufa/fifa (as well as from some quarters of the media) was more telling.
What is demonstrated is that the owners, ceo's of the 6 didn't even understand their own supporters in making the decisions they did. I can sympathise with them for that at least.
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Spurs can knock 15-20% off their debt by selling Kane and Son this summer. Same with Liverpool selling Salah & Mane (if anybody can afford them). Fuck them, let them compete on a level playing field like the rest of us.
The Champions league was a terrible development in footballing, it's just skewed finances too far. Extending it with some almost guaranteed entries is a terrible idea.
Kane is a fine player but who can afford an injury prone (who suffers the same type of injury) 28 year old with 3+ years on their contract. Citeh or PSG could but is he their type of player? I doubt it.
Unless Spurs wanted to accept a much lower than expected fee, which is counterproductive when dealing with their debt, then I can’t see it happening.
Kane is arguably the best striker in the world in his prime. I know a lot of clubs are skint but I still think clubs will fall over eachother to buy him.
I think the teams likely to be able to afford him would be after Mbappe or Haaland first.
But who are these teams? Most of the top clubs are in debt. Citeh and Chelsea have money but not bottomless and there is the FP rules etc
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Another mealy mouthed apology from Joel Glazer. All of them are not sorry they tried, they're sorry they failed. They've not done anything right they've just been dissuaded from doing the wrong thing.
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If no clubs are willing or able to pay mega money for Kane and Spurs have to sell then they will have to drop his price. Either that or he agrees to a significant wage cut.
Same with RM and Barcelona - if they need to sell players to repay debts then they have to do that. A few years in the wilderness won't do these fuckers any harm and it might have the benefit of adjusting their attitude.
I have got no time for the argument that it isn't their fans fault therefore it isn't fair to mete out punishments to the clubs involved. Of course it isn't the fans' fault, but other fans have had to suffer incompetent ownership and no one gave a fuck. It's just another part of football and they should not be protected.
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This is great from the Spirit of Shankly lot...
https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1384841145323343875
It's certainly spot on about UEFA and the new Champions league deal. It's one step away from the ESL proposal though I imagine it will all get brushed under the carpet.
It's correct but nothing different than has been discussed on H&V.
The fans of the scab 6 could learn a lot by talking and listening to the fans of the PL14 whose clubs didn't try to sh-t on everybody else.
And vice versa. It was protests from the supporters of those six clubs that made the difference. Their owners wouldn’t have given a shit if it was just Villa or Leeds or Everton fans protesting. But because it was their own fans they had to listen.
And SoS aren’t talking about making things better just for Liverpool, they are talking about making things better for the fans of every club.
Like I said, they're not saying anything different to what Villa fans are saying and no doubt fans of other PL clubs not involved in the esl.
Leeds had a 200 strong protest, Chelsea 1000, but I suspect the pressure from the PL14 and eufa/fifa (as well as from some quarters of the media) was more telling.
What is demonstrated is that the owners, ceo's of the 6 didn't even understand their own supporters in making the decisions they did. I can sympathise with them for that at least.
I think we’re going to have to sympathise with them a lot more than that if we don’t want to have to rely on the likes of Uefa/Fifa, the Prem and SKY/BT to ‘protect’ football.
The only way to stop money running the game to an ever-increasing extent is to stand together with fans of every club.
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This is great from the Spirit of Shankly lot...
https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1384841145323343875
It's certainly spot on about UEFA and the new Champions league deal. It's one step away from the ESL proposal though I imagine it will all get brushed under the carpet.
Absolutely this. This is worst thing that has happened this week.
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(i’m also aware that one of our joint owners is also American)
And, IMO, having made his money from equity investing he wouldn't act any differently if we were in the same position as the scab6.
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Seems like ECA is actually ready, in the absence of the Scab 12, to challenge the awful idea of 2 extra places for being 'big'. The counter proposal is some sort of qualification bypass for champions of smaller leagues, which would be an absolutely massive improvement.
I'm slightly surprised by this, as outside of England the kind of sides most likely to miss out from a bad year (Napoli, Sevilla, Roma who were even mentioned by Agnelli months ago defending the idea) are the most powerful remaining in the ECA, but cool, whatever works.
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I’m sure the fans and players of Bury and Bolton didn’t want shitty owners destroying their clubs from the inside.
But they were punished with points deductions and expulsion.
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One of Liverpool's sponsors has pulled the plug because of their involvement in the ESL, only a minor one (Tribus) but hopefully a sign of things to come.
Carragher quipped that he had already got a watch from them so he was sorted. I know he was having a laugh but having bantz on "greed" seemed a bit off-key.
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Seems like ECA is actually ready, in the absence of the Scab 12, to challenge the awful idea of 2 extra places for being 'big'. The counter proposal is some sort of qualification bypass for champions of smaller leagues, which would be an absolutely massive improvement.
This would be a great first gesture to show that football has actually listened.
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(i’m also aware that one of our joint owners is also American)
And, IMO, having made his money from equity investing he wouldn't act any differently if we were in the same position as the scab6.
We all like to think they would be different but that we will never know
I really don’t know about our joint owners how they would’ve played it
they’ve not put a foot wrong so far and have saved us from oblivion
so I’m going to take their side on all matters as it stands
I do think Purslow would not have been able to get his pen out fast enough though
But again Sheer conjecture
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This is great from the Spirit of Shankly lot...
https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1384841145323343875
It's certainly spot on about UEFA and the new Champions league deal. It's one step away from the ESL proposal though I imagine it will all get brushed under the carpet.
It's correct but nothing different than has been discussed on H&V.
The fans of the scab 6 could learn a lot by talking and listening to the fans of the PL14 whose clubs didn't try to sh-t on everybody else.
And vice versa. It was protests from the supporters of those six clubs that made the difference. Their owners wouldn’t have given a shit if it was just Villa or Leeds or Everton fans protesting. But because it was their own fans they had to listen.
And SoS aren’t talking about making things better just for Liverpool, they are talking about making things better for the fans of every club.
Like I said, they're not saying anything different to what Villa fans are saying and no doubt fans of other PL clubs not involved in the esl.
Leeds had a 200 strong protest, Chelsea 1000, but I suspect the pressure from the PL14 and eufa/fifa (as well as from some quarters of the media) was more telling.
What is demonstrated is that the owners, ceo's of the 6 didn't even understand their own supporters in making the decisions they did. I can sympathise with them for that at least.
I think we’re going to have to sympathise with them a lot more than that if we don’t want to have to rely on the likes of Uefa/Fifa, the Prem and SKY/BT to ‘protect’ football.
The only way to stop money running the game to an ever-increasing extent is to stand together with fans of every club.
You'll have to excuse me if I don't hold my breath regarding the fans of the scab 6. After all it's not like they've protested much in the years leading up to their clubs' collective brainfarts this week when everyone could see champions league and ffp (amongst other things) would benefit them at the expence of everybody else. My hope is that the PL14 will effect change on the domestic scene and then it's up to the European bodies to do their job.
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So Man City are brilliant champions elect and what of Spurs? Great comeback.
It's forgotten already.
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No it isn't. They're hardly going to refuse to talk about matches that are taking place until every one of those clubs' employees has been tarred and feathered.
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We all like to think they would be different but that we will never know
I really don’t know about our joint owners how they would’ve played it
they’ve not put a foot wrong so far and have saved us from oblivion
so I’m going to take their side on all matters as it stands
I do think Purslow would not have been able to get his pen out fast enough though
But again Sheer conjecture
I saw Sawiris at Villa Park a few times last season. He celebrated like a mad man when we scored. I think he and his family are rich enough that they wouldn't need to be swayed financially. I guess we'll never know as we probably weren't invited. but other teams are never going to vote for something that then precludes them from a certain competition.
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https://reclaimourgame.com/
All their requests seem reasonable enough to me. Hopefully they or another organisation can keep up the pressure for reform and, at the least, persuade UEFA to rethink the horrible Champions League reforms.
I'd like to think the fan power that prevented the creation of the Scab League would be the start rather than the end of a movement for change.
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This is great from the Spirit of Shankly lot...
https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1384841145323343875
It's certainly spot on about UEFA and the new Champions league deal. It's one step away from the ESL proposal though I imagine it will all get brushed under the carpet.
It's correct but nothing different than has been discussed on H&V.
The fans of the scab 6 could learn a lot by talking and listening to the fans of the PL14 whose clubs didn't try to sh-t on everybody else.
And vice versa. It was protests from the supporters of those six clubs that made the difference. Their owners wouldn’t have given a shit if it was just Villa or Leeds or Everton fans protesting. But because it was their own fans they had to listen.
And SoS aren’t talking about making things better just for Liverpool, they are talking about making things better for the fans of every club.
Like I said, they're not saying anything different to what Villa fans are saying and no doubt fans of other PL clubs not involved in the esl.
Leeds had a 200 strong protest, Chelsea 1000, but I suspect the pressure from the PL14 and eufa/fifa (as well as from some quarters of the media) was more telling.
What is demonstrated is that the owners, ceo's of the 6 didn't even understand their own supporters in making the decisions they did. I can sympathise with them for that at least.
I think we’re going to have to sympathise with them a lot more than that if we don’t want to have to rely on the likes of Uefa/Fifa, the Prem and SKY/BT to ‘protect’ football.
The only way to stop money running the game to an ever-increasing extent is to stand together with fans of every club.
You'll have to excuse me if I don't hold my breath regarding the fans of the scab 6. After all it's not like they've protested much in the years leading up to their clubs' collective brainfarts this week when everyone could see champions league and ffp (amongst other things) would benefit them at the expence of everybody else. My hope is that the PL14 will effect change on the domestic scene and then it's up to the European bodies to do their job.
PL14 as the good guys? My turn not to hold my breath.
Incidentally, where did the name scab 6 come from?
A scab, as the old definition goes, is a powerless person who destroys the only power the powerless have.
The 6 have more power than anybody else and want even more of it.
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One of Liverpool's sponsors has pulled the plug because of their involvement in the ESL, only a minor one (Tribus) but hopefully a sign of things to come.
Carragher quipped that he had already got a watch from them so he was sorted. I know he was having a laugh but having bantz on "greed" seemed a bit off-key.
Carragher misjudging a situation and being a twat? No way?
I'm still amazed this never gets mentioned any more; he's just a classless twat.
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Incidentally, where did the name scab 6 come from?
A scab, as the old definition goes, is a powerless person who destroys the only power the powerless have.
The 6 have more power than anybody else and want even more of it.
A scab, to me, has always been a person who breaks rank. Normally those who stitched you up in school playground or at work those who walked past picket lines etc. So I think scab 6 is a fitting title.
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Yes, Aftab. They broke the solidarity with their notional 14 partners. They are scabs.
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This is great from the Spirit of Shankly lot...
https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1384841145323343875
It's certainly spot on about UEFA and the new Champions league deal. It's one step away from the ESL proposal though I imagine it will all get brushed under the carpet.
It's correct but nothing different than has been discussed on H&V.
The fans of the scab 6 could learn a lot by talking and listening to the fans of the PL14 whose clubs didn't try to sh-t on everybody else.
And vice versa. It was protests from the supporters of those six clubs that made the difference. Their owners wouldn’t have given a shit if it was just Villa or Leeds or Everton fans protesting. But because it was their own fans they had to listen.
And SoS aren’t talking about making things better just for Liverpool, they are talking about making things better for the fans of every club.
Like I said, they're not saying anything different to what Villa fans are saying and no doubt fans of other PL clubs not involved in the esl.
Leeds had a 200 strong protest, Chelsea 1000, but I suspect the pressure from the PL14 and eufa/fifa (as well as from some quarters of the media) was more telling.
What is demonstrated is that the owners, ceo's of the 6 didn't even understand their own supporters in making the decisions they did. I can sympathise with them for that at least.
I think we’re going to have to sympathise with them a lot more than that if we don’t want to have to rely on the likes of Uefa/Fifa, the Prem and SKY/BT to ‘protect’ football.
The only way to stop money running the game to an ever-increasing extent is to stand together with fans of every club.
You'll have to excuse me if I don't hold my breath regarding the fans of the scab 6. After all it's not like they've protested much in the years leading up to their clubs' collective brainfarts this week when everyone could see champions league and ffp (amongst other things) would benefit them at the expence of everybody else. My hope is that the PL14 will effect change on the domestic scene and then it's up to the European bodies to do their job.
PL14 as the good guys? My turn not to hold my breath.
Incidentally, where did the name scab 6 come from?
A scab, as the old definition goes, is a powerless person who destroys the only power the powerless have.
The 6 have more power than anybody else and want even more of it.
Please whatever you do, don't hold your breath!
Are Villa not one of the good guys then?
That's a strange interpretation of what's happened this week.
Sky 6 or scab 6 all the same to me.
Enjoy your day!
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I’ve read Perez’s latest statement. It translates to - “waaah, waaah, waaaaaah. Real Madrid can’t afford anyone.”
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Everyone stop being beastly to Real Madrid. I think it's perfectly reasonable to change the whole set up of European football so they can buy who they want for a squillion pounds. I've asked my boss for a pay rise because I can't afford a Ferrari, can't imagine him saying no.
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He was whingeing that Real and Barca lose money when, like, IT WOULD BE EASIER IF YOU DIDN'T SPUNK IT ALL ON STRIKERS YOU DON'T NEED.
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This is great from the Spirit of Shankly lot...
https://twitter.com/spiritofshankly/status/1384841145323343875
It's certainly spot on about UEFA and the new Champions league deal. It's one step away from the ESL proposal though I imagine it will all get brushed under the carpet.
It's correct but nothing different than has been discussed on H&V.
The fans of the scab 6 could learn a lot by talking and listening to the fans of the PL14 whose clubs didn't try to sh-t on everybody else.
And vice versa. It was protests from the supporters of those six clubs that made the difference. Their owners wouldn’t have given a shit if it was just Villa or Leeds or Everton fans protesting. But because it was their own fans they had to listen.
And SoS aren’t talking about making things better just for Liverpool, they are talking about making things better for the fans of every club.
Like I said, they're not saying anything different to what Villa fans are saying and no doubt fans of other PL clubs not involved in the esl.
Leeds had a 200 strong protest, Chelsea 1000, but I suspect the pressure from the PL14 and eufa/fifa (as well as from some quarters of the media) was more telling.
What is demonstrated is that the owners, ceo's of the 6 didn't even understand their own supporters in making the decisions they did. I can sympathise with them for that at least.
I think we’re going to have to sympathise with them a lot more than that if we don’t want to have to rely on the likes of Uefa/Fifa, the Prem and SKY/BT to ‘protect’ football.
The only way to stop money running the game to an ever-increasing extent is to stand together with fans of every club.
You'll have to excuse me if I don't hold my breath regarding the fans of the scab 6. After all it's not like they've protested much in the years leading up to their clubs' collective brainfarts this week when everyone could see champions league and ffp (amongst other things) would benefit them at the expence of everybody else. My hope is that the PL14 will effect change on the domestic scene and then it's up to the European bodies to do their job.
PL14 as the good guys? My turn not to hold my breath.
Incidentally, where did the name scab 6 come from?
A scab, as the old definition goes, is a powerless person who destroys the only power the powerless have.
The 6 have more power than anybody else and want even more of it.
Please whatever you do, don't hold your breath!
Are Villa not one of the good guys then?
That's a strange interpretation of what's happened this week.
Sky 6 or scab 6 all the same to me.
Enjoy your day!
But Sky were against the 6. Sky are presenting themselves as the good guys. Uefa and FIFA are presenting themselves as the good guys. The Government and Politicians. And as Olaftab said a couple of pages back, rightly in my opinion, Villa would probably have acted the same way given half the chance.
The supporters are the ‘good guys’. The football business is shit. The 6 wanted to make it more shit. The Spirit of Shankley want to make it less shit. If supporters of all clubs show solidarity we have more chance of achieving that.
That’s my interpretation of what happened this week. I’m struggling to see what is the slightest bit contentious about it.
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He was whingeing that Real and Barca lose money when, like, IT WOULD BE EASIER IF YOU DIDN'T SPUNK IT ALL ON STRIKERS YOU DON'T NEED.
They spent £340 million the summer before last. Poor skint Real.
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He was whingeing that Real and Barca lose money when, like, IT WOULD BE EASIER IF YOU DIDN'T SPUNK IT ALL ON STRIKERS YOU DON'T NEED.
Yeah, Benzema is all you need (well, France don't. Did they ever get to the bottom of that sex tape/blackmailing shiz?).
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It's not Real's fault - it's those unelected EU bureaucrat rotters in Brussels, stopping the Spanish and regional governments from bankrolling them...
https://www.ft.com/content/2b6aa26f-f2ac-426f-b218-612f4c21695c
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It's not Real's fault - it's those unelected EU bureaucrat rotters in Brussels, stopping the Spanish and regional governments from bankrolling them...
https://www.ft.com/content/2b6aa26f-f2ac-426f-b218-612f4c21695c
Paywall. Can anyone do the honours?
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https://reclaimourgame.com/
All their requests seem reasonable enough to me. Hopefully they or another organisation can keep up the pressure for reform and, at the least, persuade UEFA to rethink the horrible Champions League reforms.
I'd like to think the fan power that prevented the creation of the Scab League would be the start rather than the end of a movement for change.
Reads well to me too. Thanks for the link.
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In summary, the EU took the Spanish government to court (and won) on the grounds giving taxpayer money to football clubs constituted state aid.
Clearly, not having access to a bottomless pit of money was never factored into Real or Barca's business planning...
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Real Madrid should pay off their massive debts. They're like addicts needing a fix and stealing from their family to pay for it. They can't be bailed out by government anymore but they're behaving the same way. They're hording players as much as anything to prevent them playing for their opponents, and bankrupting themselves to stay on top. Even being at the top doesn't create enough wealth in the Chumpions League. It's sickening.
Forcing them ( and others ) to pay their debts by selling players or be wound up would distribute better players throughout other teams making the competition more open. This would have the same effect in domestic league's too as non SUPER teams would also benefit from some of these players.
How can it be good for football when every week brilliant players are sitting on the benches all across Europe. Surely getting all these players on the pitch for many more teams would improve both the game and dare I say it, viewing figures.
Break their stranglehold and save our game.
Utv
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Real Madrid should pay off their massive debts. They're like addicts needing a fix and stealing from their family to pay for it. They can't be bailed out by government anymore but they're behaving the same way. They're hording players as much as anything to prevent them playing for their opponents, and bankrupting themselves to stay on top. Even being at the top doesn't create enough wealth in the Chumpions League. It's sickening.
Forcing them ( and others ) to pay their debts by selling players or be wound up would distribute better players throughout other teams making the competition more open. This would have the same effect in domestic league's too as non SUPER teams would also benefit from some of these players.
How can it be good for football when every week brilliant players are sitting on the benches all across Europe. Surely getting all these players on the pitch for many more teams would improve both the game and dare I say it, viewing figures.
Break their stranglehold and save our game.
Utv
I am not surprised by the actions of the odious Real Madrid and their equally odious president Florentino Perez.
They are just continuing their historical arrogant repugnant nature.
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I see mes que un club are similarly making pigs of themselves.
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I've always disliked any club that calls itself "the people's club" or any variety thereof. Sanctimonious wankspawn.
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I've always disliked any club that calls itself "the people's club" or any variety thereof. Sanctimonious wankspawn.
“This means more”. Copyright Liverpool FC.
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The truth is 90% of European Cup matches and indeed International matches are meaningless, unbalanced and boring to watch. Radical, but why not scrap them altogether?
Why not combine the two. Instead of representing your Country you represent your League. The direct football family.
Using Europe as an example, the finishing top ten clubs from the proceeding year from (say) England, Germany, Spain, Italy, France and Holland play each other in a tournament, home and away, and within a league format.
Corresponding position within League play each other. Three points for a win, one for a draw, As an example and based on last years league positions, when England play Italy the line-up of fixtures played over three nights would be:
Liverpool vs Juventus
Man City vs Inter
Man Utd vs Atalanta
Chelsea vs Lazio
Leicester vs Roma
Tottenham vs Milan
Wolves vs Napoli
Arsenal vs Sassoulo
Sheffield Utd vs Roma
Burnley vs Fiorentina
Overall scoreline could be 5-5, 6-4. 7-3, 8-2 etc (Half point each for a draw). Winner gets 3 points in overall league, 1 point if a draw in overall league.
Other federations worldwide can form their own groups of countries/leagues if they so choose.
It is radical but would make great viewing, be more balanced, get more clubs involved in Europe, end mid table mediocrity, share the burden and still retain the essence of national pride.
Thinking outside the box but just a thought. ::)
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To be fair to them both, they're absolutely right when they say that spending hundreds of millions of euros on new players each season when your income isn't guaranteed (due to pesky competition) isn't sustainable.
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To be fair to them both, they're absolutely right when they say that spending hundreds of millions of euros on new players each season when your income isn't guaranteed (due to pesky competition) isn't sustainable.
Life and business can be so cruel sometimes.
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To be fair to them both, they're absolutely right when they say that spending hundreds of millions of euros on new players each season when your income isn't guaranteed (due to pesky competition) isn't sustainable.
Life and business can be so cruel sometimes.
I know!
If only everyone else could see how important they are.
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I agree that 90% of games are pretty meaningless except to the fans of the teams involved. If funds were more evenly spread so would players be. Imagine more PL teams having access to players who currently grace the benches of the Big 6 every week? That'd be at least 2 quality players per club who'd probably walk into most of the 14 remaining clubs 1st teams per match. That'd mean more good players on the pitch at all games. Now wouldn't that be worth watching? What we find though is that these clubs constantly hoover up players like Jack offering them riches and trophies when what would be better for all the other teams and competition in general is for them to have some of these players.
More evenly matched teams with a higher level of jeopardy about the outcome would surely improve viewing figures by neutrals to watch games too. The Big 6 would still probably have an advantage, but less so. It's the upsets that get people excited like our 7-2 against Liverpool ( had to get that in ) so there should be more of a chance of it happening more often in my opinion.
And the title probably wouldn't be over by April.
Utv.
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If they are allowed to just carry on as normal then that is more of a travesty of justice as them trying to fuck off in the first place.
I am actually not happy it has collapsed - as i would have enjoyed the slow death as games kicked off and no one was watching. To see United, Liverpool and the wannabees Spurs self destruct would have been worth it all
Who's to say they still won't self destruct, Spuds are in debt to the tune of £900 million, United are in big debt and FSG want to sell Liverpool, sponsors are already pulling out, this is going to run a while longer & isn't going to just go away.
We should offer to help Daniel in their hour of need, like he did for us. £5m plus El Ghazi for Kane.
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Florentino Perez is doing his best to imitate Baghdad Bob, the mercurial Iraqi Information Minister.
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It’s not the guaranteed Champions League place that’s important to Barça and Real Madrid as they are pretty much guarantee that every year now
I can’t ever remember them not being in it
It’s revenue streams for them
Earning more money out on line and tv rights
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It’s not the guaranteed Champions League place that’s important to Barça and Real Madrid as they are pretty much guarantee that every year now
I can’t ever remember them not being in it
It’s revenue streams for them
Earning more money out on line and tv rights
Isn't the prize money you receive from the Champions League dictated by how far through the competition you get? That's the uncertainty they don't like. That, and sharing it with a load of other teams of course.
But remember, they're doing this for the good of the football pyramid...
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Yes but one of the main reasons the Premier League gets better revenue streams is that we don't give all the tv and prize money to the top 2 sides.
This makes it more competitive, meaning you get the odd result like Sheffield United beating Manure.
La Liga is watched by less people, as Real Madrid and Barcelona win nearly every match, so it's dull.
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Yep, it's the nerve of these two and Juve, who have systematically gutted their leagues over the last decade or two, and now complain that the competition is too boring for them to get big global TV revenues. What a bunch of irredeemable fuckfaces.
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Yep, it's the nerve of these two and Juve, who have systematically gutted their leagues over the last decade or two, and now complain that the competition is too boring for them to get big global TV revenues. What a bunch of irredeemable fuckfaces.
Yeah, it's complaining like about the damage to your car when you've just ran someone over.
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As the ESL clubs wanted fixtures only against themselves because that's "how to save the game and give fans what they want", then how about next season the GreedyBastards just play a mini-league against each other 4 times home and away - so 50 games on total.
The bottom 3 get relegated - without parachute payments.
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If Barcelona and Real Madrid can't manage to budget properly, given how relatively predictable their income is, it really is entirely down to them. They both finish in the top 3 of La Liga every year, it's just a question of which positions the two of them and Atletico finish in the top 3. So they always qualify for the Champions League, and nearly always get to the quarter finals at least, if not the semis. If they then choose to spend more than the income that that stable set of factors allows, well they deserve to go bust.
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I hated Neville as a player (although he was good) but he's brilliant at his current job, and has been great on this farrago.
I’ve liked him ever since I heard his nickname was Red Nev, a nod to his firebrand shop-stewarding, not his football preference.
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Now thinking it would have been great if it went ahead with no access to Domestic Leagues and players banned for life if they sign for a ESL club.
Then all the mercenaries, twats and has beens looking for a last big pay day would all be lumped together.
They can take Var and PMOL with them.
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Expelled from the Premier League:
Arsenal
Chelsea
Liverpool
Man City
Man United
Tottenham Hotspurs
Invited to join as replacements:
Blackburn Rovers
Bolton Wanderers
Derby County
Notts County
Preston North End
Stoke City
The other original 1888 founder member - Accrington FC resigned from the league in 1893 and was dissolved in 1896.
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Listening to radio: all manner of things are happening now and UEFA have put their foot down. Real Madrid kicked out of Champions League with immediate effect!!!
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If Barcelona and Real Madrid can't manage to budget properly, given how relatively predictable their income is, it really is entirely down to them. They both finish in the top 3 of La Liga every year, it's just a question of which positions the two of them and Atletico finish in the top 3. So they always qualify for the Champions League, and nearly always get to the quarter finals at least, if not the semis. If they then choose to spend more than the income that that stable set of factors allows, well they deserve to go bust.
100%
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Listening to radio: all manner of things are happening now and UEFA have put their foot down. Real Madrid kicked out of Champions League with immediate effect!!!
Where did you hear that ?
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Listening to radio: all manner of things are happening now and UEFA have put their foot down. Real Madrid kicked out of Champions League with immediate effect!!!
Where did you hear that ?
I just turned on Talksport (yes, I know) and caught the Real Madrid bit. I posted it here in case anyone else can confirm it. I hope I'm not horribly wrong and looking a right prat! ;)
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Oh FFS got my hopes up then didn't realise it was only TalkShite. At least the English clubs have shown some contrition, even if it did mostly come across as fake as fuck. Would love to see Perez and Agnelli suffer. Absolute scum of the Earth.
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Oh FFS got my hopes up then didn't realise it was only TalkShite. At least the English clubs have shown some contrition, even if it did mostly come across as fake as fuck. Would love to see Perez and Agnelli suffer. Absolute scum of the Earth.
Yep all these guys are saying it is postponed the arrogant tossers
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Yeah but wouldn't mean Chelsea getting a bye to the Champs League final? I dislike Real, but not that much...
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I hated Neville as a player (although he was good) but he's brilliant at his current job, and has been great on this farrago.
I’ve liked him ever since I heard his nickname was Red Nev, a nod to his firebrand shop-stewarding, not his football preference.
A member of Red Wedge as a nipper, pleading with his daddy, Neville Neville to bring him along to meetings.
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Yeah but wouldn't mean Chelsea getting a bye to the Champs League final? I dislike Real, but not that much...
Why do you have to spoil things? ☹
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Perez was moaning that the Champions League Group Stage is boring because the "big teams" don't play each other. I actually agree that it's boring.
Solution: why not get rid of the seeding? You could have Man City, Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich in Group A and Rosenborg, BATE Barisov, Dinamo Zagreb and Steaua Bucharest in Group B. Pretty much guaranteed that at least one or two of the elite would get knocked out, while plenty of competitors from less-moneyed leagues would have a chance of getting through. Plus more of the big hitters would finish third and go into the Europa League, boosting that cup's profile at the same time. Win-win?
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I really don't care how they rearrange the Champions League, as long as entry into is based on merit.
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...and as long as they don't scrap the League Cup or reduce the size of the League to accommodate it.
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...and as long as they don't scrap the League Cup or reduce the size of the League to accommodate it.
Obviously.
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I really don't care how they rearrange the Champions League, as long as entry into is based on merit.
Agreed, although I'd rather they didn't increase the games etc - we already have enough moaning about fixture congestion and pressure for 5 subs etc. Also, there's already too much money in it, it skews the finances of the haves and have nots too much.
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...and as long as they don't scrap the League Cup or reduce the size of the League to accommodate it.
I could live with teams in Europe being removed from the league cup (so long as the winners still get a Europa league place), some people will say it devalues the competition but given those teams all pick reserve teams until at least the QF I don't think this would be any worse.
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It would be considered worse, and would mean that the trophy that has provided most success in the last sixty years of our history, and is realistically our best chance at glory in the next few years, would be rendered not much better than the Windscreen Shield.
There is absolutely no need to fuck about with it. They played twelve group games before, you can accommodate ten group games and the League Cup.
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Perez was moaning that the Champions League Group Stage is boring because the "big teams" don't play each other. I actually agree that it's boring.
Solution: why not get rid of the seeding? You could have Man City, Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich in Group A and Rosenborg, BATE Barisov, Dinamo Zagreb and Steaua Bucharest in Group B. Pretty much guaranteed that at least one or two of the elite would get knocked out, while plenty of competitors from less-moneyed leagues would have a chance of getting through. Plus more of the big hitters would finish third and go into the Europa League, boosting that cup's profile at the same time. Win-win?
Or scrap the group stage completely. Have a straight knockout tournament where only each countries' respective champions gain entry and call it something like the European Cup...
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Perez was moaning that the Champions League Group Stage is boring because the "big teams" don't play each other. I actually agree that it's boring.
Solution: why not get rid of the seeding? You could have Man City, Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich in Group A and Rosenborg, BATE Barisov, Dinamo Zagreb and Steaua Bucharest in Group B. Pretty much guaranteed that at least one or two of the elite would get knocked out, while plenty of competitors from less-moneyed leagues would have a chance of getting through. Plus more of the big hitters would finish third and go into the Europa League, boosting that cup's profile at the same time. Win-win?
Or scrap the group stage completely. Have a straight knockout tournament where only each countries' respective champions gain entry and call it something like the European Cup...
Oh yes, I'm all for that. But they aren't going to scrap the groups due to money. Next best thing, then, is to take them at their word. They want a more competitive group stage. Fine... get rid of the seeding.
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It would be considered worse, and would mean that the trophy that has provided most success in the last sixty years of our history, and is realistically our best chance at glory in the next few years, would be rendered not much better than the Windscreen Shield.
There is absolutely no need to fuck about with it. They played twelve group games before, you can accommodate ten group games and the League Cup.
Considered worse by who and why would we care? I just don't agree that Man Utds U23s not being involved in R3 would hugely devalue the cup and if it stops the twats moaning about fixture congestion then I'd be ok with it.
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Perez was moaning that the Champions League Group Stage is boring because the "big teams" don't play each other. I actually agree that it's boring.
Solution: why not get rid of the seeding? You could have Man City, Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich in Group A and Rosenborg, BATE Barisov, Dinamo Zagreb and Steaua Bucharest in Group B. Pretty much guaranteed that at least one or two of the elite would get knocked out, while plenty of competitors from less-moneyed leagues would have a chance of getting through. Plus more of the big hitters would finish third and go into the Europa League, boosting that cup's profile at the same time. Win-win?
Or scrap the group stage completely. Have a straight knockout tournament where only each countries' respective champions gain entry and call it something like the European Cup...
This gets my vote.
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How about one giant league unseeded for all European qualifiers with draws for the games you play however many that might be. The top 16/32 then go into a knockout for the European Cup, the next 16/32 do the same for the UEFA/Europa League Cup and another 32/16 for the new Conference trophy. The rest go out.
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Perez was moaning that the Champions League Group Stage is boring because the "big teams" don't play each other. I actually agree that it's boring.
Solution: why not get rid of the seeding? You could have Man City, Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich in Group A and Rosenborg, BATE Barisov, Dinamo Zagreb and Steaua Bucharest in Group B. Pretty much guaranteed that at least one or two of the elite would get knocked out, while plenty of competitors from less-moneyed leagues would have a chance of getting through. Plus more of the big hitters would finish third and go into the Europa League, boosting that cup's profile at the same time. Win-win?
Or scrap the group stage completely. Have a straight knockout tournament where only each countries' respective champions gain entry and call it something like the European Cup...
Oh yes, I'm all for that. But they aren't going to scrap the groups due to money. Next best thing, then, is to take them at their word. They want a more competitive group stage. Fine... get rid of the seeding.
I have probably watched 2 CL games this season. I have little interest in it. If it returned to the European Cup as it was I might watch all of it. The draw for the next round of a cup is as, or in some cases, more exciting than the game itself. The thought of some of the big clubs going out at the first hurdle excites me.
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It would be considered worse, and would mean that the trophy that has provided most success in the last sixty years of our history, and is realistically our best chance at glory in the next few years, would be rendered not much better than the Windscreen Shield.
There is absolutely no need to fuck about with it. They played twelve group games before, you can accommodate ten group games and the League Cup.
Considered worse by who and why would we care? I just don't agree that Man Utds U23s not being involved in R3 would hugely devalue the cup and if it stops the twats moaning about fixture congestion then I'd be ok with it.
I care. I want our achievements to be recognised for what they are. Winning a tournament in which the top teams don't compete is clearly no longer a major trophy. I have no wish to see the number of major trophies we can likely win halved.
The argument about fixture congestion is absolute nonsense, they play fewer games now than at any time this century. We shouldn't be allowing a few spoiled teams to dictate our tournaments. That's exactly the same sort of logic that saw them try to launch a breakaway Scab League.
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If Barcelona and Real Madrid can't manage to budget properly, given how relatively predictable their income is, it really is entirely down to them. They both finish in the top 3 of La Liga every year, it's just a question of which positions the two of them and Atletico finish in the top 3. So they always qualify for the Champions League, and nearly always get to the quarter finals at least, if not the semis. If they then choose to spend more than the income that that stable set of factors allows, well they deserve to go bust.
Yep, the sense of entitlement is mindblowing. If they can't afford to win the Primera Division, then maybe it's time Sevilla win it, or Atletico, or Villareal or whoever.
The craziest thing I've learned recently is that Sevilla haven't won the league since 1946 - Spain's fourth or fifth biggest club, and they're that far from the top. Real and Barca are so used to having it all their own way they perceive winning with this amount of debt as merely just another thing they're owed. Well, they can fuck off as far as I'm concerned, both of them.
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Real Madrid's business model is based on debt. If they were ran well, they wouldn't need to pin all their hopes on a European Super League.
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Perez was moaning that the Champions League Group Stage is boring because the "big teams" don't play each other. I actually agree that it's boring.
Solution: why not get rid of the seeding? You could have Man City, Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich in Group A and Rosenborg, BATE Barisov, Dinamo Zagreb and Steaua Bucharest in Group B. Pretty much guaranteed that at least one or two of the elite would get knocked out, while plenty of competitors from less-moneyed leagues would have a chance of getting through. Plus more of the big hitters would finish third and go into the Europa League, boosting that cup's profile at the same time. Win-win?
Or scrap the group stage completely. Have a straight knockout tournament where only each countries' respective champions gain entry and call it something like the European Cup...
Absolutely this. It defies logic and fairness to have non champions knocking champions of "lower" European league's out. Is it any wonder people are getting bored with the same clubs getting to the last 8.
European Cup, knockout, no seeds for me. That'd mix it up and spread the wealth a bit at least.
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Perez was moaning that the Champions League Group Stage is boring because the "big teams" don't play each other. I actually agree that it's boring.
Solution: why not get rid of the seeding? You could have Man City, Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich in Group A and Rosenborg, BATE Barisov, Dinamo Zagreb and Steaua Bucharest in Group B. Pretty much guaranteed that at least one or two of the elite would get knocked out, while plenty of competitors from less-moneyed leagues would have a chance of getting through. Plus more of the big hitters would finish third and go into the Europa League, boosting that cup's profile at the same time. Win-win?
Or scrap the group stage completely. Have a straight knockout tournament where only each countries' respective champions gain entry and call it something like the European Cup...
Absolutely this. It defies logic and fairness to have non champions knocking champions of "lower" European league's out. Is it any wonder people are getting bored with the same clubs getting to the last 8.
European Cup, knockout, no seeds for me. That'd mix it up and spread the wealth a bit at least.
That's the last thing 'they' want!
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...and as long as they don't scrap the League Cup or reduce the size of the League to accommodate it.
I could live with teams in Europe being removed from the league cup (so long as the winners still get a Europa league place), some people will say it devalues the competition but given those teams all pick reserve teams until at least the QF I don't think this would be any worse.
Bit of a tangent, but back in the 90s my dad ran an elaborate Subbuteo league. That had a cup almost exactly as you describe - every 'league' team in it except for ones that qualified for Europe, with the winner of that cup winning a place in Europe the following season. Guaranteed you'd get some variation in who won trophies & qualified for Europe. That worked really well. Though in that we just had the one 'European Cup', not 3 separate trophies, so the difference between winning that cup & winning the league was minimal.
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Perez was moaning that the Champions League Group Stage is boring because the "big teams" don't play each other. I actually agree that it's boring.
Solution: why not get rid of the seeding? You could have Man City, Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich in Group A and Rosenborg, BATE Barisov, Dinamo Zagreb and Steaua Bucharest in Group B. Pretty much guaranteed that at least one or two of the elite would get knocked out, while plenty of competitors from less-moneyed leagues would have a chance of getting through. Plus more of the big hitters would finish third and go into the Europa League, boosting that cup's profile at the same time. Win-win?
Or scrap the group stage completely. Have a straight knockout tournament where only each countries' respective champions gain entry and call it something like the European Cup...
Oh yes, I'm all for that. But they aren't going to scrap the groups due to money. Next best thing, then, is to take them at their word. They want a more competitive group stage. Fine... get rid of the seeding.
Anyway, I agree with that. Get rid of seeding and you get rid of huge part of the problem. Absolutely fine with having groups if that's what people want, but the seeding makes them mostly unnecessary as they're heavily weighted in favour of the same teams that qualified the season(s) before.
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The reality is that the group stage argument from the Real president is just a load of rubbish. What he really means is that he doesn't want to share the TV money with what he perceives to be lesser clubs and just like Real and Barca have already done to La Liga, he wants to be able to monopolise the TV money in Europe too.
Unfortunately, UEFA are getting in his way which is why he came up with the Super League idea.
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Seed the eight highest coefficient teams into two groups. That way you have a big group stage game every Tuesday and Wednesday.
Two groups of death!
You'd still have four giant clubs getting to the knockout stages. At the moment because of seeding you can pretty much predict 7/8 of the quarter finalists before a ball is kicked.
Won't happen, but would be worth it just for the hypocritical howls of outrage coming from the dirty dozen.
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The fourteen 'other' Premier League clubs want the six chief executives of 'The big six' who wanted a breakaway to step down and they insist they will not engage in any way with those six.
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That's not a real sanction, is it.
It'll be a face saving exercise for the clubs involved - if they even go that far.
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I know we're seemingly being encouraged to be a bit Helen Lovejoy, "Oh, won't somebody please think of the supporters" about this, but I feel more like De Niro's Capone from The Untouchables. Maybe not quite the actual 'dead' bit. Fuck 'em.
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Whether it is politics, military action or football if you are going to instigate a coup make sure you are successful. Because otherwise it will usually end very badly for you.
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I haven't heard any genuine apologies from the top people at the clubs apart from the Liverpool owner.
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I haven't heard any genuine apologies from the top people at the clubs apart from the Liverpool owner.
Arsenal were sorry it didn't work out...
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I'm not really sure that was a genuine apology!
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They're genuinely sorry it didn't work out!!
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I know the ESL was supposed to be a “closed shop”, but I think even they would have got bored of Arsenal and chucked them out.
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Arsenal were the only team to apologise in the initial statement saying they weren't going. The Liverpool statement was particularly poor. That's why the Chairman was forced into a very fake apology.
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Every one of them is sorry they got caught. And they will be sorry they got caught next time too. They may as well get that apology in now.
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Nothing has changed. They will come again.
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If these fuckers get away with no sanction then I give up on football. We have a chance here to reset.
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The Arse protesting about the ESL, what's all that about? They were protesting because they are sh-t and they want their owners out. Chances of red scouse protesting today for their own self-interest reasons? Don't give me this we're doing it to unite with all fans excuse.
All 6 scabs should have sanctions against them and the FC at the ends of their names should be replaced by ESL as a permanent reminder to all, of the error of their ways.
Still Arse fans making noise even if was outside their stadium is a new one for them.
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Their owners are shit and the ESL was the last straw. I thought it was commendable that they protested, and getting all tribal about the team you support is the opposite of what we need right now. The ESL people, Perez, Agnelli etc, thought that tribal self-interest from their own fans would force the thing through, and it's great that they were so wrong.
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Agreed. All protests are to be applauded at the moment.
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Barney Ronay on form in the Graun:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/24/super-leagues-dumbing-down-of-youth-laid-bare-a-brainchild-of-stupid-old-men
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Agreed. All protests are to be applauded at the moment.
When fans come back it'll be the same. The scab 6 won't be forgiven or forgotten easily.
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Barney Ronay on form in the Graun:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/24/super-leagues-dumbing-down-of-youth-laid-bare-a-brainchild-of-stupid-old-men
He’s such a good writer. Thanks Monty.
I’ve always thought that basket ball could be condensed into the last five minutes but to sell TV rights to the last quarter is a scary window into how the ESL model works. That said, it would not bother me if there was a drinks break in football. Time for a lucrative advert but more importantly to allow managers to properly influence tactics.
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Hopefully, in the case of those clubs, fans won't be coming back. They need to keep up the protest until the owners' position becomes untenable.
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Peter Crouch on BT Sport. "Why do some of these clubs think they have rights and entitlement above and beyond Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest who have actually won European Cups unlike the likes of Arsenal".
Well said Crouchy.
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Irony donor required.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11685/12285338/karren-brady-premier-league-big-six-called-worse-than-snakes-during-meeting-of-other-14-says-west-ham-vice-chairman
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Irony donor required.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11685/12285338/karren-brady-premier-league-big-six-called-worse-than-snakes-during-meeting-of-other-14-says-west-ham-vice-chairman
*Holds nose* Karren Brady is right. *Vomits*
But this can't be a stitch-up where the execs get canned and the clubs carry on as normal. There surely has to be a variety of sanctions applied to them for this.
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Barney Ronay on form in the Graun:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/24/super-leagues-dumbing-down-of-youth-laid-bare-a-brainchild-of-stupid-old-men
A really interesting piece.
The assumption by these owners that supporters would just accept this course of action could never work at the speed they were trying to implement change.
And quite how they come back from this is anyones guess.
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Real sign Alaba on 500k pw, now trying to borrow money for Mbappé, while Juve are willing to make Donnarumma the highest paid keeper in history.
European Deadbeat League.
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I've always disliked any club that calls itself "the people's club" or any variety thereof. Sanctimonious wankspawn.
“This means more”. Copyright Liverpool FC.
The worst of the lot.
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Real sign Alaba on 500k pw, now trying to borrow money for Mbappé, while Juve are willing to make Donnarumma the highest paid keeper in history.
European Deadbeat League.
That's what gets me. Real and Barcelona seem to need the Super League because their finances are such a mess but they wouldn't be so desperate if they ran their clubs better. They're forever using debt and paying stupid wages and transfer fees, never trying to steady their ships. You would have thought Real would have learnt when they had to sell their training ground many years ago.
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But this can't be a stitch-up where the execs get canned and the clubs carry on as normal. There surely has to be a variety of sanctions applied to them for this.
Absolutely. Will it happen? I very much doubt it. All swept under the carpet (until the next time). As that article points out, they messed up with the meritocracy; get that right and watch them sale away into the distance. It really shouldn't have come as a big surprise, the Group of 16 European clubs have been controlling UEFA by the short and curlies for over a decade. First action should be to remove the seeding from European club competitions. I remember Forest playing Liverpool in the first round of the European Cup. Now there were two games fans wanted to watch.
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RCF, what was the reaction the the ESL in Portugal? I can't imagine Sporting and Porto enjoyed being told they were smaller clubs than Spurs.
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A transfer (incoming) ban would be appropriate. You say you're skint, let's help you out by stopping you spending any more money.
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RCF, what was the reaction the the ESL in Portugal? I can't imagine Sporting and Porto enjoyed being told they were smaller clubs than Spurs.
Porto are/were members of the secret Group of 16 so I imagine they were lined up to join though they claim they declined initial approaches. I think the government would have put a halt to them signing up young and talented South Americans, something they're brilliant at and financially benefit from every bloody year. Benfica were lobbying to join and Sporting if invited would have probably sold their place to the highest bidder.
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Bit like the Old Firm then I guess, only meaningful.
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Bit like the Old Firm then I guess, only meaningful.
Well Benfica are massive like Celtic, worldwide following but earn next to nothing in TV revenue; Porto are a more successful version of Sevco, crazy fans defenders of the north but without the nastiness, anger and hate. Sporting are like Hibs, lovely club, friendly fans, win something every blue moon but fail to build on it as they have to sell all their best players.
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I realize some of the Italian, Spanish and Portuguese sides scour S.America for raw talent and bring them over but love for us to cast a wider net. Of course the language piece helps those sides out in recruiting, but I still find our scouting too narrow and risk averse. Get some top young talent and loan them out if needed so they get permits or acclimatize to Europe. We shouldn’t need to buy British and with our finances I hope we have a network that finds players like Porto, Sporting or Benfica does.
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The UK Home Office won't grant work visas. Then you have the problem of who actually owns the player. It's a very messy business dealing with South American players.
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Yep there is all that. But then how did Watford get Joao Pedro or Reading signed Araruna for example? Both really good prospects. I know it’s messy with 3rd party ownership and red tape. But I want us to find ways to get young talent in without having spend 3 or 4 times the amount.
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The Joao Pedro is a strange one. They signed him on a 5 year contract in October 2018, it took 12 months to get his work permit and was only allowed to start playing for Watford in January 2020.
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That’s what I mean. It’s weird. They signed him as a really top prospect from Fluminese’s academy essentially and with no international experience still found a way to secure a work permit.
I know it would cost us a few or Naz and Wes’ millions but I would love us to go get Barbosa from Sao Paolo. He’s a much better player now than the one who played at Inter.
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Barbosa would be a gamble. Sorry.
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Barbosa would be a gamble. Sorry.
They’re all gambles. He’s got tremendous raw talent. His goalscoring record has been really good and at 24 a mature player than the one who came to Europe in his very early 20’s. He’s no more a gamble than us splashing out what we did on Wesley. And that remains very much in the not sure if he was worth it camp.
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Barbosa would be a gamble. Sorry.
I can see Hitler going for it.
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Barbosa would be a gamble. Sorry.
I can see Hitler going for it.
Posts of this quality make me worry that it's only a matter of time before Ads, Monty and some of the other heavyweight intellects of this board look to break away and form a Super Forum.
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Barbosa would be a gamble. Sorry.
They’re all gambles. He’s got tremendous raw talent. His goalscoring record has been really good and at 24 a mature player than the one who came to Europe in his very early 20’s. He’s no more a gamble than us splashing out what we did on Wesley. And that remains very much in the not sure if he was worth it camp.
He recently got arrested in an illegal gambling club. ;)
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Barbosa would be a gamble. Sorry.
I can see Hitler going for it.
Posts of this quality make me worry that it's only a matter of time before Ads, Monty and some of the other heavyweight intellects of this board look to break away and form a Super Forum.
It amused me too, Ritter Von LeeB.
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Barbosa would be a gamble. Sorry.
I can see Hitler going for it.
Posts of this quality make me worry that it's only a matter of time before Ads, Monty and some of the other heavyweight intellects of this board look to break away and form a Super Forum.
Dont mind me, just here for the adulation from Legacy Posters.
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Perez reckons there ain't nobody leaving
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/24/perez-says-super-league-clubs-cannot-leave-as-manchester-united-fans-protest
Pérez, whose club is one of three along with Barcelona and Juventus yet to withdraw, said it was not so simple for clubs to leave. “I don’t need to explain what a binding contract is but effectively, the clubs cannot leave,” Pérez told Spanish newspaper AS. “Some of them, due to pressure, have said they’re leaving. But this project, or one very similar, will move forward and I hope very soon.”
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Barbosa would be a gamble. Sorry.
I can see Hitler going for it.
Posts of this quality make me worry that it's only a matter of time before Ads, Monty and some of the other heavyweight intellects of this board look to break away and form a Super Forum.
Dont mind me, just here for the adulation from Legacy Posters.
Dave Woodhall statement due shortly....
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Barbosa would be a gamble. Sorry.
I can see Hitler going for it.
Posts of this quality make me worry that it's only a matter of time before Ads, Monty and some of the other heavyweight intellects of this board look to break away and form a Super Forum.
Dont mind me, just here for the adulation from Legacy Posters.
Dave Woodhall statement due shortly....
To be fair, I am losing money at a truly spectacular rate.
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I would like to state clearly that I am against this new Super Forum unless invited into it.
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Barbosa would be a gamble. Sorry.
I can see Hitler going for it.
Posts of this quality make me worry that it's only a matter of time before Ads, Monty and some of the other heavyweight intellects of this board look to break away and form a Super Forum.
Dont mind me, just here for the adulation from Legacy Posters.
Dave Woodhall statement due shortly....
To be fair, I am losing money at a truly spectacular rate.
I know the feeling.
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The main issue is, the young posters, they're all about the emojis, the "lol" and the like. To secure the future of the forum, we need 60% of the GM subs. It's only fair.
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Comical Florentino: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/24/perez-says-super-league-clubs-cannot-leave-as-manchester-united-fans-protest
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Just dripping of desperation. Perez comes across as a colossal pompous wanker who would walk over a dying man to pick up a penny.
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Perez is a man in a desperate position and scared to death of his bank manager calling.
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Yes Perez is looking rather desperate here.
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Without knowing what was actually signed I'm not sure I agree, I think he's probably being the most honest of anyone involved. He's a twat, there's no denying that, but at least he hasn't thrown out a pathetic apology. The idea that they'll come back with something slightly different in 6 months rings true to me, that's why the leagues need to have a proper punishment, make it clear that this shit isn't something that will be forgiven after a few scapegoat sackings in the boardrooms.
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I know we want them punished I think the best way to punish them is to limit their squad size to 22 for the next 3 seasons
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I know we want them punished I think the best way to punish them is to limit their squad size to 22 for the next 3 seasons
That's far from the worst idea I've heard, although relegating them to the Conference might be better.
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They may well have signed binding contracts but Perez has already admitted there's a financial cancellation penalty so on the basis he's dealing with gazillionaires if they decide they're not continuing, they're not continuing.
As for the punishment, I'm convinced there'll be no punishment whatsoever. Instead they'll be told they're very naughty boys and the rules will be changed to make punishing them easier if they try it again.
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But what choice does poor Florentino have? Poor little Real are as skint as a Dickensian orphan child, and it's all the fault of the fickle youth with their Snapnite and their Twitchster.
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How are they affording to effectively build a huge sarcophagus over the Bernabeu.
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What's the betting that football is reformed around the ideas of the so called big six, just because the FA and FIFA will be desperate to appease them? What the fuck Tottenham have done to earn such an accolade is beyond me. They should start with a fans survey.
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Necessity is the mother of invention, so it’s just a matter of time before yet another scheme to carve up football in favour of these clubs.
Wenger made a great point, saying he could not believe how stupid the English clubs were in being complicit in the attempt to trash the Premier League cash cow.
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Tottenham Hotspur, football's Melania Trump.
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Comical Florentino: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/24/perez-says-super-league-clubs-cannot-leave-as-manchester-united-fans-protest
my god man cut your cloth accordingly . The whole industry needs to look at itself. how about a reasonable wage cap of £100k a week and a squad of no more than 25 . this would stop the rich owners swallowing up all the main talent so nobody else can sign them
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Interesting debate on BBC about how the ESL 6 should be punished. What are people's thoughts? I guess it becomes a legal thing and the FA are in the hands of what, under current rules allows for permissible sanctions? I'd hope for them to have points docked, banned for two transfer windows. What is the point in a fine when they are richer than God?
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Transfer bans are a good one, but the problem with that is they haven't done anything transfer-related. Only UEFA can ban them from European competition I believe, and while this might just happen to Real, Barça and Juve if they don't leave soon, I can't see it happening to the English clubs after Ceferin's warm welcome back to them.
Points deductions would make sense, but I'd rather see them for the start of next season instead of retro-actively applied to this season. Of course, had they persisted longer they might have got what they deserve, which is relegation to the Championship next season regardless of where they finish, but there's no chance this will happen now.
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Unprecedented actions need unprecedented punishments. Relegation to League 2 and transfer ban for five seasons. I'd much prefer to punt them down to the 11th level of football - to the local leagues that feed national ones - bulldoze their stadiums and salt the very earth upon which they once played - I can dream.
But what is actually going to happen is this: nothing. The narrative that 'it wasn't the fans fault' is getting traction and I don't see any high profile sports writers making the point of the double standards at play in that argument and how it is logically flawed.
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I liked Danny Murphy's point that they tried to send 86 other clubs into administration. I normally don't listen to him but on this occasion I think he makes a good point.
I suspect Stu is right. No action will be taken but it won't be long before they come back with yet another idea, in fact, I think the next TV deal for football might be a really tough one to negotiate.
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It comes down to nothing more than the Premier League not wanting an extremely expensive legal battle with the likes of Man City. If they punish one, they have to punish them all, and you can't see Man City worrying too much about legal costs. It's far easier to go after skint lower league teams and deduct them points, because they can't afford to fight back, and other than the fans of the clubs themselves, nobody cares.
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Take Luton Town. Deducted 10 points for fielding a player they hadn't actually signed, and a further 20 points for not disclosing that they had left administration.
These six clubs formed a league that sought to torpedo the very notion of competitive sport in Europe in order to keep themselves wealthy.
Who was worse?
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Unprecedented actions need unprecedented punishments. Relegation to League 2 and transfer ban for five seasons. I'd much prefer to punt them down to the 11th level of football - to the local leagues that feed national ones - bulldoze their stadiums and salt the very earth upon which they once played - I can dream.
But what is actually going to happen is this: nothing. The narrative that 'it wasn't the fans fault' is getting traction and I don't see any high profile sports writers making the point of the double standards at play in that argument and how it is logically flawed.
It's never the fans' fault, but they never complain when their team are winning.
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Watching the Man City match the other night, Jane and I were of the opinion that having to play these fuckers tarnished us with their presence by association. We know they have absolutely no respect for us as a competitor.
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It comes down to nothing more than the Premier League not wanting an extremely expensive legal battle with the likes of Man City. If they punish one, they have to punish them all, and you can't see Man City worrying too much about legal costs. It's far easier to go after skint lower league teams and deduct them points, because they can't afford to fight back, and other than the fans of the clubs themselves, nobody cares.
I think the government could bring in legislation that bans any pro football match being played on English soil which isn't organised by the FA. Seems easy on the face of it (in that I know nothing of how to make laws). Also needs a schedule for remedies if this rule is broken.
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The only hardship their supporters would suffer is to have to watch their team in a different division. Boo-fucking-hoo.
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Rugby Union set a precedent last year by bombing Sarries out when they completely ignored the rules of the league. I'd love to see the Premier League and the FA show they have the same attitude.
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Rugby Union set a precedent last year by bombing Sarries out when they completely ignored the rules of the league. I'd love to see the Premier League and the FA show they have the same attitude.
If they did that, relegated all six clubs, the beauty of it is that only three of them can come back up in one season as winners, runners up and Championship play off winners. The other three clubs would have to wait at least two years to come back up and that would surely damage them in the same way that their actions would have damaged others. Good!!
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I agree with Stu.
For me, relegation is only fitting punishment and deterrent, and it would have the bonus redistributing the wealth around a bit more.
If Sky moan tell them to fuck off and find something else to fill their platforms with, they'd go bust overnight without the Premier League.
Anyway, it would have the opposite effect, I reckon interest would sky rocket at the prospect, a massive Royal Rumble with a guaranteed new champion at the end of it.
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Comical Florentino: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/24/perez-says-super-league-clubs-cannot-leave-as-manchester-united-fans-protest
If these clubs can't afford to compete at the very top then the owners need to make some decisions involving selling assets, restructuring the club to be more financially viable, and if it means a few years in the wilderness then that's what it has to be. The notion that these 12 clubs are so special that the rest of European football has to change to accommodate them is the peak of entitlement and arrogance.
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Comical Florentino: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/24/perez-says-super-league-clubs-cannot-leave-as-manchester-united-fans-protest
If these clubs can't afford to compete at the very top then the owners need to make some decisions involving selling assets, restructuring the club to be more financially viable, and if it means a few years in the wilderness then that's what it has to be. The notion that these 12 clubs are so special that the rest of European football has to change to accommodate them is the peak of entitlement and arrogance.
It echoes society if you think of it the same terms of white privilege and structural racism, those clubs are white and all the others are black.
Decisions by authorities, redistribution of wealth and hidden systems keeping the structure in place.
Probably just capitalism though innit? That's what it does.
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This proposed league is the end point of unregulated capitalism certainly. Without regulation it craves monopoly and protection of profit from risks. The antithesis of competitive sport.
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This proposed league is the end point of unregulated capitalism certainly. Without regulation it craves monopoly and protection of profit from risks. The antithesis of competitive sport.
It's also, bizarrely, the antithesis of capitalism. I will now drown myself for defending capitalism!
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There are times when being a squishy liberal social-democrat type feels like a near-prophetic and quite easy position, like a kind of Cassandra for the bleedin' obvious. Without each other, the market and the state will always tend towards monopoly.
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Relegation should be the main punishment but we know that won't happen, I'd be very surprised if it did.
My take would be:
From the beginning of next season 15 points deduction.
An incoming transfer embargo for the next four windows (two years to begin from now)
No European competition for three years, over to Euefa for that.
What the politics and legalities for that are I have no idea but that is what I feel should be a very minimum. They didn't care about us, why should we care about them?
Five of those clubs should get it for suggesting Spurs alone!
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Relegation and a £10m fine each.Relegation would have to be to the 4th tier not the Championship as otherwise that would effectively stop the chances of promotion for 2 years of Championship sides.
Those six clubs signed an agreement which threatened the future of other league clubs.
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Relegation and a £10m fine each.Relegation would have to be to the 4th tier not the Championship as otherwise that would effectively stop the chances of promotion for 2 years of Championship sides.
Those six clubs signed an agreement which threatened the future of other league clubs.
The six of them fighting to get out of the division in three spots would be hilarious though.
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Perez may have played a blinder if the naughty 9 have to pay huge financial penalties to escape the ESL. It could go some way paying off the debts of the remaining 3. I'd be interested to know who's to get the blood money.
Also, if there is to be any European exclusion of these clubs it has to be all of them. Otherwise those not excluded will gain an advantage in the next competition.
One thing that surprises and disappoints me is that Barcelona got into bed with Real Madrid at any level.
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Vote with the other 14 clubs to redistribute overseas TV income more evenly.
A "punishment" that can just as equally be framed as the premier league helping clubs promoted from the championship to better compete.
It benefits everyone except the Six, will affect them every season and best of all it will piss them off royally.
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Relegation and a £10m fine each.Relegation would have to be to the 4th tier not the Championship as otherwise that would effectively stop the chances of promotion for 2 years of Championship sides.
Those six clubs signed an agreement which threatened the future of other league clubs.
The six of them fighting to get out of the division in three spots would be hilarious though.
Relegate them all to League 2, then dock 90pts off each of them. They can fight to see which 2 of the "Big 6" get to play non-league football the next season, whilst the other 4 get a season battling it out in League 2.
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Relegation and a £10m fine each.Relegation would have to be to the 4th tier not the Championship as otherwise that would effectively stop the chances of promotion for 2 years of Championship sides.
Those six clubs signed an agreement which threatened the future of other league clubs.
The six of them fighting to get out of the division in three spots would be hilarious though.
Relegate them all to League 2, then dock 90pts off each of them. They can fight to see which 2 of the "Big 6" get to play non-league football the next season, whilst the other 4 get a season battling it out in League 2.
I don't think this goes far enough...
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Perez may have played a blinder if the naughty 9 have to pay huge financial penalties to escape the ESL. It could go some way paying off the debts of the remaining 3. I'd be interested to know who's to get the blood money.
Also, if there is to be any European exclusion of these clubs it has to be all of them. Otherwise those not excluded will gain an advantage in the next competition.
One thing that surprises and disappoints me is that Barcelona got into bed with Real Madrid at any level.
There is not the same anger about it in Spain or Italy as there is here
Especially with the fans of the clubs involved
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Perez may have played a blinder if the naughty 9 have to pay huge financial penalties to escape the ESL. It could go some way paying off the debts of the remaining 3. I'd be interested to know who's to get the blood money.
Also, if there is to be any European exclusion of these clubs it has to be all of them. Otherwise those not excluded will gain an advantage in the next competition.
One thing that surprises and disappoints me is that Barcelona got into bed with Real Madrid at any level.
There is not the same anger about it in Spain or Italy as there is here
Especially with the fans of the clubs involved
There wasn't at first in Italy, but after seeing the English fans get mad the fury definitely built among the tifosi of the left-behind. The trouble is Italians are quite used to being fucked over and not being able to do anything about it, so their reaction to something like this was always likely to be pessimism and resignation. It picked up though.
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Cadiz fans turned up to protest when they played Real Madrid. Fans of Real and Barcelona have always been entitled wankers and think it is unfair that they're no longer allowed to keep 90% of the TV money, just as Juventus fans think it was unfair to punish them fot actually bribing referees. So I doubt the clubs themselves are angry but I think their competitors are.
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Italian football is in a state. Just look at the stadiums, they’ve pretty much been left to ruin. It’s not overly surprising those fans after battle weary and beaten down.
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Perez may have played a blinder if the naughty 9 have to pay huge financial penalties to escape the ESL. It could go some way paying off the debts of the remaining 3. I'd be interested to know who's to get the blood money.
Also, if there is to be any European exclusion of these clubs it has to be all of them. Otherwise those not excluded will gain an advantage in the next competition.
One thing that surprises and disappoints me is that Barcelona got into bed with Real Madrid at any level.
There is not the same anger about it in Spain or Italy as there is here
Especially with the fans of the clubs involved
Similarly, most Old Firm fans are desperate to leave Scotland. Perhaps they could all fuck off to Kazakhstan forever.
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Italian football is in a state. Just look at the stadiums, they’ve pretty much been left to ruin. It’s not overly surprising those fans after battle weary and beaten down.
Almost none of the clubs own their stadiums - they're instead leased to them by the local government, which is why teams in so many cities (Milan, Rome, Genoa, Verona) share their stadiums. And local government, construction, maintenance and so on is....well it's a long story here, let's put it that way.
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Italian football is in a state. Just look at the stadiums, they’ve pretty much been left to ruin. It’s not overly surprising those fans after battle weary and beaten down.
Almost none of the clubs own their stadiums - they're instead leased to them by the local government, which is why teams in so many cities (Milan, Rome, Genoa, Verona) share their stadiums. And local government, construction, maintenance and so on is....well it's a long story here, let's put it that way.
So I hear. I guess not everywhere can be as clean as Mexico!
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Perez may have played a blinder if the naughty 9 have to pay huge financial penalties to escape the ESL. It could go some way paying off the debts of the remaining 3. I'd be interested to know who's to get the blood money.
Also, if there is to be any European exclusion of these clubs it has to be all of them. Otherwise those not excluded will gain an advantage in the next competition.
One thing that surprises and disappoints me is that Barcelona got into bed with Real Madrid at any level.
There is not the same anger about it in Spain or Italy as there is here
Especially with the fans of the clubs involved
There wasn't at first in Italy, but after seeing the English fans get mad the fury definitely built among the tifosi of the left-behind. The trouble is Italians are quite used to being fucked over and not being able to do anything about it, so their reaction to something like this was always likely to be pessimism and resignation. It picked up though.
Has anyone seen Man City fans protesting anywhere in the media? I've not seen much.
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They didn't play a home game before they withdrew, and I imagine they're fairly happy with their owners. Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal all disliked their owners already and Chelsea stopped protesting and went home once they announced their withdrawal from the ESL.
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When are the punishments going to be discussed?
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https://www.leedsunited.com/news/team-news/28016/angus-kinnear-s-manchester-united-programme-notes
Heard about these on MOTD 2.
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Serie A have passed a rule to ban any clubs who join a non-FIFA-sanctioned tournament. It isn't the punitive measures some want, but it is something. And hopefully that prick Agnelli will be annoyed.
Hopefully the Premier League and other leagues can do similar.
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Serie A have passed a rule to ban any clubs who join a non-FIFA-sanctioned tournament. It isn't the punitive measures some want, but it is something. And hopefully that prick Agnelli will be annoyed.
Hopefully the Premier League and other leagues can do similar.
It's a good first step, but the absolute bare minimum. Personally I'd happily consign the 6 to a watery grave - relegation to League 2, with a 120pt deduction. Two of them definitely playing non-league football in 2022/23, the other 4 being in the wilderness for at least 4 seasons. Big fines, and absolutely have to abide by FFP rules (which should start to bite in League 1/The Championship for the 4, assuming they manage to dig themselves out of their hole quickly enough).
Oh, and ban them from all cups for 5 seasons.
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Serie A have passed a rule to ban any clubs who join a non-FIFA-sanctioned tournament. It isn't the punitive measures some want, but it is something. And hopefully that prick Agnelli will be annoyed.
Hopefully the Premier League and other leagues can do similar.
It's a good first step, but the absolute bare minimum. Personally I'd happily consign the 6 to a watery grave - relegation to League 2, with a 120pt deduction. Two of them definitely playing non-league football in 2022/23, the other 4 being in the wilderness for at least 4 seasons. Big fines, and absolutely have to abide by FFP rules (which should start generally bite in League 1/The Championship for the 4, assuming they manage to dig themselves out of their hole quickly enough).
If anything, I think you're being too soft on them!
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Serie A have passed a rule to ban any clubs who join a non-FIFA-sanctioned tournament. It isn't the punitive measures some want, but it is something. And hopefully that prick Agnelli will be annoyed.
Hopefully the Premier League and other leagues can do similar.
He'll be even more annoyed by Napoli's result this evening.
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To be fair to them both, they're absolutely right when they say that spending hundreds of millions of euros on new players each season when your income isn't guaranteed (due to pesky competition) isn't sustainable.
The issue is really players wages then.
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Chelski and Monopoly City were both losers in the premier league last season finishing 4th
(f-cking 4th!) and 2nd respectively yet both are in the semi finals of the champions league. What a joke, con league more like it! Competitions like this continue to bring the game of football into disrepute.
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The sooner we know the punishment for the scabby 12 the better.
It could mean the difference of Villa getting in transfers from some of the big 12 or having to scout the lower leagues again. Expensive squads + big debt = Bargain Basement.
Hurry up Premier League, Uefa etc, get your finger out. >:(
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The sooner we know the punishment for the scabby 12 the better.
It could mean the difference of Villa getting in transfers from the big 12 or having to scout the lower leagues again. Expensive squads + big debt = Bargain Basement.
Hurry up Premier League, Uefa etc, get your finger out. >:(
What kind of punishment are you expecting, Baldy?
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The sooner we know the punishment for the scabby 12 the better.
It could mean the difference of Villa getting in transfers from the big 12 or having to scout the lower leagues again. Expensive squads + big debt = Bargain Basement.
Hurry up Premier League, Uefa etc, get your finger out. >:(
What kind of punishment are you expecting, Baldy?
I don't expect the Premier League to do much. Why weaken the cash cow that has made the Premier League so powerful!! They can't afford to lose the big 6 out of a League of 20 clubs. it would weaken the TV appeal and damage all clubs, including Villa.
However, Europe can absorb the loss of 12 clubs (some of whom wont qualify next year anyhow). There are plenty of massive clubs in Europe who will make any competition very interesting and indeed to see some new faces would be refreshing. Therefore, ban the main instigators of the ESL from all European competition for 3 years and the other clubs for 2 years. Also, impose an incoming transfer ban for the same period of time.
It will cripple most of them financially and the 'fire sale' can begin. :)
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Serie A have passed a rule to ban any clubs who join a non-FIFA-sanctioned tournament. It isn't the punitive measures some want, but it is something. And hopefully that prick Agnelli will be annoyed.
Hopefully the Premier League and other leagues can do similar.
There is a devil in the detail there in that the dirty dozen will now be working to get FIFA & UEFA on board then the whole thing can be revived. It has slowed them down but I don’t think for one minute that it has gone away for good. That is why the FA and EPL should be meting out some sort of punishment now and the 14 should be filling the vacant positions at the top table and tightening the rules to ensure that the richer clubs can never manipulate a new system to soak up all the cash for themselves.
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Serie A have passed a rule to ban any clubs who join a non-FIFA-sanctioned tournament. It isn't the punitive measures some want, but it is something. And hopefully that prick Agnelli will be annoyed.
Hopefully the Premier League and other leagues can do similar.
There is a devil in the detail there in that the dirty dozen will now be working to get FIFA & UEFA on board then the whole thing can be revived. It has slowed them down but I don’t think for one minute that it has gone away for good. That is why the FA and EPL should be meting out some sort of punishment now and the 14 should be filling the vacant positions at the top table and tightening the rules to ensure that the richer clubs can never manipulate a new system to soak up all the cash for themselves.
If UEFA and FIFA become complicit I am not sure what the PL can do.
We are right not to trust them though, they bought in the expanded CL, FFP, A world Cup in Qatar and thats before we get into the past Mafia level corruption in these bodies.
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The sooner we know the punishment for the scabby 12 the better.
It could mean the difference of Villa getting in transfers from the big 12 or having to scout the lower leagues again. Expensive squads + big debt = Bargain Basement.
Hurry up Premier League, Uefa etc, get your finger out. >:(
What kind of punishment are you expecting, Baldy?
I don't expect the Premier League to do much. Why weaken the cash cow that has made the Premier League so powerful!! They can't afford to lose the big 6 out of a League of 20 clubs. it would weaken the TV appeal and damage all clubs, including Villa.
However, Europe can absorb the loss of 12 clubs (some of whom wont qualify next year anyhow). There are plenty of massive clubs in Europe who will make any competition very interesting and indeed to see some new faces would be refreshing. Therefore, ban the main instigators of the ESL from all European competition for 3 years and the other clubs for 2 years. Also, impose an incoming transfer ban for the same period of time.
It will cripple most of them financially and the 'fire sale' can begin. :)
The head of UEFA has already said that the English clubs will be treated more favourably in any potential sanctions as they bottled it first.
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I can't see there being any punishments of note. If you look to relegate them and ban them from Europe for a few years then they'll say their hand is being forced to reconsider another form of European league.
What really needs to come out of this is a spotlight on the distribution of wealth - ideally with a fairer share of league and TV revenue, a reversal of the increased size CL and proposed wildcard entries (which are a fucking disgrace and have gone under the radar) and most importantly some legislation protecting the English game as we know it from predatory investors.
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Serie A have passed a rule to ban any clubs who join a non-FIFA-sanctioned tournament. It isn't the punitive measures some want, but it is something. And hopefully that prick Agnelli will be annoyed.
Hopefully the Premier League and other leagues can do similar.
It's a good first step, but the absolute bare minimum. Personally I'd happily consign the 6 to a watery grave - relegation to League 2, with a 120pt deduction. Two of them definitely playing non-league football in 2022/23, the other 4 being in the wilderness for at least 4 seasons. Big fines, and absolutely have to abide by FFP rules (which should start generally bite in League 1/The Championship for the 4, assuming they manage to dig themselves out of their hole quickly enough).
If anything, I think you're being too soft on them!
They need the same punishment as football hooligans...
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I listened to the European totally football podcast and one of the panellist explained that there’s a clause in the contract that the 12 clubs have signed where IF Barcelona (and their weird fan “voter” system) rejected the ESL AND 70% of the other clubs rejected it, then all clubs are off the hook.
The reason Juve, Barca and Madrid are holding out is IF Barca fans vote in favour then then other nine clubs will have a massive loss of profit claim coming their way even if the league never starts.
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I listened to the European totally football podcast and one of the panellist explained that there’s a clause in the contract that the 12 clubs have signed where IF Barcelona (and their weird fan “voter” system) rejected the ESL AND 70% of the other clubs rejected it, then all clubs are off the hook.
The reason Juve, Barca and Madrid are holding out is IF Barca fans vote in favour then then other nine clubs will have a massive loss of profit claim coming their way even if the league never starts.
Like I said a couple of days ago. Perez may have played a blinder and solved some of Real's financial problems with what could amount to a sting on the others.
I'd have to confess it'd be amusing if the naughty 9 had to pay the other 3 and still get punished.
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No, it would only be good if all twelve suffer. Your scenario just strengthens the two worst offenders. In any case, surely they'd be paying JP Morgan compensation, not other clubs?
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Chelski and Monopoly City were both losers in the premier league last season finishing 4th
(f-cking 4th!) and 2nd respectively yet both are in the semi finals of the champions league. What a joke, con league more like it! Competitions like this continue to bring the game of football into disrepute.
Its possible in future that a "wild card" team could win it, without even qualifying for the competition in their domestic league.
It's ridiculous. Champions League should mean champions only. Period.
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Ahem. Full stop.
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No, it would only be good if all twelve suffer. Your scenario just strengthens the two worst offenders. In any case, surely they'd he paying JP Morgan compensation, not other clubs?
Dunno who'd get the money. Of course they should all be punished. But they probably won't. I wasn't being serious about the beneficiary's. But Man-ure and the others having to pay a fortune does have a certain irony.
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Oh yes, I've no problem with anything that leaves them out of pocket, if it doesn't benefit any of the others.
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Oh yes, I've no problem with anything that leaves them out of pocket, if it doesn't benefit any of the others.
Absolutely agreed. If they do have to pay it may peg them back in the Premier League somewhat too.
And my goodness they'd look so stupid!
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I think the only form of punishment that would work in the long , is salary cap which would ensure the end of stockpiling players .
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I think the only form of punishment that would work in the long , is salary cap which would ensure the end of stockpiling players .
That is the only long term solution I can think of that would be fair. Like when cigarette advertising was banned it might be good for the big club’s owners too as their turnover should not impacted in the short term so their profits should increase.
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I think the only form of punishment that would work in the long , is salary cap which would ensure the end of stockpiling players .
That is the only long term solution I can think of that would be fair. Like when cigarette advertising was banned it might be good for the big club’s owners too as their turnover should not impacted in the short term so their profits should increase.
They would also need to limit the number of players that can be registered and also loaned out.
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The bizarre thing about the ESL proposal was that there was no way of levelling things for them. There would no doubt be an elite couple of teams, and whilst the owners have aimed for an NFL model, that at least has the draft system to give other teams a chance to get better.
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The way that US sports are set up goes against the way that the rest of the country operates.
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Have said before, NFL is an incredibly socialist system
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Have said before, NFL is an incredibly socialist system
You could also argue that it is a Cartel.
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I am loving how all the 'power brokers' behind this plot are biting the dust one by one.
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They aren't, are they? Only the Man U Chairman has gone so far as I know.
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They aren't, are they? Only the Man U Chairman has gone so far as I know.
Apparently 5 senior members of the “SL” clubs of some PL board have resigned their positions. The other 14 clubs want far stricter penalties. This one has a ways to go.
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They aren't, are they? Only the Man U Chairman has gone so far as I know.
All the execs from those six clubs who were on one of the Premier League committees have been booted.
Doesn't affect Spurs because they weren't even important enough to have a representative on a committee!!
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Spurs really are fucking irrelevant. Like the cockerel on their badge. A bird nobody ever gives a fuck about other than as part of a meal.
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They aren't, are they? Only the Man U Chairman has gone so far as I know.
All the execs from those six clubs who were on one of the Premier League committees have been booted.
Doesn't affect Spurs because they weren't even important enough to have a representative on a committee!!
They've been booted from Premier League committees, they still have their jobs. Maybe a bit less influence, but at the moment their "punishment" is having the same job and money for having to do a bit less work.
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There’ll be not much more than a slap on the wrists and a stern, “nothing of that sort again please chaps.” The PL won’t want to risk hurting their cash cows too much, beyond pure optics.
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They aren't, are they? Only the Man U Chairman has gone so far as I know.
All the execs from those six clubs who were on one of the Premier League committees have been booted.
Doesn't affect Spurs because they weren't even important enough to have a representative on a committee!!
They've been booted from Premier League committees, they still have their jobs. Maybe a bit less influence, but at the moment their "punishment" is having the same job and money for having to do a bit less work.
I don't know. Hopefully it means decisions that affect the whole league will be a bit less "Snidy 6" centric.
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The clubs concerned have no less voting rights. They just don't have reps on the sub committees.
I hope there are punishments meted out.
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Have a feeling Uefa will not mete out punishments until both European Club finals have been completed. Should simplify matters.
As for Premier League, they have already excluded ESL Execs from privileged information, had to be done fast. I reckon additional punishment will follow at the end of the season. Again, should simplify matters. ;D
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Where do you even start with this sh-t I glimpsed on tw-tter this morning by something called spectatorindex?
"English clubs by European Cup/UEFA Champions League titles.
Liverpool: 6
Manchester United: 3
Nottingham Forest: 2
Chelsea: 1
Aston Villa: 1
Leeds: 0 (one final)
Arsenal: 0 (one final)
Tottenham: 0 (one final)"
The clue is in the header with the word "titles"
Why are dirty leeds, the arse and spuds included if they've won
f-ck all titles? Who gives a sh-t if they've been losers?
Some sources will go to any lengths to include some of the so-called esl clubs. Bet they can't wait to include monopoly city on that list even if they are losers in the upcoming crock of sh-t final.
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Introduced in 1955 as the Coupe des Clubs Champions Européens (French for European Champion Clubs' Cup),
Does not exist but the ***** nicked the Trophy.
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We’ve offered to host CL final
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We’ve offered to host CL final
It makes geographical and common sense. Plus it'll be another nice showpiece for our ground.
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We’ve offered to host CL final
It makes geographical and common sense. Plus it'll be another nice showpiece for our ground.
Declined, Turkey it is. 4,000 tickets for each club in a country they can't travel to. Thank God for the great revolt of the other week or else fan's concerns would never get a look in.
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We’ve offered to host CL final
It makes geographical and common sense. Plus it'll be another nice showpiece for our ground.
Declined, Turkey it is. 4,000 tickets for each club in a country they can't travel to. Thank God for the great revolt of the other week or else fan's concerns would never get a look in.
I actually agree with the decision. Imagine how many would turn up without tickets if it was held here?
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That's a good point Chris.
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But we can say we offered. Helpful Aston Villa, as ever.
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I wish it was. The amount of Twitter wankers with the "That night in Birmingham" chestnut .
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It's a clever move from Villa. It gets people talking about us in the context of the Champions League and sows a little seed in the minds of players and agents in terms of the scale of the Club's ambition.
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UEFA won't move it from Istanbul unless they're hands forced I think. There's not a cat in hells chance of Villa Park hosting it
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If the final is moved, there’s no way it should be held in the U.K.
That would just be asking for trouble.
Get Edvard to arrange a pitch and play it up there.
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Better still, cancel it. Both the finalists should have been kicked out of the competition.
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Indeed and if it's as boring as the final last season with two English clubs.. yeah, just ban them. Saves time.
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UEFA require a 60,000 minimum capacity for the stadium hosting the Champions League final so holding it at VP was a non-starter.
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Snobbish Chelsea fans claiming Villa Park is too small to stage it.
Villa Park is bigger than Stamford Bridge... .
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UEFA require a 60,000 minimum capacity for the stadium hosting the Champions League final so holding it at VP was a non-starter.
Presumably doesn't apply if only 8000 fans can actually attend? Just have it on one of the pitches in Aston Park
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Fucking great idea to hold an all English final in a foreign country during a pandemic. I heard Adrian Durham saying this type of thinking is backwards thinking, yes, guilty as charged but why not promise the Istanbul stadium a final next season, when the pandemic is done?
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UEFA require a 60,000 minimum capacity for the stadium hosting the Champions League final so holding it at VP was a non-starter.
Presumably doesn't apply if only 8000 fans can actually attend? Just have it on one of the pitches in Aston Park
I'm pretty sure UEFA care more about how impressive it looks on TV than whether the ground is physically large enough to hold the fans in attendance.
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I doubt they'd give a shit.
Though if it is held in England I could see it being held at Wembley as everything else seems to be, even despite the advantage that gives London teams. Though I confess I haven't been arsed to check if it clashes with playoff weekend (always much more interesting than the European finals).
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If the final is moved, there’s no way it should be held in the U.K.
That would just be asking for trouble.
Get Edvard to arrange a pitch and play it up there.
Any place that's prone to flooding gets my vote.
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I doubt they'd give a shit.
Though if it is held in England I could see it being held at Wembley as everything else seems to be, even despite the advantage that gives London teams. Though I confess I haven't been arsed to check if it clashes with playoff weekend (always much more interesting than the European finals).
Think it does clash with the Play Offs. On a purely selfish note, I'd love VP to stage it, as it would then surely be in a small number of club grounds that have staged finals of the top and secondary European club competitions, as well as Euro and World Cup games.
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Ah, OK ta. Villa Park most obvious venue if they decide it has to be hosted in the UK then (I don't think Millennium Stadium is open at the moment).
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Ah, OK ta. Villa Park most obvious venue if they decide it has to be hosted in the UK then (I don't think Millennium Stadium is open at the moment).
Don't think they clash every year, but seem to recall listening to one on the way back from Wembley after one of the Play Off finals. Think it was the Fulham one and it was the game where Liverpool's keeper had a howler against Madrid.
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Snobbish Chelsea fans claiming Villa Park is too small to stage it.
Villa Park is bigger than Stamford Bridge... .
Stamford Bridge is also an absolute shithole rammed with wankers.
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UEFA require a 60,000 minimum capacity for the stadium hosting the Champions League final so holding it at VP was a non-starter.
Presumably doesn't apply if only 8000 fans can actually attend? Just have it on one of the pitches in Aston Park
I'm pretty sure UEFA care more about how impressive it looks on TV than whether the ground is physically large enough to hold the fans in attendance.
No other ground is more impressive than Villa Park.
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Snobbish Chelsea fans claiming Villa Park is too small to stage it.
Villa Park is bigger than Stamford Bridge... .
Stamford Bridge is also an absolute shithole rammed with wankers.
well said.
No atmosphere whatsoever.
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Snobbish Chelsea fans claiming Villa Park is too small to stage it.
Villa Park is bigger than Stamford Bridge... .
Stamford Bridge is also an absolute shithole rammed with wankers.
well said.
No atmosphere whatsoever.
I know mate, good god. With that shitty hotel stuck on the stand. Rubbish.
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Snobbish Chelsea fans claiming Villa Park is too small to stage it.
Villa Park is bigger than Stamford Bridge... .
Stamford Bridge is also an absolute shithole rammed with wankers.
Christ, you should have seen it before they redeveloped it.
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As much as I hate Chelsea, I actually thought Stamford Bridge was quite a nice ground.
Much better than Anfield and I find Old Trafford pretty dull.
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Played in a 6 a side tournament at Stamford Bridge 19 years ago. We won, so cant hate the stadium - but it is no VP.
Zola turned up to watch that day, and we had our teams photo taken with him in the dugout. He was a proper bloke.
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When I was 16 played in a 5 a side tournament by Highbury, as we won the tournament we played a Spurs side including Houghton, and a few other young first team players - needless to say they were so good, we only touched the ball at kick off after they scored another goal!
Fantastic experience.
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Not much of a threat if it were to pop up again. Be interesting to see what happens to the unrepentant 3
European Super League: Nine clubs given financial sanctions by Uefa over breakaway - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57031372
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The nine clubs who withdrew have agreed to make a combined 15m euro (£13.4m) goodwill contribution to benefit children's and grassroots football across Europe.
They will also have 5% of Uefa competition revenues withheld for one season, starting in 2023-24, and this money will be redistributed, including in the UK.
However will they cope? I hope they've learned a valuable lesson.
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Agreeing to a punishment is not really a punishment though is it?
It reminds me of The Soprano's where Meadow is in schtuck with her parents and basically suggests a punishment that doesn't really bother her and Tony and Carmela buy it. She walks away from them smirking....
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5% fine what a joke...
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I'm more bothered about there being regulation and updated rules to prevent it happening in future.
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Agreeing to a punishment is not really a punishment though is it?
It reminds me of The Soprano's where Meadow is in schtuck with her parents and basically suggests a punishment that doesn't really bother her and Tony and Carmela buy it. She walks away from them smirking....
I’ve watched a million box sets the TV series since that was on
And it’s still the GOAT
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Agreeing to a punishment is not really a punishment though is it?
It reminds me of The Soprano's where Meadow is in schtuck with her parents and basically suggests a punishment that doesn't really bother her and Tony and Carmela buy it. She walks away from them smirking....
I’ve watched a million box sets the TV series since that was on
And it’s still the GOAT
IFHA
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Agreeing to a punishment is not really a punishment though is it?
It reminds me of The Soprano's where Meadow is in schtuck with her parents and basically suggests a punishment that doesn't really bother her and Tony and Carmela buy it. She walks away from them smirking....
I’ve watched a million box sets the TV series since that was on
And it’s still the GOAT
IFHA
International Federation of horseracing authorities !
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Agreeing to a punishment is not really a punishment though is it?
It reminds me of The Soprano's where Meadow is in schtuck with her parents and basically suggests a punishment that doesn't really bother her and Tony and Carmela buy it. She walks away from them smirking....
I’ve watched a million box sets the TV series since that was on
And it’s still the GOAT
IFHA
International Federation of horseracing authorities !
I Fucking Hate Abbreviations!
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Agreeing to a punishment is not really a punishment though is it?
It reminds me of The Soprano's where Meadow is in schtuck with her parents and basically suggests a punishment that doesn't really bother her and Tony and Carmela buy it. She walks away from them smirking....
I’ve watched a million box sets the TV series since that was on
And it’s still the GOAT
IFHA
International Federation of horseracing authorities !
I Fucking Hate Abbreviations!
ATTTTAC
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I'm more bothered about there being regulation and updated rules to prevent it happening in future.
Yes those will become entry requirements.
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European Super League: Juventus told they face Serie A expulsion - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57061939
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That would be great. Would definitely have to go for a pint to celebrate if that happens, probably the scummiest team in the world.
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That would be great. Would definitely have to go for a pint to celebrate if that happens, probably the scummiest team in the world.
That last comment is a bold claim in a universe where Man United, Liverpool, Blose, Leeds, Millwall and Real Madrid exist.
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They're the only team I can think of that literally won the league by paying referees and are outraged that they weren't allowed to keep the titles.
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The English clubs should all start on minus 10 points next season. Forget the monetary fine as they have owners rich enough to keep the £1.4mill as pocket change. That said, the FA don't have the bollocks to upset the same teams who tried to destroy the Premier League.
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They're the only team I can think of that literally won the league by paying referees and are outraged that they weren't allowed to keep the titles.
You've got the old fascist angle in there too with Agnelli's nose up Mussolini's arse and vive versa.
And that bent fucker Platini played for them, good as he was.
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They're the only team I can think of that literally won the league by paying referees and are outraged that they weren't allowed to keep the titles.
I was in Rome the season they got caught and got tickets to watch Lazio v Juve at the Stadio Olympico. Before the game Juve had won 14 out of 15 league games, were running away with the title, and Lazio were scrabbling around the relegation spots.
The game finished 1-1 with Juve gifting Lazio a goal and generally playing very, very crap. At the time I just thought Juve had had an off day - turns out they were cheating arseholes!
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Yeah, it's a competitive category but absolutely fuck Juve to hell.
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For the all-England Champions League final coming up, William Hill are offering odds on the number of English players starting the game. It's evens for 2, 5/8 on for 3, 3/1 for 4, 7/1 for 5, 100/1 for 6, 250/1 for 7, 750/1 for 8, and so on.
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Now the season is over, it's time for the PL to be bold and punish the ESL 6. A fine or 6 point deduction are meaningless punishments and would only serve to be slaps on the wrist. An esl club would still come through to win the PL next season with ease.
With M City winning the league in 2021 by 12 points and 20 points ahead of Leicester (the top placed non-esl team) I would suggest a points deduction of 21 points (the extra one to negate goal difference based on this season's totals).
This would make it harder for an esl team to win the league next season and for them all to qualify for European competition in its current format. For a change they would have to "earn" the right to these prizes. It would make the PL a more level playing field and punish the arrogance of the so-called elite. It would also require greater scrutiny of referees and var to ensure they don't continue to favour the esl 6.
In my view anything less than a 21 point deduction (for each of the 6 esl teams) would be evidence of the PL being weak and continuing to pander to these teams.
It's time for the other 14 PL teams to be treated equally and not to be considered as also-rans before a ball has even been kicked.
As regards European competition that is up to the authorities running those competitions. If it was up to me I would ban the esl pretenders. Failing that they should be made to play each other in the earlier rounds/group stages to ensure as many of them are eliminated at the earliest possible points. This would allow more non-esl teams to progress further and hopefully earn the right to win those competitions. There should also be no access for eliminated chumpions league teams to the Europa League. Btw what is this new europa conference league about if not to ensure another of the esl 6 (spuds this season) have their egos fed by another mickey mouse European tournament?
It will be interesting to see whether the whole episode regarding the esl is brushed under the carpet or proper punishments are given to the group of arrogant self-entitled clubs that attempted to ruin football as a competitive sport.
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I'm on board with all of that.
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Not happening
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UEFA considering a 1 year ban from Chumps League for the ESL lot.
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UEFA considering a 1 year ban from Chumps League for the ESL lot.
They wont as it will force the 6 to find alternative Revenue Streams and FIFA want to keep them in the tent.
I would love it if they did.
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UEFA considering a 1 year ban from Chumps League for the ESL lot.
Is there a link to a new story on this?
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I can't see anything since 12th May. It would be particularly ridiculous if the clubs that have yet to withdraw end up with no punishment whatsoever, effectively being rewarded for not backing down.
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UEFA considering a 1 year ban from Chumps League for the ESL lot.
Well if they give out the spots to the teams not banned, we would miss out on Champs league by 1 place. We would probably get UEFA spot though.
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UEFA considering a 1 year ban from Chumps League for the ESL lot.
Is there a link to a new story on this?
ESPN Monty
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I don't think anyone is talking about banning the English teams. Only the ones who have yet to withdraw from the European Super League and agree a fine with UEFA.... Juventus, Barcelona and Real Madrid.
If they're banned, the Champions League beneficiaries would be Napoli, Real Sociedad and Real Betis.
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Only thing I see there is from nearly 2 weeks ago. Still, I guess they need to take their time and maybe wait for the season to end.
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Surely they need to get the fuck on with it, how are teams supposed to plan their summer if they don't know whether they're in Europe or not?
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I think they'll announce their intentions only after the final. The indignation does appear to have subdued, therefore I think there will only be threats of future punishments if clubs don't behave themselves. We'll all be annoyed at the lack of action, the ESL teams will remain tight lipped and the gravy train will continue.
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UEFA considering a 1 year ban from Chumps League for the ESL lot.
Is there a link to a new story on this?
ESPN Monty
God, we can do without another TV Channel with an odd name.
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I think they'll announce their intentions only after the final. The indignation does appear to have subdued, therefore I think there will only be threats of future punishments if clubs don't behave themselves. We'll all be annoyed at the lack of action, the ESL teams will remain tight lipped and the gravy train will continue.
The clubs which have withdrawn have, at least, been fined.
There is no way they can justify punishing the teams that withdrew from the ESL and not punishing those that belligerently insist that they can do what they like.
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I think they'll announce their intentions only after the final. The indignation does appear to have subdued, therefore I think there will only be threats of future punishments if clubs don't behave themselves. We'll all be annoyed at the lack of action, the ESL teams will remain tight lipped and the gravy train will continue.
The clubs which have withdrawn have, at least, been fined.
There is no way they can justify punishing the teams that withdrew from the ESL and not punishing those that belligerently insist that they can do what they like.
Unless a fine is big enough, then it's not a punishment. I don't consider the fine they received to be anywhere significant enough that it could be considered a punishment. I don't like how any of the ESL teams acted throughout, but I don't differentiate the ones that have left or the ones that are clinging on to the idea. The damage was done when the act occurred and any subsequent actions are essentially driven by the fear that they have more to lose and not for the love or respect of the game, the clubs or the fans.
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I don't disagree with the sentiment but, nevertheless, a fine is, at least, a punishment of sorts, even if it's an insufficient one.
It would be completely unfair to fine the clubs who withdrew from the ESL and not take any action whatsoever against those that still consider themselves ESL members.
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Totally agree with that. I just want every one of the teams that entered to get so royally fucked that they feel it for years to come.
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UEFA have begun disciplinary action against Real, Barca and Juventus apparently
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Kick them out. No fucking around.
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The FA have not yet got around to punishing the six clubs yet have they?
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The FA have not yet got around to punishing the six clubs yet have they?
I would imagine the FA will do absolutely FA.
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They won't be punished as they're no longer part of the ESL.
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The naughty 9 should perhaps get banned from Europe for a year and a point deducted for every team in their domestic league's they were prepared to shit on. So the scab six would lose 14 points for Prem League teams + 1 point for each team in the Championship, div1 & div 2. That's about 80 odd point each. This in turn would start an exodus of their best players who would generally be distributed throughout their opponents. This would simultaneously weaken them while making their opponents stronger 😊.
The other 3 should be expelled from European competition until they apologise and the longer it takes them the stronger the penalty levied against them would be.
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The FA have not yet got around to punishing the six clubs yet have they?
What would the FA punish them for?
Their plan was to swap the Champions League for the Super League. They wanted to carry on with the Premier League and FA Cup, ie the FA's competitions.
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Setting up the competition was a breach of Premier League rules.
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Yeah. Serie A have threatened to throw Juve out if they don't withdraw from the ESL before the start of next season.
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The UEFA president came out with the below guff, so pretty safe to assume there will be no punishment for the teams who "pulled out"
"I said at the UEFA Congress two weeks ago that it takes a strong organisation to admit making a mistake especially in these days of trial by social media. These clubs have done just that."
"In accepting their commitments and willingness to repair the disruption they caused, UEFA wants to put this chapter behind it and move forward in a positive spirit."
"These clubs recognised their mistakes quickly and have taken action to demonstrate their contrition and future commitment to European football."
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I know it's frustrating, but if it means Real, Barca and Juve are thrown out of the CL for a year, I will be laughing quite contentedly.
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“FC Barcelona, Juventus FC and Real Madrid CF wish to express their absolute rejection of the insistent coercion that Uefa has been maintaining towards three of the most relevant institutions in the history of football.“
Pricks.
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I hope no Barcelona fan is ever going to come out with any "People's Club" bollocks, ever again.
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“FC Barcelona, Juventus FC and Real Madrid CF wish to express their absolute rejection of the insistent coercion that Uefa has been maintaining towards three of the most relevant institutions in the history of football.“
Pricks.
All clubs are equal, but some clubs are more equal than others.
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“FC Barcelona, Juventus FC and Real Madrid CF wish to express their absolute rejection of the insistent coercion that Uefa has been maintaining towards three of the most relevant institutions in the history of football.“
Pricks.
All clubs are equal, but some clubs are more equal than others.
I reckon we have had a few Mr. Joneses at B6.
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The arrogance of those three is staggering. And the more they do to piss UEFA off the more likely it is they'll get banned from the Champions League, making their financial situation worse.
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Do you remember when UEFA banned English clubs from European competitions for 5 years on the basis that 'they needed to send a strong enough message to everyone else that this hooligan behaviour will not be accepted in any way'?
That's the least I would think should be done to the 9 ESL clubs. The very least. For exactly the same reasons; 'pour encourager les autres'.
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I agree Allan, to do absolutely nothing enforces what all fans think about football's governing body, toothless and no bollocks, pandering the the bigger clubs, reinforcing the bias towards those clubs. Some of the clubs have already been fined a paltry amount but there needs to be a collective punishment which really should include a ban from competition.
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No point in throwing out clubs who've already recommitted, and probably no legal basis either. The fact that Juve, Real and Barca are still clinging onto this competition means that there's something for UEFA to use to throw them out.
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If they try to ban them for any period of time it gives them all the more incentive to crack on with an ESL. Their fans would have more sympathy with it this time as they will understand they've been backed into a corner.
Don't get me wrong I'd love to see the clubs get huge punishments to really shake up the current monopoly of the haves and have nots, but I just can't see it happening.
What I would like to see it the changes to the current CL reversed - more clubs, wildcard entry etc
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Do you remember when UEFA banned English clubs from European competitions for 5 years on the basis that 'they needed to send a strong enough message to everyone else that this hooligan behaviour will not be accepted in any way'?
That's the least I would think should be done to the 9 ESL clubs. The very least. For exactly the same reasons; 'pour encourager les autres'.
As shit as this project was/is, nobody has died as a result of it.
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I agree Allan, to do absolutely nothing enforces what all fans think about football's governing body, toothless and no bollocks, pandering the the bigger clubs, reinforcing the bias towards those clubs. Some of the clubs have already been fined a paltry amount but there needs to be a collective punishment which really should include a ban from competition.
Precisely. Cheers.
@Monty; UEFA have all the legal basis they need to impose massive penalties as they determine, whether that's financial, bans or a combination of both plus anything else they can come up with. And that legal basis is not affected by the subsequent actions of the English 6; that should just affect the sentencing not whether they are guilty or innocent.
I agree with Steve76; if UEFA don't do something huge then they leave themselves revealed as still the puppets of the biggest clubs and everyone else will know nothing has changed. The ESL clubs will have got away with it. And at that point I'd like to think the national football bodies and all their clubs supporters will get together again and demand a real change in the nature of the game not some PR-fed confection that means in reality nothing changes.
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As shit as this project was/is, nobody has died as a result of it.
You're correct but that's not the only measure of damage, is it? In fact most times people don't die directly from shit-house financial crimes (make no mistake, the ESL project is a crime against the rest of the game) but luckily most people can see that stealing the livelihood from others, starving the grassroots of a community, or hoarding wealth to the few so it's not available to the many is eventually deadly.
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As shit as this project was/is, nobody has died as a result of it.
You're correct but that's not the only measure of damage, is it? In fact most times people don't die directly from shit-house financial crimes (make no mistake, the ESL project is a crime against the rest of the game) but luckily most people can see that stealing the livelihood from others, starving the grassroots of a community, or hoarding wealth to the few so it's not available to the many is eventually deadly.
I'm not defending it at all, but the ban came in after Heysel. This is trivial in comparison.
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Absolutely. The longer-term blanket ban on English clubs was proportionate to a horrible event like Heysel. Banning particular clubs for a year for breaking the rules would be different, smaller, and not worth mentioning in the same breath.
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I agree Allan, to do absolutely nothing enforces what all fans think about football's governing body, toothless and no bollocks, pandering the the bigger clubs, reinforcing the bias towards those clubs. Some of the clubs have already been fined a paltry amount but there needs to be a collective punishment which really should include a ban from competition.
Precisely. Cheers.
@Monty; UEFA have all the legal basis they need to impose massive penalties as they determine, whether that's financial, bans or a combination of both plus anything else they can come up with. And that legal basis is not affected by the subsequent actions of the English 6; that should just affect the sentencing not whether they are guilty or innocent.
I agree with Steve76; if UEFA don't do something huge then they leave themselves revealed as still the puppets of the biggest clubs and everyone else will know nothing has changed. The ESL clubs will have got away with it. And at that point I'd like to think the national football bodies and all their clubs supporters will get together again and demand a real change in the nature of the game not some PR-fed confection that means in reality nothing changes.
If you ban these 9 clubs from Europe for 5 years what do you think will happen next?
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I'm not defending it at all, but the ban came in after Heysel. This is trivial in comparison.
I'm sure everyone can see you aren't but it's not trivial, it's far from that. We've been saying it for years and so have most other clubs across Europe if the response to the ESL was anything to go by; the biggest clubs have rigged the game in their favour. The amount of wealth which goes to them has been skewed hugely in the last 15 years and it has unbalanced the ecosystem. It needs to be rebalanced and this is exactly one way in which UEFA can show they really mean it rather than spin it and go back to how it was. Punish them so it hurts, everyone else will applaud and they will suffer and get pushed back into the ruck rather than constantly trying to make themselves separate and unnassailable in their isolation.
The fundamental question is; 'Do UEFA want a franchise game or not?' If they don't they should make it plain that no-one will ever be allowed to try to do this again because football is a competitive sport not a made-for-television entertainment.
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It's not trivial, I agree. In comparison to Heysel, it is trivial.
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I agree Allan, to do absolutely nothing enforces what all fans think about football's governing body, toothless and no bollocks, pandering the the bigger clubs, reinforcing the bias towards those clubs. Some of the clubs have already been fined a paltry amount but there needs to be a collective punishment which really should include a ban from competition.
Precisely. Cheers.
@Monty; UEFA have all the legal basis they need to impose massive penalties as they determine, whether that's financial, bans or a combination of both plus anything else they can come up with. And that legal basis is not affected by the subsequent actions of the English 6; that should just affect the sentencing not whether they are guilty or innocent.
I agree with Steve76; if UEFA don't do something huge then they leave themselves revealed as still the puppets of the biggest clubs and everyone else will know nothing has changed. The ESL clubs will have got away with it. And at that point I'd like to think the national football bodies and all their clubs supporters will get together again and demand a real change in the nature of the game not some PR-fed confection that means in reality nothing changes.
If you ban these 9 clubs from Europe for 5 years what do you think will happen next?
I reckon they're now a small enough group to royally fuck. Had it been the full 12 you may have had a point, but they're on their own now, exposed and weak.
Time to put the boot in.
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I think punishing the 9 differently to the 3 is fair enough. It seems like Barca, Juve and Real were the most convinced of the idea anyway, and now they're so isolated and powerless it's a good opportunity to show them where the power in football lies now.
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I reckon they're now a small enough group to royally fuck. Had it been the full 12 you may have had a point, but they're on their own now, exposed and weak.
Time to put the boot in.
Perfect. Just perfect :)
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I think punishing the 9 differently to the 3 is fair enough. It seems like Barca, Juve and Real were the most convinced of the idea anyway, and now they're so isolated and powerless it's a good opportunity to show them where the power in football lies now.
Exactly. They still believe in their silly little project but our own William McGregor knew that your football club wasn't up to much if you had noone to play, so while there's only 3 of them they're at UEFA's mercy.
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I think punishing the 9 differently to the 3 is fair enough. It seems like Barca, Juve and Real were the most convinced of the idea anyway, and now they're so isolated and powerless it's a good opportunity to show them where the power in football lies now.
Exactly. They still believe in their silly little project but our own William McGregor knew that your football club wasn't up to much if you had noone to play, so while there's only 3 of them they're at UEFA's mercy.
They're like the solitary hooligan still giving it the large 'un, whose mates have all run off home, knowing full well he's about to get a good chinning any second soon.
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At the VERY least, the latest reforms (with the wildcards based on historical performance) need to be canned off.
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So looks like the Premier League are letting the 6 rebels negotiate their own punishment for trying to leave, total fine approx, £20m. Farce.
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£20m between them by the look of it. What a joke.
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Absolutely pathetic.
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More important to tighten up the legislation so that there's no way that they can pull this shit ever again.
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I can hear the laughter in the boardrooms of those clubs from here.
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A f-cking joke! Just over £3m each-a drop in the ocean for those clubs. That is no punishment and just confirms that the sky/scab/sly 6 run the premier league, who are as weak as p-ss.
Will the fans of the super league jokers protest against their meagre punishment? I doubt this thought will have crossed the minds of the self-entitled pr-cks.
We're all in this together like f-ck!
Full stadiums next season should leave the esl 6 in no doubt of their scab status.
F-ck off PL and f-ck off scab 6!
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More important to tighten up the legislation so that there's no way that they can pull this shit ever again.
Apparently the punishment they've agreed to if they do it again is £25m and 30 point deduction.
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More important to tighten up the legislation so that there's no way that they can pull this shit ever again.
Apparently the punishment they've agreed to if they do it again is £25m and 30 point deduction.
A points deduction that on the face of it looks severe but would almost certainly never result in relegation for the teams concerned.
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Not so much a punishment as a tickle under the chin.
A couple of months wages for one of their 'stars'.
An abject surrender.
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Ther have been mercilessly beaten .........
with a birch twig.
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Don't care about the fine too much, but the threat of only having a points deduction if they do it again is bollocks. They'd only be punished for one season and from then on would be allowed to carry on as they like, competing in both the Premier League and whatever the Superleague is called then, giving them a massive advantage over all other Premier League clubs for ever more.
They have to be told that if they break away they are kicked out of the domestic league until such a time as said breakaway fails, and even then they'd only be able to reenter at the bottom of the football pyramid.
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I believe the FA wrote an apology letter to the scab 6 as well#.
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More important to tighten up the legislation so that there's no way that they can pull this shit ever again.
Apparently the punishment they've agreed to if they do it again is £25m and 30 point deduction.
That’s the bigger piece which clearly wasn’t in place before. The fine was never going to be that stiff and it was always a case of trying to mitigate it happening again. I don’t know that 30 points is enough given the top sides wouldn’t be relegated. Might screw Arsenal and Spurs though.
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Don't care about the fine too much, but the threat of only having a points deduction if they do it again is bollocks. They'd only be punished for one season and from then on would be allowed to carry on as they like, competing in both the Premier League and whatever the Superleague is called then, giving them a massive advantage over all other Premier League clubs for ever more.
They have to be told that if they break away they are kicked out of the domestic league until such a time as said breakaway fails, and even then they'd only be able to reenter at the bottom of the football pyramid.
You may know nowt about FFP, but you are bang on here CD.
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😄
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Don't care about the fine too much, but the threat of only having a points deduction if they do it again is bollocks. They'd only be punished for one season and from then on would be allowed to carry on as they like, competing in both the Premier League and whatever the Superleague is called then, giving them a massive advantage over all other Premier League clubs for ever more.
They have to be told that if they break away they are kicked out of the domestic league until such a time as said breakaway fails, and even then they'd only be able to reenter at the bottom of the football pyramid.
It may well be worth their while financially to go straight back to the ESL and re-join tomorrow. If the "binding" commitments they made and financial penalties for leaving the ESL are true and have legal validity.
They've simply been given an inexpensive opportunity to go ahead at any time for 25m each. A bargain. Paying a pitifully small amount to "grass roots" football schemes as goodwill is irrelevant if they can so cheaply renege on it.
If they sincerely don't intend to do it again the penalty faced if they did could have been crippling because it wouldn't matter.
The threat should have included expulsion from the league as CD said.
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The biggest consequence for them is that they have all lost their own fans though
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Pathetically weak from the FA. A Joke fine for each club. To hurt these clubs, they should've been deducted 30 points each. Monetary fines don't hurt them at all. How many times now have Man City in particular been fined for a past breaches?
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A one year ban from the Champions League shoud have been the very least they received.
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Mind you, it's more than the clubs who haven't backed down yet have received:
"Following the opening of disciplinary proceedings against FC Barcelona, Juventus FC and Real Madrid CF for a potential violation of UEFA’s legal framework in connection with the so-called ‘Super League’ project, the UEFA Appeals Body has decided to stay the proceedings until further notice."
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Mind you, it's more than the clubs who haven't backed down yet have received:
"Following the opening of disciplinary proceedings against FC Barcelona, Juventus FC and Real Madrid CF for a potential violation of UEFA’s legal framework in connection with the so-called ‘Super League’ project, the UEFA Appeals Body has decided to stay the proceedings until further notice."
Spineless lizards.
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From what I've read UEFA are awaiting a European Court ruling regarding the Spanish court action taken by the Three Scabs to protect themselves. It appears the Spanish ruling has validity in Switzerland where UEFA are based. However, UEFA I think are awaiting a decision on whether they can legally go ahead with punishment against the 3 and have the authority to ignore the Spanish court's ruling. They may not be out of the woods yet. But they are in debt. Barca have officially admitted being 1b Euros in debt.
I can't find the article I read to refresh my memory, but if I do I'll post it.
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The PL would never do anything as drastic as kicking them out/big points deductions etc, as much as I’d love them to. The broadcasters will all renegotiate the tv deals sighting an inferior quality product, and the PL stands to lose too much money from that.
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Yep, as with the Investment Banker Terrorists, they cannot be punished -they're too big to fail.
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Interesting interview here with the leader of Spirit of Shankly about the campaign to stop the super league
http://www.stevetibbett.com/podcast.html
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Interesting interview here with the leader of Spirit of Shankly about the campaign to stop the super league
http://www.stevetibbett.com/podcast.html
Thanks for linking, very interesting. SoS were really good on this issue.
The main takeaway, I think, is that if we as fans want to stop owners and authorities screwing us over (even more than they already have done) then we have to stand together, regardless of club allegiance.
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Just seen on SSN that the scum 6 clubs who only thought for themselves and tried to breakaway and fuck everyone else
Are allowed to rejoin European club association.
Well thats OK then.
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The number of teams in the Champions League group stage will rise from 32 to 36 from 2024-25 under changes approved by Uefa.
Under the new format, each team will play eight games over 10 match weeks.
But a plan to give two Champions League places to individual clubs solely on the basis of their past European performance has been abandoned.
Instead, two of the four extra places will be awarded on the performance of a country's clubs in Europe over the previous season
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Does that mean a 5th place Premier League finish would get you into the Champions League most seasons?
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Yes on basis currently it will do if England teams continue to dominate Champions league 5th place would provide real incentive to aim for I imagine that's the aim for us moving forward.
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The format itself is going to be one big table so in addition to changes to qualification, the Champions League group stages will instead be a single league table of all 36 teams, with the top eight teams qualifying and ninth to twenty fourth entering a play off, which will be proceeded by knockouts.
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Yeah, it's a bit weird to say the least. One single table, obviously there's not enough time for them to all play each other so I guess there are seeded and unseeded teams and within that there will be 10 random fixtures each. I think they're applying the same model to the Europa League and Conference. On the plus side for Villa, this might make it easier to qualify for Europe through the league.
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Yeah, it's a bit weird to say the least. One single table, obviously there's not enough time for them to all play each other so I guess there are seeded and unseeded teams and within that there will be 10 random fixtures each. I think they're applying the same model to the Europa League and Conference. On the plus side for Villa, this might make it easier to qualify for Europe through the league.
The Swiss System is quite common in chess, much less so in football. Basically it goes like this:
- You draw all the teams out in random order, no seeding
- 1st plays 2nd, 3rd plays 4th, 5th plays 6th, and so on.*
- After all the games have been played, create a league table
- Go to step 2 (until you've completed the number of fixtures you want to)
* In this case, if 5th had already played 6th, then you'd do it as-close-as-you-can without replaying the fixtures, so maybe 5th v 7th, 6th v 8th.
For this, it should absolutely be done as one big table. You're trying to play fixtures according to the team's ability, so it makes no sense to artificially divide them in to two groups.
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Speaking as someone who's run multiple table football competitions to the format - UEFA are making a pig's ear of it so far. Without going in to the gory - and very dull - details of it, they've either made or are highly likely to make rookie errors that will likely make it easier to 'game' the system for mid-ranking sides -- too many rounds of fixtures for the number of teams competing, 3pts for a win [should be 2pts], using goal difference or goals scored to sort the league table [should be disregarded]
I'd be surprised if it doesn't come under a lot of criticism, first for being hellishly complicated, second for it producing 'odd' positions, and then for it being too easy to game the system.
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All they're trying to do is increase the TV revenue, which means more games and more games between the established Champions League clubs. Using a league format introduces the first requirement and is more likely to result in the established clubs getting through, delivering on the second one.
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They gradually encroaching on the Domestic game and have an eye on the prize of the Premier League Revenue. Stream.
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Hardly a 'Champions' League is it? Talk about stretching the point.....
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Speaking as someone who's run multiple table football competitions to the format - UEFA are making a pig's ear of it so far. Without going in to the gory - and very dull - details of it, they've either made or are highly likely to make rookie errors that will likely make it easier to 'game' the system for mid-ranking sides -- too many rounds of fixtures for the number of teams competing, 3pts for a win [should be 2pts], using goal difference or goals scored to sort the league table [should be disregarded]
I'd be surprised if it doesn't come under a lot of criticism, first for being hellishly complicated, second for it producing 'odd' positions, and then for it being too easy to game the system.
Sounds like a right load of old bollocks. Win a game and get punished with more difficult fixtures? Would it not also be the case that you wouldn't know who or where you were playing until a week before the match? That will be an absolute nightmare for fans. Unsurprisingly, they don't seem to have been consulted in any way.
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They gradually encroaching on the Domestic game and have an eye on the prize of the Premier League Revenue. Stream.
Yup, that's the plan.
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Speaking as someone who's run multiple table football competitions to the format - UEFA are making a pig's ear of it so far. Without going in to the gory - and very dull - details of it, they've either made or are highly likely to make rookie errors that will likely make it easier to 'game' the system for mid-ranking sides -- too many rounds of fixtures for the number of teams competing, 3pts for a win [should be 2pts], using goal difference or goals scored to sort the league table [should be disregarded]
I'd be surprised if it doesn't come under a lot of criticism, first for being hellishly complicated, second for it producing 'odd' positions, and then for it being too easy to game the system.
Not boring at all! very interesting write up there. And good insights. I and many enjoy the finer details and in-depth stuff. Thanks. :)
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Speaking as someone who's run multiple table football competitions to the format - UEFA are making a pig's ear of it so far. Without going in to the gory - and very dull - details of it, they've either made or are highly likely to make rookie errors that will likely make it easier to 'game' the system for mid-ranking sides -- too many rounds of fixtures for the number of teams competing, 3pts for a win [should be 2pts], using goal difference or goals scored to sort the league table [should be disregarded]
I'd be surprised if it doesn't come under a lot of criticism, first for being hellishly complicated, second for it producing 'odd' positions, and then for it being too easy to game the system.
Sounds like a right load of old bollocks. Win a game and get punished with more difficult fixtures? Would it not also be the case that you wouldn't know who or where you were playing until a week before the match? That will be an absolute nightmare for fans. Unsurprisingly, they don't seem to have been consulted in any way.
I'd be less bothered about the 'harder fixtures' thing, in as much as it's no different to how you play "harder" fixtures in a cup competition as you progress through the rounds. That's why it's so critical to have the same number of rounds as a straight knockout would have, 2pts for a win, no goal difference - to keep it as close to an FA Cup type competition as possible for the sides that win their fixtures. They're unlikely to do that, though, so rather than having what's essentially a knockout cup with ranking games for all the losers, you instead end up with a bastardised league system that's inherently unfair to certain sides. As I'd mentioned, it's that unfairness that you can 'game' as a competitor because you can make sure things end up being weighted in your favour.
Yeah, you only *know* your fixture when every fixture from the previous round has been played. It's fine for chess because everyone's in the same room and can play the next match within minutes. Less so for professional football, again another imo miscalculation of how useful the system is in this context
I'd also assume they'll be planning on spreading the games over 2 days (Tuesday & Wednesday), which makes things worse. Because any games being played on Wednesday, the teams will know the results & have time to react. Imagine this: in the previous round Bayern Munich beat Real Madrid 2-0, Arsenal beat Shaktar Donetsk 1-0. You then know that a 2-0 win gets you Bayern Munich, a 1-0 win or 2-1 win gets you Arsenal, a 1-0 defeat gets you Shaktar and a 2-0 defeat gets you Real Madrid. So those 2 sides have a vested interest in making sure the game ends up with one team or the other winning by a single goal. Again - this is exactly why goal difference needs to be ignored, but you can bet your bottom dollar that UEFA will use it.
I'm proper geeky on this stuff, I know, but it's an absolute horror show. I'm a big fan of the Swiss System, but FFS it's so unsuited to association football to begin with, and even then they're opening it up to being incredibly easy to manipulate.
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Speaking as someone who's run multiple table football competitions to the format - UEFA are making a pig's ear of it so far. Without going in to the gory - and very dull - details of it, they've either made or are highly likely to make rookie errors that will likely make it easier to 'game' the system for mid-ranking sides -- too many rounds of fixtures for the number of teams competing, 3pts for a win [should be 2pts], using goal difference or goals scored to sort the league table [should be disregarded]
I'd be surprised if it doesn't come under a lot of criticism, first for being hellishly complicated, second for it producing 'odd' positions, and then for it being too easy to game the system.
Sounds like a right load of old bollocks. Win a game and get punished with more difficult fixtures? Would it not also be the case that you wouldn't know who or where you were playing until a week before the match? That will be an absolute nightmare for fans. Unsurprisingly, they don't seem to have been consulted in any way.
The only fans that matter are the ones paying their BT Sport subscription.
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I suppose we will be wanting English teams to do well to assist our champions league placings push.
Maybe we won't begrudge Jack a Champions league win next season if it gives us Champions league extra place due to success of England clubs
Scenario JG Win the league this season , champions league next season with Man City then he can come back home to play Champions league with us! No excuses not to!
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I suppose we will be wanting English teams to do well to assist our champions league placings push.
Maybe we won't begrudge Jack a Champions league win next season if it gives us Champions league extra place due to success of England clubs
Scenario JG Win the league this season , champions league next season with Man City then he can come back home to play Champions league with us! No excuses not to!
Indeed, the sale of Jack and everything that has followed has contributed to Villa's current situation with the manager and squad. In some ways, we can thank Grealish for leaving as much as we can for staying, given what has happened. I simply wanted to remind everyone that English clubs' performance will result in 5th place as a Champions League spot for clubs starting in season 24/25.
Villa, I believe, will make every effort to achieve that or a higher position in 2024/2025.
This season, there's a chance for top four, and it's all very exciting!
Champions League football within the next few years. It's our destiny and maybe we'll even see the return of Grealish!
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No.
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I suppose we will be wanting English teams to do well to assist our champions league placings push.
Maybe we won't begrudge Jack a Champions league win next season if it gives us Champions league extra place due to success of England clubs
Scenario JG Win the league this season , champions league next season with Man City then he can come back home to play Champions league with us! No excuses not to!
Indeed, the sale of Jack and everything that has followed has contributed to Villa's current situation with the manager and squad. In some ways, we can thank Grealish for leaving as much as we can for staying, given what has happened. I simply wanted to remind everyone that English clubs' performance will result in 5th place as a Champions League spot for clubs starting in season 24/25.
Villa, I believe, will make every effort to achieve that or a higher position in 2024/2025.
This season, there's a chance for top four, and it's all very exciting!
Champions League football within the next few years. It's our destiny and maybe we'll even see the return of Grealish!
Suspect you're quite unique in that view, Footy mate! Reword it and add a "despite Grealish" in and you might have a few more folk agreeing ;)
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Fuck no. Not more Jack coming back bollocks
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Ah, always good to see an old thread resurrected FOR NO REASON.
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OK then let's focus on the 5th place finish in 2024/2025
That's a target. (And who would have thought Matt Targett qualified champions league football in 2023!)
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Perfectly good thread for season predictions here.
https://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=64029.45
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Perfectly good thread for season predictions here.
https://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=64029.45
Sure it is.
This is specific champions league thread however. And also can discuss the future and 24/25 season for those that wish to engage on such.